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- [00:02]
A
BBC Studios. Just to let you know that this episode contains very strong language and deals with sexual abuse.
- [00:20]
B
This is the map that we use. And you can see all the locations at are marked.
- [00:27]
A
Lydia doesn't buy her meat from the store. She goes hunting for it.
- [00:32]
B
This is Highway 40, and this is. Yeah, Canyon Road 53 here.
- [00:38]
A
Before going on a hunt, she does her research. She studies a map of the area.
- [00:42]
B
And you can look and see. See these drainages? These are game trails. You can see where they like to go. Here's the river. But they can cover a lot of ground. Think of their legs, how long their legs are and how much ground they can cover in just a short amount of time.
- [01:02]
A
As an Apache woman, hunting is part of Lydia's heritage.
- [01:06]
B
I don't get any pleasure or joy out of killing an animal. I do it because this is how I'm going to feed my family, the healthiest meat available to them. And this is how I can honor the animal and my ancestors and my children and my family and myself. I mean, I want to put good, healthy foods into my body, and this is how I do it.
- [01:34]
A
But it hasn't always come easy to her.
- [01:37]
B
You know, there's that joke that vegetarian is the Native American word for bad hunter. Well, that was me. I had to learn how to hunt, and I sucked at hunting.
- [01:49]
A
But now she's got good at it. The only meat she feeds herself and her family is from animals that she's harvested herself. And she's got three deep chest freezers stocked with meat from elk, deer and antelope. She's got good at hunting by getting into the mind of the elk and looking at the map of the area from their perspective.
- [02:10]
B
You ask yourself, okay, if I was this giant elk and I don't want a hunter to get me, where am I going to go? Well, I'd want to stay low in these timbers in this area. These are all cedar. And I'd want to stay where there's vegetation, where I can eat and think, okay, where's the water source? Where are they going to want to go to get water? And you just follow these drainages to where they're going to go, and then you just track them.
- [02:44]
A
Lydia will try and use these hunting skills to track down Andrew Vanderwaal, the man that abused her son.
- [02:51]
B
Because I was not going to rest until I found Vanderwaal.
- [03:05]
A
From BBC Studios, this is the hunter with me. Anaya Echohawk Episode 3 the Prey It's January 2017, and local journalist JC Marmaduke is working at the Coloradoan newspaper, Jaycee is in her 20s and keen to work on a big story. Jaycee discovers that Andrew Vanderwaal has failed to appear in court, and there's a warrant out for his arrest.
- [03:48]
C
In my short career as a journalist, I'd never seen this happen where someone, you know, just failed, just stopped appearing for their court dates.
- [03:57]
A
And then Jaycee receives an email from Lydia. Jaycee gives her a call back, and.
- [04:03]
C
It was really unusual to hear from someone who was involved in the case. I mean, she made a really strong impression. She's, like, one of the most memorable people I've ever met. It really, really hit home for me just to hear that kind of desperation in someone's voice, even over the phone. It's really striking. Sometimes the people involved in those stories don't feel like real people. So this was one of those moments of like, oh, my God, this is not a press release. This is a family and a mother, and this is a big story.
- [04:39]
A
Jaycee goes to her editor and pitches to them that she could follow this story. She has her own reasons for caring about this case of a child who was abused and their perpetrator running from justice.
- [04:51]
C
It felt very personal to me. I was sexually abused as a child by someone I trusted, and.
- [05:00]
D
I.
- [05:03]
A
I.
- [05:03]
C
Know what it feels like when the person who hurt you doesn't face any consequences. So it certainly hit home for me the fact that Vanderwaal had left this kind of trail of destruction and destroyed families behind him and then just ran away.
- [05:29]
A
Jaycee's editor agrees that they should follow this story. And Jaycee is like a dog with a bone. She writes as many articles as she possibly can to give the case publicity. She wants to keep the story in the police and public's mind.
- [05:43]
C
So I was calling police, like, I mean, I think I was following up with them at least every couple of weeks for months, saying, where is this guy?
- [05:52]
A
Good question. Where is this guy? And is anyone looking for him?
- [06:01]
E
Generally, when people don't show up to court, they haven't taken extreme measures to do so. They just don't go to court and wait till they're picked up.
