The SAS Mindset: Keep Going When Everyone Else Stops | Billy Billingham

Summary

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The High Performance Podcast

Episode Title: The SAS Mindset: Keep Going When Everyone Else Stops | Billy Billingham
Release Date: November 12, 2025
Hosts: Jake Humphrey & Damian Hughes
Guest: Billy Billingham, SAS Veteran & Chief Instructor, TV’s "SAS: Who Dares Wins"

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Episode Overview

This powerful conversation dives into the mindset, habits, and life philosophies that propelled Billy Billingham from the violent streets of his youth to becoming a decorated SAS Sergeant Major, elite bodyguard, and popular TV instructor. Using hard-won experience, Billy shares brutally honest insights into resilience, leadership, handling failure, and—above all—the “go further” mentality that underpins high performance in any walk of life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Turning Point: Escaping a Life of Violence

[03:39 – 04:56]

• Formative Experience: Billy recounts the moment when a near-fatal stabbing made him reconsider the trajectory of his life.
  • Quote: "I looked to my right and Francis had been slashed across the face with a Stanley knife...and I think that moment, I've stood there with him going, what the f*** am I doing?... If I live and get through this, I've got to get out of it." (Billy Billingham, 03:43)
• Personal Accountability: He stresses owning his choices, not blaming peers or circumstances.

2. Surviving Brutal Military Training — The Power of Not Quitting

[05:00 – 06:59]

• Shares the story of grueling induction training in the Parachute Regiment, especially the infamous "log race."
  • Quote: "...my arms like Stretch Armstrong...I couldn't even stand up...but at least I got to the end." (Billy Billingham, 06:36)
• Key Habit: Compartmentalize noise and inner doubt; focus only on the present and keep moving until physically forced to stop.

3. Resilience: Accepting Discomfort and Pushing Limits

[06:59 – 08:33]

• Billy’s mantra is continual self-challenge and embracing pain as temporary.
  • Quote: "It’s going to hurt, but it’s going to end. While I can do it, I'm gonna do it...at the sacrifice of it's gonna hurt." (Billy Billingham, 08:12)
• He discusses an internal voice pushing him to go “one more mile,” illustrating the mindset of always demanding more from oneself.

4. Calm in Chaos: Controlling Emotions Under Pressure

[08:33 – 11:47]

• Lessons from boxing taught him that remaining calm trumps aggression, both in the ring and in life.
  • Quote: "The guy who can stay calm, can read the situation smarter...will always create the winner." (Billy Billingham, 08:54)
• Calmness, he says, is contagious and can unnerve adversaries or reassure a team.
• Practical tip: Control breathing to master adrenaline and fear.

5. Leadership as Service, Not Status

[11:47 – 14:24]

• Great leaders are often the quietest, those who empower others rather than control.
  • Quote: "To be a leader you have to have a team. Otherwise, who are you f***ing leading?" (Billy Billingham, 12:08)
• Emphasizes allowing teammates to manage responsibilities and stepping in only when needed.

6. Humility, Honesty, and Burying the Ego

[14:24 – 17:03]

• Advises listeners to be honest with themselves about what they know/don’t know, and to seek help without fear.
  • Quote: "No one is good at everything. So...be honest to yourself." (Billy Billingham, 14:47)
• Urges embracing failure as the root of resilience: "You don't have resilience unless you failed. That's what builds resilience." (Billy Billingham, 16:26)

7. Learning from Mistakes & Trust

[17:51 – 22:08]

• Biggest mistake: Trusting and gravitating to boastful people early in his career rather than quiet, authentic leaders.
• On trust: "Trust is if you're telling me you're going to do something, you're going to do it and you're going to do it to the best of your ability." (Billy Billingham, 19:42)
• In the SAS, mutual trust is non-negotiable, built through dangerous, realistic training scenarios.

8. The "Further" Philosophy: Always Go Beyond

[22:08 – 25:26]

• Drawing on advice from his boxing coach and SAS experience, Billy champions the idea of always finding just a little bit more in reserve.
  • Quote: "Further comes from go more, advance...there will be somebody better. And something will...and at that point is when you really need to step up again and learn another lesson." (Billy Billingham, 22:16)
• Compares this to the science of the "central governor"—the mind giving up before the body does.

