Stop Caring What Everyone Thinks

Summary

The High Performance Podcast – "Stop Caring What Everyone Thinks"

Hosts: Jake Humphrey & Damian Hughes
Date: November 21, 2025
Theme: Unlocking high performance through understanding and overcoming the toxic impact of caring too much about other people’s opinions.

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles a pervasive modern challenge: letting go of the need for external approval and learning to focus on whose opinions truly matter. Jake and Damian revisit powerful lessons from previous high-achieving guests, including Adam Grant, Fernando Alonso, Mat Fraser, Mark Manson, and Paul McKenna. They explore actionable strategies to help listeners build self-trust, choose whose criticism matters, and find genuine joy in personal growth and atelic (goal-free) pursuits.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Cost of Caring (Too Much) About Others’ Opinions

[01:13–03:45]

• Jake frames the issue: "We're not telling people not to care about anything. But... caring too much about the views and the opinions of other people does us no service at all."
• Damian shares the “18-40-60 Test”:
  • At 18, you're worried what everyone thinks of you.
  • At 40, you no longer care.
  • At 60, you realize nobody was thinking about you at all.
• Social anxiety (“sociophobia”) often blocks us from pursuing what we want.

2. Hardwiring & Filtering Feedback — Lessons from Adam Grant

[05:45–07:21] Adam Grant, Organizational Psychologist

• “Why do I care about the opinions of complete strangers?... Why am I trying to prove myself to people who are not necessarily knowledgeable about the work that I do?”
• Human beings are hardwired to care due to evolutionary reasons (rejection from the tribe = danger). But we can choose whose opinions matter.
• “There’s no reason why you have to let that evolutionary circuitry hijack your rational thought… Who are the people whose assessment… really matter to you?... Seek their feedback first.”

Notable moment:
Jake shares the impact of Adam’s advice on his approach to social media criticism, adopting the mantra:

“Their intention determines my attention.” — Jake Humphrey [08:43]

3. Whose Feedback Counts? (Sue Barker’s Message & Personal Examples)

[08:57–10:56]

• Jake recounts a time when sports broadcaster Sue Barker’s positive feedback cut through the noise of hundreds of negative messages, because she had real knowledge of the field.
• Even high praise can be drowned out by criticism, but understanding who’s “earned the right” to give you feedback is everything.

Memorable Quote:

“It's like somebody shouting in an empty room... I don't have to listen to that.” — Jake Humphrey, on online abuse [11:07]

4. The Importance of Your Inner Circle

[15:37–16:57]

• Damien tells a story of helping a young athlete filter feedback to only those who’ve “earned the right” to critique—parents, coach, best friend, girlfriend.
  • “Anybody else hasn’t earned the right to make that judgment call of you... You can't stop them doing that... but you don't have to listen to them.”

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5. Reframing Achievement & Enjoyment — Insights From Mat Fraser

[17:18–19:03] Mat Fraser, CrossFit World Champion

• On hobbies and learning:

  "You don’t need to be good at your hobbies to enjoy them… I’m a beginner in a lot of things that I do… but I love doing them."

• The expectation to be excellent at everything blocks enjoyment and invites unhelpful outside opinions.

Damien:

• Introduces the concept of “atelic” activities (doing something with no defined outcome or point).
  • Ex: A walk in nature for its own sake—enjoyment without external validation.

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6. Parenting, Praise, and Criticism — Mark Manson’s Wake-Up Call

[21:32–23:34] Mark Manson, Author

• Don’t praise kids for unearned qualities (“You’re special”)—praise effort/actions.

  "Praise the action, not them, not their identity." — Mark Manson [21:49]

• Critical feedback should focus on behaviors, not identity.

Damien’s Coaching Insight:

• Useless feedback attacks character. Effective feedback is actionable and targets specific behaviors.

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7. Dealing with Pressure — Fernando Alonso’s Perspective

[12:17–13:28] Fernando Alonso, Double F1 World Champion

• Shares advice from his father: “Try to enjoy, because maybe it’s your last race... you’ll always be able to say you raced one Formula One Grand Prix.”
• The perspective that every opportunity is a gift reframes pressure and diminishes the fear of judgment.

