World No. 1 Poker Player: The Secret to Reading Body Language | Daniel Negreanu

Summary

Podcast Summary: High Performance Podcast

Episode Title: World No. 1 Poker Player – The Secret to Reading Body Language | Daniel Negreanu

Date: February 4, 2026
Host(s): Jake Humphrey and Damian Hughes
Guest: Daniel Negreanu

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Episode Overview

In this insightful episode, the hosts sit down with Daniel Negreanu, legendary poker player and six-time World Series of Poker champion, to explore the psychology behind high-stakes decision-making, the importance of reading body language, sustaining top performance over decades, and the mental and physical disciplines required to thrive in an ever-evolving, meritocratic environment. Negreanu’s reflections range from practical table strategies to broader life lessons about self-awareness, adaptability, and resilience.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining High Performance and the Role of Discipline

• Negreanu’s Definition: High performance is “hacking what works best for you to perform at whatever it is you do at the highest level.” For him, the foundation is sleep: “Sleep, which allows for focus, intensity, and all those things that encompass what it means to be at your best.” (01:45)
• Sleep and self-care out-rank even training and diet for sustaining focus in strenuous tournaments.

2. Skill vs. Luck in Poker (and in Life)

• “If we play one poker hand, it’s 50-50… If we play a thousand, it’s going to be me. Mostly. If we play 5 million, it’s never going to be you. Right? So it’s all about sample size. Luck in the short term plays a significant role, but in the long run, it evens out.” (02:12)
• Emphasizes the value of small, consistent advantages and the power of accumulated skill.

3. Decision-Making Under Uncertainty

• Unlike chess, where the best play is often fixed, poker demands blending theory with improvisation and interpreting human behavior:
  • “All these extra variables allow me to say, okay, in theory I should do this, but I have all this extra information about who you are, what you think of me, what I think you think of me, what I think of you.” (03:11)
• Transferable to negotiation or business: spot deception, read cues, adapt strategy.

4. Reading Body Language & Profiling Opponents

• At the Table:
  • “You’re paying attention and looking for anything that’s outside the norm… guy chewing gum… makes a big bet, stops chewing. I want to see that hand.”
  • Observes minute details – posture, breathing, chip-handling, where someone looks, even subconscious gestures. (04:31)
• Building Psychological Profiles:
  • Asks about profession/life: “You’re a lawyer… twisting the truth… maybe more willing to bluff. Sunday school teacher? May be conflicted about dishonesty.”
  • Recognizes people’s narratives about luck or skill as psychological leverage points. (05:55)

5. Information Gathering and Self-Presentation

• 1st Question to Ask: “What do you do for a living? Where are you from?” Simple, non-threatening – but the data is used to build a behavioral profile. (09:26)
• Managing Own Image:
  • “The more information I give you, I know what I gave you, I know what you know. And I also know how to throw a curveball.” (10:27)
  • Outward persona is the ‘laughing hyena’, while underneath he is an adaptable chameleon. (13:34)

6. The Meta-Game: Creating the Best Environment

• Contrasts his style with the ‘intense’ Phil Ivey:
  • “I want people casual. I want people laughing. I want people to put their guard down. I want them to feel safe and comfy… disarmed.” (15:18)
  • Uses self-deprecation, storytelling, humor to lower defenses and make others predictable.

7. Maintaining Focus and Cognitive Reserves

• “It is literally impossible for you to be at 100% the entire way through. So you have to pick and choose when it’s most important to have what I call hyper focus… Save that for when I’m fresh, engaged, and able to do so.” (17:48)
• Sleep and periodic disengagement are critical.
• Outside poker, video games and meditation as tools for mental sharpness. (19:02)

8. Adapting to Age and Sustaining High Performance

• No fixed age where skills decline. Now, more focus on structured physical fitness and respecting the “undefeated” forces of aging – scheduling rest, bracing for each season’s toll. (19:48, 22:07)
• “Sleep is by far the most important part of being successful at playing poker.” (24:01)

9. Mindset Towards Risk and Money

• “I never cared about money. Which frees me up in terms of risk because I don’t really care. This sounds fun. I’m going to do it.” (24:49)
• Now, prioritizes prestige and fun over pure financial gain.

10. Adapting to a Changing Game & Humility

• From old-school face-to-face play to today’s online, AI-aided, data-driven generation:
  • “The day you think you’ve reached the top is the exact moment in poker where you start to be surpassed by others when you stop working.” (29:48)
  • Views self-awareness and humility as central: “I hired two guys to coach me on using the software because I’m not a computer guy.”
• Quote: “Confidence is key… but you also have to be introspective… Mutual respect.” (37:31)

11. Handling Ego and Opponents’ Mind Games

• On braggadocious opponents:
  • “When people tell you how great they are and it’s not other people saying it, usually they’re not so great.” (38:56)
  • Ego is “typically insecurity.” Uses this as an exploit; prefers to disarm, tease, rather than meet force with force.

12. Goal Setting, Reflection, and Personal Growth

• “I’m a big believer in making sure your goals scare you a little bit. Like you’re not sure you’d be able to accomplish them.” (41:10)
• “Look back and say… What worked? What didn’t work? Self-limiting beliefs… you can change your story.” (41:10)

