← The Hidden Third
The Hidden Third
From Prisoner to Actor | The Hidden Third with Mariana van Zeller
02:07:27
Pro skater and actor Fabian Alomar takes Mariana from L.A.’s skate scene to years in a high-security prison.
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- [00:00]
A
When I was there, you had to have a knife. One of you's got to take turns carrying it up your rectum.
- [00:05]
B
Wait, it's up your butt.
- [00:06]
A
That's the prison wallet. You'll never leave home alone.
- [00:08]
B
You have something protected around it, I'm assuming.
- [00:10]
A
Yeah, or else you'll be bleeding out your coolo.
- [00:12]
B
I'm Mariana Van Zeller, and after reporting on black markets for my Emmy winning National Geographic show, Trafficked, I'm launching a podcast. You're getting emotional on me. Intimate conversations with those operating in the shadows. The Hidden Third is out now with new episodes every Wednesday. Subscribe@YouTube.com marianavanzeller Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
- [00:37]
A
Oh, my God. Is that a rat or a possum? What is that?
- [00:39]
B
That is actually a dead rat. It's a guinea pig. So they eat. They eat guinea pigs in Peru. It's one of their delicacies, and it was offered to us when we were doing a story about cocaine trafficking. And I came and offered.
- [00:52]
A
Tell me you didn't eat it, please.
- [00:54]
B
I did. I love weird food. The weirder it is, since I was.
- [00:56]
A
A little weirder it is, the more I like it.
- [00:59]
B
But you know what happened is that not only did I eat it, but I sort of forced. Huh? I forced. I forced my producer and my director of photography to eat it, too. And then one or both of them got deadly deathly sick the day next day, and to this day, they blame it on me. It was my dp, My director of photography, Fred, got really sick the next day.
- [01:19]
A
Yeah. Remind me not to work for your production. Never going to work for your production ever. That. Serving that tacos of rata tacos de rata tacos.
- [01:30]
B
Damn. Okay, so, Fabian, you're my first guest, you know that?
- [01:41]
A
First guest on the podcast Popping the Cherry.
- [01:43]
B
Yeah. You know what they say?
- [01:45]
A
Yes. I'm honored.
- [01:46]
B
Do you know what they say?
- [01:47]
A
Wow.
- [01:48]
B
Women never forget their first.
- [01:51]
A
You'll never forget.
- [01:52]
B
I'm so happy you're here. I've. Before I even found out that you had said yes to the podcast, I had been reading up about your life. You were a pro skater, you were an actor. Nowadays, you also did time in prison, Right? Nowadays, which is why you're here, is because of your prison time. But I'd love to hear about your story.
- [02:12]
A
Well, you know, when I got the call and I got the email, I was like, she wants me to snitch. She wants me to tell on people or things. I'm like what?
- [02:24]
B
The rat?
- [02:25]
A
You want me to be that guy right there? You want me to be that? No.
- [02:28]
B
Okay, so tell me, you grew up not very far from here in Echo Park, Right. Which actually I lived in Echo park for a little bit, so I know the neighborhood very well.
- [02:35]
A
Nice.
- [02:36]
B
And what was it like?
- [02:36]
A
So it's like you don't see the. Today you got guys out there with the Tony Hawk haircut and like, you don't. You don't. You didn't see that back then. You didn't see that. Like, now there's so many hipsters and it. But it's cool. I'm not saying that bad, but it's a different look today. Echo park looks like ovals.
- [02:55]
B
Is it true? It was actually. There were a ton of gangs at the time in Echo park that were growing up. And what was that like for you? And did you belong to any gang or how did you stay out?
- [03:04]
A
Well, I grew up in a family with. Of gangs, you know, like, predominantly 18th street was my family that came up and living in Echo Park. So navigating through all that is like trying to. It's like trying to play dodgeball every day, you know, and eventually you're going to. You're going to your friends. Are you going to be. You're going to get into something.
- [03:27]
B
Tell me about you. How when you say your family, who. Who and your.
- [03:30]
A
My mom and dad, grandfather, uncles, everybody. They all belong to gangs.
- [03:36]
B
And what does that mean exactly? Like, what exactly were they doing?
- [03:39]
A
You know, my dad was like. He was someone that. Everybody would. My mom, especially my mother would. They would all go to my mom and dad's house as if it was like a party house. So I grew up in a party house with drugs and drinking and oldies and. And you fighting.
- [03:55]
B
You see your parents and your family.
- [03:56]
A
I've seen my dad. I've seen my dad do dirt. Yeah, I watched my father. Yeah, I watched my father put in work. For example, we're at a barbecue. My. My mom and dad are. Wanted to barbecue and have a picnic, and they're with another couple. And these two other guys came that were from a different gang and they were high. And this is the days of, like, spray can, like, when everybody was like, sniffing and wow. So my. My. My little sister was in a stroller, and one of those guys thought that she. That my dad had a can, and it was my sister's rattler.
- [04:32]
B
Wow.
- [04:33]
A
And he. He went inside the, like, stroller and did something, and my dad, like, flipped on him and let him have it, you know, and, like. And then they start shooting at us. Like they were fighting. And then they. We. We took off. They pulled out guns and started shooting. I was in the car. I remember getting dragged up a hill in Elysian Park. Getting inside the car. My mom had me at the feet of the car, like, at the bottom. Right. And my mom was pregnant at the time, and she actually had a baby. I was probably, like, seven. And we took off, and they were shooting behind us. Like, it's. I've had. My parents are real young. They had me young, so they were, like, really teenagers.
- [05:06]
B
How old were they when they had you?
- [05:08]
A
Like, 15 and 14.
- [05:10]
B
15. 14 years old. Your mom was like 15 or 14?
- [05:14]
A
15, but my mom was like, 16.
- [05:15]
B
And are you the oldest one?
- [05:16]
A
I'm the oldest.
- [05:17]
B
How many brothers and sisters you have?
- [05:18]
A
I have seven. I'm the oldest. Wow. My little brother, he's only one boy. He's 13 years younger than me, and he's. He just got out of prison, like, four months before me.
- [05:29]
B
How many of your siblings have gone to prison?
- [05:31]
A
Everyone.
- [05:32]
B
All this. All seven?
- [05:33]
A
Oh, well, yeah. My siblings or my family? Oh, siblings. Just my brother and my two sisters. They've been to jail. Three of my sisters been to jail, and one of my brother just did 22 years.
- [05:46]
B
And your dad did time in prison as well?
- [05:47]
A
My dad, yeah.
- [05:48]
B
When. How old were you when your dad went to prison?
- [05:51]
A
Well, which time? Like, there's been.
- [05:54]
B
I. I don't. The first time.
- [05:56]
A
First time I could remember is, like, probably like, seven or eight. Well, I met him. I met him at, like, I met my father, like, at 8, because he was when I was born. Yeah.
- [06:04]
B
So you were very much raised by your mom?
- [06:06]
A
My mom, yeah. Mama's boy.
- [06:09]
B
And you were surrounded by gangs growing up?
- [06:11]
A
Yeah.
- [06:11]
B
Like, on the streets.
- [06:12]
A
Yeah.
- [06:12]
B
How hard was it to not become part of the gang?
- [06:15]
A
It's. It's possible, but when you're at school. Right. So most families are like this. A lot of my families I grew up in school with. Their parents weren't gang members, or maybe they had one gang member in their family. Cousin or brother or uncle. My family was my mother, father, grandparents, and my aunts and uncles were pretty much active and involved in the gang.
- [06:37]
B
And what does that mean exactly?
- [06:38]
A
Just shit. What? Going out, hanging out, and. And. And, like, going to. Going to the Elysian park. Because Elysian park was a big thing back then. They call it the Teardrop, and it used to be, like, a big hangout, and everybody would go there and There would be, you know, other gang rivals. There would be fights. Every night was like a party in my house. So people would come over and they would fight amongst each other, and nobody messed with us in the street, in the block, like, everybody knew who we were.
- [07:06]
B
And then in the next block, there was another gang. Right.
- [07:08]
A
Like a couple blocks over, right? Yeah, there was another gang. And. Yeah, and that's how it is. Echo park is very small. You got, like, Diamond, Echo park crazies. And then there's like. Of course, there's like, 18th street, you know, and that was my family, and.
- [07:22]
B
That was the biggest one in that area, you would say.
- [07:25]
A
I would say. I would say 18th street was big at the time. At the time. But, like, I think, like, now probably other gangs have succumbed that, like, Ms.
- [07:33]
B
And, you know, I did an episode for Traffic about gangs, actually. And it was mainly we spent a lot of time with the Crips and the Bloods. Cause we were looking at it through the eyes of, like, new immigrants and how it's almost like new people that they can bring in to the gang. New recruits.
- [07:50]
A
Exactly.
- [07:51]
B
For the gang. And so we spent a lot of time. But it was really hard to understand. We were trying to sort of follow the money and see if. When you belong to a gang, are you. Then. Do you have to give money to a certain person? Is there, like, hierarchy, hierarchical structure to the gang? That somebody is at the top and the money eventually goes up to that person or.
- [08:11]
A
I feel like it's like that. I don't know personally. I don't know personally, but I feel. And here she goes, trying to get me to talk. Like it's working. I'm going to be like that guy right there. No, no. It's like I have. I know it's like that. It is. When you do a crime for the benefit of the gang, that's 10 years automatically, because you, you know, you're. You're. You're doing it for the benefit of the gang. That's that you're trying to, you know, protect or represent. Even in prison. It's like that. Like, you know, you, You, You. You get something. A portion of it goes to the house. You know, you have to.
- [08:47]
B
Thank you for saying that because we couldn't get anyone to tell us exactly how that worked.
- [08:51]
A
So at least it's paying your respects, right?
- [08:53]
B
Okay. Okay.
- [08:54]
A
Am I the first one to say that? Oh, God, no, you're not. No, I'm not.
- [08:59]
B
I promise. You're not. We got. We had people sort of saying that More or less. But it's. It's.
- [09:03]
A
Yeah, it's.
- [09:04]
B
It's a part of the gangs that I don't think people. Most people know is the financial.
- [09:09]
A
I think it's the money without the money flow. That's why a lot of things keep. They don't want to go on lockdown. You don't want to. If you're. You got a dope house, you ain't trying to have a shooting in front of your dope house because that's where you make money, Right?
- [09:23]
B
Right, right.
- [09:23]
A
You don't want to ruin the money flow. And if you do it in prison, you better have permission, you know, because if you have permission to. To beat someone or stab somebody, then it's okay. If you don't got permission, you got consequences come in. And plus, like, you just ruined everything for the flow of the. You know, what happens in life.
- [09:43]
B
Okay, so tell me. And then you started skating.
- [09:48]
A
Okay, so me and my homeboy Juan, right? My boy Feeble, Me and Juan are. We stole the bike. So when you steal a bike with someone, it's not yours, it's ours. So I get to ride one day. You get the handlebars. Then you get to ride, and I get the handlebars.
- [10:04]
B
So you are sitting on my hand.
- [10:05]
A
So I was on the handlebars that day. And we're. And we're listening to his brother's music. His brother, rest in peace, Hector, who was. He had a truck that we all stole parts for, you know, to build that truck. Why you laughing? So we had. We all. You know, that's a community. It's called community. Yeah, Community work, right? We're all for each other. So, yeah, let's go steal some parts for your truck so we can all cruise and look good. It's the days of, like, when you had that speaker in the back of the truck and you could sit in the back in the 80s and just be cool, like, you know, bumping. Weekends are made for fun, you know what I'm saying? At Tommy's. So I was out there in the block hanging out with the truck, and his brother was messing with the stereo. And we heard it was like, where's that? Was that coming from? And there's two Asian dudes down the street. My friend's like, what? Let's go over there. So I got on the bike, like, what the hell are they doing? And I seen them. They had a little small ramp. So as soon as we got there, of course they stopped because they thought we were going to take Their stuff. And I'm like, dude, we go to school with you. We just want to see what you're doing. I got you in a class, go in.
- [11:07]
B
And you had never actually seen skating at this point. This was the first time.
- [11:10]
A
I mean, I've never seen skateboarding at all like that. Not at all. I've seen it on tv when they're just like, cruising, like, on a, like, you know, Charlie's Angels or something down the street, right? They're not really doing tricks. So these guys were like. They were Asian, but they had the Tony Hawk and they had the Jimmy Z shoes.
- [11:27]
B
But they went to school with you. You recognize them?
- [11:29]
A
Yeah, I know them. And they had Jimmy Z's and Vision Streetwear, air walks. And I'm like, I'm over here. Converse. Like, these Chuck Taylor's are not nothing like those Air Force skating. Yeah, these. This is not going to do it. But watching them skate was like, you know, it was cool. It was like I looked at it and then. And so we borrowed a board. I borrowed one board. I think my friend borrowed a board. This went on for weeks. And they're like, you know, hey, man, my mom's tripping. Like, you can't be riding my skateboard. Like, you're messing it up. And like, I'm like, man, where do I get one? You know, how do I get one of these? And like, you got to go to a skate shop, man. It's like a hundred bucks, right? Oh, man, I ain't getting no $100. We thought about it like, man, let's go steal the board. Where do you go? We go to Pasadena. We go to Glendale. We go to Beverly Hills where all the Tony Hawks, you know, they're like, they got money. So I'm like, man, we luckily we found a donut shop that had like 10 skateboards outside. I'm like, make a U turn, go back. And me and my boy got off, and I grabbed like four or five.
- [12:26]
B
No way.
- [12:27]
A
Ran back to the truck, dumped it. He grabbed like four or five grand. We had all these little young Tony Hawks, like, hey, give us back our board, bro. We're like, you. You know, like, that's how I started skating. And then from there, I held onto the wall and just like Frankenstein, like, little doggy walks on it. Like, didn't know what to do with it. We went back to those Asian kids, and they're like, oh, you got some pretty good boards. And these are dope. Can I get one? Like, yeah, have one, man. Like, shit. They're free. So we got into skateboarding like that. And now here's a big problem. Your shoes. You know, your shoes get messed up in skating. You get the ollie hole, and shoes.
- [13:01]
B
Are important in skating, right?
- [13:02]
A
Oh, my God. Yeah. That's like the. You need good shoes, right? You can't go skateboarding in your Stacey Adams. You know? You can't. So where do we go? Echo park is right near Chinatown. They leave their shoes outside. Let's go. Me and my friend are like, dude. So we would go up there and size up and Mike Frogman up to the porch and up to the building and start sizing our feet up. And I'm telling you, I started skating with crunchberry toes because most of those shoes, they're small. I got, like, a big foot compared to, like, most of those, you know? And I. Yeah, so I was skating like this.
- [13:33]
B
Like, the gay.
- [13:34]
A
Yeah, right. I was like, my toes are like that. And I had some Velcro crap that I don't even remember the name. It wasn't Airwalk, and it wasn't Vision Streetwear. It wasn't Nike. It was, like, psyche. It was like, weird stuff. Like, it was this weird, like, Velcro, like, old man tennis shoes, like, when they play tennis. And so we looked all messed up skating. Like, we were the. We were the poor kids that could. That were, like, hungry and wanted to skate and just wanted to be. And all of our friends all had money. When we went to Carl's Jr. I was waiting for them to buy stuff so I can have an alibi to go and get stuff off the salad bar that's free because I didn't have money. Me and my friend were broke. There was, like, a couple of us, you know, me, Joey, Juan. We're broke, man. We just didn't have nothing. So we would steal our stuff and. But you want to know what's funny? I come out, like, fast forward. I come out of prison, 2010. I did nine years, right? And Facebook is around. And this dude's like, hey, you stole my board. But I'm glad to see you're out. And, like, you turned pro. And I'm like, okay, you helped me turn pro. You helped me turn pro by stealing your board. So I gave him a board. I gave them. I sent them a box of stuff, you know, just because, like, it's, like, the only right thing to do.
- [14:44]
B
Do you think you actually stole his board or he's just bullshitting you.
- [14:48]
A
I could have stole this board. Yeah. Because in that area of Glendale, I. We we, we attacked that area a lot, you know, because it was a donut shop. Like, let's get the. Like, why go and have to get one board when you could get like 10 at one time?
- [14:59]
B
Did you. You realize when you started skating that you were actually pretty talented at it? What was it that made you different from other skaters?
- [15:05]
A
I sucked.
- [15:05]
B
Did you?
- [15:06]
A
I sucked. Yeah. I got good act after falling a bunch of times, like, you gotta fall.
- [15:11]
B
Do you think it's. I always wonder. It's like, because you're gonna fall. Yeah. And it's the people that don't mind falling, right. It's those that are a little bit braver that actually try and try and try and don't mind what, you know, the scars that it comes with and the pain that it comes with. And then they get better.
- [15:25]
A
Thing about skaters is resilience, Right.
- [15:27]
B
It's just never giving up things about success in general.
- [15:32]
A
Yeah, yeah. And like, you're not going to land it the first try. You're not even going to get close to it. So be expecting to fall.
- [15:38]
B
But you had to have some talents too.
