Britain's Most Successful Coach on Culture First, Trophies Second: Matt Peet (E392)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Britain's Most Successful Coach on Culture First, Trophies Second — Matt Peet (E392)

Podcast: The High Performance Podcast
Host: Jake Humphrey & Damian Hughes
Guest: Matt Peet, Head Coach of Wigan Warriors
Episode Date: February 11, 2026
Length: Approx. 70 minutes

---

Episode Overview

This episode features Matt Peet, the head coach of the Wigan Warriors and one of the most decorated coaches in British rugby league. Despite never having played professional rugby, Peet rose through the academy system to lead Wigan to unprecedented success. The conversation centers on the culture Peet has cultivated at Wigan, one that prioritizes learning, accountability, and deep community connection—placing culture first and trophies second. Through stories, reflections, and practical advice, Peet reveals the philosophies and behaviors behind sustained high performance, not just in sport but in life.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Nontraditional Path & Foundational Experiences

• Peet stresses that not being an ex-professional player shaped his perspective as a coach but didn’t make him an outsider. He played amateur rugby from ages 5–20 in a winning, sometimes ruthless culture (01:40).
• Early coaching experience: Started with an under-12 team, focusing on group bonds, honesty, and loving the process (03:13).

  “I just had a connection and a bond with that group of young men… A lot of the philosophies I was trying to instil then… are the same as what I would preach.” — Matt Peet (01:40)

2. Learning Obsession and the World's Best Learning Culture

• Learning is central: Constant self-improvement, absorbing knowledge from various sources, and passing it to others (04:42).

  "I think my love is learning something so I can share it with other people… I am obsessed with learning and trying to develop." — Matt Peet (04:42)

• At Wigan, the concept of the “world’s best learning culture” is non-negotiable and habitual—feedback and reflection underpin everything (07:14, 09:00).

3. Player Empowerment, Feedback, and Accountability

• Monday reviews: “What did we learn?” is always the focal point regardless of match results (08:52).
• Peet encourages honest feedback between players and coach—even when players disagree with his strategic choices (09:27).

  “Oh, I work for them, you know, they don’t work for me. And I want us to have an environment where we collaborate and learn from one another.” — Matt Peet (11:15)

• Apologies: Peet isn’t afraid to admit mistakes or apologize if he gets things wrong publicly or with the players (12:05).

4. Healthy Conflict & Psychological Safety

• Team culture fosters “healthy conflict”—a willingness to challenge each other because of mutual respect and safety (12:54).
• Deep connection comes from sharing beyond surface-level, including personal stories, emotions, and vulnerabilities in daily routines (15:29–17:18).

  “Breakfast at Wigan is not just because I like my food, but it’s probably equal to the field session… the most important part of the day. 30, 45 minutes, everyone’s together… we weave in meaningful conversations.” — Matt Peet (16:30)

• Inspired by Saracens rugby, Peet introduced routines where players discuss everything from dreams to fears and personal achievements (18:27).

5. Evolving from Ruthless to Human-focused Leadership

• Peet contrasts the traditional “dog-eat-dog” rugby environment with his more compassionate, holistic, and human approach to team culture (19:51).

  “We have a duty to create an environment that’s more… got more depth to it, to the whole person, not just the player.” — Matt Peet (20:14)

6. Mentors and Personal Growth

• Key mentors include Chris Odlinski, Wayne, and Craig White—shaping Peet's perspective on openness, learning from other organizations, and personal development (22:33–26:10).
• “Start by doing the work on yourself… improving myself, you know, that’s the best place to start to improve the group.” — Matt Peet (26:10)

7. Work–Life Balance and Blending Family with Work

• Balancing coaching demands and family requires conscious effort. Peet’s family is actively involved with the club, blurring traditional work–life divisions (29:15).
• Self-growth—particularly after becoming a husband and parent—helped Peet become calmer, more deliberate, and empathetic (30:55–31:13).

8. Childhood, Upbringing, and Service

• Grew up in a home that fostered children and provided respite care—shaping his comfort with vulnerability, diversity, and compassion (32:24–33:17).

9. Community First, Club Second

• Wigan’s culture is rooted in serving and representing the local community:

  “It’s not what the community can give us, it’s what we can give them.” — Matt Peet (34:48)

• Community engagement is built into the training schedule—players regularly visit schools, charities, and local organizations (37:56–39:15).
• Personal impact examples, including supporting mental health initiatives and helping players/former players in need (39:23–41:07).

10. Leadership by Example & Emotional Regulation

• Peet highlights the importance of modeling composure, especially in high-pressure situations or following defeat (45:42, 47:48, 49:35).

  “I just know that I’m the leader and I set the tone for the playing group, supporters, the organization… and that’s how I would expect a high-quality organization to act.” — Matt Peet (49:35)

• Practices for calmness and clarity include yoga, walking, sleep, and breathwork (45:55–48:13).

11. Radical Responsibility and Zero Blame Culture

• Peet accepts ultimate responsibility for team performance—refuses to blame referees or externalities, focusing on controllables (51:43).

  “Everything that happens on that field is a reflection of me. So I take responsibility.” — Matt Peet (51:43)

12. Culture of Selflessness, Connection, and Consistency

• The most valuable teams bend but don’t break, have selfless behaviors, and deep trust—these are his markers of readiness and resilience (56:34–57:36, 62:39).
• "An appetite to learn, consistency, and genuine care—caring enough to embrace conflict when necessary—are the non-negotiables." (62:39)

13. Takeaways and Golden Rules

• Be yourself, strive to improve, and trust your intuition (65:54).
• Enduring mantra: “The Obstacle Is the Way”—growth is born from adversity (66:13).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Leading Without a Professional Background
  “I didn’t want to give up, was I’d started coaching this under-12 rugby team and… a lot of the philosophies I was trying to instill then… are the same as what I would preach.” (01:40)

• On Learning Obsession
  “My love is learning something so I can share it with other people. I am obsessed with learning and trying to develop.” (04:42)

• On Accountability
  "I work for them, you know, they don’t work for me… As long as the end goal is that we make this group better, we all improve, we don’t care who comes up with the opinions." (11:15)

• On Apologizing and Leadership Vulnerability
  "It’s no big deal, me apologizing, them apologizing… as long as you move forward with best intention." (12:05)

• On Healthy Conflict
  “When you understand the foundations that have been laid and that desire for your mate, your teammate, your coach… to give you that honest feedback with the end goal of improvement.” (13:58)

• On Daily Practices for Culture
  “Breakfast at Wigan is… the most important part of the day. 30, 45 minutes, everyone’s together… a chance to get a feel for the room.” (16:30)

• On Culture First, Trophies Second
  “The only words we have up on the wall at Wigan is culture first. And I genuinely believe it stops and starts with that and the wins will come after that.” (21:36)

• On Handling Defeat
  "I just know that I'm the leader and I set the tone… my kids, our kids, our supporters are watching. So again, what would you say to your kids if they lost a sports game? You'd say, shake hands, keep your chin up, we'll learn, we'll get better. You can't win them all." (49:35)

• On Blame and Ownership
  “Everything that happens on that field is a reflection of me. So I take responsibility.” (51:43)

