The Real Reason Your Face Is Aging So Fast : 1376

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey

Episode 1376: The Real Reason Your Face is Aging So Fast
Release Date: December 5, 2025
Host: Dave Asprey
Guest: Dr. Nayan Patel, PharmD (Oro Wellness)

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Overview

In this cutting-edge episode, Dave Asprey dives with Dr. Nayan Patel into the advanced science behind skin aging and rejuvenation. Focusing on copper tripeptide GHK-Cu and innovative topical delivery systems, the conversation is a "master class" in how to truly upgrade your skin and hair health from the inside out—far beyond superficial cosmetic fixes. The discussion also covers the pitfalls of common skincare ingredients, best protocols for real visible change, and the impact of essential trace minerals (copper, zinc) on mitochondrial health, gray hair, and skin repair.

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Key Topics and Insights

1. GHK-Cu: The Super Peptide for Skin & Hair

Timestamps: 00:53–05:01, 11:07–15:02, 32:45–36:15

• What is GHK?
  • GHK is a peptide fragment from albumin; when bound with copper, it becomes GHK-Cu, a regeneration signaller for tissue and skin repair.
  • Dr. Patel: “GHK by itself does not do anything for us. It has to combine with the copper for it to trigger this response.” (03:00)
• Downregulation with Age:
  • GHK-Cu levels are high in youth but drop as we age, contributing to slower repair.
• Direct Results:
  • In human trials, 80–90% of patients reported firmer, denser skin within a week. Fine wrinkles were reduced within four weeks, even in older age groups.
  • Dr. Patel: “For them to noticeably change in less than four weeks is kind of unheard of.” (00:14, 11:35)

2. Delivery Systems: Why Topical Works Best

Timestamps: 05:21–11:07, 19:09–22:32

• Limitations of Orals & Injections:
  • Oral peptides are broken down by gut enzymes.
  • IV injections can be ineffective due to rapid breakdown.
• Breakthrough Tech:
  • Dr. Patel’s polysaccharide (cyclodextrin) delivery system—originally developed for glutathione—enables fast, deep skin penetration of peptides within 30 seconds.
  • Asprey: “I firmly believe your polysaccharide delivery system is a fundamental thing we need to get things into the body.” (15:19)
• Purity Matters:
  • Higher-grade, injectable-purity peptides are used to avoid pushing contaminants into the skin.

3. Copper, Zinc, and Gray Hair: The Biohacker’s Dilemma

Timestamps: 09:39–13:58, 36:04–40:03

• Asprey’s Conundrum:
  • High zinc intake for mitochondrial function depletes copper, potentially accelerating gray hair.
  • Asprey: “Do I want weak mitochondria and brown hair, or strong mitochondria and gray hair?” (10:17)
• GHK-Cu Serum Benefits:
  • Restores copper locally, supporting hair pigment and thickness.
  • Especially impactful for women, whose hair loss is often driven by nutritional deficiency.
  • Dr. Patel: “For women, I think it’s going to have much, much better result than the guys would have.” (35:52)

4. Skincare Protocols: Application and Layering

Timestamps: 21:07–23:06, 25:26–26:36, 52:00–54:44

• Order Matters:
  • Dextrin-based (Oro) serums go on first, before any other topical products.
  • Ideal order: Citrine (Vitamin C) → Copper Tripeptide (GHK-Cu) → Moisturizer/cream.
  • Using other products first may block or reduce absorption.
• Recommended “Upgrade” Protocol:
  • For rapid results: 10–12 drops of GHK-Cu serum, 2-3x daily to face/neck; for 4–6 weeks.
  • Maintenance: 5–10 drops once or twice daily.
• Affordable and Safe:
  • $600 protocol for two months (~equivalent to a single round of Botox).
  • No known contraindications for topical use; avoid injectables during pregnancy.

5. Other Ingredients and Practices

Timestamps: 18:14–21:07, 26:37–27:12, 27:29–29:48, 30:09–31:59

• Vitamin C Topicals:
  • Potent collagen stimulator, not just an antioxidant.
  • Oro sources ultra-pure, tapioca-based Vitamin C.
• Retinoids:
  • Not recommended; cause excessive cell turnover, risk skin thinning.
• Creativity in Skincare:
  • Stacking with lasers, microneedling, etc.—GHK is compatible, but microneedling redundant.
• Snail/Animal Proteins:
  • Molecules are too large to penetrate the skin effectively (outside of cyclodextrin tech).

6. Safety, Sourcing, and Philosophy

Timestamps: 16:04–18:14, 28:16–29:48, 56:24–57:09

• Purity Is Paramount:
  • Dr. Patel uses only injectable-grade ingredients due to powerful delivery technology.
  • DIY or poorly sourced products risk pushing mold, heavy metals, or bacteria into the skin.
• Skin as a Window:
  • Quality of skin health reflects liver and metabolic function.
  • Asprey: “Skin is the largest organ in the body. Taking care of your skin is a really good long-term plan.” (23:06)
• Life Philosophy:
  • Minimal routines, maximal effect.
  • Dr. Patel: “If I can put everything into one serum, I’ll do that in a heartbeat.” (26:26)
  • Asprey: “You’re not really a skincare brand. You’re a pharmaceutical delivery system brand that also does skincare.” (55:20)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trial Results:
  “Within the first week, they saw firmness and density improving in almost 80 to 90%. They also saw a reduction in the fine wrinkles.”
  —Dr. Nayan Patel (00:00)

• On Peptides & Age:
  “GHK is a signal of protein breakdown then… When the body sees that, it says, I need to make more skin and hair and collagen and connective tissue.”
  —Dave Asprey (03:16)

• On Topical Safety:
  “If I make the skin permeable to all these ingredients, what else is going inside?”
  —Dr. Patel (16:25)

• On Gray Hair & Copper:
  “My energy is better than ever. So I’m in this weird limbo—I need the copper. And you have the most effective way to get copper into my hair and my skin that I think exists.”
  —Dave Asprey (13:27)

• On Modern Skincare:
  “Most people have either catalase or SOD issues where they have too much hydrogen peroxide. That’s what they’re causing the grayish of the hair.”
  —Dr. Patel (12:20)

• On Routine Simplicity:
  “If you’re gonna live to 180, you can’t have too many routines that you cannot fulfill yourself for rest of your life.”
  —Dr. Patel (25:26)

• On Purity in Products:
  “With our technology, the way we are driving these products inside your skin, I cannot use topical grade, cosmetic grade materials.”
  —Dr. Patel (29:02)

• On Cost & Value:
  “That’s pretty much what Botox costs. Actually less … But this is non-toxic.”
  —Dave Asprey (55:08)

• On Biohacking Mindset:
  “You don’t think about this like skin people. You think about this like pharmacist people. It’s cool.”
  —Dave Asprey (55:20)

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Essential Protocols and "How-To" (Quick Guide)

GHK-Cu Skin Density Protocol

• Dosage: 10–12 drops, 2-3x/day on face and neck.
• Duration: 4-6 weeks for visible results.
• Product: Use Oro Copper Tripeptide serum, injectable-grade.

Maintenance Protocol

• Dosage: 5–10 drops, 1–2x/day.
• Application order:
  1. Dextrin-based serum (GHK, Citrine Vit. C)
  2. Follow with creams/moisturizer

Stacking with Procedures

• Laser, microneedling: Pre-treat with GHK or glutathione for better results and faster healing.

Best for Whom?

• Both men and women (especially effective for women’s hair issues).
• Any age group; clinical trial success up to age 77.

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Additional Insights

• Topical glutathione & vitamin C both support healthy skin, but GHK-Cu is the main tool for visible anti-aging.
• Copper deficiency is on the rise due to widespread zinc supplementation.
• No evidence for GHK-Cu causing hyperpigmentation or adverse skin reactions; injectables not recommended during pregnancy out of caution.
• Biohacking philosophy: Minimal routine, maximal, data-backed effect.

