Two Nottingham Lads: 2. Damascus to Donetsk

Summary

The History Podcast: "Two Nottingham Lads"

Episode 2: Damascus to Donetsk

BBC Radio 4 | Released December 31, 2025

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Overview

This episode continues the gripping dual narrative of two men from Nottingham, Aidan Aslan and Graham Phillips, who found themselves on opposing sides of the Ukraine war. Picking up in April 2022 with Aidan imprisoned in Donetsk, the episode traces both men's journeys: Aidan’s path from fighting ISIS in Syria to joining the Ukrainian marines, and Graham’s transformation from travel blogger to controversial pro-Russian war reporter. Through testimony, archival footage, and interviews, it explores their motivations, experiences, and the broader clash of narratives in modern hybrid war.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Aidan Aslan’s Propaganda Captivity (01:23–05:00)

• Setting: April 2022, Aidan is a prisoner of war in the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR), forced to record YouTube confessionals—propaganda for his Russian-backed captors.
• The Prisoner’s Voice: Despite the propaganda messaging in the videos, Aidan’s gaunt appearance betrays his dire situation.
  • Quote: “You wouldn’t guess it from the audio, but... you'd know this is a video made under duress.” – Paul Kenyon (02:11)
• Weaponized Social Media: The podcast explores the weaponization of POW messaging in 21st-century information warfare.

2. Aidan’s Road to War: Not Ukraine, but Syria (05:00–10:58)

• 2015: At age 21, Aidan volunteers to fight ISIS, joining the Kurdish YPG in Syria after connecting via Facebook.
• First Combat Encounters:
  • Quote: “I wouldn't say I was scared, it was more anxiety… Am I going to handle it or am I going to freeze?” – Aidan Aslan (06:06)
• Early Trauma: Describes the grim reality of war—decomposing bodies, minimal training, and immediate frontline exposure.
• Becoming the Warrior-Reporter: Starts sharing battlefield experiences publicly, sending messages to ISIS fighters.
  • Quote: “My message goes to the Daesh fighters… You better check yourself before you wreck yourself.” – Aidan Aslan (07:30)
• Companionship: Sean Pinner, a more experienced ex-British soldier, meets Aidan and comments on his determination and charisma.

3. From Outlaw to Outcast: Back in Britain (08:50–10:58)

• Returning Home: Twice in 2016 and 2017, Aidan is detained as a terrorism suspect due to the YPG’s connections to the PKK.

• Disillusionment: Discharged without charges, but left feeling alienated and watched. This shapes Aidan’s next pivot to Ukraine.

  • Quote: "I was just tired of having the feeling that I'm being watched 24/7." – Aidan Aslan (09:54)

4. Choosing Ukraine: Ideals, Adventure, and Belonging (10:16–13:47)

• 2018: Inspired by camaraderie and the “forgotten war,” Aidan seeks impact beyond the UK, joining the Ukrainian military via official channels, not as a freelance mercenary.

  • Quote: “I chose to go to Ukraine because at that point… people in Europe and the West... had forgotten about the fact that there was a war.” – Aidan Aslan (10:33)

• Culture Shock and Commitment: Arrives in wintry Kyiv, is struck by the city's atmosphere, and learns about Ukrainian resistance.

  • Quote: “It's the most dismal weather, like minus 20, deep snow… atmospheric.” – Aidan Aslan (11:19)

• Integration: Successfully enlists as a legitimate Ukrainian soldier, eventually transferred to Donbas.

5. Graham Phillips: The Parallel Nottingham Story (14:15–22:03)

• Meanwhile: Graham Phillips, another Nottingham native, is reporting from the other side—embedded with pro-Russian separatists.

• Reluctant Interviewee: Graham refuses to participate in the podcast, deriding the BBC as “[a] scumbag and a supporter of the Nazi Ukrainian regime” (16:18).

