Jake (5:49)

This is a really interesting one for our listeners that might find themselves, say, stuck in a job that they know doesn't excite them, but they have a level of competence at it and it brings in the bills. And you were on a similar path in terms of pursuing your law degree and you were looking to pursue that route. What were the kind of questions that you were asking yourself that gave you the courage to walk away and pursue the risk of a career in Hollywood?

Matthew McConaughey (6:14)

Well, I was a sophomore in college at this time and the only thing I had ever thought I wanted to be or talked about with my family or was expected to be was a lawyer. And I was right on with that thought. I could have gone on and been a decent lawyer and would have been excited about that. But around my sophomore year, I started not sleeping well with the idea that, wait a minute, two more years here, then I'm going to law school for four years, then get out and get a job, I'm going to be 30 before I actually get in and I was like, I'm not sure I want to spend my entire 20s learning a craft. I want to be like, I just want to try to put my mark in here somewhere or just go find out. I need something more experiential. I need to, you know, I just gotta get my hands in the clay and something. And I had been writing at the time and had shared some short stories with a friend of mine who told me he thought they were pretty good. And then he came to me said, boy, the short shoes are good, but also, you know, you got good character. What think about in front of the camera. And I was like, ah, nah, little, you know, was just too avant garde of a thought to be an actor. But I did have, I was able to say, yes, the storytelling business. So my dad, where I thought he was going to go, you want to do what? Meaning I was raised blue collar, you work your way up the ladder. The idea of going into the arts as a career, I thought he was going to go, son, you do that shit on Saturday afternoon as a hobby if you want, but you need to get a job that pays. And well he didn't. What he actually told me was, is that what you. Once I said, that's what I want to do. He goes, well, don't half ass it. So in that line, he not only gave me approval, he gave me a kick in the backside, a launch pad, rocket fuel. More than privilege. He gave me freedom and accountability and responsibility to go try and make it happen. But it's the fact that I wasn't sleeping well and I was willing to take the risk to say, well, you also have an innate ability here to be, to tell stories and get into, let's take our chance. It's not a, you know, not going to have to be at school as long you're, you know. I remember thinking, Hollywood doesn't give a damn about your gpa. They want, they want to see something, you know what I mean? They, they want to see a product, a piece of content. So that was like, well you can start trying to make content immediately, you know, even while you're here in school, try to, they're not, they're not looking at your ID to say, oh, you can't, we can't take that great piece of content because you're still in college. They'll take it from anybody five year old, you know what I mean? So I think it was a risk that I was wanting to take, but I felt I did have the innate ability to do it.

Damien (8:36)

A lot of people Will look for the path of least resistance. They will always look for a reason not to take the risk, whether it's children leaving college, whatever. What's your advice to those people?

Matthew McConaughey (8:48)

On every project film I do, I go through a process of this one. I'm looking for a character or a story that I'm like, whoa. Huh? I don't know what I'm gonna do with this, but, geez, I can't wait right now. That's a good fear of I'm gonna dive in. I'm trusting I'll come up the other side with an identity for a character, and I will, as a architect, constructed, hopefully a character that I can feel was true and I can be honored with portraying. But there's other times I'm scared because I'm going, like, not sure about this director. Not sure that actually the financers really want to make the movie I want to make. I think they may have been just telling me they wanted to make the movie that I. That I see in the script, because they just want me to say, yeah, the job. Now that's a fear that I want to go. It'd still be a risk to take it, but maybe the pedigree around me is not. Is not right. So that's a fear that tells me not. That's a good reason to back off of it. So what I'll do is say, I'll get a script character. I really want to do it, and I'll start out my yeses and my nose, right? And then I'll go to my wife doing it. Starts and starts in January. Doing it. Get ready. So we're going to be over in Mauritius for four. Four months. And we're going, and there we go. And I got to do it. And I sit in that. In that state of mind, fully convinced, yes, for 10 days. And I then measure myself for that 10 days. Well, how many times did you start seeing the world through the idea, through the eyes of this character, Jotting down notes, you're already getting creatively turned on. What? What, did two other opportunities come up in January that you already immediately said, nope, not doing it because I'm doing this other thing. That's good reason to usually say, yes, let's do it. But alternatively, 10 days go by. Man, I woke up in the middle of the night three times going, oh, I'm not sure about so and so in this movie. I'm not sure about that. Well, that's something to listen to as well. Maybe that's a reason not to. So then after 10 days, I go, now I'm gonna live 10 days. No, I'm not doing it. Camilla. Not doing it. Call off the trip. We're not going away. Now I measure that 10 days. Now what wakes me up at night? Did I wake up at night going, whoo. Thank you. Dodged a bullet there, buddy. Good move. Or did I wake up at night going, I have to play that character in this movie. I have to. No. I can't believe I let that go. Then leads to a good reason to maybe go, let's do it. So to measure, to commit to. Yes, to something. See how you feel. See what bubbles up. To commit to no. See what bubbles up. But convince yourself that it's happening. It's not foolproof, but it helps a lot on measurement of whether to take the risk or not. When you think about meal kit companies, what do you see? Probably long, complicated recipes and subscriptions you can't escape. But with the new Blue Apron, we're doing meal delivery differently. No subscription needed, Faster, easier meals, and the same dedication to quality we've always had. Shop 100 plus meals at blueapron.com, get 50% off your first two orders with code apron50. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blueapron.com terms for more. This is a Monday.com ad, the same Monday.com designed for every team. The same Monday.com with built in AI scaling your work from day one. The same Monday.comwith an easy and intuitive setup. Go to Monday.com and try it for free.

