An Unfiltered Conversation with Andrew Callaghan: Money, Greed, & Getting Cancelled | Channel 5 News

Summary

Podcast Summary: An Unfiltered Conversation with Andrew Callaghan: Money, Greed, & Getting Cancelled | Channel 5 News

Introduction to Andrew Callaghan

In this episode of The Iced Coffee Hour, hosts Graham Stephan and Jack Selby engage in an in-depth conversation with Andrew Callaghan, a renowned journalist and documentary filmmaker. Callaghan shares insights into his unique career path, his experiences with media bias, and the personal challenges he's faced, including disputes that led to his temporary cancellation.

Career Journey: From 'All Gas, No Breaks' to Independent Filmmaking

Andrew Callaghan recounts his early days working with the show All Gas, No Breaks, under the parent company Doing Things Media. He explains how he transitioned from being a doorman in New Orleans to hosting his own independent projects. Callaghan highlights the turning point when he realized that despite the show's growing success, he was not receiving a fair share of the profits. This realization led to his departure and the establishment of his own independent platform.

“I asked for 50% and I basically said, if you don't give me 50%, which seems fair to me, I'm gonna quit.” [19:20]

Documentary Highlights: 'Dear Kelly' and the Las Vegas Tunnels

One of the pivotal projects discussed is Callaghan's documentary Dear Kelly, which delves into the life of Kelly, a man whose descent into conspiracy theories and extremist views is meticulously documented. Callaghan discusses the challenges of portraying such a complex character and the impact of the documentary on both Kelly and his own life.

“We tried mediation. We tried so many different things. I really don't know.” [26:24]

Additionally, Callaghan touches upon his work exploring the Las Vegas tunnels, highlighting the plight of homeless individuals and the systemic issues that contribute to homelessness.

“Everything bad that I've seen happen is because someone is trying to either get money out of somebody or get someone else elected.” [01:30]

Interviewing Style and Ethical Considerations

Callaghan emphasizes his authentic and empathetic interviewing style, aiming to bring out genuine stories without imposing his own biases. He discusses the ethical dilemmas faced when interviewing controversial figures and the importance of not endorsing harmful viewpoints.

“I just think I am empathetic, you know, and I think people can pick up on it.” [29:55]

Media Bias and the Changing Landscape of Journalism

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around media bias and the responsibility of both journalists and consumers in navigating the information landscape. Callaghan argues that no media outlet is entirely unbiased and stresses the importance of understanding the spectrum of media perspectives.

“Once you stop believing that journalists are unbiased, understand the spectrum of media bias, and be a responsible consumer, it'll work itself out.” [01:05]

Personal Struggles: Cancellation, Lawsuits, and Recovery

Callaghan opens up about the personal toll of facing cancellation and defamation lawsuits. He describes the psychological impact of being falsely accused and the subsequent efforts to rebuild his reputation and professional standing.

“I was like, oh, I'm a piece of shit. I was just like a worthless person, you know?” [88:35]

Homelessness: Policies and Societal Impact

The discussion shifts to homelessness, with Callaghan providing a nuanced view of the issue. He critiques the criminalization of homelessness in various states and the ineffective policies that exacerbate the problem by forcing homeless individuals to migrate to more accommodating areas like California.

“The problem is, right now you have... creating mass migrations to California.” [81:08]

Financial Perspectives: Buying vs. Renting

In a segment about personal finance, Callaghan and the hosts debate the merits of buying versus renting a home. Callaghan expresses skepticism about the financial wisdom of purchasing property given the high costs of maintenance, taxes, and the potential for real estate market volatility.

“Because you're already being faced with hostility for being like an outsider.” [62:18]

Relationships and Personal Growth

Callaghan discusses the importance of supportive relationships in overcoming personal and professional challenges. He credits his current girlfriend and family for their unwavering support during his lowest points, emphasizing the role of empathy and understanding in fostering meaningful connections.

“She's awesome, dude. We're coming up on our two-year anniversary.” [73:34]

Reflections on Human Nature and Money

Towards the end of the conversation, Callaghan reflects on human nature, asserting that while most people are inherently good, the corrupting influence of money often leads to unethical behavior. He underscores the pervasive impact of financial inequality on societal issues.

“Everything bad that I've seen happen is because someone is trying to either get money out of somebody or get someone else elected.” [102:20]

Conclusion

Andrew Callaghan's candid discussion on The Iced Coffee Hour offers listeners a deep dive into the complexities of modern journalism, the ethical responsibilities of media creators, and the personal resilience required to navigate public disputes and personal setbacks. His experiences serve as a compelling case study on the interplay between media influence, personal integrity, and societal issues.

---

Note: Timestamps are included with speaker attribution for key quotes to provide context and authenticity to the summary.

Transcript

[Andrew Callahan]

I can say to my new Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra, hey, find a keto.

[Graham Stephan]

Friendly restaurant nearby and text it to Beth and Steve.

[Andrew Callahan]

And it does without me lifting a finger so I can get in more squats anywhere I can.

[Jack]

1, 2, 3. Will that be cash or credit?

[Andrew Callahan]

Credit. 4 Galaxy S25 Ultra. The AI companion that does the heavy lifting. So you can do you get [e-mail] compatible with select apps. Requires Google Gemini account. Results may vary based on input. Check responses for accuracy.

[Jack]

How do you describe to people what you do?

[Andrew Callahan]

I'm a journalist and documentary filmmaker. I guess it's pretty, you know, straightforward in my eyes. I'mma keep it 55th Street. The microphone is kind of like a magnet for people who just want to say something. Already everything's popping out here. Yes, the Rona is with us.

[Jack]

So what type of people do you not get along with?

[Andrew Callahan]

I get along with everybody. Hit the far right with the feminist left. You don't feel like flipping to me, I invented cancer.

[Jack]

And how do you bring balance to that?

[Andrew Callahan]

It's impossible. The responsibility here kind of lies on the consumer too.

[Graham Stephan]

There's nothing fake about cnn.

