← The HoneyDew with Ryan Sickler
The HoneyDew with Ryan Sickler
362: Tim Hardaway Had to Ban Dad from High School Basketball Games | HoneyDew Podcast #362
01:03:57
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With TikTok ads, our revenue went up $10 million year over year during back to school season. Penn Foster is online education. TikTok is great because the reach is incredible for finding a lot of different types of audiences on the platform. Creator content at scale allowed us to easily develop and distribute creator led ads. Our return on ad spend for TikTok is 21% higher than the next best channel. Start growing your business today.
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Head over to getstarted.TikTok.com tiktokads Guys, I.
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Want to say thank you very much. We hit over a million views on Live and Alive. Thank you for supporting it. Thank you for watching it. If you haven't yet, go watch it. Share it with your friends. Comment like all that stuff. Live and Alive streaming now on my YouTube. Thank you guys so much for your support. The Honeydew with Ryan Sickler. Welcome back to the Honeydew, y'.
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B
All.
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A
We're over here doing it in the night Pants studios. I'm Ryan Sickler. Ryan Sickler.com Ryan Sickler on all your social media. Look, I'm going to start this episode like I start them all by saying thank you. Thank you for not only supporting this show anything. I do thank you for supporting a special at this time right now. It's only a few weeks. We're over 200000 views on my new special Live and Alive. Go watch it streaming on YouTube now if you want to help it. That's after YouTube pulled it out of the algorithm. You all did that. So like it, share it, comment all that stuff. It really does matter. And if you got to have more, you got to have our Patreon show, the Honeydew with y'. All. It is this show with y'.
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B
All.
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A
And y' all have the wildest stories we've ever heard in our life. We've been doing this for years now and I promise you, it's. It's five bucks a month. It's never going to be more than five bucks a month. All right? So if you or someone you know has a story that has to be heard, please submit it to us. Honeydew podcastmail.com we'd love to hear your story. That's it. That's the biz. You know what we do here? We highlight the low lights. I always say these are the stories behind the storytellers. And I am very excited to have this guest on with us today. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Tim Hardaway. Welcome to the Honey Do.
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B
Tim Hardaway. Thank you. Thank you.
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A
We're Fired up to have you here. Tim Hardaway.
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B
Fired up to be here.
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A
Before we get into your story right there, please promote your book and anything else you'd like from the streets of.
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B
Chicago to basketball royalty to crossover. My book that just came out and you know, if you want to know what I, what made me and why I was that guy on that court and you know, my upbringing and the Chicago background. Yeah. You need to get this book. You need to read it. It's a must read and I think you will enjoy it. And it helps you out with your kids too, about au basket sports in general, about how parents should be calm and cool and collective.
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A
So first of all, congrats on the book. Is there anything else you want to put where, where can they find you on socials?
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B
The original crossover king on, on Instagram and Facebook.
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A
Is there a dude out there that's got Tim Hardaway won't give it to you?
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B
No, I, I, I still have Tim Hardaway. Yeah. Yeah, I just, I just didn't go.
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A
Over Tim Hardaway hostage out there on Instagram.
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B
I heard of people holding people hostage.
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A
Y on this show all the time. They got to be the, or whatever.
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B
Right, exactly.
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A
The Tim Hardware.
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B
Right, right, right.
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A
I want to say this real quick too. So I got to give a shout out to my, one of my daughter's teachers. She's 11. But this dude has been around for a minute and he coached her brother. My daughter's brother's my stepson in basketball when he was younger. They're 11 years apart and he was always a good coach. And I just said to him the other day, I didn't dawn on me, I was like, I go, how do you know Derek? He goes, I used to coach him in basketball. I was like, wait, you're the coach I talk about? He goes, you talk about me on the podcast? I said, yeah. So he goes, what do you mean? I said, well, he was always loud, but everything he was saying was positive. And that disturbed some parents. And there was a, there was an episode where a dude ran out. We thought it was, you know, you assume it's the. Let me, let me back up, guys. Always like, great hustle, great hustle, right? Get down to court where you shoot where you.
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B
It was loud.
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A
It was loud, but it was always positive. It was never like, what do you doing? It was, it was just loud. And I think a lot of people, it confused them. Like, this guy's being loud with these kids and there's a lot of soft ass parents out there too.
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B
Today, yes.
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A
Especially out here in Santa Monica. And the. They had a kid on our team, they called him Baby Shaq. And he was big. He's wearing a 12 when he was in, like, sixth grade, you know, and this kid decided he was going to try to take the charge, and Baby Shaq ran them over like a freight train. And they're children, right? Baby Shaq was. The kid got hurt. Baby Shaq was crying because the kid was crying.
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B
Emotional, right?
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A
This dude runs out of the stands and gets up in the coach's face. Now, we all assume it's the father of the boy that just got trucked by Baby Shaq. It's not. It's just some dude that was tired of the coach.
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B
You coach him a dude ever a.
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A
Dad to throw him out of the gym. I'm looking around like, what the fuck's going on? Wow. I just want to say, as far as coaching and everything, because I've had some really good coaches. There are some that are just. They're loud. But as long as the message is positive, I don't have any issue with that. Man get up their ass a little bit. But he's not. It's never. It was never negative, ever. And the energy wasn't either. It was positive. I just don't think people are used to hearing loudness always with positive message behind it. You know, loud these days seems to be a negative voice.
