Undercover Cop

Summary

The Hidden Third – “Undercover Cop” with Brit Elmore

Date: March 18, 2026
Host: Mariana van Zeller
Guest: Brit Elmore, former undercover officer

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Episode Overview

In this gripping episode of The Hidden Third, host Mariana van Zeller sits down with Brit Elmore, a veteran undercover cop who spent 25 years infiltrating the criminal underworld of the Bay Area. From buying drugs in the infamous Tenderloin district to running large-scale sting operations and living undercover in jails, Brit offers a frank, sometimes shocking insider look at America’s war on drugs, the complexity behind crime, and the human stories of both perpetrators and police. The conversation dives deep into the systemic issues driving the drug epidemic, immigration, law enforcement frustrations, and the nuances of criminal investigations. With both candor and compassion, Brit and Mariana explore why these underground economies endure—and the societal failures that help sustain them.

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Brit Elmore’s Early Years and Path to Policing

• Origins in the Bay Area: Brit grew up outside San Francisco in a blue-collar, mixed-race family, with no prior law enforcement background.

  “Mom is Mexican. My dad's from Alabama. White guy. Blue-eyed guy… hard workers.” – Elmore [01:12]

• School and Work: Dropped out after 9th grade, worked various manual jobs before getting his GED in pursuit of a police or fire job for better benefits.

  “I went to school till 9th grade and I dropped out… My dad’s like, that's fine. Just got to work full time.” – Elmore [01:45]
  “A buddy of mine… said, ‘Dude, you got to get a job in the fire department or the police department. You got to get one or the other. Benefits, good money.’” – Elmore [02:53]

• Entry into Law Enforcement: Began as a correctional officer at San Mateo Sheriff’s Office, overseeing high-risk inmates.

  “My first day there… there was a bunch of young black kids… they’re like, ‘We're going to fucking kill you, man.’...but it was just a joke. They were just kids.” – Elmore [04:05]

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Seeing Humanity Behind Bars

• Empathy from Corrections Work: Working among inmates, many with harsh upbringings, Brit developed empathy—seeing the person behind the crime.

  “It was very eye-opening. They never got a free shot... they never got a chance to really try to do something.” – Elmore [05:08]
  “When I do undercover, I kind of relate to people... it’s kind of hard for someone in uniform to relate to what that person’s going through.” – Elmore [05:57]

• On Contraband and Corrections Culture:

  “A lot of correctional officers that come in there, you deal with them every day, so you might as well get along with them.” – Elmore [06:25]

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Transition to Street Policing and Undercover Work

First Foray:

• Joined San Francisco PD, quickly moved from uniform to plainclothes, then to narcotics.

  “I only did like six months in a uniform. And then they needed to fill a spot for Plain Clothes… which was really fun.” – Elmore [13:54]

Undercover in the Tenderloin:

• Described undercover drug buys (“Spitters”), arrest cycles, and evolving tactics:

  “We’d dress up kind of homeless and just buy crack all day in the Tenderloin. We’d grab 20, 30 guys and… it would just keep coming.” – Elmore [16:51, 18:03]

  “The Hondurans would wrap up the crack in these little pieces of plastic and hold them in their mouth…if the cop pulls up...they swallow it or puke it up later.” – Elmore [18:23]
  “If you don’t accept it in your mouth, then you’re not a crack addict, you’re a cop.” – Elmore [19:55]

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The Drug War, Its Limits, and Criminal Justice System Frustrations

The Arrest Cycle and Systemic Breakdown

“You arrest somebody with crack or fentanyl selling to an officer, and they’ll laugh at you. ‘I’ll be out before you get off work.’” – Elmore [23:43]

“With the no bail and everything…They get 6, 7, 8, 9 cases within the last three months and nothing gets done with it.” – Elmore [23:57]

Public Health or Law Enforcement?

“You can’t arrest your way out of it.” – Elmore [26:18]
“Putting them in jail is a time of clarity… When a user said, ‘No, I'm not going to program, put me in jail’… 5, 10 days in jail, a lot would say, ‘I want a program.’” – Elmore [27:42]
“The problem just keeps getting worse… it’s a public health crisis and that's how we should be treating this.” – Mariana [25:31]

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Immigration, Sanctuary Cities, and Drug Enforcement

• Who’s Selling Drugs?:

  “Hondurans are the only ones right now that were sharp enough to figure out how to handle fentanyl and not get sick or overdose…there’s a valley in Honduras, all they think about is, when I’m old enough to come to America and sell drugs…” – Elmore [30:47, 31:18]

  “My worst day here is my best day in Honduras.” – Honduran dealer, quoting Elmore [34:49]

• Systemic Frustrations with Sanctuary Policies:

  “If you deport me, I’ll be right back here because I’m halfway through building my ranch and I’m going to make my money and then you can send me back for free.” – Elmore quoting a dealer [32:59]

  “If they would let us go into the jails and take these guys on fentanyl cases, weapons charges…I honestly believe [ICE agents] wouldn’t be out here running around.” – Elmore [35:54, 43:07]

  “You sold to an officer, you’re getting charged for sales...they think they’re helping, but they're really not.” – Elmore on court practices avoiding federal triggers [41:46]

• Deportation Priorities & Stories:

  “Let’s find the worst of the worst. The people actually harming Americans and deport them. Not the people going to their court proceedings...” – Mariana [39:24]

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Undercover Operations: Risk, Relationships, and Notable Moments

• How He Gained Trust:

  “I never got pushy… I want them to come to me… I would hold my prices straight... If you told me to sell me something for $3,000, I paid $3,000.” – Elmore [58:52]
  “They trusted me so much. They drove my wife crazy. I had a burner phone that rang all night.” – Elmore [59:37]

• Major Operation: Operation Cold Day

  “They built a warehouse inside a warehouse…ATF, DEA, SFPD… we ended up with 125 arrests in an 18-month period.” – Elmore [61:10, 65:29]

• Memorable/Close Calls:

  “He calls up and goes, ‘Hey, dude, he's gonna rob you.’…I was like, it, I want to see him do it, you know?… I pulled my gun out and I had it against the seat... If he tried, I would just lit him up.” – Elmore [73:47]

• Feelings About Targets:

  “If I’m buying dope or guns from somebody who’s not a dope or gun seller… I don’t want to do it… there’s really real gun sellers and real dope sellers. Those are the ones I want.” – Elmore [82:31]

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Drug Trends and Criminal Innovators

• Meth and Fentanyl:

  “I would buy 10, 20 pounds of crystal at a time…Superlabs were pumping out like £500 a day.” – Elmore [55:12]
  “People can function on meth. So you weren't just seeing these zombies, like fentanyl zombies or crack addicts…” – Elmore [56:13]

• Fentanyl's Danger & Xylazine:

  “Tenderloin, eight by eight blocks. I’d say two to three people a day still die there from fentanyl overdose per day. They Narcan all day long. They Narcan people two, three times. The same person.” – Elmore [29:59]
  “Xylazine…fentanyl stops the respiratory system…Xylazine does it to the heart. Narcan does nothing for the heart.” – Elmore [92:24]

• Criminal Ingenuity:

  “All the things that people figure out they can get away with… Like, it's a big thing to move dope…40 foot containers of snow globes...with liquid meth in it.” – Elmore [88:49]
  “If they used their intelligence for something else, they would be so successful.” – Elmore [89:03]

• On Cartel Evolution:

  “Mencho from the CJNG [Jalisco cartel] used to get arrested in San Francisco all the time selling dope on the corner… now he’s the man.” – Elmore [89:31]

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The Challenge of Public Perception & Law Enforcement Today

• Respect and Frustration:

  “Every time you try to pull somebody over, it’s a car chase… if you just comply, nobody would get hurt… There’s a growing lack of respect for law enforcement…” – Elmore [48:54, 49:53]

• On Police Image and Solutions:

  “I just think we need a lot of leaders with common sense that don’t pick sides and know what’s the right thing to do… Too much politics and two sides locked down and won’t listen.” – Elmore [95:15]

• Root of the Crisis – Mental Health and Addiction:

  “They need to not self medicate because that’s what they’re doing. You have to figure out why someone's addicted, what caused that.” – Elmore [98:00]

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Undercover in Jail and the Psychology of Confessions

• Playing the Part:

  “They booked me into jail and put me in a cell with someone… They’ll confess to me.” – Elmore [77:55, 78:27] “It's just...I relate to them and they let their guard down… I feel kind of weird because I did it, acted, got them to open up… then boom, he was a cop.” – Elmore [81:42]

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Notable Quotes and Moments

• “My worst day here is my best day in Honduras.” – Honduran dealer to Brit [34:49]
• “You can't arrest your way out of it.” – Brit Elmore [26:18]
• “They Narcan people two, three times. The same person.” – Brit Elmore [29:59]
• “If they used their intelligence for something else, they would be so successful.” – Brit Elmore [89:03]
• “Mencho…used to get arrested in San Francisco all the time…now he's the man.” – Brit Elmore [89:31]

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Key Timestamps

• Brit’s Backstory & Early Law Enforcement: [01:06] – [04:31]
• Jail Empathy & Sociological Insights: [04:31] – [07:49]
• Transition to Undercover/Plainclothes Work: [13:07] – [15:13]
• Tenderloin Crack Buys & “Spitter” Tactics: [16:49] – [19:51]
• Drug Enforcement Frustrations & Public Health Debate: [22:06] – [27:42]
• Immigration, Sanctuary Cities, and ICE: [30:45] – [43:07]
• Sting Operations, Trust, and Close Calls: [54:43] – [74:28]
• Meth, Fentanyl, Xylazine Trends: [54:56] – [92:24]
• Undercover Jail Stints & Confessions: [77:53] – [82:17]
• Criminal Ingenuity & Cartel Evolution: [88:49] – [90:51]
• Law Enforcement Image, Mental Health, and Solutions: [95:15] – [98:21]

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Closing Notes

The episode wraps with Brit reflecting on the limitations of law enforcement alone to solve systemic social problems, the need for nonpartisan leadership, and the importance of addressing root causes of crime like mental illness and addiction. Mariana and Brit find common ground in their nuanced views, and Brit presents Mariana with a “derby jacket,” a piece of San Francisco street culture, as a token of appreciation—an emblematic gesture underscoring the complexity and humanity at the heart of the stories he’s spent a lifetime inside.

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For listeners: This episode is an eye-opening, unfiltered look at the realities of policing, the underground economy, and the limits of “tough on crime” policies. It also offers a deeply human view—of both perpetrators and protectors—rarely heard in the public narrative.

Transcript

[Brit Elmore]

So he calls up and goes, hey, dude, he's gonna rob you. So I was like, it. I want to go, I want to see him do it, you know, I mean, I. It was kind of a high to me. Like, go ahead and try. So I got behind the seat and he was doing his whole thing and he was unloading the gun. And I pulled my gun out and I had it against the seat. And I'm watching him and he's kind of looking back at me and he's unloading. And I go, why do you always load? Why? He always give me a. A gun that's loaded? Oh, no, I just do it for the drive down. I was like, you want to rob me? And he was like, no, no, I wouldn't do that to you, Carlos. I was like, really? But I had my gun pushed in the back of the seat where he was sitting. If he tried, I would just lit him up.

[Sam]

Britt Elmore, you spent 25 years as an undercover officer. You spent time with the cartel, you did wiretapping, you did tons and tons drug buys and gun buys and all. All sorts of very dangerous operations. Right. Well, welcome to the Hidden Third. You came to the right place.

[Brit Elmore]

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[Sam]

Tell me what your growing up was like for you.

[Brit Elmore]

Like, I grew up just outside of San Francisco in the suburbs. Mom and dad. Mom is Mexican. My dad's from Alabama. White guy. Blue eyed guy? Blue. Blue collar family, hard workers.

[Sam]

Your dad, what did he do for work?

[Brit Elmore]

He was a swimming pool, construction.

[Sam]

Do you know anyone in your family that was in law enforcement whatsoever?

[Brit Elmore]

I've never had anybody in law enforcement. I was the first. Yeah.

[Sam]

And then you, you went to school until ninth grade only, is that correct?

[Brit Elmore]

I went to school till 9th grade and I dropped out. It wasn't that big a deal, like to my, my dad and them, because then none of them went to school. So I go to drop out of school. My dad's like, that's fine. Just got to work full time. So I just rolled into that and I thought that was the right thing to do at the time, but it wasn't.

[Sam]

Did you hate school?

[Brit Elmore]

I did. I didn't. I don't think I was challenged. Later on I kind of figured out I didn't think I was challenged in school and it was real boring to me.

[Sam]

Was it?

[Brit Elmore]

Yes, very boring. And I got to go Back then they had a thing called there was some work period where you can go half the day to go work. So I started doing that and then I Was like, I just do this full time and not even go to school. So I dropped out in ninth grade.

