The Trial: "Here’s my redemption"

Summary

The Hunter – Episode 6: "The Trial: Here’s my redemption"

Host: Anaya Echo Hawk (BBC Studios)
Date: November 10, 2025

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Overview

This gripping episode of "The Hunter" follows the climactic developments in Lydia Lerma’s tireless pursuit of justice after the man who abused her son is brought to trial. From the tension of bail hearings and courtroom confrontations to the deep emotional impact on all involved, the episode explores the trial’s complexities, the persistence required for justice, and the aftermath—including Lydia’s own healing, advocacy work, and a personal redemption story. The podcast unflinchingly addresses themes of survival, justice, and the enduring power of a mother’s love.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Bail Hearings: Justice or Another Escape?

• [01:14-02:15] Lydia and local reporter JC Marmaduke are infuriated after learning that Andrew Vanderwaal’s first bail hearing was held without public notice; bail is set at $100,000—enough that Lydia worries he could escape again, as he did before.
  • Lydia: "I was like, oh, hell no. Because he's gotten out on bail before and he fled." (02:15)
• [03:16-07:47] With DA Bob Percifield’s help, Lydia successfully secures a second bail hearing, where she pleads directly to the judge to recognize the extent of what it took to find Vanderwaal. DA Percifield pushes for a $1 million bond, citing Vanderwaal’s flight risk.
  • DA Bob Percifield: "Judge, this guy already fled once, and he fled the country. Who knows where the hell he's going to end up?" (06:30)
• [07:17-07:47] Judge Susan Blanco publicly acknowledges her earlier mistake in setting low bail, apologizes to Lydia, and raises the bond to $750,000—a historic amount for Larimer County.
  • Kim Jordan (Victim Advocate): "She said, you told me that he was going to flee, and I didn't take it seriously...then she set his bail at some astronomical amount." (07:34)

2. Preparing for Trial

• [09:19-12:06] Despite Vanderwaal’s taped confession and status as a fugitive, DA Percifield explains no verdict is guaranteed with a jury, even in seemingly clear-cut cases. Defense attorney Troy Crenning aggressively contests the case, filing multiple motions and even accusing police of misconduct.
  • DA Bob Percifield: "I've gone to trial when the guy confessed ... and [the jury] found him not guilty." (09:38)
  • The defense attacks Lydia’s credibility, painting her as "a vigilante gunslinger" and seeking to limit trial publicity.
    • Lydia: "They could paint me however they wanted...if that's all the defense you have, you don't really have a case." (11:30)
• Case delays and legal maneuvers increase family stress and community attention.

3. The Arraignment & Plea

• [12:17-13:53] At the September 2018 arraignment, Vanderwaal pleads "not guilty," forcing Lydia and her son to prepare for the trauma of testifying at trial.
• [14:08-16:52] The prosecution leverages evidence from Vanderwaal’s seized laptop, containing extremely disturbing material, hoping to encourage a guilty plea and avoid a painful trial for the victims.
  • DA Bob Percifield: "The things you can't even imagine." (15:00)
  • After the judge denies the defense's request for Vanderwaal to review the evidence personally, a plea deal is reached.

4. Sentencing & Emotional Aftermath

• [19:07-22:44] On March 1, 2019, sentencing day arrives. The courtroom is packed—with Lydia’s "army" of supporters and the families of other victims. The event is deeply emotional for all.
• Lydia’s young son courageously delivers a victim impact statement to the court.
  • DA Bob Percifield: "The courage that it took for a...young man to stand up...Impressed is not even a big enough word." (21:50)
  • Lydia: "I was so proud of him. He was the cutest thing and he was so brave." (22:44)
• Lydia describes a poignant moment as her son hugs her for comfort, which is captured in a photograph.
  • Lydia: "That was my son holding onto my hair. It just captured all of our relationship in that moment." (23:18)
• Others—including prior victims—submit impact statements; defense presents a video with testimonials supporting Vanderwaal, frustrating Lydia’s partner, Russ.

5. Justice Delivered

• [26:56-28:07] Judge Blanco sentences Andrew Vanderwaal to the maximum: 24 years to life, with no parole eligibility until 2039. There’s a sense of closure and communal victory.
  • Lydia: "We celebrated. We were so grateful. We all came out of the courtroom celebrating." (28:07)
  • Lydia: "I want him to spend the rest of his life knowing that everybody knows who he is." (28:18)
• JC Marmaduke reflects on Lydia’s extraordinary persistence:
  • JC Marmaduke: "It's so...easy to just give up...and she never did. That drive to see this through is a really rare quality in a person." (28:57)

6. The Aftereffects & Moving Forward

• DA Percifield acknowledges that "nobody wins in these cases," seeing both the justice and the life sentences survivors carry. (29:59)
• Lydia, Kim, and Bob find new bonds and friendships after the ordeal. Kim and Bob even begin dating—later marrying and starting their own family.
  • DA Bob Percifield: "We always got along...otherwise, it just beats you down." (31:42)
  • Lydia (on matchmaking): "I've always prided myself I'm a good matchmaker...I did not intentionally mean to create those matches, but yes." (32:31)