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Conclusion

This episode is a deep-dive into real, science-driven skincare and anti-aging with actionable protocols for biohackers and anyone serious about longevity. Dr. Nayan Patel’s work is pushing beyond cosmetic improvements, delivering true "human upgrade" protocols—backed by data and bioavailability. Dave Asprey’s real-world use and no-BS approach ground the conversation for DIY experimenters and science-geeks alike.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction to GHK & Skin Science – 00:53–05:01
• Delivery System Deep Dive – 05:21–11:07
• Hair, Copper, and Gray – 09:39–13:58
• Protocol Details & Application – 21:07–23:06; 52:00–54:44
• Product Safety & Sourcing – 16:04–18:14; 29:02–29:48
• Retinoids, Peptide Sourcing – 26:36–27:12; 27:29–29:48
• Routine Simplicity & Longevity – 25:26–26:26
• Final Protocol Recommendations – 52:00–54:44

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For More:

auroWellness.com
Discount code: DAVE10 (as mentioned)

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This summary is for educational purposes and does not constitute medical advice. Always consult your healthcare provider before starting new regimens.

Transcript

[A]

So we did some human trial. And so within the first week, they saw firmness and density improving in almost 80 to 90%. They also saw a reduction in the fine wrinkles. The technology does all the work. It takes 30 seconds.

[B]

That's incredible.

[A]

Keep in mind, the patients that we were looking at it were anywhere from 33 age to 77 age group. So if you're 50 or 60 and above, you know, you have a lot of wrinkles. And for them to noticeably change in less than four weeks is kind of unheard of. I put my face in there and the lady goes, oh, there's not a single sun damaged spot on the whole face. It's going to trap all the nutrients for the women. So for women, I think it's going to have much, much better result than the guys with it. Wow. It is not just superficially making it look better, it is actually repairing the skin itself.

[B]

You're listening to the Human upgrade with Dave Asprey.

Let's talk about peptides. Except, well, there's 500 different peptides that you could use, and I've written a whole big longevity book about those. So let's talk about one peptide that maybe is the most famous one of all. And everyone's listening, going, is he talking about BPC1 5? No, it's called copper tripeptide, or GHK. And this was sort of at the front and center of the collagen movement that I hope to start with bulletproof here, because there is a tripeptide, which means three molecules stuck together that's inside collagen. But then there's this copper GHK thing that is now in all of the skincare serums I've written about actually injecting it intravenously, which I do not recommend, guys, how it's higher when people are young and it drops with time. So now it's in everything. But I wanted to bring you on this time, your third time, Nayan, to talk about ghk, to do kind of a master class on how you use this peptide specifically for hair and skin and maybe some other things.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

All right, tell me about ghk.

[A]

What's the deal with that? Well, if you think about ghk, it's something that a body doesn't manufacture, ghk, but it's a fragment of an albumin. So it's like when the albumin gets broken down into these small peptides. One of the peptides is ghk, and the body holds onto the GHK combines with the copper inside your Blood and become this active component that is doing all those tissue repairs and inflammations and all. It's helping the body. Does the repair work?

[B]

How does the body get ghk?

[A]

So GHK is a fragment of an albumin.

[B]

Does that mean we're making the albumin and breaking it down or we're eating it?

[A]

We are. When the album gets broken down, one of the byproduct is ghk.

[B]

Got it. So we eat some protein and we eat some copper. Hopefully, that we can absorb. Hopefully. Which is a problem. Right. And if we do all that stuff right, we make albumin. I mean, albumin breaks down with enzymes in the body, and then there's some GHK leftover. That's right. Has a beneficial effect.

[A]

How? It's the combination. It's the. It's a signaling molecule with. With the copper. GHK by itself does not do anything for us. It has to combine with the copper for it to trigger this response. And the trigger response comes into each and every cells.

[B]

Okay, so GHK is a signal of protein breakdown then. And when the body sees that, it says, I need to make more skin and hair and collagen and connective tissue.

[A]

Well, it's the skin, and the hair is the easier part because you're physically seeing that. What you're not seeing is all the repair that's happening inside your body for your fascia. Exactly. That's the most important part. But if I talk about a fascia, then nobody wants to buy my product because I don't see any benefits right away.

[B]

Yeah, unless you don't want chronic pain and you want to live a long time, then your fascia as an information plane and a movement facilitator is critically important. Right?

[A]

Exactly. It's the most important thing. But people don't want to talk about those kinds of people. People don't want to. If there's joint pain, hey, can I just rub on some Icy Hot or one of those products that can take the pain away, but it's not rebuilding the cartilage and rebuilding all the soft tissues over there. So GHK is very critical for all those components to rebuilding from body inside out.

[B]

So it turns out then that maybe BPC157, which is the famous heal really fast peptide that a lot of us have talked about, maybe that isn't nearly as useful if you don't have GHK present. And BPC has limited effects on hair and skin. Skin, if any. Right.

[A]

Exactly. BBC is one of those peptides that produce Inside your gut. And it's great for gut healing if. Maybe. But if you look, talking about the whole body or skin being the largest organ in humans, it needs a lot more than just BBC157. I don't think BBC157 has any effect on skin at all. With the GHK copper, it does have skin benefits, but more importantly, it is. It is not just superficially look making it look better, it is actually repairing.

[B]

The skin itself, even at the deeper layers.

[A]

At the deeper layers. And that's what we want.

[B]

What happens if you eat ghk?

[A]

I don't know. I would assume that if you take ghk, it's going to get broken down by the gut. Yeah.

[B]

The enzymes in the gut should break it down.

[A]

Break it down.

[B]

Most peptides aren't that orally active.

[A]

Yeah. And so that's what I'm guessing. Again, I do not have any studies to back it up as of yet, but that's what I'm guessing is what's happening.

[B]

All right, well, you're well known, at least in this community, because you invented a new way to get almost anything in through the skin. Lots of followers understand liposomes because I've been in biohacking since day one. And liposomes are these little balls of fat that allow you to encapsulate some compound and bring it in. You can take them orally, you can use them topically, but you do something totally different that is far, far more powerful. Tell me about that.

[A]

So polysaccharides, sugar molecules is what we have found out is a new delivery system. Now, liposomes, please. It's an amazing system. Yeah, it works. It's this really good system. I don't think there's a system for peptides. And that's what I want to come. So my first product was the glutathione, the GSH peptide. And it just does wonders. And so, based on that technology, that success, we are now looking at all the different peptides right now, the sugar molecules. The best part of sugar molecules is that the body needs sugar, but this.

[B]

Is a different kind of sugar. This isn't just standard glucose that people eat.

[A]

No, no, no. These are polysaccharides. The scientific term is cyclo is dextrins. Cyclo is a cyclic form of dextrins. There are cluster forms of dextrin. There's all different types of dextrin molecules. Some are completely inert and couple of them are toxic. And FDA has regulations on those as well. But some of them, most of them are completely inert and have no concerns whatsoever.

[B]

And so you found a unique form. And when you bind that to a molecule like glutathione, you showed in the last episode that you can take some of your gluterol and it smells a little bit like sulfur, which is fine. So does the liposomal form. But you put it on and 30 seconds later it's absorbed. And you can wash off whatever's left if you want to, maybe a minute, but it's a very short period of time. And I just do it like on my thorax here. And what happens then is the levels inside the cells go up way more than they would with liposomes or even an iv.

[A]

Well, yeah, that was the first thing. Right.

[B]

So we know it works.