- [06:12]
A
Usually it's not that big of a deal when someone doesn't turn up to court. They're just hanging out in their friend's basement, and pretty soon, they get picked up by a patrol officer. But the days turn to weeks, and still Vanderwaal isn't found. He's gone into hiding. And Detective Dayton fears It won't be easy to find him.
- [06:30]
E
How do you get the word out? How do you get information about where someone has gone if they aren't using a credit card or a cell phone or all the normal things that we would use to track somebody down?
- [06:43]
D
The criminal justice system is. It's frankly just not fair.
- [06:47]
A
Kim Jordan is Lydia's victim advocate.
- [06:50]
D
Police don't usually actively search for somebody who has a warrant for their arrest. They just don't have the resources to be out on the street banging down doors, looking for people. That doesn't mean they're not on the lookout. It's just not something that they're able to actively staff. So with a case like Van der Waal, they did some initial sort of research just to see if he was kind of at the. At the usual places, and then they sort of dropped it from there in a lot of ways.
- [07:24]
A
Lydia hasn't dropped it. She is going to use her hunting skills to try and track down Vanderwaal, and she has an expert helping her.
- [07:34]
E
My name is Russell Lambert. I go by Russ out here in Colorado. I'm an outfitter, so I take people on horses, horseback, vacations, fly fishing trips, and then hunting trips in the fall.
- [07:46]
A
Usually dressed in a baseball hat and a flannel shirt, Russ is one of those men who is unassuming indoors, but when you get him in the outdoors, he seems to grow a foot and he looks tall and rugged. Russ and Lydia have been dating since her divorce.
- [08:02]
E
We're opposite in a lot of areas. She's really engaging, you know, and she's outgoing. I'm probably. I would lean to the quiet side. She would tell you, probably. We don't align politically, but the one.
- [08:17]
A
Thing they have in common is that they are both hunters.
- [08:20]
E
The first time I had her out on a hunt, she knew exactly what to do. It's in her. She's bred that way.
- [08:28]
A
So Russ supports Lydia in tracking down Vanderwaal.
- [08:31]
E
I got some pretty good instincts.
- [08:33]
A
Russ says those instincts picked up on a weird vibe around Vanderwaal. He first met him when Lydia introduced Russ to her ex.
- [08:41]
E
As I'm getting introduced to the ex husband, there's this other guy. For me, it's like, who in the hell is he? And he's like, posturing, you know, the rooster, whatever. It's. It was an uncomfortable situation for me, and, you know, I got to kind of focus on who this ex husband personality is. But there's this other guy here. For me, it's like, I don't need to waste my time with this other guy. Yeah, he's just a bad person, just a creep.
- [09:17]
A
So when Vanderwaal goes on the run, Russ does what he can to support Lydia.
- [09:22]
E
Okay, what can we do right now? How can I help? You know, who can we call? Who do we need to see?
- [09:28]
A
Just like they do before going out hunting, Lydia puts herself into the mind of her prey, and she starts piecing together a map of where she thinks Vanderwaal might be finding shelter.
- [09:38]
B
I knew he had contacts in Los Banos, California. He had contacts in Michigan, where he's from. He had contacts in Lawton, Oklahoma. He had contacts in San Antonio, Texas. So I started kind of mapping together where he could potentially be.
- [09:59]
A
She uses the information she gleaned from going through his belongings, and she follows his tracks online.
- [10:05]
B
I'm looking at comments on social media from people, and some of the comments are, oh, yeah, he stayed with us. And, oh, yeah, he was with us. People from the church, his friends. And I'm reading those comments, and I'm sharing that with law enforcement. Like, hey, you know, here's a potential. He could be with these people. You need to talk to them.
- [10:30]
A
A few days later, the district attorney calls Lydia and the children's father, Jason, into his office. Lydia assumes that they must have followed up on her leads and have news about Vanderwaal. But instead, the district attorney has a warning for her. He tells Lydia that she shouldn't be posting on social media or fishing for victims.
- [10:50]
D
We had warned her that her talking about the facts of the case could be detrimental if we decided to go to trial, because basically what it does is puts different versions of the story out there.
- [11:03]
A
Victim advocate Kim Jordan is worried about Lydia sabotaging the case.
- [11:07]
D
So if you're a defense attorney, the more stories that you have, the better, because you can pick somebody apart and say, well, last time you told me this, and last time you said this, and now you're saying this. And so we had tried to kind of explain that to her. The time we had that conversation, it didn't go well.
