Meagan Elizabeth: Raised in a Cult Hiding 900 Abusers

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Hidden Third Episode Title: Meagan Elizabeth: Raised in a Cult Hiding 900 Abusers
Host: Mariana van Zeller
Guest: Meagan Elizabeth
Date: May 6, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this powerful and disturbing episode, award-winning journalist Mariana van Zeller interviews Meagan Elizabeth, a survivor of the secretive "Two by Twos" religious group, sometimes called "The Truth." The conversation traces Meagan's upbringing in this high-control sect, the trauma and abuses that permeated the community—including coverups of widespread sexual abuse by leadership—and Meagan’s journey to healing, advocacy, and public exposure of the cult's crimes. This episode is an intimate, informative look at the mechanics of cult life, its impact on individuals, and the brave efforts to bring such abuses to light.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to "The Two by Twos" (00:07–04:55)

• Meagan grew up 4th-generation in a secretive cult known to insiders as “the Truth” and outsiders as “Two by Twos.”
• No official name, no buildings, no written doctrine—the group operates globally, meeting in private homes.
• Meagan: “It was so odd because we were required to live basically like Amish people, but live in the secular world... [The founder] never gave it a name because it started from Jesus according to him.” (03:01)
• The group claims direct lineage to Jesus’s teachings, justifying strict isolationism and exceptionalism.

2. Life Inside: Rules, Culture, and Isolation (04:55–13:24)

• Members called themselves "Friends"; to outsiders, they are invisible.
• Secrecy and the sense of community can feel positive but also facilitate insularity.
• Strict dress code for women: long skirts, no jewelry, long hair worn up, and no makeup.
• Meagan describes an upbringing akin to “Amish in the city,” totally cut off from pop culture: “I would go to secular school with no knowledge of what Saturday Night Live was or what John Stamos was...” (06:41)
• School life was isolating and traumatic, with Meagan bullied for her differences.

3. Family Dynamics and Exposure to the Outside (13:24–23:01)

• Meagan’s parents, while kind and educated (father: OB/GYN; mother: nurse), were deeply indoctrinated and strict.
• Interfamily love and support complicated by their complete devotion to the cult’s ideology.
• The cult’s hierarchy: overseers (all men), “workers” (celibate missionaries living in homes, swapped yearly and frequently moved).
• Meagan: “It’s much like capitalism… the people who… are doing the dirty work rise the ranks and it’s always a man and they are… completely corrupt.” (21:38)
• The structure makes the group ripe for abuse: transient, unaccountable “workers” in close contact with children.

4. Psychological Impact and Emerging Doubts (23:01–33:16)

• From childhood, Meagan suffered deep existential terror: “Most people are going to hell. Even if you're a very devout follower... it’s just fear.” (28:56)
• Extreme religious anxiety sparked Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD): “If I can reach the store before it closes, I won't go to hell…” (29:46)
• Realization of cognitive dissonance grew; felt that her own intellect and skepticism put her in conflict with her family's values.

5. Adolescence, Mental Health, and the Road Out (33:16–44:10)

• Disordered eating started after a formative trip to Germany, catalyzed by depression and sudden social acceptance at school after weight loss.
• Eating disorders became both a coping mechanism and a metaphor for exerting control in an uncontrollable environment:
  “It becomes almost a cult voice in your head. You have your own cult leader now who's like... It's in your voice, but it's trying to kill you...” (38:05)
• Eventually brought to rehab in Malibu, which became the turning point for understanding her trauma and beginning to heal, simultaneously confronting family and cult issues.

6. Breaking the Silence: Realization and Outspokenness (44:10–51:46)

• Meagan struggled with guilt and loyalty:
  “I'm able to speak about this because they gave me the opportunity to, but by doing it, I’m letting them down and humiliating them.” (44:11)
• Despite widespread knowledge, the group’s culture is intensely silent about both the cult and abuse (e.g., nobody in her family will mention her podcast).
• Prior attempts to expose the cult (books/message boards) had made little impact due to secrecy and fear:
  “You are so indoctrinated to be fearful. There's no guardrails against how abusive they can be to you, because they're the only right way to get to heaven. So you are completely obliged to silence.” (67:36)

7. The Dark Underbelly: Systemic Sexual Abuse and Cover-Up (51:46–72:15)

• A whistleblower’s letter in 2023 revealed one of the group’s overseers as a serial child abuser; his computer was wiped before police could investigate.
• Social media support groups exploded with testimonies; over 900 alleged perpetrators have now been credibly named.
• Meagan: “There are now 900 perpetrators named with credible allegations.” (59:53)
• Structure enabled abusers: unlimited access to children, cult-mandated forgiveness, and strong disincentives to report.
• Meagan’s own family was not immune (her sister was abused by a “worker”).
• Many perpetrators simply reassigned or sent abroad; police intervention is extremely rare and met with internal obstacles.

8. FBI Involvement and Continuing Secrecy (68:38–72:17)

• FBI has launched an investigation, but Meagan is skeptical of meaningful accountability:
  “The whole system is to protect predators. And this system just happens to be the perfect system.” (68:51)
• Meagan notified her parents of the scope of abuse and the FBI investigation; their response was limited:
  “They thanked me, they looked into it… but they're not out of it.” (70:44)
• The community remains largely unchanged, with her father still an elder.

9. Advocacy, Safety, and Ongoing Work (72:17–End)

• Both host and guest discuss the risks involved in exposing powerful organizations.
• Meagan has taken personal safety precautions:
  “I live in a home that has lots of security. And I have mace and a little gun that shoots gas pellets. And I have a machete.” (73:48)
• She balances telling the truth, preventing further abuse, and loyalty to family.
• Efforts to expose the cult receive more attention (documentaries, podcasts), but breaking through the wall of silence is slow and trauma-laden.
• Meagan is also developing multiple media projects addressing her cult experience and abuse.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the psychological grip of the group:
  “You are so brainwashed to believe if you speak out about it publicly, you will be punished. You are so indoctrinated to be fearful... so you are completely obliged to silence.” (00:07, 67:36, repeated for emphasis)

• On secrecy and political structure:
  “No one in the cult, to my knowledge, ever had a problem with what my father was doing, which doesn’t really make a ton of sense to me… maybe the prestige of it lends a little bit of credibility.” (13:38)

• On systemic abuse:
  “That’s pretty much a pedophile’s vision board. Correct. Moving from family to family’s home with kids that are trusted to think you are the closest link to God.” (16:48)

• On enduring struggle with trauma:
  “When you are abusing someone’s eternal soul and telling them…they’re gonna potentially burn for eternity. That’s crazy. And it gives you PTSD.” (82:13)

• On exposing the cult:
  “I always say, like, I’m not suicidal.” (73:29)

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Important Timestamps by Segment

• 00:07–04:55: Meagan describes the cult and its origins.
• 06:41–08:45: Childhood isolation at school without pop culture references.
• 16:48–18:36: The cult’s leadership pipeline and vulnerability to abuse.
• 29:46–32:32: Impact of doomsday thinking on mental health.
• 38:05–43:33: Eating disorders as expressions of control and trauma.
• 44:10–51:46: Tension between loyalty, silence, and public advocacy.
• 59:53–64:00: The revelation of systemic sexual abuse (900+ predators named).
• 68:51–70:44: FBI investigation and family’s muted acknowledgment.
• 73:48: Meagan on personal security measures.
• 80:04–83:26: Definition of cults and rates of PTSD among cult survivors.

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Episode Tone & Takeaways

From the harrowing stories of abuse to the loving but conflicted portrayal of family loyalty, this episode walks a delicate line between hope, horror, and healing. Meagan Elizabeth’s vulnerability and sharp self-awareness offer listeners both an immersive first-person account of cult survival and a broader look at the social structures that allow such groups to persist in secrecy.

Above all, the conversation reveals the lasting scars of secrecy and high-control religion, and the extraordinary courage required to bring abuse to light—even when the perpetrators and enablers are one’s own community and family.

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For further information:

• Meagan Elizabeth’s podcast: Trust Me
• Book mentioned: Send Bravely by Maggie Rowe

Content Note: This episode contains detailed discussion of child sexual abuse, trauma, and religious cults.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Interviewer]

Today's episode is presented by our friends at Huell. Use Code Mariana for our exclusive [e-mail]

[Megan Elizabeth]

it's probably one of the scariest groups I've ever dealt with in my life. You are so brainwashed to believe if you speak out about it publicly, you will be punished. You are so indoctrinated to be fearful. There's no guardrails against how abusive they can be to you, because they're the only right way to get to heaven. So you are completely obliged to silence.

[Interviewer]

Thank you for coming. I'm so happy you're here. Megan grew up in a church with no name. No building, no leaders, no doctrine written down anywhere. Just a group of people who met in each other's homes and. And believe they were the only ones on earth going to heaven. From the outside, it looked like a great, devout life. From the inside, it was something else entirely. The group is known as the Two by Twos. Cult members just call it the Truth. And for decades, it operated in near total secrecy until survivors started talking and the FBI started listening. So, Megan Elizabeth, welcome to the Hidden Third.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Interviewer]

We got connected because we have a friend in common.

