The World’s Best Bounty Hunter: How Michelle Gomez Finds People Who Vanish

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Hidden Third — "The World’s Best Bounty Hunter: How Michelle Gomez Finds People Who Vanish" Host: Mariana van Zeller
Guest: Michelle Gomez
Date: June 24, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the hidden world of skip tracing and private investigation, featuring Michelle Gomez—dubbed by Wired as "the world’s best bounty hunter." Host Mariana van Zeller interviews Gomez about her unique style, remarkable career, and the cases that have shaped her, from high-stakes repo jobs to international fraud busts. Through stories that combine street smarts, empathy, and serious investigative skill, listeners get to see how underground economies intersect with real human experiences and law enforcement failures.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to Michelle Gomez & Skip Tracing

• Skip Tracing Defined:
  Michelle calls herself a skip tracer—someone skilled at finding people who don't want to be found, often after law enforcement or other agencies have failed.
  • Quote: "I know their colors. I know what their favorite color is, what their favorite food is, how they speak, what their dog's name is, their cat name is. I know their nicknames. I know everything, because I've already done a deep dive." (00:58)
• Tracing is about connecting dots quickly—faster than the “normal PI, the normal cop, the normal judicial system.”
• She uses a broad skillset: everything from internet sleuthing and phone techniques to leveraging a vast network built since 2000 in the repossession industry.
• “Skip” comes from people or assets skipping out on obligations (04:29-04:40).

2. Personal Backstory — Childhood Roots & Motivation

• Tech Roots:
  Raised by IBM engineers, Michelle grew up tinkering with motherboards and model cars, feeding a lifelong obsession with “figuring out how things work.”
  • Quote: “…that actually is partly why you're now obsessed with figuring out how things work.” (06:23-06:33)
• Formative Experience with Domestic Abuse:
  A pivotal moment came when her fiancé turned violent; using legal avenues, she ensured he faced justice—a personal mission that would steer her toward investigative work (07:36-08:59).

3. Early Career: From Law Office to Repo Yards

• Started as a law office assistant; skilled at gathering information, she quickly realized her natural investigative abilities (09:00-09:33).
• Shifted into repossession after meeting contacts in the industry—at first skeptical, she learned to navigate this tough business with empathy and compassion.
• Successfully tracked down a long-missing van by using clever pretext and listening skills, refusing to act during moments of family bereavement (14:54-21:15).
  • Quote: “...when I was in the tow business, that was my playground, you know. Beautiful. Don't ever judge a book by its cover." (13:52-14:54)

4. Empathy in Investigation — The Compassionate Skip Tracer

• Gomez stands out for her deep empathy, often going beyond the call by helping debtors mitigate losses, communicating options, and even befriending many she’s tasked with tracking (21:15-21:45, 24:49-25:49).
  • Quote: "I don't look at a benefit as me helping me. I'm finding out a way I can help you, not so that I can feel good, but to make your life better." (24:49)
• Female and diminutive (“4’11”, 100 pounds”), Michelle uses these “unexpected” traits to her advantage, gaining access and lowering subjects’ guards (22:25-23:23).

5. Methodology: Social Engineering, Disguises & Pretexts

• Extensive use of “deep dives”—online research before any in-person work.
• Clever pretexts: cookie seller, lost pet owner, coupon distributor, even sex worker.
  • Quote: "I'll go buy, like, things like at Subway and... go straight to my target. I’m like, ‘hi!’" (26:35-27:08)
• Disguises (wigs, outfits) are routine, but never anything illegal—avoids impersonating federal agents or mishandling mail (27:41-27:39).

6. Case Studies & Greatest Hits

A. The Twins Who Weren’t (38:10-39:11)

• Tasked with tracking twins who kept switching identities to dodge repo agents; turned out to be the same individual living a double life.

B. The Ryan Mullen Yacht Case ("Catch Me If You Can") (39:11-51:30)

• International fraudster posing as a wealthy man, using a rotating cast of identities, fake financials, and accomplices.
• Gomez pieced together the scam’s “triangle”—finance, feet (movers), main perpetrator—by targeting weak links.
  • Quote: "A scammer will always have three legs, and they work in triangles... you got your feet, you got your finance, and you got your movers." (45:51-46:13)
• Ultimately led to Mullen’s arrest while he attempted to escape on a yacht—arrested with his menagerie of pets (two chihuahuas, two cats, a parrot).
• Notorious for his parrot’s phrases: “Kill em all” and “Where’s Mullen?” (51:12)
• Mullen’s scams were propped up by political and law enforcement connections, hinting at deep, systemic corruption (51:41-52:29).

C. The Prince of Dubai / San Antonio: Alex George Stonious (53:01–66:51)

• International conman who defrauded wealthy individuals in Texas and beyond with bogus investments.
• Used fake luxury, doctored financials, and romantic relationships (including with an ex-FBI agent) to entrap victims.
• Gomez’s exposure efforts led to prison time for Alex, but also revealed the cost to victims and the complicity of other players—politicians, law enforcement, and even family (58:36).
  • Quote: "Every one of them had a fake financial statement. Everything looked perfect. Especially for a businessman to be in that business knowing about wealth and money and movement and the—everything was picture perfect." (56:01)
• Tragic collateral damage: the death of ex-FBI agent Toletta, who was emotionally ensnared in Alex’s orbit (63:28-65:10).

7. Professional Growth, Recognition & Legacy

• After Wired’s profile, Gomez’s reputation skyrocketed, drawing clients from all over the world and high-value, high-risk cases (53:01–53:21).
• Now part of White Star Consulting, handling elite cases unsolved by anyone else (67:25–67:46).

8. Techniques for Listeners: Safety & Security Tips by Mariana

• Briefly, Mariana lists her everyday cybersecurity steps, though this was a quick, instructive aside (10:07).

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Michelle on Her Process:
  "I know their colors... I'm going to sell cookies and I'm going to get ahold of this person, my main subject..." (00:58)
• On Compassion in a Tough Industry:
  “I learned to be compassionate, and I become friends with all my debtors.” (21:15)
• On Social Engineering:
  “I have wigs... I pretended to be a sex worker once, which was fun.” (27:41–27:49)
• On Scammer Tactics:
  “A scammer will always have three legs, and they work in triangles.” (45:51)
• Parrot from the Mullen Case:
  “The bird was carried off... repeating again and again: ‘Kill em all’ and ‘Where’s Mullen?’” (51:12)
• On Being Underestimated:
  “Women are often underestimated. Right. So people don’t expect much from us. And we’re also very empathetic.” (24:27–24:46)
• Final Words:
  “Essentially, I will find you... We have one of the best cases that come to us, and we take care of cases that no one can take care of.” (67:17–67:46)

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Important Timestamps

• Intro to Skip Tracing & Method (00:58–04:40)
• Childhood / Tech Roots (05:19–06:33)
• First Repo Case & Learning Empathy (13:52–21:15)
• Social Engineering/Disguises (25:16–28:59)
• Case Studies Start:
  • “Twins” Repo Case (38:10)
  • Ryan Mullen Case (39:11–51:30)
  • Parrot Moment (51:12)
  • Prince of San Antonio/Alex Case (53:01–66:51)
• Empathy & Underestimation (21:15–24:49)
• On Corruption and Unfinished Work (51:41–52:47)
• Professional Recognition / White Star Consulting (67:17–67:46)
• Conclusion and Friendship (68:02–68:56)

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Tone & Language

The tone is conversational and deeply human, laced with dark humor, candid reflection, and immense empathy. Michelle’s style is both no-nonsense and nurturing—she blends technical acumen with emotional intelligence. Mariana’s questioning is curious, respectful, and collaborative, often comparing her own journalistic techniques to Michelle’s investigative methods.

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For New Listeners

This episode is a masterclass in undercover investigation, demonstrating how underground economies, psychology, and personal histories intersect. If you want to know how real-world skip tracing works—and how empathy can crack cases where brute force or intimidation fails—Michelle Gomez sets the standard.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

before we start this week's episode, a quick note. This show exists because of people like you. If you want to help us keep making episodes like this, you can Support the Hidden Third on [e-mail] TheHidden Third There you'll get access to bonus content, lots of behind the scenes and much, much more. And if you haven't already, please follow or subscribe to the show wherever you're listening or watching and leave us a rating, a review and comment. It really helps us over here. Thank you so much.

