Lee Harris Claims to Channel Aliens. Why Do Millions Believe Him?

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Hidden Third

Episode: "Lee Harris Claims to Channel Aliens. Why Do Millions Believe Him?"

Host: Mariana van Zeller
Guest: Lee Harris, channeler and spiritual teacher
Date: June 3, 2026

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Overview

In this unconventional episode, investigative journalist Mariana van Zeller delves into the world of spiritual channeling with Lee Harris, a prominent figure who claims to communicate with a group of 88 intergalactic beings known as "the Z's." While Mariana’s usual focus is the hidden structures of underground markets and the criminal underworld, she takes a detour into the outer world, testing the boundaries between skepticism, spirituality, and social impact. Throughout their conversation, they explore Lee’s personal journey, the nature of channeling, public skepticism, and the ethical implications of spiritual guidance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Lee’s Background and Initial Experiences

• Early Sensitivities:
  • Lee recalls growing up as a creative, sensitive child, struggling with his sexual identity and a secretive sugar addiction, both sources of personal pain and growth.
  • “As a kid I was very creative … I was very intuitive and sensitive, but I didn’t understand that I was.” (04:00)
• First Channeling Experience:
  • Lee describes hearing a disembodied voice at age 23 on the London Underground, marking the beginning of his conscious channeling journey.
  • “I very, very clearly heard this voice from above my head that said, ‘that’s an interesting theory, but you’re wrong and here’s why.’” (02:00)

What is Channeling?

• Lee’s Definition:
  • “Channeling is when someone is hearing the voice of a spirit or a guide or an angel, or an energy being that is no longer in the body.” (09:37)
  • He also argues for a broader sense of channeling that can include intuition and creative flow in music, dance, and daily life.

From Scepticism to Exploration

• Host’s Perspective:
  • Mariana approaches the conversation as a skeptic, emphasizing her journalistic training to demand evidence and facts.
  • She draws parallels to artists like Bob Dylan and Tori Amos who describe their creative process as something “coming through them.”
• Neurological vs. Spiritual:
  • Mariana asks: “Can it be that it’s a locked part of your brain that is suddenly unlocked and giving you this information?” (15:29)
  • Lee acknowledges the ambiguity, focusing instead on the positive effects and accuracy of the guidance he receives.

Mechanics of Channeling and Readings

• The Z’s and the Channeling Process:
  • The Z’s describe themselves as a “consciousness library” bridging Earth and galactic knowledge.
  • Channeling can be spontaneous or self-initiated, with Lee often writing or speaking messages received “above the left side of his head.” (22:04)
• Helping Others:
  • Lee started with one-on-one readings for friends, expanding to strangers via word of mouth, eventually building a wide-reaching online presence.
  • Readings might address a person’s “past, present, future … who you are, your soul, what you’re here for.” (30:53)

The Ethics and Impact of Channeling

• Accountability and Responsibility:

  • Lee is aware of the weight of responsibility: “You can have found impact in people’s lives or beliefs … the responsibility is enormous” (33:39)
  • He distinguishes his approach from others who exploit followers or establish cult-like structures, emphasizing autonomy and discernment.

• Positive Effects and Criticism:

  • Lee has mostly received positive feedback, noting transformative effects on individuals, though he admits he cannot vouch for every interpretation or outcome.
  • “I'm not in the business of telling people they're doing anything wrong because I don’t believe in that.” (75:15)

• Balancing Individual and Global Impact:

  • Mariana challenges Lee on targeting privileged audiences and questions why channeling isn’t leveraged for larger global issues.
  • Lee describes a vision of creating accessible, community-centered platforms and highlights free content as a core value.

Skepticism, Scams, and Spiritual Abuse

• Spiritual Scams & Cults:

  • Mariana draws connections to scam victims who choose fantasy over harsh realities, tying it to the dangers of spiritual exploitation.
  • Lee condemns those who direct followers’ actions or create systems of dependency, stressing that true spiritual work should empower autonomy.

• Conferences and the Fringe:

  • Both discuss the proliferation of “bullshitters” in the spiritual industry, with Lee citing instances where he’s declined or distanced himself from questionable groups or speakers.

The Z's Messages and "Big Picture" Insights

• World in Transition:

  • The Z’s (and Lee) assert that humanity is undergoing a great awakening, with rising consciousness met by increasing control and darkness.
  • “We’re in a time of essentially revolution and it’s already begun … power moves back to the people.” (53:04)

• Galactic and Earthly Powers:

  • The Z’s claim an ancient history of extraterrestrial involvement and competing “groups” influencing human affairs, warning of both benevolent and malevolent forces. (56:31)

• Advice for Humanity:

  • “You have wisdom in your heart that is very strong … learn to connect with your heart.” (126:33)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Belief and Reality:
  • The Z’s (via Lee): “How do you know you are real? How do you know the world that you are existing in is real? Because you believe it is so.” (125:21)
• On Spiritual Practice vs. Dogma:
  • “I'd much rather be stuck in an elevator with a kind skeptic than a judgmental, spiritually ‘learned’ person.” (64:56)
• On Practical Impact:
  • Mariana: “Wouldn’t it be so much cooler if you could actually write something bigger?” (50:44)
• On Financial Motivation:
  • Lee: “There are easier ways to make money … If money had been my objective, I would have generated it far earlier.” (114:44)
  • Mariana: “But if you’re paying for your subscription service … people aren’t sure if they're getting back something real or not.” (116:22)

Live Reading & Channeling Demonstration

• Personal Reading for Mariana (starting at 69:41)

  • Lee provides a detailed, intuitive forecast about personal transformation and an expanding mission focus in Mariana’s life.

• Direct Channeling of The Z’s (118:49, extended through 127:36)

  • The Z’s address Mariana personally, offering messages about her role as a "being of light" and giving advice on collective advancement:
    • “It is not what you do not know about us. It is what you have forgotten about yourselves. We are not far from you. That is the most important message.” (122:24)

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Notable Segment Timestamps

• Lee’s First Channeling Experience: 02:00 – 03:31
• Defining Channeling/Intuition: 09:37 – 11:11
• Ethical Responsibility & Impact: 33:39 – 37:19
• The Z’s and Modern Consciousness: 52:36 – 57:18
• “Do you believe in reincarnation?”: 111:14 – 112:07
• Financial Discussion & Critique: 114:16 – 118:46
• Direct Channeling with The Z’s: 118:49 – 127:36
• Practical Advice from The Z’s: 126:27 – 127:34

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Host’s Final Reflections

By the end of the episode, Mariana remains a “kind skeptic,” seeking nuanced understanding rather than sensational exposé. Lee Harris presents channeling as a tool for personal and collective empowerment, while also acknowledging the limits of his own knowledge and responsibility. Both agree on the central importance of behavior over belief, human connection, and ethical transparency in any field—whether in journalism or spiritual practice.

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Tone & Language

The conversation is probing but respectful, balancing critical inquiry with openness. Lee is candid about his vulnerabilities and uncertainties, and Mariana is transparent about her skepticism and desire for evidence. Both use accessible, emotionally honest language, fostering an atmosphere that’s simultaneously challenging and empathetic.

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Conclusion

This episode provides a rich and multifaceted exploration of the boundaries between skepticism and faith, the ethical complexities of spiritual work, and the need for greater consciousness and connection in a rapidly changing world. Whether or not listeners “believe” in channeling, the dialogue offers valuable insights on intuition, personal growth, and social responsibility.

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Transcript

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[B]

Okay, so I'm really excited about this one today. As most of you guys know, my guests on this show are usually from the underworld, but today it's going to be very different. Today, for the first time ever, I'll be trying to communicate not with the underworld, but with the outer world. My guest is Lee Harris, a channeler who says he's in contact with 88 intergalactic beings called the Z's. He has over half a million followers across his platforms and and a global community of people who have built their lives around his teachings. I'm a journalist. I look for evidence for facts. I'm not particularly spiritual either, so when I first heard of him through a friend, I dismissed him immediately. But the more I read and the more I listened, the more fascinated I became with him. So I cannot wait to share this one with you all. But how do I know you're real?

[A]

You do not.

[B]

And is there anything you can give me more than that?

[A]

We do not mean to be vague. What we mean here is, how do you know you are real? How do you know the world that you are existing in is real? Because you believe it is.

[B]

Okay, so, Lee, as I said, I'm super excited about this one. Very unconventional for me. Not at all my typical guests. And I'm sure I'm not at all your typical podcast interviewer. No, tell me. But I'd like to start with the beginning, which is when you first felt that there was that you were channeling something and you were six years old. Is that true?

[A]

Well, actually, I was 23, but my guides told me that I could hear them until I was 6, but I don't remember that. They say they left when I was 6 because it would have been inconvenient for my life if they had stayed around. But When I was 23, I was living and working in London. At the time, I was on the subway, the London Underground, and I was going to my job in fundraising, and I was sifting through my own thoughts, and I was very specifically thinking about a relationship I was in, and I was Convinced that. That it was my partner's problem, not mine. And I was kind of upset about it. And I very, very clearly heard this voice from above my head that said, that's an interesting theory, but you're wrong and here's why. And then I heard an explanation as to why I was wrong. And it was very clear. It was all of a sudden it was like a light bulb moment. And I remember not just the information feeling valid or like a helpful therapist had shown me something, but my whole energy field changed. I felt more open. At the time, I didn't know the term energy field, but I went from being closed and negative to open. And very quickly, you know, I thought, well, hang on a second, what's going on? This is not a voice I know. So I'm like, who are you? What are you? And they said, we are your guides. We've been with you your whole life, and that's who we are.

[B]

Can I ask you about who you were at the time? And you had already explored spirituality? Yes, right. At the time?

[A]

Yes, before then.

[B]

So tell me about you as a teenager and then what you were like as a 23 year old.

[A]

Yeah, so, you know, I was. As a kid I was very creative and that was kind of, I think, my saving grace, my creativity. And in a way, I think of that as spirituality. I think if you're tapped into creativity, it's kind of a way of being intuitively connected. But I was very intuitive and sensitive, but I didn't understand that I was. So I would. People would say things and it wouldn't quite feel true. Like I would know if someone was saying something that didn't match with their feelings. But again, I wasn't aware of this. So I went through my whole childhood having that experience. But I also knew that I wasn't heterosexual and I was pretty sure I was attracted to the same sex from. I think I knew at the age of 10 for sure. And I remember feeling really scared about that because this would have been 1986 when I was 10. And there were very few positive models in the world where you were allowed to love the same sex. So I remember praying to God for like a few years and asking for that to be taken away because I thought that's the only way I'm going to, you know, be able to love. And that was really important to me. And so I went through my whole teens with this sensitivity that I didn't understand and that was. Seemed very different to everyone around me. Although of course there would have been other Sensitives who would have been having to hide and manage what they were going through. And I developed a sugar addiction very young. So I was taken to weight watchers age 10. I was in and out of diet clinics through my teens.

[B]

Were you taken by your parents?

[A]

Yeah, by my.

[B]

Did you ask to go or they want.

[A]

I don't think I asked to go, no, I think I was taken. And what I was doing was eating sugar in secret. So if you think of a candy bar, like Snickers, like a standard Snickers or Mars bar, I would eat five of those in one go within about 10 minutes. And it was a way of soothing myself. And. And of course, I was little, I was like 10 or 11. And then I would eat my dinner because I didn't want my mom to know what I'd just done. I didn't want the food. So of course my weight just, you know, kept growing. So at the age of 16, I lost 60. I started to lose 60 pounds, which took me two years. I was smaller, I was a smaller frame. So I went through my whole childhood wearing this identity of being the fat kid or the overweight kid, which was the label that was put on me, you know, by bullies or, you know, people. So.

[B]

And the gay kid as well, or you were not out.

[A]

I think it would have been very obvious and. And I think there were people who would make comments, but of course I couldn't talk about it. It wasn't allowed, it wasn't seen. And I remember when I came out to my family, they seemed more shocked than I expected. Like I thought, well, surely this is just logical. So I had a few friends who were really able to support me. And I came out at 16 and that was the same moment when I started to lose the weight and when I started to uncover myself. So around that time I was introduced to tarot readings by a friend and I went to this tarot reader and I remember, you know, I think a lot of people with tarot reading think, oh, I want the information about my future so that I can feel better, which I understand. And I was there for that too. But something would happen in those rooms. I don't know what it. I think it was my own intuition was responding to this. This idea that there is information there that we can't see or perceive. Not everyone is tapping into it, but it was the beginning of my own intuition opening. And so I threw myself into self growth workshops. I tried yoga, I tried shamanism, I tried all the things and I really started to uncover myself the more I read books like the Celestine Prophecy or Out on a limb by Shirley MacLaine. And in Shirley MacLaine's book she talked about a channeler. And I remember not really caring about it or I thought it was a bit weird. But I was taken to see a channeler when I was 22, a year before it happened to me. And because I'd been involved with Tarot, I remember thinking, why? Why did he have to close his eyes and put on a funny voice?