- [11:24]
B
He kind of lays into me, like, to back off on all the digging and to let him do his job. And when we walked out of there, my children's father looked at me and he said, did you get the message there? He said, I'll cool your jets. And I'm like, yeah. And excuse my language, but I was like, fuck them.
- [11:53]
A
Through gritted teeth, Lydia eases up posting online. But the days turn into weeks, and still there's no sign of Vanderwaal. It's an incredibly frustrating time, but Lydia concentrates on supporting her son.
- [12:08]
B
My job was to keep the structure at home and the routine, and to get him to his scout meetings, to get him to hockey practice, to get him to all of his sporting activities. I wanted to maintain that sense of normalcy, not only for him, but for myself. I needed that structure. I needed to feel normal. I needed to feel like, okay, yes, this terrible thing has happened, but guess what? We're still a family, and my son is still a child, and he still needs those activities to enrich his life and to grow.
- [12:44]
A
But even though Lydia is trying to keep things routine, she notices others around her aren't treating them like a normal family. She feels abandoned by some of her friends.
- [12:54]
B
They don't know how to deal with it. And then there's those judgments of, oh, my gosh, that child's been sexually abused. I don't want that child playing with my child. And it's just like, wow, you know, my child didn't do anything wrong, and my child is getting help, and I'm getting help, and we're going to be okay.
- [13:12]
A
It breaks Lydia's heart that her son is being treated this way, because she knows all too well what it feels like to be ostracized.
- [13:21]
B
I grew up outside of Corvallis, Oregon. I grew up in a little community called Adair Village, and it was a former military base. Turned into land like this little residential area, it was considered more lower income.
- [13:37]
A
Her parents wrestled with their Apache identity when they themselves were kids. It was public policy to assimilate to Western culture, putting behind Apache language and traditions. Lydia's mom had gone to a segregated school, where she was forced not to acknowledge her indigenous heritage. And she carried this trauma into Lydia's childhood.
- [13:57]
B
My mom wouldn't let me have long hair for the longest time. There's that what I call internalized racism, you know, she wanted me to assimilate as much as I could, as much as my dark hair and dark skin would allow me.
- [14:11]
A
But her father had a different take. He always fostered connection to their heritage. He used to take her to the Chicano Indian center just outside their village to be part of the native community.
- [14:23]
F
We used to have powwows, and we.
- [14:25]
B
Used to have community events and basketball games and all kinds of things there. And he would share stories, and he was very prideful.
- [14:36]
A
When Lydia was in fifth grade, a new girl starts at her school. They soon become best friends. So Lydia wants to do what all 5th grade girls want to do with their besties.
- [14:46]
B
I wanted her to have a sleepover at my house, and her parents wouldn't allow her to stay because of that Chicano Indian center. And they said there was a history of violence. I remember that it impacted me so significantly. I later wrote about it in graduate school, and I titled it the Day that I Quit Being Indian. Because I was so embarrassed and so ashamed that my friend couldn't spend the night with me. And it was so hurtful. As a fifth grader, you know that here's my best friend whom I absolutely adore and want to spend time with, and she couldn't come to my house. You know, call it what it is, racism.
- [15:32]
A
So when other kids won't play with her son because of what's happened to him, the pain runs deep. Lydia is struggling to keep going.
- [15:41]
B
I used to have my gun cabinet right outside my bedroom door here, and literally the top was right here, and I had my concealed carry firearm on it. There wasn't a day or a time that I went in or out of the store and didn't think about grabbing that firearm and put it to my head. It was that painful. I contemplated that every single day.
- [16:23]
A
It's Friday, May 12, 2017, and Lydia is at work when she gets interrupted by a text from the children's father, Jason. It's now been four months since Vanderwaal jumped Bailey. Jason asks her if she's read the local paper today, the one that J.C. marmaduke writes for, and he said, have.
- [16:42]
B
You seen the Coloradoan? I was like, no. And sure enough, there's an article that states that they had found his vehicle abandoned on a bridge in El Paso, Texas.
- [16:57]
A
Vanderwaal's car has been found right on the border with Mexico. This intel will really help Lydia narrow down her search. That map that she's been constructing of where he might be hiding can become much more accurate now that she knows he's headed south. But as she reads on, she gets angrier and angrier. The article says that the police found the vehicle back in March.
