← The Human Upgrade: Biohacking for Longevity & Performance
The Human Upgrade: Biohacking for Longevity & Performance
Why Gen Z Can’t Handle the Real World (and How We Can Help Them) | Jennifer Cohen : 1266
00:51:24
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- [00:00]
A
You said straight up that modern parenting causes fragile children. Why?
- [00:05]
B
Studies showed that 27% of kids were taking their parents to job interviews because they weren't comfortable to go on their own.
- [00:14]
A
We are failing our kids. Anxiety is skyrocketing. Resilience is vanishing, and kids are crumbling under the smallest challenges. And the way we're parenting today, it's making things worse. Parents do their best to do the right thing. They protect, shield, and smooth the path. But what if everything that we believe about raising successful kids is actually setting them up to fail? Jen Cohen isn't just another parenting expert. She spent her career studying high achievers.
- [00:42]
B
We are creating a generation of weaker kids with less coping skills and more mental health issues than ever before, dissecting.
- [00:50]
A
What separates the strong from the weak, the successful from the stuck. She's a Wall Street Journal bestselling author, an expert in resilience, and the woman behind an iconic TED talk about kids. And her conclusion? We are RA the weakest generation in history. Kids today have fewer coping skills than ever. They avoid discomfort. They collapse under pressure. And it's not their fault. It's ours. Because modern parenting has become a trap. We tell our kids to be safe. We take away the risk. We overprotect, overpraise, and accidentally create fragility when we want to create strength. Jen is here to expose the truth about what we've done to our kids and how you can fix it before it's too late. And if you don't have kids, listen to the show because these are the people you work with.
- [01:34]
B
We are basically snowplowing, plowing, and taking away all of the challenges and the struggle from our kids, and we're not even allowing them the ability to learn how to fail.
- [01:45]
A
How do you raise resilient and healthy and mentally strong children in a world that's a little bit fragile? The world won't go easy on our kids. What if we taught them to be tough and kind? You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Today's episode is recorded live in studio in Los Angeles at Jen Cohen's studio, who might just happen to be our guest today. And you might say, who the heck is Jen Cohen? But that's because you're probably not reading all of her books or paying attention to the things that she's been doing in the world for a long time. She's had a big voice in health and in entrepreneurship. I was just on her show, and we're going to talk about something that goes beyond just health and we're going to talk about her viral TED video that as an entrepreneur, a mom, and an expert in health, how do you raise resilient and healthy and mentally strong children in a world that's a little bit fragile? So this is the kind of thing that is critically important because if we want to live in a world with the kind of society we want, we have to take care of our kids and we have to take care of our elders and actually make them into our extremely young elders, because that's what the world needs right now. We need wisdom and we need energy, and we need kids who can change the world, and we need not break them. So we're going to talk about her TED talk and the things she's learned, and she's a Wall Street Journal bestselling author and has done all kinds of stuff in business. We have to go into all that because this is about parenting and this is maybe about the way you were parented, the way that we make society work. Jen, welcome to your own studio in the show.
- [03:27]
B
Thank. It feels so familiar being here. Thank you for having me.
- [03:32]
A
You've said straight up that modern parenting causes fragile children. Why?
- [03:38]
B
Well, I think that we're living in a very a time that's been. It's changed a lot since when we were kids, right. Like, it's. Right now it's all about gentle parenting. And what it's done is made our children and our people softer and softer every year. Where people now are just don't have the coping skills and the coping mechanisms to deal with life, work, personal. And I really, like, this was not an area that I was really kind of doing in my career. Right. Like parenting skills or parenting. But mental toughness and resilience was really an area that I focused on for so many years. It's been like part of my platform. And I realized that the truth of the matter is, like, if you want to be mentally strong and mentally tough, you don't start when you're an adult. You start when you're young and a child. Right? So why not do something where we're giving our children or the younger generation, like, ways and key skills to become proper adults and be mentally strong and mentally tough as they get older.
- [04:50]
A
It seems like experiencing failure and regret and pain and sometimes guilt, but not shame is critically important when you're a kid. So you can experience that and then recover from it and realize it's not gonna. It's not gonna kill you.
- [05:07]
B
No, I mean, the re. The reality is, like, the more people fail and this is like, this is not just me talking. This is tons of research and data and over spanning over many, many years. But what we need is failure to become successful. What we need is to learn how to be resilient. And the only real way to learn how to be resilient is to fail over and over again. Pick yourself back up and do it again. But what's happening now is parents are because of. We're living in a society now where it's really all about triggers and helicopter parenting and safe spaces. We are basically snow plowing and taking, taking away all of the challenges and the struggle from our kids and we're not even allowing them the ability to learn how to fail.
- [06:00]
A
Safe spaces make me angry. Actually they did. I did my work. I'm not triggered by them. They just make me sad because, okay, danger coffee. I'm not trying to plug my stuff here. It's danger because who knows what you might do. I want dangerous spaces. It doesn't mean that they're unreasonably dangerous. It means that you can take risks and have consequences, but the risks are worth it. And if we teach our kids they have to have a safe space to take a risk. It's not a risk anymore.
- [06:27]
B
No. And first of all, the whole idea of the. Let's just call it what it is, right? We are living in caudal culture. We need to switch this whole idea of caudal culture to more of a challenge culture. Right? When we were young, what's happened, actually if I can give you a little bit of background, what's happened when what we used to do as children, right, we used to play outside, we used to like take our bikes. We used to like, we used to be able, we'd have to fend for ourselves a little bit. We'd climb trees, we'd fall, we'd break our arm. We would, right, like this is, this is how we would. We would have more adventure, we'd have more social interaction that has all been taking up, taken away from us as a culture. And well, the first thing is it's called technology smartphones. That was like, that's, that's basically what happened. What we used to do by people who were born after 1993 no longer had the same type of culture that we grew up in where we kind of had to kind of fend for ourselves and play and socialize and create that kind of dynamic date, right? Like this is all have been, this has been completely eliminated by the smartphone, by social media. And that is another reason why there's so much depression, anxiety, suicidal rates. All these things have gone up as technology and smartphones have gone. Have gone up.
