The High Performance Podcast

Episode: The Secret to Feeling Calm When Out of Your Depth

Hosts: Jake Humphrey & Damien Hughes
Release Date: December 5, 2025

Overview

In this reflective episode, hosts Jake Humphrey and Damien Hughes revisit powerful moments and insights from six years of High Performance conversations, focusing on the universal challenge of feeling "out of your depth." Through guest clips and personal stories, they unpack how elite performers from various fields — including sport, business, and adventure — manage fear, change, and discomfort, providing listeners with tools to cultivate calm, courage, and resilience when confronted with the unknown.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Feeling Out of Your Depth Matters

• The episode centers on strategies for managing situations where you feel stretched, anxious, or unsure — whether by choice or by circumstance.
• High achievers routinely face imposter syndrome and moments of vulnerability. What sets them apart is how they process and channel these feelings.
• “Dealing with being out of your depth is a key tenet to high performance.”
  — Jake Humphrey [03:08]

2. Labeling and Articulating Fear

• Clip: Tom Aspinall, UFC Heavyweight Fighter
  • Tom candidly discusses the taboo of fear in combat sports, explaining that all fighters feel it, but most hide it:

    “If you’re not scared, then you’re either a complete idiot or you’re just lying… Fear is extremely present in what I do.”
    — Tom Aspinall [06:01]

• Science-backed Approach:
  • Referencing Dr. Matthew Lieberman’s research, Damien notes that naming feelings “disrupts the amygdala’s activity,” making emotions feel more manageable.
  • “If you can get it out of your head and into the domain... immediately [the emotion] becomes diluted.” — Damien Hughes [05:03]

3. Acceptance and Letting Go

• Clip: Petr Čech, Football Goalkeeper
  • Petr shares how obsessing over not making mistakes used to stress him, until he learned to ignore the score and focus on his job:

    “If I just ignored the score and ignored all the stuff I couldn’t control… There is no score, there is no problem... just do your job.”
    — Petr Čech [10:54]

• Hosts’ Reflection:
  • Much of our fear comes from catastrophizing or resisting reality rather than simply accepting our situation.

4. Strategies for Processing Setbacks

• Mo Gawdat’s Checklist:
  • When something goes wrong:
    1. Is it true?
    2. Can I do anything about it?
    3. How can I live with it despite its presence?
  • This practical logic accelerates emotional processing.
  • Referenced by Damien Hughes [14:12]
• Research:
  • Successful people focus on habits, not outcomes (Ashley Merriman, Top Dog).

5. Stepping into Discomfort: Growth by Choice

• Clip: Alex Greenwood, England Lioness
  • Alex recalls the anxiety-regret of leaving the comfort of Manchester for Lyon, despite the move being her dream:

    “I had an instant feeling of regret… I was like, what am I doing? But I was to play for the best women’s team in the world.”
    — Alex Greenwood [15:53]

• Key Takeaway:
  • Growth often comes by choosing the harder path. Even “good” change brings anxiety and resistance.

6. Lowering the Barriers to Action

• Advice from James Clear (author of Atomic Habits):
  • “The heaviest weight is always the front door.” — [17:57]
• Damien’s Practical Guidance:
  • Shrink the daunting step; start with micro-actions.
  • “Momentum follows action. Just taking one small step to do something different creates momentum that can work in our favor.” — Damien Hughes [18:20]

7. Choosing Hard Things Builds Confidence & Resilience

• Host Reflection:

  • Challenges in early life drive growth, yet as adults we’re conditioned to seek ease and avoid difficulty at the expense of further development.
  • Reframing discomfort as evidence-gathering for future challenges is essential.
  • “How good you’re willing to be depends on how long you’re willing to be shit at something.” — Jake Humphrey [19:13]

• Steve Magnus (Do Hard Things):

  • Elite performance and resilience come from regular, voluntary exposure to difficulty.

    “When you do hard things, you give your brain evidence that gives it confidence.”
    — Damien Hughes [20:37]

8. Deliberate Exposure to Micro-Challenges

• Clip: Nick Cox, Former Man United Academy Coach
  • On developing resilient youth players:

    “It’s lots of little microdoses of finding stuff hard along the way… When you rescue kids from a difficult situation, you’re taking that learning opportunity away.”
    — Nick Cox [22:35]

• Balance is Key:
  • Regular, moderate challenges foster growth; unrelenting hardship burns out, while too much comfort stagnates.

9. Normalize Facing Difficult Conversations and Fears

• Example:

  • Zak Brown (McLaren F1) routinely addresses “the elephant in the room” to normalize discomfort and create team resilience.

• The Goldilocks Zone:

  • Ideal learning (and growth) happens at the edge of current abilities — not too hard, not too easy.
  • “If it’s too easy, you don’t learn anything; if it’s too hard, you don’t learn anything either.”
    — Damien Hughes [26:34]

10. Overcoming Fear of the “Big Leap”

• Clip: Alex Honnold, Free Climber
  • Confront what's holding you back; fear is often unfounded:

    “Maybe you should just do the thing you’ve been wanting to do. What’s to lose?”
    — Alex Honnold [27:38]

• On Normalizing Fear:
  • Even Honnold’s legendary calm is the result of “10 years of traveling to El Capitan and being frightened by it and just choosing to expose myself to the idea of it.”
    — Damien Hughes [28:09]

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “If you’re not scared, then you’re either a complete idiot or you’re just lying.” — Tom Aspinall [06:01]
• “Much of the struggle that we have in life, we are creating.” — Jake Humphrey [12:41]
• “Life is always nil nil, isn’t it?” — Jake Humphrey [15:07]
• “The heaviest weight is always the front door.” — James Clear, as quoted [17:55]
• “It’s lots of little microdoses of finding stuff hard along the way.” — Nick Cox [22:35]
• “If it’s too easy, you don’t learn anything; if it’s too hard, you don’t learn anything either.” — Damien Hughes [26:34]
• “Maybe you should just do the thing you’ve been wanting to do. What’s to lose?” — Alex Honnold [27:38]
• “We are not saying leave that partner, quit that job, move to that country… what we are saying is that… what you don’t want to be is on your deathbed with those ghosts of missed opportunity floating around.” — Jake Humphrey [29:01]

Final Section

Practical Strategies for Feeling Calm When Out of Your Depth

• Acknowledge fear and label your emotions.
• Focus on what you can control; let go of the rest.
• Take micro-steps to build momentum — don’t aim for perfection on day one.
• Seek the ‘Goldilocks zone’ of challenge: not too hard, not too easy.
• Deliberately choose some hard things to build self-trust and resilience.
• Surround yourself with supportive people who help process and normalize challenge.

Closing Words

"You will never, ever live a life free of fear. But you should be able to live a life where you trust yourself enough to do those things that are just a little bit scary. And the more you do, the further you go.”
— Jake Humphrey [30:41]

For deeper dives, listen to the individual guest episodes highlighted in this conversation. If you know someone who needs to hear this, share it with them.