The $18 Million Pills Nobody Can Explain | Igniton : 1510

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Human Upgrade: Biohacking for Longevity & Performance
Host: Dave Asprey
Episode: The $18 Million Pills Nobody Can Explain | Igniton : 1510
Date: July 30, 2026
Guest: Ashley Grace, Executive at Ignaton

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the breakthrough supplement line, Ignaton—touted as “$18 million pills nobody can explain”—with a focus on the fascinating intersection of quantum physics, subatomic particles, and human consciousness. Dave Asprey and guest Ashley Grace trace Ignaton’s origins (and its inventor Yirka Rysavy’s journey), delve into the science, share clinical results, and candidly discuss both the spectacular and mysterious efficacy that users—including themselves—are reporting. The discussion is rich with stories about intuition, sleep enhancement, consciousness upgrades, and the skepticism such paradigm-shifting claims attract.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origin Story: Meet Ignaton and Its Inventor

Timestamps: 04:00–08:45

• Dave recounts how he was introduced to Yirka Rysavy’s secretive $18 million lab, featuring “a semiconductor equipment with silicon wafers, a vacuum that makes a space level of almost perfect vacuum, and high energy lasers…”
• Yirka claims discovery of a new subatomic particle, dubbed the ‘ignaton,’ inspired by research at CERN.
• Supposedly, putting these particles in supplements led to significant improvements in cognitive function and longevity (with supporting data from Yirka’s employees).

Memorable Quote:

“He says, ‘Well, we discovered a particle. It’s a subatomic particle, like a neutron or something, but no one knows about it. And it came out of research at CERN.’” — Dave Asprey [03:56]

2. How Ignaton Supposedly Works: Quantum Technology and Human Performance

Timestamps: 08:46–16:34

• Ashley Grace explains Ignaton as “subatomic quasi-particles created on the surface of the sun… that nuclear reaction creates the ignatons and the ignaton energy, which travels through space and surrounds us all right here, right now.” [08:53]
• Dave draws parallels to neutrinos and describes ignatons as invisible, abundant, and newly measurable thanks to advanced technology.

Memorable Quote:

“Ignatons are like… neutrino particles… a huge number of them. We can’t see them, but somehow we can attract them. And he found a small team of researchers who were measuring them.” — Dave Asprey [09:27]

3. The Science (and Mystery) Behind Ignaton Supplements

Timestamps: 16:17–18:18

• Ingredients are placed in vacuum chambers, subjected to cold plasma and lasers, to “create a nuclear reaction… that creates the ignaton energy… [which] binds geometrically to the hydrogen proton.”
• Studies cited include 83% increase in mental performance, 51% increase in attention, and significant reductions in inflammation markers (IL6, CRP) after use.

Memorable Quote:

“We know that what we don’t really know is why. And the hypothesis as to why is because of this excited hydrogen…” — Ashley Grace [17:34]

4. Clinical Effects and User Experiences

Timestamps: 18:18–28:46

• Dave and Ashley attest to a direct and tangible “felt sense” of heightened intuition, clarity, and performance—often in ways difficult to quantify by traditional science.
• Reports include dramatic sleep improvements; the Ignaton sleep formula is said to deliver a 25% increase in REM sleep in two weeks (confirmed by Oura rings and Fitbits).

Memorable Quotes:

“When I first started taking Ignaton, I was like, wait, there’s a felt sense here. Like something is shifting in this. And then it just became easier to, sort of, reach out—and the answer is just more easily available.” — Dave Asprey [18:18]

“You can just check on your Oura ring or your Fitbit or Apple Watch… People are talking about the improved dreams they’re having.” — Ashley Grace [00:05 & 32:23]

• REM sleep anecdote: “We have a couple different influencers... up two hours for one lady... That’s more than a lot of people even get at all.” — Ashley Grace [34:01]

5. Consciousness, Intuition, and "Superpowers"

Timestamps: 34:52–44:35

• Both Dave and Ashley describe increased emotional regulation and even “extra” intuitive or energetic abilities (referencing yogic siddhis).
• Users report moments of instantaneous self-awareness, better memory, and a more peaceful response to triggers, paralleling effects seen in advanced meditators.

Notable Exchange:

“I almost came out of my body and I heard a voice say… now’s your chance. How do you want to respond?” — Ashley Grace [35:32]
“There are abilities that emerge… called the yogic siddhis… some of that stuff does happen.” — Dave Asprey [36:55]

6. Beyond Supplements: Future Quantum Health Tech

Timestamps: 22:38–28:46

• Ignaton is developing field-based tech (e.g., “holoton ignaton therapy chair”), integrating with devices once used by NASA, aiming to increase cellular “coherence.”
• Water molecules charged with ignatons show more energetic, symmetrical structures in lab imaging.

7. Addressing Skepticism: Quantum Washing, Data, & Placebo

Timestamps: 29:04–31:32, 55:58–57:10

• Dave and Ashley acknowledge the “quantum washing” trend in wellness and aim to validate claims through published peer-reviewed studies and user data.
• Return rates are extremely low; the rare non-responders tend to exhibit blocked or negative energy ("consciousness scale under 200").

Memorable Quote:

“It doesn’t mean something is real if you can’t measure it. It means you may just not have the right measuring tape.” — Dave Asprey [44:41]

8. Comparing Energy Medicine: Muscle Testing, Healing Modalities, & Coherence

Timestamps: 44:35–55:53

• Dave draws on his experience with muscle testing and modern research (Dean Radin, David Hawkins) showing that intuitive and healing abilities flourish with higher internal coherence and consciousness, paralleling Ignaton’s effects.

Quote:

“If you look at muscle testing, David says… If your consciousness is below 200, you can’t do it… Because they’re pretty much stuck in trauma.” — Dave Asprey [54:24]

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Notable Quotes & Moments (With Timestamps)

• “He says, ‘We discovered a particle… a subatomic particle, like a neutron or something, but no one knows about it. And it came out of research at CERN.’” — Dave Asprey [03:56]
• “Ignatons are subatomic quasi particles… created on the surface of the sun… nuclear reaction… creates the ignatons and the ignaton energy.” — Ashley Grace [08:53]
• “The data was 83% increase in mental quality of performance, a 51% increase in attention, 28% in short term memory…” — Ashley Grace [14:03]
• “It was four times better.” — Ashley Grace [14:43]
• “We’re trying to create an environment that’s as similar to the surface of the sun as we can… inside of that chamber, we put supplement ingredients… then we shoot the lasers through… creating a nuclear reaction… that creates the ignaton energy.” — Ashley Grace [16:17]
• “I kind of time slowed down and I almost came out of my body and I heard a voice say… now’s your chance.” — Ashley Grace [35:35]
• “There are abilities that… emerge. They’re called the yogic siddhis. Have you heard of these?” — Dave Asprey [37:11]
• “I think ignaton is moving people’s coherence, as you put it, which is what turns on these abilities.” — Dave Asprey [47:11]
• “People who are more regulated or more coherent can do it and people who are not regulated and not coherent can’t.” — Dave Asprey [51:23]
• “We want… to give people confidence they can try the product [money-back guarantee]… very few people take advantage of that.” — Ashley Grace [56:31]
• “If it stops working, I’ll stop taking it. I’ll stop telling people about it. But after a couple years on it…” — Dave Asprey [59:18]
• “Raising your own vibration is what Ignaton helps you do.” — Ashley Grace [61:05]

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Important Timestamps

• 04:00 – Introduction to Ignaton and the “$18 million lab”
• 08:46 – Ignaton as subatomic quasi-particles; the origin story
• 14:03–14:43 – Clinical data comparison: Ignaton-charged vs. regular formulas
• 16:17 – Detailed manufacturing process: emulating the sun
• 32:23–34:01 – Sleep formula and REM increase testimonials
• 35:32–36:38 – Ashley’s personal consciousness upgrade story
• 41:00–42:09 – Accumulating ignatons and steady consciousness shift
• 47:11 – Energy healing anecdotes and parallels to ignaton
• 55:58–57:10 – Returns, money-back guarantee, and who it might not work for
• 59:29–61:12 – Dave’s philosophy: “I only do things that work”; changing self to change the world

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Takeaways

• Ignaton is a novel supplement line that claims to harness newly discovered subatomic particles (“ignatons”) to multiply the effects of existing supplements and raise consciousness.
• Clinical data (albeit limited in the public domain) is cited for large performance and longevity gains; many users, including Dave, report hard-to-quantify but tangible cognitive upgrades and unusual clarity or intuition.
• The creation process is elaborate and advanced: emulating sun surface conditions, lasers, and cold plasma.
• Skepticism is welcomed by both Dave and Ashley—users are encouraged to trust their own experience, bolstered by transparent consumer feedback and a generous money-back guarantee.
• The future vision is far beyond supplements, aiming for field-based technologies to enhance coherence and human potential on a massive scale.