7. Lydia’s Personal Redemption & Advocacy

• [33:04-34:00] Lydia hears her own childhood abuser has been caught. She submits her own victim impact statement, and he is sentenced to 18 years to life—bringing a sense of redemption.
• Lydia’s experiences motivate her to found a support organization for other survivors and their families, creating a community and therapeutic outlet through nature-based activities.
  • Lydia: "I wanted them to know that somebody understood...I know that process. And it is the loneliest, most isolating, hurtful pain..." (34:33)
  • Lydia: "There's no shortage of work in this. There's no shortage of work." (35:09)
  • She personally answers the phone for distressed parents and survivors.

8. Recovery, Family, and Looking Ahead

• Lydia describes the ongoing healing for her family—horseback riding, time in the mountains, and Lydia’s commitment to raising her son "to be a decent man" without carrying the weight of trauma.
  • Lydia: "I made it my life's mission to raise him to adulthood to be a decent man." (37:10)
• Even as normal life resumes—with worries about grades and hockey practice—Lydia keeps perspective on how far they’ve come.
  • Lydia: "I always have to remind myself when I'm so stressed out...that it could be so, so much worse." (38:40)
• The episode closes with Lydia celebrating her son's resilience and her continued hope for their future.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Lydia on facing her son’s abuser:
  "I wanted him to see me and I wanted him to know, motherfucker, I'm the one that brought you down right here. This five foot three, 120 pound woman brought you down." (05:28)

• Judge Blanco apologizes:
  "She said, you told me that he was going to flee, and I didn't take it seriously...she should have listened to her." (07:34)

• JC Marmaduke on Lydia's character:
  "She just never gave up. That drive to see this through is a really rare quality in a person." (28:57)

• Lydia’s reflection on justice for her and her son:
  "I want him to spend the rest of his life knowing that everybody knows who he is...that is a greater imprisonment than him being dead." (28:18)

• DA Percifield on the nature of justice in such cases:
  "Nobody wins in these cases, you know. Andrew Vanderwaal's getting a life sentence...Lydia and her family are serving a life sentence. It’s never going to go away." (29:59)

• Lydia’s reason for advocacy:
  "I wanted them to know that somebody understood how they felt and what they were going through...It is the loneliest, most isolating, hurtful pain..." (34:33)

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Important Timestamps

• [02:15] – Lydia's reaction to the first bail and worry about escape
• [05:28] – Lydia confronts Vanderwaal in court
• [07:34] – Judge Blanco’s apology and major bail increase
• [13:42] – The cost of going to trial for Lydia and her son
• [15:00] – The horrifying evidence found on Vanderwaal's laptop
• [17:19] – Vanderwaal accepts a plea deal
• [21:03-22:44] – Lydia’s son gives a powerful victim statement at sentencing
• [26:56] – Judge Blanco announces the maximum sentence
• [28:57] – JC Marmaduke reflects on Lydia’s fight and what it means
• [33:17-34:00] – Lydia’s "redemption" against her own childhood abuser
• [34:33, 35:09] – Lydia’s founding of a support organization for survivors
• [37:10, 38:09] – Lydia on parenting, healing, and her hopes for her son’s adulthood

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Tone and Language

The tone blends gravitas and unfiltered emotion, fitting the sensitive and life-altering stakes of the subject matter. Lydia speaks with determination, fire, and openness, often laced with candid language and self-awareness. Other speakers—journalists, prosecutors, advocates—convey respect for her persistence, the emotional toll of the process, and the bittersweet nature of "justice" in such cases.

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Final Reflections

Episode 6 is a moving portrait of the price and power of justice in the real world. Lydia's pursuit did not just change the course of her own family’s life, but brought solace, hope, and action for a wider community of survivors. Through every legal hurdle, setback, and heartbreak, the combined force of maternal love and sheer determination forges a path toward healing—and, ultimately, a hard-won redemption.

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Transcript

[BBC Narrator]

At the BBC, we go further so you see clearer. Through frontline reporting, global stories and local insights, we bring you closer to the world's news as it happens. And it starts with a subscription to BBC.com, giving you unlimited articles and videos ad free podcasts, the BBC News channel streaming live 24. 7 plus hundreds of acclaimed documentaries. Subscribe to trusted independent journalism and storytelling from the BBC. Find out [e-mail] Join.

[Narrator]

BBC Studios just to let you know that this episode contains very strong language and deals with sexual abuse. It's been a month since Andrew Vanderwaal was arrested in Mexico and four days since he was brought back here to Fort Collins. He's due in court anytime now, and local journalist JC Marmaduke is frantically trying to figure out when I was like.

[JC Marmaduke]

Obsessively refreshing, like the court dockets and stuff like that, to figure out when he was finally gonna appear in Larimer County.