9. Balancing Edge with Family Life

[26:47 – 28:23]

• Billy is candid about his absence as a father and how he now instills values in his grandkids by exposing them to discomfort and challenge (without crossing into harm), prioritizing character over comfort.

10. One Habit for Life: Discipline Above All

[27:48 – 28:56]

• If he could pass on a single habit, it’s discipline—to do things fully, without excuses, and to keep trying even in failure.
  • Quote: "Have the discipline to say you're gonna do it and do it. Don't just talk about it, do it." (Billy Billingham, 28:23)

11. Final Reflections on Hard Work and Grit

[28:56 – 30:27]

• Acknowledges that effort and repetition have always typified his way: "I am monkey see, monkey do. I am hands on crawl. I do the hard way." (Billy Billingham, 29:09)
• Tension between doing things the "smart" way vs. the "hard" way—he admits both have value but grit has always been his core.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Turning Point: "I was part of the wrong gang...if I live and get through this, I've got to get out of it." (Billy Billingham, 04:24)
• On Not Quitting: "I don't care how hard this is going to be, I ain't going to stop. I will stop when I collapse or they pull me off." (Billy Billingham, 06:59)
• On Discipline: "Have the discipline to say you're gonna do it and do it. Don't just talk about it, do it. And don't be afraid to try it. Don't be afraid if you fail. Be afraid of not giving 100%." (Billy Billingham, 28:23)
• On Leadership: "A team is made up of all leaders...when things start to go pear shape, that's when you become a real leader." (Billy Billingham, 13:05)
• On Resilience: "You don't have resilience unless you failed. That's what builds resilience." (Billy Billingham, 16:26)
• Contagious Calm: "Stay calm, be confident...people like...and I'll do the same. If I'm gonna fight somebody, I expect you to start rocking." (Billy Billingham, 09:25)
• On Trust in the SAS: "Everything we do is trust. Because in that world, in the regiment, if you get it wrong, somebody’s going to pay for it, sadly." (Billy Billingham, 21:08)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:39] – The stabbing incident and personal accountability
• [05:00] – Parachute Regiment "log race" and endurance
• [06:59] – Handling internal and external noise during adversity
• [08:33] – Calm in chaos and lessons from boxing
• [11:47] – Leadership: from ego to empowerment
• [14:38] – The ego, humility, and honesty in leadership
• [16:26] – Failure as necessary for resilience
• [19:42] – Definition and importance of trust
• [22:08] – The “Further” philosophy and stretching limits
• [25:26] – The mind’s limits vs. physical ability (Tim Noakes reference)
• [27:48] – One key habit: discipline (for his grandchildren)
• [29:09] – Grit vs. intellect in problem-solving

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Tone & Style

• Direct, Unflinching, Raw: Billy swears easily, speaks in practical terms, and evokes vivid images and anecdotes.
• Empowering: Despite tough love, the intent is always to help listeners realize their potential by embracing discomfort, humility, and resilience.
• Relatable: From SAS battlefields to family life, lessons are reframed for “ordinary” listeners.

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Summary Takeaway

This is a no-nonsense masterclass in practical resilience and leadership. Billy Billingham dismantles myths of toughness—showing it’s built not by bravado, but by discipline, humility, honesty, and continual self-challenge. Every listener, regardless of their path, can use his lessons: take full ownership of your choices, stay calm amid chaos, trust your team, expect and embrace failure, and—above all—always have the discipline to go “a little bit further.”

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Transcript

[Billy Billingham]

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[Podcast Host - Damian Hughes]

Welcome to the Essential Habits of High Performance where we explore the mindsets and daily practices that help us lead better lives. Today we're joined by Billy Billingham. Billy is one of the most decorated and respected soldiers in the British military. His journey began with a life changing turning point when a moment of violence pushed him away from gang warfare and towards a career of discipline and service. After a career in the Parachute regiment, he spent 20 years in the SAS, achieving the rank of Sergeant Major and serving as a personal bodyguard to Hollywood superstars. He is now a chief instructor on the TV show sas. Who dares wins? What's most powerful about Billy's career isn't just the combat or the medals, but the small daily habits that allowed him to remain calm under pressure, focused when he needed to be, and decisive in the world's most extreme environment. As you'll hear, these aren't just lessons for elite military personnel, they are profound strategies you can apply to your own life, such as learning how to be calm in chaos, seeing leadership as a service to a team, and always going a little bit further by choosing discomfort. I really enjoyed this chat with Billy. It was honest and whilst it was a little bit profane at times, some of his wisdom was in incredibly profound. And it's a real privilege to welcome the brilliant Billy Billingham into the studio now. Please note that this episode does contain strong language throughout and some candid discussions of violence and extreme experiences which may be challenging for some listeners.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

What we want to do is, on this series, really, we talk around, sort of look at habits that our listeners can take away and go do it. So there's a few from your book that I wanted to talk about.