- [17:21]
B
And I'm reading about it in May. I was fucking livid. I. I was so angry. I'm like these. And. And I'm sorry, but I'm like, these motherfuckers. I'm like, they should have contacted us. They should have let us know victims have rights. And I felt like they were not sharing information with us. And it was. I was so frustrated. I was so angry. And I'm like, these bastards. After the. They tell me to fucking Cool. My jet. And I was just. I was so irate.
- [17:58]
A
JC can't believe that Lydia found out about it from her article.
- [18:02]
C
Jaw dropping to think that I. I mean, if the police didn't tell them independently and they had to find out from my story, like, when were they going to be informed?
- [18:16]
A
Lydia heads home from work that night and opens up Facebook on her laptop.
- [18:20]
B
I wrote this plea on social media and I just said, you know, this is what's happened. I need your help to track this guy down.
- [18:28]
A
She's done waiting for law enforcement to do their job. She doesn't care about the warning she got from the district attorney to cool her jets and not post on social media. She just wants to find Vanderwaal.
- [18:40]
B
I need people's help. I needed my Facebook army to help me track this man down.
- [18:48]
A
She follows up a couple days later with another post. On Mother's Day, instead of keeping quiet, Lydia is broadcasting to the world.
- [18:57]
F
Hi, friends and family. It's been a really, really hard few months for me.
- [19:03]
A
In the video, Lydia is sitting at a table with a glass of water and a small page of handwritten notes. Her neat hair is tucked behind her ears. She's wearing a crisp white T shirt under a black NRA vest.
- [19:16]
F
I spent the entire weekend really, really angry. I was just shaking. I was so mad at the system. I'm not going to sit back anymore.
- [19:28]
G
And be silent about this. I was afraid to come forward because I was afraid of people judging my son and I was afraid of what they might do or say to him. But you know what? My son did nothing wrong. He did absolutely nothing wrong. He's a child and he was just a little boy. He is a little boy. And I'm sick and tired of people putting a stigma on victims. I'm sick and tired of people shaming us into silence. That's what these predators do. They shame us into silence.
- [20:12]
A
Lydia isn't looking at her notes anymore. Her tear filled eyes look directly into the camera.
- [20:18]
G
I spent months where I could not sleep unless my son was next to me because that was the only way I knew he was safe. I drop him off at school every day and I cry when I drive away because I can't be there to protect him 24 hours a day. It sucks. It's a horrible, horrible feeling to know that I failed my child.
- [20:44]
A
The camera moves in closer to her face.
- [20:47]
G
So I'm gonna stand for my son now. And I'm asking you guys to stand with me and please help me get the word out. Get his face all over Juarez, all over Chihuahua.
- [20:58]
F
Any information you have, please contact the Fort Collins city police.
- [21:03]
B
And just get.
- [21:04]
F
His image out there, please. Thank you for listening and watching this, and I will keep you all updated. Any information I find, I will share with you.
- [21:14]
B
Thank you.
- [21:16]
A
Now Lydia is on a mission.
- [21:18]
B
I had people translate my plea into Spanish, and I started posting it in Juarez and in different cities.
- [21:25]
A
But she doesn't limit her search to south of the border.
- [21:29]
B
He could have just, you know, posed a ruse by abandoning his car. And maybe he did. Go back up to Michigan.
- [21:36]
F
Help the Colorado task force, help them get his image out there.
- [21:41]
A
She tags herself on Facebook in any town where she thinks Vanderwaal might be.
- [21:45]
B
Hiding out, whether that's Hudsonville, Michigan, or Lawton, Oklahoma, or Los Banos, California.
- [21:50]
F
Help me in finding him.
- [21:52]
B
I would connect with, like, the city chief, chat groups of those towns, and I would post about him.
- [21:57]
F
Call 911 if you see him. Get report Todd Vanderwaal's image. Any leads that you have.
- [22:03]
A
She's hoping that someone in that town will see her post and recognize Vanderwaal.
- [22:07]
F
Share with them. Share them with me. I will get them to the right people.
- [22:10]
A
Ross is supportive of Lydia searching, but the online world is foreign to him.