[A]

We know it works. There's some studies that have been done that have shown that actually even the intravenous form of glutathione was getting broken down by the human body and only cysteine was getting absorbed.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

And then cysteine was being used to produce own endogenous form of chlorothione. And so yes, it does they're work. But we have to know how it works and why it works. Because if we know the how and the why, we can target systems and medications on how it's supposed to do. But when I found out that this was actually getting broken down and the body's just using absorbing cysteine and cysteine is a rate limiting step of this production, I said, okay, if that's the case, if I give you other molecule where the enzymes are not going to be the rate of any step, then we're just injecting some peptides that may not be doing any work for us. And so that was the concern that I had. Right. Cysteine is something that we don't consume in our diet very heavily. So it was easy to give you cysteine type product and your body makes glutathione.

[B]

Yeah. And guys, if you're listening, you know, glutathione is critically important for your liver and there's all kinds of reasons you want to take it. The problem is we used to just take NAC and acetylcysteine, but it's rate limited and it increases your body's ability to make it. And what we're finding out is that even the IV glutathione and the liposomal glutathione has limited effectiveness, but is still better than just nac, we think. But the form that you invented, because you're a pharmacologist, is something that gets into the cells directly without having to be broken down into cysteine. So that was kind of the big pharmacist test about, does this polysaccharide thing you have actually work? And it is superior to anything. So then I'm like, what else can we put in the body? And we've been talking ever since our first interview a couple years ago, and at the biohacking conference.

[A]

What can we do?

[B]

What can we do? I'm like, give me some peptides. Give me some peptides. And you're a total pro at peptides. You've been doing them for 20 years, right?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So you sent me some sort of Jose. I think it was like one of those white label printer things, GHK serum. And this is the first production bottle of it, right?

[A]

Yes, the very first one.

[B]

So this is the RO Copper tripeptide serum. And it looks kind of like a blue pearl when you use it. I don't even know how this bottle works, because I have the. The prototype bottles you sent me. There we go. It's a dropper kind of thing. And I've been putting it specifically on my hair, and I'm noticing a color shift that it's less gray than it has been. And you could say, Dave, you're a longevity guy. Hair's not supposed to go gray. There's multiple reasons it goes gray, and one of them is loss of copper. And I have an issue where genetically, I need a ton of zinc. If I don't take enough zinc, then my mitochondria don't work. And if you take lots of zinc, it pushes copper out. You can't absorb copper. So I'm like, do I want weak mitochondria and brown hair, or do I want strong mitochondria and gray hair because I'm zinc deficient? You have a delivery system that gets the copper back where it goes that bypasses all the zinc in my gut. So I'm super stoked on this. But, okay, so for hair that's color of hair, and this may be a way for some types of gray to go away, but there's other ones that are caused by sod or lack of sod, and it's hydrogen peroxide. And there's some genetics. There's all sorts of reasons. There's like, three reasons, but there's also, like, a thickening of hair. And just to be clear, guys, I also use OS1, which just came out. I'm seeing changes from that, I'm also using this before the OS one, So I think this is making a big difference. What have you seen in the experiments you've done with the copper tripeptide oro stuff?

[A]

So we did some human trials. Like everything else, before I launched any products, I had to do human trials to see what the heck am I going to get out of this thing. Right. And so within the first week, first week, they saw firmness and density improved in almost 80, 90% of the patients.

[B]

Just from putting it on their face?

[A]

Just from putting in the face. That's the first thing they noticed. Not the hair thing.

[B]

I couldn't handle my face too.

[A]

Hair is so subjective things. But by the end of the fourth week, the same people, besides those two things, they also saw a reduction in the fine wrinkles and fine lines and wrinkles. And this is. This has only been four weeks. Now, keep in mind, the patients that we were looking at it were anywhere from 33 age to 77 age group. So if you have 50 or 60 and above, you know, you have a lot of wrinkles. And for them to noticeably change in less than four weeks is kind of unheard of. Unless you take something like injections and things like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So this was very, very powerful. But going back to ghk, the reason this becomes more effective is because if it's produced from albumin, which is produced in the liver, if they take glutathione to cleanse the liver out, albumin gets better. The GHK works better.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

But in your case, I did not know that you take so much zinc, and zinc does deplete copper. So if that's the case, there's a bigger issue for you. But most people don't have copper deficiency. Most people have either catalase or superoxide disputase issues where they have too much hydrogen peroxide. That's what they're causing. The.

Grayish of the hair.

[B]

Yeah, the gray hair from too much hydrogen peroxide and inability to turn it off. So I thought maybe that's my issue. This was years ago and I started getting some gray. So I took a bunch of sod, which is the enzyme that turns off hydrogen peroxide. Unfortunately, antioxidants, but especially that one, they turn off oxidation. Oh, and the engine of life is based on oxidation.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So this is your mitochondria do. So when I took sodium, like, I thought I had chronic fatigue before, because I did, but this was worse. It was like running on 10% of my energy. Just first three days when I Took a couple sod caps. So I'm like, all right, I'm not deficient in antioxidants. I might be deficient in oxidation back then. So I don't think my gray hair was contributed to by that. And it got worse during COVID because I cranked up my zinc because my genetic testing showed I was deficient. And my energy is better than ever. So I'm in this weird limbo. I need the copper. And you have the most effective way to get copper into my hair and my skin that I think exists. And of course, it helps with wrinkles and it probably helps with hair, But I'm happy I get that zinc and I'm happy to get that copper because of the zinc issue. And I do some other oral copper now too. But this is a new thing, and I felt the difference, and I see the difference.

[A]

So that's what happened to me personally. I started using this in January myself early this year, and I used it for about four or five weeks or six weeks in a row. And I was getting. I was in Miami awards. They would give me an award for some technology innovation. So they gave me an award for that. So I was there, and of course they stick me in this photo booth. I said, hey, Dr. Patel, let me check your. Let me see. Do you use any sunscreen? I said, I don't use any sunscreen or sunblock ever in my life.

[B]

Oh, oh, you kind of do have brown skin. You have it built in. It's not fair.

[A]

Exactly. So let me check out. I'm sure you have some sun damage. I'm from California, so I'm sun all the time. I said, okay, let me. Let's check it out. I put my face in there. And the lady goes, oh, there's not a single sun damaged spot on the whole face. Not even one. One little prickly. Right. A lot of clogged pores, which is I. I understand, because I only use. I don't use any soap.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. You know, we're go.

[A]

But the thing is, I know it's a zero sun damage spot. And that's when I realized that I only use for six weeks. Wow. And this thing changed the morphology completely.

[B]

That's incredible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So if you're concerned. Listening. Am I selling this? I guess.

You are one of the smartest guys I've met when it comes to delivery systems. Topically, I'd say the smartest. And you've been doing this for 25, 30 years.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And so we can go so deep on these nerdy Conversations. And this isn't very nerdy compared to when we were sitting at the table beforehand. And I firmly believe that your polysaccharide delivery system is a fundamental thing that we need to get things into the body so we can just get the results we want. So the skin is more permeable, and it's a better delivery system than pills for a lot of things. And you proved it with glutathione, with glutateryl, your kind of hero product, and now you're proving it with these other compounds that you're putting in. So I only talk about stuff that I see and I believe and that I use. And since I got to be a beta tester on this stuff and we talked about it over the kitchen table a long time ago.

I think I am selling it. Just in the point that I want you to know that this technology is available, but I also have some concerns. One of the concerns is that if our skin is that permeable, what happens when people put just crappy sunscreen on us? Like, talk about that.

[A]

Oh, boy. Thanks for bringing this point up, because that's what my concerns are.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

When I make a product and it's going through your skin, I'm thinking about, okay, if. If I'm making the skin. Skin permeable to all these ingredients, what else is going inside?

[B]

Yeah, it's like a skin iv, Skin iv.

