Two Nottingham Lads: 3. Six Weeks in Mariupol

Summary

The History Podcast (BBC Radio 4)

Two Nottingham Lads: Episode 3 – Six Weeks in Mariupol

Release Date: January 7, 2026
Host/Narration: Paul Kenyon

---

Episode Overview

This episode follows the harrowing journey of Aidan Aslan, a British-Ukrainian soldier, and his friend Sean Pinner, as they are caught in the siege of Mariupol in early 2022. The story weaves through the chaos of the Russian invasion, personal decisions at the front, desperate survival during the siege, their ultimate capture, and the psychological and physical torment endured in captivity. Meanwhile, Graham Phillips—another Nottingham native—appears as a pro-Russian journalist who interviews Aidan under duress, highlighting a deeply human and disturbing collision of lives from the same British city on opposite sides of war.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Aidan’s Capture and Show Trial

• [01:02–03:56] Aidan Aslan is captured by Russian-backed DPR forces, labeled a "Nazi war criminal" and accused of being a mercenary—a crime carrying the death penalty.
• [03:22] Aidan is coerced to make propaganda videos:

  "It's the third day of my court trial. I pleaded guilty on all three charges. The prosecutors asked for the death sentence. So, yeah, I just want to let people know this could be my final video. I'm praying to God." — Aidan Aslan

• [04:18] He expresses his emotional and spiritual state post-sentencing:

  "People are wondering how I feel right now, like after, after the sentence. I'd say emotional, like scared, worried. Speak to God quite a lot, like every day." — Aidan Aslan

2. The Siege of Mariupol

• [06:05–07:06] The episode rewinds to the initial invasion (Feb. 24, 2022), placing Aidan in the midst of battle near Pavlopil:

  "When the invasion happened, we went out to do our first fire mission. It was completely hell on earth with the sound... obviously the realization is set in, okay, like, now it's war." — Aidan Aslan

• [11:11–12:45] The Mariupol steelworks becomes a refuge for trapped Ukrainian soldiers, described as an eerie, industrial “city within a city.”

3. Survival and Decision Under Siege

• [13:16–15:23] With food and ammunition exhausted, soldiers must choose between desperate escape attempts or surrender:

  "I could either go with him and those that are going to attempt to break out... or I could choose to walk out... or I could stay in the bunker and officially surrender..." — Aidan Aslan [13:16]
  "Because I was British, I was never going to surrender... I joined the vehicles and the lorries going out." — Sean Pinner [14:20]
  "At one point I was listening to music and watching at the sunrise and I'm thinking, well this is the last beautiful thing that I will see." — Prebek [14:41]

• [15:23–16:16] Aidan elects to surrender, contacts his mother:

  "'Mum, things are really bad. We're gonna have to surrender. But he said, if you don't hear from me, just know that I love you and try not to worry too much.' Well, that was it, basically. Then I was crying, and I was just so emotional." — Angela Aslan (Aidan’s mother) [15:57]

4. Capture and Abuse

• [18:29–21:20] After surrender, Aidan is identified as British, immediately assaulted, and subjected to mock execution and torture:

  "As soon as I said Great Britain, he, like, punched me on the nose. The next thing I remember, I was on my knees and he was like cocking his rifle." — Aidan Aslan [18:29]
  "As he was like smoking it, I remember him saying, like, did you see what I did to you? ...and I realized I'd been stabbed with a knife. And he then asked me if I wanted a quick death or if I wanted a beautiful death." — Aidan Aslan [20:27]

• [21:50–22:25] Sean Pinner recounts his own experience being tortured after capture:

  "They put clips to my little fingers and pumped through volts of electricity... All you can hear is electrical current. You can't move, you can't say anything because everything's welded shut." — Sean Pinner [21:50]

5. Propaganda and Graham Phillips

• [22:57–26:50] Both men are forced to make propaganda videos for the Russian side. When journalist Graham Phillips—also from Nottingham—enters, it is with a mix of embarrassment and dread for Aidan:

  "He has a very heavy British accent and it's embarrassing to listen to. And I remember thinking to myself, like, oh my God, please don't be who I think this is... So I knew straight away it was Graham Phillips." — Aidan Aslan [22:57]

• Graham conducts an aggressive, one-sided interview, labeling Aidan a mercenary and denying him the protection of the Geneva Convention, while Aidan’s torturer stands just out of shot.

