Podcast Summary: "Embezzler Turned Prison Entrepreneur"

The Hidden Third with Mariana van Zeller
Episode Date: December 17, 2025
Guest: Justin Paperni (Former stockbroker, prison consultant, and advocate for criminal justice reform)

EPISODE OVERVIEW

This episode explores the hidden world of white-collar crime through the remarkable journey of Justin Paperni—a stockbroker turned embezzler, who after serving time in prison, reinvented himself as a leading prison consultant and advocate for criminal justice reform. With honesty and unusual candor, Justin recounts how he fell from success, the mechanics and rationalizations of his crime, his time in prison, and how he's now helping others through his consulting firm. The conversation is a deep dive into personal accountability, systemic failings in finance and justice, and the path to redemption.

KEY THEMES & DISCUSSION POINTS

1. Justin Paperni’s Background and the Path to White-Collar Crime

• Upbringing and Early Ambition
  • Raised in privilege in Encino, LA; parents and coaches instilled values, discipline, accountability (03:04-04:35).
  • “Nothing in my past that would suggest someday, like, I'm going to prison.” (Justin, 03:23)
• Entry into Brokerage Industry
  • Driven by ambition, influence of “wrong corporate culture” and idolizing the wrong people.
  • Did not follow advice from his cousin at Goldman Sachs, who warned: “Don’t be a stockbroker. They’re nothing more than a used car salesman.” (07:21)
• First Steps Toward Crime
  • Initially worked honestly; driven by the perception of success as much as financial need (09:13).
  • Disillusionment with sales-oriented, cutthroat brokerage environment.
  • “I felt exploited.” (21:13)
  • Decision to leave Merrill Lynch and start anew at a smaller firm.
  • Later joined a partnership, which became fraught with resentment over credit and reward.

2. Mechanics & Rationalizations of White-Collar Embezzlement

• Discovering and Exploiting a System Glitch
  • Angry at being denied a raise, Justin finds a way to route 100% of commissions to himself rather than the agreed 25%; repeats act over 15–20 trades (22:47-27:24).
  • “If you look hard enough, you could always find a glitch. If you feel as if you've been harmed, exploited or wronged, you can always find a way.” (22:50)
  • “It was sickening. It was disgusting. I'll never forget it to the day that I drop dead.” (23:22)
• Rationalizing Unethical Choices
  • Stuck in a cycle—feeling harmed leads to entitlement, which leads to wrong action.
  • Cites Nietzsche: “The value of something isn’t what you attain with it, it’s what it costs you.” (24:41)
• Further Crimes at UBS
  • Transfers to UBS with a lucrative bonus; pressure to perform leads to taking on a dubious client (“Keith,” a hedge fund manager with track record of fraud).
  • Justin helps develop and circulate indemnification letters to shield himself and UBS from liability, focusing on self-preservation rather than protecting clients (35:11-36:08).

3. The Unraveling: Investigation, Prosecution, and Sentencing

• The Downfall

  • A forged letter triggers the investigation—a client fakes Justin’s signature on a document falsely guaranteeing fund safety (41:55-44:02).
  • Justin tries to deflect blame, but the scheme is exposed.
  • “It was too late. It was done.” (44:17)

• Federal Investigation and Denial

  • Interactions with FBI agents are marked by denial and obfuscation (48:20-54:55).
  • Lies to both lawyer and FBI about his involvement: “You hire lawyers and then lie to them.” (51:54)
  • Downfall is confirmed when his partner Keith becomes a government cooperator, pleading guilty to conspiracy and implicating Justin.

• Emotional Fallout

  • Justin describes devastation, numbness, and self-pity during the process.
  • “I spent my 40s making up for bad decisions of my 20s and 30s.” (41:55)
  • “There’s a consequence from not doing what you’re trained to do. There should be a punishment, a lifelong stain that accompanies bad choices.” (37:39)

• Sentencing

  • Pleads guilty to conspiracy to commit securities fraud; receives 18 months in federal prison, three months in halfway house, three years’ probation (63:49-65:15).
  • Victims in court express satisfaction at his imprisonment.
  • “Even though they got their money back, it doesn’t replace the shame and pain they went through.” (65:22)

4. Prison Life and Transformation

• Early Days: Resentment and Isolation
  • Justin describes prison camp as “big boy timeout”; comes in still regarding himself as a victim (67:04-68:48).
• Mentorship from Michael Santos
  • Guided by Michael Santos (serving 45-year sentence for a drug offense), who emphasizes the importance of preparing for life after prison.
  • “You should probably reevaluate how you serve your time.” (75:17)
  • Justin begins to blog daily, finding unexpected purpose, connection, and outside support (77:27-79:31).
  • “Michael encouraged me to begin documenting my journey... create assets that don’t exist.” (77:27)
• Building Toward Redemption
  • Authored book, Lessons from Prison, with guidance from Santos.
  • “I began to learn every day from Michael... and began to develop what is now White Collar Advice.” (81:46)

5. The Prison Consulting Industry and Criminal Justice Reform

• What is Prison Consulting?