- [07:45]
A
I think a lot of us know phones are bad for kids and social media and all that. The idea that our culture is that way, it feels like it goes deeper. I'm just thinking, my kids went to a Waldorf school, right? And they used to have trees they could climb.
- [07:58]
B
Right.
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A
And my kids, when they were really young, they climbed 30ft up in a tree. And as a dad, I'm like, I'm just gonna take a deep breath. They're unlikely to fall because they don't want to die.
- [08:06]
B
Right, right, right.
- [08:07]
A
And they never. They never fell, but they were so powerful because they could do that. And then one day a parent complained and they school came through, and they cut off all the limbs that the kids used to climb the trees so they couldn't get on the tree anymore. And my kids came home angry. Like they took them away from us. And I was proud that that was their attitude, but it was one. I'm just gonna say it. I would interpret this as a mentally deranged parent. Yeah, it was like, there's something that might be dangerous. Dude, breathing is dangerous. So it isn't just social media. It feels like a few fearful ninnies are breaking everything.
- [08:45]
B
Well, it's a combination, right? It's like. Of course. It's like social media is the first piece of it. Right.
- [08:49]
A
That's a causal thing.
- [08:50]
B
That's one of the things. But what's also happened is this whole change in how people parent. What happens now? Parents want to either be the kids, the children's friend. That's the first part. Or. And. Or they also are completely overprotective. Where what we're doing is we're over protecting on in real world, and we're under protecting on, like, online. That's really what's happening, right?
- [09:17]
A
Overprotecting online.
- [09:18]
B
Yeah. So parents are like, trying to, like, create these things online where their kids are not, you know, they're. They're. They're under protecting online. Sorry. They're under protecting online. Right. Because that's really where all the. That's where actually the true creeps are. That's where people are like these pedophiles are. People in real life are not doing those things as much. There's one thing, remember, with the. With the big white van and like, the kidnapping and the abduction in the 90s, and now that doesn't happen anymore. You're having the pedophiles and the creeps on social media who are kind of getting the kids. So what's. But why I'm bringing that up is parents have become very fearful of their kids playing outside, going on a bike, doing all these things. And it kind of escalated where the helicoptering happens, the overprotection happens, where, like I said, the kids. Now what's happening in society is that we've been. We've basically become so fragile where kids now are not even able to go to job interviews. There was like a crazy study that showed that 27% of kids were taking their parents to job interviews. 27% because they weren't comfortable to go on their own.
- [10:39]
A
It's so weird that adults or teenagers feel like being comfortable is a normal thing in a job interview.
- [10:47]
B
Yeah, exactly. That's a great point.
- [10:49]
A
I felt like I was gonna fill my pants in my first few job interviews until I learned how to do it. And some companies didn't hire me. Right. And I didn't like it.
- [10:58]
B
But isn't that life?
- [10:59]
A
Well, it is life. And it. It seems kind of weird though, because it's so easy to blame social media. It seems like you're really blaming parenting.
- [11:08]
B
It's like I said, it's not. Social media is like one. One aspect. Right. Which. The social media piece of it is more about the kids. Kids in general are just not. They're not playing outside anymore. They're not playing with their friends anymore. They're not socializing anymore. People aren't dating anymore. That's a whole other piece of the pie.
- [11:29]
A
It feels like that's processed food and lack of hormones, isn't it?
- [11:32]
B
Well, it. A bunch of. It's a bunch of things that processed food is. Because people are becoming very sedentary and everything is quick fixes. Everyone wants a quick fix. They're online. Like everything. Like chat, GPT, everything is how to get something quicker. There's instant gratification. People's. People's. You know this, right? Like your. Your ability to even concentrate, even on Instagram. Look how it used to be. Like how. How things went from being a minute to 30 seconds to 15 seconds. Now people can't even concentrate for 10 seconds.
- [12:04]
A
I hate Instagram and sorry. Thank you for following me there.
- [12:09]
B
Don't you have a huge following on Instagram?
- [12:10]
A
I do, but.
- [12:13]
B
Do you like TikTok better?
- [12:14]
A
Oh, God. I. I used to write 3,000 word pieces that were easy to read. That would explain. This is the thing that we're paying attention to. Here's what to do. And if you have the eight minutes to read that, it'll change your life. And people don't read those anymore and used to be able to post them with links and the social media companies took off the links. So now we do these weird things where I'm supposed to say something in 20 seconds and I do my best. And then you get. The trolls come in and they're like, references. I'm like, well, you could read one of my books with a thousand references. But no one in social media in a video can give you a reference because there's no time. And people. That's what people want. Or maybe that's just what social media is giving people. It's not what I want. I just, I miss the good old days when Facebook would let friends post medical journals. I had the best feed ever because all my friends like, here's all the cool stuff happening and it's all gone. And it's just, you know, rapid cut videos that are neurologically sickening. So my kids aren't on social media though. And I, I'm very, I'm just so grateful for my kids. I think they're wonderful.
- [13:18]
B
How old are your kids?
- [13:19]
A
They're 15 and 17.
- [13:20]
B
Okay, so they're older. So they are.
- [13:23]
A
And they didn't have social media because we didn't let them have screens and all that because they're in a school that was, you know, play outdoors and they lived on a. But I'm pretty a lot of work. I had to live on an island and 400 hours a year of extra airplane time to do it. And I'm lucky I could do that. How's anyone supposed to do this in the world?
