Why You Keep Misreading People | Surrounded By Idiots Author

Summary

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The High Performance Podcast

Episode: Why You Keep Misreading People | Surrounded By Idiots Author
Date: December 17, 2025
Host: Damien Hughes
Guest: Thomas Erikson, author of Surrounded by Idiots

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Episode Overview

This episode spotlights the vital importance of adapting your communication style to match your listener’s needs. Damien Hughes hosts renowned Swedish behavioral expert Thomas Erikson, whose bestselling book Surrounded by Idiots introduced millions to a simple color-coded framework that helps decode—and improve—everyday interactions. Through wit and practical insight, Erikson demystifies why misunderstandings are so common and equips listeners to read people more accurately and build better relationships in work and life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Communication Happens on the Receiver’s Terms

• Main Idea: Most people communicate based on their own needs, but the best communicators flip this and focus on the receiver.
  • Erikson: “Communication happens on the receiver's terms... People hear what they hear, they see what they see, they think what they think. We can't change the other person very much...” (05:05)
• Actionable Change: If you could only change one communication habit, make it this: talk less and listen more.

2. Self-Awareness Is the Foundation

• Self-awareness leads to social competence. You must understand yourself first before you can adapt to others.
  • Erikson: “Social competence is to understand how my actions and my words affect your actions and your words... Self awareness is the starting point.” (07:08)
• Humility is essential—including realizing most of us aren’t as socially skilled as we think we are.

3. The Four Color Framework Explained

• Red: Extroverted, task-oriented. Direct, fast-paced, competitive, impatient.

• Yellow: Extroverted, people-oriented. Inspiring, creative, loves interacting, sometimes scattered.

• Green: Introverted, people-oriented. Calm, caring, team-first, dislikes change, listens well.

• Blue: Introverted, task-oriented. Detail-driven, factual, analytical, values quality.

  "The reds need results, the yellows need inspiration, the greens need stability and the blues need quality."
  —Thomas Erikson (15:34)

• Most people are a mix: 80% comprise two-color blends; a small minority are “pure” types.

4. Can You Change Your Color Profile?

• Personality is largely fixed by adulthood, but you can learn to “dial up” other colors as needed.
  • Erikson: "I have learned it. I have a switch within me that I can turn on... I can play a role. So can you." (18:03, 19:41)
• Success in communication relies on deliberate, conscious adaptation based on self-awareness.

5. Practical Examples & Personal Stories

• Reading Others: Thomas recounts how he recognized his wife’s pure-red profile in seconds at a book fair—enabling immediate rapport. (22:08)
• Application: In both business and personal life, understanding types saves time and prevents unnecessary conflict.

6. Why Learning This Matters for High Performers

• You can never succeed alone: “No one will succeed with anything, ever, anywhere, unless you get some help from other people... If you don't know how to deal with human beings, you will mess up.” (24:20)

• Teams, families, and all organizations benefit when members learn to adapt to—and respect—differences.

  “The idiots are actually not idiots at all. They're just not like you."
  —Thomas Erikson (27:15)

7. Microhabits: Small Daily Practices

• Easiest impactful habit: Ask for feedback.
  • How would others like to receive information?
  • After meetings or presentations, inquire: “Am I making myself clear? Do we have a good balance here?”
  • Tailor your method (email, summary, bullet-points, face-to-face, etc.) to their preference. (27:51)
• Example: Modifying interaction styles for a green colleague (preferring written notes over immediate discussion) led to better-quality input.

8. Adapting to Groups: The Headline Analogy

• When addressing groups, blend message formats:
  • Headlines: for reds (quick, direct).
  • Short summaries: for yellows (engaging, inspirational).
  • Detailed content: for greens (full stories).
  • Data/facts: for blues (sources, charts).
  • Erikson: "You have to try to squeeze it all in to make everyone pay attention..." (31:57)

9. Ultimate Communication Lesson: Focus

• Great communication demands undivided attention.
  • Erikson: "When you are communicating with the person, focus on that individual as sharply as you just are able to do… Don’t try to fiddle with your phone. Don’t do anything else..."
  • Even a switched-off phone on the table can sap 22% of your focus! (34:10)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Communication happens on the receiver's terms. That is basically my main, main notion here.”
  —Thomas Erikson (05:05)