• On Adversity and Growth
  “From our biggest losses and hardest nights has come our biggest growth and learning and development. So yeah, keep moving forward. Obstacle is the way.” (66:13)

---

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Introduction to Matt Peet & Philosophy – 00:01–03:40
• Importance of Learning and Being a ‘Sponge’ – 04:42–06:51
• Establishing a Learning Culture at Wigan – 07:14–09:14
• Receiving and Acting on Player Feedback – 09:27–12:05
• Healthy Conflict and Psychological Safety – 12:54–15:29
• Building Vulnerability and Team Connection – 15:29–18:03
• Creating a Human-Focused Leadership Model – 19:30–21:36
• Mentorship and Personal Growth – 22:33–26:10
• Balancing Coaching with Family Life – 29:15–32:24
• Peet’s Upbringing and Service Ethos – 32:24–33:17
• Community Engagement as Foundation – 37:56–39:15
• Leadership by Example and Emotional Regulation – 45:42–49:35
• Accountability, Blame, and Radical Ownership – 51:43–54:58
• Attributes of High-Performing Teams – 56:34–57:36
• Non-Negotiable Behaviors in Culture – 62:39–64:03
• Final Reflections & Golden Rules – 65:54–66:13

---

Conclusion

Matt Peet’s journey and Wigan’s consistent success underscore the power of a values-driven, learning-focused culture. Peet exemplifies humility, accountability, and emotional intelligence—traits rarely associated with the traditional image of a professional sports coach. His lessons on vulnerability, culture, and genuine care transcend rugby, offering enduring principles for anyone striving for high performance in any walk of life.

---

Golden Rule for High Performance:

“The Obstacle Is the Way… from our biggest losses and hardest nights has come our biggest growth and learning and development.” — Matt Peet (66:13)

Transcript

[Matt Peat]

I take responsibility. Have I picked the right team? Have I given the right information? And again, I think it rubs off on your players. Then I just think it's a healthier place to be. We get on really well, but we also fiercely want to get better and challenge one another and embrace conflict, healthy conflict. You've got to start by doing the work on yourself, understanding yourself, improving myself, you know, that's the best place to start, to improve. The group.

[Podcast Host]

That is the voice of Matt Peat, the head coach of the Wigham Warriors, a club widely considered to be one of the most successful rugby league clubs in history. Matt led the Wigan warriors men's team to an unprecedented run of success. He's won every major trophy in British Rugby League and is a coach who's been compared to the level of Pep Guardiola. And yet his route to the top is anything but traditional. He's never played professionally, but instead he's worked his way up through the academy system. What I found most powerful about Matt's success, though, isn't his trophy count. It's the deep philosophical culture he's built at Wigan. A culture that's based on an unquenchable thirst for learning, a deep community connection and a radical commitment to taking accountability. Welcome to high performance, the Wigan warriors head coach, Matt.

[Interviewer]

Pete, Your story is incredible in its own way, that you weren't a player, you know, you were a philosophy and an English graduate, that he's now one of the most decorated coaches in UK sport, but you started life coaching under 12th in a gym.

[Matt Peat]

Yeah, I get asked about not playing a professional a lot and it is true. But I think you can lose sight of the fact that I did play rugby league, from being five years old in Wigan to being 20. And when you go through that, that journey in a town like that and you play for the town team and the county and your friends at school, your mates at rugby, a lot of them have gone on to play professionally and I was around high achievers and excellent coaches and quite a ruthless. Even the schoolboy in amateur rugby in the, in the Northwest, you know, you're around some, some good practice, some bad practice and you absorb so much about what winning cultures, developing people and players looks like. So when I decided to stop and concentrate on my studies and coaching, it was still a lot of the philosophies that I'd absorbed. And the big thing was I didn't want to give up, was I'd started coaching this under 12 rugby team and I was developing a real passion for it. Never Thought it would go anywhere, but just had a connection and a bond with that group of young men. And again, a lot of the philosophies I was trying to instill then that I'd picked up from my coaches, the same as what I would preach.

[Interviewer]

Now, what were some of those philosophies?

[Matt Peat]

Looking after one another as a group, building that brotherhood or mateship. That's what I really enjoy driving. And particularly that when they were 12, 13, getting them to do things away from the game, getting them to be honest with one another, to share with one another, to work hard on the fundamentals of the game, to love, love, practice.

[Interviewer]

But what did that do for you? You know, like you've gone from being a player to now deciding that you want to develop these young players. What was it that it gave you?

[Matt Peat]

I think I've always been very interested in how you start something with a plan and then bring it together, bring it to life. So it gave me a chance to spend time thinking, come up with a vision for how I wanted that team to feel, act, behave, play, train, and then to bring it to life and give them the vehicle to improve, get physically fitter, make new friends, compete.

[Interviewer]

Yep.

[Matt Peat]

But. But I suppose what I was getting was it was quenching my appetite to bring a vision to life.

[Interviewer]

But I think there's something really special about your story, Matt, around this willingness to be a sponge, to constantly be putting yourself in environments where you can learn and observe and get better. Where does that come from?

[Matt Peat]

I've thought about this a lot. I'm not sure I know that. My uncles particular were always reading and sharing books, leaving books lying around. My family have always encouraged me to learn and be better, but I just know that I didn't want to miss out if there was something where I could learn to help my team or help a player I was coaching. I wanted to. I think my love is learning something so I can share it with other people. I think that can be an eye for people around me and I've had to learn when not to do it as well.

[Interviewer]

But go on, explain what you mean by that.

[Matt Peat]

Well, if I read a book now, I would go into work and say, you've got to read this book, you've got to read this book. And what I've learned is not everyone's like that. So if they don't want to read that book just because I say it's great, then that shouldn't piss me off too much. And it doesn't mean that they're not curious and want to learn, they just have to find their own way. But I am obsessed with. With learning and trying to develop, and that brings its. Its trappings as well. Sometimes you've got to write. I've listened to enough now. I've read enough. Yeah, get the work done. And also being comfortable in your own skin.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matt Peat]

I met Andrew Farrell once and I asked him about study visits he'd been on, and he said to me, just be yourself. And I remember thinking, that's easy for you to say, you know, the career he's had as a player and as a man. But I knew what it meant as well. You've got to learn what you can, absorb what you can, but then trust your own intuition. But, yeah, I would always absorb. I've had some great mentors over the years, and I think that's been my path to success, really, is seeking out knowledge, seeking out people who could guide and influence me. And then I've been lucky that a lot of them have opened the door for me.

[Interviewer]

Well, I want to come back and explore some of those relationships in a bit, but one of the quotes attributed to you is, you want Wigan, or the organization that you oversee to be the world's best learning culture. And I'm interested in how do you develop and nurture that love of wanting to seek advantages and be sponges in a wider organization.