[B]

Because that's what he was doing.

[A]

That's what he was doing. So he was a very nice man. He had a successful business. So once a week, I think on a Wednesday night or something, he would do a free couple of readings for people. And so we went to meet him, met him and his wife. I thought, oh, really lovely people. They also ran self growth workshops, which was my world. I was, you know, I loved a self growth workshop. Great, go and uncover your stuff, you know. And then they took me into the room where the reading was going to happen and he gave me all this information, but he closed his eyes, he said, I'm channeling Hazim. And his voice changed a little and it was very powerful. And I definitely sat there and was impacted by the experience and the information. But as we were driving home, my friend who had taken me, I said to her, well, he's clearly intuitive, but he didn't need to do the show for me, I didn't need all that. He could have just sat like a man and told me that and I would have received it even more comfortably. So then a year later, you know, I hear my own guides, which wasn't something I was looking for. And also in my head I thought, well, surely to meet your own guides you have to be a lot purer than I am. You know, I'm not a raw vegan yogi. I haven't been meditating for five years. It didn't happen to me in an ashram. So at first I, you know, you do think, am I making this up? Am I just hearing this voice? But then I thought, well, I've clearly got a much more useful voice way above my head. So I'm just going to go with this and keep going. So I ask lots of questions.

[B]

Why? I have lots of questions too. First of all, can you explain what channeling is for people who don't know?

[A]

Right. So in the way I'm speaking about it, channeling is when someone is hearing the voice of a spirit or a guide or an angel. Or an energy being that is no longer in the body. And equally, you could argue that mediums channel messages from the other side. So if you had someone who'd passed over, a medium is channeling messages or sentences from your loved one to relay messages to you from the other side.

[B]

And it can be messages, it can be music too, right?

[A]

Well, yeah, you see, I kind of argue that channeling comes in many forms. You know, music is channeling. They. I write music and they actually say when I started writing music and lyrics, that's how they got me first. It happened when I was 21 and they knew I had an affinity with music. So at 21, I suddenly started hearing all these songs and melodies and, and would bring them down to earth using guitar chords and the pen and paper. And I think a lot of musicians, artists, or even people who love cooking, you know, they might say, I just get in the flow and I get in the zone and I don't even think about it and I just throw things in the bowl. And so I think, you know, we can, we can channel energy and intuition through our bodies. In many ways, people dance and they feel like they've left their mind and something is moving through them. But I think what we're talking about, the way that people often think of channeling today, is someone bringing through words, messages and vibrations from somewhere else.

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[B]

So that's the part that I think I'm a little bit more skip not saying it doesn't exist. I'm just going to tell you what I believe. It is very common to hear and you hear a lot like you said, artists and musicians talking about how songs just come to them and like you were saying yourself as a musician, how lyrics and melodies come to you and you don't even know where they come from. And that definitely exists. And there's Bob Dylan. I wanted to give actual examples of artists who've also talked about this. Right. Bob Dylan mentioned, talked. I remember reading about Bob Dylan saying that he talked how he doesn't. A lot of songs just came to him. Chris Martin from Coldplay has also talked

[A]

about this and Tori Amos as well, who, you know, I, I fell in love with her and her music in 1992 and I'm still a huge fan. Go and see all her concerts. And she was really brave in. At that time in the 90s she took a lot of heat for constantly talking about how she was channeling music. But she was very bold about saying, you know, these songs come to me. Muses come and visit me. I have song. Song forms that move through me. So she was very bold in the 90s.

[B]

So that in some way has happened to me as well where I. In part of my work where certain titles for certain ideas that I wanted, just the. The word or the title has shown up in my head before I knew what the actual idea was. And then because I happened. It actually was last year I think when I was listening to the Telepathy tapes. Do you remember? Have you listened to the Telepathy?

[A]

I didn't, but I have a friend who's part of them so. And I know they've been. I need to listen to them.

[B]

It's. It's a great, amazing podcast, incredibly popular and because I am generally just very skeptical and more interested in evidence and fact based issues, I don't usually listen to about things like this, but I was listening to that podcast and I think it made me a little bit more open. And one of the things in Telepathy tapes is yes the messages that the world sends you and just being open to the world. Right. And while brushing my teeth it sort of happened where it popped up an idea, a title for something that I had no idea what it was. And then I was like, I'm just gonna sit with it for a second. And I started thinking about it. It's like, wow. Actually, it's a great concept for a show that I ended up doing. It hasn't been released yet, but that was the only time that I've experienced that. But it was also the only time that I've been open to it. But my thought, looking back at it and even when we talk about your experience as a musician and so many other artists, is, can it be that it's a locked part of your brain that just is suddenly unlocked and is giving you this information instead of it being something or someone outside?

[A]

One of the hardest things for me in being a public channeler is interfacing with people's need to know and interfacing with people's need to understand what it is. I've always said, if I died. And they said, oh, by the way, you know that thing that you. You all knew as the Z's? It wasn't the Z's. That was just your higher self or that was your future self. I'm like, I don't care. Because for me, I was never that bothered about who they are, where they're from. That. That actually was never interesting to me. What was my evidence is the effect. So I had personal life examples with them in those first few years where I would say things like, what's going on with my sister? I'm a bit. I'm a bit unsure what's going on with her. And they would say, she is in grief right now, and she's choosing not to speak to you about it, but you will know about this within a month. And then, boom. Like, so I had all these. For me, even though I would ask them stuff about the world or other planets or for me, the evidence came in, the human stuff. And at the same time, my own intuition was developing. So, you know, I did private sessions for 15 years, and I would bring in the channeling for maybe the last 10 minutes of an hour, but I could speak to someone for 30 minutes and just get a stream of information about them. I didn't know it as Lee. It wasn't in my head, but I could sit in front of you, and if my job was to give you a reading, I could give you 20, 25 minutes of information about you, your soul, your journey, because I tap into that place. So I think. I think one of the hardest things for me, well, I think what made me the most nervous about being a public channeler is I got that it was weird and there are other things I can do that aren't as weird. But I think it's also. I think we're at a time in society where we're beginning to hopefully allow in the possibility that there are all different ways of experiencing things and there's more to our human life than we have been told and sold. Doesn't mean everyone has to agree, doesn't mean everyone's going to be a channeler, but we can all tap into more than our brains and our limited thinking has allowed us to.

[B]

Right? Absolutely. You're saying essentially that for you it was much more interesting at the time that the result that it had than trying to question how you had this result or how it was happening to you.

[A]

Yes. Right, yes.

[B]

So. And that you were nervous about even, I'm assuming, sharing this with people. Right. So you were contacted when you were 23. You were on the subway in the tube, imagining it wasn't here. So it's called the tube. Yeah. And.

[A]

And I was on the Northern Line. I was on my way to Farringdon. Yeah. Which is where I was working.

[B]

And just the details, you were told that they were the disease or. Tell me about the details about that.

[A]

It wasn't all immediate because you can imagine, you know, at first you hear something like that and you're. Here's the first thing I'll say is the hardest. People have often said, weren't you scared? And I've said, never scared of them. Only got scared when I realized, oh, shit, I might have to tell people about this. So I didn't tell people about it for ages. I was nervous to tell my family and, you know, some of my more conventional friends, because I had all kinds of friends, including spiritual friends. But it was a process. So what I started doing once I'd established the initial contact, I would go home from my job at the time and I would write questions and then I would write the answers. So it's a little bit like being a receptionist taking dictation, that the skill is to not allow your emotional reaction to happen while the intuitive stream is coming, because intuition and empathy can interfere with each other. And what I mean by that is you have to allow that message to come down and just keep writing or typing. There's a part of you that wants to go, oh, wow. And you want to start feeling and reacting to it, but you mustn't. You must just stay somewhat neutral, keep letting the words come down. And when it's done, if it takes 10 minutes or 20 minutes, then you can read it as a human being, because it's going to impact you. So if you sat and did this for yourself, you know that this is what I teach people when I'm, you know, doing a workshop or a video or whatever. Just sit and write a message to yourself from your soul or your higher self. It doesn't have to be a guide, doesn't have to be an angel, doesn't have to be anything specific like you might see out there. But we can all speak to a higher wisdom part of ourselves, which for many is the same thing. So if you sit and write this stream of information for yourself every morning, it's very impactful when you read it back. So that's what I did. I would go home every night and I would ask all these questions. I would keep records of it all, and then I would go back weeks later and see how it played out. I mean, I didn't do this today, but I could have gone. I've been invited on this podcast called the Hidden Third. Don't know anything about it. Tell me what to expect, and they will tell me what, what. What will happen here or why you've called me here or. I didn't do that this morning. I was busy and I just trusted you guys. And I'm like, okay, well, but I can. And so it's. What's interesting is not just that it gives you a message beforehand, but I'm interested in going back afterwards and going, how did that play out? So I had this history of a really high hit rate of. What would you call it, certainty around these messages, because I would see things play out. But equally, it wasn't just that it's giving you information about what's going on. It changes your worldview because you start seeing things differently. I don't see things the way my guides do. Of course I don't. I'm very on the earth in the human body, but I see things wildly differently to how I did when I was 23, because I have had the benefit of seeing things through their lens or hearing them say things to me or to others or to workshop rooms about the other levels of reality that we're all living in.

[B]

How often were they. When they started communicating with you? How often was that happening after that first time? And I know that you got. You've got. You've been asked this before, but obviously you weren't drugged or.

[A]

No, you weren't. No, I wasn't.

[B]

No, I wasn't having a psychotic event. You were in the tube. And immediately you said you weren't scared of the voices, but they were saying something that had an impact on you, and they were right. And you felt that this was coming from not inside of you. You felt it was coming from outside.

[A]

Well, I know what my own mental chatter is. And my own mental chatter, which was very strong back then, now it's much more occasional. And if I'm in mental chatter, I know I'm in some kind of reaction. So I kind of sit back, you know, feel whatever I need to feel, ask myself, okay, we're getting a little tight here. What's going on? But at the time, my mental chatter all kind of happened here. This voice, still to this day, I hear it from the left above my head. It's different for everyone, but for me still, like, I could be sat with you. Well, I'll give you an example. Before we started this podcast, you told me that the reason you do the work you do is you've worked out that you're very interested in empathy. As soon as you said that to me, I heard from above here, she's here for truth. So for you, empathy might be your connection to what you do, but what I was shown was actually, she's here for truth. She's here to stand for truth, to uncover the truth, to reveal the truth, and to stand for truth. So, you know, things like that happen all the time. Yeah. I can't remember what your original question was. Sorry.

[B]

That wouldn't be a hard thing for you to understand either. Because I'm a journalist, so that would make sense.

[A]

Yeah. Even without a voice telling me no, I understand that. And I think that's part of the weird thing about doing this job, because a lot of people think you're tricking people. And I'm like, I'm not. I'm not a stupid person. You know, I don't need to trick people with this. If. If the goal was for. Usually they talk about money, success, fame, are the reasons that people do all this stuff. Well, firstly, those three things will have shadow aspects as well. And secondly, you know, if. If money had been my goal, I could have done anything in my 20s to focus in on money, you know, so that's kind of where I go. But I. But I understand why people. I understand why people think it. And there are people out there who we know have done that, who have. Who have used or abused either a spiritual power or pretended they've got a spiritual power to kind of take.

[B]

I mean, the world and history is full of Them and we still see them.

[A]

And I'll ask the same in other careers as well. It's not just in the spirit, you

[B]

know, it's like, you know, in the spiritual sphere. And we'll talk about this because I am actually interested in what you think about, you know, even some of the conferences you attend and other people attend as well. But going back to that, you were beginning, you were obviously as I would be afraid of sharing with other people that I think I'm being contacted by these, what would you call them, be these guides and are they describe them or define them to me?

[A]

Well, what they told me and you know, I've, I've recorded this now or written it down is basically said we, we are 88 beings. We're a kind of conglomerate group if you like, or a council of beings who, some have been incarnate on Earth. Some of them have had human lives, some of them hadn't haven't. Some of them are galactically oriented. So Andromeda and Sirius have been mentioned. But they said think of us as a consciousness library that bridges Earth and galactic knowledge, which at the time for me, galactic knowledge was not something I really connected to. I always thought of aliens as out there, even though I was very interested in aliens from a young age and didn't know why. But what they started to explain to me was they said, well, you're all hybrid beings. They said none of you are as human as you think you are. And they say that the Earth has been, they were saying this, you know, almost 30 years ago. The Earth has been a part of galactic consciousness for a very long time and we've just not been told the truth about that and that in this lifetime we were going to come to know it more now at the time that seemed very sci fi and a little far fetched to me. And then it's weird today to be where we are and to kind of look around and see all the things that are happening.