- [15:40]
A
I mean. Yeah, of course. You have to have a niche for it. Some people, like, you know, you start off with like 30, 40 kids. It ended up being like four of us out of the whole, like. I mean, we were like mobbing down the street, right? Like, a bunch of us blocking traffic and everything. As years go by, people got a job. My homie got a job at Subway. He's making sandwiches now. I'm like, let's go get free sandwiches. My other homie got a girl pregnant. So he's like, oh, he stopped skating. He has to be a dad now. Or a le senor now. Like, man, already, Damn, you're only like 16. My other friend got locked up. Like, people just quit. Like, ah, I got a girl now. I don't skateboard.
- [16:16]
B
You know, I'd say it was like four of you that were so.
- [16:19]
A
I. I never had a job at Subway. I never had a girlfriend like that. I never had a kid when I was young like that.
- [16:25]
B
And why not? If you. You were saying how, you know you didn't have money and you were having steel. Why not get a job at Subway? Not. Why not figure out a way to make money early that didn't involve feeling.
- [16:35]
A
Because I don't like Subway sandwiches. No, I'm joking. It's just because I love Subway. I felt like I was. No, I love. So I love Subway sandwiches. I'm just joking. But I did. I just didn't feel like I wanted a job. Like, the 9 to 5 job. Like, I'm. I could do something. And plus, I grew up with the mentality, like, let's steal it, let's take it.
- [16:53]
B
Is this something that your parents. I mean, your parents were fully aware that you were stealing, that you were showing up at home with skateboards and bicycles? Bikes that were stolen. They weren't telling you, no, don't do it.
- [17:03]
A
I mean, are you kidding me? My dad was like, hey, mijo, I got a bike for you. I just took it from. And it was okay, right? Yeah, it was okay to steal. And it was okay to, like, just don't get caught because we can't bail you out.
- [17:14]
B
Yeah, yeah. It's so much of who you are is about the people that surround you, right? Yeah.
- [17:21]
A
You know, it's just like. It's how you grew up and who you surrounded by. You're right. My mom, she's such a sweetheart and has a good heart, but she puts the hammer down when she has to, you know? And my dad's the same way. Both Geminis. I'm June 2, he's June 6. And I've looked back and always thought, like, how did I make it out of there? How did I come out of that and not be a lifer or not be in MacArthur park, addicted or not. Just be working at Home Depot and just hating my life, like, doing something that I don't like doing. I feel like I've been struck with lightning twice by God because God gave me the gift and the gift of Gap to stay with the skateboard community and blend in and turn pro. I used to pray for this, Mariana. I prayed when I was a kid every night. So, like, God, please, I hope I turn pro. I will do good. I want to do my best and just take care of my family and stuff. And believe it or not, while I was in prison, I was watching a show called Southland, and I was praying to get on that show. And, like, I wanted to get on that show so bad and become an actor. And I came home and I started working on Southland.
- [18:25]
B
No way. You worked on Southland?
- [18:27]
A
On Southland, I worked on Southland. I was Flacco, the baddest cockfighter from east la.
- [18:33]
B
Yeah, you've been some interesting characters.
- [18:35]
A
It's a manifestation thing. I heard. Absolutely. And I didn't know that back then, and I've always, always, always didn't. But not even knowing I would say a prayer or light, like, just say aside. If now I like candles all over and, like, Now I'm just doing all kinds of, like, crazy superstitious stuff to, like.
- [18:53]
B
Do you think so? Do you think it'. You're religious?
- [18:56]
A
I would say, like, you have a.
- [18:57]
B
Big cross on you.
- [18:58]
A
I mean, I have a big cross on me, and I wear it proudly, and I do say grace before I eat. And I. Yeah, I mean, it's something that I have within me, but that don't mean that I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna turn the other cheek when you slap me.
- [19:10]
B
Right. No, my question was, do you think that it's because. Do you think your dreams in many ways came true or are slowly coming true or are coming true because you prayed or because you fought very hard for them? Both.
- [19:23]
A
Because I used to be an addict, too. And, like, I know that when you're going through your steps and when you're trying to get someone clean, it's best, always best to have a higher power and to dive into your higher power, whatever it may be. But I know that I couldn't have done it without God.
- [19:39]
B
Yeah.
- [19:39]
A
Couldn't have done it without.
- [19:40]
B
And you've always been religious.
- [19:42]
A
Always, like, prayers. No elbows on the table.
- [19:46]
B
Right.
- [19:47]
A
Even though we were gangstered out. No elbows on the table. Say your prayers. Say your prayers at night, mijo.
- [19:52]
B
And. And you still. You still do the cross when you.
- [19:56]
A
Go to a church?
- [19:56]
B
I can't do that.
- [19:57]
A
Back when we were skating, and my friends know this, my true, real old older friends that hang out with me, I made up this rule called church violence. And, like, if you didn't do the cross when we were passing by skateboarding, and I would look at all my friends, take one in Orem. What do you mean, take a punch? You in the arm. If they did all of us to sock you out in the arm. Yeah, church violence. If you didn't do the cross, you had to take it off your head.
- [20:21]
B
And cross, like, to the church, everybody, whether they wanted to or not.
- [20:25]
A
If you didn't do it, you were getting socked.
- [20:27]
B
Oh, I'm not getting in the car with you anytime soon. Right off to the cross.
- [20:31]
A
Skating, walking in a car. If you didn't do the cross, that's called church violence. You owe me.
- [20:37]
B
Okay?
- [20:38]
A
Yeah.
- [20:38]
B
Okay. So backtrack a little bit to. You're growing up, you found out that you're pretty resilient and you really like skateboarding. And then you start getting along with people that were completely different than the people that you grew up with. Right. And then you became a pro as well.
- [20:53]
A
What it Just. Man.
- [20:54]
B
Yeah. How did. How's that journey? The skating journey from beginning skating to pro?
- [20:58]
A
Yeah, that. That took. That took years. Years of me falling and skating.
- [21:03]
B
So you started skating when you were what, like 13, 14?
- [21:05]
A
I started skating at 13. Towards 14, I started skating and then I turned pro at like 20.
- [21:10]
B
And what were you doing? Were you just skating during that time and.
- [21:13]
A
Yeah, just skating.
- [21:15]
B
And you never made money from skating?
- [21:16]
A
Going to jail.
- [21:18]
B
You were going to jail back then.
- [21:19]
A
Go to jail back then. You know why?
- [21:21]
B
For what?
- [21:21]
A
Because I was into graffiti and I'm from a crew, right. And I would write on the walls, and then I get into fights and, you know, I used to smoke a lot of weed. And then that, like, kind of got into the drug that I. I was smoking crack and, like, you know, snoring. Coke. Snoring. Coke Started first.
- [21:42]
B
It escaped community, was it?
- [21:44]
A
Yeah, you know, I. It's always been at my house. I used to see big old blocks of everything, but never used it. Never. Never did it.
- [21:51]
B
Hey, your parents or your family did. Was that something that sold it?
- [21:54]
A
Used it? Everything.
- [21:55]
B
Cocaine, crack? Yeah, yeah, everything.
- [21:57]
A
Yeah. Pcp. We had PCP in the fridge.
- [21:59]
B
Wow.
- [21:59]
A
We had a jar right next to the peanut butter is the pcp. Don't touch that. PB and J pcp. You know what I'm saying?
- [22:07]
B
And so from a very early age, you knew exactly what PCP was.
- [22:10]
A
I knew the smell because I would. My mom gonna hate me for this, but I'll be like, mom, come here. Let me. Let me get a kiss. Let me see. And then she would, like. I could smell it because that stuff stays on you. The pcp, it's like embalming fluid. This crazy, like.
- [22:26]
B
So she was a drug user as well?
- [22:27]
A
Yeah, my mom. Yeah, yeah, my mom, she used drugs. She used. She used drugs. And just recently, you know, while I was in, I guess like a couple prison terms ago, she stopped using and my dad just. They all got clean and everybody's good now.
- [22:40]
B
Nice. That's great. That's not an easy thing to do.
- [22:43]
A
No, and on their own. On their own. No rehab, no. Nothing like that. It was just straight, like, you know, my dad kicked heroin in prison just like on his own, you know, mind over matter type shit.
- [22:54]
B
Do you remember being young and, like, seeing your mom act differently and think, why can't she just stop using? It was. Was there part of you that thought, why can't she control this?
- [23:04]
A
Yeah, there was. There was a lot of, like, we couldn't, you know, couldn't get our. Our laundry done or couldn't go shopping for new clothes for school or groceries, everything. Like, I would be the kid. Since I'm the oldest. This is what they put me through. I'm telling you, I went through it, man. When I'm. If you're the oldest, you get to get involved. And you better get involved or you get your ass kicked. So I would hold the money that they had, right? My mom and dad would give me a roll of money. This is for rent and this is for groceries. It's got last us through the whole month. If we ask you for more money, don't let us get it. Don't let us. Don't tell us no. And hide it. Hide it. So I get waking up in the middle of the night, like, me, me get $40 from your stash. Give me 20.
- [23:47]
B
How old were you there?
- [23:49]
A
10.
- [23:49]
B
Oh, my God.
- [23:50]
A
I'm like, but, mom, you told. What about the shoes we're supposed to buy? We're not. Just give it to me, you know? And then they get mad when I don't give it to him. So, you know, you got to give it to them. You know what I mean?
- [23:58]
B
Like, that's like putting a kid in an impossible situation. What do you do?
- [24:02]
A
And then I. My sister's got lies, and we don't got, like, food really, that, like, you know, we had stuff, but we never went starving. But there were days that we didn't have nothing, but we never really starved or nothing, like, to where we got all, like. But there were times we had to get asked for food and go. And my uncle or neighbors would give us food and stuff. It was one of those things where I hate this when the Friday comes, because on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, everybody's gonna be here and they're gonna get high. You get ignored, man. You just come home and see that your mom is wasted and your dad, like, PCP is a different drug. It's not like alcohol where you just lay back and go to sleep. PCP makes you do freaky shit. You know what I'm saying? Not that my mom was running down the street naked or nothing, but in the house, freaky. Like, just, you know, I don't want to see my mom like that.
- [24:50]
B
Of course not.
- [24:51]
A
Zombie. My dad, you know, it's just not. It's not a good thing. And I think about it, and yeah, it gets. It gets like, I, I. Those are the things that my sisters, because I'm the oldest, and seven years later, they had my sister, they didn't. They didn't get to really see some of that. They did, but the. Towards the end, they caught the tail end of it. They didn't get to be in the car when. Or they didn't get to see my dad climb a fence because this dude blew a kiss at my mom and she was pregnant. My dad jumped the fence in Bellevue park, and he got. The guy, threw him down the stairs, and he fell down the stairs with him. And there was also another girl with that guy, and they were smoking pcp. So ironic, right, that my mom and dad do PCP too, right? But these guys are doing pcp, and my dad was in the bathroom, and I was out there, and I see him go to my mom, oh, I'm gonna go tell my dad. But I didn't know my dad was gonna explode like that.
- [25:41]
B
So you told your dad and then what happened?
- [25:44]
A
I was doing Mariana. I told him. I was. I was telling. I was like, hey, it's not me. Yeah, Mariana. I went and got. I did. I did. Like I said, hey, right? Dad, this dude just blew a kiss at mom. What? She was pregnant at a seven, so she was pregnant at the time. Again. He topped the fence. The guy tried to run up the stairs. He grabbed him, threw him down, but he ended up falling down with him, beat him up, and then hopped the fence. And then we had to go. We had to leave. Like, I watched my dad. I watched my dad go crazy. I watched my uncles, like, I got. I got. For no reason. I'm riding my bike down the street and some dude just throw his leg out and clothesline me and kicks me off my bike. And I had this like, fake lowrider bike. It was like. I thought it was lowrider, but it was a Royce Union. Yeah, did really? I just had handlebars like this. And I'm probably like 12 years old. This dude just kicked me nowhere. 11 years old, kicks me and I fall off and there's this big black dude, and I start crying like I was scared, like I was a grown ass man. And it's in front of the Welford place on Beverly. And I went back and told my dad. My dad and mom were playing backgammon, and my uncle was there. They were playing backgammon, drinking, listening to oldies. And I'm like. I'm just like, hey, man, what happened to you? Why are you crying? This dude kicked me off my bike for no reason right here. We drove around in the. In the. I was in the backseat, and my uncle and my. And my dad were looking for him and found him at the liquor store. And, you know, they. I seen him, and I was just like, oh, they kicked his ass. Yeah.
- [27:09]
B
What happened to the guy?
- [27:10]
A
The guy got beat up.
- [27:10]
B
Like, really?
- [27:11]
A
Yeah, I got beat up pretty bad, but he ended up being so.
- [27:13]
B
In situations like that. Did you then, like, feel like maybe I shouldn't start telling my dad when, like, this happens to me because, well.
- [27:20]
A
Then stop kicking me.
- [27:21]
B
Right?
- [27:21]
A
Don't kick me then, like. And I won't tell my dad now. I can handle myself. But back then, I was like, you know, I'm a kid, man. And I thought. I thought that was okay. I'm gonna tell my dad so this guy could get what he deserves because he kicked me off my bike. And once I told my mom, my mom was fired up, my dad was fired up. Let's go. Get in the car. Show me.
- [27:41]
B
What are some good lessons you learned from them?
- [27:43]
A
Good lessons? I've learned some good stuff from them. I've learned to, like, never give up on anything you're doing. Don't quit just because it gets hard. And I've learned to be respectful and to mind my own business when I have to.
- [27:55]
B
Are they proud of you now? Do they talk about being proud of you?
- [27:58]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [27:59]
B
They do, yeah. Oh, good. What do they say?
- [28:01]
A
Well, they. They love going to, like, the stuff that I'm in and, like, when, you.
- [28:06]
B
Know, they go to the premieres and everything.
- [28:07]
A
Yeah, I took them to a couple premieres stuff when Flamin Hot with Eva Longoria. My mom and dad were so proud. And, like, I had just been home, like, maybe less than a year, and then I was already on Mayans. So my mom and dad are proud of me right now. Like, and they. They've always been kind of proud of me. I think it's just, like, were they proud of you moments?
- [28:26]
B
Yeah. Were they pro you when you were a skater? A pro skater?
- [28:29]
A
Yeah.
- [28:29]
B
Do they understand the world of skating?
- [28:31]
A
No, no, no, no, no. I told them I'm going skating. And I. Like, they had no idea. Like, I told my mom, mom, this is a Thrasher magazine. Look, I'm in the mag. I'm in the. So you really skate? You really, like, so you're really a pro? I'm like, mom, I've been pro for, like, a year. How do you think I'm getting all these skateboards? Like, she never really understood the concept of, like, how do you get paid?
- [28:53]
B
People actually get paid for this? This is.
- [28:55]
A
Write a board. This is not real. And, like, I'm like, mom, I'm. I'm. I'm in a magazine. And, like, I got a skateboard with my name on it. And, like, she'll be like, you know, you. So you really. You're really good at this, then.
- [29:09]
B
Yeah. It must be such, like, an alien concept for her.
- [29:12]
A
When I came by skateboarding, my uncles are drinking. This is an echo park and La vida Terre. And, you know, I would come by with my skateboard, and they'd be like, what are you doing now? You're. Are you a surfer? You're a surfer now? You're a white boy or a white boy, you're surfing? I'm like, right. First of all, it's sidewalk. This is a skateboard. How do you get surfing? Because that's all they. You know, they're on the block, and they. They imagine in their heads, I'm thinking that they just put, like, skateboarding to a white boy. And like me when I did the Tony Hawk, you know, I do this. I still do it.
- [29:43]
B
I still do it.
- [29:44]
A
Yeah. I still. And then. And that's how they are. After a while, I was, like, making fun of me coming home hurt. And, like, I remember my dad. One time I came home with a broken leg. All my friends from. From USC South Central, they took me on a bus. I just got sponsored. I was skating for Z. I'm a Z boy. Just got on. I was all happy. I got too excited and broke my ankle. I was like, damn, How'd I break my ankle? Like, barely got sponsored. I come home, my dad's like, right away, I don't know how the hell you think you're gonna get by in life with this damn skateboard, man. When I was your age, when I was your. When I was 16, I had a car, I had a job, I had a girlfriend, and I had a mustache.
- [30:21]
B
You ain't got right? And he had a kid.
- [30:23]
A
And he had a kid. Yeah, but he had all that right? And I didn't. And I just. All I could do was think and worry about, damn, I didn't have a mustache. I'm about to start shaving, you know, I'm gonna make it come out for real. Like, be the only skater with a big old brochure, you know?
- [30:38]
B
But I like the mustache.
- [30:39]
A
Yeah.
- [30:39]
B
And then what did you say?
- [30:40]
A
I mean, my dad has a mustache. Like, so. Yosemite Sam, of course. What could I say to that? You know? Like, what do you say to that? I mean, I looked at him like, I wait to show you. I can't Wait. To show you what I'm gonna do.
- [30:51]
B
So you was a little bit of a fire under your.
- [30:53]
A
Yeah.
- [30:53]
B
Like, it was. You were trying to prove something as well?
- [30:55]
A
Because I've always been downed and shitted on and told no and, like, told, like, how are you gonna do that? What are you gonna. Like, you know?