13. Legacy and Advice To His Younger Self

• Wishes to be remembered for “longevity… always willing to adjust and always stood the test of time and whatever came at him was still able to be relevant at the highest levels.” (43:06)
• Advice to a teenage Daniel: “Make sure that you live your life… you’re only going to be a teenager once… If this is something that you really want to do, understand it’s going to be a sacrifice… But it can wait. There’s no rush. Live your life.” (43:37)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On mistakes:
  • “I look at mistakes. I’m excited about mistakes because mistakes are an opportunity. Whenever you have a breakdown, that’s an opportunity for a breakthrough.” (00:02, 35:22)
• On self-motivation:
  • “I kind of love haters in a way… Haters fuel me. For like 30 years I keep hearing, he’s washed up, can’t win no more. I’m like, oh yeah, watch this.” (34:27)
• On ego vs. humility:
  • “If you just walk into every table saying, I’m the greatest… that’s going to be a blinder for you because you’re going to miss stuff.” (37:31)
• On identity and adaptability:
  • “Outward persona is a laughing hyena… but underneath, it’s really a chameleon who’s very adaptable and always, like, able to change based on perception.” (13:34)
• On the golden rule:
  • “There’s one person you should trust above all else, and that’s yourself.” (46:38)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:02 – Opening philosophy: Using doubt and criticism as motivation
• 01:45 – Daniel’s personal definition of high performance
• 02:12 – Skill vs. luck in poker
• 03:11 – Differences between poker and chess; using people-reading to adapt
• 04:31 – Examples of “tells” and collecting behavioral data
• 05:55 – Profiling based on off-table conversation
• 09:26 – Opening questions and non-intrusive profiling
• 10:27 – How Daniel uses self-presentation as a tactical weapon
• 13:34 – Persona as a socially disarming “laughing hyena”
• 15:18 – Contrasting Daniel’s table-side approach with Phil Ivey
• 17:48 – Strategies for focusing attention and cognitive resource management
• 19:02 – The role of sleep, meditation, and videogames
• 24:49 – Relationship to risk and the importance of playing for fun, not money
• 29:48 – Adapting to new generations in poker; need for humility and learning
• 34:04 – “Silk pajamas” quote and secrets to staying motivated after success
• 35:22 – On using mistakes as learning opportunities
• 41:10 – Goal setting, overcoming self-limiting beliefs
• 43:06 – Daniel’s view on legacy
• 43:37 – Advice to his teenage self
• 44:04 – The one hand he wishes he could play again
• 44:53 – His non-negotiable behaviors: integrity and honesty
• 46:38 – Daniel’s golden rule for high performance: trust yourself

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Three Non-Negotiable Behaviors (44:53)

1. Be impeccable with your word (“If you say you’re going to be somewhere at 7pm and you show up at 7:04, you were late.”)
2. Honesty (and loyalty)
3. (Daniel admits he struggles to define a third, feeling the above two are so key.)

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Lessons for High Performance (Throughout)

• Self-awareness and humility power continuous adaptation.
• Mistakes are not failures, but catalysts for growth.
• Recovery and rest are as important as training and action.
• True confidence is quiet and works in the background; bluster is often a mask for insecurity.
• Goal setting should push comfort zones.
• Longevity in any field comes from continual learning, reflection, and adjustment.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a rich, nuanced dive into the inner life of an elite performer. Daniel Negreanu uses poker as a lens to examine high performance, strategy, psychology, and self-mastery—not just at the card table, but in any venture that demands sustained excellence, reading people, and adapting to change.

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End of summary.

Transcript

[Daniel Negreanu]

I find that whenever I'm doubted, you know, it brings out the best in me. Some people crumble under pressure or, you know, criticism. I'm the opposite. I like it. I'm like, okay, bring it on. You know, I kind of enjoy that. It motivates me to just be a better version of myself, you know, especially if there's any, any points in my career, I'm like, you know what? They're kind of right. I need to work harder. I need to be better. So I look at mistakes. I'm excited about mistakes because mistakes are an opportunity.

[Interviewer]

That is the voice of Daniel Negrano, one of the greatest poker players who's ever lived. We traveled to his home in late Las Vegas, just outside of Sin City itself, to understand what it takes to master perhaps the most meritocratic game in the world. Think about it. Poker doesn't demand physical gifts or privileged connections. Age is no barrier. If you can master that unique blend of skill and luck, you can compete at the highest level. Daniel's done precisely that. He's a Hall of Famer with career earnings exceeding a phenomenal $50 million at the tables. But what fascinated us wasn't his success, it was how he sustained it across decades. In a game that's constantly evolving, where one wrong read can cost you everything. In this conversation, we're going to explore the psychology of high stakes decision making, the discipline required to stay at the top, and the lessons from poker that apply far beyond the tables. This is Daniel Negreanu on High Performance. Daniel, thank you for being here. On High Performance, what is high performance to you?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Well, for me, high performance is sort of hacking what works best for you to perform at whatever it is you do at the highest level. And so for me, with poker, that requires sleep. First and foremost, sleep, which allows for focus, intensity, and all those things that encompass what it means to be at your best.

[Interviewer]

For people watching this that maybe are not familiar with the game of poker, how much of it is skill and how much of it is luck?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Let's say you and I, we played one poker hand, right? Well, it's 50. 50, right? It's going to be you or me. Well, now, if we play 10, it's going to be me. A little more than you. We play a thousand, it's going to be me. Mostly, if we play 5 million, it's never going to be you, Right? So it's all about sample size. Luck in the short term plays a very significant role, but in the long run, the standard deviation eventually gets to a place where, you know, it evens out. And if you are making better decisions, on average, you're, you know, you're going to be the one that comes way ahead.

[Interviewer]

Brilliant. So let's then talk about some of those decision making skills then, because that's what I think we want to explore in more detail. Because if you compare poker to a game of chess, I think poker is more replicable outside of the sport in terms of life into. Because chess, you're playing by a set of rules that we can all see poker, there's often information that we've not got access to. So what would you say are some of the key strategies then of being successful, of coming out on top more times than not?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Yeah, you know, you bring up a good point about the difference between chess and poker. Because in chess there's a right answer. This is the best play. We know that it doesn't really matter what your opponent's doing. You know, there's a search engine, computers have solved it. There's just right and wrong answers. With poker, the answers vary. We do have, you know, advanced AI now in poker, so you can use it, but it's only effective if you assume you're going to be up against other robots, but you're not. You play against people. Right. So while a robot or while the right answer in theory might be for me to like, bluff you, okay, I should bluff you in this spot. What if I know that you don't believe me, you think I'm full of it, so you call way too much. What if I notice physically that before, you know, the flop came, you looked at your chips and you told me that you like something. So all these extra variables allow me to say, okay, in theory I should do this, but I have all this extra information about who you are, what you think of me, what I think you think of me, what I think of you. All these extra things in poker which translate to business and life and all those things. Like you think about making a business deal and someone says something and if you can get a read, you get a sense of whether they're telling the truth or not. Oh, yeah, no, we had a great quarter. We were up this, this and this and this. And then he looks away and you're like, okay, he's full of it. They're not doing so hot. That's really important across all domains.

