Bookie from the Ohtani Baseball Scandal | The Hidden Third with Mariana van Zeller

Summary

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The Hidden Third with Mariana van Zeller

Episode: Bookie from the Ohtani Baseball Scandal

Date: October 29, 2025
Guest: Matt (Bookmaker at the center of the Shohei Ohtani interpreter gambling scandal)

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Overview

In this gripping episode, Mariana van Zeller sits down with Matt, the notorious bookmaker whose illegal gambling operation became central to the Shohei Ohtani baseball betting scandal. With just days before starting his prison sentence, Matt reflects candidly on his life of hustle—from entrepreneurial childhood schemes to running a billion-dollar bookie empire, his descent into gambling addiction, and his pivotal involvement with Ohtani’s interpreter, Ippei Mizuhara. Together, they pull back the curtain on the mechanics and culture of illegal sports betting, the reality of addiction, and the complicated intersections of crime, accountability, and personal legacy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Matt’s Background: The Making of a Bookie

• Childhood in Cypress, California ([06:38])
  • Happy early years, entrepreneurial from youth; sold newspapers, ran poker games, hustled various schemes.
  • Family’s descent into dysfunction after father’s alcoholism and parents’ divorce.
  • Early experience managing adversity and “hustling to survive.”
• Early Hustles ([09:51])
  • Sold newspapers door-to-door using sales tactics.
  • Ran poker and sports betting rings as a teenager, earning $30,000–$40,000 annually by age 16.
  • “You wouldn’t outwork me… If I got you to open the door, I would make you feel bad at worst case if you weren’t buying the paper from me.” – Matt [10:08]
• Escalating Illegal Activities ([14:30])
  • Sold marijuana, used credit card scams at gas stations, hustled cigarettes.
  • Mother was mostly unaware or helpless against the tide of his activities.

2. Building a (Legal and Illegal) Business Empire

• Commodities Broker Career ([24:39], [28:36])
  • Landed high-pressure job as a commodities trader at age 18; quickly rose to number one nationally.
  • “At 21, I made $700,000 a year. I actually purchased the home that my parents lost and moved into it.” – Matt [30:32]
  • Internal conflict: legitimate brokers still sold risky products, which Matt later described as immoral.
• The Pivot to Full-Time Bookmaking ([33:12], [38:37])
  • Took sports bets from office colleagues, eventually made more as a bookmaker than as a broker.
  • By age 30, left brokering to run a full-time, large-scale, illegal sports betting ring.
  • Set up his own site (BreaktheBookie.net) in Costa Rica as the internet transformed the industry.

3. Bookie Operations: Scale, Structure, and Ethics

• Operational Mechanics ([41:28], [60:16])
  • Ran multiple gambling platforms, offered live dealer games, and built unique customer experiences.
  • Managed $1 billion+ in wagers in 2023 with about 1,200 clients, many celebrities and high-rollers.
  • "My operation took over a billion dollars in wagers." – Matt [03:50]
• Agents and Money Laundering ([46:40], [63:28])
  • Over 48 agents, ~200 subagents nationwide; distributed and collected money via Venmo, crypto, cash, and complex laundering tactics.
  • Had “beards” (trusted money holders), runners, and even stashed millions in physical locations (e.g., tires in a warehouse).
• Dealing with Non-Payers and Violence ([48:00], [49:55])
  • Early days: Matt acted as his own “enforcer” with a Samoan friend in tow, but claimed never to resort to actual violence.
  • Walked away from $44 million in unpaid debts when arrested to avoid further criminal charges.

4. The Shohei Ohtani Interpreter Scandal

• The Meeting and Account Escalation ([66:25], [67:30])
  • Met Ippei Mizuhara, Ohtani's interpreter, at an Angels/Padres poker game through athlete connections.
  • Ippei’s betting limits rapidly grew from $8,000 to $3 million in credit due to prompt payments (wires).
• The Shocking Wire ([00:43], [69:51])
  • “[My friend] says, from Shohei Ohtani. I said, holy shit. I mean, that was a wow moment for me.” – Matt [00:56], [70:09]
  • Matt assumed Ohtani himself was gambling when a $500,000 wire arrived directly in Shohei’s name.
• Who Was Really Gambling? ([78:36])
  • Matt concludes: “You think it was Ippei who had the gambling problem?”
    "I definitely think that. I do. I don't think Shohei ever gambled." – Matt [78:36]
  • No evidence Ohtani placed bets himself; believed Ohtani might have been unwittingly (or semi-wittingly) used for funds.
• Blowing the Whistle and Cooperation ([74:03], [107:48])
  • After ESPN confronted Matt, he voluntarily alerted federal authorities to the wire transfers from Ohtani’s account.
  • Received “cooperation credit” and a reduced sentence for coming forward.

5. Addiction and the Toll of the Hustle

• Personal Addiction ([04:02], [59:41])
  • Matt admits to a lifelong gambling addiction, hiding its impact behind wealth and “success”.
  • “I always defended it and made excuses… I was blowing millions of dollars and spending millions of dollars gambling…” – Matt [04:02]
• Loss and Consequence ([89:36], [110:21])
  • Lost $13 million in a single year at a casino; described epic highs and devastating lows.
  • “[Gambling] is a hidden addiction… It's actually worse. It's even higher, I think, when you lose.” – Matt [84:53]
• Victims of the Business ([110:21])
  • Admits clientele sometimes lost more than they could afford, but rationalizes clients would have gambled elsewhere.
  • “Do I feel like I manipulated and took advantage of people? Of course I did… I made money off of people losing gambling. No different than a casino.” – Matt [110:30]

6. Raid, Arrest, and Legal Fallout

• The Raid ([101:11])
  • FBI raid was a surprise, triggered by a casino (Resorts World) money laundering investigation—not the Ohtani scandal.
  • "I was putting my son in my wife's car and I heard FBI, freeze. I had no clue. Zero." – Matt [101:11]
• Cooperation and Sentencing ([105:19], [111:34])
  • Pleaded guilty, paid $1.7 million in restitution, received a year-and-a-day prison sentence (eligible for early release).

7. Reflections, Regrets, and Reinvention

• Dark Side and Morality ([34:13], [36:25])
  • Wrestling with the morality of both legal and illegal occupations: “One was illegal. That's why it didn't feel good. And the other one was legal but didn't feel good.”
• Accountability and Redemption ([111:34], [113:00])
  • Now focused on public speaking, gambling education, and using his story as a cautionary tale.
  • “Sometimes it's not the mistake you make, it's what you do after that matters the most.” – Matt [115:12]
• Family and Impact ([02:39], [114:36])
  • Expresses deepest fears over impact on wife and children, hopes own accountability will set an example.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On making impossible sums at a young age:
  "I was making probably more money than [my mother] was at…Like 30, 40,000 a year at 16." – Matt [13:07]
• On the rush of bookmaking scale:
  “My operation took over a billion dollars in wagers.” – Matt [03:50]
• On seeing the Shohei Ohtani wire:
  “He says, from Shohei Ohtani. I said, holy shit. I mean, that was a wow moment for me.” – Matt [00:56], [70:09]
• On denying being a violent enforcer:
  “I would portray that this could get ugly… But I never actually hurt people or put my hands on people.” – Matt [49:05]
• On gambling addiction's insidiousness:
  “It’s a hidden addiction… You can go home, you could have lost your house, lost everything you own, but still look kind of normal.” – Mariana [83:22]
• On lost money and emotional devastation:
  “There’s been some dark ones where I’m in a sauna, and I’ve just lost $4 million, and my wife is consoling me, and… I want to cry like a little girl.” – Matt [89:40]
• On accountability for his crimes:
  “I'm not going to give up all my people. It's just—I'm not doing it. It's my operation. If anyone should get in trouble, it's me.” – Matt [106:54]
• On his goals now:
  “The main message for me is called recalibrate. I wrote this book. It tells the dark moments of my life. You know, most people glorify their life… I’m not fake. I’m not perfect.” – Matt [112:11]
• On prison as a reset:
  “When I walk into prison, it's to me it's a vacation. It's a vacation to reset… I have to go learn from my adversity.” – Matt [113:49]

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Important Timestamps

• [00:43] – Shohei Ohtani wire arrives; realization and shock.
• [03:50] – Reveals size of his bookmaking operation: $1 billion/year.
• [04:02] – Matt confronts his gambling addiction.
• [13:07] – Teenage earnings and early hustles.
• [30:32] – Returns to buy childhood home; peak legal success.
• [38:37] – Transition to full-time bookmaking & setup in Costa Rica.
• [48:00] – Early enforcement tactics, nonviolent intimidation.
• [70:09] – Shohei Ohtani wire transfer “wow moment.”
• [78:36] – Matt’s theory on who was actually gambling (Ippei, not Shohei).
• [83:22], [84:53] – Discussion of gambling as a hidden, deadly addiction.
• [89:40] – Emotional toll of epic wins and losses, impact on family.
• [101:11] – FBI raid and sudden legal downfall.
• [110:21] – Matt on his own responsibility, harm caused, and fate of gamblers.
• [113:00] – New purpose: public speaking, recalibration, gambling education.

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Tone & Atmosphere

Candid, unflinching, and self-aware. Matt is direct about his faults, charismatic in storytelling, and sometimes brash or boastful, but ultimately reflective and open about pain, regret, and the lure of risk. Mariana provides empathy, challenge, and sharp journalistic guidance to pierce self-justification and push toward honesty about harm, addiction, and the real meaning of accountability.

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Conclusion

This episode moves beyond scandal headlines, offering a nuanced, inside look at the growth, complexity, and consequences of underground gambling in America—while never letting go of the human stakes. Matt’s story is both cautionary and revealing, blending the thrill of the hustle with stark lessons about addiction, moral ambiguity, and the search for redemption. An essential listen for anyone interested in the mechanics of black markets, the psychology of risk, and the cost of living in the shadows.

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Transcript

[Matt]

Okay, so when I was there, you had to have a knife. One of you's gotta take turns carrying it up your rectum.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Wait, it's up your butt.

[Matt]

That's the prison wallet. You never leave home alone.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And you have something protected around it, I'm assuming.

[Matt]

Yeah. Or else you'll be bleeding out your coolo.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

I'm Ariana Van Zeller, and after reporting on black markets for my Emmy winning National Geographic show, Trafficked, I'm launching a podcast. You're getting emotional on me. Intimate conversations with those operating in the shadows. The Hidden Third is out now with new episodes every Wednesday. [e-mail] MarianAenz Zeller Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. 500,000. He's asking you. And. And at this point, you're. Are you wondering, like, how is it possible is this guy making this amount of money as a translator?

[Matt]

The second wire was. Because now you know the first 300 grand. Anyone could have. 300 grand. He made $250,000 a year as an interpreter at the end. So, you know, he could have saved it up or maybe had some family money. But now when you're sending 500,000 again after losing 300. Okay, so then he asked for a million in credit. I give it to him, and then he sends another wire for 500,000. And this is when I get the phone call. And my friend says, are you sitting down? And I said, why? He says, this wire just came in. You got it? I'm okay. Great. He says, from Shohei Ohtani. I said, holy shit. I mean, that was a wow moment for me.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And did you think for a second, is it actually Shohei who's gambling? Or did you.

[Matt]

Well, at that moment, I thought for sure it was Shohei Ohtani.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

I'll pronounce your name well if you pronounce mine.

[Matt]

Mariana.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Very good.

[Matt]

Matthew Mature.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

But it's actually Matt with one T. It is.

[Matt]

My parents knew I was going to be abnormal, so that's why they did that. They knew what they had on their hands. Right when I was born. Some lunatic.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Could be a little bit different.

[Matt]

Exactly. Did we drop him?

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Matt, it's so good to have you here. For people who don't know who you are, you were the bookmaker at the center of a scandal that rocked Major League Baseball. Taking bets for from Shohei Ohtani's interpreter and running a gambling operation that moved millions and millions of dollars. And now you're actually just a few days from reporting to prison. Is that correct?

[Matt]

That's correct. 11 days.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

11 days. So in 11 days, you're going to show up in prison and my wife.

[Matt]

Is going to drive me to the walls and drop me off like a kid at school. It's going to be very interesting. I've never been to prison, obviously, but I've been told that you expect to walk in with clothes you don't expect to walk out with, so wear junk. And as soon as you walk in, you're going to be stripped naked and opening your. Your butt cheeks. Excuse me. And being frisk every which way, and then sit down for like two hours while it takes a while to process you. And it's a very interesting process.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Are you nervous?

[Matt]

I'm a little nervous about that, of course. I mean, I'm a man. I'll handle myself, but I'm more nervous about leaving my wife and kids behind. That's the hard part. That's. I'm still really struggling. In fact, the last few days have been the hardest, you know, because I'm starting to realize it's so real and it's only a few days away. And it's like I'm so connected with my wife and I have such a good relationship with her and my kids that, like, the fact that we're not going to see each other every day and not, you know, have those moments of, like, taking my son trick or treating and Christmas and all those things is going to be really hard.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Is there something, some mental preparation or some therapist that you're seeing, something to get you ready for it?

[Matt]

I was required by the court to see a therapist because I was labeled with mental health issues because the amount I was gambling, which I can't even argue, at first I laughed and I was like, this is ridiculous. But now that I'm out of the storm and I don't gamble anymore, I realize how the numbers and the chaos I was doing that became like, brushing my teeth are so abnormal. I mean, I knew they were abnormal, but I didn't realize I was moving, you know, a billion dollars in a year. You know, as far as my business and the amount of gambling I was doing and flying to Vegas every two weeks with $2 million is really not normal.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

A billion a year?

[Matt]

Is that what you estimate your operation in 2023? My operation took over a billion dollars in wagers. Yeah.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Crazy. And you were. I mean, apart from running this large operation, you were also. You admitted to the fact that you were an addict.

[Matt]

Oh, no question. I have been since I was a young boy. I Just didn't really. You never wanted to own that. It's like the word addict for me always made me feel like lower than or less than. So I didn't really start owning it until this happened. I always defended it and made excuses. And I was like, my wife would be like, you have a gambling problem? I was like, no, babe, I make. All we do is get more money and make nicer things and I buy nicer homes and cars and, you know, we never worried about money. So how could you say that? That was my excuse, but the reality was I was blowing millions of dollars and spending millions of dollars gambling through bookmakers and casinos. And I just looked at it as part of my job. That was kind of my excuse.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And. And going back, you're going to. You were sentenced to a year in prison, right?

[Matt]

Correct.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

12 months. But you're doing less than that.

[Matt]

Luckily, the judge was kind to me. He gave me a year and a day. So for that reason, you can earn good time. If he gave me one year exactly or less, there's no good time.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

I want to go back to the backstory of how this all started, but there was a moment that you actually thought you weren't going to do any time in prison because you thought while the trial was happening, you thought there was a chance that they would just let you go on house arrest. On house arrest, right.

[Matt]

Yeah, basically, because the charges that I have were. It was a total of 18 years, you know, but the maximums of everything are based on, you know, you obviously having all these other former charges or. I've never been, you know, in my life, been arrested. I. I have a clean record. And to be honest with you, when you, if you're rated by the feds and you initially don't fight it, that helps your case a lot because they don't have to spend money to basically, you know, have you plead guilty. So by saying I'm guilty right away and negotiating, basically, I did everything they asked. I paid my restitution in full, was a little under 1.7 million. I obviously answered anything that they needed me to do. As far as I went to mental health therapy, Gambler's Anonymous. I checked in with my pre trial officer. All of our phones and computers were monitored the whole time for the last two years. And they would also come over and do a home check, home visit, they call it. Go through your computers, make sure I'm still not bookmaking or running my operation, stuff like that. So I was very cooperative in that regard. That being said, my attorney did an amazing job of showing the government that I have reformed in a sense of. I don't run a bookmaking operation, but also I started speaking to kids at usc. I started a nonprofit. I worked with them. I've tried to serve the community. I've tried to help people with gambling addiction. We turn in about 15 letters to the judge. People that are going through addiction that I've inspired and helped in their own personal lives and problems, we tried to get back. Yeah, I think so.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Let's take it all the way to the beginning. So you were. You grew up in the. In Orange County.