[A]

I know their colors. I know what their favorite color is, what their favorite food is, how they speak, what their dog's name is, their cat name is. I know their nicknames. I know everything. Cuz I've already done a, a deep dive. I'm like, okay, so they're going to be at this outlet. I'm going to wear my flip flops and I'm going to wear little sunglasses and I'm going to go in here and I'm going to sell cookies and I'm going to get a hold of this person, my main subject, and I'm going to have a, going to have a talk with them.

[B]

Wired called her the world's best bounty hunter. She's a skip tracer and private investigator who has spent more than two decades finding people who do not want to be found, taking on cases that other investigators, collection agencies and even law enforcement have already given up on. Michelle Gomez, welcome to the Hidden Third. I am so happy to have you here. We've been talking for so long now, right?

[A]

Yeah. Thank you very much for having me on your show. It's honor.

[B]

Oh, it's the honor to finally meet you. Oh mine. Wait, so let's give our guests first of all and how we first started communicating and it was because of this case that you were investigating. A few years ago I got an email from this person called Mark. I'm not going to give his last name, but Mark saying that he had been scammed. I got a lot, I get a lot of people contacting me, scam victims, Contacting me almost on a daily basis. But this one sounded a little different because he had lost almost a million dollars. He'd been swindled by what I then, when I started looking into the story, what we then started calling the Prince of San Antonio, because we found out

[A]

that the Prince of Dubai.

[B]

The Prince of Dubai, but who had then moved to San Antonio. And he's swindling a lot of people in San Antonio, Texas. Right.

[A]

All over my every.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, everywhere. Yeah.

[B]

And we started looking into this case and trying to figure out if we could tell that story. But then while we were researching the story, we realized that there's one person that's sort of at the center of all the scams, and that's you. Not as the scammer, but as the person who's been investigating this guy and who sort of knows all the scams that he's been involved. Involved at. Yeah.

[A]

And how he scams.

[B]

Yeah. And then I remember starting to hear about you and what you do and finding. Finding it fascinating. So you're a skip tracer, right? That's what you call yourself. Tell us, first of all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What. What is skip tracing? And then we'll get also to this case that I just mentioned. But tell me. The skip tracer was.

[A]

There's a. There's a dictionary vocabulary word for. Dictionary for skip tracing. But being a skip tracer all these years, I find it collectively interesting how I can just find information fast. I know how to maneuver around the Internet, maneuver my way around the phone, make contacts, and being in the. As a. As a skip tracer PI I was a skip tracer before I even became a PI in 2014. So I had already built a network since 2000 in the repossession industry, and I built my network that way ahead. I knew as a skip tracer, you learn how to work cases from plumbing, surveying, construction, repossession, locating, cosmetology. You name it, I know I've learned it.

[B]

And it's called skip tracing. Tell me if I'm wrong, but it's because you're looking for things that have skipped down. Either things or people who skip down.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That's why it's called skip tracing.

[A]

And they've skipped out on their obligation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or they don't want to be found. They don't want to. They want to be. They want to go missing. Right. And so as a skip tracer, I've been able to cut corners and get things done faster and find things much faster than the normal PI. The Normal cop, the normal judicial system, the due process system. I'm like, okay, you want him? When do you need him? You know? And I will get on it.

[B]

As a journalist, I'm excited about. With this conversation because I want to learn from. From you. It seems like you have skills that I need as a journalist as well. But let's start from how you started all. How was it? You grew up in Texas, right?

[A]

I grew up in Texas.

[B]

Born and raised in Texas.

[A]

I was. Where do you want to go? Back to how I started. I.

[B]

Let's. Let's talk about your. Because what your parents actually did had an influence.

[A]

My mom and dad retired from IBM. Right. International Business Machines.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we had a good life. Yeah. My mom and dad were absent a lot due to travel and work. They were both engineers years. And in that. In that world, and we as kids, we. We lived a good life. We. We lived on skateboards, bikes, new things, you know, that was my kind of lifestyle.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And our play time at the house was. We would do models. My mom would buy us model toys to put together. I don't even know if they sell them anymore, but, like, model cars. And my brother was like, these cars are boring. Let's. They got to move. So my dad would bring home little motherboards and capacitors and resistors and little batteries and little power things, you know, and we knew how to solder. We knew how to solder at a very early age.

[B]

You learned how to put together a motherboard at a very early age. And you say that that actually is partly why you're now obsessed with figuring out how things work.

[A]

Right? Yeah.

[B]

Tell me about that.

[A]

When my dad would bring home motherboards and stuff, we would. You would say, you know, this thing doesn't work. It's dead.

[B]

Let's.

[A]

Let's. Let's get the lights on. Let's get the. Let's get the lights on. The LEDs on. I'm like, okay. And I would look at it. My dad was. I think I got after my dad. My dad was a. A tester at IBM. He would test motherboards and he would configure them and make sure that they would work and re. Remove the capacitors and the resistors and make sure everything was functioning according to the schematics. Yeah. And so I. I didn't need schematics. I'm like, let's. Let's figure this out. Let's do the power on this and let's do the power on that. And things would line up and I'M like, this is fun, you know, so we would start using those little motherboards and we would cut them up and put them in the little cars and the things would take off, you know, like, this is fun, you know. So my mom was like, okay, so this is entertaining. This is, this is good for them, you know. And that was our, that was our tablet, that was our toys, our electronic.

[B]

And then how did you get into this work?

[A]

When I was in, that was 20, I think 20 or 30. 30. I forgot. I'm already 56. When I was 30, I met this guy and I'm not going to mention his name. And we fell in love. Right. He put a ring on my finger and it changed and it went south. He hit me one time and I made sure justice got to him, you

[B]

know, Is it pretty early on in the relationship?

[A]

It was just, he was just a one time hit. I was trying to get him airline tickets for his daughter so that they can go visit or whatever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I got it. I was going to get it for free. And he was. All he had to do is pay for the buddy, buddy taxes. But buddy pass or whatever, $14 on Continental. And he hit me. And I had long, beautiful hair. He was very controlling after the ring out of my finger.

[B]

Controlling, yeah.

[A]

And things went south and there's so many details, but I had to wait a whole year to get him in the justice system. And Texas took care of him, you know, And I'm like, I pressed charges to the fullest extent. He learned his lesson and I went about my life and he went about his life. But during that time, I was working for Adrian Crane, a big personal injury law firm with staff of 26 attorneys. And he's no longer in business, so that's why I can mention him. What were you doing? I was a assistant.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

For big law firm.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I learned how to get, I knew how to gather information. And I'm like, this is, it came so easy for me because I, I can put things together just by looking at them and it's, it's like natural for me. I can see the picture where it needs to be. And I'm like, okay, this is what I need. This what I need. That's why when I go get information, I'm like, we going to take a shortcut and we're going to, we're going to, you know, we're going to get that within an hour. Like how it's going to take a week to get this FOIA request? Not for me, you know, I'm going to get it.

[B]

You know, we really need to work.

[A]

We need to get it. Yeah. So during that time, two weeks, my Adrian said, michelle, I'm going to give you two weeks off. Handle this guy. I don't want him calling the office. This is a professional, you know, setting. Handle your business. You'll have your job when you get back. Well, during that two weeks, I met this guy who was in the tow business. And I was very naive, smart in an engineering mindset, but I was very naive. I trusted.

[B]

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[A]

During that time, I met this guy named Russell. We're still friends like this. He was in the repossession business and I told him everything was going on and he says, look, let, let him, let your truck be where it needs to be. I already know where it's at. They're not going to charge you. You can use my car. And in the meanwhile we need a skip tracer. And I said, what the hell is that? That sounds illegal. You know, I don't want to do nothing illegal, you know. And he goes, no, I, I, are you open? Are you open minded? I'm like, yeah, I'm open minded. He goes, come with me. And so we go to this place and it's a yard full of trucks and trailers and all kinds of junk, junk cars. And I'm like, Russell, I don't have clothes for this kind of stuff, you know, I, I have business clothes, you know. He goes, just come in, just come in. I go in there and it's like ncic. I'm like, oh my God. This is like, this is it. This is my, this is my playground, you know. Beautiful. Don't ever judge a book by its cover. And that's that true right there. That's a true story.