  "The guy who beat and stabbed me, he was to the side, obviously. He seemed to know Phillips quite well." — Aidan Aslan [25:42]

• Aidan reflects on the dark irony of meeting a fellow Nottingham local under such circumstances:

  "I did think it was a bit ironic. Out of all the places in the world where I meet someone from Nottingham, it's in captivity on two sides of the conflict." — Aidan Aslan [26:50]

6. Impact on Families and Moral Reckoning

• [27:27–28:04] Angela Aslan, Aidan's mother, reacts with shock and disgust after seeing Graham’s video online, noting the inclusion of personal family details:

  "The opening lines will stay with me forever. The fact that he had named my daughter, he'd named me... After watching the video, I'd done my research on him online articles and seen what kind of a person that he was... Despicable, horrible, disgusting individual." — Angela Aslan [27:27]

• Graham’s old friend Les Scott reflects:

  "This is the sad thing about war is people lose their empathy and their humanity." — Les Scott [28:22]

7. The Show Trials and Death Sentence

• [29:19–29:40] Aidan recalls the sentencing, a moment of total despair:

  "I just like listened to the judge... and I just hear smert Nikaz. It literally just means death sentence. And I was like, this is, this is like worse than it could possibly be. And it was at that moment like I just mentally just like completely lost all sense of hope." — Aidan Aslan [29:19]

• [29:10–29:15] Sean Pinner describes the purpose of the trial:

  "I just thought it was, was a trial by public opinion and for the Russian masses." — Sean Pinner [29:10]

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Aidan Aslan on impending death:

  "I'm praying to God. This could be my final video." [03:22]

• Commentary from the siege:

  "It was just shock and awe." — Sean Pinner [06:49]

• On survival, from Prebek:

  "At one point I was listening to music and watching at the sunrise and I'm thinking, well this is the last beautiful thing that I will see." [14:41]

• On Graham Phillips’ presence:

  "Please don't be who I think this is... So I knew straight away it was Graham Phillips." — Aidan Aslan [22:57]

• Angela Aslan on seeing the interview:

  "The opening lines will stay with me forever. The fact that he had named my daughter, he'd named me." [27:27] "Despicable, horrible, disgusting individual." [27:59]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Aidan’s trial and death sentence: [01:02–04:37]
• Initial Russian invasion & frontline chaos: [06:05–07:31]
• Siege of Mariupol and choices under fire: [13:16–16:35]
• Decision to surrender and family contact: [15:46–16:49]
• Capture, torture and mock executions: [18:29–21:20]
• Propaganda videos & Graham Phillips’ interview: [22:57–26:50]
• Family and moral reflections: [27:27–28:44]
• Show trial and sentencing moments: [29:19–29:40]

---

Concluding Thoughts

This episode paints a vivid, deeply personal and journalistic account of war—the trauma, impossible choices, and the unpredictable connections that emerge, as seen through the lives of Aidan Aslan, Sean Pinner, and Graham Phillips from Nottingham. The episode carefully uncovers how international conflict collides with local identity, and the consequences for individuals caught in the crossfire—physically, psychologically, and morally. The family perspective and legal implications add further weight to an already intense narrative.

The next episode promises to bring closure to the stories of both "Nottingham lads," raising further questions about justice, complicity, and humanity in modern warfare.

