The Chase: "I was not going to rest"

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Hunter – Episode 5, "The Chase: 'I was not going to rest'"

Podcast: The Hunter
Produced by: BBC Studios
Air Date: November 3, 2025
Host: Anaya Echo Hawk

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Episode Overview

This episode, “The Chase: ‘I was not going to rest’,” tells the harrowing chapter of Lydia Lerma’s international pursuit to bring her son’s abuser, Andrew Vanderwaal, to justice. Lydia’s drive for closure takes her across borders and into personal and communal reckoning with trauma, injustice, and persistence. The narrative builds from a high-stakes car chase in Mexico to intimate flashbacks of Lydia's upbringing and trauma, culminating in the long-awaited arrest of Vanderwaal. Throughout, the episode explores themes of survival, the burdens of silence, the complicated machinery of justice, and the unwavering power of a mother’s love.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. High-Stakes Pursuit in Mexico

• Opening Car Chase ([00:31]-[03:52])
  • Lydia, her boyfriend Russ, and her tribal brother Ivan tail Vanderwaal through the streets of Guantanamo (Mexico) in a tense, adrenaline-fueled chase.
  • Lydia’s deep anxiety is palpable: “He’s driving crazily through the town and I’m following him.” (Lydia, [01:15])
  • To avoid recognition, Lydia dons a baseball cap and tries to stay hidden: “I don’t want him to look in his rear view mirror and see me ... I’m trying to disguise myself.” (Lydia, [02:10])
  • Russ reassures her: “‘I stalk and hunt for a living. And he’s like, this is what I do. And if I can hide from an elk, I can hide from Vanderwaal... I’m a hunter too.” (Lydia, [03:31])

2. Personal Trauma and Motivation

• Lydia’s Past and Recognition of Trauma ([05:06]-[12:30])
  • Lydia recalls her troubled adolescence—shuffling between abusive homes, falling into substance use, and surviving sexual abuse by her cousin Fred.
  • On her relationship with her father: “He would hit me closed fist, and he would pin me down, and he would be hitting me, and my face is all bloodied and swollen, my lips cut, you know, I couldn’t go to school for the rest of the week.” (Lydia, [06:16])
  • Her cousin’s violation: “He’s sexually assaulting me ... my memory of what happened is actually of me standing at the end of the parking lot watching it happen.” (Lydia, [07:59])
  • The deep grief of not speaking out: “I wish I would have said something because I could have saved so many people from going through what I went through. But it ... I didn’t.” (Lydia, [12:18])
  • Host Anaya brings context: Indigenous communities suffer disproportionate rates of sexual violence—"22% of indigenous women and 15% of indigenous men experienced childhood sexual abuse." (Anaya, [10:54])

3. Echoes and Continuation of Abuse

• Responsibility and Guilt
  • Lydia reflects on generational trauma and the weight of not acting sooner: “I knew my son wasn’t the first, but I hoped he was going to be the last.” (Lydia, [14:00])

4. Critical Decision: Letting Law Enforcement Take Over

• The Turning Point ([14:43]-[17:02])
  • Lydia debates intervening directly—if Vanderwaal suspects them, he may disappear again.
  • “If he was not arrested by the end of February, I was going to be there March 1st, and that’s when the zip ties were going to come out.” (Lydia, [16:49])
  • She reluctantly pulls back and sends gathered information to the FBI, establishing a personal deadline linked to her birthday.

5. Community Response and Law Enforcement Dynamics

• Fort Collins' Reaction and Changing DA ([17:20]-[19:03])
  • Lydia’s credibility grows as her actions become known; her victim advocate Kim Jordan reacts: “Never seen anything like that … good for her.” (Kim Jordan, paraphrased [17:41])
  • New DA Bob Persephild is supportive: “The non DA part of me was like, good for you. Go find that bastard. I’m not the most official district attorney prosecutor that there ever was.” (Bob Persephild, [18:22])

6. The Agony of Waiting

• Strain and Perseverance ([19:03]-[24:50])
  • Lydia and Russ grapple with helplessness as extradition drags, preparing for vigilante action if authorities don’t act.
  • Laying out contingency plans: “We studied the checkpoints on the rural roads of Mexico… They were willing to do that for me.” (Lydia, [20:33])
  • On being prepared for danger: “When the shit goes down, do I want to depend on Billy Bob to protect me? No. No one’s gonna protect Lydia but Lydia.” (Lydia, [22:25])
  • Waiting intensifies: “It’s excruciating pain to have to wait... There’s nothing good, it’s all bad.” (Russ, [24:27])