[B]

So that day, it was a repossession.

[A]

It's an industry of reposition. The guy was a PI ex, military, special ops. I mean, this guy Brian was badass, you know, and I was going to be taught by him. So he gave Me, the first. You know, he was like, you know, this is what we do. This is what it's about. And I'm like, repossession. I'm like, what do you do? Like? He goes, I take cars. I repossess cars. I don't know if I could do this, you know, you're taking cars away from people that are trying to keep it, you know? And he goes, well, they can't pay. It's a business. And I'm like, I don't know. You know, it sounds like, unethical. He goes, no, this is a business. It's very ethical. It's very lawful. You know, everything's good. And like I said, I. I come from a different world. It's just a different world for me, you know? And I'm like. And I never had to work like that, you know, in that environment where you're. You're. You're negotiating things over the table that belong to somebody, right? But yet they can't keep it because they can't pay for it. And I didn't understand that world, okay? It was hard for me to comprehend that. So I said, let me consult with my father and see if this is okay, you know? He goes, well, let's. Let's do a run. Let's. Let's do a run. Let's see if you like this. That way you can go back to your father and see if it's okay. I said, okay. So he. He tries one. He tries an account. It didn't go good for him. He goes, you try this account. This is the backstory on this jacket. The. The vehicle. It's a van. It needs to be picked up. The father has passed away. No, her father has passed away, and the van is. She's harboring it. She doesn't want to give it up. She's always blocking it. We do know where the house is at, but she's always blocking it, and we can't get to it. I said, okay, what else? It's been gone for eight months, and we cannot get it. We need to get it. I say, okay, give me the number. Boom. I call it. And I'm like, little girl answers. I go, hi, is your mommy there? Who's this? I said, I need to speak with her. You know, you can't have a conversation with a child. That's one rule in the repossession under 18. I said, is your mommy there? Hold on. And then she calls the sister. There's a lady on the phone. Who is it? I don't Know, the other girl gets on the phone. She sounds like a teenager. She goes, hi, who's this? I said, I need to speak with your mother. She goes, my mom's getting dressed right now. Is this the florist? I said, yes. And I'm listening. I listen. My diamond dad always said, you need to listen before you talk.

[B]

That's a good one. Yeah.

[A]

And I said, okay. I said, yes, this is the florist. She goes, where are. Where. She immediately jumped into the conversation of, mom, where's grandpa? Where's grandpa being placed at? She sounds off, at the funeral house. I call it the funeral house. And I'm hearing. I'm talking, right? And Brian and the Russell are just looking at me like, oh, my God. This is. This is easy. Too easy for her. And I'm like, okay. I said, we'll be having the floors deliver. And so where's. Where's the burial lot going to be? Because there's going to be another set of flowers over there. Mom, where's grandpa going to be, you know, buried at? She gives that location, and I'm like, okay, thank you very much. Boom. Hung up. Russell goes, let's go get it. And I'm like, no, you're not. You're not going to get that during bereavement. You're not going to do that. God's going to punish you, you know? He goes, no, Michelle, we've been after this car for us, and no, I'm not gonna do this. This is not okay. I said, I start crying. I'm like, this is. This is in the bereavement. She just lost a family member. You're gonna take away their car? I said, this is not for me. You know, y' all gonna go to hell. You know? And he goes, no, Michelle, this is a business, and this is what we get paid for. I said, I need to call my dad. And my dad goes, I love your

[B]

relationship with your dad.

[A]

I said, dad, these people want to steal people's cars. He goes, they're not stealing, Michelle. They're just. This is the business, you know? And I said, this is what I did. And it happened so fast. It was Michelle. And you have ability to listen. You document, and you just go with it. And if that's what they need, then that's what they need to get these cars. Because people, when they're pissed off and their car's about to be taken, they are rebellious. They don't want to be, no, you can't do this. You can't do that. I Can't pay. I can't do this. You have to listen. So I learned to be compassionate, and I become friends with all my debtors. Wow. When I was in the repossession, I worked for Rush, Kubota, Freightliner, Mac. I was a contractor with all of them.

[B]

These are all repossession companies?

[A]

Yeah, financial institutions for the big. For the big asset. That's why I was able to get the big yacht with Ryan Mullins. That's how I ended up.

[B]

Want to talk about the Ryan Mullins case as well? That is so interesting. I have so many great questions. So you did end up then going to repossess this fan during the funeral

[A]

on Funeral Day Part 2.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I said, russell, we'll go. I'm going with you and I'm going to coordinate everything, you know. So we went. And I'm like, you need to pay respects, Russell, but let's just wait till they bury him, you know, Because I said, this is not okay. I don't even feel comfortable with this. We're going to get shot, you know, or something. He goes, no, we're not going to get shot. We'll just do it when we're at the house. And. Okay. So she was. They were all going to gather at the house. The car, the van was not blocked by any other family members or nothing like that. It was just a day. And they went in and we got it. And I was in the tow truck, and I'm like, I now I saw the full completion of how this works. And then a few days later, she calls and says, I need to get my personal effects and stuff like that.

[B]

And that's in the car?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And was she so sad?

[A]

I'm sure she was upset. She was upset. Bill was. She had, like, owed Silver 7, $8,000. And they didn't have the money, but they had a life insurance plan. And I mitigated that. And I said, look, you don't have any money left over for a life insurance plan. You know, this is the last thing you have of your. Your grandfather. She goes, yeah, we have money left over. I said, look, call the bank and you tell them that you want to pay for this off and you're going to pay for the repossession fees, but if it's. That's all you have left.

[B]

And then she could keep the van again.

[A]

She could keep the van and zero balance.

[B]

I love that you learned to be

[A]

compassionate about these people. And I became friends with almost every debtor.

[B]

That is incredible.

[A]

And I networked through them. Some of them have good, good connections. And I'm like, I'll help you with this.

[B]

So it wasn't your job to in that situation try to figure out a way for her to pay that money back because you. By having the van talking, but communication.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But it was because you felt.

[A]

I felt bad. You know. And on both ends I'm like this is a rough business, you know. But the business exists for a reason and it's money.

[B]

Yeah. So it's, it brings me. I want to talk a lot more about your work because you then you went from being working in repossession to

[A]

actually working in bigger cases specialties after the year. Yeah, because that was during my case with, with the guy that hit me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I had to stay there in that county, Tarrant county, to make sure that he got prosecuted.

[B]

Okay, wait, wait. Before we go there, one thing I wanted to ask is because a lot of people that listen to this show mostly listen and don't watch it even though there's a video component. But I want you to describe what you look like physically because you do not look like a bounty hunter or a skip dresser.

[A]

When I first started I had long hair.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In a braid. Very. In jeans. Converse. I wear Converse all the time. Not today. I'm very humble, very relaxed.

[B]

How tall are you?

[A]

411 right now. Weigh 98.9 but 100 pounds.

[B]

Super bubbly, awesome personality. What do you think is it that about you that makes you a kip tracer because you are not your typical. The skip. Typical skip tracer.

[A]

I listen, I look at your behavior. I look, I analyze you immediately. But do you think that I don't judge you?

[B]

Do you think the fact you being. I get asked this question a lot because I work in a male dominated field. Do you think and surround usually surrounded by men in black markets which is very much similar world in which you live in as well. You know, looking for fugitives and whatnot. Do you think that the. Being a woman helps you in the work that you do?

[A]

And my, my, my physique. I get along good. I had. When I was young I had more guy friends and girlfriends. I don't know if I was intimidating by them or what, but I got along with guys because I was always on the bike and I knew I was very tough. I would jump ramps or hurt my knees, break my arm. I would, I would play football. I would do things that were tough.

[B]

You know, I heard you say that you run really fast too. Sometimes when you have to run after

[A]

these people, I'm gone. If I. These will be off my feet, and I'll be, like, crawling.

[B]

Lewis, my. These are looking at your very cute little slipper, like, shoes that you're wearing. So you'll be in your Converse, running.

[A]

Oh, yeah. People. I'm always very comfortable. I was gonna wear tennis shoes today. I'm like, I'm in California. I don't know the scene. You know, I feel very safe with Alicia.