Transcript

[LinkedIn Ads Narrator]

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals, including 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from other ad buyers. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority, skills, company revenue so you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. It's why LinkedIn Ads generates the highest B2B return on ad spend of major ad networks. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn Ads and get $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com Broadcast that's LinkedIn.com Broadcast. Terms and conditions apply.

[American Express Advertiser]

Take an AMEX card with you on your morning coffee run and earn cash back on a weekend trip, earn miles. See if you pre qualify for an American Express card with no impact on your credit score. Learn [e-mail] check4offers or your credit score may be impacted. If you accept a card, terms apply.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

You're about to listen to The History Podcast 2 Nottingham Lads. Episodes of this series will be released weekly wherever you get your podcasts. But if you're in the UK, the whole series is available right now, first on BBC Sounds. It's June 2022. Two months after Aidan Aslan, British citizen and Ukrainian, was captured by Russian forces. Held captive by the so called Donetsk People's Republic, he anxiously awaits trial. Labeled a Nazi war criminal by DPR authorities, Aden stands accused of, amongst other things, being a foreign mercenary. It's a crime that carries the death penalty. The court proceedings last three days. Naturally every second is captured on camera. Images of Aiden caged haggard and half starved are beamed around the world. He speaks to the judge through a translator. Well, do you know the information and the copy of your indictment? Aidan sits slumped behind metal bars alongside two other foreign born soldier for Ukraine. All three are shaven headed and hollow cheeked, listening intently as the charges are read out. Forcible seizure of power and trying to overthrow the Russian backed Donetsk People's Republic. Training with intent to commit terrorist acts. And lastly the charge of being a mercenary. Adan pleads guilty just as his state appointed counsel instructed him to. So Aiden asked, do you plead guilty?

[LinkedIn Ads Narrator]

Yeah.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Later he's forced to make more propaganda videos for YouTube. Fear in his eyes as he details the legal process. This one is called Court Verdict.

[Aidan Aslan]

It's the third day of my court trial. I pleaded Guilty on all three charges. The prosecutors asked for the death sentence. So, yeah, I just want to let people know this could be my final video. I'm praying to God.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

On the 9th of June, 2022, Aidan is back in the dock. He stands to hear the court's judgment. Aiden is found guilty. The sentence, death. He speaks to the assembled cameras immediately after.

[Aidan Aslan]

I wish it could be different, but God will be the one that will judge me when the time comes.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Then he's transported back to prison where he's forced to make yet more YouTube videos. In one, he describes the depth of his despair. It's titled My Emotions After Trial Verdict.

[Aidan Aslan]

People are wondering how I feel right now, like after, after the sentence. I'd say emotional, like scared, worried. Speak to God quite a lot, like every day.

[Nick Sturdy]

Yeah.

[Aidan Aslan]

Hopefully I might see you again in the future.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Aidan's death sentence made headlines around the world. Many compared it with a Stalinist show trial. But no one could guess how impactful all those propaganda videos filmed in captivity would prove to be. Not just for Aidan Aslan, but for those responsible for making them, including our other Nottingham lad, Graham Phillips. I'm Paul Kenyon and for BBC Radio 4 and the History Podcast, this is Two Nottingham Lads a story about how two men from the same British city end up on opposite sides in the war in Ukraine. Episode 3 Six Weeks in Mariupol. Four months earlier, back before Aidan knew anything of capture, torture or show trials, on the morning of 24th February 2022, he awoke like the rest of the world, to the news of full scale war. Russia was invading its neighbor Ukraine from the air, land and sea in a small village called Pavlopil, just north of the port city of Mariupol. And Aidan Aslan was serving in a heavy mortar unit. They were rapidly deployed to the eastern front to hold back the Russian advance.

[Aidan Aslan]

When the invasion happened, we went out to do our first fire mission. It was completely hell on earth with the sound. It was heavy rain, the mud was atrocious. And we came back in after firing around like maybe 10, nine shots on the mortar. And obviously the realization is set in, okay, like, now it's war.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Sean Pinner, Aidan's friend and fellow British fighter, was also on the front line with the Ukrainian Marines. He made this video.