- [13:38]
B
Well, you just said it yourself. So, you know, this whole thing that we're talking about today is how to raise mentally strong kids or how to become resilient, right? Well, you just kind of said it in a nutshell, right? Number one, you took initiative to create certain boundaries for your kids. We're saying, you know what, you're not going to be allowed to be on social media. Or you gave them like guidelines and boundaries. That's the first thing. You move to a farm where they were forced basically to like play outside. You picked a school where that was available. So the first thing to all of this is parents have to become, have to actually be parents and give their children rules to abide by.
- [14:18]
A
So, Jen, I'm going to push back on this a little bit.
- [14:21]
B
Go ahead, push back all you want.
- [14:22]
A
So I built a 32 acre farm. I am the CEO of multiple companies. And the mother of my children was able to stay home. She had a few clients, but she spent the vast majority of our time being a care provider. And you know, we raised our sheep and our pigs and our cows and our chickens and we ate them. And that's pretty damned idyllic. And I could only do that because I could afford a farmhand who helped to run the thing because otherwise I would have been running it. So I totally agree. Practical for anybody.
- [14:48]
B
Well, listen, listen, listen. Yes, you're rich and you're successful. Okay? However, I'm taught you don't have to be rich and successful like you to put boundaries and guidelines on your, what your children are doing at a young age. You can say to your, you can, like for an example, you don't have to give your kids a smartphone when they turn 11 or 12. Do you know you can give your kid, if it's for safety purposes, give your kid a flip phone so they're not there scrolling the Internet, checking online. Don't allow them that ability. First of all, how old are your kids? 10 and 12. And so this is what just happened with my kid. So Mike, everybody, every one of my kids, friends, my 12 year old, every single one of them has a phone.
- [15:34]
A
And they have Snapchat, which is how all social stuff happens.
- [15:37]
B
Oh, snap. Yeah. My kids, not. So what, so how did, how do I, how do I take care of that or how do I deal with that? Number one, I try to create just to kind of to your point, I try to, I try to bring parents together, other moms together, said let's all band together and not give our kids a smartphone until they are 15. Right? I was the only, no one wanted to listen to me. So then I was a devil incarnate. My kid was the only one who didn't have the phone who hated me.
- [16:06]
A
Gave me a little bit of a pressure on kids.
- [16:07]
B
It's terrible because then, then you have the other issue, which is like they feel, they feel ostracized, they felt left out that the fomo, all these things. Right. But you know, my, my job as a parent isn't to be liked all the time. It's that that's not my job. I'm not trying to be their friend. You can't say that it is. But why, since when is it my. First of all, this is part of the problem. Parents want, they want to be BFFs with their kid. They don't want to be hated, they don't want to be disliked. So they'll just acquiesce to these things that actually in the future cause a lot of damage and harm. So to finish my thought is what I did was I got my kid some flip phone so he can call me and he can text me. Okay. Is he happy about it? No. But again, I'm not trying to be my kid's best friend. I'm trying to like, give my kid the tools to be better off later on, you know, so that's the first thing. So if you like, you don't have to be living on a farm with 32 acres and having a sheep and a dog and a cow and a monkey. But you, what you do, we didn't.
- [17:07]
A
Need the dog or the monkey. Just to be really clear.
- [17:09]
B
Okay, you don't need the dog. And so that's the first. And the other thing is put your kids in sports, like tell. You know, put your kids in team sports where they're learning how to socialize and they learn how to like, show up on time and they learn how to, like, deal with other kids and, and be a teammate. These are really important things to do.
- [17:30]
A
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- [19:29]
B
Why not?
- [19:30]
A
One of my kids went to something called Greek Olympics, okay? And this is where schools from all over a region, they bring all their kids together to compete in traditional Greek games. This child like, okay, I want to win something. Okay, great. So what's the event that no one's going to train for? Javelin. So we bought a javelin and trained like hell in the front yard. So, okay, that's one where no one gets practice time. So my kid go, this is hard to not say which one it is. My kid goes, and we get there and we drove a couple hundred miles to get all kinds of, you know, regional meet. And the organizers go, oh, we're not going to have individual winners. We're going to measure on the first day the average group time. And then we're going to celebrate the percentage of improvement across everyone. And I was so disgusted and so was my kid. Like, I worked hard on this and we can't have a winner. So team sports are broken because it's about making you feel good in those too.
- [20:29]
B
So I'm glad that you bring that up because another thing that I talk a lot about is these participation trophies, right, where everybody wins, wins by getting a participation trophy. Which, by the way, what are you teaching your child? In life, there are winners and there are losers. And if you want to be a winner, you have to work really hard and you got, you got to practice, you got to put in the work. By just everybody getting a participation trophy, what are you really teaching? Right? It's also the same as when every, when the, you know, for science fair, right, when all the parents are actually doing the science project for the child as opposed to letting the kid, like do whatever they do and then, you know, get whatever mark they're getting or grade whatever you say. I'm Canadian. The truth of the matter is like what happens, right? Like basically you're having every one parent's competing with the other parent for the gold star. That's what's actually happening, right? These are all the things that, these are my like not to do's, right? Like what I'm, my entire message of why we're like what I'm trying to say to people. And I think we need to band together and like I said, eliminate these, these participation trophies, these snow plowing all the challenges, allowing our kids to learn failure for themselves and give them a try because the coping skills are what's lacking. Having the, the inability to, to have these skills as an adult or as you get older that what, what's the repercussion of that? You're not going to be able to have any type of real personal relationship, professional relationship. What happens when you go into a interview and you don't get the job? You're going to crumble because you've had no experience in any failure, right? Part of like, part of my success was I was so used to like no's and failures and mediocrity that it built my resourcefulness and it built my ability to be so desensitized to the feeling of failure that I didn't, I wasn't scared to kind of keep on going and asking and doing because if I failed, all right, I'll just, just try again. That's the, that's the message, right? Like you want to be, you want to be able to give your children a chance where they feel that they can like go after something time and time again and potentially like maybe get it, maybe not get it, but at least like that's competence. How do you get confident without having any competence?