[A]

And that's what, to me, is more concerning than giving you a product, because I have to make sure there is no impurities in there. Sourcing of. Sourcing of raw material is so difficult for us because we want to make sure that there is no mold. Mold. There's no bacteria. There's no pyrogens. There is no heavy metals, because anything that's in that product is going to go in. And so, to me, that was the biggest thing. And you're absolutely right. How much stuff are we blathering on our body that we don't need to have it?

[B]

And we know with some of the studies on sunscreen that it's entering the blood within an hour. These ingredients that are. They cause cancer. Almost like the old movie Idiocracy, where people are buying sunscreen that warns that it causes cancer is actually real. They're doing that. So I'm very careful at what I put on my skin. My general rule is don't put it on unless I would eat it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Is there anything in your oral formulations that I wouldn't eat?

[A]

No. I'll go one step ahead. I'll Eat certain things that I will, but I still want to put them on my skin. Because your gut can literally digest a lot of crap. It can. But your skin becomes very permeable to anything and everything. Wow. So to me, I'm very careful about my skin cares. Very, very careful. Because plus the technology is such that it is actually getting inside your skin cells. So that way we have to be very careful on how we do that part. Okay, so I can talk about the ingredients.

[B]

Yeah, let's talk about what's actually in there. Because a lot of people like, oh, it's gluten free. I'm like, well, it's not cyanide free, so who cares about the gluten? So your products are super clean. But what's in them?

[A]

So for example, like, let's look at one of the skincare which is, I have a vitamin C product, for example. So vitamin C, ascorbic acid is what we use. Which is the strongest form of vitamin C is not those pseudo vitamin C like what you eat in the foods. It's not the same. This is pure ascorbic acid. Now, ascorbic acid in America comes from corn.

[B]

Corn and black mold.

[A]

Well, that's all molded. Right. And so I can have that for my consumers. I cannot have that part. So we had to source an injectable grade material from tapioca, which is completely free of metals, pyrogens, mold.

[B]

Wow. So this is actually very hard to find. I have formulated ascorbic acid products. It's almost impossible to get clean vitamin.

[A]

C. It's very hard.

[B]

And I, I don't recommend orally high dose vitamin C because of oxalate, but you need some vitamin C in order to be healthy. You just don't need too much. And using it topically, you see huge results from it. What does vitamin C do to the skin different from your GHK product?

[A]

So vitamin C is a stimulant. It's not an antioxidant. People say vitamin C is an antioxidant. I said chemically it's not true. Wow.

[B]

Linus Pauling is so mad right now.

[A]

No, he's not mad. No, he's not mad. But he did put us on the right path right now. Right. Because what he did was at a low concentration. Vitamin C is actually regenerating oxygen oxidize glutathione in your body. And so that's how it's working as an antioxidant. But in reality, it's a stimulant. And what it stimulates is Collagen production under your skin. Oh, wow, right.

[B]

So you need it in your skin maybe more than in your kidneys.

[A]

Exactly. And that's why if you take the topic of vitamin C that we have created, you take any supplements ever because it gives you vitamin C. Yeah, for vitamin C. Because you get.

Because you get all the stuff from in there and its plus is free of all this junk.

[B]

You're confusing the hell out of me right now. I'm sorry. Because you send me these research bottles ahead of time so I know what they look like. And then you come out with beautiful packaging and like this doesn't look like the stuff on my bathroom counter because I got it ahead of time. So it's the orange one, citrine. But it looks like this. But mine does look like this because I got the early version. So this is vitamin C and glutathione combined.

[A]

Well, this one is vitamin C. Glutathione is there in every one of them because that's how we used to get the Dexon's technology activated.

[B]

So interesting. So you have to have a little bit of glutathione to kind of get the cell like ooh, that's mine. And then the dextrin helps to get the ingredient in.

[A]

That's it. That's it.

[B]

Is what super cool. So this, this is what order would I.

[A]

And this is 25%. If you don't realize vitamin C is very, very strong. But the way the technology works, it has been clinically proven to be non irritating and non comedogenic and it's like you put it on and just disappears.

[B]

So I have a question about this. I have the ghk, I have the non beautiful bottle. The one, the R and D version.

[A]

I don't know how did you get it?

[B]

But yeah, well, you know, I was.

[A]

Part of the test.

[B]

Okay. So I have the copper tripeptide which I've been using and I have your citrine, the vitamin C formula. I don't know which one to use first.

[A]

Okay, so all the serums goes first, either vitamin C or glutathione or whatever. This one, the copper peptide goes in between the second product because now is just enhancing some of.

[B]

Because this is a serum, then peptide.

[A]

Serum, then peptides.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then the cream goes over if it's. If in the creams are okay.

[B]

And just in the interest of full transparency here, I use a couple of different creams.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

So I use OS1, I use use the young goose and sometimes I use A couple other ones. I don't use the same ones every day. But the copper tripeptide, since I first got it, I'm like, this stuff is magic. So now I use citrine first, then copper tripeptide. And I'm weird because I'm a biohacker and people send me. Although I have like five other bottles of serums I don't use that often. Is there any harm of just like, okay, I'm going to put on the dextrin based stuff from Oro and then I put on whatever else I've got. Does it matter the order if I just have a lot of stuff?

[A]

Yes, it does.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The dextrin product goes first.

[B]

Dextrin first.

[A]

Dextrin first. Because I'm not sure what the other products have in there.

[B]

Okay. That might block it.

[A]

That, no, if there is something in there that doesn't, doesn't need to go inside your skin. This may push it in.

[B]

Oh, okay, got it.

[A]

This may push it in.

[B]

So my oil of Olay, you don't recommend that? I'm kidding. I don't use that stuff. Sorry. Oil, no.

[A]

But what we always want to make sure that anything that we use my serums goes first, then we can add anything else on top of it. I'm okay with it.

[B]

Got it. And so you could be listening to this and if you're a woman, you're like, oh my God, that's so interesting. If you're a guy, you're like, Dave is clearly gay. And I'm just going to tell you, actually, no, I am planning to live to 180 and when I'm 180, I would still like to be dating or in a relationship where I'm very attractive. So I just think taking care of your skin is a really good long term plan. It is the largest organ in the body. And I'm also lazy and I probably wouldn't do all of this if I didn't get all the stuff that just magically arrives. But I would do your copper tripeptide a hundred percent. And I would do the vitamin C and probably a couple other things. But most guys, it's like you wash your face once a day and you put on one and I'm going to say you probably should put on two things and maybe ought to be these two. Maybe you want to put on the. You have a cream as well, right? What's the cream that you use?

[A]

So cream is similar things. What we did was we had to take all the ingredients that we needed and had to Put them in some in serum and some in the creams. And like you, I'm the same guy, I'm the same thing. I don't like to put too much products on my face. For 50 years I didn't put anything and then all of a sudden I started putting glue on my face. And next thing I put a GHK copper on my face. And the face cream that I created, this one, this one is particular with CoQ10 and DMA and Carnosine. And it's just a constant, is it's a bipeptide, it's a two amino acid chain peptide. It's a simple stuff. Anything is simple and good. I'll make it for you guys.

[B]

So I'm a old school longevity guy, right? And a lot of younger biohackers have probably not even heard of DMAE. But if you go back to the 90s and maybe a little bit of the early aughts, DMAE was really, really a powerful longevity molecule and it just kind of lost its cool factor even though it's really efficacious. And Coq 10, I think everybody knows about that. It's necessary, you get that and your skin cells are going to work better. And then carnosine, it really helps with cross linking of collagen. So this is a potent set of ingredients. So that's one thing. Every time we get to nerd out. Your selection of ingredients is 10 out of 10 every time. And then you're saying, well why would I just put that on my skin when I could make it like an IV with all this tech? So I love our conversations because you don't screw around with your formulations. It's really impressive and I don't know say that lightly.