[Matt]

Yeah, Cypress, California.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And you had a pretty happy childhood, I hear.

[Matt]

I think it was perfect.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah.

[Matt]

My first 12 years of my life was like, I had three brothers and my parents were loving and, you know, I have no excuses for, you know, some people blame their childhood or what. I can't do that.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

But then something happened when you were 12?

[Matt]

Yeah, my parents. My dad was Vietnam vet, running multiple businesses, but he was a functioning alcoholic. So while we would, you know, go to, let's say, wrestling practice or football practice, he would stay home and just drink all day. Forty beers a day, three packs of cigarettes, and he would eat one meal. And he was a cook, actually, so he would make us all, you know, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, but he just wouldn't really eat. He would just drink. And he was such a functioning alcoholic. He was really never drunk. So it was, like, hard to. To say he had a problem. But it's very obvious he had a problem, right?

[Mariana Van Zeller]

How was it obvious if it wasn't?

[Matt]

Well, I mean, because I was. We collect cans and go to CR&R and turn them in, and we. We were the family that would have literally 30 bags of trash, bags of empty cans.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

But did it affect his personality? I mean, would you get home and see him passed out on the couch?

[Matt]

No. That's what's weird. I mean, you would. You would notice that he definitely didn't want to do much. You know, like, for example, we had a river house. We go to the. We had a boat and jet skis and all that, all the toys. Because my parents had money. And we would go to the river house and my dad would. Instead of taking us jet skiing or water skiing, he wouldn't want to sit in the house and just drink all day. And if he had to get up and actually go drive a boat and, you know, of course you could drink a beer while you're driving, but let's be real, he'd rather just sit there and do what he was doing. Yeah. So it was like. It was. He just wasn't doing anything anymore. And then my mom got fed up with that because she would go to all these. My mom was. She still is, of 75, a beautiful woman to the point where it was actually. She was so pretty that all my friends would say, oh, your mom's the milf. And they all thought she was the hottest thing in the world. And it was annoying. But then she would show up at, like, my baseball games or football games, and all the dads would be, like, checking her out or they hit on her and, you know, they thought she was single because my dad was never. Yeah. But she just got tired of it. And she finally, after like, three or four rehabs, she just shut it down and said, it's over. And that's when my life changed drastically. Well, I became a therapist to my mom because my older brothers were. One was graduating high school, the other one was in high school, you know, doing his thing. And my little brother was eight, so it wasn't like he was going to do much. So I was really close with my mom, and she. This is the part I think she handled wrong, but she would have me even interfere on phone calls with my dad because she couldn't get it. You know, he kept calling, and he'd even show up at our house, and she would just wouldn't let him in, and he was drunk or whatnot. And so, like, I kind of became a doctor Phil, you know, at 12.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

At 12, you're not ready at all.

[Matt]

Yeah. I didn't even know what was going on. And, you know, I did, but I didn't. So I would interfere that. And then eventually they got divorced, and then my mom ended up losing the home. And the home that I lived in was kind of like, for me, it was like this place of safety. And all of a sudden, my whole life was changing. And so I think that's when I started really learning to hustle and learning to survive on my own and go out and find ways to not ask my mom for money, because she started working, like, three jobs. She was never home.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And it turns out you were really good at hustling. Right. You started by. One of the things you did that I was reading about is that you started selling magazines door to door or. No. The newspaper.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And while all the other kids would just, like, go door to door and get a quick yes or a quick no and leave, you had a whole spiel, and you were actually really good at selling.

[Matt]

I Would just grind. You wouldn't outwork me if I got you to open the door. I would make you feel bad. At worst case, if you weren't buying the paper for me to the point where I'd say, look, I'm trying to win a trip from my mom, which I was to Hawaii. And I'd say, look, if you take the paper, it's $7. It's like many, many years ago. $7 a month. I say, can you tell me right now that you can't take it for $7 and just take these coupons? Because back then they had a bulk of coupons, right? I say this is $40 in coupons. If you use even half of that, you're going to make money on this transaction, you know, So I would sell them on anything. And then I was this little boy. Actually I was the smallest kid in the school. Yeah, I didn't grow until after high school. So I had to really like use my personality and be charismatic as possible. And I did that in sales anyway. But that was my whole life. I was like overcoming what I deem to be these adversities, you know.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So you went from selling the OC Register and then realizing you're pretty good at that to suddenly you were you just you. Somebody introduced you to poker or how did it move?

[Matt]

My brothers were older than me, so I learned a lot from them. And they were. Had a little hustle to them. Not quite to my extent, but I just kind of sponged what they were doing. And then I realized that all the kids in my neighborhood were coming to my house to like play Sega Genesis or Nintendo and I said, you know, why don't we play poker? And then I developed this poker game and they just started coming over every day after school and it started expanding and growing to the point.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And they would have to pay to play or just betting?

[Matt]

No, we were just betting. I didn't have a rake back then, but I didn't need one because I was so much better than them at playing poker that I just knew I would win money.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Did you practice? Did. How did you become.

[Matt]

No, just numbers were. I was really good with math. I've always been good with numbers. I've always been really, you know, quick witted when it comes to cards or calculating odds or any of those things. So they just didn't quite have the same capacity as I did and I just took advantage of that.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And so you started bringing them over, started betting. You started making a lot of money from their bets, right?

[Matt]

Yeah, from running the poker ring and then taking sports bets as well.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Oh, that started that early?

[Matt]

Oh yeah.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So 12, 13.

[Matt]

No, about 14, 15, 16 is kind of when the poker ring was kind of big. And then I got busted with that because one of the moms found a little IOU cheat sheet, I call it, in a pocket when they're doing laundry. And then I came home to an intervention.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Wait, how much was that kid?

[Matt]

It was $340 that he owed you. Yeah, which this is back in 1990, you know. Yeah, two or one, whatever. It was actually even earlier than that, like 90. And so it's a lot of money for a high school kid. And so that broke the. I had a full intervention with like four moms at my house. I was like, oh no.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And they said what? And your mom's.

[Matt]

My mom was there and she. Yeah, she basically shut the whole thing down.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Did she. Do you think that she absolutely hated the idea or did. Was there a part of that that thought, wow, he's so smart? He's.

[Matt]

I think a little bit of both. She was embarrassed that, you know, on her dime, let's call it on her watch, even though she wasn't there, this was happening. But I think deep down she respected. I was not asking her for money. And to be honest, I was making probably more money than she was at.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

How much money were you making?

[Matt]

Like 30, 40,000 a year at 16? Yeah, because I had so many hustles going. The baseball card collection, I was selling marijuana, I was taking. I had a poker ring, I was taking sports bets. I mean, there wasn't any hustle I wasn't doing.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

What were you doing with that money at 16?

[Matt]

I mean, most of it, you know, I had a. I bought my, my truck by myself, of course. So my, most kids got, at least in my neighborhood, either they got assistants getting a car or their parents bought them a car. I bought my truck and then I put wheels and tires at it. Custom painted. I had tinted windows. I had all the kicks a 16 year old guy would want, you know, anything I really wanted, within reason, I was able to get myself.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Were your brothers jealous or were they trying to.

[Matt]

No, they were hustling too. They were? Yeah. My, my brother Sean, he was four years older than me. He was kind of the one I learned a lot of hustle from. And so he was doing just fine. Yeah.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Wow, that's a lot of money. I mean, I have a 15 year old son, so just the thought of him making 30, $40,000, which now would be about 60 or 70. Right.

[Matt]

Probably more.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Inflation. Or more.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

A year is. Is just crazy. And I think. Yeah. Like a part of me would probably be like, yeah. Proud that he's hustling and.

[Matt]

Right. As long as it's legal.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

As long as it's.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah. And then that's the thing. Like, back then, it wasn't like I was running this huge operation, but at the same time, like being a bookie or a bookmaker, I didn't view myself as that. I just viewed myself as a kid hustling. It wasn't like an actual business yet.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

What were some of the. At that point, some of the hustling was already illegal. Right. Some of the hustle.

[Matt]

Well, the marijuana part was for sure. Yeah.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

But also, weren't you selling.

[Matt]

Yeah. At 16, I worked at a Chevron.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And that was like my hub. Hub for selling marijuana. And then what I started doing, which is really embarrassing to say because I don't want my kids to do this, but like, back then they had gas cards. You remember that? Those days when they had gas cards.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Absolutely.

[Matt]

They don't have those anymore. So a guy would come in, or a woman or whatever, and she would say number 12, and then she would get gas. Or he. And they would leave. Well, they left their card. And so I would be like, all right, my shift ends at ten o' clock at night, whatever. If they don't come back for the card, I would just take it like a total loser. And I would just go around to other gas stations, Chevron's, and I would call my friends and say, hey, you guys want gas? Come up here, I'll fill up your tank for half the price. So they might get, you know, let's call it 50 bucks in gas. They pay 25. I put in my pocket right here. I'm just running up this card. And then I would go buy cigarettes, cartons of cigarettes, because I knew what cigarettes we would sell the most of. Marlboro, Red Box or whatever. I don't smoke. And then I would come into my shift and I would sell my cigarettes at their gas station. So instead of ringing it up, you know, for, let's call it $3 or whatever it was back then, I would just sell the cigarettes and just keep the cash. But it wouldn't get me in trouble because the cigarettes that they had on my shift were still there. It wasn't like I was stealing from them, but obviously was stealing from these cards, which is a crime. But I was hustling and I viewed it as like, funny. Even though it wasn't funny. And I viewed it as like an edge. And I've always chased that short easy window, the low hanging fruit. Even though it's a hustle. And I'm not proud of those moments, but I'm just honest about them.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Did your mom know any of this was happening?

[Matt]

Not until later. Yeah, probably not this one. Probably not until about two years ago when I first started telling people the truth about it. When I was there, you had to have a knife. One of you's gotta take turns carrying it up your rectum.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Wait, it's up your butt.

[Matt]

That's the prison wallet. You never leave home alone and you.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Have something protected around it, I'm assuming.

[Matt]

Yeah. Or else you'll be bleeding out your coolo.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

I'm Arianna Van Zeller, and after reporting on black markets for my Emmy winning National Geographic show, Trafficked, I'm launching a podcast. You're getting emotional on me. Intimate conversations with those operating in the shadows. The Hidden Third is out now with new episodes every Wednesday. [e-mail] mariannavanzeller Followers Follow Us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Matt]

But as far as the. The poker ring, of course she knew the marijuana. I got kicked out of the house for that, so she knew of that. Right, but most of the hustles were, you know, the Orange County Register and all that kind of stuff. She knew of all of that, of course. But as far as all of it, the whole grand scheme of it, she really didn't know a lot of it until she read my book.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Did you go to college?

[Matt]

No, I. I was at 18. I. I got my ex wife pregnant and I had to become a man real fast and grow up. So college was not even in my wheelhouse whatsoever.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

What did you do for work at the time?

[Matt]

At the time I worked. So right when I got kicked out of my house, I moved out and we got an apartment.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And you got kicked out for the marijuana?

[Matt]

Yeah, I came back from a senior trip. You know, back then they had the senior trips for high school and I actually got kicked out of my mom's house. So about three weeks later I moved into my friend's house and his mom, when I got home from the senior trip, had the scale and a pound of weed laid out and I walk in. This is really pride swelling because it's not even my house. And I walk in and she's like, whose is this? And of course it's not my friend, so I have to own that which is really embarrassing. So of course I was asked to leave that house, which was embarrassing because all the moms liked me despite my hustle because, you know, I was nice to them and a good person. I just was making some poor choices. And so then now I had to make a decision. So my girlfriend, who I met at 15, her name was Monica, who I was married to for quite some time, we decided to move into an apartment in Huntington Beach, California. So we had a roommate because we couldn't afford it. So we got a two bedroom and it was like back then it was like $750 a month, I remember, for rent. And even that was a lot to us, you know, because now I have a real job. So I had to go get a job at the John Wayne Airport at 6 to 2. I worked there stocking the gift shops and magazines and candies and stuff. And then from there I would drive straight to Irvine, California and work for Mossy Mill clothing company from 2:30 to 10. So I have these 80 hour weeks and on the weekends I would just go blow all my money gambling through bookies and racetracks because I love gambling at the time. Oh yeah. So, but small, you know, because you know, I had just enough to pay rent and eat and get gas. But yet I used to make more money two, three years ago when I was running a poker ring and taking sports bets and all this stuff. But I had no money so I couldn't like take sports bets. And it wasn't really my thing because I didn't have that, you know, I didn't have the surroundings to build a client base like I did in high school. And so at 18 I'm like, this is miserable. So we, I think we signed a six month lease and then within six months we find out that she's pregnant. So I'm like, okay, here I am 18, I can't even take care of myself. I'm not married. And I've been with this woman for three years. She's an amazing person, but I'm not ready to get married or raise a child. But she's very religious and her family is definitely not going to allow an abortion, which I totally respect, even though that in my mind that was the first instinct. Just because I couldn't even fend for myself. But I'm so glad we didn't because I have this amazing, beautiful girl that is now 30 years old. But the point is we made a decision. I said to her, I said, look, we got to move back in with my mom and we have to. I got to get a real job. I mean a real job, not these little petty minimum wage jobs. So my mom lost our house and she moved to Dana Point, California, in a mobile home park. Which is really pride swallowing because I viewed a mobile home park as white trash. And anyone who has a mobile home, that's not what I mean, but it's just how I viewed it. So I had to move into a mobile home park and my little brother was in one room, my mom was in the other. And so Monica and I slept on the couch. And here we are. I'm 18, she's having, she's pregnant. I don't have a job. So what do I do? I go to the local areas in Dana Point. It's kind of a affluent area in Orange county, and there's a restaurant opening. So I walk into this restaurant and the GM sits me down and do an interview. He says, okay, I'll give you an opportunity, but I can't hire you as a waiter because you have no experience. I'm like, well, what am I going to do? He says, you could be a busboy and work your way up. I'm like a busboy, okay, that's not what I came here for, but at least I have an opportunity to move up. So I take the job and then about three months go by and I'm out making or I'm outperforming the waiters by getting more tips than them. Because even though I'm not as a bus boy, as a busboy, because when I'd go to the tables, I would be the one who would direct traffic and conversation even though I wasn't bringing them their food. You know, I would make up for any little things I could find. Because what I've always tried to do, my family raised me to just be number one at whatever you do, it doesn't matter if you're, you know, sweeping the floors. My dad was very militant. You know, there wasn't a speck of the floors. We had to wash the floors. He'd come over and, you know, we'd have to do it again or whatnot. So I was raised properly in that regard. So when I was a busboy, I mean, I cleaned your table, I came over, I refilled your water, I made sure your chips and salsa were full. But more importantly, I would have conversation with everybody and just try to use my personality. And I started building relationships to the point where the customers would come in and ask to sit in my section. But I didn't have A section because a busboy kind of roams. So like. Well, he's not even a waiter. And they were literally asking for me, which was really flattering. So in this process I built a relationship with this couple and they were Indian and. But they spoke. Well, he spoke with a very strong British accent and he had a beautiful watch and she was very attractive and it just, you could feel the sense of these, these people have their shit together. So I ended up having good conversation. And about the third or fourth time they come in, his wife, she says to me, would you like a job opportunity? And I said, I would love one. I said. She goes, you don't even know what it is. I said, I don't care. I don't want to serve chips and salsa. So she said, why don't you come down for an interview? So I get my little beat up car and I drive because I end up selling my truck because I lost, you know, I was lost to bookies and I was broke. So we have this little hoopty car, we drive to Irvine, California and I had to go get a little tie at Marshalls because I didn't even have that. And I walk into this company, or I should say, I pull up and there's like Mercedes and Ferraris out front. And I'm just like. It just, it had this corporate feel. It's a beautiful building, right? Glass everywhere. And I walk through and as I walk through there's this glass of the floor of the company of what they're doing, and I don't know what they're doing. It's just young guys in thais that are just screaming, yelling, have headsets on. Just the feel of this. I mean, I literally got goosebumps just walking in there. So I go to this interview and he just belittles me for an hour and a half. The same guy who was so kind, who I thought I was going to meet to just have this great interview. His name was Mickey. He says to me, he's looking at my little cheap resume that, you know, you probably got on a little typewriter. And he says to me, let's see, you have a zero college experience. Okay, that's not good. You told me that you knocked up your girlfriend. Okay, you have zero experience in sales. Really? Okay, why should I hire you? And what, what's, why have you made all these poor choices already in your life? And he just hammered me, right? And I really didn't have many answers, but I was kind and I would just say, look, I'm young and I'M figuring my life out. So after the interview, I go home and I'm like, there's no way I got that job. They call me back and say, come back for another interview about a week later. So I drive down there and I'm like, oh, this is weird. I get in the interview, and about 20 minutes into it, he's just. Same thing. And I finally. I just stood up and I said, mickey, I need to tell you something. There's nobody here that's going to work harder than me. If you want to hire somebody who's from Harvard, go for it. They have a degree, they have all this education. But you just told me that this is a sales position. And last I checked, sales is about grind, determination and saying the right things, the right fluctuation and understanding the customer. These are things that I've already learned in life. I was the number one Orange county, you know? So I started defending myself.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Tell him the newspaper story again.

