The History Podcast – The Second Map: Episode 3 – "The Battered Suitcase"
Date: September 5, 2025
Presenter: Kavita Puri
Series Producer: Ellie House
[Focus: Britain’s war against Japan in WWII, the Asia/Pacific front, memory, and family legacies.]

Episode Overview

Episode 3 of "The Second Map" confronts the aftermath of WWII on the Asian front, spotlighting the experiences of British and Commonwealth soldiers, POWs, and civilian internees under Japanese captivity, and how individual and collective memories of this conflict have faded—or been “forgotten”—in Britain and beyond. Through often-untold firsthand testimonies and new conversations with descendants, host Kavita Puri explores how the end of the war did not bring immediate freedom or closure and reflects on why these stories remain so much less prominent in the nation’s consciousness compared to the European theater.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. VE Day vs. VJ Day: Recognizing the "Forgotten" War (01:33–04:48)

• Peter Knight recalls being on duty during VE Day celebrations in Britain (01:33–02:32), while his map-keeping as a boy tracked battles in Europe and Asia.
  • “There was no point in trying to keep order. Everybody was going mad, but we were on the receiving end of all the goodwill.” (02:15)
• Morris Naylor (POW) contrasts the euphoria in Europe with the ongoing suffering in Asia. Rumors of German surrender reached their camp, but it brought “no hope. No idea of when this world was going to end. Apparently forgotten by our friends.” (03:21)
• Puri introduces why the Asian theater—specifically Britain’s war against Japan—is so absent from British collective memory, and frames the episode as a quest to bridge that gap.

2. Prisoners of War and the Thai-Burma Railway (04:49–07:06)

• Morris Naylor details the grueling routines and brutal conditions for POWs building the Thai-Burma Railway:
  • “For three years, it was dawn just before seven o’ clock... Tenko is what was the Japanese word for roll call. We then had a meal which consisted of rice, and that was it.” (05:07)
  • “I had chronic diarrhoea... that wasn’t considered bad enough, normally, to stop you going out on a working party.” (05:57)
  • “If we didn’t do it properly, the Japanese guard, they’d just beat you on the head.” (06:20)
• Emotional toll: the death and despair among POWs is palpable—“A lot of the prisoners just gave up and died.” (06:55)

3. The Atomic Bomb and Moral Ambiguity (07:54–10:22)

• News clip announces the dropping of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima. The impact of this unprecedented weapon is described: “The force from which the sun draws its power has been loosed against those who brought war to the Far East.” (07:54)
• Personal reactions:
  • “Every civilized person thought, oh, how horrible. There’s thousands being killed at one go.” (08:39, Peter Knight)
  • “But it resulted in the war ending and that must have saved millions of lives, Japanese as well as American and British.” (08:55, Peter Knight)
  • Acknowledgement of moral complexity: “Do you think that maybe some of the reason that we don't remember VJ Day as well is because of the morally ambiguous way that the war ended?”—“You could be right. Yes.” (10:22)

4. The aftermath in Japan and POW Liberation (10:28–16:40)

• Captain Java Abbas (British Indian 14th Army) describes postwar Hiroshima:
  • “I saw the wasteland and people in all kinds of terrible state with their skins coming out. And those who died were the fortunate ones.” (11:05)
  • “I think it was a crime against humanity to have dropped the bombs.” (11:48)
• The British homefront: On return, POWs and Asia veterans did not receive a hero's welcome.
  • “There was no, let’s have the flags out. Here come the boys. Each of them went as individuals to a depot where they were demobbed.” (13:00, Peter Knight)
• Sheila Brown (civilian internee): Describes camp liberation, the muted relief (“There was no great excitement... we hadn’t the energy”), and the challenge of telling her father her mother had died in camp. (16:11–17:41)
• Margie Caldicott (Sheila’s daughter): Notes the total absence of local recognition for VJ Day compared to VE Day: “Nobody asked me why I’d done that... I was celebrating VJ Day, but... I was the only one.” (18:55–19:33)
• Sheila’s legacy: Her camp music performed in the UK was “a fitting tribute to their endurance in the worst of times.” (19:55)

5. Long Shadows: Psychological and Intergenerational Impact (21:02–27:27)

• Morris Naylor, on returning from POW camp: “I became completely aloof. I couldn’t bear to be in company... I’d go up to my bedroom and burst into tears.” (21:02)
• The culture of silence:
  • “Each sister found these pictures separately and they never even spoke about them with each other.” (25:11)
  • “When they came back there was a conspiracy of silence. I think that the prisoners themselves had been told not to talk about it. Their families had been told separately not to ask about it. And then that got passed on.” (25:18)
• Morris’s breaking of silence only after visiting the war graves in Thailand (26:06): “He owed it to those men to tell the story of what had happened.” (26:06)