[Narrator]

Jaycee's been following the case for months for the Coloradoan newspaper, but by the time she figures out when his bail hearing is, it's too late. It's already happened.

[JC Marmaduke]

I think maybe they were trying to limit publicity or something, but they, they scheduled this hearing at the last minute. It was at 8:30 in the morning and I was clearly pissed about it because. Because I'm talking about the story about how no one was informed about it.

[Narrator]

Lydia is angry too. She wasn't told about the hearing either. And she's even angrier when she finds out what's happened in the courtroom. The district judge, Susan Blanco, has set vanderwaal's bail at $100,000. This is higher than before. 18 months ago, his bail was set at 7,500. And yes, $100,000 is a lot of money, but Vanderwaal has friends, family, connections through church. Lydia worries that it's not inconceivable that he could raise that bond.

[Lydia]

I was like, oh, hell no. Because he's gotten out on bail before and he fled.

[Narrator]

Lydia feels like she did the right thing. She didn't go down to Mexico again and drag Vanderwaal back to the U.S. she let law enforcement do their jobs. And now she is terrified that after all their work bringing him back, the law will fail her and Vanderwaal will escape justice yet again. From BBC studios, this is the hunter with me, anaya echo hawk. Episode 6 the Trial.

[Lydia]

I want to get in front of that judge and I need to explain to her what happened and explain my efforts to track.

[Narrator]

Him down with a Bit of help from the District Attorney, Bob Percifield. Lydia gets another bail hearing set for a week later, April 3, 2018. Lydia is determined to convince the judge to raise Vanderwaal's bond. The press are informed about the hearing ahead of time and JC Marmaduke makes sure she's there to see it. The courthouse is part of the Larimer County Justice Center. It's a huge, sprawling modern building that sits at the top of Fort Collins. It looks functional, with a few nods to classical architecture to give it some gravitas. JC's been following the Van der Waals story for well over a year now. She's written a series of articles on it, including a long interview with Lydia. She's gotten to know Lydia's family and she cares about them. But in all this time, she has never actually seen Andrew Vanderwaal in the flesh. At this second bail hearing, she watches him walk into the courtroom.

[JC Marmaduke]

It was kind of this weird adrenaline rush of seeing this person I spent so much time writing about and who's become sort of this kind of towering like monster figure in my head. But. But no, he's just some guy, you know, in a jail jumpsuit. And it was strange.

[Narrator]

Vanderwaal looks like this regular medium height guy with short brown hair and rectangular glasses. He's in his late 20s, but he's a bit overweight, which makes him look older than his years.

[JC Marmaduke]

I don't think he's anyone that you really would like, think twice about if you passed him on the street. He just looks like this sort of mild mannered guy, kind of shuffling along and not really looking at anyone.

[Narrator]

Jaycee's not the only media who have turned up. There's other reporters here from tv, print and radio. Across from the mall is Lydia. This is the first time she's seen Vanderwaal since he was extradited.

[Lydia]

I wanted him to see me and I wanted him to know, motherfucker, I'm the one that brought you down right here. This 5 foot 3, 120 pound woman brought you down.

[Narrator]

Lydia stands in front of the judge and makes her argument for Vanderwaal's bond to be increased.

[Lydia]

I shared with the judge what I had done, how I had traveled to Mexico, how I had tracked him down with the social media campaign, and how I shared the photographs with the FBI in real time. I really had to detail everything out for her to understand the extent of the process to get him arrested.

[Narrator]

Jaycee senses a crackle of excitement around the media area. The other journalists hadn't realized the lengths that Lydia had gone to or her incredible tenacity. Soon, it's DA Bob Hersfield's time to speak. He argues for the new bond to be set at $1 million.

[DA Bob Percifield]

And of course, the defense is like, no, no, he's not going anywhere. 100,000 will keep him in jail, blah, blah, blah. And I think the defense's argument was like, look, he's not going to post that bond, so there's no sense in increasing it. Right? I don't know if he can or not. I don't know, you know, if his family has money or he's got a, you know, a buddy or that Mennonite church or whatever that he got hooked up with. You know, if they were going to come up with the money and get him out, I didn't want that to happen. And so, you know, obviously the easiest argument for me was like, look, Judge, this guy already fled once, and he fled the country. Who knows where the hell he's going to end up?

[Narrator]

Judge Blanco listens to the defense's case for keeping the bond at $100,000 and the prosecutor's case for raising it to a million. And then Judge Blanco turns to Lydia.

[Kim Jordan]

And that's when the judge apologized to Lydia and told her that she messed up.

[Narrator]

Kim Jordan is with Lydia to support her in her role as victim advocate. She was also with Lydia more than a year ago when the judge first set Vander Wall's bail at just $7,500.

[Kim Jordan]

She said, you told me that he was going to flee, and I didn't take it seriously, told her that she was right and that she should have listened to her. And then she set his his bail at some astronomical amount.