Jake’s Reflection:

“What a privilege to be tired from the work you once dreamed about… a reminder that everything that we’re doing is a gift, really.” [13:28]

Damien:

"Nobody who's doing better than you ever criticizes you." [14:32]

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8. Making Others Feel Important — Paul McKenna’s reminder

[24:39–25:33] Paul McKenna, Hypnotist & Author

• Recounts the lesson: “Everyone’s got a sign above the head saying make me feel important."
• The real impact is not what we say but how we make people feel.
• Jake challenges listeners: “When did you last make other people feel amazing for no reason other than making them feel amazing?”

Closing Reflection:

“Nothing you do is neutral.” — Eddie Jones, as quoted by Damien [26:12]
“Giving somebody just that pat on the back, that moment of acknowledgment, that word of gratitude, that is a positive act and we can all be better at that.” — Damien [26:20]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jake Humphrey:

  “We suffer more in imagination than reality.” — citing Seneca [03:45]
  “Their intention determines my attention.” [08:43]

• Adam Grant:

  "Seek [the] feedback [of your trusted circle] first." [06:43]

• Mat Fraser:

  “You don’t need to be good at your hobbies to enjoy them.” [17:18]

• Mark Manson:

  “Praise the action, not them, not their identity.” [21:49]

• Fernando Alonso:

  “Try to enjoy, because maybe it’s your last race... That approach is very valuable and helpful when I get the stress.” [12:17]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:51] – The 18-40-60 Test (Damien)
• [05:45–07:21] – Adam Grant on filtering feedback
• [08:43] – “Their intention determines my attention” (Jake)
• [12:17–13:28] – Fernando Alonso on perspective and pressure
• [17:18] – Mat Fraser on doing things for enjoyment
• [19:03] – “Atelic” activities and their value (Damien)
• [21:49] – Mark Manson on feedback and praise
• [24:39–25:33] – Paul McKenna: making others feel important
• [26:12] – "Nothing you do is neutral." (Eddie Jones/Damien)
• [27:15] – Closing reflections and summary advice

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Actionable Takeaways

• Curate Whose Opinions Matter: Build a trusted circle and weigh their feedback more than that of strangers.
• Assess Intention Behind Criticism: Let intention guide the attention you give to others' words.
• Reframe High Performance: Joy, fulfillment, and growth are as important as winning—do things for enjoyment, not validation.
• Praise Actions, Not Identity: Be specific and actionable in feedback, both to yourself and others.
• Do Atelic Things: Embrace joy in activities without a point or purpose.
• Be Conscious of Your Impact: Remember, “nothing you do is neutral.”—build others up intentionally.
• Make Others Feel Important: Small moments of encouragement and kindness can have huge impacts.

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This episode is a practical, encouraging, and wisdom-packed exploration for anyone looking to thrive without being limited by external voices or societal pressure.

Transcript

[Jake Humphrey]

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[Jake Humphrey]

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[Damien]

Yeah, definitely. I remember reading in a book years ago something called the 1840, 60 test. It said, at 18, you don't do anything because you're worried what everyone thinks about you. At 40, you go, you know what? I don't care what anyone thinks about me. I'm going to do it anyway. And then at 60, you get to an age where you go, nobody was actually thinking about me at all. They were thinking about their own story. Now, having just turned 50, I'm sort of looking forward to getting to that place of thinking, of realizing that nobody's thinking about you anyway. But you're right. I think so often we hear the idea of sociophobia, the fear of being ridiculed by other people inhibits us, stops us, or prevents us from going after what we really want. And I think, let's go and delve into the archive of some of our incredible guests. Work out how do we work out how to stop caring about what some people think, but actually switch onto what do important people think?

[Jake Humphrey]

And please don't think that. As I say, I think this is a modern disease. It has been around forever. It was Seneca that said, we suffer more in imagination than reality. And Lao Tzu said, if you care about what other people think, you will always be their prisoner. And I think that's one of the important things to point out here is I don't believe we see the true cost of caring what other people think, because it's so normalized and it's so common that we just end up living a life kind of within ourselves. You know the study where they sent people into classrooms and they said to a bunch of three year olds, if you can sing, put your hands up. And how many hands were raised in the air? Every kid, 10 years later, they're all teenagers. Someone walks in the same room and says, put your hands in the air if you can sing. And out of a class of 30 kids, a few hands go in the air.

[Damien]

There's sociophobia in action for you.

