The History of Literature Podcast

Episode 753: Tenth-Anniversary Special (with Mike Palindrome and Laurie Frankel) | Giving Thanks | My Last Book with Eve Dunbar
Date: November 26, 2025
Host: Jacke Wilson
Guests: Mike Palindrome, Laurie Frankel, Eve Dunbar

Episode Overview

This special 10th-anniversary edition of "The History of Literature" celebrates a decade of literary exploration, gratitude, and community. Host Jacke Wilson is joined by regular guests Laurie Frankel and Mike Palindrome for an in-depth conversation on the literary landscape of 1965–1975—now newly eligible for podcast coverage as the show’s arbitrary "50-year rule" shifts forward. The episode mixes personal anecdotes, a spirited discussion of influential books from the period, reflections on the cultural context, and a special segment with Eve Dunbar on her "last book" choice.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The 10-Year Rule and Shifting Literary Horizons

[03:00–07:30]

• Jacke reflects on his self-imposed rule: only covering books at least 50 years old to ensure historical perspective.
• With the podcast’s 10th birthday, this rule moves the eligibility window from 1965 to 1975. Books and authors previously excluded are now fair game.
• "[It] occurred to me that... now it's moved up to 1975, 50 years ago from today. And so because I like to find fun topics when I have Laurie and Mike here... I asked them to pitch me on a few of their favorite books from that period." (Jacke, 04:27)

2. Thanksgiving Traditions

[08:46–13:22]

• Laurie, a vegetarian, hosts both brunch and dinner for 20+ people in Seattle, featuring creative dishes like squash galettes and overnight French toast.
• Mike breaks from his usual Manhattan Thanksgiving to celebrate in Connecticut at a German restaurant, watching football (Cowboys fan!).
• The conversation lightheartedly touches on family, food, and the "hell of [Laurie's] own making" in hosting two meals.

3. Laurie Frankel and Mike Palindrome — What’s New?

[13:22–18:54]

• Laurie discusses her forthcoming novel "Enormous Wings," about a 77-year-old woman facing an unexpected pregnancy in a retirement community.
• Mike talks about his online slow-reading groups, recent reads ("Anthony Powell’s Dance to the Music of Time," Rachel Cusk, soon: "Sátántangó" and Balzac), and an in-person Infinite Jest group.

4. The Cultural Context: 1965–1975

[20:01–22:59]

• Both guests were born in the early 1970s, so the period holds nostalgic weight as "the books our parents’ generation read."
• Mike notes the era’s "transition between the Stepford Wives period in America in the 50s and... the capitalist Wild West of the 80s" (20:01)—a time of artistic experimentation and social change.
• Laurie observes how music, theater, and film from this decade stay vital, but the books require more conscious rediscovery.

5. Literary Picks from 1965–1975

Each pick segment runs approx. [26:27–66:00]

Laurie's Picks:

• Ragtime by E.L. Doctorow (1975)
  “It's not like anything... Which is sort of a remarkable thing.” (Laurie, 28:21)
  • Celebrated for its unique style and continued relevance; inspired Laurie’s top recommendation of the year.
• Toni Morrison’s Early Novels: Sula (1973), The Bluest Eye
  “They feel to me like the first of their kind... a harbinger of... an enormous culture shift.” (Laurie, 33:22)
  • Early Morrison as groundbreaking, prescient, and deeply influential.
• One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel García Márquez (Spanish 1967; English 1970)
  “It blew my mind the first time I read them in college, and then again… when I read them later.” (Laurie, 54:23)
  • Praised for style, scope, and accessibility.

Mike’s Picks:

• Deliverance by James Dickey (1970)
  “The book is wonderful... beautifully written, entertaining... a thriller.” (Mike, 31:36)
  • Noted for class analysis and poetic prose.
• Flannery O’Connor’s Short Stories and The Complete Stories (1971)
  “Changed the way I viewed writers… didn’t expect her humor, the treatment of religion, and just her take on America.” (Mike, 46:18)
  • Highlighted O’Connor’s unexpected energy, violence, and storytelling prowess.
• A Fan’s Notes by Frederick Exley (1968)
  “So flawed… alcoholism, the relationships… searching for an artist’s path. Way for me to return to Dostoyevsky and existentialism.” (Mike, 60:11)
  • Lauded as a one-hit wonder bridging memoir, fiction, and philosophy.