• Motivations Explored: Despite his collaboration with Russian state media (RT), old friend Les Scott attests to his “journalistic integrity” and genuine belief his Western audience was being misinformed.

  • Quote: “He is a real passionate Brit… RT was, unsurprisingly, the only outlet willing to show his point of view.” – Les Scott (17:44)

• Celebrity in Crimea: Graham garners local fame for giving voice to Russia-sympathetic Crimeans.

  • Quote: “It was like walking around with a celebrity. That's not an exaggeration.” – Graham’s friend (21:25)

• Complex Loyalties and Narratives: The hosts debate whether such pro-Russian Ukrainian voices are reflective of a marginalized minority or used to obscure Russian intervention.

  • Quote: “Propaganda is turbocharged when it contains at least a seed of truth.” – Paul Kenyon (23:11)

6. War as Identity: The Lure of Adventure & Reinvention (23:51–26:49)

• Self-Realization: Both Aidan and Graham—along with others like Sean Pinner—are drawn to the war not just out of principle, but to project themselves into a grand narrative.

  • Quote: “We are drawn to something because we're excited, we're interested… ways for us to project ourselves.” – Nick Sturdy (23:51)

• Aidan as Reporter and Soldier: Initially dreams of going into journalism, but the reality of fighting takes over. He grows attached to Ukraine and to a local woman (now his fiancée).

  • Quote: “I'd say... I had aspirations to go into the independent journalist route... and share what's really happening.” – Aidan Aslan (24:35)

• Trench Warfare Reality: Life settles into a grim routine—digging, surviving, occasional firefights.

• Sean Pinner Joins: Aidan convinces his old comrade to come to Ukraine; both men soon find love and community far from home.

  • Quote: “I didn't go home for five years... that seemed to appeal to me.” – Sean Pinner (26:29)

7. The Russian Buildup and Full-Scale Invasion (27:29–29:18)

• Escalation: The podcast details mounting tension in 2021 as Russia masses troops, with both Aidan and Sean predicting an impending full-scale invasion.

  • Quote: “We were pretty 100% certain that it’s going to happen.” – Aidan Aslan (27:29)

• Reality Arrives: In February 2022, Aidan is on the frontline near Mariupol as Russia invades. He describes hearing Grad rocket salvos and realizing “here we go.” (28:48–29:18)

  • Quote: “As soon as I heard that, I knew something had started… Oh, God, here we go.” – Aidan Aslan (28:48)

8. Encirclement and Impossible Choices (29:40–30:13)

• Trapped: Aidan’s commander tells him their unit is encircled: “It’s either going to be death or capture.”
  • Quote: “It's either going to be death or capture. That will be the way we get out of this.” – Aidan Aslan (29:40)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On propaganda & captivity:
  “Aiden is a prisoner of war. The video is propaganda. He's been forced to take part by his captors.” – Paul Kenyon (02:11)
• On the reality of war:
  “I didn't really feel anything. It was more like the reality, like, this is the war zone.” – Aidan Aslan (06:38)
• On motivations & sense of self:
  “We are drawn to something because we're excited, we're interested, we want to find out something. But also there are ways for us to project ourselves, to realize ourselves and to inscribe ourselves in a story that we believe in.” – Nick Sturdy (23:51)
• On propaganda's insidiousness:
  “Propaganda is turbocharged when it contains at least a seed of truth.” – Paul Kenyon (23:11)
• On looming defeat:
  “It’s either going to be death or capture. That will be the way we get out of this.” – Aidan Aslan (29:40)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:23 | Aidan’s forced YouTube videos as POW in Donetsk | | 05:00 | Aidan’s decision to join Kurdish forces in Syria | | 08:29 | Arrival of Sean Pinner; life in Syria | | 10:16 | Move to Ukraine, enlistment and ideological motivations | | 14:15 | Graham Phillips’ emergence as war reporter, reluctance to engage with the BBC | | 20:06 | “A Brit in Crimea”: Graham and Les travel the annexed peninsula | | 23:51 | Reflections on war as a form of self-realization | | 26:29 | Sean joins Aidan in Ukraine | | 27:29 | Buildup to the Russian full-scale invasion | | 28:48 | February 2022: The invasion begins, Aidan’s frontline perspective | | 29:40 | Aidan’s unit is encircled, faces fate: surrender or death |