[B]

So, so I've just recently started learning more about or being more interested in consciousness. Are there people talking about galactic consciousness out there or are you one of the first ones?

[A]

I know I don't think I'm one of the first at all. No, there are some and there are some who, you know, from what I can see, do it incredibly well and really all in on it and they're very detailed about it, you know, so I, I can't profess to be any kind of expert in that arena. It's just that it comes through in the messages and they speak in that way.

[B]

And so when it first happened, how often was it happening to you?

[A]

At the time, for me, channeling was always initiated by me.

[B]

Oh, you would. You would initially. But not that first time initially.

[A]

But then they would also start really walloping messages into my mind. So, for example, like. Well, it's interesting, isn't it? Because, like, I didn't initiate that thing about you, but it just happens. So there's a level at which I'm just kind of. It just kind of happens. But actual messages, to me, it was the first time. And then because I was going home every day and asking loads of questions, they would answer them. But then there would be. I'd say, these days, probably maybe once a month, I get given a message unsolicited. And also I work in it now. And I've often wondered, what would it be like if I wasn't doing this for a job, you know? Yeah.

[B]

Did it ever cross your mind that actually it's better if I just to protect myself, even if I believe that this is intergalactic beings and disease, if I just tell people that I'm just incredibly intuitive and I have this power of understanding people and understanding things that are going to happen, but it comes more from intuition or consciousness or whatever you want to call it. But you know. You know what I mean. Is there a part of you that thought, why disclose all this information that can ultimately hurt the message that I'm ultimately trying to pass or the change I'm trying to make in the world?

[A]

Well, it's a good question. I remember being introduced to Esther Hicks, who channels Abraham, and I think she's one of the most brilliant channelers out there. And she has her eyes open, and if you didn't know she was channeling a bill being called Abraham, she would just be a woman walking around a stage with really wise information. About three times I thought about stopping the channeling, but it was a part of my work. It wasn't the whole of my work. I would hold workshops that were really about facilitating people through things. So, for example, you might be sat with me and you might talk to me about something that's going on in your life, and I'll use my intuition and my understanding of how we grow and how we transform and work with you without the channeling being part of it. So actually that's a dominant part of my work. But it still remains the case that people are most interested in the channeling because it's the weirdest thing in the room. So there were a Few times I thought, well, what if I just stop the channeling? And I still don't know, honestly that I will be publicly channeling five years from now. But I'm having an interesting experience this year, and especially this last year where it seems very interesting to people in a, In a. On a much bigger level. Got to remember when I started, this was tiny. I was doing readings for people with a leaflet in 2004. No one really knew who I was or what I did unless they were given a leaflet and they had a recommendation from a friend. So, you know, over 22 years now, it's really changed and the world has changed. The world is more interested in these topics than I, I imagine any of us who were ever in this field.

[B]

Oh, 100. I mean, we've been hearing non stop about UAPs right now, particularly now more than ever.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I think consciousness and spirituality, very much back in. People are talking a bit, a lot more about it can when. Talk to me about readings and how that started for you and what exactly does that mean?

[A]

Well, at the beginning I had close friends who were spiritual and who were going to these workshops with me. Um, they were called Psychology of Vision. They were all. Well, they weren't all in the uk. I went to one in Canada. They were all over the world, but they would come to us. So I knew a few of them were open. So I would offer to, you know, do you want to play? Do you want to experiment? Do you want to sit and speak to the Z's? Um, but before that, actually I had held people's hands and got information. And that was random. I was at Glastonbury Festival, I was with a friend, we were working there for Greenpeace and we had our own kind of staff area. And I don't know, I don't know what made me do it, but I took his hand and I started giving him information about himself and he looked really taken aback. And I'd known him for a few months, so I knew who he was. But even I was learning things about him through this information stream. And I think this was the permission slip, like tarot cards are the permission slip or anything. That's a tool for an intuitive to bring information. So that's how it started then.

[B]

Sorry. And the information is about their future. What is it about?

[A]

Past, present, future. So it might be something from your past, then your present, then your future. And it just kind of. It's kind of like a reading about who you are, your soul, what you're here for. So, and again, it's not organized, it's just, I'm repeating or kind of bringing through what I'm hearing. Then with the channeling, I offered to let some people who I knew, like, would you like to just, you know, experiment with this? So they did that. One of these people was a yoga teacher and an author who's still out there working today, Anaya Sophia. And she had something going on with her relationship at the time. We were having coffee and she was telling me about it. And as usual, I used to get loads of information before I did it for a job, like all the time. I would kind of be stalked. And I gave her the info and the next day she came back to me and she went, that completely transformed our relationship. And she and her partner were shamans and practitioners. And she said, why don't you do this as a job? And I remember saying, oh no, I, I, how would I do this? And she could you just do this for the public? And she said, well, couldn't, you know, you just do it? And I thought about it and I thought, well, maybe if I got questions, you know, if I got given three questions by email because I hear things in response, so maybe I could do that. And, and she said, I've got 300 people on my newsletter, let me send it out to them. And I was nervous, but I said yes. And I didn't think anyone would come. And I did it on a donation basis so people could pay whatever they wanted. And it would take me about 90 minutes. I would type them 2,000 words of this document, like a five page type document. And in response to their three questions, it was very weird because I couldn't vouch for any of this, but you know, this stranger would send me a question and I'd get all this information and then I'd get an email from him going, I'm blown away, I'm crying. Thank you so much. And so this just happened. 60 readings in 60 days. And it just kept growing. So really everything I did was based on readings. Like the beginning of my work was this one on one, tuning in on somebody and receiving this information. But the hardest thing was I couldn't, I couldn't, you know, it wasn't like I could sit there and tell you how I was doing it and I, I would send this off and not really know. And then I'd get the email back and I'm like, oh you, you know, because you're always thinking. I remember being so nervous the first few, and I also remember the first Few months. It was emotionally impactful because these were strangers sending me really deep questions. And when you're not used to that, you know, it really kind of hits your own heart. So I would feel responsible and I'd have to try and get a reading squeezed in after my job in the evening so that I got it back to them as quickly as possible.

[B]

Yeah, the responsibility is enormous because you can have found impact in people's lives or beliefs. Do you. Did you ever get a person who wasn't happy with what you told them or who said it was bullshit, that none of what you told them was true?

[A]

I never had that. And who knows, maybe there was someone, but they didn't write to me. But I did have one woman that really impacted me positively, actually. She wrote to me and she said, I'd like another reading with you. I had one about a year ago and I thought it was rubbish. And she said. And I was really angry about it because I thought you were completely off base. I just found it in the bottom of a drawer in my. In my house. And everything you said just came true. My relationship just now, I can't imagine I would have predicted her relationship was going to end, because it's not that kind of thing. It's more. It's not like your relationship will end on this day. It's not that. It's more who you are, what you're experiencing. And if she'd ask questions about that relationship, maybe she hadn't liked the answers because, right, it was going to end and she didn't like what she heard. So then she came back for another one. So I don't know. There could have been people, but they never wrote to me if there were. But I think that was the thing. I couldn't vouch for it, but other people were. So it was. For me, it was always like a trust relationship with the audiences. And the same with the channeling. You know, I would channel. And at that point with the channeling, I started to allow it to come through my voice and my body, which is very different to hearing words and just writing them out. And I don't know the impact on people. And it's a surreal thing because you come out of it and you don't remember everything you transmitted to people. You can't vouch for it. There are certain things that have come out my mouth that I've been horrified by. I think, oh, God, what did they just say? And, you know, if someone who knew me heard that, you know, I've kind of dealt with that all along the way, if anything, I will say it helps you. I think for me, who was raised to care what the neighbors think, it's been healthy to push against that part of me. But, you know, at the same time, I'll be honest, like some of the podcasts I've done in the last year, some of the topics they want to speak to my guides about, I do go. I don't. Do I really want to be sat on camera with my voice, my name, putting my name to this stuff? Not because I don't believe it, but I'm like, is it how I want to spend my time? Because my goal is actually to positively empower people. That's what I care about. So, you know, that's where I'm going. And I think sometimes, depending on the questioner or the questions, people can take you where they want to go. And I think when I'm in the channeling state, there's just a different level of surrender that I have to agree to.

[B]

Yeah, that was one of the questions that I had, is because if you do have this incredible power of channeling and you're, you know, and I don't

[A]

think of it as an incredible power. That's, you know. You know what I mean? If it's normal to you, you don't think. Do you think you have an incredible power as a journalist?

[B]

No, but you. I. But I think you have an incredible power because I don't have that superpower of communication.

[A]

And I might sit and you might think, you know what I mean, crazy

[B]

that I go to these angels.

[A]

The only reason I'm cautious is I think that part of the reason that channelers or any spiritualist get so attacked is because many of them have used the abuse of. I have an incredible power.

[B]

Got it. So you don't want to see it that way, or put it that way.

[A]

For me, I want to normalize the fact that we all have intuitive capacities. It doesn't mean you'll all end up as a channeler, but we can all tap into what's beyond us. So for me, that is the biggest message.

[B]

And I heard you say that. And that's why I wanted to talk about how people channel different ways and music being one of them, so that it's not seen as. That it's something that we can all tune into, possibly if we're open to it. And I really appreciate that because I'm not generally very open to this. But my. My question was in the Z's. The Z's are called the Z's, because. And this is not my question.

[A]

No, my audience called them that. So, you know, back in the day when I was doing my first workshops, there used to be three different spokespeople for the Z's, and they gave the names Zachary, Ziodora, and Zafariyah. People never knew which one was going to come through. So they used to say to me, oh, which one of the Z's are we going to get? So they would call them the Z's. And this was American audiences, because people have said, well, isn't it the Zeds if you're from England? And I'm like, oh, yeah, but I've just. So I didn't give them that name. That was what the audiences of my workshops of, you know, 30, 40, 50 people would say. So it just kind of stuck and disease.

[B]

And there are different voices for each of these three that communicated.

[A]

There were different voices for each of the three. There were different slants. But then in 2013, they said, we're going back to one singular voice, because this is a time on the planet where you need integration, not separation. And also Zachary, who was the lead spokesperson that I met, who is who I still hear to this day, it's a very male voice, and I hear him very clearly. Zaidora announced herself as Zachary's feminine counterpart, and then Zafariyah was somewhere in the middle. So that was kind of awkward because I'd been channeling for a few years when that happened, and I felt a little embarrassed about a being a man, saying I'm channeling a female entity, which, you know, I understood could annoy some women. Fair enough. But also just the, it felt a little, I don't know, I was never entirely comfortable with it, but I think

[B]

you'd be better off being channeled by.

[A]

Well, no, no, no, don't get me wrong. You know, I, I, I'm here for the feminine. Like, I've actually, I've, I've had more of an alignment with women and the feminine since I was born. But what I meant was I didn't want to. Yeah, you know what I mean? I, I felt, I don't know, I felt a kind of responsibility around it. And so, But I can't deny that it was powerful. I mean, I do in some ways miss those days because there was something about, especially Ziodora. There was this, I got to experience this incredible feminine width that was very different. It was so loving and powerful and.

[B]

Yeah, but do you choose it? You choose who to talk to or they.

[A]

No I never, I never differentiate. If I'm talking, I'm just speaking to the group and then one of them. And they didn't differentiate at first. They did after about two years and that went on for about four years and there are still some recordings from each of the three. But then they went back to one singular voice and they explained why. They said because it's. This is a time on earth where you need integration. So for me there is a balance in the group anyway. And even I, I identify. I'm very, very aware of my feminine side as well as my. I'm very aware of my feminine and masculine energy. I'm aware of both of them.

[B]

So the Zs, if they have this power and they're communicating through you, I'm assuming. And they're generally good beings, not evil beings. Right. That's a sense.

[A]

I've never had a. I've never had a bad experience with them and more have I seen them, you know. And also they're not, they're not trying to tell other people what to do. I've never seen that. I've never. If I've never seen them tell me what to do, I've never. And they actively discourage any of us doing something because any other spirit or person tells us when it goes against our own free will. So actually they're encouraging of we are here to access our sovereignty. I think if they were anything else I would never have done it publicly.

[B]

So that. Yeah, so again, so that's my question was why are. If they have this incredible power. I know you don't like to call it power, but this. Yeah, I mean power to communicate through you. And if they are ultimately have good intentions, why use it just for something as small as one on one readings with people to give them information about themselves instead of some greater good and inequality and suffering.