- [31:03]
B
So wait, so when you became pro, how did that happen? So it was six, seven years of skating, skating, just skating. And then eventually, what, somebody came to.
- [31:11]
A
You and said, hey, actually, no, because back then, there was no Instagram and all this crazy, you know, Internet stuff. So people were just word of mouth. He's a good skater. He's dope.
- [31:21]
B
And at this point, you were really good.
- [31:23]
A
And that kid. Yeah, they'll be like that, hey, man, this guy, he's. He rips like, he's a good kid. You know, He's a. He's one of the die hard. Like, look at his shoes. Look at his hair. Just look at him. He's like. All these kids are all Jimmy Z and Stussy and wearing all the Fred Siegel expensive brands.
- [31:39]
B
Yeah.
- [31:39]
A
And I'm wearing Dickies Levi's and a T shirt or a muscle shirt and Converse.
- [31:45]
B
Right.
- [31:45]
A
Just that I stole and a skateboard that don't belong to me, but I'm doing good on it. And that's how I got by. Stole my first skateboard. When I've. I've gone as Mariana, I've gone into skate shops with like 13 all in ones. Right. Acted like I was gonna buy something. Yeah, let me get that board that trucks. And. And I'm waving the money where they can't really see the numbers, though. I'm just like, yeah. And. And I get all this stuff and I run. You ran out with my $11.
- [32:12]
B
You didn't even leave that behind. And what. And they're running behind you to trying to catch you. What happened? Yep.
- [32:16]
A
And then a fight ensues. And then right there on Vermont, on this place called Silver Green, they had a security dude, his name was Pablo. And like, I say Pablo because he was like, kind of like Pablo, you know, he's like, kind of feminine. But I was getting punched out by a gay dude. So I started fighting back. Pow. And hitting him with the board. And I took off. But, like, I was like, wow, gay dude hit me hard.
- [32:34]
B
Did you go around with a gun when you were younger or when you were a teenager?
- [32:41]
A
There's a statue of limitations.
- [32:45]
B
I'm laughing because you made that face.
- [32:47]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And. And also on, like, Ice Pick or knife?
- [32:50]
B
An ice pick. Why an ice pick?
- [32:51]
A
Because, you know, I could also lie to the cops and say it's a tool for my skateboard, you know.
- [32:56]
B
Was it actually a tool for your skateboard too?
- [32:58]
A
No, not at all.
- [32:59]
B
And what were you doing? What were you.
- [33:01]
A
Well, that's for protection. You know, I wasn't. I wasn't out there stealing no more. Well, I was. When I was hungry, before Vons, it was Safeway.
- [33:08]
B
And we go the supermarket.
- [33:09]
A
Yeah, yeah, we go into Safeway. And we had a plan. There was three of us. I'll get the bologna, you get brie. And someone gets soda. And someone just jack a 2 liter and we'd all come out. Somebody just has to go get some mayonnaise. And we all come out. Well, we'll eat in the store. But then when it's time to steal, we all come out with.
- [33:25]
B
Right, Fabian? It turns out we have a lot in common. This is the first time I'm ever going to tell this story. In the last one, but I once stole from a supermarket in Portugal where I grew up. It wasn't so much to eat, but it was because it was this fancy chocolate and some sort of drink, soda drink that I wanted. And I didn't have money at the time. And I was immediately caught by the security guard and called my parents. It was a terrible thief.
- [33:46]
A
Yeah. So you're not a thief. And that's why you this. Because now you're looking to learn how to steal, Right?
- [33:52]
B
This is it. I'm trying to.
- [33:54]
A
You're trying to make learn the craft. Time that one chocolate.
- [33:57]
B
Teach me everything you know. But in that case, you were. You. You were just doing this on the regular.
- [34:02]
A
I was just trying to eat.
- [34:04]
B
Yeah, and you were just trying to eat exactly.
- [34:06]
A
Deodorant, stuff like that. And I'm toothpaste and 711 the little hamburgers and stuff. Just eating whatever I could. I. Let me just say this. And I know my parents are gonna kill me, but I ran away from home because I came home with the hickey on my neck. And I was a teenager. My sisters were growing up. We lived in South Central on top of a liquor store. When I was there, you had to have a knife. One of you's gotta take turns carrying it up your rectum.
- [34:33]
B
Wait, it's up your.
- [34:34]
A
But that's the prison wallet. You never leave home alone.
- [34:36]
B
You have something protected around it, I'm assuming.
- [34:38]
A
Yeah, or else you'll be bleeding out your coolo.
- [34:40]
B
I'm Arianna Van Zeller. And after reporting on black markets for my Emmy winning National Geographic show, Trafficked, I'm launching a podcast. You're getting emotional on me. Intimate conversations with those operating in the shadows. The Hidden Third is out now with new episodes every Wednesday. Subscribe@YouTube.com Marianna Vanzelli Follow Us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to.
- [35:04]
A
Podcasts on Vernon Hooper.
- [35:07]
B
This. This was after Echo park, you guys.
- [35:09]
A
This is like Echo park still, but, like, my family's an Echo park, but. Oh, God, you know, when you get evicted, you got to move somewhere. So then we moved to South Central. While we got evicted. We all went with my aunt.
- [35:18]
B
Okay.
- [35:18]
A
I lived on. We lived on Rampart, right by Tommy's, but we got evicted, so we had to go somewhere. We went with my aunt in South Central and I came home with a hickey.
- [35:26]
B
Yeah.
- [35:26]
A
My mom was high on PCP with my two uncle, her brothers. And she tells me that you're being disrespectful to your sisters. They're young and they're looking at you coming home and all this. So she slapped me and I was like, mom, chill. What's wrong with you? And I'm like throwing that at her like, you're high. You're always high. Why am I being disrespectful when you're high? And then so she got in my face and she slapped me again. And I grabbed her hand and I said, stop. And then my mom was high, so she went off. She tried to sit on the edge of the bed and fell over. My uncle comes in, thinks that I did it, and right away gets on me. And I didn't do nothing, but they thought I did. And he starts punching on me and like, I'm like, I didn't do that. So I felt like running away right there at the spot. But we're in South Central and I'm not going to leave at night time. So I'm gonna wait till tomorrow to run away in the morning when it gets light and I could be safe.
- [36:15]
B
Yeah.
- [36:16]
A
Because nobody wants to walk around at no. 11:30, 12 o' clock in South Central. And back in those days and still. So the next day, I packed a little couple of trash bag, like grocery bags and took some stuff with me. And I asked my aunt for some change. He gave me 81 cents and I jumped on the bus and I didn't come back for four months. During those four months that I was gone, I thought, yeah, I'm gonna teach them. They're gonna be worried about Me, they're gonna be missing me. I go back home four months later, mind you. I see my mom in the streets and I say hi to her, and we say hi, and you good? And then I don't see her no more. But she doesn't say, come back home, but, like, she's doing her own thing, you know? It's like, it's. It's. I don't know what to say. It's like, it's like that. So when I do go back home, my mom's there, and right away I. I go back and thinking that they're gonna be, like, missing me, and they're, like, excited to see you throw the trash away. And where you been? Like, where you been? At Juan's. Where did you. You know? You were just here last week. And I've been gone for four months. I've been gone for a while. They didn't even realize. Everyone just at business as usual. And I go, dude, I've been gone for four months. Nobody recognized, nobody cared. Like, I'm thinking, I'm showing them, right? I'm showing them. They're going to worry about me, and I'm going to show them. They're going to be like, oh, Fabian.
- [37:25]
B
Maybe they did realize and that was just a strategy that they had to try to pretend that they told me.
- [37:29]
A
To take out the garbage. So again. But that shit didn't work, right? Damn, it didn't work, man. I try to get them to miss me.
- [37:36]
B
Okay, fast forward to then going pro. Tell me about that. What was that like when you found out you were going pro?
- [37:41]
A
I already had a baby on the way, so I.
- [37:43]
B
Your first?
- [37:44]
A
Yeah, I had a baby on the way. Going first one.
- [37:46]
B
And so you're 20, 21 years old?
- [37:47]
A
Yeah, I'm 20. And I'm like, I'm going to go pro. And it's right on time. It's perfect, you know? How much.
- [37:53]
B
How much money were you making?
- [37:54]
A
My first check was like $90 for a whole 90 for a month. Next check was like 167 or 165, something like that. And how did you survive 181 the next month and then like. Yeah, exactly. But all I had to do was pay for food and break my mom off a little to the house. You always got to pay the. You know, the house. Even in prison, you got to pay the mafia. You got to pay the mob, you know, my mom is the mob. I pay her off, and then I'm good so long as I could keep some. And then my mom made me get on GR What's GR? General relief. You got to go get a check every month.
- [38:27]
B
Like, it's like welfare.
- [38:28]
A
Yeah, it's like welfare for single guys.
- [38:31]
B
Okay. Single guys with babies on them.
- [38:32]
A
I'm a single lady. Yeah, but like, Welford up, you know.
- [38:35]
B
Right.
- [38:35]
A
You got to work for it.
- [38:36]
B
How much was it?
- [38:37]
A
Like, 200 of food stamps. And probably, like, okay, like, 200 in cash, but you got to work for it. You got to work like a dog.
- [38:42]
B
What do you have to do? But what do you mean you have to work for it?
- [38:44]
A
You got. They put you on work sites, and they tell you to go here and go there and do this and do that. It's crazy. I did that.
- [38:51]
B
So you were doing that and skating at the same time.
- [38:54]
A
But pro checks were like, I was getting more from the welfare than them.
- [38:57]
B
Right. What was the max amount you ever made from skating?
- [38:59]
A
Why? Biscuit. Big checks. I mean, I made, like.
- [39:02]
B
I mean, like, once they started.
- [39:04]
A
Yeah, once. Once at the peak of my.
- [39:05]
B
Right.
- [39:05]
A
Yeah. I was getting, like, really almost 10 grand a month.
- [39:08]
B
A month. Okay. And at this point, what was your life like?
- [39:11]
A
And at that point when I was getting all that money. Yeah, it was. It was on. I was the man. I was like, everybody loved me. I was traveling. I was skating. It was.
- [39:19]
B
You had girlfriends.
- [39:21]
A
Yeah, I had girlfriends and a baby mama. Yeah. You know. You know, as I was young and I didn't know how to really understand the concept of being a father, and.
- [39:31]
B
And then you were using. You were spending the money on.
- [39:33]
A
I was. I was also. So I never really stopped using. Just, like, every so often it was. But I knew I had priorities. Skateboarding.
- [39:39]
B
Yeah. I wanted to ask you, when did you first start using? Like, what was the first drug you ever tried? And then how did it progress and what was the worst?
- [39:45]
A
I did cocaine. I did lines of cocaine.
- [39:47]
B
When you were how old?
- [39:48]
A
Probably like 18, 17.
- [39:50]
B
That was the youngest. I thought. I thought you had done 16, but.
- [39:53]
A
You tried wheat before I met all wheat also. Yeah. So when we were younger, like, 15, 14.
- [39:58]
B
Okay.
- [39:58]
A
And when I was younger, I knew because I. I used to con. I used to, like, hide all the drugs, and I knew where everything. I knew everything, man. When I was young, I was, like, a cop. I hated the drugs. And I would always sniff test my mom. Like, let me go next to her, get a kiss and be like, I'm not gonna get high today. Right? No, no, we're gonna be good. We're just gonna drink. Lies. Liar.
- [40:17]
B
So you Were sort of always trying to control what drugs were at.
- [40:19]
A
That when I'd come home, my mom and dad and her. Their friends would hide the dope, try to act sober, and be like, hey, mijo, what's up? Hey, how you doing? Like, you know, it's like, you're high. I could tell you. I could smell in the air, and I could see my mom, and I could just look at everybody in the face. And I come into my skateboard and be like, I'm mad. Like, why are you guys doing this? Like, my sisters, we grew up with lies. Grew up. And that's why I have a bald head, because of all the lies. You know what I mean? Like, we always had license. And I'm afraid to grow my hair.
- [40:48]
B
Back up for lice and that way because they were just not paying attention to you guys. Yeah.
- [40:53]
A
Neglect a little bit. Neglect a little bit. And just, like, indulged in their addiction. And then they had, like, a lot of supporters in their addiction. It was a spot to go get high. So if in order to get high here, you have to bring dope, and you got to get the person that lives here high, so they got get you high in order to stay here.
- [41:09]
B
Okay. And then the first time you tried.
- [41:11]
A
It, I did it when I. Man, I was young. I was ditching school, and they were all smoking, and it's, you know, homies from another gang, I would say, but they're from another gang. And then we were all chilling the bat, and, like, I woke up to these guys, a bunch of people around me, and I went to sleep reading a Teen angel magazine. And then I woke up, and all these people were coming. I thought they were going to, like, like, harass me and try to mess with me. But I said who I was with, and he had left. He went to school to go get lunch, and he's going to come back. So I mentioned his name, and they're like, oh, this is cool. They're like, all right, what's your name? And blah, blah, blah. And then they rolled up a. A joint. And I've been smoking weed since I was 12 with my dad. My dad said, you're a man now. 12 years old. You get to smoke in the house. And I was like, real? Like, for real. I've been watching him smoke since I was small. So now he's like, you're 12 years old. You're a man.
- [42:00]
B
You can do this.
- [42:00]
A
You could smoke now. You're. You're considered a man. And my two little sisters, like, they've been smoking, and I'm just like, I'm a man now, and I have the. You know that roach clip with the feather? I had one of those, and I was passed to my dad, and he had a little box of all his paraphernalia.
- [42:15]
B
Did you like wheat at the time?
- [42:17]
A
Well, I like being high. I'm just like, yeah, I'm 12 years old. Like, I'm like, high and, you know, going to school and then come home and can't wait to get home and sit next to my dad, like, and talk some more. Yeah. But I didn't. I didn't indulge in it, and I didn't, like, become a fiend for the weed. It's little. If it's. If I did, I did, and if I didn't, I didn't. But I knew the smell. I knew. I knew what coke looked like. I knew what crack looked like. I knew what heroin was. Pcp. I didn't hide all that stuff and have it in our house. And I knew it was there. They would tell me, because I'm the oldest, when the social workers came to question us, I said, you know, nah, there's no drugs in here, and we eat all the time and we're good. And I lied. You know, I said everything, you know, that we're all supposed to say.
- [42:59]
B
You had social workers coming off to the house to check on you guys, and so you were with those friends or those people that came and they were rolling. What? That was the first time you tried.
- [43:08]
A
With coke, with crack and weed.
- [43:10]
B
Okay. And you tried.
- [43:11]
A
Smoked it?
- [43:12]
B
Yeah, 15, 14.
- [43:13]
A
14, 15.
- [43:14]
B
And what was that like?
- [43:15]
A
And I had. That's weird. I was like, damn. Made me feel like I wanted more. I wanted more. And that's the, that was the cocaine, and I wanted to keep doing it all that day, and I couldn't. Like, that's all I thought about.
- [43:26]
B
And then when you do it after.
- [43:27]
A
I wanted more, and I was like, how could we get more? And I. That's what it does to you, right? You just want more, man, let's sell this cup with this mask on it. Get $5 for it, and whatever you want to give me it, you know, whenever. That's what it does to you, and.
- [43:40]
B
That'S what it did to you. Like, you started every day wanting to.
- [43:43]
A
It was. It does that to you. It, it, it latched on to me at the time, but I knew that I, I, you know, you have to snap out of it, you know, when you, you just have to. You have to Snap out. You can't do this. This is what you can't do. But you do it anyway. Yeah. So I made, I, I, like, made myself, like, forget about it and just. But you always got to come home, so I knew how to pinch little things here and there from your, from.
- [44:09]
B
Your home, from your family.
- [44:10]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Little stuff. And just, you know, whether I make $10 or I do it with my friends, either way.
- [44:15]
B
At the height of your drug use, how much were you doing?
- [44:17]
A
How awesome it was after skateboarding?
- [44:19]
B
Okay. After pro, skip after pro.
- [44:22]
A
When I turned pro, it was like, everything was good. I had a son. I lived in the Valley, which is like, the Valley. It's like, damn, you got out of Echo Park. You live in a valley. Must be doing good, you know? Yeah, not so.
- [44:32]
B
Not so. Why not so?
- [44:34]
A
Because I was still, you know, the mentality. You could, like, I feel like you can have all the things in the world and you could be rich and you can have money and a business and you can have money flowing and people loving you and stuff, but if you don't know how, how to manage it, and if you don't know, you know, you're just consuming, it's not going to last long, Right?
- [44:52]
B
It's interior, not exterior, right?
- [44:54]
A
It's with the, it's, it's what's inside a soul thing and how you work and how you think and. Because it's all, like, in the thought process, you know, the thought to the mouth, and then you have a feeling, you put it in your thought, you speak it, it comes to life, right? And that's how, you know, I, I feel like that's what's been my life. If I feel it, I think it, and then I speak on it, and I try to make it come to life by putting action into it. And I, I, I was addicted. Carjacking, robbing.
- [45:23]
B
When did this all start? Yeah, when did your life of crime start?