- [22:52]
A
I never thought of this, but this lack of failure thing. When I was in high school, I went from a great high school to a really crappy high school in a farming town. I was the top grade in the class. I didn't have to do any homework. It was just not challenging for me. So I'm top of my class with no work and I went to college. I failed out of college because I had never had to work hard because I always got, you know, I was, got a good grade, right? And it took me quite a lot of work, including fixing my brain, to realize, oh my gosh, I've got to actually do this. It would have been really good If I'd have been challenged and failed as a, as a kid. And what I think is happening is parents bully teachers.
- [23:34]
B
Yeah, totally true. Yeah.
- [23:36]
A
Teachers are fed up. And a lot of teachers, they also are just saying I don't want any child to experience any kind of discomfort in my class and all. And something has shifted in the expectations of teachers and the way parents treat teachers. So what is a way that a parent can create opportunities for a child to fail and be rejected and still feel safe?
- [23:58]
B
Well, I think there's two things. I think that you. Again, I'm not. I think that you can allow your kid to fail and still, and still put safety as a, as a, as a top priority.
- [24:11]
A
What's an example?
- [24:11]
B
Like, an example would be like I said that having, doing, doing your child's homework, doing the science fair project, I mean your kid's still going to be safe if they get a D or an F if they don't put the work in. Right. So there's ways to do it where you're just not, you're, you're, you're not a, you're, you're not tending to every emotional need like these, these triggers and these safe spaces, allowing your kids to feel a feeling and not in that, and not in that woo woo way, but like the feeling of, you know, failing, having to go through that emotion of, or trying out for a team and not making the team. Let them go through that emotion of not, not doing it. Realizing if they don't practice at basketball, I'm making this up, they may not get on the team. And therefore what is that teaching your kid? Maybe they should practice more, maybe they should put more effort in or maybe not everybody will always win. Maybe what you have to dig deep in is where are you talented? Where does, like that's how people figure stuff out. What's happening here is that if you can pay X amount of dollars, you could be on your club soccer team, you could be on the club basketball team. Now if you can always just like, if you can always just take that, that pain away from your kid, what is your kid gonna learn? What is the kid gonna feel? Are they gonna come to you when they're, when they're 30 years old? Are you gonna pay all the, do you wanna pay the bills of your kids when they're 30 years old? Do you want them to live at home? Do you want them to never find a date? Like this is like it's, it becomes a situation where like if you're trying to like seriously create like A full grown human being. You're going to have to put in some, like, hard work at the, at the, at the, at the front end. That's my point. And so, like, what's wrong? Like, also chores. Chores is a great thing. Harvard did this huge study over like 75 years, and they showed that kids who actually had chores, it taught kids so many valuable life lessons. Right. Like responsibility. A million. Right. But yet we're kind of eliminating that as well. Give your kids chores. I should just say, give your kids chores. And it teaches your kids not just responsibility, but it gives kids confidence. And they've shown that the kids who had chores versus the kids who did not have chores, or over a span of a certain amount of years, the kids who had the chores were abundantly more successful in every walk of life.
- [26:45]
A
One of the mistakes that I think I made as a parent is I would pay my kids for the chores. You know, I want to get your, your take on this because chores are necessary in order just to support your family. And that's, that's how it is. This is how you contribute to the family. You don't get paid for that. You want to get paid. You have to go above and beyond and find a way to do something extra. And I did not do that. And if I could go back, I would have. And it's advice I picked up from another friend. And then you're saying, you know, the work that's necessary is necessary and you don't get paid for that.
- [27:17]
B
Right, Right.
- [27:18]
A
And so some of this could be. It's just, it's too easy. And some of it could be too. I know that I did my best to give the kids chores that were a little bit unpleasant, so they'd have to do them, you know, oh, yeah, you got to do an hour of shoveling sheep. And I know they hated it when they were little. And I. Well, okay, being uncomfortable. If you like to not do this, you can start a business. And I totally support your right to start a business and hire someone to shovel the cheap shit for you if you want to. And one of my kids did hire the other one one time, which was hilarious.
- [27:51]
B
Really?
- [27:51]
A
Well, yeah, totally.
- [27:52]
B
Right?
- [27:53]
A
Okay. You didn't want to do it. You pay your sibling to do it. Works for me. But I didn't hammer home the idea that there is an amount of work you will always have to do in your life. You'll always have to put dishes in the dishwasher unless you hire someone to do that for you.
- [28:06]
B
Right. I think another issue Is that it's hard when you. You are. Your parent, you are successful, and then you have kids. And you. How do you. And I'm asking this to you, right? Like, where. Where is the line, right? Because you have all these, like, luxuries, right? Like, you're living on a huge farm with, you're saying 32 acres. And. And you technically can pay for a lot of people to, like, do a lot of this. The grunt work, so to say.
- [28:35]
A
We didn't do that.
- [28:37]
B
So, like, right, so you. The. You. It's. You have to be. You have to have the. You. You have to cut. You have to think about those things more, right? And have the. You. You have to put those things in place even more so. So your kids don't just, like, basically, like, live off of that situation.
- [28:57]
A
I look at parenting now as, like, how do I structure the right level of adversity for my children so that they can struggle, they can sometimes win, and they can sometimes fail, and they can understand that it's okay to fail. And one of the things that I tried doing for that is when they were very little, especially, we lay down for bedtime and tell them a story, say, all right, let's do our gratitude practice. What are three things you're grateful for? Okay, this is fantastic for kids. But then I would say, what is one fail you had today? And if failure is a very specific thing, it's something that you wanted and something that you attempted to do and you didn't get it right? And then they sit down and they think about it. And anytime they would have something, I'd say, oh, my gosh, that's so good. And I praise the failure to the end. So they're like, I'm so proud of you. You did something so hard, you didn't know how to do it. Wow, that's impressive. And they got way more than from that than they did from gratitude.
