Podcast Summary: The History of Literature

Episode 751 – Covering Iran's Women-Led Uprising (with Nilo Tabrizy) | My Last Book with Sharmila Sen
Host: Jacke Wilson
Guests: Nilo Tabrizy, Sharmila Sen
Release Date: November 20, 2025

Overview

This episode of The History of Literature explores the 2022–2023 women-led uprising in Iran, focusing on its origin, sociopolitical impact, and the vital role of literature in resistance and identity. Investigative reporter Nilo Tabrizy shares insights from her book For the Sun After Long Nights—co-authored with Fatemeh Jamalpour—about documenting the movement as both journalists and members of the diaspora. The episode closes with Harvard University Press editorial director Sharmila Sen reflecting on the book she'd want to read last, highlighting the emotional resonance of literature in one's native language.

1. The Woman, Life, Freedom Uprising in Iran

[04:41 – 11:03]

Background and Outbreak of Protest

• Trigger Event: The movement began after the arrest and death of Mahsa (Jina) Amini in September 2022, detained for allegedly wearing her hijab improperly.
  • “When I even think of this photo now, like, I can still picture it. I can feel it. It was really visceral. She was laying unconscious in a gurney...dried blood on her ears. It really looked like she was beaten within an inch of her life.” — Nilo Tabrizy [05:27]
• Widespread Identification: Many Iranians saw themselves in Amini’s situation, as harassment by morality police was a common part of daily life.
• Protest Growth: Immediate demonstrations erupted at the hospital and funeral; the rallying cry "Women, Life, Freedom"—rooted in the Kurdish "Jin, Jian, Azadi"—spread.
  • Became the “largest and most widespread anti-government uprising in the Islamic Republic's history.” [06:51]

Nature of the Uprising

• Women at the Forefront: Protest actions included burning hijabs, cutting hair, and direct physical confrontation with security forces.
  • “Women putting themselves really, for the first time, in direct confrontation with security officials, so physically putting their bodies on the line.” — Nilo Tabrizy [07:55]
• Men’s Involvement: Both genders protested, but women’s leadership and visibility were unprecedented.
• Famous Supporters: High-profile figures like actress Taraneh Alidoosti voiced support and faced state retribution.
  • “It didn't matter how high profile you were. For many Iranians who spoke out, the state responded very swiftly.” [08:41]

State Response and Crackdown

• Violent Suppression: The regime responded harshly, including brutal crackdowns, killings (notably “Bloody Friday” in Zahedan, 100+ killed in a day), and violence even at funerals.
  • “A vicious cycle of violence...The response to the uprising was very violent by many state authorities and quite lethal.” [09:09]

2. Open Source Journalism and Covering Distant Protests

[10:14 – 15:33]

Challenges of Journalism in Iran

• Media Blackout: Major Western outlets lack staff inside Iran; local journalists are under surveillance and risk imprisonment.
  • “We wouldn’t even know about what happened to Jina without the reporting of Niloufar Hamadi and Elahe Mohammadi...both imprisoned quite quickly.” [11:03]
• Role of Social Media: Protest videos circulate primarily on X, Instagram, Telegram—often the only visual record.

Verification Under Pressure

• Methodology: Each video is painstakingly checked for authenticity—timestamp, location (through geolocation with OpenStreetMaps, satellite images), and factual context.
  • “The process is pretty quick...reverse image search...make sure it’s of this moment...geolocate it...use satellite imagery or Google Maps.” [11:03–13:48]
• High Stakes: Pressure to balance speed with accuracy as viral content races ahead of verification.
  • “These videos, like, I regard them as so precious...if they're capturing evidence of state violence, it becomes even more important to verify it.” [14:18]

3. Personal Stakes and Diaspora Experience

[15:33 – 18:22]

• Personal Connection: Tabrizy was born in Tehran, raised in Canada, and always felt the weight of self-censorship and danger due to her background.
  • “If you ever go to a protest against Iran in Canada, know that there are agents there and they could stop you from returning. So immediately, that experience of living under an autocratic regime was there.” [16:01]
• Risk and Sacrifice: Covering the uprising meant shutting the door on ever returning safely to Iran; weighed against the necessity to bear witness.

4. Co-Author Fatemeh Jamalpour: Courage from Within Iran

[18:22 – 23:44]

• Fatemeh’s Ordeal: After returning to Iran (from BBC Persian in London) for her ill father's sake, Jamalpour faced year-long interrogations and ongoing surveillance.
  • “She messaged me: 'My father has cancer, I have to return to Iran. You're not going to hear from me. Not hearing from me means I’m safe.' That was a real gut punch.” [18:33]
• Collaboration Under Threat: Their essay for The Paris Review (using a pseudonym) led to a book.
• Dramatic Flight: Before the book’s release, Fatemeh’s lawyer, after reading the manuscript, urged her to leave for her safety.
  • “He read three pages...said, 'You need to go to the airport.'” — Jacke Wilson [20:48]
  • Fatemeh managed to escape via Turkey to the US.