[A]

I want to make life simple for everybody. As if you're going to live to 180. You can have too many routines that you cannot fulfill yourself for rest of your life.

[B]

You're going to make Brian Johnson mad. Don't say that.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

Just kidding, Brian.

[A]

Yeah, but you know what? It's. You want to have less. You want to have less so you can enjoy life better, right? And so my job is that if I can put everything into one, I'll do that in a heartbeat.

[B]

Why don't we mix your copper GHK and, and the other and the vitamin C? Can't they go in the same serum?

[A]

It can, it can.

[B]

I pay twice as much to use less.

[A]

Eventually that might be the choice that I'll make it like the one Serum.

[B]

To rule them all.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. I don't know if that's gonna happen.

[B]

But it costs like 300 bucks.

[A]

But cost is not the problem.

[B]

I would pay it.

[A]

Yeah, people pay the price. But what people do not want is a routine that takes them five hours to do. Yeah, right.

[B]

I would pay more to use less things.

[A]

Exactly. And so my goal is to create less and less and less as possible, but make it more impactful.

[B]

Oh, that's cool. All right, so we're aligned on that. And I truly appreciate just the way you think about this. I want to ask some more detailed skin care questions.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So we can really teach people more about copper tripeptide and all that. What about retinoids or retinol and copper tripeptide? Are they safe to use together?

[A]

So I personally do not like retinols or retinoids products in combination with the ghq. Actually, I don't write those retinoid products at all. They're just a little too toxic. The cell turnover is much, much faster than in the normal cell turnovers. I need the cell turnover at a slower pace Anyways, as you get older, you need that layer to protect your skin.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So that's one of the reasons.

[B]

So you get younger looking skin because you get rapid turnover from retinols, but then you're probably going to wear the skin out.

[A]

Basically the skin gets thinner as you get older because of that. And if it gets thinner and it gets more blemishes, guess what? They prescribe you prescription retinoids now make it even faster. And so I see the vicious cycle over there. That that may not be the right option for a lot of my consumers. Okay.

[B]

Is there a difference in the type of GHK you can get? I've seen some that's really cheap online. I've seen a lot that doesn't look like I would want to inject it. I've seen some that's injectable that I have injected. How do you know what's a good ghk and how do you pick yours?

[A]

So ghk again, it's a. It's a tripeptide and it's. They make different grades, but they don't have food grade. But they do have a topical grade and they have an injectable grade. Okay. Now the only difference between those two grades is the topical because they assume that nothing is going to go through your skin. So they make it not that pure. Like they have mold in there, they have some bacterias in there, pyrogens in There, which is, on a normal sense, doesn't matter to you at all. And. And it's not 99, 100% pure. It's probably 97, 98% pure, which is not so bad, but still pretty good.

[B]

Okay, so topical GHK has 2% impurities in it.

[A]

1 to 2%. Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Injectables are basically metal free, pyrogen free. Maybe not free, but they are very 0.00,000. It's very, very small amount. They're free of bacterias and molds because we have to test them out in the lab. If anything grows in that, we can use it, right?

[B]

Yeah. Because it will grow in your bottle, right?

[A]

Well, it will grow when you inject them. Right. And so those are the different grades. And the cost difference is like 4x. If something costs you, let's say 10 bucks, the other one would cost you 40 bucks. That's a 4x price indifference. With our technology, the way we are driving these products inside your skin, I cannot use topical grade, cosmetic grade materials.

[B]

So you're spending four times more on injection grade raw materials.

[A]

I have to.

[B]

It's because your technology is like injecting it on skin.

[A]

I have to. I have to.

[B]

That's important. And guys, this isn't the cheapest skin care stuff you'll ever see. And that's why, because it's so potent and I respect that you're going for purity because you could make a product that would work with your technology using topical grade. It would just drive 2% impurities in like you injected them, which.

[A]

Exactly. And just for the pricing issue, and it says it is expensive, but at the same time, to bring the cost down, we brought the whole manufacturing in house.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

We brought the whole technology in house. So we can go from straight to manufacturing to the consumers with no middleman.

[B]

That helps a lot.

[A]

So that did help a lot. Otherwise, this product will be basically unbearably expensive. Wow.

[B]

And as it is compared to Botox and compared to half the stuff that people buy, it's not expensive. But it's also not a $25 jar of. Of facial goop, right? That's right.

[A]

Nothing wrong with the goop.

[B]

But you ever see like, Korean snail serums for the face? Like snail juice?

[A]

Yep. What?

[B]

What is that a good thing? What is that?

[A]

You know, the K Beauty is so popular right now. They have all kinds of animal proteins that they've been using for their face, and a simple molecule like GHK or glutathione, which is only three Amino acids is impossible to get into your skin. What happens if there's a 15, 20, 50, or 100amino acid chain peptides? It will never get through your skin.

[B]

You know what I like to do sometimes I feel like I don't really want to do curls. I just get a rib eye and I just tape it to my arm. And then I know it's going to absorb because I mean. Okay, it's the same idea, right?

[A]

Same idea. And so I know it's snail oil. In my age, they used to call snake oil. That was snail oil now.

[B]

Yes, snail oil. There we go. I mean, maybe there's some polysaccharides in the mucus from snails, but I don't really. I'm not into that. Yeah, it seems kind of gross. Okay. Not that I wouldn't. If it was proven to work. There's that exactly.

[A]

If it's proven to work, then it's okay.

[B]

But I will admit that a long time ago, I met this lady in Bellingham. She was Asian and she had really, really good skin and she was 80 or something. And she said, oh, all I do, I think it was at like a GNC or somewhere. And she says, all I do is I wash my face with shampoo every day because I don't want to strip the oils. And then I put this, this snail goop on my face. So I ordered some and I used it a few times. Like, this is just gross. And I never used it. So I'm willing to. I have tried that, but I'm not. I just don't think it's likely to work. So maybe, maybe it's my ego, maybe it's our egos, but your scientific view is that the molecules are too big to get in. And, you know, because you studied water channels in the skin and you develop something that gets in. So I'm going to go with, as.

[A]

I said, we only have three or four or five amino acid chain peptides only. We have not worked with anything bigger than that yet.

[B]

You can't put big molecules in right now.

[A]

Not yet.

[B]

Okay. And you'll probably get that tech going eventually. I mean, you're. Aura Wellness is kind of like a Tesla or a SpaceX kind of a thing for the scan. You're really approaching this technically, and you're going and doing it in a way that no one's done before. It's kind of cool.

[A]

Well, that's why. Because I'm a pharmacist and my training is not a business. My training is treating products that I would use for myself and for my family first.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so I'm taking this in a completely different approach. I said, hey, I want to live to 180 like you, but if I want to live to 180, I need tools in my bags that can take me there.

[B]

Yeah, no kidding, right? Yeah.

[A]

And we know the tools that are pharmaceutical tools are not going to get you there.

[B]

Now you look like you're not an expert in hair.

[A]

No, I'm not.

[B]

If you're listening to the audio, there might be a lack of hair on Nayan's head.

But you have looked at research on GHK and hair thickness, hair growth. What have you found?

[A]

I mean, the research is. Is compelling. Yeah, it's overwhelming. Compelling is strong. That GHK is absolutely great for boosting your hair follicle. Again, maybe I'm point of no return. I don't. But I'm not given a hope yet. So I haven't been using for about eight to nine months right now. I'm focusing on different formula right now, like you suggested me earlier. I know we collaborated something else in the past. And so I'm making some products in my lab and I'm testing myself out because I can't go worse than what I've already am right now.

[B]

So if you can restore your hair, you're like me. I'm the worst case to be healthy as a 300 pound computer hacker with chronic fatigue. Right. So if I can do this and if you can, can grow hair. Similar. Similar slope of the curve. Hard to do.