[Megan Elizabeth]

We do.

[Interviewer]

But also because you have an amazing podcast that I have now been listening to, and it's all about cults.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It is, yes.

[Interviewer]

You started it, I imagine, because of your own experience in your own life.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes, I did. It was such a. Interesting beginning. So I was out to eat with a friend, and he got a text from somebody that said, do you know anybody that was raised in a cult? And as a psychologist? And at the time I was getting my hours in psychology, I'd gotten my master's degree. And he was like, yeah, I'm sitting with her right now. So it was like a very. It was very meant to be beginning. And my co host was also in a cult for a period of time, so I think we're able to really look at the subject with a. An eye that might not be as, like, whoa, how weird. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So the podcast, by the way, is called Trust Me.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Called Trust Me. Yes. Yes.

[Interviewer]

So tell me about your life. Like, tell me about the beginning of your life.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Sure. Fourth generation on both sides of my family in this group, so I'm born into it to parents that are 100% and, like, my parents are in it. And it was very confusing. I'm a little neurodivergent. Like, was diagnosed pretty young with that, so the Bible and, like, in its entirety. I was like, this is weird. You know, and my parents would be like, you can't say that. So I even just any religion I think I would have had a few questions about. But this religion in particular was just so. It was so odd because we were required to live basically like Amish people, but live in the secular world. So it was started by a man who was basically an amanic episode in the 1800s. He got really focused on a verse Matthew that was like send them out two by twos. And he was like, I'm going to send people out to live in people's homes with no possessions. And we did an episode on that and trust me, because a lot of. I think like a third of cult leaders are in a manic episode and actually believe what they're saying. And then the other two thirds are just grifters. But he basically started this thing and it caught on and never gave it a name, right? Never gave it a name because it started from Jesus according to him. So he got erased from the history. History completely. His name was William Irvine and I never heard the name William Irvine because he was erased and it just became Matthew 5. Started this religion. Jesus sent his disciples out two by two. This is a direct descendant of that. There was never a break in the lineage. And we're the only one true way connected to Jesus. And he didn't meet in church buildings. We don't meet in church buildings. And there's no other correct way to worship.

[Interviewer]

Right. So there's no Bible, there's no leaders, there's no actual building.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I wish there was no Bible.

[Interviewer]

Oh, but there is.

[Megan Elizabeth]

There was a lot of Bible like a written. Yeah, the Bible, the, the Old, the King James version of the Bible. So a lot of King James, Old Testament, New Testament, all of it and lots of required reading of it.

[Interviewer]

But you guys. So if you don't have a name to refer to it, you would also sometimes. What would you call it?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Like the Truth. The way.

[Interviewer]

The truth.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay, you guys. So the Truth, the way the members are called the Friends. So we're meeting with the Friends. To go to a meeting is like a common sentence one would say to, to describe going to church with other members. And it's worldwide, it's in 30 countries.

[Interviewer]

That shocks me too because as somebody who knows nothing about this group until I started looking into your. Your story to find out that it's actually a global huge no name group is crazy.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And there's a secret society kind of element of it because you can go to any country. I remember going to Germany and Middle school. And, you know, we meet in people's homes and you're given an address of a home in a normal neighborhood and you just show up and you're treated like you're part of the family.

[Interviewer]

I guess that's kind of cool.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It was kind of cool if there were. If there wasn't this dark underbelly to it, which we'll get to, which we certainly will. But the good side is that there is many good people in it and there is this community built into it that you have people who really care about you and you can go anywhere in the world and you are their brother, you are their sister. And it's very compelling for people. And I understand why.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So you went to Germany when you were how old?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I was probably in eighth grade.

[Interviewer]

I want to get there also. But you grew up. You were born and raised in Wichita.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I watched. Which is.

[Interviewer]

I've been dying to say that word forever.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wichita.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. You were born and raised in Wichita. What was that, like? What was your, like, childhood?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, it was another. It was like another. Another plot twist for me was that you're raised, like I said, you are raised kind of Amish. We didn't have technology in the way that other people did, so there wasn't a television there. What I didn't have, like a computer or access to the Internet or any of any of those things. So I would go to a secular school with no knowledge of what Saturday Night Live was or what John Stamos was. You know what I mean? Just like normal things. John Stamos. I don't know why he comes to mind, but I remember. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Can I just say that I absolutely relate to that because I grew up in Portugal, which is not a cult, but there's so much of growing up in America that I've missed that nowadays. My friends, because I've lived here for so long, talk to me about, like, shows from their childhood and names that I'm supposed to know who they're talking about. I was like, no, thank you.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's complete same, same wavelength. And hopefully in adulthood, your friends are like, oh, my gosh, I'll show you the movie. When you're in elementary school, they say you're a weirdo, freak, loser. And like I. And. And I'm dressed like kind of Amish. So it was pretty. It was pretty traumatizing.

[Interviewer]

And you can never watch it because that's not allowed.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And that's not. And. And I would go to neighbors houses and, you know, maybe Full House would be on or something. And I'd be like, let's watch that. People didn't want to have me over because I would just sit in front of their TV like this, just like, like, you know, completely transfixed.

[Interviewer]

Also can relate to that.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I remember.

[Interviewer]

So I grew up in Portugal and we had two TV channels. That was it. And then the first time, yes, there were two. And we didn't have the third until I was like, I don't know, like 16 or something. But I remember coming. I'm older than you, and I remember coming to the United States as a. As a 13 or 14 year old. I came to visit a friend and I'm in D.C. at his home. And I turn on the television and it's cable. We didn't have cable in Portugal at the time.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh boy.

[Interviewer]

And I could not believe it. And he was like working as a lifeguard. I was 14 and he was 16. We were just friends. He would. We have childhood friends. And he would go and have his job. He was doing lifeguarding that summer. And I spent the whole week just wanting to be in front of the tv, just zapping through the channels. Cause I could not believe the variety of programming. I was upset. And his mother was constantly telling me, I cannot believe you travel this far and you're not exploring this beautiful city. I was like, dude, you do not understand.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And that's the. One of the things that would happen when our, like people in this group would go on vacations is you would just end up in the hotel room the whole time watching tv because like, nobody had one. So you just like the whole family would be like watching tv. And the whole time your dad would be like, we're not supposed to be doing this. We're going to stop doing this soon.

[Interviewer]

We're.

[Megan Elizabeth]

We're going to turn this off soon. And we'd all be like, yeah, yeah, of course. Like, let's not do it anymore. And then do it anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh. So like I was sent to normal school. And it was. It was a particularly. It was a school that was traumatizing for everyone, not just me. It was a private school. It was a very weird school. It. There was a lot of very wealthy families in it to the point that there was like a billionaire family and a quite evil billionaire family. Two people. I have no.

[Interviewer]

I think.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes. I have no idea.

[Interviewer]

From Wichita.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes. And are you not.

[Interviewer]

Do you not say who they are? I mean, it's the cohort.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. And I just remember we always would get bomb threats and that Was a very normal part of my life. Like, I thought every school, every week got a bomb threat and you had to walk across the street to a bank that had, like, a special bomb shelter for us. And we'd all sit there and be like, yeah, we're missing a little bit of math. And then, you know, go back, But. And the only reason I got sent there was because my dad's partner, he was a doctor, sent his son there, and he was like, your daughter simply must go. So it wasn't like I. It was like being an Amish person around very elite people. And it was just funny. It was just. I'm. Right. I'm trying to write a TV show about it right now. Kind of Dairy girls esque. Like, I don't know. It was just funny. Yeah. I mean, so good, because, like, at the end of the day, they also believed the world was ending in, like, a kind of bunker e way. You know what I mean? It was just, like, from both sides. I was, like, so confused. Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Well, were you? Were you. What was the dress code?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Like, what the dress code at school was like, or.

[Interviewer]

No.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. For the cult.

[Megan Elizabeth]

The.

[Interviewer]

The.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, yes. The dress code for the culture is long skirts for women. Nothing to be too revealing, too tight. As you can see now, I've completely. I saw you. I saw you do a little glance, and they're like, wow, I've rebelled completely. Long hair, wear it up. You know, women should have hair to cover their hat. Their heads is like a verse in the Bible that they took to mean, put your hair up. A lot of Mennonites or Amish believe that means you should wear a covering. This just means your hair needs to be in what I consider a very ugly bun with, like a poof, you know, and so no jewelry whatsoever. No ear piercings. The amount I wanted my ears pierced was so crazy. I would just like, daydream about getting my ears pierced. And whenever one of my friends would be like, I'm getting my ears pierced, I'd be like, that's tough.

[Interviewer]

When did you get your ears?