- [45:27]
A
When, When I got hurt skateboarding. My friends died. Like, a couple of my, A good friend of mine died. Like, a couple friends died. And, like, I wasn't. Like, we were close, we were close, but, like, I didn't live with them or nothing like some of these other guys. But I was always around. I had a kid early. None of my friends had kids. Now they all got kids, and they're all, like, young. My kids already grown. But, you know, my. In my addiction, I was trying to hide it and trying to keep up, but, you know, your appearances are going to. And you're going to stop Showing up and just make excuses to your friends.
- [45:58]
B
Not your skating friends, not know, your friends, you know, you were using at the time.
- [46:01]
A
It wasn't like their social media, like, you know, when you. Oh, I haven't seen you on social media lately. It's just me not showing up. Back then. It was me not showing up.
- [46:08]
B
But did they know that you weren't showing up because you were probably high on crack somewhere or were that you just had been high and fell asleep or something?
- [46:16]
A
No, just, like, off the deep end, you know. They would never come to where I lived, my friends. I'm telling you, I didn't grow up with the Tony Hawk skaters. I grew up with, like, my close friends that grew up in the neighborhoods like me. So they would come to my house and see me. The rest of my friends that skateboarded were, like, kind of sketchy on coming to my house because, you know, for Thanksgiving, like, my mom's house got shot up 11 times.
- [46:38]
B
So they were afraid of, like, the violence, the gang violence that was going.
- [46:41]
A
Down in front of my house because we had homies there. And, like, my sister's boyfriends now are carrying guns. And, you know, I'm getting along with them, and I got one. Everybody's just doing dope and running drugs out the house. You got a neighborhood, like, down the street that don't like us and a few fools that we gotta watch out for. I fell back into, like, the crap of it, like, the whole dark side of it. And, like, you know, when my girl was cheating on me and I was cheating on her, so we split. I ended up leaving my son behind, like, with her, and I just let the checks in the car go to her, and I took a little portion out of it before, you know, my checks got smaller and smaller because in skateboarding, you gotta produce. You have to keep producing. Skateboarding, you have to do tricks. You have to stay in the limelight, you gotta be in the magazines and, you know, at least go skate and do new stuff.
- [47:26]
B
And you weren't.
- [47:27]
A
I wasn't being creative.
- [47:28]
B
And did you realize that your sort of dreams were slipping away from you at this point?
- [47:32]
A
Yeah, I did. But, you know, in your addiction, you don't care. You don't. You don't. You don't see that. You just want what's right.
- [47:41]
B
Now, how much were you using at that time?
- [47:43]
A
A lot. Like, I was smoking crack a lot. I mean, I've dabbled at pcp, but mostly it was crack. I mean, if I didn't have crack, I would do meth and. But I didn't like meth. Something about meth that just. Can I be frank? Meth didn't make my wiener work.
- [47:57]
B
Oh, wow.
- [47:57]
A
Didn't want to go nowhere. It was like meh, you know, And I didn't like that.
- [48:01]
B
Which is interesting because actually it is used a lot for that. Yeah.
- [48:05]
A
Yeah.
- [48:05]
B
For.
- [48:06]
A
For.
- [48:06]
B
For performance.
- [48:07]
A
Fucking hammering.
- [48:08]
B
Yeah. For sex.
- [48:09]
A
Yeah. But not.
- [48:10]
B
Not for you.
- [48:11]
A
Not me. That's why I know I'm a cocaine baby.
- [48:13]
B
You are cocaine.
- [48:15]
A
Yeah.
- [48:15]
B
Okay.
- [48:15]
A
Yeah, it was. That stuff did do nothing for me. It just did the opposite for my performance, you know, you got a girl, like, what's wrong with you? Like, I don't know. Stupid drug, you know, Crack.
- [48:27]
B
You had none of crack.
- [48:28]
A
I was Superman.
- [48:29]
B
So you're using. You're using every day, all the time. It was like you had to have it.
- [48:33]
A
Yeah, but, you know, there's times that you just. You know, I was. I was going around Echo Park, Chinatown, Hollywood, Silver Lake, Glendale. I robbed people anywhere.
- [48:45]
B
And you were robbing.
- [48:46]
A
Never robbed no kids and no women.
- [48:48]
B
Yeah, but you were stealing. You were. You were robbing from the men who perhaps provided for those women and kids. Right. So it's all kind of the same.
- [48:54]
A
And that wasn't my. On my mind back then. Yeah. So the one time I did rob from a woman was a hardware store, and there was a hardware store on Glendale, and me and my sister just got through robbing someone. See, I. It's funny, I say this with my sister because me and my sister have gone on robbery. My first robbery was with my father. My father took me on my first robbery.
- [49:18]
B
Like, to teach you.
- [49:19]
A
Yeah.
- [49:20]
B
Like, what did you say?
- [49:22]
A
Go get your BB gun and put on one of my hoodies. That was small. I was young. I was shorter than him. Now I'm taller than my dad. But we'll put on one of my hoodies and get the BB gun.
- [49:29]
B
How old were you?
- [49:30]
A
14.
- [49:31]
B
So I was thinking that he was taking you because it would be less suspicious. But no, he was actually using you as sort of an accomplice.
- [49:38]
A
Yeah. So he robbed like, literally like maybe 45, 50 steps from our house. We lived on a street called La Vida Terran, Echo Park, Bellevue. There's a bus stop. Then a tunnel goes down. Like I could. From our porch, I could see the bus stop. And I'm look, I could. As I'm robbing, as my dad's robbing. And I'm looking around, I could see my. Where we're going to run to After. And he could see it.
- [50:00]
B
I'm like, wait, dude, and what did you rob from him?
- [50:02]
A
He told me. He told me I was going to get. I'm going to give you something. But he busted a debo on me. He got to do it. And he's like, I'll get you on the next one.
- [50:09]
B
So it was money and he kept it all.
- [50:10]
A
Yeah.
- [50:11]
B
But then you started robbing with your sister later. Later, yeah.
- [50:14]
A
I would rob with my cousin first. Me and my cousin, and then me and my sister. Then my cousin got arrested and my sister, she just flew solo. She wanted to be. She wanted to be in the band. She wanted to do her own thing solo, be a solo artist. And I became a solo artist in Echo Park 2, which is doing my own thing by. I was forced to.
- [50:31]
B
So this was after. I mean, it was during. It was after your procurement career, not during your program. Right.
- [50:37]
A
During the pro career. I was.
- [50:39]
B
And at this point, you were stealing just because you needed money for dope, right?
- [50:44]
A
Yeah.
- [50:45]
B
Was that it?
- [50:45]
A
Skateboard money was gone, right? Yeah.
- [50:47]
B
Do you remember when you realized that there was no more skateboarding money coming? What was that moment like? Did they. Did somebody tell you something like, you're not kicked out?
- [50:56]
A
I fractured my ankle bad. So then I couldn't skate. And that led me to getting high more. And then after that, since I was so used to getting high, my skateboard performance was not the same. And I felt it. I knew it was coming. They were making changes in the company and they were going to can.
- [51:14]
B
What company was this? At the time?
- [51:15]
A
This was called City Stars. It used to be Menace. Menace, the City Stars. And it was all under the world industry umbrella, right, which had Plan B and all these other big companies which.
- [51:26]
B
Were really well known at the time, right.
- [51:27]
A
These were the brands, the biggest in skateboard, in skateboard industry.
- [51:31]
B
And so you were like one of the lucky ones. You were like, amazing that you were part of this team, part of this brand. And so suddenly to find yourself as not part of the brand, not part of a community and a family anymore, must have been really hard.
- [51:42]
A
From 94, I got onto World Minute we started Menace to 2000. In those years, like, we were riding on a wave like we, you know, skateboarding. We. We were like the shit of, you know, they loved us because of who we were, where we came from, and we weren't like the best skateboarders I got, I'll be honest. We weren't doing the, like, innovative tricks and like, nobody's done. It's Just the fact that we. Who we were and our. The personality and who we. Where we come from.
- [52:14]
B
Right. You're a menace. Right. It was like there was something attached to that brand that represented.
- [52:18]
A
Represented what we were. Yeah, I was really true to it.
- [52:21]
B
And so you had. This was a moment where you had, like, little kids coming and asking you for autographs. You had all the girls you wanted. You had checks coming in.
- [52:30]
A
Yeah, man. I've had kids offer me their sisters for a skateboard, and I'm like, man, I can't do that. But what she looked like anyway, that's just wrong.
- [52:40]
B
Northerner.
- [52:41]
A
What's her name?
- [52:41]
B
North, Southern Europe.
- [52:43]
A
I don't know. What's German? We're in France, bro. Like.
- [52:48]
B
And wait, at this point, you've been in jail many, many times?
- [52:51]
A
I've been in jail, yeah. A lot.
- [52:53]
B
Had you been in prison at this point?
- [52:54]
A
No, not yet.
- [52:55]
B
So tell me about the time that you were arrested and went to prison and what. What did you do exactly? My sister was the same sister that you stole with.
- [53:03]
A
So, yeah, she was. You know, someone had. They. They forced sex with her. You know, they try to. They try to have sex with her when she was asleep.
- [53:11]
B
Tried to rape her.
- [53:11]
A
Yeah.
- [53:12]
B
Wow.
- [53:12]
A
And when she came out of it, she called me and she called the rest of the family. And, man, God works in mysterious ways. Because I, like, out of everyone who she told, that guy ended up being in front of me where I was with her and I'm with her friend, this one dude from Orange county, and his name's Patrick. White boy. He had a cast and a black eye. I loved him. He had a cast and a black eye and long, crazy hair. He was like a crazy white boy, you know? Did you know him before he was a gang member.
- [53:42]
B
Did you know who he was before?
- [53:44]
A
I met him through my sister. But I know he's down for my sister, so that's all that matters. Like, he would fight for her and, like. And I would. So I wouldn't.
- [53:51]
B
Oh, sorry. This was the guy that you were with who was going to beat the other guy?
- [53:55]
A
Yeah. So we. Me, me. Where he's driving. I'm in the back seat. My sister's sitting Shaka. And we're driving around my sister. This just happened to my sister. It just happened. So we're driving around and I'm like, we not. We don't have a plan or nothing. Let's just go score. Let's go score and hang out and when we'll sit and we'll. We'll smoke. And the guy's driving past where we're parked. The guy's driving past us, the guy.
- [54:14]
B
Who raped your sister.
- [54:14]
A
And he's like. And. And so she goes, that's him. So he parks. He parked his car. He never saw us. We ducked. Me and my sister ducked. And he don't know Patrick. He don't know who Patrick is. Patrick is driving. So he parked his car, and he was going to the same spot to go and recop. By the time he came out, I had a plan. I told my. I told my homeboy to wait on the side of the car and confronted him. And he was scared. He was like. I confronted him on it. Like, hey, have you seen my sister? You heard what happened to her? And he's like, oh, no, no, no.
- [54:48]
B
Oh.
- [54:49]
A
And his keys were shaking him. He couldn't even open his door. And so I told him, get in the car. Get in. And he got in. And I went in shotgun. And my homie came in the back seat.
- [55:01]
B
Yeah.
- [55:02]
A
And my homie just put the gun he could just towards the back of his head. And he felt like he was gonna get shot or something, you know. And I told him, hey, man, so you don't know what happened to my sister? And he starts saying, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. So I, you know, after hitting them.
- [55:16]
B
A few times, where was your sister at this point?
- [55:18]
A
My sister's in the other car that we came in. We're in his car now. Okay, we in his car. So we start driving. My sister following us. This dude's driving not good. And you know what's crazy? I live a block away from where this all took place. Now, now, now. I live a block away from all the state. Like in Larmont. I live there. So this happened around that area. And he was driving erratic. So we got him off the car. On Beverly and Manhattan right before. Here's western Manhattan, and then there's another street called Van Ness. On Manhattan, there's a gas station. That gas station is still there today. Every day I pass by, I'm like, Damn. And about 4 o' clock in the. In the evening, we made him pull over, get out the car and get in the trunk. And slammed it.
- [56:02]
B
Of his own car.
- [56:02]
A
Of his own car in traffic, passing by, everything going, everybody's moving. Get in the trunk. And now my homie's driving, and I'm sitting shotgun, breaking into the console, trying to get the, like. Because every, Every. Every real dope car back in the day had, like, in the Stereos. You could pull the stereo out, and then there's stash spot back there. And you go in there and you grab. And he had all the dope back there. But remind you, like, I went through him. I. I frisked him. I gave him a cavity. I went to his. Like, I did everything. I would tuk, tick his socks. And. Because, you know, they. They stashed their stuff everywhere.
- [56:36]
B
You know, got him naked, just get.
- [56:38]
A
Him cough and squat like a catcher. So after that, he was banging in the trunk and, like, you know. You know, so we was there a.
- [56:53]
B
Part of you at that point that was feeling bad for him?
- [56:55]
A
Hell no.
- [56:56]
B
Even when he was saying hell no.
- [56:58]
A
Because my. You did this. And my sister was asleep, so.
- [57:01]
B
Sorry to ask, but did he actually. He actually had sex? Raped her?
- [57:05]
A
Yeah. So, no. I was thinking of what we're gonna do, how we're gonna do it, and I didn't want to kill him. I didn't want to kill him. I wanted to. I wanted him to suffer. I wanted him to suffer and maybe like, you know, go through what my sister went through. Feel that? But I'm. Ain't nobody gonna rape you here. But, you know, might put something up your ass, maybe, but I ain't gonna rape you. But it's going to be a gun. You know, I'm not going to. You know, I just didn't want to. I don't know, but I didn't want to kill him. I knew better than that. And then come to find out, like, this dude's yelling in the trunk. So we open the trunk and we beat him up, and then we closed the trunk again. Then we. Me and my. We got in a fight. Like, me and the driver. We lost my sister. My sister goes to the dope spot where we all go to an echo park. Like, there's a. There's this little street they used to have. Like, it was called Pop's House. Pops don't even exist no more. So, you know, it doesn't. Doesn't even matter if I say it used to be a house. It was called Pops. And, you know, everybody went there like a 711 to buy drugs all day, all night. So my sister was there. I'm. I happened to be with this dude still. And, like, I just every so often beat him up, beat him up, beat him up. Got sick of him and just, you know, dropped him off.
- [58:15]
B
So you. You would open.
- [58:16]
A
Drop them off? Yeah.
- [58:17]
B
You'd open the back. Yes, the trunk, you'd beat him up, and then you'd Close the trunk again. And this happened for how many hours?
- [58:24]
A
Like, a day and a half, Two days?
- [58:25]
B
A day and a half?
- [58:26]
A
Maybe three days.
- [58:27]
B
Holy.
- [58:27]
A
And then the dude was like, I thought he was dead. Swear on everything I love. I'd like, oh, my God.
- [58:33]
B
He was bleeding.
- [58:34]
A
Yeah. So dude is. Yeah, he looks like he's. Yeah. I got scared, dropped him off in, like, the harbor area, like, way over there. Blame it on another hood over there. Like, make sure that maybe they could get the blame for this. But, you know, what do we all do? We all go back to mama's house. I drove back to my mom's, and here's a helicopter. And like, every. Every time I passed by a street, there was a car. There was a cop car here. And they would just get behind me, and I'll pass by another street, another cop car behind that cop car, and I'm like. I got, like, a whole parade of cop cars behind me.
- [59:11]
B
So they're chasing you at this point.
- [59:12]
A
But they're not. Oh, but they're not. They're not. They don't have the sirens on. So there's a bunch of cop cars, a parade of cop cars. And then, you know, I'm just like, man, I was on my way to my mom's. I might as well go to my mom's house, you know? So I didn't even make it to Mom's. They cut me off. I went to prison.
- [59:26]
B
Okay, so they were chasing you, or. So some of them were coincidental sirens.
- [59:30]
A
There was no, I believe in a pursuit is like, me driving fast. I was going, like, 20 miles.
- [59:36]
B
They had their.
- [59:36]
A
They were like, 10 cop cars behind me.
- [59:39]
B
Wait, so do you think it was.
- [59:40]
A
Cops were on. But there was no. Like, they weren't like. No, there was none of that.
- [59:45]
B
So it wasn't a Hollywood chase. But they were trying to get to you.
- [59:49]
A
They were definitely on me.
- [59:51]
B
You had. You were driving the car from the guy that you cracked up.
- [59:54]
A
Yeah.
- [59:55]
B
And you were cracked up.
- [59:55]
A
Oh, God. Yeah.
- [59:56]
B
And the guy. Do you think what happened was that the guy went straight to police. To the police after you beat him up?
- [60:01]
A
He was like, yeah, he lived. I'm glad he did. But at the time, I'm just like, oh, they got me for, like, you.
- [60:07]
B
Thought maybe you would kill them?
- [60:09]
A
Whatever. Anything. Yeah. I'm like, oh, man, I'm never going home. So what I do. What I do is I start smoking all my crack in my car with the police, with the police surrounding me.
- [60:19]
B
Shit.