[Matt]

Yeah. And he says. He says, you know what? I'm gonna give you an opportunity. This is what I was looking for, a little dog in you. I said, okay. So he hires me. I had no idea what the job was. I didn't even care. So I'm running his mailroom. And the mailroom operation was twelve hundred dollars a month, sixty hours a week, which is a lot of hours for twelve hundred dollars. But it was a big increase for me. Twelve hundred bucks, you know? So I drive down to this company, and I didn't realize that I was his personal assistant. So not only am I running the mail operation, because back then there was no Internet, right? So let me tell you what it was. It was a commodity brokerage firm. So Wolf of Wall street was exactly what this was, but legal. So here I am. I'm the first contact because there's no Internet to the company. So when someone calls, I would do like, a little like, simple dialect. And then if they wanted to talk to a broker, I would kind of set it up and then send it to a broker, but we had headsets. And then when I would send it to the broker, instead of I'm supposed to hang up, I didn't stay on the call. I'd sponge it, and I would learn. And then, of course, if there's no other phone calls, I'd stay on the entire. I would take notes and I would learn. And so about six months go by, and now I've been taking the Series 3 exam. I took a photocopy of it, and I've been studying it on the Weekends. Because I just wanted this so bad. This is my first chance in life. I had real success, and that's all I wanted. So I'm studying this book, and I've never been to college, but it's the seventh hardest test in the nation. And I study this thing and I have these flashcards, and my ex wife is literally about to pop. And I'm so motivated, I'm just hungry, right? So I go up to Mickey and I hand him these flashcards and I say, I want to take the Series 3 exam. And he says, you know, we don't do that until you're an assistant broker. And once you're an assistant broker, you're working hard. I'm really impressed. I said, no, no, I don't think you understand. I can pass. He says, when you're an assistant, I'll let you take it. And I said, how about this? If I don't pass the exam, I'll quit. Or you can fire me. He's like, you're going to risk everything that you've just built? I said, absolutely. So he grabs the flashcards and he reads me a few, and he's like, okay. And I answered them, of course. He says, all right, I'll give you a chance, kid. So I go take the exam. I pass, barely. I got a 72 and 83. You have to have a 70 on both parts. And the rules and regulations wasn't my thing, but I passed. And I literally am 18 years old. I have a baby coming any day. And I'm just driving back to this company, and it's like this first taste of real success for me. And I just knew that was the start of my life.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And you became a broker right there.

[Matt]

No. So I came back, and he immediately let me hire someone. Well, he hired someone. I got to train them. Which only lasted maybe a month as.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

An assistant to the main guy.

[Matt]

Yeah. And then I went and became. Here's where I got another break. All the hard work I put in. He put me for the top broker. So it wasn't just any broker. Literally the top guy. So now I have this sponge of what I've already learned. And now I'm working for the best guy. So I work for him. And we're number one every single month, which he kind of already was, but we never missed a beat. And a year goes by, and here comes my second break. We're losing a lot of business to. Because we were charging $95 for a trade, which is very expensive now. It's like a Dollar. We were getting a lot of business, you know, leaving to discount firms. And he says, I'm going to open a brand new company. I want you to run it. So I'm like, you know, because we really built a great relationship. A report. And I said, I'm honored, of course. When could we start? And he's like, next week. So I opened this company called New.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Haul Discount with the number one broker.

[Matt]

No, no, he stays.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Oh.

[Matt]

So I'm opening it with one other broker. It's me and another young kid, actually a little older than me. I think he was like 26. But I was literally not even. I think I just turned 19. So I go out and I open that. Now I'm on my own, so all the clients I bring in are mine. And so I'm building my book of business, right? And then a year later, I was the number one retail broker in the world.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

In the world.

[Matt]

In the world. I broke every record in commissions as a retail commodity trader. So for the next 11 years, I went to Chicago, I ran Chicago office, which I can give you a really amazing story that.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Can you explain to me what a retail commodities broker?

[Matt]

Yeah, exactly, of course. So let's say you want to buy soybeans, crude oil, gas. We traded everything. Pork bellies, movie. Eddie Murphy is in trading places, Right? That's what we did. But you would call us and then we would buy or sell the transaction. Let's call it 10 contracts of soybeans for argument's sake. And then we would go to the exchange and buy it, give you the price. And then we facilitated all the transactions and we would get a commission for each one.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And why do you think you were so good at that?

[Matt]

I think just the grind. I learned at an early age to hustle. And then what I was really good at is mirroring the customer. A lot of people will hang up on you or they just try to get you off the phone. And I found little measures to kind of drop their guard so we can have a conversation. And it might be a conversation of not even about what I'm selling you.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

It's so interesting to me because so many of the people that I speak to. I'm sure this is not going to shock you, but so many of the people I speak to in this, in sort of the illegal realm of the world are very, very talented. They're very good. And they start with that talent and then they sort of go.

[Matt]

They deviate.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

They could. Yeah, they deviate.

[Matt]

Right around 21 years old is when I started Deviating.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

What happened?

[Matt]

Because I, I still have the love for gambling. See, gambling for me is a problem because it was my form of escape. You know, I didn't drink much, I never did drugs, never even tried drugs. Even though I sold some weed. I just wasn't into that. So sports betting was the deadly combo for me. I love sports and I love the rush of gambling. Well, there's no better combo for a guy like me than that. So I would always lose money to bookies, I would go to the racetrack. And then as I became more successful, that got heightened.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

As a broker. You were becoming more successful as a broker and you started gambling more.

[Matt]

At 21, I made $700,000 a year. So I actually purchased the home that my parents lost and moved into it at 21. So my 2 year old daughter was sleeping in my old bedroom and I was in my parents room. It was a little eerie at first, but it was such a prideful moment for me. I had a black Mercedes sl. I was, you know, all the kids in my neighborhood now I grew, I was much bigger, I was more attractive. I was just like everything was going for me. You know, my wife and I were having, expecting another baby and just my world was perfect in that regard. White picket fence, family. But I had this love for gambling and I started taking bets throughout my office because I had, if you think about this picture, the Wolf of Wall street, you have guys that are 21 to 50 who make more money than 99% of Americans who have gambling problems, slash drug problems, slash cocaine, hookers, all the above. Because that's that lifestyle they're living. And I was like, you know what, I don't do any of those things. But I love gambling so I'll just start taking their bets. And then I started making a lot of money doing that.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And that's how it started.

[Matt]

That's how it started.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So you come into the office and say, hey guys, who wants to bet on the game this weekend?

[Matt]

I didn't have to say, they come to me. I'd be at my desk and they come over and say, what's the line on the Packers? I'd say, oh, minus six, give me 5,000 on it. All right? And I'd write it down. Now keep in mind this is before the Internet was really coming in to fruition. So now I'm taking these bets myself. Just like on pad of paper, right? And these guys always paid because they made a lot of money. I don't have to worry about, you know, problems like that. And so fast forward, all of a sudden the Internet comes along and.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Wait just a second. So you were taking a cut from these, these bets at this point?

[Matt]

No, no, I was the house, I was the casino. There's no cut. So in other words, whatever bets they made, I was responsible for them winning or losing?

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Oh yes. If they lost, the money was yours, of course.

[Matt]

And if they won, I would pay them. But because in sports betting, for those people that don't understand how sports betting works, it's minus 110 every time you make a bet. You have to risk $11 to make 10. And that's the vig or the juice that eats people alive over time. Right. So even if they win 10 grand this week, they're going to lose probably 20 the next, you know, or six months from now, they're still going to be in the hole, most likely because of the vig is going to eat them up over time. And that's how the house wins.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Right, that's what I was going to say. Which is why the house always wins.

[Matt]

Correct. And it's no different than blackjack and craps and roulette. The vig set in to where they have an edge. And that's that edge over time is what why I used to lose and why everyone loses. I mean 1% less than 1% can win betting sports in the world.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So what was the peak that money that you were making at that point still, when you were still a broker and you were still just as a broker.

[Matt]

I never really made more than like a million million too.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

No, but I mean with the sports betting.

[Matt]

Well, that, that. So when you fast forward, I started making more on the bookmaking operation and that's when I, at 30 years old is when I decided to walk away from commodities.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So you were still in comm. Still a broker for nine years?

[Matt]

10 years actually from, from 19 to 30. I was in that business, yeah.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Okay, 11 years.

[Matt]

And I did it because I, it, it gave me a W2 paycheck which I paid federal taxes. I could buy a house. And the business that I was running, I didn't never saw it. I mean everything I do I expect to be the best. But I never saw it as a business. It was more a hobby. It was like something I enjoyed. My business was being a commodity trader and eventually running my own firm, which I started at 28. Here I am running a legal business that I feel is immoral, but yet I loved my legal business, which was to me very moral at the time, even to this day.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Why was the brokering business immoral in your opinion?

[Matt]

90% of the people that invested lost. Literally. And so we were selling them. We weren't doing anything illegal, but we were selling them a bag of goods that I just didn't agree with.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Right.

[Matt]

And I got it grinded on me. So as a young man, I wanted to feed my family and I was being. All I cared about was, this is legal. You know, I kind of compartmentalized, like, oh, this isn't bad. Over time it just eat at me because you're calling a 70 year old farmer in Iowa and he's, let's say his retirement's a million dollars. And my job was to try to get as much money as I can from him to send in to trade in the markets, knowing that almost more than likely he's going to lose.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah, I mean, that's almost like what scammers do, right?

[Matt]

It is. And it's legal. And they had every right. Here's the, here's the one good thing. They had every right to say no. They had every right to make a decision on what we were investing in. But at the end of the day, we were leading them to the water, you know, to drink it. And, you know, to this day, I still didn't really love or appreciate any part of the business other than the fact that I was making a lot of money and I thought I was doing something so cool. And you know, I thought I watched the movie Wall street with Charlie Sheen and I felt like Charlie Sheen at the end, you know, like he was just involved in something that. Well, that was illegal. It's a little different, but it felt illegal, you know, but yet here I am running this other business that is illegal that I like and all my clients love me. Like they, when I say love me, I mean, they didn't like losing money to me, but they chose to do it. They made all the bets. I don't push them into anything. I don't call and say, hey Mariana, let's buy 20 contracts of soybeans. You would call me and say, please.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Please, please, let me put money on.

[Matt]

Let me bet on this. And guess what? Most of them, it was entertainment. Most of them, of course, some clients got out of control. They would lose more money than they should have. And it became a problem. I'm saying that it was perfect because it wasn't. But the ones in general for that, I had some of these clients for 25 years.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Wow.

[Matt]

Literally. I mean, when I went to, in front of the federal judge, I'm not joking. I had 30, 40 people that were willing to write a letter. They lost a million dollars to me and said, this guy is fantastic. He's done nothing to me. I've lost a lot of money. I don't care. I chose to do this.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

He pays on time. He doesn't lie. He, like, gets me what I want.

[Matt]

That wouldn't help me, so I had to tell them, don't bother.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Right, right.

[Matt]

But my point is that's how morally it felt to me.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's. You're at the crossroads of your life at this point, and you could have chosen the legal, yet what felt immoral versus the illegal, but at the time, what felt right for you to do. And yeah, you picked with what was right.

[Matt]

I did.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

You. Was there any part of you at the time that realized, obviously, this might feel right, but it's still illegal? And I'm like, yeah, playing with fire here.

[Matt]

Here's the thing. Like, looking back, I realized that I have the talents that I could have done so many other things. Yeah. And that's where I made a poor choice. The poor choice was to not do commodities and not do, you know, illegal bookmaking. Because neither one felt good for me. One was illegal. That's why it didn't feel good. And the other one was legal but didn't feel good. Right. But when you're young and you have a child coming and you just, you know, I'm not making excuses. I'm accountable for my actions, but I'm trying to give you some answer on maybe where my mind was at the time. Just go. Work hard, make money. Feed your family. Do the right thing. And then the other poor choice came later was like, okay, I don't really like this, but why did I choose something illegal? Well, the reason I chose it is because I love sports and gambling, and it also made me a lot of money and it was feeding my lifestyle. So selfishly, I loved it. But with my talents, I could have easily been a CEO of fricking Verizon or something. There's no reason I wouldn't be sitting here right now. No. But I also.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

You wouldn't be going to prison either.

[Matt]

You're right. Truly. Even though everyone asked me, do you have regrets? I'm like, anyone who says they have no regrets is really lying to you, because we all have regrets. But I understand why people say they don't have regrets, because it does make you who you are and mold you to the person you are. So there's a part of me that is glad I've chose these poor decisions because I feel like I'm the best human being of myself today. The best father, the best husband, the best person. But I still believe if I made better choices, I still could end up in the same seat being this person or even better. So it's hard. That's a really tough thing to answer.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And tell me when it was growing. So your bookmaking operation was growing. I find it a fascinating world and I think most people don't understand quite how it works.

[Matt]

Sure.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So paint the picture for me. How exactly does it work? Okay, so you left brokering and then you start this. Did you have a company? Because it very much operated like a company. Did it have a name? Was it.

[Matt]

I mean, to a degree. You can't advertise, you don't have a business card. But I was a CEO of a very large corporation. There's no doubt about it. And I ran it that way. So when I was 30, that's when I really decided, okay, I'm going to do this full time. There's no other job. This is my income. Then I really put my a hundred percent into it. And once the Internet came is when I knew I could scale it. And I saw that opportunity. I was one of the first bookmakers to go to Costa Rica and set up a per head shop, they call it, which basically means they facilitate all my actions. So everything was run through the hub in Costa Rica. That's what made it a little bit legal.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So these are gambling sites that they had in Costa Rica.

[Matt]

Correct.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

That already existed and you went down there and you sort of made contract with them.

[Matt]

Correct? No, you're right. I went down there and I said, look, I want to start my own website because I wanted my website to be specifically for me. And the reason for that is there was a lot of people having these problems. Let's say that you opened a website and let's say you're a person that had no integrity and didn't pay your customers. If I'm using that same website, that website gets known throughout the industry, in the community. Oh, if you bet with this website, you don't get paid.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Right. And reputation is everything.