[Sam]

And so what was your first job after that?

[Brit Elmore]

I had jobs as I was a garbage man, window glazer, installed windows. I did a whole bunch of different jobs, and then I finally ended up going back to my dad and my uncles and all them working on swimming pools.

[Sam]

Oh, so you did. Oh, you worked with them on that?

[Brit Elmore]

I did. I ended up going back with them and working in the trades with them.

[Sam]

So how did you end up in law enforcement?

[Brit Elmore]

A buddy of mine was a fireman in San Francisco, and he was like, dude, you got to get a job in the fire department or the police department. You got to get one or the other. He said, benefits, good money. So I decided I was going to try it. So I went back and took my GED test. They put me on a practice test, and I passed it. So then they go, okay, we want to send you to school for a little bit. And then I was like, no, no, I'm not going to do that. Let me come back and take the real test. If I pass it, I get my ged. They knew I wasn't going to stick around, so I went back the next day, I took the test again. I passed it. So they had to give me my ged. And then from there, I started testing for fire departments and police departments.

[Sam]

And then where did you end up? Initially?

[Brit Elmore]

The first place that picked me up was the San Mateo Sheriff's Office. I went in there as a correctional officer.

[Sam]

Oh, what was that like?

[Brit Elmore]

It was weird. It was different my first few days because I was. I hung around guys that were in jail. So I was kind of, like, overseeing people that were in jail now. And these are, like, guys that I kind of related to, the guys that were the. The inmates. And they put me up in a place called Murder Max. It was Three west, and it was where all the murderers were, and on the other side was all the protective custody guys.

[Sam]

This is like a supermax prison.

[Brit Elmore]

No, it's not a supermax. It was just the floor. There was the only floor that you were in a tower, and you were overseeing protective custody people and people that were in for murder. And my first day there, there was a bunch of young black kids, and they're like, in their early 20s. And I went down there and I was dealing with them, and they're like, we're going to fucking kill you, man. The minute you turn your back on us, we're going to fucking.

[Sam]

They said that to you?

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah. And I was like, why? You know, I was kind of like, why? And they're like, dude, you're done. So I kind of went home that night, and I was like, boy, this is gonna be fucked up if I got to deal with this every day. I go in the next morning and I'm bringing breakfast in, and they're all laughing, and they were like. And I was like, what are you laughing at? And they were like, dude, we scared the hell out of you last night. And I was like, no, you didn't. They're like, no, we did. But it was. It was so funny to see. That really opened up my eyes, that these. They're just kids. They were just kids, and they were just trying to have fun and they killed people. But when I watched them when I was working there and I was watching them, it was, like, really sad because you would see that. That they were. That was like their environment to. They had a house, they had food, they got to watch tv, they got to hang out with their friends. And I was like, wow, they didn't probably get that at home, and now they're in there and they're. It's just. It just was very eye opening. They were. A lot of them were from East Palo Alto. It's. It's a. Which is like a really bad area. Back in that time, it was really bad time. So that kind of opened up my eyes to them to think, like, wow, they just. They never got a free shot. They never. They never got. They never got a chance to really try to do something.

[Sam]

So this idea of being able to see the human being behind the Be incarcerated.

[Brit Elmore]

Yes, I seen that a lot working at the jail. I think working at the jail really opened up my eyes, because even for later on in my undercover work, because when I do undercover, I kind of relate to people, and I think it's kind of hard for somebody that comes in the department as a police officer, like, uniform to be able to kind of see, to kind of relate to what the person's going through. So that really opened up my eyes.

[Sam]

Do you think that's the case for most correctional officers?

[Brit Elmore]

I think it is, because you. It depends. But a lot of them. A lot of correctional officers that come in there, you end up there. You deal with them every day, so you might as well get along with them. Why are you going to bump heads with them? You know, it's not going to help them. It's not going to help you. And I had a lot of respect in there. I mean, I would see a lot of them on the street later and they'd come up, hey, what's up, Elmore? And, you know, they talk to me and stuff because I respected them. Yeah.

[Sam]

Have you watched there's a documentary out called the Alabama Solution. I've spoken about this a bunch because it was such a good doc. I think it was one of the best for me this year. But it's about the state prisons in Alabama, a bunch of them, and the level of violence and human rights abuses that happen inside. And you should. It's amazing, but so much of it is perpetrated by correctional officers. I think that there's, you know, it's like in every profession, right? There's good and bad.

[Brit Elmore]

Yes. And people just in general. I mean, a lot of the guys that I would buy dope and guns from, they're not bad people. They're just. There's some people that are real vicious and I can tell they're. I mean, they got the devil in them and they're not good people, but a lot of the other people, they're. I kind of see the reason why they do what they do, and it's not right and they have to pay the price. But. But it's people are people, right?

[Sam]

I'm so glad you say that because that's exactly what I found through my, you know, 20 plus years of working reporting on black markets. It's that the majority of people actually are not bad people. Right. There definitely are bad. A lot of bad people out there.

[Brit Elmore]

Yes.

[Sam]

But the majority of people that you find. Do you realize that they happen to do what they're doing? They happen to see them involve themselves in life of crime because of lack of opportunities or the situations or where they grew up or environment around them, Right?

[Brit Elmore]

Yes. I hung around a lot of kids growing up. I hung around an older crowd, which probably wasn't good for me. That's probably why I dropped out. But I hung around a lot of older crowd and there was drug dealing and guns and all that stuff. And it was very natural to me because I was around that environment and for people that weren't around that environment and then get around it, it's. It's. They don't understand it. Right. They don't understand it. And it's just. It's. I was glad I was fortunate enough to be able to see that and to end up where I was.

[Sam]

Did you ever. Were you ever sort of enticed into entering that life since you were. You had people around you who were doing It.

[Brit Elmore]

No, I really. I was around them. I mean, I was around guys that were dealing drugs and it was. Coke was a big thing back then, you know, at the bars and at events and stuff. And I was around it, but I never.

[Sam]

Did you ever do coke?

[Brit Elmore]

No.

[Sam]

Not even then when you were young?

[Brit Elmore]

I didn't.

[Sam]

I haven't either.

[Brit Elmore]

No.

[Sam]

It's like it's two of us. Yeah, but why not? Were you just never interested, never curious about it?

[Brit Elmore]

Well, growing up, I had family members that older, like my dad's brother and stuff. He was. He was mess. Messed up with drugs and stuff. So. I mean, I think that kind of scared you. I didn't want to go that route. Yeah, great guy, but just dabbled in coke and heroin and stuff.

[Sam]

Hey, everyone. So real quick before we keep going, if you're enjoying this conversation, which I really hope you are, take a second to subscribe, like, or leave a review on YouTube.com Marianna Van Zeller or wherever you're listen to this podcast the Hidden Third and share it with your friends. This show doesn't have a marketing budget behind it. It grows because of people like you. And this means everything to me. So thank you so much. Obrigada. So did you enjoy working in the prison as a correctional officer?

[Brit Elmore]

I did. I did enjoy it because I felt like I got along with everybody there. I got along with probably the mas better than I did a lot of the deputies. I think maybe like you said, some of the deputies are very straight laced and they're black and white. When I walk in a pretty gray area with people.

[Sam]

You mean the way that they were treating other the prisoners?

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah. Not bad or abusive or anything, but you could tell, you could tell when somebody don't like you and somebody likes you. And I didn't think of them like that.

[Sam]

There's a lot of contraband in prisons. Did you see any of it happening?

[Brit Elmore]

The contraband ones isn't bad when I was there because everybody got strip search coming in, even if you were there for the weekends. Like if you had drunk driving, you had to do Saturdays and Sundays for six weeks or something. So you'd have to come in and stay in jail Saturday and Sunday. So everybody got strip search. Then the laws changed and it just depended on what your charge was to be strip searched. So now it's rampant. I mean, you got a lot of. I mean, they're planning on coming in on Friday night and dumping out dope through the weekend and then coming back the next weekend and doing it. So unless It's a gun charge, firearms, excuse me, a narcotics charge, stuff like that. They can't strip search you.

[Sam]

And from what I've heard, a lot of that contraband is coming in. Yeah, a lot of it from people who are visiting the prisons, the wives, the family members. But a lot of times it's also the correctional officers themselves.

[Brit Elmore]

I think it's a little bit different in the west coast because a lot of the officers are. A lot of them are government. They work for the government. I know that back east in the Midwest and stuff, a lot of those places are run by companies, so I think it makes a big difference. And a lot of the places you see it happen, the officers don't get paid a lot. West coast, we make a lot of money in the West Coast.

[Sam]

Okay, so you think there's less incentive for officers to.

[Brit Elmore]

I think there is.

[Sam]

Smuggle drugs are not into the prison. Huh. And so why did you transition out of being a correctional officer?

[Brit Elmore]

I was going to deputy out and go be a deputy in San Mateo. And I just thought it was too slow for me. I just thought that I wanted to fast pace stuff if I was going to go out on the street. So I tested for San Francisco and then I got picked up by them

[Sam]

because it was a city and there was a lot more happening there, I guess.

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah. And there's a lot more opportunities there.

[Sam]

Is it, is it tough to get in? Was it tough at the time?

[Brit Elmore]

No, no, it wasn't. I mean, I got in with the ged, so yeah, no, it wasn't.

[Sam]

And then how did the undercover work start?

[Brit Elmore]

I got in, I went through the academy. I think it was six, seven months. And then I went to uniform and went through my field training. Very eye opening for me. Field training because it was like the wild west. I mean, it was crazy. On the weekends, car chases, no way. Guns, dope, all kinds of stuff going on. So it was, I was like, wow, this is really fun.

[Sam]

So you were, you were there just to train, but you would go out with the other cops?

[Brit Elmore]

I was assigned a senior, a senior trainer. So I would just ride with him and he would teach me what to do. Because you go through the academy, you don't know anything. I mean, you don't know anything. So you get in a car with a field training officer and he's like, okay, I'm going to take you out. We're going to handle runs, we're going to do things. And it was like code 3, car chases, fights, guys with guns. It was downtown where I was. I was downtown off a Market street close to the Tenderloin. I was in Southern Station, and I was like, oh, this is so fun. You know, it was. It was. I really enjoyed going to work. And then I got put up at the Ingleside. When I got sent up to Ingleside, I only did, like, six months in a uniform. And then they needed. They needed to fill a spot for Plain Clothes.

[Sam]

Plain Clothes. So that's undercover?

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah, that's undercover, but it's plain clothes just for that station. So they asked me to step up and do it. So I. I was on probation, which doesn't happen, and they let me come in and work plainclothes with. With the plainclothes team, which was really fun.

[Sam]

And did you have to train for that as well?

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah, but it's more of. It's more of you driving in those areas and looking for people that are wanted or falling upon crimes that are occurring. It's a different type of undercover work. It's more of you spotting things and acting on it, because they don't see that. They don't see the black and white pull up.

[Sam]

So you're not setting up buys or anything at that point?

[Brit Elmore]

No, no, no, I wasn't doing that.

[Sam]

You're just walking around, like, looking for things that look suspicious or. Or that could lead to something later?

[Brit Elmore]

Yes. Yeah, that's all you did, is you just. You just prowled around looking for things. Or if somebody had a warrant that needed to be arrested or they're looking for a certain person, you would hang out in front of the house to see if he showed up.

[Sam]

What was the most memorable moment or event that happened during that time?

[Brit Elmore]

Well, we're up at the Ingleside, one of the. They call them housing developments now, but there was a projects was Sunnydale, and it was really popping off, and there was a lot of shootings, a lot of. A lot of stuff going on. So we would spend a lot of time in the Sunnydale. So that was a. That was a lot of fun because it was. It was kind of a crazy time back then.

[Sam]

And you were walking around and nobody knows Euro Cop at the time.

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah. And you're driving around in, like, unmarked vehicles and stuff, just. Just so, you know, just to see if they. If someone's doing something so you can jump out on them. I was at Ingleside Station, and I was working Plain Clothes. And then the narcotics units would come over, and they would do search warrants and stuff, and I would gravitate towards them because that's what I wanted to do. You know, I watched it on TV and all the undercover stuff and all this. So there was a guy working there, Paul, and we ended up being partners after. But he was like, hey, I think I can get you down to Narcotics. So I was like, okay. I said, please, you know. So they got ahold of me a few weeks later and said, hey, Elmore, you're going to go down Narcotics for a six week detail, six weeks only. And I said, okay, that's fine, I'll go. But you never went down for six weeks. If you went down and you clicked, you didn't leave, you just stayed. That's one thing about San Francisco. A lot of the other agencies, they'd let you do five years in a specialty unit and then they have you leave. When you go to San Francisco, if you're in a specialty unit, unless you get in trouble or promote, you can, you can stay in that unit.

[Sam]

And so you clicked.

