Podcast Summary: "Retired ICE Agent"

The Hidden Third with Mariana van Zeller

Date: February 4, 2026
Host: Mariana van Zeller
Guest: Eric Ballier, Retired Special Agent, Department of Homeland Security

Episode Overview

This episode of The Hidden Third features an in-depth conversation with Eric Ballier, a retired ICE special agent who spent 25 years working the U.S.-Mexico border, fighting drug trafficking, human smuggling, and corruption within law enforcement. Ballier discusses his unconventional journey into law enforcement, his front-line experience with border operations, his pivotal role in the captures of El Chapo, and his candid views on the failures, reforms, and excesses of modern immigration enforcement—especially the current militarization of ICE under recent U.S. administrations.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Eric Ballier’s Path Into Law Enforcement

• Background & Family Life (01:26)

  • Grew up in Baldwinsville, a suburb of Syracuse, NY, in a classic middle-class setting.
  • Early inspiration stemmed from a neighbor who was a deputy sheriff and brought Eric along for ride-alongs, sparking his interest in law enforcement.
  • Initial college experience marked by lack of discipline and focus, leading to trouble, partying, and nearly being expelled (03:26).

• Turning Point (05:16)

  • Senior year internship with the New York State Police introduced Eric to the seriousness and appeal of the work, setting him on his career path.

• Early Career Moves (06:23)

  • Accepted a job with U.S. Border Patrol in Nogales, Arizona, just prior to 9/11.
  • Experienced culture shock and a rapid learning curve upon arrival at the southern border.

Life on the U.S.-Mexico Border

• Border Patrol Operations (08:20)

  • First field operation: Human smuggling interdiction, learning to identify and apprehend material witnesses for prosecution (09:01).
  • Mostly dealt with Mexican migrants, some Central Americans, few violent confrontations.

• Everyday Dangers

  • "Rocking" incidents, where agents are hit with rocks thrown from the Mexican side, were common and dangerous (12:27).
  • (15:06) — Eric reflects on the deadly force policy:

    "If you take a rock to the head, you’re going to be incapacitated. … We were trained that this [rocking] is a deadly force."

• No Militia Presence Early On

  • Militia activity and vigilantism on the border ramped up later, around 2005 onward (19:33).

The Creation of DHS and Growing Pains

• Post-9/11 Transformation (20:02, 22:25)

  • Eric joined as a Special Agent just before 9/11; recounts chaos of that morning and aftermath.
  • DHS created to merge agencies and fix communication gaps exposed by 9/11; resulted in logistical chaos, slow technology integration, "a complete shit show" (23:34).

• Impact of Rapid Hiring (26:10, 27:42)

  • Post-9/11 hiring surge led to reduced standards, vetting failures, and a dramatic increase in internal corruption:
    • CBP officers arrested every 24-36 hours since 2005, a higher per-capita crime rate than among undocumented immigrants (27:42).
    • ICE and CBP faced misconduct and corruption scandals; Eric later worked in ICE’s internal affairs.

Going After the Cartels

• Collaboration with Informants and Cartel Insiders (31:43)
  • Built cases through critical informants embedded in cartel structures.
  • Described the structure and rivalries of the Sinaloa cartel and associated border "plazas" (34:01, 35:09).

Wiretaps and the Manhunt for El Chapo

• Pivotal Role in El Chapo’s Arrests (41:00–55:29)
  • Led wiretap strategy that intercepted Chapo's communications, with traffickers speaking openly about killings and drug shipments.
  • Orchestrated U.S.-Mexico cooperation leading up to the 2014 Mazatlan raid and ultimate arrest:
    • Memorable moment: "We got them, boys. We got them." (54:44)
  • Dramatic recounting of repeated escapes and finally capturing "the most wanted man behind Zawahiri" (43:33).
  • Discussed notorious escape via tunnel from Altiplano prison and the subsequent manhunt.

Sean Penn, Kate del Castillo, and Chapo’s Final Capture

• Celebrity Intervention (66:38–74:29)
  • Discussed bizarre episode where actors Sean Penn and Kate del Castillo’s meeting with El Chapo (ostensibly for a biopic) helped law enforcement pinpoint his location.
  • U.S. authorities tracked the actors’ movement and nearly coordinated a raid, but were held back due to risk to U.S. citizens.
  • Ultimately, Chapo was located through increased pressure and cooperation with Mexican marines; arrested after intense firefight and chase (74:29–78:23).
  • Reflected on seeing Chapo in court, "almost like a middle-aged guy that was just sitting, looking around"—deflating the myth of a criminal mastermind (79:52).

Corruption, Internal Affairs, and Ethics

• Investigating Law Enforcement (89:35)

  • Ballier’s work in ICE’s internal affairs included DUI cases, corruption, rape allegations in detention, and visa fraud.

  • Some corruption present but not "rampant;" noted the lack of publicly available ICE arrest data compared to CBP (91:43).