- [22:15]
E
Yeah, there's no way I can help her with any of that stuff. It's Lydia that did the digging. I mean, there's so many unknowns. Where is he? Where'd he go?
- [22:23]
F
I need the world to see who he is because he is on the run. And as long as he's out there, children are at risk. And for all of you sick pedophiles that are out there, it will catch up to you. You will pay for what you have done, because I am not going to back down.
- [22:41]
A
People. Start messaging back.
- [22:43]
F
I got a message today from a total stranger I did not know, but he knew Andrew Todd Vanderwaal. He knew of him, and he messaged me. And he didn't have any information as to where he might be, but that just shows that the information is getting out there. So please keep sharing my post.
- [23:03]
A
Other people contact Lydia with their own experiences of abuse.
- [23:07]
F
I appreciate you guys being so open and honest about what has happened to you on your personal life lives. And it makes me feel not so alone.
- [23:20]
C
I mean, she's definitely got that mama bear thing going on. I think she's the kind of mother that a lot of people would want because she fights for her kids in. In such an intense way.
- [23:31]
A
Meanwhile, JC Marmaduke is keeping the story live in the old media. She publishes more articles about the case and what Lydia's been doing to find Vanderwaal.
- [23:40]
C
It really affected me the way that Lydia was advocating for her son because it's kind of what any kid who has been hurt in that way would want as someone to advocate for them. And I didn't have that. And so many countless other kids didn't have that either.
- [23:58]
A
Lydia keeps plugging away on social media.
- [24:01]
F
I'm getting some rest and some relaxation. I'll be out horseback riding, cutting trail this weekend. Any detail that you have that you may not think might be important can help. Okay, thank you.
- [24:15]
A
After her Mother's Day plea, she posts a month later on Father's Day.
- [24:19]
F
Have a great weekend and happy Father's Day to all of you wonderful dads out there.
- [24:23]
A
She posts on 4th of July.
- [24:24]
F
It seems like when I'm not rushing my kids to basketball practice or games or baseball practice or Cub Scout camps or some other activity, I end up thinking about Andrew Todd Vanderwaal and the fact that he's still out there. So I've spent a lot of today just freaking crying, which is just stupid. I can't allow him to take away my Fourth of July weekend. But that's what happens when your child is a victim of sexual abuse.
- [24:56]
A
She keeps posting throughout the summer.
- [24:58]
F
I just wanted to let you guys know that I'll keep you updated as we get more information. Past Labor Day, there are several leads that have come up through people that have contacted me directly and people that have contacted the Colorado Task Force, and they are actively following up on those leads.
- [25:16]
A
Finally, Lydia feels like she's getting somewhere. She hopes and prays that these leads will get them closer to finding Vanderwaal. In the summer, Lydia takes a much needed short break from her search for Vanderwaal. She wants to help her son heal, and she's going to do this in the traditional Apache way.
- [25:39]
B
I reached out to my. My medicine man and I asked him if we could do this ceremony for my son and for my family, really, for my children.
- [25:49]
A
Medicine men are healers. I'm not from the same tribe as Lydia. She's Lipan Apache and I'm Pawnee. But each tribe has medicine people. We connect with them at significant times when we need support. That could be the birth of a child, life milestones, or when we need to find our way back to our spiritual path. Lydia's medicine man lives in Mexico, and they arrange to meet just outside Phoenix, Arizona, at White Mountain Reservation for A healing ceremony. Her son up on the mountain. Lydia's tribal brothers wear regalia of large crowns and buckskin leggings. They have bells around their waists and dance in their moccasins. Their bodies are painted white and their faces are covered with black cloth. The crown dancers perform in a circle around Lydia's son while the drummers sing.
- [26:42]
B
This was them praying for my son and really releasing all of that pain and taking that burden from my boy because he's just a child. He's a baby, you know, he's wearing his little cowboy boots, jeans and a, you know, western shirt.
- [27:04]
A
Lydia's 7 year old son has his Curious George stuffy with him for the the ceremony.
- [27:09]
B
My medicine man told me that my son will hear things, whether it's in the wind or he'll hear things in nature. And he'll know that that's the presence of our ancestors and of our gods and the spirits that the crown dancers call to help him heal. And I had this amazing feeling with the elk crown dancer and the elk is really amazing medicine. There's something very powerful about the elk here in North America. And so I felt this amazing sense of healing. And I could feel, you can feel that energy of that safety and that, that love and caring that each of those crown dancers really brought into that ceremony for my boy.