[A]

It is impossible to do on myself, but I am. I'm still working on it right now.

[B]

Let's do it. You know what they have? They have those bowling ball washers. You seen those things? I think we need to get one of those and just soak it with your formulas. Almost every morning you stick your head in there, it's just gonna like, like rub them in really hard for you so you don't have to spend the time rubbing it in.

[A]

Well, the thing is that the technology does all the work. It takes 30 seconds, you see. Okay.

[B]

It's not that much, you know, you don't need to.

[A]

I don't need to do that.

[B]

The real question behind this is like scrubbing into my scalp doesn't do anything. If I just put the drops on and rub it a bit.

[A]

That's it. That's it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's it. Right? Yeah.

[B]

So I was actually spending more time kind of trying to really get it in, but I need to.

[A]

Well, you should get it in because you have much more head than I do. So if you just. I just put it on straight up and it takes me 30 seconds is already gone. Well, that's.

[B]

Yeah, that's because you have lots of scalp available. But I have some hair on there. So if I like, drip it into the parts where it's thin or it's gray and just. And I just kind of rub it a bit, but I don't have to rub it for a minute even. There's no point.

[A]

Ah. And it will go away. It will go away. Yeah, it'll go in pretty fast. Yeah.

[B]

This tech is cool. It takes a lot of work out of it because I've used scalp oils and crap. I have this little, like, hair massager thing, fingers, and I don't have to any of that. Okay, that's cool.

[A]

Because you don't. You don't need blood flow.

[B]

Okay. Yeah. You don't need blood flow for it to work.

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay, That's a good thing because that's one of the causes of baldness is.

[A]

Lack of blood flow. Exactly.

[B]

That's interesting. So pairing it with, like a nitric oxide capsule isn't going to do anything for your delivery, but it's probably going to be an additive effect.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. So nothing else that can be added to the glutathione products as an oral supplement. And it works. Congestion works very, very well.

[B]

Okay, that is amazing. What about women? Is there a difference? We talked a lot about guy baldness.

[A]

And all this is actually more for women than the guys, because women baldness is nutrition deficiency versus guys is sometimes hormonals and sometimes other aspects of the.

[B]

Whole hormone oxidation and blood flow or things. Right.

[A]

And so women in the. In the past, I used to always change the women's diet and the hair loss goes away and they feel better.

[B]

Get their cortisol down and get their nutrition up and they're good to go.

[A]

And with the copper infusing right by the hair follicle is going to trap. It's going to trap all the nutrients for the. For the women. So for women, I think it's going to have much, much better result than the guys would have.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Can you put things like iodine or selenium in there? Because it feels like there's a little bit of thyroid going on, even in the hair. I've seen topical thyroid help hair growth as well.

[A]

So selenium being a heavy metal answer.

[B]

Is no, because it's just too much.

[A]

It's too much too fast. I respect that because they. I would rather eat you. Four brazil nuts a day and you're done.

[B]

I question that. The brazil nuts are scary because they go from zero to overdose and they're almost all moldy. So.

[A]

Yeah, well, that's.

[B]

I take Seleno, Methionine, Selena, Methionine. Just a couple drops and they.

[A]

But yeah, again, again, I like foods better if you can get some good quality foods. So that's one of them.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And for iodine? Iodine is a pro oxidant. And the technology, it breaks apart my complexes.

[B]

So it will shred your stuff.

[A]

I'll try that.

[B]

Bummer.

[A]

Okay, I already tried that part. All right.

[B]

Okay, that makes sense. So then you might want to do some. Just make sure you have enough iodine. It's in our Minerals 101 formula. It's easy to get oral. Okay. And you probably won't get enough in your salt anyway. So iodized salt is better than nothing. But I have much better salts that we can get. That's right. Let's talk about copper inside the body. Things like ceruloplasm or serum copper. What are the different stores of copper in the body and how does your tech affect those?

[A]

We have not studied that that affects on the serum copper levels at this point.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

What we have found out is a lot of people are copper deficient in the first place.

[B]

Like I know I am.

[A]

Yeah, a lot of people copper deficient. And the reason is because there's a. Since this was back in the mid-90s, the zinc supplement came out to. For the. For the. For the treatment for cold. Right, right. I was a student back then. I remember that part also. Oh, my God. This is going to cure influenza. So no more vaccines and no more of the influenza, if you don't worry about. So just take this zinc pills and you're done. Right. Zinc usage has literally gone off the chart over the last 25 years.

[B]

And it's everything. People just throw it in for no reason. And people get zinc overdoses all the time.

[A]

That's what we are facing right now. So we have actually copper deficiency in most patients that we work with. Wow.

[B]

So I've seen lots of people, including me, where you increase copper supplement intake, but then you get extracellular copper go up, which is a toxic, heavy metal.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

But it doesn't go into the cel. You need it in your cells and you get toxins outside the cells. So how do we get copper into the cells?

[A]

That's why we have technology I know. Right now we have. Now we have now. We did it. We did not have it before. Again, Dave, you are one of those few people that outside the medical community got this early on product. Cause for the two years, we will only be giving to doctors for using themselves, using on the patients and things like that. And the results were just overwhelming. I said, when are you going to get this product available to us? Now my patients are looking for this product, and it's not because of GHK for beauty purposes. Whether that's. That's a good thing to have to have a look, make. Make it look good, but the copper is actually replenishing your body's own copper reserves. And it's just a small amount. It's a trace amount.

[B]

You don't need much.

[A]

You don't need much. You don't need to take copper supplements.

[B]

There is a copper supplement that has some efficacy. It's called copper niacin. And I wrote about it in, I think in Superhuman, my longevity book.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Or possibly that was in Smarter, Not Harder. There's good evidence for it for mitochondrial function and all that. It's relatively expensive. And it. It might get into cells better than other things. I don't know that it works in the presence of copper, but what you've got is a direct water channel that goes into the cells regardless. Yeah, but if I put it, you know, my face and hair, is it going to be systemic or is it only in those tissues?

[A]

Well, the thing is, it will eventually get systemic if. If the local places where you're applying it gets saturated.

[B]

Okay. So I just keep saturating my scalp so I have nice thick hair and my face so I don't have wrinkles, and it's eventually going to go systemic.

[A]

Systemic, Yep.

[B]

How many dropper folds, how many times a day do I need? Can I use in order to drive that process faster? Because I like to have enough copper everywhere.

[A]

So. Yes. So personally, I use a whole drop of full. Maybe two.

[B]

Two dropperfuls. Once a day.

[A]

Once a day in the morning. I don't use in the evening. I just don't have time.

[B]

I do one in the morning, one in the evening. Okay.

[A]

Yeah. But typically people use it twice a day.

[B]

Could I just take like six of them and smear it all over my body to get my levels up for a month?

[A]

You can.

[B]

So. Okay, I'm gonna try that. Just like bathe in it for a little while because I know I'm deficient.

[A]

Yeah, right. Don't put in cold plunges. Okay.

[B]

Because it'll turn blue.

So good.

[A]

But yeah, I mean you can apply twice a day. We generally recommend putting 5 to 10 drops twice a day. But you can apply more if you have to.

[B]

Something else I want to ask you about with ghk. So I have like, you know, I have, I have abs, but I also have stretch marks right there. Right. So they're pretty deep. And that's when I was obese. If I put GHK on those, are they going to still do anything? Stretch marks are a total bitch to do.

[A]

I think they're hard. There's this couple of things that I've seen. It works.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

One is iodide on the stretch marks.

[B]

It's painted on the loose.

[A]

Well, Lugos 1 to 1 to 10 solution.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Not straight. Lugal is too toxic. Right.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So 1 to 10 solution.