• “Self-awareness builds social competence, which builds great communication skills. It’s a perfect system.”
  —Thomas Erikson (07:08)

• “If you have all the answers, what do you need your staff for?”
  —Thomas Erikson (11:05)

• "The idiots are actually not idiots. They're just not like you. And frankly also, some people find the idiot in the mirror."
  —Thomas Erikson (27:15)

• "Ask people for feedback. It's the easiest way, the quickest way to achieve results here."
  —Thomas Erikson (27:51)

• “When you are communicating with a person, focus on that individual as sharply as you are able to do...”
  —Thomas Erikson (34:10)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:03 – Damien Hughes introduces Thomas Erikson and sets up the episode’s theme
• 05:05 – Erikson explains communicating on the receiver's terms
• 07:08 – The importance of self-awareness and social competence
• 12:51 – Introduction and summary of the Four Color framework
• 16:24 – Personal color profile mixes and how common "pure colors" are
• 18:03, 19:41 – Can people change their profiles? Understanding flexibility and adaptation
• 22:08 – Personal story: reading someone’s color and how it changed the interaction
• 24:20 – Why understanding others is essential for success
• 27:51 – Microhabit: ask for feedback and tailor your communication
• 31:57 – Adapting your message for large groups—newspaper article analogy
• 34:10 – Thomas’s final advice: focused communication is the key to everything

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Three Core Takeaways (as recapped by Damien Hughes at the end)

1. Communication is on the receiver's terms: The sooner you accept people are different (not difficult), everything gets easier.
2. Listen deeply, be present: Only speak when you have value to add. When others talk, focus entirely—no distractions.
3. Ask for feedback: Regularly ask how people want to receive information and if you’re communicating clearly.

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Tone and Style

• Tone: Conversational, pragmatic, humorous at times, always direct—mirroring Thomas Erikson’s style and the relaxed, insightful vibe of the show.
• Approach: Candid storytelling, practical real-world examples, quick-witted exchanges.

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This episode offers a memorable, practical guide to everyday communication, rooted in self-awareness and adaptability. By understanding the four color profiles and putting feedback at the heart of your daily interactions, you can move from endless misunderstandings to high-performance relationships at work, in teams, and at home.

Transcript

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[Thomas Erikson]

Welcome.

[Damien Hughes]

To the Essential Habits of High Performance. This is the podcast where we explore the daily practices, the mindsets, and those small changes that can create extraordinary results. I'm your host, Damien Hughes, and today we're diving into a skill that impacts on every area of your life. Communication. Here's the thing. Most of us communicate based on what we need. We speak the way we want to be spoken to. And that's exactly why many of us can feel like we're struggling. Our guest today is Thomas Eriksson, the Swedish behavioural expert behind the global phenomenon bestseller Surrounded by Idiots, a book that's been translated into 70 languages and has helped millions of people finally understand why some conversations flow effortlessly while others feel like talking to a brick wall. Thomas, Essential Habit is deceptively simple. Adapt your communication style to match your listener's needs. Not just speaking clearly, but speaking differently depending on who you're talking to. When you master this habit, something remarkable happens. You connect more deeply, misunderstandings tend to evaporate and you start getting better results at work and at home and in every relationship that matters. In this conversation, Thomas breaks down his four colour framework, red, yellow, green and blue, and shows you exactly how to read people in minutes. Adjust your approach and finally feel like you've been heard. So whether you're leading a team, raising a family, or just tired of feeling misunderstood, this episode will change how you communicate forever. Come on, let's dive in.

So, Thomas, welcome to the Essential Habits of High Performance.

[Thomas Erikson]

Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

[Damien Hughes]

If we can jump into it, I'd like to understand. You say that most of us speak based on what we need, but the best communicators.

Flip that, would you? Explain what you mean.

[Thomas Erikson]

Communication happens on the receiver's terms. That is basically my main, main notion here. People hear what they hear, they see what they see, they think what they think. We can't change the other person very Much. And just, I mean, I'm not the first one who's claiming this, using yourself as some sort of role model for how every conversation should go. That's just not going to work. Because people are different. There's nothing wrong with you, but they are different, most other people. So we have to pay attention to the other person, the receiver, the receiver's end. What is happening over there? How will. How would this person like to be, you know, talked to? How would this person like to be addressed? When you figure that out, things will go so much smoother.

