The Fort: 2. Everyone Volunteered

Summary

The History Podcast (BBC Radio 4)

Episode: The Fort: 2. Everyone Volunteered

Release Date: September 8, 2025

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Overview

This gripping episode recounts a harrowing true story from the Afghanistan war: the desperate rescue of Royal Marine Lance Corporal Matthew Ford, left behind during a fierce assault on a Taliban-held fort. Through vivid testimony from commanders, soldiers, and pilots, the episode spotlights intense camaraderie, the burden of command, and the spontaneous heroism that can arise in battle’s darkest moments.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Emotional Toll of Combat Deployments

• Captain Chris Fraser Perry reflects on the maturation and sober responsibilities soldiers face, including writing so-called "what if" letters to their families at a young age:
  • “The worst thing I've ever done...is having to write the what if? letter at 18 years old...that gets passed to your mum and dad.” (01:24)
• The moment starkly illustrates how war accelerates adulthood and emotional resilience.

2. The Ambush and Realization: A Man Left Behind

• The night’s mission turned critical upon learning Royal Marine Matthew Ford had not returned.
  • “The chatter starts that we haven't got all our men back. Then there's the name of Ford.” (02:10)
• The potential consequences were dire:
  • “If they got to him, what they would do to him would be horrific.” – Captain Chris Fraser Perry (02:26)

3. The Rescue Plan—Daring Improvisation

• Officers scrambled for a rescue solution amidst heavy risks of further casualties.
• Tom O'Malley, Apache pilot, proposed an untested, makeshift solution—strapping four volunteers onto the outside of Apache helicopters using extraction strops:
  • “Get me four Marines and I will take them in and we'll get that boy home.” (02:31)
  • On the method: “We used to carry with us extraction strops...needs must. This is an emergency...Instead of just taking people away, we'll take people in using that same method.” (05:10)
• The plan was unprecedented and improvised under duress:
  • “How many times have you done this before?”—“We've never done it before...never trained for it.” (06:25)

4. Command Decisions and Moral Weight

• Lt. Gen. Rob McGowan (then Lt. Colonel) describes the lonely burden of command, having to greenlight a plan that could easily lead to more deaths:
  • “I knew that I was in danger of losing another eight people, two helicopters. This would be a disaster for the mission...I'd never in my whole life felt so alone.” (07:05)
  • “I was effectively sentencing people to one of the most dangerous missions that they would ever embark upon.” (07:50)

5. Volunteering for a Near-Suicidal Mission

• Multiple soldiers describe the instant, overwhelming willingness to volunteer for the hazardous rescue, exemplified by an unbreakable sense of brotherhood:
  • “Everyone volunteered. The four guys that went all volunteered.” – Dave Rigg (12:06)
  • “Absolutely everyone. Wasn't a person without the hand up.” – Captain Chris Fraser Perry (12:12)
• The strong bonds within Zulu Company were a motivating force:
  • “It was that close-knit brotherhood of looking after each other.” (10:17)

6. Guilt, Accountability, and Composure

• Dave Rigg, engineer and operations officer, discusses the shared sense of responsibility when things go wrong:
  • “We were responsible for sending these guys in, so it's not a good feeling to see it all going wrong.” (09:51)
  • “I guess I knew more about what I'd volunteered to do than the others...it was instinctive really.” (12:34)
• Volunteers meticulously prepared for the worst, double-checking ammunition and kit:
  • “Making sure my ammo scales were all topped up, good to go because worst case scenario you'd be fighting your way out of there on your own.” – Captain Chris Fraser Perry (12:47)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On writing a farewell letter at 18:
  "The worst thing I've ever done...is having to write the what if? letter at 18 years old...you're writing it almost third person in reflection of what you want to tell your mum and dad."
  — Captain Chris Fraser Perry (01:24)

• On improvising under pressure:
  "If you give me four Marines I will take four marines with me on my two Apache helicopters and we'll go back and get Lance Corporal Ford."
  — Tom O'Malley (04:41)

• On making the call:
  "I felt tremendous pressure because I was effectively sentencing people to one of the most dangerous missions that they would ever embark upon."
  — Lt. Gen. Rob McGowan (07:50)