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Conclusion

This episode lives up to its sci-fi billing, blurring the lines between advanced wellness, quantum physics, and mystical consciousness. Whether you leave convinced or skeptical, you’ll walk away intrigued by the bold new frontiers in biohacking.

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Links:

• Ignaton (discount code: DAVE)
• Ashley Grace on LinkedIn

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For more details, listen to the full episode or visit the Human Upgrade Archives.

Transcript

[Dave Asprey]

I've been hacking my sleep for years because I used to be a terrible sleeper. You have to sleep for it's so powerful.

[Ashley Grace]

It's the testing that we've done on that one shows a 25% increase in REM sleep in two weeks. You don't have to go get a blood test to measure this. You can just check on your Oura ring or your Fitbit or Apple watch, whatever device you may have, and you'll see your REM sleep increase. People are talking about the improved dreams that they're having. Kid you not Dave. I can Time slowed down and I almost came out of my body. I heard a voice say. And I was. I interpreted it to be my voice saying, now is your chance.

[Dave Asprey]

You're listening to the human upgrade with Dave Asprey. Why won't your stress budge no matter what you do? You're doing the work, the cold plunge, the breath work, the supplements. And your nervous system is still running hot. Here's the problem. Every recovery tool you use only works when your body believes the threat is over. And if your nervous system never gets that signal, it stays in survival mode, regardless of what you stack on top of it. The direct line to that signal runs through your vagus nerve. When you stimulate it, your parasympathetic nervous system activates. Your body shifts out of fight or flight and into the state where real recovery happens. Zenbud is the tool I reach for to make that shift happen. It sits on your ears like a headset and uses focused ultrasound to reach your vagus nerve directly. Just five minutes daily is all you need. In clinical studies, participants experienced significant improvements across stress, mood and sleep after just four weeks of use. Many people notice it in their first session. Check it out at Zenbud Health and use code D Dave15 at checkout for a discount. Your biohacks are only as good as your nervous system's ability to recover. This is the missing piece. You're losing hair on your head and collagen in your skin right now, even though you probably can't see it yet. That process speeds up as you age, and it doesn't reverse on its own. But you can intervene at the cellular level. Studies show that specific wavelengths of red and near infrared light will stimulate your hair follicles, and that does support collagen production. Irestore has been making red light therapy devices that actually work for over two decades. And with their summer savings event, it's the perfect time to upgrade your hair and skincare. The Irestore elite is their most Advanced laser hair growth system using 300 lasers and 200 LEDs, which helps you regrow thicker, healthier hair in about three months. And it is really easy to use. You can wear it while you're working, while you're reading or unwinding at night. And the illumina face mask. 360 medical grade LEDs can turn red, infrared or even blue light at the same time to target all of your different skin concerns. Just 10 minutes a few times a week gives you brighter, smoother and healthier looking skin. I've been using the Irestore Elite and the Illumina face mask while I work at home, but not on video. And they fit into my normal routine with no extra time cost. I really like it because I don't lose any time when I use it. Irestore is so confident you'll love their products that they give you a 12 month money back guarantee. That's because it actually works. You will see more hair. Irestore is kicking off their summer savings event with some huge discounts on their red light therapy devices. You can save on customer favorites like the Irestore Elite helmet and the Illumina face mask. Just head to irestore.com, use code Dave to take advantage of the sale. That's [e-mail] Please support the show and tell them we sent you. Give your hair and skin the upgrade they deserve so you can feel confident and refreshed. This episode is going to sound like something straight out of science fiction, because it kind of is. A few years ago I was recording a special for Gaia TV and it was on biohacking and longevity, you know, the normal stuff. And then Jurka, the CEO of Gaia, says in a kind of mysterious way, and Yerka is just a really spiritual guy and a just stunningly successful entrepreneur and very humble. He says, you want to come see my $18 million laboratory? I'm like, well, but of course. So we're there in Colorado and we go on the Gaia campus and there's this relatively large lab and there's a semiconductor equipment with silicon wafers. There's a vacuum that makes a space level of almost perfect vacuum. There's high energy lasers. I'm like, what is going on here? And he says, well, we discovered a particle. It's a subatomic particle, like a neutron or something, but no one knows about it. And it came out of research at cern.

[Ashley Grace]

That got your attention.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah. And. And if you've ever seen a Gaia, Gaia is a pretty spiritual network. And Yerka has been CEO of that for a long time. He's no longer CEO. I think he's chairman now because he's now CEO of Ignaton. And so I'm like, okay, I'm kind of convinced because if you believe in something enough to spend $18 million or replicate something that happened in Switzerland, all right, there's something going on here. And then he shows me the data about longevity and cognitive function. At the time was 70, and he's lengthened his telomeres, he's done all these incredible things. And he says, yeah, I, I also experiment on my employees. Okay, he didn't really say that. He said, I offer my employees the opportunity to try this as long as they'll. They'll do their data. And most employees had. And he showed me the data from employees and cognitive function, longevity, and just stunning results. And like, what do you mean subatomic particle? Would you have fairy dust here? He says, no, these are kind of like particles of light, but they're not light, they're smaller. When you meditate, they likely accumulate. So I just thought, well, what would happen if we put these particles into supplements that go into certain places in the body? And well, the data was stunning. But the thing that really convinced me was Valeria, who's this Russian scientist and if you ever have like talked with a real Russian scientist and they're a little bit Russian, a little skeptical, she goes, I don't believe any of this fairy stuff, this woo stuff. She said. But I took the supplement and said, after two months I just started knowing things the same way. Jurka says now I believe she got downloads. Downloads. That's right. And, and that's a big testament. We have someone who's really skeptical. And she was clearly skeptical. She says, I know high energy lasers and all the stuff she knows. And she was a convert. And I do a lot of advanced, we'll call it spiritual neuroscience and shamanic practice and meditating in caves. And so I've got a sense for those things. And so Jurka gave me, before anyone could buy it, a few bottles and I took it. I'm like, you know what? Something is sharper. This is noticeable. So he's got numbers to back. It felt sense to back it. And so I'm like, when can I get this? And I was begging Jurka, I'm like, hey man, can you send me another bottle? And he's like, ah, come and visit me in Colorado. And it was like, I got to get my ignaton. And Guys, this is all completely true. So for probably a couple years, I was usually on Ignaton unless I ran out. And then I'm like, hey. And he'd like, send me some. It was like my Ignaton dealer.