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah, I went down Narcotics and the guys down there, a lot of them were sergeant inspectors and they were like, dude, you coming down here, all you can do is buy dope. You're not going to like it. You're eventually just going to go back. And I was like, that's fine, I'll buy dope. So our big thing was that was during the end of the crack era. But it was still. Crack was really heavy back then. It was.

[Sam]

What year was this? Or years? More or less.

[Brit Elmore]

99. Okay, 99. When I went down there and we dress up kind of homeless and we just buy crack all day in the

[Sam]

Tenderloin and then do what with that?

[Brit Elmore]

We buy and arrest. I go up, I buy crack from you, hand you money, cover. Officers watching. He's like, Brit just handed him the money. Brit just got the product. Move in, here's what the guy looks like, and an arrest team comes in and grabs him. And it just happened every single day. It was like we would grab 20, 30 guys and the next day, 20, 30 guys, it would just keep coming. It was big. The Hondurans were, were selling the crack at the time.

[Sam]

Yeah, I had a similar experience when I did a story about the. It was called the OxyContin Express. It was about the pill mills in South Florida. And we spent a day with the Broward County Sheriff's Department. And it was all day, they would go. It was. The undercover officers were there, they would go. Somebody was selling them at the time was OxyContin. And they would. It was one after another that they would Just this guy. Arrest, rest. At the end of the day, I think we went back to the station and we arrest. Or they'd arrested about, I don't, like, seven or eight people in a span of like three hours or something. It was crazy.

[Brit Elmore]

We would get 20 to 30 on good days. Wow. I know. And sometimes you would arrest because one was holding dope, one would hold the money, one was holding a lot more of the dope. So you'd have to get three just in that one arrest. But that's when they called it spitters. The Hondurans would wrap up the crack in these little pieces of plastic and hold them in their mouth.

[Sam]

No way.

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah. And they would spit them out and sell them to you.

[Sam]

So they'd have several of these packages under in their mouth.

[Brit Elmore]

Their mouths would be full. There were these little. They were like.

[Sam]

So they couldn't talk?

[Brit Elmore]

No, they could talk, but you'd see when they were talking, they had it all sitting in their mouth.

[Sam]

No way. Like, under their tongue, on the cheeks,

[Brit Elmore]

sitting in their mouth, just hanging. Like. Like they walk by, they show you. They'd open their mouth and show you, I got crack. You need crack. So what would happen is you would buy, like, you'd say, give me two, 20 shots, and they pull it out and they'd give it to you. So they called them spitters.

[Sam]

Right. And why would they have it in their mouths?

[Brit Elmore]

So they could swallow it if the cops came. And they would always hold a water bottle. So what would happen is if the cop pulls up, opens the door, they take the water bottle, swallow it, and it goes into their gut, and they either force themselves to puke it up

[Sam]

later or they poop it, or they.

[Brit Elmore]

It out, they wash it up, and they sell it again. So.

[Sam]

But it's also so dangerous, right, if it.

[Brit Elmore]

If it.

[Sam]

One of them opens up.

[Brit Elmore]

If it opened up, it would.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Brit Elmore]

But there's. They're about the size of a little marble that they would wrap up, and they would wrap hundreds of them up. And then they kind of figured it out. So then they would be like. They would be. I'd go buy a couple some crack. Let me get. Let me get three. And they'd be like, open your mouth. And I would be like, let me just get it. And then I started doing it. So I started getting successful in all my buys because I'd be like, go ahead. And they'd throw three in my mouth, and I'd just spit them out right away.

[Sam]

And that's that. Because that way they would Know that you're not a cop also.

[Brit Elmore]

That's the thing. They'd say, open your mouth. Let me put it in here. If you don't accept it in your mouth, then you're not a crack addict, you're a cop.

[Sam]

And you were doing it because you

[Brit Elmore]

thought, well, I get the arrest. I get the arrest. So I would do it. A lot of guys would be like, oh, dude, why do you do that? And I'd be like, I'm not going to walk around and try to get one to hand it to me. I'll just let them throw them in my mouth.

[Sam]

So do you think you were good at what you did? And then we'll talk more about your career as an undercover. But you think you became really good at what you did because you were just willing to do more than others? What?

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah, I was enjoying it so much. And I would think about it, like, okay, if I walk up to three of them and they want to throw it in my mouth and they turn me down, that's three guys getting away with it. So I'm just gonna let them put it in my mouth. So I would let them do it, but then I'd think about it, like, they probably just shit this out or puked it out like, the day before, washed it off, and put it back in their mouth. And then you get the Honduran girls, and they would not. Not to be rude or anything. They would. They would hold it in their vaginal cabinet, like, a lot of it. So if you go up and buy from them, and you're like, hey, give me 10, 10 shots. They turn in the corner, they reach down, they pull out a plastic bag. They pull it out and then they push it back up.

[Sam]

But in this case, they weren't putting it in your mouth, I hope.

[Brit Elmore]

No, no, no. So. And then we would arrest them. And then, see, that's. I don't think the law. A lot of the laws change for the better. Because if I arrested a girl and she had a plastic bag in her, if she didn't pull it out, I would take her to SFGH Hospital, I take her to emergency, and the doctor would pull it out, or the doctor would tell her, go ahead and pull it out, or I'm gonna take it out for you. And then after a while, they were like, you need a search warrant. So then you go write a search warrant to get a plastic bag pulled out of them.

[Sam]

And the plastic bag probably wouldn't be there anymore. Or she wouldn't be there anymore.

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah. So they they push out further or something. So then the. Then the doctors are like, I'm not doing it. You could arrest me if you want. I'm being ordered to do it by judge, but I'm not doing it. So. Because they said that it was too evasive, but times had just changed. It went from us being real easy to be able to get what they. To get, you know, what we needed to do for the arrest. And then it just got more difficult. It got more difficult.

[Sam]

So, yeah, you can't. You can't. There's no way you can be doing the same. You can't be arresting 30 people for selling drugs nowadays like you did back when you were doing this.

[Brit Elmore]

No. And also the. Things have changed. Like, everybody involved has to write a statement. Before I was a buyer, if I bought from him, I just list who was there and he sold me dope. Now everybody that's involved has to write a statement. So that slows everything down. So as things. Things got harder to do, not worse. They just got harder to do where it made it harder to do your job. And it's like that right now.

[Sam]

And do you. But do you think. I mean, the drug problem has just been growing and getting worse regardless. Do you think that just incarcerating people who are selling drugs is. Is the answer?

[Brit Elmore]

I know I kind of have the theory, the carrot and stick. I kind of think that if you come down on them harder, eventually you're going to break them where they don't want to do it anymore. And I don't mean come down harder. I mean, like, I was assigned to DEA since 2015 up. So we would get a guy dealing dope and DEA would say, we're going to put a federal felony on you. You're going to get two years, and if you do it again, you're going to get eight years. If you do it again, you're going to get 10 years and then you're going to get 20. A lot of guys that I would deal with would be like, hey, I can't get in trouble, man. I got a federal strike. But if it's San. If it was in San Francisco with the county, they were like, dude, they're not going to do anything. I get away with all this.

[Sam]

So they just kept selling drugs, continue to do it.

[Brit Elmore]

Yes. And it's gotten so bad that you'll arrest somebody with crack or fentanyl selling to an officer, and they'll like, kind of laugh at you. Like, I'll be out of here before you get off work. Yeah.

[Sam]

And are they?

[Brit Elmore]

Yes, yes. With the no bail and everything. Yeah. They get released right away and then they get 6, 7, 8, 9 cases within the last three months and nothing gets done with it.

[Sam]

Yeah. I have my own thoughts on this as well, which is, I understand, and obviously you've been on the front lines of this in a way that I have not. But I think that the way we are trying to tackle this problem that seems to have only grown every single year, it gets worse.

[Brit Elmore]

Right.

[Sam]

I think it's been a million people who have died from the opiate crisis alone in the last 25 years. More than all the other, the worst combined that the America has fought in the last 150 years. It's like insane numbers. Right. And the problem, no matter, we decided, okay, we're gonna be tough on this, tough on drugs, and we're gonna start incarcerating people and we're gonna put a stop to this. And the problem just keeps getting worse. And so I had, I interviewed a guy once who works in Kensington, which has now become sort of the center of the new, the tranq dope epidemic, which is fentanyl mix. And I'm gonna talk to you about that too. He was basically helping addicts with their wounds because there's these horrific wounds that are caused by tranq dope. And he was saying one of the things he said, which I think, I mean, a lot of people say that we're fighting this the wrong way. This is a public health crisis and that's how we should be treating this.

[Brit Elmore]

Yes, I believe so. I believe so. It's like in San Francisco we have a new mayor, Mayor Laurie. He's very good. He's doing a lot of things. But you don't call it a homeless issue, you call it a mental health issue and you call it an addiction issue. And you deal with those two, now that they're putting them in housing, they're just dying inside the house because nobody's there to narcan them.

[Sam]

It's not a lack of housing. Basically, it's not a lack of housing. It's what leads people to.

[Brit Elmore]

Yes, a lot of it's mental health. They're self medicating. And you need to get to the source of that. And a lot of it, the addiction needs to figure out, if you didn't have all those zombies out there walking around, you wouldn't have all those dealers out there dealing to them. So I think that you can't, you can't arrest your way out of it.

[Sam]

That is exactly it. And that's why the focus should be on the user. Why is it that there are so many people out there addicted to drugs? What can we do to rehabilitate them? How can we actually create a system that works in their favor, that helps them get clean? Because right now, we do not, in many cases. Cases have those systems in place.

[Brit Elmore]

If they're not there, the dealers aren't there then.

[Sam]

Right, exactly.

[Brit Elmore]

And the problem with that is we used to do a thing before where we would. They would make narcotics do it. We hated it. It would be 11, 5, 50. We used to have to go out and arrest everybody that was under the influence. But when you arrested them on the influence, you asked them, do you want to go to rehab? Do you want to go to program? You want to go to jail? What do you want to do? And a lot of them would say, fuck it, I'll go to program.

[Sam]

Yeah. This is, you know, this is exactly what happened in Portugal, where I'm from, where we decriminalize drugs in that way in which we give people who are caught with a certain amount of drugs. If it's a ton, of course, then you're going to prison because you're a trafficker.

[Brit Elmore]

Yes.

[Sam]

But until a certain amount, you. You're given that option, and it's been really successful there.

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah, we don't do that now. What we do is we have officers go up to them while they're using and go, do you need help? Do you want to go somewhere someone's getting high? They're not.

[Sam]

Right.

[Brit Elmore]

They're not thinking about. You're messing up their high right now, trying to talk to them.

[Sam]

Right. So it's not. It's not the carrot and stick approach. It's not either you go to prison or you go to rehab. It's like, do you want to go rehab? And they're probably going in that situation.

[Brit Elmore]

Putting them in jail was a time of clarity. I don't think of it as incarceration. When a user said, no, I'm not going to program, put me in jail. When he sat like five, 10 days in jail, a lot of them would, in jail, would say, I don't want to do this anymore. I want a program. And the judge would offer it to him. The judge would bring them in, hey, you've been in for five days. What do you want? I'll try a program. They get a moment of clarity. You can't get somebody to change if their mind isn't clear. And if they're high on the street, how are you gonna. How are you gonna even. How are you gonna even talk to them and try to make sense of it? Right.

[Sam]

And so what do you think? Change. Why do you think that? Now? That's not. That's not how we're approaching the laws.

[Brit Elmore]

I think it's the laws. I mean, now, if you get caught with drugs and it's personal use, it's a ticket. And you'll grab somebody or you'll see a guy OD and die, and when they're going through his belongings, they'll pull out 30 tickets because he's been cited 30 times for doing drugs, and he never went to jail on it. And I don't think putting them in jail is the thing. I think it's a timeout. And I had a lot of people come to me after to tell me, hey, man, it was kind of good. You put me in there for a minute because I kind of realized I don't want to do that no more. They have to hit the rock bottom. But you can't hit your rock bottom when you're laying on the ground in shit Right. High. You can't.

[Sam]

Yeah. This is why. This is not an easy problem to solve. Right. It's because, again, it's like you said, I don't think arresting your way out of this problem is going to work.

[Brit Elmore]

And.

[Sam]

And we have, you know, the biggest number. It's like 2 million people at any given day are in prison in the United States. It imprisons more people than anywhere else in the world, and yet it still has the biggest drug problem or one of the biggest drug problems in the world, Right? The biggest. We have numbers of overdoses in the United States like, that are higher than many, the majority of other countries. And so. Yeah. So what do you do? But I do understand what you say, and I have actually interviewed so many users who have told me exactly what you just said it was going to prison or going to jail. That sort of helped me. The moment of clarity that helped me get clean.

[Brit Elmore]

It's a timeout process. Tenderloin, eight by eight blocks. I'd say two to three people a day still die there from fentanyl overdose per day. I mean, they Narcan all day long. They Narcan people two, three times. The same person.