[Andrew Callahan]

Once you stop believing that journalists are unbiased, understand the spectrum of media bias, and be a responsible consumer, it'll work itself out.

[Jack]

Sometimes the truth hurts. So what has it taught you about human nature? Just from your experience meeting so many.

[Andrew Callahan]

People that most people are good, but money corrupts always. Everything bad that I've seen happen is because someone is trying to either get money out of somebody or get someone else elected.

[Jack]

How much was the settlement? Andrew Callahan, thank you so much for coming on the Iced Coffee Hour. I'm a huge fan. I really enjoy your videos. My favorite was the 55th street one. Chet Hanks was incredible.

[Andrew Callahan]

Shout out to Chet Hanks. Free Crit Mac Iced Coffee Hour. We're here.

[Jack]

Thank you so much, man. So how do you describe to people what you do?

[Andrew Callahan]

I guess I'm a journalist and documentary filmmaker. I guess it's pretty, you know, straightforward in my eyes.

[Jack]

What would you say is the most memorable interview that you've done ever in my whole life.

[Andrew Callahan]

Damn, it's. It's hard to choose, but probably the. The Vegas Tunnels series or the Vegas Tunnels video. The hour and a half long one was probably the most impactful and recent memory.

[Jack]

What made it so impactful?

[Andrew Callahan]

Just the amount of time that I spent down there getting to know those people, trying to help them find IDs, what I learned about their recovery industry and, you know, all that in general. Throughout the process.

[Jack]

Yeah. It seems like that's almost like a. I don't want to say a trendy thing.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

But I see. I see quite a few people now going down to the Vegas tunnels, and it seems to be, like, people will use that as a way to, like, boost content or boost viewership.

[Andrew Callahan]

There's definitely a dark side of YouTube that's all about, like, homeless journalism. Sometimes at its worst, it's clickbait. Like, holy, look at these people. They live in squalor. That's so horrible. Why'd the Democrats do this? Then? The other, other, other end is like, I'm gonna humanize this poor, amazing person. You know what I'm saying? So there's a broad spectrum of empathy versus ridicule, all under the clickbait umbrella. I tried to like myself into that situation and actually help them get IDs and figure out, like, what tangible steps I could take to make a real impact. Ultimately, I'm not sure if it actually did help. I'm not going to, you know, stand like, I'm the most righteous YouTube documentary filmmaker in history. I don't know if Glenn, who I filmed, is still in the tunnels or not, but I'm hoping he, you know, linked back up with his sister and got out of there. Yeah.

[Jack]

Could you. For people who haven't seen that, could you explain who that is?

[Andrew Callahan]

Glenn lives in the tunnels.

[Jack]

How did he get in the tunnels?

[Andrew Callahan]

Oh, actually, we don't know. I don't know. He was a bouncer on Fremont street, you know. You know where that. The corner where you have hogs and heifers and you have the golden nugget?

[Jack]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

Surrounded by that giant screen on top where there's people in the circles doing busking. He used to be a doorman right there, and then he started smoking and then ended up underground.

[Graham Stephan]

So why do people live in the tunnels? Like, what is the allure of these tunnels?

[Andrew Callahan]

Well, for one, it's about 10 degrees cooler than the surface of Las Vegas. It's obviously a hot Mojave desert city. And secondly, Las Vegas Metro just relentlessly, relentlessly harasses homeless people with vagrancy citations. So it's a place to avoid being given a ticket, taken to jail, that kind of thing.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

And would you say it's an overall, like, better or worse place to live on average, for a homeless person in the tunnels or like, maybe on the streets of L. A?

[Andrew Callahan]

Oh, definitely better. Because there's a community. Different tunnels have, like, tunnel leaders. Like, it's fallout New Vegas and they basically control what goes in and out.

[Jack]

So for the tunnels, can anybody go and join? Like, if they're.

[Andrew Callahan]

Well, I mean, but like, if. I don't think anyone's like, yo, what's. Yes. I mean, if you're.

[Jack]

If you're homeless.

[Andrew Callahan]

If you're homeless, there's also different tunnels with different levels of, like, regulation. For example, if you go to some of the tunnels that are further up north town, you know, past old, old Vegas, you know, like by the missions, those tunnels are pretty unregulated, right? You can do. You can do. But the tunnels where everyone films the YouTube videos are south Strip, in between the Rio and Caesar's palace under there. They don't even, like, do. It's just like, that kind of stuff.

[Jack]

And the big thing with that, my understanding is from seeing some of these videos is that it's hard to get an ID without an address. And if they're homeless, yeah, they need an id, but they need an address to get the id?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yes.

[Jack]

So they're stuck.

[Andrew Callahan]

It's a vicious cycle for sure. Do you.

[Jack]

What do you think the solution is to that?

[Andrew Callahan]

Well, I mean, if you're homeless, you can get someone to let you put their address on their. On the id, which worked for Glenn. So Glenn's address is actually my cameraman Larry Susan's house in Vegas. So he's constantly getting citations under Glenn's name. That's one solution. A lot of the times, different nonprofits and foundations will let you use their company address as your home address. Like, HELP of Southern Nevada lets people in the tunnels put that as their. As their home address. So sometimes it's offered.

[Jack]

Why wouldn't they just lie and just put an address on there and then check the mail?

[Graham Stephan]

Check the mail.

[Andrew Callahan]

I think that you have to show an address and, like, two pieces of mail. You guys know how hard it is to get your ID at the dmv? Like, I have gone, and I. I've gone five times in a row.

[Jack]

It's like you got to show, like, a utility or like a bank statement or like, something with it on there.

[Andrew Callahan]

It's like stealing the Declaration of Independence. That's how it feels. You know what I mean? It's so complex.

[Graham Stephan]

And what percentage of the people living in these tunnels would you say are happy that they're living in the tunnels versus, like, no, I want to get out of here. I'm motivated to make a change for my life.