5. Structure and Emotional Power of For the Sun After Long Nights

[21:56 – 34:58]

• Alternating Narratives: The book alternates between Tabrizy (diaspora) and Jamalpour (inside Iran), highlighting differing risks, sacrifices, and perspectives.
  • “Sections that she wrote, the physical courage...with the jail time likely, the beatings likely...she had been on their radar for years...unbelievable and inspiring.” — Jacke [21:56]
• Psychological Battles: Vivid descriptions of Fatemeh’s interrogators, especially the female interrogator “Ms. S. Sedehgat,” illustrate psychological manipulation—a standout, suspenseful narrative within the book.
  • “When I was reading it, I thought I was reading like a screenplay...just really visceral.” — Nilo Tabrizy [23:44]
• Intimate Collaboration: Despite only meeting once, their deep, digital writing partnership builds emotional intimacy and mutual understanding.
  • “It's a real testament to being able to be connected with our homeland, even when states try to keep us apart.” [29:30]

6. Journalism, Memoir, and Testimony

[34:58 – 39:43]

• Genre Blending: The book is rooted in rigorous reportage but uses personal testimony for context—not a pure memoir, but lived experience shapes perspective.
  • “I view it less as memoir and really more as personal testimony.” — Nilo Tabrizy [34:58]
• Objectivity and Truth: Differentiates from standard Western reporting by directly stating realities known in the community, rather than resorting to generic “critics said” formulations.
  • “The Islamic Republic stood firm...but Iranians knew better. In the States, that would have said ‘critics said.’ Instead, you’re just giving us the truth.” — Jacke [37:04]

7. Literature and Poetry as Resistance and Identity

[39:43 – 45:11]

• Central Role of Poetry: Deep-seated in the Iranian psyche; recitation, fortune-telling (bibliomancy), and coded language—tools for both communication and resistance.
  • “Poetry is really a pillar of our identity. In Iran, it's everywhere...People will recite poetry for you for money—even illiterate people.” — Tabrizy [40:14]
  • “We’ll turn to Hafez’s poetry for fortune telling...call my mom, she’ll open a book of Hafez, she’ll look at a verse.” [40:14]
• Protest Slogans and Songs: “For dancing with loved ones, for the sun after long nights” – lyrics from Shervin Hajipour’s song “Baraye,” drawn from protest tweets; Hajipour’s subsequent imprisonment proves the power of poetry.
  • “He put those tweets together and wrote this really beautiful song…it blew up, millions of views…He was imprisoned…‘What other peaceful way could I have expressed myself?’” — Tabrizy [43:43]

8. Consequences and Hopes

[45:11 – 52:14]

• Irrevocable Change: For Tabrizy, the book is both a badge of pride and symbol of permanent exile.
  • “Every time I publish a story about Iran, it’s a reminder I can’t go back…that undercurrent of grief will always exist.” [45:41]
• On-the-Ground Changes: Despite a harsher legal code for the hijab, actual enforcement has lessened; many women now appear uncovered in public, indicating the movement’s lasting effect.
  • “The law never really went into effect…my friends send me pictures of Tehran, women are in cafes, their hair is out. It's not like the laws have changed, but the enforcement isn’t happening.” [47:24]
• What Can Outsiders Do? Pressure (e.g., sanctions) may backfire and harm citizens; best support is to stay informed, share stories, and recognize Iranians’ humanity.
  • “Really try to understand the experience Iranians are living through. Sanctions haven’t changed the government’s behavior…but what’s affected is people’s livelihood.” [49:41]
• On Hope and Resilience: Despite grief, poetic heritage and the courage of young Iranians fuel hope.
  • “Iranians are incredibly joyful people. We know how to find joy…what outweighs that is resilience, and I really think that comes from centuries of women-led activism.” [52:14]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I feel really proud to see it in the world. And there is that undercurrent of grief that will always exist for me.” — Nilo Tabrizy [45:41]
• “I hope readers can see Iranians and see the humanity of us and connect with our people and with our narratives and our backgrounds.” — Nilo Tabrizy [50:42]
• “Iranians are neither victims nor perpetrators of something horrible. They are just people living under really difficult circumstances.” [50:42]
• “We both dream of that future—of one day living there and being able to do reporting…without imminent fear of being detained and harassed...” [46:41]

9. My Last Book: Dr. Sharmila Sen on Literature, Language, and Home

[54:42 – 62:18]

The Book of Homecoming

• Dr. Sen’s Selection: Aam Atir Bhepu (“The Song of the Road”) by Bibhutibhushan Bandopadhyay—read repeatedly in childhood in Bengali, her mother tongue.
  • “It would be a form of returning home for me.” — Sharmila Sen [55:41]
• Language and Identity: Reading in Bengali is “a homecoming,” tied to formative experiences and the language of her parents.
  • “Sometimes I just want to be able to...let my eyes go over the shapes of the alphabet of my native language...the language I spoke my first words in.” [57:09]
• Multilingual Realities: Navigating multiple languages brings fluid identity, but in her final moments she yearns for simplicity—a return to “the language I used to name the first things.”
  • “I want that simplicity and quiet.” [61:13]

Key Timestamps

• 04:39–05:16: Nilo Tabrizy introduced; background on the 2022 protests
• 06:51: Scope and impact of the protests
• 09:09–10:14: State crackdown and Bloody Friday
• 11:03–13:48: Open source journalism, verification methods
• 16:01: Tabrizy’s personal ties, diaspora dynamics
• 18:33–21:56: Fatemeh Jamalpour’s experience and escape
• 23:44: Psychological interrogation scenes
• 29:30: On digital pen pals and diaspora connections
• 34:58: Navigating journalism, testimony, and memoir
• 40:14: The role of literature and poetry in Iran
• 43:43: Shervin Hajipour’s protest song
• 45:41: Cost of publication—exile and grief
• 47:24: Real-life impact on hijab enforcement
• 49:41: How outsiders can help
• 50:42: Humanity and hope
• 55:41: Dr. Sharmila Sen’s last book
• 57:09: Bengali language as home
• 61:13: The longing for quiet simplicity in one’s mother tongue

Conclusion

This episode offers a compelling blend of literature, political courage, and cultural reflection. Nilo Tabrizy’s testimony—and her collaboration with Fatemeh Jamalpour—sheds light on the risks, resilience, and creative spirit of Iran’s women-led uprising. The conversation with Sharmila Sen closes the episode with a poignant meditation on the role of literature in preserving identity and providing solace, especially for those who live between worlds.