The Herle Burly was created by Air Quotes Media with support from our presenting sponsor TELUS, as well as CN Rail, Bruce Power, and AltaGas.

Greetings, you curiouser and curiouser Herle Burly-ites! It occurs to us here at Air Quotes Media, that when the Prime Minister goes to China ... makes an historic trade deal ... and then invokes the term “New World Order” in his statement to the press – Carney said it slowly, dramatically, deliberately – you gather the most expert people you can think of and record a podcast about it, immediately.

David Mulroney and Jennifer Welsh are with me today.

David was Canada’s ambassador to the People’s Republic of China from 2009 to 2012. Prior to that he headed Canada’s office in Taiwan and served as our Senior Official for Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation. His 2016 book about our relationship with China, Middle Power, Middle Kingdom, was awarded with J.W, Dafoe Prize.

Jennifer is the Canada 150 Research Chair in Global Governance and Security at McGill University and the Director of the Max Bell School of Public Policy. She’s a Rhodes Scholar, earning a Master and Doctorate in International Relations at Oxford, and co-founded the Oxford Institute for Ethics, Law and Armed Conflict.

So today, I want to talk about what Trump, and the U.S. is saying, and doing, and the shifting world order. What might it look like? What are the implications for Canada? Can we influence it in any meaningful way? And the actions Prime Minister Carney has taken to date, the deal with China, and also his work in Europe and the Mid-East.

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