[Sam]

The same person. Yeah.

[Brit Elmore]

Something's gotta break.

[Sam]

Yeah. Yeah. And if it weren't for Narcan, there would be dozens, if not hundreds of deaths in the Tenderloin in all these different neighborhoods.

[Brit Elmore]

Yes.

[Sam]

Yeah. It's crazy. So tell me. I want to Go back a little bit to you were with the spitters getting those Hondurans. Why do you think it was Hondurans at the time?

[Brit Elmore]

It still is.

[Sam]

And it's still Hondurans.

[Brit Elmore]

It's still Hondurans. It's all Hondurans. Hondurans are the only ones right now. And I'm not saying this to be. I mean, I'm Mexican. I don't say this to be race or anything. Hondurans are the only one ones right now that were sharp enough to figure out how to handle fentanyl and not. Not get sick or overdose. Nobody else wants to touch it from packaging it, blending it, cutting it, all that stuff. Nobody wants to touch it in the Hondurans. They have it figured out.

[Sam]

I wonder, is that just a San Francisco thing or.

[Brit Elmore]

No, I don't know the place. There's a valley in Honduras. Because I talked to a lot of Hondurans and question them and talk to them about it. There's a valley in Honduras. And all they think about is, when I'm old enough to come to America and sell drugs, that's. I mean, they see them, they see their cousins and everybody doing it, and they make really good money, right? So that's. That's what they want to do. But it's. It's San Francisco, it's Seattle, it's Denver, it's Ohio. And what will happen, you'll go back to those valleys, because the dealers, what. What I do, like, for when we do wiretaps, I go out and I buy from a guy fentanyl in the tenderloin. And then I buy a couple ounces and I buy 4 ounces, then I buy 6 ounces, and I go, hey, I want to start buying pounds. And he sees that I'm not doing it, that I'm selling it, and then we go up on a wire. And when I'm dealing with these guys, these guys are making a thousand bucks a day, seven days a week. That's really good money. And then they take half of it, they shift half down to Honduras, and they store it for them, and they spend the rest of it. And they're driving nice cars, Hondas, and they got cell phones, and they're doing really well. And by making all that money, when they finally do go back, if there's a lady that did an article in San Francisco on it, and she went back there, and you go back there and there's these compounds, and they've got the San Francisco Giants on The gate, the 49ers, University of Ohio, because that's where they made their money. You know, they wanted. Like, that's where I made my money.

[Sam]

And the goal is to make enough money so you can go back home and then live a life, a comfortable life to other people around.

[Brit Elmore]

Right before I retired, I had one guy tell us, if you deport me, I'll be right back here because I'm halfway through building my ranch and I'm going to make my money and then you can send me back for free. Then I'm going to stay at my ranch.

[Sam]

Yeah, I've been to some of these communities before, and it's always. It is the bigger houses, and there's a lot of poverty in a lot of these countries and communities. And. And so if you're seeing, wow, that family is. You know, the kids are all able to go to college or go to school. They are able to afford clothing and shoes, and it's all because their dad is working in the United States. And I think the majority of them working in our fields and building our homes. But. Yeah, but there is a certain amount of them that also come here and sell drugs in the.

[Brit Elmore]

Crack was one thing with the fentanyl. I mean, when they arrest them, they go through a thing where they talk to them, interview. They go, you know, this kills people. And they're like, yeah, I know. They're like, I don't care. Like, I make my money. Right. You know, it's. It's. They know it's poison.

[Sam]

Yeah. That. What I hear a lot is, yeah, if I. If I. If I'm not the one selling this, somebody else will. Or if I'm not the one making this, somebody else will be making it. So at least it'll. It'll be me. And I can help my family this way.

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah. And I. And I understand it. I mean, my Spanish isn't great, but I speak Spanish, so I would. We did a search warrant and we hit the house and there was like 15 guys in there, and one of them started fighting and got bit by a police dog. So I drove him to the hospital. So I'm just asking him, hey, you know, we're fine. We're laughing, we're talking to each other. And he said something that really stuck in my head. He said, my. My worst day here is my best day in Honduras. And he got. He got chewed up by a dog. And he was like, it's okay.

[Sam]

No, you mean his worst day. Oh, yeah, okay.

[Brit Elmore]

His worst day in San Francisco was his best day in Honduras. He's like, it doesn't matter.

[Sam]

And, and that's because of poverty back

[Brit Elmore]

home, I would think. So. I, I would think that's. No, just. Yeah, the whole, the whole no money, no work, and, and, and like stuck in my head. I was like, shit. You know, wow.

[Sam]

Right? That's why they're willing to take.

[Brit Elmore]

Why, why you do this. You just got bit by a dog, man. He's like, no. Yeah.

[Sam]

You don't know what life is like back home.

[Brit Elmore]

Yes. But then again, I think to myself, it's not our problem. You know what I mean? In a sense, you can't come up here and kill our people. No, I mean citizens. You can't come up here and kill our citizens and think it's okay because it's your worst day. I understand that. And things should probably, things should probably change in Honduras and it should make it better for them. Who, Whoever can do it. But you can't come up and just sell poison.

[Sam]

No. And those should be the people being deported. Not, not, not the.

[Brit Elmore]

No, absolutely not.

[Sam]

The people waking up.

[Brit Elmore]

Absolutely.

[Sam]

But Home Depot to go.

[Brit Elmore]

I see the, and I see the flip side on that because I know a lot of HSI's guys, I know some guys from ICE, and those guys, a lot of them don't want to do what they're doing. They said if they would let us go into the jails and take these guys on fentanyl cases, weapons charges, DVs, child molestations, rapes, and let us have those guys, we wouldn't be out here running around. And I know a lot of them are sincere when they say that. I mean, they're looking for a target because the jail let him out and they hit a house and there's 15 people in there. Well, all 15 are undocumented, so now they have to take all 15. I've witnessed, I've witnessed, I've witnessed an undocumented worker in jail, deported twice, had sex with his 16 year old stepdaughter and was getting released. And HSI sat out there all day in front of the jail waiting for him to come. And a deputy walked out and said, hey, just so you guys know, he's not here. We took him over to social services and let him go. We were told not to let him out the door in front of you. And that's the whole thing. Like in 2008, they stopped it. Prior to 2008, INS would be able to get inside the jail.

[Sam]

INS at the time was immigration.

[Brit Elmore]

Yes. And they would run you up if you had a drunk driving or something. They weren't tripping on it. You had a dv, you had a weapons charge, you had any of those fentanyl or sales. Possession for sales. Not possession, but possession for sales. They put a detainer on you. So now you get fingerprinted in jail. It goes through the system, it lets HSI know that that person's in custody and they look and they say, hey, he's had weapons charges, he's been deported twice, all this stuff. They send the detainer over and say hey, hold him for us because we're going to take him when he's released. They dump it in the garbage. Now if you were able to let them have those people in the jail, I honestly believe they wouldn't be running around taking people out.

[Sam]

Yeah, I mean you've got Stephen Miller who said that the goal is to have 3,000 people deported every single day. And it is very hard to hit those numbers and make sure that they're all criminals. So that's why we're having people who are. You know, I will never forget the story. A friend of mine reported on this story of Estella and Nori, a mother and a daughter. Daughter, high school athlete, straight A student, amazing mom has been living her, she's been living here since she was very, very young. The mother, hard worker, raised her family here in the United States has never committed a crime in her. I mean she's not a criminal and she was. And they were both deported to Honduras and before they were deported they were picked up. They were going to their immigration proceedings in court, they were picked up, they took away her, she had medication that she needed, life saving medication, they took it away. And then a few days later she arrives in Honduras, a place that she barely knows anymore. The daugh doesn't remember a thing from Honduras. And then she passed away. She died because she didn't have the medication she needed and the daughter is still stuck there. These are really sad stories. These are not the criminals, these are not the people selling fentanyl on their streets.

[Brit Elmore]

They're really sad and they fall through the cracks because they get caught up. And I don't think it's.

[Sam]

And because it shouldn't be a number, it shouldn't be go out there and criminally catching $3,000.

[Brit Elmore]

Correct.

[Sam]

Let's find the worst of the worst. The people that are actually harming Americans and deport them. But not the people going to their court proceedings and no, no people. You know the story of the father who's sorry, I'm taking Over.

[Brit Elmore]

No, no, no. You're absolutely.

[Sam]

But I do want to hear.

[Brit Elmore]

I believe you're absolutely right. I just think they should let them have them at the jail.

[Sam]

Yeah, yeah, but why don't they, then?

[Brit Elmore]

Sanctuary city. Those laws, SB54. And if you look up SB54 and use perplexity like you said, sponsors you, because I've seen your other ones. It'll show you asked for a loophole, and it'll say that the judges use that as a trigger. So, okay, so this will. I'll explain it. If I'm an undocumented worker and I sell fentanyl to an officer, when it goes to court, the public defender goes up to the judge and says, he's an undocumented. So the judge says, okay, what are we going to do? So we're going to charge him with a 32 PC. 32 PC is that you were involved in a felony of some sort, in conspiracy. It doesn't say what it is. So these guys, when I would adopt federal cases on them, it would show they've had, like, 20, 30, 32 PCs. They mean nothing. You can't charge off those. So what it meant is I. It doesn't trigger. By charging somebody with a 32 PC, it doesn't trigger the federal system. So they let them do it. They let them do it. They let them do it. And if I'm citizen and I'm selling to an officer, if I asked for a 32 PC, they'd be like, that's ridiculous. You sold to an officer, you're getting charged for sales to an officer. So they're saying they think they're helping, but they're really not. And what will happen is we'll arrest a guy federally, but he's got six open charges in San Francisco out on. No bail on any of them, released, no ankle monitoring, no nothing. No, stay away from the Tenderloin. Lives in Oakland, and he has 2 pounds of fentanyl total off of all his arrests. 2 pounds. Can sprinkle 2 pounds in a helicopter over the Tenderloin. He'd kill everybody. So I go pick him up. Then he asked me where I'm going. I go, are you going to court? And he's laughing. He thinks it's all funny. And then I start driving towards the Fed building, and he's like, we're not going to court. I go, no. Going to federal building, being federally charged. Oh, my God, that laughing turns into crying, dragging his feet. No, no, no, I won't do it anymore. I'm so Sorry. And it was like, it's two different things between the state and the federal system. And the state system's not helping. When you look it up and it says. When you look it up and it says it's used not to trigger the federal system, it's. I mean, I just don't think that's fair. I don't think that's fair on anybody's part. You know, so what they do is they walk right up and they go, hey, he's undocumented. And the judge like, well, I'm not gonna, not gonna charge him with the felony that we have to notify the feds with. So we'll give him something less. Or you'll have the judge tell them. I've seen it up to eight times in three months. I see you in here again, I'm gonna hold you. I see you in here again, I'm gonna hold you. Eight charges of sales, possession for sales of fentanyl.

[Sam]

And they just keep doing it.

[Brit Elmore]

They just keep coming out and doing.

[Sam]

Yeah. Again, I really think that those are the people that should be deported. But unfortunately that's not what's happening right now.

[Brit Elmore]

No. And I don't think it's. I don't think it'll change there very soon.

[Sam]

What do you mean?

[Brit Elmore]

I don't think anybody's ever going to come to an agreement on it.

[Sam]

When you say you have friends who are ICE agents, what do they say about their feelings? What do they think about all these raids, about actually going out on these rates and, you know, knowing.

[Brit Elmore]

They constantly say, just let us go to the jails. Don't make us run around, chase everybody down and look for one target. But now that target's with 15 other people. Now all 15 have to go. Women, kids, everything. Just give us the jails back. And I understand it's a sanctuary city, but you need to. Everybody needs to bend a little bit. Lifelock, how can I help?

[Sam]

The IRS said I filed my return, but I haven't.

[Brit Elmore]

One in four tax paying Americans has paid the price of identity fraud.

[Sam]

What do I do?

[Brit Elmore]

My refund, though. I'm freaking out.

[Sam]

Don't worry, I can fix this.

[Brit Elmore]

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[Sam]

I'm so relieved.

[Brit Elmore]

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[Sam]

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[Brit Elmore]

That's correct.

[Sam]

Do you think that. Is there a sense that that's generally what ICE agents around the country think, or.

[Brit Elmore]

Yes. And I now, I think it's frustration now. I think all the stuff that's happening is frustration. I mean, it goes back to just police officers in general. I hate to jump back now, but when I used to work the war demos, I had a stick for the demonstrations. You stayed over there and I stayed over here. You get within any, any length of my stick, I'm gonna hit you.

[Sam]

Right. This is what war, what demonstration against.

[Brit Elmore]

It was in the 2000s.

[Sam]

Okay. Anyway. But demonstrations against wars. Yeah, yeah.