[Andrew Callahan]

I could exist here for 100 of them. Are base level unhappy, at least, like, unfulfilled but the. The amount of people that are willing to put in the effort and, like, you know, step up from that state of humiliation is a pretty. A pretty low metric. Like, you got to think, like, with our generation, there's kind of a romanticization to a certain extent of homelessness, like van life, you know, living outside to a certain extent with that generation. People in their mid-50s and stuff who grew up during Reagan with like, the tox toxic positivity and like, pick up by your bootstraps mentality. For them, being homeless is the ultimate humiliation. Like, they are failures. The average age of a homeless man In America is 54 years old. You know what I mean? So that's the age where you're expected to have two or three kids have a Leave it to Beaver style picket fence existence. So they're coming from a whole different level of shame that our generation isn't really adjusted to.

[Jack]

Where did your interest in journalism start?

[Andrew Callahan]

Well, I've always, like, liked talking to people. I grew up in downtown Seattle, well, in between Seattle and Philadelphia, but always in the inner city. So I just grew up talking to people all the time. But I had a high school teach teacher named Calvin Shaw, who was my journalism teacher. And he kind of like, would let me leave school for hours at a time to go report on stuff in Seattle, like the Occupy movement, hang out with Juggalos, investigate the Silk Road. You know, the guy who just got freed the Dark Web's drug service. And he was just like a really positive role model. And so he encouraged me to go to college for journalism, went to school in New Orleans, kind of just took off from there.

[Graham Stephan]

When did you realize you could turn it into a business?

[Andrew Callahan]

Probably like during All Gas, no Breaks, which was owned by a parent company called Doing Things Media. And we started just making a Patreon to. To extended cuts of certain scenes. The actual situation where I realized how lucrative journalism could be was again, in Las Vegas, not at the Tunnels, but at the AVN Expo, which is like a pornography event. For whatever reason, we thought it'd be a funny idea to interview people in the midst of an adult video shoot. So, like, interview people during it and like, hey, what's up? What's your favorite Disney movie? Like, stupid, Stupid. Like juvenile. I was 21 years old. Right.

[Graham Stephan]

So they were in the middle of Engage.

[Andrew Callahan]

Like the act engaging in intercourse. Yes.

[Graham Stephan]

How did. How did you get in that room?

[Andrew Callahan]

The male porn stars named Sean Lawless from Fort Lauderdale. He was a fan of All Gas, no Breaks, and his friend Kendra Cox, they were planning on doing a scene. He was like, dude, I love your videos. I loved Area 51 and Burning Man. Like, you want to film with us? And I pitched him the concept and he was like, sure, that's never been done before. As soon as we even indicated that we were doing that, like, obviously, everyone was like, where can I find it? Where can I find it? And then Reid, who's the CEO of Doing Things, was like, we should make a Patreon and pay wallet so people can pay five bucks a month if they want to see this uncut scene. Dude, like, 20,000 people signed up overnight. People are weird. I don't know why. You know how the Internet is. Yeah. And so that was the first scene where I was like, jesus, you know, people are willing to pay extra for things you can't see on the Surface Net. Obviously, we didn't recreate that particular scene again, but it worked in the future with, like, other interviews, especially during 2020, during the censorship, when obviously YouTube would take certain stuff down, like QAnon rallies, flat earth Conference. That couldn't fit on the Surface Net. Wow. Or obviously not the ServiceNet, but the. The public big four.

[Graham Stephan]

So if you were to explain this All Gas, no Breaks thing, maybe how you got into it, what that was like for you, in, like, just like, a minute or two, how would you. How would you do it?

[Andrew Callahan]

Well, All Gas, no Breaks was the name of a zine that I wrote when I was a teenager about hitchhiking across the US it was like a book, maybe like 60 pages, short stories about my experiences. I didn't go on that trip to write a book, but I wrote it about two years later because I wanted to, like, you know, have something to show for my four years in college. Yeah. So I made that. And then simultaneously, I started a show in New Orleans called Quarter Confessions, which was, like, drunk Bourbon street tourist interviews. It was like Taxi Cab Confessions inspired Party Street Show. So that caught the eye of a company called Doing Things Media who wanted to basically invest in a TV show or a digital web series. And so I pitched All Gas, no Breaks and the book and Quarter Confessions kind of combining to where it was like a hitchhiking traveling interview show out of New Orleans, but across the country. The hitchhiking concept didn't really, like, work that well. Like, it initially was supposed to be like, every interview subject is somebody that picks me up on the side of the road. But, like, it just didn't really work. Like, it was just the technical needs were just awkward, you know, it's kind of hard to film somebody in the car. So we ended up just making it like a roving series. Going from festival to convention to political rally and so on. That was all gas.

[Jack]

Was it safe hitchhiking?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, it's pretty safe.

[Jack]

I mean, what was your first experience? Like, where do you decide that, like, today is going to be the day I'm just going to be picked up by a random person?

[Andrew Callahan]

Well, I got really into, like, hobo culture, you know, like stick and bindle railroad culture, and also like the traveling hippie culture of the 60s. I was like reading a bunch of those books, like Jack Kerouac style stuff I never read on the Road. But, like, similar stuff. Like this guy, Ed Byrne had a book called Vagabonding in America that was about how to make money as a traveling hitchhiker across the US by doing, like, day jobs. So obviously you can't really work day jobs anymore. Like, that's old. Yeah, it's all dead and gone. Like, under the table work and mopping floors is out. But hitchhiking, you know, I figured that it was still doable to some capacity and in some capacity. And this dude, David Cho, who's an artist, he had a show on Vice called Thumbs Up America. And I was like, oh, if this guy can do it. And he went from Alaska to Tijuana in, like, two weeks. I was like, if he can do it, I can definitely do it. So I started off just going from New Orleans to Seattle, where I grew up, and just going from there and back up and down the west coast all the time.

[Graham Stephan]

How long does it take to get picked up? Because I've tried hitchhiking one time and I was out there for probably like six to eight hours. It was me. And maybe this is different if I'm with someone, but I was with my friend and it just didn't work. Finally, someone did pick us up. And then he, like, dropped us off at a gas station, said he would be right back, and then left.

