← The Human Upgrade: Biohacking for Longevity & Performance
The Human Upgrade: Biohacking for Longevity & Performance
Peptide Power Without Needles: Smarter Dosing for Longevity | Justin Kirkland : 1477
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- [00:01]
A
You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Have you ever finished some kind of weird juice detox and ask yourself, why did I just do that to myself? Well, it's a good question because a lot of those things just don't work and some of them are just not even good for you. It turns out your body has detox systems and sometimes you just need to turn them on and give your body a little boost with binding toxins and the right nutrients can do that. That's why I've been using recovery bits from energy. It is an actual food, not a supplement. And it's got just a single ingredient that I've written about for 20 years. It's called chlorella, which is a unique form of algae. And when you process it properly, just like energy Bits does, it binds and removes toxins like heavy metals. So you don't need juices that don't work anyway, and you don't need weird synthetic powders. You can just go for concentrated real food. So if you want a smarter way to hack the heavy metals that are present in all of us because of our environment, this is an easy way to do it. You will not find me eating sushi without my energy bits. So head over to energybets.com, use code ASPREY for 20% off your order. Modern life keeps your nervous system in overdrive. Most solutions try to change your brain chemistry, but your body also runs on electrical signals and rhythms. Your brain uses electrical waves, your heart beats in patterns, and your nervous system sends sends signals through tiny pulses. Light and sound are also forms of energy your body can sense. Scientists have studied them for decades because certain wavelengths and frequencies influence how cells and nerves respond. That's why I use the One Device. It combines light and sound in a wearable. It sends gentle signals your body can respond to while you work, meditate or wind down. Most wearables just track stress. The One device supports your nervous system directly without any bl, Bluetooth or emfs. People who wear it report sleeping more deeply and feeling calmer, more focused, energized and grounded. It's wearable frequency support you can use all day long. Learn more@the1device.com Dave by now you've probably heard of peptides. You might have heard of them on the show I don't know, a decade ago or read about them in my longevity book. And they've been a part of my biohacking practice for a long time. And I didn't talk about them when I First started using them mostly because very few people were using them. And I was a little concerned that people would go nuts on them while we were still digesting things like red light therapy and psychedelics and others that are just entering the common universe of things we do. And we're to the point now where I felt comfortable enough to put them in a book and, and to really share information. But one thing that's happened is quality problems where there are peptides that maybe aren't what they say they are online. And this is because of just a lack of freedom in the supply chain. You should be able to buy what you want from who you want to buy it from without interference. It's called basic human rights. But some people don't believe in human rights. And we'll leave the politics aside for that. Um, other than just to establish that, yeah, freedom is important. And the other thing is you can do really stupid stuff if you have freedom. And there are more than 500 peptides out there and it's, it's relatively confusing. That said, there are people working to solve the problem of getting high quality peptides. And I think you might want to learn about peptides. So how about we bring a guest on with 30 years of making peptides, including peptides that don't require injection, whether because they work through the skin or orally, or are just easier to work with and are medically approved. So with no further ado, let's go deep with Justin Kirkland. Justin, you work with Amino Innovations. Welcome to the show.
- [04:12]
B
Yeah, thanks so much. Super excited to be here. Talk about one of my favorite topics.
- [04:17]
A
You know, I'm, I'm excited for you to be here. And I'm also a little bit nervous. I'm nervous because on a certain platform named Instagram and Facebook, I reposted something about a member of the government changing regulations on peptides, and because of that, they banned my ability to do live broadcasts to my 1.3 million followers. Now, I can talk about this here because we're not going to put this part on that platform. We'll just put it on X and we'll put it on Apple and we'll put on the other things. But it's really weird that even today where peptides are fully legal, certainly talking about them is legal. Well, for some reason, talking about them on certain platforms that are controlled by big pharma. Zuckerberg, maybe I don't know what's going on there, but you guys need to chill. If you listen to this, like, not cool. I'm not promoting anything crazy. I'm just talking about science. I don't even sell the things that said. Justin. That's why I'm a little bit intimidated. Like will they censor me? I don't think so though because you're doing stuff correctly. Right through doctors. Now how are you getting peptides to people?
- [05:29]
B
Yeah, so yeah, there's a lot of aspects you sort of just covered and we do run into them and I think a lot of that. Peptides are certainly banned from certain types of social media. Yeah, I've done interviews regarding peptide chemistry before and had the host say we're not going to put the word peptide in the name of the talk because we're terrified of, you know, losing all of our followers like you mentioned. And so we see that in different online forums. We see it with merchant accounts to trying to do commerce. And the other issue I run into quite frequently is how you classify peptides. And so someone might say this is an unapproved drug when we're talking about the peptide kpv. And that's accurate. It's not a prescription drug. But because it's naturally occurring, it definitely falls within the guidance of DSHEA that governs dietary supplements. So at Amino Innovations we have a KPV dietary supplement that's orally active but depending on whose lens you're looking at, the regulatory buckets are kind of different. And so a lot of times these just overarching just statements are just, they're not true.
- [06:37]
A
What's kpv? What does it do?
- [06:38]
B
Yeah, KPV is pretty awesome. It's a really, really good anti infective, it's really good for skin quality, operates kind of as an antibiotic and really you see the, the best activity as an anti inflammatory.
- [06:54]
A
Okay, what pathways does it go down for anti inflammatory stuff?
- [06:57]
B
Oh, good question. I don't know the details as much because I spend most of the time on the synthesis with kpv.
- [07:02]
A
Okay, so you make it more than
- [07:04]
B
I make it more than I look at the pharmacology of that specific one. It is one of the. When people talk about peptides not being orally active, KPV is one of the few that actually is KPV and BPC Dihexa. You see. So generally people say that they're not orally active. KPV does have oral activity and we do see a lot of benefits. We actually see some benefits from young people with acne taking it orally.
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A
Probably because of the anti biofilm stuff.
- [07:32]
B
Yeah, for sure.
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A
Okay, what makes a Peptide bioavailable if you take it orally versus some other way.
- [07:39]
B
Yeah. So you have to look at the metabolic pathways of those peptides. And so you'll hear and you know all of the social media stuff. The peptides are a chain of amino acids. And most of the time when we're making them synthetically, we are literally doing chemistry, attaching each amino acid one by one in sequence. What you see is that our body's designed to break down proteins and peptides. That's why we have enzymes. That's how we metabolize food. That's how we take in protein and break it down into various amino acids and rebuild it into different compounds and components of our body. With kpb, it's literally three amino acids that are the metabolic pathways not being exposed to enzymes that we've grown to use to metabolize it. So a lot of things, like Tesla Morland's an FDA approved peptide. It's administered by injection because we do have those enzymes that would normally break it down. So it would not have oral bioavailability.