7. Resolution: Vanderwaal Is Arrested

• Justice Arrives ([25:12]-[27:41])
  • After Lydia’s deadline passes, the FBI finally arrests Vanderwaal. The relief is overwhelming.
  • “February 19th. I have a text message that reads, happy belated birthday. And I knew it was from Special Agent Perez. And I was so grateful. I was just screaming for joy.” (Lydia, [25:37])
  • Lydia thanks friends, family, and the “hand trembler” Janita Kennedy for her psychic insight and prayers.
  • Russ’s relief: “I’m hoping the girl I love just comes down and has just a little bit of peace and of mind.” (Russ, [27:41])

8. Celebration and Family Closure

• Lydia’s son expresses gratitude online: “Thank you everybody for sharing my mom’s post and the FBI for capturing Andrew Vanderwaal.” ([29:06])

9. Legal System Complexities and New Threats

• Back to Court – New Complications ([29:10]-[30:55])
  • Vanderwaal’s prosecution faces a snag as his public defender is conflicted out; he receives a seasoned private defense attorney, Troy Krenning, funded by the state.
  • “So it was kind of a slap in the face that that's how our system works is that Vanderwaal gets this private attorney that’s paid for by us, the taxpayers.” (Lydia, [30:13])
  • DA expresses concern about Krenning’s skill and how Lydia’s past actions could be used against the case.

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• “I was not going to rest until I had closure, and not only for my son, but I needed that closure… I needed to know that this man was not going to be out there doing this to other children.” – Lydia ([17:02])
• “No one’s gonna protect Lydia but Lydia.” – Lydia ([22:25])
• “If he was not arrested by the end of February, I was going to be there March 1st, and that’s when the zip ties were going to come out.” – Lydia ([16:49])
• “It was only because of social media that he was captured. You guys shared my posts. You shared my videos.” – Lydia ([26:27])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intense car chase in Mexico: [00:31]-[03:52]
• Lydia’s troubled adolescence and sexual abuse: [05:06]-[12:30]
• Rates of abuse in Indigenous communities: [10:54]
• Lydia’s emotional guilt and promise to not let her son carry the burden: [14:00]
• Decision to back off and let law enforcement act: [15:01]-[17:02]
• DA Bob Persephild introduced: [18:02]-[18:53]
• Lydia and Russ prepare vigilante contingency: [20:33]-[24:50]
• Arrest of Vanderwaal; family reactions: [25:37]-[28:44]
• Legal obstacles & defense attorney conflict: [29:10]-[30:55]
• Final fears about legal case jeopardy: [30:55]-[32:25]

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Tone and Language

The episode oscillates between tense, edge-of-seat suspense (during the chase) and raw, vulnerable reflection (in Lydia’s recounting of trauma). The language is candid, unfiltered, and emotionally charged, especially in Lydia’s own words and the host’s contextual asides.

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Conclusion

This episode is both a testament to the resolve of a mother and a riveting examination of the intersections between personal trauma, the fraught process of justice, and the importance of community. The narrative closes with the hope of closure tempered by new uncertainties as the legal system takes over—Lydia’s race for justice is, for now, at a crucial turning point.

Transcript

[BBC Announcer]

At the BBC, we go further so you see clearer. Through Frontline reporting, global stories and local insights, we bring you closer to the world's news as it happens. And it starts with a subscription to BBC.com, giving you unlimited articles and videos ad free podcasts, the BBC News channel streaming live 24. 7 plus hundreds of acclaimed documentaries. Subscribe to trusted independent journalism and storytelling from the BBC. Find out [e-mail] Join.

[Narrator]

BBC Studios hi, just to let you know, this episode contains very strong language and deals with sexual abuse, including a description you might find distressing. A white SUV hurdles through the chaotic streets of Guantanamo, its tires screeching as it careens around corners in its trail. A rental car lurches its way through the traffic, trying to keep up.

[Lydia]

He's driving crazily through the town and I'm following him.