[Narrator]

Judge Blanco sets the bail at $750,000. Relief ripples through the courtroom from the prosecution side. $750,000 is among the highest bond amount recorded in Larimer County's history. This will almost certainly mean that Vanderwaal will remain in jail throughout the trial. Jaycee and the other journalists rush out to file their stories. Over the next few days, more stories will appear on abc, Washington Times. Across local and national news, articles are written around the world. In Mexico and the uk Lydia, Bob, and Kim exit the courtroom feeling like they've won the first battle. But this is just the start. Next, they will have to convince a jury that vanderwaal's guilty.

[BBC Narrator]

At the BBC, we go further so you see clearer. Through Frontline reporting, global stories, and local insights, we bring you Closer to the world's news as it happens. And it starts with a subscription to BBC.com, giving you unlimited articles and videos ad free podcasts, the BBC News channel streaming live 24. 7 plus hundreds of acclaimed documentaries. Subscribe to trusted independent journalism and storytelling from the BBC. Find out [e-mail] join.

[Narrator]

You'd think this case would be easy. Back in 2016, Vanderwaal turned himself in to the police and confessed to sexually abusing Lydia's son. And then to top it off, he went on the run. But even with this confession on tape, DA Bob Percyfield has got his work cut out.

[DA Bob Percifield]

You never know what's gonna happen at trial. You got a jury of 12 sitting there, and you don't know exactly who they are or what they're thinking or how that's gonna turn out. I went to trial on a case where the guy confessed to sexually assaulting his ex wife on video. And I played the video for the the jury and they were like, they were both drinking. So they found him not guilty.

[Narrator]

And Bob is worried about Vanderwaal's defense. An impressive private attorney called Troy Krenning. He's exactly the kind of guy you'd want defending you. Experienced, skilled, determined. Troy starts combing through the case files, looking for any weak spots.

[DA Bob Percifield]

Troy was playing the whole defense defense turned a game. I think at one point he was saying that Lydia had a bunch of stuff that hadn't been turned over or something like that. He filed a motion for DHS records regarding Lydia's children. A lot of motions, a lot of.

[Narrator]

Arguments, but that gets him nowhere. April turns to June. Troy Crenning tries a new angle. He accuses a Fort Collins detective of misconduct.

[DA Bob Percifield]

I was pretty upset about that. I don't even still as a defense attorney now. I don't attack an officer's integrity unless there's absolute evidence that they screwed up or were doing something wrong.

[Narrator]

Next, Troy raises concerns about Lydia being so vocal and public about the case.

[JC Marmaduke]

He was pretty openly disgusted by Lydia being so in contact with the press and branding herself a pedophile hunter and all that. And so he said, basically, Lydia just wants to be famous and we need to limit publicity of the trial.

[Lydia]

Of course, his attorney paints me as this vigilante gunslinger because I'm a certified firearms instructor. They could paint me however they wanted. I didn't care. Because using the victim's mother as your scapegoat, if that's all the defense you have, you don't really have a case.

[Narrator]

But the District attorneys have always had their concerns over Lydia's actions. They warned her not to post too much on social media in case it could jeopardize a trial. And now they're worried that's come home to roost. All of these motions that the defense are filing take time. It's slowing down the case.

[DA Bob Percifield]

Those are the boring parts of big cases that you don't see on tv, and those take up the bulk of the time, really, you know, sitting in my office researching specific issues. I did the boring part.

[Narrator]

It gets to August. Judge Blanco sets an arraignment hearing for September 27, 2018. An arraignment hearing is when there will be a formal reading of the criminal charges to Vanderwaal. It's time for an ultimatum. At this hearing, Vanderwaal will either need to plead guilty and accept a deal or plead not guilty. If he pleads not guilty, the case will go to trial. It's the day of the arraignment hearing. Lydia enters the Larimer County Justice Center. Walking through its bright, airy atrium, she notices an inscription in Latin which translates to justice is not to be deferred. It feels pretty ironic. It's now over six months since Vander Wall was arrested in Mexico and brought back to Colorado. In courtroom 3A, Vanderwaal stands in front of Judge Blanco. The charges are read out, and then the judge asks Andrew Todd Vanderwaal how he will plead. He answers, not guilty. Most cases in the US Are settled with a plea deal, but not this one. Vanderwaal is going to trial, so not.

[Kim Jordan]

Only would Lydia have to testify, but her son would have as well. And Andrew has to be in the courtroom when that happens.

[Narrator]

Kim really didn't want this outcome with a trial. Even if the prosecution proves Vanderwaal's guilty, it still might not be the end. Vandewaal will be able to file appeals.

[Kim Jordan]

That can last years and years and years. And that not only takes its toll on the system, but more importantly on victims who feel like they don't have that closure still. Because the appeals are still ongoing, the.

[Narrator]

Prosecution and the defense start preparing for trial.

[DA Bob Percifield]

Kim was invaluable to me as an advocate because, you know, I get focused on the. On the trial aspect and the conviction and, you know, getting. Getting through the trial and the whole process. And she still is thinking about how these people feel. What's. What are they thinking about this? What's this going to do to them? And she really taught me to really focus on that as a Sex assault attorney.