- [08:40]
A
The way I look at that is each amino acid is a letter in the Alphabet, right? So you can take the letters and you can make a word, and the word is a peptide. And if you put a bunch of words together into a paragraph, that's a protein. So your bite of steak that has some protein in it is a collection of different kinds of proteins. It's got maybe some collagen in it and some other kinds of proteins. And, well, that's kind of like reading a chapter of a book. And you break it down, you break it down. But the small words, the if, ands and buts and nots, those are the small peptides that absorb in through the gut. And the bigger peptides that are large words like anti establishment or something, I don't know why I picked that one. But those are things that are gonna get broken down into the letters. So you can't take them orally. And so what we normally do is we would just inject them.
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B
Right.
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A
But you've worked on some ways to make injection easier, and there are some that you can just get in through the skin. Other ways, how does that work?
- [09:41]
B
Yeah, so there's a, there's a. Combinations of ways we approached it. When you look at medicine, regardless, or supplement supplements, at the end of the day, probably very few people on the entire planet really want to inject a drug or a vitamin. Nobody wants to pierce their skin with a needle. And then you have the extreme needle Phobia of people that don't even want to see them. And so that has been a barrier certainly in my career, seeing how peptides have grown in popularity. Initially it was, oh, that's injectable. Well then you've lost my interest. So we've approached it a few different ways. Number one is using the auto injector. So if you have a spring activated pen, you don't have to have the needle out and put air into a vial and then withdraw it. And then, you know, see the needle going into your skin. It takes away some of the, some of the phobia, some of the concern that people have with seeing the needles and the pain involved. You know, we see auto injectors a lot more with things like naloxone or Narcan when you have opiate addiction or I'm sorry, overdose. So you're using that medically. You see them with epinephrine, with you know, feasting pens, that kind of epipens. And so auto injectors have certainly been around. We've just seen them in the process we're doing and the way we're approaching it, we really haven't seen them applied to peptides as much.
- [11:05]
A
Another word for an auto injector would be a peptide pen.
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B
Yeah, in this case, absolutely.
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A
Okay, got it. And so you guys are actually shipping peptide pens ready to go. So have a little needle on them and you dial in the dose and you just stick it and it goes in.
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B
Yeah. So in this case, the pen's reusable. The vials are coming from a pharmacy, a compounding pharmacy, where they're prepared under prescription. And so the Precision Peptide company who I work for, we're offering telemedicine. So all of your followers and all your audience have the ability to go on the website, look at the products and then set up some telehealth visits. And then, yeah, one thing that when you and I talked about this is that the vials are a standard concentration and a standard size. And so they're going to fit the pens that come as part of the prescription. And then, yeah, you literally dial in what the doses are and you're able to self administer it in your home through a telemedicine program.
- [12:03]
A
So this is a really serious thing to understand. If you're using peptides, especially if you're using research grade or you're just mixing them yourself, even if they're coming from a pharmacy, they come in a little vial with powder in the bottom and you could add, you know, 1 milliliter of water or 10 milliliters of water, depending how much water you add, that's going to tell you how much concentration. So if your friend says, oh, I'm using this many units, it doesn't have any relevance to what you're doing because unless you both add the same amount of water to the same amount of powder, you can't compare the how much on your needle your friend uses. And this leads a lot of people to either get too much or too little of a peptide. So if someone says, you know, I'm using 50cc's or something, then you would want to know, well, what concentration of it. And they usually don't know.
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B
Right.
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A
It's kind of the wild west. It's not that hard. This is sixth grade math. But you just have to know that you need to do the math to find the concentration.
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B
Right? Yeah. No, we see this a lot. And the other problem are between pharmacies and between other online vendors that people buy their peptides from. Someone might be buying 10 milligram vial and someone else might be in a 5 milligram vial, might even be in the same vial. So even if they're using the same amount of water, like you said, the concentrations are going to be different.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And you and I both saying we're doing 10 units is a completely different dose.
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A
Right.
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B
So, yeah, there's a lot of confusion, especially on, you know, some of the public forums. I look at where people are talking about units and they really. They should be talking about micrograms or milligram doses.
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A
Yep. It's all about the milligrams, at least is how I think of it. And some of the things, you know, I buy from one place and they only. It's like there's only. Only 5 milligrams. I want to take 10 milligrams. I need two of the vials to take them in one day.
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B
Right.
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A
And then. Okay. And I'm not saying which particular one that is because I have no idea if we're allowed to talk about that one. So let's talk about Ozempic and GLP1s.
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B
Sure.
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A
It's like a $30 billion market, kind of tiny and things like that. That's a peptide, right?
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B
It is.
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A
And another famous one is insulin is a peptide, Right?
- [14:16]
B
Absolutely.
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A
So these things aren't exactly new. What makes those drugs, given they're naturally found in the body.
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B
Yeah. So with Geo, with your GLP1s, anytime you actually go in through a clinical trial, and I've been involved with this both in Canada and the U.S. even if it's a dietary supplement product, like I was involved with the synthesis of an alpha lipoic acid derivative. Totally over the counter supplement.
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A
This is potassium krella or something.
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B
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what I was working for a company. It was my very first chemistry job. Many years ago we got a cease and desist letter from a pharmaceutical company saying hey, we're entering a trial doing this. We spoke to our attorney, we're like, this is crazy. This is obviously a vitamin product. And what we found and what we've seen in recent years, I think with NMN and David Sinclair, was as soon as those vitamins enter a clinical trial, they're actually pulled out of the DSHEA act and no longer a supplement. And so NMN has been returned. From what I understand, it was stopped by customs for a while. But yeah, I mean these, these broad definitions of natural products get altered by the legal system. In that case, it seems like they're
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A
mostly altered by press release.
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B
Right, for sure.
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A
A bureaucrat decides there is no law and they're not doing it within the color of law. Even, even GHB was outlawed by press release, not by a change in legislation.
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B
Right, right. Yeah. No, I was in graduate school when all that was going on. Yeah.
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A
You could buy GHB at GNC and use it for growth hormone purposes.
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B
Right.
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A
And overnight it became illegal because of press releases.