[Andrew Callahan]

Damn. That's. That happened to me one time.

[Graham Stephan]

We paid him, too.

[Andrew Callahan]

You paid him? How much?

[Graham Stephan]

20 bucks.

[Andrew Callahan]

He said.

[Graham Stephan]

Well, he said he would drive us. It wasn't far. He said he would drive us. It was about an hour. And then he drove us like 15 minutes. Went to a gas station. Like, I have to run a really quick errand. I'll be right back.

[Andrew Callahan]

Where in the country was this?

[Graham Stephan]

This was in Mesquite.

[Andrew Callahan]

Mesquite, Nevada.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

Okay. Where the lived Stephen Paddock.

[Graham Stephan]

Maybe there's if he.

[Andrew Callahan]

If he existed.

[Graham Stephan]

This, yeah, this.

[Andrew Callahan]

Anyways. Yeah, it really depends what state you're in. Like, certain states have a hitchhiker traveler culture. Like on the west coast, if you're trying to 101 from like Washington, down the Oregon coast, bro, you're good. You can get picked up the whole way. Colorado, you're good. New Mexico maybe. But then you go to certain states like Arizona and Nevada, Second amendment, like my property pe ass states, you know what I mean? Like, you're not going to have much luck. The southern US is the hardest place to hitchhike though, you know, Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, I don't know, I just, I.

[Jack]

Have no clue what type of person picks somebody up because I feel like there's an element of risk that the person you're picking up once they're in the car with you, kind of difficult to get them out. And then there's that awkwardness.

[Andrew Callahan]

It's either migrant workers who think you're trying to travel for work, like Christian fundamentalists who are like trying to do the right thing and like spread the word of God. Or maybe they have a kid who's addicted to drugs and they think you're addicted to drugs. And the third most common person is just people who never shut the up, you know what I mean? They just need to hear, to listen. Yeah, yeah. They see you and they're like, oh my God, I'm going to tell them about everything, you know what I mean? And that most of most hitchhiking is just someone talking about themselves.

[Jack]

What's the craziest thing you've heard?

[Andrew Callahan]

Well, you know how they have in Utah, they have Mormons who have like eight or nine wives. I got picked up by a pharmacist in Utah who unfortunately, or I guess fortunately for me, broke HIPAA law and told me about all the different prescriptions that this dude's wives were having picking up every day. And she said, yeah, so she took care of all of the prescriptions for all of his nine wives. And she just said that like they're all taking like Prozac, Xanax, Klonopin, oxycontin, like every day. And they're just like living in this drug fueled, depressive, polygamous.

[Jack]

Whoa.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Do you think that's just because they're really unhappy or because you're like, this is more of a recreational sort of.

[Andrew Callahan]

Like, I'm living my life, it's gotta be option one. I think monogamy is the way to go. I think polygamy is fundamentally like against human nature.

[Jack]

Interesting. Yeah, I don't think I could ever hitchhike. I think I would just be terrified. And I don't like small talk.

[Andrew Callahan]

Okay, that's going to be the biggest thing. I mean, that's the biggest danger.

[Jack]

But now, really quick, before we go into that, are you looking to cut some costs and improve your business's bottom line? Well, if so, the best business operators have turned to our sponsor, Ramp, to help them cut down on wasteful spending and improve their finance operations.

[Graham Stephan]

RAMP is the corporate card and spend management software designed to help you save time and put money back in your pocket. With ramp, spend policies are built into the card to control spending before it even happens. It automatically collects and categorizes receipts so you'll never have place them down again. Plus, RAMP enforces compliance by flagging violations and locking cards for non compliance. So basically, if Graham wanted to use the iced coffee hour card to go buy himself some coral for his reef aquarium, he'll be flagged and his account will be locked.

[Jack]

RAMP also helps streamline your entire financial workflow from expense reporting, vendor payments, and reimbursements all in one place. And businesses save an average of 5% in their first year using RAMP. Not to mention you could get $250 when you join. All you got to do is go to ramp.comich with the link down below in the description. Ramp.comich R A M P.comich with the link down below in the description. Cards issued by Sutton bank member fdic. Terms and conditions apply. Thank you so much, RAM for sponsoring this podcast. And now let's get back to the episode.

[Graham Stephan]

So in terms of the content production, you have a very unique style. Do you on purpose make it seem like lower production quality? How, like, what extent do you go to?

[Andrew Callahan]

Because, well, if you look at the.

[Graham Stephan]

If you look at the older videos, like you said, you use imovie and you use like the most generic imovie transitions. Like really kind of like explosion effect this and that. Like what extent do you go to? Or is it. Has it changed over time?

[Andrew Callahan]

I mean, I like to think the production value has gotten like a little bit higher. Back in the day, the only thing that we did that was deliberate is we tried to get the oldest digital camera we could find. Me and my old camera guy called it Big Cami. It was this giant ass vintage camera that we got off this old Cuban man in Miami for like 50 bucks or something like that. And a lot of the old videos, like area 51, raid, flat earth, conference, Midwest Fur fest. Those are all shot on that like massive cheap camera.

[Graham Stephan]

Did you ever run into production issues because you're using some like old outdated pieces?

[Andrew Callahan]

Hell yeah. That's why we stopped doing it.

[Graham Stephan]

Like, like just even transferring footage, I imagine.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. Because the worst part about being a journalist is file management. Like everything's fun in the field, but it's just you and a computer and a bunch of multi ports and hard drives and Premiere keeps crashing and you're losing power and the wi fi sucks. Like that. That sucks. So when you have a, a hilarious looking camera but every, you know, 10 minutes of footage is like a half a terabyte because it's taking up so much space. Like those kind of problems you have to figure out how to work around. Yeah.

[Jack]

I always thought that it was very intentional to use like low quality style just so it feels more realistic.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, probably that. I mean it's also just like, you know, most of the trendy 4K cameras to me just like are just lame. Like the Blackmagic cinema camera, like that's just, just too high quality. There's a certain extent where, you know, if things look too cinematic, it doesn't feel very journalistic.

