The History Podcast: "Two Nottingham Lads"

Episode 2: Damascus to Donetsk

BBC Radio 4 | Released December 31, 2025

Overview

This episode continues the gripping dual narrative of two men from Nottingham, Aidan Aslan and Graham Phillips, who found themselves on opposing sides of the Ukraine war. Picking up in April 2022 with Aidan imprisoned in Donetsk, the episode traces both men's journeys: Aidan’s path from fighting ISIS in Syria to joining the Ukrainian marines, and Graham’s transformation from travel blogger to controversial pro-Russian war reporter. Through testimony, archival footage, and interviews, it explores their motivations, experiences, and the broader clash of narratives in modern hybrid war.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Aidan Aslan’s Propaganda Captivity (01:23–05:00)

• Setting: April 2022, Aidan is a prisoner of war in the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR), forced to record YouTube confessionals—propaganda for his Russian-backed captors.
• The Prisoner’s Voice: Despite the propaganda messaging in the videos, Aidan’s gaunt appearance betrays his dire situation.
  • Quote: “You wouldn’t guess it from the audio, but... you'd know this is a video made under duress.” – Paul Kenyon (02:11)
• Weaponized Social Media: The podcast explores the weaponization of POW messaging in 21st-century information warfare.

2. Aidan’s Road to War: Not Ukraine, but Syria (05:00–10:58)

• 2015: At age 21, Aidan volunteers to fight ISIS, joining the Kurdish YPG in Syria after connecting via Facebook.
• First Combat Encounters:
  • Quote: “I wouldn't say I was scared, it was more anxiety… Am I going to handle it or am I going to freeze?” – Aidan Aslan (06:06)
• Early Trauma: Describes the grim reality of war—decomposing bodies, minimal training, and immediate frontline exposure.
• Becoming the Warrior-Reporter: Starts sharing battlefield experiences publicly, sending messages to ISIS fighters.
  • Quote: “My message goes to the Daesh fighters… You better check yourself before you wreck yourself.” – Aidan Aslan (07:30)
• Companionship: Sean Pinner, a more experienced ex-British soldier, meets Aidan and comments on his determination and charisma.

3. From Outlaw to Outcast: Back in Britain (08:50–10:58)

• Returning Home: Twice in 2016 and 2017, Aidan is detained as a terrorism suspect due to the YPG’s connections to the PKK.

• Disillusionment: Discharged without charges, but left feeling alienated and watched. This shapes Aidan’s next pivot to Ukraine.

  • Quote: "I was just tired of having the feeling that I'm being watched 24/7." – Aidan Aslan (09:54)

4. Choosing Ukraine: Ideals, Adventure, and Belonging (10:16–13:47)

• 2018: Inspired by camaraderie and the “forgotten war,” Aidan seeks impact beyond the UK, joining the Ukrainian military via official channels, not as a freelance mercenary.

  • Quote: “I chose to go to Ukraine because at that point… people in Europe and the West... had forgotten about the fact that there was a war.” – Aidan Aslan (10:33)

• Culture Shock and Commitment: Arrives in wintry Kyiv, is struck by the city's atmosphere, and learns about Ukrainian resistance.

  • Quote: “It's the most dismal weather, like minus 20, deep snow… atmospheric.” – Aidan Aslan (11:19)

• Integration: Successfully enlists as a legitimate Ukrainian soldier, eventually transferred to Donbas.

5. Graham Phillips: The Parallel Nottingham Story (14:15–22:03)

• Meanwhile: Graham Phillips, another Nottingham native, is reporting from the other side—embedded with pro-Russian separatists.

• Reluctant Interviewee: Graham refuses to participate in the podcast, deriding the BBC as “[a] scumbag and a supporter of the Nazi Ukrainian regime” (16:18).

• Motivations Explored: Despite his collaboration with Russian state media (RT), old friend Les Scott attests to his “journalistic integrity” and genuine belief his Western audience was being misinformed.

  • Quote: “He is a real passionate Brit… RT was, unsurprisingly, the only outlet willing to show his point of view.” – Les Scott (17:44)

• Celebrity in Crimea: Graham garners local fame for giving voice to Russia-sympathetic Crimeans.

  • Quote: “It was like walking around with a celebrity. That's not an exaggeration.” – Graham’s friend (21:25)

• Complex Loyalties and Narratives: The hosts debate whether such pro-Russian Ukrainian voices are reflective of a marginalized minority or used to obscure Russian intervention.