[Matt]

Yeah, so much. It's actually the only thing really in that business. So I wanted my own website because I first started on what they call a platform. It was called Data Wager. And Data Wager was where like a million bookies were using it. Well, again, that's the problem I started seeing. So then I went down there and Said, I want to start my own. So I created my own. It was called BreaktheBookie.net and I wanted the customer to feel like they could beat the bookie.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

You know, that's great.

[Matt]

So I started that.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Very smart.

[Matt]

Right. And that took off. And then I started developing more websites because I wanted different platforms for my customers. I want to give them options. I wanted to also have. I had an online casino that had Imagine cameras on us right now, and you have a blackjack table, a roulette table, a crafts table, and they could see live dealing so that when they would bet the cards were live, there's no cheating, and the dealer would talk to you. So you would say on your phone or computer, hi, Mariana. And the dealer would say, hi, Hi, Matt. Literally, and wave to you so you knew it was real.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Was that something that didn't exist at the time?

[Matt]

No, not then.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

It exists now.

[Matt]

It does. And it took a while. I would say, maybe 10 years ago. That's about when that started. And so we were the first to develop all these things because they had online blackjack and stuff, but it was. It was just looking at a screen, and everyone thought it was being rigged because you don't see it. So we decided to develop a way where you could see it. So to get, you know, a portal where you can go online and actually feel like you're not being, you know. Robbed.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Robbed. Yeah.

[Matt]

They loved it.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And so that took off, too. And so now, as you know, I mean, fast forwarding to today's economy, they have everything. But my websites had most of these things early days, so I was able to offer things at other bookmakers weren't.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So you had the casino you had. What else did you have?

[Matt]

Well, sports betting. Yeah, Casino. We even had poker for a little while, but that was kind of a disaster because it, you know, getting people to a poker table, you know, at certain times and all that. But mainly, it was all. I took every sports there was. I mean, it was soccer, cricket.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And was it different websites for different sports, or was it all.

[Matt]

No, they all had the same thing, but they were just different platforms. And the reason why is. Let's say you're a customer of mine and you just kept losing to me, and you're kind of fed up, and I could feel it. I'd say, you know, Mariana, why don't you try this other website, Different. You know, just to change it up? Because I wanted to. I knew that you're close to shutting it down, or maybe you're just feeling that this is unlucky because let's be honest, superstition is very big in gambling. So I would convert you to a different website.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So Matt, at this point you were started making a lot of money, right? What was, what was the most amount? What was like your peak? How much money were you making?

[Matt]

My peak was 2023. I made I think 16 million. Um, but that was my peak year.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And did you, did you, how did you launder, like, how did you wash this money?

[Matt]

That was, how do you clean it? I think the, as a bookmaker that was the biggest challenge. Actually. People don't realize that. They think, I mean, you have to know what you're doing, you got to vet customers. There's a lot of nuances to running this business, especially at this level. But I had to move 5 to $7 million every Monday throughout the country.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

To pay, to pay for bets for people who won and lost.

[Matt]

Yeah, and I had about 1200 clients at my peak. But I know a lot of bookmakers that had 2,3000 clients. But the volume wasn't even a tenth of what I was doing because I had more high end, high celebrities, athletes, people that are known that would come to me because I would take bigger bets than most people.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Did you have people that you turned away that wanted to bet with you, but you said no?

[Matt]

Only if they were known as a professional. Or a sharp, they call it. A sharp is a word that we use for guys who actually win. And that's a person that basically runs algorithms. They run robot algorithms that run this, that simulates a game.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Is it easy to spot them?

[Matt]

Oh yeah, it's in two seconds.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Because what they start winning a lot and you realize, okay, this guy's not.

[Matt]

Even that they're winning a lot. We know they're going to win a lot. It's. They start betting on a Wednesday, a game that's going off on a Sunday, they're betting five days in advance and the line that they bet moves drastically. So let me give you an example. Let's say a college football game, UCLA is playing USC this weekend. Just as argument's sake, let's say the spread is minus 7, okay? Their computer will run the system down thousand different ways based on the referees, the wind, everything you, things you would never even think of, right? And it runs it down and it'll spit out a number on all these variances. It'll say minus three, minus two, minus. Like it's basically telling you all these different ways that this line is wrong. It shouldn't Be minus seven. So now if you know you're getting seven and they have like a four or five point edge, that's massive enough in a sports bet. Right? So basically they'll just come in and they'll bet +7. On my website you're like, and they're betting on a Wednesday. Well, a normal gambler doesn't do that. They bet on Saturday morning an hour before the game goes off or five minutes before it's on tv.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah, because you don't know what can happen until then. Right. The player can get injured or whatever.

[Matt]

100%, weather can change. Yeah. Or as a degenerate gambler, you don't even care about that game until it's on tv. You're not worried about what's happening next Saturday, you're worried about what's happening today. So they're easy to pick off.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Okay, so those you would say no to, but that's about it. If people need money, they would come, but you'd say yes.

[Matt]

The only time I would really say no too is if like the referral is not a strong referral. You know, for example, if you have a guy who doesn't have a really good pay history with you and he all of a sudden is referring some big customer, it's like, eh, I mean.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

I'm sure a lot of your customers actually had huge gambling issues.

[Matt]

Of course.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And would you ever turn them down knowing that they're about to lose their house or have whatever family problems? Were there ever part of you that was okay? This is not right. I don't feel good. Even though he's willing to pay millions.

[Matt]

Of dollars, I don't want to sit here and act like I'm an angel, because I'm not. But I had a lot of clients that were betting more money than they could afford. No question. But I also was, I wasn't in need of money so bad that I would just watch someone just bury themselves and hurt their life to the point. In fact I've even told people, I'm like, look, you're losing way too much. I know you're. We have a 10 year history. I know that you can't afford this. Let's just cut it back. You know, let's. Instead of a 2000 a game, how about I give you 500 a game? Let's lower your credit line and keep it more reasonable. Because I know in the long run that they're going to lose money. But I listen if you.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And it's better for you too, right?

[Matt]

It is.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Because you can keep them for longer.

[Matt]

Yes. And listen, if you have a guy, a plumber, great example. Nothing wrong with being a plumber. In fact, I'm going to prison, so I wish I was a plumber. But the point is, if he makes $70,000 a year and he spends $5,000 of that gambling, that's probably affordable. But if he loses 30, it's gonna affect his life. And even though I would like to make 30,000 off of someone, of course that's why I was running a business. I would prefer him to pay me 5,000 over the next 10 years and make 50. And it doesn't affect his life. He has fun, nobody gets hurt, his family's fine. So that's the sweet spot. Right. And you have to find a way as a bookmaker to also train your employees, my agents and sub agents, to understand how to do that. And it's difficult because.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

How many people do you have working for you?

[Matt]

I had 48 agents.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

48?

[Matt]

Yeah, across the country. And then they had sub agents under them. So maybe, maybe 200 total. But.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So these were people that were dealing with the people placing the bets, right? Yes, yes, the agents and the sub agents.

[Matt]

Correct.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And you were basically sort of the kingpin of the whole operation, making sure that things were running smoothly. Kind of like the CEO of the operation. A million percent and one if people didn't pay. So I did a story on traffic on the Nat Geo show about illegal gambling, actually. And I spent some time. I've spent a lot of time in illegal gambling dens. Everything from dice to what are called the casitas here in. Have you heard of this? They play the fish game.

[Matt]

Yeah, I haven't seen it, but I've heard of it. Right.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

It's really a fascinating world.

[Matt]

Yeah, it is.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

To, you know, actually high end poker games. I went to one in a high rise in Los Angeles. I went to one in a Beverly Hills mansion. It was insane. But I remember speaking to one of the. She used to be a woman called the Queen. She calls herself the Queen of Poker. She used to be a dealer in Vegas. And she realized that she can make a lot more money by running a poker game. Running a poker game, sure. And. And I asked her, because it's all done by credit. It's not as if people go around with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of money in their pocket. So how do you make sure that people pay you? Because it's credit. And she said, well, I'm right now I'm owed half a million dollars. And she wasn't a big. I mean, she's called the Queen of Poker, but I like. It's not.

[Matt]

That's a big figure.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah, that's. For her is a big figure. Half a million dollars. And. And how do you make sure people pay you? And they have enforcers. And I asked a bunch of people on that story and. Yeah, they talked about enforcers. If there's a Russian group running a Russian poker game, you bet you're out.

[Matt]

Otherwise. Yeah, which. Which they don't mess around.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Right.

[Matt]

I mean, it's. There's different clicks for each. Like, for example, the Armenians have their Armenians. That's very true.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah. And so did you have enforcers or how do you make sure that people paid?

[Matt]

When I was younger, I was the enforcer. I was in much better shape. I was.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

You're in great shape now.

[Matt]

Well, I try. It's hard at 50. Thank you. But when I was younger, I was in really good shape, and I was like, I'm already overly confident, alpha male, let's be real. My ego's already big enough. But it was really big then to the point where, you know, I thought it was indestructible, which was.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

You'd show up at people.

[Matt]

I would just show up myself.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

If you don't pay.

[Matt]

Yeah. And then I would usually bring. I had a friend of mine, it was Samoan. He's about six. Six tattoos all over his face, and he just looked like he would eat a person for lunch.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Did you beat people up?

[Matt]

No, I didn't have to do that because that. That would get me put in prison. And to be honest, I never resorted to violence. Ever. I wouldn't anyway, to be honest, I would. I would portray that, you know, I would portray that this could get ugly. I would never say anything like, oh, I'm gonna. Or physically harm you, but I would definitely make them feel that. That if they don't communicate or work this out, there's going to be a problem. But I never actually hurt people or put my hands on people. I'm a father, you know, at the end of the day, if I. The way. As I get older, what I realized, if I gave you too much credit, I started blaming myself. It's on me. And that was easier to walk away from. But when I was younger, I was more like my reputation is everything, and I got to send a message that I can't be screwed with. And that went away very fast.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So you didn't really do that?

[Matt]

No.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Running the bigger operation.

[Matt]

No, because I would end up in.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Prison, make sure that people paid you.

[Matt]

I just walked away from a lot of debt right now. When the feds raided me, I had to walk away from $44 million that's owed to me right now currently that I can't collect.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

How much? Sorry?

[Matt]

44 million.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Holy shit.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

That much money is owed?

[Matt]

Yeah. 24 million is owed by the interpreter, by himself, Ippei Mizuhara. But there was another $20 million owed to me on the streets that I had to walk away from. And if I collected any of that, I would be committing a crime. And the irs, so even though you.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Owe the government money right now, you can't actually use the money that's owed to you to pay that debt.

[Matt]

I actually asked them with my lawyer. I had a gentleman that wanted to pay, and it was literally just under a million dollars, and he wanted to pay. He was being honorable. And I said to the IRS agent, can we. Or I should say the prosecutor, can we have him pay directly to the IRS on my behalf? And they said, absolutely not. So there was no. Not even a question.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

That's. It seems silly to me. Right. Because the government would benefit from this. At least there's money coming. This guy obviously did something wrong. He knew he was betting illegally. Let him pay because.

[Matt]

And it would have really helped my situation because right Now I'm paying $56,000 a month in interest on 2023. Or. Yeah, 2024. Tax return and 23. Excuse me.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Right. That you didn't pay, which was one of the things that you were.

[Matt]

Well, no, I paid. I Actually, I didn't file that yet. So my. What I got charged for was my 2022.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Right.

[Matt]

But when I got rated.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So wait, just to go Back to the 2022 you. You filed that you had made how much money?

[Matt]

That money I filed that year, I think it was. I paid $680,000 in taxes and. But you had actually made 4.6 million.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Million.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah. And the reason for that, just to be clear, remember, I have properties. I have a family. I have. Like, I had to pay taxes, number one, for my lifestyle, number two, you can't buy a house or do anything without having a tax return. So I filed as a professional gambler. That particular year, I lost over $4 million in the casinos. So my CPA filed as a professional gambler, and we wrote off my losses against my profits in my business. They wouldn't allow that. The IRS said that that's unacceptable because it's running a legal business. And you can't offset your gambling losses against your gambling business because it's illegal. So my tax return charge, it's called a falsified tax return. It's different than tax evasion, tax ev. Evasions. When you just say screw, you don't pay. Right. I was paying. I paid a lot of taxes. I just didn't pay the proper amount in their eyes. And so I want to be clear that it wasn't. You know, tax evasion is a big difference.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Right? Yeah. So, okay, so you're. You're. You're getting these people putting really high bets. You're, by the way, are other people doing the. Having people threatening them with violence in this, in the business, or is this something that you heard about?

[Matt]

It happens, yes. It's no different than a guy selling a. You know, you could. You've seen people get shot in Los Angeles for $100 and a wee.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

We actually had an altercation when we were filming in the high rise for the legal poker game, where we're not to this day. Sure what happened. But we were there filming and initially we were able to get into the room and there were three tables with these guys. All. It was, I think, a mix of professional poker players, amateurs, a lot of the poker girls, but it was mainly just the men playing. And I was told some members of some criminal organizations, like cartel members and whatnot, where people. Fast money, right? You make fast money from drugs, you go and spend that fast money. So there was a lot of that. And then we were just on the side. On the side, sort of entrance. Filming an interview, I believe it was with the poker queen, the queen of poker. And when we suddenly hear shouting, and I looked and there was a guy who takes out a gun and points out the other guy and starts yelling at it. And I was told later it had something to do with somebody owing money. So, yeah, I'm sure. I know that there's violence around this, and I think that is probably what scares the government the most. Right. It's the illegal money that you're making. Yeah. The money that's not being taken by the government.

[Matt]

Right.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Untaxed money. But it's also the violence around it because there's a lot of people who are killed because of deaths.

[Matt]

Sadly, I think your first answer is the more accurate one, which is they're not getting their cut.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Right.

[Matt]

To be honest. But it should be the second answer, which is violence. And I totally agree with you. But I believe no matter what, that that's going to continue because even though it's becoming illegal in every state, which eventually it will be in California within two years. I guarantee you that.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

California is one of the only 11 states, right, where it's still over.

[Matt]

And that's only because the Indian casinos are fighting back. And it's just a matter of who wants that pie or the main part of the pie. But the reality is, it will be legal here. And when it is, you're still gonna have a million illegal bookies forever.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah, that's the thing that people would that were fighting for the legalization of gambling. They would always say, the best thing that can happen is legalizing this because it will do away with all of the black market, the illegal side of it. But that's not true, as you know.

[Matt]

Not at all. Not even close.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

I mean, I know this from reporting on this. The same thing will happen with the weed business in California.

[Matt]

Correct?

[Mariana Van Zeller]

It was legalized. Everybody thought the black market would disappear. The black market grew more than ever bigger. And if you talk to anyone who was working in the illegal side of the business, they will tell you the best thing that can happen is legalizing gas. Because that makes it normal and custom for all of us.

[Matt]

That's correct. And the truth is, I'll speak for the weed side. I'm not in that business. But I have a lot of people that were especially customers, and they all tell me the same thing. They would be happy to pay all the proper taxes and do all of it, but it's so high, they can't even operate.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah, they make it impossible.

[Matt]

They can't. They have to do illegal stuff. And that's really the wrong message. Like, if you're saying you want to make it legal and you want to make your cut, well, make it so these people can operate and give you your cut without doing illegal stuff. So I think it's unfair. Gambling. Gambling's a little different. Gambling. Because customers are gambling over their head. Almost all of them in general. You know, I shouldn't say all of them, but a very big percentage, as.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

In gambling, more money than they actually have.

[Matt]

Correct. And here's the problem. Let's say that you are a 500 or better, okay? Like on a football games or basketball games. And you want to bet.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

I'm a soccer girl.