[Graham Stephan]

It just seems a little like countercultural. Which is always kind of a little in vogue.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, like, you know. Well, I'll tell you the, the big like the scheme, the ultimate hack here is to make sure the audio quality is perfect and keep the video as vintage as possible. I agree. Because there's nothing cool about bad audio. And so it's like. But you can not trick the viewer, but you can give the viewer that like cool vintage experience by giving them a clean audio track and more experimental lo fi cameras. But if you give them like on the reverse end, high quality video with low quality audio, you're out of there. That's like the most amateur ever.

[Jack]

So for all gas, no breaks. How do approach you and what was that? Email.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And what was the pitch?

[Andrew Callahan]

Hey, you know, we liked Quarter Confessions. What do you think about, you know, making a show for our network? Or you know, you can produce it, you can direct it, you can edit it and then we'll distribute it for you.

[Graham Stephan]

And then they got all monetization rights for that.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. So how it started off is like they. I negotiated a salary, I think it was 45k a year, which coming out of college is pretty sick. And an RV which cost like 20k. So I had my dad pick up the RV after I convinced them to let me buy it, they gave me this salary. I Just hired my friend friends, and that was that.

[Jack]

And how much were you making before then?

[Andrew Callahan]

Nothing. Oh, I was actually working as a doorman at a seafood restaurant in New Orleans called Bourbon House. So I was making, you know, 500 bucks a week, which is pretty solid.

[Jack]

That's really good.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And then how long were you with all gas, no breaks, before a fallout?

[Andrew Callahan]

Year and a half. Year and a half. But I'm actually on good terms with all those guys now.

[Jack]

So what ended up happening, my understanding was that, you know, from hearing you, is that there was a disagreement and they just fired you.

[Andrew Callahan]

I mean, this is a classic story. I think that I learned a lot from this situation. I think they did too, as a company, because from what I've heard with their new shows, like, they have a new show called no Cap on God, and they pay that dude super fairly and he seems to be having a great time. So I, I, I guarantee you that, like, they learned a lot and so did I. But what ended up happening is that the show became wildly successful, more successful than we possibly could have anticipated. We're talking about, like, bringing in merch drops, bringing in million dollars per merch drop type, you know what I mean? And I'm still receiving something like 20% of profit split and a 45k salary. So it's kind of disheartening when you see a million coming in a month and you making, you know, less than, you know, 250, 000. Yeah, I mean, ideally I would have negotiated with them, you know, but I asked for 50% and I, I basically said, if you don't give me 50%, which seems fair to me, I'm gonna, I'm gonna quit.

[Graham Stephan]

And they thought you were replaceable?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, that was their, their miscalculation. And mine was creating such like, a hard ultimatum that made it almost impossible for us to negotiate.

[Jack]

What would you have done differently in hindsight?

[Andrew Callahan]

I mean, I mean, nothing. That's just generally my cardinal rule for I was 22 years old. I probably would have tried a more peaceful negotiation process. But at the same time, their mistake, I think, was bigger than mine in thinking that I was totally replaceable. They literally thought. I remember they told one of the prospective hosts, like, hey, we have a bunch of connections in the comedy world. Andrew is just a glorified mic stand. We can find somebody else. Little did they know, when that situation was made public, the fans turned on the whole company. But that's what happens when you have these corporate focus groups who are kind of like, think that they're running when really the artists actually run.

[Jack]

Yeah, you really can't replace a personality. I've noticed. It's one of those things where people subscribe and watch for that person. It's less about the content. Like if. If someone replaced you on your channel, but everything else is the same. Most people just wouldn't watch. I feel like I watch just as much for you as I do the content itself.

[Andrew Callahan]

But on the other hand, too, you can have me. And then if I introduce a host as an extension of our apparatus and people know that I'm still involved, everybody's on board. Like right now we're having you hosts from across the world, from Mexico, New Zealand, Australia, Israel, everywhere. And they're doing interviews and. But it's under sort of our blessing. So nobody's upset. It's more like when you replace somebody, they feel like they're being personally, you.

[Jack]

Know, what do you look for in a person? Because I saw your Tijuana video and I thought he was a fantastic interviewer.

[Andrew Callahan]

Awesome.

[Jack]

Almost similar to you in a way. Like. Like there's. There's something just different about him. They just seem like, oh, it's like the same brand.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

How do you find people and what do you look for?

[Andrew Callahan]

Shout out to Beanie. I mean, I just found him because he was my friend trend. But I look for just people who are genuinely curious, open minded, charismatic without being overbearing. Just people who are good listeners and know how to ask intelligent questions. And also understand that, like when you're in the field, even if you know something, you have to understand the viewer doesn't. So you can ask basic. You should ask basic questions. Like when I went to a communist march three days ago or four days ago. I know what communism is. I'm not going to go in there swinging like, I'm the smartest guy. And like, what do you think about post capitalist Leninist theory? No, you don't want to do that. You have to assume the viewer doesn't know and you have to ask them. For those who don't know, what is communism? So it's a person that's both charismatic and can be an avatar for the. For the everyman at the same time.

[Jack]

Yeah. How much do you have to put your ego aside to interview someone and let them take the spotlight?

[Andrew Callahan]

Oh, for me, it's just second nature. I like people when people talk. I like doing podcasts with you guys, but I prefer listening. Really? Yeah. Generally. Yeah. You learn more. I mean.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

So did you have some sort of like interviewing crash course that you gave to Beanie that you. No taught him how to do it or like any of these people. Like, there are certain guy like tips and guides that you provide to these people.

[Andrew Callahan]

I think the cool thing now is that like they've watched enough Channel 5 and all gas breaks to where they're like, oh, this is kind of the vibe I should go for. Yeah.

[Jack]

So when you do some of these interviews, I noticed a lot of people will confess things or just be very open. What for you has really stood out from somebody that you were surprised they were talking about this?