Damien (12:32)

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Jake (13:34)

So.

Damien (13:34)

Do you check in with yourself often? Every night.

Matthew McConaughey (13:37)

Maybe not try to through the day. I mean I don't have a, you know, a scheduled ritual. I, you know, I, I check in, we as a family check in with gratitude before meals and then I check in, you know, with myself through the day and then at the end of the day I like to go back and try and do a little inventory of how was my day. Why am I having trouble remembering what I had for breakfast? Why am I having trouble remember? Well, that means you need to slow down, actually go back and think. So you can have some demarcations between the events because you know, we get busy, they all start piling up each other and I'm good in autopilot. I'm really good when I'm running. You know, I'm like line them up, I'll remember what the hell I did next year. You know what I mean? I'm good, I'm good in that mode. But I like it better when I'm like at the end of the day. Okay, demarcation. How to do today. We knew we had a big week Monday. Yep, yep, good. Nailed that one. Okay, put that aside. What do we got now? A little small projection. What do we got tomorrow? What time does they get started? We've got. Okay, we start with that yet? I got that break and then we can have lunch and then I'll come back. First part of the day is about green light, second parts about moc. Then I got the kit.

Jake (14:40)

Yep.

Matthew McConaughey (14:40)

Okay, three different mode. Yep, got it. Then I'm. That helps me go to sleep. But I, I do do a little check in with the day and a little projection into. Let's look at what we got tomorrow.

Jake (14:50)

So where does the diary keeping fit in with that then, Matthew? Because that really intrigued me that you kept a diary for so long. Is that not part of your way of processing events and making sense of the world around you?

Matthew McConaughey (15:03)

Well, sure it is. I mean, what do we usually go to a diary for? A journal? Especially when we go there when we're lost, when we're having trouble, we're trying to figure out and we're confused. And that's what I originally went to it for. You know, why'd so and so break up with me? Why do I got pimples on my face? You know, that kind of stuff as a 14 year old kid. And then I remember reminding myself in my early 20s, I was in a time life where I was rolling. I mean, my relationships were good. I had cash in my pocket. I had a four handicap in golf, I had a girlfriend, I was making grades, mom and dad were happy. I was rolling. Well, those are the times you don't really go right in your diary, right. Because you're like going, I found it. I'll never lose it. Which we all know is false because you will lose it. And you will get in a rut again. You will. When you're on frequency, you will get off frequency again. There is no ta da moment. So I remember going, you better write. You better keep writing now while you're rolling, because when you do get off frequency again later in life, you might want to have something to look back at. And I did. And that practice helped me in times when I was in a rut to go back and go, you had this year here where you were catching green lights in life. I mean, not relationships, job, sleep, self respect, self confidence. And I look back and I was like, well, who were you hanging out with? Where were you going? How much sleep are you getting? What were you eating? What were you drinking? What were you doing first thing to start the day off? What was your, you know, are you going to church? Whatever those may be. And they helped me recalibrate and go, well, let's pick some of those habits up that we kind of thought we could take for granted here for a while. And they helped me get back on the rails a little bit.

Jake (16:45)

So one of the phrases that Jake and I use frequently on this podcast, Matthew, is success leaves clues that when you're successful, there's lots of clues left behind for it. And that sounds like what you've done over your career.

Matthew McConaughey (16:59)

Yes. And what's the world tell us to do? Dissect your failure? No, dissect the success, too, at least, because you don't need it. And there is a science to satisfaction.

Jake (17:10)

It was a really interesting two anecdotes in. In the book that intrigued us was that one was the liberation when you first played the role in Dazed and Confused, that you almost just played the character. And then you tell the story about when you. You tried to do that same approach and you didn't read the script. So again, that's a really interesting way that you learn from failure and success. So how do you get that balance now, Matt?