- [60:19]
A
And I'm just, like, lighting Up. Most of my lighters don't work because I'm all sweaty and shit and I'm always dripping, but I'm like, man, there. I could see them detectives. I can see detectives, cop car. They're all far away from me. And they got a helicopter, and now there's people coming out to see me and shit. I'm like, oh, man, I'm done. I'm never. That's it. I'm done. So I might as well take my time and just start smoothing. They're like, come out the car. Show your hands. And I'm just like, hell, no. You know, I ain't showing nothing. I'm just gonna get high and just like, until I got no more. I got out the car and easily just walked backwards. And they got me in the alley right there, right? I grew up. They got me right in Echo Park. And yeah, that's. I went to prison for carjack, kidnap, robbery, and a bunch of other stuff, but those are the main ones.
- [61:08]
B
And that was for how long?
- [61:09]
A
That first stunt, they. They. They want to give me 50 life. They want to give me 50 life. But they broke it down after a year and a half of county jail. So you can imagine a year and a half in the county jail is no joke. You're fighting a case, you think your life is over, and you just got nothing. Like, you. You. You don't give a shit about nothing, you know? So a year and a half of me just wilding out in the kind of job, picking up more time, just going to the hole and stuff, acting up purposely. Purposely?
- [61:35]
B
Yeah. Why?
- [61:36]
A
Because I didn't care. I didn't think I was going to come out and do anything. I thought I was going to be in there for a long time and not just probably get like, I'm probably going to do like 20 years, you know, but, man, God is good. I got seven years.
- [61:49]
B
Wow. Why did you get only seven years? What happened?
- [61:52]
A
Because I had a lady lawyer. Her name was Nadia Shahadi. She was a Lebanese woman, and she used to dress really nice in pink and like, really nice and stuff. Like, I guess she used to turn all the heads in court, right? She went pro bono for me and she got me off the hook. Never forget her.
- [62:09]
B
But she got. Wasn't it because her daughter was.
- [62:11]
A
Her daughter was skating. Her daughter loved you and skateboarding and came to court and would sit behind and like, have all these, like, skate gear and have little signs, right?
- [62:21]
B
So if you think that if you weren't a skateboarder at that Time. You might.
- [62:24]
A
I might have still been. Yeah. I've got canned. Yeah, right. Yeah, I would have got for sure, but.
- [62:29]
B
And those seven years you did them where? Which prison?
- [62:31]
A
Salinas Valley and then to High Desert. Oh, I went to California Men's Colony. Cmc right here by San Luis Obispo.
- [62:39]
B
Which one of those has the biggest problems with Prism Yangs?
- [62:43]
A
Salinas Valley, man.
- [62:44]
B
Yeah. I wanted to ask.
- [62:45]
A
Salinas Valley is. Is the.
- [62:47]
B
The worst.
- [62:48]
A
Yeah.
- [62:49]
B
I've always been curious, like. Like, what is your first day in prison? Yeah. Like, what's that moment that you realize I have to figure out where I fit and. And. And how. How do you act? What's that like?
- [63:02]
A
Yeah, well, getting off the bus before we, like, it was a packed bus when we. When we were taking our trip up there. It's a packed bus, but they're dropping people off at all these prisons, and you're like, oh, man, that's not so bad. You know, these prisons look pretty cool. There's people playing volleyball. They're playing baseball, softball, and basketball. Then they go to another prison and, like, they drop off more people and they're like, oh, man, it's not so bad. Like, there's. There's people running around. But when they. I didn't know that they were not people doing yoga. These are like, yeah, there's. Those were, like, level ones and twos and threes, right? We went to Salinas Valley, and it was Ghost town. Wow. It's right by Solid Dad. Solid dad is here. Across the street is Salinas Valley, and that's level 4A. Level 4. So when they went to school, like.
- [63:40]
B
Secure, level 4 security maximum. Max security.
- [63:43]
A
Yeah, max. So everybody got off and went to Solidad. And I'm like, ours is right up the street. It's cool. It's just like this. Yeah, it's not so bad. Like, I see people shooting hoops and shit. Then we got the speech right here. A big. This big CEO, black dude just came out and said, all right, you guys. Anybody in here who has any kind of smut on your record, you will be found. If you are rapist, child molester, or a snitch, you better let me know now, because you will be found in this prison. I start sexually guessing myself. Like, wait, do I have any of. I never done any of those. But I'm like, I. When you hear that and you're like about. And like you're going into a place, you start going over your own record. Like, I go over my own history. Like, damn, hold On.
- [64:23]
B
Yeah.
- [64:23]
A
Have I done anything foul?
- [64:24]
B
Why do you think they want to know? Because they want to protect you from other prisoners beating them up? Or is it because they want to beat them up themselves? What's the idea?
- [64:32]
A
They're trying to save your life.
- [64:33]
B
They are. They know that you're going to be the target, right? If you're a child molester, you're gonna.
- [64:38]
A
Go in there, and it's gonna be. You're not gonna survive it. These guys will find out. And this is before phones. Now it's worse, right? Because they got these things, right?
- [64:47]
B
So they. They have got phones inside prisons back then.
- [64:50]
A
They didn't have no phones back then. There were. There was no phones. And I'm talking 2001, right? No phones.
- [64:54]
B
And so was there anyone in your bus that said, yes, I'm a child molester?
- [64:59]
A
No, no, no, no, no. Nobody. Nobody's gonna say no. You're gonna say, that's me, sir. No, no. They're gonna be like. As soon as we get in line, they tell you, like, I'm gonna say it one more time. You got anything smut on your record or on your jacket? You. You step to the left now. So I was like, damn. And I said damn to this guy. He was gone. He was already to the left. I gave him my peanut butter sandwiches on the bus, and he was one of them. So I'm like, damn, man. They're really. And he's like, walking.
- [65:26]
B
What do you mean he's. He's one.
- [65:27]
A
He was one of them.
- [65:28]
B
So he did admit that he was a molester or a rapist or something.
- [65:32]
A
Walk. Step to the left now. And go in this cage. And, like, we're standing here.
- [65:35]
B
Oh, my God.
- [65:36]
A
And we don't have no. No shackles on.
- [65:38]
B
Right?
- [65:39]
A
We're not cuffed. So I was like, damn, bro. And he just starts. I'm like, he's walking. I'm like, oh, damn. It's shit.
- [65:46]
B
I just shared my PBJ with this dude.
- [65:48]
A
Yeah. With a chomo or whatever the hell that snitch. Whatever. But, you know, you don't know who's who until you. Until you know.
- [65:54]
B
And then what happens?
- [65:55]
A
We stood in that line. There was only, like, eight of us. We went to another room, and they're playing Gladiator, and I don't know if this on purpose or not. They're playing Gladiator, and I'm like, oh, hell no. Me. Me. I think of life as sign. Like, I take signs I grew up with. Like, I'm looking at signs right now, and that's not a good sign, right?
- [66:09]
B
Like, survival of the fittest, kind of.
- [66:11]
A
That's not a good sign, man.
- [66:12]
B
We just saw one of their own.
- [66:13]
A
We just saw Gladiator, and we're going into a level four prison. This is what they're trying to. They're trying to tell us that we about to get chopped up, Right? From that point on, it's like, you know, your first day of school, you know, that nervousness, it's that times a billion.
- [66:27]
B
Sure, yeah.
- [66:27]
A
Ten times worse than that. Like, and I'll be honest, like, I'm not trying to sound like a tough guy or nothing, because I. I grew up wanting to be tough, you know, And I had to be tough, and I had to pretend I was tough. And my first. Everybody asked me, when did you start acting? The day I hit Selena's Valley. You try to act like you're not scared. Try to act like you're down with the. You try to act like you're not really, you know, like this doesn't face you, or like you're. You're with it, but you're really. You know, at night, you probably cry in your prayers and saying, like, little prayers, and you cry and. Did you just like. Yeah, a lot of times I would. Of course. Yeah, a lot of times I would. You know, I even came to a point where, like, I was in prison in Salinas Valley, and as I was saying my prayers, I started crying. And I don't even know why I started crying. And I was like. I started thinking about all the people that I hurt and everybody I robbed. And I'm clean at this point, and I'm not doing nothing, but it's like, I've done all that for, like, eight. I. I stabbed the guy for $8. You know what I mean? I stabbed a guy and eight bucks. Eight dollars. All he had. Some of them didn't even give me nothing. I just stabbed them and beat him up, and they went. And I took off running. The robbery wasn't successful, but I hurt all these people. And I'm thinking, man, this guy was just making money for whatever his family or himself. It's. Has nothing to do with me. Why do I feel like it's. I'm entitled. So I started. I just. I came to a realization, man. And he's just like, you know, this. I hurt too many people, you know, And I'm. And then to this day. To this day, I still. I still get that feeling. And I got. It humbles me and make you Know, that's why I go to church and I pray and I could go to church and pray and give food away to the homeless and help the needy every single day of my life. It still will make up for what I do.
- [68:07]
B
What made you, what made you come to that realization, you think? Were you doing any sort of work, mental work in prison? Were you seeing a therapist in there? What was, what helped you in there?
- [68:16]
A
They don't have therapy in there. Your therapy is that cell, that TV and the radio. Like you don't got any letters. Maybe you don't got therapy, you don't go to therapy in there.
- [68:24]
B
So what helped, what helped you there?
- [68:29]
A
I think just hearing other people's stories, listening to other people who got life and wish they were in my position to have that little bit of time. I turned 7 years into 9 though, cuz they put a child molester in my cell.
- [68:42]
B
And what did you do to the child molester?
- [68:44]
A
I did what I had to do.
- [68:46]
B
Which was what?
- [68:48]
A
I had to stab him, beat him up.
- [68:51]
B
You, you stabbed? Did. What happened to him? He survived.
- [68:54]
A
You, you had to?
- [68:54]
B
What do you mean you have to?
- [68:55]
A
Well, like, I mean first and foremost I don't, I don't like child molesters and rapists anyway. And I've always been against that. And you know, growing up like ain't no snitch, you know. So anybody they put in here that's no good under the no good news, the bad news list, they got a bad news list. And that list is like this long with baby tiny, right? You ever, you've been, you've been to prisons and you know how, you know the wheelas, right? The little wheelas that they write? You know the tiny writing? Small, little encrypted small writing. Okay, Picture that small tiny writing. And the paper is like a regular sheet of paper and it's filled with names and that there's a bunch of bad people like that have to be stabbed and like that have to. That owe money to for debt.
- [69:38]
B
So it's a list of targets.
- [69:40]
A
Basically there's a guy that comes in my cell and he's a child molester.
- [69:43]
B
Right? What would have happened to you if you hadn't done anything to the child molester?
- [69:46]
A
And if I hadn't done anything to them, then that probably be me, they.
- [69:48]
B
Would have beat you up. Because it's expected if you're sharing a cell with a child molester or a rapist, a person on that target list that you're.
- [69:56]
A
It's expected from a surenio that's what exists. It's expected out of you. You know, that's. That comes with. Without even asking. Right. That's something that. You know.
- [70:03]
B
The Sudanos is like a gang. It's Southern, Southern, Mexican, American.
- [70:10]
A
There are Southsiders, right. And then there's. And it's expected.
- [70:15]
B
And they're Mexican American gangs, right?
- [70:17]
A
Yeah. And you don't have.
- [70:19]
B
And they're big in prison, right?
- [70:20]
A
Yeah. Not necessarily Mexican nowadays. You could be right. You know, as long as you've earned it and put in the work.
- [70:26]
B
Yeah.
- [70:26]
A
Yeah.
- [70:26]
B
Okay. So if you're. If you're. But if you're. If you're black, that's not. That expectation doesn't matter.
- [70:32]
A
Mexican gang, there's blacks against a lot of them.
- [70:35]
B
Okay. But if you're not a Sudan, that's not expected.
- [70:37]
A
You're not a student, you're a cripper Blood. Yeah, it's. It's or expectation or a white faction.
- [70:42]
B
Yeah. From like the Aryan Brotherhood.
- [70:43]
A
Right. You would have to take care of your own people is what I'm saying. You got to take care of your own people. Since you fall raza and you fall Hispanic and you're in my cell, I have to take care of. There could never be another black or a white guy in my cell. I couldn't even sell. Even if you were good, even if you have no smut on your. On your record and you have a good record, you still can't be sealed up with me because I don't. I don't sell up with other races, you know, and that's what it is.
- [71:08]
B
And the people running the prison know that. And that's how they put people together in cells. Right. It's according to those alliances, according to your.
- [71:15]
A
Your group, your faction, you know, all Southern Hispanics on this side, all like, we have our own tables. We have our own side of the yard. Can't walk through there. The whites got their shit, we got ours. The blacks, everybody.
- [71:27]
B
So what percentage of people in prison were minorities? Were blacks and Hispanics?
- [71:32]
A
The majority. The majority, I would say, like. I would say there was probably one slice of that pie that was like, other. Which other being white and Filipino? No, not white. Like Filipino or Asian, Middle Eastern, whatever. That's. Other whites, they got their table. Mexicans got the space and the blacks got their space.
- [71:58]
B
But the majority were blacks and Mexicans.
- [72:00]
A
Yeah, but the whites could hold their own. Before they used to fall under us, they would fall under us and we'd have to. They would ride with us and the.
- [72:06]
B
Majority of them were there there for drug offenses or what were they there for?
- [72:11]
A
No, you're in a number four. You're there for, like, heavy, heavy stuff, murder.
- [72:15]
B
But why do you think it falls so heavily? Why is it so many Mexicans and Hispanics and black people?
- [72:22]
A
Look around. I look around in the city, and most of us are doing that stuff, that type of crime. You know, you don't got too many.
- [72:29]
B
I think what I was trying to get at with the question about who was a majority of the people in prison is because, as we know, you know, the war on drugs has caused this mass incarceration. I think we're the. The country in the world with the biggest, the highest number of incarcerated people. I think it's 2 million people or something. It's insane. And a lot of it is because of drug offenses. And I think when you talk, I know you're involved a little bit in prison reform, and this is something that you've caused, that you've started, that's become close to you. Right, right. And I think part of it is like, you can't talk about prison reform without talking about, you know, the insanity that has been the war on drugs, which has been billions of dollars spent in putting people who sometimes just are carrying, you know, a little bit of weed and put them in prison for a long time and where they learn to become than actual criminals. Right.
- [73:18]
A
I was in prison with a guy named Vampiro from Pomona, good dude in Salinas Valley. He got caught with a little bit of dope. I think it was meth or maybe crack or something, but it was like a 20. And they struck him out.
- [73:32]
B
Struck him out. It was the first strike.
- [73:33]
A
Yeah, they struck him out. And he was in there for like, already when I met him, he had already got like 10 years, 12 years in.
- [73:40]
B
Right.
- [73:40]
A
I think he's home now. I would like to see.
- [73:42]
B
That is home. It's so unfair. Right?
- [73:45]
A
Yeah.
- [73:45]
B
And then you have like, white collar crime and, you know, the owners of Purdue Pharma and people who didn't do a single day in prison, who, you know, in many cases, and they're.
- [73:57]
A
Exactly. So that's, that's, that's the whole crazy thing about this. You know, it becomes a street drug. From a pharmaceutical over the counter to a street drug. That's what happened to MacArthur park, and that's what happening inside the pen. And so now there's a rule in jail. When I was there, it was enforced. And when I was in prison, we don't want no homies getting high because we don't want you piecing up. And you know what PC is, right? When you're protective custody. Oh, when you snitch, you have to debrief. You go in a room and you debrief and then you start talking about whatever, right? And then now you're, you've, you've debriefed and you can't go back to the GP general population yard. You got to go to a protective custody, right?
- [74:34]
B
Because.
- [74:35]
A
Which is sensitive needs, right? And now you're in a yard with a bunch of wacky people who, who have like, you got rapists, child molesters, snitches and dropouts and everything else under the sun that has done bad in those type of prisons where I was at in the GP yards, now they're in those yards and it's a free for all getting. You don't have to like mandatory. Got to wake up at 4 o' clock in the GP, right. You got to wake up at early, put your shoes on, roll your bed up, get ready. Even if you don't leave, you got to sit there and just be in case those doors open and we got get out, there's. There's more out there. So we might have to get up and get out. Get out the door and fight. If those doors crack, you better get out. You get out and you go and you see who's out there. If someone that we got got beef with, you have to run at them and get, go get them.
- [75:22]
B
So you're like in survival mode 24 7, like military.
- [75:26]
A
Yeah, you better, you gotta get up and you better have in every cell packing a shank. Everybody gots one.
- [75:34]
B
You had one too. Everyone has.
- [75:35]
A
We have to.
- [75:36]
B
Where. How do you get those?
- [75:37]
A
Man, they're, they'll pass them out to you like candy.
- [75:39]
B
Like, hey, you buy them, you have to buy it.
- [75:41]
A
You ain't gotta know. They'll just give you one. They'll just give it to you. In a level four, Everybody, every cell has to have. When I was there, when I was there, you had to have a knife. One of you's gotta take turns carrying it up your rectum. One, you both gotta take turns.
- [75:57]
B
Wait, it's up your butt. That's how you. You keep the.
- [76:00]
A
That's the prison wallet. You never leave home.
- [76:02]
B
You have something protected around it. I'm assuming so, yes.
- [76:05]
A
Well, yeah. Or else you'll be bleeding out your coolo, you know? Yeah. You gotta make like a little soft, roundish, smooth, smooth. Something to go in.
- [76:14]
B
It's probably with, like, toilet paper or what do you.