[Jake Humphrey]

They've Added on the words, well, so that person says, put your hand in the air if you can sing. And we assume, well, well, hey, we can all sing, right? But we assume unless we do it to a decent standard, it's not worthy, there's no value to it. And I think this gets worse because social media now is full of people constantly sharing their perfection. And we're comparing our reality to their highlight reels. So, um, let's dive straight into a clip from a previous guest on High Performance, and we've got some good ones coming up for you, actually, including a Formula One world champion, one of the greatest ever CrossFit competitors, one of the world's most popular authors, and we're gonna be Hypnotized by Paul McKenna at the end of the episode. But we want to start with someone who you are a huge fan of, right?

[Damien]

Yeah, I love Adam Grant's work. In fact, Gareth Southgate, interestingly in his new book, quotes Adam Grant from his Think Again. He's an organizational psychologist from Walton University who we were lucky enough to sit down and talk to. And there's a moment in the interview where we went a little bit off script where you were speaking to him about a difficult time in your life where you were copying some abuse on social media and he sort of helped you navigate through it. Let's listen to it and then I'll be interested in your reflections of it today.

[Adam Grant]

So I find myself thinking a lot. Why do I care about the opinions of complete strangers? Why. Why am I trying to prove myself to people who are not necessarily knowledgeable about the work that I do?

[Jake Humphrey]

Are we not just hardwired to care?

[Adam Grant]

You could tell a very convincing evolutionary story about how social exclusion was a threat to survival. And we evolved what psychologists call a sociometer, which is kind of a self esteem monitor for what our image is and whether other people accept us and value us or whether they're going to expel us from the tribe? And if you didn't pay attention to that, you probably died and failed pass on your genes. Right? So, sure, yeah, I think we're wired to care, but there's no reason why we have to care equally about everyone, right? There's a, there's a. No, there's no reason why you have to let that, that evolutionary circuitry, you know, sort of hijack your rational thought. And so I think going in, I think every time you're, you're calling a game, right, the first thing I would want to know is who are the people whose assessment of, you know, of your skill really matter to you. And I would go to those people first. Right. Before you look at what the random audience has to say, knowing that they're always going to be critics and they're always going to be angry fans or rivals. Right. I'd want to know, well, whose judgment do you really trust and value? And can you seek their feedback first? And once you do that, you're probably going to feel a little bit more secure. You're going to know what kind of criticism is valid and what is probably a little bit. A little bit less credible. And then maybe you can filter a little bit better.

[Jake Humphrey]

It's very interesting hearing that back, actually. I'm trying to remember. Do you know, Will, when we actually recorded that episode? Because it was over. I remember it was over. Zoom.

[Damien]

Yeah.

[Fernando Alonso]

Yeah.

[Jake Humphrey]

I don't know whether that was because it was Covid or just because we couldn't get together.

[Damien]

You were in your last year at tnt.

[Paul McKenna]

Yeah.

[Jake Humphrey]

You were, yeah. Was that or BT as it was then, We've got Will, the producer with us in the studio helping us put these shows together. Go on then, son. It went on 12 December 2022. December 2022. So three years ago, we had a conversation with Adam Grant, and I definitely was struggling at that time, so. And for him to kind of make me realize that you should care what people think. You should take criticism. Feedback is a gift. You should accept other people giving you knowledge and thought, but you also have to really think carefully about what's the intention behind it, or what does that. How much does that person know about the things that you're going through to be able to give you a valid feedback and criticism? So all those people going like, Jake Humphrey's a bell end or he's a smug twat or whatever it was that they were saying, they definitely hurt at the time. But now I'm after that conversation with Adam, I absolutely was able to look at it and say, well, they're obviously not saying that for any reason other than to be plain horrible or nasty or bullying. Therefore, their intention tells me all I need to know about how much attention I need to pay to those things.

[Damien]

And I love it.

[Jake Humphrey]

And I remember I used to say to myself, their intention determines my attention. And that was a phrase that helped me in that period.

[Damien]

So what's that lovely story you told about a message you received from somebody that did actually matter?

[Jake Humphrey]

Oh, yeah.

[Damien]

Well, we.

