The High Performance Podcast
Episode: Gareth Southgate: The Truth About Leaving England (E380)
Date: November 24, 2025
Hosts: Jake Humphrey & Damian Hughes
Guest: Gareth Southgate, former England football manager
Episode Overview
This episode is an in-depth, reflective conversation with Gareth Southgate following his departure as England manager after an eight-year tenure. Southgate discusses the immense pressures of leading the national team, the decisions and philosophies that shaped his leadership, the highs and lows of managing in the spotlight, and the enduring challenges and legacies left behind. The episode also explores broader lessons in leadership, resilience, and organizational culture, making it relevant far beyond football.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Why Southgate Left the England Role
- Changing Expectations & Narratives
- After initial progress and optimism, public and media narratives became critical regardless of performance (“there's a narrative about perception of style of play... people are saying, you're the person holding the team back” – Southgate, 04:18–06:00).
- Internal pressure grew as the enjoyment faded and the team struggled to meet external expectations.
- Impact on Personal Well-being
- Southgate felt the joy and sense of purpose erode; even great victories were fleeting in satisfaction (“if the joy's gone, then you're going to find it hard to give that feeling that you need to give the players” – Southgate, 08:45).
- He recognized the need for fresh leadership after feeling incumbent fatigue and sensed it was the right time, regardless of results.
- Support and Decision with Family
- Southgate revealed he asked his family not to attend matches due to the vitriolic environment, choosing to shield loved ones from abuse (13:14–14:47).
2. Leadership in Times of Intense Scrutiny
- Handling Media and Public Criticism
- Managed ongoing criticism for years; efforts to recalibrate the narrative had limited effectiveness as it was a long-term trend (“it had been building for...four years of not picking the right team...constant fight” – Southgate, 16:42–17:35).
- Internal Leadership and Group Management
- Regular honest meetings with players and staff to reinforce reality, maintain calm, and keep focus on controlling what they could (“my job through that tournament was to keep reminding them...we're showing resilience and spirit” – Southgate, 10:16–12:57).
- Stressed the importance of the leader’s emotional projection during adversity (“they needed to see the leader is confident of where we’re heading” – Southgate, 12:30).
3. Redefining England’s Culture
- Diagnosing an Unhappy, Disconnected Team (2016)
- On arrival, found disconnection with fans and media, and players paralyzed by fear of failure (“players just protecting themselves from failure...fear of being the one who lost it” – Southgate, 28:42–30:20).
- Building Psychological Security
- Implemented rituals, messaging, and behaviors emphasizing respect, collective responsibility, and small habits (“when those small things are right, nobody actually notices them...but when they start to disappear, you get this creep” – Southgate, 33:17).
- Shared stories like Kieran Trippier cleaning up after the team as a symbol of cultural standards (37:11–37:42).
- Learning from Elite Environments
- Used shared discomfort experiences (e.g., Marines training) to forge resilience and identify real leaders under pressure (34:41–37:05).
- Invited outside perspectives (e.g., the Marines’ leadership appraisal of squad; poker player Casper Berry for decision theory; data scientists for penalties).
4. Penalty Shootout Redemption
- Personal Growth from Failure (Euro ‘96)
- Southgate’s missed penalty in 1996 profoundly shaped his approach to pressure (“what flipped that for me was I got dropped...realized I’d been through the worst” – Southgate, 50:10).
- Strategy & Preparation
- Led data-driven, psychologically prepared approaches to shootouts that broke longstanding England “curses” (52:36–54:41). Notably, his 2018 World Cup shootout win was a signature moment of redemption for himself and the team.
- Shared process and rationale for who takes penalties, the role of evidence (penalty stats, mental prep), and how decisions were revisited and refined after the Euro 2021 final loss (61:55–66:53).
- Revealed learning from mistakes, including the need for less penalty practice for certain players like Marcus Rashford (64:29).
5. People Management: Hard Decisions
- Discussing High-profile Player Transitions
- On retiring Wayne Rooney from international football: stressed empathy, respect, and honest communication – and credited Rooney’s accepting attitude (67:08–69:23).
- Emphasized the need for difficult conversations and not avoiding hard truths for the sake of longer-term organizational health and personal development (69:41–72:47).
6. Broader Reflections on Leadership & Legacy
- How Southgate Hopes to Be Remembered
- Recognizes dual legacies—trophy counts and the transformation of culture, connectivity, and systems within England football (“if I was talking to youngsters about leadership...what did you leave behind?” – 72:54).