6. Memory, Race, and Unrecognised Contributions (28:18–35:06)

• Dr. Diya Gupta on racial dimensions: “There were far greater casualties in Europe of white British men. I think because less white lives were lost in Burma, it’s remembered less.” (28:51)
• Lt. Ali Akbar Raja (14th Punjab Regiment) recalls exclusion from the British Legion after the war: “A lot of us were there. We fought for king and country.” (30:06)
• Lack of memorialization and oral histories for Indian/Commonwealth soldiers both in Britain and South Asia. (31:47–33:39)
• Peter Johnston (Imperial War Museum): “It’s a mistake... it is a very unfortunate mistake that we weren’t able to [record more testimonies].” (33:16)

7. Japan’s Postwar Memory and Shifting Narratives (34:31–37:27)

• Yoshikuni Igarashi (Vanderbilt University): “Early on... what's left out is Asian experiences. What Japan did in Asia. Because war was defined as Pacific War, not Asia Pacific War.” (34:53)
• Occupation and narrative change: immediate postwar focus on US-Japan relations, not confronting Asian atrocities. (35:06–36:06)
• How terminology (like Shusen no Hee, “the day the war ended”) can obscure the true historical events. “As if this is natural disaster.” (37:09)

8. Living Memory, Generational Change, and Rediscovery (38:58–42:17)

• In Yorkshire, a daughter opens her father’s “battered suitcase” and discovers medals and documents from his service in India. He had never spoken of his experience.
  • “People were very modest then about things. No, pride doesn't come into it. It's a fact of life.” (39:57, Peter Blythe)
• Kavita Puri underscores the urgency of recording firsthand accounts before the last witnesses pass away.
• Professor Lucy Noakes: “Foundational myths definitely change over time. They are not fixed. They're shaped very, very much by the kind of needs, the concerns of contemporary society.” (41:31)
• The imperative for multicultural, post-imperial Britain: “If we're going to understand how we got to who we are today, that is a really important part of the story that deserves and needs to be better known.” (42:17)

9. Closing Reflections on Memory and History (42:41–44:55)

• Peter Knight, looking back: “It was a different world, it was a different world. The Pacific was a different world.” (42:41)
• Across Britain, new generations are uncovering buried family stories—creating new questions from old maps, medals, and memories.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Despair, illness, no hope. No idea of when this world was going to end. Apparently forgotten by our friends.”
  – Maurice Naylor, POW in Thailand, (03:21)
• “Every civilized person thought, oh, how horrible. There's thousands being killed at one go... But it resulted in the war ending and that must have saved millions of lives, Japanese as well as American and British.”
  – Peter Knight on atomic bomb, (08:39–08:55)
• “I saw the wasteland... with their skins coming out. And those who died were the fortunate ones. I think it was a crime against humanity to have dropped the bombs.”
  – Captain Java Abbas, on Hiroshima, (11:05–11:48)
• “No, we had a job to persuade him to claim his medals. He said, I don’t want that rubbish.”
  – On Ken, a Burma/Malaya veteran, (13:44)
• “There was a conspiracy of silence. I think that the prisoners themselves had been told not to talk about it. Their families had been told separately not to ask about it. And then that got passed on.”
  – Anne, Morris Naylor’s daughter, (25:18)
• “I think because less white lives were lost in Burma, it's remembered less. That's putting it quite starkly.”
  – Dr. Diya Gupta, (28:51)
• “Japan and the US used to be the two mutually most hated enemies... but comes the end of the war, Japan and US became the closest allies in the Pacific... In that relationship, there’s no necessity to talk about Asian experiences.”
  – Yoshikuni Igarashi, (35:37)
• “I think we owe it to the people who fought and often died on the Asian front to remember them as much as everybody else... That is a really important part of the story that deserves and needs to be better known.”
  – Professor Lucy Noakes, (41:56–42:17)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------|------------------| | VE vs. VJ Day, setting the scene | 01:33–04:48 | | Life as a POW, Thai-Burma Railway | 04:49–07:06 | | Atomic bomb & moral considerations | 07:54–10:22 | | Aftermath, liberation, public response | 10:28–16:40 | | Psychological scars & silence | 21:02–27:27 | | Race and memory, India’s story | 28:18–35:06 | | Japan’s postwar narrative | 34:31–37:27 | | Family legacies & rediscovery | 38:58–42:17 | | Final reflections | 42:41–44:55 |

Summary Tone & Style

The episode is poignant and reflective, blending vivid firsthand accounts with thoughtful historical analysis. Kavita Puri’s narration draws out not only facts but emotions, generational gaps, and the moral gray zones of war and remembrance. Voices of survivors and their families are central—measured in tone but deeply affecting. There’s a recurring theme of silence—official, familial, and national—and a call to act before memory fades entirely.

Conclusion

Episode 3, “The Battered Suitcase,” reveals that the “second map” of war—the Asian front—was never just about “foreign” battles. It touched British homes, lives, and memories in complex ways, yet collective acknowledgment lags behind that given to the European theater. Interwoven stories of trauma, modesty, silence, and the slow excavation of memory challenge listeners to expand their understanding of WWII and its legacies. The episode closes with an appeal—to recognize, record, and reflect on the plural history that shapes British society today.