[Ashley Grace]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

And at the biohacking conference right before this recent one, the beyond biohacking, he told the story the first time he was in a public appearance in 20 something years since like the 90s. And we went through the story and. And a lot of people are taking Ignaton now. And it's a line of supplements that just works differently than anything I've ever seen. So we're going to talk about that on our guest today or on our episode today, because our guest is Ashley Grace, who is an executive working with Yerka on making Ignaton happen. And our connection there is that Ashley was with a company called Charlotte's Web. And if you are a long, long, long time listener, back in the day, I interviewed one of the founders of Charlotte's Web because this was the first CBD brand and actually including thc, at least for some of the blends, that was healing autistic kids. So there were about 10,000 families who moved to Colorado where it was legal so they could treat their kids with this compound that was illegal federally but allowed. And it was having profound effects. So it was really cool to years later to be able to invite Ashley over to the studio at my home and to be able to talk about Ignaton. So that's how we got here. Ashley, welcome.

[Ashley Grace]

Thank you very much. Small world.

[Dave Asprey]

Very small world. How was my description of ignaton's? What did I miss?

[Ashley Grace]

You nailed it right on the dot. Yerik is a very private individual. That's why he's not here doing the show with you directly. So I'm here instead. But thank you for having me. Ignatons are subatomic quasi particles. And they come. They're created on the surface of the sun by interactions between the plasma around the sun and the photons that the sun emits. And that nuclear reaction that occurs creates the ignatons and the ignaton energy, which travels through space and surrounds us all right here, right now.

[Dave Asprey]

If people are into advanced physics, there's neutrino particles and they were theorized to exist, but we couldn't really prove it. So we built these giant neutrino detectors. And in reality, there's an almost infinite number trillions and kabillions and quad kabillions. I have no idea what number Google. Billions of these things streaming through the earth, but they're so Tiny that they very rarely collide with any other atomic particles to provide evidence. So they finally built neutrino detectors to say, okay, the things that math says exist and actually do exist. And ignatons are like those in that there's a huge number of them. We can't see them, but somehow we can attract them. And he found a small team of researchers who were measuring them. And the weird thing is, who would think to go from subatomic particles to consciousness or to supplements? Only someone who's meditated for many, many years and maybe got his own downloads. So it was quite the intuitive leap, backed by a big check to prove it.

[Ashley Grace]

Yes.

[Dave Asprey]

What made you join?

[Ashley Grace]

Well, after Charlotte's Web, you know, I became kind of addicted to helping people.

[Dave Asprey]

You know, Are you allowed to say Charlotte's Web and addicted to the same?

[Ashley Grace]

I don't know. That's a good question. I just did though, didn't I? I guess they'll like that. From a plug standpoint, it really. When you start helping people as you have been doing in your life as well, it's very powerful. Right? And so Charlotte's Web gave me my first taste of that in from an employment standpoint and really focusing my energy from a career. So afterwards, I've been consulting in various areas of health and wellness and functional mushrooms and all kinds of different things. I was kind of getting bored with that because I like being part of a team and building something. As a consultant, you only go very, very shallow across a lot of customers. And I like going deep and building out a, you know, a sustainable business. I saw what some, you know, job posting. I wasn't even looking for a job. It's weird how the universe works. This job posting comes across my. My email somehow or some. Something I can't even remember. But it just, I got my attention because of what you're talking about. Sounded like science fiction, like what's. What's going on with these things called ignatons. But my great grandfather passed away from Alzheimer's and I had a front row seat to that. And, you know, so when I made the connection between. I saw the data, the connection between ignatons and brain health. I thought, you know, this is something I'd really like to be a part of. And I took a flyer and sent a application in and heard from Yeriki, calls me. I don't even know who he is. He calls me on my phone, says, this is Yerka. Can you come in? I'm like, sure, I'd love to meet you. I can come you know, when. Later this week. Whatever works for you. He goes, how about now? And I said, okay, how about tomorrow? I need to. I need to get a little bit together here. But so I went in real quickly. We met, he showed me the data, I was blown away. And within a week, I was working for him. Wow.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah.

[Ashley Grace]

What a.

[Dave Asprey]

He's a fantastic human being. Just. Just a very. Say, they don't make him like that.

[Ashley Grace]

The.

[Dave Asprey]

The amount of humility along with dramatic success, like. Like he was one of the guys behind Corporate Express that was acquired by. Was it Office Depot?

[Ashley Grace]

Yeah, it was like a $4.7 billion transaction.

[Dave Asprey]

It was Office Depot and that was Staples. Staples. I always confused those Staples now, so apologies. Yeah, staples. Yeah. I always think it's one, then I switch to the other, and then I'm wrong. But, you know, 4.3 billion. And that wasn't his only exit. So he's a guy who can do anything he wants. And he's been working for 18 years, bringing consciousness stuff out with Gaia. And then he moves to Ignaton. I'm like, that's also a signal to me because literally Joer could do whatever he wants, and he does, and this is what he wants.

[Ashley Grace]

A very humble guy too, you know, Lives in a cabin that he built

[Dave Asprey]

and like almost 50 years ago, he built it by hand. Yeah, I still live there.

[Ashley Grace]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

And I guess without running water still.

[Ashley Grace]

I think he's got a shower now or something. You know, no fancy cars, no jets. I mean, the guy's. He's a really interesting person. Highly intelligent, obviously, but it's really been fun working with him. And we launched last year at your biohacking event and we had lines like crazy. I think you remember it was lines like for like five or six hours around the corner.

[Dave Asprey]

And this is stuff you could write a superhero movie about because, I mean, the Mad Scientist lab, except it's. It's a real lab. And the data is not just those small difference. It. It was a big difference in the results. I think it made normal ingredients four times more effective.

[Ashley Grace]

Yeah, it's like the. The data was 83% increase in mental quality of performance, a 51% increase in attention, 28% in short term memory and 25% operational memory. And those were 30 day results.

[Dave Asprey]

My God.

[Ashley Grace]

And the comparison, what makes it even more impressive is we compared the same formula that had the Ignaton charge, as we call it, compared to the exact same formula that did not have the charge and compared to placebo. And so those results were statistically. Greater than both the non charged version and placebo.

[Dave Asprey]

In 30 days, how much better was the charged version versus the regular version of the same compounds?

[Ashley Grace]

It was four times better.

[Dave Asprey]

There we go. And it's, it's, it actually doesn't, I want to say it doesn't make sense because we think of our, our bodies as primarily chemical. And that's mostly programming we got in the last hundred years coming from Rockefeller and the way he really fought against electrical and energetic and environmental medicine because he couldn't control those. The way he could sell petroleum derived drugs.

[Ashley Grace]

Don't get me started.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah, but we also, at least in my world, everyone listening for more than a few episodes has heard me talk about electrical patterns in the body and how you can use electricity or magnetism or light or temperature, because these are all really important ways the body communicates with itself. We use most of those at upgrade labs. But we also know that even though we see all this stuff around us, when you boil away all the way it's represented inside our consciousness, it's all just quantum stuff. Like the foundational level of reality, as far as we can tell, is quantum. And that means that subatomic particles that exist in the quantum realm must have an effect. But the, the intuitive leap is how the heck do you engineer something around that. Right. And that's why it takes, you know, a giant buried circle of semiconductors, colliding atoms at CERN or something to just prove that a particle that maybe existed actually dead, but then to be able to attract it. Do you know how the ignaton particles, like how do they gather them?

[Ashley Grace]

Yeah. So what we're trying to do in the. Or what we're doing in the lab with. You saw the 18 million dollar lab with the space lasers and vacuums, we're trying to recreate an environment that's as similar to the surface of the sun as we can. So the vacuum chambers are creating a 1,1 billionth of the earth's atmosphere vacuum.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay.

[Ashley Grace]

Inside of that chamber, we put the supplement ingredients, things like citicoline or alpha gpc, you know, regular, you know, high quality supplement ingredients, powders.