[Billy Billingham]

Let's go for it.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

I mean, that story you told in the book, when you got stabbed, it was crazy.

[Billy Billingham]

I'd had a situation just. Which I don't talk about. I don't know if I've ever mentioned it, actually. And it was at this Scar festival Stroke Disco. And we're in there and we're kind of in our little groups doing the Scar music, dancing around. There's a guy stood next to me, Francis. And the next thing I was, like, covered in what felt like warm coffee. What the. And I looked to my right and Francis had been slashed across the face with a Stanley knife or a cutthroat, and I was covered in all his blood. And I think that moment, I've stood there with him going, what the am I doing? So I had that moment then of, I need to get away from this.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

When you're 15 and you wake up.

[Billy Billingham]

And decide, yeah, yeah, I'm looking at my mom and my dad and my family thinking, what the am I doing? I've got to get out of here. I knew that anyway. And what I always say is, that wasn't anybody else's fault, that was mine. I knew what I was doing. I was getting into trouble. I was the problem. Not like my mum would say, you got in with the wrong gang. I did, but I was part of the wrong gang. I was doing the bad things as well. So, you know, it was that moment I knew, if I live and get through this, I've got to get out of it.

[Podcast Host - Damian Hughes]

Well, that's a really good example of.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

Like a turning point acrossroads moment for you.

[Billy Billingham]

So then 17, that's when I went and joined the Parachute Regiment.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

So you go down to all the shows. Do the what Sounds in your book like a pretty brutal induction training. There's a story you tell about carrying the log.

[Billy Billingham]

Oh, mate. So getting down there, you know, I was the one of the youngest, if not the youngest, definitely the skinniest and the mouthiest. But then I realized I'm around real many and this is hard. This is going to be horrendous. And then take. I literally took it day by day, and in the back of my head was what I believed to be my dad telling me I won't make it. And that fucking kept me going when I really felt down and he wasn't. I don't know why he did it. You know, he wasn't nasty about it. But anyway, so. And then we get to a thing called P Company. P Company is made up of 10 physical events over three days. And the hardest thing on there is the log race. And it used to be if you fell off the log, fail the log race, you failed. Doesn't matter how you've done in everything else, that's how it used to be. It may well still be the same. And then we got on the log. On this day, it's only two miles, and I've got the two big Scottish guys on the back, arms like my waist, and then on the front, me and another skinny kid and skinnyish kid. And off we get and it's brutal. You've got staff screaming at you like we do on the tape, screaming in your ear, you gotta go, you gotta win. And it's up over the sand dunes, up the hill, down. It's a brutal old course and it's horrendous. Midway through it, three of them have already gone. And I'm on the front and my arms like Stretch Armstrong. The brutes at the back are driving the engine and I'm trying to keep the engine off the floor or the bumper, the nose off the floor. Honestly, God, I think. I don't even know how I finished. I couldn't even stand up. I couldn't speak. At the end of it, I'm throwing up. I was absolutely done. But at least I got to the end. I think I got to the end because they must have dragged me over or pushed me that far forward. And it was horrific. I could still feel it now how difficult that was.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

The bit I was interested in is, what's the habit that you've got instructors screaming abuse at you. You've got this inner narrative in your head of your dad saying to you, yeah, you'll never get through this. How do you silence all of that noise? So you just actually just.