[Megan Elizabeth]

The, like, day I moved to college, I went to Claire's with my friend and was like, I got my ears pierced. And I was allergic to them and had to take them out immediately. Yeah, Very cruel joke. So, yeah, the dress code was look dowdy, no makeup, and don't tempt any men and look pretty invisible.

[Interviewer]

And you look different than all the other girls at your school, I guess.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. And that's kind of why I jumped into the dress code. At school because it wasn't like the dress code at school was. No, there wasn't uniforms and it was. You were required to dress rather modestly. So I, I did stick out, but it wasn't like, you know, you watch the movie Clueless and people were dressed in, you know, skater outfits and like piercings and like, we weren't allowed to have any of that stuff. So I didn't, I stood out. But it wasn't the craziest thing in the world, I guess.

[Interviewer]

And you have brothers and sisters?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I have a 10 year gap between my sister and myself. I'm 10 years older, so. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And okay, so you were the first daughter from your parents and what were they like when you were younger?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I love them so much. I'm still so obsessed with them. They're just the best. But they are in a cult and they are third generation brainwashed and they were strict, but they were also very kind and very liberal in a way that a lot of people. I mean, my parents never were racist or homophobic or my dad does OBGYN work and is very pro birth control. And you know, a lot of things that are against the cult conservative America, I would say. But, but no one in the cult to my knowledge, ever had a problem with what my father was doing, which doesn't really make a ton of sense to me. I think maybe the prestige of it, like lends a little bit of. Why am I blinking on the word credibility. Credibility. Thank you. To, to what? Like this man is in it. So it's. I, I think that's what it is. Maybe they have secret meetings where they hate him and, and want him out, but they, he seemed to be very well admired from my experience.

[Interviewer]

So another thing about the church is that they don't have a. There's no. Explain the whole hierarchy and, or the lack of hierarchy and how who actually makes decisions, how that all works. Because it's very different from any other.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Religion out there.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's overseers. Those are the people at the top. Then there's male workers.

[Interviewer]

How many overseers are there worldwide?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I'm going to say God. I'm gonna say 60.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And I may be way off.

[Interviewer]

And they're all men.

[Megan Elizabeth]

All men.

[Interviewer]

And they are. And there's. And, and there's not one that's more important than the others. It's not.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, there certainly is. There certainly is. So, so, so it's the overseers, all men. The brother workers. Sister. And I'll explain to you what a worker is very quickly. They are people who do the Matthew verse where they go out two by two. They say, I'm not having a family, I'm not having a home, I'm not having children, I'm celibate, I'm not having sex. I am giving my life to this ministry where I will live in the homes of the congregants and I will be put in a different field every year with a different, same sub sex companion. And I will do missions and preach the gospel and try to convert people. Nobody's ever converted. P.S. not really. And the problem with that is that this is now what, 100 and something years old. So it's been. I mean that's pretty much a pedophile's vision board. Correct. Moving from family to family's home with kids that are trusted to think that you are the closest link to God. So I think many people have entered it with the best of intentions. I think it's very. When you grow up in it, it's the highest calling. And I think people with. I don't want to diagnose them, but with OCD end up in the work is what it's called a lot. And people who have very bad intentions end up in the work a lot

[Interviewer]

because they can go into essentially strangers homes and spend weeks there alone sometimes with children.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

And who knows what can happen. We kind of know what happens, which we will get to later. But they are. It's volunteer. It's not. They're not. It's not mandatory. Right. They don't pick, they're. They can. You can volunteer to be a worker.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Correct. And you are. That is your parents highest hope for you.

[Interviewer]

Was. Do you think that was your parents highest hope for you?

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's so funny because I. So I'm going to the school that's very hard. And the point of the school is to obviously be a doctor or scientist or whatever. And I'm not good at math, I'm not good at science. And I'm like struggling so hard. And I remember in like my freshman year my parents saying something like our highest hope for you is to be a worker. And I was like, then am I allowed to swear on this podcast? Of course. Then why the. Have I been learning chemistry and calculus for the last like, why the hell have I been doing this shit if all you want me to do is like. And they don't even require and in fact discourage the workers from. You don't go to theology school. You don't know much about the Bible. You're Just like a person who is like, I'll do it. And so, yes, it's. It's a volunteer.

[Interviewer]

What do they say?

[Megan Elizabeth]

What do you mean?

[Interviewer]

What did your parents say? And you're like, why am I. Why am I sending me. I don't.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I'm not sure if I said that out louder in my head, but in

[Interviewer]

my mind you absolutely did.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I think I was just like, like what? And also like the fact that they hadn't said it till then makes me think that that's not actually what they wanted for me. You know, I think that that's kind of the party line. And I always think about things like, my name is Megan. My name isn't Deborah Rebecca. It's not a biblical name. Like, somewhere in my mom's subconscious mind, she wanted a Megan, like a per. It was a very popular girl name at the time. It was a normal girl name. And, and I think it's very unconscious, but I think she wanted a normal life for me. You know, she would not be consciously aware of that fact. But, but I, I did notice that it was my freshman year when I heard that that was their ultimate dream for me. And I was like, what the hell? You know, and, and it was very obvious I was not going to be doing that.

[Interviewer]

So.

[Megan Elizabeth]

But. But that is the, the quote, unquote, ultimate dream for, for your children and there's become workers. Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And why. Why two by two? Why do they go two by two? Because that's very Mormon.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Because in Matthew, I want to say 10, it says, I send my disciples out two by two.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. And.

[Interviewer]

And they switch. Right. They're. They're. They spend one year together, but after. Right. Am I right? Yes. After a year, they switch. Not only the. You guys call. The cult calls it the fields of the regions. Right. Which can be as big as two cities. Right?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

And then you switch region or fields and you also switch your partner.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

But it's always man with men and women that you don't do couples. And they're celibate, obviously, as you said. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And they have no say over it. You know, like you could be with the great companion that you know, that you get along with and who isn't nefarious and you're really preaching the gospel and you're in a city that you like and then they're like, actually you're with this abusive companion next year and really weird town. And, and you have absolutely no say in it. You don't know what home you're going to stay in that night. You don't know what bed you're going to have. And it's. It's abusive. Yeah, it's abusive.

[Interviewer]

And some do they sometimes also. Are they also sent abroad?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes. Yes.

[Interviewer]

So they might be sent to Germany or wherever they've never lived in with somebody they never, they don't know.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Sleeping in homes that they don't know, learning different languages.

[Interviewer]

Can you stop being a worker if you wanted to?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes, you can. And people do, but it's, it's very frowned upon. People are disappointed in you, you know. Yeah, it is.

[Interviewer]

And if you're a worker, is that if you want to be an overseer, you have to first be a worker?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes, correct. You have to be a very corrupt worker. It's. It's much like capitalism, you know, the people who, who are doing the dirty work rise the ranks and it's always a man and they are. I can't think of a single one that's not completely corrupt.

[Interviewer]

Did you ever, ever think that maybe this was the route for you, that you wanted to be a sister worker?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, my God. I had a irrational fear that someday I would wake up and be like, I want to be a sister worker. So that was like, I have ocd. So that was a very. Like. Like, I was scared I would think that. But no, no, my God, no. No. I couldn't be less if I don't sleep in my bed every night with my exact air conditioning and my exact sound machine. Like, I don't know how these people go to different homes every, every day that's. Or every week or whatever. Like, it's just so dysregulating. And the people who are in it for the right reasons, you know, quote unquote, the right reasons to themselves, feeling that they're called by God to do this and don't have ill intent. It's just they, they get sick often, they're very mentally ill often, and they have no resources.

[Interviewer]

Right?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And then are they allowed to be in touch with their own families?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes, usually. A lot of the workers who've left and who are now in, like our X group say, I wasn't encouraged to speak to them very regularly because, you know, I might miss them, I might want to go back home. But you're not forbidden from it. But you're usually not put in the same field as your family or encouraged to really spend a lot of time with them.

[Interviewer]

So when did you start. So you, you went to that high school? It was a high school.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I went to elementary school.

[Interviewer]

Elementary school, all the private school. And you knew right away that you would drift different from the other kids.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes. Yes. Yeah. I was like, whoa. And, you know, it was the way I looked, the way that I thought, the way that I would tell every teacher with earrings that they were going to hell and that they needed to remove them.

[Interviewer]

Wow. Really? You would say that?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, yeah. I was worried. I was. I wanted them. I was very like, the people who really grew up believing in the Bible. It's a very, like, Game of Thrones experience where it's like you're living in a completely different reality than everybody else. They're like, I want to learn to write cursive. And I'm like, I have to save everybody in this room, soul, before Jesus comes back. Which could be this afternoon. P.S. so, like, I was stressed out.

[Interviewer]

That is another thing of it. Right. Is that there's no. You don't know when Jesus might show up.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And it's today, probably. It's a doomsday cult through and through. It is like the world is ending very soon, probably today. And you gotta be right with God. So just basically be in a free state. Don't think, don't move, don't do anything. And when he comes back, we'll just zap up into the air. It's a death cult.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And only you guys would be zapped up. Only people were part of the cult.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

And do you have to be in. Is it. There's a baptism, I guess.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. You have to choose to be baptized. They don't believe in baptizing children because you didn't choose that. So why would that be? Why would God think that that was chill. He wouldn't, according to them. So you have to choose to do it when you're usually 12 or older. I never did it.