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Flow & Tone

The episode deftly weaves first-person testimony, archival news, and contemporary commentary. Paul Kenyon narrates with a measured, critical tone, balancing empathy for both subjects while scrutinizing their choices and the ways personal narratives intersect with larger geopolitical propaganda.

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Conclusion

This episode portrays individual choices in the context of war, propaganda, and personal identity. More than a tale of two men, it’s a lens on the murky realities of modern conflict—where truth is contested, and home becomes a matter of conviction, not just nationality.

Next Episode Tease:
The story escalates as Aidan faces the grim reality of captivity and the prospect of death in besieged Donetsk, while both men’s destinies converge on the frontlines of history.

Transcript

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[Paul Kenyon]

You're about to listen to The History Podcast 2 Nottingham Lads episodes of this series will be released weekly wherever you get your podcasts. But if you're in the UK, the whole series is available right now, first on BBC Sounds. It's April 2022 from a featureless room inside a Donetsk prison, Adan Aslan, a British man from Nottingham, is doing a YouTube Q&A video about his time serving in the Ukrainian Marines. It's titled Greetings from Custody.

[Aidan Aslan]

So my name's Aidan Aslan. For those of you who follow me before on Instagram, you'll know that I've been serving in the Ukrainian military for the past nearly four years now.

[Paul Kenyon]

You wouldn't guess it from the audio, but if you could see the look in Aydan's eyes, his gaunt, sallow face, you'd know that this is a video made under duress. Aydan is a prisoner of war. The video is propaganda. He's been forced to take part by his captors.

[Aidan Aslan]

This is an opportunity for you guys to ask me questions about what I think of my service like so far.

[Paul Kenyon]

This is just one of a series of videos made of Aydin whilst he was awaiting trial in Russian occupied Donetsk now they act as a kind of time capsule detailing his life as a pow, but not his real life, rather the life his captors want you to believe. This next video is called My Confession, the Beginning.

[Aidan Aslan]

Just so people understand. Like my daily diet for dinner we had mashed potato with like fish. So it's good in my book. As you can see, I've got a bit of a, bit of a fat coming back to me now. I'm eating good.

[Paul Kenyon]

So compare this video to the interview that Graham Phillips filmed just weeks before and Aidan looks even more dead eyed and now pretty malnourished too. Eating good, he certainly was not. But these videos were released every few days and uploaded to a YouTube channel in Aydin's name by his legal representative who'd been appointed by the Russian backed administration. His mainly pro Russian audience was following the script too.

[Aidan Aslan]

I got the first message from Charles, he said, what signs of Neo Nazism did you see in other Marine units? Like I've seen the Tatung Chevron. So like it's like the SS division like logo.

[Paul Kenyon]

As the video series goes on, Aidan starts detailing the legal proceedings that have begun against him in the Donetsk People's Republic. This one is titled Waiting for the Trial.

[Aidan Aslan]

For those who don't know, like, I'm now officially being charged as a mercenary in the Donetsk People's Republic. Now I'm waiting to go to trial and see what the judge and jury say.

[Paul Kenyon]

This is a war fought not just on battlefields, but also online and with a very 21st century flavor. POWs like Aidan were forced to make videos lying about their experiences in the form of self shot monologues, influencer style, like some twisted viral campaign. But in the background, the stakes couldn't be higher. A trial and a potential death sentence awaits. I'm Paul Kenyon and for BBC Radio 4 and the History Podcast, this is Two Nottingham Lads, a story about how two men from the same British city end up on opposite sides in the war in Ukraine. Episode 2 Damascus to Donetsk. Let's return to Aden's path to Ukraine. Picking up his story back in early 2015. At the age of 21 and without any military experience to speak of, Adin Aslan is headed off to fight in his first war. But not the one raging in the Donbas. He was off to fight against isis. Aden boarded a flight to northern Iraq for a rendezvous with handlers that he'd contacted on Facebook. Then on to Syria, where he joined the ypg, a Kurdish militia group.