[Damien Hughes]

So if you only had time to change one thing in how we communicate.

What would that be?

[Thomas Erikson]

One thing. Oh, dear. Well, it's going to be a classic one. Close your mouth and open your ears. It's going to help so much if you only speak when you have something to say, something to say of value. I understand that would be a weird podcast. I understand that. But frankly, a lot of people are talking without having much to contribute to the situation with, and I do that, too. Sometimes. It's one thing if you sit around, you know, the dinner table or you're just chatting about, you know, this and that, the weather or your gardening projects or whatever, maybe it doesn't matter. But when it matters, you can learn so much more by actually closing the big lid in the front and just open up what's on the side of your head. Some people do that, most people don't, because they know what's right. So they're going to tell you their story and they're going to give you their facts and they're going to tell you their opinions and all those things. Sometimes it's interesting, sometimes it's actually not that interesting. Wouldn't you agree?

[Damien Hughes]

Yeah, definitely. But what have you learned about how we can all learn to listen better in terms of closing our mouth and engaging with the other person?

[Thomas Erikson]

Well, it's about self awareness. I mean, what we're talking about here is something that I call social competence. Some people call it people skills. Doesn't really matter what you call it. It's about how to interact with other people. In order to be a great communicator, you have to have social competence. On the other hand, what is social competence? Well, according to my experience, it works the same thing. Like with humor. Everybody thinks they have it right. You can even, you know, if you ask a huge crowd of people, 100 people, hey, do you have humor? No one's gonna say no, not me. I didn't get any. My brother got some. I didn't get any humor. I'm struggling, you know, through life here. No. Some people even think they're funny. We met those too, you know, cracking jokes that it's not funny at all. But social competence is to understand how my actions and my words affect your actions and your words. What I do affect you and what you do affects me. Okay, so how do you get social competence or people skills? Well, you need to understand yourself. In order to understand how I affect you, I need to understand me. So self awareness is the starting point. Regardless of where you're heading. Self awareness builds social competence, which builds great communication skills. It's a perfect system. So you start with yourself. Are you a poor listener already? Are you an excellent listener? Most people are not excellent listeners. Some have it in them, like sort of. It comes more natural for some people to listen and pay attention. Sure, not everybody is really lousy there, but a lot of people could train this skill. I would say, before we get into.

[Damien Hughes]

Talking about self awareness and the wider framework of how we train this skill. Who did you write surrounded for idiots for? In other words, like, what problem were you trying to solve?

[Thomas Erikson]

Oh, that's a great question. Who did I write it for? Well, I met this entrepreneur many years ago, an older guy, well, probably this age now, probably. But I was fairly young. I was, you know, under 30 years of age. And he was surrounded by idiots. I was a management consultant, new in the business. And I asked him, what seems to be the problem here? And he said, well, you know, idiots here, idiots are there, idiots everywhere? And I said, you really don't mean that now, do you? Surely there's not idiots in here? And he said, there are idiots, you know, Department A, only morons and stupid people. Department B, they don't know what they're doing, can't get a decent answer. Department C, don't even get me started. That's how he phrased it. And I asked the only question that could come to mind. I said, who brought in all the idiots? And he threw me out. That is actually a true story. But it got me thinking. If a guy, 60 plus something, have still succeeded, he was a fairly successful entrepreneur. You see, if he had struggled through life thinking everyone was an idiot and still have achieved what he had achieved, he had, you know, a couple of hundreds of employees. What might he have achieved if he actually knew how to communicate with people? So when I started writing, I was thinking about this guy. Really. If people in this business, in sales and management and leadership trainings and all this, if they are interested in communication skills, why not try to address even more people? So then I started to think, what about just the average Joe, you know, the guy on the street? Could I express myself in a way that anyone could sort of wrap their head around and say, okay, I can use this? It turned out pretty okay. I would say.

[Damien Hughes]

Well, more than okay. So you've worked since the book's come out with a wide range of leaders and teams and whole organizations.

