Podcast Summary: The Hunter

Episode 2: The Phone Call – "I'm going to make you famous"

Host: Anaya Echo Hawk
Release Date: October 13, 2025
Producer & Writer: Emma Weatherill

Overview

This gripping true-crime episode follows Lydia Lerma’s relentless pursuit of justice after her son is abused by Andrew Vanderwaal. The episode details the harrowing moments leading up to Vanderwaal’s confession, the immediate aftermath, and Lydia’s determination when the system fails to keep her son's abuser behind bars. Key themes include a mother’s instinct, systemic shortcomings, and the desperate lengths parents go to for their children’s safety.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Pretext Phone Call: Securing a Confession

• Setting: Detective Dayton coaches Jason (Lydia’s ex-husband) through a phone call to Vanderwaal, aiming for a confession that could corroborate the child's allegations.
• Tension: Jason struggles with the emotional trauma of confronting a former friend now suspected of abusing his son.
• Notable Technique: Detective Dayton uses written prompts and body language to guide Jason.
  • Quote:
    • "At some point, you have to just cut to the chase and say, what were you doing with my child?" – Detective Dayton (03:30)
• Crucial Slip: When asked if the child was lying, Vanderwaal initially says "no" before correcting himself, hinting at guilt.
  • Quote:
    • "That slip where the voice comes out quicker than the brain can stop it… that was the first clue I had that I think we can get him." – Detective Dayton (03:48)
• Partial Confession: Vanderwaal admits to 'some criminal acts,' giving police grounds for arrest (04:20).

2. The Fallout: Emotional Aftershocks for Lydia and Jason

• Lydia’s Instinct: Lydia remembers her early suspicions about Vanderwaal and regrets not pushing harder to keep him away from her children.
  • Quote:
    • "I have that gut feeling. I can shake someone’s hand... and I can tell you when someone gives me the creeps." – Lydia (06:59)
• Blame and Guilt: Lydia reflects on the reasons her son disclosed to his father, not her, and expresses regret about possibly scaring her son away with her anger.
  • Quote:
    • "I was that mom that always said, oh, I would kill... There’s a reason my son didn’t tell me." – Lydia (08:48)

3. Police Work and Systemic Limitations

• Vanderwaal Turns Himself In: Unexpectedly, Vanderwaal surrenders at the police station, believing it safer than facing Jason’s wrath.
  • Quote:
    • "I hear that Mr. Vanderwaal has showed up at the police department lobby and said, I want to talk to someone about some bad things that I've done. I was very surprised." – Detective Dayton (09:31)
• Changing Stories: During questioning, Vanderwaal's confessions become inconsistent, suggesting a history of abuse.
  • Quote:
    • "He would initially make statements about, well, this happened once or twice, and then it was four times, and then it was six times…" – Detective Dayton (11:22)

4. The Bond Hearing: Fears of Justice Undone

• Victim Advocacy: Lydia is supported by Kim Jordan, a victim advocate, who empathizes with Lydia’s anger, identifying it as rooted in fear and guilt.
  • Quote:
    • "It came across to us as angry and sometimes vindictive... I think more accurately, it was fear and probably a little bit of guilt of not being able to protect her son." – Kim Jordan (13:52)
• Low Bail, High Stakes: Vanderwaal is released on bond, thanks to his parents, triggering Lydia’s concern he’ll flee.
  • Quote:
    • "She told us right away that he was going to skip bond, that he was going to flee..." – Kim Jordan (14:38)

5. Lydia’s Relentless Pursuit

• Coping as a Single Parent: Lydia describes the impossibility of pausing her responsibilities, even as her world falls apart.
  • Quote:
    • "How does this happen? Who does that to children? ...Okay, break for a minute and then get up." – Lydia (16:09)
• Statistics & Fight for Justice: The odds are grim—less than 3% of child sexual abuse cases end in conviction. Lydia refuses to leave anything to chance.
• Taking Initiative: Lydia begins her own investigation, determined to find more victims and evidence when the police stall.