[Dave Asprey]

I consulted on the list with Erica. Like we were tweaking it on a blackboard or a whiteboard.

[Ashley Grace]

Yeah. Oh, good. I didn't know that. That's great. So those powders go inside the vacuum chambers and then we introduce a cold plasma, a charged cold plasma cloud into that vacuum chamber. Again, representing, trying to do what, what's happening on the sun. And then we shoot the lasers through the chamber and through the plasma clouds, creating a nuclear reaction inside of the vacuum chamber that creates the ignaton energy. We then direct that energy into the supplement powders and specifically it binds geometrically to the hydrogen proton. So what we're doing is we're enhancing the hydrogen of each one of those powdered substances. And our body is what, 70 water. So there's a lot of hydrogen in our body. So what we know is the results of those university studies that have been published in the peer reviewed journals. The 83% increase in mental performance, the 51% increase in attention, or on the longevity side, the 37% decrease in IL6 or 28 decrease in CRP. Those are big. So we know that what we don't really know is why. And the hypothesis as to why is because of this excited hydrogen is either amplifying the res, the impact that those substances are having on our body or increasing bioavailability of those substances or some combination of both. But clearly it's having an amazing impact as you're seeing from those, from the studies that we just referenced.

[Dave Asprey]

I definitely felt something happening there. So people have read my books, a lot of the audience has and thank you. Sometimes I write about things that to me intuitively must be true and then I find all the science that, you know, this is confirming science that supports the hypothesis of why this happens. An example there, I've talked about C8MCT as being the best MCT oil for cognitive function. Five years after I published the book, then research came out, UC San Diego confirming that it was the one that drove ketosis the fastest. Like, well, there you go. I didn't have the science, but I had all the reasons it should be that way and the felt sense. And so when I first started taking ignat, I'm like, wait, there's a felt sense here. Like something is shifting in this. And then it just became easier to sort of reach out and like I wonder how that works. And it's like the answer is just more easily available. It's like there's less resistance between the inner knowing or the intuitive sense, whether it's intuition about a person or intuition about how something must be. And I know those are kind of woo topics, but it's a way that we create. A lot of the great scientists made intuitive leaps, you know, waking up from dreams. Watson and Cricket, you know, they dreamed about the structure of DNA.

[Ashley Grace]

It just came to me.

[Dave Asprey]

They say, right, yeah, well actually they said woke up from a dream.

[Ashley Grace]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

And then my grandfather who co invented the process for making plutonium that we use even today. He said, I woke up, I had a dream about it. We worked on it for probably years in the lab and then was like, oh, that's it. So there's this is a part of human life. And a lot of listeners are nodding and some of them are going, that's not provable.

[Ashley Grace]

Okay either, whatever you like, however you want to live.

[Dave Asprey]

But I do feel like this is Ignaton has done something for my abilities that way that I appreciate. That's why I keep taking it. Every breakthrough in human performance comes down to one thing just changing your state. And right now, the science and the technology and the ancient practices are converging faster than you realize. For 50 years, bad policy and stigma blocked scientific researchers from studying some of the most powerful tools for the human brain. And that just changed. This October, the researchers, the clinicians, the guys pioneers in consciousness, tech and psychedelics are all going to be under one roof in Austin. And you can be there too. With me. For the first time ever, I'm hosting and operating beyond Wonderland two full days where you'll learn the science and the practice of changing your state and you'll get to talk to the researchers doing it. You'll learn how these tools unlock a version of yourself you didn't know existed. You'll find talks about altered states with or without the psychedelics. A tech hall where you can try the tools yourself. Breakout sessions, breathworks, ceremony integration circles, and more. This field is moving really fast and the people who are here in Austin on October 13th and 14th with me are going to be years ahead of everyone who finds out about this later. Learn more get your ticket [e-mail] your brain is probably underperforming right now. No judgment. Most brains are. In fact, you're probably not thinking as clearly, sleeping as deeply, or performing as well as you could be. Braintap helps you unlock your full potential. It offers More than 2000 in app audio sessions and an innovative headset that together deliver light pulses, binaural beats, isochronic tones, guided visualizations, and 10 cycle holographic music to rewire your brain for higher performance. In just 20 minutes, you can achieve deep brainwave states that would take hours through traditional meditation. It also helps regulate your sleep wake cycle, making it easier to focus, fall asleep, stay asleep and wake up refreshed without drugs or dependency. This isn't just some trend. Braintap leads with tons of real science. They've conducted multiple studies proving this works from enhancing memory and focus to accelerating Cognitive learning, managing stress, and deepening visualization. Braintap is a holistic tool for peak performance in work, creativity and daily Life. Go to BrainTap.com Dave to get $100 off the BrainTap power bundle.

[Ashley Grace]

Yerka talks about it. Ignatons are carriers of coherence. And that because this is. It's not light, but it comes and rides, kind of rides along with light. And when you take them, you get the results that we've talked about because we're charging those supplement compounds that work on specific areas of the body. But Ignaton is not just a supplement company. We're working on some very advanced technologies now to create fields of exposure that can basically increase the coherence of our cellular structures and really change longevity in a dramatic way. So that's where we're going in the next couple of years.

[Dave Asprey]

And coherence of cells, or you could also say cells that just don't lose coherence. That's really what all longevity is about. And think of it like this. There's a force for entropy which is, okay, everything eventually breaks down. So there's like the chaos is the natural order of things, this randomness. And so life is a coherent field that resists entropy. And then as you move closer to death, you have less coherence and more entropy. And eventually you can't self sustain that. And then we call that dying. So if we can use fields that signal to our cells, or maybe even to substructural components in our cells, hey, behave yourselves, Be coherent and become coherent with each other. Coherence means aligned. So they're all vibrating at the same time. Exactly. And we actually have different math to describe different states of coherence. I know, because we train brainwave coherence to get certain structures or certain parts or locations on the brain to do exactly the same thing exactly the same time. And when people do that, wow, their brains work way better. But I think having a field that maybe makes a supplement more coherent, maybe that's what it's ultimately doing. And then the tech that you're working on that makes actually directly humans while you sit in a chamber essentially and do this.

[Ashley Grace]

Yes.

[Dave Asprey]

Well, that's not a new idea. I'm guessing you might have heard of a guy named Lakovsky. So back in the 30s, there were a few people who were working on this. One of them was Royal Rife, another one was Tesla, and then was Lakovsky. And Lakovsky was the one who was the most coherence oriented. And he made something called the Multi wave oscillator and actually have a direct replica of his original equipment.

[Ashley Grace]

Oh wow.

[Dave Asprey]

That it should be arriving shortly. And I've used knockoffs of it, but this is one based on actually a copy of one of his few existing devices. So I have like a 90 year old replica of a 90 year old device and massive differences. But we just properly stamped out field based and electrical based and coherence based medicine until very recently. So it's coming back online. And the fact that you've got, I'm going to lovingly say a kind, humble and a little eccentric in the best possible way billionaire who's saying I'm going to do this and not just write a check. When you're wealthy you can write a check for, but to actually operate day to day.

[Ashley Grace]

Oh, he's in every day.

[Dave Asprey]

And I mean I, I spent an hour with him and Valeria going what if we change this ingredient? And I'm not officially affiliated with the company, I'm just doing this because it's cool and because like what great company, what else would I ever do with an hour or two? And I'm having seen the results of it, I'm like, when do I get to get in the chamber? Tell me, tell me about these chambers. What are they?

[Ashley Grace]

So it's basically there's a device right now that's called a, it's called a, a holoton. And I'm, I'm just now learning about this literally in the last week. And the holoton is a manufactured particle and the, the folks that we license the ignaton technology from have been dealing with these holotons as well. And they built a chair that was licensed and utilized by NASA for space travel. So when you travel in lack of gravity, your bones begin to. Atrophy is probably not the right word, but mushify declines. Okay, mushify, we'll go with that. Anyway, this device has been utilized by NASA and the Department of Defense. And so Yerka had the idea of, hey, why don't we put ignatons with this and create a holoton ignaton therapy chair. And so that's the new vision. We will be creating a prototype of that next year.