[Brit Elmore]

And they would go crazy and stuff and be. That's fine. But I'm gonna respect you. You're gonna respect me. You get within four feet of my stick, I'm going to hit you with it. Now, you can't hit anybody with a stick. And they get up inside your face and they touch you and they do all this stuff and it's just showing disrespect to law enforcement. And you get hit with snowballs, you get hit with water bottles, you get hit with. I think it just becomes this frustration thing and I think that. I just think it just needs to calm down.

[Sam]

Yeah. Have you seen throughout your career in law enforcement a sort of change in the way that you are perceived?

[Brit Elmore]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And I mean, a lot of it started during the Floyd incident. Yes. It started where There was demos in San Francisco. And, you know, people were just like, I hate you. I'd be like, they would like, oh, yeah, it's this.

[Sam]

It's this thing that people have that it's. They just want to. There's one bad cop or, you know, a bunch of bad cops, and then everybody. They're all bad. Right.

[Brit Elmore]

It's like, okay, if you take ICE agents right now, I don't watch a lot of news, but what I see on the ICE agents now, they're picking on the local cops in the demonstrations. Right. It's like, those are two different things, right?

[Sam]

No, so totally different.

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah.

[Sam]

And. But there is. It's interesting. I wanted to ask you, because it's not every day that I have law enforcement on my podcast. When you look, if you don't mind talking about this, but when you look at the video of the woman in Minnesota and Minneapolis being shot by the ICE agent, if you being law enforcement in that situation, if you were trying to stop a car or trying to get a car to move, which is initially what they were trying to do to get her to move because she was blocking, apparently blocking the patrol cars from moving. What are you trained to do in that situation if you were in front of the car, like the ICE agents that eventually shot her?

[Brit Elmore]

Well, the feds have different. I'm not using this as a cop out. The feds have a different set of standards. In San Francisco, when I first came in, we were shooting at cars all the time. Not me, per se, but if you came out, if you came flying down the street and you were pointing your car at me, you were getting shot. And then it was like, you will not shoot at moving vehicles. And then our general orders change. You won't shoot at a moving vehicle unless that moving vehicle has something inside the car that can kill you. Like if that person had a gun and was shooting or the guy's pointing a gun at you. So our laws have got really strict, like with San Francisco, our general orders.

[Sam]

And how often are law enforcement officers being killed by moving cars targeted towards them?

[Brit Elmore]

I don't know if they're being killed, but. But that just shows another thing that, like, we were kind of talking about the disrespect. Every time you arrest somebody, now it's a fight. Every time you try to pull somebody over, it's a car chase. And then you're responsible if that person hit somebody because they're saying you caused it by chasing him. So it's never an easy thing anymore. Nobody complies and if you just comply, that nobody would get hurt, the officers or the person. But what happens is, like, you. You work a demo in San Francisco and they block the intersections and they start throwing frozen water bottles at you and paint at you and all this stuff, and you arrest a bunch of them, judge dismisses them. So that just goes to show that there's. The judge shows no respect towards the officers either. So then they have to do it again. So that's why I kind of think a lot of this is frustration, you know, is caused by frustration.

[Sam]

Yeah. And I understand that, and I do see that there's a growing lack of respect for law enforcement. And I see it, too. And I, you know. Yeah, I've been in those conversations myself and have seen it. But I do think that there is. If you look at the video, I don't want to get too granular on this, but you can see that you can get out of the way. There wasn't. It wasn't. I don't think there's any training of law enforcement that tells you that in that situation that the best thing is to throw. Shoot this woman three times in the head.

[Brit Elmore]

If you can get out of the way. Let's say you can get out of the way, but you also don't have to retreat. An officer doesn't have to retreat. So I could hold my ground. And I'm not saying that's what he did. I'm not saying. I don't really know because I wasn't there. And I'm kind of.

[Sam]

She wasn't coming at great speed. She was.

[Brit Elmore]

No, but they also said she was scared and was trying to drive away. And then they just showed the body on camera of her laughing. I mean, there's so many different.

[Sam]

Right.

[Brit Elmore]

There's so many different sides to all this. And. And I just think it's frustration with everybody.

[Sam]

I also think it doesn't help the image of law enforcement in this situation if there's a woman trying to get away and you see an officer pick up his gun and an agent in this case, he's not. He's a federal. But. And shoot this woman three times and then call her a. Yeah, it doesn't help with the image.

[Brit Elmore]

No, it doesn't. It doesn't. But it also doesn't help when you have the mayor and the governor saying, stay out there and continue to do this. You know, it's somebody's. Someone's got to finally come to their senses and just. Everything needs to calm down.

[Sam]

Yeah. In general. Everything needs to Calm down.

[Brit Elmore]

But it's like, nobody ever talks about, just give the people from the jail. Nobody ever talks about that. That never comes up. Because it's sanctuary city. It's not going to happen.

[Sam]

Well, right, but it's not sanctuary city right now. I mean, they're going to San Francisco.

[Brit Elmore]

No, no, no, no, I'm saying.

[Sam]

Right.

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah, because they're doing it on their own now. They're like, you don't give us a jail, then we're just going to start shaking trees and see who falls out. That's what, that's what they do. But, but nobody ever comes back to like, just give them the jail. You know, I, I see that because I work law enforcement and I see those guys tell me all the time, dude, you give us a jail and we're not out here running around trying to find bodies.

[Sam]

Yeah, but why try to find bodies? The idea is to find criminals, not bodies.

[Brit Elmore]

No, these guys get released and they see. Because they see their fingerprints and they know the day they got released and they got released on child molestation charges, they got released on weapons charges, they got released on six fentanyl sales, they got released on all this. So they start hunting them now.

[Sam]

Yeah, but go after those people.

[Brit Elmore]

No, but while they're going after those people, they're finding all these other people. Get caught up in the mix. If you walk in a house and you grab 10, and there's 10 of them in there and you grab him, you can't walk back out. You can't just say, I'm just here to take him. I gotta. By rights, I have to ID every one of you. If I do a search warrant in a house, as an officer, I gotta ID everybody inside that house. I gotta run everybody in the house. And they all have to be listed in my report.

[Sam]

I understand that part, but that's not what's happening. I mean, we're seeing there's another case of a guy who was in front of a. I don't. Basically weed whacking. He's a gardener. Was weed whacking. And the car, the truck show up, this guy again, clean record. Three of. Or he has three sons. Two or three of them were in the, Were in the military.

[Brit Elmore]

No, Those are very unfortunate. Pulling into Home Depot a lot is very unfortunate. Yes. I, I mean, I don't agree with that, but I also agree with them being able to go into the jail and take. Who needs to go home, go home

[Sam]

100% and that that's what was supposedly going to happen. I mean, that's what President Trump ran on.

[Brit Elmore]

It hasn't even got close that. I mean, in San Francisco, the sheriff's office is like, absolutely not. We're not telling you when they're getting released. We're not helping you. And some of these people have done some really heinous stuff, and they're like, no, they're getting released just like everybody else.

[Sam]

You shouldn't be allowed to come to our streets and sell drugs. And.

[Brit Elmore]

And, you know, and the thing is, a lot of it is the victim crimes, like the robberies, the rapes, the child molestations, all those ones are just fucking terrible. And you're letting them out and they're just like, nope, sanctuary city. You know, I just. I don't know.

[Sam]

Yeah, it's interesting. I was. I'm glad we have the opportunity to talk about this, because I think something. You get so siloed into your own news funnels, and sometimes it's good to hear.

[Brit Elmore]

I'm not the type of person who. I'm not, like, I'm law enforcement. I have to agree with everything. No, no, no. I got my own.

[Sam]

Good, good. Okay, let's go back then, to your life. How did it move from the spitters? Tell me a little bit about that time and then how did it progress from there?

[Brit Elmore]

Well, I mean, once the crack era was on for a while, you started seeing methamphetamine come into place, and methamphetamine got big for a while, because if you did meth, boy, you were high all day. So they got big bang for their buck.

[Sam]

Was the meth at the time? Is it when the meth was being made here in the United States?

[Brit Elmore]

It wasn't the crank. No. They started introducing crystal, and then that became a big thing that I bought undercover was crystal. I would buy 10, 20 pounds of crystal at a time.

[Sam]

But where was it coming from?

[Brit Elmore]

Mexico. In superlabs. Superlabs were pumping out like £500 a day.

[Sam]

Right. I visited one of these superlabs.

[Brit Elmore]

Oh, did you?

[Sam]

I filmed inside one. Yeah.

[Brit Elmore]

That's crazy.

[Sam]

Yeah. And it was. Yeah. So impressive. They had a whole operation, an outdoor operation and some in the Sierra Madres in Sinaloa. And it was like, massive. Massive. Yeah, it was crazy. And. Yeah. And then they. They were shipping in trucks in sort of. I think. I believe it was agriculture trucks.

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah, they were. They. And they liquefy it and they put it in the tanks of the big trucks and they come through and. And. But. But it was. I would buy, like, when it first came out, I was paying, like, $7,500 a pound for meth, and it was 99% pure. And then when I was leaving, 900 bucks a pound.

[Sam]

No way.

[Brit Elmore]

And it would show, like, 94 to 96% pure.

[Sam]

It's just because it was inundated with the product. And so you saw this. You started this, started coming in, and then you saw people what the effect that this was having on people.

[Brit Elmore]

Yes, yes. Meth became like. Yeah. And what's weird is people can function on meth. So you weren't just seeing these zombies, like fentanyl zombies or crack addicts. You'd see people pull in and UPS trucks, FedEx trucks, kids in Catholic school uniforms, you know, just grabbing a little meth.

[Sam]

Right. Doctors, lawyers.

[Brit Elmore]

I interviewed everybody, everybody.

[Sam]

And. And so what kind of buy? So you were. Basically, how were the buys happening at the time when you started doing buys like that for larger quantities?

[Brit Elmore]

I went up to the feds, and then they. What will happen is you'll arrest a guy federally, and he'll be like, I'll introduce Brit, and I'll let him take over for me as long as I don't get stung really hard on charges. So they would bring me in and they would introduce, and he'd be like, hey, this is my guy. He buys more than I can handle, so just deal directly with him.

[Sam]

And at this point, you worked for how long for the San Francisco Police Department?

[Brit Elmore]

Well, 2009. I went up to DEA. I was doing stuff for them before, but then when I went up to dea, I was just. I was just doing a lot of undercover, just everything for. I would do it for atf, buy guns, hsi. I'd buy guns. And dope. Dea, I would buy. Buy dope.

[Sam]

So all these agencies would basically call you and say, hey, we've got a case for you.

[Brit Elmore]

I got a guy that can turn you onto a guy selling guns. Can you. Can you be the buyer?

[Sam]

So, and what was that?

[Brit Elmore]

Like, it's a rush. It's a rush. You know, it got to where I was meeting guys buying 10, 10, 15 guns at a time. Rifles, 100 round drums, all kinds of stuff.

[Sam]

And these were people who were not, I'm assuming, allowed to be selling guns.

[Brit Elmore]

Yes. And then I would have to let them know I'm a felon. Like, like on the video, because you

[Sam]

were filming all of this, and a

[Brit Elmore]

lot of it was filmed. I very rarely went to court because it was laid out to where their. Their lawyer was like, dude, you're done. Do not try to take this to trial.

[Sam]

How did you film? Can you tell me what you did?

[Brit Elmore]

A bunch of different cameras. We had a bunch of electronic things that we would use. A whole bunch of them. What kind of button cameras? Cameras that are hanging off of things on your neck. Hats. I mean, there'd be so many different things that you would wear.

[Sam]

And were you alone during these operations?

[Brit Elmore]

Yes. I had a whole team behind me.

[Sam]

Right.

[Brit Elmore]

But it was just me there. Yeah. Yeah.

[Sam]

So tell me. Yeah. How. How would you. What was. How would you get people to trust you?

[Brit Elmore]

And I get them to trust me pretty quick, and I wasn't pushy on them. That's another thing I never did. I never got pushy. Like forcing someone to do something because it didn't look good in court. I would want them to come to me and be like, hey, I just got another gun. Or I just got a really cool rifle you wanted, or I just got five pounds of meth and you want to buy a couple? So I would do that. I wouldn't. I wouldn't be on them. And I would also hold my prices straight. If you told me to sell me something for 3,000 bucks, I paid 3,000. When I showed up, and you go, hey, I gotta charge you 35? I'd be like, I ain't paying 35. I'm paying 3,000. That's. That's what we agreed on. Because if I said 35, they'd be like. Like, oh, this guy's a cop. He just wants to buy. He just wants to do the buy, right? Yeah.

[Sam]

And people trusted you?

[Brit Elmore]

Oh, they trusted me so much. They drove my wife crazy. I mean, I had a. I had a burner phone that rang all night.

[Sam]

From your contacts?

