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This week, Kaveh Hoda is joined by comic illustrator, podcaster, and fellow Kaveh, Kaveh Taherian, for a candid conversation about the week Trump threatened to wipe Iranian civilization off the map — and why neither of them can move on from it.

They dig into the psychological and emotional toll this moment has had on the Iranian diaspora, the legal case that Trump's threats may violate the Geneva Conventions, and what polling data actually tells us about what Iranians inside and outside of Iran want. They also cover the latest on the failed JD Vance negotiations, Trump's proposed naval blockade of the Strait of Hormuz, and why keeping Iranian civilians at the center of this conversation matters more than ever.

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Two Kavehs Discuss the End of a Civilization.