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B
So that's another interesting compound because it's, it's multi scheduled. So I think GHB Schedule 1. But Xyrem, which is a pharmaceutical version of it's a different schedule.
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A
Shocking. You get a prescription for GHB and it's just fine. But if you want to buy it from your dealer, it's just not fine.
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B
Right.
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A
And it may not be fine because half of that stuff isn't actually ghb. It's a derivative. So not, not my favorite compound, but just it's an example of the fact that the legislation isn't. It doesn't follow its own rules and it's not rational.
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B
Right.
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A
Which is why in the realm of peptides, I think it's important to go with. Unless you're an expert in this stuff or you become one and you're not going to become one just on Reddit, as much as I like Reddit and all that. Because there are people there who are selling stuff who are lying and there are people there who are well meaning and just don't know what they're doing and will give you advice. They feel like they know what they're doing. What are you doing that's different?
- [16:49]
B
Yeah, so that's an awesome question. And I think we've solved a lot of problems that many people probably know existed. I'd say the first problem that we've solved is that, and you kind of alluded to it, and you definitely see this on Reddit is sourcing. And so if you don't have an analytical lab, which most people don't, I happen to have one at my place with an HPLC and a mass specs in your basement. First guy in my neighborhood. If you don't have that, you have to rely on either a third party, hopefully a PDF that can obviously be altered on the Internet, or somebody's referral on Reddit, which you've explained could also be somebody who's a vendor. So of course they're going to say their product's great. The reality is a massive, massive amount of pharmaceuticals precursors and chemicals come from China. Doesn't mean they're all bad. I've been working in the chemical and pharmaceutical industry for over three decades now and I've seen incredible products coming from China and I've seen really bad products. I mean, I've seen stuff mislabeled, I've seen stuff correctly labeled and you kind of have the full spread. So the first problem we solved was that supply chain. And so we are sourcing. And it sounds kind of crazy because I actually didn't really think this was ever going to happen. But we're actually using US made peptides. When I say they're, a lot of people say, oh, well, this is an American made peptide product and it's in the vial. It's generally speaking a Chinese API. API is the acronym for active pharmaceutical ingredient. So the peptide powder usually comes from China and then it's added to the vials through sterile filtering, lyophilized. And that's kind of some of the products you either see at pharmacies or online.
- [18:33]
A
So it's still Chinese made, but they put it in bottles.
- [18:35]
B
It is American. So it's American manufactured maybe from Chinese raw materials. I mean, we can go down a rabbit hole of, you know, the Kia made in car, the Korean car, made in Tennessee is an American car, it's a Korean car, a little bit of everything. But in this case, we're actually doing the chemical synthesis in the United States. So each one of those little amino acids that I'm talking about that's added on to make the peptide is actually synthesized in the U.S. does that mean
- [19:02]
A
we get like extra glyphosate with it or anything.
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B
Yeah, no, in this case, actually, it actually allows us to have a really clean product because when you're controlling the manufacturing, you know, you're controlling all the quality.
- [19:14]
A
Now when people are ordering unknown peptides, what are the manufacturing mistakes that happen right now? Chances are you're low in a really important fat. It's a fat that your body needs to age. Well, you've probably never heard of it, it's called C15, but scientists are starting to call it a longevity nutrient. C15 supports your cell membranes in a unique way. When your levels drop, your cells become more fragile and you age more quickly. Fatty 15 is a supplement that delivers pure C15 and here's why. It's unlike anything else you can buy. It's a true geroprotector, which means it can slow down aging at this cellular level because it helps to strengthen cell membranes. It supports mitochondrial function and helps to regulate key aging pathways. Most people don't get enough C15 from their diet, so levels drop over time. Fatty 15 is a solution. Fatty 15 supports healthy aging for everyone from kids to parents to grandparents. That's why it's now available in clean capsules. They also make a delicious apple mint gummy that my teens love. And their berry blast gummies. Well, pretty much kids love those. Doesn't really matter which way you get it, as long as you get some of this. Because your cell membranes need to function at every stage of life. And the earlier you start, the better off you'll be. Go to fatty15.comdave to get an extra 15% off their 90 day start again again. That's fatty15.comdave for a simple way to cover what your body's missing.
- [20:46]
B
Yeah, so there's a lot. The one that I think sort of near and dear to me is that at my first compounding pharmacy I worked at about 10 years ago, I had one of the employees come to me and say, hey, my labs don't look great. Something's wrong. And I said, well, what's wrong? They said, well, my liver enzymes are skyrocketing. My ALT and asd, they're really high. And I said, well that's, that's kind of crazy. You know what's changed? Nothing's changed. Something must have happened. Back in the 90s, you might often see that when some of the pro hormones were available at over the counter and they were 17 methylated steroids, really hard on the liver. It turned out that this person was taking some Peptides and I ended up getting a sample of it. And what do you know, I have a friend with a fluorine nmr. You know, we sent it in for overnight testing on his NMR and it came back full of fluorine. And the reason this is significant is that when you're doing the synthesis, peptide synthesis is really sort of unique compared to generally other chemical manufacturing in the sense that it's on solid phase. What that means are there's tiny little spheres, little polystyrene balls that you're actually doing the synthesis on. They're derivatized and so if you could look at them under a microscope, you would see a little tail. And that's the tail that you're adding each amino acid onto one by one. When you're done making your full length peptide, you have to take it off of the resin and cleave it and use trifluoroacetic acid known as tfa. When you use the TFA and this stuff is like vinegar or acetic acid times a million, it's really, really strong smelling, it's really strong in its chemical activity. You actually end up with the TFA salt of these peptides.
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A
That is terribly toxic.
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B
No, it's very, very toxic for sure.
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A
My grandfather was, was one of the premier fluorine chemists on earth. That was his whole.
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B
Okay.
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A
He used it to purify plutonium and invented with that. But this is back when they were just discovering that acid.
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B
Right.
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A
And yeah, he had some stories about fluorine. It's so getting that in your peptides is horrifying.
- [22:59]
B
No, it definitely is. And so if you were to do an HPLC kind of a standard assay, you would see the peptide looks beautiful. It's, it matches your standard, it looks clean. And so the actual TFA analysis is there's a couple of different ways to do it. The fluorine NMR being one. But having that still in your products. Definitely, I mean I've seen it myself, it's going to cause liver injury. And you know, the whole point of all of us having these discussions is to, you know, to optimize our health, not harm it.
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A
What percentage of peptides that are coming from the gray market do you think might have this issue?
