Podcast Summary: The Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey

Episode Title: Identity Hacker: How to Completely Change Your Personality at ANY Age | Olga Khazan
Date: April 10, 2025
Host: Dave Asprey
Guest: Olga Khazan (Journalist at The Atlantic, Author of "Me, But Better")

Episode Overview

This episode explores the fascinating science of personality change with Olga Khazan, an acclaimed journalist and author who intentionally set out to change her own personality traits, including neuroticism and introversion. Host Dave Asprey and Olga dive into why most of us believe our personalities are fixed, how science shows otherwise, and actionable methods for reshaping who we are—at any age. They examine the roles of genetics, family, trauma, relationships, meditation, pharmacology, and even improv comedy in self-transformation.

Main Discussion Themes

1. Is Personality Fixed or Changeable?

• Dave Asprey introduces the question: "What if your personality isn't who you are? What if it's just who you practice being?... What if that's just a story?" (00:11)
• Olga Khazan asserts, "Anyone can change their own personality... Your personality is sort of not real. There's nothing about it that is set in stone." (01:20, 28:14)
• On average, personality changes more over a lifetime than happiness, health, or religion.

2. Olga’s Personal Journey of Change

• Olga started as extremely neurotic (9.3 out of 10) and “more neurotic than 94% of the population” (03:29).
• After interventions, she ranks close to the 40th percentile—“not bad for me.” (03:41)
• Her methods were evidence-based, not self-help: “I have been taking personality tests on this science based website... it will tell you where you rank... compared to everyone else on Earth.” (03:52)
• Life events like childbirth can cause personality regression, notably postpartum neuroticism spikes. “All my scores cratered because the postpartum period can be so rough... hormonally, psychologically, it's sleep deprivation.” (05:38)

3. Science-Backed Methods for Changing Personality

Habit Overhaul and Behavioral Activation

• Change is behavioral before emotional: “A lot of the personality change literature is basically behavioral activation... Go do something even if you don't really feel like doing it.” (31:05)
• Example: If you want to be less introverted, start participating in social activities, even if you feel anxious.

Gratitude and Meditation

• Gratitude journaling and loving-kindness meditation played a significant role in reducing neuroticism.
  • “For people like me who can really get down in the dumps, just writing a letter of gratitude... it’s a really great way to break out of that.” (11:16)
  • “A big part of doing that for me was loving kindness meditation... and it doesn't take very long, which is a bonus.” (14:15)

Mindfulness over Medication

• Olga tried pharmacological options (e.g., Lexapro, Xanax) but preferred cognitive and mindfulness interventions due to side effects. (37:04, 41:32)
• “You can numb yourself in a way that's not helpful... Xanax... was making me feel depressed.” (41:32)

Exposure, Empathy, and Rewiring

• Improv class as exposure therapy to reduce social anxiety and foster openness.
• Empathy and effortful reframing reduce anger: “Trying to have a generous interpretation of other people’s actions... that’s really what’s going to keep you from going from 0 to 60 on anger.” (21:22)
• Keeping boundaries is essential to avoid becoming a pushover while increasing agreeableness (34:41).

Key Insights and Notable Quotes

On the Myth of Fixed Personality

• “Most people feel stuck, not because change is impossible, but because they don’t know where to start. They mistake their habits for identity, their anxiety for truth, and their personality for destiny.” — Dave Asprey (00:43)

• “Our personalities are always changing. You can kind of decide what your personality is going to be like.” — Olga Khazan (28:14)

On Tools and Science of Change

• “Having a personal project or a big goal that's really important to you is a huge motivator for personality change.” — Olga Khazan (25:05)

• “The people who actually did those behaviors did change their personalities. And that's actually been replicated by a couple other research groups...” — Olga Khazan (46:41)

On Anxiety, Neuroticism, and Competing Narratives

• “Neuroticism for me was really defined by negative emotions... it kind of sucked a lot of the joy out of life.” — Olga Khazan (09:23)

• “People think they need anxiety to function... the anxiety is responsible for all of their success, that it helps them remember things... especially anxious people tend to think that.” — Olga Khazan (15:24)

• “Anxiety about anxiety can be the problem. And a lot of times... the fear of a feeling can sometimes be scarier and more disruptive than the anxiety itself.” — Olga Khazan (60:06)

On the Role of Genetics and Family

• “Most personality traits are about 30 to 50% genetic... You might have to skip an extra order of french fries... your body’s kind of naturally trying to be a certain weight. And it's the same with personality.” — Olga Khazan (13:35)

On Relationships and Environment

• Early careers and romantic relationships have outsized impacts on personality: “Young adulthood is when two important things happen: most people get their first job... and often fall in love... These have positive impacts, making us more agreeable, more conscientious, less neurotic.” (61:31)
• Choosing the right partner: “Pick someone who really fits you... not necessarily the hottest, funniest, or the richest.” (62:42)

On Personal Growth and Self-Love

• “I don't see it as a form of self-loathing or even dislike... It’s about self-love and about improving your life.” — Olga Khazan (51:04)

Memorable Moments

• Dave joking: “Did you just attack Scientology?... I'm not going to tell Tom Cruise, but just saying.” (04:16)
• Inventing "Adar" as autism radar (08:24), and a lighthearted discussion about personality traits among writers.

Noteworthy Timestamps

• 00:09 – Anyone can change their own personality.
• 03:29 – Olga's baseline neuroticism and her quantification.
• 05:38 – The impact of childbirth on personality traits.
• 10:31 – The science and practice of gratitude.
• 14:15 – Meditation as a tool to silence inner criticism.
• 16:15 – Olga’s quick fix for anxiety: deep breathing.
• 21:22 – Transitioning from anger via empathy and reframing.
• 28:14 – The plasticity of personality and ability to change repeatedly.
• 31:05 – Behavioral activation and 'just doing it' as a core method.
• 34:41 – Boundaries as a solution to avoid being a people pleaser.
• 37:04 – Medication’s role in personality; Olga’s experience with SSRIs.
• 41:32 – Downside of medications like Xanax for anxiety.
• 54:14 – Is it possible to strive and accept non-control? The Buddhist answer.
• 61:31 – Young adulthood as the best time for personality change.
• 66:45 – The role of trauma and the difficulty (and methods) of deep change.

Practical Takeaways

• Behavioral change starts with action, not waiting for feelings to catch up. Exposure and “behavioral activation” are vital.
• You can use gratitude journaling, loving-kindness meditation, and deep breathing for quick positive shifts in mood and perspective.
• Therapy, and even carefully used medication, can support change, but Olga saw the most sustainable effect through cognitive and mindfulness practices.
• Personality traits are heritable but not destiny; repeated actions and self-awareness drive evolution.
• Environment—including relationships, work, and even national/cultural narratives—profoundly shape our self-story and should be consciously chosen or reconsidered where possible.
• It's normal for personality to shift after life changes like having a child, starting a new job, or facing trauma. Accepting and adapting is key.
• Boundaries help maintain agreeableness without becoming a doormat.
• There is no endpoint—self-improvement is ongoing, but contentment can be found along the way.

Final Reflections

Both host and guest repeatedly return to the idea that personality is neither destiny nor a fixed label. Change requires effort, self-compassion, scientific curiosity, and the willingness to challenge inherited stories. As Dave concludes:
"You can actually change your personality. You don't have to be miserable or anxious or whatever, and you get to pick." (70:18)

For those wanting more practical frameworks—Olga’s book "Me, But Better" is highlighted as a science-backed, candid look at intentional transformation.

Recommended for anyone curious to break free from self-imposed limits or who wants to understand the real mechanics of personality transformation.