[Aidan Aslan]

Just survived that second wave.

[Nick Sturdy]

Regret.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Mars, Petrified.

[Aidan Aslan]

I've got to be honest, so far so good.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Only day one.

[Sean Penner]

Well, it was the worst weather conditions ever. About minus five, I believe. Minus ten is everything you imagine from the Somme. But when that day came, it was just shock and awe.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Aidan was in the heat of battle too. But beyond their foxholes, it was hard for them to work out the wider picture.

[Aidan Aslan]

We don't know what's going on behind us. Like no one's really telling us anything. I think the first thing I did was just go on Google and just type in Ukraine. And I remember like, just seeing this whole, whole flood of news of like Russian launching a full scale invasion, like there's Russian troops in Odessa and Russian troops and like, heading towards Kiev.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

In Kiev on 24 February, my colleague Nick Sturdy and I were woken by the sound of bombs. People had thought an attack was likely in the east of Ukraine, but not in the capital. At 4:30 in the morning, I heard a series of booms that felt like they were coming from inside the earth. There's been an announcement this morning, the hotel, that everybody needs to leave their rooms and go down to some kind of air raid shelter. I met up with Nick in the bomb shelter. It was eerie. No one quite knew what was going on. We were advised to stay there, but we knew we needed to get outside onto the streets to see where the rockets had landed.

[Nick Sturdy]

So as we were driving in the direction of an airfield just outside Kyiv, where we knew that some missiles had landed, we saw a big plume of black smoke. And as we drove towards the airport itself, we saw some soldiers patrolling. And we assumed that they were Ukrainian soldiers and they're part of the garrison. So we drove up to them very slowly.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

We drove up to them so cautiously because we didn't want to alarm them, but as far as far as we were concerned, they're, they're Ukrainian soldiers, of.

[Nick Sturdy]

Course, because this was 10, you know, about 10 kilometers away from the center of Kyiv where President Zelensky was. And as we came up to them, I wound down my window and I said in my polite Russian, excuse me, we're from the BBC. Can we speak to you? Tel Aviv BBC.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

The commander of that unit walked over to the car and was pointing his gun at us. This guy's got a gun in front of me, okay? And I remember that he put his fingers towards us, waving us away, and said, N, which means, no, those are Russians.

[Nick Sturdy]

And at that point I realized that they weren't Ukrainians at all and that they were Russian paratroopers. 10 kilometers away from the center of Kiev. And we realized that the invasion wasn't just from rockets, it was on the ground.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

So we drove just around to the other side of Hostomel Air Base. Didn't we. And there was huge drama. I mean, I could hear very intense gunfight because the. The Russians were already there. They'd flown in by helicopter. And then a Ukrainian helicopter came over for a counterattack.

[Nick Sturdy]

Here comes a helicopter.

[Sean Penner]

Yeah.

[Nick Sturdy]

Yes, that's right. A Ukrainian attack helicopter flew over our heads and started firing rockets at where the Russians were.

[Aidan Aslan]

Get in the car.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Yeah. Meanwhile, 400 miles to the southeast in Pavlopil, the action was intense. Aiden and Sean's units held onto their initial position for about eight hours. But the Russian attack was relentless. Commanding officers called a tactical retreat. There was only one place to go, south to Mariupol and the coast. The city had a pair of huge steelworks which might provide some kind of shelter from the bombardment, at least for a while.

[Aidan Aslan]

The steelworks is a huge territory. It's like when you go into any of the port cities in Britain, it's just this huge in a city. The key thing I remember was just like how quiet it was. Like it was so quiet you could hear the birds singing. If you like focused enough, you could almost pretend that there wasn't a war going on.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

The Mariupol steelworks conjures images of Blade Runner. A huge industrial hangar, cranes above, furnaces below. All fire and industry. A useful shelter from attack. The only shelter. Many of Aiden's comrades found themselves there too. About a thousand Ukrainian fighters all told, hoping to regroup and launch a counterattack.