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B
Yeah, it's probably a small percentage because if you're, if you're harming your patients, you're probably not going to get a lot of repeat business. So it's not something you can repeat over and over. But it's definitely something that I have seen and you still continue to see. And a lot of times if you're looking online, if you're like a university researcher and you're trying to buy raw materials to do pharmacology studies, you're going to see it's the TFA salt. Because these are sort of things where you're looking at quick and easy assays and you're not really concerned about long term use because you're maybe you're doing something in a petri dish or some type of receptor binding. And so it's definitely there. And there's an entire another step called the salt exchange where we change it into acetic acid, the acetate salt. And that's typically there's a few other salts, but generally speaking you're going to see the acetate salts in most peptides and that's the active form you're going to want to be using.
- [24:27]
A
Okay, got it. So that's the biggest one. I've also seen reports where they're saying it's 99% pure, but the other 1% is lipopolysaccharid saccharide. What's happening there?
- [24:36]
B
Yeah, so it depends on the synthesis, it depends on the contaminants. There's, there's lots of possibilities. With lps you're generally seeing something that's oftentimes biologically manufactured. Okay. There's a lot of bioengineering of E. Coli to produce peptides. It's kind of been really neat, exciting area. The same thing with proteins. You see sometimes E. Coli or insect or even mammalian cells that they're using to make proteins and peptides. And so a lot of times on the biological, you'll see the LPS as a byproduct of the metabolism. And it's something that obviously you don't want to be consuming as well.
- [25:16]
A
That's kind of creepy. A million cells. Although if I could get like peptides on pangolin cells, like I'm don't, I'm saying kill pangolin, just like harvest a few cells. Like pangolin peptides would be kind of cool because maybe you get like superpowers. What do you think?
- [25:30]
B
At least super swimming.
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A
So more seriously, the kind of mammal you're talking about is probably chicken.
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B
It's actually something, this is kind of, I thought pretty humorous having a stronger background in chemistry than genetics. When I first started looking at this, you'll see the acronym cho, CHO cells. And in chemistry that's formaldehyde. And so I had to ask the biochemist, I said, what are these CHO cells? And they're Chinese hamster ovaries. And so that's generally how we're seeing some of the protein products manufactured there with the. With mammalian cells or Chinese hamster ovary cells.
- [26:11]
A
What could go wrong?
- [26:13]
B
Right. So, yeah, no, definitely, definitely. Really interesting area. So in our case, we're definitely doing everything by synthesis. It's chemical synthesis using the, you know, each of the amino acid building blocks.
- [26:23]
A
Got it. So then the process that you're doing in the US Is you have these tiny polystyrene balls, and they're the anchor. And then you, one at a time, you're sort of 3D printing or stacking each of the amino acids in order to make exactly the peptide you want. And then you're cleaving the polystyrene ball off with trichloro, triforoacetic acid, trifluoracetic acid. And then you're replacing that with basically vinegar acid, which makes it a safe product.
- [26:52]
B
Yeah, for sure. And I'm purifying it in that entire process, and it's a little. Slightly more complex than that. Each of the amino acids have protecting groups, and so there's deep protections and coupling agents. And one of the reasons that solid phase synthesis is so exciting is that it doesn't allow the product to filter through the filter. So we can keep rinsing the byproducts or the coupling agents away so that it makes the chemistry keep going on. And when you look at something like, like Tesla Moreland, for example, it's 43amino acids. That's 42, because we usually buy the first one attached. That's 42 steps of chemistry. It's just over and over and over. It's a really long, extensive process.
- [27:30]
A
That is so cool. And like, how long have we been
- [27:33]
B
able to do this solid phase synthesis? I think from the 50s, Maryfield got the Nobel Prize in chemistry for inventing this. So. Yeah, no, it's definitely something that's been around for a long time.
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A
Oh, in all of human history, it's pretty recent.
- [27:47]
B
Yeah, for sure.
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A
In the 50s. So there's people around today who are 80. Right. And they were born right when this was just first discovered. And sometimes people are saying, what do you mean, Dave? You're going to live to at least 180. Like, there are people alive today. This process didn't exist. And now we're talking about buying a $50 bottle of peptides that's commonly available, and we're making millions of pounds of stuff with a process like that in one lifetime. And that's why if you look at adding 80 years to your life, a lot happens in 80 years.
- [28:22]
B
Yeah, for sure. No, definitely.
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A
Okay. Which peptides do you use?
- [28:27]
B
Yeah, I guess it depends on sort of the day of the week. I mean, I get asked that question a lot. I mean, I speak at a lot of conferences. I talk to a lot of doctors primarily. And that's always, that's always the big question when I get off stage is, hey, here's what I'm doing. What are you doing? And I think one of the most popular stacks, we, you know, we. Here's the Wolverine Stack with the BBC and Thymus and beta 4 combo is really popular. I find that if I'm exercising really hard and I'm sore, you know, that soreness will go away, that repair will happen a lot quicker, the recovery will happen a lot quicker and allow me to hit those workouts a lot better. And so that's a. It's generally speaking on that combination. You know, I suggest to people to take it if they're repairing an injury, you know, that sore elbow. You know, I'm finding my peers, not myself, are very involved in pickleball. And so there's a lot of knee, elbow and ankle injuries. And so it's a great peptide option there for repair. I'm a big fan of the growth hormone socratagogues. I mean, that's where professionally I started some of my chemistry background.
- [29:36]
A
IPamorelin and things
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B
CJC with and without DAC, which is a whole nother topic I find funny. Samorelin, they're all derived from your actual endogenous growth hormone releasing hormone. It's a really, really interesting part of pharmacology in our bodies, and it's something that is known to decline with age. And really it's that signaling mechanism that the peptides provide. So you're not really replacing the compounds as much as you're just kind of knocking on the door a little harder.
- [30:09]
A
It makes a lot of sense. Now, one of the things I've noticed in our concierge VIP medicine clients at Unlimited Life is that there's a lot of genetic variants with people. And some people have good IGF one, some people have good growth hormones, some don't. But the responsiveness to peptides is probably somewhat genetic and somewhat environmental. And I know Brian Johnson recently talked about how he used CJC and it had a whole bunch of negative effects. He thinks. I mean, it wasn't the only variable he changed. Well, the phase of the moon is a variable, you can't control that. Like, there's all kinds of stuff. But we'll say it had a negative effect on him. But I've seen lots of people, in fact, way more than that, who actually had really beneficial effects without destroying of sleep and insulin sensitivity and all the other stuff. So how do people know?