[Dave Asprey]

When do we get to try it?

[Ashley Grace]

I know, I don't know. Hopefully by the end of 27, maybe 28 at the latest.

[Dave Asprey]

Bring him to the biohacking conference.

[Ashley Grace]

That's what I'm saying. Exactly.

[Dave Asprey]

We'll have like a, one of the prizes from stage, like you get to sit in it because everyone will want to and there's only going to be one prototype, I'm guessing.

[Ashley Grace]

Yeah, but highly exciting. We. One of the things, and I think Yerka showed this image when you had him on stage at the recent event was the water molecule. And I'll send this to you guys. Maybe you can put it on the, on the show where we're, you know, overlay as B roll when we're talking. But the imagery shows a regular water molecule, and it's all, like, misshapen and low energy and just doesn't look very attractive compared to an ignaton charged water molecule, which is brilliantly bright with energy and perfect symmetry. And so again, back to our bodies being 70% water. What would you want your body to look like? Right.

[Dave Asprey]

Well, how do you get ignatons into water, though?

[Ashley Grace]

They dissolved them into powdered substances that were then dissolved into the water.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay. So basically like amino acids or electrolytes,

[Ashley Grace]

kind of the same way that we put the ignatons into the body, the water that's in our bodies.

[Dave Asprey]

Oh, okay, I'm getting this now. I was going through the list of things that I wished had ignatons in it with your gun the very early days, and I said, what about electrolytes?

[Ashley Grace]

He said, but we want to get

[Dave Asprey]

it in the brain, so we first focus on brain stuff. So this is something along that. I don't know if it's electrolytes or not. You guys will come out.

[Ashley Grace]

They're amino acids.

[Dave Asprey]

Oh, aminos. Okay, perfect. So that would get it throughout the body, which seems like a good strategy to me. Okay.

[Ashley Grace]

Yeah. And so constant ideas are flowing. Yerk is very good about, hey, we got to stay focused on, you know, the current products that we have, and we're moving toward the technology dimension again. We're not. The vision's not to stay as a, as a supplement company, but to really revolutionize, you know, wellness through quantum technology.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay, now I'm going to have to ask you something about this. We've all heard of greenwashing, which is when, like an oil company is like, we're helping the environment because we scammed someone with a carbon credit. Okay. We've also heard of longevity washing, where people are just taking whatever they can and saying, oh, no, that's for longevity, because it's. It's worth more, or there's AI washing. I like the fact that someone talked to AI at once. Doesn't mean your whole company is an AI company. But if you can convince people you're worth more. But quantum washing might be the worst thing Ever. So you just said that ignaton's quantum. And by the way, we love quantum. They've convinced me with 36 clinical studies, I believe there's efficacy there. And I know that we're all quantum beings when you blow it all away. But we say it's a quantum technology. How do you know?

[Ashley Grace]

Well, basically it's through the testing that we've done. Right. We have, we don't have 36 studies necessarily, but we have three studies that have been in peer reviewed journals and we've got our other studies that we're doing right now that are hopefully being published sometime soon. But the results continuously show that the ignaton charged ingredients are outperforming the same ingredients that don't have the charge and placebo. So since you can't see them and there's no way to really prove that they're there per se, from a scientific observation standpoint, the only way we can prove it is by increased efficacy of the compounds. And that's what we continue to prove time and time again. So that was Juerka's very first recommendation in terms of bringing me in. From a marketing standpoint. It's like we're going to talk about the data that we have. And so our slogan is born from light, backed by science. And it really is the science that allows us to make these sorts of claims.

[Dave Asprey]

If any company on earth has the, the technical chops to say, you know, this is a, a piece of quantum technology, it's the silicon wafers that are collecting subatomic particles that kind of give you a little bit of cred to say we actually are dealing with quantum things. So I would say yeah, it's a quantum technology. And I'm, I'm very, I'm very interested to see the new, the new tech that comes out that won't be commercially available though for several years for quite a while.

[Ashley Grace]

Yeah, I'm not exactly sure what the timing is. I'm assuming at some point in time it will be available in high end clinics and hospital settings and things like that. Maybe.

[Dave Asprey]

Probably upgrade labs.

[Ashley Grace]

Probably upgrade labs.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay.

[Ashley Grace]

Wow.

[Dave Asprey]

This is like real science fiction happening right now. And one thing that had me really excited is I've been hacking my sleep for years because I used to be a terrible sleeper and I'm actually a pretty good sleeper. I've taught hundreds of thousands of people how to get better sleep. In fact, guys, sleepwithdave.com has like the list of all this stuff, but I don't think we've updated it with Ignaton sleep formula. Because I just got some at the biohacking conference that we put on in May the Beyond Biohacking. And for two years, Yerka's been torturing me going, yeah, we have the sleep formula. It's so powerful. Like, will you send me some? Oh, we're still testing. I'm like, nah. So I finally finished my first bottle of it that I got at the, at the conference and definitely notice, like, just better, actually better. Rem, I would say, is that's the design.

[Ashley Grace]

It's the testing that we've done on that one shows a 25% increase in REM sleep in two weeks. And the exciting thing about this product is you don't have to go get a blood test to measure this. You don't have to, you know, some advanced psychological mind screening. You can just check on your Oura ring or your Fitbit or Apple Watch, whatever device you may have, and you'll see your REM sleep increase works or it doesn't. That's right. So it's really transparent from a standpoint of us. We have the data that shows it, but, you know, everything. Every person that buys this has the chance to verify their own results. And we're obviously encouraging those testimonials. People are talking about the, the improved dreams that they're having, which is very interesting. And I think that's why Jurka was saying, hey, we're going to wait. Because early versions of this were delivering very powerful dreams that weren't always comfortable for some people. And so there was a lot of iterations back and forth on the, the formulations to make sure that we had a product that's going to, you know, deliver more dreams but not be. Make them restless dreams.

[Dave Asprey]

You know, I think you should have a pro version.

[Ashley Grace]

Exactly.

[Dave Asprey]

I kind of double my dose or something. Like, you're not the first person that said that if it's a restless stream, that that's my problem.

[Ashley Grace]

Yeah, well, there's, that's. The other viewpoint is you're going to get the dreams of what your consciousness is going to reflect back to you. Right. So the more peaceful that you are as an individual, probably the more peaceful dreams you're going to get out of it. If you're dealing with a lot of anxiety or you're playing on the dark side a little bit, then you're going to get those type of dreams.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah, I don't get restless dreams or nightmares. It's just not a thing. Sometimes they're weird, but that's just.

[Ashley Grace]

Yeah, that's been my experience. I have some weird dreams with it, but it's not necessarily a restless dream, but it's kind of bizarre and I remember them, which is the other interesting thing. I don't always remember my dreams, but with the REM sleep, I'm remembering them. We have a couple different influencers that we're working with right now and they're. I'm emailing with them every day and, and they're all reporting the same thing. And you know, REM sleep up two hours for one lady who's, you know, right on the perimenopause angle and she's dealing with some sleep issues. She got two hours increased rem, which is, that's some. That's more than a lot of people even get at all.

[Dave Asprey]

It's more than most 20 year olds get.

[Ashley Grace]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

Wow. Okay. So fixing sleep would be a kind of a cool thing. So I'm. I'm currently on three different ignaton supplements. I've got the longevity one, the cognition one, and the sleep. And I, yeah, I've been on those first two for a couple of years now.