[A]

There is, there is.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. There is a truth to that. And at the same time I want to. One of the things they'll often say is yes, there are people who are here designed for the masses and what ripples across the masses is really important. But they will also always say, and if you are a grandmother or a single father and all your focus is going into the consciousness of your child, you are affecting consciousness on the planet. They're actually very quick to. They're very quick to balance our perspective around bigger is better, if you know what I mean. So yeah, I did stop doing readings after 15 years just because I couldn't keep up with everything and all the online Work had grown, and it was something I felt passionate about. It was really interesting to be in a room with, you know, 100 or 200 or 300 people and then bigger because you feel something different or equally to be able to then create a video like I do my monthly energy updates. You know, when I started doing those, I think my first ever one had 14,000 views, which I thought was a lot. Like, that was 2012. And now, you know, they'll go anything between, I don't know, 350 and half a million views a month on YouTube alone. And I love that that's free. I love that that's a way that, you know, I can offer something to people that can hopefully support their life. And I've got people who've been following those for 14 years. So I do think there's something powerful about being able to, you know, like what you're doing with media. There's something incredible about this time that we can bottle things, bottle energy, bottle consciousness, and it can go out there to people.

[B]

So it's something that I think about myself all the time, like my talents, the skills that I have, the work that I do. Am I doing enough to have an impact in this world? If you think about that in your. With your skills, incredible skills. What. Yeah. What do you think could you be doing differently? And what are you? What do you hope you could like? What larger impact do you wish?

[A]

Well, yeah, I know what I want to do, and I've known for a long time. It's just. It's just getting to it. So we're close. We're really close. I've always wanted to build a platform, not just for other teachers and other voices, but a platform that intelligently brings community together, like ways that we can connect. One of the things I see in this community is isolation is a huge thing. People are isolated. They feel alone in their spiritual beliefs or their, you know, their. Their desire to be a sensitive in this world. So I've had a blueprint of something for 11 years that has keeps evolving. And, you know, we're really close. We're getting there, but it's always a balancing act because it's like, I do the work I do, which is important, and I've got, you know, a team that I support of almost 20 people, and then we support the people we serve every month. But I'm. I, my. My goal is to build this bigger thing that I can be a part of, but to no longer be the focal point of my organization and to use what we have Learned about production, about vibrational quality. I'm really passionate about quality in our productions. So for me what would be expansive is to leave a legacy behind of something that's not just about, you know, capitalism or profit or being the biggest thing in the world, which I often see out there. Instead, how can we, with our creative minds, brains and hearts come up with something that's more for the world and for the future and that can bring people together? That's my, that's my long term goal.

[B]

Yeah. If, if this is in fact real and just the idea of like the people that you can actually impact. Right. Because I think being able to have readings from you or be a part of your membership group or all of that, it's, it's a privilege. Right. And it's a privilege that I'm sure that most people that follow you are people who are. Do well in life who have certain privileges that other people degree we have

[A]

a lot of free, I mean, you know, we have a lot of free stuff and that's what I love about the Internet. The beauty for me is the money that we generate in the company. It can also fund really high quality things that people will never have to pay for. And that's my ethos with the network. I'm like, how do we take the same principle and apply it so that if someone has no money, you know, you're a single parent, you're in a culture or a situation that has never allowed you to rise up the ladder and improve your circumstances. How can the network serve those people? That's my bigger goal. But yeah, we're still working towards it.

[B]

Yeah, I think it's because I always look at sort of the spiritual or like the wellness industry and it's so far from the other half of the world, you know, or the majority of the world actually that has to work 24 hour jobs and you know, have to struggle to put food on their kids table. The part of the world that I actually spend a lot of time with, people with real problems, that I would think that that's where you'd want to have an impact. Like what, what can I do on a world global level where I actually can make a difference? And again in the suffering that exists in the world and inequality in poverty, in just the sadness and that the all the horrible things that exist out there and how can I have more of a global impact instead of, you know, this small group of yes, it's hundreds of thousands of people that follow you, but do you know what I mean? And I Get you.

[A]

I guess the only thing I'll say, I don't know if I'm in control of that. Like, I'm kind of stunned that we, you know, I mean, my social media guy gives me my stats and he says, you know, we're reaching a couple of million a month through all the different platforms. I'm stunned at that number. Like it wasn't my, you know, I didn't wake up and go, I'm, I must affect millions. I didn't have that in my head. So I do know that we make an impact because we, we have a very small number of customers in that I should say. So our actual customers is, you know, very small compared to the amount of people we affect. So the customers fund what we do. So that's why I want to replicate it in the, in the network. I'm like, okay, well if we take the same ratio, how do we, how do we. For example, you're talking about people in other parts of the world. Wouldn't it be great if we could fund a small documentary showing what's going on in an area that's eight minutes long and just shows people stories of hope, stories of transformation, how that, that's. Yeah.

[B]

Or where you're, yeah, you, where you're reaching the people.

[A]

What I will say is I'm not someone who can do that because I don't, I'm not in that area of the world. I don't know it. But if we can create an umbrella and the work with people who are locally knowing what's needed and we can, you know, my goal is creation and curation. So I said, there's so much great stuff out there. Can we curate great stuff? Chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more can make me feel like a spectator in my own life.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

So it's interesting how this conversation has gone because this is not how I initially thought it was going to go. Because I do want to still talk a little bit about the part of, you know, the skeptical part of me in this conversation. I think I went straight to, if this is true, then why isn't it having a larger impact? Basically. But let me rewind it a little bit.

[A]

Because it's not mainstream, I would say

[B]

I don't think it is not mainstream, but because it is a luxury. That's what I'm saying. I think that access to you or that's true.

[A]

I don't think it's a luxury. I don't think it's a luxury to press play on YouTube.

[B]

No, it's not.

[A]

So you can access me every single time.

[B]

If you have time to watch your tv.

[A]

Time, sure. If you have time. Well, yeah. And if you're in survival. And I do agree that if we, if we have time, if we have the privilege of time to go on a journey of self discovery. Discovery, we are privileged. You know, I.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

I recognize that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And I'm not putting on you, I'm not saying you now have to change the world, the whole world, because that is your power. But I just thought it was just something that, when you were talking about it, that I thought, yeah, really interesting that you're doing individual readings, but wouldn't it be so much cooler if you could actually write something bigger?

[A]

I did stop readings in 2019 so that I could do more of the work. But I think, I think to the point is it's not just me, meaning I think spirit is finding people everywhere. So there's a certain version of spirit that I have, you know, someone who's in a really tough situation somewhere in a part of the world I've never visited, there is going to be someone in their community who is the one who.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

So I think that's, I mean, that's

[B]

what shamans can be.

[A]

Yeah. Or not even shamans. I think, you know, the wise grandmother who just seems to know a lot and seems to be the one with the empathic Capacity to hold people. So, you know, one of the things I will say is that a lot of the work I do is with this is feedback I get. It's not, it's not something I went looking for. I'm often there for people who are helping others or people who are, you know that. So. So in that way I feel connected to that web and I hear their stories all the time. You know, they email in or so. Yeah. But I also don't think, I don't personally think everyone has to come to come at this through channeling at all. I wasn't a channeling fan, you know, I had other things I was interested in. It just happened to me. So I think at the end of the day, what you're looking for is consciousness to find you through people or through conversations or through experiences. But it's going to be as diverse as we are. It's going to have to come through the cracks of everywhere in different ways.

[B]

So what are some of the messages that you've heard about the world? What are some of. Yeah, the messages that they've wanted to.

[A]

Some of the messages about the world as a whole right now. Okay, well, that we're going through difficult, dark times where a lot is being revealed. A lot is the corruption of the planet that has been here for a long time is beginning to surface. We're going to continue to see systems break down. We're going to continue to go through a reckoning in leadership. And we're in a time of essentially revolution and it's already begun. It hasn't reached its peak. But that's the time that we're in. It's a moment where power moves back to the people. At the moment we're not in a power for the people situation. We're in a top down.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

So they've talked a lot about that over the years. They bring up some of the whys, some of it gets quite galactic in origin. So yeah, it's. It's hard to just get what depends where you want to go, I guess.

[B]

Why, why is this happening? Why do they say this is happening and where is it leading?

[A]

A few different reasons. They say that consciousness is changing on the planet. We are becoming higher consciousness. Part of the reason that we see more darkness and more force for control is it's an opposite reaction to the fact that consciousness is growing. But there are groups on the planet who want us to be more controlled and more. What's the word? Enslaved.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that is the fight that we're in right now. And as we go through the coming years, they say that it's not one group. It's not one group who is trying to do this. There are multiple groups vying for control and that some of them are going to annihilate each other and cancel each other out. The question is, how much damage do we have to go through in humanity before a rebuild?

[B]

And the groups were talking about human groups?

[A]

Well, yes and no. That's what they've said. They've said some of this goes way back and it's galactic. And I'm sorry, I'm trying to. I'm trying. Well, let me see if I can get the. Hang on,

[B]

are you channeling right now?

[A]

I'm not channeling. I'm just trying to see if they can give me. Because they, they don't hesitate with any of this stuff. But it's. It's. I don't want to get. I don't want to say the wrong thing because depending on what angle you go, these statements have a lot of impact for people. So they talk about before 10,000 years ago, there was a desire to control humanity, that we had far more evolutionary ability than we have been able to possess, and that this period of history was always going to be a point where we would remember our galactic origins and come back to an experience of knowing we're part of the universe, not just Earth. And so right now, what you're seeing is the old guard who've had control of Earth for a very long time, doing a kind of final play in a way, trying to drag us backwards into something more reminiscent of, if you like, something more barbaric, something more limited than we've ever been. But the part of the reason they're doing that is because people are beginning to wake up and people are beginning to come back into their own alignment, their own power. So that's the friction point that we're. That we're in right now. But of course, the way it's reported to us is that we're defeated. So the way it's reported to us is this is just how it's going and there's nothing you can do about it. Hopefully, we'll all believe that and buy into that. But what's slowly beginning to happen is more and more people are going against that narrative, and many people are already building what's coming next.

[B]

But what you're saying is that the power that's controlling us is an outer world power. It's not. It's. We're not talking about President Trump.

[A]

They've talked about. No, they've talked about four different groups and they say that, you know, they've talked about four different groups who are. One is benevolent and the other three are not. And there's a kind of fight going on behind the scenes, basically.

[B]

And you believe that they want us to believe that this is gonna end badly, but you believe that it's gonna.

[A]

No, it's not that they want us to believe that this is gonna end badly, but they want us to believe that we have no choice, that this is just where it's going.

[B]

But you don't believe that.

[A]

I. I'm. I'm curious. I'm. I'm curious. I've heard so many messages from them about this over the years that I don't believe it's going the way it looks like it's going, which is into a more controlled, limited world. I don't know how it's going to play out, though. Just as a human being, I'm also watching it going. This is wild, like what we're seeing.

[B]

It's interesting that you say that they are saying or you believe also that there's more consciousness. Do you think that's true, that there's more consciousness?

[A]

I do. Within humanity? I do.

[B]

So I would disagree with that because although I do think there's more talk of consciousness these days, I was just recently, actually, and I wrote it down because I thought it would be interesting to bring it to this conversation. I was reading an article by a. A poet called Christian Wyman. I think his name is produced, pronounced, it's in Harper's Magazine. And he talks about. It's an article called the Tune of Things. If you haven't read it, it's actually so interesting. But he talks about the idea that, you know, the difference between the right brain and the left brain. Right. The right brain tends to see in holes. It's, you know, a source of intuition which you talk a lot about. It knows essentially mostly what it doesn't know. Right. And then you've got the left brain side of your brain, which is much more analytical and likes to categorize. And you know, anything that is invisible or outside the system, you can't compute it with. Right. And that for years or decades, centuries. That, that your body, that the right side of your brain is supposed to control the left side of your brain so that you are more in tune with nature and that part of, you know, intuition and consciousness in a way. And. But that actually the last 25, 30, 40 years, you know a lot and Particularly in the recent years because of the Internet and because of social media and video games and, you know, people just spending all this time in front of a computer and going down these algorithms and being just so out of touch with the reality around them and with. Yeah, with intuition and with consciousness that we've somehow allowed the left part of your brain to control the right part of your brain. And that's not how it's supposed to be. And that actually, that is what is bringing about this sort of darkness into the world. Because we're not in tune with our feelings, with our intuition. And I thought that was really, that to me, really wrong other humans.

[A]

Or is it? Is it?