[Aidan Aslan]

I wouldn't say I was scared it was more anxiety to a degree. And one of the thoughts that did go through my mind is how I thought I would cope in a combat situation. Am I going to be able to handle it or am I going to freeze?

[Paul Kenyon]

It wouldn't be long before he experienced the combat he feared or craved. But the training was minimal. A couple of rounds fired off on an AK47 and apparently he was good to go.

[Aidan Aslan]

We were hitchhiking our way to the front line, and as we got closer, we're just going through these deserted villages on this main road. And I saw that there was a motorbike and there was like, just two bodies, like, on the side that were not bloated, but they. They were starting to get that, like, tang of, like, smell when they've been in the sun too long. I didn't really feel anything. It was more like the reality, like, this is the war zone.

[Paul Kenyon]

Aiden seemed to slip into life on the front line quite easily. He saw fighting in some of the conflict's most brutal campaigns, and by all accounts, he loved it. He started doing his own independent reporting out there, too. Here's Aydan speaking to the Kurdish news agency anf news back in 2015.

[Aidan Aslan]

My message goes to the dash fighters that probably are watching this. You've got nowhere to go. You've got nowhere to hide. You can either surrender or you can die. So you better check yourself before you wreck yourself.

[Paul Kenyon]

Daesh is an Arabic term for isis, by the way. Syria attracted a lot of overseas volunteers. Canadians, Americans, even Ukrainians. There were other Brits there too.

[Sean Pinner]

I'm Sean Pinner. I'm a former British serviceman. He fought alongside Adin in Syria.

[Paul Kenyon]

Sean Pinner was much less green, militarily speaking, than Aden. He'd already served in the British army years before. But he had similar motivations to go to Syria as a volunteer. Infuriated that the west, in his mind, was not doing enough to stop ISIS, he arrived in Syria in 2016, when Aiden had already established something of a reputation.

[Sean Pinner]

They tell me this English guy's coming, he's quite well known. And they were quite shocked that they didn't know this guy, Aidan Aslan. And then in walked Aiden. And Aidan's got an uncanny knack of making friends very, very quickly. I got talking to him and that's where really our friendship started. He loved it out there. This is where he wanted to be and he wanted to help the Kurds.

[Paul Kenyon]

Aidan did two trips to Syria to fight alongside the Kurds. From close quarters combat to heavy shelling, he Faced down death plenty of times. The trauma of these experiences, he tells me, has never really left him. But on both occasions when he returned to the UK in 2016 and 2017, there was no hero's welcome. Arrested as a terror suspect, Aden was held for two days in custody. Facing interrogation, he had his passport withheld by the police for another eight months. He may have been fighting against isis, but the Kurdish YPG isn't exactly the Red Cross. It's an offshoot of the pkk, which was a proscribed organisation at the time. The line between terrorist and freedom fighter is often just a matter of perspective. Aidan was never formally charged, but the experience only fueled his disillusion with the British establishment.

[Aidan Aslan]

By this point, I was already looking at emigrating out of the UK because I was just tired of having the feeling that I'm being watched 24 7. And I started looking at Ukraine because I knew from my friend who I was speaking with in Syria that they accept foreigners into an official military capacity.

[Paul Kenyon]

For veterans of Syria, Ukraine was a place they could get more military action. And when Aden travelled there in 2018, the Donbas War was very much ongoing. But according to him, his decision to fight was also a moral one.