6. Investigating Vanderwaal’s Past

• Gathering Evidence: Lydia explores Vanderwaal’s room, uncovering trophies and keepsakes belonging to various children.
  • Quote:
    • "In that box, there was a baseball cap, a baseball glove, a Nerf gun... It was like when you find the trophies of a serial murderer." – Lydia (21:56)
• Frustration with Police: Lydia’s attempts to have the evidence collected are stymied by police protocols and the wishes of another victim’s family.
  • Quote:
    • "Nobody would answer my calls. And it was just the most frustrating process because this is evidence." – Lydia (22:56)
• Detective Dayton’s Perspective: He elaborates on the delicacy required and explains why certain materials couldn’t be seized without family consent.
  • Quote:
    • "None of the items in and of themselves were criminal to possess. So we can't just seize things just to seize them." – Detective Dayton (24:14)

7. Pursuing Other Victims

• Canvasing the Neighborhood: Lydia researches Vanderwaal’s past residences and seeks out former neighbors, hoping to identify additional victims.
• Parental Reluctance and Disclosure: Most families deny abuse occurred; only one is willing to engage with police.
  • Quote:
    • "However, the other child was not ready to speak yet... and that's okay." – Lydia (26:48)

8. Healing and Resilience

• Therapy and Nature: Lydia supports her son with therapy and healing time outdoors, drawing on her Lipin Apache heritage.
  • Quote:
    • "Here was my son, so happy to be on his Tennessee walker horse on Traveler... That horse saved him." – Lydia (29:54)

9. System Failure: Vanderwaal Flees

• Missed Hearing: Vanderwaal does not show up to a court date, confirming Lydia’s predictions.
  • Quote:
    • "We're waiting and waiting and waiting... he doesn't show up. And finally, the court determines that he failed to appear." – Lydia (31:20)
• Law Enforcement Frustrations: Lydia’s faith in the system collapses, vowing to take the hunt into her own hands.
  • Quote:
    • "They had told me to sit back. I did, and look what happened. He slipped through their fingers. And no, I was done dealing with their bullshit." – Lydia (32:20)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• Detective Dayton (on getting a confession):
  • "At some point, you have to just cut to the chase and say, what were you doing with my child?" (03:30)
• Lydia (on maternal instinct):
  • "I have that gut feeling. I have that radar in me... And I had that feeling." (06:59)
• Kim Jordan, Victim Advocate (on Lydia’s emotion):
  • "I think more accurately, it was fear and probably a little bit of guilt of not being able to protect her son." (13:52)
• Lydia (on taking matters into her own hands):
  • "I'm gonna make you famous. I'm gonna spread this word, and I'm gonna track down every victim..." (17:50)
• Lydia (on finding evidence):
  • "When I found all of these items, I remember I was shaking. I was absolutely shocked." (21:56)
• Detective Dayton (on procedural limitations):
  • "None of the items in and of themselves were criminal to possess. So we can't just seize things just to seize them." (24:14)
• Lydia (on horseback healing):
  • "That horse saved him." (29:54)
• Lydia (on her resolve):
  • "I was done dealing with their bullshit. And I was gonna do everything I could to track him down." (32:20)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Time | Segment Description | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:01-05:18 | The pretext call, coaching from Detective Dayton, and securing Vanderwaal’s partial confession | | 06:59-09:17 | Lydia’s gut suspicion and maternal guilt | | 09:31-11:58 | Vanderwaal turns himself in, confession inconsistencies, and reaction from Lydia and police | | 13:34-15:37 | Meeting Kim Jordan, the bond hearing, and Lydia’s distress over low bail | | 16:09-17:50 | Lydia’s struggle to maintain normalcy and decision to seek more victims/evidence | | 18:22-24:14 | Lydia’s investigation, discovery of physical evidence, and frustrations with law enforcement | | 25:34-27:01 | Efforts to identify other victims, revealing the scale of grooming by Vanderwaal | | 29:06-31:01 | Lydia and family finding healing in the outdoors, coping through heritage and nature | | 31:12-32:33 | Vanderwaal flees, the system fails, and Lydia commits to “the hunt” |

Conclusion

This episode is a testament to the power of a mother’s love and gut instinct, alongside the heartbreak and frustration felt when the justice system falters. Lydia’s journey pivots from family ordeal to organized investigation, challenging both her own limits and the failures of law enforcement. The episode ends on a note of determination: when the authorities lose track of Vanderwaal, Lydia vows to hunt him down herself.

Tone: Raw, emotional, urgent—and deeply personal.

If you or someone you know is affected by issues raised in this podcast, support resources are provided in the episode description.