What do you see as the biggest.

Mistake that people make when it comes to understanding your message about communication?

[Thomas Erikson]

That is a good question. What's the biggest mistake? I would like to say something smart here. There's a number of them. A common one is to think they actually have all the answers. Still, a lot of leaders in managing positions, they think they know it all. And I usually say, if you have all the answers, what do you need your staff for? If they don't know anything, you know, everything, why are they even there and say, well, it's not that easy. I know, but. So what's going on here? People in managing positions, they are just like you and I. They're just regular people who just didn't get away in time when the question popped, would you like to be a boss around here? I say it a little bit with the irony, but that happens a lot. A lot of people, they don't have a plan. They just been an expert for 10 years, and now I'm a manager all of a sudden. But I haven't had any training. I don't know how to manage, how to communicate, how to delegate, how to give feedback, how to coach people. How would I know? No one told me. So I'm trying to avoid the mistakes my bosses have made, treated me badly and so on. We all have had a bad boss, I assume, but I would say people use themselves as a role model. This is what I like. This is how I would like to be addressed.

[Damien Hughes]

I think what you've described there is so powerful, Thomas, because how frequently do. Like when you think of going to university or college, you're taught the technical skills rather than how do you communicate your message to another audience? So can you give us a quick guide to the four types, the red, yellow and green and blue, that you expand upon in the book and give us an idea of what each colour represents and what they need from a conversation?

[Thomas Erikson]

The disc profile has been around for 50 years. Maybe something the original papers came from. Actually, 1928, William Walter Marstone, who wrote a book called Emotions of Normal People, which is an interesting title, would Say emotions of normal people. Meaning this only works on people who are mentally stable. Let's call them. He was a psychologist. It's about extroversion versus introversion, task orientation versus people orientation. So you get a two by two matrix and you have red people who are extrovert, task oriented. They are fast forward thinkers, competitive, a bit harsh on other people because they are so impatient, you know, let's get going. Life is short, you know. Speed up, speed up. What's going on here? Why are you so slow? They like to win things and they are result oriented, very focused on goals and achievements. Then you have the other extrovert profile which is yellow character who is not task oriented but people oriented. The smiley ones, the happy ones, the shiny ones.

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[Thomas Erikson]

Come into my arms. Who are you? I love you. Tell me your name. You know, everyone is an interesting individual and people are fantastic. These people are inspiring, very influential. They have ideas. Creativity is sort of through the roof. Some of these people are, well, so creative. They haven't touched ground since, I don't know, mid-90s or something. They answer questions no one is asking. They solve problems no one's ever heard of. It's amazing actually. Frankly, they use a lot of words and they never find their pencil. The other people oriented profile is the green character going on to the, to the introvert side. Calm, friendly, caring, sharing, very team oriented. The individual is number two, but the team is number one. We have to stay friends, you see. We have to, you know, get along really well and, you know, be good buddies. They are excellent. These are the people who have a natural tendency for active listening because they don't speak unless they are sort of addressed. Call it. So they listen and pay attention. But the worst problem they have is changes. Changes. I mean, who asks for changes? It was much better before. Well, it wasn't better before, but it's worse now, isn't it? And then finally you have the blue character which is task oriented and introvert. The engineers, the tax sheriff. You have like a brain surgeon, an accountant maybe. Detail oriented, fact based quality. All of those things asking 1 million questions. The Reds need results, the yellows need inspiration. The greens need stability and the blues need quality and you know, analyzing everything. So if you know this. But these are only for basics, right? These are only like the basic ingredients in the soup here, let's call it. But if you understand what you put in the soup, you can also mix things and combine things. Most people are a combination of two colors.

[Damien Hughes]

Yeah.

So if you'd expand on that Because I love the explanation you've offered. But I'm thinking as I'm listening to it, I can see a little bit of yellow. There's certainly a bit of red at times in me. So would you explain about how we can all recognize the mix that we have?