[Aidan Aslan]

I chose to go to Ukraine because at that point in time the vast majority of people in Europe and the west, they pretty much forgotten about the fact that there was a war going on in Ukraine. I had probably no impact on the battlefield situation, but at the end of the day I can go to my grave knowing that I tried to do something.

[Paul Kenyon]

Kiev when you first arrive is something you never forget. The snow covered Byzantine domes of St. Sophia's Cathedral, those faceless Soviet era apartment blocks, the bone aching cold. It's like a noir film with a punk soundtrack. Aiden was captivated.

[Aidan Aslan]

I arrived there like mid February like it's, it's the most dismal like weather, like it's probably like minus like 20 deep snow and that sort of like Eastern European like vibe and look and it was just so atmospheric, like going into Kyiv with that, with like the weather and everything. And I arrive at my hotel, my, my American friend Alex, like he shows me around Kiev and takes me to Maidan to go see where the protests occurred.

[Paul Kenyon]

Aiden learned about the recent history of Ukraine, the decades of Russian domination, the 2014 Maidan Revolution. He soon fell in love with the place and decided to stay.

[Aidan Aslan]

I'll definitely say it's my home. When I came here in 2018, I never imagined that I would be as invested and long term as I was.

[Paul Kenyon]

Far from being a mercenary, as Aidan's interviewer Graham Phillips alleges in that video in the Donetsk prison. On arrival in Ukraine, Aiden immediately set about securing an official contract to join the Ukrainian military, a pathway that many foreigners have used to secure citizenship.

[Aidan Aslan]

When I turned up to the commissariat, which is what they call the recruitment officers for the military, we turned up and spoke to one of the officers there and he was more like, curious, like, why we were there. I was like, we want to join the Ukrainian military. And he was more bewildered, like, but you're British, like, why would you want to join?

[Paul Kenyon]

Confused they may well have been, but Aiden was standing before them a fit young recruit determined to fight. He passed his medical, got his documents, completed his training, and then he was off to Eastern Ukraine.

[Aidan Aslan]

We then were moved from Mykolaiv to Donbass with our units and we spent the next 21 hours just in the back of a military truck in like the most cramped position until we eventually got there.

[Paul Kenyon]

He'd arrived in the Donbass where his fellow soldiers were trying to hold back Russian and separatist advances. Even then, in 2018, when the world was hardly watching, hiding in a trench, looking out for drones and movements of Russian artillery, Aden's war had begun.

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[Graham Phillips]

So it was the first time I've been on the front lines for a little while here in Dumbass. It's been interesting to return, to be in the scene, to feel it, to do a bit.

[Paul Kenyon]

Meanwhile, as Aiden was getting stuck into the Donbass War in 2018, just a stone's throw away, another Nottingham man is thrusting himself into danger and peril to film his YouTube videos. Although, as we heard last time, self styled independent journalist Graham Phillips had taken a very different path to get here.

[Graham Phillips]

Just to be a bit careful and whatnot. But it's interesting to be back.

[Paul Kenyon]

Albeit those reporting clips were taken from Graham's video titled Frontline War Update Donbass from the Trenches and then in brackets reportage, they show Graham roaming around the front lines with separatist soldiers from the Donetsk People's Republic. There's an unmistakable parallel with Aiden. While Graham isn't fighting, he left the UK with no combat experience and little background in journalism, but quickly placed himself in the middle of a war zone as With Aidan, we did actually approach Graham about contributing to this documentary series. My colleague Nick Sturdy, who I was making documentaries with in Ukraine, had already been in contact with him in 2015. But while Graham was happy to deal with the BBC back then, in 2025, it was a different story.

[Nick Sturdy]

So I reached out to Graham Phillips, who I'd been in touch with the years before, and told him that we're making a podcast and asked whether he wanted to be involved.

[Paul Kenyon]

He was reluctant, and because he said no, we decided we'd contact some of his friends, people who knew him well, so at least we would get some kind of understanding. And straight away, he came back again, didn't he?

