The Hunter: Episode 4 – The Predator: "Death would be too easy"

Date: October 27, 2025
Host: Anaya Echo Hawk
Produced by: BBC Studios

Episode Overview

This gripping episode follows Lydia Lerma on a high-stakes international manhunt in search of her son's abuser, Vanderwaal. Refusing to wait for justice, Lydia’s pursuit takes her from the mountains of Colorado to the streets of Mexico, enlisting the support of her tribal community and testing her own moral boundaries. The story powerfully explores survival, the fierce determination of a mother’s love, and the complexity of seeking justice outside the law.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Parallels Between Hunting and the Manhunt

• Opening in the Rockies: The episode begins with Lydia, Russ (her boyfriend), and friends hunting elk in the snow. Their methodical tracking and ambush mirror Lydia’s approach to tracking Vanderwaal.
  • Lydia (on her spiritual approach):

    "I'm in a constant meditative state. So I'm in, like, this state of constant prayer." (03:47)

  • She prays to Yusn, the Apache creator, for guidance, linking her cultural practices with her personal quest for justice.

2. Lydia’s Arrival in Chihuahua, Mexico

• Lydia receives urgent messages from the FBI advising her not to take matters into her own hands:
  • FBI Special Agent Jones:

    "I know your desire to get this guy, but do not go to Cuatmoc... There is nothing positive you can accomplish which is not already in the process of being accomplished." (05:56)

  • The FBI stresses the risk:

    "My guys in Mexico are guests, so they have no jurisdiction and will not be able to provide assistance if something goes sideways." (06:08)

• Despite hesitation, Lydia feels compelled to act:
  • Lydia:

    “I really wanted to honor their wishes, but there was that part of me that I was like, no... We're going to do this.” (06:36)

3. Assembling the Team

• Lydia contacts Ivan Alexander De Leon, a Lipan Apache, who travels 10 hours to assist. Ivan’s loyalty to his tribal network is unwavering:
  • Ivan:

    "We are a hunting society. We've been hunters since hundreds of years. What we find us is our courage and strength to survive..." (10:13)

• The group gathers in a hotel bar to form a plan, debating various risky strategies for confronting and apprehending Vanderwaal: kidnapping, bribery, and the risks of dealing with corrupt or criminal local police.

4. Considering Extrajudicial Actions

• The team discusses bribery and even violence as options:
  • Lydia (on bribery):

    “I said what do you think it's going to be to bribe the president of Guatemal to get law enforcement to make the arrest? And I go, what do you think, like, $5,000?” (13:52)

  • Ivan’s friend chillingly warns:

    “With $5,000, he'd be buried and never found again.” (14:24)

• Lydia faces the moral gravity of these options:
  • Lydia:

    “I absolutely contemplated it... You'd never see or hear of him again.” (14:46)

  • But ultimately rejects violence:

    “Death would be too easy. Because I want this man to wake up every morning for the rest of his life and look in that mirror and know that the world knows he's a pedophile.” (15:02)

5. Crafting a Hunting Strategy

• Lydia decides to lure Vanderwaal using the “bait” of a vehicle-for-sale listing associated with him. Ivan will pretend to be a potential buyer and set up a meeting in a public place for visual confirmation and photo evidence.
  • Lydia:

    “We just wanted to get him into a public location to where we could visually see him and get images.” (16:46)

  • They choose a grocery store parking lot, allowing for backup plans if things go wrong.

6. Spiritual and Intuitive Guidance

• Lydia recalls a prophetic session with Janita Kennedy, a Navajo hand trembler. Janita’s spiritual vision includes powerful symbols: Manitoba (MB), a red roof, a barbed wire fence, a white vehicle, and a fox in an underground tunnel—ultimately interpreted as indicators of Vanderwaal’s hiding place among Mennonites in the “Manitoba Colony” in Mexico.
  • Janita Kennedy:

    “I saw a barbed wired fence, and I knew the other side of that fence was Mexico... and then I saw MB… and a fox in an underground tunnel.” (19:10 – 21:24)

  • Lydia (upon seeing the sign):

    “And I saw that sign. I just started searching, sobbing. And I said to my boyfriend, I was like, oh, my gosh, look, there it is. Manitoba. She was right. It's right here.” (22:57)

7. The Confrontation and Emotional Toll

• Just before confronting Vanderwaal, Lydia is shocked to see local police seated nearby—highlighting the constant sense of danger and distrust in local authorities.
• The group executes their plan in the parking lot, with Ivan approaching and Lydia hiding to take photos for law enforcement:
  • Lydia:

    “I immediately tried to hide myself because I didn't want him to see me. And I got down on the back seat floorboard.” (25:44)

• Upon seeing Vanderwaal:
  • Lydia:

    “I was so angry... what an arrogant bastard to just be parading around with no consequence... I just dropped my head into my hands and... was crying, I was so upset.” (26:44)

• Lydia quickly sends photos and evidence to Agent Jones.
  • Lydia:

    “And as I'm getting pictures, I'm sending them to Agent Jones... You see it all? I have the evidence and I'm handing it to them on a silver platter.” (27:23)

8. The Stakes Escalate: Children at Risk

• The sight of children with Vanderwaal triggers Lydia’s deepest rage:
  • Lydia:

    “And there's part of me that just wants to fly out of that vehicle and wrap my hands around his neck and grab that bastard and fucking kill him.” (28:49)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On spiritual hunting:
  "I'm in a constant meditative state. So I'm in, like, this state of constant prayer.” — Lydia (03:47)
• On FBI warnings:
  “There are very real risks associated with you going though. My guys in Mexico are guests, so they have no jurisdiction...” — FBI Special Agent Jones (06:08)
• The price of extrajudicial justice:
  “With $5,000, he'd be buried and never found again.” — Ivan’s friend (14:24)
• On rejecting revenge:
  “Death was definitely way too easy.” — Lydia (15:02)
• On frustration and determination:
  “I feel like found this motherfucker and he's going down. And I'm thinking, I fucking did it. I did it. And he's... He's getting busted...” — Lydia (27:23)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:50–04:27: Opening hunt in the Rockies and Lydia’s spiritual perspective
• 05:26–07:09: Lydia arrives in Mexico; FBI warning and personal resolve
• 09:12–13:52: Forming the team and discussing legal/illegal options
• 14:24–15:33: The moral dilemma of extrajudicial actions
• 16:46–17:13: Setting the trap: the vehicle meeting plan
• 18:03–22:40: Janita Kennedy’s spiritual vision and its significance
• 23:18–28:49: Tense confrontation, photos taken, discovery of children
• 29:16–end: Lydia’s chase continues

Tone and Atmosphere

Rich with tension and emotion, this episode immerses the listener in Lydia’s world—a blend of calculated resolve and raw, maternal rage. The narrative honors the cultural strengths and spiritual resources Lydia draws upon, while also conceding the ever-present risks and moral choices that shape her journey. The dialogue is unflinching, at times raw and explicit, matching the seriousness of the real-world events.

Conclusion

Episode 4 is a powerful, emotionally charged chapter in the broader story of Lydia Lerma’s fight for justice. It delves into the razor-thin line between justice and revenge, the power of community support—both pragmatic and spiritual—and the relentless will of a mother driven to protect her family and others from harm. The episode ends on a cliffhanger as Lydia decides to follow Vanderwaal, her pursuit now more desperate than ever after realizing he is accompanied by children.