[Jake Humphrey]

Do you remember, we actually spoke about this in the episode with Adam Grant? And by the way, if you want to Listen to the full conversation. You can find a link to Adam and all the other guests we mention in the notes to this show. Yeah, I got a letter from Sue Barker. And for those that don't know Sue Barker, like the legendist, legend of sports broadcasters, hosted Wimbledon for years, hosted Sports Personality of the Year with me for a long time. And I just got. It was an email, actually, an email out the blue from her saying, I just think you're doing an amazing job. You've now arrived at the level of Gary Lineker as a sports broadcaster. And that was actually at a time where she didn't know. Every time I went on the telly, I felt like I was getting, like, dog's abuse. And that made all the difference because, of course, she is someone that knows. She's someone that's walked in those shoes. She's someone that's put the earpiece on. She's someone that's rode the gauntlet of live television. And it was impactful. But it's still hard, though, because you get one message like that and you know it's true. But when you get hundreds of messages, even if you don't believe they're true, they definitely get through the armor at some point. And that is something I don't miss about doing that job was the sort of like the unwarranted, unnecessary, not very helpful criticism. But I now see people that are doing the job I used to do, getting it, and I feel for them, you know?

[Damien]

Yeah, yeah. I remember once there was a game where Arsenal played Brighton and it was in lockdown and I think the Arsenal goalkeeper got stretched off and you'd had to comment on it, on your job. And I remember you showing me just the vileness of the abuse that came because you'd made a comment about it. And I remember asking you, saying, how do you deal with that? Cause to me it was frightening. And I remember you saying, it's like somebody shouting in an empty room. These are people that I've got nobody else around them that wants to listen to their opinion, so they're just shouting in an empty room and I don't have to listen to that. But I love your idea of their intention determines your retention. I think that's a lesson that any of us can apply when we think.

[Jake Humphrey]

About not what are they saying to me, but why are they saying it?

[Damien]

Why are they saying it? What's your agenda?

[Jake Humphrey]

You're trying to make me upset or just be horrible. And actually, sometimes what I would notice is you'd go on their social handle. And you'd just see they're angry about everything.

[Damien]

Yeah.

[Jake Humphrey]

And that in some ways is just really sad. Right. They're just angry about the rest of the world. But that was really helpful for me and I hope for the people listening to this, I hope they don't have that level of sort of criticism or scrutiny. But I certainly think that those thoughts that Adam shared with us, I think are valuable for anyone and I hope they're helpful for people that are listening to this. But I think I'd like to take us on to Fernando Alonso, the Double Formula one World Champion, who we've also had on high performance. Do you remember we said to him, what are you thinking when the lights go out at the start of a Grand Prix? And he goes, robot. I was like, that is one of the greatest answers of what high performance.

[Damien]

I'll tell you why I love that though, because do you remember when we found out afterwards that he told his mate before he came in the room that he was going to give us just one word answers and see how long the interview could last for? So his robot answer was his attempt.

[Jake Humphrey]

Of, if you listen to the full episode, at times he does give us two word answers as well, which was a highlight for us. But anyway, here's Fernando Alonso talking to us about how he deals with stress and pressure in one of the most high profile jobs that you can imagine in the world of sport.

[Fernando Alonso]

And I remember the first ever race in Formula One, my debut in 2001 with Minardi, that I called my father on Sunday morning of the race and I said, okay, it's two hours to the race, so yeah, let's see how it goes. We start with the soft tires and then we will stop in lap 15 for the refueling. Because back then it was the refueling in Formula one. And he said, okay, I don't care. Whatever the strategies and the team thinks is the best, for sure is the best. Try to enjoy, because maybe it's your last race. I said, what do you mean? And he said, we never know. This is your first race. Maybe you are not delivering or you are not quick enough, or the team is not happy with you at the end of the race or whatever. And then you will always be able to say that you race one Formula one Grand Prix, you know, you are a Grand Prix driver. And so that, that the kind of approach that my family has that sometimes for me is very valuable and very helpful when I get the stress. And for them everything is just a gift. It's just an extra do you know.

[Jake Humphrey]

What I love about that quote from Fernando Alonso there is that it just. It makes it clear to him from someone outside his own brain, that this is what you always wanted. And something I put on social media the other day, and it's this, Damien. And I think it talks at the same point. What a privilege to be tired from the work you once dreamed about. What a privilege to feel overwhelmed by the growth that you used to dream about. What a privilege to be challenged by life that you created on purpose. What a privilege to outgrow the things that you used to settle for. It's a reminder that everything that we're doing is a gift, really. So much of the things that people are struggling with right now or that is bringing them criticism, or where they're worrying about other people's opinion of themselves is because they've got themselves to a point where they're doing stuff that matters. You know, you don't worry about what people think of you if you're doing things that aren't important or don't matter to you. Right. So, therefore, if you're regularly feeling this way, maybe in some ways that's great, because you've managed to engineer a life where the things that you're doing impact others and matter to you.