[Billy Billingham]

I've become. I think I missed a picture of pretty early. Compartmentalize everything and put yourself in where you are now. And I. And saying to himself, why am I here? Because I want to be here. I need to be here. So my mindset is, I don't care how hard this is going to be, I ain't going to stop. I will stop when I collapse or they pull me off, I physically, mentally will not say those words. No, I'm not gonna do it. I knew it was gonna be hard, and it was hard. And I just thought, I'll keep going, going until I can't go anymore. And I've always had that. That drive and that mentality. And even today, I still have it. The thing is, with me, I do this thing, I go right what I want to achieve. I know it's going to be hard. I'm accepting it. It's going to be uncomfortable. But I always say to myself, it's going to be worth it. So I'm gonna do it. I'll get up and run every day. I haven't ran this morning. That's a lie. Most days I'll get up in a run and I'll say to myself, I'm gonna go five miles. And the stupid voice I make, once I get to four miles, it goes, go six. And I'm arguing. I'm not actually arguing inside my own head. Go six. Because I can and I do it. I know it hurts, but I accept it's gonna hurt. But I know I can do it. Now, as I'm a bit older, you subconsciously, it was probably already in my head. I always say to myself, it's a passage in time. It's gonna hurt, but it's gonna end. It's gonna finish. And now I also say, added to that is, I don't know how much time I'll be able to do this because I'm getting older. My legs are. My knees are falling apart, my back's falling apart, my shoulders dislocated. So what? It hurts. But there will come a time I won't. So while I can do it, I'm gonna do it at the. At the sacrifice of it's gonna hurt, and the recovery is going to be slower, but I can do it. I'll still do it.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

Now, you've spoken about the importance of being calm within chaos in a situation where fear or anger can be fatal. I'm interested in how you've learned to master those quite intense emotions and use them as a fuel.

[Billy Billingham]

I think it starts very early from boxing. Being taught boxing and being shown by a real good bunch of people that taught me boxing was if you watch somebody get into a fight and gets aggressive, starts to get aggressive, the one who gets loses control and gets more aggressive, ends up swinging and going. The guy who can stay calm, can read the situation smarter, take a breath, step back and use straightforward punches where the guy's trying to windmill. And that calm motion and taking a breath and thinking and looking and doing the right thing, if you like, will always create the winner.

[Podcast Host - Damian Hughes]

And you've spoken as well about how.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

Calmness can be contagious.

[Billy Billingham]

Think about yourself. If you're getting all wound up to fight and the guy's just there, they can't calm. It fucks you. You're looking and going, what has he got that I haven't got? Why ain't he getting wound up? I'll give a wild example of that one, right? I had a bodyguard in old Colgan for 12 nights down in London years ago. So I turn up to meet old Hogan. He's fucking three times bigger than me, and I'll never forget I met him backstage. And I'm looking at him and he's looking at me, and he's. He's gone. You're security. I went, yeah, I am. I'm playing it dead cool. I'm kind of admiring the size of this dude, but I'm thinking, how the do I protect him? And he's looking at me and he's going. And I can see I'm kind of calm as, but small. He's looking at me and he's thinking, this blog is either hard as or a lunatic. And on the basis that me playing it cool and being calm, he was like, I ain't gonna risk it, so stay calm, be confident. And people like. And I'll do the same. If I'm gonna fight somebody, I expect you to start rocking. You're rocking. Okay, we're gonna go for it.

[Podcast Host - Damian Hughes]

But that idea of the rocking, like.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

That'S one of the things in it inboxing, it's an altruism that the one part of your body that'll always betray you is your feet. Because the adrenaline's got to escape somewhere. So your foot's tapping away 100 miles an hour.

[Podcast Host - Damian Hughes]

Like what?

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

The habits of the hacks that you've learned that control, that adrenaline, so it becomes an energy rather than, like, waste it.

[Billy Billingham]

I think, accepting where you are. I'm in a situation, control your breathing. Literally just fucking calm down, stop fucking panic. I'm here, I'm faced with this. I'm going to deal with it in my head. This is what I'm doing. I'm breathing, controlling my breathing. I'm staying calm. I'm thinking about what's in front of me. I know what the my capabilities are. I know what I could got to deal with. So I've narrowed everything down to this small channel which is easier to control. So your thought process, accepting where you are, controlling breathing now let's deal with it. You've give yourself an opportunity and a chance by controlling yourself before you can control the situation. So control of yourself to control the situation. Accept the problem. It could be difficult, expect it to be difficult. Control your breathing and go at it with what you can. And no, whatever that is, whether it's a written exam, whether that's a fight, whether it's a challenge, it doesn't matter. It's the same thing. Control, relax and go into it.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

Which brings me to the second habit. And I want to talk more about your service with the special Forces. I love the stuff around that. It's not about you. Is one of the habits you talk about in, in the book, the. The idea of seeing leadership as a service rather than status.