[Interviewer]

So go on, let's explore that in more detail about getting a read on somebody. What are you looking for?

[Daniel Negreanu]

So when you're looking for a read at poker table, it's a little bit different than in life. But at the poker table, really, what you're doing is you're paying attention and looking for anything that's outside the norm, right? And then you take the data point and say, okay, let's use gum chewing, for example, guys. Chewing gum. Chewing gum. Chewing gum. Makes a big bet. Stops chewing. Okay, I want to see that hand. If he was bluffing, right? I'm going to keep watching. Like, an hour later, he's chewing gum. Chewing gum, keeps on chewing. Okay, well, this time he had it. So now I've got in my database a very small sample of, like, this guy. Maybe when he stops chewing gum, that means he's weak. That's a very, like, obvious example, right? But there's subtle things like posture, what your eyes do, where you look, your breathing tendencies, even the way that you put your chips in the pot. We're looking for every little angle and little different thing. When people see the flop and they like what they see, subconsciously, they don't even know they do this. The first thing they do, they look at the chips because subconsciously they say, ooh, ooh, I like this, I like this. I need to bet chips. So they're preemptively looking. So when you see that, beware, because that means that they're coming.

[Interviewer]

This reminds me of that famous research from a guy called Albert Mehrabian back in the 1960s that said, when we meet somebody, we're listening to the words, the music, and the dance. So what they tell us, what we can see looking at the chips, and then how they make us feel. So I'm interested if you can break it down into those three parts. So what is it that somebody might say that gives you a tell on them?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Well, just generally speaking, what I like to do in order to, like, get a profile on somebody is I don't even ask him about poker stuff. Right. I'm asking, like, what do you do for a living? Okay, well, you're a lawyer. Okay, so he's a lawyer. What does he spend the majority of his time doing? Twisting the truth, being deceitful, lying, you know, doing whatever he can to win, scheming. So I'm thinking, all right, against this guy, I've already got a little bit of a clue. What do you do? Oh, I'm a Sunday school teacher. Maybe she's conflicted about dishonesty and bluffing, so she's going to play it straight. So, yeah. So I'm always just looking for things outside of the game to kind of create like different, you know, Persona and player profiles. But anything someone says, oh, I'm going through a rough divorce, I know I'm. Or people, there's another one. Let's say, for example, a guy talks about how unlucky they are right now. I have a very deadly weapon against them because they're already psychologically broken, right? So when a card comes that they think might beat them and you bet big, they'll be like, of course I lose to a flush. He always gets there when I don't have anything at all. They're so committed to the idea that they're unlucky. They see that card and they believe it. And they believe, well, of course he got there and has the best hand. When in reality I've got nothing. Most all in one hr systems are a patchwork of disconnected and manual tools. Rippling is totally automated. If you promote an employee, Rippling can automatically handle necessary updates from payroll taxes and provisioning new app permissions to assigning required manager training. That's why Rippling is the 1 rated human capital management suite on G2, TrustRadius and Gartner. If you're ready to run the backbone of your business on one unified platform, head to rippling.com acastbiz and sign up today. Today. That's R-I P P L-I-N-.com acastbiz to sign up.

[Interviewer]

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[Daniel Negreanu]

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[Daniel Negreanu]

So.

[Interviewer]

Do you have a killer question when you meet somebody that almost unlocks these kind of tells?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Yeah, honestly, the first and like the first question that starts the conversation is, what do you do for a living? Where are you from? Just as basic as whatever. Because it's not a threatening question, right. If I asked you that, you wouldn't think, oh, no, he's trying to get in my head, just being friendly, which I am. I'd like to get to know you, but the more I know about you, the more I'll be able to pick you apart.

[Interviewer]

So when you play somebody that you might have played against for a long time, do they tend to be a little bit more circumspect about what they give you?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Yeah. Here's the thing, right? At the highest levels, the top pros, they give far less away. It's very, very subtle, the things you'll find. Right. So at the lower limits, you know, with new players and stuff, there's a lot of stuff they don't even realize that they're giving away. But again, at the highest levels, most people, especially today, you know, they've watched themselves on TV and they see the things that they do. So maybe they try to mask that, be a little bit more robotic in their movements and, you know, everything like that.

[Interviewer]

So what do you do when people are asking you the questions of, hey, how are you? How's life going? How's life at home? How do you protect yourself while still giving this veneer of being friendly?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Yeah, I don't mind giving information away. Right. I've probably uniquely have more of my hands on television or YouTube or whatever than anybody else. So my entire career has been about adjusting to what people think about me. So the more information I give you, I know what I gave you, I know what you know. And I also know how to throw.

[Interviewer]

A curveball to tell us about that.

[Daniel Negreanu]

Sometimes people encounter me and they think, okay, he's just full of it all the time. He bluffs A lot. Right. Other people might think he never bluffs at all. It's my job to figure out who's who. Depending on what shows they watched, how long they've been around in poker, little subtle things they might say, you know, I would have, you know, I'm not going to call you with this hand, okay? That means you don't think I bluff great. So I'm going to exploit you in that regard.

[Interviewer]

I recently interviewed a Pulitzer Prize winning author, a guy called Charles Duhigg that's written a book called Super Communicators on this. And one of his great techniques of opening people up is what he calls asking deep questions. Do you have any deep questions that then force them to reveal a little bit about their values or what's important to them?

[Daniel Negreanu]

So the thing you have to be careful about, especially at the poker table, is it's a friendly, superficial environment. There's eight or other people at the table. So if you come at somebody with something deep, right, that's going to put their guard up and be defensive. It's uncomfortable for most people to be sort of interrogated, you know, or ask some really deep questions about their family life and things like that. If the door is open. And this is how I started, just with the, you know, generic questions, you know, then we will go deep just about. And really for me, you know, how, how have you been running in poker? Like, you know, have you been doing well? Yeah, and when people are doing well, they're going to be more confident, play better and, you know, often they'll tell me the spiel about how horrible it's been and, you know, how unlucky they are and these sort of things. So that's about as deep as you want to go at the poker table. Away from the table, you know, you can find out more about people, but I just set the right environment for it. You know, somebody on the spot like that. It's not like a therapist's couch.