[Narrator]

The prosecution don't want to put Lydia and her son through a trial. What they really want is Vanderwaal to change his mind and decide to plead guilty. DA Bob Persepeld has a plan. Vanderwaal's laptop was seized in Mexico. Bob decides to present this laptop to the judge as evidence. This laptop contains some of the worst.

[DA Bob Percifield]

Things that I've ever seen in my entire life, and I've seen some pretty bad stuff.

[Narrator]

The laptop had been sent off to the CIA headquarters at Langley. The agent who did the analysis calls.

[DA Bob Percifield]

Up Bob, and he said, are you going to be the one that has to look at this? I said, yeah. And he's like, if you don't. If you don't have to look at this, he's like, don't. This is not something that anybody should have to see. It's that bad AC probably 10 times more than I have. And I told him. I was like, well, I got to look at some of it. I got to know what's on there. And he's like, well, here's how you want to kind of skim through it. And he's like, good luck, man. So he sent it to me, and I got it, and I popped it open and kind of skimmed it the way he told me to. And it was some of the most horrible, horrific things that you. Things you can't even imagine.

[Narrator]

The material on the laptop won't result in more charges, but Bob thinks it's still important to submit it as evidence to Judge Blanco.

[DA Bob Percifield]

I wanted her to see what kind of monster we're actually dealing with. I was like, man, this guy is more of a monster than I even imagined. I mean, we knew that he sexually assaulted children, and that was his proclivity and that kind of thing. But to see what I saw, I mean, he was just evil.

[Narrator]

The defense attorney asked the court for permission to review the evidence on Vanderwaal's laptop, which would give Vanderwaal access to the material.

[DA Bob Percifield]

I was like, no way. No way in hell should that guy get to see that stuff again, just to live it again, which is the only purpose for it. I mean, him seeing it isn't going to do them any good. And the judge in our case was like, yeah, no, that. He didn't. No, that doesn't need to happen. And so she restricted him from being able to see that.

[Narrator]

On December 11, 2018, Vanderwaal's defense attorney approached the prosecution. Vanderwaal has changed his mind. He is accepting the plea Deal. He will plead guilty to a count of sexual assault on a child younger than 15 by one in a position of trust, a Class 3 felony. There will be no trial. Lydia is incredibly grateful to Bob.

[Lydia]

He worked his ass off and he fought for us and he did everything he could to stand toe to toe with that other attorney. And he made sure the judge got to see everything, which was great because you can't unsee those things. And when you look at the evidence that would have been admitted in a trial and the judge gets to see all of that, that leaves an impression.

[Narrator]

A sentencing hearing is scheduled for next year on March 1, 2019. Vanderwaal faces a minimum of eight years in prison. Lydia manages to get through yet another holiday season in which Vanderwaal has still not faced justice. This is now her third. Her boyfriend Russ, tries to support the family.

[BBC Narrator]

My part in this is grab those kids and let's go to the mountains. Let's get away out of this city for the weekend or however many days. And you know, I have 40 head of horses and mules that for whatever reason, they're good therapy. Leave that other stuff at home. We all need a little bit of relief and something good in life. And I guess that's the only way I can contribute, really.

[Narrator]

Finally, March 1, 2019, arrives the day of the sentencing hearing. As Lydia gets dressed into a sharp black jumper and combs through her hair, she thinks back to the advice Bob has given her.

[DA Bob Percifield]

I'd be like, here's what it is, here's what's going on. Here's what could or couldn't happen at the hearing, that kind of thing.

[Narrator]

It's now over a year since Vanderwaal was arrested in Mexico and two and a half years since he confessed to abusing Lydia's son.

[Lydia]

The day that I went in for the sentencing, I thought, this is it. Finally we're going to have that closure.

[Narrator]

They go through the atrium and up the stairs to courtroom 3A. It's a medium sized room with industrial cream walls and plastic chairs. But they struggle to find somewhere to sit.

[DA Bob Percifield]

It was completely full. There was probably, I don't know, 80 people in there, maybe 100 people, I don't know how many. There were people everywhere.

[Narrator]

Lydia looks around the courtroom, overwhelmed by seeing all these faces. She recognizes dozens of people who have helped her along the way have showed up for her. There's friends and family. Lydia's ex husband, Jason, her niece, her son's scout leader, the co worker who helped her right at the start. The Families of other children who say they were abused by Vanderwaal are also here. And at the front is Detective Dayton, the officer who originally handled the case.

[DA Bob Percifield]

Lydia definitely walks the walk and I admire her for that.

[Narrator]

But there are a few faces in the courtroom that Lydia doesn't recognize. Vanderwaal has people there supporting him. His parents and people from his church.

[Lydia]

But guess what? I got a whole army right here with me. And people showed up. People from our community showed up. It was, it was pretty amazing. That courtroom on his sentencing day was packed.