[Nick Sturdy]

That's right. He came back again and he said that he was making a complaint to.

[Paul Kenyon]

The BBC just about the fact that we were contacting his friends.

[Nick Sturdy]

That's right. He wrote to our colleague and called him a scumbag and a supporter of the Nazi Ukrainian regime.

[Paul Kenyon]

So we then reached back out to Graham, didn't we, to clear the air, I guess, and to see one last time if we might get him for an interview. But we got another email back.

[Nick Sturdy]

That's right, yeah. It said, I will not cooperate in your podcast in any way beyond the excellent and comprehensive documents submitted to you by his lawyer, Jvanka Savage. It is a real shame because we genuinely wanted Graham Phillips to be able to tell his own story and tell us and an audience what happened in the way that he saw it happened.

[Paul Kenyon]

That friend we reached out to to find out more about Graham was Les Scott. He was more than happy to be involved in our show. Well, this is extraordinary technical skills we've all got. I'm in West London, you're in Espana.

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[Paul Kenyon]

After Graham was driving, transformed by the events in Maidan, his time covering the front lines in the Donbas cemented his newfound career as a war journalist. Les remembers watching the early videos he made as a stringer for the Russian state broadcaster, Russia Today. But rather than simply being hired to peddle Kremlin propaganda, Les believes it was a sense of journalistic integrity that motivated his old friend.

[Advertiser]

I think from his perspective, he was seeing something with his own eyes, but he was looking at the media, you know, from his own country that he loves, by the way. He is a real passionate Brit. He felt that they needed to know that everything isn't the way it's being portrayed. So at that time, RT was, unsurprisingly, the Only outlet that was willing to show his point of view.

[Paul Kenyon]

Graham's time working for Russia Today was short lived. His own independent YouTube videos became his real passion. Gone were the blogs about Ukrainian women and in came videos detailing the war in Ukraine up close from a perspective you'd be unlikely to see in the Western media.

[Graham Phillips]

Hello, this is Graham here in the town of Purvel Market in the Lugansk People's Republic. Now, this is a town that became the real burning hell unearthed during the heat of the conflict of the war here in 2014, 2015.

[Paul Kenyon]

These kinds of videos showing Graham intrepidly exploring shell ravaged buildings in destroyed towns on the Donbas front line were getting an incredible amount of traction online. He would go on to create some 2,000 YouTube videos with total views in excess of 110 million. At his channel's peak, he had around 330,000 subscribers. These clips are from a dramatic video titled War in Donbass Hell on Earth to Reconstruction.

[Graham Phillips]

We're showing here just a couple of hours ago. And you can see the destruction force all around me, smashed detritus bits of this building, which was serving lunch when Shelley hit.

[Paul Kenyon]

So people, during this period, his views seemed to become more entrenched and his pieces more ambitious. Something Les Scott found when he joined Graham in Crimea to make a feature length documentary.

[Advertiser]

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[Paul Kenyon]

The film came out in 2018 and even had a premiere in Moscow. It sees Les and Graham traveling around Crimea, partying, visiting tourist sites and interviewing locals about life under Russian rule following the annexation of the peninsula four years earlier. Here's a clip from it showing Graham and Les chatting to a Ukrainian man. Graham seems pleased with the answers he's getting as he translates them for Les.

[Graham Phillips]

This man's from Kiev.

[Advertiser]

Les from Kiev, okay. And, well, I'm from Scotland. Do you think people from Britain should come here on holiday?

[Graham Phillips]

But when Alexander thinks about Crimea, he thinks of the city of Sevastopol, which is a city of Russian naval glory. And it's inconceivable that we'd ever have NATO troops there or be in Europe. He says that's a pure Russian city. So this man is a Ukrainian man.

[Paul Kenyon]

Unsurprisingly, they didn't find too many critical voices in Crimea when I was there in 2014, those loyal to Ukraine were already trying to leave or learning to keep their mouths shut. But for those of a pro Russian persuasion, Graham was something of a celebrity.