[Interviewer]

My background is in boxing and there's an old saying in boxing that the fight doesn't start on the night of the fight, the fight starts months before it. When you meet these guys at press conferences or at the weigh ins, as it gets a little bit closer. When does the game of poker start for you then?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Yeah, no, that's a great analogy with boxing because, yeah, for me it's similar in the terms of like, you know, like I'm doing this interview right now. I know who's gonna, I know some people are gonna watch it, some people are gonna Hear it. Some people are gonna understand what I'm giving away. So I always have to constantly be willing to adjust. But I know what I'm giving and I know how to manipulate it, right? So the poker game is always happening for me, whether I'm at the table or otherwise. I was. My wife, she was telling me, we were sitting there at dinner once and I was giving away information. She's like, why do you tell him all this stuff? And I said, honey, trust me, I know what I'm telling him. And I'm telling him this stuff for a reason. Because I'm going to take advantage of him because I want to tame him. He is a lion. I don't want him coming to attack me. So I'm going to act like prey, you know, or I'm going to act like somebody who, you know, doesn't want to go to war with them. So everything I tell people about my game and stuff is, for the most part, calculated.

[Interviewer]

I was reading a book in preparation for this where it was about different names and titles that guys will often attribute to themselves. Some people see themselves as lions, some will see themselves as cheaters. How would you describe yourself then, as an operator?

[Daniel Negreanu]

It's funny because, you know, my outward Persona is a laughing hyena because I'm always just giggly laugh, like I don't know what's going on and stuff like that. But underneath, it's really a chameleon who's very adaptable and always, like, able to change based on perception. Right. I think the most important skill set is self awareness. Right. Understand how people perceive you and then you can take advantage of them in that regard. But you have to know how. So there's many different gears, there's many different choices in terms of what strategies you're going to use. And for me, what's most important is what is going to be most effective against this person. Right. If I teach poker, I teach poker generically. This is how you play the game now, when there's seven people at the table, okay? This is how I play against him, her, him, him. All different, Right? So that's where the chameleon part comes in.

[Interviewer]

Love that. And how do you index this? Like, how do you capture this information? Do you go away and make notes on it?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Well, I'll tell you what's. You know, there's been an invention called the iPhone, right? So what I do now is I go in my phone and I take notes. So I'll have player notes based on physical tells, even tendencies and things that I've noticed or historically, like, what I did against this player and what they did in response and how I can take advantage of it. So I keep notes in that regard because, you know, the reason for that is sometimes, let's say I played with you in 2022. It's been a while. Let me just check. Ah, that's right. Okay, so when he bites his lips, that means this, right? And then I have that available. And people do change over time, so they're not necessarily reliable. But having that notepad is my version of, like, intense study.

[Interviewer]

I've read in the past that you talk about being almost like, more a lover than a fighter, which fits with that laughing hyena analogy you used. How do you want people to feel when you come to the table?

[Daniel Negreanu]

So that's a great question. And, like, I look at. So the contrast to me is Phil Ivey. Okay? Phil Ivey is very Tiger Woods, Michael Jordanes intense. He wants everybody uncomfortable, hence, and, you know, afraid. Right. I go the opposite way. I want people casual. I want people laughing. I want people to put their guard down. I want them to feel safe and comfy. I'll often. Let's say I'm in a hand against you and, you know, I'm making a decision. I'll often start talking to the dealer and be like, what did I do to myself? I'm so stupid. Why did I even think about. And. But really, I'm looking at you the entire time while you giggle and laugh because you don't feel like I'm looking at you. I'm not one of those that's super intense and stares people down like this. Like, some. I want people to be disarmed, right? And then use some charm in order to, like, beat them so that when they leave, they laugh and they giggle and they go, hey, what happened to all my chips?

[Interviewer]

There's an old saying that, like, you can always slip an idea in when somebody's laughing. What are you doing that gets them? So when they lower their defenses, they. How does that relate to being a competitive advantage to you?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Well, see, I'm very comfortable on camera. I've been on camera for most of my poker career, and even before that, I know some of my opponents are not right. So now they're in my realm, if you will. So I get to control the conversation, I get to control the energy, control the sort of meta of how the game's going and kind of force people out of their comfort zone. And just by default, you know, that is a benefit for Me, sometimes, you know, you have a bunch of people being jovial, telling stories, drinking wine, relax, having fun, and other times it might be an uncomfortable environment. Maybe people don't like each other, and it's very tense and it's very dark and it's very serious. Right. Those are the environments. I find them actually more in Europe, to be honest with you. A lot of the European payers are just like, you know, they want to play stonewall, like, not fun and engaging. So my job is to try to loosen them up. I want to set the table in such a way that benefits me. Right. And the tense, you know, dark thing, that doesn't work. I like it to be relaxed, and so I do my best. And again, sometimes when people are wearing headphones and not paying attention, it's a little bit more of a trying task. And sometimes I give up and say, okay, well, I can play it straight too.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, now that's a word. I'm interested because you've used that word three times in our chat so far. Attention. Now, we know that attention is a finite resource. How do you get yourself in a place where you can give that amount of intense attention to the other people around the table? The environment, the energy, that seems to take up an awful lot of cognitive resource to then be able to play effectively. So what do you do to put yourself in the best place to do that?

[Daniel Negreanu]

So I've learned over whatever 30 years of playing poker that it is literally impossible for you to be at 100% the entire way through. So you have to pick and choose when it's most important to have what I call. I told my wife, I call it hyper focus. Right? Okay. And for me, if I'm sitting down at a table with a player I've never seen before, and I don't know them, hyper focus. Because I need to get a. An idea of what they're like and what they play. Like if I'm playing at a table, people, I've played, you know, 100 times and stuff like that, maybe I can sort of sit back a little bit and kind of go into autopilot and not need to be that hyper focused. The way a tournament goes is the intensity ramps up. You start with whatever thousand players or something like that. As you get deeper and deeper and closer and closer, the adrenaline starts to kick in and the intensity just, you know, but I. But I. But I've saved up. Like, I take that time in between. Once I know a table, I. I'll take a little bit of a break. I also Know, sometimes if we're playing a four or five day event, let's say it's late 1am we're playing for another two hours. All right, maybe I'm tired here. Let's relax. Just going to go on autopilot. And when I say autopilot, that still means playing good poker. Right. What it does mean though, is not trying to find that, you know, maybe like that super small edge and take a really big risk. I save that for when I'm fresh engaged and, you know, able to do so.