[Billy Billingham]

A good leader, if that's what I want to talk about, a good leader is generally the quietest person in the room. Not the person has to stand up and bark and shout and gob off. Because to be a leader you have to have a team. Otherwise who are you fucking leading? Just yourself. You're a solo, you're an individual. It's about trying to be a shepherd rather than a sheep. And I've learned this the hard way, you know, from when I first joined, I gravitated towards the guy who had the biggest mouth because I thought he shouts it all, does it all. Until he led. He did the example of when I expected him to stand up. He didn't stand up and he's pretty weak. Then I realized I need to change my direction, gravitate towards the leader who was quiet, told me what to do. Let the people do the job and then put you right until you got it right when you got it wrong, which was great. As a leader, as I have been and some of the brilliant, most horrendous sort of things that I've been involved in, particularly my latter days with the regiment, my job as a leader is to keep the train on the track. The train needs to go forward and drive the success, which means the people in the team have got responsibility. Allow them to have this responsibility, Allow them to do their job and let them. A team is made up of all leaders. We've all got a job to do. And at some point, somebody's got. The driver's got to drive the easy. The leader now until we get there. The, the navigators, the leader now because he's got to tell us which directions go left and right. I'll be sat at the back going, okay, hang on. I'm gonna slow it down, move it to the right a bit. Do this. I, I, as a good leader, you sit back and use the tools you've got, use the people you've got. Know your strengths and weaknesses. Because you don't have all the answers. Yeah. And you don't. Although, you know, as a sort of major, I've done all the operations, I've been on thousands. So what? There's always something different in everything that we do, and it never always goes exactly the same or two. In fact, it never does. So have the team in front of you that can do the job, allow them to do the job, and you. Then when things start to go pear shape, that's when you become a real leader. You step in now, take control of it, reassess it, go again, and when it goes successfully. Right. Share the love. When it goes wrong, you take it on the chin because you're the boss.

[Podcast Host - Damian Hughes]

Yeah.

[Billy Billingham]

So that leadership thing as we're talking about is about choosing the right people in your team.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Billy Billingham]

Who can do the job, but not micromanaging them and let them do it.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

So for somebody listening to this, you're describing how you've almost like, buried your ego. To be able to listen to others, to recognize strengths and your own weaknesses, what's the habit that you'd advise? Like, how can we all get better at burying our ego?

[Billy Billingham]

Just be true to yourself. You don't have all the answers. Nobody does. You know, I've stood in front of CEOs of oil companies and briefed them on what they know and realize they're just like us. Sometimes we have to cuff it a little bit or make a assumption. The word expert is a weird thing. No one is good at everything. So it's about be true to yourself. Be honest to yourself. Do I know it? If I know it, and I'm sure, 100% sure, which is hard to have that 100, then stick with it. If I'm unsure, then find somebody who is fucking sure and use them. Don't be afraid to do that. So personally, be honest, honest with yourself. Don't be afraid to make a decision, but don't be afraid to fail either, or get knocked back, but be ready to bounce back and have another option to, to make this work.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

So go and tell us about those last two then about the. Be prepared to fail, but then bounce back.

[Billy Billingham]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

Because how can we get better at that?

[Billy Billingham]

It comes with experience. It comes with. There's nothing worse than I wanted to do, but I was too scared to try it. No, no, no, go at it. Don't be afraid to get knocked on your ass. Don't get afraid to be proven wrong. I've been proven wrong loads of times. All my schooling I was proven wrong, you know, but I never gave up. I find I found an alternative. Yeah, so find an alternative. So don't. It's about just look, this might not go to plan and expect it not to go to plan. The old saying, if you put your mind to something, you can do anything. That's. No, you can't. You can't put your mind to it. Then do enough due diligence to say, how am I going to do this? Don't just go in blind. How should I do this? Find a much information, get the right team together. Do what you need to do. Go at it. Don't expect everything to be flexible is probably what I'm trying to say. Stay flexible all the time. Doesn't matter if you're doing it a million times. There'll be something that is different. Be ready for what is different, not for what you already know. Spend your energy and time thinking about what if, what if something until you get to the end result. So accept it. Be honest, have honesty, integrity with self, and don't be afraid. Look, people talk about resilience. You don't have resilience unless you failed. That's what builds resilience. Being put in your box and being knocked back. You know, if you're great at everything, then unfortunately you think you're great at everything. And then when you do fall, you're going to fall out.