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B
I don't know why loudness should be a negative voice. I know coaches today, they do camps. They do basketball camps, and they need to be loud. You know, sometimes you. You blow a whistle, and then you have 300 kids. If you soft, if you talking soft, the kid behind the three, that two 999th kid, is not going to hear you. So you got to be loud, and you got to. You got to make sure the people that the kids hear you and understand you. I've been knowing coach that was loud. We called him Rockamore. He was real loud. And it was only 10 of us in the gym. And he had, you know, he. Very positive. But he had talked to you and make sure you understood what you were saying. Loud to everybody. He didn't care who was listening to him. He's very positive. But he understood that you needed to hear him, and he wanted you to hear him, and he wanted you to understand what he was saying. So, yeah, I mean. I mean, some. You know, a lot of these parents or not parents, you said this guy coming out of the stands, he just was tired of it. I'm gonna Tell you this, I've been to a friend of mine, what I want to say practice, okay? And he was like, I want you to evaluate my son. And why the camp? I mean, why the practice was going on? I was just evaluating your son, his son. I was like, yo, you need, I said, you need to chill out. Stop it. He gonna be all right. I said, your son can play. He just, he just don't want to play. If he wanted to play basketball, he could play basketball. He just don't want to play. He, he, he out here for recreational reasons just so he get out the house and do something because y' all want him to do something, but he can play. If he, if he didn't have nothing else to do, he'd be able to play this game with no problem. But he don't like the game. He just coming out here recreational and he's having fun with his peers and doing this. He's not going to dive on the ball. He's not going to do this certain amount of move. He's not going to play defense the way you want play defense. He's not gonna, I mean, he just gonna go out here and play basketball the way he wants to play basketball. I said, you need to calm down. But this other parent on the other end, just on his kid, ah, I mean, negatively. You talking about loud. He's probably louder than the coach. Was that you talking about. And he was on his son, negative, negative, negative. And I was about to go down there and talk to him several times. My buddy was like, tim, we gonna be in here fighting. We gonna be in here seriously fighting. He said, tim, do not go down there. I said, I said, I said, I can't take it before. I just want to tell him, dude, shut the up, please. Your kid, yo, I said, his kid is gonna be at school fighting every day. His kid is gonna be as taking it out on everybody, like taking it out on other people, taking it out on teachers. And where he gon gonna get it from you. That's what I wanted to tell his dad. You need to leave your son on. He's. And he's actually doing what you ask him to do and doing more out there and you still not satisfied. So I'm like, that's what I wanted to go down there. My friend was like, tim, no, no, Tim, no. So I, I, I, I, man, I was feeling my thumbs. I was feeling my thumbs. I was, I was down there. Lord, help me, help me. I was like, give me courage so I won't go down here because my buddy don' down there and talk to. And then somebody. So I was on my way out. Same thing. I was on our way out. He steady into his son. I mean, dude, practice zo with you steady into. You should have saw his son's face. It was. It was dismal. It was like. He was like, I can't do nothing to make this man happy. And I said, this kid is gonna end up, you know, really hurting himself or hurting somebody, and it's gonna be because his fault. Now, I felt really bad for the kid.
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A
Now. Now, look, I want to get into this.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Because the timing of you.
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B
But you got into that first, so, you know.
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A
I know, but I want to ask you another question, because you led into. You mentioned about coaching helping all this stuff at your level. Who's the coach that you respected the most, that you also know had to come in and had to put ego aside, like, Tim Hardaway, Kobe, whatever. You. You're up here. Like, who. Who's the man? Is that a John Daly? A coach? K. Who's the guy that has to come in and say, like, look, I know every one of you is a Hall of Famer here, but I got a coach, and I got to tell you, when you up and I. You got to be open to hearing that and being able to be coached and vice versa. Who's. Who's the man that you worked with that. That you feel did the best job of dealing with hall of Fame men and figuring out how to, you know, organize that?
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B
I'm gonna taste it. So I. I respected all my coaches. I never had a problem with none of my coaches. Grammar school coach taught me all the fundamentals, taught me how to play, taught me how to have confidence, taught me how to post up, taught me how to take care of my body, taught me how to run a team. And it started from there. High school coach, same way. But I listened to them. They was always candid. They was always, I want to say, honest with me. They was honest with the team and, you know, always told me or us who had to work on that game. I probably worked on my game the most because I. I just love playing the game of basketball. Then I went to college with Don Haskins. Great, great coach, hall of Fame coach. I played with three hall of Fame coaches, you know, and Don Haskins, and he taught me.
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A
Would you go to college? Utep. Yeah, UTEP where was your high school?
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B
Carver High School.
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A
Where's that?
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B
Yes, in Chicago. That's. That's in Argyle Gardens. Okay, like suburban, but still in Chicago, but we right outside of the city. And. But yeah, and my grammar school, coach, Cone Elementary, Donald Pittman, taught me everything. And I. I still revert back to him. When I was, like, having slumps, I called him up, say, hey, you know, he said, just go back to the basics. Just go back to the base. Go back your roots. And I did that. And, you know, you. And then you get back into the swing of things. But, you know, Don Haskins taught me a lot. Just maturity, just maturity as I got older and played for him. But, you know, you get to Don Nelson and Pat Riley, two other hall of Fame coaches that played in the NBA that, you know, won rings as players and as. As coaches. You know, Don has. Don Nelson didn't, but, you know, Pat Riley has. And. But all. All those coaches instilled in me, just run the team. Do what I supposed to do. Run the team. Here's the keys to the car. You the captain of the car. You, you, you. You taking us to that promised land. You taking us to that next level. You, you, you making sure that everybody is on board, ready to go. And, you know, I don't think I taught myself how to understand coaches. I taught myself how to make coaches understand me as a basketball player. You know, as a player, you got to know what a coach wants out there, but you also got to do your own thing while you're out there, because you out there playing, and you gotta instruct the guys what you see and how you see and what's gonna make you. Y' all excel and win the game. So I, I, like I said, I had hall of Fame coaches, and I think that we all.
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A
Who coached your Olympic team.
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B
Who was that? Oh, it was Rudy Tomjonovich.
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A
Tom Jonovich?
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B
Yes, Rudy Tom. Another hall of Famer.
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A
I forgot he was.
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B
And Larry Brown was our coach before that. And what's that? The trials in Puerto Rico. And he was another hall of Fam. You know, so I've been all around hall of Fame coaches all my life. I know how to deal with them. They know how to deal with me. Show them respect. Go out there, you know, do what they want you to do. But you go out there and do your own stuff, too, you know, and. And make it happen. That's how you fall in love with one another. So I never had a, like, coach that, you know, I had to go back and forth with, or we. We didn't like each other, anything like that. Of course, you got to adapt. Of course you got to have Conversations. Both people got to have conversations and dialogue and we move on and we get better like that.
- [14:41]
A
Well, the timing having you on here right now, I always tell everybody, nobody knows timing better than comedians and drummers and this is just lucky timing here. So while we're sitting here, our current episode out right now is John Ameche. I've had other athletes on, I've had Orlando Brown Jr. We've had Tony Hawk. Never had NBA guys all of a sudden get two. And then somehow you two are directly sort of related in the story he told. And you, you have here in this book as well.
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B
Yes.
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A
So let's talk about it. John was the first post career, first openly gay NBA player and you were outspoken about that, is that correct?
- [15:22]
B
Yes.
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A
And then tell us like you've had what happened and you have a change of heart now and.
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B
Well, you know what I had, I had to deal with a lot of pain, a lot of suffering. You know, my kids made you speak out.
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A
What made you were. You asked the question.
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B
You know, I, I was asked question. You know, and I grew up in a different background than, Than your religious background. Yeah, religious background. You know, we, we walking away from, you know, what you want to call it LGBQ now. You know, we didn't know what to call them then. You know, you, you just, you just use like, you know, dyke or, or bulldagger or, or, you know, you go like this and you go like that, you know. And then I went to church and the church should be talking about it too, you know.