[Matt]

Okay? Soccer. Let's just say soccer. It's fine. You want to bet Real Madrid? You want to bet Barcelona? They're all playing at the same time. Okay.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Portuguese games. Matt.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

I'm from Portugal.

[Matt]

All right, There you go. So let's pick 10 Portugal games.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Or whatever Ronaldo plays.

[Matt]

Okay, perfect. Well, I don't blame you. But if there's 10 games going at once and you bet $500, that means you need at least six grand in your account. Okay. It doesn't mean you're risking six grand. Even though you might bet 10 games, you're more likely not going to lose all 10. But you have to have that money in your account. Well, guess what? A lot of people have a hard time departing with $6,000 at once to go put in an account at DraftKings or FanDuel or wherever they bet. And number one, because you have to do a financial colonoscopy before you open an account. Number two, you got to report everything tax wise, which nobody likes that, of course. And here's the big kicker. A lot of people are hiding these things from their wives or husbands or whatever and don't want to disclose them out there gambling. So now it's they're on a credit card or a bank account to see a wire or whatever. And then here's the other issue. I'll use football, for example. If you bet all 10 games and at 10 o' clock, they go off at 10am for NFL at 1 o', clock, some of the games start playing the next set. If your games aren't over, you can't even bet the next set of games because you only had $6,000 in your account. So you might have to put in $10,000. Well, with a credit account, you don't have to worry about that. You just ask your bookie for more credit and he'll give you more credit because you aren't using all of it. But you need it to make all these wagers. At the end of the week you settle up.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah, I mean, in a way you're basically introducing this sort of. It's sort of like the gateway drug. Right. By legalizing it a lot more. People who probably, maybe wouldn't start with the illegal side of it, they would just do it legally.

[Matt]

Correct.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Are now they see everybody else is doing it. It's being advertised on network television everywhere. Right. You're seeing it everywhere. You have, you know, ESPN is banking on.

[Matt]

Yeah. They have their own company. And here's the problem. You said it best. So a person goes into the legal side, they get their feet wet. They realize they're like, that's a pain in the neck, you know, to go through all this to bet legally. Hey, John, do you have a bookie? Right, how's he. What's it like? Oh, it's that easy. He's a nice guy. He just comes over and pays you on the whatever. Yeah, here, connect me. And then boom, now they're over here. Or even worse, the people that are going to run out of money to put as a post up. That's what it's called to put the money with. DraftKings now want to gamble, but they're broke. So what are they going to do? They're going to go bet with a bookie and they're going to create a problem. And that's where the problems, you know, violence and stuff like that coming. Because now they're going to go open an account, bet with someone with no money, take a shot, owe a guy money, which is an insult. You know, just start firing at someone. And what if they win the first week? They're going to get paid in the second week. They probably don't have it now. It's a real problem. So these are the issues that are opening up Pandora's box in this area that is only going to get worse. Here's the bigger problem. This is something that's really not being discussed very much. We have a current epidemic right now. I have a 22 year old daughter, I have a 26 year old daughter. And when their boyfriends and friends come over, they're all gambling and they're gambling and I ask them, I said, well where do you get your money? Yeah, they work at whatever Chick Fil a or something, you know, they're in college and they're like, well our parents give us money for school. And I'm like, so you're using that. So imagine like a 22 year old kid or a 25 year old kid who's gambling now and small, 50 bucks, whatever. Now fast forward six years from now when they have money. Yeah, they're 30 years old, they have a job, they make 100 grand a year.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Right.

[Matt]

They have a baby coming, they're getting married, they just bought their first house or condo or whatever and now they start gambling and they create a gambling problem. And guess what? They're going to start dipping into their family issues and their wife and it's going to create divorce and all kinds of problems. And it's all coming sadly five years from now. I'm very scared to how bad this epidemic is going to be.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah, Having reported on this, I really think the legalization of gambling in general was a terrible idea. But here we are and you started actually with working. You were, you had your operation happening at the time. So you started making A lot of money.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And I want to get to the shoi otani of it all. But I also want to ask how for people who don't know. So I would contact you or your agent or sub agent, I'd place the bet. And then how does the distribution of the cash, how is that done? How is the laundering of the money all of, like, what would happen to, let's say, $1,000 that I place in a bet?

[Matt]

Like, yeah, the logistics of everything.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah, the logistics of it. How do you run a company that's essentially legal?

[Matt]

So the bigger my business got, the easier it was to move the money, because I had so many more hubs of ways to move it. So for example, I would say to you, Mariana, how would you like to be paid? And you might say, venmo. Okay, no problem. How do you want to be paid? Or how do you want to pay me? Venmo Cash app, Cash, whatever. There's so many options, right?

[Mariana Van Zeller]

But that's if I was a small, small fish player, right? Because you can only pay with like $5,000 max.

[Matt]

But that's why. That's why I would ask you. So let's say you are a bigger player. We would do crypto, wires, cash. There's so many formats that are available. So you're right. Smaller player, Venmo, you could do up to 10,000 if you ask them. I know all this because I know all the limits of everything. Right.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

I call my Venmo.

[Matt]

Right? Yeah. Cash app, Zelle, Apple Pay. Of course you have. Well, crypto is obvious. You have every form of crypto and then cash.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

What do you mean? Like people with bags of money would show up and how would you pay people?

[Matt]

However they wanted, side of the country, whatever they wanted. And that's part of my service is you tell me how you want it and where you want it, and you'll have it.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So if somebody just won, I don't know, $50,000. Okay, there is a man that shows up with a briefcase with 50,000 or.

[Matt]

$100,000 if they live in California. My runners would drive to their location, wherever they requested. Work, home, parking lot, whatever they choose, and be there at that time with that bag of cash.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

What if it was Neose?

[Matt]

If it was. If it was in Kentucky, FedEx you a package in magazines or Monopoly or some form of board game.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Hidden.

[Matt]

It would be hidden in the. In the process. And we would FedEx it to you in different envelopes. Because I've had many issues with FedEx and UPS, of course, if the drivers know that there's cash in there, they're taking it. So you have to really package it appropriately. And then we would send the packages out. And sometimes I would do it in like three or four packages just to be safe. Because if one gets lost, at least you're losing only 10,000 or instead of 50. But that all varies on the person. Yeah.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

How were you laundering your money, the money that you were making?

[Matt]

Well, truth be told, I filed as a professional gambler, so I didn't have to really launder much. The only reason I laundered money is because I was debanked and because I got kicked out of Chase, Wells Fargo US Bank.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Because they knew that it was shady money.

[Matt]

Correct. And I stopped depositing cash because cash transactions is what got me in trouble many years ago. So for the last 10 years before I was rated, I didn't do any more cash transactions. It kept me in the banks longer. But once you're flagged, you're flagged. And so now I'm at a credit union because since I got in trouble two years ago when I got raided, now it's national news. And now they, as you know, you probably know this, the banking entities actually do they run your name. And if Google, if you Google my name, it's very obvious that I was doing something illegal because it's every channel in the world. But once they find that out, they'll debank you. And they just don't want any, you know, eyes on them, any federal problems. It's really about the federal government on them. They don't. They would take your business if they didn't have that concern. So my point is I had to have other people, beards, I call them, who were running my operation as far as finances. And I would have throughout the whole country.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So they owned bank accounts where your money was stored? Correct, with. Under their names.

[Matt]

Not only bank accounts, Venmos, cash, apps. Apple Pays. Like I had. I had hubs, I call them, throughout the country. Let's just say that you won and you live in Wyoming and you won 18,000. And you'd say, I'll take it all in Apple Pay. Well, as you said earlier, there's limits. Right. So Apple Pay will allow you, I think, to send 9999. So I'd have to have maybe 5,000 from this guy, 4,000 from this guy. And I would get on my phone and I would get to all these people and say, send 4,000 to this phone number. Send 5,000. And I would operate that that and.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

You'Re paying them a certain percentage of whatever.

[Matt]

Yeah, they'd all work for me, so they would have customers. A lot of them would just hold my money. So out of all my agents, they were all holding money. And the reason they would hold money is if their players won. I wanted to be paid right away, but also allowed me to, you know, facilitate the money because I could if I had it all in my possession. That doesn't really help me. So I had to build trust with each person. And based on that, trust in that relationship would be how much money I would hold with them. And once I felt a little shaky with that person, I would lower them out their holding as the holding increased, because I didn't want that on the streets. Because, of course, I got burned many times with people to just take it and go gamble away their own money or just steal it or whatever. But that's where the relationship, the vetting and the talent I think I had was reading people, you know, getting to like, how do you. How do you feel someone out and know that you could trust them? And limited transactions.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So how many beers did you have working for you?

[Matt]

I had 48 agents who all. All held money, of course, but I probably had another May 20people that would hold money for me that weren't really directly involved in my operation. I had a guy who owned a wheel and tire shop that I had $2 million stored in his tires, you know, up in his rafters, let's call it in California. Yeah, yeah. So when I needed money, a lot of money.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Hidden in your house as well.

[Matt]

Well, they got all that, but you didn't. Well, so they raided me on Thursday. If they raided me on Monday, Yeah, they would have had another million five. But I just paid everybody.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Because that was the days. You paid. Right. You paid off on Monday.

[Matt]

Yes. So I. I got off a plane.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah.

[Matt]

On Monday. I took a plane from the casino. I went to the Dallas Cowboys game on a private jet from Resorts World, and then I got home the next day on a Monday, and then it was Thursday, I think was when they raided. Wednesday or Thursday they raided me.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And how much money did they get?

[Matt]

It was like about a million dollars total in assets, and I was about 270in cash chips.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

But you had had a million more.

[Matt]

In cash, like a 1.5 million, 1.2. I think I dispersed on a Monday and Tuesday.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So all this happened essentially because of the meeting that you had. Right. A few years before in San Diego.

[Matt]

No, actually didn't. Had nothing to do with that? Oh, no, the whole world thought that.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

What, I got my sources wrong? I got my information wrong? What a terrible journalist I am.

[Matt]

Not at all. That's exactly what everyone thought and thinks until I.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So wait, so it wasn't Shohei Ohtani that brought you down? No. It was the casino's investigation?

[Matt]

That's correct.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Okay, but let's go to Shohei Ohtani, interpreter first. So you went. Tell us how you met the interpreter. His name, by the way, is Ippe.

[Matt]

Ippe Mezuhara. And I met him in 2021. I had a relationship with a lot of athletes and particularly a few Angels baseball players I'd play golf with and hang out with, and they bet with me, et cetera. And I went to their spring training games and hung out with a lot of them. And so in that relationship, you just meet more of them. Right. So I went to a Padres Angels game, and after. It was in September, after the game, we went to their local hotel where the team was staying, and they had a private poker game. It wasn't a rake game. It was just for fun. And there's probably four players there, maybe three players. There was the first base coach and maybe eight of us regular Joes that were all just messing around, having pizza and just, you know, the game was over. The guys hanging out, a lot of them, like Mike Trout and Shohei Ohtani, they weren't there. They're probably in their rooms or whatever. They don't gamble, or maybe they don't play poker, or maybe at least not on that night. So, long story short, Ippei Mazuhara was there. And of course, I knew who he was.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Oh, you did?

[Matt]

Immediately I knew, yeah. Because Shohei Ohtani is the biggest athlete in the world. Even then, he was becoming right.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And he was with Shohei all the time. He was his translator. He's also supposedly best friend. Right?

[Matt]

For sure. They were really close, and it was very obvious. So he was on his phone placing a sports bet, and a friend of mine who was in soccer.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Right?

[Matt]

Yep. A friend of mine who was sitting there, I was playing poker, and he says, hey, Ippe, you know, Matt does that. And they just started conversating and being friends, whatever, having pizza, and he goes. Their conversation turned into him getting. Giving him an account. It was a really small account. It was 1,000 per game and an $8,000 credit line, which is very reasonable for a interpreter. So that's how the whole relationship started. Well, that zoomed real quick into a private jet to where it was $40,000 in credit, extension to $300,000 in credit to where I took it over. Because now we're talking. These are big numbers. And when they're big numbers, I'm going to get involved. It's my operation.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And because he was paying all the time, right. Even when he was losing, he was paying you, so you knew that you could extend the credit.

[Matt]

In truth, we extended to 40 right away, no problem. And then when it went to 300, of course I'm making this decision. I said, I'll move him to 300, but I'm not giving him more than that until he pays. So I moved him to 300,000, and then he wired the money right away. So then he asked for 500,000. So of course I did that. Then he lost the 500,000 he paid right away.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So I'm like, what was he betting.

[Matt]

On, by the way? Mostly soccer. 80%, a little bit NBA, little NFL, but almost all soccer, which is very popular in Japan.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Was he just a very bad better? It's terrible.

[Matt]

Yeah. Really bad, actually.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

He always bet on the wrong thing.

[Matt]

He just, he bet too many bets. And he bet a lot of parlays, which is very difficult. You know what a parlay is? So let me explain that. So parlay is when you. You have to win multiple bets. Otherwise the bet loses, but it pays more. So you might bet, example, a three team parlay. So you're betting, let's say, three soccer teams. All three games have to win. If it wins, your $1,000 bet will pay roughly $6,000.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So it's the riskiest of bets, I guess.

[Matt]

Yeah, it's just. It pays the most. But it's so hard to win. It's hard enough to win one game, let alone three or four.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Did you bet parlays?

[Matt]

A little bit, but not very much. I was more of a straight bettor.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Okay, so 500,000. He's asking you, and at this point, are you wondering how is it possible, is this guy making this amount of money as a translator?

[Matt]

The second wire was, because now the first 300 grand. Anyone could have 300 grand. He made $250,000 a year as an interpreter at the end. So he could have saved it up or maybe money. But now when you're sending 500,000 again after losing 300. Okay, so then he asked for a million in credit. I give it to him, and then he sends another wire for 500,000. And this is when I get the phone call, and my friend says, are you sitting down? And I said, why? He says, this wire just came in. You got it? I'm okay. Great. He says, from Shohei Otani. I said, holy shit. I mean, that was a wow moment for me.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And did you think for a second, is it actually Shohei who's gambling, or did you.

[Matt]

At that moment, I thought for sure it was Shohei Ohtani.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Really?

[Matt]

I mean, because that's $1.3 million that's been paid.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Right.

[Matt]

I look at the account, he just asked me to bump him to $3 million. Okay. And I look at the account, he's already down 2 million. So I'm like, there's no way an interpreter can afford this. Right. I mean, maybe he has some family money, but this is big money. And he never said, I never asked. And the reason I never asked is because I didn't want to know. It's like, you know those moments in life where we've all had them, where it's like, you want to know really badly, but you're kind of afraid of the answer.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Because if he had said yes, what would happen?

[Matt]

Nothing. It would have actually probably made me feel better because I would have known.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

That he has money, he's good for it.

[Matt]

Yeah. But at the same time, I did make sure there was no baseball wagers. That was all that mattered to me. Because that's where.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Because it would be illegal. Right. He couldn't be able to.

[Matt]

That would be a big problem.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Bet on baseball.

[Matt]

Correct. And then I would get, get. I mean, that would come down hard on me, even though I'm just the end result. It's like if there's rig games or integrity of the sport is involved. You're talking about. The whole world's gonna hate me, including the government. Yeah.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And I'm wondering. I think most people know, but if people that don't live in the US probably don't know Shohei Otani, the best baseball player ever to ever live. Right.

[Matt]

I mean, I think he's the best athlete to ever move, period. Like, my opinion, Michael Jordan. And you're talking about Tiger Woods. I mean, this is like this gentleman can do everything.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And he's Japanese. He doesn't speak English very well, or apparently says he doesn't speak English very well, which is why he has an interpreter with him at all times. But at this point also, it was like he was. His career was launching, skyrocketing big time, globally.