[B]

And Alicia's your friend who's at the studio.

[A]

Yeah. And I'm like, I need to. My husband's like, well, wear tennis shoes. You're always comfortable in tennis shoes. Yeah. I asked what I got on the plane with, you know, I said, yeah, they're gonna happen.

[B]

I think one of the reasons why you're probably. Certainly why I think I'm good at what I do, why being a woman helps me, is that women are often underestimated. Right. So people don't expect much from us. And we're also very empathetic. We tend to be to perhaps have more compassion for people and emotional.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you. Do you agree with that, that that helps you, too?

[A]

Yeah. But I also look at their circumstances. I'm like, okay, what happened along the way that you're in this situation? And so I'm like, okay, I need to help you. I'm gonna help you one way. And I don't look at a benefit as me helping me. I'm finding out a way I can help you, not so that I can feel good, but to make your life better. And if I need to do it, I'm gonna move mountains for you, even if I don't know you.

[B]

Yeah. Michelle, again, this is. I think people probably realize this, but this is not what you expect when you think. Think of a skip tracer or bounty hunter. Like, you think of Dog the bounty hunter.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

What's his name? The guy who's like a dogman. Dwayne something. Yes. So these are not attributes that you usually associate.

[A]

I do not wear gear. Nothing spiky or nothing black. I.

[B]

What do you wear, by the way? Like, what's your typical. What do you. When you go to these.

[A]

I go to. When I get into the environment, I look at the jacket and see what I'm looking at, what the jacket is, the case.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I go in there, I'm like, okay, I know their colors. I know what their favorite color is, what their favorite food is, how they speak, what their dog's name is, their cat name is. I know their nicknames. I know everything because I've already done a deep dive. I'm like, okay, so they're going to be at this outlet. I'm going to wear my flip flops. I'm going to wear a little sunglasses. And I'm going to go in here and I'm going to sell cookies, and I'm going to get a hold of this person, my main subject, and I'm going to have a. I'm going to have a talk with them and I'm going to come. I'm going to get close to them and make contact, and I'm going to be their friend today.

[B]

So it's. There's a lot of social engineering, right? Pretending you're somebody you're not instead of using the tablet.

[A]

I've already done my deep dive online and found whatever I need to find. Now it's time to get up close and personal.

[B]

That is so cool.

[A]

And look at them.

[B]

That is amazing. Who have you pretended to be?

[A]

Girl Scout cookie seller? I lost my cat and lost my dog. Selling this and selling that. Garage sales free. I'll give away free stuff and I'll go and say, hey, I'm giving away these free flyers for free this and free that. And I'll go buy, like, things like at Subway and. Or, you know, cookies or whatever. And I'll coupons, like, hey, go, we're giving away free coupons. Or this and that. This and that. And I'll go straight to my target. I'm like, hi.

[B]

And then you start talking.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Wow.

[B]

And also FedEx, UPS.

[A]

I don't mess with mail.

[B]

Okay? Not mail. Okay.

[A]

I do have little coupons and say, hey, you know, you need to contact so and so your package has been delivered over here.

[B]

And fake coupons, I guess, or fake.

[A]

But I'll never intervene with any kind of federal mail. Any kind of thing is illegal. No, that's illegal. A pretexting of anything that's. I don't need to pretext because I already know my client. I already know my subject.

[B]

So do you have a bunch of disguises at home?

[A]

Huh? I have wigs.

[B]

What's the favorite, Your favorite disguise that you've ever worn?

[A]

I pretend blonde hair.

[B]

I pretended to be a sex worker once, which was fun.

[A]

I did, too. Did you? With a red dress. It looked like, so crazy.

[B]

Okay, tell me more.

[A]

I. I got this guy. Okay. It was funny because we were in Texas. I was in Texas and I got a call from North Carolina. Since Michelle got a jumper, I'm like, okay, what does he do, you know, he goes, he's a salsa guy. And he gave me all this. He gave me the whole backstory. I said, send it to me. He sent it to me. I was in my pajamas at the house talking to this guy on my other trap line. Trap line's another phone. Yeah. I had a 561 area code. I had to build that one. And you build it. And I called him and I said, oh, yeah, get to us, you know? And he goes, guinness. I said, mariela. You know, I would come up with themes off the black, you know, and. And he goes, I see. See? And I'm like, we're going to meet today. Oh, yeah. I said, cvs. I already had the whole area mapped out.

[B]

Who did he think you were?

[A]

Mariela, the girl that he was meeting online.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Because I was working him. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So you knew that he was doing this.

[A]

He was looking for girls profile on Facebook. I had everything ready. I had him squared and pegged.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm like, okay, we're going to be at CVS.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is all within five, six hours. I got a call at midnight. No, around 10 o' clock my time. It was 11 o', clock, North Carolina time. And I had that guy by 6 o' clock in the morning.

[B]

Holy shit. That's incredible.

[A]

And he was all in white. Oh, this is so funny. So I had the. The fugitive. The bounty hunters were already in. In that area.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I said, I have a location for him. He's gonna be at the CVS at this area. Really? I said, yep. Be there. It was a guy and a girl. They were paired up, and I was in my pajamas at the house. I had him going. And I'm like, I'll be at the cvs. I'll be wearing a red dress, and I'll be in my Mini Cooper. I did have a Mini Cooper at the time, a red one. He goes, oh, really? I said, see, I'll be ready for you. Boom. We're gonna go here. We're gonna go to a salsa club near the area. He goes, all right. He shows up in a blue Honda, all in white, dark, complected Cuban guy. No, Puerto Rican. Who's Puerto Rican? And the guys go, I see him. You know, they're like. I said, well, calm down. Don't get him yet. Just let him go inside. When he comes out, he's not going to expect it. Let him go and let him go into cvs. I told him that I was going to be there shortly. So he's like pacing back and forth, waiting for me. And I said, I'm there. I wasn't even there yet. You know, I wasn't even there virtually. And he's like on the task. I said, and I said, when he looks confused, that's when you go get him.

[B]

Oh, good.

[A]

And they got him. And they're like, we got him. Thank you. Michelle.

[B]

You didn't even have to show up with your original.

[A]

Tom was at home watching everything. You know, the girl was videotaping me on what's up? You know, everything was done like virtual. She goes, michelle, you are amazing.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

And this guy fell in my hands so easily. Wow. And then I time did in Miami, we did an intern fraud. I was in a red dress. Yeah. And little, you know, hard, hard to walk in heels. Very uncomfortable. But when I needed to run, I took them damn things off and I was gone, you know. And we got the guy I was working under another pocket card and that was. I was training.

[B]

And you, you were also pretending to be a sex worker in that one when you were wearing the red dress.

[A]

And that was very sleep. Just uncomfortable.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Cuz I don't know that line of world.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's. That world is totally different. Yeah. You know.

[B]

Yeah. It's scary.

[A]

It's unpredictable.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You don't know who's watching you. You don't know. You don't know anything.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're there on your own. I had my gun strapped in and I was ready to go.

[B]

Wow. Yeah. I'll tell you about my story. My. When I dressed up as a sex worker, we were doing a story about sex trafficking. And we were trying to show how in Vegas, a lot of these escort services that they say they. They don't allow for sex or they don't. Because sex work is illegal in Vegas. It's allowed in Nevada, but not in ve Vegas. It's a family town. That's how they sell it. And they. But I wanted to go into some of these escort services, the offices and apply and pretend I was applying for a job and then ask them about sex work and see how open they would be. And so, yeah, I also had to put on my high heels and dress.

[A]

You know, and then this conversation, the lingo, the verbiage, these girls have.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Vocabulary.

[B]

And I remember I was. I was wearing a secret camera. I was super nervous. My husband was in the car. I was. When I was still working with my husband in the field and he was filming from the car. Just me going into the building. I go into this building and every single room in this, like, long corridor. A lot of them, we'd been told, are actual escort services, or at least that's the. The sort of offices. And, yeah, I sat down for an interview, and five, I pretended I was Brazilian, that I'd worked in a strip club before, and they offered me a job. And then I started asking questions about sex work. And it was great because we got. I got all the answers that I needed to get. I mean, they talked about how I'll get paid a lot more if I, in fact, do have sex with the clients, which, again, is illegal. So I just. I remember walking out and making sure that my husband could hear everything and. And then being so excited that I got the job because I thought it could have been terrible on national television

[A]

if they had said, no, sorry, you're not. You're not pretty. Yeah.