[Interviewer]

So then what do you do to go and replenish that focus bank?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Really the best and only way to replenish the focus bank is sleep. I do think meditation helps as well, and it has varying effects for different people. Like for some people it just doesn't do much. For me, I. I do like a red light LED bed anytime I feel like I need to unwind. I've always found video games, whether it's chess or other games. Yeah. Have benefits. I think there's sort of a negative connotation with the idea of like playing games. And I think the opposite is likely true in some ways. Obviously you become an obsession, you know, that's hurtful in your life. But I think especially getting into older age, you know, with cognitive decline and stuff, playing games is one way to keep yourself sharp.

[Interviewer]

Having been in the game for 30 years, is there a moment where you think for players they start to taper off?

[Daniel Negreanu]

So historically popular belief was that around the age of 40 is where you're at your peak and then you have decline from there. Okay, I don't know if that's true anymore. I don't know if that, that's just a number that people would throw out. Yeah, I definitely feel like there is an element of physical fatigue that does play a role as you get older. And that's sort of where I'm looking at for this year in terms of cutting back, like realizing that I'm not 23 anymore. I can't play for three straight days and be fresh and ready to go. So respecting the undefeated age, you know, like it does, it's undefeated. So under. So understanding how to best utilize the time that I have and you know, when I'm feeling fatigued, make sure that I'm not playing.

[Interviewer]

And how much of your game then is linked to your physical fitness? Because that's an area that we often maybe underestimate because we think it's a game of using your cognitive thinking skills.

[Daniel Negreanu]

I think when you think historically about what a Poker player looked like. You see a guy who's overweight, smoking a cigarette, having a, you know, having Jack Daniels and eating a donut with fried chicken or something like that.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Daniel Negreanu]

And that was kind of what poker was in the 80s and 90s. Today, fast forward, you know, several decades at the highest levels, you see guys like eating grass fed, organic, you know, like training, doing all the blood tests in the gym and stuff like that. So you're starting to see a shift in that regard. And I do think, especially with tournaments, they can be grueling. The World Series of poker is seven weeks where I'm putting in 12 to 14 hours per day. Right. So when you're not physically fit going into it, you know, that can lead to some, I think fatigue can play, you know, a negative role in that. So what I do typically is before the World Series for about six weeks, I get very structured in a training and exercise program and just like try to get lean because I know during the series that's going to falter and I'm not going to have time to keep up with it. And at 1am when you're tired, you don't want a broccoli, carrot salad, you know, you want chocolate covered nachos with popcorn and you know, all the nasty, you know, you don't want. And then, so I just give into that during, during that series I just, I allow myself the debauchery of knowing I'm gonna put myself through the wringer because I know when it's over, I know I have the discipline to get back in shape.

[Interviewer]

Wow. Okay, so you almost prepared that you're gonna get out of shape so you get in shape to do precisely that?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Yeah, I mean, I'm about to start, we got about a week here and then I'm going to get in the gym and go hard and just, you know, because I usually gain anywhere from 8 to 10 pounds during the world Series and it's not good weight.

[Interviewer]

And what do you say to yourself, like when you look at yourself in the mirror during that time and you look at yourself looking more tired or haggard or you've, you've gained weight, do you treat yourself kindly?

[Daniel Negreanu]

I do, because I've accepted it beforehand. You know, this isn't something that's out of my hands. It's not out of my plan. This was all part of the program. It's an understanding of when you're tired. There's plenty of studies that prove this. When you're tired, your body craves sugar. That's what it Wants it, wants it, it needs it. I give it to it. I'll give it what it needs, knowing full well that again, that's part of what I've dedicated myself to for seven weeks. And that's not the end of the plan. When that's over, I know I'm gonna go back to doing a six to eight week program. Like I've sort of perfected six to eight week program of getting to where I wanna be and, you know, sort of going in and out.

[Interviewer]

Describe a day for us.

[Daniel Negreanu]

Yeah. So basically, I mean, in a nutshell, you know, for the six weeks or eight weeks, I'll be doing about 1800-1850 in terms of calories per day. I'll be doing weight training six days a week. I do like splits, three days, three days and then one day off and then I'll do as far as cardio goes, just really, just walking, making sure I get 10 to 15,000 steps every day and rinse, repeat. And that usually has me losing about one and one to one and a half pounds a week. So over six weeks, you know, I'm looking at 10 to 12 pounds and I'm feeling a little stronger. And then I'm ready for the World.

[Interviewer]

Series when it starts. What do you do? Like, do you, do you move out of home? Do you move into a place that facilitates you being able to go and do those long intense hours?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Well, this is the first year that I'll be far away. You know, normally my house was about 17 minutes, 20 minutes. Now we're looking at a 40 minute drive because I moved out to the lake.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Daniel Negreanu]

So I always have a break room there, like for breaks so that, you know, I can unwind and relax a little bit. But for this one, I'm going to get a room for the entirety of the series. And my plan, and I've told my wife this is anytime I have to get up and play the next morning because I'm still in an event, I'm just going to stay there. Right, right. And have the convenience. And it makes a difference too, because every hour that you can shave off, you know, travel or whatever the case may be before getting to bed is, is super crucial because I like by far, like there's number two level of importance, there's number one, sleep, then everything else is way down here. It is the most important part of being successful at playing poker.

[Interviewer]

So now can we talk about when you get into the weeds of the World Series of when you're playing? I'm interested in understanding your Relationship with risk.

[Daniel Negreanu]

Well, my relationship with risk, I mean, I'll tell you this, I never cared about money. I never did as a teenager. And my goal was just I loved the game, I love to play. The goal of making money was so I could play higher and higher stakes. So I've never been obsessed with money. I've never cared that much. Which frees me up in terms of risk because I don't really care. This sounds fun. I'm going to do it. And I'm in a place now, frankly, I'm 49. In terms of gigantic risks. I don't do that anymore. When you're 23, what's the risk? So what, you lost your $3,000 bankroll? Big deal. That's replenishable. The one that I have now is not all that easily replenished. So I'm, you know, and again there's really, I don't have any sort of ego driven ideas of having to play, go over to Macau and play, you know, for 10, $20 million or anything like that. I'm comfortable and happy with what I have now.