• The overwhelming sense of unity:
  "Everyone volunteered. The four guys that went all volunteered."
  — Dave Rigg (12:06)

• Realization before departure:
  "I remember going up to [my corporal] and saying, my letter is under my pillow, my what if letter. And I think that's where it really hit me. Like, right, I'm about to sit on a helicopter and fly into a Taliban [fort]."
  — Captain Chris Fraser Perry (14:06)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 01:08 – Captain Chris Fraser Perry on the emotional toll and 'what if' letters
• 02:03 – Discovery that Matthew Ford has been left behind
• 02:31 – Tom O’Malley’s call for volunteers for the helicopter rescue
• 05:10 – Technical improvisation: using strops on Apaches for the rescue
• 06:25 – Officers debate the unprecedented risk of the operation
• 07:05 – Lt. Gen. McGowan on the burden of command and making the final decision
• 10:01 – Volunteers are called; Zulu Company’s deep bonds
• 12:06 – The rush of volunteers (Dave Rigg and Chris Fraser Perry)
• 14:06 – Personal preparation and the gravity of the mission hits home

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Episode Tone and Language

The episode is deeply personal, raw, and honest, filled with military candor and emotional intensity. The speakers often interweave humor and technical talk with deep personal reflection, underscoring the stakes of combat and the complexities of leadership in crisis moments.

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Conclusion

“The Fort: 2. Everyone Volunteered” provides a firsthand look into the immediacy, innovation, and emotional depth of combat rescues under fire. Through the voices of those who risked everything, the episode offers a portrait of military brotherhood and courage in the face of impossible odds.

Transcript

[Narrator]

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[Alex von Tanzelmann]

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You know, he would look at these men and he would say, don't worry, sonny, you'll have as good a face as any of us when I'm done with you.

Join me, Alex von Tanzelman for History's Heroes. Subscribe to History's Heroes wherever you get your podcasts.

[Captain Chris Fraser Perry]

So my name's Captain Chris Fraser Perry. I've been in the Royal Marines 20 years now. One thing I would sort of reflect on now is there probably wasn't many 17, 18 year old kids, especially at that time, who'd written a will. I had my 19th birthday. I think I was in garms here at the time in Helmond. The worst thing I've ever done, I've only ever done it once, is having to write the what if? Letter at 18 years old and it's a letter to your family if you get killed and then that gets passed to your mum and dad. And that was still probably one of the worst things I've ever done, having to write that letter because you're writing it almost third person in reflection of what you want to tell your mum and dad.

[Alex von Tanzelmann]

It was a daring and brave mission.

[Captain Chris Fraser Perry]

To rescue a Royal Marine who'd been.

[Alex von Tanzelmann]

Trapped in fighting in Afghanistan.

[Captain Chris Fraser Perry]

It all began the night before Royal.

[Narrator]

Marines of 45 Commando attacking a Taliban.

[Captain Chris Fraser Perry]

Fort in Helmand Province.

[Narrator]

One man was left behind. Marines were determined by any means necessary to get him back. The chatter starts that we haven't got all our men back. Then there's the name of Ford.

[Captain Chris Fraser Perry]

If they got to him, what they would do to him would be horrific.

[Tom O'Malley]

Somebody was going to have to go back and get Matthew Ford. Get me four Marines. Get me four Marines and I will take them in and we'll get that boy home.

[Captain Chris Fraser Perry]

I'd been speaking to Fordy about mortgages because I was like, I was 19 years old. I didn't know what mortgage was. It was like a foreign thing to me. He was explaining what a mortgage is and how you do it and this, that the other. And I don't know, I'll always remember that one minute getting life tips off one of the senior marines in the company and then fast forward a few hours and you're the one who's going back to rescue him. It was such a close knit company and it really is still the little patrol base we'd live in that was under constant attack. Every day we get mortared, you could set your watch by it. You'd hear the whistle of the mortars coming down and you didn't even have to check your watch. You knew it was four o'. Clock. Zulu Company is one of four fighting companies within four five Commando you've got Whiskey Company, Yankee Company, X Ray Company and Zulu Company. The the most contacts we had within a rolling 24 hour period was 36, that's 36 full on contacts and exchange of enemy fire. There was often times where we didn't get resupplies because it was too kinetic where we were. It was very, very like austere conditions. So it was a really, really tight knit company.