[Podcast Host - Damian Hughes]

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[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

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[Podcast Host - Damian Hughes]

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[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

What's been the biggest mistake you've made then that you've learned the most from?

[Billy Billingham]

I think my early days was gravitating towards the wrong people. You know, after being told, probably when you're given information, take it, but then do your own due diligence and add to it. You know, if somebody tells me, oh, so and so's this, I hear what you're saying, but I'll make my own decision. When I was a bit younger, I think we've kind of alluded to it a little bit, I remember fucking finished depot training as a young kid. Now I'm a young man, I'm going to the battalion. And the great bit of advice a wonderful fella told me, unfortunately got killed not long after was, he who shouts aloud has got nothing to tell you. I didn't quite work it out until he was a little bit late. I kind of got what he meant. So my biggest mistake was I gravitated to the guy who told me how hard he was, the guy who won the Falklands War on his own. The guy, you know, to the point of then realizing, fuck, I've just wasted six months of my life because of. So they're my biggest mistakes, you know, and sometimes I'm a little bit. I give people I have too much trust. I'll use the regiment as the example. You get a young kid that are attached to us who do our signals or our medics, they come into our fold of our people. I'll treat them the same and to a degree they are. But then, you know, the days, the early days that turn up and they're like, they've got my radios ready for me, they've got my shit together. And as time gets by and they get treated like, everybody in more relaxed now, My radios ain't ready. This ain't right. They get too complaint. I allow people to get to that point, right, instead of keeping a grip of her going, being a little bit sharp. So they're, they're, they're the mistakes I've made being too honest and too trustworthy too soon.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

See, the word trust to me fascinates me because in your world, that's the difference between life and death.

[Billy Billingham]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

What do you mean or understand by trust?

[Billy Billingham]

Trust is if you're telling me you're going to do something, you're going to do it and you're going to do it to the best of your ability. If you're going to tell me you're going to be there, you're going to be there. Because if I tell you I'm going to be there, I'm going to be there. It's about again, trust is built on honesty, which is you have enough trust in me to tell me something I probably don't know.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

Right.

[Billy Billingham]

So then I'm aware of it and, and vice versa. So the ingredients of trust is that, that on that, that integrity and honesty, everything's got to revolve around that, you know, and if you do up, admit it. I up. Yeah, I got something wrong. You know, I don't know if you're in the same boat as me, but I mean I've got hundreds of people I associate with. I've only got about four or five people that I really do trust, you know, outside of the military. I'm talking about my life right now. You know, obviously my family, my kids, I love, that's a different entity. But people, people are associated to me because they need some of the time or I need whatever, you know what I mean? Or they wanna. There's certain people I would, I have trusted and will trust with my life again and it's, it's honesty and integrity. Those ingredients of knowing everything about each other. Knowing that, you know, if you can't do, you'll tell me you can't do it. Or if you're going to do something, you're going to give it the best of your ability, not half hearted for the wrong reasons.

[Podcast Host - Damian Hughes]

And when you were in the regiment.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

Would you do anything, any exercises or any, anything to develop trust amongst each other?

[Billy Billingham]

Yeah. Everything you do is about trust, you know, because everything we do is dangerous.

[Podcast Host - Damian Hughes]

Yeah.

[Billy Billingham]

Training, some of the training we do is more dangerous than the operations you train for us. You've got to trust each other. You've got to trust, you know, falling through the sky at night, that he knows what he's doing, he's going to be in the right place. You know, you're going in a room and I'm, I'm closer than you, far in, right next to you. I've got to not worry about what you're doing. I've got to worry about what I'm doing because that, what's, that's what Makes a winning format. It's about knowing your capabilities and knowing his capabilities and his capabilities. So it's all that trust is built up, everything you do. So everything we do is trust. Because in that world, in the regiment, if you get it wrong, somebody's going to pay for it. Sadly. And in training, we've had some bad injuries, we've lost people, people have lost lives. We train hard, we train as hard and as real as possible to build that trust, to build that camaraderie. And it becomes muscle memory, instinctiveness, but it's all built around not just being sharp and fast, in a split second, knowing that you're doing 100, your heart, the right thing.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

I want to talk about your new book.