[Interviewer]

That's an interesting comment you made though about never caring about money. I can understand how that must feel incredibly liberating when, when you're up against it. But I'm interested then in when you get the invitation to a tournament or you're in a particular game even what's the decision making gates that you pass through before deciding that first of all you're going to compete.

[Daniel Negreanu]

Well, first and foremost the events I choose is based on prestige and fun. I always played video games as a kid, right? So now I am my own video game. I control the character I choose, which events I can play. I'm looking to make history, accumulate world championships and things like that. And the World Series of Poker is the pinnacle since 1970. It is the premier brand. It is the one, it is summer camp for poker players. So the decision is easy. Now what I typically do is I prioritize larger buying events which have less people, which to some degree increases your chances of success. But again it's not directly related to the money. I'm a big believer, I'm firmly believe in this is whatever profession people choose, if they do so because they think oh this will be great because I'll make a lot of money. Yeah, they're so less likely to be successful than they do this because oh my God, I love doing this. So you love doing this. You continue to do it because you love it. And as a, as a result a byproduct is you end up making a lot of money. When people say, I want to be a famous actor because you get rich, well, you're probably not going to be very good at it, is my guess.

[Interviewer]

When you talk about wanting to do the most prestigious events, is that not a dangerous place? Because your ego's creeping in there about the idea of wanting to be the world champion to establish a legacy.

[Daniel Negreanu]

Here's the thing, though. The most prestigious tournaments, now, that's where I belong, right? That's where my career is. In my early 20s, I played everything, you know, I was trying to build. I was trying to get to that point where I could retire, if you will. Now I just play the ones that I want to. And for me, the World Series of Poker is the most prestigious. It is the most fun, you know, and it's the seven weeks of the year that I dedicate and I, you know, I look forward to. And it's like as soon as it's over, even though you're exhausted, it's been seven weeks, all you want to do is do it all over again.

[Interviewer]

Do you get people that come into you asking for you to mentor them and pay it forward?

[Daniel Negreanu]

I do, yeah. And actually, there is a kid now, a young kid we sort of picked out of obscurity, a kid named Jeremy Becker, who he's just playing these $200 tournaments around town, and we start to notice, you know, he's having some success. I said, you know what, like in the movie Rocky, let's give this kid a shot. So then I started to put him in some tournaments, and he's, you know, he's doing quite well. And this summer, I have a big bet on him. I mean, I bet on him against some other kid, and it's going to be a fun narrative throughout the summer.

[Interviewer]

Oh, that'll be good.

[Daniel Negreanu]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And like Rocky, you're now like Mickey. He's coaching the corner.

[Daniel Negreanu]

Yeah, something like that.

[Interviewer]

So what advice are you going to give him when he goes into that big tournament?

[Daniel Negreanu]

The thing I think he struggles with most is dealing with bad luck. You know, mentally, you know, he still shows up, but it is a very stressful game to play. Like, you can do everything right, make all the right decisions, and you still lose. Right. That's very difficult for people to deal with, especially with tournaments where you rarely win, you usually are going to lose all your chips. So just keeping them on track and keeping them upbeat and understand that, like, buddy, you're going to get through this because you're a champion. And I have faith in them.

[Interviewer]

That is like Mickey, isn't it?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Yeah, for sure. You're a champion king. Eat lightning and spit out thunder.

[Interviewer]

When you were making your way up then, was it a different game? So when you first started it, what would you say is the big difference between turning up for the World Series today?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Well, the game evolves, the game changes. You know, everything changes. In terms with AI and solvers and a new breed of poker player, I'd say probably the biggest difference is, you know, 20, 30 years ago, if I didn't know who you were, chances are you weren't very good. Because where would you have practiced today? You know, people play online. You know, they play on GG Poker, and they get a lot of hands in playing online poker. So sometimes I might sit with a guy I've never seen before, but he's an expert, you know, and that's probably the biggest change is certainly, like, now there are some people who, you know, can get to, like, a very high level without having to play, you know, daily against me.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Well, I think that's what's remarkable about you, Daniel, that you've adapted to those changes. And I think there's some lessons you can teach our audience around. How do you adapt to an industry that's changing around you?

[Daniel Negreanu]

I think two things. First and foremost, self awareness. Right again, I've used that before. But the reason for that is you have to be aware of, like, you're good, right? But are you better than these guys right now? And if not, you have to go with number two, which is humility, which is to say, okay, you know what? I need to go back in the lab. And for myself, for example, I hired two guys to coach me on using the software because I'm not a computer and a guy, I don't even know how to turn this stuff on. So I wanted to understand what the young kids were learning. Early on in my career, when I was a young up and comer, I remember sitting with the guys who were at the top at the time, and I'm thinking to myself, I'm better than you now. But you're complacent. You're like, oh, I've reached the pinnacle. The day you think you've reached the top is the exact moment in poker where you start to be surpassed by others when you stop working.

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[Interviewer]

That reminds me of a quote from a book that I, I wrote many years ago. I wrote a book on a, on a boxer called Marvin Hagler. He was a world super middleweight champion and he had this great quote that he said, it's hard to get up and run when you're wearing silk pajamas.

[Daniel Negreanu]

That's my favorite quote. I use that all the time. Oh my God, it's my favorite. One of my favorite quotes. I use it all the time.

[Interviewer]

So how do you get up and run when you're wearing silk pajamas? You've, you know, you've achieved a level of fame and prestige and wealth that means that you don't have to employ coaches, you don't have to learn new technologies, you don't have to take on all these up and coming challenges if you don't want to. So what does get you up and run?