  • Quote: “Propaganda is turbocharged when it contains at least a seed of truth.” – Paul Kenyon (23:11)

6. War as Identity: The Lure of Adventure & Reinvention (23:51–26:49)

• Self-Realization: Both Aidan and Graham—along with others like Sean Pinner—are drawn to the war not just out of principle, but to project themselves into a grand narrative.

  • Quote: “We are drawn to something because we're excited, we're interested… ways for us to project ourselves.” – Nick Sturdy (23:51)

• Aidan as Reporter and Soldier: Initially dreams of going into journalism, but the reality of fighting takes over. He grows attached to Ukraine and to a local woman (now his fiancée).

  • Quote: “I'd say... I had aspirations to go into the independent journalist route... and share what's really happening.” – Aidan Aslan (24:35)

• Trench Warfare Reality: Life settles into a grim routine—digging, surviving, occasional firefights.

• Sean Pinner Joins: Aidan convinces his old comrade to come to Ukraine; both men soon find love and community far from home.

  • Quote: “I didn't go home for five years... that seemed to appeal to me.” – Sean Pinner (26:29)

7. The Russian Buildup and Full-Scale Invasion (27:29–29:18)

• Escalation: The podcast details mounting tension in 2021 as Russia masses troops, with both Aidan and Sean predicting an impending full-scale invasion.

  • Quote: “We were pretty 100% certain that it’s going to happen.” – Aidan Aslan (27:29)

• Reality Arrives: In February 2022, Aidan is on the frontline near Mariupol as Russia invades. He describes hearing Grad rocket salvos and realizing “here we go.” (28:48–29:18)

  • Quote: “As soon as I heard that, I knew something had started… Oh, God, here we go.” – Aidan Aslan (28:48)

8. Encirclement and Impossible Choices (29:40–30:13)

• Trapped: Aidan’s commander tells him their unit is encircled: “It’s either going to be death or capture.”
  • Quote: “It's either going to be death or capture. That will be the way we get out of this.” – Aidan Aslan (29:40)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On propaganda & captivity:
  “Aiden is a prisoner of war. The video is propaganda. He's been forced to take part by his captors.” – Paul Kenyon (02:11)
• On the reality of war:
  “I didn't really feel anything. It was more like the reality, like, this is the war zone.” – Aidan Aslan (06:38)
• On motivations & sense of self:
  “We are drawn to something because we're excited, we're interested, we want to find out something. But also there are ways for us to project ourselves, to realize ourselves and to inscribe ourselves in a story that we believe in.” – Nick Sturdy (23:51)
• On propaganda's insidiousness:
  “Propaganda is turbocharged when it contains at least a seed of truth.” – Paul Kenyon (23:11)
• On looming defeat:
  “It’s either going to be death or capture. That will be the way we get out of this.” – Aidan Aslan (29:40)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:23 | Aidan’s forced YouTube videos as POW in Donetsk | | 05:00 | Aidan’s decision to join Kurdish forces in Syria | | 08:29 | Arrival of Sean Pinner; life in Syria | | 10:16 | Move to Ukraine, enlistment and ideological motivations | | 14:15 | Graham Phillips’ emergence as war reporter, reluctance to engage with the BBC | | 20:06 | “A Brit in Crimea”: Graham and Les travel the annexed peninsula | | 23:51 | Reflections on war as a form of self-realization | | 26:29 | Sean joins Aidan in Ukraine | | 27:29 | Buildup to the Russian full-scale invasion | | 28:48 | February 2022: The invasion begins, Aidan’s frontline perspective | | 29:40 | Aidan’s unit is encircled, faces fate: surrender or death |

Flow & Tone

The episode deftly weaves first-person testimony, archival news, and contemporary commentary. Paul Kenyon narrates with a measured, critical tone, balancing empathy for both subjects while scrutinizing their choices and the ways personal narratives intersect with larger geopolitical propaganda.

Conclusion

This episode portrays individual choices in the context of war, propaganda, and personal identity. More than a tale of two men, it’s a lens on the murky realities of modern conflict—where truth is contested, and home becomes a matter of conviction, not just nationality.

Next Episode Tease:
The story escalates as Aidan faces the grim reality of captivity and the prospect of death in besieged Donetsk, while both men’s destinies converge on the frontlines of history.