- [76:17]
A
Well, I would wet cardboard.
- [76:20]
B
Okay.
- [76:20]
A
And then. But that makes it thick. And then it's like. So you gotta crush it and make it small so it's like, damn, you don't want to be.
- [76:27]
B
And then. How big is this thing?
- [76:29]
A
Hey, hey. Go smaller than that. Come on. Now. What do you think this is?
- [76:34]
B
So it's about a palm. A palm.
- [76:36]
A
I would say it's. I had some. About this big. Okay, so about this big. But then what I do is about five. A little small handle. The small handle. And then here's the part I'm a pokey with. Okay, so.
- [76:47]
B
So at about 4 inches.
- [76:48]
A
Damn. Salud to the people who are doing it like, Mariana. Like that. Golly. That's a sword. They call you the trash can.
- [76:56]
B
You make it smaller. So, okay, so you were. You had to put. You had to have this with you at all times. And you were hiding it, and that was in case. How often did you have to actually use.
- [77:05]
A
First of all, you got to get to it. It's hard to get to, right?
- [77:08]
B
To get it off out of your.
- [77:09]
A
Ass, like, and discharge it. Like, put the. Push a button here and it just pops out. No, it don't work like, the way you.
- [77:15]
B
So how does it work? You have to go to the bathroom?
- [77:16]
A
You have to. Well, you better cop a squat somewhere and push like you're giving birth. And it might come out messy. And, you know, if you smell Taka coming, then you know someone's going to get stabbed.
- [77:27]
B
Oh, really? Is that a thing that uses. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Shit.
- [77:32]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been in lines where, like, man, that smells shit. That smells like.
- [77:36]
B
Like, I knew.
- [77:38]
A
And then I was behind me there. Or been in front of me. There were like. I think it was behind me, but the wind of the. We're in a. We're in a corridor where, like, the prison opens up and, like, to go out, you have to go through where the guards go up, and then to go to the chow hall. Every. Every prison, every two blocks share the same chow hall. So you have a chow hall that you got to go to. And it's like the wind. If you open up the door, you know, the wind is just. You can smell everything. It's like. And so I remember, like, a couple of us looked at each other like, you fart, homie? Nah, smell like shit. And then, like, a second later, and it's like that. That's. That's. I've learned that if you smell that, it's because they get out of there.
- [78:19]
B
So how often did you have to use one of these? How often did you have to stab somebody in prison?
- [78:25]
A
There we go. Mariana, you don't want any. I'm not on traffic there. God damn it. God. Oh, put a mask on.
- [78:31]
B
You don't need.
- [78:32]
A
I want my voice. I didn't do nothing at the time.
- [78:35]
B
Mariana, we have a box of masks if you need one.
- [78:39]
A
Yeah, here we go. Trying to make me stitch?
- [78:41]
B
Just tell me, okay. No, you did it with a child in the mask.
- [78:45]
A
I used it about, like, all in all or just that one time in, like, my one stint?
- [78:50]
B
All in all.
- [78:51]
A
Oh, wow. I had a knife on me all the time.
- [78:55]
B
In prison or. You mean in prison. Okay, so you use it a lot.
- [78:58]
A
Yeah, and I kept it on me because I know. I know how it goes in here.
- [79:02]
B
And in your mind, were you sort of moralizing it as something that you're doing it to the bad guys, or what was in your. Or just. Because I'm doing it because this is protection.
- [79:11]
A
Yeah, Strictly for protection. Bad guys, we're all around good guys. We're all. We're all supposed to be in this yard, and we're all, like, soldiers.
- [79:17]
B
Right, but were you doing. Is it also, like, a show of force you're showing the other. Other people, like, don't come at. Because I'm. I'm fucking dangerous?
- [79:24]
A
Yeah. Well, if you. If you. If you think you're gonna swing on me and hit me, I'm gonna stick you. So I'm not gonna fight fair. I'm not gonna. Nobody fights fair. And I'm not gonna. I'm always gonna try to up one. I'm always ahead of it. If you think you're gonna swing on me, I'm gonna stab you. Unless you call me out for a fair fight. I'll go in a cell with you, and then we'll see who wins.
- [79:44]
B
Let's talk about better, funner things, about prison. What in prison sort of helped you become the person because you. You've did a poll. 180, right. You've changed, or I.
- [79:54]
A
About front side. 184. Yeah.
- [79:56]
B
So what. What was it something. What was it in prison that sort of helped you, you know, mentally be healthy?
- [80:02]
A
Just make. Mostly just me leaving these guys behind, and, like, there's some really cool, good dudes in there, and they. They should get a shot out here, and they can, and that's it about, like, my life in there. Like, how can I. How. How would I be growing old and gray. And being there, it just like, you know, your body deteriorates. The water you drink sucks, the food sucks. You got this air conditioning that's like this nonstop air that comes in your cell. It's probably regenerated and bad, but I don't know if you've ever had these little things when you're young or small, but I've always saw myself, like, as a kid, and I knew I was something. I was gonna do something good or do something big or not. Not. And not big in that world, but big in this world, you know, And. And I just knew that I would watch shows like Silver Spoons and like, Ricky Schroeder. Like, man, I could be Ricky Shorter or.
- [80:56]
B
Or like, you had ambition, like, you had dreams.
- [80:59]
A
I never knew how my mother and father never knew any kind of resources to get me into this. Like, not even, you know, I want to do karate before Karate Kid came out. I want to do karate because I want to learn how to fight. And my dad was, like, teaching me how to box and wanted me to be a boxer and grow up, be like him, you know, he wanted me to be good, but at the same time, he also wanted me to. Me not to be a punk. So when I was in the second grade, this kid was taking my money. His name was Matthew. And he was taking my money, and he was taking all my money all the time. And this is when my. My dad first came home from prison. And I didn't. I didn't know how to tell my dad that I was getting my money taken without sounding like a little sissy. But when I did tell him, you know, I had a Fonzie lunch pail, and my hair was like, Fonz. You know, I liked little cut to the head. And my. My. I told my dad, and he was like, who's taking your money? And he was mad. You let them. You're letting them take your money. I go, I'm not letting him. He's just taking it. He's bigger than me, and he has a friend, and I don't. You know, my dad said, give me your pencil. This is what you do. And he sharpened it with the knife in the kitchen. And he sharpened it and he goes, you feel that? Now look, you. Next time he does that, he got my hand and he. He demonstrated how to stab someone. And I'm in the second grade. I'm like. Like this. I was like, yeah, you stab that. You stab him and he won't take your money no more. You stab him. Because I'M not gonna raise no little punk. And that. And. And don't let him take your money no more. And if I find out you let him take your money no more, then I'm. You're in trouble with me. So. Right the next day, Matthew comes and I didn't do nothing. He. He took it. He took my stuff and I didn't have the heart to do it. So I. I go back home and I told him I lied and told my dad that I did it. And my dad gave me the biggest hug and kiss and he told me, I love you. And I never heard that before from him. And he was like, I love you, mijo. I'm proud of you. And he gave me a hug and a kiss and he told me, like, yeah, that, that's. And my. My mom was against it. She was like, why are you teaching them this shit? But she could have. She didn't try to stop it, but she would complain from poor. I know, but, you know, my dad was, like, proud of me. And I was like. The first time I got, like, a real love from my father, but I lied. So the next day I went to school. Matthew got next to me. As soon as he sat there, I stabbed him with the pencil in the shoulder and the forearm. And I went to principal's office. The lady from the recess got in front of me and took me by my arm. Took him. And he had, like little grave marks on him from being poked with the pencil. Pencil broke, but I didn't do a great job. But I poked him and he won't fuck with me no more. So I went to the principal's office and I seen the parents of the kid and my dad. They had to call my neighbor. We didn't have a phone. We had some hippie neighbors downstairs. I used to play with the little white girl. I used to always make her cry because I liked her. And my dad, they told my dad. My dad came walking in and mind you, my dad went to the Marines. He was making him a choice. You go to high school. I mean, you go to prison or Marines. He took the Marines. So with the Marine mentality and prison mentality, you know, he walked into that principal's office and I was just like. I was scared because I was like. I didn't know what to expect. I was like. I was happy because, like, I did what you told me to do, but I. I lied yesterday. Yeah, but. And then he comes in and he looks at me. You know when you get that look like the principal and he Looked at him goes. He goes, sir, your son. And he goes, hey, wait, hold up, hold up. You know what? My son was doing something that he. That he protected himself. And if this kid was. If this kid's parents would have showed him better and not to be robbing from my kid. You better watch who you're stealing from next time. He said it all, my. He was like, yeah, talking to the parent. There are paisitas. They were like, oh, my God. They were like, you know, paisas. And I could tell they were, like, looking at my dad all like. And he goes, yeah, that's right. And you know what? You tell your kid not to up my son no more, or else he'll get it again. And if. As far as the principal, he goes, hey, look, don't. Don't worry. I'll take care of my son. He knows what he did, you did wrong, and I'm gonna take care of him. But you told me to do this. So I immediately start like. Like, I was, like, crying because I'm like, oh, my. He's gonna really kick my ass, right? I'm really gonna get it. But I'm confused because you told me to do it, but then now you're telling me I'm gonna get right. You're in trouble. So when he got out, I was, like, crying. He was like. He swung me around, he picked me up, and he goes, I'm proud of you. Shut up. Stop crying. Stop crying. And then, like, he goes, oh, I don't care if you do this again. Just don't let nobody mess with you. And that's been my motto ever since growing up. Like, you know, I would always have to pull out something, and I've. Next, I would stab another guy. At 13 years old, I stabbed a drug dealer, a Cuban drug dealer. And it was in the 80s, and I'm 13 years old, and this dude's like. He has his partner with his twin brother. And, like, that little faction that Cubans wanted to get me, but they didn't because my dad was. They didn't want to mess with my father. And everything that he was doing, he's a part of. And, you know, my kind, we got ties to, like, everything on our side. And then the Cubans were doing business with my dad. So there was a Cuban named Lucio who my dad knew and doing business with who actually spoke to the guy that I stabbed in his family and calmed him down. He couldn't go to the hospital, so I stabbed him with one of. I had a collection of Knives, I'm telling you, I was like. Thought I was Rambo, you know, I like, collect nines. I had the Rambo night, too. So I. I think I was low key. Just my dad was training me to be, like, I don't know. But I didn't. I ended up skateboarding and becoming an actor. But I had to go through it, though. You know, My father is the biggest influence in my life. Growing up, my father was probably the biggest influence until I could. I realized that unintentionally, he's teaching me all these wrong things. Things unintentionally, he's trying to keep me to survive, to be strong, and to live out here. But at the same time, it prepared me for prison, right? It prepared me for a lifetime of jail, prison, and doing all that crazy stuff that I had to do in there. And I.
- [86:52]
B
It came like, you were ready.
- [86:54]
A
Yeah. So I didn't really have a. The only thing I. I wasn't ready for was putting that knife inside your rectum. Putting in your butt, like, just the stash. I'm like, wait, I didn't know about that part. That's a different part of the game right here. But you have to. You know, and then. And I. I was one of the ones that, oh, man, that's gay. And I said that to somebody, right? And that person said, and he was a gangster, an older dude. And he goes, so you calling me gay? And I go, no, but. But I'm just saying what we're. What we do in it. I call it survival. Because you'll be thinking differently once you're in the hospital and you're. You got a bobby pin or a handcuff key in your mouth and a knife up your ass, and that's how you roll in prison.
- [87:36]
B
Echo, I have a question actually, for you about if you're a child molester, if you're a rapist, all those stuff, you get targeted in prison. Right. Completely unrelated to your story, but do you think that Jeffrey Epstein might have been killed by somebody inside the prison, by another prisoner because he was a target, because he'd been messing around with young girls?
- [87:58]
A
I don't think so, because I think someone else killed him.
- [88:03]
B
Okay.
- [88:03]
A
I think the guards maybe had something to do with letting people go in there and do their thing.
- [88:07]
B
But. But, okay, because he. Jeffrey Epstein, did he hang himself?
- [88:10]
A
Is that what they're saying? They're saying that, right?
- [88:12]
B
Yeah, they're saying that he didn't hang himself. Yeah. But Jeffrey Epstein aside, if you are. If you had been Messing with younger girls. And you're in prison, you're a big target. And that's what eventually a statutory rape, right? Even a statutory rape.
- [88:25]
A
Yeah.
- [88:26]
B
And this was what led you to then go from a seven year sentence to a nine year sentence because you stabbed the child.
- [88:34]
A
Because the guy who came in here, he was way bigger than me and he was heavier than me. And this dude was built, he was older than me, more tatted up. And you would never think that he had five counts of child molestation on an eight year old boy. Totally like, what. This is a guy that we all look, try to be like, when did you learn this?
- [88:52]
B
Who told you this?
- [88:53]
A
Yes, it came in a kite. And you trust these people? Right? I'm not going to. Look, look, I know a lot of people give false information that could get you in a wreck. And maybe they got a, maybe they're, they don't like that guy. So they'll, you know. But this came from a liable source.
- [89:08]
B
Okay? And the kite, kite came and said like, this guy raped or molested.
- [89:13]
A
This guy's got to go. I found out later, they just told me he's got, he's, he's got to go. And he got three days to do it. He got to go on this certain day. So I waited till the last day. I couldn't even sleep. I'm trying to formulate a plan, like, how do I get this guy who's this big and like, like, like 60 pounds heavier than me? 70 pounds.
- [89:30]
B
So how did you do it?
- [89:31]
A
He gave him drugs. I got him high.
- [89:34]
B
On what?
- [89:35]
A
Heroin. And then when, then when, like when he was coming down, when he was coming down like he wanted to get up, I got, I got him down there and then while he was asleep and he was, he was coming in already. He came in already kind of high. He was high already. And when you're high and you got Malias, you're, you're, you're kicking. The drug is withdrawal. So he was going through that and I got him. I thought I, I did that thinking he was good. I got that. Hey, can I get a papel like I told the homies, And I went, I'll pay you later. This dude's going through it. So I gave him that thinking, he's a good homie.
- [90:10]
B
Okay?
- [90:11]
A
While he was asleep, I start fishing, you know, under the door. I start fishing my, my line. You know what a line is? When you throw your line under the door to fish with another, to communicate with another self. Okay, Do a line like, you Get a little toothpaste. The end of it, you tie it to a string, you wrap it and you throw it under the door so that you could connect. And then they come, you, they. They tie on. And now you're going back and forth, sending each other kites. And they're telling me, this dude's got to go. And I write back like, I'm like, what? Can't talk? Because I wake him up. So it's very frustrating. And you're just like going back and forth. So then it comes back, I got the kite saying, hey, man, this dude's got to go. He's. He can't be on this yard. I'll tell you later. But it's bad, very bad. And that's all I needed to know.
- [90:55]
B
And so what did you do then?
- [90:59]
A
I. I'm a respectable and I'm not a chicken shit kind of guy. I'm not going to hit you while you're asleep. I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to knock you out and try to stab you when you sleep. I think this guy was so big, he probably would have. Probably would. Woke up and got me. I had to find the right time, you know. And then at the time they sent me a blade, a long shank. So I had to fix it and you know, and then, yeah, after doing that, and then I had to fix it up and put the handle on it. And then he was still like, I would talk to him and I. And I just thought, like, man, how am I going to. That guy, two days to do this, bro. Like, that's crazy. So I don't know, man. I don't like to. I don't want to cheap shot nobody, but I want to give him this right, dude, you know, I know what he's got coming and I know what. I know what I got to do to you and I know that I have to do this. And I pray to the man upstairs again. Like I used to pray before my robberies in the street. Now I'm praying to stab people right here. And I'm like, I say a little prayer just to get me through. Get me through this, please, without killing them and without get me getting hurt. I don't want to kill him. I just to don't want, you know, I just know I need to. I need to do this or else I'm. I'm in trouble. So I made, I made a hot pot of water. I don't even drink coffee at this time. I don't drink no coffee. Because everybody likes it. Black coffee. Dark, like mud, like oil.
- [92:12]
B
I hate it.
- [92:12]
A
Motor oil. I can't drink more. I like. Mine's all, like, me, too. Starbuckies. Like, I'm.
- [92:17]
B
Oh, you're a Starbucks. I'm like the Nescafe, like, the instant coffee. Very light.
- [92:21]
A
Okay. I like all that good stuff, all that crazy, like, lavender.
- [92:26]
B
Oh, I don't.
- [92:27]
A
Yeah, it sounds pretty fruity, but, yeah, I love that stuff. I love. It sounds Silver Lake all the way, but, yeah, but, you know, I. I, I. I never drank coffee, but I. I had some fake burritos that I made. I. I got some tortillas, and I put some stuff together to make it look like it's burritos. But he'll never get to open it, and I'll never get to open that, and I'm gonna make sure of that. But I had them there, and they look like they're burritos. They look like they're stuff. I had him sitting there, and I told him, hey, man, when you wake up, come on, you got to get up. Let's get up and, you know, let's work out and let's get some coffee. And he's like, oh, my. Leah. I was like, I can't. I need another paper.
- [93:03]
B
Heroin. Another shot.