[Matt]

And now he's Godzilla, let's call it of Japan and even US. Yeah.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

He's like a God. And so you received this wire you looked at the name and he was like, holy, holy shit. It's actually Shohei who's placing these bets. And this guy is just the front.

[Matt]

Yes, that's my thought for sure. And so people ask me, well, why didn't you ask? I'm like, again, I didn't really want to know. And someone's paying you $500,000 every two weeks. I don't care if it's dogs betting. I mean, at the end of the day, I provided a service. My service was doing my job. And they seemed to be happy with whatever, whoever is on the other side of the fence here. There was. If you go look at all the text messages that were sent out by the government, by the way, all like 90 of them. The government put them out for the whole world to see. There was never any signs of like, oh, my God, I'm going to kill myself, or I can't believe. You know, he would joke about it from Shay. Yeah.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

I mean, from the interpreter from Ipe. Yeah.

[Matt]

He would say, oh, I'm so bad at this. Hey, give me another 500,000.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

I've read some of these text messages. Yeah, you can tell.

[Matt]

And then you'll look at the final text that I make to him, which is, hey, man, I get. It was all a cover up. And then he says, if you look at this text, I don't know if you saw it, but he says, technically, I screwed up. It's like, what does that mean? Technically? It's like, to me, that's where the question mark is so big. I was the closest to this than anyone in the world. Other than those two gentlemen, they're the only two that know every truth, really behind everything. I believe that Shohei Ohtani knew that he was helping his friend. I believe that strongly. Do you? I do. I have no evidence other than the obvious, which is a text message that says, technically, how do you not see $16.2 million, $17 million is what he took from your bank account over almost a year and a half or two years. How do you not notice that? Number one? Number two, espn. This has not been put out anywhere. ESPN reporter Tisha Thompson, who is the one who broke this at my home, which is why I had to go tell the government. So this is what most people don't know. I had to go tell the United States government that Shohei Ohtani's wire transfers were coming in. They had no idea.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And how did she break it? How did she find out?

[Matt]

Because I have a big mouth. Because I use it as Kind of a. I was like, hey, man, I have one of the biggest athletes in the world betting with me. And so it got back to her when I got raided, because the whole reward. The world loves to see you go down in general, but most people. And they wanted my clients, other bookmakers. So someone was calling her and telling.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Her, this guy is the bookie for Shohei Ohtani.

[Matt]

Correct. So the government raided me in October. If you notice, it didn't come out about Shohei Otani until March. So that's five months. And for five months, I sat there. I didn't say a word. Well, really, technically, about three months. So January is when ESPN Tisha Thompson showed up in my house, literally, from Washington, D.C. and my lawyer sat with me, and we said, we'll listen to what you have to say, of course, because I was shitting my pants thinking she knew. And the first, like, 20 minutes of the interview of her telling us what the sources have told her were not about Shohei Ohtani. I'm like, okay, this is great. It's about Vegas and Resorts World. No problem, problem. And then she said, well, why don't you tell me about Shohei Ohtani betting and losing $4 million to you? Because she thought the number was 4 million, by the way, was a lot more than that. And I was like, oh, God, this is a disaster. So we decided not to confirm or deny anything with her, and we went right to the United States government and told them, because I had to, because it was going to come out on espn. So your first part of what you said is what everyone thought. Is that Shohei Ohtani's name? And this whole thing brought me down.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

But it was the investigation into Resorts Worlds. Correct. But okay, so first of all, you see this wire, and it's Shohei Ohtani. And you are a very competitive person, I can tell. And at this point, you're like, holy shit. This is kind of awesome, because I now have something, a calling card for everybody else. And I'm essentially the best bookie there is, because if the best player in the world is betting with me, it's.

[Matt]

A lot of, you know, classic, you know, And I'm. I have a big ego, so I definitely was, you know, somewhat bragging about it. Let's be real. And I was definitely. And I didn't, you know, I didn't anticipate this ever happening. I. I thought he would gamble with me, hopefully the rest of my life. I was a bookmaker, and.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And he was bringing you a lot.

[Matt]

Of money, of course. And to be honest, he was terrible.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah. So you were making a lot of money from him.

[Matt]

Yeah. There's no way that this account, the way it was betting, could ever win over time.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So the whole time you were thinking, for sure this money is coming from Shohei's account. For sure. Ippei is just the front for this.

[Matt]

Or maybe partners or they were partners gambling together. Yeah. I definitely didn't think Ippei was stealing the money. I mean, obviously that's easy to say now because we know that's probably what occurred, but at the time, that wasn't even a thought pattern in my mind at all because, you know, how does, in my opinion, how does he not notice it? I still think that's the biggest question. Like if I stole from you 5,000 or $5 million, if it happens in one day, you might not just be checking your account, but within 16, 18 months you're going to check your bank account. You know, that's the part that, I mean, I think Jeff Bezos would have noticed.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah. And initially the interpreter, Ippei said, he came out and he said that he did everything with the knowledge of Shohei. And then he came out and said absolutely that I was lying. It was just me. So you think he was pressured by Shohei to lie on his.

[Matt]

I think, why the Dodgers? I don't think why Shohei? Because if you look at what happened, he had that 90 minute interview on the phone with Tisha Thompson. He was in Korea. And then the very next day.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Who is this?

[Matt]

This is Ippei and Tisha. They had a 90 minute interview. 90 minutes is a long time. And he retracted this entire 90 minutes and said that what he said initially was, Shohei is the one who actually sent the wire, the very first wire. And she was asking him, basically she had the sources of, you know, not only coming to my home, but people were telling her that Shohei was gambling with me. So he didn't even know. He, he caught her, she caught him off guard.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And he, he admitted he said, yes, that's true.

[Matt]

He said gambling, yes. He, he even sent the first wire. So to me, you know, the fact that they re redacted that whole statement and said that, oh, he was lying. He didn't, you know, that's not what he said. I just, I don't know. I mean, I don't, I don't want to, like, it's not like, still, Shohei did nothing wrong. He helped his friend. He let him. If what I think happened is true, he lent him money. Big Deal. What's wrong with that? He's. He's not the one gambling. He can lend somebody money. Money. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. But I think because there's laws, there's a rule for MLB that they cannot wire money to an illegal entity. An illegal bookmaker. I think they just said it's easier for him just to say that he never knew.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

But are you saying. Do you think that Chohei was the actual person gambling partnering with this guy? He was just borrowing or lending money to his friend?

[Matt]

That's my assumption.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

To gamble?

[Matt]

Yes.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

You think it was Ippei who had the gambling problem?

[Matt]

I definitely think that. I do. I. I don't think knowledge of sh. I don't think SH Ever gambled. And I'll tell you why. Number one, I went to a spring training game and SH was on the mound pitching, and bets were flying out on my website. That was my first.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Oh, right.

[Matt]

Yeah. Feeling of, okay, I wanted to know, but I didn't want to ask. And then the second thing is.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Meaning he couldn't be doing two things at once.

[Matt]

He's talented, but that's. That'd be. Wow. But secondly, you gamble and you don't. Like. Like a gambler is a gambler. Like, they don't just start gambling at 30 years old, $40 million. Like, you know, you might bet $10. But he's never been a gambler. Everyone around him will tell you that. So he's never gone to a casino. He's never been on a different sports book or with another bookie. There's. There would be something like that would have came out. I've been gambling since I was 12 years old. So for me to have a story like this, that would make sense, but for, you know, for him. No.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah. These texts that came out between the two of you, between you and Ippei are really interesting. I mean, he is admitting. He says, I'm so sorry, I need more money. I promise I'll pay you. Then it's, I need more. I promise I'll pay you back. And he keeps losing, losing. And he keeps joking about it. He does emojis, laughing and saying, I'm a terrible gambler. And you say, don't worry, buddy. I am too.

[Matt]

I do. I. Because I. I've lost millions of dollars too. I lost $13 million of Resorts World 2023. So I understand. I was getting. Actually, when he was losing, I was. I had the worst run of my life. Because I've always kind of held my own a Little bit. I've always lost gambling. Nobody wins over time. But I've negotiated great deals with my wife being a host. With what I would negotiate through the casinos, I would at least cut the edge down drastically to where maybe the casinos have an edge, but it's very minimal. He didn't have any of that. His was just dumping money. I mean, literally, it was like lighting on a fire. And he laughs about it and we joke about it. It. And he never shows disarray at all.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And so was there a part of you at all that felt bad for this guy that thought, okay, I can't take more money from this dude because he's obviously running himself into a hole here?

[Matt]

Yeah. If you look at some of the texts, I even. I stop him. He wanted more credit. I finally had a stop at $24 million, which is what he owes me to this day, because he kept asking for more credit. And I said, ippe, we gotta have some sort of, like, threshold here. And I'll be honest with you, I gave him a lot of credit a lot of times. Because as a gambler, the one thing you want to do is be able to bet. You want to get down. There's nothing worse than being in Las Vegas or any casino. And you're a junkie, I call it, because it's really what you are. And you want to bet and you have no more money. You might as well. You just want to be home. You don't want to be there. It's the worst place in the world. I don't care if you have nice dinners or shows. You're going to be at a show just thinking about the gambling. So I wanted to give him that opportunity to win some of the money back.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Back.

[Matt]

I actually wanted him to win some of the money back because the number was so high. It was so absurd.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Right.

[Matt]

You know, the one week he won 4.4 million on my website, I was happy for him. Not because I had to pay him, because it went from 8 million down to 3.5 million and it was more reasonable. But then it went right back up, you know? So, yeah. Did I feel sorry for him? Of course. I feel terrible. He's in prison right now. He's a nice man, very kind, very honorable. He was trying to do everything he could. Yes. He committed to. Committed fraud or whatever. I mean, he stole the money. That's what they're saying. I still question that, but I can't. I don't want to call Shohei Ohtani a liar either, because I don't have a relationship with him, and he seems like a very honorable guy, so.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So he's in prison for fraud, not for gambling.

[Matt]

Yeah, he's in prison for the Stealing the money.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Stealing the money.

[Matt]

Correct.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And you think he's just did that as a sort of a favorite to his friend as a favor? Isn't like he was pressured to do that. You either take time in prison, you know, say that. Sure he doesn't know anything about this?

[Matt]

I'll be honest, I'm not sure, because there's a part of me that thinks that he initially borrowed some of the money, like Shohei okayed a wire or two. This is just my assumption, by the way. I have no proof of any of this, but I'm pretty close to closer than most to this situation. Let's be real. I believe that he said, hey, I'm in trouble. I lost a little bit of money, you know, Can I borrow some? Yeah, no problem. You're my transler. You're my best friend. Go ahead. And then he kept tapping into the kitty with. Without maybe telling or asking. That's my opinion. I say that because I'm a degenerate gambler. I know. You know how many times I've been in a casino, Mariana, where I lost my $2 million credit line? They won't give me any more credit. I ask. CNN says no, because they'll do that a lot. And my friend who's sitting right next to me has a $500,000 credit line. He's not as big as gambler as me. And I'll be like, hey, man, you're going to bed.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Give me that credit line.

[Matt]

Give it to me, right? And of course they know I'm going to pay them. I'm honorable I'm going to pay, okay? And they'll give me literally 300,000 or whatever he has in front of him, and I'll take it. And I might lose it all, or I might win it all back. The point is, when you're in that mode, you're not thinking about, oh, I just lost 2 million. Now I'm going to dig into a deeper hole. You're thinking, I'm going to win it back. You don't think about the negative side. You think about the positive side. That's what gambling does, right?

[Mariana Van Zeller]

That's why they call it the hidden addiction, right? Because you can actually be you present normal. It's not like a drug addiction or alcohol addiction. You can go home, you could have lost your house, lost everything you own, but still look kind of normal.

[Matt]

Listen, I've had $2 million on a football game and I've been to my kids volleyball game and I want to throw up because I just lost $2 million. And you would never know. I'm sitting on the sidelines cheering her on, go get a girl. And I'm looking at my phone, I'm looking at the game, I'm just disgusted.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah, and it's also something. Yeah, that sounds horrible. Not something I want to go through. I gambled, I think $5 once at the slot machine in Vegas and I won $5.

[Matt]

I was like, well, you're smart. Yeah, but that's not in your blood.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

It's not like high tolerance for risk. But not that, that's just not my thing.

[Matt]

Well, that's, you're, you're taking educated risk, you know, so. And I respect that. And that's really what I should have done my whole life, right. But I've chosen the, you know, this drug of choice because it really is, it's a hidden addiction is so the best way to describe it. Which is why it's the most deadly one, you know, because like you said, if I was sitting here fumbling my words and I eyes are bloodshot or I'm high, you know, it, you wouldn't even, we wouldn't have this interview.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

This guy needs help. Right?

[Matt]

You'd be like, we're not doing this, you know? Yeah, this guy's a mess.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Exactly. Yeah. It's also interesting, most people don't know this, but unlike if you, you know, the dopamine shot, the happy whatever shot that you get when you take drugs, for example, you only get it if you're taking drugs. But with gambling, you get it whether you lose or you win.

[Matt]

So whatever, it's actually worse. It's even higher, I think when you lose, lose. And people, they don't comprehend that. I've say it all the time. I'm like, this, this makes me sound like a loser. Like, I like losing. Nobody likes losing. I'm very competitive. Most people that gamble are ultra competitive. But when you lose, it's like a extra driving force to win it back. You know what I mean? And, and I hate. My wife will not love the statement because I've said it on a couple podcasts now. It's better than the best sex you'll ever have. Like, it's the euphoric high of a dopamine rush of, of that gambling, win or lose is so like, it's so such a high. I mean, that's why I always was betting more and more and more. In 2023, I bet $4.6 million on the Kansas City Chiefs myself to win the Super Bowl. So it was a 9.5 million dollar, three hour ride that I was on. Okay, So I can't tell you the highs and lows I felt in that three hours because they went into the town. You probably don't remember this game or didn't watch it, but.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Well, I watched it probably, but I remember it.

[Matt]

Bottom line is Patrick Mahomes hurt his ankle, he was hobbling into the thing, and they said he's probably not going to come back out. So I just like washed 4.2, 4.6 total. I bet 4.2 million on the game, and then at halftime, I bet another 400,000 on the same. On the same, knowing he was hurt. And people ask me, why would you do that? I'll tell you why. Because I just lost 4.2 million. So I'm chasing, trying to get some of it back. And all I could get down. And when I say get down, get my hands on was $400,000 to bet second half. So I bet every dollar I could. I had to bet their bookmakers. I was in the Bahamas and I bet. It's on my website. I bet $1.25 million in cash in the Bahamas and then I bet the rest of it through bookies throughout the country. But my point is when he came back out of the tunnel and they came back and won the game and they came out in the last second, I mean, that high is like whatever. Your biggest high you ever can fathom in your life. Wife having a baby or getting married or whatever, all of that. It's the same feeling. I mean, that's a sad truth of what I'm saying, but I'm honest. I mean, the one thing I could tell you is I've had five children. Best moments of my life when they're born, right? Getting married to my wife, one of the best moments. Sadly, some of the best moments are right up there in gambling with these same moments. And that might sound like, ridiculous to someone listening to this.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

No.

[Matt]

But I'm honest. And guess what? My wife would even tell you that we had a moment in Monaco, Monte Carlo, one of the best places in the world. I was gambling. I won $1.4 million and I couldn't lose. I really couldn't lose.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

You're just winning, winning, winning.