Matthew McConaughey (17:39)

That was a time. Look, I fell into my first acting role. There were three lines written. I worked for three weeks. I knew my man Wooderson, so I Would just throw me in the situation and like, somebody say something, and I'd just be my man. Well, then I get out to Hollywood and I went through a patch of about a year where I was, wasn't getting jobs and I was too tight and I was talking to people about acting lessons and stuff. So I started to think about this thing that I had a natural ability to do. And as we all know, when you start to learn a craft that you may have an innate ability for, there's a transition to move it from the intellectual into the soul and the lineage in the body, you know, and that can be an awkward transition. Kind of thinking about stuff where you were just kind of doing it. You're learning the math of what you, of your poetry and that there's a. It's, it's a good bridge to cross. But while you're on the bridge, it can be a little wobbly. And it was for me. So I get this bright idea that I'm like, I'm not getting any jobs. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm auditioning. But I feel like every time I leave the audition, I'm like, ah, you left a little bit in the tank. You could have done more. You didn't take a risk. So I'm like, you know what? I got offered this blind offer on this job one day. Work, no audition, nothing. Come on. I said, I'll take the job. And then I get this idea. I go, you know what? I know what it is. I got to go back to how I did my very first film when there was no scripted lines, where I just knew my man. And I did what my man would do and said what he would do. I've been overthinking this acting thing too much. So you know what? I'm not even going to read the script. Give me the log line of who my guy is, what is his obstacle, what are, what do I need and what do I need to overcome that's got to happen in the scene. No matter what if I. And I'll just be my man. And I'm not even going to read the scene. Bad idea. And right before we're about to heal. Action. To do this scene, which I have never read or know nothing about, the PA comes by. Production assistant said, Mr. McKinley, you like some sides? It's a miniature version of the script of scenes that day. And evidently I was feeling a little insecure because I said, yeah, let me have a peek of those right before we're about to go on action and I get them and I decide in my head. I remember thinking, well, I'll have a look at the dialogue because if it's written well, it's obviously what my man would say. And if it's not written well, I'll just say and do what I would do anyway and throw it away. 4 page monologue by my guy in Spanish. Oh, man. And I remember saying, can I get 12 minutes? Because I thought in my head that that was enough time to not be too inconsiderate to the crew, but also enough time to learn a four page monologue in Spanish. Hey, I took Spanish for one semester in the 11th grade.

Damien (20:27)

I love it. Oh, man.

Matthew McConaughey (20:29)

Embarrassment. Sweat started and I was so embarrassed that from then on I said, no, no, no, no. You prepare to the hilt so you can have the freedom. Go. Don't get, get over that bridge of learning. Like, learn it so much where you're over it, where you don't have to think about it. So the next thing, I come up for A Time to Kill, I'm offered a small role. Well, I not only read the script, I read the book back cover to cover and I. And I'm confident enough to go in there and tell the director, no, I don't think I need this role. I think I need the lead.

Jake (20:58)

But that's an important point, isn't it? That it's almost doing the work liberates you. So again, when you tell about that, that when you went for the, for the lead of in A Time to Kill, you read it mechanically and then the director said to you, now read it as you would do, and liberated you. Is that true?

Matthew McConaughey (21:16)

Conservatory Liberal Late is another way of saying that, you know, and I don't mean that political terms. I mean, what are the rules of the game here? What are all my options? What are all my play calls? What's the playbook? Let me, let me study it all. Get it down so well that when it's time to go. In the proverbial game of life, when we're in between action and cut of whatever our job is, we've thrown the playbook away. Come on, let's play. Because I'm not thinking about it, because I prepared enough for it. It's not up here anymore. It's in here and down here in my loins and legs. Let's go.

Damien (21:48)

It is so good to hear this, Matthew, because it, it reminds us of another theme we talk about often on this podcast, which is have an idea of where you Want to go. But be flexible about how you get there. Unexpected red lights. And you've just given us some great stories relating to some red lights, but they send you down a path you weren't expecting, and green lights come your way. And that's. That's exactly what's happened here. The negatives creating the positives.

Matthew McConaughey (22:12)