[Ashley Grace]

So. Have you noticed anything with your consciousness? Because I've got an example I'll share with you if you. Over the holidays I had, you know, family comes together and sometimes things don't always go as planned with family after three or four days. Right. So I come in to the room and I start having a conversation with a couple family members. A third family member is there and, and she doesn't like what I'm saying and she makes a very nasty comment directed at me. And so in my old days, I would have been. And I was triggered at the moment too, in this case, I was immediately triggered. I snapped my head around like this to respond to her in my. What would have been a typical negative fashion and told her really what I thought.

[Dave Asprey]

Did you do the Darth Vader thing?

[Ashley Grace]

Exactly.

[Dave Asprey]

That's what I was.

[Ashley Grace]

That's what I normally would have done. Right. So I snapped around. But as I'm turning, I kid you not, Dave, I kind of time slowed down and I almost came out of my body and I heard a voice say. And I interpreted it to be my voice saying, now's your chance. How do you want to respond?

[Dave Asprey]

Whoa.

[Ashley Grace]

And as I turn, like literally this is all just snap. By the time I finished my turn, I just smiled at her and I turned right back around and went back to my conversation and I was talking to my wife in that conversation. Later, she comes up to me and she's like, oh my gosh, how did you do that? I was expecting you just to ruin the entire evening. You were just going to lay into her and you didn't do that? I'm so proud of you. And so I literally changed the reality in real time of everyone in that room by not responding and lowering my vibration into that negativity. Since that time, I've had some other examples of this where this real time kind of just knowing happens. And I wonder if you've experienced anything like that.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah, well, first I gotta say there's an easier way to just pepper spray just from a place of love. Just lean over and give a little squirt and. Right. And you say, it hurts so good. Then you just go back to work. Exactly. It doesn't ruin the evening.

[Ashley Grace]

Exactly. At least not for me.

[Dave Asprey]

So the spiritual uses of pepper spray are many. I, I mean, so I've been on it for a couple years and I don't really talk about this much on the show, but. But there are, there are abilities that, that emerge. They're called the yogic siddhis. Have you heard of these?

[Ashley Grace]

No.

[Dave Asprey]

It's S I D H I. And the Patanjali wrote this up a long time ago and it's called the Yoga sutras. And this is around 50 documented superpowers that humans exhibit on the path to enlightenment. And not all humans exhibit all of them, but they're like, hey, if you start a path of meditation and consciousness and self awareness, sometimes you'll know other people's thoughts. Sometimes you'll be able to heal other people, sometimes you'll levitate. There's all kinds of stuff in there. And they're saying these aren't common, but they're common enough that we've seen these patterns because we keep writing them down on scrolls and hiding them in mountains and things like that. So old school, biohacking without computers. And then more recently, guys like Dean Radin from the Institute of Noetic Sciences who's been on the show, they were actually a sister organization to the longevity nonprofit that I ran in the 90s in Palo Alto. So they've been studying consciousness while another group was studying advanced longevity. And he came out with a book, I think it's called Becoming Superhuman, Supernormal Supernatural. Supernatural. So what's Dean's book called anyway? It's one of them like that, but Science of Magic. The Science of Magic could be it. But both of those books, both Joe's and Dean's talk about this. Alberto Viodo, who's been on the show, a friend and a shaman teacher for many, many years also came up with like, a shamanic interpretation of these things. And science will show that people who meditate with a statistically valid number, but still small number exhibit these abilities. At this year's Beyond Biohacking conference, we had the kids who were able to read blindfolded and practice intuition on stage. The mindsight people with the Art of Living foundation. Even our neuroscientist here at 40 Years of Zen. We've been studying consciousness and teaching people to be conscious for more than a decade. He's the neuroscientist from telepathy tapes. These things are real. And over the course of the last 25 years of fixing my biology, amplifying it, some of that stuff does happen. And I know from personal experience. And no, I'm not going to claim I have superpowers and I'm not going to tell you guys what I can do, because one of the warnings in these ancient books is that if you pursue the yogic siddhis, or if you get one, you're very likely to get stuck on it and then kind of lose your way. So they're like, oh, if one happens, just like, cool and like, use it when appropriate and just continue on your path. And that's what I'm practicing. But yeah, I've noticed that one of my teachers for more than a decade on the energy and spiritual stuff actually did say in the last few months, she's like, wow, you're getting a lot stronger. So the things I can do, I can do more powerfully. And now there's a small number of people say you're practicing witchcraft. No, I'm not practicing any kind of craft from any kind of lineage. Lineage that exists. I've studied many, many different lineages from Eastern stuff, the Chinese, Indian, Ayurvedic, South American, agnostic, Christianity. Like, I'm one class away from a degree in religious studies. But I'll just say, yeah, I'll just say that. That there are things that emerge that some of which I already had from neurofeedback practice and breath work and whatever, but they got a lot stronger, some of them, not all of them. And yeah, there's. There's people in Austin who know what I can do because they see it and they can. Can you do that for me? I'm like, sure.

[Ashley Grace]

So, yeah, this happened to me about six months a part of it.

[Dave Asprey]

I really do. That was a long answer. Sorry.

[Ashley Grace]

But no, that's good.

[Dave Asprey]

I'm trying to Say things without saying things. So I get it. Yeah, it was.

[Ashley Grace]

I wasn't even looking for it. Right. It's like I notice I'm sharper, I can remember people's names better. All these types of things. And then all of a sudden this experience happens again. It was about six months of taking it and talking to Yerka. The ignatons, as they build up in your body, this is the type of thing that happens. It's like meditating and drawing this ignaton energy into you naturally. If you had all day to meditate, which some people do and most of us don't, but by having this excited hydrogen that's coming into your body and over time accumulating and replacing the hydrogen that's already in your body, this increase in consciousness starts to appear for many people.

[Dave Asprey]

Wow, that's accurate. It's what Yurko said that he noticed. This is what Valeria, who was the biggest skeptic of all, said. No, I started intuition turned up and there are more things than intuition that people are capable of. But yeah, I look over the last couple years, I hadn't thought of it until now. There's things, I was already well within my set of abilities, but they're, they're stronger.

[Ashley Grace]

It kind of gives you wind behind you in that direction. Yeah, right.

[Dave Asprey]

Well, I hadn't considered it, but I think, I think town's a big part of that. I do a lot of. A lot of stuff. Sometimes being n of one and spending two and a half million dollars on reversing my age and increasing my intelligence and consciousness, it's hard to know it was that one thing, but it's like, what's the one thing that makes a herd of sheep move?

[Ashley Grace]

Right.

[Dave Asprey]

It's kind of a lot of things. Right. So I think ignaton's a major part of the recipe for this. So. Yeah, thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't really considered it. Your doctor said your labs look normal. Okay, then why don't you feel like yourself? Why are you exhausted all the time? Why has your body stopped responding to the things that used to work? That's why Gatlin exists. Gatlin is a physician led optimization program for people who know something is off, even when the conventional system says everything looks fine. It's also for people who want more energy, better recovery, better sleep, and long term performance. Because the current system often waits for disease. Most people get 10 minutes with a doctor, a basic blood panel, and a vague everything looks normal. Even when they still feel off. Gatlin does things Differently. You speak with a licensed medical provider. You get comprehensive labs. And depending on your needs, your plan may include hormone support, thyroid support, peptide therapy, and longevity focused care personalized around your actual biology. Not one size fits all medicine. Feeling off shouldn't be dismissed just because it's common. Start your journey [e-mail] Dave and use code Dave. That's G A t l a n.com Dave. Code Dave. So if you're listening to this, you could be going, if I take ignaton, will I get superpowers? I don't know. It depends what you think superpowers are. Maybe just intuition is built into the human body and you just needed enough energy and enough coherence and alignment to just notice it. And that was my experience.