[Thomas Erikson]

80% of people show a combination of two colors. It could be any combination. It could be red and yellow, could be yellow and green, could be blue and red or whatever. Yeah, three. Three colors goes for 15%. I am one of those people, which makes me harder to analyze and interpret than people who have only one color, like my wife. 5% of the population shows one color. If it's red, it's the least common because reds are less than 10%. And my wife tells me, she keeps telling me, well, you know, dear husband of mine, I am only red. She has red and nothing else. Nothing else. Which means she's 9.5% out of 5%, which is half a percentage. She says it's very red. I said, absolutely, dear. You are unique. What else could I say? So that's it. The more you put into the mix here, the harder it is for people surrounding you to actually understand you. And I hear that. I get that. Not a lot, but I get it. Sometimes it's hard to figure out. I have three high bars on the graph, so. Yeah. And now you're supposed to ask me which those are.

[Damien Hughes]

Go on.

[Thomas Erikson]

Well, I have a really high red bar, really high blue bar, equally high, actually, which gives me a really task oriented profile mainly. Then I have actually a relatively high yellow bar as well. I have no green whatsoever. I'm so sorry. I don't know what happened. I blame it on my mother's side. They took all the green there. So there you go.

[Damien Hughes]

And how fluid are people being able to move between these different color types? So you said that you have no green. Is that something that you could learn or develop?

[Thomas Erikson]

I have learned it. I have a switch within me that I can turn on now. I have to go into, for example, active listening mode. Right. But I have to turn it on. Then I turn it off again automatically because that is not who I am. When the frontal lobe closes in your forehead, your personality gets fixed. It happens with young girls at 18, 19, young men the age of. Sorry, anyone who's listening, 23, 24. Some people never reach adulthood, mentally speaking. You've seen those on TikTok, for instance. That was a joke. Yeah, no, we have seen them on TikTok and everywhere. But the point is this. When your personality Gets fixed. So does your general behavior traits. The behaviors comes from your personality. More things comes from there as well. But people try to understand your personality based on your actions. Right. That's how we try to understand. Who is this guy really? Oh, he's stone faced. He's looking like he has this frowning forehead. What's going on? Is it good, is it bad? What is it? When you understand what lies beneath, you can start talking about the personality in generally speaking, people. There's a vast body of research around this. People usually do not change personality. You are who you are. Footnote. Unless you suffer from some psychological trauma, like what would you say, a near death experience or you lose a child, something really horrible happens to you. Complete burnout, stress burnout, something like that, that could change you in your inner core.

[Damien Hughes]

Yeah.

[Thomas Erikson]

Otherwise you're going to be you. So when I say I don't have any green, does that mean I can never learn how to act green? No, but it means I have to practice it. I have to deliberately tell myself, turn the red down because it's the opposite of green. Turn the red down and sort of turn the green up. I can do that. Anyone can do that if they have self awareness. That's the beauty of it. If you don't understand where the bars are, if you don't understand how you are perceived by people around you when you introduce yourself to the room and people think that you are sort of aggressive, maybe you should turn the red piece down and you know, sort of turn, turn something else up. At least that's usually what happens when people understand and get feedback. Which means in a meeting for 90 minutes, during a podcast with you for, for 45 minutes, I can play a role. So can you. I mean, you said just now you are probably an extrovert. Yellow, red, sometimes something going back and forth. Okay, that's just what you told me. But now you are paying attention. I can see in your face there, Damon. You are listening actively to what I'm saying, which makes you green right now, even though you're not green. But this is a trained behavior. This is your profession. Right. And we all do that. The trick that I am aiming for is to do it deliberately, to have a conscious thought, am I going in this direction or in that direction right now? When you understand who you are and you understand the context in the room now you can sort of adapt the correct way instead of just do some lucky guessing.

[Damien Hughes]

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If you do that, you'll also get an extra 20% off the price of the book too. Try it. We hope to see you joining us.

Here in the studio soon. Can you give us a personal example then of where you've been able to understand the color orientation of someone that has had a positive outcome for you?

[Thomas Erikson]

Well, there's a number of, number of examples. I can take my wife as an example. I read her within like 15 seconds. First time I met her. So I knew this lady. We met late in life. I was almost 50. We've been married for, what is it now, seven years. I think eight years. Seven years.

[Damien Hughes]

So what was the context in which you met them?