Look, you gotta have the dark to appreciate the light. You gotta. I mean, at the end, in the end, you gotta. I mean, we don't like the yellow and reds lights in our life, but damn if most of the time they aren't something we need. So then goes back to your earlier question. Do we recognize what the lesson we got from them? Because yeah, all red lights. Now let's do suck. If we don't actually realize what we were supposed to learn, and if we don't realize what we're supposed to learn in the crisis or hardships of life or things we don't get that we wanted, what do we do? Stuck on this little, little merry go round of nothing but green lights, running out of gas because life's for nothing but entertainment. Well, that sounds like a bunch of. You know what I mean? Where's the evolution? Where's the ascension? Or as I, as I tell my mom, who's taught us this great trait of being resilient, right? So resilient, in fact, like we were taught to get up, dust yourself off. Get up, dust yourself off. Carol, get up, dust yourself off. And I remember going to. When I was 22 years old, I was like, mom, this theory, yours has been very valuable for me and I would not be the man I am right now unless I would have this resilience you taught. But I said, it seems to have a loophol. She goes, what? I go, if you're so resilient and you just get up and dust yourself off and carry on, every single time you become a repeat offender of, of the thing you kept doing. Screwing up. Meaning, like if, if you, if you step in, step and. And every time you step in, you pop up and scrape it off and keep running. And you come around the track and you step in again. So the loophole is. I think I'm gonna not just scrape shit off my boots right now and keep running, I'm actually gonna turn around and go, why do I keep stepping in that pile of. So next time I come around the bend, I can go around it, I can hop over it or, you know, find another path. So create a yellow light, a red light to go. That's the time where you Go, why am I stepping in that? That's, that's the self imposed red or yellow light. Or you say, when we talk about taking risk to realize what the lesson is, the self imposed yellow and red light to go, wait a minute, let me take pause here. Am I supposed to learn from this? And if you do that, that yellow and red then becomes green.

Jake (24:18)

How do you bring people into your world that, that facilitate that ability to learn lessons?

Matthew McConaughey (24:24)

I wade into relationships slowly. I come in with full trust until you give me reason to not trust you fully, which I've been told that most people don't do that, and I didn't know that, but I wade into. I measure people. Not all, you know, starts off by what they say. That's usually the obvious, what they say and do. Then you start, you get to know someone. I start to read, try to read. What is it they didn't say, what was in the quiet times, what was in between the pauses, you know, because we're all, you know, actors to some extent in our own life, we portray different things to get what we want. And, you know, I got no problem with that. And hell, I do it too. I've always said this. Give me the asshole over the dork. Well, at least you know where the asshole stands, right? The dork's trying to be everything to everybody, which means he's about nothing. So just the asshole. At least you can go, I don't like that guy. But, man, at least I know where he stands. You know what I mean? I can try. Give me that guy. You know what I mean? So it's the dorks I don't like. People that maybe try to get into my life, that maybe have an alternative ambition or do not really have their best, their best intents for me or maybe aren't willing to get to know me well enough to actually promote the best of me, which I think we all know that. I think that's my definition, what a good friend does. He knows you. And he. And he helps promote more of the best of you. That's what my wife's got a real talent of doing for me. And that doesn't mean she always says yes to me and she disagrees and she's like, no, I think this one, you're, you're, you're swinging out of bounds here. This is, I think you, this is not for. I know you're into new ideas, Matthew, but this one, you're out of bounds or whatever that is a career choice or something. And I don't, I don't have a huge circle of close friends. I have a lot of acquaintances, but I don't have, I have a group of men that I'm very good friends with that I call the fraternity of men that we are. We, we are all investigating ourselves. Who, how can we be better men? How can we be better fathers? How can we be better husbands? How can we also understand that we got to work and we got to create? Man's got to create. Man has to have work. Man asked to have something that would go, you know, we have a different sense of accomplishment. And I know I need sense of accomplishment. I don't want to be obsessed by it, but I'm like, I, I do need to accomplish, to have my own feelings of significance. And so I like talking about people with big eye, with big ideas. And again, that long view. We were going back. What, what's that? What's that? What's, what are we really doing here, man? What's really going on? We break this down. Tell you who's super fun to have these conversations with, fellow countryman Guy Ritchie. That guy never talks about the weather. He's straight, too. All right, so you believe in God. Let's talk about it. Oh, and it's like he likes to go big quick. But I have a certain group of friends that we talk, you know, we talk, try to talk about the big things. Existential questions, what is it all about? What really matters? What doesn't.

Jake (27:16)

Given your background or coming from that blue collar background that you've described about your father and your mother and where you grew up, those seem like untypical types of questions that would be asked for somebody in that environment. So how would you encourage our listeners to start asking those questions and feel comfortable that the benefits of asking them are going to be worth it?