[Interviewer]

Oh, you did.

[Megan Elizabeth]

But my sister did. And so we, like, do it up in ponds. We. They do it in ponds at something called convention. And my sister was walking into the pond and she slipped and fell and baptized herself. It was so funny. So, yeah, that the.

[Interviewer]

Was it recorded?

[Megan Elizabeth]

No, no, not recorded. And the ponds are, like, pretty gross. They're. They're like just ponds on a farm. And we're all just. I mean, I just like climbing on in. And is she still in it, by the way? No, she's not. She's not. And. And I'm so happy that she's not. But I do feel bad for my parents who really tried so hard. And, like, they feel like they failed, that their two daughters Their two children are not in this. And I'm. I want to be like, no, you did good. Like, you were such good parents that we cannot take part in something so harmful. Right?

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And I want to talk about your relationship with your parents now as well. When. When you. How are other kids in school treating you? What was that like?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I mean, I was definitely bullied. I was, you know, made fun of for not knowing what one particular instance is. I tried to pretend that I knew what the movie Home Alone was. Okay, so somebody was like, I just watched Home Alone. Have you seen it yet? And I was like, no, it's too scary for me. Because the name Home Alone sounded scary to me. And they were like, so getting, like, hit with pillows and slipping on marbles is too scary for you? And I was like, yeah, what's this freaking movie about?

[Interviewer]

I thought it was a scary movie.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, Yeah. I thought it was, like a horror movie. And so then everybody would, like, call me Home Alone for the year. And I. I'm still in touch with a lot of people from. As the years went on, I was able to kind of assimilate myself just because of the personality that I have. And everyone who went to that school is completely traumatized. Like, everybody was in their own version of hell. Our particular grade had the worst boys in it ever, ever. And so, you know, I was bullied. I was picked on. It was very obvious that there was something different about me. My mother and my family looked like they were out of a movie from the 1800s. And children pick on differences.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. When did things start changing for you? Like, when did you stop believing?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, well, because you did.

[Interviewer]

At this point, you still believed.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I. I believed that my family was smarter than me because they are professionals and careers that are scientific.

[Interviewer]

What's your mom's job?

[Megan Elizabeth]

She was a nurse. A labor and delivery nurse? Yep. And she's a. She's a very smart woman. And I had dyslexia. I had adhd. I was not succeeding at math and science. I was, however, very good at English and history, for the record, because it felt like gossip. But the story never resonated with me. I didn't get it, and I didn't believe it in my heart of hearts, but I knew that my parents were correct because they were smart and I was not. And I knew that I was going to hell. I knew that with all of my heart.

[Interviewer]

So really, from a young age.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes. Yes.

[Interviewer]

Why?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Because I was, like, in the two by twos. Most people are going to hell. Even if you're a very devout follower of it, there's really no promise of salvation. I don't know how they. How they have stayed alive this long because there's no. There's no, like, wins in it, really. It's just fear. And it's like, most of us are probably going to hell. We're all the most horrible sinners. And I was like, I mean, if these people are going to hell and they believe this stuff and they're like, liking wearing the bun and the skirt and I hate it, then I'm definitely going to hell. So I would just stay up almost all night just worried about hell and, like, what if I did this when I get to hell? And what if I did? I mean, just bizarre, bizarre thinking that caused very deep ocd.

[Interviewer]

Obviously, you think that's what caused it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If I can reach the store before it closes, I won't go to hell. If I can, you know, just, like, count to 10 before the teacher says hi, I can. I won't go to hell. Just like, bizarre thinking that turned into. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Are these things you're finding out now that you're out of it and realizing. And you spent so much time also talking to people through your podcast.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

That people are in cults, that you're starting to realize how it's actually impacted you.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a book by Maggie Rowe called Send bravely that talks a lot about her. She had to actually go to, like, a hospital setting because she got such bad OCD from being scared of hell. And.

[Interviewer]

And she was in the Two by Twos.

[Megan Elizabeth]

No, she was. She was just mainstream Christian, but she's a. She's a. She's a really great comedy writer in Los Angeles in general. But then this book, and if anybody suffers from spiritual or religious trauma, it's so well written. And what is it called? It's called Send Bravely. Yeah. Yeah. It's a wonderful book. So, yeah, as I speak, she came on the podcast and as I'm speaking to her and reading her book, I'm like, ah, yes, this. This was what I was experiencing. And as I speak to more and more survivors, it becomes very obvious to me that one of the main coping mechanisms is eating disorders, which is how I ended up. Up getting out, actually, is that I. After college, I had to go to treatment for an eating disorder. So I feel like I. I see that pattern emerge as I speak to guests, and I'm like, I see, I see, I see. It's all. It all kind of comes together in this tapestry of high control religious survivors.

[Interviewer]

So. Yeah, so walk me through sort of your teen years and how that was, how you were changing.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. So. Well, it all comes back to the Germany trip, actually. So we went and visited some workers that were in Germany and it was very, it was very strange because we went to a ton of concentration camps because my family wanted to show me. And we went with the workers, like, what. How ugly humanity can be and teach me empathy and. And people always find that odd because they're like, wouldn't very fundamental Christians find Jewish people to be wrong? I don't know. That's what people think. But no, that wasn't the case. And so we went to a ton of concentration camps. And I was chubby at the time and I completely quit eating because I was so depressed because you just taken like a sensitive 12 year old to Auschwitz. You know what I mean? Like, I was sad. So when I got home, this was a summer trip, I was 30 pounds lighter. And suddenly I went to school and people were like, you're cool, you're cute. And I became. Well, I got an eating disorder. And then I just started having friends bring me clothes and makeup to school so that I could fit in. And then I became like an absolute menace to society. For example, we weren't allowed to go to dances. And the two by twos, you weren't right?

[Interviewer]

You're not allowed to dance.

[Megan Elizabeth]

We're not allowed to dance. Footloose all the way, you know, like, not allowed to dance and not, not

[Interviewer]

allowed to listen to music.

[Megan Elizabeth]

You're not supposed to, but we listened to music. Like we had all the music on all the time. And my family's very musical, so one, my mom's side, violin. Like one of them even plays in an orchestra in Dallas. My dad's side, some of them were in like a barbershop quartet. And then my dad's an amazing piano player. And we would always, we would play, you know, like hymns, but then a lot of times just like songs from the 60s and you know, sing, sing, sing. I had a radio. Oh, my God. My. My friend in fourth grade was like, we have to convince your parents to get you a stereo, and that's gonna be your lifeline. And I got my little stereo in my, in my room and that, and I would just like listen to that. Delilah. My God. And yeah, I have no idea who Delilah is. Delilah, she's this, she's this DJ who speaks like this. And she would be like, Love songs tonight called Delilah. And she was like. Like the only thing keeping me tethered to this earth.

[Interviewer]

Do most people know who Delilah is?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, from my generation. If you don't know who Delilah is,

[Interviewer]

I'm gonna say it's not a generational thing. It's a thing I grew up. Yes.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. So I was obsessed with Delilah, and my teenagers became very debaucherous. Oh. And I guess what I'm trying to say is you weren't supposed to go to any dances. I think my senior year, I went to, like, 15 proms. No way. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Wait, and your parents, obviously, did they find out?

[Megan Elizabeth]

At a certain point, they were like, okay, we know you're to proms. Like, we'll. We'll take some pictures of you and your date. And, you know, then I just. I just was. I just was, like, rebelling in every way and, you know, was. It was just weird. And then some people were allowed to, like, my parents weren't allowed to go to dances, and a dance, to them was the craziest thing they can imagine. But then in Colorado, the rules were, like, really lax, where you'd go to some people's houses and they'd have the pictures of them going to the dances on the, like, like on the wall, and you'd be like, what the fuck? Like, why aren't I in Colorado? I don't know. It was just, like, weird.

[Interviewer]

It was. It was there. I remember in Footloose, they weren't allowed to listen to music or dance or anything because it was sort of, they believe something related to the devil. Right. It was. The devil's never seen. You've never seen Footloose? It is. What should I watch today?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay, I need to watch that. Because I haven't seen, like, any movie from that. Really?

[Interviewer]

You definitely have to watch. I think you will really relate. I mean, if I liked it, you are gonna love it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I mean, I, I, Everyone is always like, so you grew up in the town from Footloose? And I'm like, yeah, essentially, I did.

[Interviewer]

That's what it sounds like.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I mean, it's an older movie, so keep that in mind. But it's also Kevin Bacon, and he looks hot. Exactly.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I was gonna say Kevin Bacon at any age. Sign me up. I mean, not underage, but you know what I mean.

[Interviewer]

Now, from then, you absolutely have to watch it. And then please DM me.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, I will. Text me.