[B]

But golly, I was also, like, already 40 something.

[A]

I was, like, so excited.

[B]

Yes, I got.

[A]

I still got it. Yeah. I get carded when I like to movies. Like, yeah, you're like, oh, I'm 50 years old. You know, like, let me see. So I would.

[B]

You look so young.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which also probably works in your. Oh, yeah.

[A]

And, you know, like, I. I don't always wear. You know, I'm very comfortable.

[B]

So go back to where you went from repossession to being more of a. Looking for people and how you're the person that you were.

[A]

So after I left Texas state specialties, I get a call from a PI

[B]

Wait, this has to do with the person that hit you and you had to stay in town. Tell me that story.

[A]

Right after that, after that whole situation, the whole year, and it got processed and he had a. He got justice.

[B]

Okay, good.

[A]

I left Texas state specialties. I said, okay, I'm done. The years as a skip tracer here. I'm done. I'm going back home. Because I didn't want my daughter to see what was going on in my. In that turbulent time. So she was with her father, and he's passed away. She was with her father and staying with my mom and my dad and I would go every weekend. So Monday through Friday I would be in Arlington, and then Saturday and Sunday I would go in. Friday I would leave and go be with my daughter and come back until this whole justice thing was over. Because I had to go and deal with the D. A. And make sure that he got prosecuted. And sometimes they would say, she wants to, you know, you want to release the charges? I'm like, no, I'm going to press charges. 100. And he's going to learn his lesson. You do not do that. Yeah. No woman or no man should be hit because there's women that are violent, you know, they'll beat the hell out of their husbands, you know, or boyfriends.

[B]

Yeah. No one should be.

[A]

No, no. Hands off. And so that was over. I left Texas State Specialties, and I went home to Lockhart, and I was relaxed, you know, I'm like, okay, everything's good. Everything's done. I get a call in January or February, and I get this guy named Joe Burleson, and we're still friends. And he's like, hey, I'm so and so. Ford has called me to look for you. And we need four. We need three or four F350s. F450s. Picked up with. With. With trailers with car carriers. I'm like, I'm not in that business anymore. I'm not. I don't do skip tracing. I don't. I don't work for Texas State. Specialty goes, nope. The owner gave us your number, and he is on the phone with us. So I'm like, hello, Brian? He goes, yeah. He goes, michelle, I'm going to sponsor you. Go get what you need to get, and I suggest you open up your own company called Unlimited Recoveries.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And I'm like, what the hell is that? You know? He goes, that's going to be your new dba. And I said, I don't know anything about business. You know, I don't. This is. This is not. I'm not ready for that. You know, I didn't. I had no idea that my potential was that big. Well, Ford wanted me to go get those. Those trucks, and so I found them within. I found him before the day was over. And it was easy. It was like a natural talent for me. And I had those trucks locked up and secured. I already had them located and everything.

[B]

So you started with cars, and then what was your first case? That was with where you were looking for a person.

[A]

All. The first case. Well, during the repossession, do you look for these people? It's the same. It goes hand in hand.

[B]

These people. You have to find the people to find the cars.

[A]

One of the biggest cases was when I first was starting was twins. I had to go find these two. I had to go find these two twins that turned to be boys, but they were girls.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

And they switched plates from car to car, and they switched their identities. That was the most difficult case in San Antonio. This car dealership Said, I need for you to find this car. And I'm dealing. I don't know what I'm dealing with. I'm like, what are you dealing with? He goes, I sold it to a girl, but a guy's driving it. And I'm like, well, maybe they have a brother. And I'm like, okay, it's time to go play surveillance on the streets. I have to go and sit at this house. And I'm like, okay, I got to get parked this way because the house is there. They have a few cars. They always park it in. You know, they always have it hidden from other cars. So I'm going to have to watch it. And I watched it for two, three days. And finally I saw that she was a night hooker. She was dancer. And so a boy would get in, a girl would come out, and I would follow the car. And I went to the place in San Antonio where she was dancing. I'm like, oh, my God. It's. It's the same person. Two different personalities, two different lifestyles, right? Okay, we're good. Now. We can get it at the. At the. At the place where she dances. So I'm like, okay. I got. I had. I. It was. It was a three day, 72 hour situation. I got the tow guy. I said, go pick up that car right there. I checked the van.

[B]

So it was. It wasn't twins. It was one person.

[A]

It was one person. And we thought it was twins. We thought, you know, because we didn't know the man when we. When he gave me the case, he goes, I'm dealing. Somebody's driving this. I think they're twins. And I'm like, what do you mean? But see, a dealership and their agents are not. Are not supposed to go and go repossess that vehicle back. It's against the law. They have to go higher out.

[B]

Okay, that's where you come in.

[A]

Yeah, they have to hire out. So as a skip tracer, I went to go and deal with that. And then I said, okay, I'm gonna hire a tow truck. So I got the dealership to hire the tow truck legally. I said, y' all deal with Yalls insurance and do what y' all need to do. This is where the vehicle's at, and you'll get it, and I'll make sure you get it. So I videotape everything and assure that the client, which is my dealership, gets his vehicle back. And that's what happened. And there. There are situations where people change their. Their. Their whole. They have two. Two Lives, two identities, they change.

[B]

Yeah. And actually that brings me to the Ryan Mullen's case. Mullen case. Right. Because he was. Okay, tell me about Ryan Mullen. And also he was. He had several different identities. Right. Which is why it was.

[A]

He.

[B]

He.

[A]

He changed his names, his variate. He variated his names. Just put it that way. One person variation. But he knew how to camouflage himself within different lifestyles. Rich. Just camouflage himself in.

[B]

So tell me first who he is and then also tell me how you came case as a skip tracer.

[A]

This was before 2014, when I became licensed Texas P.I.

[B]

huh.

[A]

I was a skip tracer. Like, again, working as a contractor for big corporations. And as a contractor is legal. You don't have to be licensed. You're employed by each outfit. Right. So when I went after Ryan Mullen, a collective agency, alternative collections, reached out to me, and I was already helping them with other cases as a skip tracer. Here you go, here you go, here you go. I would find them like eggs. And this one was a big one. This was like, this is a big one. Michelle, we need a yacht. I said, oh, my God.

[B]

You know, so they were looking for a yacht.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To repossess a yacht.

[A]

Yeah. They wanted the yacht because apparently this guy had lied to the bank, made fake checks, and this was. I mean, they. This guy had everybody confused that they didn't know where to even start. They're like, here you go. Here's the jacket. Figure it out. Right.

[B]

And he was a mess. He was a scammer. A fraudster.

[A]

Yeah, he was a fraudster 100%.

[B]

And they were trying to get the yacht so they could repay some of his debts, Right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And he was able. The check was fraud. Everything he did and presented to these people. Financial statements, fraud.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Made up. Right.

[B]

So he would. I was reading about this case because of your involvement in it, but he was. He was. He's. He would present him himself. He'd have different identities, but usually he'd present himself as a very, very wealthy man. I mean, the typical fraudster, Right. Very wealthy, who's interested in doing some sort of business deal with you. And then he starts. He. He even gets people to pretend to be his bankers.

[A]

Y to. And he would make calls from the bank.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because he would say, oh, my phone's not working. Can I use your phone number? So he would be like, this is the credit department. Yes. So and so. Okay, okay. He would be the person to Actually

[B]

calling from the bank. Yes.

[A]

Confirmed.

[B]

Pretending that he was somebody that worked at the bank and telling the people that he was trying to swindle.

[A]

Are you even trying to call me? Yes. Yes. I'm the so and so. Yes, he. Ryan Mullen is a very good customer.

[B]

He has hundreds of thousands in our bank.

[A]

Good to go. He's a great client. Boom, confirmed. And then he gets a call from the person that he's trying to get the money from. Hey, everything's good. We just got a call from the bank. You're good to go. Yeah. Come get it.

[B]

So. Yes. Your catch me if you can character as they come.