[Narrator]

JC Marmaduke is watching from the press area.

[JC Marmaduke]

The sentencing was really emotional because it was the first time that I had seen all of the people who Vanderwaal hurts and all of the lives that he kind of destroyed. I mean, all of, all of that was in the same courtroom. And they all were getting finally a chance to say their piece.

[Narrator]

Judge Blanco enters the courtroom. She starts the proceedings. One of the first people to speak is an 8 year old boy. The courtroom goes quiet as he stands. He's wearing his scout uniform to give him confidence. His therapist by his side. He reads his statement. It's Lydia's son.

[Kim Jordan]

It's always a really powerful moment, especially when it's a kid. But when anyone is able to get up and give their statement in front of somebody who has hurt them in the most horrific and intimate ways.

[Narrator]

Lydia's son has decided he wants to make a statement to the judge.

[DA Bob Percifield]

The courage that it took for a, I'll call him a young man to stand up with Andrew 10ft away from him and give his statement. And I remember he said something like, I'm glad my mom didn't kill anyone. And I thought he thinking about others. He's not even thinking about himself in this situation. Impressed is not even a big enough word. I mean, just the majority of people that have had this happen to them in their lives never say anything to anybody. And here we have this young kid. It's beyond me how someone could be that strong.

[Narrator]

Lydia's son finishes his statement.

[Lydia]

I was so proud of him. He was the cutest thing and he was so brave.

[Narrator]

She walks him out of the courtroom. Lydia doesn't want him to hear the rest of the proceedings and the evidence they found on the laptop. In the corridor outside the courtroom, Lydia gives her son a hug.

[Lydia]

My son has always played with my hair from birth. He has this thing where he just holds my hair and it's a comfort to him.

[Narrator]

A photographer snaps a picture of Lydia and her son embracing.

[Lydia]

And it's the backside of me, and my son's little arms are around me and he's holding my hair. And you think about little animals that hold onto their mama's fur. You know, that was my son holding onto my hair. It just captured all of our relationship in that moment.

[Narrator]

Back inside the courtroom, Jacy can feel the tension growing.

[JC Marmaduke]

The room had this palpable sense of anger and this drive for justice. There was this feeling of finally the interwell is kind of pinned down. He tried so hard to run away, and now finally we have him and he's going to be held accountable.

[Narrator]

Detective Dayton has been in contact with two of Vanderwaal's victims from 15 years ago who are now adults. They are giving victim impact statements.

[DA Bob Percifield]

One of them actually asked me to read his statement to the court because it was too emotional for him to do so. And of course, I was honored to do that.

[Narrator]

Lydia's return to the courtroom to make her statement. As she stands, she looks across to her army of supporters. She sees the families of Vanderwaal's other alleged victims, those who don't feel they are able to speak out. And she thinks about all the people who have supported her on this journey, who are victims themselves. JC Janita. She remembers her own abuse and that she, like countless women and children who are victims of sexual abuse, didn't get justice.

[Kim Jordan]

She really, you know, emphasized that we know he's a serial predator. We know that he has set himself up to be in positions of trust with kids so he can have access to them to build trust with their parents, to do all of the grooming things that we know happen. And when they found him in Mexico, he was coaching a kid's soccer team. So he had already started the same pattern somewhere else.

[Narrator]

It's the defense's turn. They play the courtroom a video that they've produced in support of Vanderwaal's character.

[Kim Jordan]

And they interviewed, like, family and friends of his from back home and talked about what a great man he was and what a great helper he's been around the house and just really hard to watch video for us.

[Narrator]

Russ is sitting alongside Lydia and he is fuming.

[BBC Narrator]

I mean, how can anybody show support you, you know, this has happened, you know, what he did, what he is. How can you possibly, you know, even show up? And then you're looking at who's supporting him and what are they going to say? Going to lie out their butts?

[Narrator]

All the evidence has now been presented to Judge Blanco, and it is time for her to decide on the sentence.

[BBC Narrator]

You know, still iffy until. Until they say, okay, this is. This is it. There's still that little bit of something in the back of your mind going, is he going to wiggle out of this? He's wiggled through a whole bunch of different people going from house to house. Those type of people, they've made a life of manipulating other people. And can you manipulate a court system?

[Narrator]

There's silence in the courtroom as Judge Blanco makes her rule. Inside Courtroom 3A, with its industrial cream walls and uncomfortable plastic chairs, Judge Blanco prepares to hand down her sentence. Half the people in the crowded room turn to look at her. The other half strain their necks to see Vanderwaal. Kim glances over to Bob. Jacy's fingers hover over her key keyboard. Detective Dayton shuffles his boots. Lydia reaches out for Russ's hand. The moment has finally come. Judge Blanco clears her throat. Andrew Todd Vanderwaal is given the maximum sentence of 24 years to life. He won't be eligible for parole until the year 2039.

[Lydia]

We celebrated. We were so grateful. We all came out of the courtroom celebrating.

[Narrator]

After more than two and a half years of fighting, finally Lydia and her family have justice.