[Matt]

I couldn't lose. I was laughing. Wow. And I was laughing to the point where I locked up A million dollars. And I said to her, we've had so much fun. It was the best trip of my life. And we did everything. We're at Jimmy Z's nightclub, Les Grill, one of the nicest restaurants in. And Hotel de Paris. I had a penthouse suite that was $30,000 a night. I'm gambling with Russian oliguards and sheiks, and I'm gambling more than them. And I'm this US Dork who doesn't even have a real business. I mean, it was a business, but you know what I mean? It wasn't like I had. These guys are. They have yachts out front that are more money than anyone in Newport beach ever would fathom, Beverly Hills, whatever. And they're just so rich. Right, right. And I'm antagonizing them. I'm like, come on, let's bet more, you know, and we're just having a blast. But my point is, we were sitting there and she looked at me and she's like, this is one of the best moments of our life. Like, we're having so much fun, you know, it wasn't. Of course, winning was part of it. It was just the euphoric feeling we were having. And it was like we couldn't lose. And I was laughing at the dealers, and they. I was like, I'm going to try to lose this hand. I was drunk and be honest. But it was just. I bet $80,000 and we'd win. So. So it came to the point where we go to the casino every day with a hundred thousand dollars because I just didn't want to dip into the million. So for four days in a row, after I won the million bucks, I locked it up. I would go down there. I'd say, let's just take this a hundred grand. Let's just have fun. We'll just. I'm going to lose it, but let's have a good time, and if we win, we'll go shopping. I go win 80,000.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Wait, what was happening on this trip?

[Matt]

We would just go buy. We bought both our Breitlings. It was like $85,000 watches. Next day, I have a picture on my website. I bought her these Chanel crazy diamond earrings. We. It was like Pretty Woman, but she's not a. She's a My wife. Yeah, Hooker. But I was like, I want you to feel like Julia Roberts did in Pretty Woman. And we laughed about it because we would just go. And Obviously, you know, 80, $60,000 was just. It was like water at that point. And so we won for four days straight, another $400,000, and I never lost. And it was like. The reason I'm mentioning this is like, you know, having my baby come out of my wife, and you're holding your baby. It's like you want to. You know, you're crying. It's like. But this is up there with those feelings, and that's a sad statement, but it's true.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah. I mean, you're making me want to gamble. I want to go to Monte Carlo.

[Matt]

Right now, but there's been some dark ones where I'm in a sauna, and I've just lost $4 million, and my wife is consoling me, and I'm literally. I want to cry like a little girl. Like. Like, literally. I'm not. But I'm sitting there just thinking, what in the am I going to do?

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah. Because that's a problem with your whole operation is, yes, you are making a ton of money, but because of your gambling issues, you are actually also losing a ton.

[Matt]

100. I lost $13 million in a year at a casino, and I couldn't win there. I kept going, and I. I'm not used to losing like that. I've lost, but never that consistently. That much.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And she was just like, what is wrong? And I'm like, like. And then I had that competitive desire. I never lost. I'm like, I'm gonna get it back, you know? And then I just kept losing. And then. Then it came to a point where I just realized I just lost that much money, and I was disgusted with myself. And so there's that dark side of it, too, you know, for sure.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

I mean, what was. I think there's, like, a number that I'd written down earlier on about the 3 million Americans that can't stop gambling. That is gigantic.

[Matt]

Oh, it's. It's wild. And I've seen being through a federal case myself, I've been reached out by so many people, my Instagram, on my social media, because I'm very transparent about my situation, and I think it's resonated with these people.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah. People reach out, saying, I have got gambling problems.

[Matt]

Yes. Yes. They're feeling it, and they feel comfortable to reach out and say, for example, I met a kid in Dallas. I say, kid. He's like, 35. But I went to Dallas during this turmoil. My daughter had a volleyball tournament, and my officer allowed me to travel to be there as a father. So I posted on social media that I was in Dallas, and the guy says, hey, can I Come meet you. I'm like, I'm here to play volleyball or see my kid play volleyball. But you know, sure. So he comes over, we go get coffee and he stole $4.7 million from his friends and family to feed his gambling addiction. And he's going to prison for 64 months. And I feel terrible for him because I could tell he's not a bad person. He's really not. But he made a really bad choice and he should be punished. I agree. I just don't think that's the right punishment for him. He is never going to pay this money back by being in prison. He's not a violent guy. Should he be punished? Absolutely. He stole money, he lied to these people, he told him things to feed his addiction. But let's get him help. Let's get them to work, let's get them to pay these victims back. And even me, like I committed a crime, totally get it. I'll be accountable for that. But is it helping my 4 year old son that I'm going to be in prison that he won't have his dad around for Halloween and Thanksgiving because I was taking illegal bets that are legal in every state almost. I mean, make me pay all the taxes that I didn't pay properly. Find me. Which they did $1.25 million twice. Place two and a half million dollars. I'm paying all that. Restitution. I paid all that. So is it really helping the community? I mean, I even said to the judge, I'll go for eight hours a day and help people with addiction. I'll go have speaking events for free. But me going to prison with a guy next to me that was a pedophile is not really helping the community. And I'm not trying to ask to get out. I'm going, I'm going in 11 days. I just don't think that's the answer. You know, that's just my opinion.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Right. I mean, I guess it could be the answer if prisons work like they are supposed to work. Right?

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Reform, reset and reform. Right. But it's not the case. Right. There's no real, in many cases education in prison.

[Matt]

No. They come out worse most of the time.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Right.

[Matt]

I mean, and they're trying Donald Trump, actually, I'm not a political guy, so I'm not going to go there on this conversation. But he at least has reformed that part of it much better.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah. I mean, we were here, I was talking to Michael Santos, who know us all about this. Yeah. Okay, so then you were running this gigantic Operation. That whole Shohei Ohtani scandal breaks. But that is actually not how you got caught. So tell me about. The government started investigating Resorts World because they knew that there was a lot of people that were making shady money that were everything from, I'm assuming, like drug money, illegal bookmaking, all that. And they were laundering their money through Resorts World.

[Matt]

Correct.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

There's part of this whole story that always sort of. Even when I was doing my story on illegal handling, that always pisses me off, which is the collusion of the casinos.

[Matt]

Right.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

There are legal operations, and they're places where people go to have fun. And people, you know, the owners are making millions money. And yet they, you know, in many ways, you could see that they are responsible for a lot of. They're definitely responsible for a lot of the addiction. And they are also knowingly laundering money and allowing people that make money in shady ways to come.

[Matt]

Yeah, gamble there and gamble there because.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

They'Re making a shit ton of money.

[Matt]

They're aiding and abetting. Right. And that should be a crime in itself. Right?

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So how did you experience that? Tell us, like, very.

[Matt]

Let me ask you a question. If a president or an employee or the entire organization of a casino is knowingly looking the other way and allowing a person like me to come in and gamble, do you feel that it's fair that I have to go to prison, pay $9 million in taxes, 1.7 million in restitution, spent a father of five, go spend a year in prison, and they got a fine for ten and a half million, but they made 25 million off of me and these other bookmakers, so they made 14.5 million and they just carry on. The president did get some issues. He got a $9,500 fine and he had to leave his job.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

The president of the Resorts World. Right.

[Matt]

And I don't believe it all falls on him either. It's not fair. Just like I feel like he was a fall guy for a lot of what happened in Las Vegas. I feel like I'm the fall guy for a lot of the bookmakers and drug dealers and stuff like that. But to answer your question, they raided me because in 2020, they busted a bookmaker in Newport Beach, California. And when they busted him, his name was Wayne Nix, they went through his telephone and they found more evidence, which is what happens in these cases, just like mine, and they find out who you're talking to and conversations. And that led to Resorts World, which at the time was. The president was at mgm. And so they ran that whole Ladder and it led him to Resorts World because he moved from MGM to Resource World. SCOTT SABELLA and again, I don't even think he should be the culprit of all these problems.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

But.

[Matt]

But he was part of it. Let's be honest. He definitely looked the other way. But a casino's job is difficult to marketing side is to bring in business. Compliance side is is who should be really who failed here.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Right. They have to make sure that if you're betting a million dollars in your casino that that money isn't coming from illegal.

[Matt]

Yeah. Know your customer. KYC rule, which is exactly the law that was not being enforced in all of really all of the casinos. Mainly though resorts were world and because.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

They were a new casino and they were trying to bring in new clients, they needed the business, the wheels, which are the people that bring in a lot of money. And a lot of times there are people easy money are making easy money and spending easy money. So they're no doubt shady.

[Matt]

The reason why Las Vegas is struggling numbers wise as far as gaming numbers, gaming revenue is because of this. The KYC rule is now being enforced thoroughly, I would say. I heard there's a rumor that this.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Is the government investigation that you felt correct.

[Matt]

Part of. Over 300 bookmakers were given a courtesy letter saying you're no longer welcome at the casinos because they can't prove their income and pretty much are known bookmakers. And the casinos don't want any more fines or problems. So they're now enforcing the law and the rule.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah. It's interesting. I was just interviewing, I think like a year ago, a guy who sells guns to the cartel, he has a ghost. He makes ghost guns, basically. Which. Do you know what they are? They're unserialized guns that you don't have a serial number. Yeah, they don't have a serial number. And you can make them at home. And he's selling tons of these, making a ton of money selling these two gang members and cartel members and all that. And he launders all his money. When I was asking him, he told me all through casinos he goes to Vegas constantly. And that's where he basically comes in with the cash chips and then goes.

[Matt]

Home with a check and buy a house and a car.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Exactly. So it's still happening.

[Matt]

It is. And sadly mine was the opposite. Mine was reverse money laundering because I use it as a hub for different reasons. Meaning there was a lot of times that I needed cash so I would wire money because I wasn't hiding, you know, really. I Wasn't hiding what I was doing. So I would have wires sent, and then I would. If I needed cash, I would just take home cash. Whereas most people are doing the opposite. They're bringing cash.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Right.

[Matt]

Because they want to put it into the system. I didn't have trouble with that because a lot of my customers were paying through wires, et cetera. And I had no problems with that, but I wanted to. My customers, most of them requested to be paid in cash because they would hide it from their wives or, you know, they didn't want. You know, to be honest. They also were probably doing a lot of dirty stuff on their own taxes. And so if they wrote a check or wire to somebody, they probably wrote it off, you know, as a expense, and then I would give them cash in return. So there's a lot of craziness that.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Was going on because you were using the casinos. Yeah, yeah. It reminds me a little bit of the pharmaceutical companies, actually. Purdue Pharma and yoxy cotton prices and how they were. A lot of people got in trouble and they got slapped on the wrist. They got a slap in the wrist. They had to pay a couple. A few million dollars, but, like, nothing compared to the money that they made from creating this gigantic crisis, you know. So I think there should be more accountability on the side of casinos, and the government should make sure that they're paying what they should pay.

[Matt]

Right, right. Well, and they are now. I mean, believe me, there's no. Casinos are going to be after this. I just don't see them looking the other way. I really don't. Because the fines are getting bigger. The wind got fined $130 million, like eight months ago. 130 million. It took 10 years for that case to go through.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And was it for the same. For accepting money that they knew was.

[Matt]

Yep. I think the guy was embezzling money, sending it, and they lost it gambling at the win. And then, of course, course, they looked the other way.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Right.

[Matt]

And then. So they got fined 130 million.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Right. Yeah. I'm assuming it's also probably difficult to prove these cases. Right. That they. That they. I mean, I guess they should do their homework. I mean, there's a. Compliance.

[Matt]

Yeah, the compliance. It's. It's really. It all boils down to compliance. I mean, I have a lot of casino hosts. One of them just got fired. And it breaks my heart because he's a great guy, and all he was doing was recruiting business and me being one of them.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Him.

[Matt]

And because of my case and me, he lost his job.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

That's why he lost his job.

[Matt]

Yeah. And it's terrible because the person that should be fired is compliance. If I was a casino host, I would go out and get any cartel, drug member, bookie, whatever. I wouldn't care. My job was to bring in business. I mean, of course I would look for regular people too, but I would just bring in business, and I wouldn't really want to know what they did. Just come gamble at our casino and I'll provide a service that's really their job. But they fired him. And I was like, well, why? Why is all the compliance people not being fired? That's their job.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Exactly.

[Matt]

You know, they're supposed to enforce compliance. That's why it's called compliance.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Right?

[Matt]

Yeah. So it was really sad. And I've had two hosts that I know that have been fired because of this case, and they're friends of mine. And it's terrible. And I feel terrible that because of my case, it wasn't because of me directly, but it really kind of was. They lost their job.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

It's always the little people and never the people that actually. The people that should be got in trouble. So tell me, when you did you realize that you were about to get in trouble? Was that. Or did it come bites for us?

[Matt]

Was it. I was putting my son in my wife's car and I heard FBI freeze. And I look over and there's eight guys in tactical gear with AR rifles pointing at him, at me. I had no clue. Zero.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Okay, so you woke up that morning, you're here, you're home. Tell me how that morning.

[Matt]

Yeah, so my. I own a jiu jitsu studio called Risk. And my professor, who I own the business with, we train together. And he came over, he loves my son, he trains him too. And we were just decided to go get coffee and take my son to the park. It was 9:30 in the morning. And I was literally putting him in the car seat. I mean, literally putting the buckle in. And I heard FBI freeze. And I swear I thought it was a joke because I thought it was like one of my friends like coming over or something. And I look over and I just seen literally they obviously in the full tactical gear, and I seen all the guns being pointed at me. I was like, holy. And then they allowed me. They put the guns down because I'm grabbing my son. And I grabbed my son. And then they cuffed my friend because they don't. They just secure the premise. They cuffed him and they separated us. And then they said, who's in the house? Who's in the house? And I'm like, oh, boy. My wife and a painter and someone painting our house. And so all you hear is this yelling, screaming of the guys because they're bulldozing down my garage door because my garage was open. And then maybe two minutes later, I see my wife come out in handcuffs, crying. That's a face that gives me nightmares because she's just the sweetest person in the world. But she comes out of the driveway, and I'm just like, oh, my God. You know, this is my fault, right? And I'm holding my son. I'm trying to make it seem he's only two at the time. I'm trying to make it seem like this is normal. But there's 29 agents. There's 26 men, three women, and a dog.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Do you think he realized what was happening? Was he scared? I mean, he's two, is really young.

[Matt]

But I was actually. Actually making it like a joke, like, with him in a sense of like, oh, yeah, look at all these guys. This is so cool. They're fun. We're all having a good time, and yet my wife's crying, and I'm trying not to let him see that, because that would have set him off. And then, luckily, she was with three of the FBI agents. The women were, you know, frisking her and everything else. And the tactical team was going through the house, and they secure the premise. You know, they're clear. Clear. Making sure every room. There's no weapons and people. And so that took, like, 15 minutes because I have a big house. And then after they did all that, then that team leaves. Leaves, because they're there for. They're definitely in better shape and more serious and younger. And once they leave, then there's probably another 21 of them still there. And they just ransacked the house for eight hours. Tear it apart.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

They tore it apart. They were looking for money or anything they could take.

[Matt]

Any evidence, weapons. I don't have any weapons, but, you know, anything they could. Yeah.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

When you saw them, you realized you knew immediately why they were there.

[Matt]

Yeah. I was raided, actually, nine years earlier at my home, and it was a little different. The outcome was completely different. Actually. That time, there was about 14 of them, and they Also.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

With guns. Also armed.

[Matt]

They came armed, but it wasn't as serious. Yeah, definitely not even close. Close. I cooperated both times, opened the safes, gave them all the money. But this time in 2014, they made a deal with me. They signed abandonment form and that form which I have in my phone, it states that I will not hire an attorney, I will not go after the money, and I will release these funds, and I will not be charged a crime.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

How much money was that then?

[Matt]

It was like 780,000. Just like under a million dollars.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So they were happy with that money, and they said, okay, you're not going to get more trouble. This is it.

[Matt]

I think, to be honest, they were looking. I mean, I know that they were looking to go up the ladder, and they thought I would be a person to give them, but I wasn't willing to do that. And they. I don't think they deemed me as a big enough prize at the time. I had about 350 clients then, and I was 39 years old. And when they left, I went right to Verizon, and I turned my phone on and went right back to work.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Because taking bets again.