[Thomas Erikson]

At a book fair in Sweden, actually, because she's an author as well. I was launching, surrounded by Edith when I met her. I just been through a divorce. She was in the middle of divorce. But I saw something in her eyes. She had this sharp look looking at me like this. And the first question was, okay, so who are you? Then I'm like, okay, not green and not yellow. Still she paid attention, so probably red. So I just said, well, who are you to ask me that question? She started to laugh. Right, we can sort of get to the point. Okay, I write this. And what do you write? Okay, are you any good? Yeah, kind of. Sort of. Have you sold any books? So, you know, I figured it out within no time at all. And she stared at me and then she started to smile. Okay, I like you, let's go for lunch. That is actually what happened. So we went for lunch again. Some people are easier to read. She has only one color. By then she didn't care what people were thinking about her. She knows this system just as good as I do. She's my CEO by the way. And so I send her out there, you know, in the trenches when things need to be done. And she said, speak to my boss, she's over there. She sort of filtered the stupid stuff out and said, okay, you can talk to these people, but not to those people. These are just, you know, blah, blah, blah. No time for that. But this is good, this is professionals. Give them a call. Okay, fine. She's excellent. She's the best. Maybe the best sales rep I've met in my life. Completely fearless. Seriously, completely fearless. She's a top performer, you know, through the roof.

[Damien Hughes]

I love that example and thank you for sharing it about your own personal relationship. And would you mind expanding it then for our listeners, Thomas, and talk a.

Little bit about what are the wider.

Benefits then in not only reading the book, but more importantly, understanding these different colour profiles. Why is this worthy of their time and attention?

[Thomas Erikson]

It goes back to you whenever. Whatever goals you have in life, regardless of where you're heading, where you're aiming or heading, maybe aiming and heading there at the same time, regardless of what plans you have for your own future, you're always dependent on other people, right?

[Damien Hughes]

Yeah.

[Thomas Erikson]

The Americans have a stupid saying, I'm a self made man. They say, well, frankly, you're not. That's the first wrong here. You're not. That's just a flawed reasoning. And secondly, if you're self made, everyone is self made, but only the billionaires claim to be self made, right? So I think that's stupid. No one will succeed with anything, ever, anywhere, unless you get some help from other people. And in order to sort of bring in people in your team, if it's in your professional team at work, or if you're an entrepreneur or whatever, if you're a sales guy or girl, woman, whatever, or if it's about family, business, it could be anything, anything. Or if it's about creating a football team, you need other people. I know it sounds like a stupid cliche, but we have to remind ourselves about this. This is my firm belief. If you don't know how to deal with human beings, you will mess up. That's just the way it is. There's no way around it. If you are an excellent communicator, you will get better people surrounding you. You will get better people on your team. You will get people that you understand and that understands you, which is a great thing. That's a perfect thing. I would recommend that if they sort of figure you out quickly and you figure them out quickly, you will save so much time. Instead of, you know, wasting time on useless conflicts or stupid misunderstandings, just, you know, wait them week after week. Well, he said, or she thought, oh, I don't know who, who's got the protocol here. You can get straight to the point and work on your own success. Regardless of what it is. If it is building the team or making money or, or finding, you know, whatever, train the football team or just raising your kids, if you have everyone on the team with you on, wherever you're going, it's going to work out smooth as silk. But you have to work on it. You cannot say, well, I am like this. You have to take me as I am. Maybe, maybe. But then you have to accept the fact you're going to mess it up. That's just the way it is. You're going to lose time, you're going to get headaches, stomach ache, ache everywhere really. That's the main reason if you want to deal with people, read a book about how to deal with people. And when you do, you understand the idiots are actually not idiots at all. They're just not like you. And frankly also some people find the idiot in the mirror. You see, happened to me once, did not end happily. You have to be smarter than that.

[Damien Hughes]

I mean, that's a pretty compelling argument for it.

[Martha Stewart]

But.

[Damien Hughes]

I'm interested in almost like, how can we boil this down into like a small daily practice that people could do this? So when I've been listening to you describe this so well, Thomas, you've, you've spoken about this idea of the self awareness, of recognizing that I need to adapt this, I need to dial up more green. Or you listen to somebody and you can do that. What's the most essential daily habit, the smallest habit that people can adopt to be able to become better communicators?