[B]

I think in his description of it, and I am not an expert on consciousness whatsoever, but from what I gathered with it is that, yeah, we've reversed the natural order. The left brain has become the master when it always meant to be the emissary. And this is straight from the article that billions of people staring at screens, unable to form real attachments or be in tune with intuition or the right side of their brain. No, I think this comes from sort of this sense of consciousness that exists. Right. That it's not that the world isn't just myself and the objects, that it's everything that's in between. Right, yeah. And that that's the part of the world that has been sort of shut off more than it was before.

[A]

That is interesting because the one thing the Z's will talk about is the technology dangers. Like they say, there's a gift of it. It brings a lot of information. It brings a kind of telepathy to the world in a different way. And then the challenge is we lose biological relay. That's what they say. We're losing that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, I think if you aren't conscious of that and if you are lost in that. But I don't know what I would hope is at a certain point people start to feel more lost because we aren't technology. I mean, you could argue some people would say, well, we're consciousness technology, but we aren't technology. So that becomes quite vapid and quite stuck. Yeah. So no, I. Again, it's interesting.

[B]

Yeah. But you still think people are more in tune with their intuition these days?

[A]

I think in general there's far more emotional awareness and intuition than I remember ever seeing on Earth. And consciousness. And of course I work in it, but I'm also paying it. I don't normally study my area where, you know, with what other people are doing. I'm often Looking at other, Other parts of the world or. And I do notice there is a. For me, there's more of a presence with people which doesn't just seem to be, as a reflection of my own, perhaps, what I'm bringing. I do notice there is something a bit more. A bit more available in people. And of course it won't be everyone, but I often think that what's happening, or what I perceive is a lot of people are being fed. Particularly if you look at the rise of dictatorship right now around the world and how dark that is. And that isn't putting humanity first at all. That's creating objects of us. And basically, I think that's the piece that they've talked about. They say as, as the consciousness of humans is rising, you're also seeing the dark rise. So that's how I've understood it. The biggest question I always have is, well, how do we get above that? Like, what is it that's going to break dictatorship? What is it that's going to break the systems of control? And that's what I'm curious about.

[B]

And what do they say?

[A]

I haven't. Well, they say it's going to play out. They say you're going to see more truth come out. And they say that we're going to be quite shocked in the next couple of years. They say more is coming. And as that comes out, it will be a combination of more truth being revealed about the world that people didn't know, coupled with people being squeezed in a way that they will. Their fire will come online and that's when we'll see a shift. That's what they've said.

[B]

Are you concerned? Are you. How do you feel? Personally?

[A]

Am I concerned? I mean, yeah. I mean, I don't like what I see in the world a lot of the time, and I. I don't like watching this darkness kind of permeate in the way that I see it. You know, it's not what many of us grew up seeing as a whole. We knew there were areas of the world where it was happening and we were pretty shielded because we didn't have the Internet. So it was only what our media told us. But I. I don't walk around the world every day concerned because I. I feel like I have to be here for what I'm here for and what we're here for. But it hits me hard. You know, there are things, there are periods of time that will hit me hard where you see what's going on in the world and then you move through it and you get back up and you carry on and you do what you're here for. A friend of mine that I was having dinner with a couple weeks ago, she has studied a lot of Buddhism and she said that she heard something in Buddhism once that she resonated with, which is whether we're heading towards the apocalypse or heaven, your role remains the same. If you're here for consciousness, you're going to continue to bring it if it's the apocalypse or, or if you're heading toward heaven. And I thought, well, that's actually a really, a really good, A good thing to remember. We're all going to die at some point. We tend to forget that. So if you know what you're aligned and living with that for me feels true. And standing for, in my case at the moment, it's standing for consciousness. I don't know what my role will be in 10 years time, it might be very different.

[B]

You've actually said something about this that I really liked, which was you said, let me see if I can find it. But you said that it's not, it's not what you believe in, but it's how you behave. Something like that, right? Was how you behave versus how you believe. And I like that a lot because that I, as a person who's not particularly spiritual, I always said that it's not whether I go to church or I believe in a God or whether whatever it is, the important thing is how you act in the world and how you behave and how you are towards others and whether you treat people around you with kindness.

[A]

That is spirituality to me. So it's like I've always said, I'd much rather be stuck in an elevator with a kind skeptic than a judgmental, spiritually learned person. Because you can have a much nicer time with the kind skeptic. If they don't care that they don't agree with you, I don't care. You know, it's like I, I'm not, I'm not looking for people to agree with everything I say or believe. I'm not actually looking for other people to validate my beliefs in that way. I am looking for connection. And connection for me is always values.

[B]

I love that because that I can really relate to. And I hope you see me as a kind skeptic.

[A]

No, I get it. It's interesting. No, it's always interesting. You know, some of the conversations I've had over the last year on these podcasts. It's interesting because I get your skepticism And I also understand. I think one of the hardest things for me with some of those questions is. And I think this is where people go wrong with channeling or with spirituality. Is there is still this idea. Well, it has the answer. Of course it doesn't. There is no the. I don't believe there is a. The answer. I believe there are multiple answers. We're all a bit different. We're all a bit different in our orientation. You might have come here, not you particularly, but someone might have come here with a life of skepticism, and that's what they need. So I'm never someone who's like, oh, we must bust them out of that skepticism. I've met a lot of spiritual people I wouldn't want to go on holiday with, and I've met a lot of people who don't believe in spirituality, who I would really enjoy being on holiday with because of how they behave in the world.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I also think that there's a lot of people out there who, when they meet somebody, they're. I mean, particularly in the. In journalism, you see that there's a lot of people out there whose number one goal is to unmask, Right. It's to try to show the holes whether. Whereas in the work that I do is actually quite the opposite. Is I'm trying to see the full picture and not the holes. And trying. That connection to me has always been very important. I have a friend who says I'm the most gullible journalist she's ever met. Because. Because that connection to me is so important doesn't mean that I don't, you

[A]

know, why did she say that about you? That I find interesting. Gullible in what way?

[B]

I think it's because I have a. As skeptical as I am, and I will ask the questions. As a naturally curious person, I'm not afraid of asking questions, but generally I. I'm a very optimistic person and I really, truly believe in people and in human beings that my first instinct is to believe rather than not believe or to trust rather than not trust. And I. I think that's what she means by that, is that I spend a lot of time. She's one of my best friends. And when I'm the kind of person that I will meet you, I like you, and I will invite you. I'm going to spend the weekend with me next. And I've done this throughout my life.

[A]

So you're open. You're very open. You're open because it's funny to me. Maybe it's just a Language thing. But to me, gullibility is different. Like if you, you. My experience of you is you're very analytical in your mind. You're tracking everything. You're studying me. And you hold your body and you hold your emotions, and you're not, you're, you're not open. And I don't mean that in a bad way. You shouldn't be because of your job. But a gullible person to me is someone who's got absolutely no boundaries and just goes, oh, yeah, you're not that. Maybe you're open. But no, I don't experience you as gullible at all. I think you're very on in the way you should be. You're friendly, you're polite, but there's a lot going on. And in a gullible person, they're just not analyzing anything. In my experience. They're just going, oh, okay, yeah.

[B]

Is this a reading? Are you reading me right now?

[A]

No, I'm just telling you my experience of you. Because I also, you know, that's the thing. A lot of people focus on the channeling, but usually intuitives or people with sensitivity, we have multiple. So I have intuitive sensitivity, I have empathy, and then I can channel. So they're, they're all different aspects of the same thing. But no, I, I can feel, you know, you also, it's very rare that I'm sat opposite someone who's kind of grilling me on things. So this is a less normal experience for me.

[B]

You think I'm grill. Grilling you? I think people will think that I haven't grilled you enough, probably.

[A]

Well, if they're skeptical, yeah, absolutely. But, but also, I don't know.

[B]

I didn't bring you here to.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

And I show people that you're lying to me. I brought you here because I'm generally very curious about your work and I wanted to be open to trying to understand it. And.

[A]

No, yeah. And I, I think what I'm. What I mean is you hold your.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You hold a balanced point of view, which is correct for your audience as well. So. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Can you do a reading on me?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

What do you have? What do I have to do for you?

[A]

Okay. You're coming into a time of your life that's going to be quite wild. Not wild bad, but especially from 2027 onwards, things are going to kind of explode in your life in surprising ways on intimate and personal levels. But also with your work, it's going to be challenging because you're going to be quite Surprised that path is not going to be what you think it is. You have a sense of your capacity to, you know, you're here for big things, not from an egoic standpoint, but that you can hold it, you're built for it. You kind of are a bit of a warrior leader type in that way. But 2027 onwards, the world is going to get quite wild. Your own experience and your own work in the world is going to get more expanded and you're going to go through a lot of personal healing. It's already begun. It kind of started for you in 2025, but it's going to really reach a crescendo around 2027. And you're going to become more open hearted, but not in the way that you would think because you're already a very open hearted person towards people. That's, that's normal for you. You're going to become open hearted in a very wise way and you're going to have a real power about you at the moment. You have power that is disarming to people because of the way you connect with them emotionally. But your power is coming through your mind, your capacity to map and graph information, bring things back, organize it and you kind of drive that way at the moment, but you're going to get more intuitive around your heart. So even though you're going to be more open hearted, it won't look like you're more warm and fuzzy because you don't need more of that. It's actually going to look more laser focused and you're going to have very little time next year for bullshit. It's not that you don't have time, you don't have time for bullshit now, but there's a certain level of it that you've just kind of had to get used to being around in order to do what you're here for next year. You're going to have like, if I look at summer 2027, you're going to be in a more powerful position and a more of a position of power, which is a tricky word, but that is the truth that you will allow you to just kind of laser focus cut through things and you're really going to turn your focus towards justice in an even bigger way. And it's going to be justice on behalf of people. And you've already done that in your life. I'm aware of a documentary you did that was very much speaking up for those who had no voice. But it's going to get more global and it's Going to get bigger for you. You're just going to need to look after your body. You run a lot of energy through your body, more than you sometimes let yourself realize. And so your body will just need really good care and grounding from you in order for you to be able to handle it all. But what I see in your life as well on a personal level from 2027 onwards is I see a lot of love, like a lot of love, like really deep love. Not just with, you know, one or two individuals, but really very much a lot of love in you for what you do, for who you are. And that was one of the hardest things in your childhood. It was not being met with love when you would bring it because for you that didn't make any sense. And you were very good at bringing love and you had a few people who would bring it to you. But it also, you never understood lack of love as a child. That was part of your gps, your radar when you first came in. And so everything you do is about love and it's about trying to return people to love. But yeah, it's almost like your mind is about to move down into your heart energetically by the middle of next year and you will have some bullshit to deal with that will help you get clearer about that. And maybe that's what your friend meant about gullible, I'm not sure. But you know, you won't be as open to the wrong people and you will get very mission focused, which is interesting, isn't it? Because I kind of get the feeling you're already mission focused. But it's going to go, it's going to go to a whole other level and you will need your wits about you and you will need your trusted people and you will have them, and you do have them now, but there's a few more coming in. You will be supported to do what you're here to do. But you will have to look after your body because your body's gonna need you and you're gonna need your body to ground it all.

[B]

That's amazing. Thank you so much. That was very generous of you.

[A]

Not at all.

[B]

So was it the Z's talking?

[A]

No, I don't hear that as the Z's. No, but again, I think it's all. If the Z's are the penthouse, I have to go up the skyscraper a few floors to get that. No, it's just, it's all. I mean, I. Yeah, and I could keep going and you know, and also I could respond to questions or Areas you would like me to look at and give you information. But yeah, that, that's. No, that's just around you. If I focus, like, I'm not. You gave me permission to do it and I'm choosing to do it. But it's not like I'm not like everyone I meet. I'm doing that to them unless there's some reason I need to pay attention.

[B]

When you give people these readings, is it mostly positive things or has it. Do you also sometimes give readings that are harder for people to hear?

[A]

I think there have been. There have been. And, but, but it's not necessarily that the messages are harsh, but it might clash with what people want. So, you know, I've had people ask me about, but not just when I did readings, but now if I, If I'm doing a workshop and I have people on stage with me, like, someone might come and sit with me for 20 minutes, half an hour, and we'll go through something that's a theme in the room. But they'll be talking about their personal stuff and they might talk about a relationship and they might go, I'm in this relationship, and da, da, da, da, da. And I will tell them, like, if I, if I see what the lesson of that relationship is, and sometimes that isn't convenient for them. But I'm never going to say, oh, you should leave that person, or that's their decision. But what I will tell them is what I'm seeing about it. And sometimes if they haven't yet seen can. It can be jarring. But I'm. I'm not in the business of telling people they're doing anything wrong because I don't believe in that. I've done so many things in my life that I wish I had saved myself the time. You know, I think we learn that way.

