Transcript

A (0:00)

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast. Smart move. Being financially savvy. Smart move. Another smart move. Having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. I'm still finding out stuff from this week at Capitol Hill. Bombshell stuff. I'm still finding out bombshell stuff. Stuff that's gut wrench. Gut wrenching. Because I have, like this past and I'm feeling. And now I'm realizing as more survivors come forward, like, are you serious? That's a missing link that I just thought was something normal for me that I had worked hard for. Now you're telling me that you went there and you did this too. There are so many layers to Jeffrey Epstein. There are so many layers to the deceit that it's. It's just mind boggling.

B (1:07)

Our guest today is Lisa Phillips. Lisa, welcome on the podcast. Lisa was 21 years old when she was sexually assaulted by Jeffrey Epstein. She recently testified on Capitol Hill urging the release of the remaining files, the full list, and has made it her mission to support other survivors of abuse. So, Lisa, welcome on the Hidden Third. Thank you. Let's start from you growing up in Europe mostly, right?

A (1:32)

Yeah, I had a very interesting childhood. My father had gone to Columbia. He was the first one in his family to graduate at a major university. At a university, really? And studied engineering and went into the Air Force. And he worked at the Pentagon for a while. We were there for a while. Electronic warfare. And then he was stationed in Europe. We moved to Belgium when I was a teenage teenager and he was working at NATO. And I had a great childhood. I did all sports, soccer, gymnastics. We went camping a lot. And just had a really colorful, really wonderful childhood. My mom was like a homemaker and took really good care of us. And so I heard she was a very good cook. Yeah, yeah. My mother is Indian descent, so, yeah, she's a fantastic cook. And I felt like I had a really good childhood. I had everything that I wanted. My parents really said no. Never said no to me on anything.

B (2:26)

And you decided you wanted to be a model and an actress when you were very, very young, right?

A (2:30)

Yeah, I did. I always had this bubbly personality that loved being in front of the camera. I'm an extrovert and I love Meeting people. So my mother entered me into pageants when we lived in the States. We were in Idaho for a couple years and you know, I was in middle Little Miss Idaho.

Summary

Podcast Summary: Jeffrey Epstein Survivor | The Hidden Third with Mariana van Zeller

Date: December 3, 2025
Host: Mariana van Zeller
Guest: Lisa Phillips (Epstein survivor, former model, advocate)

Overview

This episode of The Hidden Third dives deeply into the world of Jeffrey Epstein through the lived experience of survivor Lisa Phillips. Mariana van Zeller and Lisa discuss Lisa’s journey—from her international upbringing and entry into modeling, to her harrowing entanglement with Epstein’s predatory network, the profound impact on her life, and her decision to advocate for truth, justice, and survivor empowerment. The episode explores the nuances of coercion, grooming, and the complex aftermath of sexual abuse within powerful, secretive circles.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Lisa’s Background and Career Aspirations

[01:32-05:06] Lisa describes her supportive, multicultural upbringing, her early ambition to become a model and actress, and her hard-earned entry into top agencies.
- Notable: She began modeling at 16, moved cross-continents, and worked seriously to become a model in New York.

Harassment and Exploitation in Entertainment

[05:43-08:48] Lisa recounts a disturbing encounter with director Oliver Stone during a film shoot and how power dynamics led to both punishment and strange forms of “compensation.”

“He grabbed me on my butt... I immediately like pushed him away from me and I was like, stop.” (Lisa, 06:04)
The event set the stage for her understanding of abuse in the industry, but she notes that Epstein’s methods were even more insidious.

The Epstein Encounter: Grooming and Assault

[09:09-22:50] Lisa is introduced to Epstein via another model while on a magazine shoot in the Caribbean. She describes being drawn to Epstein’s charisma and mentor-like persona.

“He wasn't like other men. He was a mentor.” (Lisa, 19:18)
Epstein’s “grooming” was gradual—deep personal interest, emotional validation, sophisticated manipulation—all designed to create trust and compliance.
Lisa details the moment she was coerced into a massage (Epstein's euphemism for sexual assault), alongside the model who brought her, and the confusion and shame that followed.

The Aftermath: Trauma and Survival

[22:55-28:34] Lisa discusses the psychological fallout: depression, shame, detachment, and numbing through alcohol and drugs. She lost trust in others and herself, and saw a shift in her professional and personal life.

“There's a distinct difference between someone who is assaulted by a stranger... and a manipulator, a groomer.” (Lisa, 24:19)

Entrapment and Coercion Back into Epstein’s Orbit

[28:34-34:49] Despite wanting to escape, Lisa was persistently contacted by Epstein’s assistants, then by Epstein himself, who offered career advancement as leverage—demonstrating the coercive power of predators.

“He had secretaries that would call the girls... They would call all the time to see when you could go back and meet with him.” (Lisa, 28:34)

Modeling Industry and International Trafficking

[31:26-34:49] Lisa sheds light on how modeling agencies, visa arrangements, and powerful men collaborated with Epstein and his associates to funnel young, often vulnerable women (especially from Eastern Europe) to his network.