[Narrator]

Lydia is pushing the car to its limits. There's no way she's going to let her son's abuser out of her sights. She's made it all the way down from Colorado to Mexico to lure him into a trap. The rent sedan vibrates with every bump in the road, and her boyfriend Russ and tribal brother Ivan are yanked from side to side. We had this blood rush going through our system. We were pursuing him on the road. The sun casts long golden shadows, making it harder to gauge the exact path Vanderwaal is taking as he barrels ahead. Lydia clenches the wheel tighter as Vanderwaal's SUV turns onto a side road and.

[Lydia]

He'S speeding all over town.

[Russ]

You know, is he just trying to outrun us now? Is he onto us?

[Lydia]

We're following him and I'm driving and I'm behind him and I'm like, okay, I don't want him to look in his rear view mirror and see me, you know, and so I'm trying to disguise myself.

[Narrator]

She doesn't want to let Vanderwaal's SUV out of her sights, but she also doesn't want him to recognize her. She turns to her boyfriend Russ in the backseat.

[Lydia]

I'm like, hey, give me the baseball cap. So I put on this baseball cap and I have my sun visor down in the vehicle.

[Narrator]

Lydia's car jolts violently as it hits a deep pothole, and for a split second she fears she might lose control. Her heart pounds, her chest tight with the oppressive mix of sweat and adrenaline.

[Lydia]

And I'm driving and I'm like, God, this guy is crazy. I'm gonna get pulled over for speeding. And I'm thinking he's so fucking arrogant, the balls. That this man has to be able to think he can just live his life the way he was. And he's not getting arrested, he's not getting pulled over for a ticket. And even if he was, is he going to be on their radar?

[Narrator]

The smells, the street noise, the lights, all of it fades as her sole focus becomes the hulking vehicle she cannot afford to let slip away. But she's worried that she's being too obvious, that Vanduaal will see them in his rearview mirror.

[Lydia]

I said to my boyfriend, I'm like, I don't know if we should be doing this. And he's like, I stalk and hunt for a living. And he's like, this is what I do. And if I can hide from an elk, I can hide from Vanderwaal. So it was like, okay, yeah, you know, we do do this. I'm a hunter too.

[Narrator]

Her foot presses down harder on the gas, the small car surging forward. Her mind fixed on a single desperate don't let him disappear. From BBC studios, this is the hunter with me. Anaya echo hawk. Episode 5 the Chase the pressure of being in Mexico is taking its toll on Lydia. For months she's been keeping things together, but now she can't help but recall flashbacks from her youth. Lydia's parents separated when she was a child, and when her dad moved away, she stayed behind in Oregon with her mom. But by the time she was a teenager, she and her mom were arguing a lot. So she thought it would be better to go and live with her dad in California.

[Lydia]

And here I was, a 14 year old girl. And truthfully, I didn't do any drugs, I didn't drink, I didn't do anything bad. I was a pretty good kid. And the first thing, when I walked into my dad's house, I see him and his girlfriend sitting on the couch and they're smoking a joint and my dad asked me if I wanted a hit and I was like, no, I don't do that.

[Narrator]

Lydia had gone from a sheltered existence at her mom's to a permissive one at her dad's.

[Lydia]

And it was only a matter of time that I started drinking. I got to the point where I was taking those little like 8 ounce plastic cups of Tupperware. I would take 8 ounces of vodka to school with me and my girlfriend and I would sit in the bathroom stalls, we'd go get sodas out of the vending machine and we'd drink our vodka with a soda. And you know, we were just being Rebellious and crazy and getting drunk at school.

[Narrator]

Even though Lydia says her dad encouraged her to drink and get high at home, he wouldn't let her go out and meet her friends.

[Lydia]

And so I would sneak out and I'd get caught. And my dad was horribly abusive. I mean, he would hit me closed fist, and he would pin me down, and he would be hitting me, and my face is all bloodied and swollen, my lips cut, you know, I couldn't go to school for the rest of the week.

[Narrator]

It's a tough home life, to say the least. But she finds solace in one hobby. Her cousin Fred is a karate instructor, and Lydia's dad allows her to have lessons with him at his studio.

[Lydia]

I would spend all day there until, like, you know, late dinner time. And then he would take me home. You know, I didn't want to be around my dad.

[Narrator]

Her cousin is a few years older than Lydia. His wife worked in a trendy store in the mall. And Fred would give Lydia presents from his wife's shop.