Matthew McConaughey (27:40)

Yeah, because I, you know, we didn't, we were not an introspective family growing up. My mom and we didn't. We're not a well read family. We weren't allowed to watch tv. My mom would put kick us outside of Mexico, play outside before we could read a book. But I don't know where the, I don't know where, why I started questioning those things early. But look, on a very simple level, let's go back to what we were talking about earlier. That everybody that is going like, well, you know, for whatever reason, I don't, I'm not purchasing what you're talking about, McConaughey. Or maybe I don't understand it, or maybe I don't want to understand it. Or maybe they're going, yeah, you're in a privileged position to sit on a choice for 10 days yes and 10 days, no. I got to make the decision right now and I got three hours. You know, whatever that may be. What each of us can do is go, do we want to be our more true self tomorrow? Do we believe that life can have a bit of an ascension of evolution? I believe it can. Or what the hell is time for, right? I mean, can we. Do we want to be a little bit better, a little bit more true? All right, we ain't got to solve it all right now, but if we can look in the mirror and say, hey, be a little more fair today, I'm actually going to be a little more respectful of the work wife's been doing. Geez, I've been doing the work, but I got it. You know what? She's really been taking care of this thing over here, whether it be the, the kids or her own job. I need to be real respectful that I've been kind of riding over that, taking that part for granted. I'm going to give that a little more respect or I'm going to be a little. Yeah, I'm going to have a better sense of humor. It's a good one to start with. I'm going to get some of the things I'm getting a little bit ticked off about that I'm going to, I'm going to laugh actually, instead of snapping or I'm going to giggle. Be little thing. It can be a good thing for yourself. All these, I think are just pick out a little something that you can say. You're going to get a little bit better at each day and that is really as good as it gets. I think we got to get this thing out of our mind. We're obsessed with results, man. We got this idea and look, I love chasing results. I'm, I'm a big fan. I write the headline first and then try to live the story towards it many times and have pulled it off. But at the same time, what do I find when I get to the headline? Oh, the story still continues. It wasn't. We have no ta da moment where we go, ah, I did it now. I finally arrived. That moment never comes once you think you get there. It opens up another 40 lanes in your highway of places to go. It doesn't get the. The doesn't get thinner in many ways. The direction you may get further down the line, so your direction may be more clear, but it doesn't get there's not fewer options. So if we can just ask ourselves if we can be a little bit better, Can I be a little bit better at this? I want to be a little bit better at this. More small increments. And if we can just keep doing that, commit to the chase, stay in the race of trying to be more better, a little more true to ourselves, hop out of ourselves from time to time, a week ahead of us. How's that decision going to look to me next Friday? How's it going to look next month, next year? See how far away you can come, how much? Because everyone's got a different threshold for how far out they can project themselves. If you want to tell somebody, go out a year. That's too far for a lot of people. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Some people, you can say, they can go off to the eulogy and say, yeah, that's where I want to look back from. But as far as you can get ahead of yourself, just try to have a little objective, look back and go, what am I going to think about this decision tomorrow? I'm gonna go fit. You can do that, man. Everyone can do that. You can do that. That's as good as it gets. I think we're all chasing yet, and if we realize that we never are going to arrive. That's the point. There is no yet. It's always yet. And then if we can go, ah, life's a verb. It's the process. That's as good as it gets. All right, I'm in.

Damien (31:29)

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Matthew McConaughey (33:24)

Hi, I'm Melissa Banishai, CEO and co founder of Baked by Melissa. As a mom, I find deciding what to make for dinner the hardest decision of my day. That's why I'm partnering with Blue Apron to bring you delicious and nutritious dinners that are quick and easy. Like your mom. Just kidding. Your Mom's amazing. Get 35% off your first order at Blue Apron with promo code Melissa. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blueapron.com terms for more. Okay, love you. Bye.

Jake (33:58)

So when you stepped up on that stage and received the Oscar, then, because I think that's a really powerful message that you're giving, that there's no ta da moment. So when you're winning what is regarded as the ultimate accolade in your industry, what were you feeling?

Matthew McConaughey (34:13)

I was feeling, first, validation from my peers. All right. Second, I remember going like, you performed your craft, your art, Matthew, to such an extent that it translated to people and your peers who are great at what they do, and they deemed you to have done the most excellent job at this of anyone in the whole year. Boy, that's finite translation. Boy, those times I was like, you intended to do something to tell such a truth on a man by embodying him through this character, that other people saw themselves in that man and saw themselves in me as that man. Other people saw humanity to an extent that was so precise that they went, yes, that's great work. That's craftsmanship yes. So that was a pinnacle in my career as an actor. Did it give me confidence? Sure. Did it make me go see. You were right to hold out for that two years of not working when you were just doing wrong. You were right to prepare so hard to come in and be the master of your man and stand up for your man and tell people he's mine. I'm not asking permission. He's mine. I own him. I know. Boy, I'm glad you had that confidence to. To do that and believe that Matthew at that time. Because look, it translated once again. I want. The deeper I went to the eye, the more it became relatable to the we.

Damien (35:40)

You know, it reminds me of a really nice quote in your book where you talk about reaching beyond your grasp. You said have immortal finish lines and turn your red lights green because a roof is a man made thing.