  • “All of the media I've done all over the world, they would introduce me as a federal prison consultant... I'm not a consultant. I am his [Michael Santos’s] ambassador, his best student.” (91:30-92:24)
  • Details White Collar Advice’s model: offering free resources and focusing on creating “assets”—documentation, education, mitigation—for clients.
  • Consultants primarily help with mitigation, sentencing prep, and post-prison life; majority of clients are white-collar and well-resourced, but also includes anyone seeking reform (84:05).
  • “You don't pay for consulting. It's a waste of money. We give it away for free.” (93:53)

• Reform & Philanthropy

  • White Collar Advice is for-profit, but a portion of proceeds funds Prison Professors, a nonprofit delivering educational and reform programs in prisons and jails (90:14-91:20).
  • “The nonprofit funds all of it, and I fund it too, through White Collar Advice.” (88:21)

• Change and Stigma

  • Discusses imbalance in criminal justice, impact of privilege, and two-tier system.
  • “There is a change in this country, I believe. Four or five, six years ago... there’s no doubt.” (71:50-72:13)
  • Heavy stigma for ex-convicts; Justin advocates for radical transparency as the only way out of shame (102:22-106:10).
  • “The way you overcome and you run towards the shame.” (106:08)

6. Systemic Failings and Broader Impact

• The Business of Incarceration

  • US spends $80–$87 billion annually on corrections (73:05-73:32).
  • “There’s a huge ecosystem that employs case managers, counselors, wardens, people who work within the prison. It's, it's really big business.” (73:52)

• Prison Conditions and Reform

  • Mariana cites the HBO documentary “Alabama Solution,” highlighting inhumane state prison conditions and lack of empathy from public/officials (107:36-110:43).
  • Justin: “Even when you’re in prison, there are basic rights that you should be able to live with dignity.” (110:14)

• Best Practices for Change

  • Focus on building values and skills during incarceration for successful reentry.
  • Emphasizes incremental, authentic effort over empty talk.
  • “It is hard work. It requires someone to say, like, I'm going to start creating something today.” (127:39)

MEMORABLE QUOTES & MOMENTS

• On rationalizing crime:
  • “If you look hard enough, you could always find a glitch. If you feel as if you've been harmed, exploited or wronged, you can always find a way.” (Justin, 22:50)
• On the cost of wrongdoing:
  • “The value of something isn’t what you attain with it, it’s what it costs you.” (Nietzsche quote, 24:41)
• Facing the stigma:
  • “There’s a consequence from not doing what you’re trained to do. There should be a punishment, a lifelong stain that accompanies bad choices.” (37:39)
• Prison as sabbatical:
  • “It's not really 18 months or two years in minimum security camp... it’s kind of a sabbatical in many ways. As much as people hate hearing that, it's like, don't blame me. I didn't build the prisons in this country. I'm doing the best with what we have.” (38:01)
• On authenticity and redemption:
  • “I’m not a consultant... I am [Michael Santos’s] ambassador, I am his best student, and these are the lessons we teach... We give everything away for free.” (91:40)
• On building a new life:
  • “If you can do it on your own, you should. You need to start immediately. You're late because the government's working full time to build their narrative of you.” (93:31)
• On hard-earned success:
  • “There's nothing more rewarding than not bullshitting and not telling people to do what you haven't done done. That's what's rewarding.” (118:38)

TIMESTAMPS FOR MAJOR SEGMENTS

• Early Life, Upbringing, and Career Start: 03:04 – 10:07
• Ethical Decline, Merrill Lynch and Bear Stearns: 12:01 – 24:40
• Committing Fraud, Rationalizations: 22:47 – 27:24
• UBS, Hedge Fund Client, Indemnification Letters: 28:08 – 39:45
• Collapse & Investigation: 41:55 – 54:55
• Plea, Sentencing, and Impact on Identity: 63:49 – 67:22
• Prison Life, Santos’s Influence, Building New Purpose: 67:35 – 81:46
• Creation & Philosophy behind White Collar Advice: 82:00 – 91:40
• On Prison Consulting vs. Authentic Reform: 91:30 – 93:53
• Justice System, Privilege, and Broader Economic Realities: 73:05 – 74:53
• Ethics, Empathy, and Conditions in US Prisons: 107:36 – 112:40
• Reflection, Regret, and Redemptive Cold-Calling: 121:49 – 128:52

FINAL REFLECTIONS

Mariana and Justin close with a powerful message about the complexity of accountability, the need for empathy in reform, and the redemptive power of honest self-inventory and incremental change. Justin’s story is both a cautionary tale and a blueprint for transformation—showing how the worst moments can be harnessed into authentic service for others, and how even in a hyper-punitive system, it’s possible to build a new narrative and “engineer” a better future.

Listen for:

• Raw admissions about the emotional cost of white-collar crime
• Eye-opening details of the US prison industry and consulting “business”
• The untold afterlife of conviction: reputation, restitution, and rebuilding
• Hard lessons in self-awareness, humility, and advocacy

For resources or information on justice reform and white-collar advice:

• White Collar Advice
• Prison Professors