[A]

And he said that his favorite movie,

[B]

of course his mama told me.

[A]

His mommy actually told me. She called me. She. I think she already passed away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But she called me and she goes, I need for you to get him and put him away.

[B]

Okay, so tell me. Yeah. So then you started looking into this jacket, this case, and realized this guy is insane.

[A]

Yeah, it was exciting. Yeah. At that time, I get a call from Randall Sullivan, the one and only Randall Sullivan, the one who wrote the article.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And he says, hi, I'm so and so Randall Sullivan. And I'm like, okay. And I've gotten offers and calls before from other people and writers and stuff like that, but that lifestyle didn't interest me. And I'm like, we're gonna help you. You know? He goes, I wanna. I go, I've been. I'm so and so. I'm Randall Sullivan. I've called and around and they. I'm looking for a skip tracer because I'm writing a book or writing something or article. I said, well, you wanna. You wanna be. You wanna do this for real? I said, I'm going to New Orleans. I'm gonna be there in about two days. Really? I said, yep. This is the case. Right?

[B]

So this was a writer who wanted to do a story about you and was then following you around during your cases. And it happened to be exactly at the time that you were doing.

[A]

Perfect timing. The God knows his ways.

[B]

Right?

[A]

I said, okay, well, I'm gonna be. Enola, I'm leaving already in two days. I'm going after this guy. This is. This isn't it? You know, I give him the whole scheme scoop. He goes, I'll be there. He was there before me. So I drive with my security.

[B]

And I went, oh, you were traveling with security?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I went, do you always travel with security?

[A]

Sometimes and sometimes I don't because I'm. I'm really. I have dea. I have a lot of network contacts. I have a big network so why does it. If I go, I go. Like, I don't. I don't like the attention, right. If I need to go and do a, you know, recon, I'm going to go and check it out. Out and say, okay, I'm gonna need two or three eyes with me, right? And I need somebody to deflect attention from me. So either I'm gonna go and sell Chiclets. I'm gonna go do this. I'm gonna sell my kitty cat with me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm gonna have something to distract. Yeah.

[B]

And that is important to have security, because you never know.

[A]

Right.

[B]

These people can be armed. They can be. They're usually angry at in this situation. So you never know. Right. Okay, so you got. You guys. You got your security. You're driving down.

[A]

And I go to Nova, and I already have my triangle set out. I already did all my skip work, and I'm like, I'm gonna get this guy. And then I get a call from the U.S. marshals, Mr. Chesby. He goes, gomez, when you get this guy, I want to get him. I need to get him arrested. I said, for what? For a boat? He goes, no, he's wanted by the government. I said, I didn't know that. You know, I had no idea. On this other side of the jacket, right? And I go, what's going on? He goes, he stole $2 million from the government. He's. He's wanted. We need to get him. He goes, well, I'm going to be. I'm going to Marathon. I said, to the Keys. He goes, yeah, that's where he's going. I said, good luck. He's not there. Why not? I said, he's not there. I already call harbor. I call harbor police. I know he's not there. So you're ready. I already knew his printing, right? I had the guy, the printing, the toe guy. I had his finance, and I had already. All them already squared. What? You know, And I got a hold of the finance guy, and I. When I got a hold of him, I threatened him. I said, look, you're gonna go down with him. You either be a good father that you are. I said, I know you're Catholic. I said, and I know your daughter's sick. I said, so if you want to live to see your daughter live and not be in jail, you better start talking. Wow.

[B]

So this was a guy. He was his partner.

[A]

Basically, one of his partners. Three legs. Legs, okay? A scammer will always have three legs, and they work in triangles, huh? You will never do this alone, huh? It's impossible unless you're super badass. But a scammer will have a triangle, and it's compromised of a triangle. You got your feet, you got your finance, and you got your. Your movers.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

And your main one is in the middle, huh? And that's Ron Mullen.

[B]

Okay. And so you got a hold of this guy?

[A]

I got a hold of the guy, and I looked at him. He had me going in circles, and I saw a rosary on his. On his. On his rearview mirror. And I knew he was going to the hospital to see his daughter because she was dying and she was a little girl. I said, you're Catholic, right? He goes, yep. I said, well, I'm Catholic, too. I said, and you need to think long and hard before you make your next move. I said, because if you want to see your daughter live and you want to see her prosper and get out of this situation that she's in medically, I suggest you be a good father and you. You think on this really good. I said, because you're going down today. If I go get Mullen, he had me go a whole hour and a half in circles.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

He wanted Mullen to get away.

[B]

Oh. He was trying to divert the time

[A]

so that I could lose him. Right. Well, we. Me and Randall hauled ass to that location, and we found him. Him.

[B]

Wow. And he was in a big mansion.

[A]

He was in a big, huge, beautiful white plantation in the back. Had another boathouse.

[B]

Right.

[A]

His big boat was secured with ropes and everything. And he was already unleashing to leave. To leave on the Bayou Tech.

[B]

Right? And he was. That. That plantation and that big, beautiful house was owned by another guy called Mr. Gary Bloom, who. He was trying to swindle us off.

[A]

Well.

[B]

Right. He had convinced this rich man that he was also very rich and he was trying to steal money. Essentially.

[A]

He had something to do with banks in Florida. He's the owner of banks or something like that.

[B]

Right. I remember the description when I was reading the article. This guy Bloom was then quoted like that. This. That Ryan Mullen would present himself as being really knowledgeable, as having, like, dozens of Rolls Royces which are worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, and that he also. He got a call from the banker pretending to be, which was actually Ryan Mullen himself.

[A]

You're a banker?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How can you have been swindled? He goes, michelle, it's the conversation. He knew the words. That's how we talk.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And I'm like, okay, well, like every scammer they know the lingo. Yeah. And it's too good to be true.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he was going to buy that

[B]

plantation from him, or pretend.

[A]

Ryan was pretending he was. Two other. Two other big plantations right down the street, you know, Gary Bloom, well off, Right. And when I get a hold of, you know, Ryan Mullen, I approach him. I'm in shorts. Oh, wow. Flip flops. It was so funny. The. The plantation police. I call them the plantation police in that area. They were in these, like, Gomer pile dumps. Jumpers. Like, they were gonna. Like. They look like airmen. I'm like, where are y' all going? You know? And it was just so funny to me. And I'm like. He goes, who are you? I said, I. Here's my paperwork. Here's the. The warrant, you know, here's this and here's that. Give him all the documentation. I said, he goes, let us get ready. I'm like, you're not ready. You're a policeman. You're supposed to be ready all the time. You're. This is your job. You know, they were in their little gears, and they all come and they come, and there's, like, an army man coming to the. To the property. And I was. Already had this guy, you know, I had. What do you call it when they deputize me? Yeah. He goes, you're deputized. I read him his rights. He goes, who the hell are you? You know, like.

[B]

So, wait, where was he when you first arrived?

[A]

Where? He was on the. On the. On the deck.

[B]

He was just sitting on the deck?

[A]

No, he had the string, the. The rope unleashing the boat.

[B]

Oh, he was ready to go, right?

[A]

He was ready to go. And I did. I got deputized. I read him his rights. Wow. And Randall filmed it.

[B]

And he said, who the hell are you, and what the hell are you?

[A]

You know, like, I'm this little tiny girl with this guy. He's a big guy. He had a dog with him. And I said, are you Ryan Patrick Mullen? He goes, no. And I had my. My binder out. I showed him his photo. He goes, that's me, but that's not my name. I'm like, whatever your name is. I said, I know you ran, Patrick Mullen. I said, you're under arrest. And then that's when the police came. Wow. And they were all running towards it, you know, and they. They handcuffed him, and. And they did their thing.

[B]

That is incredible.

[A]

They wouldn't let me board the boat until it was cleared.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He had a parrot Dogs and cats. What else did he have? Dogs and cats and parrots.

[B]

I actually, for some reason wrote this down because I thought it was amazing,

[A]

but it was nasty in there.

[B]

Yeah. He was taken away. This was from the article about. He was taken away along with the five animals on board the yacht. Two chihuahuas, a pair of cats, and a magnificent green parrot. Yes, the bird was. This is so funny. As the bird was carried off in its cage, it amused the growing crowd by repeating again and again the two phrases it knew best, which were Kill em all and Where's Mullen?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So he had been trained by Mullen himself to. To the parrot to repeat this.