[Matt]

I mean, not only did I take bets, I started building my business.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Oh, wow.

[Matt]

Bigger.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Because you realized, I mean, there's no downside here.

[Matt]

I thought, like, this is worst case scenario. I can go make this amount of money and do something I enjoy. Yeah. You know, I'm going to go be the biggest bookmaker in the country.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And then fast forward, what was it, seven years later?

[Matt]

No. So that was nine years later is when they came. And now I had one of the biggest operations in the world as far as volume, and clearly it was much more serious.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

But they weren't after you. They were essentially after the casino.

[Matt]

Yeah. Which they still are. The case is still going.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And did they ask you to cooperate? And did you cooperate?

[Matt]

Well, they wanted information on the casinos. So my attorney. It's funny, we had this argument. She came to my home. I wouldn't speak at all to any.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Anyone.

[Matt]

And then I hired her. She came over my house, and she walked in. She's like, oh, this is a beautiful home. She's like, are you going to cooperate? And I said, no. And she said, well, just get ready to move out then. And my wife starts crying. I'm like, wow, that's aggressive. And I said, can you explain that a little further? And she's like, if you're not going to cooperate, you just admitted that you're dead. Like, as far as your case, I have nothing to fight. It's all in my phone. I said, it's not that I'm not going to cooperate. I'll plead guilty. That's just. I'm not going to give up my people. And she said, well, then that's not going to fly. And I said to her, I said, diane, this is right at the beginning of a relationship. I said, let me tell you something. If I have to do prison time, then I'll do prison time, but I'm not going to give up all my people. It's just. I'm not doing it. It's my operation. If anyone should get in trouble, it's me. And she said, well, it doesn't work that way with the feds. Can't just select who you talk about and who you. They don't. And I said, well, I'll make you a deal. They obviously, when they came, they pulled my wife aside because, as I told you, she was a casino host, independent rep. And they tried to get her to talk and she wouldn't. But they said, we're here for Resorts World. We want to know what you know about Resorts World. So I kind of knew that this case was about that. Right. So I said to Diane, I said, why don't you tell them that I will discuss my operations through the casino and only the casino and nobody in my telephone. She's like, they're not going to go for that.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

You were trying to protect the people that worked me for. For you, the agent.

[Matt]

I was trying to protect anyone in my phone.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Anyone from place bets or your customers.

[Matt]

Yeah, customers, agents, all the above. Because a lot of times in these cases, the agents all get busted and they end up taking literally a felony. And I was like, you know, these guys are low level people. I mean, some of them have families, they have a job. They just do this on the side for some additional money. And I'm not saying it makes it right, but I just didn't want my operation to hurt them, so I wasn't willing to do that. So she goes, it's not going to fly, but I'll try. And then she called and the prosecutors agreed. Agreed that. That they would do that. Wow.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And so you never. So you never talked about the people in your.

[Matt]

No. And. And this is, this is why I was telling you earlier. Epay, Ms. Zahara, we're allowed to talk about my phone and the people on my phone other than casino. So that's why I never came out until it came out. ESPN came to my house and then I realized that that was going to be on the ESPN Sports center in the next few weeks. So I told my attorney, I said, what do we do? And she says, you got to go tell the government.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So is he the only customer you ever had that you went and talked to the government. About the only one.

[Matt]

The only one. And I got cooperation credit for disclosing that to the United States government because they would have found out, obviously, if they were ESPN or whatever. And so that's what lowered my charges.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Did you ever talk to him about the fact. Did you tell him that you were about to go to government until on him.

[Matt]

They. They actually contacted him, I would think the FBI. I told them. And see, January is when Tisha Thompson came to me. And within a few days, we went and spoke to them, and then they contacted him pretty much immediately. And the truth be told, no, I didn't have a direct conversation.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

What was the last conversation you had with him? Text. Right.

[Matt]

Yeah, the text. And then he actually asked for my attorney, and I gave him my attorney.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

He wanted to be represented by your attorney?

[Matt]

He wanted. He was going to try, but she wasn't allowed. Allowed to.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So the last text you had with him, he knew he was in trouble?

[Matt]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. It already. All that had.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Oh, right. Because it was the text that you actually said. And he says, technically, where he was.

[Matt]

I screwed up. He says, technically, I screwed up. But after that, I did speak to him again, that was maybe two weeks later, about trying to connect him with Diane, my attorney. And then he. He did contact her, but she wasn't allowed to represent him.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

How much time? What is he doing in prison?

[Matt]

57 months.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Wow. So much more than you.

[Matt]

Yeah. Only because he stole the money.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Right.

[Matt]

And obviously, when you have. I don't have any theft or victims. He is a victim. Shohei Ohtani. My only victim, technically, was the irs, but I paid them in restitution.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And I'm assuming you're not going to the same prison where he is at.

[Matt]

No, because he's in Pennsylvania. I'm reporting to Lompoc, which is about three hours from here.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

You just said nobody was actually harmed.

[Matt]

Harmed, correct.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Your operation. But that's not completely true. Right. Because we have spoken here about gambling addiction.

[Matt]

Oh, no, no doubt. Let me interrupt you. When I say harmed, I mean nobody violence or physically harmed. Definitely. People were hurt. You know, I had so many people that lost way more money than they could afford to. That's why I say I'm very clear. I'm not an angel. I don't pretend. It's not like I. I was saving a child from a church fire. I mean, believe me, I wish I was. I definitely was monetizing off of people's gambling and some gambling addiction. But I want to be clear that I also have the Same addiction. So I know exactly what people were going through. They were going to bet with me. And this is going to sound like an excuse. If they didn't bet with me, they're going to bet with somebody else. And that doesn't make it right.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

It doesn't sound like an excuse. But I have to tell you, it does sound exactly like what people selling drugs that I've spoken to, drug traffickers tell me. If I don't traffic those drugs, somebody else will.

[Matt]

Because if you got rid of every drug dealer and every bookie, then there would be none. There would. That excuse wouldn't fly. But what I'm saying to you is that they would be betting somewhere else anyway. That doesn't make it right. I still committed a crime. I'm accountable for it. I'm going to prison for it. And I've paid all the money that I owe. I'm still going to be paying taxes for the next umpteen years. Years. That's going to be an issue I have to address. But do I feel good about it? No. I could have chose so many other careers. Do I feel like I manipulated and took advantage of people? Of course I did. You know, there's no other way to say it. I made money off of people losing gambling. No different than a casino. No different than FanDuel. No different than DraftKings. But at the end of the day, that's a business I chose. That's what's great about my next move in life.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

I was going to go there. Yeah. Because we're at that moment, right?

[Matt]

Yeah. And that moment is fantastic for me. So at 48 years old. Old, I was empty because I was making millions and millions of dollars. I have a beautiful wife, amazing connection. I have beautiful children. They're raised. I mean, I'm very blessed with who they are.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Incredible house, incredible life.

[Matt]

I have everything. I have all of them. But I was very empty because I was doing something that I really didn't feel was 100% on board. Number one, I had to look over my shoulder. And then also, I'm contributing to a problem. So that's the reality of the situation. So every business I've ever been in, which I described to you earlier, commodities and bookmaking, it's win, lose. Someone on the other side is losing. This is the first time in my life where it's win, win. I just did my first public speaking event last week.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Nice.

[Matt]

85 employees. When I walked out, they gave me a standing ovation. I motivated people. I inspired them.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

What is the Message. The main message.

[Matt]

The main message for me is called recalibrate. Yeah. I wrote this book. It tells the dark moments of my life. You know, most people glorify their life. They get on social media and they show you how great they are and yet they're having an affair. Or, you know, it's, it's just, it's, it's all fake. I'm not fake. I'm not perfect. I talk about being imperfect. I talk about being in moments where I can't pay people. I talk about gambling addiction where I lose money and I owe bookies and I don't even know how to pay them, but I figure it out. Or not being able to pay someone. I mean, these are conversations that people don't really want to say or do that they've been in. But the message now is I want to make an impact on the world. I want to inspire people. I want to show them when you have adversity. I'm 11 days from walking into prison. What am I doing? I'm standing here with you. I should be home with my family. People say, well, I will be as soon as I'm done with her.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

But I thank you for being here with me.

[Matt]

But the point is, someone listening to this might change their life. And it doesn't have to be gambling addiction. It could be alcohol, it could be porn, it could be cheating on their husband or wife. It could be so many things that we all have addictions that are floating around. Or it could be someone stuff that.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

You do wrong in life. Just like making mistakes. The more open you are about it, the better. Because everybody makes mistakes, right?

[Matt]

That's right. Nobody's perfect. And you know, here's the thing. If you are a person that doesn't want to take risk, I would pursue you to take some risk. Educated, smart risk. But you know, some people are afraid to get on social media. Here I was a 48 year old man with 5 kids, never been on social media in my life. And what do I do? I just grab a phone and I start going on social media. Now I have 85,000 followers. It's growing rapidly. And I'm making an impact on the world. I mean, helping people.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And you've decided to do that because you want to make an impact and you want to reach people with your message.

[Matt]

Yeah. And I don't expect anyone to, you know, to, to listen to this or watch this and say, oh, this guy thinks he's, you know, holier than thou or any. It's not even about that. Like I've made so many mistakes in my life and I, I'm okay with that. Like that's why I am who I am. But if, if I can help somebody and become a better human being because that's all I'm trying to do. When I walk into prison, it's to me it's a vacation. It's a vacation to reset. I mean, that sounds crazy, but that's my mindset. I have to go learn from my adversity. I have to go dig into this suck, this moments of suck, but I deserve that. So I'll just go deal with it. And it's gonna be hard. It's gonna be hard missing my 4 year old boy and my 14 year old daughter who's been crying the last seven days. And we had Halloween two nights ago. You know, we're walking around the neighborhood and luckily my mom set up trick or treating.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

You did Halloween early because you're going to prison.

[Matt]

Correct. And so these are things that I have to process. I have to go home as a father and say, you know, know what? What a loser you're not. Your job as a father is to provide and protect. And I feel like a deadbeat that I can't sit here and, and do that for my family for the next six to eight months or however long I'm in there. But I gotta look in the mirror and own that. The choices. When I was on a private jet, eating caviar, betting $4 million on a football game, I chose that.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So yeah, you need to choose this too.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Yeah. You're also an example to your kids about accountability. Right? And using the mistakes you've made in life as an example for others.

[Matt]

Others sure.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

About how to be better.

[Matt]

Listen, sometimes it's not the mistake you make, it's what you do after that matters the most. I mean, depending on what the mistake is, it can't be so, you know, you don't go kill someone or anything. But like I, I, I definitely made a lot of poor choices, but I think who I am now. I'll still make poor choices, but they'll be much more assessed. I'll make sure that the risk and the, the whatever I choose to do is going to be calculated much better. But my kids are going to learn like adversity. What do you do? You run into the fire. You don't run away from it. You don't back down from situations. You own it. You be accountable. You teach yourself more than the people around you. And the stronger I become, because I've always had a great mindset. I've always known I can make a lot of money. So the next 10 years of my life, I'll make more than I made the first 50 years. I've probably made 50, 60 million dollars in my lifetime. I know I can make more than that in 10 years. That may sound crazy, a guy who was a felon, can't get a license, doesn't really have anything to come home to, but. But I do. I've been building a little brand, I've been building things up. And I know what I can do.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Right. Your message resonates with a lot of things. I believe making a lot of money less. Because what I stand for, although I.

[Matt]

Do like making money too.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

But I think, I think the idea that, that you can, you can, you ran this illegal operation or whatever you do in a criminal activity, you can either hide it and make excuses for yourself and, you know, blame other people and pretend this never happened. And that can be the example that you share with your kids, or you can decide, I'm gonna shine the biggest light on this, on my example and make this an example that can, you know, impact other people positively and can be an example for my kid. And I think that's something that Justin Paperni, who I interviewed also, who you know as well, spoke to about a lot because I'm a strong believer in that idea of like, not I hate shame around even. I think I gave him this example. Even. I'm gonna tell you it's a small story, but. But whenever I've made mistakes, I always like to talk about the mistakes. And I make mistakes often. My son recently made a huge mistake, made a really stupid mistake, and he was afraid. Do I tell the school that this happened? And I was like, yes, go out there, tell all your colleagues, tell the school, make this an example for you. I can't tell you what it is because it's not my story to tell. But make sure that the other people learn from the stupid mistake that you make. And I think a lot of people, of times the instinct is like, just, let's put it under the rug and pretend. Hide it and pretend that this didn't happen. Because who wants to live with that shame? Sure, but what do you do with that, with those bad moments in life.

[Matt]

When you hide it, it's worse because you're living with it when you set yourself free. And to your point, what you said earlier, which is funny, I think I've gotten the most shit for that, which is I keep talking about money Sorry I said that. No, I'm glad you did. I want to drive, address it. Have you ever suffered financially in your life? No. Yeah. So I think that's why I say that, because usually people that judge that comment haven't really felt the suffering for sure.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And let me just tell you, my problem is not you wanting to make money. That's perfectly valid. And a lot of people do, and quite frankly, I do, too. It's more that when we're talking about your reinvention and the impact that you want to have in life. Life is, yes, I can make money. And I want to make sure that that money is somehow used for your lifestyle, but also used in a way that I can impact. Well, whether it's educating people with gambling addiction. And that's the part that I wanted to focus more on.

[Matt]

Oh, no, I get it. And you are correct. Like the impact. Listen, if you do something you're passionate about and you impact the world, you're winning. You're rich. Right. The only thing I can say is that because I've watched my mom suffer and lose home working, three jobs, you know, kidney dialysis technician, and just lose everything. And so I think for me, I've just never wanted to put my wife and kids through that. And even though I'm going to prison, which is probably worse, let's be real, I'm not even going to be around. So I talk about that. That's why I felt like a deadbeat dad for what I'm going through. But what I'm going to come back and do will be so powerful. But I know I'm going to make more money because of the reason I'm doing it, the impact that I'm making. So making money has never been a struggle for me, but now I have something behind it that's even more passionate, more powerful. So do I really care if it's $100 million or 10 million? Probably not, but I just. It's more of like, I'm a very competitive, egotistical guy. Some people even say I'm a narcissist, but with the ones who don't like me on my Instagram. But I'm okay with that.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

He's very competitive, too. Known to be egotistical.

[Matt]

Yeah. So I'm okay with that. I think people who are ultra successful are a little bit egotistical.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

So I'm not sure if egotistical is the word. Egocentric. I would say. Yeah, I like. I like talking about myself and the.

[Matt]

Stuff that I do. Hey, if it motivates you and you, you know, at the end of the day, I mean, I. I think we all have to find ways to use your mindset to be stronger and motivate yourself. And you know that there's. There's a positive in that.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Well, this has been a wonderful conversation. I really enjoyed it. Thank you for being so honest with us and having this discussion about what does money matter for? And I really, really appreciate it.

[Matt]

I appreciate you having me.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Thank you.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

You're one of the first 10 guests on the Hidden Third.

[Matt]

Oh, perfect. Well, hopefully I'll be your best. There's my ego.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

There's your competitive side.

[Matt]

I love it. Thanks. Pleasure. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. When I was there, you had to have a knife. One of you's got to take turns carrying it up your rectum.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

Wait, it's up your butt.

[Matt]

That's the prison wallet. You never leave home alone.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

And you have something protected around it, I'm assuming.

[Matt]

Yeah. Or else you'll be bleeding out your coolo.

[Mariana Van Zeller]

I'm Mariana Van Zeller, and after reporting on black markets for my Emmy winning National Geographic show, Traffikt, I'm launching a podcast. You're getting emotional on me. Intimate conversations with those operating in the shadows. The Hidden Third is out now with new episodes every Wednesday. [e-mail] mariannavanzeller Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.