[Interviewer]

Ideally, I want to hear, so you were going to all these places. Can you. Can you talk a little bit about your food disorder?

[Megan Elizabeth]

If you don't mind? Yes, of course. I mean, I. Like I said, it began in Germany, but I think it would have began either way because my mother definitely was suffering from the same thing.

[Interviewer]

Oh, she was?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes. Yes. And like I said, I mean, most of the women I know in high control religion, and, let's be honest, in Los Angeles or many places have an eating disorder. But. And. And these high control groups. I won't even say religion and Los Angeles kind of is a high control

[Interviewer]

group in its own way.

[Megan Elizabeth]

In its own way. One of the only things you can really control is your body.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So I learned very quickly that it was an easy way for me to have some agency in my life. And

[Interviewer]

it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It quickly became something that I was controlling to something that was controlling me. And that was unfortunate. But it began as just like, if it's good. And this is how so many colds operate, too, you know, like, if it's good to eat 2,000 calories a day, let's say, then it must be better to eat 500 calories a day, you know, like. Like, then that must be the right thing to do, because that's even better, that's even less. And I don't feel like I'm explaining this correctly. Hold on, let me rewind.

[Interviewer]

No, yeah, I. I think the idea of control.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, yeah. It just. It becomes this. It becomes almost a cult voice in your head. You have your own cult leader now who's like.

[Interviewer]

But on the. In this one, you. You're the.

[Megan Elizabeth]

But it sounds like you. It's in your voice, but it's trying to kill you, and it's destructive, and it is all you can hear, and it. And it isn't you, but it sounds like you. And I was very lucky to go to treatment with somebody, like, with a woman who owned the place who had an eating disorder and recovered from it. And her name's Carolyn Coston, and she did an episode of Trust Me. And I so implore people to listen to that episode if they struggle with anybody in their life with an eating disorder or an eating disorder themselves. But mine started as anorexia, became bulimia. And at the end, it was just like, how. I mean, let's go. I was living a normal life where I was like a college girl. But we'd go out, I'd binge drink, leave by myself, go to Taco Bell or whatever was open, eat as much as I could throw up, go to another restaurant, get as much of it as I could, throw up, finally go home and pass out.

[Interviewer]

You know, and then wake up the next morning and what?

[Megan Elizabeth]

And miss class and then do it again? Horrible.

[Interviewer]

When did you realize or did somebody. How did treatment.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I went. So I was sent to. I was sent to therapy in high school because one of my teachers was like, you're too thin now. It's not good. And so I was like.

[Interviewer]

And your parents were noticing?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, my parents. Well, my parents were noticing, but they were kind of proud because, like I said, I was chubby for a minute and looking the part of this perfect person did involve being quite thin. And so they. They weren't, like, telling me to gain weight or anything, but they didn't want me to die. So this. This therapist helped me through quite a bit of it. And then at the end of college, I saw her again, and she was like, you need to go to treatment and just nip this in the bud, otherwise you're gonna die. And I was like, okay, sure. Because I heard that the treatment center was in Malibu. I was like.

[Interviewer]

Was the treatment center in Malibu?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I was like, so, yeah, I'll go. I'll. Malibu. Done.

[Interviewer]

Sounds so fun.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, get me. Get me there.

[Interviewer]

And what was it like?

[Megan Elizabeth]

It was so awesome. I mean, it was hard to be taken from your eating habits that made you calm down or made you high or made you whatever you get from it. And it was hard to gain weight. But ultimately I was in. It's called Montenido. It still exists, but not in the same iteration, but it was like a home in the hills of Malibu owned by a woman who'd recovered. And it was like, sitting in circles with other women discussing your feelings and, like, holding crystals and eating healthy food. I'd never had healthy food. I didn't know what an avocado was like. I was so clueless. So it was a jump start of a new connection with my body. We'd do beach walks, we'd do whatever. And I always try to make clear that my parents paid for me to go to that. And it was expensive. And they had family weekend every Saturday, and girls who were from Los Angeles, their families didn't come. My parents flew every weekend to support me. And they paid for it. Yeah. And they. They gave me an opportunity. I'm gonna cry. I'm sorry. But they gave me an opportunity to become healthy. And again, unconsciously, I don't know if they knew that would mean I would never come back, but I couldn't anymore. And because they did that and because I got access to such amazing therapy and. And. And got healthy I. I have no choice but to kind of throw the rope behind me to people because my personality is. I don't want to make people mad. I don't want to talk about. I didn't want to be one of the first people to start talking about the two by twos on podcasts and embarrass my family and bring shame to them and everyone I love and who loves me. But I. I have no choice because of what was given to me, which was just a gift.

[Interviewer]

What part of that makes you. You become more emotional?

[Megan Elizabeth]

The fact that. That they. The fact that they sacrificed so much for me to get healthy and. And it is that subconscious part that I'm just never sure with them if they knew that that meant that I would never be able to come home or never be able to rejoin this quite toxic group, because they're basically paying for very trained people to tell me, your parents are in a cult. Right.

[Interviewer]

Was that when you realized it was in therapy? It was here in Malibu?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

What was that moment like?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I mean, I already knew, but it was like I felt very defensive. I still do, even though it's true. I just felt like, Stop talking about my parents. Never say anything about my parents. Like, fuck you. But it's true, so what can you say? I mean. Yeah, it's true.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. I mean, you can both love your parents and protect them, but also be. Have the knowledge that. Yes, in fact this was of cults.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

That they are still in it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. And it's a lot of cognitive dissonance for the reason for me to be able to know that and be able to speak about it clearly is because they paid for my education and for my rehabilitation. You know, that's a hard thing to combine of. Like, I'm able to speak about this because they gave me the opportunity to, but by through doing it, I'm letting them down and humiliating them. It's a hard course. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

I'm sure there's guilt associated with that too. When you were in school, did. Did everyone. Anyone ever say to you that your parents were part of a cult or that only came in rehab? That also happened. Yeah, they would say that all the time.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. People. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And you would. You. Was that when you started thinking, oh, maybe this is a cult, or, I mean, you kind of already knew, but.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I mean, I knew it. What? I knew it was a cult always. Whether or not it was right, I wasn't sure. Like, maybe this is a cult that is actually going to happen the Only right way. But it wasn't until I would say about three or four years ago that I realized, oh, this is like the Mafia. This is a very serious criminal organization.

[Interviewer]

Which we'll get there in a second. So. But what was it in rehab that was different from what happened to you at school? What was it they said? What was the moment of realization that, yeah, oh, shit.

[Megan Elizabeth]

This is having like, the most grounded, healthy, spiritual, wise woman coming to me who knows my parents and saying, you know, they honor Carolyn Costin. Again, please listen to our episode if you're so inclined. I love your parents. I see them here every weekend and they're. They're in a cult. And you're. You're not wrong. Like, you're not going to hell. You're not missing something that you just haven't seen yet. Like, you are right. You're not crazy. And I was like, oh, yeah, wow. Okay. And again, it didn't fix things immediately. I mean, still lots of anxiety. I don't think I'll ever not have it. Lots of feeling like I'm still wrong and, you know, it's just in there, like, I'm bad. But, yeah, it's. It's. It's a weird sensation because I don't know how much of me is, like, actually rebellious bad girl or just like the most normal good girl of all time. I have no idea. It's like, I don't break laws, but I definitely got eyeliner brought to me at school and put it on. So I was told I was very bad.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, it's. It stays with you, which is like, the enduring power of this stuff.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Interviewer]

When you learn it young, it's so hard to then get out. Yeah, yeah. And unlearn it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And that's why I have so much sympathy for my parents, because they lived at times five. Like, their parents were so much more strict with it, so. And then my grandparents. Parents were more strict with it. So it's just like, yeah, you just have to have some compassion.

[Interviewer]

Was there a point in which you decided you wanted to have this conversation with your parents, or was it something that you just did throughout the years? Or was there like a one defining conversation where you're like, I'm not going back.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And you guys, we've never spoken about it. They know I have a podcast. They've never mentioned it.

[Interviewer]

You guys still talk all the time.

[Megan Elizabeth]

All the time. And when I. I'll be. I'm going home in like a week and I'll asked me to go to church with them. Or meeting is what it's called. And every time I'm like, no, and we just don't talk about things. Even when I was in treatment for bulimia, we never called it that. You know, it was much easier to say she has an eating disorder. She has. Maybe the word anorexia would be used. They knew I was bulimic, but they. It was too uncomfortable a word to say. So there's just. In this culture of this group, you do not discuss certain things. So I'll go to family vacations with many people who all know I have a podcast saying it's a call and nobody brings it up to me.

[Interviewer]

That is so crazy.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Isn't it weird.

[Interviewer]

Insane.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And you know, they know and I

[Megan Elizabeth]

know that they know, and they know that I know that they know. And we're just like, hi.

[Interviewer]

And everybody pretends this is not happening and every. That everything is okay and we're just not talking about it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Exactly. Because. No, we never talk about it.

