Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Human Upgrade: Biohacking for Longevity & Performance

Host: Dave Asprey
Episode: I Tried At-Home Ultrasound for My Brain (#1377)
Guest: John Hacker, CEO of Zenbud
Date: December 9, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores cutting-edge, non-invasive technology for direct neural intervention: at-home focused ultrasound stimulation of the vagus nerve. Host Dave Asprey is joined by John Hacker, CEO of Zenbud, to discuss the science and practical use of their device that leverages focused ultrasound to modulate the nervous system, aiming to reduce anxiety, improve resilience, and optimize performance and longevity. Together, they dive into neuroanatomy, current limitations of electrical stimulation devices, the link between physiological and psychological stress, the risks of technology hijacking nervous systems (think: social media and AI), and the hopeful horizon of empowering neurotechnology.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Biology of Stress and the Vagus Nerve

• Nervous System Basics:

  • John explains that most people are chronically in "sympathetic" (fight-or-flight) mode, which is both highly profitable for tech/social media companies and detrimental to health.
  • The vagus nerve is critical in toggling between sympathetic and parasympathetic (rest-and-digest) states.
  • Many stress-related conditions (anxiety, PTSD) are dysfunctions in the body's ability to exit fight-or-flight states.
  • “Very rarely is it a choice kind of thing in that moment when someone's anxious or stressed. …It matters so much more what your hardware is and what your software is doing at that moment.” —John Hacker [10:02]

• Practical Implications:

  • Chronic sympathetic dominance leads to burnout, poor recovery, and can affect mental health and lifespan.
  • Early childhood and genetic factors shape vagal tone and stress reactivity.

2. Limitations of Existing Technology & The Zenbud Solution

• Why Most Devices Don’t Work Well:

  • Electrical vagus nerve stimulators—both implantable and non-invasive—struggle with precision and efficacy, especially non-invasive versions (e.g., "tasers" for the neck, wrist-worn vibrators).
  • “Electricity does not like to penetrate the skin. It’s not precise. …You can’t find the vagus nerve and you can’t properly innervate it.”—John Hacker [21:45]

• Why Focused Ultrasound is Different:

  • Ultrasound, unlike electricity, can precisely target the nerve through the auricular branch in the ear—enabling direct, non-invasive neural stimulation.
  • The Zenbud device applies this principle, using simple, repeatable ear-based application.

• Results & User Experience:

  • Takes 3–5 minutes to feel a shift from stress (sympathetic) to calm (parasympathetic).
  • Supported by peer-reviewed research showing up to 78% anxiety remission.
  • “I put the Zenbud on when I was having that panic attack and it brought me back to center both times.”—John Hacker [26:19]

3. Adapting and Strengthening the System (Hebbian Learning)

• Training Vagal Tone:

  • Regular use is compared to "working out" the vagus nerve—daily stimulation helps long-term stress resilience even without the device.
  • “If you use the Zenbud consistently, we can strengthen that system over time so you have less required need of using it… it’ll apply even when you’re not stimulating.” —John Hacker [28:05]

• Best Time for Use:

  • Ideal before bed or in the morning; can also be used acutely in times of stress or pre-event to improve performance.

4. Tech, Society, and the Future of Brain-Computer Interfaces (BCI)

• Current Tech and Social Media Concerns:

  • Social media algorithms exploit and perpetuate sympathetic dominance, especially in untrained minds (children/teens).
  • Adults can build a “firewall” with conscious practice, but unregulated tech creates generational neurobiological vulnerabilities.
  • “Algorithmic content literally used as a gateway key to activate dopamine centers… and directly activate your sympathetic system to get you to keep watching.” —John Hacker [00:00/29:03]

• Philosophy and Ethical Concerns:

  • Deep dive into the future risks of invasive BCIs, AI mergers, and loss of cognitive liberty.
  • “No one should be able to control your state but you. Yes, including hackers.” —Dave Asprey [51:26]

• Non-Invasive Approaches as the “Non-Dark Path”:

  • Ultrasound approaches like Zenbud's allow for conscious control and removal, preserving autonomy.