[Andrew Callahan]

I mean, probably. If you want to talk about the movie, I'm not sure if we're there yet. We're backing up a little bit. Definitely. If you look at Dear Kelly, I was surprised that he divulged his entire life story about his home and family collapsing after a foreclose closure. You know, it's little stuff like that that you're like, wow, I can't believe this guy just got that personal in 30 seconds. But I think that the microphone is kind of like a magnet for people who just want to say something already. Like people say, how do you get people to say all this stuff? I'm like, dude, they just see the microphone and a lot of, a lot of people are waiting to say what they have to say. They just need a place to do it.

[Jack]

So one thing I saw recently, your screener of Dear Kelly.

[Andrew Callahan]

That's right. New movie on the way. Second feature film now available www.dearkellyfilm.com it's actually linked down.

[Jack]

It was actually incredible. It was one of the few. It was, it was one of the few videos that's over an hour long that captivated me the entire way through.

[Andrew Callahan]

Thank you.

[Jack]

Could you explain what this is and the importance of who Kelly is? Because I remember seeing Kelly years ago on your channel.

[Andrew Callahan]

Oh, yeah. So Kelly's first introduction to Channel 5 Lore was at the White Lives Matter rally in 2021 where he boldly approached an army of hostiles with four flags in hand and proclaimed Kobe Bryant was assassinated by the Clintons and was shortly after attacked by a mob of antifa super soldiers. That that interaction began a four year filming journey with over 300 hours of footage that I had to whittle down to 90 minutes, wherein we've kind of dissect Kelly's beliefs, figure out what caused him to jump down the rabbit hole from a caring, loving father of three to a Kobe Bryant conspiracy theorist, and we kind of document that process Try different solutions to try and help him get over and get out of that, you know, toxic feedback loop. And then eventually we sit down with his family and work out a solution to help him at least put family before politics. It's not a movie trying to convert someone to like a liberal or something. It's more about a separating and prioritizing family.

[Jack]

He's definitely extreme, but hearing his story all the way through, I have to think to myself, this, this can't be a surprise. I've seen, not to that degree, but people similar to him that just talk nonstop and they embellish 90% of everything they say. To me it just seems like this is a personality trait that was not just a flip of a switch archetype.

[Graham Stephan]

That a lot of people share.

[Jack]

This is prob. Probably who he has been since he was a kid and it just kind of snowballed from there.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

What do you think about that?

[Andrew Callahan]

I mean, it's interesting because part of the reason that many people have resonated with the film, they've said is because they have a dad or an uncle or someone in their family that's similar to Kelly. And while his beliefs are relatively extreme and he's like definitely out there in terms of like his physical antics, there's still a lot of people who are on the same page as him. And so it's sort of a movie about that type of psychology, but on the, on the element of like, has he been like that since the kid? Kid? I think that Kelly's always had a heroic self narrative and that's one of the subtexts of this movie in general is self narrative versus reality. Being able to own up to mistakes and acknowledge where you did in fact get over at the same time and developing a non binary worldview, you know what I'm saying? I mean like not like becoming non binary, but to where it's like it's not black and white. It's not a spiritual war between good and evil. Evil. But for Kelly it is. And when the thing happened with the home foreclosure, he was given a boogeyman and given a battle which ended up merging with a greater spiritual battle in the country for the, for the White House.

[Graham Stephan]

So people that appear to be that like quote unquote so far gone. Do you think there ever is changing course? And what would it take for someone like that? Because I've had experiences in my own life as well where you have someone and you just continue to say the same thing over to save money. Don't do this, learn a budget and then they can be 20 and then by the time they're 40, like nothing's changed. And then they're, you know, they need someone over here to be able to provide finance to funding for their own life. And then they grow into their 70s, 80s, and this can happen over and over again. And it seems like you can kind of tell when they're too far gone. But is there anything that actually can be done? Like what should.

[Andrew Callahan]

I've obviously thought about it a lot in the movie. We tried mediation. We tried so many different things. I really don't know. Like I'm, I'm only 27, you know, I'm still kind of learning how people are and you know, I've, I haven't had a lot of friends, you know, grow past 30 yet. Most of my friends are young. So I'm curious to see how certain habits and behavior patterns will carry themselves out throughout someone's life when they get to be in their 50s and their parents and like, like my friends who drink a lot, I don't know if they're still going to be drinking, you know, seven drinks a day when they're. Grandfather.

[Jack]

I got to say, you slow down. I've seen a lot of people who are like big pot users.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Who drink all the time, just get smashed. I would say almost all of it stopped.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Around 30, give or take. So people just kind of. But part of it's just like they kind of grew out of it or they feel old.

[Graham Stephan]

I've heard it also. Yeah. Like it makes you feel different as your body ages. Like when you, when I heard from a lot of people that smoked a lot of that, like when they're younger, it like makes you feel good. And then when you get older, for some reason anxiety starts happening and it never happens when you're younger. Same as like getting drunk, like hangovers start happening when you get older.

[Jack]

It's just responsibility. People have responsibilities and, you know, you have payments and stuff. It's like. And then it's not worth it.

[Andrew Callahan]

I mean, I think for Kelly, as far as a long term solution, I think it would be something like psychotherapy. Just time is also the most effective thing to heal. I mean it's, it's an old cliche phrase, but time does heal and things over time do change.

[Jack]

For people to get radicalized, where do they get their information from, from?

[Andrew Callahan]

It's interesting because I left that part out of the movie because I wanted it to be more applicable to, to, to the lives of different People, you know, So I didn't, I didn't, I didn't want someone to watch it and be like, oh, Kelly consumed this and my dad consumed infowars. So I can't relate. But how Kelly's favorite program and the one that kind of sent him in that direction was a obscure satellite radio channel based out of Missouri called Bards FM that has a show on it called Scott McCabe's Patriot Street Fighter. And it's like, have you ever listened to, have you seen Hotel Rwanda before? Yeah, you know, you know they have Hutu power radio that's like, good morning tootsies, time to kill the cockroaches. That's what it sounds like, but it's like, good morning brother. Are you ready to go whoop some antifa ass out there today? Put your boots on, let's roll. It's not like neonazi programming, but it's like, it's more like just go kick some ass. It's like a wwe, I don't know, crossover. But that's what he listened to. So from what I heard from his daughter, he would smok, smoke weed, lay down in bed and just Scott McCabe in both ears and just get pumped up with the four banger.