[Daniel Negreanu]

So one of the things that I'm unique in is I've always been easily self motivated. Like I always find new challenges and I enjoy like part of what is makes life enjoyable for me is goal setting, you know, finding new ways in which I want to like prove people wrong. I kind of love haters in a way because haters fuel me for like 30 years. I keep hearing about, oh, he's washed up, he can't win no more. I'm like, oh yeah, watch this. You know, and so that's sort of something that's always driven me. But also the other thing I do too is I cut back. You know, I make sure now that I'm only playing when I really feel like it, when I want to. Because if I don't, like last year I had not a great year partly in because I was playing too much and just kind of going through the motions where I didn't care enough. So the breaks in between are super crucial. You know, I'll play seven weeks, like I'm not going to play a hand of poker in the next six, seven weeks so that I'm just fresh and ready and can't wait to go play.

[Interviewer]

Okay, you spoke of the haters, that you actually love them. Explain more on that.

[Daniel Negreanu]

I find that whenever I'm doubted, you know, it brings out the best in me. Some people crumble under pressure or, you know, criticism. I'm the opposite. I like it. I'm like, okay, bring it on. You know, I kind of enjoy that. It motivates me to just be a better version of myself, you know, especially if there's any. Any points in my career, I'm like, you know what? They're kind of right. I need to work harder. I need to be better, because these guys are, you know, learning things that I haven't. And the more you see the same thing, the more apt you are to be like, make better decisions. So I look at mistakes. I'm excited about mistakes, okay? Because mistakes are an opportunity. Whenever you have, like, a breakdown, that's an opportunity for a breakthrough where I'm like, aha. Okay, so here. This is what I can do here in this spot. Ah, we figured it out. So now the next time I'm approached with a similar situation, I have, like, new tools that I can use that, you know, sort of plug. We call it plugging leaks, if you. You will.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Daniel Negreanu]

I've been doing this for 30 years, so I've developed enough wisdom to know, all right, this new thing that I'm doing has really been effective. The main driver of, like, learning usually comes from when things aren't going well. I find that's true of a lot of things, right? When things are going well, you're having success. There's not a lot. It doesn't feel all that, you know, important to work on stuff because you're already there, you're doing great. When things turn for you and they're not working as well, that's when you want to, like, look at the adjustments necessary.

[Interviewer]

So can you take us to a moment when things weren't going well? What did you do and how did you make the adjustment?

[Daniel Negreanu]

I remember, I don't know if it was 2016 or something, but there was this whole new German contingent of player that started playing. And I remember a few hands at the Poker Masters, this guy named Stefan Sondheimer, he just completely outplayed me, like he was just playing better than me. And it was very evident to me. And they were discussing poker in a way that I'd never heard before. They were talking about combos. So what is a combo? Right? And then that sort of was an epiphany for me. Like, there's so much I don't know about what they're learning. And that sent me down a path of saying, all right, so I'm gonna hire some coaches, teach me about this stuff, you know? And that's where the humility comes in. The self awareness to say, okay, these guys played better than you. It wasn't just luck, right? Now, the humility to say, okay, teach me.

[Interviewer]

So when you talk about the humility, how else does that show up?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Well, I think humility, like, with poker, is, like, again, super important. You know, I think anytime confidence is key, right? If you don't have your confidence at poker, you're dead. But you also have to be introspective and say, okay, well, you know, you're great, but so are they. You have to have a mutual respect for that player, because if you underestimate them, you know you're going to make poor decisions against them. And if you just walk into every table saying, I'm the greatest, it doesn't matter what they do, I'm the best, you know, that's going to be a blinder for you because you're going to miss stuff that could potentially make you, you know, perform even better.

[Interviewer]

But do you have opponents that do that?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Oh, yeah. You mean that just have big egos like that?

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Daniel Negreanu]

There's one who's been around for a very long time, very accomplished players, names Phil Hellmuth. And he sort of goes in with this bravado about how he's the best. He's always going to be the best, doesn't study, doesn't learn anything. You know, he's very condescending, you know, in a humorous way, as far as I'm concerned. Very condescending to his peers about how their kids, you know, they don't know anything. And, you know, and there's just so many things that I think he could improve upon, but he has no willingness to do that. Like, he cannot. He doesn't. He cannot allow for his ego to ever, like, think that he could learn something from somebody else, ever.

[Interviewer]

I'm always interested in this because I'm the sort of person that I can imagine being psyched out a little bit by somebody like that that's coming in and telling me how good they are. So how do you bully, proof yourself against it while also still keeping that radar switched on to realize that's a potential weakness that they demonstrated when people.

[Daniel Negreanu]

Tell you how great they are and it's not other people saying it, usually they're not so great. Like, when I think back to Michael Jordan and Tiger woods and them, I never heard them say, I'm the greatest. Everyone else did. So if you're coming in here, I'm the best. I'm the best. I usually just laugh because I know where that comes from. What I gather from that is you're incredibly insecure. Your arrogance comes from somewhere, and it's typically insecurity. Right. So I'm going to use that to my advantage. I'm going to poke you. I'm going to actually tear you down. I'm gonna say, no, you're not. You're not the best. You're not even winning at this table. These guys are all better than you because now what you've done is you've challenged their ego, you've disarmed them. They're just gonna come back at you, and I'm just gonna laugh at them. Which is probably the worst response anyone in that environment wants to hear is being laughed at.

[Interviewer]

Who's kryptonite for you, though, on the poker table, which personality type presents you with the biggest difficulties?

[Daniel Negreanu]

I'd say the ones that I find the most annoying to play with, and I think they're a detriment to the game, are the ones that, like, completely cover up sunglasses, hoodie, headphones, and they're very slow, and they take, like, 30 seconds to act. It's like, it works for them. And part of it does annoy me because it's taking the game out of a rhythm. And like I said earlier, I want to create a sort of a metagame of fun and jovial and relaxed. And when they come, they sort of ruin the vibe, you know, and they're playing their game. They're allowed to do that. But those are the. I wouldn't say Kryptonites specifically, but they're the. They're the annoying little gnats and mosquitoes that, you know, you want to flick.