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A
You would.
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B
Oh yeah, they would. You know, you're not supposed to be this way. You're not supposed to be that way. You know, you're supposed to be a boy, you're supposed to be a girl. You know, you're not supposed to wear your hair like this or do it, that type of stuff. So I mean, and you go to church because you, back then, I don't care what you say, you went to church.
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A
Yeah. And you also, you're a kid, you believe what everyone around you, you believe it, Right, Exactly.
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B
You're being told and that that's the way it was. And, and then when you go out and see it and you see as we call them back then, that as you see them walking down the street and, and, and you know, doing whatever, you, you, you say things. But we, I, I really didn't say nothing. I just, just moved away from them and walked a different way. And you know, you know, people always make a joke, oh, you better not mess with them. They're, they, they strong and they have you over here and they be kissing on you stuff, all type of stuff, you know, making fun and stuff. So yeah, when Dan Libertard asked me the question, I said something cruel. I said something very, very bad. I said something that has stuck with me since that time and it's going to stick with me. And I understand that and I have to deal with it. And the only way I could deal with it is talk about it and make people understand that you can change and you can not only change, but help what you made a wrong way. And what I said was, I hate gay people and I think they should be, you know, whatever, whatever, whatever. And, and I took on this with that. I, I, and you got to understand my background and how I grew up. I never, my parents said if, if, if you do something wrong, you gotta make it right. If you, if you, you gotta correct it, you know, you have to correct it. And that's all I wanted to do was try to correct it. Oprah Winfrey wanted me to come on. She would have crucified me. I wasn't ready to go on there and she, and then she, you know, she bad mouth me. I got a lot of bad things to say about her because she went to the city of Chicago and do nothing for the city of Chicago. So I got a lot bad to say about her if I wanted to. So, but I, I keep it, you know, I keep it, you know, low key and stuff like that, but she crucified me and said that, you know, forever, whatever reason you would have crucified me, you know, I wasn't ready to come out and, and speak to you and, and talk to you about that right then and there. I had to go get some counseling.
- [19:10]
A
How long time too?
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B
How old was it?
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A
How old were you?
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B
I was about what, 40. Okay, 41. Somewhere around there. And yeah, so I, but I saw you apologize.
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A
I saw John acknowledge the apology.
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B
Well, yeah, I apologize, but you know, I wanted to go a step further. I wanted to help, you know.
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A
Before you go a step further, let me ask you this question. I do understand your upbringing and where the mindset comes from and everything. What made you realize, oh, I up like, I get why, but what made you finally. And when do you go, oh, I did, did do the wrong thing? When does that happen?
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B
So my first of all, when you come home, you see your kids face.
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A
How old are your kids at the time?
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B
Oh, it was grown. No, they was in what, grammar school? Okay, they were still in grammar School, going into high school.
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A
How many kids?
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B
Three kids. So my youngest one really didn't know. She was still young, about five, six years old. But my, my other two oldest one, 34. 30 would be 34, 33, now 32. They. They was looking at me, dad, you know, they know. Do you know what you did? You know, we got friends that are gay. We got, you know, we know friends that are gay. You know, you see how they looking at us and talking to us in a bad way and everything. I was like, yeah, I know. And then, you know, I have relatives too. That again, I get everybody. Yeah, yeah.
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A
One family out there that does right instead of gay.
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B
And, you know, they told me, they, they all, they all told me this. They said, you up now, right? You up, but we still behind you.
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A
Okay?
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B
We still love you. And we know that you are the type of person that's going to turn this around because we know you. We know the kindness in your heart. We know where your head is at. We know how you tick. You know, you, you could, you could talk a good game and this and that, but you. We know that you gonna go out there and do what's right. And, but, and they, they knew that, but they, but what, what the message, the message was is we got your back. Whatever you need us for, we got you. And, and we understand that you fucked up, but you got to correct it.
- [21:28]
A
But go make it right.
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B
Go make it right. And I said, okay, how long is.
- [21:32]
A
The time from you saying. Making the comment to you saying, I am gonna make this right?
- [21:39]
B
What? Probably two weeks.
- [21:45]
A
Oh, quickly.
- [21:46]
B
Two weeks.
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A
Were your kids getting, like, bullied at school or at least.
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B
No, no, they weren't getting bullied. They, they. Friends were still a friend, okay? They, you know, they still was. Everybody was still cool with them. And, and, and everybody, everybody knew it was me and it wasn't them. It was just me. And you know, I was scared that, you know, that they was going to get bullied. I was scared that they something was. Somebody was going to do something to them. But nothing happened. You know, everybody was, Was real cool. And yeah, it took me two weeks, but I didn't get no sleep for two weeks.
- [22:22]
A
I bet.
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B
Did not get no sleep for two weeks. You know, didn't go nowhere because, you know, I went to the grocery store one time, you know, you can feel eyes all on you. You know that these days with the social media, man, it was tough. It was tough. It was very tough.
- [22:41]
A
And can I ask you this too, because you grow up a Religious man. So now you got a couple of conundrums here. You got, I gotta turn my back on this religion and this way of life that. That I thought was right, and all these people I tr. Trusted and valued told me was the right way. So you got to give that up while going forward with this, which. Which was harder, giving up this old way of thinking or adapting to a new way of thinking, which was scary.
- [23:10]
B
You got. You got to get out of the old way of thinking. And.
- [23:17]
A
And it was your children, really, that started that, seeing your kids.
- [23:19]
B
It was my children. But, you know, you got. You got to talk to the Lord too. You know, you got to talk to the Lord. You know, you got. You got to get a relationship and talk to him and. And he'll point you in the right direction. He pointed me in the right direction. He had me talk to different organizations, like the YES Institute. Big Institute.
- [23:41]
A
Tell me. So when you. After two weeks, you said, you retract or not? You retract, I apologize.
- [23:46]
B
But nobody took the apology, you know, really, really seriously. And so, But I knew what I had to do. So I. Me and my crew, my people, we seeked out some different groups. And which group was the best group for me to go to institutes that best can, you know, I could sit down and have an in depth dialogue and talk with them. And it was called the YES Institute. And it was really, really, really right by my house. Like, I could walk to it if I wanted to. And I mean, I mean, I mean, I could walk. It was about a 40 minute walk.
- [24:27]
A
The answer's 40 minutes away just to walk.
- [24:31]
B
But, you know, drive is like, yeah.
- [24:33]
A
Yeah, you know, that's the story of life.