  • Questioned the wisdom and accountability of current rapid-fire hiring and training (94:07):

    “You’re talking over three times the normal yearly hiring in a two-week period ... It is irresponsible.” (94:37)

• Concerns Over Militarization and Use of Force

  • Criticized recent deployment of poorly vetted ICE agents to suppress civil protests on U.S. streets, wearing masks and lacking accountability (97:03, 98:36):

    "I am absolutely against ... domestic U.S. law enforcement should be wearing masks. ... It strips away all accountability." (98:36)

  • Decried excessive, "straight to the top" use of force and normalization of violence against civilians:

    "That force can escalate and de-escalate at a moment’s notice ... What I see here is, it’s just straight to the top and it’s staying there." (99:33)

• Leadership Failures and Chilling Effect on Whistleblowers (100:51–102:18)

  • Noted a systematic chilling effect on internal critics; described losing friends and threats for speaking out (102:24):

    "One guy, who I’ve known for 24 years, was at my wedding, texted me after the Renee Good shooting: 'If you ever see me on the street, you better turn around and walk the other way.'"

• The ‘Thin Blue Line’ and Public Trust (104:38)

  "We didn’t take an oath of omerta. We took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution … There are great men and women in law enforcement, but the divide between the public and law enforcement is growing."

Ethical Policing and America’s Immigration Policies

• Training, Accountability, Recruitment (113:10–114:34)

  • Recalls limited crowd control training even after 25 years—emphasizes the risk to both agents and the public from untrained deployments.
  • Emphasizes that law enforcement authority is a privilege: "You are vested with the authority to take liberty and legally take life."

• On Recent Protest Killings—Renee Good and Alex Paretti (110:04–116:05)

  • Disavows the justification for both killings:

    "I don’t see a law enforcement reason for the officer who shot Renee Good to be standing in front of the vehicle." (110:39) "I don’t think there is any justification for the use of deadly force, nonetheless 10 or 11 shots while he was already on the ground, incapacitated." (116:05)

  • Cites policing by ego and ‘us vs. them’ mentality as factors in abuse.

• On Current Immigration Raids and Resource Diversion (126:01–128:39)

  • Argues that federal resources spent on mass civil immigration raids actively divert attention from serious crimes (child exploitation, human trafficking, transnational cartels).
  • Addressed the political origins of current deportation goals (Stephen Miller’s "pulled out of his butt" number of 3,000/day), the targeting of non-criminal immigrants, and loss of focus on real threats.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "My job was to get two. I got my two. Terry didn’t get the driver. But that’s okay." —Eric Ballier on early border operation (11:26)
• "If you take a rock to the head, you’re going to be incapacitated... it could kill you." —Eric Ballier (13:23)
• "2002 to 2004 was an absolute disaster [for DHS]." —Eric Ballier (23:37)
• "In a typical year, HSI might onboard 400 agents. They onboarded 1246 in one pay period in January." —Eric Ballier (94:38)
• "I am absolutely against... U.S. law enforcement should NOT be wearing masks." —Eric Ballier (98:36)
• "Just because you may be legally able to do something does not make it carte blanche authority or a good decision to do it." —Eric Ballier (107:23)
• "We got them, boys. We got them." —Agent Jake, after Chapo’s arrest (54:44)
• "We’re losing on... We’ve taken him and some others out of that pressure on Sinaloa since 2012... we’re losing on the big stuff." —Eric Ballier (127:20)
• "Your girls will be proud. I can live with people not liking me. That’s okay." —Eric Ballier (130:15)

Important Timestamps

• 01:26 — Eric’s childhood, early law enforcement inspiration
• 03:26 — College trouble and turning point
• 08:20-11:26 — First border operation; apprehending human smugglers
• 12:27 — Everyday dangers: "rockings" at the border
• 23:34 — Chaos of DHS post-9/11
• 27:42 — Staggering corruption statistics in CBP
• 41:00–55:29 — Chapo wiretaps, hunt, and arrest
• 66:38–74:29 — Celebrity involvement in Chapo manhunt
• 97:03–99:33 — Militarization of ICE, mask-wearing, and use of force
• 110:04–116:05 — The Renee Good and Alex Paretti protest killings
• 126:01–128:39 — Diversion of federal law enforcement resources

Final Reflections

Eric Ballier's candid, insider account underscores how America's approach to immigration and federal law enforcement has developed structural problems. He argues for smarter, more humane, and accountable law enforcement—concerned by current trends in militarization, misdirected resources, erosion of public trust, and a lack of leadership willing to confront the agency’s abuses. His final hope is for more whistleblowers and internal reformers:

"It doesn’t make you anti-law enforcement. I believe in strong borders and immigration enforcement... But there’s a way to do it responsibly, with empathy, fairness, under the law and Constitution. That’s not where we’re at right now." (123:34)

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the hidden realities of U.S. border enforcement, the internal culture of DHS, and the future of policing in America.