[Ashley Grace]

No, and I. You're right. I mean that's. Since that time I've noticed lots of different. Similar experiences with. Dealing with other people.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah.

[Ashley Grace]

Where in real time I'm able to just think about, like, how do I want this person to perceive what I'm about to say. Right. Without being calculative and manipulative. It's just more around the peacefulness of how do I want to talk to this person, how do I want to engage and what outcome do I want to have happen as a result of this conversation. And all that's happening in a real time setting. It's quite remarkable.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah. These. I'm happy that we can talk about these shifts. And yeah, you work for the company. You could be making all this up. And so could I.

[Ashley Grace]

Right.

[Dave Asprey]

Sponsored episode, whatever. But I don't know. I put my time to actually take this stuff. I didn't get paid to go consult and deal with stuff. It was just out of pure curiosity. And I have a pretty good track record of finding the big stuff before it's big if I have a damn good track record of that. So I'm a futurist that way. And yeah, one of the things that was already in my set of abilities was to figure out where someone's energy is stuck in their body. And you could say, Dave, that's complete nonsense. You just mentioned non scientific words. Well, we could measure the energy with lots of different physics devices. So. Oops. But more importantly than whether you can measure it or not, it doesn't mean something is real. If can't, it doesn't exist. If you can't measure it. It means you may just not have the right measuring tape. But when you can reliably and repeatedly create results. So I can look at someone and figure out where they're stuck and help them get unstuck. And it's not a cognitive process. It's an energetic process. And so that has improved noticeably since I started taking. I'm glad you pointed that out to me. I hadn't put those together.

[Ashley Grace]

It's really interesting that people, you know, it's all. It's great that people are skeptical. Right? I mean, that's. Everybody's free to do that. But to me, I always find it interesting that people don't believe in this energetic part of our being, but they'll use a cell phone and they'll have WI fi, and, you know, it's all around us all the time. Right. And none of us know how that works, but we just know it does. And so why would we think that energy wouldn't work the same way with our own bodies? Arguably the most complex and beautiful technology that exists.

[Dave Asprey]

I actually don't believe in X rays because I can't see them. How absurd is that? Like, let me cook you with an X ray laser. Okay, fine. Like so. But yeah, our intuition is a real thing, and it is trainable. And I train intuition every week here. And it's just teaching people this is the signal to look for. And once you have that, there are lots of teachers out there who will teach things like qigong, right? Things like reiki healing and all. They're not all made up. They're not fake. Some people are not very good at them and say they're good, and some people when they're really good, like, is that person from around here? What is up? And I think ignaton is moving people's coherence, as you put it, which is what turns on these abilities. And meditation and breath work will also increase your coherence. They're just too damn slow. Right, Right. I want, like, a USB thing I can just suck on that makes me fully coherent in a minute. But we haven't.

[Ashley Grace]

Maybe we might have that for you in a couple years.

[Dave Asprey]

Can you guys get that?

[Ashley Grace]

Well, what really turned me around on this whole conversation, honestly, was my son, who's 24 now, about when he was 9, we had just moved to Boulder, you know, energetic capital of the world, right?

[Dave Asprey]

Oh, yeah.

[Ashley Grace]

And he was having all these problems. He was having hives and just had severe constipation and all this stuff. We were taking all these doctors and nobody could figure it out. And they were wanting to prescribe all these drugs and all kinds of things for him. And my wife and I were like, we don't really think this is a good plan. But we were just kind of at a last resort, and somebody suggested to us, some friend that we had just met in town said, you should talk to my energy guy. And so we were open to that. We said, okay, well, why not? We don't know what that's like.

[Dave Asprey]

Everyone in Boulder, right?

[Ashley Grace]

Yeah, Right. We don't know what that means, but okay, like, we'll try it, because we don't really want him to go down the drug path. This guy comes up to our house, and his. His name's Steve. He's now a family friend. He spends our holidays with us. He's become a part of our family, so you know where the stuff story's going. But he's. He puts my son up on a table, and, you know, the placebo effect, if that was going to work, would have already worked because my son wanted to be healed. And we went to all these doctors, and so, you know, nothing wrong with the placebo effect because that's just an energetic healing anyway. Right. So. But anyway, he. I always like to point that out in the story because that had not worked. And Steve comes and he puts him on a table, and my wife and I are standing around because we're just like, wow, what a. What's this guy going to do? We don't know. And he starts running his fingers up and down over my son's body, like, just not even touching him, just above him and doing all this stuff. And he's, like, talking to himself and doing these. These things. And we're like, watching this. And it goes on for about 15 minutes, 20 minutes. And he says, okay, have him drink a lot of water and give up the gluten, and he's going to be fine. And we're like, what?

[Dave Asprey]

He was editing fields? Yeah.

[Ashley Grace]

And that's what happened. He was fine. Like, literally everything went away within days. He was completely normal. And we stopped, you know, got off the bread and all the gluten, and he's been fine ever since. And since that time, Steve, like I said, he's helped my wife, he's helped me with several things along the path, and that really opened my own eyes up to the power of energy healing in our minds and what can really be done. And so when Ignaton came along and presented itself to me, I did see the universe working in its mysterious ways and presenting this opportunity because it's an energetic charge applied to a supplement. Yeah. Wow.

[Dave Asprey]

So Donny Epstein, who's the founder of Network Spinal, he's one of those guys who can, from across the room do something and what like, it's very visceral. And he's backstage at the Beyond Biohacking conference supporting me. You'll see him backstage at Tony Robbins event supporting Tony and a lot of other powerful people who are less well known. And Dr. Barry is another one of those who's been on the show as well. Dr. Barry Morgolan, who's also at the conference offering me support. So I'm blessed to have people like that in my life. But it's one thing to say they're doing something, but I have seen him and I've actually replicated not what he does. He's in his own unique thing. But there's times when I'm not touching someone and you do something and their, their whole body, their eyes are closed, they don't even know what I'm doing. Like it's, it's, it's like qigong. Like it's a thing we make energy in our bodies. So it only follows that if you could learn how to manipulate that, that others would feel it. I think that's what's going on there. So I do, I do think there's something to it. And yeah, now that I'm considering this, I think the ignaton technology has amplified it is a good way to put it. But if you take a random group of people off the street and you test them for any of this kind of ability, you know, to see what's, predict what's behind a card the way those kids can do, you will, you'll prove with science that it's impossible. If you take a group of people who meditate and from that population, you'll prove it beyond the shadow of a doubt that these things are real. And this is because people who are more regulated or more coherent can do it and people who are not regulated and not coherent can't. And that actually makes sense, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. So you've had this happen in your family. And any technology that can slightly amplify superpowers, I'm all into. I mean, that's why I hooked my brain up to computers 25 years ago. And I still do it with clients. That's why my house is full of tech that does that. And I haven't showed you my supplement room wing. It's what any supplement store on earth wishes it was. But I do that because, well, number one, it keeps me healthy and I do not have the genes to be healthy. And number two, it amplifies my consciousness. And if you get the biology working right, the chemistry, biochemistry, then the coherence really can stick. And I think that's when the, the greatest attributes of humans come out. Like when, when our bodies work well and our energy works well. Like we're actually wired to kind of be nice to each other and to make things better.

[Ashley Grace]

It's pretty interesting, isn't it? Yeah, it's beautiful from a existential and, you know, spiritual standpoint. All right.