[Matt Peat]

It's the first thing we talk about and the last thing we talk about from first day back. When I get the team back, looking towards next season, it'll be about, what did we learn last year? And then we'll train and we'll say, what did we learn from training? You know, where can we get better? What are we doing? Well, what did we learn? What did we learn? And that's probably the question I ask the most. Right. And then we give them, provide them with the resources, the opportunities, the space to learn and develop and to fail. You know, you can't ask for learnings without some room for mistakes. Yeah, I set the tone for that. And there's no doubt Chris Odlinsky, our CEO, is of the same mindset. We're always looking to dream big and be curious. Where can we take this? I think when you speak about that, we've got a learning culture. There's no starting end to. Doesn't end at the last game of the year or the final whistle. And it also takes the focus a little bit away from the win, loss. We all know it's the main thing in an organization. It's what you're all judged by. But I think if you pride yourself on learning as you go through the journey of a week or a year, winning isn't the be all and end all, but it's also not enough. Like some weeks you win and you still want to be taking steps forward and developing.

[Interviewer]

So would that be the first question you would ask your team when you do a Monday morning review after a weekend's game? What did we learn from this?

[Matt Peat]

Yeah, it might be reshaped and redesigned and done in groups, done in, you know, might show a clip and then ask. Or it might be what did we learn particularly about our communication or our leadership.

[Interviewer]

Okay, can you give us an example of like an answer that you've had to you directing that question that has surprised you or that has produced success in the future?

[Matt Peat]

One with the group I've got now was I painted a picture of an opposition team disrespecting us, saying things in the press and trying to create a bit of animosity between us and them. And then after the game we won the game, but the players said that they don't like it when we focus too much on the opponent and maybe it would work with some groups. Maybe it's a bit old fashioned. I just thought that week that we needed a bit of a spark. So I tried to tap into the emotion. And one thing I've learned about, about my team is they want to concentrate on our processes, on them doing it for, for one another, how much they care about one another rather than sticking one on an opponent. So that that was one. There's been other times where they felt that we've not adjusted our game plan enough. You know, we've gone out of a set game plan and whether it was the weather conditions or the way that the game was particularly slow games, we maybe have gone in there with a message of building pressure and the opponent will crack. But they probably shaped us to try and be more attacking early in games more often rather than just waiting till the other team fall off a cliff.

[Interviewer]

Which is fascinating that you're getting this feedback from your players. How do you handle that when they say to you you got that wrong or that was the wrong kind of messaging that you've offered us.

[Matt Peat]

Oh, I work for them, you know, they don't work for me. And I want us to have an environment where we collaborate and we learn from one another. And as long as the end goal is that we make this group better, we all improve. You know, we don't care who comes up with the, the opinions there's certain things that I, and we have learned over the years that are non negotiable, but there's not that many. There's not that many. And particularly when you know the lads are coming from, from the right place. Yeah, A lot of the time, you know yourself, you've reflected, you maybe had a few small conversations straight after the game with the lads and I got a sense of it anyway, but it's always good to get it out in the open.

[Interviewer]

But would you apologize to them or would you share what you would do differently?

[Matt Peat]

I have apologized them in the past, not so much maybe for something like that, but maybe if I've said something in the media what I thought has put pressure on the group or if I've said something straight after the game or at halftime and then I'm reflecting and watching the game back, it wasn't quite right. But you know, I thought in the immediacy it was, you know, it's no big deal, me apologizing, them, apologising. As long as you move forward with best intention. I think we have an environment that's really safe, we get on really well, but we also fiercely want to get better and challenge one another and embrace conflict, healthy conflict, as long as it's done in the right manner.

[Interviewer]

Go on, just pause there and tell me about healthy conflict.

[Matt Peat]

We have a really safe environment, really fun, a lot of sharing, a lot of vulnerability and we have a lot of discussions about all aspects of one another's lives. And the reason we do that is I've been sat in teams and in team meetings where the only time two players might talk properly or with any substances, when one of them, one of them's ripping into the other one for not kick chase. Yep, hard enough, not filling the space, missing a tackle, which is okay, but that's so much more substance to it when there's a. There is a proper connection, a genuine connection. And you're actually giving that man that advice because you want him to be better and that makes the team better, right? Not just because it serves you. So that's the environment we try to create, get everything out in the open. And some of it would appear brutal to an outsider coming in and listening to those conversations in isolation, but when you understand the foundations that have been laid and that desire for your mate, your teammate, your coach, physio, strength, conditioning coach, to give you that honest feedback with the end goal of improvement.

[Sean Linda]

Hi, friends. Sean, Linda from two black guys with good credit here. Whether you're running a non profit a school or a small business Walmart business is here to support your mission. They make it easy to order what you need, from tech and cleaning supplies to everyday essentials. All at low prices and with helpful tools like spend tracking and tax exempt purchasing for eligible organizations. Because when your operations are smooth, your impact can be bigger. Visit business.walmart.com to get started.

[Sleep Number Advertiser]

Why choose a sleep number Smart bed Can I make my site softer?

[Matt Peat]

Can I make my site firmer?

[ActiveCampaign Advertiser]

Can we sleep cooler?

[Sleep Number Advertiser]

Sleep number does that cools up to eight times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side your sleep number setting. Enjoy personalized comfort for better sleep night after night. And now during our President's day sale, take 50% off our limited edition bed plus free premium delivery with any bed and base ends Monday only at a sleep number store or sleepnumber.com.

[Interviewer]

So tell us about creating an environment of vulnerability then to be able to have eventually lead to those honest conversations. What do you do?

[Matt Peat]

A lot of small conversations about anything and everything. So we'll go through the process in preseason. Where to build social capital. Silly questions to begin with. Not much depth to it. Like surface level. Right, lads, get in groups. You're going on a stack do this weekend. Unlimited budget, design it, present it. You, you can go anywhere, take anyone. What you're gonna do, right, You've got the old question about the dinner table. Four or five guests, who would you invite and why discuss it. But then you start to drip feed questions of more depth. Last time you were scared, last time you cried. Who do you wanna make proud? And you can go on and on with that stuff, but it's the consistency of the conversations pretty much every morning. There would be some sort of sharing.

[Interviewer]

Like that every day before. So they come in to train and that's part of their warm up activities.

[Matt Peat]

It'd be after breakfast. Breakfast at Wigan is not just because I like my food, but it's probably equal to the field session. Really the most important part of the day. 30, 45 minutes, everyone's together. I know the lads do the well being checks on their iPads and all that, but it's a chance to get a feel for the room for the individuals. Where's the energy level? Where's the enthusiasm? Where's the confidence? But then also to weave in conversations, meaningful conversations. Tell us what you've been doing at the weekend, properly share it with the group. But something meaningful like did one of your kids achieve something? Was there anything tough going on?

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Matt Peat]

And there's times in the year where 20 minute block, it might become five minutes and we might be flying and everyone. So it might end up. It might end up really fun. You know, you gotta gauge that through the year. But it's important that we don't take that out because everything we do really is built on culture and connection. So, yeah, I don't think you can just go on an army camp or just run up hills or just get on the piss.

[Interviewer]

Yep.

[Matt Peat]

That stuff has its place. But I think proper connection runs a bit deeper.

[Interviewer]

So would you mix the groups up every day so with a different colleague, different set of teammates?

[Matt Peat]

Yeah, mix it up and sometimes you might do the same question. Mix up your groups. Mix up a group.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matt Peat]

No more than three or four in the conversation because we know what happens then ends up some spectators and just make it part of your practice. It's a bit awkward when you first start, but certainly my group now, the challenge now of our group is keeping it. They know that much about one another is keeping it fresh.