[Advertiser]

I thought we were going to get there, and I was going to. We were going to have mobs chasing us, people saying, oh, you. You're that propagandist. And it was nothing like that. It was like walking around with a celebrity. That's not an exaggeration. Some people were emotional, Some people were in tears, you know, because they said, thank you. You're the only person who's from a Western origin who's telling people how we feel. And I would guess that if you were going to ask what drives Graham as an individual, to do what he does so passionately, provocatively, then that's it.

[Paul Kenyon]

Les raises an interesting point. You see, there are many Ukrainians in Crimea and in the east of the country who are genuinely sympathetic to Russia, ones who Western media rarely speak to or even about. Nick and I have met many of them. Do you think that the Ukrainian authorities are going to do anything to try and win this place back? All people who is here?

[Graham Phillips]

No. Like Ukrainian government, K. Parliament.

[Nick Sturdy]

What's also interesting is that it's portrayed as a very black and white thing, that this was Russian intervention and manipulation, which certainly existed. But at the same time, there were genuinely local people who were worried by what had happened in Kyiv. And I remember being told by a taxi driver who took me from Donetsk airport to the center of town that this is a democracy. We didn't like the previous president, Yushenko, who was pro Western. We voted him out. Why did they overthrow Yanukovych? Why didn't they just vote him out? Well, I have to say, and I thought at the time that he had a point.

[Paul Kenyon]

Graham would say these are the people marginalized by the Ukrainian state and largely ignored by Western media. I would say they represent a minority of people across Ukraine as a whole who are being used to obscure larger issues. Not least that Maidan was a people's revolution caused by President Yanukovych's attempt to reattach Ukraine to Russia. But propaganda is turbocharged when it contains at least a seed of truth. Graham Phillips may be easy to dismiss, but he is, like it or not, and I don't much like it at all, a journalist like me, I wonder.

[Nick Sturdy]

Whether actually what all four of us doing, you and I, Paul and Aidan, Aslan and Graham Phillips possibly is. We are drawn to something because we're excited, we're interested, we want to find out something. But also there are ways for us to project ourselves, to realize ourselves and to inscribe ourselves in a story that we believe in as part of our sense of ourselves.

[Paul Kenyon]

Graham remained in the donbass throughout the late 2010s, but by 2018, our other Nottingham lad, Aiden Aslan, had also arrived in the region. And he too felt compelled to report and broadcast what he saw as the true nature of, of the conflict.

[Aidan Aslan]

I'd say, like, before the invasion, I had aspirations to, like, go into the independent, like, journalist route. When I came to Ukraine, joined the military, it was after a year that I decided to start a social media account because at that point no one in the west knew exactly what was going on in Ukraine. And you can travel to eastern Ukraine, to places such as Mariupol, which is only 20 minutes down the road from where the front line is. So that puts into perspective, like, how close the war is to the people there.

[Paul Kenyon]

But yet, but beyond the reporting, Aden was in the thick of war. He served a number of roles in the military, eventually ending up in a heavy mortar unit, loading shells and plotting Russian positions to attack. But he was no longer motivated simply by a worthy but abstract cause. He'd fallen in love with the country, but also with a Ukrainian woman who would soon become his fiance. Aiden was now fighting with a real passion for his adopted land in the besieged trenches of the Donbass.

[Aidan Aslan]

Day to day, like life in the trench at that point, it was pretty, like, robotic. Both sides had sort of a routine. So in the daytime, guys would be digging, improving the position, and then it would normally be around like evening time when guys would start shooting at each other like it was like some unofficial agreement.

[Paul Kenyon]

The war was a slow First World War style trudge in the frozen black soil of Eastern Ukraine. Not the most appealing of conflicts to throw yourself into as a Brit. But he wasn't the only one to sign up. Sean Pinner, Aiden's comrade in Syria, had now been convinced to join him.