[Lydia]

And he would take me out to eat, and I was his favorite cousin, and, you know, I was his best student. And all these wonderful praises. And it felt really good to have that kind of positive attention. And here I am excelling at this sport. That really made me feel good.

[Narrator]

One time after training in the studio, Fred and Lydia go to their aunt's bar, still in their karate clothes.

[Lydia]

And then. He started feeding me Carlo Rossi wine. But he didn't drink. He was very into, you know, the purity of the body and all this stuff. He didn't ever pollute himself, but he sure as hell polluted me.

[Narrator]

Eventually, Lydia says she asked Fred to take her back to her uncle's house where her cousins were all watching movies together.

[Lydia]

Well, by this time, I don't even know how much wine he had fed me, but I was so drunk, I don't even really remember the drive. I remember we're at a park and were in his. A small white pickup truck, and it's got the bench seat. And I remember him pulling the lower half of my body out of the front seat of the truck. And he opens that front door, and I'm wearing my karate gi. And so the pants just come off really easily. And I can remember the ceiling of the cabin of the truck, and I can remember the dashboard. But my memory of what happened is actually of me standing at the end of the parking lot watching it happen, and he is sexually assaulting me.

[Narrator]

Afterwards, Fred took Lydia to her uncle's house, where she immediately ran to the bathroom and vomited.

[Lydia]

The toilet was just purple. And then I passed out. I don't remember the movie. I don't remember anything. I don't even know where I slept. But the next morning I got up and I went to the restroom and I apologize for the graphic details here, but my panties, the blood had glued my panties and I could not get my panties off. It hurt so bad to pull them down to use the restroom and then to urinate. The burning sensation was just excruciating. And I was shaking and I was crying and I realized what had happened and I was devastated. And I just remember thinking, how could he do this to me?

[Narrator]

She says that the next time she sees her cousin, she confronted him.

[Lydia]

And I asked him, I was like, why would you do that to me? And he said, because I love you. And my 15 year old brain thought, oh, that makes sense. And I thought, if this is all he wants my body to protect me from what my dad is doing, physically abusing me, then I guess that's okay.

[Narrator]

Lydia says that Fred went on to abuse her three more times. Each time she would be very drunk and each time she would think that someone would come along and stop it, but they never did. And I hate to be the one to tell you this, but it's not unusual in our community. The U.S. department of justice found that rates of sexual violence are approximately two and a half times higher for indigenous women than any other demographic. Indigenous youth are twice as likely to be forced into sex than white youth. One study found that 22% of indigenous women and 15% of indigenous men experienced childhood sexual abuse. Unfortunately, like Lydia and so many other native women, I have also been a victim of sexual abuse. By my mid-20s, I have been sexually assaulted three times by members of our community. And until I met Lydia, I never spoke up about this. And back when Lydia was a teenager, she never considered telling anyone about her.

[Lydia]

Abuse because it's family, you know, how am I gonna hurt my dad and my aunt and my uncle and all my other relatives?

[Narrator]

And.

[Lydia]

I wish I would have said something because I could have saved so many people from going through what I went through. But it. I didn't.

[Narrator]

All of this is racing through Lydia's mind as she follows Vanderwaal through the streets of Guatemala.

[BBC Announcer]

At the BBC we go further so you see clearer with a subscription to BBC.com you get unlimited articles and videos ad free podcasts, the BBC News channel streaming live 24. 7 plus hundreds of acclaimed documentaries from less than a dollar a week for your first year. Read, watch, and listen to trusted independent journalism and storytelling. It all starts with a subscription to BBC.com. find out [e-mail] unlimited.

[Narrator]

Lydia's pulse quickens as she watches Vanderwell's SUV dip and weave through the messy traffic. Every nerve in her body is on edge, the fear of losing him gnawing at her focus. There are two boys in that car with Vanderwaal. Every cell in her body wants him to be arrested. She wasn't able to stop her own abuser going on to hurt others. So more than anything, she wants to stop Vanderwaal from abusing other kids.

[Lydia]

I'm so sorry I didn't come forward. That's a weight I have to carry, and that's what I had hoped to prevent with what happened to my son. I knew my son wasn't the first, but I hoped he was going to be the last. She needs to stop Vanderwaal, because I knew what it was like to carry that weight for all those decades on my own. And I did not want my son to carry that burden for the rest of his life alone.