- [31:02]
B
Yeah, well, I think I've seen a few services that are now starting up where you're able to do some genetic testing that'll give you some ideas of how you're going to react, react to certain medications, especially peptides. And so you'll see that becoming more and more popular. I definitely hear companies starting up and I've talked to a lot of companies saying, hey, would you like to be involved? Because obviously there's some crossover. I've talked to one of the guys privately behind one of these companies and he said, hey, my grandmother had Alzheimer's and she wasn't responding well. And when we looked at her genetics, we realized, wow, she's going to respond very well to Dihexa, an oral cognitive enhancing peptide. And sure enough, you know, she went from being pretty, pretty unfunctional, just speaking again, you know, in a period of a few weeks, all based on those kind of genetic testings for personalized medicine that you're discussing. So it's, I think there's a lot to learn in that area. I'm really interested in how the immune system reacts in this case. You know, we see a decline in our immune system and we have peptides for helping with the immune system as well. And so, you know, it's really exciting how we can tie all these things together. And I think, I mean, obviously all the computing power and data centers and AI stuff that's going on, we're able to make some of those correlations that maybe we might not have seen as easily in the past.
- [32:22]
A
For the immune stuff, you're talking about
- [32:24]
B
LL37 or I am LL37, I like for sort of its antibiotic capabilities. But one of my favorites is Thymosin Alpha 1, coming from the thymus gland. It's an endogenous peptide and it has some really. It's an approved drug in 30 countries outside of the U.S. u.S. So it's been full. You know, the WHO has a, a common name for it. I mean, it's, it's globally really well known.
- [32:51]
A
We should, we should restrict Americans access to, to that. It might compete with our pharmaceutical overlords.
- [32:58]
B
Right, right.
- [32:59]
A
It's terrible.
- [33:00]
B
Yeah. So amazing compound and. Yeah, no, it's, it's, it Is one of my favorites.
- [33:07]
A
Okay. It feels like the thymus gland doesn't get enough love.
- [33:12]
B
No, for sure.
- [33:12]
A
It's like, does anyone remember that from 8th grade biology? Like, even where it is. No, it's.
- [33:19]
B
Yeah.
- [33:20]
A
And it does some immune thing. The problem is it's gone by the time you're what, 25?
- [33:24]
B
Yeah. Your mid-20s.
- [33:26]
A
Yeah.
- [33:26]
B
I think involution is the only word that I think it applies to the thymus gland and nothing else.
- [33:31]
A
Yeah. And if you can regrow that. And over the years, there's been a few protocols, some that work. Metformin and growth hormone.
- [33:37]
B
Right.
- [33:38]
A
That was kind of tightly controlled. There is evidence you can do it. Or you could take thymic protein, which was an oral product that's been available for 30 years that makes you not get sick. If you're in cold season or now you can inject tiny fragments of it. And ideally, we're just going to figure out how to make your body regrow and maintain the thymus of a 22 year old. And have that for your entire life.
- [34:01]
B
Yeah, no, it's an amazing area. I love watching the trials with the regrowth growth. And the thymic peptides are pretty available, so it's nice to have access to those to supplement that as well.
- [34:12]
A
And so that's a major part of the longevity movement that could come. Well, all right, fine. I'll just do my thymic protein injection, thymosin alpha every day or every few days and recycle on and off and do that till I'm 180. I'm okay with that.
- [34:28]
B
Yeah. No, you definitely see a decline in the immune system as we're aging. And so I think these are a great start down the path of actually restoring some of the. The ability of your immune system to cope with the world we're in.
- [34:42]
A
Which peptide is most overhyped?
- [34:45]
B
Ooh, that's a good question. I'll tell you what, I think I would say the one that's most over hype is Follistatin. We hear about Follistatin, the peptide being there, not the gene therapy. But I hear a lot about Follistatin. It's a myostat inhibitor. Everyone's gonna become huge. A lot of the stuff we're talking about today, definitely the bodybuilding and gym community was a little more on the cutting edge of experimenting with them. And so we always hear Follistatin being out there. And I did it. And everyone's like, what were your results? They were awesome. Well, what changed? Maybe nothing. I'm not sure. So I definitely think a lot of hype and not a lot of evidence.
- [35:28]
A
And the Follistatin gene therapy definitely moves the needle, but that's like injecting Follistatin every four hours for a year. So the dose there, I've noticed a huge difference from that in our longevity clients. Many of them have had access to the therapy. We get the cutting edge stuff that most people have access to. Yeah, no, it's exciting stuff and I've seen a few formulations. In fact, there were some guys on the show talking about it that had a molecule to extend Follistatin peptides up to 19 days.
- [35:59]
B
Oh yeah, it was albumin attached to it.
- [36:01]
A
Yeah. Right. Yeah. So there's some exciting innovations coming out here. But just injecting Follistatin by itself, the half is so small right in the body that without some, some kind of time release or equivalent that makes us stick around, I don't think anything's right.
- [36:14]
B
Yeah, it all goes back to bioavailability. Can we kind of started the conversation with.
- [36:19]
A
And are there any others out there that you think, man, this is like, is not a good idea?
- [36:25]
B
That's a good question. I think that. I think we see a lot of them. I see a lot more reference to bioregulators right now. There's an interest and I think a lot of that's because it was sort, you know, the, it was, they're all Russian based and so they were sort of secretive and there's a stronger interest now. But when I look through personally through some of the Russian literature and translated, I don't, I don't personally see that you're getting quite the, the advantage of the products we're currently using. I think it's more of an interest because of. Yeah, they were just not available. So they weren't things people experienced.
- [37:04]
A
I, I wrote about the bioregulators in Superhuman, my longevity book, and I think it's eight years old now because I've been for a long time and sometimes you really feel them and sometimes you don't. And yeah, you know, the, the ones that I've had access to are from Russia. This is going back and I think they were efficacious. I like there really was a noticeable change and it wasn't like overnight. Some of the, the peptides you can get like the ones you have now, you feel that same day pretty quick. PT141.
- [37:34]
B
Right.
- [37:35]
A
Which is when it raises libido dramatically. If, if you inject that, you are going to know that day. Right, right, right. And if you were to take the Russian bioregulator equivalent, it was like testolutin or something.
- [37:45]
B
Right.
- [37:46]
A
It's going to take a week or two to build up, but then you're like, oh, hey, like there is something going on there. So there's like a gentleness to it.
- [37:53]
B
Sure.
