The History of Literature – Episode 765

"Young Goodman Brown by Nathaniel Hawthorne"

With Host Jacke Wilson and Guest Mike Palindrome

Release Date: January 8, 2026

Overview

In this episode, Jacke Wilson is joined by longtime friend and recurring guest Mike Palindrome (president of the Literature Supporters Club) to discuss Nathaniel Hawthorne’s classic American short story "Young Goodman Brown." The conversation explores the story's enduring mysteries, its exploration of faith and evil, and its place within the American literary tradition. Jacke and Mike dive deeply into the text, its themes, and its legacy, providing both analysis and personal reflections that make the episode engaging for Hawthorne fans and newcomers alike.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Belief, Evil, and Ambiguity

• Opening Questions: Jacke kicks off the episode by asking Mike if he believes in the devil, establishing a tone of philosophical inquiry.
  • “Do you believe in the devil?” (06:41)
• Mike’s Response: He doesn’t believe in literal devils but admits to believing in evil.
  • “I guess I believe in evil.” (06:53, Mike)
• Reflection on Faith and Religion: Mike reveals a fascination with religious people and the role of faith in America, particularly as depicted by Hawthorne.
  • “I used to really go after them and attack them, but I think I’ve mellowed out… There's a real utility to religion whether or not you believe in God.” (09:48, Mike)

2. Contextualizing "Young Goodman Brown"

• Literary Praise: The hosts note famous admirers of the story:
  • Melville called it "as deep as Dante,"
  • Stephen King: "One of the 10 greatest stories ever written by an American,"
  • Henry James: "A magnificent little romance." (11:47–12:27)
• Historical Note: Jacke explains that "Goodman" is a title, a rank below gentleman, and not simply an indication of virtue or a surname (11:07).

3. Plot Structure/Analysis

• Abrupt Beginning: Both note the story starts in media res, with no backstory for Goodman Brown's decision to enter the woods.
  • “We don’t get any backstory into what he’s doing or why or when he decided to do this.” (47:44, Emma)
• Power of Mystery: Mike suggests the absence of motive adds to the story’s suspense and reader engagement.
• Significance of Faith: The double entendre of the wife’s name "Faith" is highlighted for its thematic resonance.
  • “He says, faith kept me back a while … obviously that’s talking about his wife. But… it could also be that his faith in God kept him from consorting with Satan.” (49:43, Emma)

4. Encounter with Evil

• Immediate Appearance of the Devil: Both are struck by the devil’s early and matter-of-fact entrance, which departs from expectations of gradual escalation:
  • “Were you surprised that he encountered the devil right there in the… as he’s entering the woods?” (50:22, Emma)
• Familiar Odyssey Structure: Mike observes the ‘road-encounter’ structure is reminiscent of classic epics like the Odyssey. Each encounter is laced with suspicion and ambiguity (51:49).

5. Thematic Depth: Sin, Hypocrisy, and Original Guilt

• Community Exposed: The revelation that seemingly pious townspeople are present at the satanic gathering shocks both Goodman Brown and the readers.
• Historical Sins: The devil’s recounting of violent acts by Goodman Brown’s ancestors is discussed as Hawthorne’s broader comment on Puritan history and American collective guilt.
  • “He says, I was there when your grandfather… lashed the Quaker woman so smartly through the streets of Salem.” (54:47, Jacke)
• Nature of Sin: Debate over whether the villagers' sins are “original” (human) or concrete evils (murder, infanticide, etc.)
  • Emma: “I can accept maybe that because I’m human, I’m a sinner, but I haven’t done any of those things.” (57:44)
  • Mike: “Some of these crimes do seem bad.” (58:02)

6. Ambiguity, Dream Logic, and Aftermath

• Dream vs. Reality: The hosts discuss whether Brown’s experience is a dream, vision, or actual event, noting Hawthorne’s intentional ambiguity.
  • “I would like to think it really happened because I think it’s a better story… but I think that’s the way I want to think about this.” (59:02, Mike)
• The Cost of Lost Faith: The story’s chilling end—where Brown becomes sullen, distrustful, and alienated even from Faith—is unpacked for its psychological resonance.
  • “It kind of turns him into a suspicious, almost paranoid and gloomy person…” (61:59, Emma)
• Legacy of Salem: Jacke and Mike discuss Hawthorne’s family ties—his ancestor was a judge at the Salem witch trials—and how this personal history infuses the story with particular intensity (62:09).

7. Hawthorne’s Craft and Classroom Appeal

• Debatable and Enduring: Hawthorne’s mastery of theme, ambiguity, and plot structure make his work both accessible to students and endlessly debatable in literary circles (63:11).
  • “His stories are really debatable. Like, debatable in terms of, like, worth debating.” (63:12, Mike)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Devil and Evil
  • “I guess I believe in evil.” – Mike Palindrome (06:53)
• Faith as Symbol and Character
  • “He says, faith kept me back a while… obviously that’s talking about his wife. But… it could also be that… his faith in God kept him from consorting with Satan.” – Emma (49:43)
• On the Nature of Sin in the Village
  • “Behold the whole earth. One stain of guilt, one mighty blood spot. It’s kind of like one act… dooms all of humanity.” – Mike Palindrome quoting Hawthorne (58:30)
• Enduring Effect of Brown's Night
  • “It kind of turns him into a suspicious, almost paranoid and gloomy person, which… you could see happening to someone even without having a fantastical vision like this.” – Emma (61:59)
• Hawthorne’s Family History
  • “He. His, I think, great, great grandfather was a judge at the Salem [witch] trials.” – Mike Palindrome (62:09)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Belief in the Devil and Evil: 06:41–09:14
• The Significance of "Goodman" and Story Context: 11:07–12:27
• Literary Praise and Legacy: 12:09–12:27
• Story Reading (abridged): 13:02–47:00
• Abrupt Beginning & Absence of Motive: 47:44–49:28
• Faith as Wife and Symbol: 49:43–50:06
• Meeting the Devil: 50:22–51:09
• Structure and “Odyssey Setup”: 51:49–52:46
• Historical Sins & Puritan Commentary: 54:04–56:43
• Nature and Severity of Sin: 57:18–58:30
• Dream vs. Reality: 58:47–59:57
• Psychological Fallout and Loss of Trust: 61:59–62:09
• Hawthorne’s Family Dark Legacy: 62:09–62:45
• Debatability and Classroom Appeal: 63:11–63:30
• Short Story, Enduring Power: 64:18–64:29

Additional Notes & Closing

• Reading Together Project: Mike mentions upcoming books discussed in the Literature Supporters Club, including "Santango" by Laszlo Krasznahorkai and "Lost Illusions" by Balzac (64:46–65:44).
• Hawthorne’s Themes: Both hosts agree on Hawthorne’s bravery in exploring taboo themes in his time, praising the enduring relevance and teachability of "Young Goodman Brown."
• Outro: Jacke teases upcoming episodes featuring Gertrude Stein and others, inviting listeners to subscribe and join future journeys in literature.

This episode offers a thorough, thoughtful, and at times playful exploration of "Young Goodman Brown," unpacking its layers in an accessible way and providing plenty of material for discussion and further reading.