Podcast Summary: The Hidden Third
Episode: The Woman Who Took On Amazon
Host: Mariana van Zeller | Guest: Amy Nelson
Release Date: February 25, 2026

Episode Overview

In this gripping episode, Mariana van Zeller sits down with Amy Nelson–lawyer, entrepreneur, and mother of four–to unravel her extraordinary six-year battle against Amazon and the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ). After Amy’s husband, Carl Nelson, was accused of a crime by his former employer Amazon, the couple’s assets were seized, their reputations destroyed, and their livelihoods upended. Amy details her journey from a thriving startup founder to a TikTok whistleblower, ultimately winning a major federal ruling. Together, Mariana and Amy delve into the dark intersections of corporate power, federal law enforcement, and the devastating human toll exacted on everyday families.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Amy’s Background and the Birth of The Riveter

• [02:25–05:15] Amy shares her path from practicing law to launching The Riveter: a women-focused co-working startup inspired by Rosie the Riveter. She grew the business rapidly to 150 employees across 10 spaces in six states, all while raising four young daughters.
  • Notable Quote:
    • "I wanted to do something I felt passionate about...to say I’m going to do something else and something a lot riskier, where I could fail very easily, that was hard." – Amy Nelson [04:18]

2. Carl Nelson’s Work at Amazon Web Services (AWS)

• [05:18–07:43] Amy explains Carl’s career building AWS data centers—the hidden financial engine powering not just Amazon, but much of the internet and U.S. government agencies.
  • Notable Quotes:
    • "Amazon builds data centers that house the cloud, the Internet...Amazon has this leverage, right, over the government. It’s a very, very close relationship." – Amy Nelson [07:43]
    • "There’s a revolving door between people who work at these companies and in the government. It’s pretty shocking." – Amy Nelson [08:31]

3. The FBI Raid and Federal Accusations

• [09:56–15:07] Amy recounts the morning in April 2020 when the FBI knocked on their door, investigating Carl for "private sector honest services fraud" (a novel charge) related to his Amazon employment contract. They were issued a target letter and notified of impending asset seizures.
  • Notable Quote:
    • "Once you’re in their crosshairs, they won’t let go. And I just thought, my husband’s gonna go to prison and he hasn’t committed a crime." – Amy Nelson [25:02]

4. Civil Asset Forfeiture & Crushing Financial Pressure

• [17:40–21:18] Without a formal charge or trial, the DOJ completely emptied the Nelson family’s bank accounts under civil forfeiture; funds sent to lawyers and Amy’s (unaccused) accounts were also seized. Even Amy’s terminally ill father’s assets were taken over financial ties to the family.
  • "The government can seize your assets on the suspicion they’re tied to a crime…the DOJ emptied every single bank account we had." – Amy Nelson [17:40]
  • "I looked through the docket...and could not find a single instance similar to what they’d done to our family." – Amy Nelson [21:18]

5. Emotional, Social & Family Fallout

• [25:02–28:17] Amy describes the psychological trauma, social ostracization, and familial upheaval that followed. Friends abandoned them, and they eventually sold their home, moving from Seattle to California, then Honolulu, then Ohio—house-hopping with four daughters in tow.

6. Legal Machinations & Amazon’s Motives

• [36:00–47:58] Details emerge implicating Amazon in using the federal criminal case as leverage for a high-stakes contractual dispute, needing a felony conviction to exit $500 million in obligations to a data center partner. Coordination between Amazon’s lawyers and DOJ prosecutors is exposed through emails and civil discovery.
  • "The level of partnership...is stunning. The FBI were giving Amazon lawyers updates, hourly, about our case." – Amy Nelson [41:32]
  • "Not only do billionaires exist by a separate set of rules, but people with access and relationships live by a separate set of rules." – Amy Nelson [50:37]