[Interviewer]

Away the Daniel that first started playing 30 years ago. How much of that player is still turning up at the table today?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Everything I've learned, even from that very beginning as a teenager, sort of built how I think about poker in the game. Right. Having said that, like, in 2004, I won everything. I was the biggest winner. I won WPG Player of the Year, World Series Player of the Year. I was crushing everybody. Right?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Daniel Negreanu]

I look at that player now. If I had to go back and play against that player today, I would destroy that player. Right. However, that player was by far levels above everybody else. Right. I'm not that now. You know, there's plenty of players who, you know, are more, you know, are better than me now and stuff like that, but I'm still better because I've improved as well. I'm a big believer in making sure your goals are scare you a little bit. Like you're not sure that you'd be able to accomplish them.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Daniel Negreanu]

And then throughout the process of goal setting, one of the things I think is important is enjoying the journey of it and understanding that the result is the result. You're not always going to get there, but if you don't get there, look back and say, all right, what worked in terms of my plan? What didn't work? Self limiting beliefs. Well, I can't do that. Well, why not? You have all these stories that you create about why you can't do certain things and they're just stories, they're not necessarily true. And you can change your story, you can shift it, you can sort of recreate a new storyline and a new path for yourself. But first and foremost you have to address the self limiting beliefs, where they came from and what they're holding you back from.

[Interviewer]

Love that. Yeah. You're regarded as one of the all time greats of poker. When you look at other sports and you've referenced Michael Jordan and Tiger woods as two other examples, what athlete outside of poker do you compare yourself to or think you most closely resemble?

[Daniel Negreanu]

It's funny because the one name that comes to mind is a guy that I sort of admired as a kid too. And I used to wear the same gear as Andre Agassi in a way. Yeah, right. Like he had that potential to be great and he was number one many times. But he also had stuff going on, you know, he was doing media, he was a big, you know, he was involved in like promoting the game of tennis, doing commercials, doing ads and stuff like that. So while you're doing that, you're taking time away from your craft. I compare myself to like Phil Ivey, who's much more in the vein of Tiger woods and Michael Jordan. They're 100% in. You know, all that side stuff is like, it's not really a focus, you know, they, it's part of their life, but it's not the main focus. They have that ability to be like a killer where Agassi was more kind of, I felt like in and out of that. He wasn't always, you know, at his best.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So how would you like to be remembered when poker fans in decades to come look back on the era that you presided over, how would you like them to remember you?

[Daniel Negreanu]

What I strive to for at this point in my career is longevity. I want to be remembered as somebody who was always willing to adjust and always stood the test of time and whatever came at him was still able to be relevant at the highest levels.

[Interviewer]

Brilliant. Thank you, Daniel. Now, if you don't mind, I'd like to deal some cards for you. Each of them contains a question. So what does that say?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Advice.

[Interviewer]

Advice. So what advice would you give to a teenage Daniel, just starting out on this journey?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Well, to a teenage me, I would say, listen, make sure that you live your life. You're only going to be a teenager once and you're only going to have your early 20s once. So if this is something that you really want to do, understand it's going to be a sacrifice. You're going to have to sacrifice a lot of that, that stuff. But it can wait, you know, there's no rush. Live your life. Enjoy, you know, being a kid. Next one, one moment.

[Interviewer]

If you could go back to one moment of your life, what would it be and why?

[Daniel Negreanu]

There's a poker hand that sticks with me from the year 2000. 2001 was the world Series of Poker main event and I was the chip leader with 12 left. The young up and cominging punk. And I played a hand that I wouldn't play the same way today. And it's one of those that haunts you, but at the same time you realize like everything happened for a reason and maybe I just wasn't ready in that moment, but that was my big shot. That if I could go back and, you know, be back in that moment, I would change the decision that I made.

[Interviewer]

And what did happen?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Well, I ended up losing like a big hand that I wouldn't have played today and I ended up coming in 11th place. So I went from being like the in pole position, you know, just cruise to the final table and go there. And then I ended up flaming out. Non negotiables.

[Interviewer]

What are the three non negotiable behaviors that you and the people around you have to buy into?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Be impeccable with your word to yourself and to me. Well, mostly to me. But like if you say you're going to be somewhere at 7pm and you show up at 7:04, you were late, period, by definition. So I want you to acknowledge that. Right? And you know, that really matters to Me, because it's a very small example of integrity. But if you don't care about that stuff, then you probably don't care about a lot of other things. You know, you say with your word, honesty, you know, just like honesty and loyalty as a friend.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Daniel Negreanu]

And non negotiables. I don't know that. I don't even know that I have a third. Those two are so important. They stick out.

[Interviewer]

So integrity, stick to your word and be honest. Class. I missed three.

[Daniel Negreanu]

Yeah, they're almost the same, too.

[Interviewer]

Okay, two more.

[Daniel Negreanu]

2023, you said it was a year.

[Interviewer]

Of lots of learning and losses. What's the biggest learning from 2023?

[Daniel Negreanu]

Yeah, 2023 was my worst year on record as a pro, but it was also the most exciting because a light bulb went off. And it was thanks to my wife, actually, who figured it out in that I have FOMO fear of missing out. Right. So I would always be in the next event, you know, and then realizing now, listen, you're 49. You need rest. Rest is what makes you better. I remember it was a moment where I was in Bahamas and I just played a tournament and I was going to go play the next one and I was telling my wife said, yeah, I'm going to go play this one, but I don't really feel like playing. And she says, you know, you never do any good when you don't feel like playing. And I'm, you know, defensive. I'm like, oh, yeah, what about that time when. Wait a minute. Yeah, no, you're right. So it just dawned on me and I didn't play that next tournament, went to rest, and then I played the next day and felt fresh.

[Interviewer]

And let's go for the last of our cards.

[Daniel Negreanu]

All right, the golden rule.

[Interviewer]

What's your one golden rule? To live in a high performance life.

[Daniel Negreanu]

Well, for me, the golden rule is whenever. When everything else fails or whatever, new strategies, new theories, new ideas come out. Understand there's one person you should trust above all else, and that's yourself.

[Interviewer]

Right?

[Daniel Negreanu]

I have faith in what I do. I know what I do works. So while I will try on different things here and there and try to incorporate it, at the core, I am who I am because of the strategies that I built and to trust myself above all else.

[Interviewer]

Well, thank you to Daniel for that brilliant conversation. If you've enjoyed this episode, please do consider sharing it with someone who you think might benefit from hearing his insights on decision making under pressure and the mindset required to stay at the top of your game. We look forward to seeing you next time on High Performance.

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[Daniel Negreanu]

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[Daniel Negreanu]

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