- [24:36]
B
And I'm gonna tell you this. I used to drive because it was traffic on us. One, I used to drive past there to get past traffic every day. Did not even know that that was a place where people come to get comfort for being gay or transgender or whatever. And I went there and they. They opened their arms to me and we did a bunch of stuff for about, I say about four or five months.
- [25:02]
A
What are you doing with them?
- [25:03]
B
So we doing. So actually, different groups are coming in, and we have, in dialogue, we having seminars with different groups from Philadelphia, another group from New York, some other groups from out in Miami, Fort Lauderdale, you know, and then we had one, one young lady, she was about 6, 7, and. And her name was Raj. And she was really, really, really in a bad place. Really, really in a bad place. And we, we. We really helped her out that's what it made. That's what made it so great. You know, I was there to help. Help. Yeah. I saw the difference. I made a difference. Saw the difference. And it. It felt great to. To. Because the parents put him out. He was being bullied. It was just a lot of things going. He wanted to commit suicide. But we talked to him. I talked to him and. And, you know, just a dialogue and have an in depth conversation with him. We pulled him out of suicidal, and it was just. It was just cool to be there and witness that and have fun, you know, I really enjoyed it, tell you.
- [26:30]
A
The truth, see it in you.
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B
I really enjoyed it. Yeah. I really enjoyed it. And I had fun. And.
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A
And this is the. This is your first time even hearing these stories.
- [26:39]
B
Yeah.
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A
My own family threw me out because I'm gay.
- [26:42]
B
Yeah.
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A
And that's when you're like, oh, holy right? I didn't even.
- [26:45]
B
I didn't even know that. And, you know, he getting bullied while he's out there. You know, people are bullying him. People are doing stuff to him that is not right. You know, these are. These are people. These not. I mean, forget about being gay or transgender. These are people.
- [27:03]
A
Yeah. They're human beings.
- [27:04]
B
They're human beings, and. And people are doing stuff to them that. Because they don't like who they are, what they are. So I. I really got into it and. And, you know, I. When I hear people talk, like, hey, man. Oh, young lady. Hey, that's nothing to joke with. You know, these are people's lives. You know, these are people that. That, I mean, they struggling, and you. And you don't want nobody to mess with you while you struggling, you know, so. Same courtesy. Be respectful. You know, so I. I could really talk to people and really make them see or make them understand that that's not the road that you want to go down.
- [27:47]
A
So you say you have three children.
- [27:48]
B
Yeah, I have three children.
- [27:49]
A
Were you ever worried they would be homosexual? Any of them? Was it ever a concern?
- [27:54]
B
No, it was never. Never a concern.
- [27:56]
A
And what.
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B
But if they did.
- [27:59]
A
Yes.
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B
That wouldn't throw him out.
- [28:01]
A
Prior to the. You thinking the way you think now, how would you have handled prior?
- [28:06]
B
I still wouldn't throw him out.
- [28:07]
A
But what would you do?
- [28:08]
B
I would be. I would have been upset. I would have been upset.
- [28:12]
A
You wouldn't. These. Your kids aren't going where you help these people.
- [28:16]
B
Yeah, no, they go there. Help.
- [28:19]
A
Right.
- [28:19]
B
To. To talk to, you know, until they're not living there. They not living there. They living at My house, they don't eat my food. You know, we still gonna have a conversation? You know, it probably took me a while to, to, to, to get used to it, but I would have got used to it or you know, but it, it would took me a while. But you, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't outcast and have my kids out there alone and not knowing what to do and how to do it. You would have a house to live in, no question.
- [28:50]
A
Who, without naming any names or anything, who in your family was homosexual that, that first came to you and did you know, was this their first time coming out to let you know, hey, I'm gay. And this really bothered me.
- [29:05]
B
Yeah, you know, I, I don't, I don't wanna.
- [29:08]
A
Yeah.
- [29:08]
B
You know, it was relative of my, very close relative of mine and my, my, my, my kids knew he was gay. I didn't and they guessed it or.
- [29:20]
A
They knew like they knew.
- [29:21]
B
They knew. Yeah, they had a dialogue and he, he and they told me, I was like, what? So wow. You know, and I talked to him and yeah, he told me and we just went from there.
- [29:37]
A
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B
Right.
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A
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- [34:06]
B
No.
- [34:07]
A
You're 40s. Yeah. You could easily just stood 10 toes down, be like, no, that's just the way I feel. And it.
- [34:12]
B
Right.
- [34:12]
A
You know, that's a lot of old people's way. Oh yeah, I don't give a. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. But for you to see pain in, in your own kids and, and your own family and then, and then going and helping and seeing like, holy, this is happening, these people just because of a sexual preference.
- [34:29]
B
And, and, and what I see it, and you know, Tim Hardaway, what Tim Hardaway said, it made it seem like, it made it for people to go out there and continue to harm folks because you co signed, right? Yeah, I co signed their way of belief. And, and, and, and, and when I, when I truly found that out, I was like, oh no, that, that, no, no, I don't want, no, I don't want, I don't want that to happen. I don't want people to say, well, Tim Hardaway said it was all right. Not at all. Not at all. Yeah. Yeah. No, I did not want that.
- [35:16]
A
Yeah, that would be terrible.
- [35:17]
B
Yeah, that would be terrible.
- [35:19]
A
Oh my God. So now do you continue, do you have your own organization? You, you could you continue to work with the community?
- [35:28]
B
I always worked with the community in Chicago. I Do a lot of stuff in.
- [35:32]
A
Chicago still go back and like, talk or.
- [35:35]
B
Yeah, always go talk. I always go talk to kids. I always, you know, make it known, you know, if you, if something wrong with you and you need to talk to somebody, talk and talk to them because, you know, I tell them, I said, we didn't have nobody to talk to. We were scared to talk to somebody. Our parents, like, if you bet not tell them what's going on in this house. I'm 59.
- [35:53]
A
I'm 52. And I always say we were the walk it off generation.
- [35:56]
B
Yes.
- [35:56]
A
Ain't nobody tall too. Ain't nobody make you feel better. Walk it off.
- [36:00]
B
Yeah, yeah, walk it off. I got used and I walk it off. That's. That's what we did. That's why, that's why you play sports. You ran, you ran track or you played basketball, you play football. You had to get that off your chest. You had to get it off your back. And a lot of. And I, and I, I, I said, you know, we. It wasn't mentally ill when we was growing up. Nobody said, you mentally ill. Somebody is mentally ill. It was like you was fucked up or you wasn't fucked up.
- [36:30]
A
Yeah.
- [36:31]
B
You know, and that was that. But. But there was nobody to talk to, and you had to, you had to just have it all in. And now I tell kids, hey, if, if you got something to talk about to somebody, talk to somebody.