- [29:53]
B
Yeah.
- [29:54]
A
I don't know if it worked or not. What's your take on.
- [29:56]
B
I love that I do this other thing. It's called the 10% target. And what that is is basically making 10 attempts at whatever you want most. And the reason why I do that is because either one of two things will happen. Either you will get that thing, or another opportunity will present itself that you never even knew existed by just going through that whole path. And what it does also while doing that, it teaches you, number one, you're. You're setting your. Your mind to the idea of, okay, I'm gonna. I might fail nine times or 10 times. So you're ready, like, positioned for that. And so therefore, you're getting comfortable with the failure. And the other thing it does is kind of. I. I think it gives. It gives you a structure to work within. And typically, more often than not, you may most likely don't get that goal, but the other opportunity will present itself. So it teaches you that you should keep on trying, that you should make attempts, that you. There's nothing wrong with making many attempts. And so that's how I do it. I used to do something similar to you, which was like, you know, the rose of the thorn, right? Tell me one thing great, one thing bad. But then I kind of. I tweaked it to these 10 attempts because then also it makes you. Takes out the creative juices, right? And it says, okay, what can. What are the 10 things I can do? I can try this, I can do that. And it makes you think about things that otherwise you would not think about. And so that's why I also think it's really important to be bored. I think boredom is so important.
- [31:37]
A
Thank you. Why?
- [31:39]
B
I think it's really important because I think that's where creativity lies and lives. And we're so busy all the time distracting ourselves from so many things and that we don't give ourself a chance to actually sit and think and think of things in different ways and just be. And that, to me, is where real, like, where kind of like childhood has really kind of missed a mark. We over schedule our kids a lot. We over schedule ourselves a lot. We use our phone as a distraction. Like if you go into an elevator these days, right? Everyone's so afraid of, like, eye contact, right? Because they go on their phone. Like, it's like it's a natural instinct now just to, like, busy yourself. It's like it's uncomfortable to even be uncomfortable with a human.
- [32:26]
A
Do you busy yourself because you're uncomfortable with humans and elevators?
- [32:29]
B
I think we. I think I. I busy my. I think what happens is I think we've been conditioned to do these things. Not because I'm actually uncomfortable. It's because I've now been my. I'm so conditioned now just to look at my phone if I'm not doing anything. So what I really wanted to kind of instill in my kids and with myself. And by the way, it's because I'm not perfect. I'm part of what's happening in this cycle. So are you, right? Like, if we're so enamored with our phone, how are Our children not gonna be enamored.
- [33:00]
A
So it's what they see, right?
- [33:02]
B
It's what they see. Kids learn way they learn. I think it was like 75% more by what they are looking at than versus what you're saying to them, right? So you have to like show them and role model. And that's by the way, why I think even like when you, when parents who are not exercising and working out, like, what are you teaching your kid? Like, I think it's really important. If you want your kid to be fit and active and take care of themselves, you should be fit, active, take care of themselves. If you want your kid to eat well, you need to eat well. So it's. People mirror what they see and what their environment is.
- [33:37]
A
It's a tall order and it does work. One of my just proudest dad moments was my. My kids food shamed our nanny because she took him to McDonald's. They'd never been to McDonald's. And my daughter's like, she was very young and I think I'm gonna talk about this. Cause she was so little. And the window rolls down, she goes, I want one poopy Chemical latte, please. Because she knew that McDonald's put stuff in their food. And like, look, kids, people go to fast food because it tastes good and it's affordable and it's convenient and that's okay. Like, everyone has their own, their own reasons. And so I said, let's go to McDonald's and you can play on this slide. You can buy french fries. We'll eat all this stuff. And I'm just thinking I'm gonna feel like crap for a week from this. And both kids, they're very little. They got these angry little kid faces. You know the cute ones, they puff up.
- [34:28]
B
Yeah.
- [34:29]
A
And they said, daddy, you can take us to McDonald's, but you can't make us eat. And I'm like, what are you talking about? It's going to taste good. And they said, we know what our tummies feel like if we eat that way. And we don't want to because they never saw me eat that way one time because I don't eat that.
- [34:45]
B
So you know what's interesting? I was going to ask you actually, when you were on my show, right, like the pr. Because you're so extreme for most people, right, like, right, like people like me love it, right? Like all this stuff, the biohacking, the longevity. But for two little kids, right, and they're seeing their dad at like next, next level, eating a certain way and doing all these, like these, these habits and, you know, wearing the yellow glasses and eating this and not eating spinach and raspberries because of what's in it. Like, do your kids even do. Do they mimic that even? Do they think it's crazy? Do they think it's weird or do they actually partake in it with you?
- [35:22]
A
They don't think it's weird because it's what they've always known. They also have an opportunity to eat school food.
- [35:29]
B
They do.
- [35:30]
A
Well, I mean, they go to a boarding school and they, they stay at our house, but they go to school. And boarding school, it's a pretty good one. But they cook in seed oils and all this. And like, we are so tired of chicken. The food is not good. We just need, we need, we need food. And so they know the difference. And I mean, I was. Both kids have independently come to me and said, you know, on days when the food's really not that good and I need to do well on my studies, what could I bring with me to school so that I have something that I want to eat that's going to keep my brain working? Because I've noticed a difference in how I feel. So the lesson for my kids was you get to choose how you feel. And a large part of that is how you eat and how you sleep. If you just do that, it's all about control for kids. So I want you to have control over this. And look, I can't tell you what to eat. You're a teenager. You can have all the junk food all day long. I'm not going to know. And I support your right to do that. You have to pay the, the price for it. And they are used to feeling good and they can feel the difference. But if you eat Cheetos at home and when you're stressed, you have a box of Mac and cheese and the kids understand that's what you do. I don't think it works.