[B]

Like what percent iodine do you want?

[A]

So 1 milliliter lugols to 10 milliliters.

[B]

Lugols comes in anywhere from 5 to 20%.

[A]

So I go to 20%. But I only put 1ml of that one 10mls of water.

[B]

Which puts you down about 1%.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

1% iodine solution, 1% solution.

[A]

Just rub it in. Okay. You know, they'll break up all the. If there's any scars over there, they'll break it up. The GC copper is to smoothen it out.

[B]

Okay. So you do the iodine, let it soak in for a while.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like wash it off or something and then put on. Okay, I'll try that. I mean I, I think I look pretty good with my shirt off on my book cover. But I do have stretch marks. They don't bother me too much. But I'm a biohacker. I'm like, what if I could just, just get rid of those? What? You know, if I had the side abs of a 20 year old who wasn't obese, that would be fun.

[A]

We have done that for a lot of those C section scar marks. People that have that cuts and things like that.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

And all the scar tissues to break it up with with Lugols.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Or sski one of those. It's a commercial, it's a prescription item, but okay.

[B]

Lugols and probably a little shock wave on there would be good too.

[A]

Oh yeah, of course.

[B]

All right. I'm going to play around with that. That sounds like fun. Can I stack your new GHK serum with laser treatments, Fraxel laser, micro needling, all the other stuff that people do to their faces.

[A]

So micro needling may not Be necessary because of GHK is already delivering that part. So that's not an issue at all. If you're using fractals or CO2s or laser treatments, that is actually increased oxidative stress on your skin temporarily, which is not a bad thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Having GHK will basically just smooth out a little bit. What you really need is the glutathione to reduce oxidative stress after the laser treatments. Or better yet, the most of the times the people doctors are using right now are using it before the laser treatments, so the oxidative stress is not increasing high enough so they can get the laser treatment done without the side effects.

[B]

Oh, cool. So you pre treat with RO and then you do the procedure, and then you get better results.

[A]

Better results because less. Less painful. Less. Less problems.

[B]

Okay. Any studies on GHK and hyperpigmentation?

[A]

Not that I know of. I don't think so. There should not be any concern for hyperpigmentation with GHK or glutathione or citrine or any of those products that we make. But in fact, some of the hyperpigmentations, if it's not hormonal, that it's insulted.

[B]

Because of toxicities, or maybe from sun exposure.

[A]

For sun exposure, but the same toxicities. Right. Either by sun or by chemicals or.

[B]

By some sort of insulin.

[A]

Salt to the skin. Salt to the skin. Oxid stress can be reduced by glutathione, so those are easy to get rid of it. And it's not like pigmentation. It's basically. It's that overactive melanin pretty much.

[B]

Okay, I know we talked about this before, but why do people use glutathione for butthole bleaching?

[A]

We didn't talk about this last time. Oh, my God. We had so many questions on that.

[B]

I know. I was fascinated to hear that this exists, because when I started typing about glutathione, people are like, did you know they do it in Korea? I'm like, I've never spent that much time looking at my butthole, but apparently I did suntan it a few times in the New York Post because it was funny. But why is glutathione, in that case, reducing pigmentation? Because I don't think people's buttholes are exposed to that many insults.

[A]

No, it's not. But all the genital area is dark in some people. Some people are not. Right. Again, I'm not the. I'm not the doctor to identify the cause. The real cause of why there is Hyperpigmentations over there. But if it's natural, then it's not going to reduce it down.

[B]

Okay, got it.

[A]

If it's not natural, if it's just artificially became friction based or something happened, we don't know friction based, I'm not sure.

[B]

Sorry. That was my inner seventh grader coming. Yeah, Like, I have no idea. But I'm really looking for the mechanism of glutathione being a bleaching agent because it doesn't make any sense to me.

[A]

Yeah, it's not a bleaching agent.

[B]

It's not. Okay.

[A]

It does reduce the overactive melanin production.

[B]

Okay. So the cells calm down that we're making overactive melanin. Okay. Melanin, that makes great sense to me. And I did notice I haven't checked. I do inject melanotan as part of my sun protection thing and I do get a few more freckles or the freckles that exist get darker. I would say if I'm getting more of them. So I definitely see a difference from it. But not a big one.

[A]

On your hands then.

[B]

Yeah, that's a good idea.

[A]

Okay. Yeah.

[B]

So I need to use more of your glutathione. I just. Mostly it goes on my chest and stomach because I figure that's closer to my liver.

[A]

Is that a good. Proximity has nothing to do with it. See, that's a thing, right? If I spray my nose, it goes with a brain. In some cases it matters, but when it comes to this technology, it doesn't really matter. You can apply to the chest and your brain gets it and your legs gets it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And so it does goes a lot of places.

[B]

Would your technology work with nicotine?

[A]

You know what? I don't know.

[B]

We gotta try because, man, I have a nicotine nasal spray that's like hop a from like you take this, you go on a little journey. I might have used it at Burning Man a few times. And if you could increase nicotine's bioavailability in the brain, because we do know that that does work. Nicotine is neuroprotective and it's helps Alzheimer's and things like that, There actually might be a real medical use for something that could. That could go in that way.

[A]

I would look into the absorption issues if there is an absorption issues. And then if it's not getting to the.

[B]

It goes in pretty good as it is, but I want to go in even better.

[A]

Well, I. Again, we had to look into that part.

[B]

It's like the texan in me, it's like, well, if I could shoot it with a.45 caliber, I could also shoot it with a.50 caliber. We gotta try.

[A]

But the thing is, a kill is a kill, right? If it's a 9 millimeter or 50.

[B]

No, no, a kill is not a kill. Like, you want to shoot like a truck and the whole thing blows up. It's way more satisfying than if the engine block just gets penetrated. I mean, come on, there's.

[A]

Oh. But when it comes to medicine, it's not that glory, right?

[B]

Fair point. All right. And that mindset, by the way, in biohacking, there are many people, including me, who might have gone a little too far on things. So caution is warranted. Still want to try it?

[A]

Like glitter. We have the regular and the plus version. Yeah. Plus is like almost double the strength. Like one and a half, seven five times long. More than gluteal. People always think, oh, glutathione, I need more. So they buy the plus, assuming that the needs are more. But not everybody has high needs.

[B]

And if you take excess glutathione, what are the rest?

[A]

Well, the thing is, because it's a massive detoxify, it's a conjugator. So if you can clean the liver out really fast, the body's not used.

[B]

To it, you're going to get a headache.

[A]

You're going to get a headache. You get diarrhea. You know, it's things like that. And so it's not pretty. You don't have to suffer through that.

[B]

There's a natural speed of healing, and sometimes you can, without any downside, accelerate it. You can usually double your speed of healing. And sometimes, if you want to really radically heal or lose weight, doing it fast has side effects. When I published my it was a rapid fat loss guide a long time ago, I had a guy lose a pound a day for 75 days. This stuff works. Problem is, everyone gets massive brain fog when they're releasing all the toxins from their fat. So I had to put in glutathione. I didn't have yours available. I had to put in activated charcoal and all these things just to manage the toxic burden from rapid weight loss. So, yeah, we don't need to overdo it, but we want to try to overdo it once to see what happens.

[A]

Oh, people have tried it. Trust me. I get calls all the time.

[B]

All right, who shouldn't use ghk? Are there contraindications?

[A]

I don't think so. At this point, I don't. I have not come across any skin type, any person with any conditions that cannot use GHK copper.

[B]

Okay. For topical I can't think of a reason. Maybe if you're doing it intravenously or something there might be might be like out of an abundance of caution pregnancy or something but I wouldn't worry about that if I was pregnant. I know you can't say but this is our studies you're going to say you can't.