[B]

Are you curious about how I. What I think about what you said about me? Sure. Do you usually hear feedback from people?

[A]

It depends. It depends, but sure. Yeah.

[B]

So you were right on, on the transformation. And next year I'm essentially in a huge moment of transformation in my, in my career and my job. You know, I'm starting a media company. I mean, I already have Muck Media, but I'm starting a sister media company which is based on the work that I do direct to consumer. So a lot is changing on my life at that. Respect the intimate and love part. I'm surrounded by people that I love very much and that I believe love me. I'm very, very, very fortunate. I have a husband that I adore that I get along with very well. I have a son that I could not. It's the perfect son for me. I always say we have a wonderful relationship, so I'm not sure how that can get better, but possibly the part about me as a child, I grew up in a household where my parents were divorced and there was a lot of fighting growing up, but I also was always filled with love. So it's harder for me to see where the lack of love was. Perhaps it is, and perhaps it wasn't something that I was very conscious of at the time. So you do this for people. So you don't do this for people anymore now?

[A]

No, I did. For 15 years I did this. And now I now I answer people's questions intuitively once a month in the portal. But also when I do the energy updates every month or, you know, other videos that we might put out for free, I do a monthly reading. That, of course, is tricky because you're reading for, you know, hundreds of thousands or millions of people. So there's a level of generality to it. There has to be. But I always give eight themes for the month, and I'm always hopeful that people might find themselves in two or three so that whatever is shared, there's a way of navigating it. But for me, I think what I find validating if I go to an intuitive it's really helpful when things are reflected to you, not because the information has to be correct or it tells you what to do, but because it, in a way it helps you lock in on what's true for you. That for me, it's almost like a training of your own alignment, your own way of being. That's what I like about it. And I think the biggest problem that I've noticed with intuition is when your own ego gets in the way. You know, and I've, you know, I've been to some bad readers or healers in my time where maybe they do have a gift, but their own ego is too in the way of their gift and too in the way of you and them. And so, yeah, I do think there's a level of surrender or kind of neutrality that you have to get to to be able to do it. And then the neutrality is also, I don't really know whether that lands for you or not, because I'm not in you. All I can tell you is what I saw, what I was given to say, and that that also is why I think the job is hard to qualify because it's qualified by other people. It's not something I can qualify. Even the Z's, I can't qualify what they're saying, which is weird, but it is what it is. So the reason I've done it and the reason I'm still doing it is because of people's response. Now, of course, there are naysayers, and of course, the more I'm on podcasts like this, if I chose to look at the comments, you know, you're going to see a lot of people attacking or their own skepticism, you will become the target for. But I also recognize that in. In general, I kind of. The goal is always, you hope that you're helping. You hope that you're reaching people, and it's helping them in some way, but it's also how they use. It is really. Is really up to them. My mother always says she wants to be useful, and it's just. It's a thing that she says. And it's funny. As I've got older, I've kind of gone, oh, I kind of. So for me, it's a little bit.

[B]

The question that I was asking you before. Right.

[A]

It's like, if it's useful, great. But there are so many other things I could have done or could do. That's kind of a bit like you said. You wonder, are you doing enough? I have that question. Like, I think a lot of people do. You're like, is this the right use of my time? Is this the best thing I could be doing? It's why I thought about stopping the channeling many times, because I thought, well, I could be an effective intuitive facilitator for people I know.

[B]

And less people would think that what you do is bullshit because you obviously do have.

[A]

Yeah, but you could also argue that if I was completely motivated by success, I would have done that because I would have been more successful.

[B]

Yes, but at the same time, you wouldn't get the same attention.

[A]

Right.

[B]

If you were just a person with an artist.

[A]

Negative attention for being a chat. I don't. That's why I don't look at the comments. That's not. You know what I mean? That's not. I don't. I don't think that's true. I. I'm only getting attention for the channeling in the last year or so because I'm agreeing to go on more mainstream podcasts.

[B]

Because you're becoming more successful.

[A]

I guess so. Or it's. Or it's more that. Yeah. As you, as your work grows.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You permeate the areas that perhaps don't Agree with what you do. So. So that. That's true.

[B]

What was it like when you told you you're very close to. You're close to your mom?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is she the closest person when you were growing up in your family?

[A]

Yeah, we were very close. We lost our relationship for about five years when I came out to her as.

[B]

As being gay or as being.

[A]

Yeah, when I was 16.

[B]

I've heard you say that it was harder for you to say that I was a channeler. Well, actually, then it was that you were gay.

[A]

It was pretty brutal. I mean, coming out was not easy for me at all. It was a really traumatic time. It was difficult.

[B]

So when you told her at 16, she stopped talking to you.

[A]

She. We. We stopped talking to each other in the house. But no one would have known that when they were there. We were really close. We were really bonded. And then at 16, when I told her that, she asked me, my father has since passed. She asked me not to tell him for at least a couple years. She didn't know if I knew my own mind and thought maybe I'd been influenced. And so we went from being very close to being completely quiet in the house and going off to separate rooms for, like, two years. But if the family dinner was happening, it would have looked completely normal to everybody.

[B]

But your dad was still alive then. He just passed away recently.

[A]

My dad passed away in 2020.

[B]

I'm so sorry to hear that. I wonder if you weren't gay and if you had been accepted totally throughout your life by everyone around you, including particularly your family, if you would be a channeler.

[A]

I know what you're going to say. Yeah, that's a good point. Who knows? Who knows? Yeah, who knows? I wonder if. If I'd have gotten to music, would I have gone that way? You know?

[B]

Yeah, of course.

[A]

All the different.

[B]

But the feeling like you're different from everybody else also makes you perhaps more open to believing in something that's out there.

[A]

I definitely think. I definitely think if you are raised and, you know, you're not heterosexual, whatever your orientation is, I do think it automatically puts you outside society or society tells you you're an outsider. So I think when you are, you know, I didn't know this at the time, but I've reflected on that. I think it does make you more open to alternative ways of belief, or

[B]

I think that's probably why you were seeking it so much at the time. Even before. Do you think?

[A]

I think it was.

[B]

I'm telling you this.

[A]

No, no, it's Good. It's good. It's like my therapy session. Thank you. I think, I think it was. It's hard for me to know whether the eating disorder began because of sexuality awareness or because of sensitivity awareness or it could have been both, I don't know. I also now know that my parents were going through a hard time around the same time I developed it. I didn't know that, but they were. It was tough when they moved. And so our family dynamic changed. On the surface, everything looked fine, but because I was someone who could feel things, there were things going on that I, you know, found out later.

[B]

Working on a project on scams right now. And I've done a lot of reporting on it. One of the ones that I'm doing right now is also involved celebrity scams, which are huge. So people who believe they're in communication.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

With George Clooney.

[A]

Yeah. We've had, we've had fake pages made, selling people readings and it's.

[B]

And I've spoken to some of the victims and they say at one point I kind of knew it wasn't this person that I was talking to or even a romantic partner that they thought they were talking to. And it wasn't, it was a, you know, a scammer somewhere else in the world. But they just. Their lives. It goes back to what you said initially about loneliness. Right. Their lives as they are. The reality of their lives is so lonely and sad that they prefer to live in this fantasy land that there is, you know, somebody out there for them, that somebody's interested in them, that somebody wakes up every morning and they have a message from that person, somebody's love bombing them. That's. Even if that person is not real, it's a better reality than the one they live in. And I think that can apply a lot to your fields as well, to your spirituality as well.

[A]

I definitely, I'm guilty of that. In romantic relationships that I had in my 20s and 30s where, you know, I ended up with people I, you know, the, the. The part of me that wanted to love and be loved and kind of be in that relationship would, would. I ended up in quite a few. Dodgy. Yeah, so I get it, I get it.

[B]

But again, in the spirituality, I think even more so, you know, because it is with a scammer, you have a one on one relationship and you can take a few thousand dollars from them. But with the spirituality, What do you call it? World. World of spirituality. It is. There's a lot of propensity for people being scammed Essentially believing that they're talking to a medium and it's. Maybe some of it exists. I'm a real skeptic in that there's. That I'd be able to talk to my grandmother, who I absolutely adored. I have more skepticism towards that. I don't think that would be possible. And a lot of people who don't have that skill or that power, even if that power exists, sell it as something real. And that's where I think it can also get really horrible and dirty and exploitative. Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because, yeah, it has a real impact in people's lives.

[A]

It's interesting because I've always thought, well, some of the cults I've seen, and this is why I always resisted having trainings or levels or. And again, I have to be careful because I think there are some wonderful programs out there that train you through the levels. But I always wanted people to come to me autonomously and leave. So I do a single workshop. And it wasn't like, at the end of that workshop, I'm like, now you must do this workshop. And I would always say, hopefully you're going to take some stuff from here today. But maybe, you know, maybe this didn't resonate for you. So I'm often teaching those principles, you know, take what resonates and leave the rest. So I've never. I've never had a thing where I've said, oh, you must do this, or you. But I do see that not just in spirituality, in religion as well. You see certain religious groups or mega churches or. And. And I know they've done a lot of studies on this, but like you said, it's people who are lonely, people who are fractured around belonging and so to belong to something. So I never wanted a congregation. I. I saw a couple of channelers who had a congregation and had, like, regular followers. So I think mine has always been a bit more. You might come and stay, you might not. There isn't really a system. You know, I have a monthly membership, but you can cancel any month you want. You know, if it's no longer serving you, you'll leave. If it's, you know, some people stay for a month, get what they want and go. Some people are still there 10 years later because it's still. What we put in there is still serving them. So for me personally, that's it. It's like, okay, well, we have free things that go out there. You know, I've done loads of podcast episodes and I. So I. I think that's the best thing you can do. I mean, I'm.

[B]

And you don't think there's any negative impact on anyone from the work that you do? There's not, it's not impacting negatively anyone.

[A]

Not that I'm aware of. And I, you know, I would, we would always, if ever we heard that or felt that, then we would, you know, we would want to help or. But I've not heard that or experienced that.

[B]

And so how would you say that you're distinguishing yourself or differentiating yourself from others out there that don't. That.

[A]

Well, I think the only thing, the only thing is what I just told you. You know, that was, that was the thing I saw that could create a bit of a cult vibe or. Now you. I also had seen a channel or two who, their channels would tell people what they were supposed to do next. And I would always find that odd. Maybe I'm wrong, but yeah, for me, I always would find that odd.

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

They would, their guides would tell their congregation, do this. Oh, you must come and do this workshop next in order to get here or pay this, you must fund this for us. Exactly. And I was always like, wow, is this, you know, is this real? Is this. So anyway. But again, none of my business. Not my world.

[B]

Yeah. So, yeah, yeah. And it goes back to that question that I sort of was talking a bit, a little bit about the beginning. But some of the conferences that you've been a part of, I believe, or at least I'm sure you're invited to, a lot of these also attract a lot of bullshitters. Yeah, right.

[A]

You can see that. And, and, and equally I will say that in the audiences at those conferences or at any self growth or spirituality workshop, there is often a fringe element. There are often people in the audiences who perhaps are or can be a little less balanced in themselves, whether it's emotional or psychological.

[B]

Do you think they actually believe the stuff they're selling? I mean, let's be specific. Like flat Earthers. And I've actually done a story about flat Earthers and spent time with them.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

Or people who talk about the reptilian elite or even having sex with reptiles.

[A]

Right.

[B]

With Galactic.

[A]

I don't know. I, you know, I, I don't. I mean, I'm willing to believe there are people who absolutely believe it. It's hard for me to get my head in the game of some. Like, why would you. I don't know. I can't, I can't imagine making that up. So then you think, well, why they must believe It. Or it must be the reality that. But then, you know, I do believe that there are those who seem to enjoy taking from others, finding clever ways to take from others. So I guess there are those.

[B]

So. But do you worry that you partaking in these conferences or being associated to these people somehow is adding more to. Because if. If what you're doing is real, and if you are not a scammer, a scammer like them. Thank you. Then you wouldn't want to associate with them. Right. You wouldn't want to add to that industry.

[A]

Well, if I'm invited to any conference, I always look at who else is there. And if. If I'm not resonant. Because. Because ultimately, what I also recognize at this point is I'm endorsing anything I go to in the eyes of some people or the people who know me. So I haven't really done many conferences in recent years. Not that I don't think there are great people out there, but I honestly, I think it's hard to create unity at a conference where you've got multiple speakers. I really do. And, yeah, there was one conference I was invited to about four or five years ago, and there was someone on the bill that I just had a very bad feeling about. There were some other great people, but I was like, I can't do it. And, you know, it wasn't massively painful to me. It would have been nice to go, maybe, but I'm like, no, I don't. So I think you do have to be careful.