7. Going Public: Amy’s Social Media Battle

• [60:21–66:23] After losing a lucrative job due to association with the case, Amy turns to TikTok to document their story, gaining over 250,000 followers and galvanizing public outrage.
  • Notable Quote:
    • "If I can’t work, then I’m going to say everything I need to say...every lawyer said don’t, but Alex said, ‘we’re not afraid of the facts, go share them.’" – Amy Nelson [62:36]
    • "I put the [Amazon cease and desist] letter on TikTok...bullies only know how to bully." – Amy Nelson [63:47]

8. Major Legal Turning Points & DOJ Reversal

• [70:23–73:57] After Amazon’s civil case collapses—a judge rules Carl did not violate his contract—the DOJ shocks observers by vacating four previously secured guilty pleas related to the case.
  • "The DOJ did something absolutely extraordinary...they vacated four guilty pleas. It does not happen." – Amy Nelson [72:37]
  • "Somebody came to you and they lied...who on that side will be going to prison? No one." – Amy Nelson [73:57]

9. Why This Story Stays Underground

• [75:20–88:08] Amy discusses her struggles to get mainstream media coverage and book deals, hindered by Amazon’s advertising power and the risk-averse nature of legacy news.
  • "Amazon’s power over everything in this country is truly stunning...Amazon is the largest buyer of ads in the media around the world." – Amy Nelson [75:20]
  • "My friend at the New York Times...my editor would never let me tell this story because it supports Trump's narrative. But it’s the truth." – Amy Nelson [87:19]

10. Civil Forfeiture & Calls for Legal Reform

• [92:09–96:36] Amy identifies civil asset forfeiture as a particularly egregious legal loophole, disproportionately harming the vulnerable. She advocates reform—beginning with more state-level, less politicized criminal law, and the abolition of civil forfeiture.
  • "We have a system of pleas where almost everybody pleads guilty. And because of this I think the FBI and federal prosecutors break the rules...every day." – Amy Nelson [92:15]
  • "If they can do this to you guys, they can do this to anyone." – Mariana van Zeller [88:20]

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On DA's ‘partnership’ with Amazon:
  "We’ve hand-selected our two best prosecutors for you and Amazon’s important matter..." – Amazon’s lawyer via DOJ email [42:04]
• On personal resolve:
  "My husband said something to me...I’ve accepted the worst possible outcome. You need to accept it too. And then we both need to do everything we possibly can to make it not happen." – Amy Nelson [31:30]
• On being public as protection:
  "There is a lot of protection in being incredibly public and that, you know, it’s like you could think, okay, they sent me a cease and desist letter, but they didn’t act on it because what would happen?" – Amy Nelson [65:54]
• On broken justice:
  "How many people have been through this and been destroyed? That’s not justice." – Amy Nelson [50:45]
• On fighting for reform:
  "The impact of civil forfeiture is extraordinary...if they pulled you over and you had a dime bag of weed, they could take your entire car." – Amy Nelson [93:30]

Important Timestamps

• Amy’s Career Pivot: [02:33–04:23]
• AWS Role in National Security: [05:18–07:43]
• FBI Knock & Target Letter: [09:56–15:07]
• Asset Seizure Details: [17:40–21:18]
• Selling House & Moving: [54:50–58:29]
• Amazon’s Motive for Federal Case: [36:00–47:58]
• DOJ–Amazon Email Revelations: [41:29–44:46]
• Going Public on TikTok: [60:21–66:23]
• DOJ Vacates Guilty Pleas: [70:23–73:57]
• Barriers to Media Coverage: [75:20–88:08]
• Amy’s Legal Reform Vision: [92:09–96:36]

Closing Thoughts

Amy’s story is a rare window into the power wielded by mega-corporations, the frailties of federal justice, and the resilience of an ordinary family fighting for justice. Despite staggering financial loss, personal trauma, and ongoing litigation, Amy’s fearless advocacy has made her a champion for legal reform and a lifeline for others caught in the system’s crosshairs.

For more, follow Amy Nelson on TikTok or check for updates on her forthcoming self-published book.

Related:

• Follow The Hidden Third for more true stories from the world’s hidden economies.
• Support justice reform by learning more about civil forfeiture and federal prosecutorial discretion.