[Narrator]

My name is Lieutenant General Rob McGowan. I'm the Deputy Chief of Defence Staff for Force Development. I was the commanding officer of the Information Exploitation Group and I was a Lieutenant Colonel So I remember pretty precisely how this played out. I was in my command post preparing for this ground rescue operation. They would for sure see us coming back. I knew we were going to take more casualties. I got a call, somebody wants to talk to you from an ugly call sign. An ugly call sign was an Apache helicopter. The Apache pilot asked me what I was doing. I explained to him my plan and he said how long is this going to take apart? And I said well H hour. The moment to Launch is at 0900. I remember something like that. And he said but that's an hour and a half away. I can solve this problem for you commanding officer in five minutes. And I said how are you going to do that? And he said well, if you give me four Marines I will take four marines with me on my two Apache helicopters and we'll go back and get Lance Corporal Ford. I understand you know where he is.

[Tom O'Malley]

I'm Tom o', Malley, a former Apache pilot. We are as aircrew what's known as prone to capture. If you get a mechanical failure, you get shot down, you need a means of immediate extraction and so we used to carry with us extraction strops that would go through under our arms. And we were using carabiners, hook it onto the grab handles on the side of the aircraft. So that was a means of emergency escape. There were places you can sit, places you can hold on to. And so I just adapted the idea that, okay, well, you know, needs must. This is an emergency. Instead of just taking people away, we'll take people in using that same method so that they can bring people out using that same method.

[Narrator]

Now, I think subconsciously, because I didn't do it deliberately, I was obviously playing for time because I said to him, I don't have four pilots. And he said to me, no, we're the pilots. You just need four volunteers. We've got strops to put them to secure them to the Apache wings. And we'll go back and get Lance Corporal Ford. And I said, how many times have you done this before? And he said, we've never done it before. I said, how many times have you trained for it? And he said, we've never trained for it. And I said, give me 10 minutes. He said, you've got two minutes. I'm almost out of fuel.

[Tom O'Malley]

My logic was, if I'm on a motorbike and I ride a motorbike, you're okay at 70 miles an hour. These are Royal Marines, you know, they're men of action. Their heritage is built on exactly that kind of thing.

[Narrator]

In the Ministry of Defence, there are plenty of people up and down the corridors of this building that are very keen to provide advice to the Defence Secretary to me on all sorts of ranges of issues. But when the crunch comes and this sort of decision had to be made, I put the radio down and there was total and utter silence. And everybody was looking anywhere except at me. And I knew that it was my decision, my decision alone. And I'd never in my whole life felt so alone. I knew that I was in danger of losing another eight people, two helicopters. This would be a disaster for the mission. It would be clearly a disaster for them and their families. And I felt that I was on my own and I had to make this decision. And I had nowhere to run. And I made the call that we would do it. I felt this complete panic inside me. And I was very conscious in such an enclosed environment that I must show none of that on my face. But I felt tremendous pressure because I was effectively sentencing people to one of the most dangerous missions that they would ever embark upon. But at least it was now in train. The Apache helicopters landed very close to my command post and it was now my business of finding four people to join the helicopters.

[Dave Rigg]

I'm Dave Rigg. I was the operations officer for an engineering regiment that had been deployed to Afghanistan. And for the most part I was based in the headquarters involved in the kind of brigade level planning of these large scale operations to build checkpoints, but we were also building schools and community centers. My role changed slightly. I was seconded to the Ajax Battle Group. When the news comes back that the company are missing an individual, we assumed, you know, kind of the fog of war, but it, no, it soon became apparent that Kurtle Ford had been left on the enemy objective. That realization was sickening. It was horrible.

[Captain Chris Fraser Perry]

Captain Chris Fraser Perry I remember the first time hearing that. It's so hard to explain and describe the gut sinking feeling of one of your friends is missing inside an enemy fort.

[Dave Rigg]

As the brigade staff we'd put the plan together. We were responsible for sending these guys in, so it's not a good feeling to see it all going wrong.