[B]

Yes. And I'm also talking about the responsibility that you have in making sure that the people that follow you, that have now become perhaps more open to the idea that there's something out there that they can't quite explain, that then they don't fall prey of people who, you know, are there for the wrong. Well, with the wrong intentions.

[A]

Well, and here's what I'll say to that. Mariana. There were some people I had on my podcast who, you know, there were a couple of shows we canned and we didn't air, and there were a couple of shows with big people where I came away and I thought, ooh, I had the show. I was honest in the interview, and I never said at the end, you must go and follow this person. That wasn't the point. The ethos I had was, let's talk to creatives and spiritual teachers in the world about their process and about their journey. And that was my ethos. It wasn't me saying, you must now go and buy their program.

[B]

Were you, were you interested in the whole uap, all the disclosures that have been made recently, the unidentified Aerial phenomena?

[A]

I mean, I. I'm interested in it in that I was reading Communion at the age of 13 and I was obsessed with the X Files and anything I could find in my teenage years. And I am interested in it. I found it really interesting when the. You. I haven't been following it, but I found it really interesting. It was about 10 years ago, I think the UK had, they released the UFO files and someone came out and said that they had been told for that if anyone came forward with a story of a UFO abduction or a UFO sighting, we were to use spin and dirty tricks in the article about that person to defame them to discourage people from coming forward. And he said, that's what we've been told to do for years. And he. A guy came out and this is all this is reported and documented. Now that was a decade or so ago. And I remember going, oh. And that felt like the first piece of the puzzle that the Z's had talked about for years. But the one thing I am aware of, not just from the Z's who have said this, but I also hear this from people who really spend their time looking at UFO and unexplained phenomena that you have to question why we're being told things when how accurate it is. It's like, you know, what's. While we're all focused on the Epstein files, which is horrific and needs to be seen and understood. What's going through the Senate over on the right. And while we're all distracted over here, there are things that are happening in the world that there's a lot of you look here now while we do something else over here. So I haven't looked at it, but I'm always curious about why it was released, why it's released now. I mean, we know this stuff has been there for a long time. I'm always curious about what the agenda is because if, if things are given to us freely, I tend to not trust it. I tend to wonder what's behind what's going on.

[B]

Yeah, so, yeah, so it's been all these secret programs, right, that have been trying to understand these unidentified aerial phenomena that for decades and decades were secretive. And then recently they have been, you

[A]

see, I even doubt that. What do you doubt? That they're trying to understand it. That's probably what we're being told that the secret programs were for them. Try. I doubt that.

[B]

So what do you think they Were trying to.

[A]

I think there has been collaboration. I think there has been very conscious, aware collaboration for decades.

[B]

You think they've been communicating with aliens?

[A]

Oh, I, I believe, I believe the things that I have heard reported from multiple sources. And I'm not talking about them, I'm talking about, you know, the things that, that I've seen and read over the years. There's so many stories. Yeah, I've had loads of friends who've had contact experiences. Mine is mainly telepathic, although I've had a couple of very visceral experiences. So I've always believed it's there. I've just wondered when we're going to get to a point in the world and why, where it becomes disclosed and how that's handled and what the agenda is.

[B]

And so what? So, okay, so the government has come out and has agreed, admitted that there are in fact UA, UAPs that exist which. But they don't know what it is. Right. They have said there's. I think it was 22. I actually wrote this down. Yeah, I think it was. The US government has logged over 1600 UAP reports, classify 21, only 21 as genuinely unexplained. And officially they say that they have no idea what they are. So they haven't said, yes, we agree, we know that they are extraterrestrial. There's a lot of different answers that they've believe. Maybe it's, you know, some sort of secret weapon program from China, or maybe it is even secret weapons program from the United States that only certain very few amount of people in power are able to know of about.

[A]

Yeah, also very possible. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So, but if it is in fact what you think there have in fact been communications, why do you think they haven't disclosed that?

[A]

It's funny, you know, I, I don't, I don't feel super comfortable answering that question because again, I don't feel qualified. I don't feel studied enough. But my sense of it is because we are told things on a need to know basis. I think that's the thing that I have come to really understand. I never thought that when I was younger, you know, I probably believed everything I saw and heard. Now I don't really believe anything that we are told is the actual truth. I believe there are multiple truths behind what we're told that we aren't told. So that's kind of, you know, my basis of reality. Now, unlike some people, I'm not living in anger or fear about that. I'm just living in. Oh, okay. I see this world that we're sold and told is not, is not, is not what it really is.

[B]

But because it's some. The people that are in power do not want that information.

[A]

Those and the people behind the people in power that we don't see or

[B]

meet and we are talking about people on Earth or people outside of Earth on Earth because they have the power and they don't want to lose it. And disclosing it, it would possibly, possibly.

[A]

I, I don't, I don't profess to know all the details because I don't. It's not like I study this stuff or spend hours asking the Z's about this stuff. But of course it comes across my radar all the time because of the questions I'm asked and why here the Z's saying.

[B]

I mean, wouldn't this be a priority question for you to ask the Z's about how the world is run and the secrets that they're keeping from us?

[A]

Well, in a way, I've heard more than I care to hear at this point because you also. I'm not here as a. What's the word? I think I know what my job is. My job is to be here for people to help the people that I help. I'm not here as a, as a. I'm not the person who's here to expose the what or the who. That's not my job and it's not my area of interest because I'm not now rushing off probably doing what you do, which is going down the research rabbit holes. That's not my design and it's not my skill. So therefore I know there are people out there doing that though.

[B]

So yeah, it interestingly goes back to when you first had these messages which you were more interested in the result than you were in trying to understand how they got to you.

[A]

I think because I come, I do come more from a feeling and an intuitive and a sensing place in that. In that sense. So therefore, that's also why I feel like not unqualified to answer that question. But I wouldn't want to answer. I'm interested in the people who are really studying all that stuff and you know, who are researching it. And I'm interested what they are finding. I think sometimes we, I think the problem with spiritual messages sometimes is we take them as gospel, as the main fact or the only fact. But I think what they often do is point us in the direction of go and do some research in the area and find more out. So even if the Z's Gave us a complete, you know, answer. I was on a podcast the other day, and he asked who the four groups were, and they very clearly said, that's not. A, that's not our place to say, B, that's not Lee's place to say, and C, it will completely distract you, and it will distract where you're at right now as a society. That's not the thing you need to know right now. So that's kind of where I sit with it all, which is why I get that it's annoying for some people because they're like, well, why can't you just tell us if you know everything? And I'm like, well, I don't. B, their job isn't to sit here knowing everything, watching us play some, you know, handicapped game of chess that we can't, you know, that it's not. It doesn't quite work like that in my experience. It's not that we are just following some timeline that. That we're supposed to learn all the secrets about, and that's the goal of life. Things come to light at the right time. And what they did say is you can really scare people in a way that can disempower them, and it can bring fear into a human. And actually, what's really important for us at this time is to not have too much fear, to be able to access as much of our openness as we can. Why do you think we're bombarded with fear stories from our media all the time? To kind of keep us in that disempowered, fierce victim state which is also successfully sewn into the system of the world. Because most people, you know, a, there's a hamster wheel, as you pointed out. There are some people who are living in a very privileged way on that hamster wheel, and there are some people in poverty, suffering, and devastation. So the system is very imbalanced.

[B]

So a few things to what you just said. I don't think the media is actively trying to take away power by. From you. By. I don't think there's a big conspiracy where the media is involved in trying. I think the media is. A lot of times I get asked, like, as a journalist, why aren't you reporting on good news instead of bad news? I think the role of the media and journalist is finding out what's broken and exposing that and showing that to the world in order to try to create a better world, essentially. I think that's what we do best and we should be doing so a lot of times, yes, we're reporting on stuff that, that is, comes out across as bad news, but because if it is good news, it's not news.

[A]

Right, but you're not in a, in a, in a corporate run media.

[B]

Absolutely. But if I'm doing my job the way that I see it and using my skills to the best of my ability, I am reporting on what is broken around us and, and what I can with my reporting hopefully fix and how is something in the world affecting people negatively and how can my reporting and exposing it and shining a light on this can lead to better, to people leading better lives.

[A]

So I should clarify what I thank you for what you said because I shouldn't say media is a general thing because you're part of the media, but you're the kind of media I would go to. I'm talking about the media that will, that will lie to us about things that are going on. The more corporate run narrative that we're often fed. Mm. We're not fed the truth. A lot of the time you're different to me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, you're right. I shouldn't have made the blanket statement. The media, I should.

[B]

But even the corporate media, I don't think all of corporate media.

[A]

No, I don't either. But I, I do think fear is something that is A, it sells and B, it's used. I, I, I think it's 100% very unconscious aspect of our media. So yeah, there are great journalists out there. Yeah.

[B]

But I understand resigning and I agree that fear.

[A]

But you are right.

[B]

Attention economy.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So I think fear and outrage and manipulation, you know, I mean, we, we hear about how things are manipulated to make people think a certain way, to get them to go a certain way, and then the story backtracks the guy who was saying, oh, we were told to use spin and dirty tricks. So it's not that I have a, I actually think when you read the news, it can be very telling. My what I look for is am I being told what to feel or what to think? Is the article emotionally slanted? So are they trying to make me think badly of you in the way that they've emotionally constructed the sentence about you, or are they just telling me who you are, what you do and letting me make my own mind up? Which is probably much more where you come from.

[B]

Journalists are not supposed to tell you what to think. They're supposed to tell you what to think about.

[A]

Right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, yes, there is a difference.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So thank you for holding the flag of truth. About my blanket statement. Yes.

[B]

And the other thing that I was going to comment mention with what you said was how it's in that sense that I think what we do is so different because you accept the message and you're more focused and less focused on asking where it's coming from or why. Right. And. And that's my sole job, is not just seeing the effects, but trying to understand why this happens.

[A]

Sure, yeah.

[B]

The. The understanding where it's coming from and who's doing it and why it's happening is to me so much more important.

[A]

And I. And thank God. Thank God you do that. But. But I. I guess the other piece that's just kind of come to me is the Z's said something about me to someone a few years ago when I was doing a book, I was doing a series called Conversation with the Z's with an author and a psychotherapist, Diana Edwards. And during one of those conversations, they said to her, and it was educational to me, it helped me understand something about myself that I didn't know. They said, Lee can't look at the dark for very long because it affects him in a way that takes him off his center. Now, you know, I've had my own dark experiences in life, like we all have, but I thought that was very interesting. And so, yeah, it's not that. I mean, I am privy to way more information than I probably would ever have asked the Zs myself because of what other people ask them. But I guess, yeah, I don't know, I feel quite connected to my job. So in the same way you're connected to your job, which is, you know, to be an ambassador of truth and helping people, you know, discover the truth. I guess I'm here to. Or I feel I'm here to help people discover more of themselves. So what I've noticed is that sometimes I've noticed a lot of people aren't living as themselves anymore because they're living in the horror headlines or the horror conspiracy theory. And I've seen people get lost. You know, they go too far that way. You know, we saw it during COVID I've seen it before. And the irony is, in conspiracy theories, there can be a lot of truth, but a lot of people will use that darker information to feel awful about the world or to become imbalanced. So I think one of the things the Z said to me in 2016 was they said you have to accept the darkness on this planet because there was a part of me that wasn't. And it was Sobering. And then I had a few experiences in the following years that really brought me front and center with things. But, but I also think, okay, well, I'm alive today. Doesn't mean I always have a great day. I'm like any human being. Things come up, lessons happen. But I try and stay focused on what I'm here for. I'm not personally passionate about discovering all about the dark forces on this planet. That's not my passion area.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But I know it exists and I'm, I'm aware of it through them. I, you know, I read occasional things or see, but it's. Yeah, I don't think I'm, I don't think I'm someone to lead the charge in that area. Which is why I'm also a little cautious sometimes about how their information might get interpreted or used or misinterpreted. Because it's not like I can sit here and go, yeah, I've done all the research and I can tell you this, this and this. So that, that, that for me can be a tricky area.

[B]

Do you. Are they communicating with other people as well? Yes, they are.

[A]

Oh, you mean other human beings?

[B]

Yes, because one of the things that

[A]

I've heard, that I know of. But here's what I will say. I mean, they, they told me years ago, no, we're your guides. But what I, what I do here all the time, I get messages and people go, I think I'm talking to disease, or I am talking to disease. And I don't dispute that because I think, you know, you. I think in a way, they have permeated the lives of lots of people. So those people are having a relationship with them. And I remember someone once years ago said to me that when you first become an artist, you emulate master painters or you emulate someone else in order to find your own style.