[Jack]

Do you think there's something about his mind who's predisposition to like really resonate with that or like why, why do some people attach to those sort of things so much?

[Andrew Callahan]

I mean, he's a hard worker and everything that he had done in life he did to the fullest. I mean, he achieved the American dream. That is very rare nowadays, which is class mobility. It's promised to you, especially with the, you know, hyper positivity of the Reagan 80s that he grew up in of like pick yourself up by the bootstraps. He did that. He went from mobile home in Iowa, I believe it was, to living in an upscale Laguna Hills, like idyllic Southern California cul de sac. So that's rare. He did that, you know what I mean? And he got the law degree, he got the house, he got all that. And before that he was like a football star. So this is a kind of high achieving guy which only further serves the self mythology. So when he hears that there's a spiritual war going on, he's like, you know what if there's a war going on, I'm going to be on the front lines, I'm going to be the quarterback. This is my fight, you know. Wow.

[Graham Stephan]

You spoke on a podcast about the importance of empathy and getting people to open up how do you, how do you find the right, like, I guess, line and empathy to be able to have these sorts of discussions with people.

[Andrew Callahan]

I just think I am empathetic, you know, and I think people can pick up on it. You know, like if I see somebody struggling in any way and they're talking to me, like I feel like they can just pick up like, oh, this guy's actually wants to hear me out. I'm not just looking to slam dunk on them or make some kind of political point.

[Jack]

Now how often does someone say something that you're like, I don't really think you should say, say that all the time. And how do you, how do you balance that? Because on the one hand they are coming up on the free will talking to you, exposing something. But on the other hand, I see some of these people on Tick Tock where I'm like, you are smashed drunk. Oh, admitting to like cheating on your husband, you're having like five sums and you're bragging about this with your girlfriends. There's no way that's a good idea.

[Andrew Callahan]

I mean, I don't do like that anymore. But it's sad because I know that I sort of created the party strip interview model. And that's the thing that I'm most ashamed about is, you know, I was in Scottsdale the other day just visiting some, some friends, you know. Scottsdale, Arizona. Yeah. And I'm walking on this party strip where there's like faced college kids walking down the street, you know what I mean? Yelling. They don't know what they're doing. They're just kids. And then you have four men on the street, dead sober interviewers asking everybody, what's your body count? What's the freakiest you ever done? Is have you ever cheated on your girl? Can y'all trade phones? You know, so I'm like, bro, that's up. There should be some kind of like penalty for that. Like you're creating a digital footprint for these people to going to up their career and trajectory. Why would you want to do something like that for me in Quarter Confessions? This is New Orleans, bro. Like it's, that's a place where anything goes. Like most of the people in Quarter Confessions, they're just New Orleans ass people who like, they're already an open book, man. They're, they're down there. But you got these college kids who are going to go on to like live corporate lives and work in the white collar industry. They might lose their job 10 years from now.

[Jack]

Yeah, I don't Think people realize just the severity of that. I think it will eventually be an issue when someone loses their job. Someone like, has, you know, something terrible happens.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Because they were a knee presence created, couldn't necessarily consent to like, having their interview out there in that capacity. I, I think it's gonna hit a sticking point at, at some level.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, well, it technically actually is illegal. You know, it all goes back to a court case with Girls Gone Wild in, like the late 90s. You know, they filmed some girls in Daytona Beach, Florida who flashed the camera and they did sign, you know, release forms, but they actually won like millions in court saying that release forms past a certain level of inebriation are actually void. So technically all these body count people even like the hawk to a girl, she could sue that dude if she can prove that her blood alcohol content was in like.

[Jack]

Well, I have a feeling at some point they're going to have to do a breathalyzer on camera and be like, if you're under.08, we could interview you. If you're above that, like, we can't use the foot.

[Andrew Callahan]

Imagine your foot. You're a kid, right? You're a kid 30 years from now, right. And you're like, you. We're. We're young. We got to see pictures of our parents, like through, you know, cute pictures of them or parents at their wedding and shit. These kids are going to have videos of their mom and dad talking about, like, eating ass. You know what I mean? And that's not cool.

[Jack]

How did you come up with. With the idea? Did you see that working?

[Andrew Callahan]

No, I saw it was the show Taxi Cab Confessions.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

You know what I mean? It was just interesting how it's past a certain hour, if you have genuine conversations, you get a sort of window into the soul. And there was a lot of genuine conversations in quarter confessions, you know what I mean? Conversations about heartbreak, life, loss. All that stuff did happen. It wasn't just incest confessions, but even so it was more ingest, even when it was incest, because it's. It's the South. People are just having fun.

[Jack]

How often does someone say something to you where you can't air it?

[Andrew Callahan]

All the time.

[Graham Stephan]

And do you not.

[Andrew Callahan]

You don't. I don't hear it. No, no, no. And where do you draw the line if some. I'm trying to think, what's the last thing that somebody said that I couldn't air? I haven't really sought out people who are like, in a party environment in probably like four years. I'm trying to think, what's the last party video that I did? Oh, I did Hemingway Days in Key west and there was just old guys saying weird and I was like, I'm not going to put this in.

[Jack]

How am much do you cut out though where it's for the benefit of the person?

[Andrew Callahan]

Oh, always.

[Graham Stephan]

You're making that never for me.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. If you're a, a reasonable level headed person, you know when to cut somebody off. Unless you're just trying to ruin their life, which some people look at as good content.

[Graham Stephan]

I feel like people just don't go out expecting that they could potentially like the hawk to a girl, like become a national meme, especially in a bad way.