- [28:14]
A
They return from the healing ceremony to bad news. The leads that Lydia thought might help them track down Vandewal are false starts. They're no closer to finding him. Halloween comes and goes. Lydia keeps posting on social media, trying to spread the word in the hope that someone will recognize Vanderwaal, but nothing. Thanksgiving comes and goes. Christmas, New Year's. Still no information as to where he is. It's now been almost a whole year since Vanderwaal went missing. Then, in the first week of January 2018, a stranger contacts Lydia on Facebook.
- [28:55]
B
Hello. I have seen that you are looking for Andrew Todd Vanderwaal. I have some information about him if you're still looking for him. I get a tip, an anonymous tip on social media.
- [29:06]
A
The tipster says they live in Mexico.
- [29:09]
B
I know I would desperately want to find him if that happened to my child. He is in the town of Quahudamoc, Chihuahua in Mexico. He goes by the name of Charlie.
- [29:19]
A
But the tipster was aware of Vanderwaal's real name and searched for him online. They'd come across J.C. marmaduke's articles and Lydia's Facebook posts.
- [29:29]
B
You Google his name and guess who pops up? It's me.
- [29:33]
G
You're gonna see me.
- [29:35]
B
You know, I had a million things posted about him. And so they were able to make that connection.
- [29:41]
A
Lydia passes this information to the FBI's Fugitive Task Force, and they kind of.
- [29:46]
B
Coach me through how to keep this person engaged, how to get more information. And we're going through the process in real time. Okay, ask this question and ask this question and get this information and get this information. Is Vanderwaal using a phone? Yes. Please send me his number, but do not let him know that I know where he's at. So I'm going through that process. And of course, I was a little skeptical because I had had a couple leads before that that weren't valid. I didn't want to get my hopes up too high.
- [30:16]
A
But this source is sounding very credible. It looks like Vanderwaal is now hiding out in a small town in Mexico. Lydia expects the FBI to race down there, just jump on the next flight, arrest Vanderwaal, and bring him back to Colorado to face justice. But that doesn't happen.
- [30:34]
B
And of course, I'm not a very patient person. And I'm waiting and I'm waiting, and I'm just at my wit's end.
- [30:45]
A
Lydia sets herself a deadline for a couple of weeks time. January 17, 2018. That'll be exactly one year since Vanderwaal jumped bail. If he's not found by that date, Lydia will take action.
- [30:58]
B
I was going to quit my job, cash out my retirement, and I was gonna head to Mexico to track him down.
- [31:05]
A
Lydia spends a couple of weeks trying to be patient, waiting for news from the FBI. But January 17th comes and goes, and there's still no update.
- [31:15]
B
I can't focus on my work. I can't. I'm just like, I need to get down there. I need to get eyes on this guy. I need to show the FBI this is it. This is where he's at. And I remember one weekend my boyfriend came to see me, and he says, well, what do you want to do? And I look at him and I said, I want to go to fucking Mexico. And he's like, let's go.
- [31:41]
E
As soon as I said, well, let's go to Mexico. That's the license she needed. Okay, let's go get something done. We've exhausted every other reasonable thing in our brains. We need to go do this. I'll put it this way versus standing there watching the back of her head and her texting and doing whatever she is on her computer and on her phone. This is somewhere where I can be of some sort of help, some sort of use. All right, you know, let's take this somewhere. Let's go figure this out.
- [32:15]
B
And I literally bought the tickets right then and there and we were flying out that night.
- [32:20]
A
Lydia emails her contact, contact at the FBI to say that she's done waiting.
- [32:25]
B
And I told them, hey, this is what's going on. I'm heading to Mexico. See ya.
- [32:36]
A
This was episode three of the Hunter. The presenter is me, Anaya Echo Hawk. The producer is Emma Wetherill, sound design by Melvin Rickaby, production management by Juliet Harvey, and the executive producer is Joe Kent. You can contact the team on thehunterbc.com if you've been affected by any of the issues raised in this podcast. Details of organizations that can help are available in the episode. Description the Hunter is funded and made by BBC Studios, a commercial company that is wholly owned by the BBC.