5. Applications Beyond Stress: Longevity, Inflammation, Brain Health

• Potential Uses:

  • Vagus stimulation has links not only to stress modulation but also to inflammation and neuroprotection, with potential benefits for longevity, traumatic brain injury (TBI), and recovery.
  • Current research on TBI shows vagus stimulation may reduce damaging secondary brain inflammation.
  • “There does seem early… to be a neuroprotective effect of activating the vagus nerve when it comes to the brain in particular.” —John Hacker [37:57]

• Practicality, Cost & Access:

  • Zenbud device is under $400, requires no subscription, easy to use and maintain, making it accessible for daily biohacking.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Autonomy:

  • “It's not okay to control someone else's [consciousness] without their consent. Anyone who tries to do that sounds like they're an enemy of humanity." —Dave Asprey [00:24/54:35]

• On Stress:

  • “It’s not excessively being there [sympathetic] that’s bad. Being there without your consent and being unable to leave, that would be the problem.” —Dave Asprey [12:18]

• On Tech Addiction:

  • “We are engaging with our technology in a way that our brains are not adapted for, and we haven’t had time as a species to adapt.” —John Hacker [29:03]

• On the Future of BCI:

  • “There is a world in which… we can be logarithmic, just like the AIs are being logarithmic. It requires... a non-invasive BCI to start. But it doesn't require merging with [AI], because I think that is going to be interacting with them, maybe one or two nodes in the network, fine. But merging is the last thing you really want if you want to keep human consciousness relevant and in existence.” —John Hacker [53:07]

• Comic Relief:

  • “I might be psychologically addicted to making fun of Lane Norton.” —Dave Asprey [42:02]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 | Impact of social media on sympathetic dominance; dopaminergic hijack | | 03:36 | Why brain upgrades/Kairos of consciousness and why Dave is intrigued by ultrasound | | 11:05 | Physiology of stress - most is not conscious choice | | 18:54 | Why Zenbud focused on the vagus nerve; John’s story and device origins | | 21:40 | Limitations of electric vagus nerve stimulators, precision of ultrasound | | 24:15 | Practical device use – exact spot, method, effect timeline | | 26:18 | First-hand use case for panic attack, clinical results | | 28:02 | Hebbian learning and training vagal tone – why consistent use strengthens regulation | | 29:03 | Societal stress, social media influence, tech adaptation failures | | 33:17 | Burnout from high-performing sympathetic state, importance of conscious state-switching | | 35:31 | Longevity, neuroinflammation, research gaps & directions | | 37:57 | TBI, secondary brain injury, preliminary neuroprotection findings | | 42:02 | Tech addiction (psychological vs physiological dependency), playful banter | | 48:26 | MedTech scandals, critical take on medical device industry | | 51:26 | Future BCIs: deep ethics, AI risk, non-invasive necessity, conscious autonomy | | 54:35 | Personal/cultural freedom: “enemy of humanity” |

Final Thoughts & Takeaways

• Zenbud’s Approach:
  Pioneers a more precise, affordable, and practical take on neural enhancement—empowering individuals without requiring implants or subscriptions.

• Empowerment through Science:
  Consistent neural training is as important as supplements, exercise, or diet for biohackers seeking resilience, focus, and long life.

• Ethical Tech:
  Autonomy over one’s consciousness and nervous system is the bedrock principle for the future of biohacking, especially as tech invades deeper.

• Accessible Upgrades:
  The new wave of biohacking brings foundational brain upgrades into daily life—democratizing access, not just for performance junkies but also for those with anxiety, PTSD, or seeking a stronger baseline.

How to Try/Buy Zenbud

• Cost: $400 (no subscription; extra pads needed only for frequent users)
• Discount Code: DAVE15 at zenbud.health
• Use: 3–5 minutes daily; before bed, morning, or during acute stress

“Ultimately I don’t have enough time to spend eight hours a day trying to extend my life… I want to have a happy, productive, fun, connected life.” —Dave Asprey [40:12]