- [93:04]
A
Another paper. And I had my knife. I had my shank in my boot, and I was wearing nothing but shorts, and I had my gloves on, you know, because I was a workout gloves. And we're putting it. We're about to do burpees, and I go, we're gonna do pistons. When I go down, up. You go down, up, down. Burpee. I go burpee. You know, we're going. And the cell's only so far, so I figured, like, it's probably like, a 12ft, but, like, when you go down, it's 12 by 8, so, you know, you only got so much space. We're kind of in each other's way. And so when he went down, I got the hot pot. It was boiling.
- [93:38]
B
Oh.
- [93:39]
A
Threw the water on him, and then I started stabbing him. And we.
- [93:41]
B
And what happened to him?
- [93:42]
A
He started fighting back, but he. I had the best of them already. And then, like, he's tried to fight back, but.
- [93:47]
B
And then did he go to the.
- [93:48]
A
Yeah, we all went to the hole. We both went to the hole.
- [93:50]
B
And he didn't. He wasn't taken to the hospital.
- [93:52]
A
He was taken to the hot. Yeah, he had to get patched up. And I had a couple abrasions, but nothing. Because we were him, he was just trying to kill me with his hands, but I was already, you know, I was already on him.
- [94:03]
B
And what was the hole like?
- [94:05]
A
He got stabbed, like 27 times.
- [94:07]
B
Holy.
- [94:08]
A
And yeah, by sick to, like, 11. We're pretty bad. Yeah. And.
- [94:13]
B
But he didn't die, which was good for you.
- [94:15]
A
Didn't die. Great. Yeah, great news for me. But, you know, and even better for me because I did it and. And I was happy that I got away with it and I'm still alive and I didn't care how much time I got. I didn't care about nothing. I just wanted to make sure that I did this and I did this job and I did it right for my survival. So when I go wherever I go, that I'm safe because I. I, like, unlike a lot of other people and families, I still got to go home. And when I go home, my family, to this day, my family is still involved in the street shit. And they know what prison is like, and they know if you're. You know, it's just like a thing. Like, I have to make my dad proud all the time. I want my dad to be proud of me, you know, like, it's one of those. Yeah, I've always looked for my dad and my mom's approval, Right. And my dad is, like, you know, he's always been, like, feared by people and, like, they love him, but if you're at the same time, you know, his crazy temperature, you know, so it's something that you just feel like, to hell with prison, because I'm never going to see these guys again. But I do got to go home and face my family and live with my family, and I want them to be happy and proud of me, what I did. And I'm also doing it because, like, you know, in here, this moves you up.
- [95:23]
B
Right? What was that like, by the way, like, when you finally left prison the first day? And what was. What were you. What were you afraid of going back to normal life after being locked up for so long? I mean, nine years is a long time. How are you going to back. Adapt, back to normal life? What was that like?
- [95:37]
A
Yeah, I'm just afraid of. Of going back. And what am I going to do to keep up out here? What am I going to do to keep up with the Joneses, man? Like, I'm a skater, but I'm too old to skate, too old to go back into full pro again, which I'm already. Which now I am. I'm going back into it, and I'm pro For a company right now.
- [95:58]
B
No way.
- [95:58]
A
Yeah, a company called Madrid.
- [96:00]
B
Great.
- [96:01]
A
And I'm getting a guest board from dgk. Dirty Ghetto Kids.
- [96:05]
B
Wow.
- [96:05]
A
So they're doing that in December, and I'm getting. And my board's coming out in December for Madrid.
- [96:09]
B
Amazing program.
- [96:11]
A
But I'm Grandpa pro. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm OG Pro. Like, I don't have to deal with all that. Going to get footage and all that stuff. I could do it at my own pace. They're doing it because of my name or whatever.
- [96:20]
B
Yeah.
- [96:21]
A
And it's cool. And I'm blessed for that and I'm happy, but I don't need to kill myself. No, I still.
- [96:27]
B
You still got bruised up.
- [96:29]
A
Yeah, you should see my knees and my back, man. But, you know, it's part of something I love doing. I love doing. And I'll keep falling till the day I die. I don't care. It's how you get back up. You can fall as much as you want. What matters is how you get up and what you do next.
- [96:47]
B
So tell me about your 180 and how you changed and what helped you change and what is important for you these days.
- [96:53]
A
You know, like I told you earlier, I think the stories that these guys have told me in there, like.
- [96:59]
B
Yeah.
- [96:59]
A
And a lot of guys talk to me because they know that I'm a skater and I'm gonna go out and get in. And I told them I'm gonna get into film, I'm gonna get into movies, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna get in that. I'm be an actor. And a lot of them are like, all right. And then a lot of them are just, like, supportive. You know, they're just like an actor. All right, whatever. But a lot of them. Some of these guys will be like, I got a book you should read, and trying to help you, you know? And, like, while you're asking for that book or getting that book, they'll tell you. And then I've had sit down and eat with these guys and. And, you know, they. They've lived their lives like they didn't get a chance. They never got that chance. They never got a second chance. Never got a third chance. I believe in fourth, fifth, sixth chances. That's why I'll never give up on my brother. Because my brother has. You know, he's fighting his addiction and he's trying to make it out there. But I don't ever give up. I might stray away. I might back up because I Got things to do. But I'm not going to give up, and I'm not going to give up. I just have to back up because I can only take so much, man. And, like, it does get to me.
- [97:57]
B
So do you think, in a way, it was you trying to sort of realizing that maybe it wasn't so much that you owed it to yourself, but you owed it to these guys who are there for life, that you needed to become something different?
- [98:07]
A
Want to know something? Some of these guys have hit me up from Pelican Bay, and they see me in Flaming Hot, and they see me on the Mayans, and they're just proud, man. And that. That's, like, a big thing, you know?
- [98:20]
B
Yeah.
- [98:21]
A
I get a lot of joy from that because they're like, man, I'm proud of you. You really, really went out there and did what you said we were gonna do, you know? Yeah.
- [98:28]
B
In many ways, it's also hope for them. Right. To know that somebody who was in there could be.
- [98:32]
A
And that's what I want to give them. I want to give them that chance to, like, see what if I could do it? You could do it, but you got to come home first. You just got to come home, man.
- [98:42]
B
So you're involved in that sort of. What are you involved in?
- [98:45]
A
Arc?
- [98:46]
B
Yeah, tell me about it.
- [98:47]
A
Anti Recidivism Coalition got founded by Scott Budnick. And actually, Scott Budnick used to come to my cell in Pelican Bay.
- [98:55]
B
And ARC stands for Anti Recidivism, right? Yeah, Recidivism, just for people, if they don't know what this means, is basically not going back to prison, being able to stay out. Recidivism is just staying out is because there's a enormous. It's like 60 to 80. What was. What's the numbers? Like, really high percentage of recidivism in. In America. Right.
- [99:15]
A
It's the revolving door that never ends. And, you know, I actually have. My family has been victims of recidivism just because of the thought the way we process things and the way we grew up, you could get out of it, man. But you got to be. You got. It starts with you. And I. I love the fact that I could go today and pick up these guys who did, like, 30 years. I picked up this dude who did 30 years the other day and 30 years and three months. And my boy Louie, he spent all his time like.
- [99:52]
B
That's the guy who did 30 years. 30 years.
- [99:55]
A
30.
- [99:55]
B
30 years.
- [99:56]
A
And he's so. He has nothing but life and happiness and, like, he's so like, oh, wow. Like he's willing to learn.
- [100:05]
B
And, and how did you meet him?
- [100:07]
A
I picked him up from AR with arc. I do the Write Home program.
- [100:11]
B
So ARC is basically a way to connect people who have done time in.
- [100:15]
A
Prison and bring them home and get you in our program and get in our facility, get in the computer, become a member, and then from there you can flourish to go. And you could just intern and wait for something to happen. If you got nothing going on, if you don't know what you want to do, you could be an intern and hang out. If you hang around the barbershop long enough, you're bound to get a haircut, you know, and you just stick around and be around good people, man, that are trying to do good stuff, that been through it, like me and like everyone else up there.
- [100:40]
B
Because that, it's that transition, it's the hardest. Right. Which is why so many people end up doing what they were doing before going to prison and go back. Going to.
- [100:48]
A
Because all they give you is $200 and, and a patent back until you get on. Now they give you a pack, a pack of Narcan. They give you Narcan 200 gate money and buy. And the county jail in LA, they don't give you nothing but Narcan and. All right, bye. And Narcan, what's that? When you get one Narcan and you don't even explain how to use it. First of all, you got to read the instructions, but they don't explain to you what it's for. And there's no programs in the county jail that are helping you get better, by the way.
- [101:16]
B
Narcan being in case you have an overdose.
- [101:20]
A
And. Yeah, barking will bring you back from an overdose.
- [101:22]
B
Bring you back from an overdose. Usually from opioids.
- [101:24]
A
Yeah.
- [101:24]
B
Yeah. It's interesting, you were saying. Yeah, that, that transition and how important it is to have some sort of support when you come out of prison. I mean, particularly if you're doing 30 years in prison, which is crazy. It's. It reminds me, I watched Shawshank Redemption recently. Yeah, but remember the guy, the guy, he leaves prison after decades and he.
- [101:42]
A
Writes his name on the thing and he hangs himself because he can't commit suicide.
- [101:45]
B
He doesn't have a life outside of, of prison.
- [101:47]
A
Yeah, see, that's the thing. My uncle, one of my uncles, Dirty Ernie. Ernie Sandoval from Sotel.
- [101:53]
B
Yeah.
- [101:54]
A
He. He didn't. He. He couldn't. He didn't know how to behave, I guess, like act out Here or whatever. But like now he's passed, but he did most of his time, he's like 60 something years old. Did as a juvenile all the way to adults. He probably, you know, majority of time in prison. So he was the man in prison.
- [102:12]
B
Right.
- [102:12]
A
And you come out here and you. Yeah.
- [102:14]
B
You're struggling, you know, which is why programs like this are so important.
- [102:18]
A
Yeah, yeah. Because this program could lead you to get a future and get a trait, you know, like a real trait. Not. Not just like a job. You have a career move, you know, and arc could set you up, like. And there's exciting jobs, like good jobs, and a lot of them are desk jobs, but you can get an exciting job working in. In a. In a film crew and being camera guy, grim, whatever, you know, they'll teach you that stuff.
- [102:46]
B
How did the acting job come for you? Like, how did that actually happen?
- [102:49]
A
So I. I was dating a stripper.
- [102:54]
B
This is after prison.
- [102:55]
A
After prison.
- [102:56]
B
Okay.
- [102:57]
A
I was dating this girl, she was a stripper. I like to call them dancers because they need that respect, you know? Yeah, they're dancers.
- [103:03]
B
They're pretty good. Just like some are really good. Yeah.
- [103:07]
A
Entrepreneurs, you know what I'm saying? Gangsters are opportunists.
- [103:11]
B
It's a job.
- [103:11]
A
So it's a job. And she was a dancer, and a great one, too. And she. Her dad. I was. I just came home. Her dad was. He passed away. But for years he was background. He was background in Terminator, the background in a lot of like big, big, big movies. And I was like, oh, wow, that's cool. She goes, maybe you should try that. And she went into her old shoebox and got her dad's stuff. And fast forward. She sent me to North Hollywood to go to this acting school. And the acting school in North Hollywood, even I knew it was a joke. Even I know. I'm like, I'm. I'm not sitting here just about to let smoke go up my ass more. I had so many things up my ass. I don't need more smoke. You know what I'm saying? That's a motherfucking. There's real traffic in here. You know what I'm saying? You could do a show on my Cool, Tony. So I go to this acting class and they're like. I'm like, what? It's. It's. I'm. I'm not even going to tell you what they were saying, but it was like there was this six quick step, happy, sad, neurotic, crazy. And it's right. And I'm like, and then you throw me a line. How's your day today? How's your day today? How's your day today? How was your day today? You know, it's like so crazy.
- [104:31]
B
Like, I'm like acting for six year olds.
- [104:32]
A
I've been, I've been. I just came out of prison. I'm like, right? I could smell bullshit when I. I know it. I'm like, this is wrong. I don't know why I'm coming here. This is my second class here. And I'm like, I got nothing better to do, though. They finally get me up to do a scene with a girl, and guess what? I'm playing a pimp. A drug dealer pimp. And the only ones I know, drug dealer pimps, they don't. They wouldn't say. I said, first of all, they wouldn't say this. If I'm a Pip, they wouldn't say this. Can I change it around, right? Can I make it mine? And I did that on my own. Didn't even know acting or nothing. I just said, hey, like, this sounds funny. It sounds like some weird shit. Let me, let me make it. And I rehearsed with the girl and the rehearsal didn't go. Nothing like what I was going to do on there. Because I go, this is just a rehearsal. I guess we're just gonna. But up there, I got into character, man.
- [105:19]
B
Wow.
- [105:20]
A
Pulled out my pip stick. No, I'm joking. But I. I just went into full Figueroa mode, you know?
- [105:26]
B
Figueroa mode?
- [105:27]
A
Yeah.
- [105:27]
B
Pimp mode.
- [105:28]
A
Yeah, yeah, pimp out. So I grabbed her and I was like, what, bitch? And I'm like. And she got. She broke character. Well, so she broke character.
- [105:36]
B
She got scared. She thought you were serious.
- [105:37]
A
She's like, oh, I'm sorry, wait. And I was like, we stopped, like. And the guy was like, there was a guy sitting in there and he's like, hey, man, you look like you sold drugs before, right? You've sold drugs. And I'm like, you've been to jail. I'm gonna. Yeah, man. Why? I'm doing a movie. I want you to, you know, if you want to be in it. And, like, you can play one of the guys. And then when I come, I show up. That day I showed up, we had to all meet here and we didn't get paid nothing to go do this guerrilla film that was super low budget. And his Iranian director, and he's from Iran, and he's like, hey, I want you to say something to her. Tell her something like. And he Said something corny like how much money is in the bag? Or whatever. And I like, you know, and I was just like, I don't know if I could say that. I don't even know if I should say that. Like, I don't think I would. Look at me and I'm like, that, that's not going to come out of my mouth. And then I just said something else and he was like. And I started thinking like, dude, Hollywood be writing some weird stuff. Like the low budget Hollywood, you know, they write some weird stuff. Like I'm. I kind of. I wouldn't do that if I was a gangster. And like, I don't consider myself a gangster. So if I'm playing one, I know that's right. I got schooled by the real good ones, right? So I'm gonna say something different, something that they would say. And I've always been a good person to imitate. Like, I've imitated all my friends. I used to clown and act like them. And I've done, you know, all my life I've been a class clown. You know, my, my first real prison term. My first term, I won't say prison was three years in the ninth grade. Three years in the ninth grade. I had a mustache and like a wristband from the county jail. And I was like, already, you know, a grown ass man with all these ill ninth graders. And I'm stuck in this class and felt like a damn adult in the class, you know?
- [107:24]
B
Wait, you were doing time in jail at that when you were in ninth grade?
- [107:27]
A
No, I consider my ninth grade.
- [107:28]
B
Oh, sorry.
- [107:29]
A
Like jail. Oh, I couldn't count the ninth grade.
- [107:32]
B
Oh, you, you spent three years in ninth grade. Flung three times.
- [107:36]
A
Yeah.
- [107:37]
B
And then did you pass on to 10th? Did you?
- [107:39]
A
Yeah, when I finally went to 10th, I was like, I'm done with school. I already had a beard. No, I'm good. Yeah, I'm good, man. I'm not doing this.
- [107:46]
B
Wait, how did we get to ninth grade? How do we jump from acting to ninth grade?
- [107:50]
A
So, like, I got into acting, like, just being. I loved it, man. And I chased it. The girl told me where to go, I went to it. I did these little classes. I found the classes to be like, horrible.
- [108:02]
B
Yeah, you were doing the Iranian film and you were doing your own lines and changing and it sucked.
- [108:07]
A
And then like, yeah, the whole place, everything about it was like, wow, this is crazy. I liked it, but I'm like, man, this is. I felt like I was acting, you know? Then I, My friend on Facebook Is like, hey, man, I'm in this real good acting class. Why don't you come? And I go there, and there's a bunch of Ken dolls. There's a Juan dollar, a Ken doll. Like, everybody's. What I say. This is like, everybody looks like, right? Like, I love Tony Hawk, by the way. I always refer to Tony Hawk. But they were all like. You know, even. Even the rasa in there was, like, straight, like, you know, Zoolander lips and all that. You know what I'm saying? Like, I. I went in a class where, like, everybody. I was the only one that stuck out like this, you know, and had tattoos and. And I had this. And they were just like, who's this dude? I'm sorry. Are you an actor? I'm sitting here in class with you, ain't I? Yeah, so I guess I am. And my. My teacher was William Alderson. First acting teacher I credit is William Alderson out of Meisner. He's taught Meisner. My backbone is Meisner, and it's. You know, and he liked me because I was truthful.
- [109:15]
B
You were authentic. It was authentic was actually who. You were truthful, right?
- [109:18]
A
And he liked the. He liked when I manhandled people on stage and. And I got crazy, and they. They got scared. He was like, why are you being afraid? He's. He's on stage acting. I don't know. I just feel like, oh, my God. Like, I thought he was gonna hit me, you know, dude, we're acting on stage. I'm not gonna hit you. Like, you know, and then.