- [36:46]
A
Find a good person.
- [36:47]
B
Yeah, find. Find somebody that you trust. I don't care who it is. But you talk to my mom.
- [36:51]
A
She was like, my mom. And I was like, man, thank God because I have parents. She's there and listening to me. And she would also a really. A good thing she did for me. And I still talk to her. She's 80 now, thinking she'll be mad at me if she's 78. But either way, she would always take the other side on purpose and then have. Or have me do it. It and argue the other point. Okay, so if we were to. If I'd have said what you said, she would have made me argue. Now why do you support them?
- [37:20]
B
Right.
- [37:20]
A
And I would have to make me think, well, this. And it really did start to open my mind up and well, damn, there are. There are other sides of all this highway in the only way and right. You know, two middle fingers up to everybody.
- [37:31]
B
Right. Right.
- [37:32]
A
So tell me about your upbringing. You're. Are you from the Chicago area?
- [37:36]
B
Yeah, I'm from Chicago. Born and raised on the south side of Chicago.
- [37:39]
A
Dad an athlete. Or mom and athlete.
- [37:41]
B
Yeah. My dad was a playground legend. Everybody knew him. Donald Hardaway. I used to go watch him play all the time, and the only thing I could do at that particular time was sit on a basketball. And then, yeah, you know, my mom, she was. You know, both of them worked. Both of them was together until all the way up to sixth grade. And that's when she decided to leave him because he was abusive. You know, he was abused. Abusive, Domestic violence, you know.
- [38:11]
A
You see that witness?
- [38:12]
B
Yeah. Witnessing.
- [38:13]
A
Are you the only child?
- [38:15]
B
No, I'm the oldest.
- [38:16]
A
Of how many?
- [38:17]
B
One. I mean, two of us. Two of you? Me and my brother, and he's seven years younger than me, and, yeah, I saw it. He was alcoholic. You know, alcohol is definitely disease, and it can help hamper your living.
- [38:33]
A
You just said it's a disease.
- [38:34]
B
It is a disease.
- [38:35]
A
I had David Koechner on here recently saying the same thing. And the comments on that. That particular promo blew me away because there's so many people arguing that it's not a disease. No, it's a disease, and I'm not an alcoholic. But I've sat across them, enough of them on this show and in my life that I firmly believe it is, too.
- [38:52]
B
No, it is a disease. I seen it firsthand. The alcoholism is a disease, and it. You. You have to hit rock bottom before you can start controlling it, you know, you have to. You have to come to a realization that I ain't got nowhere else to go except up, and I got to stop this, or I'm gonna go deeper down, you know, so.
- [39:19]
A
So when they split, you go with mom or Dad. I want you back. And for Mom.
- [39:23]
B
No, no, no, no. It was Mom. Dad was, you know, still an alcoholic once we left. You know, he was still drinking and carrying on for a while, and I had to literally have him not coming to my games in high school. I had to. You know, and I was scared to tell.
- [39:40]
A
Drunk or something.
- [39:41]
B
Yes. And. And, you know, yelling and stuff, and I had to.
- [39:44]
A
He's that guy we're talking about.
- [39:45]
B
Right, right, right. And I had to. I had to tell.
- [39:48]
A
No wonder you wanted to go down and tell that dude for real. Also, you had a little extra sauce on that.
- [39:54]
B
I'm sure it's not because of that. It was in there. Yeah, but. No, it wasn't that. But, yeah, I had. You know, that was. That was the hardest thing for me to do.
- [40:02]
A
Look, you'd have to tell them that.
- [40:03]
B
I want you to tell them. Yeah, you can't. You can't you.
- [40:05]
A
You.
- [40:05]
B
Unless you stop drinking, you. You can't. You can't come to my games anymore.
- [40:09]
A
And I, you know, would that anger him or upset?
- [40:12]
B
See, as I'm telling him, I don't know. I don't know. But as I'm telling him, I'm, like, scared, shaking, ready to cover up, ready to run, ready to do whatever I need to do to get away from him so I won't get beat up. But he took it. And now, that was very surprising of me.
- [40:32]
A
And he didn't come.
- [40:33]
B
And he didn't come until he got himself together.
- [40:35]
A
Together. Okay, so he got himself together.
- [40:36]
B
Yeah, he got himself together, but, you know, they stayed real. Yeah. Miss them, but, you know, they relapse here and there. But he didn't come to the games anymore. Being an alcoholic. I mean, drinking. So he.
- [40:48]
A
How old was he when he passed?
- [40:49]
B
My dad's still living.
- [40:50]
A
He's 82, 83.
- [40:52]
B
82 years old. Oh, yeah. He seen me in the NBA and been. The games. He been. He been sober for about, what, 35 years?
- [41:00]
A
Oh, wow.
- [41:01]
B
Yeah, maybe 40 years. Yeah, I stopped keeping up with it.
- [41:04]
A
But that's impressive.
- [41:05]
B
Yeah, it's very impressive.
- [41:06]
A
An older man from a different era who changed. You yourself changed.
- [41:10]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [41:10]
A
Good for you.
- [41:11]
B
But, you know, we had a conversation when I was in the NBA, when I was in Miami, actually, we had a conversation. It came out, and he said, I didn't know you felt that way. I said, well, you know, we never had a conversation about it, but since we're gonna have a conversation, this. I really feel about it and what. What you did and how you did, and. And I. I let them know that, you know, I. I wasn't cool with it. I'm still not cool with it. You. You, my dad, I love you, but I'm. You know, it's still hard for me to, you know, not accept you, but. But. But forgive you. I can't. I. You know, it's hard. It's still hard for me to forgive you. I still love you and everything, but, you know, what you did was. Was tough. It was tough. And, you know, it's still, you know, I still remember a lot of things I'm saying.
- [42:03]
A
Like, I hear what you're talking about, so I'm sure you mean overall in general, too, but I'm also sure you're talking about you seeing him put hands on your mom.
- [42:11]
B
Yeah, of course. Of course, of course. Aftermath, of course, of course. Yep, of course. You know, and it was. That was tough. And you Know, when you. And I asked them, I said, yo, I'm.
- [42:27]
A
I'm.
- [42:27]
B
I'm gonna put certain things in this book. I need for you all to tell me yes or no. And once I got through with that segment, I gave it to them. Both of them said they couldn't read it. They got to the first.
- [42:45]
A
Talking about mom and dad.