[Sean Pinner]

First of all, I just went, no, I'm not interested in doing that. I've got no interest to go and fight Russians at all. But once he'd got over there and I thought I'd go and visit to see what it was about. And I didn't go home for five years. I mean, I can go on all day. That seemed to appeal to me. And being compared to England, it's like a marble in a tobacco tin.

[Paul Kenyon]

All our characters seem to have been left exhilarated by their reinventions in a foreign land. And Sean fell in love with a Ukrainian woman too, like Aiden, like Graham. He went on to marry her, learned the language, and was soon using his experience from the British army to train Ukrainians how to fight from his base in the southern Black Sea city of marup. But by 2021, Sha and Aiden both felt that the stalemate of trench warfare was changing. Things were heating up.

[Aidan Aslan]

If you Remember back in April 2021, the Russian forces, they moved a lot of military equipment to the borders of Donbas and also Crimea, but they didn't invade. And I remember saying to a friend that I guarantee you this is just them testing the water and something in the future will happen. And myself, like Sean, like, we, we were pretty 100% certain that it's going to happen.

[Sean Pinner]

My wife wanted to spend $7,000 on the new kitchen in the Left bank in Mariopa, on our house. And I was like, I don't know about that. I thought, there's something telling me in 2022. I was going, I know, don't know. My wife's going, no, we sort this out all the time. And, you know, we're brothers, we argue. And I said, kim, the van ex Crimea. I've just spent the last four years fighting them on the front lines and they're trying to invade every day.

[Paul Kenyon]

The drumbeats of war were growing louder. And by early 2022, with Putin's troops pouring into camps along the border, the noise had become deafening. And then in the early hours at the 24th of February, it began.

[Graham Phillips]

Our main news this morning, President Putin has announced a major military operation against Ukraine and warned that anyone who tries to interfere will face retaliation.

[Aidan Aslan]

When the full scale invasion started, I was on a mortar position probably like half an hour down the road from Mariupol itself. And I remember hearing distinctly in the background, I could hear Grad rockets being used. And as soon as I heard that, I knew, I knew something had started. And I quickly woke my command up to just let him know. And I remember hearing, and I was like, oh, God, here we go. We got called into our first fire mission. So it was probably around 4am when we started getting to work.

[Paul Kenyon]

As Russian forces invaded, Aden was in his trench in eastern eastern Ukraine on the front line of the defense. But with the Russians driving deep into Ukraine from north, east and south, and the world expecting a swift Moscow victory, Aiden was facing a life or death decision.

[Aidan Aslan]

I remember I was speaking with my commander at the time and he, he said that we're now encircled. It's either going to be death or, or capture. That will be the way we get out of this.

[Paul Kenyon]

Next time on 2 Nottingham lads war comes to Kiev. The commander of that unit walked over to the car and was pointing his gun at us. Aiden faces a grim choice.

[Aidan Aslan]

My commander, he came up to me and he said, I've got a choice. I I've got to be quick on it.

[Paul Kenyon]

And our two Two Nottingham lads meet in Donetsk.

[Aidan Aslan]

He didn't acknowledge me at all until the camera was set up.

[Paul Kenyon]

Two Nottingham Lads is a message heard production for BBC Radio 4. It was presented by me, Paul Kenyon and produced by Harry Stott. Listen first on BBC Sounds hello, it's Ray Winstone. I'm here to tell you about my podcast on BBC Radio, History's Toughest Heroes. I've got stories about the pioneers, the rebels, the outcasts who define tough.

[Ray Winstone]

And that was the first time that anybody ever ran a car up that fast with no tires on.

[Paul Kenyon]

It almost feels like your eyeballs are.

[Ray Winstone]

Going to come out of your head.

[Advertiser]

Tough enough for you?

[Paul Kenyon]

Subscribe to History's Toughest Heroes on BBC Sounds.

[Ray Winstone]

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