- [109:36]
B
When did you land your first big roles?
- [109:38]
A
I was landing roles before I got the class, man.
- [109:41]
B
Oh, really?
- [109:42]
A
Yeah.
- [109:43]
B
So you were doing.
- [109:44]
A
I was lying to people, saying, I'm in. I'm an actor, and I was getting roles and not acting. I said, damn, I need to get in class. I need to really get into class.
- [109:53]
B
Wait, did you get your role in the Mayans and Flaming Hot before?
- [109:57]
A
A month out of Pelican Bay? I got Mayans.
- [109:59]
B
You got Mayans? A month out?
- [110:00]
A
A month out of. Well, I got it while I was in prison.
- [110:03]
B
How so?
- [110:05]
A
We have a prison channel. Our channel in prison. We have the one channel. It's a facility channel, and it loops all day long. Danny Trejo, Elgin James, Richard Cabral, Scott Budnick. They're all in this channel.
- [110:24]
B
This is all arc.
- [110:26]
A
Yeah, they're talking about. And. And it's a. It's. It's on the TV in prison, and, like, it will come on every so often, and they're Talking about how Danny got started. He was in jail. It's kind of hope for us, you know, Danny Trejo. Danny Trejo. And then Richard Cabral. He was in, you know, a bunch of stuff. He'd done fun. He's like Emmy nominated, like, really good actor. I'm watching it, and I'm just, like, looking at it in prison. And I got. I'm just gonna say it because it's true. I'm not faking it. I pray. I need to be around these people. I need to be around that. I need to be around the people I need to be around. Like, this is the crowd I need to be around. And like, you know, I. I would kind of. I don't even. I never used the word manifest before, but now that I know what it is, that's what I was doing. And then I. I posted my certificate. And yes, I had a phone in there. I posted every.
- [111:13]
B
Every. That's the big. Big.
- [111:15]
A
Yeah, big.
- [111:16]
B
That's six months secret about prison is that everybody has a phone. Yeah, it's not a very big secret, actually.
- [111:21]
A
But I guess, like, at the time it was. But not everybody had a phone, I guess. But I posted my certificate and I tagged Danny Trejo. I tagged Elgin James. I tagged all these people.
- [111:32]
B
Smart.
- [111:33]
A
Only person to hit back, I tagged Scott Budnick. The only person to hit back was Elgin James. And he said, let's get you out and create some magic and get you back on set. And that's exactly word for word. Soon as I came home, that's all I could think about. I got my Obama and I hit him up like, hey, Elgin, what's up? I'm out. And he's all good, man. Let me set you up with my producers. He's like, let's get you. Let's get you on my. They'll be talking to you soon. And I was like, oh, like, this is like two weeks home. By the time a month came around, I was home. I was on set as the president of the Portland chapter.
- [112:12]
B
The Mayans. I know.
- [112:13]
A
Rooster for the Mayans. Yeah. And it was like, it was a very big boost, like, for me to come home and do that. Like, that set me on a. On a good path.
- [112:22]
B
I mean, how often does that happen that somebody leaves prison for so long to then be on the set of a major Hollywood series? Right. It's crazy.
- [112:30]
A
You know, Alton James gave me that hope, man. And he did. And Nick, you know, I love the dude for that. So, like, I'm a week home, and this girl's from Texas is like, hey, I want to take photos of you. Let's take some pictures. I want to get you some headshots for free. I'm not charging. She wants to get me back up.
- [112:46]
B
Yeah.
- [112:46]
A
I go, yeah, let's go. I don't have no clothes. I'm, like, wearing sweats and a muscle shirt. Like, I got. No, I'm wearing short basketball shorts. I don't got clothes. She goes, so what? Just come Neo Park. And I go, all right, let's go. So I drove down there, met with her, and then at the end of that photo shoot, she says, I'm gonna go have lunch with Danny Trejo, you know who Danny Machete. And I go, yeah, you want to come? No, no, I don't want to go. No, no, I don't want to go. Because I'm thinking he probably wants to boink her or something. I don't know. I don't know. I'm just saying, like, he's a star. I don't want to step on no toes. He's probably looking at me like, young guy. I'm not trying to get Danny Trejo. You know what I'm saying? So she puts him on the phone, and all I hear is, hey, what's up? What prison you come out of? And I'm like, pelican Bay. Oh, Pelican B. All right, over here. Hey, come. I want to meet you. I want to come. And I'm like, well, oh, my God. I just got summoned by Danny Treo. Machete summons me to go have lunch. I'm like, oh. We go to the cantina. Was supposed to be 20 minutes turned into, like, two or three hours.
- [113:42]
B
Wow.
- [113:42]
A
And then he gave me his number and said to call him. And then, like, I never called him, because I'm like, what am I going to say? That's Danny Trejo. Hi, Machete. What's up? What are you doing? Like, no. So he calls me, and he's like, hey, about a week later, hey, what are you wearing? I'm like, what kind of sex shit is this? Like, what do you mean? Is this something? Like, what do you mean, what am I wearing? He goes, what are you worried for? What. What kind of clothes you wear it right now? I'm like, a muscle shirt. I got, like, a. I love how you called it a. I still got sweats on.
- [114:15]
B
Yeah, and a muscle.
- [114:16]
A
Different color and a muscle shirt. He goes, all right, well, come. Come with me, man. We're. Come to my house. I'm gonna send you an address. And he's. I go to his house and he takes me to a funeral. Awake. The wake of a 19 year old kid who got shot. And he was doing a documentary on. And I'm like, this is when the member. Remember when that year when the. The Dodgers and The Lakers won 2020. I came home and that was. They so. And during that, remember, the city went crazy.
- [114:48]
B
Totally.
- [114:48]
A
There was a guy breaking windows from cars.
- [114:51]
B
Yeah.
- [114:51]
A
And then this kid comes on and like, hey man, that's my mom's car. And shot him. He was like 17 or 18 and he was. Danny was actually doing the documentary on.
- [115:02]
B
That guy on the kid who was killed.
- [115:04]
A
The kid.
- [115:04]
B
Yeah.
- [115:04]
A
And so he took me to that funeral and I was like, like, damn. I was with Blinky Rodriguez. He's a big community guy. Blinky Rodriguez used to be a boxer. Now he does a lot of stuff for the San Fernando Valley. And Mario Castillo, who is Danny Tejo's right hand man and me, all the four of us went to this front room and I was just like, I'm still tripping out. Like I'm a Danny, you know, like he brought me to a front room. I. I know his intention. Like he's. He's trying to. I already know when it's good. He's trying to see where I'm at and make me see how serious.
- [115:38]
B
If you continue the life that you.
- [115:39]
A
Were leading, if you step out of line, this is what happens if you go that route. So. And then coming from Pelican Bay, he's always like kind of me kind of didn't really. He always looked at me like, you better not get back into. Are you. You selling drugs or are you. You out here running with the streets? Like I told him no, I was going to his house all the time. It was a pandemic. So it was like nobody was out. This is right around the time when White House got taken over and all that stuff.
- [116:06]
B
Oh wow. Remember January 6th.
- [116:07]
A
January 6th. We watched that together and it was crazy. You know, I was just going to his house just to. For he could feed me the stuff I need to hear, you know, and give me the things I need to see and whatever.
- [116:21]
B
And you guys are close till this day.
- [116:23]
A
Yeah. I was just with them a couple days ago. Movie premiere. His son Gilbert just directed a film and he's in it.
- [116:30]
B
That's awesome.
- [116:30]
A
Yeah. So I'm very close to the family. Yeah. And I'm blessed for that man. I'm like. Because he don't really accept too many people and he hasn't. They're all kicked out with me, it's like he hasn't gone there yet. I haven't given him reason. Plus, the day I came home, I came out running, man. I came out ready to go, and I started doing all this stuff. And then I took him to my world to see because he was like. He was sketchy. Like, I don't know what you do with the skateboard business. You know, this shit. I don't know. He don't know what a pro gets, how a pro works, or how do you get paid for riding. Skateboarding.
- [117:05]
B
Right.
- [117:05]
A
And he didn't even think that I skateboarded. He thought I was, like, full on Pelican Bay gangster.
- [117:09]
B
Right? Just a gangster coming out of prison. What are you most proud of? Of what you've accomplished since you got out of prison?
- [117:16]
A
Being free. Staying free. Because that is the door to open up everything else. If I can't stay free, there's nothing going on. If I keep my sobriety and stay clean, I know that I could do whatever I want to do. And it's. The possibilities are endless.
- [117:34]
B
Has it been hard?
- [117:36]
A
Yeah, it has been challenging because I got family that puts dope right there. And, like, they're just high, right? And it's. They give two shits about what?
- [117:46]
B
Sobriety.
- [117:48]
A
Yeah.
- [117:48]
B
So you know that the moment you start using again is the moment that you're going to end up in prison again. You think, or maybe I should, but that's.
- [117:54]
A
That's in my head. That's planned in my head. The way. The way I see it is like, if I pick up, I'm getting locked up, right? If I go pick up, I'm getting locked up. If I use, I'm. I'm done.
- [118:04]
B
So you've been clean for how long?
- [118:06]
A
Eight years.
- [118:07]
B
That's incredible.
- [118:08]
A
Going on nine.
- [118:08]
B
Congratulations.
- [118:09]
A
Yeah. Going on nine. February 10th will be nine.
- [118:12]
B
That's amazing. It's a really incredible accomplishment.
- [118:15]
A
It's only. It's only because I believe in the work that I'm doing, and I believe that this is just a journey. We're only here for a little while, and I think that the time you do spend here should make it worth it. And I've already wasted so much time about this nonsense. I wasted so much time just doing stupid stuff. Like I said, if I were to do community work and outreach for the rest of my life every day, it still wouldn't be enough. For the stuff that I've done in the past, it still wouldn't be enough.
- [118:52]
B
I don't know about that. I mean, you are doing pretty amazing work and if you continue this way.
- [118:57]
A
Yeah, I just want to continue doing it.
- [119:02]
B
Yeah. You're getting emotional on me.
- [119:05]
A
No.
- [119:06]
B
Yes, you are emotional.
- [119:08]
A
A little bit. It's because I, I, I believe in it. I believe in it. I really do.
- [119:14]
B
Yeah. And I, I believe, I believe in you and it's, it's very incredible what you've accomplished. It's very, very hard.
- [119:23]
A
My story's still being written. It's still, you know, it's, I'm not done, I'm not finished. And I know that I still work with arc and I'm not going to stop. I'm still going to continue doing what I'm doing.
- [119:35]
B
Yeah, it's such important work. Which leads me to my last question and I'll explain why I'm asking this question. I was doing a story about cocaine trafficking once in Peru and I was seeing these 16, 17 year old kids carrying kilos of cocaine on their backs and really backbreaking work, really dangerous. They'd seen their friends being killed by rival gangs in front of them and they're like, you know, hiking through the mountains day and night for like.
- [120:03]
A
Really? I've seen that, I've seen it on your show.
- [120:04]
B
Right. And I remember, we'll never forget, it was like, defined me in the work that I do forever. I asked the kid, like, why are you doing this? I mean, this is crazy dangerous and really hard. And he's like, look, I've. My dream when I was a kid is being a dentist. I always wanted to go to college and become a dentist and my family can't afford it. And that's why I do the work I do to save money so one day I can become a dentist. Because I want to make people smile. Because he saw the ads for dentists offices in his town and it was all, you know, you see people with big smiles. And he wanted to make people happy. Which is my question that I'm going to ask everyone on this podcast, which is if you take away all the baggage of your life, all the stories you've told me, everything that you've been through, what do you want to be when you grow up?
- [120:54]
A
Take away all the baggage.
- [120:55]
B
Yeah. If you take all the stuff that you carry with, what do you want to be when you grow up? Or even if you carry with you, with you. It, with you, how do you see yourself?
- [121:08]
A
Probably some guy at a skate park teaching kids how to skate and then having another job to support, support myself. Like, a good job. But I would. I would go to skate parks and teach kids how to skate or make. I somehow. I don't know. But I'm just drawn to. To rehabilitation and to sobriety, you know, that's something I'm drawn to. I don't know why. And. Yeah, and I could. I could tell you right now, I'd like to sit in a big office on top of a skyscraper and have, like, real estate and be a big mogul, but I don't think that's who I think reality. I would. I would. If I didn't have all the baggage, I'd still skate. I'd still want to be an actor. That's probably not going to change. And. But I would dive into. Just. I work at, like, right now, I work at El Santo de Pueblo, and that's a community center in Echo Park. Want to hear a full circle story? That place helped my mom get us back.
- [122:10]
B
Oh. And, you know, you're working there, helping families. Really nice.
- [122:14]
A
Yes.
- [122:15]
B
So in many ways, you have become the person you wanted to be when you grow up.
- [122:18]
A
I'll tell you right now, Mariana, I don't know anything else. And I think that I don't. I don't know if I would be. I'd get very bored fast, and I'd get very, like, agitated, and I'd be like, this is not for me, and I'll just walk. If it's not for me, I'll walk. And I've done it. I've turned down little stuff that doesn't fit me, and just because of the money, it doesn't fit me. It's just like that. Once you film that and you do that, it's forever. So be careful what you film. I've already learned my lesson.
- [122:41]
B
Right.
- [122:42]
A
You know, it's like skateboarding. You do. You do a trick in your toe drags, and then you go. Don't go back and do it again and get it perfect. You want to land on them boats. Not with your toe out or dragging the board or all sketchy, like, whoa, Whoa.
- [122:55]
B
Right?
- [122:55]
A
You want to land perfect, and you want it like. I've always. I think that. I think that life ain't perfect. Nothing's perfect. But I know that I would just like to be the perfect version of myself is still landing on them bolts and giving back. It just makes full sense to me.
- [123:19]
B
Yeah. I'm a big admirer of yours and of what you've accomplished. It's pretty incredible.
- [123:25]
A
Thank you for having me and for being a first guest Here, I'm like, special. I can only get better from here on out.
- [123:35]
B
No, that's not true. I hope we become. We'll become. We'll stay in touch. We'll continue being.
- [123:40]
A
Of course. I want to invite you and your team.
- [123:43]
B
Yeah.
- [123:43]
A
To FYI, I work with Will. I am from the Black Eyed Peas. Oh, fun and taboo.
- [123:49]
B
Yes.
- [123:49]
A
And like, there's great people.
- [123:51]
B
Invite me. Invite me.
- [123:54]
A
Yeah, I would love to bring you and get a full tour.
- [123:56]
B
Oh, so fun place.
- [123:57]
A
And then they have this thing called five mics where they actually have like a thing and they, they, they have drinks and they have hip hop music and all this stuff.
- [124:05]
B
So fun. I'll be there.
- [124:06]
A
I would love to give you a tour and just.
- [124:08]
B
Let's do it.
- [124:09]
A
I have also have a podcast there called two Mics, One Mission and it's your podcast. Me and another friend of mine.
- [124:15]
B
Am I going to be a guest on your podcast or are you ignoring me?
- [124:18]
A
You're in. Two Mics, One Mission, and you're in.
- [124:21]
B
Of course. Of course. Count me in.
- [124:23]
A
Thank you so much.
- [124:24]
B
You're amazing. Thanks for coming on.
- [124:26]
A
Thank you for having me. Mean. And, you know, if I could just say this, man, I, I like, I, I, I watched your show before I even, you know, thought that I was even going to be here. You know, I used to, I watch this all the time and I'd be sitting back with my girl and like watching this and being like, wow, she's got big cojones. Like, she's crazy. You gotta love her for that. And I'm like, that's something we watch all the time. And, you know, I used to, and I still do.
- [124:59]
B
We did five seasons, which was amazing. But part of the reason why I wanted to do this podcast is because so many of the people that I sat across and interviewed, just like I did with you today, were either criminals, current criminals, or had been criminals. And they all had like such interesting lives. There's like really, you know, I always say nobody's born wanting to be a criminal. Right. It's the circumstances of life that lead you to that. And usually it's lack of opportunities and, you know, the world that surrounds you and inequality. And so it's such an important message of the work that I've done so far, and I wanted to be able to continue and sort of have a bigger platform for it. So I'm really excited that this is the first episode. So thank you.
- [125:42]
A
It's an honor.
- [125:43]
B
Thank you for coming on.
- [125:44]
A
Thank you.
- [125:45]
B
Hidden third.
- [125:55]
A
When I was there. You had to have a knife. One of you's got to take turns carrying it up your rectum.
- [126:01]
B
Wait, it's up your butt.
- [126:02]
A
That's the prison wallet. You never leave home alone.
- [126:04]
B
You have something protected around it, I'm assuming.
- [126:06]
A
Yeah, or else you'll be bleeding out your coolo.
- [126:08]
B
I'm Ariana Van Zeller, and after reporting on black markets for my Emmy winning National Geographic show, Trafficked, I'm launching a podcast. You're getting emotional on me. Intimate Conversations with those Operating in the shadows. The Hidden Third is out now, with new episodes every Wednesday. Subscribe@YouTube.com Marianna Van Zeller Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.