[Interviewer]

It's crazy.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It is. It's kooky.

[Interviewer]

And. And so. And there's no. And there is no. Because you said you wanted. You always wanted. You know, I think very common for all of us, particularly women. We always want people to like us. Right. We don't want to. Cause.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Rock the boat.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Rock the boat.

[Megan Elizabeth]

At all.

[Interviewer]

So you were concerned. You didn't want to be the first one to come out publicly and call this a cult.

[Megan Elizabeth]

No.

[Interviewer]

And were. But were you or was there people before you?

[Megan Elizabeth]

There were. There were so many people before me who had been on message boards and so it would. It would like people for so long. There was a book released in the 80s called the Secret, Secret Sect that was saying, this is a cult.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And I remember. Sorry, go ahead.

[Interviewer]

No, no, no, go.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I. And I remember being told that it was a very evil book, but it was telling people like William Irvine started this cult and it wasn't by Jesus. And here's who covered it up and here's what they're doing and blah, blah, blah. And. Sorry, I forgot the question.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Because we haven't even gotten to the COVID Right. We haven't even gotten to the dark under.

[Megan Elizabeth]

No, haven't so far. It's just me with the. Yeah. With the height.

[Interviewer]

The.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Of school. Weird high school experience. But. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. But like living your whole life believing you're gonna go to. To hell and that any. Any time you want to wear eyeliner.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You know, you're considered a bad girl and you're going outside of the Church. And then therefore, for sure you're gonna go to hell. That already in itself is a really hard way to live. Not being able to dance, to go to dances, to wear, whatever you want to. It just. Yeah. It's already in itself is abusive in so many ways.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It was very unfortunate.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And. And then you add to that the underbelly, and. So do you want to talk a little bit about how you found out that was going on?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. I mean, and what it is. Yeah. So essentially, it was a two. So. Okay. So. So basically, I don't think I would have done this podcast if it weren't for the very weird way in which it came to me. Correct. Which is like, I'm with a person who gets a text from this girl saying, I want a person who was in a cult, who's a psychologist. And I was at the time training. Right. My. For my. I'd gotten my masters and was doing psychology, so I felt like that was such a coincidence. I had to do it. And then there had already been a book, There had already been message boards, but to the best of my knowledge, nobody had started doing a podcast yet. So I was the first to start podcasting about it. And what was also unusual, trying to think if I should say this or not. I'm from what's called in the group a royal family. So that means I have a person in the family who's a worker. I have a person in my family who's giving a lot of money to it, and there's a prestige to the family. So I don't think there had been anyone, certainly in a royal family, speaking on a podcast about it yet. So.

[Interviewer]

So a couple of questions.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Sorry. Yes, yes, yes.

[Interviewer]

Who's the person in your family who's a worker?

[Megan Elizabeth]

My great uncle Liesl.

[Interviewer]

Is he still alive?

[Megan Elizabeth]

No.

[Interviewer]

So. But he was a worker for three years.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

And who is donating? Is it your parents?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes. Yes.

[Interviewer]

Because they have. Make good wages.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. And they believe in it.

[Interviewer]

How do you know how much of percentage?

[Megan Elizabeth]

No clue. And that is one of the big questions that people have about this group, because where's the money going? Where it. Where is the money going if there's no buildings, if it's supposedly not for. You know, one of the big selling points is we don't collect money, but they do. So how much is it? Where is it? What's it for?

[Interviewer]

Right. And this is not something you've ever asked your parents.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Never. I can't even imagine.

[Interviewer]

In many ways this. I mean, it's you know, it could be your money one day.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It certainly won't be. I mean, it won't be because you. They have most often people leave their, their inheritance to the work the, the penniless ministry gets.

[Interviewer]

Do your parents have a retirement plan?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes, but after they die, I wouldn't be surprised if most of their estate goes to the workers. And that's fine. That's their money. I mean, did you ever think of

[Interviewer]

asking your parents about this?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I don't want them to think that I'm interested in their money.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, but you want to make sure that they at least have a retirement plan.

[Megan Elizabeth]

They definitely have a retirement plan. They're fine for their retirement. I am not expecting to receive any money upon their death. I'm assuming that it will go too.

[Interviewer]

But what if the money. Okay, there's another way of approaching this.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Sure. Please.

[Interviewer]

No, but I wonder if it's now. And we. Again, we haven't even gotten to the dark part of it. But what is this funding? Right? What is the money that they're giving to the church with no name, what

[Megan Elizabeth]

is it funding exactly to them? They think it's to spread the gospel and send the workers to places that don't have workers yet because this is the only way to get to heaven. So you're going to need to get them everywhere. These people don't have cars, health insurance, access to any money for clothing or food. So this is all of the responsibility. These hundreds of adults that are workers are the responsibility of the congregants to keep alive, to provide for. It's very expensive, even that part, much less the underbelly that we will get to. So you know, these people, these workers are completely off the grid and dependent upon the people to support them if

[Interviewer]

that's where the money is going.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Only right, of course, and it is not. But, but I think many very good intentioned people in this group believe that that is what is happening. That they're caring for the workers, God's true ministers and that they're paying for them to go spread the gospel. Eczema is unpredictable, but you can flare less with Epglis, a once monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema. After an initial four month or longer dosing phase, about four in 10 people taking Eglis achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.

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[Megan Elizabeth]

Ask your doctor about ebglis and visit epglis.lily.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so tell them. Go back to the underbelly and how you found out.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So, so we start this podcast about six years ago and I honestly thought that the, the first, first episode that released, like, I would just be murdered. I thought that like I was gonna be taken out because I, I hadn't really heard anybody talking about it yet. And it seems so dangerous to me because murdered is the wrong word. I'm gonna, I'm gonna take that out. I'm gonna say I thought I would be struck dead by lightning, by God. A God I didn't even really believe in. It felt so taboo, it felt so bizarre. But I, I, I did it and continued to do it. And these wonderful People started an X2X2 group on Facebook and I joined it and it was a couple hundred people and we were just talking about like, wow, this was crazy. People started disclosing abuse at the hands of workers. And, you know, kind of, we, we started putting some dots together. Very small, very tight knit community run by two couples who I love dearly. And suddenly we get in 2023 this letter that was released that was supposed to be a secret, but one of the women in the group, an elder's wife, took a picture of it and it said that one of the overseers who had just died was a sexual predator and he had died in a hotel. Number one, they're not supposed to be in hotels. They're supposed to stay with the people and the religion because they're the homeless ministry that stay with us. At first, when he died in a hotel, people thought he must have had Covid. He must have just been protecting people from his covet. No, he was a sexual predator with. On children. On people. Allegedly. And on. On people in the group, people out of the group. And they took his computer, one of the. One of the other workers and they wiped it clean before the police could. Could get to it. Allegedly. So this woman uploads the letter that she saw that was supposed to be destroyed and sends it to the group. And it says Dean Brewer is a sexual predator. And this man has been in how many homes throughout. I mean he's very old. He's been in the work for let's say 50 years.

[Interviewer]

You knew who this person was when you said that?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I did indeed.

[Interviewer]

He was a well known person.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh yes, yes.

[Interviewer]

Was he an overseer or.

[Megan Elizabeth]

He was an overseer.

[Interviewer]

Oh shit.

[Megan Elizabeth]

He might have been a worker at

[Interviewer]

that time, but he was an important person in the group.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes, yes.

[Interviewer]

And everybody knew who he was.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, completely. It's like the. You know how LA is like high school. This, this religion is like high school. You know, everybody, you know, you're expected to get married. And the, and the thing. We all know each other. So yeah, I knew exactly who he was. And they didn't want to give his computer to the police. They were convinced to give it to the, to, to them. And it just started. And an avalanche of disclosures. Immediately the group grew thousands of people overnight people were talking about what had happened to them and it was explosive. It. There are now 900 perpetrators named with credible allegations.

[Interviewer]

900.

[Megan Elizabeth]

900.

[Interviewer]

That is insane. That is such a crazy number.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes. And these are all people with the label credible. So that takes a lot to get to the credible label. There's hundreds more that haven't been labeled credible yet.

[Interviewer]

Wow. So it was almost like it was the perfect structure, the perfect religion, the perfect cult to how to. To cover up. Yeah. All these people. Because there was no name. Because these guys, these perpetrators were allowed to stay in people's homes in close contact, perhaps even like sleeping in kids bedrooms at night. Is this what's been.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes. You couldn't design a more perfect system. And you're raising children to think that these people are gods. God, the closest to God. And you're raising parents to say if this happened, have the child forgive. Jesus was a, was a God of mercy. We have to forgive our brothers. We have to. You know, reporting to the police is very uncommon in these groups because you don't want to tarnish the name of the kingdom. Correct. So you're Fighting for a bigger. A bigger good. And you're trying to hide a bad apple. I'm using quotations so that people don't get turned off by the only right way to go to heaven.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Yeah. It's like the perfect system. Exactly. What were some. Can you tell me some of the stories that you remember reading from those posts?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, just. There's something called conventions that we have, which is like a yearly gathering in each state. Some states have more than one. So much abuse happening at these conventions where we were forced to go. The meetings are two hours a day and they are boring as. Okay, you're. There's no. There's no. Like. Like, I've been to some of my friends, black churches, where I'm like, I could do like, this is hell. Yeah. Or any church. It doesn't. Just like any church with any sense of culture. There's nothing. There's no message. There's nothing. It's just like, dry. Like we're sitting for two hours, three

[Interviewer]

times a day, somebody is reading something, the different.