- [36:37]
B
Well, yeah. I mean, your habits, do they adopt some of those habits, like you're sleep. Are they wearing the sleep stuff that you're doing? Are they doing those things?
- [36:46]
A
I bought both my kids Oura rings when they were like eight or nine or something.
- [36:50]
B
Really? Okay.
- [36:51]
A
And one of them uses it regularly and is working on it. Yeah. And the other one is like, you know, that was interesting for a month. And the idea here is I'm offering you ways to have control over yourself. Because what kids really want is power and control.
- [37:04]
B
Yeah. So power control for sure.
- [37:06]
A
These are ways you can you can have that. One of my kids tried mouth taping after seeing me do it. And for the last three years, every night their mouth is taped, except on sleepovers.
- [37:19]
B
Really?
- [37:19]
A
Like, oh, look, when I wake up in the morning, I don't have bad breath and my mouth isn't dry. I like that. So I didn't force it.
- [37:26]
B
I think it's the second you start to force something on the kids that's like the kiss of death. You have to just role model it and hope for the best.
- [37:39]
A
The universe is actually quantum. At least that's what quantum physics hard science is showing us. Even though we don't really see it, a lot of things that we do in our life drains your energy and it disrupts your quantum energy. There are things you can do about it. Chronic stress, EMFs, environmental toxins make you feel bad. I think we all know that and we work to eliminate those or to reduce them as much as we can. But what if you could actually increase your quantum energy field so that you were more resilient to these things? It turns out you can. And there's a technology called Quantum Upgrade that comes in. It's a cutting edge edge quantum streaming service that provides quantum energy. Yeah, I know that doesn't sound believable, except it works. And it's not a woo woo concept. The team at Quantum Upgrade ran randomized double blind placebo controlled studies to get the hard data. And in one study, Quantum Upgrade as a service completely neutralized the negative effects of 5G exposure on blood flow. Another double blind study found it makes red blood cells more flexible and improves their ability to carry oxygen. It increases ATP production by up to 29%. And those are just a few of the cool things it can do. When you sign up, you can link your phone, your home, your business, even your pet with their energy source. And the cool thing is you don't need to believe in something for it to work. Quantum Upgrade has the science, the testimonials, and now over 13 placebo controlled studies backing what they do. Even though it sounds pretty incredible, I use it because I like default of the science. Try Quantum upgrade free for 15 days. You don't even need to enter your credit card. Go to QuantumUpgrade IO Dave and just click Pay later at checkout. 15 days. Give it a try. See what you see. Staring at screens all day is wrecking your vision and your brain. You might just think it's aging, but it's not. It's a broken eye brain connection. And it gets worse every hour you spend Looking at a screen. If you plan to live to 180 and beyond, you need to protect your dominant sense. Now here's the good news. You can train your visual system just like you train your body or your brain. Screen fit is a science backed method built by Dr. Bryce Applebaum that rebuilds how your brain and eyes work together. No eye drops, no appointments, no gimmicks. Just 15 minutes a day to sharpen focus, reduce fatigue and protect your vision for the long haul. I saw real results in just a week. If you strive for peak performance or plan to live a very long time like I do, you want clear vision to match, go to screenfit.com Dave or use code Dave to get $200 off and try it for yourself. You'll see what I mean. Literally, my hope as a dad is that the kids will see how I did it and they'll know this behavior leads to this outcome and they'll choose whatever behaviors they want. But they'll know why they got the outcomes they got. And after that, one of my kids doesn't seem to pay much attention to light at night and it affects that kid. The other one is actually pretty disciplined about using a red light. And there's a difference in sleep scores. But I'm not going to yell in shame. I will say, if I walk into a room, like, I'm not coming in there because those bright lights are going to screw up my sleep.
- [40:53]
B
Right? Right. Right.
- [40:54]
A
So again, opportunity to fail. You wake up, you feel like crap, and you fail your test. That's up to you.
- [40:59]
B
Right.
- [41:00]
A
The. The one other idea I want to run past you because we're kind of like co figuring out how to solve this problem without being able to make other parents or teachers change. Have you ever heard of rejection therapy?
- [41:09]
B
No. What is that?
- [41:11]
A
I've read about this in Game Changers. I did an interview a long time ago. This was a guy, as a young man, he figured out as a young man that he was terrified of being rejected. It was affecting him at work, respecting his dating life. And he was like, I'm not taking risks. I know I want to take risks. But then when the, the time comes, I choke up and I don't like it. So he invented this idea of rejection therapy, which is every day you ask for things that you think are unreasonable until you get a no. And he tells these beautiful stories like he went to Burger King and asked for a burger refill and they gave him one. He's like, I didn't get my no today. Damn it. And so it turns the rejection into the. When you're seeking. And then he went to the Krispy Kreme place and said, can I have Olympic ring donuts? And they said, okay. Like, ah. And by the end of 30 days of this, the internal fear response, which is entirely automatic, before you can think, it just went away. And he's a really successful guy 10 years later.
- [42:06]
B
So, you know, it's really funny that you just said that, right? Because you call it rejection therapy. In my last book called Bigger, better, bolder, I talk all about that. So my. I did a different TED talk called the secret to getting anything you want in life. And that was about how. How to be bold, how to be bold in life. And then it did so well that it wrote a book about it. And my entire thesis is based around this principle that being bold is more. It is way more important than being intelligent. Because when you're intelligent, you overthink everything to death. And you become, you know, you can get like, the whole analysis paralysis. But when you're bold, you just, like you. You aim first, you know, you kind of. You shoot the name.
- [42:52]
A
You know, you figure it out on the way.