[Lydia]

And he has to look in the mirror every day and he has to face those other inmates or whoever he interacts with. And they know that he's a confessed. Peter. There's no doubt about it. There's no question there whatsoever. To me, that is a greater imprisonment than him being dead. That's easy. Then he's done. I want him to spend the rest of his life knowing that everybody knows who he is.

[Narrator]

Jaycee races out of the courtroom to file her piece. Andrew Vanderwaalt gets maximum sentence.

[JC Marmaduke]

It's definitely the story that has stayed with me more than any other story. To me it is very much a story about the power of persistence because I think that there is really something to be said for the way that she just never gave up. Like it's so. It's the easiest thing in the world to just give up on something and wait for something to happen. And she never did. And that drive to see this through is a really rare quality in a person. And I think if we all had a little bit more of it, that the world would be a better place. I do feel like every child who is abused, I think deserves someone like Lydia to fight for them.

[Narrator]

DA Bob Percifield leaves the courtroom. In the corridor outside, there's a window and he can see the snow topped Rocky Mountains in the distance.

[DA Bob Percifield]

You Know, nobody wins in these cases, you know.

[JC Marmaduke]

Yeah.

[DA Bob Percifield]

Andrew Vanderwaal's getting a life sentence here. He's gonna be eligible for parole someday, and he'll be able to get out potentially. Lydia and her family are serving a life sentence. They already had to live through all this, and it's never going to go away.

[Narrator]

But as Bob walks over to chat with Lydia and her family, there is some satisfaction at seeing the relief on their faces.

[DA Bob Percifield]

I felt good that I was able to help Lydia and her family get to that sort of closure point, you know, and that was always my goal as a D.A. i mean, that's sort of a district attorney's supposed to be. A district attorney's mantra is do the right thing.

[Narrator]

Kim joins the group of Lydia, her ex, her son Russ, and Bob. And as they talk, she senses a change in the group dynamic.

[Kim Jordan]

We were just sort of chatting and we were talking about different concerts we liked to go to and music we were listening. It was just sort of like a moment of normalcy in such a weird, messed up situation and just kind of that moment to just connect on a. On a human level that had nothing to do with Vanderwaal or the case or anything like that.

[Narrator]

Kim, Lydia, and Bob have remained friends to this day.

[DA Bob Percifield]

She's strong. Lydia is just one of those people. She's like, I am who I am. I carry a gun. I'm part of the nra. She has her heritage thing that she loves, and she just puts it out there, and this is who I am. You know, I really care about Lydia and her family.

[Narrator]

And there's another relationship that grows out of this case. Over the past few months, Kim and Bob have been working closely together.

[DA Bob Percifield]

We always got along. We always had a good time together. In that line of work, you have to be able to laugh at yourself and what you're dealing with. Otherwise, it just beat you down.

[Kim Jordan]

I think we just built a lot of trust doing these cases and learned how we would react in stressful situations.

[Narrator]

Soon after the Van De Wall hearing, Kim and Bob start dating.

[DA Bob Percifield]

I just thought she was hot, so. She's. I'm not even follow up with that. So I'm just gonna leave.

[Kim Jordan]

I'm not gonna touch that.

[DA Bob Percifield]

I'm gonna leave that there.

[Kim Jordan]

Do what you want.

[DA Bob Percifield]

No, I think she's right.

[BBC Narrator]

We.

[DA Bob Percifield]

We. We've seen a lot of probably the worst side of humanity that you can, and we both came through it laughing together.

[Lydia]

I've always prided myself that I'm a good matchmaker. I did not intentionally mean to create those matches, but yes.

[Narrator]

Bob and Kim are now married and have a son of their own. They like catching up with Lydia and her family whenever possible. Two years after the Van de Waal hearing, Lydia gets a message on Facebook. It's from a woman saying that Lydia's cousin, the one she says abused her as a teenager, is arrested and they're.

[Lydia]

Looking for other victims. And I got on the phone immediately and I thought, here's my chance, here's my redemption.

[Narrator]

Several women in Utah have come forward to say that they were sexually abused by Lydia's cousin. He'd moved on from being a karate instructor and was working as a massage therapist. Lydia contacts the detective. He asks her to write a victim impact statement for the court case.

[Lydia]

I wanted the court to understand this wasn't just a recent one time thing that he did. There was a history here, decades of him victimizing people, and I was one of them.

[Narrator]

In March 2021, Lydia's cousin, Fred Perales pleads guilty to five counts of rape and nine counts of sexual abuse. He's sentenced to 18 years to life.

[Lydia]

He will probably spend the rest of his life in jail.

[Narrator]

In the space of a couple of years, both Lydia and her son have gotten justice. But Lydia feels like there's still so much more work to do. Over the past few years, Lydia has come across so many other people who had either been abused as a child or have a child who'd been abused. And since her story hit the international press, many more people have contacted her.