[Prebek]

I'm Prebek. I'm a former Croatian serviceman who been serving for two and a half years in Ukraine.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

The Echoslav Prebek, or just Prebek to his friends, was another foreign fighter drawn to defend Ukraine. He'd been fighting alongside Aiden and Sean since 2020. On the day of the invasion, he too made a hasty retreat to the Mariupol steelworks.

[Prebek]

We were woken up by artillery. Everything that they had, they threw at us. Then we came to this steelworks. That was the first time I met Aiden after the beginning of the full scale invasion. At this point, it was still fresh. We were with high morale and there was no panic.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

At this point, the steelworks and surrounding areas became home to Aiden, Shawn and Prebeg. For the next six weeks, they were under intense siege. Aerial bombardments a daily menace. Aiden continued documenting the war, filming what he was seeing and posting to Instagram.

[Aidan Aslan]

Just a quick message. Just confirm I'm still alive. It's March 22nd. Ukrainians are fighting hard day and night. The wall is tremendously strong and they're not going to be submitted by Russian imperialism.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

But the Overwhelming force of their enemy was wearing them down. Escape was looking less and less likely. By April, the steelworks were encircled and a grim choice was beginning to present itself.

[Aidan Aslan]

I mean by this point we'd already ran out of food, there's no ammunition. I remember my commander, he came up to me and he said I've got a choice, like I've got to be quick with it. I could either go with him and those that are going to attempt to break out and what was left of the vehicles, or I could choose to walk out with the guys that are going to choose to walk out and try to escape on foot. Or I could stay in the bunker and officially surrender with those that are choosing to stay.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

It's a life defining moment. Stay and surrender or go and risk being gunned down on the run. For the foreign born Ukrainian troops, nationality had to be part of their calculation. For a Brit who surrendered, the best case scenario might be humiliation as a tool of propaganda and being held for years as a political hostage. The worst case might be a very public execution. Sean Penner was first to choose.

[Sean Penner]

Because I was British, I was never going to surrender. So we made a choice to break out and I joined the vehicles and the lorries going out.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

He roared out of the steelworks in a cavalcade of armored trucks. What about Prepeg? He'd entered a near out of body state as he struggled to decide.

[Prebek]

Those few last days in Mariupol were quite good weather, like sunny in the morning was kind of chilly, but not too cold. The sun was rising, it was beautiful. I, at one point I was listening to music and watching at the sunrise and I'm thinking, well this is the last beautiful thing that I will see. We were believing that probably they gonna be executing every one of us at sight.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Prebeg set off on foot with a small group of other fighters, planning to cross 120km of enemy territory without being spotted. Then it was time for Aidan to decide.

[Aidan Aslan]

I chose not to do the vehicle breakout because I knew it would most likely fail. And I chose not to do the walking out because at that point there was probably going to be about 200 people that were going to attempt to break out of this very small area. So I figured the best worst case scenario that I could do is officially surrender.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Decision made. Aidan managed to get a brief Internet connection.

[Aidan Aslan]

I got in contact with my mum and told her what was happening. I think it was like 2am where she was.

[Angela Aslan (Aidan's mother)]

And then I got a phone call from Aidan saying mum, things are really bad. We're gonna have to surrender. But he said, if you don't hear from me, just know that I love you and try not to worry too much. Well, that was it, basically. Then I was crying, and I was just so emotional. I didn't know what to do.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Aidan still had his wits about him. He sent his mum, Angela, a proof of life video to put online. It was a smart move. Footage of him unharmed before surrender meant any injuries or. Or worse must have been inflicted against the rules of war.