[Thomas Erikson]

Then ask for feedback. Ask people for feedback. It's the easiest way, the quickest way to achieve results. Here you ask someone, let's say that you have a co worker or you have a teammate. Let's say it's at work. Let's say that could be your wife, could be your husband. But it's easier if it's not within the family because, you know, relationships, that's tricky. We know that. Ask for feedback or ask people, how would you like me to present this to you? People say, I can't do that. Then I think, I don't know them. Well, it's a smart move. I have something I need to tell you. I have feedback for you. How would you like me to go about? Well, get straight to the point. People will say, are you sure? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Give me the details. Give it all to me. Could you send me an email? Could you write it down? Could you write bullet points? Not more than five. People will usually tell you if you dare to ask, actually. And you can. When I say ask for feedback, ask them for feedback. Am I making myself clear? Do we have a good balance in our way to communicate here? It's the absolute best way. And the problem is, of course, or rather the challenge here is, well, it could be a problem as well. Different people will respond in different ways. Some will say, I think you speak a bit too quick for me. I need, you know, to boil it down, I need to spend more time on the details or on the facts or the background. Some will say, you know, I have it, you know, I just drop me a text, three words, I'm on it. People will need different things. That's the beauty of leadership. I assume a lot of listeners here probably have some sort of managing position because they are high performers. Fine, that is absolutely fantastic. But people are different. The more you get feedback and the more you can give feedback to people, the quicker it gets. People feel a little bit uncomfortable. I can't ask for these things. I can't ask them. How would you like me to speak to you? Why not? I do it on a weekly basis. If I have. I have a co worker who is greenish, you know, it's a bit, you know, it doesn't make. It doesn't take much space in the room, it doesn't use one dash of oxygen if it doesn't have to. And asking him questions is more like, you know, you get some sort of mumbling. And I said, okay, you see, what I need from you now is what you actually think about Topic xyz. So could you write down two sentences on each and then we can talk about it and say, yeah, I can do that. Because that sort of releases the tension in a verbal conversation. So he drops me an email and then I go back and say, okay, I read your points here. Interesting. Now could we have a conversation about this? Can we have a talk? I need coffee. He says that absolutely. Let's get some coffee. So we sort of arrange a nice environment around this. And then I sit down, I don't fold my arms, I don't look like this, you know, okay, keep talking. You know, do, do, do, do. TAPPING I just sit there and wait. And sometimes it takes him five minutes to get started. But I know when he opens his lid in the front something interesting will come out, because now he has pondered the question and perused the whole scheme here. And then he says, I think I have it. Maybe. What if we did this and that and so on. That's how I do it. I tell him, how would you like to go about. Sometimes it's wrong. And I say, maybe we need to speed up a little bit because these things take time. He just so happens to be relatively green. Not just green. But probably. Well, I know his highest bar is green. That's one example. Does this answer your question?

[Damien Hughes]

Yeah, it does. I mean, it's a really powerful example. My mind is going, though, towards when you present to groups or when you're talking to a wide group of people, what skills or habits have you learned? To be able to engage a number of people whilst being adaptive?

[Thomas Erikson]

That will always be a challenge. I give lectures from top management teams of six people, up to 10,000 people on a big stage. I can't be the same, Thomas. Everywhere, obviously think it like, you remember when we read newspapers, right? Those were the days, weren't they? There was a headline, you know, you know, some catastrophe is going on. Then you have one paragraph with, you know, still in. What's it called? In bold, something like summary. And then you have the article, and then you have the fact sheet, you know, in the back of the article. Some, something. That's how you do it. The headline is for the reds. The first sort of summer is for the yellows. The article in itself with whatever happened, regardless of whatever it was, is for the greens. And the blues will read all of this and they will also check the facts. There's a diagram at the bottom. Oh, that's interesting. There's a source there. I will google this one. So you have to try to squeeze it all in to make everyone pay attention in the same meeting at the same time. And yes, it is a challenge. I'm not going to say that's easy. No, it isn't. Sometimes it's super complex. Sometimes you have only engineers in the room. They would like to have the whole kaboom every time, repeatedly. Because that's interesting. They can tell you how many rows there are in Excel. I mean, why would anyone check these things out? Well, that's interesting, really. So that's how they would like you to address them. If you only have yellow salespeople in the room, you have to be inspirational while still delivering the message. And you have to control. Did you actually listen to me? Did you hear what I told you? Because these people are poor listeners. It's easy when it's one group, but it's usually some sort of mix.