- [37:54]
A
But I just think anytime, anytime there's suppressed research in the US We've wised up. Like, I think Covid was very helpful for society because you're like, oh, my God, you mean big bad companies lie sometimes? Yeah, actually they do. And so that means that if they're saying you're not allowed to look at this, either they're making money or they think you're stupid. Right. Because you're allowed to look at it. And they can just say, we don't think it's real. Here's why it's not real. And then we have this weird thing called discourse in science. But when they say we will ban your access to it, that probably means it works.
- [38:27]
B
Yeah. No. Even during COVID I was able to get some published studies out of China using Thymosin Alpha 1 and larger doses in IV and doctors you and I talked. Talked about a little earlier that had access to it. We're seeing really good results in a rapid time frame. So, you know, coming as a scientist, I mean, half of, half of, you know, half of what we work on is, Is sharing our knowledge.
- [38:53]
A
So I, I think there's, there's something to the Russian stuff, but it could be probably just because you're, you know, tell me I can't have it. I want it.
- [38:59]
B
Right. Well, I always wonder too, if certain people are maybe deficient in some of those components that. So you're seeing some better results and buildup as well. Yeah.
- [39:08]
A
We're at the very beginning of being able to predict what, you know, what peptides someone should take. And we're pretty far along. If you give me someone's genetics and their microbiome status, this is what we're doing with our clients these days, we can tell you what pharmaceuticals are going to work and not work. Right, right. And. But you have to have both.
- [39:28]
B
Right.
- [39:28]
A
And you al. It helps if you also know their levels of all the things you want to change. Like, oh, you're deficient in this and your guts this way. And so a drug that would be an obvious drug to a normal doc. Well, that can't work in this person, so you don't do it.
- [39:39]
B
Right.
- [39:40]
A
And then you see other Weird pathways. Like we had a guy where he sudden onset ed, right. And we hadn't had a problem before, it just came one week. So there's a stack of things you can give someone and, and we know all of them. So we give him even PT141, he's nothing. And because you know, it felt a little bit more desire. But like, no, like that's insane, you know, Cialis, Viagra, all this stuff, nothing. So because of modern science, like, okay, well let's look at some genetic pathways and let's look at his gut bacteria. And sure as hell he had one pathogenic species that completely turns off nitric oxide's ability to do anything. So he hit him with all the peptides, nothing thing. But we gave him a narrow band antibiotic to kill the one species that was blocking nitric oxide from taking action. And then two days later he's back in business. So it's an example of that peptide didn't work for me. No. You had a specific type of bacteria in your gut that was causing the problem. So you have to have the whole picture and AI is going to get better and better at that. But right now that's a human scientific thing and some of the most fun work I'm doing today because of that. So anytime someone says it doesn't work, you're like, well, it doesn't work on your genetics and your environment and your gut bacteria right now. Right. And it doesn't mean it won't work on that same person a week later if something else changes. And this is why it's frustrating. So I would say if you have a goal, you should probably do the simple stuff like get more zinc if that's going to help your goal. Right, right. And then use peptides.
- [41:18]
B
No, it's pretty amazing. I mean I've definitely working at the pharmacies. We would hear about some of the ED oral drugs not working. And it was usually nitric oxide related. It wasn't the drug itself.
- [41:31]
A
It's funny because you have genetics around Nos 1, Nos 2, Nos 3, that can be part of it. But then when those are okay, like what is up? And it's a complex thing, but normally you give someone a bunch of nitric oxide donors and these work and that's the whole basis of the ED drugs. So I just want people who are saying, well I tried it and it didn't work.
- [41:52]
B
Work.
- [41:52]
A
It doesn't mean it doesn't work for most people. It just means just like pharmaceuticals, you know, that one didn't work. For you, it worked for your buddy and vice versa. We're still figuring out.
- [42:00]
B
Yeah, no, definitely 100%.
- [42:05]
A
What are some of the worst side effects people could get from peptides if they don't?
- [42:09]
B
Yeah. So when I looked at some of the published trials, the most common thing you'll see is site injection issues. Itchiness, redness, that's the most common. And a lot of times I don't see correlations or rhyme or reason. Someone might do 20 injections and the 21st one causes a bit of a reaction and maybe the 22nd one's fine. On the more extreme end, some of the clinical trial data that is published shows that your body can make some antibodies to them. Sometimes that's inconsequential and sometimes that can end up affecting the immune system. Pretty rare, but there's nothing that's perfect. Peptides included. But generally speaking, with peptides, we see far less side effects than we do with regular small molecule drugs.
- [42:57]
A
I've seen definitely nausea, headaches, brain fog, sleep disturbance, sudden drops in blood pressure and sweating as things that can happen if it's not compatible with you. You take at the wrong time of day or you stoke. Yeah.
- [43:12]
B
And so generally speaking, like with the growth hormones to cryogues, people say, oh, I'm enjoying sleep, I'm getting much better sleep. I'm amazed. And then there's the, you know, 1% of patients who are like, I got insomnia all of a sudden, wide awake. And seems like if you switch those patients to AM dosing taken care of. We've also seen patients maybe go back to Sirmorelin, maybe change the, the actual drug that they're taking. And so, yeah, it's, it's a little bit of a. It's the practice of medicine.
- [43:38]
A
Yeah. And it's definitely personal. And so I would just say if you've seen the recent posts from Brian about this stuff in patients, we've seen that most people don't respond that way. And so I kind of like his approach has been, oh, let me take another peptide to see if I can cancel that out. Or you could just switch to a different peptide or one of the things that isn't a peptide that's worth a shout out is MK677 for. For. For raising growth hormone, which is orally active and it's. Was it a gray market something?
- [44:12]
B
Yeah, I guess it's a. Yeah, for sure at this point. MK stands for merk. So is there peptide mimetic? Looks sort of like a peptide, but isn't Actually one.
- [44:21]
A
Yep. And Merc, thanks for putting the plans out there so we could just copy it because you've stolen enough of our money and we're happy to steal it back.
- [44:29]
B
Very popular product for sure, man.
- [44:33]
A
All right, you guys are going to have to like put a bleep over the Merc, but keep the rest of that. Otherwise I'm going to get like, like bitch slapped by these guys. Not that they haven't already. I'm feeling a little annoyed that they took away my Instagram live. So now I'm like, what use is Instagram?
- [44:46]
B
Right.
- [44:46]
A
I'm just going to keep speaking the truth. All right. We talked a little bit about the auto injector that's a part of the service you have, which is really cool.