[Lydia]

I was getting calls left and right. I wanted them to know that somebody understood how they felt and what they were going through. I know their pain. I know that process. And it is the loneliest, most isolating, hurtful pain that no parent, no child should have to endure. And I didn't want them to ever feel alone.

[Narrator]

So Lydia starts a foundation to support survivors of sexual abuse and their families.

[Lydia]

And unfortunately, guess what? There's no shortage of work in this. There's no shortage of work.

[Narrator]

And when people contact the foundation, it's Lydia they want to speak with.

[Lydia]

I had a mother call me, and all I heard was, I can't believe you answered. And she's crying. And I said, of course I'm going to answer. And she just cried and she cried and she cried and it was okay.

[Narrator]

She offers these families the thing that helped her family heal. Getting out in the wilderness, hiking and horseback riding.

[Lydia]

And it's empowering not only for the child, but the parents. Like, they get to see their child interact with These beautiful animals, they get to see their child fishing, they get to see their child hiking. They get to be up in the mountains on the continent divide. They get to experience the Colorado Rocky Mountains and experience the life that I believe truly helped us in our healing process.

[Narrator]

It's now almost a decade since that family morning when Lydia's ex husband stood on her doorstep and told her that their son had been abused. Lydia's son still loves playing hockey, and Russ takes him out on the ice to get some extra practice in.

[Lydia]

He grew up ice skating and he decided that he wanted to get out there with my son and really kind of practice. And he's obviously not as good of a skater as my son, but he tries.

[Narrator]

Things can still be hard for the family and made all the harder by them losing the children's father, Jason, to cancer a couple years back. But they're doing okay and her son is thriving.

[Lydia]

I think he's on the right path and I know with the help of his coach and with Russ and with our medicine man is really amazing with him too. So I look at all these other men in his life that I think are really, really good influences on him, and I made it my life's mission to raise him to adulthood to be a decent man. I knew that was going to be my responsibility. When all of this played out, I was like, okay, what am I going to do? How do I raise him to adulthood and help him so that he doesn't carry what I carried all those years I had, the trauma, and I can guarantee that it contributed to the failure of my marriages. I don't want that to happen to my son.

[Narrator]

I want.

[Lydia]

I want him to be the best husband someday. I want him to be the best father someday.

[Narrator]

And for the most part, Lydia thinks she's doing a good job.

[Lydia]

He just has this energy, I think, that creates a safe place for people. Now, right now, as a teenager, he can kind of be a jerk sometimes, and especially to me and his sisters. But overall, he's very sensitive, very warm.

[Narrator]

And nowadays Lydia just has the regular mom worries about him.

[Lydia]

I just want to get him through high school. Right now I'm just like, please just get through high school with decent grades. I always have to remind myself when I'm so stressed out and I'm thinking, like, why aren't his grades better? And why isn't. Why did he miss the bus today? I have to remind myself that it could be so, so much worse.

[Narrator]

And her son is turning into a charmer.

[Lydia]

He just did what they call a celly. So it's like a celebration where he gets on a knee, he makes a heart, and then he punched through the heart as a heartbreaker. So that's him.

[Kim Jordan]

It's. Yeah.

[Lydia]

They come up with the the funniest little celebration moves.

[Narrator]

A little heartbreaker. This whole story started with his dad behaving in the same way charming Lydia as they drove down the main street in Fort Collins.

[Lydia]

This dad dropping the lines or making the moves.

[Narrator]

And yeah, the session is coming to an end.

[Lydia]

Hi Bubba.

[Narrator]

Okay. And Lydia's son skates over to chat with her in the sand.

[Lydia]

You can go relax on the bench.

[Narrator]

He tells her that some other players have been complimenting his skating.

[Lydia]

Well that's good. Go help him. Teach him something.

[Narrator]

Lydia picks up her things and heads down to meet Russ and her son on the bench. They're ready to head home. The Hunter is a BBC Studios audio production. It's presented by me as Anaya Echohawk and written and produced by Emma Wetherill. The Executive producer is Joe Kent, sound design by Melvin Rickaby, legal review by Oriana Williams and editorial review by Michael Fada. Production management by Juliette Harvey and Elena Boateng. The Production executive is Laura Jordan Rowell. The series was developed by Anya Saunders and Georgia Mosley for BBC Studios. Our Creative director is James Cook. BBC Studios Director of Audio is Richard Knight. We're planning on a future episode which can answer some of your questions about the series. Please email the team thehunterbc.com if you've been affected by any of the issues raised in this podcast. Details of organizations that can help are available in the the Episode Description the Hunter is funded and made by BBC Studios, a commercial company that is wholly owned by the BBC.

[BBC Narrator]

At the BBC we go further so you see clearer. With a subscription to BBC.com you get unlimited articles and videos ad free podcasts, the BBC News channel streaming live 24. 7 plus hundreds of acclaimed documentaries from less than a dollar a week for your first year. Read, watch and listen to trusted independent journalism and storytelling. It all starts with a subscription to BBC.com find out [e-mail] unlimited.