[Interviewer]

Did you introduce it or was it something you inherited?

[Matt Peat]

I nicked it. I nicked it from conversations I'd had with coaches from Saracens and then I did a bit of reading and it's become more commonplace now. I think psychological safety seems to be the buzzword. Yeah. But probably seven, six years ago, I know Saracens had a great culture and I learned more about that. They were very open with me. I just think it becomes a healthier place to work. Our training facility at Robin Park's outstanding in that. All the offices together. The ladies team are around. There's ladies in the office. People can bring the kids in. Past players are knocking around. We have all club stalwarts who. Some have paid petitions, some don't, but there's a real fluidity about it and I think you can absorb what the club is about. And it's. It's probably a long way from the stereotypical rugby club of 20, 30 years ago. It's.

[Interviewer]

Well, this is. I mean, when we were talking beforehand about Andrew Farrell's book, when he reflects on coming into wigan as a 14 year old boy playing with the men and how it was. He describes it in his words, as a ruthless culture. Where it was about the fairly hard nose feedback where you had to earn your status.

[Matt Peat]

Dog eat doggy says, don't he? Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

He uses that kind of phase. And yours sounds like it's still focused on winning but doing it in a more human way.

[Matt Peat]

Yeah. And there's a. There's a place for that. You Know, we have our 60 minutes on the field and we have our 60 minutes in the gym. And there's no doubt you want that ultra competitive.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matt Peat]

Nature about it all and that edge to it. I mean, the world's changed a lot and in that time. And I think we have a. We have a duty to create an environment that's more. Got more depth to it, to the whole person, not just the player.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matt Peat]

And it allows us to shape one another where we can have an impact on. Genuine impact on one another's lives outside the 80 minutes and even outside the time you're at the club.

[Interviewer]

I read the interview when Willie Isa left you to go and join Chelsea and you recounted one of these sessions where you asked the players to talk about who'd done something for you that nobody knew about. And his name kept being recounted.

[Matt Peat]

Yeah, it was brilliant. And that would be the sort of meeting I'm talking about. But the theme that week was probably around mateship or selflessness and. And that was exactly right. The players were going around and before you knew it, he'd got two of them out of bar room scraps. He'd had one of them lodging at his house. He'd give a couple of them a lift on from training, met a few of them for coffees when no one else knew, lent someone some money that he didn't get back then. They talk about cultural architects and you want everyone to be that, don't you, really? And the only words we have up on the wall that Wigan is culture first. And I genuinely believe it stops and starts with that and the wins will come after that. I've never seen a consistent, winning organization. Teams can win, but to win consistently year on year, all the ones we mention, we would all name the same ones. It's the culture which is basically the vision, the attitude and the behaviour is all lining up, isn't it? It's when there's a mismatch that things go off.

[Interviewer]

Tell us about your mentors, though, because I think the willingness to listen to others, to open yourself up and admit errors when you've made it to the players and to constantly keep learning that requires you to curate a trusted set of advisors around you.

[Matt Peat]

Yeah, I mentioned Chris Olinski already. He's the reason I'm in. I'm in post now. If you imagine. You probably can't imagine meeting me when I was 22 and coaching 15 year olds and he saw something in me very early and challenged me. You know, I didn't know for a long time that he Saw something in me, to be honest.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Matt Peat]

He just gave me a lot of feedback and pointers and I'd like to think I've absorbed a lot of it. Probably didn't understand it all at the time. But I've said to him since that when I've got the job and I've been. And I've got attention, media and so forth, a lot of the things I get credit for now are the things that he instilled in me.

[Interviewer]

Like what?

[Matt Peat]

Like having recognition of. Of other organizations and not being totally Wigan centric. Being willing to understand the game and the demands of the needs of the game. Wanting the sport to flourish, being willing to give credit where it's due. It comes naturally to me now, but I wouldn't have understood that when I was 25. I was obsessed, ruthless with just winning.

[Interviewer]

Yep.

[Matt Peat]

And would say at all cost, but I wouldn't be. I wouldn't give any thought to the opponent.

[Interviewer]

Who else is in your mentorship group?

[Matt Peat]

Well, Sha, Wayne was from a coaching point of view and the one that gave me the. The confidence that I could. I could work with senior players. Yeah. Just the time he gave up for me. And it sounds. I've told you that I would ask to attend everything, but it got to the stage where I was Wayne, who was first team assistant, and I would go and sit with him the day after the game while he cut the game for his reviews. Right. Which probably meant it took him another hour and a half longer than it needed to. But just quizzing him on the clips that he would show and the ones he wouldn't show and what he'd seen on certain things and. But just for someone to give you that welcome when you feel like an outsider.

[Interviewer]

Yep.

[Matt Peat]

It's something that I hope that I can do to help other coaches and always try and be open and. I mean, he's a good friend. Now, Wayne Ian, we speak again. You end up where you're just friends and you speak to each other and you share ideas, but yeah, over the years, he's on my back 100%. And another one would be Craig White. I don't know if you know Craig.

[Interviewer]

But he was a SNC guy with the Lions, wasn't he? And wasps.

[Matt Peat]

Yeah, he was. And he was a wigginer. A lot of common friends. And when I got the job or maybe when I was assistant to Lammy, I reached out to him and I thought I was gonna go and learn about performance, sports, coaching. And from the first time I met him, he opened my eyes that there's so much more to personal development and coaching and leadership than what I thought and what I knew. And again, he's developed. We've developed into great friends, but he is a. We can provide him to me as a professional mentor, which is a massive part of my development. Stuff me and him have speak about and work on.

[Interviewer]

He does a lot about men being more vulnerable and open, don't they?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt Peat]

Yeah. And that's probably what I've learned from him, to be a leader, in my opinion. Now, you've got to start by doing the work on yourself, understanding yourself. And that makes it easy for me if I know that me doing that work's gonna help the team again, improving myself, you know, that's the best place to start to improve the group, to improve the club, is by me being more present, more. More energised, have more range as a coach, something we'll talk about a lot. And the coaches that I admire, you know, they are fierce, competitive, ruthless, but they're also compassionate, caring and playful. So that's how I want to be as a coach, as a parent, as a husband. So.

[Interviewer]

Well, can we talk about those last two roles, about being a parent and a husband? Because those qualities you just described of being a head coach, being fierce and ruthless and competitive, often don't seem like they're compatible with being compassionate, caring and vulnerable. And yet you seem to have found this lovely balance between the two.