Matthew McConaughey (35:52)

I love that one. You know the story of Icarus, right? Firing too close to the sun and the sun go up the wax wings and they get. You're gonna get too close to the sun. Their wings wax holding. Their wings melt. I think we suffer from the opposite when we think in our mind, oh, get too close to the sun. Oh, this is too much. This is the peak of my ability, man. It ain't even close to melting. You know what I mean? I think our roofs are so much more immortal. And when we put our roofs and our limitations on ourselves, that's. We mortally do those to ourselves, you know, to see what's happening to the 11th percent of ourselves. We have so much further to go than we allow ourselves to believe. We have these limitations that we put on ourselves that are really not our right to put on ourselves. Where the hell do we get off? It's an arrogant thing. Let's, let's let me invert it. I think it's arrogant, actually. Say, no, no, no. That's, that's, that's, that's as good. That's as much as I can do. That's as good as I can be. That's as true as I can.

Jake (36:51)

Can be.

Matthew McConaughey (36:52)

What, dude? Wait, what are you talking about? You act, you know, we, we think it's like the fourth quarter or the end of the second half in the pitch, you're like, dude, game just started. We don't. Don't be so flattered with yourself. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, you thought you, you while you were sitting there, you're already looking at the Jumbotron like this. Guess what? Everyone else is running past you while you're admiring your work. No raise the freaking roof, man. You know in the reach beyond the grasp of when do we get tight?

Jake (37:21)

So Matthew, would you tell our listeners then how do you dream? How do you set these big aspirations for yourself?

Matthew McConaughey (37:29)

I don't really, I don't know how I don't, you know I don't know how much it is that I chase a result. It seems to me that it's a dance between the two sometimes I said earlier, as I said earlier, write the headline, set the goal up, go chasing, write the story towards it but other times and I think just as much or maybe more I just, I take a risk that I feel like oh this could be valuable and I'm willing to pay the cost of whatever the consequences are and I'm going to learn to fly while I'm after I've jumped off the cliff. So I think my sick. I know my successes have been imbalance of those two Meeting the woman for me, Camilla I found she came to me when I quit looking for her. I had this written down I want to find that woman for me and she's out there. I'm going looking for once I'm looking at every red light and the produce section and the checkout counter and everybody once I said stop that Once I shook hands with going you can be an 88 year old bachelor and it's okay. Quit trying to make something different happen. Well as soon as I did that, guess who showed up.

Damien (38:36)

Love it. Is there something else I want to pick up on in your book? Take a road trip. Why is that so important?

Matthew McConaughey (38:43)

Look, my favorite seat for thought has always been behind the wheel of whatever truck I'm driving. Something about performing this very simple motor skill means your foot's on the pedal. You haven't thought about your foot being on the pedal but you're maintaining a certain speed. Your hands on the wheel never really thought about staying in the lane but you're in the lane. The motor skill opens up imagination and and I think it's. It's like just having that little simple motor skill that you don't have to think about doing that opens up a creative side and it's in motion. I like to be in motion. Even now I usually don't sit down when I'm on I'm doing calls. It's not I'm. I like to walk but a road trip to slowly snake across a continent or nation see new sites to not be obsessed with I gotta be there by to the transient age of A. I want to. I got an inch. I want to pull off over. Pull off over here. Check this out. That's where I met so many interesting people. That's where I got into some wild scenarios that were, you know, some are in the book, some are not. It's where I wandered, you know, across places like that place in Montana that night when I came across that lodge. Wow. Which was a beautiful, heartbreaking story. But, yeah, I don't know. I just always like exploring and. And a road trip, you know, I learn more about my home when I take a road trip and leave it.

Damien (40:14)

Talking of your home, you said you've got a group of guys, and you talk about how to be the best parents, the best dads you can be. What have you learned in that space? This is something we discuss often on this podcast. The power of parenting.

Matthew McConaughey (40:26)

Well, and the only thing I ever knew I wanted to be was a father. But like any father learns right away is being a father is a whole lot about. A whole lot more than just making a baby. You know, fatherhood is a verb. I mean, it starts after you made the baby. And so what's the first thing I noticed? I think every parent notices. Oh, it's more DNA than I thought. You know, they kind of are who they are. Okay. I really thought it was an environment. No, they are who they are. I can shepherd them, I can nudge them. I can put the things in front of them that turn them on that they love, and I can remove things in front of them that harm them. But, oh, I don't want to remove everything in front of them that harms them because they need to learn. So let me remove the. You know, I call it the. Like, how high is the tree limb? Kids aren't afraid heights until they fall. So they're out there on the tree limb, and you're, like, going, june, getting up pretty high, but if you fall from this one, we might be going to the emergency room. Well, you know, you kind of go, well, if you fall from this one, you're gonna. You're gonna get bumped and bruised, and at least it's on the grass down there. I'll. I'll let you take your chances. Then they get to a certain height, you're like, whoa, buddy, if you fall from there, I'm. My heart's skipping a beat right now. I need to say, hey, come on back over here. Check this out. I want to remove that harm, you know, that. That. That harm that could really harm them but not remove enough that they're not gonna learn that life is a rodeo. You gotta negotiate to every turn, and it's on you. You know, let them get in the argument on a playground. Go at it. Work it out. Your bullies are all over the world, man. Deal with it. Oh, you don't want to.