[Billy Billingham]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

Further. That title intrigued me.

[Billy Billingham]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

What do you understand when we talk about Further?

[Billy Billingham]

Further comes from go more, advance, you know, and it comes from. From that young kid, age of nine, being taught boxing. And the old man saying to me, great, fantastic lessons. It told me all about boxing. I know I've said this a million times, but I'll quickly say it anyway. He told me that boxing wasn't a sport of brutality. Boxing is a. It's. It's a poor man's game of chess. That's how he described it to me.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

Chess with gloves on.

[Billy Billingham]

Yeah, it's a poor man's game. It's about respect for each other, respect for the sport. Always have that. Because if you lose respect, you lose discipline. That creates your discipline, he says, you know, and it's about anticipating, reading what's in front of you, you know, reading those signs, those mannerisms, and being one step ahead of it when you can see because somebody almost signaled they're about to do somewhere, either get out the way or go forward and be quicker. It was all those lessons. And he used to finish it off. He goes, you get. You're getting the lessons, you're getting the message. Be prepared for flexibility and change, I. E. You're good, you probably know you're good. He says, but there will be somebody better. And something will. It says, and at that point is when you really need to step up again and learn another lesson. It's about going a little bit further. And those words may etched into my head, I'll never forget as that young kid feeling down, bite my lip, take a breath, go again. Yeah, it hurts. I want to give up. I'm not going to give up. Keep going, keep going, keep going. And he drummed that into us. And then when I joined the sas, the thing always a little Further. And I was like, oh, the air's on the back of my neck, going back. And I've always been doing it anyway. I always want to push myself further. And I've wrote, you know, 10 lessons of my life based on all my experience, my knowledge and what I've been through, that mad world of hardship, because that's what led me to where I am by going that bit further in the cold, in the wet and the rain, being uncomfortable.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

I remember going to Hereford a few years ago and speaking to one of your colleagues.

[Billy Billingham]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

And he'd failed the selection first time round. And when I asked him why, he said, I started to think and he'd use the example where he was going. He was instructed, I think he was in Belize, I might be wrong here, but he instruction was he had to get up and just keep running in the sea and running back out and running back in.

[Billy Billingham]

Yeah, the beach runs.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

And he said, at one stage, I allowed myself to start thinking. And as soon as that happened, it unraveled quite quickly.

[Billy Billingham]

The mines, the money, you start talking yourself out of it. Except it's going to be hard, except it's a passage in time and just get on with it. Just keep going and going and going. And the dawn, as soon as that. That chink in the armor is in there, it gets wider and wider and wide. And then you start talking yourself this. It's not for me. And then come the excuses, oh, I don't want to be away from home, blah, blah. The truth is, it's hard and I'm not ready for it or I've talked myself out of it.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

That's the truth. Yeah.

[Billy Billingham]

You know, so why do so many people fail? Why? They're only so many people. It's because of that. It's just that never give up attitude. It's got to be. It's more than that, but you've got to have that as the driving force to. To just go at it. Just keep going, don't stop.

[Podcast Host - Damian Hughes]

Are you familiar with the work of. There's a.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

There's a physiologist, the guy called Tim Noakes, who talks around the central governor theory that he says, like, when you run in and you start convincing yourself that you're exhausted or you're at fatigue, he, he argues that that's your brain merely just giving you an early warning light and saying you're about 10 gone of what you could actually do.

[Billy Billingham]

Right.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

And the best athletes are ones that can go further. Like your title of the book is those that can override that central governor that's warning them to stop.

[Billy Billingham]

Well, I mean, I don't the science beyond it like this guy does, but, I mean, it makes sense. That's exactly what it is, isn't it? You know, when I drive in your car and you're looking at your petrol thing, all of a sudden it's into the red, you think, well, all right, it's not just going to stop, it's going to go further because it gives you another 30 miles. It's a slightly different example, but in your head you're going, hell, I can hardly breathe. But nah, there's still a little bit long space, I can go a bit further. And it's being able to override that stop now and just go for it, you know, but also having the. The knowledge and sense to go. That is me, though now I know it's. Before you create yourself a permanent damage or kill yourself, you know, I've never run myself into the ground completely. I felt like I have. But it's knowing when to when that's enough, you know, and as a man.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

That is used to sort of spending your life on the outside edge of what's possible. How do you balance that with. I know you're a husband, I know you're a dad and a granddad.