- [42:46]
B
Yeah, mom and Dad. I said, well, y' all got to read it. So you can let me know. Should. What Should I exclude? What should I keep? What, what, what? And they never told me none, so I just left it as is. And, you know, in some things that you have to say the right way and, and put it on paper the right way. And once I read it, you know, Jacob Utley utterly. He did a great job at putting it in the way that I. I was saying it and not how I was meaning it, because you, you, you. You can hear what I'm saying, but you. You know what I mean? You know, so he put it down exactly how I said it, and he understood. I was like, your voice. My voice. Right? And I said, look, look, you know, you, you, you, you. This is. This is kind of tough because I don't want both of them to feel ashamed about anything, which they still are. My mom's gonna feel ashamed that she shouldn't. She should never let that happen. She left. Left him early. And then my dad's gonna feel ashamed that, you know, he did that to her. And, you know, and everybody's gonna know that. So it. But, you know, I, I. I try to put it as mildly as I could.
- [44:18]
A
Well, this is the other thing, too. You know, it's a lesson in life to just be a nice person.
- [44:24]
B
Yeah.
- [44:25]
A
Because you don't know who the. Your kid's gonna turn out to be.
- [44:28]
B
Right.
- [44:29]
A
Right. If he's gonna publish a book, if they're gonna have a podcast. There's a thing called the Internet. What are you talking about? Oh, yeah, we got to tell all the y'. All. Did you know what I mean? So now it's just like, man, cameras are everywhere, microphones are everywhere.
- [44:44]
B
But, you know, he, He, He. He was there when my mom needed him to straighten us up. You know, my mom. Okay, so he was there, my mom.
- [44:53]
A
You all were getting out of line.
- [44:56]
B
I was like, yeah, whatever. She called him up the first time he came by and got us real quick, and. And he. And we found out that, yeah, he. He's gonna come.
- [45:07]
A
Santa's real Bad. Santa's real.
- [45:11]
B
He's gonna come. You know, you, You Know you got. You gotta test your. Yeah, yeah. You test your mind. Yeah, right. He ain't coming by right? Whatever. That dude came back, knock on that door. I was like, oh, Lord. Yeah, yeah. We got right. We got right. We got right. And then she's like, you want me to make that phone call? Call. No, do not make that. No, no, no, no, we cool. My bad. I'm sorry. Yeah. And every time. Every time you want to do something or talk crazy or something like that, like. Oh, yeah, no, I'm not. I want. Not. No, no, no.
- [45:50]
A
What made you want to write this book? What? What?
- [45:53]
B
Well, you know, everybody. You know, I talk about a lot of stuff, dad. Basketball, growing up in Chicago, gangs. What made me. What. What made Tim Hardaway to be Tim Hardaway? Why was I this type of player? Why did I have that type of mindset? And. And everybody's like, yo, you should write a book. You should write a book. And I. And everybody kept saying it, kept saying that you should write a book. And so Jacob called. He was like, no, he called. He calls Tim Donovan. Miami Heat guy. Miami Heat guy. Miami Heat PR guy. Me and Tim Donovan. Great, great pet. One of the best in the business. And Tim hit me and. And it went on. And Jacob called me up and. And it just went from there. And I just said, fine. And every week. Every week. Every week for about what, six months. We was just talking for about two, two and a half hours. And. But I. I mean, then I. When I started reading it, I was like, wow, this really about to happen. You know, I'm really about to tell everybody my story and. And everybody want to hear my story. And Growing up in the city of Chicago was tough, man. Time. It was tough.
- [47:22]
A
You mentioned gangs.
- [47:23]
B
Gangs.
- [47:24]
A
Did you run with gangs?
- [47:25]
B
No, I didn't. I did not run. I stayed away from gangs. I knew about gangs. I knew personnel on gangs. I've been to meetings and seen what happened in meetings.
- [47:36]
A
What do you mean?
- [47:37]
B
Like, Like a gang meeting? Like a gang. Like warriors, if anybody ever seen Warriors. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, throwing up gang signs and wearing your hat this way, that way.
- [47:48]
A
And it's like a meeting.
- [47:50]
B
It's like. It's like. But it's at the headquarters. Are you. No, no, no. They didn't recruit. No, no.
- [47:55]
A
I was just.
- [47:56]
B
I was just dead.
- [47:57]
A
Okay. You were a guest.
- [47:58]
B
I was. No, I just knew some people, right. I was just looking, you know, I was just looking. I was like, bro, this was going on. Wow. This was happening. Wow. You gotta know the literature. You Know, I gotta know this, you know, I mean, because if you. If you want to become in the gang, that's what you got to do anyway. You got to go there and look at everything and. And then you'd be like, no, I'm not gonn. But I mean. But I. They knew I wasn't gonna be in the game. So I just went, just. Just to see what was happening. I was like, oh, yeah, this is. This is very different. This is very different. And you know, the arrow rookings, the disciples, the vice lords, you know it. You know, the traveling vice lords, this person that. It was. It's crazy. It's crazy. And the way we grew up, you had to know where you was at, at what territory you was at, how to wear your hat. I stopped wearing hats.
- [48:52]
A
You had to know. What do you mean by how? Like color or the way you are, like you can't tilt it or backwards.
- [48:57]
B
And you had to. You had to wear straight. Because if it was one way, either or that meant something, that meant something else.
- [49:02]
A
Backwards probably means something else.
- [49:04]
B
No, backwards, you. And if it's backwards and it's one way or the other way, that means something else. So that's why I stopped wearing hats.
- [49:10]
A
Yeah, I would too. God forbid you sweat and take it off and it's just. Hooker. Crooked, a little bit cockeyed over here.
- [49:17]
B
You're getting. Right, right. You put. No, you wasn't getting shot. You was getting beat up. Back then, nobody was getting shot. You was getting beat up. And. But yeah, it was tough, man. You know, drugs, alcohol. It was tough. It was tough. You know, you playing basketball and the ball go out of bounds. Somebody running the ball. Yo, let me hit that. Somebody hit a joint, you know. You know, somebody take a squig of a beer or something like that. And playing basketball, I mean, hey, that's the way it was. But nobody, you know, only gangs was, you know, beating up people. They weren't killing nobody. And then, you know, and just drugs. But yeah, we, We. You know, how to conduct yourself and everything. But, yeah, it was tough. You. I didn't want to be either or. Because I knew I couldn't survive in that. I. That wasn't my survival.
- [50:12]
A
Listen, I liked. I'm from Baltimore originally. I like to. Listen, I like to think I'm tough. I wouldn't last two days in prison. The first day I'd be crying the whole time. They kill me or whatever on the second. I am not built for that.
- [50:26]
B
Right, it's not, but it's none of that. But it's not only prison, though. It's. It's. It's the way you got to go at. For gang. The meetings and all that type of stuff. It's like the gangs are your family. So you going home. It's 15 people coming with you to the.