Jake (42:10)

Okay.

Matthew McConaughey (42:11)

You don't want to get in a fight. I got a son who's a pastor. Great. Not asking you to, but you're smarter than that kid, so outwit him.

Damien (42:17)

How does your financial success affect your mindset with your kids in terms of developing resilience for them? Because they're kids that will always have a parachute, aren't they?

Matthew McConaughey (42:26)

Great question. And it's something that my wife and I talk about often because our kids are born into an affluence that neither one of us were. And I don't want them to be falsely modest about that affluence. I don't want them to be ashamed of that influence. But I also don't want them to be soft because of that influence. So what we try to do is say, you know, like. Like, kid at school the other day tells my son, yeah, I bet you. I bet you live in a big house because your dad's rich and famous. And so what'd you say to him? He goes, I said, well, yeah, we do have a nice house. I go, did you bow your head? He goes, yeah, I lowered my head a little bit. I was like, you keep your head high. You're not being arrogant. But you tell him, yes, we do live in big house. My dad happens to be rich and famous because he's really good at what he does, and he works really hard at it. And that work he's put in has helped get us that house. So I said, don't you lower your eyes on that. Also, don't ever look down on somebody if they got a smaller house. Or don't. It's not about that. It's about owning affluence. But saying again, because the work. A great lesson came when I won that trophy for Academy Award, Best Actor. Kids go, what's the trophy for? I said, you remember a year and a half ago when papa was working and you got real skinny and you say he looked like a giraffe because his neck was so skinny? He's like, yeah. I go, well, the. Remember, you'd wake up in the morning, I'd already be at work, and I'd be gone all day, and then get back home at night. I go, the work that I was doing each day in that month and a half my peers deemed to be excellent and gave me a trophy for what I did a year and a half ago. They gave me a trophy for it today. So that idea of delayed gratification, I saw a click. Oh, so you can do something now and be rewarded for it tomorrow. I was like bingo. Yes, yes you can. And so they have a lot of affluence. I don't. I still want them to be kind. They got to have their manners. I wanted to be. They're so conscientious. I wanted to be autonomous and self thinkers at the same time. I don't like poorly behaved kids and we don't, we don't allow that. And what you, what do you value? Glad we got the house. But don't think that this is just what you get. Do you understand why we have this nice house? Do you understand that? So we try to remind them, hopefully we're doing a good enough job and anywhere we go in the world to go to different schools or orphanages and trying to help out just to see, hey, this ain't now, everybody's got it. So respect this, do not take this for granted. And again, always going back to it's because of the, the work you do, what kind of work you do. And if you do really good work and you, if you can supply something that's in demand in life and you could supply a good product, whatever that product is, an actual product or yourself, then you can, you can, you can possibly make a living at it. Brilliant.

Damien (45:13)

Look Matthew, we've, we've reached the, the end of our conversation and we always finish with our guests on this podcast with some quick fire questions. Your three non negotiable behaviors that the people around you have to buy into.

Matthew McConaughey (45:28)

Don't lie, don't say hey, don't say can't. Non negotiable.

Jake (45:33)

What advice would you give a teenage Matthew just starting out?

Matthew McConaughey (45:37)

I love that you always thinking about the future, thinking about getting older. But trust it, that's coming anyway. Enjoy being 15. Those pimples will be gone.

Damien (45:52)

Are you happy?

Matthew McConaughey (45:53)

Am I happy? Got a lot of joy. I find joy in doing things that I feel like I'm fashioned to do. Happiness is to me is a bit of one of those result oriented destinations that I think we kind of falsely pursue as a place when joy. Something about joy is more of a verb for me. Joy is more of it like. No, it's, it's the, it's the art of doing what you're fashioned to do in a way that it's got reset reciprocity to it. You can find joy in the doing more so I find more so joy in the doing than I do in the having done.

Jake (46:29)

How important is legacy to you?