“The modeling agency with John, Luc Brunel, Karen’s, you know, the Fords... were in cahoots.” (Lisa, 31:26)

The Reality of Sex Trafficking and Abuse Mechanisms

[35:24-45:46] Lisa explains the spectrum of abuse among various survivor groups (teens in Florida, European models, ambitious New Yorkers), the structures Epstein used (mentorship, career promises), and the normalization that keeps victims silent.

“He would train me how to be with men... but you don't have to have sex with them.” (Lisa, 43:16)

Why Survivors Stay Silent: Shame, Fear, Manipulation

[44:55-54:05] Lisa articulates the deep-rooted shame, disbelief, and legitimate fear—including threats, retaliation, and the social minimization of abuse—that prevent survivors from reporting. She contextualizes why the normalization of manipulative abuse makes it all the more insidious.

“It never even crossed my mind to go to the police... I felt like it was my fault.” (Lisa, 27:20)
“A lot of victims of abuse don’t realize it when it’s a serial predator.” (Lisa, 52:12)

Turning Point: Speaking Out and the Death of Epstein

[56:34-63:11] Epstein’s apparent suicide in 2019 catalyzed Lisa’s healing journey and activism. She found newfound freedom from fear and was inspired by Virginia Giuffre’s public courage.

“When he died was the moment that shifted my entire life. It was the defining moment of my life.” (Lisa, 56:34, 94:21)

Advocacy, Capitol Hill, and the Fight for Justice

[71:31-76:02] Lisa recounts testifying on Capitol Hill for release of the "Epstein files," building solidarity with fellow survivors, and the importance of exposing the full web of abuse and its enablers.

“If you don’t release the list, we will.” (Lisa, 73:36)
The need for institutional accountability over vigilante justice is emphasized, along with the danger survivors still face.

Healing and Empowerment: Therapy and Community

[82:15-87:25] Lisa describes therapy (especially EMDR), finding her voice, and building community through support groups and her own podcast. She notes the contrast between public validation and personal loss—estrangement from friends and family.

“The powerful woman that you see today, I believe it’s from the transformation that I went through with EMDR therapy.” (Lisa, 84:55)

Continuing the Fight and Hope for the Future

[97:22-end] Lisa reflects on the ongoing quest for truth, wishing more perpetrators would be brought to justice, and the pain of losing fellow advocate Virginia Giuffre.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Epstein’s methods:

“He was never a Hugh Hefner playboy. He was a mentor. Which made it worse.” (Lisa, 19:18-19:19)
On the challenge of recognizing abuse:

“Most women feel safe with that type of man who doesn’t give you any inkling that they’re attracted to you. Right... You feel safe with him.” (Lisa, 19:44)
On revisiting her trauma:

“I remember being like someone completely different after. I remember going back to New York...and just being like, oh, they’re disgusting. Doing cocaine and stuff like that. But after the abuse, now I started to understand Holy weird... why everyone kind of has issues.” (Lisa, 23:08)
On the model/trafficking pipeline:

“Jeffrey had apartments... filled with Eastern European girls. I saw it.” (Lisa, 32:56)
On the silence of survivors:

“They’re definitely ashamed. No, they’re scared of death.” (Lisa, 34:03-34:06)
On survivor solidarity:

“There’s nothing more powerful in the world than a group of women with a mission.” (Mariana, 70:51)
On why she fights for file release:

“To understand what’s going on in America with our privileged, wealthy people and hopefully to stop it. If people are aware of it, it’s going to be a little harder to abuse children.” (Lisa, 77:41)

Important Timestamps

05:43: Lisa’s abuse by Oliver Stone and its industry context.
12:17: Arrival at Epstein’s island, first observations of the dynamic.
21:34: Description of assault by Epstein.
27:20: Why reporting abuse seemed impossible.
31:26: Explanation of modeling agencies’ complicity.
34:23: Estimate: Epstein abused 6-8 girls a day.
43:10: Being trafficked for “auditions” and “introductions” to powerful men.
56:34: The impact of Epstein’s death on Lisa’s healing.
71:31: Testimony before Congress—advocacy for releasing Epstein files.
82:15: Therapy, community, and the long process of reclaiming self.
94:21: Epstein’s death as a turning point, memoir in progress.

Tone & Language

The episode is intimate, candid, and raw. Both Mariana and Lisa speak with deep empathy and clarity, balancing difficult truths with resilience and hope. Lisa frequently uses direct language when describing abuse, aligning with her determination for honesty and justice.

Summary Takeaway

This is a powerful, unsparing exploration of how abuse is perpetrated and covered for in elite circles, the lifelong cost to survivors, the importance of solidarity and truth-telling, and the systems that must change. Lisa Phillips’ journey underscores the importance of survivor-led advocacy, institutional accountability, and cultural transformation to combat exploitation and enable real healing.

For further support:

Lisa’s podcast for survivors
EMDR therapy
National sexual assault hotlines

(End of summary)