Podcast Summary: "Two Nottingham Lads: 1. From One Nottingham Man to Another"
The History Podcast | BBC Radio 4 | December 24, 2025
Host: Paul Kenyon
Overview
The first episode in the "Two Nottingham Lads" series explores how two British men from the same city—Graham Phillips and Aidan Aslan—found themselves on opposing sides of the war in Ukraine. We’re taken through the dramatic prison interview between Phillips, an independent journalist seen as sympathetic to Russia, and Aslan, a Ukrainian army fighter and prisoner of war, as well as the backgrounds and ideological journeys that led them both from Nottingham to Ukraine’s conflict zones.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. The Viral Prison Interview (00:00–06:22)
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Opening Scene: The story launches inside a Russian-controlled Donetsk prison in April 2022, with Graham Phillips filming Aidan Aslan—recently captured fighting for Ukraine.
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Power Dynamic and Tension: Paul Kenyon emphasizes the menacing atmosphere, noting Aslan's subdued demeanor and Phillips's aggressive questioning style.
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Geneva Convention Concerns: Aslan states on camera that he consents to the interview, but Kenyon clarifies Aslan later told the BBC he did not genuinely consent, a violation carrying serious implications for Phillips given Geneva Convention protections for POWs.
"Aiden is staring down the barrel of a Russian firing squad with Graham Phillips filming his reaction. Two Englishmen then, far from home, enemies in a foreign war, one facing death, the other hoping for a surge in his online audience."
—Paul Kenyon, (05:07)
Notable Moment
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Phillips repeatedly presses Aslan about alleged war crimes by Ukrainian soldiers, using explicit, loaded language.
"We're talking about absolute barbarism. We're talking about videos of Russian soldiers... killed by stabbing them in the eyes, tortured, mutilated, slaughtered by your colleagues, your comrades, Aiden."
—Graham Phillips, (03:09)
2. Two Sides of the War—and the Same City (05:40–06:22)
- "From a Nottingham man to another": Phillips attempts to leverage their shared origins, framing it as a point of connection, although the situation is laden with irony and moral ambiguity.
- Consequences: Kenyon highlights the transformative, far-reaching outcomes for both men stemming from the release and spread of the video interview.
3. Background: The Paths to Donetsk (06:22–23:11)
Graham Phillips
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Early Life and Move to Ukraine: Born in Nottingham, raised in Scotland, initially pursued stand-up comedy before working in the British civil service.
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Transition to Journalist: Enamored with Ukraine while visiting for the 2012 Euros, Phillips began writing cultural and lifestyle pieces, including coverage on Ukraine’s dating scene.
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Turning Point—Euromaidan (2014): After witnessing the revolution that ousted President Yanukovich, Phillips felt uneasy about the presence of far-right elements among protesters.
"What he saw, he believed, was someone who was democratically elected being forced away by people who were, appeared to him, being bused into a music concert."
—Les Scott (long-time friend), (16:02) -
Shift to Pro-Russian Narrative: Disturbed by nationalist factions, Phillips’s reporting grew more critical of Ukraine and aligned increasingly with Russian discourses, especially on his blog and YouTube channel.
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Embedded in Donbas: He became a prolific, self-styled frontline reporter, building a sizable following with his controversial narratives.
Aidan Aslan
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Nottingham Roots and Formative Years: Grew up in Newark-on-Trent, described himself as a troubled youth but found discipline through boxing and working security.
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Early Political Awareness: Inspired not by Ukraine but by the Syrian conflict and the rise of ISIS, Aslan found himself “sickened” by terrorism and was also influenced by violent online content.
“At that point, I was looking at a lot of like open source content, videos of beheadings from either the cartel or terrorist groups… I was frustrated with the lack of care and responsibility with regards to what was happening in the Middle East.”
—Aidan Aslan, (25:48) -
Decision to Fight Abroad: At 21, Aslan left home to fight ISIS in Syria, driven by a desire to “see the real world,” much to his mother’s alarm and heartbreak.
4. The Wider Context: Reporting War, Taking Sides (23:11–29:00)
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BBC’s Ukraine Coverage: Paul Kenyon and Nick Sturdy, a seasoned BBC colleague, reflect on covering the revolution and subsequent conflict, highlighting the emotional and ethical complexity of reporting amidst propaganda and misinformation.
"When it comes to war reporting, there's sometimes a fine line between news and propaganda. Which side do we choose to believe and why?"
—Paul Kenyon, (03:27) -
Rise of Propaganda: Kenyon grapples with the proliferation of partisan narratives—noting how Phillips’s videos and reporting have become touchstones for Russian-aligned messaging online, prompting the host to reflect on the responsibilities and challenges for mainstream journalists.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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On Power and Threat in the Prison Video:
"Aiden is staring down the barrel of a Russian firing squad with Graham Phillips filming his reaction."
—Paul Kenyon, (05:07) -
On Shared Origins (Ironic Bonding):
"I'd like to say, from a Nottingham man to another, how's it been for you?"
—Graham Phillips, (05:40) -
Journalism v. Propaganda Dilemma:
"When it comes to war reporting, there's sometimes a fine line between news and propaganda. Which side do we choose to believe and why?"
—Paul Kenyon, (03:27) -
Moral Dissonance:
“He went to Ukraine as a supporter of the England football team…he loved this way of life…he can make a quick decision and just go for it.”
—Les Scott, (11:55) -
Personal Reckoning:
"It was like watching my worst nightmare play out in real time... It even left me questioning some things about my own work in the mainstream media too."
—Paul Kenyon, (09:21)
Timestamps for Important Segments
- [00:00–02:13]: Introduction, prison interview setup
- [02:13–05:07]: Content and tone of prison interview, war crimes allegations
- [06:14–06:22]: Implications for both men, their shared origins
- [09:08–10:55]: Kenyon’s personal reaction and context on Graham's actions
- [11:00–13:44]: Graham Phillips's early life, interests, and adaptation to Ukraine
- [13:44–17:03]: Euromaidan's effect, shift in worldview
- [19:22–22:32]: Phillips’s reporting style and growing online presence
- [23:11–27:52]: Aidan Aslan's background, political awakening, and decision to fight overseas
Podcast Tone & Style
- Balanced but Provocative: The episode combines immersive storytelling and background investigation with a palpable sense of personal investment from host Paul Kenyon.
- Straightforward, Analytical: The tone is unvarnished about the morally ambiguous choices facing foreign fighters and “citizen journalists.”
- Emotionally Charged: Personal testimonies—especially from Aslan and his mother—bring home the costs and contradictions of picking sides in others’ wars.
Closing & Next Episode Preview
Kenyon ends the episode with a preview of what’s to come: Aidan Aslan’s first combat in Syria, Graham Phillips’s increasing notoriety in the Donbas, and the build-up to Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022.
“Aiden Aslin’s first taste of combat was not in Ukraine at all… it would be a thousand miles to the south, fighting against ISIS in Syria. How this changed him and set him on a path that culminated in the Ukraine war captivity… is the story we’ll tell next time.”
—Paul Kenyon, (27:52)