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah, on my nightstand. And it would be like, hey, I just got a gun. Hey, come out with us. Hey, what are you doing? They want to. I would go over to people's houses and eat with them and stuff.

[Sam]

Give me one example.

[Brit Elmore]

There was a gang member out of Redwood City, and he got introduced to me over the phone. And then me and him just clicked. And he was selling me Glocks with fully auto Glocks with a switch on them with 100 round drum. So I started buying those from him. I started buying rifles from them. And then he was like, it, dude, Just come to my house. So I would go to his house, and he lived in the garage and with his brothers and them. And he was older, and his mom and grandmother were there and giving me food, and we got guns on the bed. And.

[Sam]

And yeah, and that's what he did for a living. He sold guns.

[Brit Elmore]

Dope guns. I bought meth from them, too.

[Sam]

And then what happened to that guy?

[Brit Elmore]

He got arrested, and he immediately pledged because he knew he was.

[Sam]

So when they get arrested, the majority of times, do they know it was because of your undercover work?

[Brit Elmore]

They do. Sometimes they don't believe it, but what happens is the defense gets the discovery, and then they come in and they go, hey, I used to use Carlos a lot. They used to be like, carlos was a cop. And they're like, no fucking way, dude.

[Sam]

So your name was Carlos?

[Brit Elmore]

That's the name I mainly use.

[Sam]

Okay.

[Brit Elmore]

Yes.

[Sam]

And they were like, no, no way. This guy was. Was the cop?

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah.

[Sam]

Really was there?

[Brit Elmore]

Sometimes they did. Yeah. We did a big operation called Operation Cold Day, where it was a warehouse, and it was chp, atf, dea, sfpd, and Daily City pd. And it was this warehouse that was set up, and it had had like, 20 cameras and audio inside. They built a warehouse inside a warehouse. So there were guys in the back running joysticks. Cameras, screens, filming. They had a room where guys were standing there with all their tactical stuff on in case things got shitty. The wall would come down and they can come out and start shooting. So we had this warehouse. They called it Operation Cold Day because they wanted to do it in San Francisco. Gascon was our chief at the time, and Gascon said, it'll be a cold day in hell when you put one of those operations on in San Francisco. So they took it it about 100 yards outside San Francisco and set the warehouse up there. So what it was was ATF brought a bunch of mercenaries in. And mercenaries are guys they. They get paid just to go out and find people selling dope, guns, stolen cars, all this. So they bring a bunch of their mercenaries in from other states.

[Sam]

But this is law enforcement, too. They're also law enforcement or. Who are they?

[Brit Elmore]

No, no, no. They're informants.

[Sam]

Oh, in four months. Okay.

[Brit Elmore]

That used to use that got caught and started working for them.

[Sam]

Right.

[Brit Elmore]

And they get paid to go out.

[Sam]

I've never heard that term applied to. To basically to cis. To confidential informants or mercenaries.

[Brit Elmore]

Mercenaries. Like, they do it for the pay.

[Sam]

Okay.

[Brit Elmore]

They don't get anything for it, of course, except pay. Yeah. So they come out and they just cover the streets, man. Hey, I'm out here now. I'm looking for guns, looking for dope. And they would direct them to me. It was me, Luis, Jared, Alex. We were the buyers at this warehouse. So they would call my phone and they'd be like, hey man, I got a guy I'm sending to you right now. Answer the phone. So I would answer and the guy would be like, hey, man, I heard you're buying things. I'd be like, yeah. So he'd come up to the warehouse. There was like 15 cameras on the outside. There was a surveillance team outside that can make any traffic stops or do anything or follow the guy off if we didn't idm. And then inside, there was this whole g sock center that was running all this stuff. So door rolls up, car comes in, guy comes out, brings his rifle out. I look at it, I mean, we would have ten grand a day that we would have to spend on stuff. So I'd buy guns, I'd buy dope, I'd buy stolen cars. And this one guy really clicked with me. He was. I thought he was like my younger brother. He thought. And he was just bringing all these people in, and when it came out, he cried like a baby, man. He was like, there's no way Carlos

[Sam]

was a cop because you hung out with this guy a lot.

[Brit Elmore]

He would come in and hang out at the warehouse and stuff and just

[Sam]

hang out with you guys. And what.

[Brit Elmore]

I would pay him for bringing people in. So.

[Sam]

And what were you saying that you. Why were you buying? What were you telling them? The story was?

[Brit Elmore]

We were on a fencing operation. And then we would tell them that.

[Sam]

Can you explain what a fencing operation?

[Brit Elmore]

Fencing operation would be Stolen goods, illegal goods that I would buy and then I would sell resell. So the warehouse was, I'm buying guns, dope, stolen cars, and I'm reselling these outside the state. So guys would come in and they would sell me like a rifle, and I'd be like, hey, dude, is there blood on this? Like, has it been used? And some of them would say, yeah, there is. So. And I would hold it with gloves, cotton gloves, because I didn't want to get my prints on it because I'm a crook too, you know. So they would come in. As soon as that guy left, they'd come in, they'd swab it, they would take it, test it, and they'd find out if it was used in a murder or a shooting. And we ended up with 125 arrests. Wow. In 18 month period.

[Sam]

And so that was arrest not just of the people that were coming to sell at that exact time, but also it led to bigger investigations into where the gun was used or was making the charges.

[Brit Elmore]

No, that would take place after this was just. Just people who come from.

[Sam]

People who would come. 125.

[Brit Elmore]

It was 125 or 135? Yes.

[Sam]

What period? A month?

[Brit Elmore]

18 months.

[Sam]

18 months, okay.

[Brit Elmore]

And they would have to sell me consecutive stuff. It couldn't be a one off because if you come up and sell me a stolen car. Car. It's hard to go to court to say this guy's a prolific.

[Sam]

Right.

[Brit Elmore]

Car thief. Or if you sold me one gun, it'd be like, well, he kind of fell upon it. So you would sell me multiples. I'd buy multiples from you all the time. So that you are a gun trafficker or you are a dope seller. And then I had people come in. Like, I had this one girl come in. She was going to college. She had a kid. She was a single mom. She was bringing me these cars and I was.

[Sam]

Cars that she was stealing.

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah, but you. I was like, I didn't want to. She. She wasn't a crook. So I was like, dude, you're bringing these cars and they're. Get the out of here. Don't come back. What? I was like, get the out of here, man. I don't need your shitty cars.

[Sam]

You're trying to get her to not.

[Brit Elmore]

I didn't want to come in back and continue to do it. She was going to college. She was a single mom. I mean, what she's doing is really wrong. But I had real crooks coming in, you know, And I thought, she doesn't fall in that category. So they're like, some of the people's. Not all of them. Some of them are like, whoa, why'd you blow her off? Like, dude, I don't want her here. She's got no business getting wrapped up in this. And she got charged for a stolen car. But I mean, big deal, right?

[Sam]

And was there ever a situation where it got so hairy that they had to break down the walls and come in with the tactical gear?

[Brit Elmore]

No. It would get shitty in there. There. It would get shitty in that warehouse, arguing over money and stuff.

[Sam]

What was the worst case that you had there?

[Brit Elmore]

Well, one of the cases I had was if they have a gun, they can't leave.

[Sam]

So I had with them, if they have a gun with them, that they're not leaving.

[Brit Elmore]

And I would see guns on them, but I wouldn't say anything because you

[Sam]

wanted them to leave and come back.

[Brit Elmore]

I don't want to compromise this investigation. We spent so much time and they've spent so much resources building this place out and I was like, dude, I hate this. Go down on one gun on. So I buy a couple pounds of meth from these Pacific Islanders. And then he tells the other one, show them what you got. So he pulls out this Glock auto and I'm like, oh, it's on camera. So I'm like, how much you want for that? He's like, not for sale. And he puts it back in. And I'm like, I'll give you 1500 bucks for it. He was like, no, I gotta give you 2,000 for it.

[Sam]

Because you just wanted the gun to stay there so that you could continue?

[Brit Elmore]

Yes. I don't want this thing compromised and I don't want a car chase. I don't want it coming out later. Oh, he was at a warehouse and then that place gets burned. So I'm like, give you 2,000, I'll give you 25. And I'm telling the other Pacific Islander dude, tell them, sell me the gun. He's like, you don't sell it. And they're like, we'll bring you one. Swear to God, I'll bring you one this week just like it. I'm like, no, I want that one. I need that one. That I have a customer that wants that one. So I get up to like 3500 bucks.

[Sam]

No way. For a gun that probably costs like a thousand dollars.

[Brit Elmore]

A thousand dollars. So the other guy tells him, dude, you better sell that because you could turn around and buy another one and have a, you know, grip of money in your hand, right? So he sell to me for 35. And I thought, oh yeah, I did a good job. So then the warehouse rolls down and then they all come out, because they would come out and clean everything up and get the gun and get the evidence and do all this stuff. And I remember one of the bosses going, you paid 3, 500 bucks for that? And I was like, what do you want me to do? What you guys gonna try to stop him leaving? I go and compromise this case. And then I was like, you do it then, then you know, dude, I go, these two 300 pound Pacific Islanders, I'm not going to get in a fight with them over this, you know. So it was, it was stuff like that.

[Sam]

That's so crazy. What did you guys do with all the guns and the drugs and the stolen cars?

[Brit Elmore]

All of it gets booked. The shitty thing with the stolen cars is the stolen cars would come in and they would have like onstar. So then somebody would call and go, my car got stolen and it's Showing up at this warehouse. So CHP would have to grab it right away because they were in charge of the car. Cars take it down to a warehouse where they can get it inside and not have the onstar hit it, hit off it.

[Sam]

Because then the owners of those cars would probably come and look for their cars in the drug bus was open.

[Brit Elmore]

Or they would call Colma pd. The small little PD that we ran. And Colma didn't know we were doing it. Nobody knew we were doing this. This was a very, like, quiet operation. So, yeah, it was. It was a lot of fun.

[Sam]

How many guns and drugs did you get guys bus through this?

[Brit Elmore]

Oh, 50 plus guns, a bunch of meth, ecstasy, pills, a lot of different pills. Probably 50 plus stolen cars.

[Sam]

Wow. What is your. What. What are your thoughts on. So you're. It's interesting to me, like, the idea that you are paying this guy, for example, the guy that you paid $35,000 or $3,500, and he leaves. They leave with these wads of cash that you gave them. Was there any part of you that thought. But I mean, we're basically paying. Paying all these gangs and cartel members and whatnot?

[Brit Elmore]

No, no, I didn't, I didn't. I was having fun. I was getting ten grand in the. In the beginning and going, okay, let's see what we can sell and do it. And they. And they got their. They got their time. Mean, federal's no joke. Federal cases are no joke. So they would get federal and the

[Sam]

majority of them would come back. It was. The majority of them wasn't just the one by.

[Brit Elmore]

No, no, they would come back. Back. They would come back. Yeah. One seen me in court one day and I was talking to some cops, and he went, told some people like, hey, dude, Carlos is a copper, a snitch. Because I seen him at court talking to some cops, and I know those guys were cops. So then a couple people called me. A couple of the crooks called me and were like, hey, dude, this guy's saying that you were down at court. I said, I was at court. I have a court case. And they said you were talking to some of the cops. I might have been talking to the cops, but. But I didn't. Oh. So then I called that guy up. I was like, hey, dude, what's your problem? He was like, nothing. I was like, don't come around the warehouse no more. And he was like, what do you mean? I said, dude, do not come around this warehouse no more. I said, you take my name out of your Mouth. And then he brought me a stolen car. He wanted to give it to me. Are we good? I'm like, yeah, we're good, dude.

[Sam]

Oh, shit.

[Brit Elmore]

That's the only time I got, like, like, fronted out.

[Sam]

Was that the only time? I mean.

[Brit Elmore]

No, no. At the warehouse. At the warehouse.

[Sam]

Okay. At the warehouse. Because you were also. You're working underco in the community that you also hang out in, I'm assuming, and live. Were there cases where situations in which you were. You had arrested somebody and then you saw them out on the streets and they recognized you as a person responsible for his arrest?

[Brit Elmore]

I've seen a couple people when we were doing, like, that warehouse, when we were doing Operation Cold Day, these young kids were selling me rifles, assault rifles, like. Like AR13. And then what would happen is I was at Trader Joe's by my house house. And I'm looking, and he's one of the kids pushing, collecting carts. And I was like, I gotta get out of here. So I went around and left and. And, yeah, I didn't want to. So I didn't get fronted out and that.

[Sam]

So that never happened.

[Brit Elmore]

I think I. I had guys like in the Tenderloin sell me dope and go, man, I ain't seen you in a while. I was like, I know, I've been in jail. And then they sell to me and they're like, oh, fuck, he's a cop. Because I arrested. Because he sold to me and got arrested right six months prior. That's happened a lot because it's greed. They see people, like, getting in line to buy dope, and they're just like, hey, what's up? And they're just, like, putting the dope out. And he see me and he goes. After he put it in my hand, he goes, realized, oh, yeah, it's greed. Greed makes these guys. Greed makes these guys think different.