[Matt Peat]

Try to. I think that's the main challenge. That's where most of my head noise is balanced. So balance between them three facets that you just mentioned.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matt Peat]

Balancing myself. Am I being fierce enough? Am I being compassionate enough?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt Peat]

Am I? You know, sometimes you're at work, you think, should I be at home? You're at home. Should I be at work? You go to the gym. Should I be? Don't go to the gym. So, yeah, chasing that, the pursuit of that balance, I think, is where I'm at in my life now. Where I've developed a coach is probably to treat it more like a family, like you would treat your own kids. Till I had kids, that's probably what I didn't understand properly. Right. Dealing with junior players. And I've spoken about it before, driving them constant and thinking, you're giving feedback. But it could just be criticism, maybe being too far that way. And when I stopped now, I think if that was someone coaching my kid, I would have liked it. So I think I've gone more towards the empathetic side. But then I think when you Are challenging and embracing conflict because it comes from that place of. They know you've got your back.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matt Peat]

Like your kids is in it. Your kids should know. I know, I know my dad wants the best for me, so I'll listen. And he's done all these great things for me. He'll do anything for me. So when he asked for this, and I know it's for my own good, but, yeah, that's trying to be the best dad you can be, husband you can be. I think it takes work, doesn't it? Particularly in a role like I've got, like many people have, which is kind of. Can be all consuming if you allow it.

[Interviewer]

So how do you find that balance?

[Matt Peat]

Don't get it right all the time. I seek it. I seek it. One good thing that me and my wife have got over the years is we're blended with the club, really. We're blended with the job. So people talk about work, life, balance, but I think we've gone about it a different way. Like, they come to the games, they're invested in, they've got a lot of friends at the training ground. My wife, Rebecca, does a great job of bringing the other wives together, communicating with them.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Matt Peat]

Which plays a massive part in the team dynamic when wives and girlfriends and mums and dads feel a part of the journey. So she helps me with that. And then you try and book things in, don't you? Whether it's one night a week and I've seen something the day you should do one night a week and then one weekend a month or so, probably not quite that, but she has a really high pressure job as well, full time. So a lot of the time when we sit down together, the kids are asleep, we're both tired. And you just gotta understand it's not one of them days you're gonna have much conversation, but get things booked in the diary further down the line, what would she recognise?

[Interviewer]

You know that boat trip when you were 20 and you told her that you were stepping away from playing? What qualities would she recognise from the mat that told her that to what she sees now as head coach at Wigan? And on the flip side, what would she see as the biggest difference as well?

[Matt Peat]

The biggest difference is I'm calmer. I'm much calmer. I used to be. Quiet is the word. We'd say daft where I'm from. Daft. Daft, yeah.

[Interviewer]

That's how I understand it. But how would you explain that for somebody that would be saying, well, well, like, what is daft?

[Matt Peat]

Silly, reckless, impulsive. Impulsive, up and down, probably all into whatever I was doing, whether that was training, coaching, drinking, partying, just all in to everything all the time, which is good when you're 20, 21. But I've probably mellowed over the years, particularly since having children. But I'd like to think that I've said I've kept my curiosity and playfulness, my confidence. I think I've always had an inner confidence that I could talk to anyone that was instilled by my parents. You know, I could talk to people who supposedly, you know, high flyers and plenty of money, and also people who are having a tough time or I love spending time with people from difficult backgrounds, disabilities, kids who've had a tough time and a bit off the rails. I've always had that passion for that.

[Interviewer]

But that comes from your parents, foster children, didn't they? I mean, that to me is really intriguing. It reminded me of when we interviewed James Timson. His parents did something similar and he talks about that was a real gift for him.

[Matt Peat]

Yeah. And again, I only recognize this now because I've done the work with Craig, you know, and been through my life inventory and drawn little links of where things have turned up in my life. But I was just brought up in a house of love and care and warmth, working class. Both mum and dad worked hard all the way through, but never felt like didn't have anything even more. So we opened our house up to kids who were going through a tough time.

[Interviewer]

How old were you when your parents started to foster?

[Matt Peat]

I reckon I would have been six, seven.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Matt Peat]

And I think it's called temporary respite or something like that. So many weekends a month we'd have a kid or two come and staying with us and in the summer holidays it might be they come for a week, a couple of them, and it just becomes the norm. Like most things, if that's what you brought up with. I never stopped to think why we're doing this. It just wasn't my place. It'd just been what I'd been brought up with. And when the kids were with us, they were part of the family and we looked after them the best we could. And I didn't think about it too much then, but now to look back, I am very comfortable around meeting new people. I enjoy not having proper conversations with when I meet supporters and you get to go out into charities and schools and stuff. And that's something we've instilled in the team as well. You know, we do that all through the year to a high, high degree that we get amongst it.

[Interviewer]

Why?

[Matt Peat]

It develops a culture of gratitude, which is the opposite to entitlement, isn't it, really?

[Interviewer]

Yep.

[Matt Peat]

You make feel good about what you're doing. You. You understand that the club can put a. A smile on a lot of people's faces in lots of different ways. It gives you a sense that you play for something bigger than just yourself.

[Interviewer]

Well, that reminds me, like, you gave that lovely. The sports personality of the year. You said, it's not what the community can give us, it's what we can give them.

[Matt Peat]

And I think that's the job of a sports team, really. And I think rugby league is a. I don't know if it's the best, but it's a great example of a community game. You know, the lads get paid, but it's not huge sums. The game is ferocious, the most ferocious field sport in the world, I believe. But the teams are ingrained in their own times and every one of them look at the Super League and the championship clubs, they have community outreach projects where the players are the face of it. And I've seen the things that you look most recently with the Game United for Rob. Rob Burroughs through Kev. I think rugby league does that better than anybody else. And that's what I wanted to get across in that speech at the BBC. I've spent so many years of seeing rugby league on for about 15 seconds. I wanted to say something that represented the sport, not just. Certainly not just myself and my team. We are just a small part of what is a fantastic community in British sport.

[Interviewer]

Well, I was recently talking to Kevin, who, when I told him I was really looking forward to sitting down with you, the compliment he paid you to me was he said, you know, Matt is a coach that I would have absolutely loved to have played for when I was still playing. And you were telling me that you sort of transcend the tribal loyalties by. You've got a picture of Kevin, Rob up in the training ground up there.

[Matt Peat]

Yeah. It's the first thing that you see and you walk into our training ground is a picture of Kev and Rob embrace. And it just says the best teammates car. And I think us having that up is even more impactful than Otwiggan players. Because we all want to win. Absolutely, we do. But when things like that happen, what happened to Rob, you understand that it is a game. It is a game. And the important part of it is the mateship, the memories, the lessons you learn that are. That affect the rest of Your life. And I thought in Rads putting that open, I thought it was a great statement of intent from not just what we want our team to be about, but what we want our community to be about. But Kev saying that, yeah, it's, you know, someone who's. He's probably the most famous rugby player certainly in Britain at the moment. And what he's achieved in coaching as well, he's. He's someone I have a huge amount of respect for. And if ever you want to meet a man who feel like you're not. To make you feel like you're not doing enough in life, it's him.

[Interviewer]

Let's go back and just talk about that community impact because again, lots of people talk again about, oh yeah, the fans are most important. What is it that you feel that the club gives you as a competitive advantage or the community gives you and the team as a competitive advantage?

[Matt Peat]

I think a great sports club is aligned, isn't it? From ownership, leadership, team support, staff. But when you get the community aligned as well, it's almost unstoppable, isn't it?

[Interviewer]

Yep.