[Damien]

I've heard it said before that nobody who's doing better than you ever criticizes you.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Damien]

Do you know what I mean? Like, because if somebody's gone down that path and they know how hard it is, they're not the ones slagging you off or suggesting that you're a chancer or that you're a waste of space. It's only people that want to be where you are or looking at what you're doing and don't appreciate it are the ones that are throwing the sticks and stones at you. So what I love about that, though, is that there's also something there for Fernando Alonso, of his mum and dad love him anyway. He didn't need to be in Formula one to be loved by his mum and dad. You know, they were the ones that put him in that car. Do you remember when we saw the thing at three years old and he was driving around racing? They were the people that loved him, regardless of whether he was a Formula one driver or not, or whether he became a World champion or not. And I think there's a reminder there sometimes that you won't be criticized by people that see you for who you are. It's only people that will make judgments of you that don't know you or are jealous, or there's some kind of.

[Jake Humphrey]

So are we saying to people listening to this, have your team, have your crew, have your circle, have your group where the feedback does matter, where if they said, you know what? I think that's good enough, you take it on the chin and you understand it and you realise that feedback's a gift. But at the same time as having that group, also know that because you've got that group, it actually gives you the right not to concern yourself with what other people are saying and thinking.

[Damien]

100%. I remember doing some work years ago with a rugby league player. He was only a young lad and he was copying some terrible abuse and I was trying to think of how I could help him. So I asked him to write down a list for me of the five people who, if they told him that he was genuinely useless, it would make him sit up, pay attention and listen to them. And on his list he had his parents, he had his girlfriend, he had his coach and he had his best friend or something like that. They were the five. And I said, have they ever told you that you're useless? And his answer was, no, they haven't, because they understand how hard I work, the effort I make, the sacrifices that go into it. And that almost became his curated list of going. So they're the ones that you do need to be checking your phone for after a game, they're the ones you do need to be checking in and speaking to. Anybody else hasn't earned the right to make that judgment call of you. They're entitled to their opinion. You can't stop them doing that. You can't shut them up, but you don't have to listen to them.

[Jake Humphrey]

I think it's so interesting. Damien, I'm going to take us to Mat Fraser now, who is the CrossFit world champion, one of the greatest CrossFit coaches as well.

[Damien]

Now, Silverback, that's his nickname.

[Jake Humphrey]

And what I like about this is that he's famous us for being the very best in the world, right? But you don't have to be the best in the world to do something. Have a listen to what he told us.

[Mat Fraser]

Well, I actually saw. I saw one thing yesterday and it was kind of like a comedy, like video on Instagram, but it was like a PSA and it was like, hey, guys, like, just for the, for whoever needs to hear it. You don't need to be good at your hobbies to enjoy them. And. And for myself, I was like, oh, you know, that's good to hear. Every Once in a while. Because, like, you know, I'm, I'm a beginner in a lot of things that I do. You know, whether it's, you know, dirt biking, shooting, guns, jiu jitsu, it's like, well, no, I'm just, I, I, I'm at the very start line. You know, I've done a couple lessons, I'm absolute at all these things, but I love doing them. And, and it's like, well, yeah, you're never, you're not going to pick something up and just immediately be the best in the world at it. It's like, no, it requires a lot of fucking hard work. And I think looking at change, it's, it can be tough to, to have this perspective without having the experience.

[Jake Humphrey]

Now, I think this is a really important point to make, right? Is that there are things in our life that we should do just because we enjoy them. And in his case, it was, as we just heard, jiu jitsu and dirt biking. But why, why have we added this idea that we can only do things if we're good at them? And actually, the reason why this is important and it's relevant to this conversation is if you are someone that struggles with other people's opinions of yourself, then doing things where you're doing it purely for the love of it, not for the success of it, it insulates you from criticism because as soon as you're not doing it for validation or for success or to hit a certain metric, well, it doesn't matter what people think because you're like, well, I'm just doing it for fun. And actually almost, well, it makes their thoughts and their opinions of what you're doing utterly irrelevant because it's just for fun.

