Podcast Summary: "Digital Twins: The End of Human Drug Testing for Biohackers"

The Human Upgrade™ with Dave Asprey — Episode 1342
Date: October 9, 2025
Guest: Dr. Derya Unutmaz, Jackson Laboratory Immunologist

Episode Overview

In this episode, Dave Asprey welcomes Dr. Derya Unutmaz, a leading immunologist at the Jackson Laboratory, to discuss the intersection of AI, digital twins, immunity, and human longevity. Together, they explore how artificial intelligence is reshaping medical research, accelerating drug discovery, and moving us closer to "longevity escape velocity." The conversation delves into the promise of digital twins for personalizing medicine, the re-engineering of the immune system, biomarkers for aging, and the rapid transformation coming to healthcare and education due to AI.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. AI & the Future of Medicine

• Dr. Unutmaz asserts it's becoming unethical for doctors not to use AI, as AI can already outperform many physicians in diagnosis and soon will in surgery.
  • Quote: "It is right now unethical for doctors not to use AI... Even now AI is better than medical doctors. Eventually robots will be better than most surgeons." (00:00, 05:28, 40:56)
• AI is on the verge of simulating biological systems via digital twins, drastically accelerating clinical trials and drug development.
  • Experiments that once took years can soon be done in minutes digitally. (04:35, 05:17)

2. Personalization & the Digital Twin Revolution

• Digital twins—exact AI-based emulations of individual biology—could let clinicians or even patients digitally test new drugs and treatments tailored to their exact system.
  • This would solve the "biggest problem in medicine," personalization. (05:28)
• Regulatory hurdles may slow adoption, but “demand will win” as the benefits for society, and politicians themselves, become clear. (06:31–06:45)

3. Rethinking the Immune System

• Dr. Unutmaz advocates for an 'Immune System 2.0'—reengineering biological defenses for the modern age, as many legacy features of our immune response now cause harm (e.g., chronic inflammation, autoimmune diseases).
  • Quote: "If you look at it from a very engineering perspective, it's not a very good system. In fact, immune system probably kills more than saves." (07:09)
• Immune dysfunction accelerates aging; for example, accelerated immune aging in HIV patients leads to earlier heart disease. (07:09–09:37)

4. Chronic Fatigue, Long Covid, and Immune Balance

• Chronic fatigue syndrome and Long Covid have immune and microbiome components.
  • Cutting-edge research links metabolites, gut bacteria, and immune markers, showing that different people have different disruptions—a need for personalized medicine. (09:59–12:57)
• Quote: "Immune system is sort of like the army, the police force, you know, the fire force. It could be very useful, but it could be very dangerous. So how do you keep the balance? Is. Is not so easy." (10:54)

5. Biomarkers & Longevity Hacks

• The single most underappreciated immune biomarker for longevity: “Exhausted” (battle-hardened, senescent) immune cells, especially those fighting persistent viruses like CMV.
  • These occupy critical space, block regeneration, and release inflammatory cytokines, driving aging. (19:48–22:39)
• Dr. Unutmaz’s personal strategies:
  • Metformin (even as a non-diabetic)
  • Omega-3s
  • Nicotinamide Riboside (NR) for NAD+ support after age 50
  • Urolithin A, certain vegetable extracts, and high-quality olive oil
  • Glucose control with CGM
  • Occasional use of GLP-1 agonists (23:06–28:09)
• On berberine vs. metformin: Prefers metformin for its stronger data; uses small doses of GLP-1 agonists for weight and metabolic benefits (27:08)

6. GLP-1 Agonists: The Game Changer

• GLP-1 drugs dramatically improve metabolism, support weight loss, and can even resolve sleep apnea—Dr. Unutmaz suggests their widespread adoption could add 5–10 years to human lifespan.
  • Quote: "GLP1 agonist probably is beginning to cross [escape velocity]... the average lifespan would increase by about between five to 10 years." (35:37, 35:25)
• Biological supplement strategies, including vitamin D, should be personalized and titrated to individual needs, not blanket recommendations. (30:06–31:48)

7. AI and the Road to Longevity Escape Velocity

• Dr. Unutmaz predicts artificial superintelligence (ASI) within 3–4 years, with practical medical immortality (“escape velocity”) likely within 10–15 years—if people can survive that long.
  • Quote: "I tell people, try to stay alive for the next 10 years... Then you, okay, we're definitely getting [to escape velocity]." (35:37–38:20)

8. AI as Medical Reviewer, Diagnostician, and Educator

• Believes AI should become the standard for peer review due to its breadth, lack of bias, and rigorous evaluation abilities.
  • Quote: "I trust AI much more than human reviewers because, you know, as scientists, your, your knowledge is very narrow." (45:39)
• AI doctors should be able to write prescriptions. Soon, it will be “malpractice” not to consult AI in medicine. (39:49–40:56)
• AI will personalize learning, making most of higher education obsolete—students should skip expensive college, learn to use AI, and focus on curiosity and agency. (49:00–54:16)

9. Wearables and Continuous Monitoring

• The next five years will bring wearables that track not just vitals but dozens or hundreds of molecular markers, fueling AI-driven personal health upgrades. (46:40–48:33)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On AI in Medicine:
  "It is right now unethical for doctors not to use AI. Very soon it's going to be malpractice." — Dr. Derya Unutmaz (00:00, 40:56)
• On Immune System Flaws:
  "If you look at it from a very engineering perspective, it's not a very good system. In fact, immune system probably kills more than saves." (07:09)
• On Personal Supplement Protocols:
  "I take omega 3 fatty acids...nicotinamide riboside...urolithin A...olive oil...I, I wear a glucose monitor, again, I'm not diabetic, but it's extremely useful." — Dr. Unutmaz (23:06–25:57)
• On Institutional Education:
  "Absolutely not. It's probably the worst investment of money and time you can do by going to a college for four or five years...Everything you learn is already obsolete in, in matter of months." — Dr. Unutmaz (51:41–54:16)
• On Digital Twins:
  "Imagine having virtual cells, virtual tissues, and in fact digital twins where AI can make predictions based on running experiments literally digitally. I think that's really transformative..." (04:35, 05:17)
• On Urgency:
  "Try to stay alive for the next 10 years." (35:37)

Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• AI surpasses human doctors: 00:00, 40:56
• Digital twins & personalized medicine: 04:35, 05:17
• Engineering the immune system: 07:09–09:37
• Chronic fatigue & multi-omic personalization: 09:59–12:57
• Personal supplement/health stack: 23:06–25:57
• GLP-1 agonists and lifespan: 35:25–35:37
• Escape velocity prediction: 35:37–38:20
• Education disruption by AI: 49:00–54:16
• AI for peer review/diagnostics: 45:39, 39:49–40:56

Conclusion

This episode delivers a deep dive into the future of medicine, longevity, and education—painting a world where AI-driven digital twins, personalized health interventions, and superintelligent reviewers are the new foundation of human health and progress. Dr. Derya Unutmaz provides both bold predictions and actionable biohacking tips, urging listeners to invest in their own health and AI literacy now in order to benefit from the exponential breakthroughs right around the corner.

For more on Dr. Unutmaz's work: jax.org

Episode host: Dave Asprey