[Matt Peat]

That isn't why we do it, but I do think it has a knock on effect. We do it to give. But I also feel at the Brick community stadium that there's an energy. When I go to events with the supporters, I feel a genuine support. Not just noise, but I feel like that they know the team represents them and that's been the same through the wins and the losses. And I think that is because they know that. Well, it's our first week of preseason in alongside skills and weights and wrestling and so on, we have community engagement where we all get out in. In minibuses and we visit schools, we visit community clubs, charities, businesses, homeless shelters and so forth. And that's every week and we'll do as many as we can during the season as well. So I think it was a big step to move them sort of appearances into the. Into the timetable and schedule of the players, to give it the. The kudos it deserves. Right.

[Interviewer]

And can you think of one of these community visits that has lasted in your memory?

[Matt Peat]

Yeah, there's lots. I went to the break on, this was a separate one. I went to the Brick on Christmas Day last year and there was a lad there and he was a big lad and he came down and started chatting and I made a comment that if we could do a. You playing for us. And then when I looked, I knew him and he was a past Super League player. I won't mention who it is, but sure. And I was just like, wow, it's such a fine line, isn't it? It's such a fine line and we should never feel like. Because we're doing all right, you know, the players and the staff. And we had this discussion recently when we was talking about mental health as well, and it's not a million miles away. Like, it's only one twist affair. And, yep, you know, it could happen to any of us and. But that was a really harsh lesson for me. Or reminder. Sure.

[Interviewer]

So, for context, this was a former Super League player that's fallen on hard times.

[Matt Peat]

And likewise, I went to Andy's man's club, which is. Yeah, everyone, men's sharing circles and I think they're fantastic. And I went to one as an appearance. The club asked me to go and I've been back since, but I couldn't believe when I went home and it meant that I already knew and they were there because they'd fallen on, not financial hard times, just some mental struggles. And they were blokes with cash on the hip and solid families. But life had thrown something up that they'd struggled and fortunately, now there's places to go and to go and share.

[Interviewer]

And do you offer that as a support to your playing group as well, that ability to go and get mental health support?

[Matt Peat]

Yeah, yeah. I'd like to think that it's that ingrained in everything we do that it would be flagged up really early. And if we had to do something aside from the norm, whether I didn't have the expertise or a welfare manager, we are well resourced in that remit. I really hope that the fact that we share so much with one another, we encourage it, you know, I share things with them about my life and that's really important. And that's something that Craig always says to me, like, whenever you. Whenever you're setting up this sort of sharing and conversation vulnerability, you have to set the tone for it.

[Interviewer]

Yep.

[Matt Peat]

They can't be what they can't see, you know, so if I'm saying you've got to be open, my door is always open. But I've always got my head in my laptop and I've always got a face like thunder, then you're not going to get that sort of communication that you want from the players.

[Interviewer]

So how did that make you feel, though, to stand in front? I've been in these dressing rooms. I know that sometimes they can be quite intimidating places. You've got 30 pairs of eyes staring back at you and the willingness to make yourself vulnerable, to share something personal can feel like a huge, daunting leap.

[Matt Peat]

Personally, I'm all right with it, right? I'm all right with it. I feel like I've done it a lot, spoke in front of teams a lot. I think I'm quite an open person.

[Interviewer]

Yep.

[Matt Peat]

The important thing for me was doing it to set the tone for others and to set an example. I didn't find it particularly difficult, but that doesn't mean that some players won't and not everyone. We've done some meetings where some lads have opted out of sharing, which is absolutely fine. So it should be. There's also times in the season where we rein back the emotion of meetings and so forth because we don't want it to become an overly serious, overly emotional environment every day. But it is important to tap into it occasionally.

[Mint Mobile Advertiser]

Everyone has that friend who does things the hard way. You know, the one sticking with an old phone because it still works. Look, I used to be that person, right? Especially when it came to overpaying for wireless. Then I switched to Mint Mobile. It has the same coverage and speed as my old provider, but at a fraction of the cost. Mint Mobile gives you premium wireless unlimited talk, text and data without the high price. Keep your own phone and number, activate with ESIM in minutes and start saving right away. With a seven day money back guarantee and customer satisfaction ratings in the mid-90s, it's easy to see why people stick with Mint. Ready to stop paying more than you have to? New customers can make the switch today and for a limited time get unlimited premium wireless for just 15 bucks a month. Switch [e-mail] HPP that's mintmobile.com/hpp upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for a 12 month plan required $15 a month equivalent taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only over 50 gig may slow when network is busy. Capable device required availability, speed and coverage varies. Additional terms apply. Cmintmobile.com.

[Sean Linda]

What'S up? It's Sean Linda from Two Black Guys with Good Credit. If managed supply runs is still on your to do list here, here's your science upgrade. Walmart Business has the tech tools and services that make it ridiculously easy to stock up for your office or team. Think scheduled deliveries, multi user accounts and even IT setup. Bonus with a Walmart Business plus membership, you get free shipping, spend, analytics and 2% rewards. Join the smart way to shop at business.walmart.com Terms apply.

[Sleep Number Advertiser]

Why Choose a Sleep Number Smart bed. Can I make my site softer?

[Matt Peat]

Can I make my site firmer?

[ActiveCampaign Advertiser]

Can I can we sleep cooler?

[Sleep Number Advertiser]

Sleep number does that cools up to eight times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side your Sleep Number setting. Enjoy personalized comfort for better sleep night after night. And now during our President's day sale, take 50% off our limited edition bed plus free premium delivery with any bed and base ends Monday only at a Sleep number store or sleepnumber.com.

[Interviewer]

Let's go back to another comment you made earlier where you said that Becky, your wife, would describe you as far calmer than that 20 year old lad on the boat in Thailand. How have you learned this sense of calm?

[Matt Peat]

Lots of, lots of different practices, really. Spending more time in nature walking, yoga, breath work. I don't meditate as much as I should stop drinking at all. Yeah, right. Got two daughters now, so I'd like to think I'm a bit more aware of how I come across. And yeah, I suppose you call it growing up, don't you? But I do do a lot of conscious practice around being in the moment, trying to remain calm. I know that if my sleep's good, I've been to yoga, walked my dog, all these other things will take care of themselves more often than not. When those practices and habits break down, then I'm more likely to say something stupid or erratic or without thought. So that is along with that balance, I suppose it comes back to balance. But seeking that balance in life, seeking it within yourself as well, being centered. And that allows me to be calm most of the time. But if I'm not being calm, it's because I've decided not to be calm deliberately. So. Yeah. Not doing in reaction to something.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so would you make a decision, say you might think this requires me to lose my temper with the group here. That would be of consciousness decision to do that.

[Matt Peat]

I never want to speak to the players out of anger and they rarely have made me angry anyway. But you might be raising your voice or passionate or enthusiastic, but that's more about an agreement you had with them more often than not, and that they're not doing as well as they should or as well as they can. Right. Not because I'm pissed off, you know.

[Interviewer]

But I'm always fascinated. Like when I see you in the coaching box of these intense moments of pressure, whether it's at Old Trafford for a Grand Final, Wembley for the Challenge cup or the World Club Service Challenge that you won, you always do look in emotional control you always look calm and analytical. What do you do before you go into that coaching box that gets you into a state like that?