[Damien]

I'll tell you my word of the year that I adopted from the interview we did with the Billion author Oliver Berkman was atelic because I'd never heard it before till I read his book. And italic is doing something that doesn't have a point to it.

[Jake Humphrey]

Yeah.

[Damien]

So he uses the example in his book Meditation for Mortals of just going for a walk. Like you park your car up and you go for a walk and you end up back at the car. That is literally a pointless activity. But he went, but it's not pointless because it's the getting out in nature. It's the idea of gentle exercises. You might do it in somebody's company that you want, but you're not doing it for any reason other than just the pleasure of going for that walk. And I think the more atelic activities we can add into our life means it takes away the expectation of you've got to be good at something just to be able to enjoy it.

[Jake Humphrey]

Yeah. And also, what is it? What life do we live if we fill it the majority of our life with the stuff that we don't enjoy?

[Damien]

Yeah.

[Jake Humphrey]

Because what do we talk about? Actually, sometimes on this show, high performance is about winning. Right. So who's the high performer? The person that is winning and getting the gold medals and successful and very rich and lauded, but who hates the thing that they're doing that's got them that? Or is it the person that is actually pretty crap at most things, but spends their day doing the things that they love? Who's the. Who's the high performer?

[Damien]

Yeah, yeah, I got. Well, you know what, I saw a graph this week from an educational advisor, a guy called Ian Gilbert that puts out some really interesting posts and he had a graph of children's enjoyment at school. And at year three, the enjoyment is off the charts. So when you six or seven years of age, you love school and it reaches in a day when you get to year eight and nine, that's when the pressure starts to kick in the pupils. That's all about exams. You're doing subjects that you just patently don't enjoy or that are just not for you. The enjoyment of pupils hits rock bottom. It increases slightly as you get towards the end of the journey. But again, it makes me think about this idea that sometimes we do have to do topics. I'm not suggesting that all of school activities aren't without value, but I think this idea of sometimes just doing things for the enjoyment of them rather than to get better or to improve it can be incredibly valuable. For sure.

[Jake Humphrey]

Shall we hear from another guest?

[Damien]

You know who I'd like to include here?

[Jake Humphrey]

Yeah, go on then.

[Damien]

Mark Manson.

[Jake Humphrey]

Why?

[Damien]

I loved his book of the Subtle Art of Not Giving a. Yeah, but there's a lovely line that sort of dissuades us all of thinking that we're special and therefore we've got something to protect. Let's listen to him explain.

[Adam Grant]

Like, growing up, I was told I was special and unique and extraordinary and blah, blah, blah, and I hadn't done a fucking thing. There is some research I have seen on this and I believe what it says is that generally speaking, you want to compliment your kids for effort, not for necessarily like, who they are like. So you don't want to. You don't want to tell them, like, oh, you're so smart, you're so talented. You're so brilliant. Before they've done anything, you want them to do something and then say, you were so brilliant at that. You were so talented at that. It's almost like you praise the action, not the. Not them, not their identity.

[Jake Humphrey]

It's a very interesting thought process that, isn't it? Because we're both parents, right? What's the one thing we say to our kids all the time? You're special. You're gonna do great things. You're a miracle. You're unique. Amazing things are around the corner for you. What a great way to set people up for a life of struggle. If you tell them life's gonna be amazing, and then it just so happens to be like most people's lives, which is a relatively normal. It's a good way to insulate ourselves, that isn't it?

[Damien]

Yeah, I think it's brilliant. Again, it goes back to this idea of don't keep raising the bar. Just lower it. You know what I mean? Just give ourselves the permission to fail to make mistakes and to be human.

[Jake Humphrey]

And he talks as well about the difference between kind of personal criticism and criticism related to the physical movements or the things that we're doing. And I think that's also really important. If people are giving you feedback based on your actions, based on your effort, then I do think there's more in that. Do you know what I mean? I think once it's criticism or feedback or even praise for the action, then it should be listened to more than praise, criticism, or feedback for the person.