[A]

Kill them all. Where is Mullen? Kill them all. Do you remember hearing this? It was funny. I'm like, what do you have to do with the bird? Because I love animals. I'm like, I can. You know, I'll rescue the animals. Like, no, we can't.

[B]

They gotta.

[A]

They're gonna go to a shelter, you know. And I'm like, okay. Well, it is.

[B]

What a character. Is he still in prison?

[A]

Yeah, he barely went to prison for another big scheme that was going on.

[B]

No way.

[A]

Louisiana is so corrupt. The politicians, everything. There's a lot more to it than just that.

[B]

Yeah. So, I mean, and this was a case that law enforcement. He had been. He'd eluded law enforcement for years. And you within a few days because

[A]

he had politician police.

[B]

Was that why he was being protected by politicians? Why?

[A]

What were they?

[B]

What is he?

[A]

Sex, money, kids, little girls. And I have one of. On one of my phones that I still have from him, I have a box full of Mullen.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like memoir. Picture of text messages saying, how much is she worth? She goes. She had blue eyes, blonde hair. Yeah. She's a baby.

[B]

Worse than his camera. He was a predator and a sex traffic. Did he do in time in prison for that as well?

[A]

I don't think so. I think it's just for fraud.

[B]

Were any of the politicians ever.

[A]

No, but I want to go after. I want to go deep and get those politicians. I know it's based on a lot of corruption, a lot of money. There's girls that have been harmed, and I know that if I find them, they're going to talk.

[B]

Yeah. We should definitely look into this. Crazy. So you. So this was a case. Yeah. Everybody was trying to find this guy. You did, and. And then Wired ended up actually writing this article about you. What happened after?

[A]

My life changed. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, my God. And then I. I started like, getting all these calls, and then. Oh, and then just so many things happen. And I'm like, what is going on? This is. This was. This is something big.

[B]

You know, this article comes out, you start getting a lot more, even more fraction.

[A]

I mean, and there's people from all over the world calling me, news people. I get calls from big millionaires, like, I need this found. I need that found. And I'm like, hold your horses, you

[B]

know, which actually brings me to the case that brought us together when I came.

[A]

When they came to that. I get a. I get an email from Mark. I forgot what year I. I still have it in my Gmail. And I'm reading this and I'm like, oh, my God.

[B]

So this is Mark one. He was.

[A]

Mark. Mr. Belgium.

[B]

Yeah, Mr. Belgium. It was a Belgium.

[A]

Mr. Belgium.

[B]

Because he's a Belgium citizen who had been swindled by this guy. Hundreds of thousands of dollars by Alex. And so you get an email from. From Mark. I got an email from Mark as well, which is how we got connected. And. And he says that he needs you to find this guy.

[A]

He needs help.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm reading it and reading it and I read it over again, and I. I highlight what I need to highlight, and I'm like, okay, my basic thing is, who's this person? And I always. I always do a background on my. My client, you know, to see who they are. Is this. Is this a real outreach, you know, is this a real help? They seeking help for real? What is going on? Or are they trying to. Because they always tell me, you need to be careful who's trying to reach out to you, because they want to try to get close to you, to harm you. So I have to be careful with that, too. Yeah.

[B]

And you need to make sure also that this is not just like a revenge. Right. Somebody tries to get revenge out of somebody else for no reason, Right?

[A]

Yeah. And so this was very authentic. And I'm like, okay, Alex, George's toneus, he's a prince of Dubai. Okay? This guy had pictures of himself in white gear on horses, Lamborghinis, you know, Ferraris. And he was living the life. And I found out where he was living, who he was living with, and I had him squared pegged, you know, And I'm like, okay, this guy is. Is. And I'm like, this is just one guy. Well, Mark says, I have other people. I said, okay, well, get them to send me their inquiries as to what. How they got scammed. Right. Each one had a different scam. Each one was swindled by Alex in a different manner. Tell me the different logistics. Yeah, tell me the way by the logistics. And import. The import export business, the design business, the Superman drink.

[B]

So these are all things that he pretended he was involved in and get

[A]

people to invest in the companies. Right. Shell companies.

[B]

And he'd get people to invest. But then it was almost like a pyramid scheme. Right. There was no actual money.

[A]

They're all shell company.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Had no money in them.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And he went after them and he. Every one of them had a fake financial statement, built dollars and cents and everything. Everything looked perfect. Especially for a businessman to be in that business knowing about wealth and money and movement and the. Everything was picture perfect.

[B]

Yeah, I remember the Superman drink. So this was something that he convinced a scientist. Right. A doctor.

[A]

A doctor.

[B]

Local doctor. He was living in San Antonio, which is why in. He became sort of the prince of San Antonio. The Dubai. The prince from Dubai who is now living in San Antonio. Yeah, the prince of San Antonio. Because he was pretending to be this big prince. Very, very wealthy.

[A]

A diplomat.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, a diplomat. He had photos of him in sort of all luxury environments, private planes and expensive cars and all that.

[A]

Sheiks.

[B]

Yeah. And he would drive an expensive car with sheiks. Exactly. And so people thought, okay, there's this guy with this like Dubai money who's like willing to. With millions or billions behind him and willing to invest in us and in our businesses. And so he had convinced this local doctor, very well respected doctor, to get involved in this business for this energy. Right.

[A]

Was.

[B]

He's an energy drink that was also healthy and healthy. And the poor doctor for.

[A]

I think for some kind of athletic stuff going on, like for rehabilitation. Right, right. Yeah.

[B]

And the poor doctor actually got a lot of his own patients and close friends involved in putting money into this. And it was nothing. It was a nothing burger.

[A]

Empty.

[B]

Right. And so he had swindled the doctor. He had swindled a lot of wealthy people around. And then he was.

[A]

And they're all connected. Yeah.

[B]

And also he married. Tell me about his female relationships.

[A]

He married. I don't know if I should bring her name up.

[B]

Maybe not. But just say he married somebody.

[A]

He married a very beautiful girl.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And who's also successful.

[B]

She's very successful in her own work.

[A]

She's from Honduras.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And she. He married her. She had a daughter with him. And we're not going to mention the baby's name. And he swindled people in the neighborhood in the. Where they lived. Saying that she was sick. Like. And she. And I still have not met her. I still have not met her, but

[B]

we're like, I haven't met her because I've spoken.

[A]

And they're all close to me, right. They're like, she's in San Antonio. She's like 45 minutes away from me, and I haven't met none of them yet. Because we're gonna go after the mom and the dad and all the family. Right.

[B]

Because it turns out that Alex's family, his mom, dad, brothers, are all involved.

[A]

Yeah. He left her in destitute. Right. To his wife. His ex. Wife life. And she. He had made up a lie. This was one of the big ones. That she was dying of cancer and he had borrowed money from a lot of people in the neighborhood. And she was wondering why these friends did not come around. Right.

[B]

And this. Wait. And this is not. This is the wife that. He's. This successful Honduran woman who's living in San Antonio. He was telling people that she was dying of cancer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she would go out on the street and people were looking at her weird, and she couldn't figure out why. And everybody thought that she was dying of cancer.

[A]

And finally one of them said, hey, hey, I. I need to speak to you about the money that he borrowed. She goes, what money? Borrow for what? Well, because of your treatment. She's like, what treatment?

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Because your. Your treatment for your cancer. That is what saying, I'm not dying of cancer. I don't have cancer. What are you talking about? And so that's. And people. She said people were telling her, Alex is fraud. Alex is this. And she would not believe it for nothing because she was. Her husband. Yeah. You know, and she's a faithful person. She said that's the. The. The rude awakening that took place because people were not coming. Her friends that she knew were not coming to her because they felt sympathy and they felt sorry for her. They wanted her rest.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And because she was dying. Yeah.

[B]

That is so nuts. I mean, the extent.

[A]

And Alex was strategic in keeping the friends away, the ones that he borrowed money from. From her. Yeah. To reveal the truth.

[B]

Where do you think this was all going?

[A]

Like he was. Yeah, he was spreading the wealth.