[Matt Peat]

I think it's through the week. Mainly things I mentioned, like, yoga's been massive for me. I have a pretty strict routine on game day where I'll go to yoga, walk my dog, then have a sleep. I always find them it's easier to do those things if you're at home, you know, just being mindful that anything I do can impact the team. So if I lose control and I don't get this right as much as I should, but if I'm slam banging or shutting and balling, then can I really trust my team to have emotional control to make smart decisions? So that's the way I see it. I want. I want to embody what I'm asking for them to embody, you know?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matt Peat]

If I can't keep my calm when I can't affect the game, can you expect them? You know, if one of them does something erratic or silly, it's a reflection of me, really.

[Interviewer]

I often, really admire coaches that not only are successful like you, but also how they handle defeat when that inevitably occurs. And one of the moments that I thought stood out was how you did handle the end of the Grand Final defeat to Hull kr. How do you process a defeat but still be magnanimous at the same time?

[Matt Peat]

I just know that I'm the leader and I set the tone for the playing group, supporters, the organisation, and that's how I would expect a high quality organization to act. A few people have mentioned it to me and I just saw it as very automatic to congratulate the opponent. I was proud of my teams and I love them to bits and I knew they would be hurting, so I wanted them to feel that I was there for them. And I also know that, you know, my kids, our kids, our supporters are watching. So again, what would you say to your kids if they lost a sports game? You'd say, shake hands, keep your chin up, we'll learn, we'll get better. You can't win them all. So I'm very mindful of that. Win or lose. I don't like carrying on, you know, when we win because I think there's a compassion for the opponent. You can do it behind closed doors. Wrong. And you've got to. You should show some emotion. You should look like you're loving it and you don't want to look too sanitized. But I just thought in losing that game, it was the important thing to do. And I also know that it's fuel for our group to go on to our next stage of improvement and evolution. So to stand pitch side and clap OKR fans, clap OKR team. One, they deserve it. But two, I think it's an acceptance of, you know, this continues. It's not the end. We want to be the best learning team, not just the best winning team.

[Interviewer]

And is that the same philosophy then, that again, when I was looking, I was struggling to find any instances where you blame the referee, you know, after a defeat or that you, that you'll often attribute a loss to something outside of your control. Because I've often wondered as a coach, how do you get your players to do the learning process if you've already given them the backdoor excuse of a referee's incompetence?

[Matt Peat]

Firstly, when I have blamed the ref, I've always regretted it. I've always regretted it because it's weak. And then I think everything that happens on that field is a reflection of me. So I take responsibility. If a player's not playing well, have I picked the right team? Have I given the right information, the right practice, the right development? If we make a bad decision or we're not prepared for a scenario, or we look flustered by a scenario, ultimately I have control of the whole training program, who we sign, who we play, what tactics we play. So I think as soon as you start to turn everything inwards on yourself, it's a good habit as opposed to looking outside for things to blame. And again, I think it rubs off on your players then if they take ownership, complete ownership of every performance, I just think it's a healthier place to be.

[Interviewer]

How much impact do you think you have? This is one of those age old conundrums that people want. They see managers on touchlines at football or sat in the, in the coaching box in rugby league and they often wonder how much influence do you wield if you had to give me a rough percentage.

[Matt Peat]

It's a contradiction, this, because I do think it's all about the players.

[Podcast Host]

Yep.

[Matt Peat]

But you can have the best flower in the world, let's say. But it's in shit soil. It doesn't grow, does it?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matt Peat]

So I feel my job is to give the players the environment, to be the best they can possibly be. So much so that when they perform really well, it looks so natural and flow state and so apart from me, I don't want us to look coach driven and I don't want my players to look robotic through instruction. But we As a staff, which is led by me from a coaching perspective, set the environment for them to learn and thrive and grow. And then if they're not doing. If a player drops a ball, miss a tackle straight away, I would think, have I set up enough challenge?

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Matt Peat]

Too much challenge. Balance again. You know, have I given them the right message? Too much info. Not enough info.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Matt Peat]

Everything out there, really. Player body language, lack of body language. Communication. Lack of communication. I have some. Somewhere during that whole year or two years or three years. I've known some of these lads for 10 years.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matt Peat]

Somewhere. Maybe I could have helped a bit more or. That's got to be the question I ask myself. Dawn.

[Interviewer]

Yep.

[Matt Peat]

Isn't it? Was the message right before the game was the changing room too warm, too cold?

[Interviewer]

You'll think about that level of detail.

[Matt Peat]

I would think about changing rooms being too warm. But that's just an example that I think owning it all.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matt Peat]

Is the best way to. To look at it. You can't control it all. But accepting that everything in the environment I have a chance to shape. I set the whole. Ultimately I have the decision on when we train, when we don't train, how we travel, you know, where we stare. There's. There's no excuses and I make the decision. So I'd rather have it that way.

[Interviewer]

Have you ever looked at a team and felt that is the perfect epitome of everything that reflects your culture?

[Matt Peat]

There's been certain games where we've had to overcome adversity. Remember one where Cade Ellis got sent off early in the game. We had to play 80 minutes with 12 men. I think they're the ones you love. You love as a coach because they're purely about mateship. People do things they shouldn't, they shouldn't be able to do. They got that bit further and it was a hot day. And there's others. Listen, this team since having in position. They make me proud every day. Do you know what I mean?

[Interviewer]

Yep.

[Matt Peat]

But there's. There's some performances, those back to the walls late wins, where it's really about. It's about the connection, you know, it's about connection and really caring for one another.

[Interviewer]

So in a world where you get bombarded with stats and facts and data, what is it that you think cuts through that noise and tells you I've got a team here that's ready.

[Matt Peat]

You can feel it around the training ground and in a meeting and things. But it's when a team bend but they refuse to break and when everywhere you look they're covering for one another. At some point someone drops a ball. But you see it in the body language of the reaction that we're almost glad you've dropped it because we get the chance to defend. I'm almost glad you missed that tackle because I got the chance to make it fire. That selflessness. You see yourself in sports teams where they were never going to get beat today, that's when you're in your sweet spot.

[Interviewer]

So tell us about the game review. I'm thinking in particular here of when we sat down with one of your famous alumni, Sam Tompkins, who told us about the game review is never looking at the try. It's going back and looking at the 1 percenters that nobody, that no fan in the stand would naturally have their eye drawn to.

[Matt Peat]

Yeah, that's right. And I think there's never one thing. Very rarely is a tri conceded because of one thing. There's always been accumulation of things and opportunities as well to. To wrestle it back. You know, like I mentioned you, someone misses or doesn't quite get a tackle out on player three and you can see it on player six. So you can go back to player three. But also there's opportunities in there for you to wrestle that momentum and them are the really special players. You know you've got a reward. I think it can go even deeper than that where you show elements of body language and of communication and of responses to errors.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, go on, say more on this. Because momentum is one of these big. It's a buzzword, isn't it, that many coaches use and a lot of people, what is it like? How can I tell where momentum is shifting and how do you wrestle it back?