- [42:54]
B
You figure it out on the way. And I'm. I'm a big believer that being bold is way more important than being intelligent. And I use this example that you were just saying. It's like you go everywhere and ask if they can get a discount. Go to the corner coffee shop and say, do you have a discount for people who live in the area? Like, what's the worst that people say no, right? So my. I call that, in my book, I call it like, rejection is always better than regret. So it's always better to be rejected from something than to regret that you never did it. And that's a whole other principle that I really try to instill in my kids, is that you always want to give it your all or try because you never want to think, what if? And like, rejection we all get over, right? Like, yeah, it sucks for a minute or two. Like, you have a bad feeling in your stomach.
- [43:42]
A
People don't get over it sometimes. I know grown adults who come to 40 years of Zen, or they come to my girlfriend Christina's. We deepen, really, Relationship mastermind. They are still absolutely heartbroken over a high school breakup, and it's affecting their relationship 20 years later till they get over it. So sometimes rejection, actually it hurts because they don't have the coping skills.
- [44:02]
B
Only when. But what, I guess the rejection regret that I'm talking about is when you don't try for something. It's like the thinking of, like, what if I did ask that girl out? What if I did ask that guy out? And, you know, we ended up, like, being the. Maybe that would have been the love of my life. Or what if I, you know, did try for this thing? Like, not, not basically counting yourself out before you give yourself a shot, you know, like, there was a lot I, I, I really love Mark Wahlberg, right? Cause he's all about these habits. Like, he's wakes up at 2 in the morning, he does all these crazy things. And I really wanted him on the podcast. And he was like, one of these people that was like, at the beginning of my show, I was like, kind of like, this is the one person I would love to talk to. And I was sitting beside him at a dinner party, or not dinner party, like, at a restaurant. Like, he was one table away from me, and we were looking at each other, and my friends and my husband were like, there he is. There's Mark Wahlberg. Just go up and ask him to be on your podcast. And I was like, no, no, I can't, I can't. I was so scared. And they're like, why not? He's, like, right there. He's looking right at you. He's, like, literally three and a half feet away from you. Just do it. What's the word? Using my own lines on me. Like, what's the worst that can happen, Right? Like, you know, be bold, Jennifer. Be bold. Like, my entire. My word in life is be bold. And I, and I was, like, trying to get up enough courage, and then I'm like, okay, okay, okay. And I was waiting in 10 minutes and 50 minutes and 20 minutes go by, and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go to the bathroom now. When I come back from the bathroom, I'm gonna ask him. And I come back from the bathroom, and guess what happened?
- [45:35]
A
He's gone.
- [45:36]
B
He's gone. And so the what happens? I'm like, damn, why didn't I just do it? Like, I was right there. I did it. I made all these excuses. I waited too long, and then my opportunity passed by me. And so what if I did? What if he did? Come on. What if that, you know, what happens if I did ask him? So my reason why I'm bringing that up is, like, even as an adult, right? Like, you can go through all of these things and still have that what if regret, right?
- [46:01]
A
Did you tell your kids about it?
- [46:03]
B
Of course I did. It's in my book, because I still think about it to this day. It was like three or four years ago. It was like so long ago. But I'm still like, you know what? Like, here I am preaching this idea of asking for what you want in life, being bold, like taking the shot, you know, all of these things. And you know, it still happens to all of us. So we need to all practice the idea of being bold. We all have to practice. It's a muscle like anything else. Right. The second you stop using it, it atrophies. And so I'm a really big believer in this whole rejection versus regret thing. Like always try, always go after something. Never, like never count yourself out. And I also think what happens is we don't have the confidence. We have so much self doubt because we think someone else is better than us or can do it better. But honest to God, I'm sure you've probably had this situation too. The more people you meet, you realize how many people are just a bunch of ninnies and you can't believe how they got to where they are. The only difference between that person and someone else is that they believed in themselves a little bit more to go after that thing. Oh, right.
- [47:14]
A
That's so crazy. I also think you said something critical. Studies show that if you praise kids for being smart, they stop taking risk because then they'll look dumb. But if you praise them for working hard.
- [47:27]
B
That's right.
- [47:28]
A
So I've done my very best as a dad to just say, you worked so hard. You did a good job, you earned it, instead of praising intelligence. And I think my kids are pretty smart. I wrote a book on how to have smarter babies, but I like to think it worked.
- [47:43]
B
But you wrote a book on everything, but.
- [47:45]
A
Well, it was my first book ever. It took five years to write it because their mom was infertile when I met her, so I had to restore her fertility. Yeah, yeah. Like, there's thousands of babies who wouldn't have been born without that book. That's called the Better baby book. Yeah, those before the bulletproof diet. And so I. I'm. My kids don't have all the neurological crap that I had as, as kids because I was like, really concerned. I don't want to give them Asperger syndrome the way I had in ADHD and all the crap.
- [48:10]
B
Oh, wow.
- [48:10]
A
It's part of the reason that I put all this energy and time and people say you have the money to. Dude, Living on a farm on an island is an incredible amount of work. And I Did it because I do not want them to go through the hell I went through. That's why I wrote all my books. Like, don't do all. Don't feel as bad as I did. But it matters. And even then, it's like, okay, guys, you did a good job. You worked hard. You earned it. And just. That's the mantra. And I just wonder how that aligns with your philosophy on kids. Do you praise them for being smart? You do.