- Accepts some will focus on missed trophies, but champions a wider, more humanistic definition of legacy.
- Career Transition & Purpose
- Open about career anxieties and the challenges of moving on from a purpose-driven, high-performance role (“I’m now in a career transition moment almost” – 74:17).
- Sees a new mission in mentoring and inspiring hope in young people, challenging negativity about the country and the future (75:57–76:53).
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- On Leaving and Changing Expectations
- “If the joy’s gone, you're going to find it hard to give that feeling that you need to give the players.”
—Gareth Southgate (08:45)
- “If the joy’s gone, you're going to find it hard to give that feeling that you need to give the players.”
- On Media Pressure
- “The important thing is they come for me, not for the team. My job’s to take it for the team.”
—Gareth Southgate (17:44)
- “The important thing is they come for me, not for the team. My job’s to take it for the team.”
- On Small Cultural Details
- “When those small things are right, nobody actually notices them. But when they start to disappear, you get this creep of behaviors that slowly erodes.”
—Gareth Southgate (33:17)
- “When those small things are right, nobody actually notices them. But when they start to disappear, you get this creep of behaviors that slowly erodes.”
- On Vulnerability
- “I'm not somebody that worries about showing vulnerability... You're opening up for them... It's a sign of strong confidence.”
—Gareth Southgate (58:38–59:33)
- “I'm not somebody that worries about showing vulnerability... You're opening up for them... It's a sign of strong confidence.”
- On Penalty Redemption
- “Without a doubt...I’ve become a world expert on penalty shoots now.”
—Gareth Southgate (52:36) - “The more you build up the percentages in your favor, then logically to me, you've got a better chance of succeeding.”
—Gareth Southgate (66:53)
- “Without a doubt...I’ve become a world expert on penalty shoots now.”
- Post-Final Homecoming Story
- “The Spanish manager’s in Madrid on an open top bus... I open the door, and there’s Ted [the dog]. He doesn’t care about the final, does he? He’s thrown up all over the bedroom floor.”
—Gareth Southgate (24:41)
- “The Spanish manager’s in Madrid on an open top bus... I open the door, and there’s Ted [the dog]. He doesn’t care about the final, does he? He’s thrown up all over the bedroom floor.”
- On Future Purpose
- “I want to help this, change this narrative around our country that the country’s a mess... Let's give young people hope.”
—Gareth Southgate (75:57)
- “I want to help this, change this narrative around our country that the country’s a mess... Let's give young people hope.”
Important Timestamps
- 02:17 – 08:45: Why Southgate stepped down – expectations, personal well-being, and joy lost
- 10:16 – 15:54: Handling pressure, team meetings, and the role of family
- 28:42 – 34:21: Transformation of England team’s culture – connection, trust, behavior
- 34:41 – 37:42: Marines experience; leadership under adversity; small details matter
- 45:40 – 50:01: Media criticism, footballers’ psychology, and reinforcing confidence
- 52:36 – 56:32: Penalty shootouts – lessons from Euro 96, World Cup 2018, process and prep
- 61:55 – 66:53: Decision-making under pressure, data vs. intuition, adjusting philosophy
- 67:08 – 72:47: Managing player retirements; communications and tough conversations
- 72:54 – 76:53: Legacy, scars, career transition, and hope for the next generation
- 24:41: Gareth’s return home after the Euros final – the dog and life’s grounding realities
Additional Insights
- Leadership Mantras: Southgate values humility, empathy, and clear communication, resisting authoritarian models for more collaborative, trust-based approaches.
- Team Rituals: Emphasizes the compounding effect of daily habits and standards (e.g., picking up kit, tidiness), translating off-pitch standards directly onto performance.
- Legacy Beyond Results: Measures success by transformed culture, renewed pride, player development, and stronger connectivity — not just trophies.
- Universal Lessons: Episode underscores that leadership lessons from elite sport apply across business, schools, families, and all organizations.
Tone and Final Impression
Southgate spoke candidly, combining vulnerability with poise, humility with authority. The episode is reflective, honest, occasionally poignant, yet ultimately optimistic about leadership, personal growth, and the power of creating positive environments—even amid daunting challenges.
For listeners seeking inspiration and practical lessons on high-performance culture, resilience, and human-centered leadership, this episode is essential.