[B]

So true. I was like that as a journalist when I started off.

[A]

Yeah, right. And I think that's okay. So I, you know, I, I don't need to say, no, you're not channeling the Z. It's none of my business, really, if someone is out there channeling the Z's and that's their experience. Because also I believe everything can be channeled.

[B]

But you believe that they're talking to their own guides. Perhaps not disease, but I don't know.

[A]

I mean, maybe they are connecting with the, you know, the, the group. That, that to me would be very legitimate. That they were.

[B]

Yeah. Why would it be just you?

[A]

Right, exactly. Because we can all channel anything Right.

[B]

And one of the things that I've heard you say in another interview is that you talk about how they've. They're communicating through you, but that you are just a human being. Right. So it's being filtered with limitations.

[A]

So there are two factors. There. There's my own limitations, and also there's our limitations. Because one of the things. And they said this on an interview the other day, which I thought, yeah, that's so true. We have a certain level of understanding. And I imagine if the Z's were to be in this room right now, or one of them was to be in this room right now, they probably wouldn't look anything like we expect. They would not communicate in this language. You know, it's. I'm a translation system. Like, it's not like they sound. Like they sound through me. How they sound through me is what happens when I merge with them to kind of bring it through. So I think that's where I'm not too. I think in a way that's where I'm not too attached because I'm like, well, this is our. The best interpretation of this experience that I'm capable of giving. It has its limits. It has its expansive parts. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Do you believe in reincarnation, by the way?

[A]

I do believe in reincarnation. I do, I do. But I'm loose with it. I. There was a time in my spiritual development where I felt it really strongly. They've also told me, this is my last life. So that could be why I. My last life on Earth. That could be why I am loose around it. But, like, I'm willing to believe that you can. I used to believe that a past life memory was that you were that person. I now believe you can tap into someone. I also believe that, you know, I'm here with guides. And so if someone in the future was like, oh, well, I. I'm the reincarnation of Lee. Well, I'm not just one thing. I'm like, this world of multidimensionality, like we all are. So I have a slightly different view of reincarnation now than I did 20 years ago when it was more fixed and more specific.

[B]

And what do you hope then? If this is in fact your last life, what do you hope is your lasting impact with the work that you do?

[A]

What do I hope is my lasting impact? Oh, that's a very lofty question.

[B]

Why do you think you're here and why do you think you have not power?

[A]

I hope I've helped in some way. That's what I hope. And I. I'll never know that, but I hope. I hope that I've done some things, not just in my work, but in my personal life. I hope I've helped people to find more of themselves or heal and recover. And I look at myself and I think, God, you know, I've just turned 50 and I am grateful to be alive because I know lots of people who haven't made it to this age. And I also am grateful for transformation because I think, God, the things I didn't know in my 20s and the things I was struggling with or suffering with. And so I'm grateful for the transformation journey I've gone on. And I hope I continue to get better and become a better person. Like a person who can hold more capacity for myself and for others. Because I think we learn through osmosis. I think we learn through modeling. You know, when someone walks into a room and they have a great aura or they're very kind and giving, they change the room. So I hope that, you know, anything I've done has helped support people, open people, educate people to more of themselves so they can live a better life. Because that's what I'm grateful for. The people who've done that for me or do that for me.

[B]

Right. Can I ask you a question? And this is going to sound perhaps like I'm pushing back, but I do think this is. I'm just thinking about the questions also that people will have, and I think one of the sort of criticisms that people have about things that they don't believe. For people who don't believe that you're actually saying the truth, they will say that the reason you're saying all of this is because you're probably making a lot of money.

[A]

Right.

[B]

With all these followers. And it's another scam. Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Are you making a lot of money?

[A]

Yes. Compared to the beginning? Yeah. I mean, I was. I was, you know, 10 pounds a reading or 15. Yeah. So no, it's given me a good living. Absolutely.

[B]

And so what do you say to people that would say you're just doing this? You're. This is all BS and it's a scam, and you're just doing this because you're making. You want to make money.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I. I don't know.

[B]

I think my Conning people.

[A]

Yeah. My argument is that there are easier ways to make money and more money if you have a brain. And I don't mean that to be disrespectful, because I also know people who, you know, have landed money. But I think if money had been my objective, I would have generated it far earlier. You know, in a way, it's been the last five or six years that the growth of the work has enabled me to grow a team and expand everything that we're doing. And that it's been the last five or six years that, you know, I could afford to have a deposit to buy a house for the first time instead of rent. And I own a car now. You know, I'm like, oh, that's, you know, I know that sounds to me those are big things and, or to be able to help family members or. Yeah, so I get the criticism, but for me, this has been 22 years and I never thought it wasn't like 22 years ago. I thought, whoa, you know, in 20 years there's going to be millions of people tuning in on this and this is what it's going to look like. I couldn't have foreseen that. I find it interesting that we're not as critical of other people who are making lots of money. You know, I think that's always the interesting thing. There are people out there making a lot of money through abusing people or through using people or through, you know, things that are harming. Would people have been okay if I'd have been a very successful singer songwriter and made a lot of money that way? That wouldn't have been such a criticism.

[B]

Because what you're getting back is the music, right? Which in this case, people aren't sure if they're getting back something real or not. I think that's the difference, right?

[A]

What do you mean?

[B]

If you're following or paying for somebody's music, you're getting back the experience of listening to their music. But if you're paying for your subscription service or following you and somehow.

[A]

Oh, I see. Oh, this is a really good point. What I always find really interesting is when those people criticize people like me, they're also criticizing the audience. You're not criticizing just me when you do that, you're criticizing anyone else who's getting something from it, which I find short sighted. I'm like, you know, people, people don't stay with something unless it's giving them something. We don't go to, you know, you don't go to Amazon or an online website and do a favor to products. You know, you don't go, oh, I'm just going to. What am I going to charitably buy this week that I don't really believe in? You know, you. We tend to invest money in things that we value or things that give us value or things that we care about. Now. Sure. There are people out there who've got, you know, maybe financial sabotage patterns or whatever.

[B]

Yeah. It's interesting. I do think that you actually, in America in general, we tend to admire the con artists more than the victim. Right. And in scam, the scamming industry, this is a hundred percent true, where I would come back with these stories about scams and people would always say, how stupid can these people be? That they believed it. Right. And the criticism was always focused at them and geared towards them instead of the actual scammer and the person who is conning people. So I do think you're right in that, but I think I was just making a differentiation between why we. Why aren't I am asking questions about musicians making money versus you making money?

[A]

Yeah. And I also think it's like the question about money because I've seen this a lot. People will criticize you about money. But actually, isn't it interesting? That's not a very humanitarian way of looking at it. Because if I'm scamming people and your biggest issue is that I might be making money, aren't you more concerned about the people I might be harming if I'm willingly So I don't know. I feel like that's, you know, it's very in. It's so woven into our culture that that whole. It's rarely a considered argument.

[B]

Yeah. I guess I wouldn't be asking you the question about money. And I don't think anyone would. If we found out that you were also sex trafficking people or doing other horrific things. I'd be asking you about that probably before I'd ask you about.

[A]

Yeah, well, yeah.

[B]

So I was going to ask you if you could channel the.

[A]

The. Absolutely. I'll just take a second. Good. A pleasure to be with you. Being of light. We say that to you not just to be flattering to you. You are a being of light on this planet. You are here to help bring light to the dark, but also to illuminate. And that is the shift that you are now in. In your own work and path. Before, you wanted to shine light in the dark places, to bring illumination so that others would see where the dark existed. And now you are going the other way. You are being an emissary of light. And this does not make you more special than other beings of light on the planet. We need to say that not because we think you are confused about this, but because there can be a false perception of what light is. You were all told you were separate from light, that you were separate from the God force or source energy. And this is not true. You are part of it. You are one with it. So the message that Lee was giving you earlier relates to your shift in the year to come. You will go through an enormous shift in your work and your life, but it will be absolutely in parallel with the enormous shift the world is going through. You are ready to meet the rising tide. And the rising tide will be supported by the many people who will come along for the ride with you. And we do not just mean those who will gather around you specifically. We mean the rising tide that many of you are now feeling inside yourselves. It is time for light to rise on this planet. It is necessary. We know many of you are tired of the dark, the old story, the combative energy on this planet that keeps you perpetually in war cycles. But we have said this over the years, those war cycles are not created by you, the people, even though you do relay the energy of war because it is fed to you through this war system that you have been born into. So you have small aspects of war inside yourself, but you are not the ones pushing the buttons and sending the people off to war against each other. So it is a time where that old war template is beginning to rear its head again. And there are many life cycles it has been through. But this is a very different time on Earth where more and more of you will rise in light. It does not mean everyone will agree. It does not mean everyone will look like what we would call a light worker. But there are more of you who are actively bringing this change to the planet. And you are one of them. So a pleasure to be with you and we will attend to any questions you wish to ask.

[B]

Oh, it's my turn to ask questions. Well, thank you for being here with me. I am interested in knowing what is your biggest message for the world. What do you think the world doesn't know that we should know about you?

[A]

It is not what you do not know about us. It is what you have forgotten about yourselves. We are not far from you. That is the most important message. It is why too much distancing around this kind of experience where one of you on the planet will speak to what you might call the other side. We would say other dimensions of existence, ones that you cannot see with the human eye or perceive with the typical human senses. This is normal. Meaning you are connected to this. And yes, at the moment, there is a distancing. Perhaps there is a distancing from the human being right now doing the talking. There is a distancing from us, a suspicion as to who or what we are. But what we can tell you is you forgot your origins. You are connected to what some would call all that is. Others would call it the God Force or God Source. There are different names for it. But what we begin to help you remember is your connection to this. And the reason that is important is as more of your intuitive and wisdom talents are able to be reactivated. And when we say wisdom, we mean the part of all of you that has access to divine knowledge. As that starts to reactivate in you, you become more powerful on Earth. Not in a way that is the kind of power that the ego would like, but instead more powerful in creating more conscious ways on Earth, ways that respond more to collective consciousness rather than individual consciousness. You have been living in very individualized system, a system that asks you to fight for yourself, your family. There have always been those among you that have fought for all. And that is what we will say. The consciousness that is now beginning to hit this planet, which is happening naturally and energetically to some and others, it will impact them through challenging events or the removal of certain things they thought were part of their life that kept them safe. You are all beginning to remember each other and remember the energy that moves through you is also deeply connected to the energy of the other in front of you. You may think you are having a conversation with their mind and their words, but you're actually having a conversation with their energy field that is translated through their mind and their words. Nothing wrong with that. And we have no problem with people who do not believe this or experience this. We are simply telling you what the purpose of communication with beings from our realm is here for.

[B]

Can I ask you one more question? How do I know? As a journalist, this is a question that obviously I'm obsessed with. But how do I know you're real?

[A]

You do not.

[B]

And is there anything you can give me more than that?

[A]

We do not mean to be vague. What we mean here is, how do you know you are real? How do you know the world that you are existing in is real? Because you believe it is so. You see, so much of your identity and the way you navigate the world is constructed upon beliefs you agree to or disagree to. So you do not need to believe we are real. In fact, we would say that is not the point of us. You need to see if what comes from or through us or LI is of use to you.

[B]

And what is your goal?

[A]

Our goal is not goal oriented. Our goal is our existence. We are here just as you are and it is our we will say path to be here to hopefully usher in a brighter, higher timeline on Earth. That does depend on what people choose. And it is not for us to control or interfere with that.

[B]

What advice do you have for humanity for us to become better versions of ourselves?

[A]

Well, all of you need to remember your hearts. You have wisdom in your heart that is very strong. That may sound obtuse, but what is actually true is the more you start to connect with your inner centers, not the way you navigate the outer world and release from inside your own bodies any of the wounding that you have inherited from being on this earth as a human. You start to connect with the wider radius of your heart. It is the same level of love you might feel if you become a parent or you fall in love with a person who is a friend or a romantic partner. You start to grow beyond the self and connect with others. That is the goal for all of you here. The rest will take care of itself. So it's different for some. They may have a very specific path or a specific mission. But on a level of personal, we will say happiness or connectedness to life and to your own soul. Learn to connect with your heart.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[A]

Good. A pleasure to be with you in peace and in love. That was very brief.

[B]

Thank you. I didn't want to keep you for so long because I know it's been long.

[A]

No problem. No problem.

[B]

Thank you, Lee.

[A]

Thank you, Lee.

[B]

It's been a fascinating conversation. Thank you so much for coming on the Hidden Third. I hope it was interesting for you.

[A]

It was to be grilled. It was a typical Thursday afternoon for me. Thank you so much.

[B]

Thank you so much,

[A]

Sam.