[Billy Billingham]

Yeah. I look at my grandkids and, you know, my kids, dare I say I wasn't the greatest father. I was never around, mainly because of the regimen, but I could have put more effort in. So I'm now being a parent for the first time. But I make sure my grandkids. All the hard lessons I learned, I don't want them to learn it the way I did. I want the. The valuable things that come out of it. I want them to know that. So I do get your iPads out the way. None of that. Yeah, I get them out in the woods, I get them out being cold. I'll get them in the canoes in November. I get them in the river in November. Not to the point where I'm going to hurt them, but I'll let them taste what pain is about and why we do it and what it makes of you. So I like all those lessons. I've learned a balance with the kids. So they're getting something that I'm passing back and that's what it's really all about now, passing everything back.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

So if there was just one habit that you could pass on to your grandkids, you say, I want you to know, learn and adopt this. What is it?

[Billy Billingham]

It's discipline. Whatever you're going to do and you is do it and do it to the best of your ability. Don't make excuses because you only making excuses to yourself. You know, everybody sees through that. So have the discipline to whatever you want to do, go at it and give it everything you've got. Do to your best and if you fail, accept it. I know that's more than one thing but disciplines that the overarching thing.

[Podcast Host - Damian Hughes]

Yeah.

[Billy Billingham]

Have the discipline to say you're gonna do it and do it. Don't just talk about it, do it. And don't be afraid to try it. Don't be afraid if you fail. Be afraid of not giving 100 don't half ass do summit. Just get on with it. And I'm like that with more time and my grand, my, my doors got it pushed them too hard. No, I'm not. I know what I'm doing with them.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Billy Billingham]

You know, so that, that one thing is discipline because it's about you. It's about who you are and what you really are. So I'm going to do it. Well then do it. Don't talk about do it, don't go and do it.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

Your life is a testament of that, Bill. Is it from growing up in Walsall and finding yourself being stabbed at 15.

[Billy Billingham]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

And then hospital bed to lead in the regiment. It's.

[Billy Billingham]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

It's a testimony to.

[Billy Billingham]

It is I've worked hard and I do work. I, I knew I was never going to be academic. I am monkey see, monkey do. I am hands on crawl. I do the hard way. Some smart blog or actually if you do this, do that, you can move that bunch of rubble over there easier. Smart. I'm like, get amongst. Let's go, let's go, let's go. That's who I am. Yeah. You know, there are smarter ways and I'll admit that. But I will get it done. I will get it done the way I know best and it generally did the hard way. And that's what I've done. You know, try to be smart as I get older but I ain't afraid of being tired, exhausted and scared and you know, I'll get it done, I'll get done. And it has been that journey. You know, I look at my childhood and growing up and what I went through. I don't want my kids to go through. I don't want, I don't want my. Certainly don't want my grandkids going through it. But I want you to get the fundamental values out of everything that I've done. Not everything's about being comfortable. I feel when I talk about things like I talk the American way. I love America to bits. But Evans about it's smarter in many ways but it's easier, you know, everything's easier. Take your laundry to the laundrette. Oh no, we've got a drive through. So walk to the laundry with your stuff. No, we're gonna drive to it.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

Right.

[Billy Billingham]

You know, everything's easier. It's about taking out the physical side of things and the thought process that's important to to have those basic things to do.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

Mate, this has been amazing.

[Billy Billingham]

Thank you. I've really loved chatting with you and likewise mate.

[Podcast Host - Damian Hughes]

Thank you for listening to the essential habits of High performance. What Billy Billingham shows us is that peak performance is forged through doing the rigorous boring routine disciplines. It's a built on the non negotiable behaviors that ground us in chaos. It's about a relentless pursuit of just pushing through once you've made the decision to go after something and the power of taking total accountability for whatever those decisions are. These are lessons that we can all.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

Apply whether we're facing a career crisis.

[Podcast Host - Damian Hughes]

Or just having a difficult week. I'm Damian Hughes and until next time.

[Podcast Host - Co-host or Interviewer]

Choose your habits carefully because as we've.

[Podcast Host - Damian Hughes]

Discovered, they're what shape who you eventually become.

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[Billy Billingham]

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