[Megan Elizabeth]

They're just speaking a monotone from verses on the Bible. It makes absolutely not a. Wow. Twit of sense. I just made up that term.

[Interviewer]

I make up words all the time.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's nonsense and it's. And it's just hypnotizing you into like a boredom that is transcendent so that it just goes straight into your brain. And then they're just taking people aside and raping them.

[Interviewer]

And that's what some of the things you read where they were. The kids said, yes, we would go

[Megan Elizabeth]

on a walk in the woods and. And you were so encouraged to go on a walk with the workers and imaginable unspeakable things were happening. And I. I believe that they were targeting families and children with the least amount of power. Like, I'm not surprised that that didn't happen to me because I think they knew I would just go tell my dad.

[Interviewer]

Because you're a royal family.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. Yeah. And I use that because they knew I was protected by him. He wouldn't stand for it. Where I feel like a lot of dads would say, don't say that. No, they didn't. Like something happened with my sister where she told my dad and he called the police and. And the person was. I think they know who's protected and who's not. I think predators just know.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, that's true.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. And so nobody was asking me to go for a walk and doing anything to me, but I know it was Happening so prevalent. Prevalently.

[Interviewer]

So nothing untoward? No one ever did anything untoward. You. Untoward? Is that how you use this word?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I'm going to use it. Well, there is. Is what? There. There was a man, his name's Robert Corfield. I. I believe I'm saying that correctly, who was also a worker, maybe an overseer. And he is one of the most prolific sexual abusers in like, Washington state. And he just so casually said to a reporter, most of the kids I was touching didn't even know I was doing it. Like, what's the big deal? They didn't even know I was doing it. And so it's like, how many people was I around that were doing that to me? I don't know.

[Interviewer]

Is this guy still out there or is he in prison?

[Megan Elizabeth]

He's not in prison. Not in prison? No. He might have.

[Interviewer]

The FBI is investigating this.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Sure, sure.

[Interviewer]

And nobody's in prison yet. From the. From the cult there. The.

[Megan Elizabeth]

The person who touched my sister is in prison because your dad went to the police? No, no. It took much more than that. He got sent back to where he was from.

[Interviewer]

But what happened? Can you tell me what happened? Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So he touched my sister inappropriately.

[Interviewer]

The person was staying at your house. Was he a worker?

[Megan Elizabeth]

He's a worker and my sister was in Texas, so we weren't in our home state. I do not believe he knew that we were from a quote, unquote royal family. So I think he got a little fresh with the wrong one. And she walked inside and told my entire family, he's touching me.

[Interviewer]

How old was she?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Probably 13. Yeah. The FBI was like, we've never heard of someone doing that. That's pretty. You know, usually kids are ashamed. But she was just like, walked inside and was like, immediately said, he's molesting me. So then a ton of other little girls were like, yeah, he's been essentially raping them in the area for years. So the police were called. Unfortunately, a two by two family. I believe one of the women was having an affair with him. Bought him a ticket out of the country back to his home country where he was.

[Interviewer]

America.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. Where he was in Latin America, where he was reinstated, back into the work and sent to kids homes. And now he finally, after raping God knows how many children, is in prison there.

[Interviewer]

And is he the one that you. The only one you know of from the cult?

[Megan Elizabeth]

There are. Somebody just went to one of the elders, just went to prison in Arizona. He was actually a. A pretty well known tech guy who was distributing child pornography. There's several others. One overseer went to prison or got like a light sentence for being an overseer who was knowingly not disclosing abusers and moving them to different homes. And certainly people have gone to jail a couple times, but nothing like what it should be.

[Interviewer]

And the victims were talking about boys and girls, right?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

All age. What was youngest you remember reading about on these posts or.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, I, I, I am. I mean, I imagine babies, but.

[Interviewer]

Oh my God, that's so disturbing.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's so disturbing.

[Interviewer]

How come people, I mean, I don't think until I started looking at to your story, I don't think I'd ever read anything about this. Why isn't this more of a thing?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Because it's probably one of the scariest groups I've ever dealt with in my life. You are so brainwashed to believe if you speak out about it publicly, you will be punished. You are so indoctrinated to be fearful. There's no guardrails against how abusive they can be to you because they're the only right way to get to heaven. So you are completely obliged to silence. And I don't know how it made it that long without widespread questions, but it did.

[Interviewer]

Our investigation.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes, yes.

[Interviewer]

And it all came out. That Facebook post that started it all was in 2021. Right.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So I think 2023.

[Interviewer]

2023. Sorry. So three years ago. And since there supposedly is an FBI investigation go Ongoing. Ongoing, right. I guess. And you have discussed this with your parents or you have not?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I told my parents that the FBI came and spoke to me.

[Interviewer]

Oh, you got a call from the FBI. Okay, so tell me about that.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I got, I was playing pickleball and I got a call and it just said FBI. And I was like, huh?

[Interviewer]

It's actually said.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That's what it said on the screen. I was like, okay. They were like, hi, it's the FBI. We're looking into the two by twos. And I was like, okay. And then they came and visited me at my home a couple years ago. Again, I'm not, you know, I, I don't have any sexual abuse to disclose to them. That didn't happen to me. So all I can give them is information on other people that, that they are speaking to. But it's so disheartening when you go into things such as the Epstein files, which are coming out now, where you're like, they don't give a shit. This is never getting fixed. The FBI isn't. It's all it's all, it's all the whole system is to protect predators. And this system just happens to be the perfect system. And they're in kids homes, kids who are taught to be meek, who are taught to trust them and are taught to do whatever the they say. It's a disaster.

[Interviewer]

It is a disaster. So you mentioned that you did talk to your parents about this after.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I, I did. I told them that the. I was very worried about the FBI. I told them, I think you have no idea the scale and the scope of this. I think, think that this is not even just a cult. I think it's a criminal ring that is distributing child pornography, that is actively moving predators to new children's homes and especially in underdeveloped countries where you can do whatever you want. Yeah, right.

[Interviewer]

There's much. Where there's much more impunity. Right. And what was their response?

[Megan Elizabeth]

They thanked me, they looked into it and then my dad said thank you for bringing to our attention that, you know, this is not just something you can put your complete trust in the whole system, you know, and, but, but they're not out of it.

[Interviewer]

So

[Megan Elizabeth]

I, I don't know.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And you know, they're not out of it because they're still going to all the meetings. They're still the weekly meetings.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, My dad is an elder, so the meetings are at our house. And, and you know, nothing. Everybody says this, but nothing really happened in our city that I know of. And our meeting is mostly elderly family members that are just meeting every week. And there's a few people in the religion, the group, who are disabled, who need help. So my mom, you know, life revolves around taking care of these people. So to them it's not so much. It's just like a community that they're taking care of. I can't get them out of taking care of people they love.

[Interviewer]

And when it becomes such a big part of who you are. Right, that's why it's so hard to leave a cult.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer]

I want to talk to you about that too. But when you did your first episode of the podcast and you started talking about the two by twos, and you said you thought you were going to be struck down, struck down by dad.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And were you actually also afraid of people inside the group wanting to come out?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I, I was worried about like, you know, some super hardcore believer being like, you're speaking out against the truth. I'm killing you. But then as I got deeper, I was like, oh, there's a lot of money here. A lot of money. And they don't, at a higher level, want people talking about this. So I did get a little scared. And I mentioned earlier that I watched something you did and was like, okay, I'm not doing that scary of stuff, so maybe I'm fine, but it definitely sits with me.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. I actually think what you're doing is way braver because I speak to all these people, but I get their consent to talk.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Talk.

[Interviewer]

Right. And we're not exposing anyone. What you're doing here is exposing.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

A whole organization. And like you said, one that's very powerful and there. Where there's a lot of money involved.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

So they have a lot to lose.

[Megan Elizabeth]

They do. They do. And exposing them. Yeah. I. I always say, like, I'm not suicidal.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Yeah. I. Yeah. I don't mean to scare you, but you should.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You should be careful. Do you do anything to make sure that you're protected?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. I live in a home that is lots of security. And I have mace and a little gun that shoots. Sorry, not to scare you. It's on a real gun. It shoots gas pellets. And I have a machete. I live with a lesbian. My roommate's a lesbian. And she just was like, like, we're gonna learn how to train ourselves. And we, like, have so many weapons that are like, if anybody breaks into this house, we are gonna, like, maybe not hurt them, but surprise them.