[Narrator]

Vanderwaal pulls into a side street, and Lydia goes to follow him, but her hand hesitates on the blinker. Vanderwaal is soon going to realize that he's being followed. Lydia knows that if this goes wrong and he gets away again, she'll have to start over.

[Lydia]

And I'm thinking, okay, I can confront him, and guess what? He's just gonna flee, and I'm gonna have to deal with a different agency or different law enforcement. And I'm like, okay, I have to keep my cool. And I decide at that point that, okay, we're gonna let law enforcement do their jobs.

[Narrator]

Lydia reluctantly takes her foot off the gas and allows Vanderwaal to drive off. Russ, in the backseat, looks to Lydia and reassures her.

[Russ]

We're not experienced tailors. Right? You know, so, yeah, there's a level of, okay, let's just, you know, put the brakes on.

[Narrator]

Lydia watches the taillights of Vanderwaal's SUV flash as he turns away from them. She pulls over their rental car and looks to Ivan and Russ. All the pride they felt when they found him has gone. They decide it's time to leave Guatemala and head back home. Now all Lydia can do is wait. She sent all the information she gathered about where Vandewaal's been hiding to her contacts at the FBI, and she needs to trust that he'll be extradited back to the U.S. but so far, things haven't always worked out as they should have. So she also sets herself a deadline. Her 47th birthday is in a couple of weeks time on February 13th. She tells her contacts at the FBI.

[Lydia]

That you can make the arrest before then. This would be the best birthday present. And I remember they're like, we don't know, but we'll try.

[Narrator]

Lydia doesn't tell the FBI that she has set herself and ultimatum.

[Lydia]

If he was not arrested by the end of February, I was going to be there March 1st, and that's when the zip ties were going to come out.

[Narrator]

The FBI have until Lydia's birthday to make the arrest or else she'll be back in Mexico.

[Lydia]

I was not going to rest until I had closure, and not only for my son, but I needed that closure. I needed to know that this man was not going to be out there doing this to other children.

[Narrator]

Back in Fort Collins, word has gotten out that Lydia had gone down to Mexico to find Vanderwaal. We were shocked. Lydia's victim advocate, Kim Jordan, was at her office in the Sexual Assault and Crimes Against Children unit when she heard the news.

[Lydia]

We had seen a lot of really bad cases.

[Narrator]

Never seen anything like that and never.

[Lydia]

Heard of a moment tracking somebody down. I think the general tone was, that.

[Narrator]

Was awesome and good for her. Lydia now has a new district attorney working her case, Bob Persephild. Bob is a pretty unorthodox guy. He matches his dark business suit with a cowboy hat.

[Lydia]

You know, he's a Wyoming cowboy with.

[Narrator]

A neatly trimmed goatee and a twinkle in his eye. He's very different to the old da, the one who'd warned Lydia to cool her jets when it came to taking matters into her own hands. So how would Bob react to the news of Lydia's exploits?

[Bob Persephild]

I wasn't surprised. Obviously she didn't give me a heads up on that, but it didn't surprise me because I knew who she was and I knew how motivated she was to track this guy down. And you know, honestly, the non DA part of me was like, good for you. Go find that bastard. I'm not the most official district attorney prosecutor that there ever was.

[Narrator]

Bob might not be the most official da, but even he's got to work within the system, go through the official channels.

[Bob Persephild]

Obviously, it takes a while to extradite from another country and then even just to get him back to Fort Collins. I'm basically just waiting for the guy to get caught so I can proceed with my prosecution.

[Narrator]

Back at her home in Fort Collins, Lydia is Trying her best to wait patiently while law enforcement do their job. She throws herself back into family life and her domestic routine with her son.

[Lydia]

I wanted to maintain that sense of normalcy, not only for him, but for myself. I needed that structure. I needed to feel normal. My son was still getting on the ice and still playing hockey and still having fun. And he played basketball. He also played baseball. Doing the things that kids do.

[Narrator]

But the whole time, she's hoping that the phone will ring with news from the FBI of Vanderwaal's arrest.

[Lydia]

That waiting is the hardest part, and we just have to wait, and we have to wait for law enforcement, and we're just like, please, you know, the sense of urgency for us, and that sense of closure is so critical.