[Sam]

Was there any situation where you thought that you're. That it got really dangerous, that you thought your life was on the lane?

[Brit Elmore]

I had one guy was buying all these guns from these. This Latin guy and this black guy out of San Jose. And he was real shifty, the Latin kid. His face was all tattooed. He had scorpions on his ears. He had the Mexico area code tattooed inside his ears. And he was. I got introduced to him, and I was buying probably 10 guns at a time from them. And every time he would give me my last gun, he would pull it out of his belt, unload it, and then hand it to me. So he had told the informant, I'm gonna Rob Carlos because. Because I would have, like, 10 grand on me. And he was like, dude, you better not rob him. He goes, that won't be good because

[Sam]

the guy at the informant, obviously.

[Brit Elmore]

So he calls up and goes, hey, dude, he's gonna rob you. So I was like, it. I want to go. I want to see him do it, you know? I mean, I. It was kind of a high to me, like. Like, go ahead and try. So I got behind the seat, and he was doing his whole thing, and he was unload the gun. And I pulled my gun out and I had it against the seat. And I'm watching him, and he's kind of looking back at me, and he's unloading. And I go, why do you always load? Why he always give me a gun that's loaded? Oh, no, I just do it for the drive down. I was like, you want to rob me? And he was like, no, no, I wouldn't do that to you, Carlos. I was like, really? But I had my gun pushed in the back of the seat where he was sitting. If he tried, I would just lit him up.

[Sam]

So, wow, it. Why? And so do you think he just, like, changed his mind on the spot or what happened? Why do you think he ended up not robbing you?

[Brit Elmore]

Well, I think the informant was telling him, like, dude, he'll kill your whole family, dude, if you try to kill him. You know? So, I mean, I think that helped a lot. The informant helped a lot.

[Sam]

Wow. And this was on tape? You filmed us?

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah.

[Sam]

So did. Did you ever work with other cops with. That were with you that thought that you were a little crazy, that you pushed things too far?

[Brit Elmore]

Oh, yeah, like, they all did. They all did, because that was. That was my high, you know? And like, you're not supposed to go into a house. You're not supposed to ride in a crook's car. Not crook, but you're not supposed to ride a guy who's selling me something's car. And I did. I would go in houses, I'd go in cars. I would. I would be off the grid for a little bit, but they trusted me.

[Sam]

Right. When you say you're not supposed. It's not that it's. It's against the rules, is. It's more. It's not smart to do so because it can get you killed.

[Brit Elmore]

It's. It's not against the law for me to do it, but it wasn't written rules that you won't enter a house, but I would tell them, like, dude, if we want to do This. I got to be able to go in his house, and they would be like, oh, okay, go ahead. But, dude, don't be in there that long, because they. They don't know what I'm doing in there, you know? So they would. When I came out, they would be like, oh, because. Because they would be afraid they're going to get in trouble if something happened to me in there.

[Sam]

Right. Because they're all listening outside. They're waiting and making sure you're safe while you're doing it. It's. It's interesting. It. I think in many cases, it's much easier to be in the situation that you're in than it is the people around you.

[Brit Elmore]

I have control of what I'm doing. They have no control.

[Sam]

Exactly. You know, we had a situation, similar situation or producer of ours that I love. Paul, who. We were doing a story. We were going to film a story about drugs, actually, in. In Lebanon. And. And he went out there first to scout and sort of make contact, and we. The rest of the team, including myself, were going to fly there. I think it was like, the next day. And suddenly he. We got a text from him saying, hi, guys, we are. I'm about to be detained by Hezbollah, the terrorist organization. And they are question. They're gonna qu. They're gonna question me. So I'm gonna hide my phone, and as soon as I come up for air and I get my phone back, I will text and it was one of the worst moments. It was. It lasted like, two or three hours, and it was one of the worst moments of my life. Of our lives. My. I mean, we're a team.

[Brit Elmore]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sam]

And there's no control. But I've been in those situations where I've been questioned by groups like Hezbollah, and I didn't feel as nervous as I did being back home, not knowing what was happening with my.

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah, I feel like I'm on. Under control, and I kind of have the situation. Things can go sideways at any time. But, yeah, I know exactly what you're saying, because I come out and these guys are like, dude, don't do that again. You know? And I'm constantly like, hey, I'm gonna go. Go to his car. They're like, don't drive off with them. I'm like, yeah, sure. And then we drive off, and then they can't find me. And then I come roll them back in 10 minutes later. And I got the dope, and they're like, dude, come on, man.

[Sam]

No idea how much we were sweating out here. Well, so what do you think drives you?

[Brit Elmore]

You? I don't have any. I don't have any other vice. Like, I don't drink. I don't smoke. I think that was my. I think that was my. My high. And. And I. I've done some stuff, like, I've done some inmate stuff where I go into jail cells. I like that. I enjoyed that.

[Sam]

Oh, undercover stuff. What's that like?

[Brit Elmore]

Like, I've done it five times, I think, where they booked me into jail and then they put me in a cell with someone.

[Sam]

And you have to pretend that you're an inmate?

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah, I'm an inmate.

[Sam]

For how long? A day. Okay. Yeah, that's the maximum. Did you. You didn't have to sleep in prison?

[Brit Elmore]

No, no, no, I didn't stay. I stayed in. I stayed in the cell. I've done it a few times. I did. I did one. I can't talk about because it's going to court, but I did one where I traveled with that person for six hours.

[Sam]

And then. And so you're in prison with these people, and then what's the. What are you trying to get from them?

[Brit Elmore]

Them. They'll confess. They'll confess to me.

[Sam]

They do. They actually do.

[Brit Elmore]

They do.

[Sam]

No. And you're. You're wiretapped?

[Brit Elmore]

Yes. Yeah.

[Sam]

I mean, you're wearing a wire.

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah.

[Sam]

And then really, is. Is it. How. What do you, like, give me. What do you say?

[Brit Elmore]

Well, it's kind of a mind. Like, I had a kid who was a gang member, and he shot a. Shot a kid in the face over some drug deal, and he was in for another case. So they drove me in a transportation van, inmate clothes, put me in a cell with a bunch of guys, then dropped me in a cell with him. And he was like, oh, man, you're from prison. Because I was wearing red. And I was like, yeah. He's like, dude, I'm going to prison. You know? He was really looking forward to going away. And I started talking to him, and I was talking about his cases and stuff, and it came out to where he said, hey, man, I. The cops are trying to talk to me right now. I go, why? He goes, I shot a guy in the face. I was like, really? He's like, yeah, yeah. He stuck his head in the window of the car, and I just let him have it. And I was like, oh, okay. I was like, what'd you do with the gun? I hope you got rid of it. He was like, oh, we got stopped in. Out of town and. And It's. It's that one, but they don't know it is. And. And he. He goes, does it look like I have anything in my mouth? I'm like, no. So he pulls his lip down and he's got a kites. Do you know what kites are? Kites are what they pass around the jail. They take these little pieces of paper and they write.

[Sam]

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course I do. Yeah, of course.

[Brit Elmore]

Kites. In his mouth, he had a couple razor blades. So he was like. Told me about that. Told me what he did. Told me he killed that guy.

[Sam]

What was he going to do with the razor blades? Just for protection.

[Brit Elmore]

Protection, right. But he was trying to get the kites. He was going to court, so he wanted to get the kites to another gang member that's in another. Another area. Because they talk back and forth to each other. Well, he got. Because when they grabbed. When they were taking him out of court to go to court, they grabbed his face. They took the kites out. They took the razor blades out. He confessed to shooting the guy in the face to me.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Brit Elmore]

And on recording. And he was. He was no good with the gang because they got all the kites and stuff and they got the razor blades and they found out who he had talked out.

[Sam]

Cop. So he ended up doing a lot of time.

[Brit Elmore]

I don't know, I just go in and do it.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Brit Elmore]

And then I'm done.

[Sam]

And what. So what's your strategy? What's yours? How do you do it? Like, how do you get people to talk to you in those situations so. So fast and easily.

[Brit Elmore]

It's just. I don't know, it's just. I mean, the one that's opening, I. I got two right now that are pending cases, but one of them, I. I rode with that person for six hours as an inmate and just started talking and just opened up and.

[Sam]

Do you share things about your life?

[Brit Elmore]

Yes.

[Sam]

But your pretend life or your real life?

[Brit Elmore]

Yes, pretend life.

[Sam]

And what do you say? Things like what you make up, this. Is it always the same story?

[Brit Elmore]

If someone's in for a homicide, a murder, then I'm in there for a murder. So we relate to each other, and I'm more knowledgeable than you, so you can ask me questions about the system, you know, or something, you know? Yeah, yeah.

[Sam]

So it's connecting basically with that person or finding sort of common ground.

[Brit Elmore]

And I do that with. Like, I was doing that with everyone that I was meeting, like that I was buying guns or dope from. I kind of relate to them and they get their. Let their guard down. I feel kind of bad after they get arrested. In a sense. I don't. Because I catch myself and I go, no, is they're selling me guns or selling somebody gun that's out there killing somebody. Somebody. But it's, but it's. I don't. Can't say I feel bad. I just feel kind of weird because I, I did it, like act it. I act it and got them to, to open up to me. And then, and then boom. No, he was a cop with the.

[Sam]

You told me about the woman selling cars and she was, she had a kid. You felt bad. Were there other. Were there more situations where you're, you're feeling bad about it prevented you from going through with the, the investigation or the operation?

[Brit Elmore]

If, if I, if I'm buying dope or guns from somebody who's not a dope or gun seller, but they're trying to make 50 bucks off the gun or do something like that, I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it because that person's, that person's just. I mean, there's really real gun sellers and real dope sellers. Those are the ones I want. You know, we did a wire case this on this Latin group, cartel.

[Sam]

And do you remember what cartel it was?

[Brit Elmore]

I don't. And, and, but it was Mexican. Mexican cartel. Yeah. And what I did was I got introduced to a guy that was running dope and I was buying multiple pounds of meth from him. And he was, he only spoke English. So I'd be like, hey, how much can I. What are you selling heroin for? So I watched and he was translating on the phone in Latin or Spanish to somebody, and I go, what are you doing? He goes, oh, he only speaks Spanish. I go, well, let me talk to him. So he gave me the phone and I talked to him and asked him, hey, what's this going for? And he was like, who are you? I'm like, carlos. He goes, oh, you're just picking up two pounds of meth right now? I go, yeah. He goes, he goes, here's my phone number. You call me direct. Don't deal with him no more. So then I got onto him and then I started.

[Sam]

So he's a bigger fish.

[Brit Elmore]

He's bigger fish. So I start rolling with him and I'm buying multiple pounds. I'm buying heroin from him. Really clicking. He introduces me to the brother in law that's keeping it at his ranch and we're on a wire. So I'm on the phone talking and on the wire while I'm doing buys with him and stuff. And we wrap up probably 16 people for the wire. Good, good, good amount of dope. Like, a lot of dope. And when we hit all the houses, he's gone. So he wasn't there. He wasn't at his house. So he takes off and flees to Mexico. So he wasn't. He was in Sinaloa. So he starts calling me, and he was like, hey, Carlos, somebody ratted us off, man. He goes, all my guys are getting arrested. And I was like, really? He goes, yeah. And I go, I was trying to get a hold of you. So he's like. He's like, I'm in Mexico. So I'm like, okay. So he goes, you owe me some money. I go, yeah. He goes, here, wire it to me. So I wired it to him. He told me where to send it, the account, everything, and I did, so they can locate him. And I'm like, dude, I still need dope. And he was like, I'll just hook you up from here. So he started introducing me to a bunch of other guys. So I'm buying from these other guys multiple pounds of dope, and I'm sucking them into the case, too. And this went on for, like, probably like four, six months. And then all of a sudden, he was like, dude, it's you. And. And he. He came back last year, tried to cross the border and got caught. He wasn't. He wasn't undocumented. He. He was. He. He was.

[Sam]

He had papers.

[Brit Elmore]

Yes. He was born here.

[Sam]

He was. Wow. He's an American.

[Brit Elmore]

He's an American, but he's from Sinaloa, and his whole family's from Sinalo. So he went back there and hid, and then he tried to come back over and he got arrested. But it went on.

[Sam]

Last part of your case then.

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah, but it went on where he was like, oh, dude, another one of the other guys got picked off again.

[Sam]

How did you realize it was finally you?

[Brit Elmore]

I don't know, but he was just like, dude, something's wrong. I've turned you on to four other guys, and all those guys have been arrested. So, I mean, as long as I can keep a relationship with him, he. He trusted me.