Matthew McConaughey (46:32)

It's getting more and more important. They say what's, what kind of shadow do you want to leave? You know, what kind of light do you want to leave? What are those solar powered eternal green lights that we want to leave not only in this life but after we're gone. You know, come on our foundation hope to hand that over to my children and then they run the foundation after we're gone. Trying to build things now and make choices to do things that I go, oh, that's going to live on. That's something you want to pass in. You can keep that garden, can you can continue to tend, you can hand it down to other gardeners, proverbial gardeners of that thing to tend it after you are gone. And they will want to and can't build. Maybe it doesn't fade off after you fade away. Maybe it encompasses more. Maybe its roots go wider and deeper. And so that's, that's some things I consider the choices I make today which are considering legacy and finally your one.

Damien (47:24)

Golden rule to leave our listeners with for living a high performance life.

Matthew McConaughey (47:30)

Well, look, the easiest one is this. Just keep living. Right. The alternative sucks. And I will say on Golden Rules though, it's another one. My mother's big on the golden rule. Do unto others you would have them do unto you found a loophole in that too, Mom. Not everybody wants to do what you want to do.

Damien (47:55)

Listen, thank you so much for your time. Matthew, sitting and talking to you, it strikes me that you are someone who's realized that every single action in your life has a consequence. You talk about leaving crumbs, not leaving crumbs. And I think as soon as we all realize that, instead of thinking of the big thing that's five miles down the road, focus on the tiny thing in front of us because that is the thing that will have a consequence for the next step and the step after that. And it's, it's an absolute pleasure to sit and talk to you step at.

Matthew McConaughey (48:22)

A time at the big picture in mind. Yeah. Enjoy talking to you, man.

Damien (48:30)

Damien.

Jake (48:30)

Jake.

Damien (48:31)

Well, look, we're recording this late in the evening in the uk Matthew is back home in the States. You can feel the energy though transmitting from the United States to the United Kingdom, can't you?

Jake (48:43)

Yeah, definitely. I sometimes call it the Gandhi rule on this because Gandhi said that complete harmony comes from when your words, your thoughts and your actions are all aligned. And he's translated common sense into common practice behaviors. And that's with his thoughts, his words, and just the way he lives his life.

Damien (49:01)

And what I think is brilliant is that there will be people listening to this going, well, of course he's happy and of course he's successful. And of course he's done well because he's Matthew McConaughey. But he's only Matthew McConaughey, the actor who we all know because of those decisions that he's made. Like, he clearly takes absolute responsibility for his parenting, for his career, for his relationship with his wife, for his. For approaching things in the right way. He thinks about everything. There's no element of just floating through, is there?

Jake (49:30)

It's a really good point you make, Jake, that I think we get blinded by the outcomes that he's a, you know, he's an Oscar winning actor. But the process that he put into pursuing the acting career when he chose to move away from a career in the law is the same one that he does now when he decides he's going to take on a film. It's the idea of weighing up, taking time to reflect on whether he's going to be happy, whether he's going to enjoy it, and then committing completely to it was something that he's been doing long before fame, fortune and prestige ever found him.

Damien (50:01)

Well, I really enjoyed it. It was an absolute pleasure to sit and chat to him alongside you, as ever. Thanks again, man.

Jake (50:07)

No, thank you, mate. That was a proper privilege, that one. I've thoroughly enjoyed it.

Damien (50:14)

What a conversation. So I thought about that conversation so much. There are certain things that have not left me, actually. I mean, his advice on finding yourself, that idea of stop trying and just start with the process of elimination instead. Eliminate the relationships that leave you with a hangover. Eliminate the places that drain you, eliminate the habits that don't give you improvements. I think, you know, when you look at a beautiful sculpture, right, that beautiful sculpture is not from someone adding, it's from someone taking away. And actually a process of elimination. Doing it mathematically and methodically in your life and putting what feeds your soul at the center of what you do, I think is so important. But what stuck with me the most, this idea that I have tried to tell everyone I've met since that conversation that we are all chasing, yet, yet I'm going to be happy yet I'm going to be happy yet. And that happiness never arrives. What did Johnny Wilkinson tell us on this podcast he won the Rugby World cup for his country and was happy for 30 seconds. So please accept there is no yet. There is no moment of arrival. There is no there is no tada moment. You are not going to be set free from your life. So therefore, what is High Performance? It's about enjoying the life that you're living at the moment. It's about making sure that every single day you find a bit of purpose, you find a bit of joy, you find a bit of flow, you find a bit of connection. It's those small things that mean you will keep going. If you enjoyed the conversation, please hit subscribe. It makes such a huge difference to us. And if there's someone in your life that you think could benefit from hearing what Matthew had to say, just ping them the episode. It might change everything for them. And we'll see you next time for another episode of High Performance.

Jake (52:04)

Foreign.

Matthew McConaughey (52:09)

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Damien (53:41)

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Matthew McConaughey (54:08)

That's C R E O N info.

Damien (54:09)

Com.

Matthew McConaughey (54:09)

I'm asking my doctor about EPI and if Creon could help.