[Aidan Aslan]

If you're watching this, it means that we've surrendered. We're just waiting for the command now to lay down our arms and head towards the Russian soldiers. Hopefully you'll see something from me in the future.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

After that, Aidan smashed his phone, smashed his camera, and threw them into a septic tank. It's good military procedure, destroying evidence, contacts, and potential secrets. It was time for him to leave the steelworks. Are you really buying a car online on Autotrader right now?

[American Express Advertiser]

Really? I can get super specific with dealer listings and see cars based on my budget. You can really have it delivered or pick it up.

[Nick Sturdy]

Mommy, look.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

I think kid is walking up the slide.

[LinkedIn Ads Narrator]

Really?

[American Express Advertiser]

Autotrader, buy your car online. Really?

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

After six weeks under siege in Mariupol, Aidan, Aslan and his remaining comrades had decided to put down their arms. Hungry, exhausted and fearful, they headed to the surrender point in a truck displaying a white flag.

[Aidan Aslan]

I knew we were about to go into a very dark place, but I think it was like that last, like, glimpse of, like, freedom, so to speak. And we were met by a Russian soldier who had a white flag as well. And we got into a line and they started, like, patting us down.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

In times of war, this is a precarious moment, the time when abuses and extrajudicial killings often occur. After capture, but before official processing, the Russian soldiers check documents and possessions and loaded Aiden and the others onto a truck. They were driven miles through territory that they'd held themselves just weeks before, but which was now in Russian hands.

[Aidan Aslan]

We pull into one of the local agricultural warehouses, and as soon as the doors opened, that's when the aggression started. They took me aside, they looked at my military id, my veterans card, no problems. And then I showed them my passport.

[Sean Penner]

Airport.

[Aidan Aslan]

When they looked inside, they quickly realized something was wrong. And then he, like, asked me, like, in. In Russian, like, at Kuda, which is like, where are you from? And I said, like, Velika Britannia, which is Great Britain. And as soon as I said Great Britain, he, like, punched me on the nose. The next thing I Remember, I was on my knees and he was like cocking his rifle.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Other Ukrainian POWs have described similar mock executions to me. And while we only have Aydin's word for what happened to him, organizations including the UN have described widespread and systematic violence and torture of Ukrainian POWs. Russia has consistently denied the allegations for Aden. More interrogations followed. The security services of the Donetsk People's Republic of a kind of small scale version of the FSB wanted a word.

[Aidan Aslan]

They took me to a separate warehouse and they started questioning me and they were saying I was a mercenary. Kept repeating like, no, I'm a Ukrainian Marine. I remember they mentioned about they found Shaun, like, he's dead.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Shaun had attempted to escape from Mariupol by cover of darkness. Was he really dead? And what of Prebeg? And why were they so insistent that Aiden was a mercenary? The psychological and physical abuse had begun. Aden was stuffed into the back of an suv. Their destination, the capital of the Donetsk People's Republic and Aiden's new home as a pow.

[Aidan Aslan]

I remember as soon as I got out, there was this guy in like a blue military uniform. Like, he just started beating me with a police stick. And I eventually fell to the ground and then he, he like dragged me into the building. He came back and started asking me questions like, like, where are you from? And as soon as I said, I'm from Bristol, they just started beating me. This went on for like the next, like couple of hours. At one point he stopped to have a cigarette. As he was like smoking it, I, I remember him saying, like, did you see what I did to you? And then he like pointed to my shoulder and when I looked over at my shoulder, I realized I was bleeding and realized that I'd been stabbed with a knife. And he then asked me if I wanted a quick death or if I wanted a beautiful death. As the beating went on, I was knocked unconscious.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

As Aiden lay on the floor, his vision fading, bleeding from a stab wound to his shoulder, he could only hope that his comrades were faint, faring better. Despite what Ayden had been told, Sean Penner was in fact alive. But he hadn't escaped. He was caught alone and on foot just outside Mariupol after their vehicle breakout was attacked. And he was now in the hands of the Russian security services, the FSB.