[Interviewer]

I love that.

[Megan Elizabeth]

For sure. You should. And it's been so helpful to, like, be with a woman as my roommate and friend who isn't like, I'm. Because we were so taught in the two by twos. Like, men are our higher powers rather than bosses. And she's like, we gotta learn how to do this shit for ourselves. Like. And I'm like, oh, damn. And now I'm. I'm. I'm like, I'm taking it into my own hands and. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Good for you.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And you haven't been contacted by anyone or anything, right?

[Megan Elizabeth]

No, I. I did get. I did get one little, like, thread. I think I know who did it, but I think at this point, they are. No, they're no longer trying to grow this group that is like. Like, you can't even invite somebody to go to the gospel meetings because they're gonna Google it and it's gonna be like child sex trafficking, blah, you know? Like, they're not trying to grow it. They're just trying to keep the people that are in it inside. Inside and giving them money. And again, many workers think that they're trying to bring the gospel to people. Many, many people have good intentions in this group, but unfortunately, it is being run by monsters.

[Interviewer]

Where's the money going to, you think?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Great question.

[Interviewer]

You don't have any idea. Do you think there's like a bank account?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Undoubtedly. Yeah. Tax.

[Interviewer]

Are there journalists reporting on this investigation?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, yeah. And. And it's getting more mainstream. There was a Hulu doc that was. Was released. I think it was like a 2020.

[Interviewer]

Oh, the night Lining.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. Yeah. And people have been like, you should do one. And I'm like, you should. I should. But I don't even know where to start. It's just so big and it's just so scary to out your family. My dad does very important work in the world. I don't want to tarnish his name. He does very radical work. So it's just hard. It's just hard. Yeah. I found myself just torn in half over it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Between sort of the responsibility that you feel as somebody who's come out to expose this and make sure nothing bad happens to anyone else.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And to also want to protect your family and be grateful for all the love and kindness they've given you throughout the years.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. They're my favorite people.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. It's fucking blouse.

[Interviewer]

That's also what's so horrible about cults in general. Right. It's because you're either in or you're out and.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Exactly.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

I'm sorry, Megan.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Thank you.

[Interviewer]

I wanted to just go through some numbers that I think most people don't know. It blew my mind when I was reading about this last night. Like how anything between 3 to 10 million Americans have been involved in culs at some point. That's really high. I cannot believe how many. And then that there are up to 10,000 active cults in America today. Did you. I'm sure you knew that I was about to ask. Did you know that?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I would say that. I'd say that those numbers are minimum.

[Interviewer]

You think it's more than 10, 10,000?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, yeah. I mean, especially with social media.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

People can start to call every day. People are starting AI cults. My AI is actually connected to God and it's giving me answers. And people are paying them. People are starting. I talked about this on my favorite murder. But people often start off as cleanses, like, where they're like, this is a. An easy way to lose 10 pounds. And then you join a little group that's talking about your cleanse. And then suddenly weirder and weirder things. Are introduced. And then you're like, well, I'm losing weight. And these people are nice. And then you're a nice. A religious group that you didn't even know you were entering. They always get you in with normal. Scientology is like, come take an acting class. It's normal. And you know, there's just so many everywhere, right?

[Interviewer]

Yeah, there is. And I mean, even in like, places like Roblox and Minecraft where like young kids are now part of these groups that they have to.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Killing themselves. Yes. Disgust.

[Interviewer]

Hurting themselves for.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

It's. There's like a whole.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

It's like the 7, 6, 4, something group that's active there where they force kids. They say if you want to pledge your loyalty to the group, you have to hurt yourself or send other people.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Send a nude. That's very graphic and insane. Yeah. And even, even the upset, like, you're just like, that's a cult. That's a cult. Everything's a cult. I've never met a serious per actor in an acting class where I'm not like, you're in a cult. Right. These acting teachers that are like, oh, yeah, yeah, they're insane. I'm sure there's some great ones, but like, a lot of them are like, I can see the truth and you're not telling the truth right now. And it's like, no, you can't. What are you talking about? Stop it. Shut up. Like, there's so many ways for narcissists to take control of group dynamics and make it a horrible, horrible thing. It's so prevalent.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Yeah. It's funny, I was. How I said like 7 to 3 to 10, but I mean, there's many people out. Out there that argue that just organized religion in general is very much a cult. Right. What is the definition of a culture? Cults. Like what?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I. I mean, there's so many different ones, but I think the one that's given the most respect right now is the bite model by Steve Hasson. It's behavioral control, information control, thought control and. And emotional control.

[Interviewer]

And, you know, they're behavioral intelligence thought and informational. Informational thought and information.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And.

[Interviewer]

And, oh my God, already. Informational thought.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

And emotional control. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So again, and it could be a combination.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It could be. Yeah. And that applies to so many things. So many things in religion in general. But yeah, if somebody's really controlling your information, I think that's one of the most dangerous things. And that's something that we're seeing a lot with online right now. And social media and pushing you different algorithms of information. So we're all just like becoming our own little cult.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah. Our little cultish islands. It's true in so many ways. Yeah. Another interesting fact that I looked into yesterday is that cult survivors. And this. I think I want you to talk about it. But how cult survivors experience PTSD at a 65% rate compared to, say, 6.8% of Americans generally. So 10 times more, or, you know, even veterans experience it at 10 to 25%. So. So it's double or triple what veterans like, people who have actually spent time in wars. How do you tell me about you?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I think that when people, you know, there's. There's very serious things about physical ptsd, mental ptsd, emotional ptsd. But when you get into spiritual abuse and whether or not you believe in an actual soul or not, your spiritual life, when you are abusing somebody's eternal soul and telling them that that's a real thing and they're gonna potentially burn for eternity.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That's crazy. And it's. It's. It gives you PTSD also when you're handing over your agencies, because a lot of cults don't have hell involved, but when you're handing over your agency and then you realize it's for. Not. It's just so traumatizing. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Time spent, too.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Time spent years of your life. Yeah. Just. It's. It makes. I've never heard that statistic before, but it doesn't surprise me. And I just think that cults are playing with a whole different level of life than. Because I, for example, I've. I've almost died physically trying to actually through an eating disorder. And I found it far less traumatizing than to believe I was going to hell, you know, so. Yeah, the. The. The. The trauma that comes with somebody controlling your mind.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Is deep.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. What do you believe in now?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I believe in the truth. Of just not that truth.

[Interviewer]

Not sure if that's the right word to use.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I believe in this frequency and resonance of just saying what's real and looking for real connections and wanting to find the light in this world. And I don't know. I know I'm not higher intelligence. I know there is a higher intelligence at play. I can see that. That all of the time. I don't know what it is. It's definitely not a man.

[Interviewer]

Amen to that.

[Megan Elizabeth]

But there's definitely higher intelligence that I give my reverence to. But I, in my daily life, just want to tell the truth and connect And. And try to shed light on the darkness. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Megan, you're awesome.

[Megan Elizabeth]

You're so awesome.

[Interviewer]

No, you are. No, but you really are. You're so beautiful, so smart, so funny. And the fact that you are able to talk about your past and your, you know, the struggles that I'm sure you still go through in the way that you do, and the fact that you still love your parents so much and you're still trying to protect them and your family. And I can see that's like a very hard struggle inside of you. And it's at the same time beautiful to see as somebody who's also very close to my family.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Truly special. You're. You're a special human being.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Thank you. You know, I'm a huge fan, so it means double coming from you.

[Interviewer]

Oh, thank you. Last thing that I was going to close out, but I wanted to ask you one last thing, which is. So now you have the podcast. What else are you doing?

[Megan Elizabeth]

So I'm working on a cult makeover show. Kind of like Queer Eye.

[Interviewer]

So fun.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

For people who are in a cult. That is such a good show.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. So that we're. We're working on that. I'm also pitching this show that's like a. It's a reality dating show where it's love in a bunker. Because I, you know, it's like love at the end of the world. And then.

[Interviewer]

Great.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I'm pitching a cartoon that's about a rehab in Malibu.

[Interviewer]

We might hire you here at Muck Media, my production crew to come up with ideas. Cause you're really good.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I'm on one. And then I'm writing a show about being a 8th grader in the 90s. Very Dairy Girls. Who's in a cult. And also with billionaires who have bunkers. You know what I mean? I have a niche. Yeah. Yes.

[Interviewer]

Scary girls. The best.

[Megan Elizabeth]

God, I'm so obsessed with it.

[Interviewer]

Everybody to watch it. It is so good.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Have you seen her new show?

[Interviewer]

I have not seen it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Me either. We should start it at the same time. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Megan, it was so fun. You're so fun to hang out with. I hope we're gonna exchange numbers right after this and stay in touch forever.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, we better. I, I, I. I'll be asking you for that.

[Interviewer]

Thank you so much for coming.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Thank you for having me.

[Interviewer]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistants Assistance assistance. Switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee, full [e-mail].