[Damien Hughes]

I love this. It's been so valuable, Thomas, and I really appreciate you sharing so much rich data. If there was one message then that you would want to leave our listeners with one message, you'd leave them ringing in your ears from your research or years in the field of studying this around communication, what is it?

[Thomas Erikson]

I would say it's about being A high performer, actually. I'm not trying to be smart here, but regardless of what you're doing, regardless of where you're going, you need to focus. You actually have to focus. You have to have some sort of a laser shop focus. If you're trying to get better at whatever it is, a certain skill or learn something or understand everything about some sort of topic, whatever it is, you have to focus. You have to sort of take everything else out. What I have done for years is whenever I'm working on something, the same thing goes for understanding communication, learning how to treat a specific individual. I focus 100% on this specifically. I do nothing else. When I write a new book, I don't do anything else. I don't do podcasts, I don't do interviews, I don't travel, I don't do. You know, I close the door and say, this is my laser focus right now. And the same thing goes for communication. When you are communicating with the person, focus on that individual as sharply as you just is able to do. Are able to do. You see, I'm thinking in Swedish here. Don't try to fiddle with your phone. Don't read an email. Don't do anything. Instead of focusing on this individual. It doesn't matter if you have the time or not. If you said it's okay to have a conversation or you invited them in or and you start doing something else, no, you're going to mess it up and they're going to dislike you for it. Turn your smartphone upside down, leave it in your car, for Pete's sake. Don't even bring it in the room. It's going to steal your focus. You know, as for a recent study, if I may, if you have your phone on the table, it's going to take about 22% of your focus, even if it's turned off. Isn't that just. It's just crazy. It's absolutely crazy. Focus if you want to be a great communicator, if you want to reach this individual and really make them pay attention to you, focus listening with your ears. Don't interrupt, take notes. Fine. Don't scrabble on it. Don't do anything else. Instead of focusing on this individual, that's the best advice I can give. It have made me, frankly, millions, because I have really, really let people be who they are. I am the adapting part in my conversations. That is on me. That's on me. That's my responsibility, according to Thomas.

[Damien Hughes]

Well, Thomas, honestly, this has been an absolute privilege. I think what you've really been powerful at here, if you don't mind me observing, is you're the best role model for the message. The habits that you're preaching. You've adapted to the messages that we want and delivered it in such a succinct way.

[Thomas Erikson]

Thank you so much. I appreciate that.

[Damien Hughes]

Oh, it's been brilliant. Thank you.

[Thomas Erikson]

Thank you.

[Damien Hughes]

What conversation that was? If you take just three things from today's episode, let's make it these. Number one. Communication happens on the receiver's terms, not on yours. The sooner you can accept that people are different, they're not difficult, the sooner everything gets easier. The second point is close your mouth and open your ears. As Thomas said, only speak when you've got something of value to say. And when others speak, focus completely. Put your phone down, be present. That alone will transform your relationships. And its third point, Ask for feedback. It's the fastest path to becoming a better communicator. Ask people how they want to receive information. Ask them if you're making yourself clear. The answers will often surprise you and will help accelerate your growth. Remember, you don't need to be an extrovert or a natural communicator to master this skill. You just need to understand yourself, to recognise the patterns in others and then adapt deliberately. That's Thomas Ericsson's essential habit and it's one that will serve you for life. If you've enjoyed this episode, would you please do three things for us? First of all, subscribe so you never miss an episode. Secondly, share this with someone who may need to hear it. It could be a colleague who always seems to miss the point, or that family member that you struggle to connect with. And thirdly, consider leaving us a review. You'd be surprised how much it helps more high performers like you to find the show. You can find Thomas Erikson's book surrounded by idiots everywhere where books are sold. Trust me, it's worth your time. I'm Damien Hughes and this has been another episode of the Essential Habits of High Performance. Until next time, stay focused, stay curious and remember, those idiots aren't idiots. They're just not like you.

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