[Sean Penner]

They took me for a 40 minute drive to what was where, one of those nasty rooms that you see on James Bond, which has got a hole in the middle or the drainage floor. If they're going to beat you up and bleed, it's easier to clean. First of all, before they'd said anything, they put clips to my little fingers and pumped through volts of electricity through my fingers. People go, what's it like being electrocuted? And I'm going very quiet, actually. All you can hear is electrical current. You can't move, you can't say anything because everything's welded shut.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Alongside the physical torture, both Shaun and Aidan were forced to create intense propaganda videos while in captivity. Ones you'd been hearing about throughout this series. This was part of the misinformation war being waged by the Russians, forcing Ukrainian soldiers themselves to spout Kremlin talking points. Journalists embedded on the Russian side flocked to interview the captives, to give a facade of authentic to proceedings.

[Aidan Aslan]

And on one of the occasions I get taken out, I'm put into a room and I'm like, just listening for what's going on in the corridor. I hear someone speaking in the worst Russian. He has a very heavy British accent and it's embarrassing to listen to. And I remember thinking to myself, like, oh my God, please don't be who I think this is. And he walked in and I was like, Jesus, like, out of all the propagandists I could have possibly encountered, it had to be this guy. So I knew straight away it was Graham Phillips.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Graham wasn't the only pro Russian journalist to interview Aydan, but he was the one Aydin says he most dreaded. By 2022, Graham's reputation really did precede him. Aydin and many of his fellow foreign born fighters had seen his videos and knew precisely who he was.

[Aidan Aslan]

He didn't acknowledge me at all until the camera was set up. I think like the only thing he mentioned was that were both from Nottingham and that was sort of like trying to like break the ice. He went straight into the aggressive, like, oh, I can imaginary and stuff like that.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

An interesting point is your family have appealed for Russia to adhere to the Geneva Convention.

[Sean Penner]

Technically you're a mercenary, so that doesn't apply to you.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

And so we return to Graham's video exclusive interview. Aidan Aslan, British man fighting for Ukraine captured in Donbass, Mariupol. Now, Graham is correct in saying that mercenaries don't have a right to be treated as prisoners of war under the Geneva Convention. It says as much in Article 47 of Protocol 1. But Aydin isn't a mercenary. He's a serving member of the Ukrainian military and therefore, according to international law, must be protected from insults and public curiosity, including videos for propaganda Purposes. So categorizing Aiden as a mercenary suits Graham just as much as it does the DPR prosecutors. Although he says that it was Aidan himself who requested the meeting. He even gets him to say it on camera. Aidan would just like to confirm that.

[Sean Penner]

You'Re speaking of your own will.

[Aidan Aslan]

Yeah, I agree to this. I ask for this.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

But there's something or someone you can't see or hear in Graham's interview with Aiden. Just off to the side, the. Or just outside the door is Aiden's torturer.

[Aidan Aslan]

So the. The guy who beat and stabbed me, he was to the side, obviously. He seemed to know Phillips quite well. I remember he mentioned not seeing him for a long time, like he knew full well, like what. What went on at that place.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Graham maintains that his work is exclusively his own, and there's no evidence he has any financial or other connection to the Kremlin or. Or the dpr. I'd say the fact he's there at all suggests he has preferential access not granted to your average independent journalist. Particularly when, like Aidan says, Graham seems rather friendly with the man who had tortured him. Responding to claims made in this documentary, Graham insists that the interview with Aidan was freely given and professionally done and conformed with international law. What is certain is that with Aiden's captors watching his every move and under threat of the death penalty, Aidan was never going to be able to answer Graham's questions truthfully, even if it was, as Graham says, one knotting a man to another.

[Aidan Aslan]

I did think it was a bit ironic. Out of all the places in the world where I meet someone from Nottingham, it's in captivity on two sides of the conflict.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

While these two Nottingham lads were having it out in Eastern Ukraine, back In Newark, just 20 miles from Nottingham, Aidan's mum, Angela, and the rest of his family were facing the pain of their son being a captive, not knowing what would happen next. Then Graham's video suddenly popped up on their phones, sent to them by friends who'd found it online.

