The Hidden Third with Mariana van Zeller

Episode: From Cocaine Trafficker to Prison Reformer
Guest: Michael Santos
Date: October 22, 2025

Episode Overview

This compelling episode of The Hidden Third features Michael Santos, a former cocaine trafficker sentenced to 45 years in federal prison, who later emerged as a leading prison reform advocate. Host Mariana van Zeller delves deeply into Santos’s journey: his descent into the drug trade, the psychological and practical realities of long-term incarceration, the transformative power of education, and his passionate work today to change the U.S. prison system from within. Santos’s firsthand insights challenge common narratives about crime, punishment, and redemption, while revealing the mechanisms of a system that, in his view, “warehouses humanity.”

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Life and Descent into Crime

• Background: Michael grew up in Lake Forest Park, a Seattle suburb after his father immigrated from Cuba (01:38). As a young man, Michael became bored with school and uninterested in taking over the family business.
• Entry into Drug Trade: A friend's casual discussion about “snorting cocaine” introduced him to drug dealing (03:09). Influenced by pop culture—particularly the movie Scarface and the TV series Miami Vice—Michael was drawn to the lifestyle and glamorized depiction of drug trafficking (03:41-04:38).
• First Big Deal: At just 20 years old, Michael orchestrated his first cocaine buy using $100,000 from his family’s construction business under false pretenses (06:04-06:42).

“Around that time, this movie Scarface came out… That was what exposed me to this idea of drug trafficking. It was 1984.”
— Michael Santos (03:09)

2. Drug Trade Operations

• Expansion: Michael rapidly scaled up, recruiting friends to transport cocaine from Miami to Seattle, motivated by the large price markup (07:07).
• Living Large: With the proceeds, he lived extravagantly—boats, cars, travels, and clubs—eventually even moving to Marbella, Spain, to escape detection (09:00-11:54).
• The Fall: The arrest of an associate prompted Michael to flee the U.S. temporarily, but feeling isolated, he returned after a lawyer assured him he wasn't under investigation (11:54-12:51).

3. Arrest, Trial, and Conviction

• The Arrest: Michael was indicted and arrested in Miami (13:47-15:21).
• Legal Missteps: He brought a Miami lawyer to his Seattle trial, which, he notes, likely increased suspicion (16:28).
• Solitary Confinement: Awaiting trial, Michael spent a year in solitary—ironically, he credits this isolation for shielding him from the negative influence of prison culture (17:05-19:23).

“I always say to them, anybody who tells you that [to forget the outside world in prison] is not your friend... It’s going to teach you how to live in prison, which simultaneously means how to fail in society.”
— Michael Santos (19:23)

• Conviction: Michael was found guilty on all counts, resulting in a 45-year sentence (21:14-23:13).

4. Turning Point: Education & Self-Transformation

• An Officer's Kindness: Officer Wilson provided Michael with books—beginning with Frederick Douglass’ biography—which triggered an intellectual awakening (28:02-29:34).
• Inspiration from Philosophy: Reading Plato, particularly the stories of Socrates (the Crito and the allegory of the cave), led Michael to accept responsibility and devise a plan to transform his life through education, societal contribution, and building a support network (29:52-33:19).

“Socrates helps me to get that message… Is there anything I can do while I’m in here, anything that would cause people to see me not for the bad decisions that I made, but how I responded to them?”
— Michael Santos (31:37)

• Setting Goals: Even as he processed a staggering sentence (“45 years; I’ll get out when I’m 68”), Michael plotted to get a degree, publish writing, and earn the belief of people who didn’t know him before (33:19-35:24).

5. Life in High-Security Prison

• Prison Hierarchies: On arrival at Atlanta penitentiary, Michael found himself amid mafia figures and quickly realized that alliances and “protection” were essential for survival (41:05-42:01).

• Everyday Reality: He navigated prison politics and racial divides, and, by keeping to positive routines (early gym sessions, work in the prison business office, and education), he minimized exposure to violence (44:26-46:11).

• The Infamous “Prison Wallet”:

"That’s the prison wallet. You’ll never leave home alone."
— Michael Santos (00:06, and recurring joke at 43:55)

6. Educational Achievement & Building Connections

• Persistence Pays: Michael sent hundreds of letters to universities before securing a Pell Grant and enrolling at Ohio University for a degree in human resources management (46:26-47:49).
• Mentors: Despite no formal teachers, he forged relationships with university professors—who became mentors, visited him in prison, and guided his writing (48:29-50:07).
• Advanced Studies: Law schools rejected him, but a chance with Hofstra University led him to study cultural anthropology—viewing prisons through the lens of ethnography (53:02-54:17).

7. Writing, Investment, and Financial Success

• Becoming an Author: Michael authored chapters for textbooks and academic books about prison, eventually writing for broader audiences (Inside: Life Behind Bars in America, 77:30).
• Stock Market Success: With royalties received, he instructed his sister on outside investment, turning a $2,000 check into more than $300,000 through investments in AOL and Yahoo, even coaching a wealthy fellow inmate’s investments to mutual profit (59:01-66:19).