[Matt Peat]

Body language is a huge indicator on that. You see it a lot in a game of rugby. Like a player can get tackled in touch and the team that's made the tackle over and over and celebrate and the team that's. If you're not careful, the team that's had the guy put in touch can all drop their heads and it's a massive emotional win, isn't it, for one team or the other? Now that can happen in a game, but how quick do you bring it back to centered and balanced and ready to go again? If your head stays down for six seconds instead of two, then you probably miss the next play or two and that's when you end up stuck behind the post. So again, that emotional control, recognising that everyone's a bit down here, everyone's a bit pissed off because of that error. Back to how can we swing it back? Does it need someone to come out of the system and force the action? Do we just need to stay connected for a period? But you're going to see that small talk going on amongst your team. Yeah, we trained for it. We should, we should do more.

[Interviewer]

What are the kind of drills that you would use to train them to deal with adversity?

[Matt Peat]

I think the first thing is recognising it in showing some footage of it, discussing it, maybe showing examples of other teams or other organizations outside sport. You know, how they respond to a burst, to staying centered, getting back to process.

[Interviewer]

Yep.

[Matt Peat]

Learning practice, you can reward little touches, little conversations. There's so much you can do in practice. You can do it in practice where one team's not allowed to have body language and not allowed to communicate for a little bit and then they're allowed to. And they do it to a hyper state. You know, I like that one. Yeah. Or maybe just some of the players in the team. Right, you can't talk. You can talk. Right. Today I want you to be really mundane body language. And they'll feel so awkward that the next time they. But then as well you can reward touch, reward micro communication, not just talking but listening. It's an art in itself, isn't it? The communication, the body language. I think it's just having an eye on it.

[Interviewer]

I think what stands out in this interview, Matt, has been that it's nothing to do with rugby league, is it? It's about bringing and creating a culture of connectivity where people feel that they belong but they've got each other's back.

[Matt Peat]

Yeah, I'd say so. I mean the rugby league is, if you came into the environment, the team meetings, it's hyper analysed, it's very intense. But the players and my assistant coaches as well, like we play 30 odd games a year, so there's a lot of repetition there. You know, doing the basics really, really well, trying to improve attention to detail, data. I love the game. I love trying to unpick opposition teams and cover our weaknesses and our strengths. But I've just seen enough games, both codes of rugby actually to know that in the end the margins are so fine that the connection of the group, particularly in the most intense games, the most intense games, I think an ability to do basics exceptionally well. A game plan that everyone's got clarity around but all built on deep, deep connection and care for one another. I think it's, it's a great combination, tough to beat.

[Interviewer]

So if you had to summarize the three behaviors of a culture that you think are non negotiable. What are they?

[Matt Peat]

An appetite to learn. Like a real intense desire to improve and develop and get yourself better, but knowing that that's going to help the team as well. Consistency, just doing what you say you're gonna do. And I say that I think consistency is massively underrated. It's almost like people wouldn't be turned on by and described as consistent. But I think for a player, a coach, an employee, a friend, a dad, husband, it's a great thing to aspire to be that people know what they're going to get from you and you do what you say you're going to do. So ultimately the consistence, because trust is so important. That's how you get trust and then yourself, but caring about people around you as well. And the two sides to Kerr, the funny, compassionate, playful mate, but also the current teammate or current colleague who will tell you straight, will embrace conflict in a respectful way just to help you and because they know you do the same for them.

[Interviewer]

If you could go back to one moment of your coaching career, what would it be and why?

[Matt Peat]

I remember when we first won our first semifinal against Centellans and In the Challenge Cup. Yeah, in the Challenge Cup. So we were miles off. We were miles off being the best team, but we just beat the best team and they'd been the best for ages then. So probably the first time where I thought I were, you know, I wanted to beat them when I got a job. I think they'd won four on the spin. But that was when I knew we could, we could do it and we'd done it and it was taking us to Wembley. There was a. It was all new, it was. I'd been probably a bit scared of how it might unfold. So that was probably the one where I was like, big one. I weren't sure we could do it till then, you know, and then just everyone was in a great mood. You go into a final and kids were there and it was fantastic. I probably forgot some others, but yeah, that's one that always stands out for me. Feeling like, you know, I can do this.

[Interviewer]

If you could go and visit that 20 year old lad that was deciding to step away from playing and deciding to pursue a career as a coach, what would be the one bit of advice you'd pass on to him?

[Matt Peat]

I think the side that I've learned since having two daughters, I mean, it's hard to tell someone this where it's a little bit more compassionate, a little bit more understanding. I wish I would have got that a bit earlier so I'd be saying just try and be a bit more current.

[Interviewer]

You're a compulsive learner. What's the biggest lesson that you've learned from these field visits you've been to, the books you've read, the mentors you've been lucky enough to be mentored by? What's the one lesson you'd want to share?

[Matt Peat]

I think be yourself. But like, try and improve yourself. You can seek improvement, but then trust who you are, follow your intuition.

[Interviewer]

And finally, if you could pass on just one golden rule for a life of high performance, what would that be?

[Matt Peat]

I read a book called the Obstacle Is the Way and I think that's a really good mantra is when you're in a tough time, I certainly have seen this over the last five years. From our biggest losses and hardest nights has come our biggest growth and learning and development. So yeah, keep me moving forward. Obstacle Is the Way Matt, honestly, it's.

[Interviewer]

Been an absolute privilege to get to sit and pick your brains and listen to you. So thank you so much for being generous with your time and your insights.

[Matt Peat]

No, it's honored to be here. I'm a big fan. And yeah, it's a pleasure.

[Interviewer]

Thanks mate.

[Matt Peat]

Thank you.

[Podcast Host]

Well, thank you there to Matt for a properly rich, rewarding and incredibly revealing conversation about what it takes to succeed at the very highest level. If you know someone that you think might benefit from listening to this conversation, please consider passing it on to them. If you'd like to leave us a review, well, I'd be really grateful. But above all, we really hope you've enjoyed listening and you'll come and join us again soon.

[Matt Peat]

Foreign.

[ActiveCampaign Advertiser]

Activecampaign is the marketing automation platform built for big swings and big dreams with intelligent suggestions powered by AI and your data. Generate ideas in seconds, import your brand and create full campaigns with simple prompts set, personalized messages backed by real time feedback, smart segmentation and effortless reporting that tracks every win. Let's redefine what's possible together. Get started for [e-mail] why choose a.

[Sleep Number Advertiser]

Sleep number Smart bed Can I make my site softer?

[Matt Peat]

Can I make my site firmer?

[ActiveCampaign Advertiser]

Can we sleep cooler?

[Sleep Number Advertiser]

Sleep number does that cools up to eight times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side your sleep number setting Enjoy personalized comfort for better sleep night night after night. And now during our President's day sale, take 50% off our limited edition bed plus free premium delivery with any bed and base ends Monday. Only at a sleep number store or sleepnumber.com.

[Dr. Z]

Hey, I'm Dr. Z, and I'm a neurosurgeon. So that means long hours, early rounds, late nights, and everything in between. And through it all, I wear figs. They're comfortable when it counts and functional when I need them the most. So where do you wear your figs? On shift? On call? On the couch in the break room, listening to this podcast. Wherever it is, they fit right in. And now listeners of this podcast can get 15% off their first order. Just head to wherefigs.com and use code FIGSRX at checkout. That's wherefigs.com code FIGSRX.