[Narrator]

Her boyfriend Russ is also frustrated. He thought that getting those photos of Van der Waals in Mexico would be the end of it.

[Russ]

Boom, we've got him. You know, okay, we're gonna be able to wrap this up, get his butt back up here, and then, all right, what's happening? And then you're back to that second. Tick, tock, tick, tock, tick, tock. Nothing's happened.

[Narrator]

Russ, Lydia and her allies start preparing for the possibility that the FBI don't arrest Vanderwaal in time to meet her deadline. Her birthday is just a few days away. So they start plotting a return to Mexico to get Van Der Waals themselves.

[Lydia]

We studied the checkpoints on the rural roads of Mexico, and we looked at maps, and I had video calls with my tribal brothers, and they mapped out the way that we would get him from Guatemala to Juarez and into El Paso. They were willing to do that for me.

[Narrator]

They prepare for the idea that kidnap is no longer plan B.

[Lydia]

I have this cabinet full of firearms. Everybody always asks me the question. They're like, okay, if it came down to it, which is the firearm that you're gonna want to have? And I said, there's. If I get to choose a rifle and a handgun, it's going to be my AK47 and my 1911. So this is the firearm of all revolutionaries. You can drag this through the mud, you can go through swamps, you can go through anything, and this thing is still going to work. This one is probably my most valuable handgun. This is the 1911, which was manufactured before World War I. So, yeah, this is my Colt. It's a.45. 1911. Beautiful.45 is heavy, though. Feel how heavy that is.

[Narrator]

Oh, my goodness. Yeah, this is a weapon just even without bullets.

[Lydia]

Yeah, exactly. You could knock someone out with that.

[Narrator]

Olidia doesn't just have her AK47 and her 1911. She's an NRA certified instructor and has a full height cabinet with dozens of rifles and shotguns.

[Lydia]

For me, it's just part of why I have it is one, I'm a collector. Two, just because I can. And three, when the shit goes down, do I want to depend on Billy Bob to protect me? No. No one's gonna protect Lydia but Lydia. So I, I have my own firearms. These are our hunting rifles. This is my daughter's.25 06. This is another semi automatic. This is the SKS with the bayonet which is really kind of. That's my son's.410 shotgun which we use for hunting birds. This is actually really kind of cool. This is an Ivers Johnson, I think. This is a 10 gauge shotgun. And then there's a 12 gauge which is obviously the home defense. This is a Springfield XD. It's a 40 caliber firearm. This is a.380. It's a Walther PPK. This is a beautiful firearm.

[Narrator]

If anything were to go haywire, Lydia is more than prepared.

[Lydia]

So yeah, I'm ready. Everybody's like, we're going to Lydia's house if anything happens. Like, yeah, as long as you're on the right side, right?

[Narrator]

Day after day passes with no news. Lydia keeps being told it's not that simple, but all she hears are excuses.

[Lydia]

We have to deal with all this international relations stuff and do we have an agreement with this country or do we have an extradition agreement? Do we? And then it's just all this red tape that you're caught up in and you're just like, God, this is fucking bullshit. I should be able to go and drag his ass back and make him face justice.

[Russ]

You know, get him in a buggy, get him on something, get him back up here like now, today. And it's, yeah, it's excruciating pain to have to wait. Yeah. You know, you can't enjoy any day, any minute, any second of any of this time period. There's nothing good, it's all bad.

[Narrator]

As the pain of waiting builds, Lydia plans out her return.

[Lydia]

I knew I wouldn't be able to get a firearm into Mexico. But the thing is, who's to say I couldn't buy one once I'm there? You know, I'm sure I could have got my hands on him, but I, I didn't think about killing him because I wanted to get him here alive. I wanted him to face justice.

[Narrator]

It's well into February, and there's still no news of Vanderwaal's arrest.

[Lydia]

So I'm waiting and I'm waiting, and then my birthday comes and goes, and Valentine's comes and goes.

[Narrator]

She'd wanted Vanderwaal to be arrested by her birthday, and it hasn't happened. She starts to prepare herself for going down to Mexico and bringing Vanderwaal back herself. And then six days after her birthday.