- [48:41]
B
Okay, I do. I totally agree with you. I think that's the problem. I did a talk at MIT a couple years ago because they were the smartest kids in the world. Smartest people in the world. And the forum that I talked on, what they were doing was. It was called Fail. Because they weren't comfortable with. There was a higher suicide rate at mit, and it was kind of increasing year after year, because when they would fail or when they wouldn't do as well as they wanted to, they could not handle it. The rejection or the feeling of being less than was so excruciating that it was beyond anything else. So MIT created this program, like I said, called Fail. And they had people like myself go up there and talk about how to be comfortable with failing. And what I find is, because these kids, they were praised all the time, they were known to be the smartest when they were younger, where they had no experience. Experience of what it would be like to be average or mediocre. And so if you're constantly praising someone, like, even the most beautiful. If the most beautiful girl in the room. Right. You're telling them how beautiful they are. How beautiful they are. They're always usually the most insecure because then they're focusing only on the one thing that they're known for. And everything else becomes. They think that they're not good enough in every other way.
- [50:10]
A
I have to ask you this. It's not so much about parenting.
- [50:13]
B
No, go ahead.
- [50:14]
A
So my girlfriend's super hot and has always been praised for being beautiful. And I can say this is a. Christina, hopefully you hear this. I get boyfriend points for that. And she said, you know, and she's a relationship person, so she deals with lots of women. She said some of the loneliest women out there are the most attractive ones because no guy will approach him. So you're attractive. Was this an issue for you?
- [50:36]
B
Well, thank you for saying that. I think that's really an interesting thing. I never. That's an interesting thing. I do believe, like, I'm. I may be attractive, but I would say that I'VE noticed that myself in life. Not because, not with me, but I think I was pretty average. And I grew into myself. I kind of like made the best. I made myself the best version, and I think everybody should do this of what I had to work with. Right. Like, I think not everyone's gonna be Giselle or Cindy Crawford, but everyone has like, certain nice character traits that they can like, then enhance, you know, double down on. Like they can double down on. And you know what, going to the gym and getting a really fit body helps a lot too.
- [51:16]
A
So you don't get, you don't experience being treated differently.
- [51:18]
B
Well, what I will say is that when you are attractive, people underestimate you in every other way. They underestimate your intelligence, they underestimate your ability to kind of function in any other way. And they only see you in one dimension. So I think that's why I think that's really important. I think what I've seen in my life and with people I know who only double down on their looks, that becomes a real problem. Which is why I think it's really important for people to really focus on other aspects. And also, by the way, if you are smart and you're attractive, like now you're really winning because then you have the ability to, to like, to, to know that other people, what people think, and then work it and manipulate it to your advantage. That's what I would say.
- [52:11]
A
Because they're going to think you're dumb because you're cute.
- [52:13]
B
Yeah, they're going to think you're dumb or they're going to. And, or you know, that because you're cute, you can pretty much get a leg up on this person and get an opportunity there. And then you should be able to, if you're smart, use it to your advantage. Like again, work what you have. Right. If you're attractive and smart, use it to your advantage. What I'm talking about are these people who were only always praised for being pretty and they never worked on anything else and they believed the hype, that that's all they were.
- [52:47]
A
One valuable skill for the younger guys watching the show. If you're around a woman who is smart and intelligent, compliment her intelligence and see what happens.
- [52:57]
B
I, I was also going to say the other thing, but you were all. The problem also was women who are smart and, and attractive men a lot of times are so intimidated. That's why they're not getting approached. Right. Or they're not getting date that they're not dating. And that's why they're lonely. And the problem also is if they're successful, then they have this masculinity sometimes that kind of, of, you know, kind of rears its ugly head. And then guys are not attracted to that masculine energy. So then the woman has to know how to dial that back, that masculinity to be more feminine. It becomes like a real, it becomes like a whole dance of. Yes, of all sorts of things.
- [53:41]
A
I, Christina and I work with people at the Masterminds every quarter, you know, two, three days where couples are sitting down talking about this. It's a, it's a big deal to be able to shift your polarity to match the situation you're in, especially if you're, you know, working hard during the day. And these are skills that if you're raised well and you're okay with failure and you're comfortable in your own skin, they become easier. And if you've never been rejected, you don't know like, you don't know what to do.
- [54:09]
B
What I would say to that is I think it's important for you to be raised with a How to instill self esteem. Especially of course, on both women and men, especially in young girls. And the best way to do that is through letting them do things on their own and following through because then they'll feel a sense of accomplishment. And like I said earlier, competence is what breeds confidence. And if you don't feel competent in doing something, you'll never feel confident and therefore have a lower self esteem. And that becomes a really bad vicious cycle later on in life.
- [54:51]
A
Well, Jen or Jennifer Cohen, which is jennifercohen.com is your URL. Thanks for giving a massively successful TED talk on something that's hard to talk about. It's hard to put, it's hard to put exact things to do about this. But I think we came up with a few very actionable things that parents can do that might be uncomfortable for parents. And if it's uncomfortable for a parent, then the parent has to do their work. Because if you're not comfortable with your kids being uncomfortable, you're the problem.
- [55:20]
B
Right, I think that's a good way of putting it. Yeah, exactly. Just go watch my TED Talk for all the salient points.
- [55:29]
A
Yeah, I'll link that in the show notes for you guys and we'll put it on social and all that. And thank you so much for having me on your show and thank you so much for writing your books and for talking about this, which isn't all the health stuff. That's your normal thing. You know, the hustle and the habits and the entrepreneurship. This is just something that matters greatly. So I appreciate you putting some energy behind it.
- [55:49]
B
Thank you, Dave. Thank you for having me on your show and sharing this message with your audience. It really means a lot.
- [55:55]
A
See you next time on the Human Upgrade Podcast the Human Upgrade, formerly Bulletproof Radio, was created and is hosted by Dave Asprey. The information contained in this podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended for the purposes of diagnosing, treating, curing, or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider carefully read all labels, and heed all directions and cautions that accompany the products. Information found or received through the podcast should not be used in place of a consultation or advice from a healthcare provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem or should you have any healthcare questions, please promptly call or see your healthcare provider. This podcast, including Dave Asprey and the producers, disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein. Opinions of guests are their own and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein. This podcast is owned by Bulletproof Media.