[A]

Again, GHK is one of those naturally natural products in your body. So it's not something that we are interesting something a unique. So it's not as I look at the category for the pregnancy at this point, I'm not sure Injectable for sure. No. Yeah, injectable for sure. No.

[B]

During the pandemic I sent up a blog post and I said look, or a post on some platform said as the author of a major book on fertility, I don't recommend injecting anything in pregnant women that isn't absolutely necessary to save the mother's life right now just because there's so much we don't understand, especially in the first trimester. So just be careful. Like treat pregnant women carefully. And this blue haired, mean spirited OB GYN organized a mob on Twitter to say this CIS white man is trying to tell women what to do with their bodies and he's saying they shouldn't get COVID vaccine when they're pregnant. By the way, blue haired woman, I was right. You were wrong. If you're still alive with your eight injections, you should apologize. But anyway, it was a thing to deal with. But I stand by those words. If you're pregnant or someone around you is pregnant, like treat them with kindness, be gentle. You don't need to go crazy on things like that. Lots of nourishment, lots of safety and don't stick anything in them that's not necessary.

[A]

Right, exactly. Like even the glutathione is completely safe. Right. But even during the pregnancy we tell them, hey, actually for pregnant ladies, I have doctors using for pregnant for the first trimester because it gives you a nausea instantaneously. They're not throwing up anymore.

[B]

Yeah. So you want to use glutathione at low doses. You're not going to take a hero dose of glutathione because it's going to cause a wave of toxin release.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

But most, if not all morning sickness is caused by toxins. And if you can get those out, I was always activated charcoal, glutathione. Those are in my pregnancy prep work. And then what you do when you're pregnant.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

To suck out the stuff that's going to cause problems.

[A]

Because you have two people, yourself and a baby that are releasing toxins all day long.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

The first trimester, the body started to adjust to how to get rid of all this clay. Chemicals. Yeah.

[B]

I have a friend who didn't know she was pregnant and tried 1 milligram of nicotine, which is a tiny dose. Threw up for two hours straight.

And her, you know, a couple days later, she's like, I figured out what was going on there. It was, she was pregnant and her body's like, you will not touch anything like that. Which is actually good for non pregnant people and bad for baby brain. So mom's bodies are pretty smart. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Okay, as we wind up the interview, I want you to give us your two best protocols. One, fast results for hair density and one kind of slow build for skin elasticity and just whole body GHK.

[A]

Okay, so the slow body GHK is basically just applying the recommend dose of 5 or 10 drops.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Once or twice a day.

[B]

Just anywhere.

[A]

That's anywhere most in the face. Because that's where what? That's what the symptom. If you apply on the face. That doesn't mean you grow facial hair, by the way. I just make sure people get confirmed that this is not to grow more facial hair.

[B]

By the way, it won't help guys, beards.

[A]

It may get the white follicles.

[B]

May be healthier and it may be less white. Okay. But it's not going to cause women to grow hair. It's not a hair growth serum at all. It's a healthy skin.

[A]

It's a healthy skin Develop serum. Now, if you're thinking for increasing firmness, intensity, it's the full drop of foil, which is almost 10 to 12 drops twice a day or maybe like three times a day sometimes. But that's. Now I'm going really crazy. You have to go there or not? I have no idea.

[B]

So you're talking 10 to 12 drops of the Oro Copper tripeptides three times a day on the face and neck for what period of time in order to get that thickness.

[A]

So the results shows up in four, four to six weeks.

[B]

Four to six weeks. Okay. How many dropper folds are in a bottle?

[A]

So this one is 30 milliliters, 1 ounce each dropper full is about 0.5 to 0.7 milliliters.

[B]

There's about 60 in here, 45 to 60 drops or dropper folds.

[A]

Dropper fulls.

[B]

Okay, so on that protocol, doing it twice a day, this is good for about a month.

[A]

At least a month.

[B]

Okay, cool. So you're going to need two bottles of this in order to do the scan density protocol for the first time.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Two bottles if it's one. If it's twice two dropper or. You said four dropperfuls a day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, got it. So you need two bottles for the first month, four split. And so you might as well get four bottles and that's going to get you two months, which is plenty of time. And you should be able to see measurable results even on like a high end dermal scan, right?

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Okay.

Let'S compare that to Botox, which is bad for your nervous system. It makes you less emotive. Anyway.

What does four bottles of this cost?

[A]

Each one is going to be around about 160.

[B]

160. Okay.

[A]

Ish.

[B]

And if I buy four of them, do I get some kind of a discount?

[A]

Well, we can use Dave's code.

[B]

Oh, is there a Dave code? Okay, what's the. So was it Code Dave?

[A]

We can do code Dave or Dave10.

[B]

I just figured it'd be a bulk discount, but. All right, so there you go guys. Use code DAVE10. We just made that up. RO wellness.com. yes, aurow wellness.com and then use code Dave. And whether you use code Dave or not, if you get four bottles of this and you use it reliably, two bottles per month, that's four dropperfuls a day for two months. You should see very measurable results that last for a while because you're actually regrowing stuff. You don't have to do this at that intensity forever.

[A]

No, it's just for a month or two. After that you just go back to regular use.

[B]

Vial. Every month or two every.

[A]

Every couple of months. Yeah.

[B]

Okay, so it costs you 80 bucks a month ongoing. And if you do the initial facial regeneration protocol, you're talking four bottles, which is going to run about.

6,640. And you're giving people some discount on this. About 600 bucks.

[A]

Yep. Okay.

[B]

That's pretty much what Botox costs. Actually less than Botox for a lot of people.

[A]

But this is non toxic.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

No, it's just so much better.

[B]

It's so much better. Oh my gosh.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

This is cool stuff. I've been using it for six months. I am going to actually increase my usage rate and see what happens because of my zinc copper ratios. Nayann, as always, you're a very high end innovator. There's about three different skincare brands that I've worked with that I really see interesting things. You're not really a skincare brand. You're a pharmaceutical delivery system brand that also does skincare. That's right. Right. And it's pretty impressive. You just see the world through a very different light and you certainly earn my respect. And your stuff works. I mean, it works really well. The glutathione is, you know, I don't carry little packets of it when I travel anymore that tastes like, you know, fart jello. I just spray your stuff on and it's good to go. And it really works post flight. So I just, I. I can know. Cause you can feel it. And I think anyone who's heard this interview of the last couple, you're into this and you don't think about this like skin people. You think about this like pharmacist people. It's cool.

[A]

Yeah. No, thank you. I appreciate that. That's what I tell my staff too. My staff keeps on telling me, I said, no, but people buy skincare for emotional reasons. I said, yeah, but who are those people? I don't know who those people are. I only know one thing. I want to create products that actually makes a difference. Right.

[B]

Well, I mean, I guess I say this over and over, but I really see your mindset as different than anyone else in the industry. You're different than the supplement people I know, and I'm one of those. And you're different than the skincare people I know. And I'm kind of a little bit one of those, you know, been involved in the founding of a company in the space. But it's like you're this whole third category that's disruptive. So keep it up and I look forward to trying whatever next science experiment we come up with.

[A]

Awesome. Thank you, Dave.

[B]

See you next time on the Human Upgrade Podcast.

[C]

A Human Upgrade, formerly Bulletproof Radio, was created and is hosted by Dave Asprey. The information contained in this podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended for the purposes of diagnosing, treating, curing, or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider, carefully read all labels and heed all directions and cautions that accompany the products. Information found or received through the podcast should not be used in place of a consultation or advice from a healthcare provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem or should you have any healthcare questions, please promptly call or see your healthcare provider. This podcast, including Dave Asprey and the producers, disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein. Opinions of guests are their own and this podcast does not endorse or accept the responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein. This podcast is owned by Bulletproof Media.