[B]

But do you think he thought. He actually thought he was gonna get caught? Because he eventually did get caught, and partly because of the work you did. And then he's. He's now in prison.

[A]

Yeah. I blasted him everywhere. I was even in New York news. The guy that actually helped me get on the news in New York.

[B]

The business.

[A]

Business New York. I was on the big old radio thing that got taken down because, oh, this is going to be good. So. And I can go so many ways with this because this is so many people involved with this case. He had an ex, an ex FBI agent, Toletta Copeland, involved. She was on the XX ride, she was the manager.

[B]

Because he had a relationship with her. Right. Actual.

[A]

She fell in love with him. Yeah.

[B]

And he had women all over the US that fell in love with him.

[A]

The woman in Miami, in Palm beach, with the truck Trump ties. Right? Everything. I mean, he knew how to get each woman because of his little accent and his little gullible conversations. Right.

[B]

And. And the fact that he here is a man who's very, very successful and very, very wealthy and.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Can provide this wonderful, luxurious how to talk. Yeah. And so, yeah. So he had this involvement with the FBI, with this FBI agent. Tell me more about that.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because I know what happened to her. It's very sad.

[A]

Yeah. She had gotten a hold of me a few years before all this was taking place, and she was basically doing her skill set. She was an FBI agent. She's like, michelle, I have a client. She never divulged the name or nothing. I already know the name, but I'm not gonna. And that all ties back again with Alex. Okay. So she says, I have a client that has been scammed by Alex. Can you help me? Me? And I'm like hearing the words, I'm like, you're an ex FBI agent. You have more power than me. You can have more access than me. What do you need help with? And I'm like, I'm over here admiring her because I know that she was in the scenes with oset, the open source intelligence.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I, I was, I was told, or I was, I was seeing ads saying that she was good in osint. And I'm like, okay, well, they teach that, that seminars. Great. I never attended them because I have my own skill set, you know? And she says, I, I need. Can you share with me some of this and some of that what you have on Alex? And I'm like, I can get you the. I said, right now we're fixing to go to bankruptcy court. They're. They're going to go, they're going to divulge all the creditors and all the people that he owes money to. Why don't you get. Here's the case number. Boom. I sent it to her. She would talk here and there in little bits and Pieces. And I was like, this lady is an ex FBI agent. She can get information. Why is she asking me?

[B]

Yeah. Sounded fishy. Yeah.

[A]

And I'm like, I was. There's something in my stomach that was just telling me, be careful, Michelle. Be careful, be careful, careful. And I'm like, okay. Well, one time I was getting too close. She calls me on the phone at night, at 10 o' clock at night. And I was getting in the way of Toletta because of money. I was trying to bring down Alex. But in the same time, that was Toletta's money.

[B]

Right. Because you had no idea. So she was pretending she was just an FBI agent interested in going after him, but in fact she was having a relationship with him and was expecting.

[A]

And I didn't get that together until later. Later. And I'm like, okay. Then she calls me one night drunk. And I have those recorded till this day if you want em.

[B]

I've heard that them.

[A]

You did?

[B]

I did.

[A]

How?

[B]

Because we've been talking about this story for a while.

[A]

Okay. So. And I'm like, what the hell? And I was in my ready to go to sleep Mimi clothes, you know, and I was, you know, me and my husband were just looking at tick tock and stuff like that. And I get this strange call and like, what the is to let a calling me for right now? It's 10:45. And I'm like, to Letta, are you okay? My concern was more compassion.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, are you okay?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And I don't know. You heard the conversation? Because I was concerned.

[B]

Yeah. So she was.

[A]

And I knew. Yeah. And that's when I got the full gif of what she was telling me about. And I'm like, look to Leta. And I was talking about Alex and stuff like that. And I got into the conversation with her in there, but she was drunk and like, are you okay to let her.

[B]

Right. She was so. She. So tell me. The gist of the conversation was she was drunk. She felt really bad. She. She was feeling so.

[A]

So I just want to be like you, Michelle. You are so good at what you do. And.

[B]

And Right.

[A]

I'm like.

[B]

And did you. You use that. You were telling her, look, this guy that you're in a relationship with is a big scammer.

[A]

Yeah. And I wanted to help her. I wanted to get her out of it. I want her to get open up. And then this was my opportunity. She was so vulnerable. I'm like, to let her. Save yourself. Help me help you?

[B]

Yeah. By bringing this guy and this.

[A]

And she would not. And then later. Later, April 25th. 5th. I find out she's passed away.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I called the medical examiner and I said, what happened? It was alcohol, and alcohol poisoning.

[B]

Yeah. It's so sad. But this man, eventually, Alex, the Prince of Dubai slash the Prince of San Antonio.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Major.

[A]

She made a website against me, Michelle. Fraud.com or something like that. I'm like, why would you do that? You know, I was angry with her, of course. Angry because all these other opportunities were coming up, and they're like this. These people from New York wanted me to be a part of this elite operation, you know? Michelle, what is going on with this website? I'm like, I don't know. But this lady is. She. She scrubbed the Internet.

[B]

She scrubbed the Internet of anything mentioning bad things about Alex. Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then eventually, obviously, you were right.

[A]

And that's how I met at the Barnes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Nick Barnes. The Barnes family.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They were scammed by Alex as well. And I'm like. And when I. When I got a hold of them in San Marco, they reached. They reached out to me. I met him in San Marcos. I'm like, what? How could you? You're wealthy people.

[B]

Yeah. How could you not seen that?

[A]

This guy. I said, his stuff is all over the Internet.

[B]

It's the problem.

[A]

No, Michelle. Because I was told by the FBI to stand down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I. I left the news case to rest for, like, a year, eight months to a year. I'm like, how did you not see all the stuff that I put on the Internet? It. What stuff?

[B]

People get blinded by money. Like the promise of a guy who's worth possibly worth millions of dollars with Dubai money. I think people just got blinded by that in many ways, you know, and he obviously was very good at what he did, but he's now in prison serving, like, 24 years, five year sentence.

[A]

Three rivers.

[B]

But the case isn't over because there's more people involved. And you're still working.

[A]

Yeah, I'm gonna.

[B]

I'm. I'm. I'm thankful to Alex only for one thing, is that it was his case that got me and, you know, you together to start talking about this.

[A]

And I. I. We're. We're trying to, you know, get in and see if you can put me on the list to go say, hey, what's up? You want to get into prison?

[B]

Yeah. If you do get in, tell me and I'll come with you.

[A]

Yeah, I want to go, and I want to go visit him. I want to. I Want to see him?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In real life?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. They should never underestimate women. No, we should never underestimate you.

[A]

Essentially, I will find you. I'm with White Star Consulting. I do want to put that on the record. It's a. It's in. Based out of Texas.

[B]

Oh, good.

[A]

John Lehman is one of the top elitist. We're part of a.

[B]

It's a PI Company or what is it?

[A]

Is it consulting? He's the top tier.

[B]

Oh, good.

[A]

White Star Consulting. He's been a good friend of mine. I trust him wholeheartedly.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

He's an awesome person. Him and his partner, we have one of the best cases that come to us, and we take care of cases that no one can take care of.

[B]

Yeah. I absolutely know who I would to love. Look who I would call if I ever needed a PI and that would be you.

[A]

Yeah. And right now, I'm working on another case for Latia. Yeah, the cartel. I know exactly where she's at.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay, let's talk more. And right after this.

[A]

Yes. Podcast.

[B]

Well, Michelle, it's been so wonderful to have you on the podcast again. You would be my first call if I ever need information, investigator. But I'm happy, like you said, you become friends with all the people that you get in touch with, and. And I can see why. And we now, for sure, I consider you my friend as well. I'm happy that we.

[A]

I'm your friend forever. And whatever you need, I'm here for you.

[B]

I know you are.

[A]

100%.

[B]

I know you are. You're awesome. Keep doing what you do.

[A]

You have a skip tracer on staff.

[B]

And you have an investigative journalist on

[A]

staff for you too. We can go, you know, go in the jungle.

[B]

I love it. The world is. The dirty world out there is our oyster. Yeah. Michelle Gomez, thank you so much for being here.

[A]

Well, thank you so much, Mariana. It's an honor. It's a pleasure. It's a great experience to be on this beautiful show, and I wish you the best.