- [44:56]
B
Yeah.
- [44:57]
A
What about like patches and creams and nasal sprays and.
- [45:00]
B
For sure. I'm always working on all of those things. I mean, I. It's nice to be here and come out and see you because, yeah, I would spend about 90% of my time in the lab.
- [45:11]
A
Cool.
- [45:11]
B
And you know, if you've ever been into many R and D labs, they don't look like anything like the forensics labs on TV with all the cool windows and light and they're usually kind of dark and dingy. So, yeah, I'm working on all those types of things. And so by the time that this interview gets is made available, and we suspect we expect to have some at your conference at the end of May, we have micro needle patches and it's really, really kind of an exciting that I started working in a little over a year ago. And what these are, are, they're clear. In our case we have some round patches with micro needles. And I know we kind of say needle free peptide administration. It's in the sense that the needles are at a couple hundred microns in length. And so when you actually apply them to your skin, maybe on the wrist, on the neck, some areas of thin skin, skin, you are actually going in the skin but you're not feeling. It feels more like it's been described as Velcro or a cat's tongue. So it's something that's. You feel a little like shark skin. Yeah, yeah. It's not smooth, but it's definitely not a needle. What happens is when you get through the skin, you have interstitial fluid and the peptide has been embedded into these natural polymers like hyaluronic acid and they start dissolving and go systemic into the body. So you can actually there's an adhesive behind it, you can actually, it kind of looks like a little round band aid and the next thing you know, over a period of 30 to 60 minutes, you're able to get your dose of BPC in through the body systemic and you haven't done an injection and what. And because of the length of the needles, we're using smaller needles. These are considered cosmetic products and so we're able to sell them direct to consumer and make them available without the telemedicine or prescription description.
- [47:05]
A
That is really cool. So you can have a variety of peptides just going in that way.
- [47:09]
B
Yeah. So we're super, super excited about that. It's a neat area science. It's a neat area of Doug delivery. It's obviously less invasive, really approachable and easy. We actually just got some results back from the analytical lab. So in addition to synthesizing the peptides, we actually are working with a analytical lab that specializes in peptide analysis. We're able to, to make sure all of our quality control, all the label claims are exactly as expected on the products. And so I'm super excited that even our first run that we finished up last week, we were hitting our label claims on the dosing and everything looked perfect, which is you always hope for, but you never know until you know what's the URL where people can go
- [47:50]
A
to learn more about this.
- [47:51]
B
Yeah, so it's the Precision Peptide Company. Okay. They'll obviously be able to see it on, on your social media as well. And so we'll have some coupons and discounts. I think Dave's going to get them a discount on the product.
- [48:03]
A
Yeah. So how to do that? It's precisionpeptidecompany.com yes. Use code Dave to get a discount on these. And you know, the, the whole point here is you really can go to some Chinese random site and you can get a bunch of stuff. And I've, I've seen them with perfectly good, you know, coas and all the, it's fake and, and you just, you don't know and you go into Reddit and there's I think lawsuits right now about people, you know, leaving reviews for their own products, which is illegal on the FTC stuff like you don't do that and all kinds of stuff that it's just shady. And I'm not saying you can't get good stuff. I'm just saying be in a buyer's club and go pay for a third party testing and it might work, it might not. And so I'm not saying you can't do that. But for the vast majority of people listening who, who don't want to invest hundreds of hours and like in just getting into it, doing it this way, where you've made it in the US in a quality controlled lab and everything you're saying is regulated and, and real and that if you put on the label that it's 99.9, it must be because you're accountable.
- [49:07]
B
Yeah, I think it's worth something. No.
- [49:08]
A
And it was precision.
- [49:10]
B
Precisionpeptidecompany.com all right.
- [49:12]
A
Precisionpeptidecompany.Com Code Dave, when people are unwilling to inject or something won't go in that way. There's one delivery method we didn't talk about here in Austin. They call it boofing. Do you know about that one?
- [49:26]
B
Sure. Absolutely.
- [49:27]
A
So rectal use of peptides. People were doing this with Clotho a few years ago. Is that something that most peptides are good for or not?
- [49:36]
B
You'd actually be surprised. I've had a lot of very in depth studies, especially with a couple international clinics on, on peptide suppositories. Okay. We were asked at one of the manufacturing facilities I worked at to formulate cocoa butter based suppositories blended with peptides
- [49:57]
A
like BPC or just any peptide.
- [49:58]
B
Well, so one, one facility was, an international facility was using an anti cancer peptide and using it for treating colon cancer. So kind of a direct delivery of cancer.
- [50:09]
A
Prostate cancer probably too. Yeah.
- [50:10]
B
But yeah, we actually say it's. It's a very valid drug delivery method. I've also done a bunch of work in intranasal delivery systems. A little bit. I haven't formulated any personally, but I definitely work with people who've done peptide eye drops for macular degeneration. That's cool. Yeah. And seen a variety of peptides there. I mean it's kind of wide open. I've looked at some of the. I have a deep eutectic solvent at my lab I haven't got to use yet called the acronym is cage and it's been shown to take insulin across your skin into the bloodstream.
- [50:47]
A
Way better than DMSO or something.
- [50:49]
B
No, this is. So this is, this is choline and geranic acid in a deep eutectic solvent and its properties allow it to cross membranes really well. And so that's so cool. I'm really lucky. I've got. We're working with the University of Alberta. Their pharmacy department has a drug delivery area that's really. They're able to do these studies and so we will have actual data like on skin permeation. So I guarantee these things work. But as a scientist, I like to be able to quantify them and show, you know, analytical proof. And so I'm really lucky to have, you know, the ability to do this stuff.
- [51:25]
A
All right, one more question. I'm like trying to think of all the other weird things people might do. So clearly making a peptide nasal spray, pretty straightforward. Saline, water. Water. But what about just doing a key bump of lyophilized.
- [51:38]
B
Oh, you know, I remember seeing when I first started hearing about PT141 bremelanotide, there was a guy on YouTube from England that said he ordered some from China and he opened the vial and he smelled it and yeah, he got the full effects.
- [51:54]
A
And guys, a key bump if you're not from Austin or something like that is if you were to take an old fashioned car key before they had buttons on them and just got a little tiny amount of powder, I can't imagine what kind of powder that would be.
- [52:07]
B
Right.
- [52:08]
A
And you snorted it. So we're just talking like, like inhaling a super tiny amount into the membrane.
- [52:13]
B
So that is efficacious.