- [50:43]
A
The.
- [50:44]
B
To the house. I see your mom, so. And so here's 15 people in your crib and your mom's crib.
- [50:49]
A
Yeah.
- [50:49]
B
Where the water at? Where this at? You're not cooking. You know, stuff like that. They run the house. That's. That's what they doing. Then they leave out. All right, Mom, I'll be back. You might have four or five people come back with you. They sleep there. That gang is a family. That's what it's about. And your mom, either. She gonna kick them out, she gonna let you do it if she wants. If she lets you do it the first time, it's gonna happen. It's. They. They run the whole house.
- [51:14]
A
House.
- [51:14]
B
They running everything. So, yeah, so, yeah, I. I knew my parents wouldn't. My mom wasn't going for that. My dad wasn't going for that. So, yeah, I chose not leave the gangs alone, Lee. And I knew I. Drugs wasn't my thing.
- [51:28]
A
So you stay out of it. When do you realize you have something with basketball? Like something real?
- [51:33]
B
Something real.
- [51:34]
A
You can go to the league. Not.
- [51:35]
B
I just wanted to go to college. I just wanted to go to college. And the best thing for me was when I went to Texas.
- [51:40]
A
Really? You had no intention originally of dreams of NBA. You just wanted to get to college first?
- [51:46]
B
Well, I wasn't really thinking about NBA. I hear you. I was just thinking about basketball and getting to college and getting out of Chicago and just doing something. And as I come back home for summer league pro am, you know, I know I was good. Then I became really, really good. Then I became really, really, really good. And then.
- [52:13]
A
But when are you seeing that? You know what I mean?
- [52:15]
B
I'm seeing it every year.
- [52:16]
A
So when you're seeing it, you're able to tell yourself, like, yeah, we're getting better. Yeah, all right. We're doing better this year. We're getting better.
- [52:22]
B
We're better at that now.
- [52:23]
A
Stronger at this now. Right, okay.
- [52:25]
B
Right. Every year. Every year. And, you know, I get to tell a story. Guy was like, yeah, you know, MJ is coming tonight. I was like, okay, mj. You know, I don't know. MJ is. I'm like, we got. We about to win this thing, you know, and some league pro am he was like, no. I was like, man. He says.
- [52:45]
A
He said.
- [52:46]
B
He said, michael Jordan. I said, okay, Michael Jordan, y' all gonna lose tonight. So I'm in a layup line and this. And that guy walks up to me and he said, hey, Tim, I got a bet. I said, what's the bet? He said, well, you gotta score within four points of Michael Jordan. I said, okay, cool. I said, how much you getting? He said, hunt.
- [53:06]
A
So let me. I want to understand this. Bet within four. So Jordan puts up 30. You got to have at least 26, easy. Okay?
- [53:13]
B
I said, that's easily done. I'm going to do that. If he had. He has 62 now. He has 64. I had 60. So, yeah.
- [53:21]
A
So I've never heard this within four. This is a new bet.
- [53:24]
B
Yeah, it was crazy bet. I said, okay, cool. And I said, what? How much is it? He said, about a hundred thousand. I said, you go, so you gonna get a hundred thousand. Said, what? I'm gonna get? He said, what you want? I said, I want that new Louis Vuitton jacket you got. He was like. I said, you got a minute and a half to tell me once. They no bet. He come back. 20 seconds left. Bet. I said, oh, and I need 10,000. My mom needs to pay bills. It wasn't that much, but, you know, we need some more. Yeah, yeah. Right, right, right.
- [53:57]
A
You know, he's just a contract guy.
- [53:59]
B
Right, right. So he was like, all right, cool, cool, cool. So great game. Me, Nick Anderson, Kendall Gill, Alfred Hughes. My buddy Donald Breeze on the team, Byron Irving. We playing against Mike, Terry Cummings, Craig Hodges, and who else was it? About three or four other college players, too. And I mean, we hooping.
- [54:22]
A
We hooping.
- [54:23]
B
Jim is packed. We hooping. Michael Jordan supposed to foul out twice, but, you know, that's Michael Jordan. So you. You only thing they said was you.
- [54:33]
A
You.
- [54:33]
B
You take your two free throws and then you. You get the. You retain the ball. He's like, all right, cool. So he can stay because it's for the crowd, it's for the. It's for the fans. It's no fee to get in. Everything is free.
- [54:45]
A
Oh, okay, so.
- [54:46]
B
So it's free. So it's jam packed.
- [54:48]
A
Oh, hell yeah.
- [54:48]
B
We. We already over capacity. The. The Fire Marsh. And then they said they saw Michael was playing, they stopped. They. They was like, look, we gonna get in trouble. Yeah.
- [55:00]
A
Yeah.
- [55:01]
B
So, yeah. So we lose the game in double overtime. And Mike comes up and says, good game. That was really good game. He looked at me, he said, you got A chance. And I was going into my junior year. He said, yeah, you got a chance. I was like, like, damn. MJ said, I got a chance. I was like that. You know how that, that, that, that window was up, that door opened up just an inch. I kicked that in. I said, if I got a chance, I'm, I'm in. I'm in.
- [55:38]
A
And, and it wasn't just anybody.
- [55:40]
B
No.
- [55:41]
A
That said you had no.
- [55:43]
B
It was Michael Jordan.
- [55:44]
A
This is just an inspirational.
- [55:47]
B
Guy. This the guy?
- [55:48]
A
Yeah. The guy on the shoes telling.
- [55:51]
B
He didn't say you. He didn't say you was, you was, you was going to make it.
- [55:54]
A
He said, you got a chance.
- [55:56]
B
You got a chance. And that's just, that's all I need.
- [55:57]
A
To work at it and do what you need to do.
- [56:00]
B
Yes, you will make here. Right? I was like, good, good. So, you know, and I, and I listen to folks too as I growing up. I say, you know, listening is a skill. It's not an art. It's a skill. People need to, young people need to listen to what people, people is saying and stop shooting off at the mouth, you know? Right. Like when you get through talking, right. They, they write back at you. Right back at you. Like, like they mean or they mad about something. They don't want you to tell them anything. I listen to what people told me and, and it helped me out in my life, in the course of my life. And I tell people it's a. It takes a village to raise a kid. It takes a village to raise a kid. But the kid has to listen. And if the kid doesn't.
- [56:39]
A
Yep.
- [56:39]
B
Listen, he's not going to make it. We had a bunch of guys that was better than me. Isaiah, Mark Guire, Terry Cummings, Nick Anderson, Kendall Gill, Derrick Rose. We had a bunch of people that was way talented than us, but they didn't listen. That's why they didn't make it. If they would ever listen and understood what people was telling them, they would have made it just like we made it. But we listened and that's the difference between us and them. But we, I'm not saying that we was better than them at basketball. They was better than us.