[Dave Asprey]

I've also, I never had a chance to interview David Hawkins, but there's something called the Hawkins Consciousness Scale, which is for some listeners. Some listeners are going to say, oh yeah, I know about that. Others like what? This is a, I would say one of the greatest Western mystics, very knowledgeable guy of the late last century. Power versus Force. Unless that was Eckhart Tolle. I was confused there. Books. David Hawkins most famous book is Power versus Force. Probably in this, this consciousness model he talks about muscle testing and God, I hate muscle testing. So as a young computer science guy, well, I'll tell you, okay, as a computer science guy, you know, young family of Los Alamos National Labs scientists, like that is the dumbest thing ever, right? Because we just so desperately want to believe that we're meat robots and that we're logical and the reality is humans are not logical and we're logical at the same time because we have two systems running. You have a logic based animal system that appears illogical to your logical brain because its goals are different than your goals. So you say you have two logical systems that don't agree because they have different beliefs about reality and different inputs. However you want to describe it, it's confusing as all hell to be human. So what David described in Power versus Force is, well, muscle testing works and in this practice, and a lot of listeners already know, but you can use your body to tell whether something is good for you or bad for you or true or false. And you do it by having someone hold their arm out. Another person pushes on the arm and if you push it takes a certain amount of strength. And then if you tell something that's not true, like a lie, like my name is Susan or something, then your arm is weak and if you say my name is David, it's really strong. And so I don't like muscle testing because, well, I can't say I don't. I actually use it all the time. But I didn't like muscle testing because it just, it makes you reconsider the way reality works and the role that your body has that you don't know that it has. You can't sense that it's doing this, but it is. You make. How dare you get weak. Like, I want to be in charge of whether I can lie, right? And actually lying is bad for you, and it's a poor practice to do, but people still do it. So the reason I'm telling this long story is that if you look at muscle testing, David says, who's the authority on it? If your consciousness is below 200, you can't do it. If you're an atheist, you can't do it. So someone will say, I can't muscle test. And they just can't do it. And that's because they're pretty much stuck in trauma, right? So it's one of these things that I do rely on it, actually, especially when things just don't make sense. Like, yeah, we'll just try this.

[Ashley Grace]

I do a lot of it too.

[Dave Asprey]

And some people do it like you put two fingers together and like, how hard is it to split your fingers apart? So it was hard for me to learn because of my own skepticism, but it's, it's a part of my practice now. But that's another example of this. And I will bet you money that ignition ton makes people better at muscle testing just because the more coherent you are, the better you'll be both at being tested and being a tester. So if you're listening to the show and you're like, I'm a zombie, maybe this will have you more of an effect. But I do want to know.

[Ashley Grace]

Probably not listening. Fair point.

[Dave Asprey]

Are there people where ignaton just doesn't work?

[Ashley Grace]

You know, there are, there's been not very many, though. Like, I, I, they always send me when somebody sends in a cancellation or asks for return. I get a report on all of that. We get maybe one or two every two weeks of people that return and maybe one every three months where somebody writes something really nasty. And I can feel the energy when I read the email. Like, I know why it didn't work for them. Right?

[Dave Asprey]

It's like they're the under two hundreds on the consciousness scale. They couldn't do muscle you testing.

[Ashley Grace]

That's exactly right. They're looking for that magic pill, magic solution without changing or addressing anything else in their life. And there's a good chance that ignaton won't work for those types of people. But it, the good news is those types of people generally don't try ignaton. So we don't get a lot of people that come through that that experience that. And we do have a 30 day money back guarantee that we stand behind because we want. It's an expensive product and we've got great science that shows that it works, but it's still something different. And so we want to give people the confidence that they can try the product. And we did. Very, very few people take advantage of that in return.

[Dave Asprey]

So if you're super angry, cranky pants, you should try it because maybe you'll be less angry. And if you try it and nothing happens, well, you got a money back guarantee and you could do ignaton.com Dave and get 15% off. And please do. Thanks for offering that to our listeners and for sponsoring the show. It's one of those things that's surprising where it would be a lot easier for me if I was like. And some people in the space are more like this. Like, we are meat robots. I will only follow the data. Like, well, you should also follow the intuition and see if the data supports the intuition, because very different things happen when you do that. Plus, you'll be a lot happier and you'll be able to see a larger solution space. And so it'd be easier for me, when I'm lecturing to rooms of thousands of doctors or at Harvard or something, to stand up and say, well, I would never talk about subatomic particles affecting consciousness because it's not scientific.

[Ashley Grace]

Right?

[Dave Asprey]

And some of my most vocal critics, who I dearly love because I use their account names as discount codes on my. On my E. Commerce. Thank you, by Elaine. I love you, brother. And I'm not sorry that I renamed urine therapy after you. Um, oh, wait, what was I talking about? Oh, I love my life. Oh, my God. Um, so what's happening here is I'm willing to go out there and talk about things that I wouldn't have considered to be real after I vetted them. Uh, and a couple of the quantum technologies I've talked about, like, look, this is so noticeably effective, I gotta talk about it. Like, I promised when I started podcasting, when I started the whole biohacking move, like, I'm going to talk about stuff that works. I don't care if I believe in it. Because what I believed worked was going to the gym 90 minutes a day, six days a week, eating less calories. And it just didn't. It didn't matter how much I wanted or how much I tried. And I just realized one day I could do what was supposed to work, regardless of results. Or I could just commit to myself. I only do Things that work. And if what I'm doing doesn't work, I'm going to change it. And that algorithm, my God, like, I am leaner and stronger and more fit, and everything in my life is better than it was 30 years ago. Like, everything I can measure and like, oh, my God. I think doing what works is a good strategy, and I think Ignaton works. And if it stops working, I'll stop taking it. I'll stop telling people about it. But after a couple years on it.

[Ashley Grace]

Yeah, you said it best. I think last year at the. At the conference, you said at some point, the evidence of it working has to be enough. We don't really have to understand why it works. We just have to observe that it does.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah. The biggest thing that makes me laugh is you can say, I felt this work, and some douchebag online will say, there is no evidence that it works. I'm like, hey, man, I felt it work is evidence. But what, you don't trust yourself? Because I trust myself. And it's funny. If I punch myself in the face, it hurts. I believe that it does. In fact, I might do it two times to make sure that I'm right. And after that, I got the message. But there are some people, they punch themselves in the face every single morning.

[Ashley Grace]

Right.

[Dave Asprey]

Every day because they believe it's going to work. And maybe it will if pain is your goal. So I'm willing to go out on a limb and say, hell, yeah on the Igaton stuff, because not only do you have the data, I felt it. And it's a different feeling than you're going to get with a normal supplement. And I take normal supplements, too.

[Ashley Grace]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

So thank you, Ashley, for. For coming out to Austin and for taking all that experience from Charlotte's Web and bringing it over to Ignaton. I think this is one of those important supplements. It's not the cheapest. Ignaton.com Dave say 15%, you get a money back guarantee. But making this available because if we had a lot didn't mean a lot of people, 10, 15% of people to just up their consciousness a little bit. This is what it's all about. And I think that we have the ability to pull others up just by being better humans.

[Ashley Grace]

So the old saying, if you want to change the world, change yourself. And that's exactly what we're talking about. Raising your own vibration is what Ignaton helps you do.

[Dave Asprey]

You know, I just had this idea. I think I'm going to send a couple bottles to Biolane. What do you think?

[Ashley Grace]

Why not?

[Dave Asprey]

I think I'll do that. Thanks, man. That's great. See you next time on the Human Upgrade Podcast.

[Ashley Grace]

A Human Upgrade, formerly Bulletproof Radio, was created and is hosted by Dave Asprey. The information contained in this podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended for the purposes of diagnosing, treating, curing, or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider, carefully read all labels and heed all directions and cautions that accompany the products. Information found or received through the podcast should not be used in place of a consultation or advice from a healthcare provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem or should you have any healthcare questions, please promptly call or see your healthcare provider. This podcast, including Dave Asprey and the producers, disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein. Opinions of guests are their own and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein. This podcast is owned by Bulletproof Media.