[Damien]

Well, definitely. I mean, this is something that. When I work with sports teams, I often say this to coaches of, like, how often do we train ourselves in giving feedback to somebody? Because sometimes when you go and work with athletes and you'll say, what feedback would you want to pass on to them? And they'll say, stop being a dickhead. You go, nah, that's useless feedback because you're attacking the person. What is it that makes you think they're a dickhead? And it might be they always turn up late or they're always complaining and grumbling, right? Give them feedback on that aspect of their behavior, not on their personality, because they can do something about it. And I think you're right. It's a really important distinction that Mark makes, that if you're gonna listen to feedback and care about other people's opinions, listen to it when it's based on behaviors that you can alter and adapt, not when it's about you as a person.

[Jake Humphrey]

Very powerful. Final clip.

[Damien]

I Want to play? You do this one.

[Jake Humphrey]

I'm not going to play the bit where Paul McKenna tried to hypnotize me to no longer eat crisps because it didn't work. But I do want to play this clip from hypnotist Paul McKenna. Have a listen.

[Paul McKenna]

Simon's a fantastic person. He's incredibly kind and generous. He's very candid, you know, which of.

[Damien]

The circles is he in in your life?

[Paul McKenna]

Oh, Simon's a real friend. Simon's been there for me whenever I've needed him. He's. And he said my, my father said that Simon's father Eric had said everyone's got a sign above the head saying make me feel important. And you know one of the best selling self help books of all time is how to Win Friends and Influence People. One of the sort of simple principles is actually listen and connect with somebody rather than sort of tell them how great you are, you know, connect, listen, etc. And, and I thought that was just a beautiful metaphor. Make me feel important because it's a nice thing if you other people's energy up, they like you. They might not remember what you said to them but they'll pretty much remember how you made them feel.

[Jake Humphrey]

So the reason why I wanted to play that is it's Paul reminding us about the fact that all actions have a consequence, right? So we've kind of framed this conversation today around us dealing with other people's opinions of ourselves. But if you're listening to this now, how are you making other people feel? And you might be thinking, well this doesn't apply to me because I'm not critical of others, that's fine, but not being critical of them, is that enough? Should you be praiseworthy? Should you be full of love? Should you make them feel amazing? And I think I'd like to finish this conversation just by challenging people to consider when did they last make other people feel amazing for no reason other than making them feel amazing?

[Damien]

I'm going to finish by quoting Eddie Jones when he said to us, mate, nothing you do is neutral.

[Jake Humphrey]

There you go.

[Damien]

Nothing is neutral. You don't ignore somebody. That's not a neutral act. That's an act that erodes somebody's self confidence. Giving somebody just that pat on the back, that moment of acknowledgment, that word of gratitude, that is a positive act and we can all be better at that.

[Jake Humphrey]

And I get frustrated with, and I've said this for a few people, they go, well would they deserve it? Do they deserve that praise? You know I don't want to give praise unless they deserve it. It's very important. And I'm thinking, well, what does it cost you? What does it actually cost you to just for no reason other than the reason just to go, hey, you're bloody brilliant, by the way, or I love working with you, or every time I see you, you make me feel great. Right. I'm not saying lie, but what I am saying is it costs nothing to do that. So why do we have to set such a high threshold before we possibly praise other people? Let's have a much lower threshold. Like someone getting out of bed and getting into work and spending a day with you should be enough for you to go, hey, I really appreciate you. I love hanging out with you. So I love hanging out with you.

[Damien]

And I love hanging out with you as well, Jake. And I love these conversations.

[Jake Humphrey]

I do, they're very. I find them helpful, don't you?

[Damien]

Yeah, massively. Just to go back and sort of process the learnings are invaluable for us and hopefully they're valuable for anybody that's kind enough to tune in and listen.

[Jake Humphrey]

I hope so. And if you want to hear the full conversation with Paul or Mark, Matt, Fernando or indeed Adam, then all you have to do is click the link in the description to this podcast and all of the show notes are in there. You can get all the details. And please, wherever you're listening to this conversation, just hit follow or subscribe on the app. It makes such a massive difference to our show. So there you go, the final things for you to think about. Make sure you're selective about who you listen to. Adopt the gift mindset. Remember that everything is a bonus. Do things because you enjoy them, not because you necessarily have to be great at them. Remember, action is what needs to be praised, criticised or looked at, not identity. And finally, are you doing enough to make others feel important? Because that comes for free and people will only give their best when they feel safe. So make people feel safe. Thanks a lot, Damo.

[Damien]

Thanks, mate.

[Jake Humphrey]

And thanks to you for listening. See you again soon for another episode of High Performance.

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