Additional Notable Mentions:

• William Styron, Philip Roth (Portnoy’s Complaint, 1969), John Fowles, Catherine Ann Porter, Joyce Carol Oates, John Updike, Ursula Le Guin, Seamus Heaney, Cynthia Ozick, John Gardner, Grace Paley.

6. Reflections on Publishing, Memory, and How We Read

[50:36–54:20]

• Discussion of how e-readers and digital culture alter book discovery and memory; physical bookshelves prompt serendipitous rediscovery.
• Jacke laments the loss of shared cultural moments, when “everyone in the country” was reading the same bestseller.

7. Poetry and Children’s Books

[66:49–71:22]

• Mike singles out Seamus Heaney’s poetry and Charlotte’s Web for their lasting emotional resonance.
• Laurie champions Beverly Cleary and Judy Blume—books she cherished and successfully passed on to her child.
• Both fondly recall "Frog and Toad are Friends" as a touchstone for empathy, bureaucracy, and friendship.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On why literature needs time:
  “It’s hard to get that perspective on a book that just came out... I wanted to know what the greatest books have done to large groups of people...” (Jacke, 02:44)
• On the nostalgia of literary eras:
  “It’s an interesting question: what were your parents reading and watching and listening to when they were the age that you are now?” (Laurie, 24:22)
• On the impact of historical fiction:
  “Did the 1920s look different from the mid-1970s than they do from now? ... does historical fiction last longer because it’s supposed to be dated?” (Laurie, 29:21)
• On digitization and literary memory:
  “Because people are reading on e-readers… you’re never going to come upon these books that are 50 years old… they’re not in your house anymore.” (Laurie, 50:39)
• On the communal experience of reading:
  “I love the idea of everybody in the country reading the same book at the same time… It would be very interesting in a different way than we read right now.” (Laurie, 53:57)
• On the emotional power of children’s literature:
  “You’re just never, ever going to get over Charlotte’s Web. Never.” (Laurie, 71:16)

Important Timestamps

| Segment | Time | |---------------------------------------------|-----------| | Introduction & 50-Year Rule | 1:06–7:34 | | Thanksgiving Traditions | 8:46–13:22| | Guest Updates (Frankel, Palindrome) | 13:22–18:54| | 1965–1975 in Cultural Context | 20:01–22:59| | Literary Picks Discussion | 26:27–66:00| | Publishing/Reading Reflections | 50:36–54:20| | Poetry/Children’s Books | 66:49–71:22| | Children’s Literature Emotional Impact | 70:35–71:16|

Special Segment: "My Last Book" with Eve Dunbar

[73:16–77:11]

• Eve Dunbar chooses Toni Morrison’s Sula as her “last book”—a novel she associates with joy and the fortitude of friendship between Black women.
• “[Sula’s] about resisting norms… conformity actually aren’t going to bring you happiness… friendship is there for us. Sociality… might be the thing that frees us.” (Eve Dunbar, 75:15)
• Morrison’s “sentences are a treat individually unto themselves.” (Eve, 77:00)

Gratitude & Closing Reflections

[39:52–46:14]

• Jacke offers a personal meditation on gratitude—thanking listeners, collaborators, and the community for 10 years of support.
• “This is when generosity and enthusiasm and joy and humor need to be pumped into the system… if we the people don’t supply it, then it’s not coming.” (Jacke, 42:06)

Tone & Style

The conversation flows with warmth, literary passion, humor, and a sense of nostalgia. Jacke’s approach, and his guests’ contributions, balance affection for the past with an acute awareness of cultural changes and challenges in reading, publishing, and collective memory.

In Summary

This episode celebrates both the show's history and the literature of a pivotal decade, offering considered reflections on how we read, remember, and share books. The sprawling, enthusiastic conversation provides new reading lists, historical context, and emotional touchstones for literature lovers—whether they lived through the era or are discovering its treasures anew.