[Sam]

Wow. That. That just shows how good you were at that. Getting people to trust you.

[Brit Elmore]

Good bullshitter, you know?

[Sam]

A good bullshitter, yeah. Which is a huge part of your job. I interviewed one guy. He was. We called him. He was an American guy. That guy didn't even Speak a word of Spanish. And he was one of the biggest distributors for the cartel here in the United States. Not a word of Spanish, and he was flying all his product. Basically, the cartel would send him. The cartel would decide what they wanted him to sell. It wasn't as if he would call the orders. The cartel would say, okay, I've got 10 kilos of fentanyl. I need you to sell it. They would ship him before he was even paid. They would just send him the drugs, and then so they would have him.

[Brit Elmore]

Basically, they would do that with me when I would buy. Like, if I bought 2 pounds of meth, they'd want to give me 4 because they want to keep me online.

[Sam]

That is such a fascinating tactic that they have.

[Brit Elmore]

But I don't want it because I'm paying for it. And I didn't want to. I want to. For court. I want to purchase what I'm getting. I don't want to be fronted and double the amount.

[Sam]

And so were you able to say, no, I just want the two.

[Brit Elmore]

It was hard. Or a lot of times I would back it up with extra money in case they try to sell me. In case they try to give me £4, I'd be like, well, fuck it, I'll just pay for it right now. Let me just get it all right now.

[Sam]

Because basically what they want to do is get you on the hook, because if you owe them money, then you have to keep selling for them. You can't leave.

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah, it was very common for them to do that. I tell them, I need 4 ounces of heroin or a pound of heroin. And they would say, hey, just take two. I got another one here, so just get rid of it and just pay me when you get it. Like, I can't do that. Wow.

[Sam]

Yeah, this guy was. Yeah. So they. They basically would ship him all these drugs or. Or get. He would get it into his hands, and then he was supposed to sort of distribute them to several different buyers across the US and he was shipping all the drugs using Delta Airlines, commercial airlines.

[Brit Elmore]

Oh, really?

[Sam]

Yeah. He'd use women a lot of times. Strippers to carry the drugs.

[Brit Elmore]

Yes.

[Sam]

Yeah. And Delta, because they had a really good price on. Or bag of luggage. Allowance.

[Brit Elmore]

Allowance. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. Yeah, it's. It's crazy. All the. All the things that people figure out that they can. They can get away with. Like. Like, it's a big thing to move dope. Or like the. The. The. The guy who was in Sinaloa, I get a call from Arizona. And they're like, hey, is this your guy? And I'm like, yeah. They're like, he's sending over 40 foot containers of snow globes, clothes, Christmas clothes, but it's got liquid meth in it.

[Sam]

Wow.

[Brit Elmore]

I mean, for them to go to that much work to put it in a snow globe that they have to take it out after. It's crazy. Yeah. I mean, but I mean, they're so. If they use. Resourced their intelligence for something else, they would be so successful.

[Sam]

Oh, that's what I find all the time, is that these are. Could possibly be the. The best.

[Brit Elmore]

Yes.

[Sam]

The best CEOs, the best entrepreneurs, the best business owners. They're really incredibly smart, talented people, hard workers. But a lot of times it's because of the environment. If you grew up in Sinaloa and everyone in your family is a drug trafficker, you're not suddenly going to become the head of a company that does

[Brit Elmore]

legal business like Mencho.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Brit Elmore]

He used to get arrested in San Francisco all the time selling dope on the corner.

[Sam]

Mencho. And Mencho from the cjng.

[Brit Elmore]

Yes.

[Sam]

No way.

[Brit Elmore]

Yes. When he was real young.

[Sam]

Wow.

[Brit Elmore]

And then he went back.

[Sam]

He's one of the most wanted men.

[Brit Elmore]

He's the man world. He's the man now. Yeah.

[Sam]

Wow.

[Brit Elmore]

It's funny. Like San Francisco, they have his pictures. You could bring his picture like from his old bookings. So. And this shows right now, like the, the Hondurans, they're so good at marketing because they were selling fentanyl and we were buying fentanyl and it's white, gray, just depending on what they cut it with. They cut it with mannitol, but whatever it is. And then all of a sudden you started getting pink and blue and purple and green and rainbow and. And I'd be buying fentanyl on the street and there'd be these people. I'm looking for green. Who's got green? All it is is fondant. Baking fondant.

[Sam]

Right. I saw it being made. We went to one of the houses

[Brit Elmore]

in Oakland and there's like 20 ninjas, blenders. And they would say on the wire, don't throw the red in with the paint because you're going to mess the blender up. Make sure you use the red for the red and the pink for the pink, you know, but they would market, they would be like, you buy the marketing thing. I got red. Red. I got red, you know?

[Sam]

Yeah. Because if you have your own, right. If it's not just fentanyl, if you have Your own. And somebody tries it, a user tries it and really likes it, then they're going to come back to you because they want that kind of fentanyl.

[Brit Elmore]

Right.

[Sam]

And then how did you did. Were you, did you ever bust any of the M30 pills?

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah, I used to buy like, I would buy like 50,000 at a time from, for the feds and, and they would sell on the street for. Let's say they depend whatever the market yield, but they pay like you'd pay like 10, 15 bucks for one. They would be 50 cents in Arizona.

[Sam]

Wow.

[Brit Elmore]

Across the border they're 50 cents a piece. Yeah. So I would buy like big amounts for the feds.

[Sam]

And those were also a great promotional tool, a great marketing tool, which was one of these look like the pharmaceutical.

[Brit Elmore]

Absolutely. And the one pill kills with DEA day. 40% of them have over. Have over 2 micrograms of fentanyl, which can overdose you. And if you, if somebody, if a real user's using it, they break it into fours now and they do a quarter, a quarter, a quarter because they don't want to take one at one time and be too much.

[Sam]

It's bananas. It's crazy. So you like, this is. You're seeing this not. You never expected something like this to happen like this. The kind of, of potency that this has, how dangerous it is, how many people.

[Brit Elmore]

No, the synthetics market had really, really, when it took over, man, it really ruined everything. It really like, I mean, Xylazine, fentanyl, you'll. You'll Narcan somebody. And because fentanyl, Fentanyl stops the respiratory system, it gets your respiratory down so

[Sam]

low that you eventually overdose.

[Brit Elmore]

Well, you want a borderline death.

[Sam]

Death.

[Brit Elmore]

And that's the best high you can get. So you're right there just barely breathing and that's your best high. Well, Xylazine does it to the heart. It slows the heartbeat down. So what happens is some guy's out and they narcanum. They Narcan him. He's not doing anything, so he's probably mixed with xylazine and his heart isn't. The Narcan does nothing for the heart, only for the respiratory system.

[Sam]

Yeah. And Xylazine, for people who don't know, is a animal tranquilizer that they started mixing with fentanyl. And the idea was that the fentanyl gives you a radio really big high. But unlike heroin, it doesn't last very long. But if you mix it with tranquilizer, with drink, with xylazine, then the, the high Lasts longer, but then it creates. What's the zombie effect that you see on the screen?

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah. Now you got a respiratory and a heart cardiac thing going on.

[Sam]

Yeah. And what's. Yeah, like you said, what's dangerous is that the Narcan isn't as.

[Brit Elmore]

Yes.

[Sam]

Doesn't work as well. Right. Yeah, it's. It's just crazy, the situation. So now you've been out. Out. You've been. Not you. You're not an undercover agent anymore. Officer anymore.

[Brit Elmore]

I'm still a sworn officer, so I have done some undercover stuff as a sworn officer still. I work as an investigator for an agency in San Francisco, but not the police department. And then I, I work executive protection driver for. For some wonderful family. That, that's really good to me. That, that, that I do.

[Sam]

Do you miss the undercover work?

[Brit Elmore]

Oh, yeah, I don't think I do. And then all of a sudden, like the couple of the going in and mate cells. I was. Is now that since I've been retired, the minute they asked, I was like, I'm in. Let's go. I wanted to do it.

[Sam]

Is your wife probably happy that you're not doing it as much?

[Brit Elmore]

I don't know. She.

[Sam]

She.

[Brit Elmore]

She was really good at grounding me because. Because she wouldn't let. She wouldn't let me think too much of myself. She would level me out. Like, come on, dude, take the garbage out. Come on, go pick the dog up outside. Like, come on, superstar. You know, so. Yeah, no, she. She's been really good about it. She's glad, I guess, that I don't have the long hours because I was working, I mean, 18 hour days a lot. 18 hour days, sometimes seven days a week. If we were up on a wire, it was every day for 30 days.

[Sam]

Brit, what do you think you mentioned, I mean, obviously you've gotten so many drugs and dangerous people off the streets and you've probably saved so many lives. What do you think needs to happen for. We talked about how the image of police, you know, there are so many people nowadays that don't respect the police and have a really bad image of the police. What do you think needs to happen for that to change? Because obviously, you know, you guys are doing very important work and it's necessary work work.

[Brit Elmore]

I just think we need a lot of leaders with common sense that don't pick sides and kind of know what's, what's the right thing to do, you know, this is the right thing to do, you know, and there's just too much friction.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Brit Elmore]

Too much Politics and two people locked on two sides locked themselves down and won't listen to the other side for any reason whatsoever. When. Which. I'm not like that. Obviously you're not like that. And that's, that's the problem up there.

[Sam]

Right. I think. Yeah. It's when politics gets involved and every decision is made not for the. What's best for the, for the country or for the community, but what's best for re election or what's best for my party or what's best for, you know, the.

[Brit Elmore]

Yes, yes. And I think money, I mean you see, you hear about all this, this money being wasted and taken and it needs to be used towards, towards rehabilitation, towards mental health. It's a problem when you arrest somebody with a mental health issue because the judge says, I'm not putting him in custody, he's got a mental issue or she has a mental issue. And I'm not putting them. Jail is not the place for them to go. Well, then there's nowhere for them to go

[Sam]

because they're not enough beds.

[Brit Elmore]

No. When you had Napa Hospital up in Northern California, that was a detention center for. They would, they would hold you there if you had mental, mental issues and you couldn't leave. There's no, there's nothing like that can force people to stay now. So what do they do? They wander the street. There has to be somewhere where you can take them. Them for their own good and hold them in there. Because walking around barefooted in the cold, eating out of garbage cans is not. Doesn't help them.

[Sam]

No.

[Brit Elmore]

And they're like, they have a right to that. You can't hold them. They have a right to, to do what they want to do. They don't know what they're doing. You know, they're wandering out in traffic. They're, they're, they're gone.

[Sam]

Yeah. I mean that. You're talking about homelessness and there's also. Yeah. Like you. The Z that it's just such a. Awful way of calling them but. Well, they look like zombies, particularly in Kensington and some of these.

[Brit Elmore]

And you didn't see that during the crack era. When you see it now with the fentanyl, they are, they are just like, you look into them and it's like they have that thousand mile stare.

[Sam]

Yeah. It just doesn't feel right to allow that to happen. Right. You can say they're, they're, they're doing it because they want to. They're. It's their own free will, but it's there. It's not like you, you know.

[Brit Elmore]

Yeah. And you see politics like, oh, they need housing. Housing. No, they don't need housing. You need to get to the root of the problem. You know, they need to not self medicate because that's what they're doing. They're self medicating and they in. And you have to figure out why somebody's addicted, what caused that. If, if you can figure it out

[Sam]

and have a system in place that rehabilitates them. If they want to be rehabilitated or if they. Yeah, if they want to be rehabilitated. And the rehabs, we've, I've, I've investigated rehab facilities also and there's a lot of them that are really bad. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

[Brit Elmore]

I got your present.

[Sam]

Oh, you did?

[Brit Elmore]

Yes. It's.

[Sam]

That is so sweet.

[Brit Elmore]

It's a San Francisco thing. It's. It's kind of like an iconic San Francisco thing. If you wore it in San Francisco, they, they think you from San Francisco.

[Sam]

My God. Is it a jacket?

[Brit Elmore]

It's a derby jacket. But derby's from San Francisco. In the, in, in that cut, in that paisley, that paisley inside. Yeah, they've been since the 60s.

[Sam]

This is so, so. Wow. This is beautiful.

[Brit Elmore]

But that's, that's San Francisco right there. If you wore that in San Francisco, everybody be like, nice jacket, nice jacket. Because, because they've been there from the 60s and on. So it's. Everybody knows the kind of an icon jacket jacket.

[Sam]

I love it so much. You are the best. Thank you, Brit. That's so sweet.

[Brit Elmore]

Piece of San Francisco A.

[Sam]

That is so sweet. Here I ask you to come all the way down to LA and you bring me a gift too.

[Brit Elmore]

It's all good.

[Sam]

I really appreciate you too. Thank you for coming on the podcast. You're awesome. Thank you.

[Brit Elmore]

Thank you, Sam.