- [52:16]
A
Just straight up. And as lyophilized powder, you don't need
- [52:18]
B
to put water in it. 100. Now, on the, on the other extreme end, I worked on some formulations that included ddm, which is the acronym for or beta dodecyl. Malticide. It's a detergent used in protein chemistry and it's a permeation enhancer. And when mixed with PT141 and an intranasal spray and the right ratios, you can get the exact same effects, milligram per milligram as you would with an injection. Ooh. So it's pretty.
- [52:48]
A
That sounds like a product waiting to happen.
- [52:49]
B
No, for sure. No. I think it's a pretty exciting sort of development I worked on, on, it's inspired. There's a commercially approved product with intranasal valium for treating seizures. That's where I read about and I thought, oh, I wonder how that would work with peptides. And I like PT141 because you don't have to do any lab tests, blood draws or genetic tests to see if it's working. You get kind of a biomarker that pops up literally and you can kind of understand. And so, yeah, it's a great way to look at bioavailability, availability.
- [53:20]
A
That's so fun. I didn't think I was going to act ask about putting peptides in those things. But you're kind of inspiring me to consider with a microgram scale, just kind of snorting something instead of injecting it.
- [53:31]
B
Yeah, it's an option. Depending on the peptide, for sure.
- [53:33]
A
All right, guys, if you want me to do that, leave it in the comments. If I get results, I probably won't do PT141, but I'll try something else and see if I get noticeable results. Because I could see mixing a bun. Oh, God. That's the other question. Okay, we have a little bit of time for this. All right. I was saying I could see mixing a bunch of powders together so that, you know, when I'm traveling, I just have to, like, get to just do a little line of, like, all my peptides.
- [53:58]
B
Right. That's interesting.
- [54:01]
A
And I sound like I'm a heavy drug user. I've actually. Okay, this. I would say I've never used cocaine once. I did once use a medical nasal spray with cocaine in it when I had a sprained back. One spray. Other than that, I have never touched the stuff. So, like this, you know, I'm not a. I'm not saying I don't use psychedelics, but that's not my. Not my side of things. So here's the question. If you have two or three peptides, can you mix them in one vial and store it?
- [54:33]
B
Yeah. So the answer is most likely. And the reason I say most likely is at the pharmacies where we were doing compounding, cjc, apa, Marlin combination forever. Even when I first started, we see the Glow and CLO blends, HPLCs make them look like they're fine. I have seen really random combinations. I had someone send me an image on their. Their video rather of retatrutide and NAD being combined. And as they're combined in the syringe, the crystals are forming and they're falling out.
- [55:03]
A
Precipitation or cross.
- [55:05]
B
And with nad, you have a positive charge. You know, there's always talk about ghk, and so there's really no specific answer. It's going to depend on those combinations. But generally speaking, I would say you're more likely to find that things are compatible. From the. The kind of general formulary that we're seeing talked about on Reddit, I'm sure that there's always some exemptions to the rules. The combinations I'm not as concerned about, I think maybe some of the stability over time and temperature, I think those are probably things that I plan on pursuing more in my lab.
- [55:41]
A
Sounds like there isn't a lot of science about all the combinations. Some of the longevity docs I work with, like, you're insane to mix them up because they're going to cross link, you know what they're going to happen, inject them differently. But I inject a lot of peptides.
- [55:54]
B
Yeah.
- [55:54]
A
I go through cycles I haven't injected in like a week or two. But then I have a bunch of the auto injectors, the same exact one that you're using. So I'm like. And just going down. But it'd be nice to just mix them all up in like the one auto injector.
- [56:08]
B
Sure. And really, I mean, I think for your audience, the answer is, you know, let, let some of the pharmacies and let's labs go through those, go through those assays and kind of figure out what will work and what won't. But hey, look, when you walk, when you see solids falling out of your, you know, solution, your syringe, you've kind of already done that experiment in that case.
- [56:26]
A
That's a fair point, I guess. If they don't, if they precipitate, you know, if they cross link, so they're unavailable. That's the.
- [56:31]
B
Yeah. So look, having done chemistry and talking about all the solid phase synthesis, I subjected peptides to some extreme pressures, extreme temperatures, extreme chemicals, extreme pHs, and they were always pretty. I mean, that's part of the manufacturing process. I mean, we used high pressure chromatography to separate out byproducts.
- [56:52]
A
And so even like the, the bright light exposure thing, you think that's over?
- [56:56]
B
I think it depends on the peptide again. I mean, if you look at GHK copper, super stable. It's used in tons of cosmetics. Really, it's a really beautiful compound. It's bright, bright metallic blue.
- [57:09]
A
So I keep all mine in the fridge and try and keep them dark, but maybe when I travel, I don't need to refrigerate the reconstituted ones.
- [57:14]
B
Yeah, so there's actually travel cases, some cooler travel cases. I think Case Tides is the website.
- [57:19]
A
Do I need it though?
- [57:22]
B
I would rather generally keep most things in the fridge than not. Yeah, it's. I, I see things like, oh God, I left it out overnight, it's ruined. You know, maybe you had a single percentage of degradation or something.
- [57:34]
A
That seems more likely. If you leave it out all day in the sunlight, it's probably ruined.
- [57:37]
B
Yeah. Don't put it in the trunk of your car in Texas.
- [57:40]
A
Fair point. All right. Thank you for clearing that. I've been meaning to find someone who would actually know the answer versus you know, I've seen it this way, I've seen it that way way. So that. That was. That was cool. Those are three questions that I don't think anyone's probably asked on a on a podcast that I've heard anyway, so really, really appreciate your work. And again, it's precisionpeptidecompany.com Yep. And the code is Dave. And you guys, you see what it's like. You get the real professionals out there who are doing this behind the scenes. You probably haven't heard of Justin, but, well, now you have. So I appreciate it.
- [58:12]
B
Awesome. Thanks so much.
- [58:14]
A
See you next time on the Human Upgrade Podcast.
- [58:23]
B
A Human Upgrade, formerly Bulletproof Radio, was created and is hosted by Dave Asprey. The information contained in this podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended for the purposes of diagnosing, treating, curing, or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider carefully, read all labels and heed all directions and cautions that accompany the products. Information found or received through the podcast should not be used in place of a consultation or advice from a healthcare provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem or should you have any healthcare questions, please promptly call or see your healthcare provider. This podcast, including Dave Asprey and the producers, disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein. Opinions of guests are their own and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein. This podcast is owned by Bulletproof Media.