[Lydia]

Lydia's phone pings February 19th. I have a text message that reads, happy belated birthday. And I knew it was from Special Agent Perez. And I was so grateful. I was just screaming for joy. I was crying. I was laughing. I was so happy. And I. I got on social media to share with everybody, friends and family. We got him. The hunt is over. Vanderwaal was arrested today, this morning and is being transported back to Larimer county, where he will face the charges against him. Oh, my goodness. So one of the things I want to say to all of you is thank you so much. It was only because of social media that he was captured. You guys shared my posts. You shared my videos. So thank you all, all so much in helping us catch him. It took a very brave person to contact me and to share his whereabouts.

[Narrator]

In her message, Lydia gives a special thanks to Janita Kennedy, the hand trembler.

[Lydia]

Everything that you saw with your gift came out to be true. And thank you so much for sharing your gift with me. God, I'm gonna start crying. Janita, I can't thank you enough for your prayers and your help and the details that you shared with me. Gosh.

[Narrator]

Yes.

[Lydia]

We got him. We got him today. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I can't thank you enough. Next steps are the legal system, and hopefully the district attorney will do their part. Thank you all again. I love you guys. Thank you.

[Narrator]

Russ is feeling incredible relief.

[Russ]

It couldn't happen fast enough. You know, day after day, week after week, month after month of this. That takes a toll on people. You know, I just. I'm hoping the girl I love just comes down and has just a little bit of peace and of mind.

[Narrator]

That night, Lydia takes her family out to a Texan restaurant to celebrate. She lets her son order his favorite meal, steak and shrimp.

[Lydia]

And just a sense of justice, that the system is working. As frustrating as it is and as slow as it seems, it does work. And we were just so relieved. And my son. My son was so happy. And he just hugged me and he thanked me, and that's all I needed was to know that he was so.

[Narrator]

Relieved at the restaurant. Lydia's son, who is now eight years old, says that he would like to put a message on social media to thank everyone. Lydia has tried to keep him out of the story, but now that Vanderwaal is arrested, she allows him to post a short video. Thank you everybody for sharing my mom's.

[Lydia]

Post and the FBI for capturing Andrew Vanderwaal.

[Narrator]

Thank you, Andrew. Todd Vanderwal is brought back to the US he is first taken to Denver to a federal court and then brought up to Larimer county, the same courthouse that he appeared in way back in November 2016. Vanderwaal is assigned an attorney, but there's a problem. There's another case currently going on in northern Colorado. A young man is being tried for murder in the state. And this man says that he was abused by Vanderwaal many years ago. And this man is being represented by a public defender. This means that because there is already a court appointed public attorney defending one of Vanderwaal's alleged victims, a public attorney can't also defend Vanderwaal. There's a conflict of interest.

[Bob Persephild]

When that happens, the court then appoints what's called alternative defense counsel. They're paid by the state to represent defendants that can't be represented by the public defender.

[Narrator]

Vanderwaal is being assigned a private attorney who will bill the state by the hour.

[Lydia]

Vanderwaal gets this high profile private attorney who's good at what he does. And so it was kind of a slap in the face that that's how our system works is that Vanderwaal gets this private attorney that's paid for by us, the taxpayers.

[Narrator]

DA Bob Hersefield knows Vanderwaal's attorney all too well.

[Bob Persephild]

Troy Krenning, he's a pretty savvy defense attorney. He's been around for a long time. I believe he was a police officer before he became an attorney. There's a lot of DA's that don't really see eye to eye with him. He files a lot of motions trying to look for holes in the case.

[Narrator]

Vanderwaal now has one of the best private defense attorneys representing him, someone who is going to fight hard for Vanderwaal's case. Lydia has repeatedly been warned that her interference, her social media posts, her trip to Mexico could ruin a court case. All the work she has done to get Vanderwaal extradited back to Colorado could backfire if this defense attorney manages to find holes in the case. Lydia has got this far and put her trust in the law enforcement. But now she fears Vanderwaal will escape justice at this final stage. All because of her. This was Episode five of the Hunter. The presenter is me, Anaya Echo Hawk, the producer is Emma Wetherill, sound design by Melvin Rickaby, production management by Juliet Harvey and the Executive producer is Joe Kent. We're planning on a future episode which can answer some of your questions about the series. Please email the team thehunterbc.com if you've been affected by any of the issues raised in this podcast. Details of organizations that can help are available in the episode. Description the Hunter is funded and made by BBC Studios, a commercial company that is wholly owned by the BBC.

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