“I leveraged and I made a million dollars in prison… starting with $2,000.”
— Michael Santos (61:17)

8. Relationships and Humanity Behind Bars

• Finding Love: Reconnected through a high school reunion search, Michael began corresponding with Carol—initially a critic—who eventually became his wife (66:21-70:39).
• Relationships in Prison: He reflects on the role of romantic attention and companionship for incarcerated men, and acknowledges the prevalence of inmate relationships with staff and the loneliness that drives these dynamics (74:03-75:26).

“All I wanted was to be a man. And a man sometimes is defined by having a woman… and that was so important all through prison.”
— Michael Santos (74:44)

9. Path to Release & Advocacy

• Serving Time Smartly: Systematically avoided disciplinary infractions to retain “good time,” ultimately serving 26 years (76:36-77:28).
• Transition: On release, Michael leveraged his network and credibility to become a criminal justice professor at San Francisco State University—a rarity among former felons (80:20).

10. Prison Reform and Prison Professors

• Central Philosophy: Santos fervently believes that prisons should be judged not by “calendar pages turned,” but by the result of a safer society. He designed Prison Professors as a program that incentivizes rehabilitation through education, self-reflection, writing, and goal-setting (85:21-89:49).
  • Structured Program: Encourages self-authored biographies, daily journals, book reports, and release plans, all tracked by a competitive points system.
  • Goal: Prepare inmates for successful re-entry, with a year’s worth of savings and professional skills; currently scaling to reach 10,000 participants (87:09-88:08).
  • Community and Advocacy: By documenting progress, Santos can approach employers (like Home Depot) to hire ex-offenders and show government agencies the benefits of his approach (89:51-91:33).

"I make three promises. I’ll never lie to you. I’ll never ask you to do something I didn’t do. And I’ll never ask you to pay a penny—everything’s free.”
— Michael Santos (88:08)

• On Government vs. Citizen-led Reform:

“I don’t believe the government should solve problems. We should—citizens.”
— Michael Santos (90:23)

• On Changing Public Perceptions:

"You've got to get people to see the world differently. And that's my role, okay? Is to try and have people see it differently."
— Michael Santos (84:43)

11. Legacy & Impact

• Mentorship: Santos’s influence stretches beyond his personal success—such as mentoring figures like Justin Paperni, who went on to become a reform advocate himself (91:33-92:15).
• Enduring Optimism: Despite a system that "obliterates hope,” Michael remains optimistic and driven to create scalable change, supporting inmates to take control of their narratives and futures (84:49, 89:51).

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Pop culture’s impact:
  “That was what exposed me to this idea of drug trafficking. It was 1984.” (03:09, Michael Santos)
• Survival in Prison:
  “Anybody who tells you that [to forget about the world outside] is not your friend. They are not your friend. If you're getting that message, it's going to teach you how to live in prison, which simultaneously means how to fail in society.” (19:23, Michael Santos)
• Intellectual awakening:
  “He brought me this book and it was a biography of Frederick Douglass… And I read this book… And for those who don’t know Frederick Douglass... he was born during the era of slavery, and that's all he knew was being enslaved.” (28:02, Michael Santos)
• Transformation through reading:
  “Socrates helps me to get that message of, well, Socratic thinking, asking questions. And so I start asking questions... is there anything I can do while I'm in here?” (31:37, Michael Santos)
• On the impact of long sentences:
  “The longer we expose people to corrections, the less likely people are to function in society as law-abiding citizens.” (51:24, Michael Santos)
• On government’s role in reform:
  “I don't believe the government should solve problems. We should—citizens.” (90:23, Michael Santos)
• Philosophy of redemption:
  "Be the CEO of your life. Don’t let the system define you. Be better.” (89:47, Michael Santos)
• On relationships in prison:
  “All I wanted was to be a man. And a man sometimes is defined by having a woman… and that was so important all through prison.” (74:44, Michael Santos)

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Event | |-------------|----------------------------------------------------| | 01:38 | Michael’s early life and family background | | 03:09-04:38 | Scarface, Miami Vice, and influence of media | | 06:04-07:56 | First major drug buy and operation strategy | | 11:54-12:51 | Flight to Spain and return to US | | 13:47-15:21 | Arrest, pretrial period, solitary confinement | | 17:05-19:23 | Solitary and mindset in pretrial detention | | 21:14-23:13 | Conviction on all counts, reaction | | 28:02-29:34 | Books that changed Michael’s life | | 31:37-33:19 | Developing a personal plan for redemption | | 41:05-42:01 | Mafia in prison, questions of loyalty, alliances | | 46:26-47:49 | Securing an education in prison (Ohio University) | | 53:02-54:17 | Studying ethnography, role of cultural anthropology| | 59:01-66:19 | Investments, publishing, and amassing wealth | | 66:21-70:39 | How he met Carol, romance, and marriage | | 76:36-77:28 | Sentence calculation; path to release | | 80:20-82:34 | Becoming a professor, public speaking, advocacy | | 85:21-89:49 | The Prison Professors program and its aims | | 90:23-91:33 | Discussion on government vs. citizen responsibility|

Conclusion

Michael Santos’s story, candidly and energetically shared in this episode, is a window into both the destructiveness and transformative potential found within America’s criminal justice system. Through family, philosophy, education, entrepreneurship, and compassion, Michael transcended his mistakes to become an agent of change. Now, his work aims to help thousands of incarcerated people write new endings for their own stories, and to persuade society to rethink how it defines punishment, redemption, and justice.

Learn more: prisonprofessors.org

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