[Angela Aslan (Aidan's mother)]

The opening lines will stay with me forever. The fact that he had named my daughter, he'd named me.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

I would like to pass on in.

[Aidan Aslan]

The first case that your family have.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Also been concerned about your sister and your mother. Is it Angela?

[Aidan Aslan]

Yeah, Angela.

[Angela Aslan (Aidan's mother)]

And I was like, who is this guy? I've never heard of him before and I'm almost sure that Aiden's doesn't know him. After watching the video, I'd done my research on him online articles and seen what kind of a person that he.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Was and what kind of person was he, do you think?

[Angela Aslan (Aidan's mother)]

Despicable, horrible, disgusting individual.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Les Scott, Graham's friend who'd made the film with him in Crimea, also came across the video. I put it to Les that there was a lack of humanity there, that this wasn't the fun loving comedian he'd once known. Did Les recognize this Graham?

[Prebek]

I mean, let's look at the background. You've got a guy who's sat in a room with his fellow countrymen. He passionately believes that this guy has volunteered himself to, in Graham's mind, shoot and kill people that he's representing. This is the sad thing about war is people lose their empathy and their humanity.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Aiden left the interview room and return to his cell ready for more interrogations, more beatings. And in the coming weeks he'll face a trial for being a so called mercenary. Aden will take the stand alongside two other foreign born Ukrainian soldiers, A young Moroccan fighter named Brahim Sadoun. The other, Aiden's friend, Sean Penner.

[Sean Penner]

I just thought it was, was a trial by public opinion and for the the Russian masses.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Aiden remembers the moment they read out their sentence.

[Aidan Aslan]

And I just like listened to the judge like speaking in Russian and I just hear smirk Nikaz. It literally just means death sentence. And I was like, this is, this is like worse than it could possibly be. And it was at that moment like I just mentally just like completely lost all sense of hope.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Next time, in the final episode of Two Nottingham Lads, Aidan waits on death row.

[Aidan Aslan]

And I remember as they were leading this Ukrainian out, he said, we're taking you to be shot.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Now Graham's name is brought up in Parliament that this is a flagrant breach of the Geneva Convention and that the interviewer, Graham Phillips is in danger, danger of prosecution for war crimes. And we reached the denouement for both our Nottingham lads.

[Aidan Aslan]

This curious, I presume like Russian FSB or police guy, he came over to the back of the truck, he said to us, well, I think you will like Russian surprise that's coming for you.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

To Nottingham Lads is a message heard production for BBC Radio 4. It was presented by me, Paul Kenyon and produced by Harry Stott. Listen first on BBC Sounds.

[Rory Stewart]

I'm Rory Stewart and I want to talk about heroes. When I was a child, I imagined a heroic future for myself in which I would achieve great things and die sacrificing my life for a noble cause before I was 30. But my experiences in the Middle east and in politics showed me that there was something deeply wrong with my idea of heroism. From BBC Radio 4 my podcast, the Long History of Heroism explores ideas of what it meant to be a hero through time. How have these ideas changed? Who are the heroes we need today? Listen to Rory Stewart, the Long History of Hero, first on BBC Sounds.

[American Express Advertiser]

If you're an H Vac technician and a call comes in, Grainger knows that you need a partner that helps you find the right product fast and hassle free. And you know that when the first problem of the day is a clanking blower motor, there's no need to break a sweat. With Grainger's easy to use website and product details, you're confident you'll soon have everything humming right along. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Paul Kenyon (Narrator)]

Smooth hair. Suave smooth.

[Prebek]

Charming Ultrasoft Smooth air Tiny.

[Aidan Aslan]

La misma Swabidati.

[Rory Stewart]

Charming.