- [57:19]
A
You're coachable and you listen and you learned.
- [57:22]
B
We listen.
- [57:23]
A
Yeah. So let me ask you this before we wrap it up here. Give me a welcome to the to the league moment. It. John gave us one. He put up 12 on the 90s bulls. But he said, he went up and pip and blocked one into the stands and said, welcome to the league.
- [57:39]
B
Okay.
- [57:40]
A
What's the first time you got one?
- [57:42]
B
I'm gonna give you one. All right, so we had Texas El Paso and my first rookie game, preseason game. So playing Utah Jazz go out and Utah.
- [57:55]
A
Are you with Golden State at the time?
- [57:57]
B
Golden State Warriors. And, you know, we getting in a huddle. All right, yo, let's go. Have a good game. Blah, blah, blah. It's okay. Tim, lead us out. So I'm in. I'm at home. I'm like, ah, cool. I get to lead the team out. I run out there, and I see Utah Jazz looking at me like, you. They don't. They laughing. They don't know that they. That he's. They looking at me like he don't know that they still up in the tunnel. And so. So to announce it, and Tim Hardaway. And I looked around, I was like, oh, they got me, but I'm. I'm in El Paso. So I raise up my hands. I was like, yeah, I'm back home. And they gave me a stand.
- [58:37]
A
Okay, so it worked for you.
- [58:41]
B
I flipped it back on. They clowned me, but I flipped it back on. But it was a good game. We beat. We beat Utah that night, and it was good game. And. But I'm gonna tell you this. First game against Kevin Johnson. Yeah. He me up. How? In each and every way, offensively, defensively. He was in my hand. He crossed me over. He did everything. Everything. Jump shot in my face. Everything. Everything. I. I couldn't do nothing right. He. He me up.
- [59:21]
A
He did.
- [59:21]
B
Yeah. I went back. I could not get no sleep that night. I'm like, damn, this dude me up. I'm gonna get him back. I'm gonna get him back. The next. Next time we played him, oh, yeah, I got some guy back.
- [59:35]
A
You did?
- [59:35]
B
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But no, he. He. I mean, I was. I had me turn around on defense and crossing me over, shooting in my face. I'm coming down, stripping, like, I'm about to shoot. Stripping the ball. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that. That. But. But, I mean, that was probably my. And that was like the first game. First to second game of the season. So that was like. And they played the Warriors. Played them in the. In the playoffs the year before. So they was like, okay, yeah, it was heated. So, yeah. Yeah, man. And.
- [60:07]
A
Yeah, let me ask you the other way, because obviously you're a Hall of Fame player, Killer crossover, all that. When is there a game or a moment where you were like. Like, yeah, I'm. I got this. I'm gonna be around. I'M gonna, I'm gonna be one of the best.
- [60:22]
B
You know what? You, you never, you, I don't, I.
- [60:24]
A
Don'T think, I mean in a bragging way, but where you were like, I, I, this is gonna be my job. I can do this and I can do it well, how about that?
- [60:35]
B
My, my rookie year, I forget who.
- [60:43]
A
And.
- [60:45]
B
Had a good game. Had a really good game against a really good team. I forget, I forget who it was. And I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna be all right. I mean, I had like, I didn't have like 30 points. I had like 20 points, 15 assists, something like that, and about five, six steals. And I was like, okay. Yeah, I think it was against Seattle before Gary Payton got there. But I was like, yeah, I'm gonna be okay. I'm, you know, this is, yeah, I'm gonna be all right. And, and then went from there the next year, you know, I was all star.
- [61:20]
A
Hell yeah. I forgot to ask, did you went double overtime. Did you get within four, Jordan?
- [61:25]
B
Yeah.
- [61:26]
A
You got the Louis money?
- [61:28]
B
Yeah, yeah, he got his money. No, Mike has 64. I had 60. Damn. Yeah.
- [61:33]
A
That's a shitload of points.
- [61:35]
B
No, yeah, we was hooping.
- [61:36]
A
You really were going.
- [61:37]
B
Yeah, we was. Yeah, no, no, we, I was going for the win.
- [61:40]
A
I know.
- [61:40]
B
I forget all the other stuff. It just happened to be that way. I could, I could now, now, now if I was over, like, if I, if I scored, say if I scored 40, he scored 36, then I still would have won.
- [61:52]
A
Oh, so you could have been four either way.
- [61:55]
B
Right?
- [61:55]
A
Outscoring them too.
- [61:56]
B
Right. Or if I would outscore them more. Yeah, then, you know, I could have, I still would have been good, but. Yeah, but nah, it just happened to go that way. But yeah, man, it was, man, it was, was a great game. It was a great game. One probably, probably won the best Pro ams game that in, in the city of Chicago. That it was.
- [62:17]
A
That's awesome, man.
- [62:18]
B
Yep.
- [62:18]
A
Listen, thank you for doing this. I can't thank you enough for coming on my last question. Advice you would give 16 year old.
- [62:25]
B
Tim Hardaway, man, you know, the same advice people gave me. Listen, listen, listen and understand.
- [62:35]
A
You know, there needs to be a lot more of that going on right now.
- [62:39]
B
There needs to be a lot more going on right now. If you listen and understand and be quiet, everything will be, you know, all right. It's a lot of people that don't listen and don't be quiet. You know, just listen and, and, and.
- [62:56]
A
The words are coming Shut the up, right?
- [62:59]
B
Yeah. Right, right, right. Shut the up.
- [63:01]
A
A lot more of that needs to be going on.
- [63:03]
B
I mean, a lot, a lot more of that. And I think we. It'd be a lot better.
- [63:06]
A
I agree.
- [63:07]
B
Because I did that and that's why Tim is in the NBA. If I didn't do that, I would have tore my family up and Tim wouldn't have been in the NBA.
- [63:15]
A
One more time. Promote the book.
- [63:19]
B
Killer crossover from the streets of Chicago to basketball royalty. Go get it. It's everywhere. It's out now. It's everywhere. Go to Amazon. Everybody. Getting off Amazon right now. Now. It'll tell you a lot about me, how I grew up, where I grew up, you know, my mentality on the basketball court, how, you know, as a father and just raising kids and being a husband. So this a must get a must get. A must read.
- [63:54]
A
Thank you, brother. Go get it. Holidays are coming. Get on Amazon. Get the book right now. Go watch my special streaming on YouTube. And as always, Ryan Sickler on all your social media. We'll talk to you all next week.