[Captain Chris Fraser Perry]

I remember Colonel McGaran coming out and saying to everyone that was in the command post, words to the effect of right guys, this, this is the plan. We, we need four volunteers to sit on the side of the Apache and they'll fly back in and at Rescue 40. And I remember because I was one of few Zulu Company guys there at the time, just saying, so I'm, I'm Zulu company. I know 4D. I want to be one of the guys that goes back to rescue him and felt like I had to do that because I was Zulu company. 40 was Zulu company. It was that close knit brotherhood of looking after each other. When he said yes, it was.

[Dave Rigg]

I.

[Captain Chris Fraser Perry]

Think that's when it's sort of my oh shit moment.

[Dave Rigg]

We don't have many options. There's more reinforcements streaming into the fort. It's a hive of activity now. They're all running around getting organized. The commanding officer briefly tells us that they're going to use Apache helicopters. I remember being quite relieved at that point because I thought, well that sounds like a much better plan. I didn't, I didn't know Apaches could do that. But then why would I? Because I'm not part of the Army Air Corps. I'm not on the Special Forces. So I assume it's something the Special Forces rehearse. And I thought, well, fantastic. We get some like some professionally trained specialists in here to sort this mess out. And then he asked for volunteers. It dawned on us that, oh right, okay, so so it's not Special Forces, it's going to be us doing this.

[Narrator]

Captain David Rigg, who was my royal engineer officer, he had the predator scope on the whole night. He knew the ground better than anyone because he was the engineer officer. He, he did the orders, preparation for the ground. So Dave Rigg volunteered immediately.

[Dave Rigg]

Everyone volunteered. The four guys that went all volunteered.

[Captain Chris Fraser Perry]

Well, everyone volunteered like absolutely everyone. Wasn't a person without the hand up. Zulu company or not, it's a British forces person that's been left behind. Everyone's volunteering to go. So Dave Rigg, he'd been watching some camera or something, so he knew a rough location of where he was as well. So Dave was one of the chosen guys.

[Dave Rigg]

I guess I knew more about what I'd volunteered to do than the others. I'd been involved in the planning. We were partly to blame for this, for this situation. So it was instinctive really.

[Captain Chris Fraser Perry]

So I just felt this overwhelming urge to volunteer to Colonel McGowan and thankfully he said yes. So I quickly went away and sort of prepped all my gear, all my kit, which is obviously good to go. I just double checked, triple checked everything. Six magazines, two high explosive grenades, two smoke grenades, a bandolier of like an extra 150 rounds, an empty bandolier that had five HE grenades in each segment of the bandolier as well. Making sure my, my ammo scales were all topped up, good to go because worst case scenario you'd be fighting your way out of there on your own.

[Dave Rigg]

As the commanding officer kind of scans across the room to select his volunteers, most of them he has to turn down because the guys in question have important jobs directing the air or the artillery or the recce troop. But the battle group engineer at this stage is not critical to the operations. So he readily accepted my offer of help. Yeah, that was this kind of oh shit moment. I'm like, oh, right, okay, now I'm, I'm going to be doing this.

[Captain Chris Fraser Perry]

I remember going past my corporal at the time and I remember going up to him and saying, my letter is under my pillow, my what if letter. And I think that's where it really hit me. Like, right, I'm about to sit on a helicopter and fly into a Taliban.

[Dave Rigg]

Fortunately.

[Tom O'Malley]

The Fort was produced by Kev Kaur.

[Rory Stewart]

I'm Rory Stewart and I want to talk about heroes. When I was a child, I imagined a heroic future for myself in which I would achieve great things and die sacrificing my life for a noble cause. Before I was 30, but my experiences in the Middle east and in politics showed me that there was something deeply wrong with with my idea of heroism from BBC Radio 4. My podcast, the Long History of Heroism explores ideas of what it meant to be a hero through time. How have these ideas changed? Who are the heroes we need today? Listen to Rory Stewart, the Long History of Heroism, first on BBC Sounds.

[Alex von Tanzelmann]

This is history's heroes, people with purpose, brave ideas and. And the courage to stand alone, including a pioneering surgeon who rebuilt the shattered faces of soldiers in the First World War.

You know, he would look at these men and he would say, don't worry, sonny, you'll have as good a face as any of us when I'm done with you.

Join me, Alex von Tanzelmann, for History's Heroes. Subscribe to History's Heroes wherever you get your podcast.