[Jack]

I'm going to push back on this in a way. I mean, I agree with you. I'd prefer not to be randomly filmed. But if you are in public, public, there is no privacy. I don't think there's any room for privacy if you were in public doing something.

[Graham Stephan]

But that's different with the digital age versus just like being in public where like stuff won't spread to like hundreds of millions of people.

[Andrew Callahan]

It's also like public privacy is, is not in terms of surveillance. Yeah, on every street corner there is a camera filming you, but on every street corner there's not a guy being like, would you rather eat ass or suck toes? Would you have a homeless dude or let someone run train on your mom? You know what I mean? Like that is like, it's horrible. Like I remember, yeah, the Scottsdale thing, it's almost dudes with no game. That's kind of what they do.

[Jack]

I could see that. But I, but I do think that there's a level where if you are in a public space, you have to present yourself in a way where you wouldn't want to be embarrassed.

[Andrew Callahan]

That's true.

[Jack]

You could be accosted by a guy coming, yo, would you eat ash?

[Andrew Callahan]

Would you?

[Jack]

Yeah, but if you don't give the reaction.

[Graham Stephan]

But no one is going to go out in public with that consideration until we have like thousands of people on one street like trying to interview. It's like, okay, I'm just not even.

[Andrew Callahan]

You know, dude, like I've been drunk and embarrassed myself in public. I've thrown up, I've fallen down. I've almost gotten into a fight a couple times when I was in college. You know what I mean? I embarrassed myself enough with like there being 30 people around me. And we have such an extreme like shame and guilt culture in America that like if, if all of a sudden removed from that environment, you have a hundred thousand people being like, damn, that girl's a hoe, or like, damn, that dude's a. You know what I mean? That's a whole different level because you have people who don't even go out. You have like puritanical people who see anyone drinking and they're like, ah, you're beating of shit.

[Graham Stephan]

On the podcast, we talk a ton about how to grow your wealth, but there's a question that is just as crucial. What happens if you're not around to protect it? What happens to your family, your home, your future? Well, don't wait for the unexpected. With our sponsor, Select Quote, you can secure your family's financial future no matter what tomorrow brings. Selectquote is one of America's leading insurance brokers with nearly 40 years of experience helping over 2 million customers find over $700 billion in coverage since 1985. Other life insurance brokers offer impersonal one size fits all policies that may cost you more and cover you. Select Quote's licensed insurance agents work for you to tailor a life insurance policy for your individual needs in as little as 15 minutes. And did you know the more life insurance coverage you need, the more likely you are to overpay for it? Well, with Select Quote you can save up to 50% compared to other companies whether you need a $500,000 policy or a $50 million policy. And if you're in good health, they work with carriers that can get you same day coverage for up to $5 million with no medical exam required. Head to selectquote.com and a licensed insurance agent will call you right away with the right policy for your life and your budget. Select they shop, you save, get the right life insurance for you for [e-mail] go to selectquote.comich today to get started once again, that is selectquote.comich thank you so much to Selectquote for sponsoring this episode. Is there anyone that you wouldn't talk to? I noticed you you talked with Alex Jones and that for a lot of people I feel like could be crossing the line.

[Andrew Callahan]

If someone thinks that is crossing the line, that's their problem. I mean, Alex Jones is a popular media figure who I was critical of in the interview. But the way that liberals want to want to exist is just ignore them and they'll go away when obviously Trump just won. So evidently the policy of don't platform a problematic person and they'll just gradually sort of spin out into oblivion doesn't happen. I think that we should be encouraging more conversations across the political spectrum. And if these so called progressives want to move forward with like a post Trump reality, they have to factor in what factors caused these people to be like that in the first place, like Kelly, you know, because you can't ignore that there's 77 million people, many of whom are working, working classed, non privileged American people who voted for Trump. So it's like, let's figure that out. Instead of, you know, dividing people among lines of like, oh, you talk to Alex Jones, you must support fascism. But that being said, I wouldn't interview like the Klan, I wouldn't interview like neo Nazis, I wouldn't pick a white supremacist group from obscurity and give them the chance to recruit via my platform.

[Graham Stephan]

Interesting. So you're saying people that already have some sort of a platform, everybody knows.

[Andrew Callahan]

Who Alex Jones is? Yeah. So if I talk to Alex Jones, no one's gonna be like, wow, this guy's huge. Seems cool. But if I were to take some dude like, you know, like Orange County White power and like made them these huge icons and let millions of people see what they're about, that would absolutely increase their numbers.

[Graham Stephan]

So what about someone like Andrew Tate?

[Andrew Callahan]

I would talk to Andrew Tate. I think it's an interesting. He's an interesting guy. I think it's interesting. I'd be curious to know why so many, like young dudes, like turned away from progressive ideologies altogether and turned toward the manosphere. It's obviously happened and I have an idea as to why, you know, what's your idea? Why? I just think that identity politics have really made people feel excluded, especially young dudes, not just white, and made to feel like their value, their ideas don't matter because they're too high on the privilege hierarchy. And I think that class politics have been totally, you know, erased by people who are obsessing over identity shit. And that's why you have so many people being like, you know what, fuck all this shit, I don't want to care about anyone. If I don't matter as much as the next person, then I'll tapping out.

[Graham Stephan]

Because I think that would be a really interesting conversation is you talking with him. I just feel like you'd be able to, I don't know, take it somewhere where a lot of other people haven't been able to do. And there's no denying the impact that he's made.

[Andrew Callahan]

Absolutely.

[Graham Stephan]

Like, I mean, you know, hundreds of millions of people skyrocketing to the level of Fame. He was, you know, arguably, like, one of the most recognizable people in the United States for quite a bit.

[Andrew Callahan]

And the. And the question why it never really gets talked about. You have, like, publications that are compromised, like CNN and Bloomberg being like, why so many young, sexist white men gravitating toward this piece of.

[Graham Stephan]

And it's just. It literally just perpet actuating the exact same thing. It's just, like, proving that agenda.

[Andrew Callahan]

It's definitely interesting. I'm curious about the manosphere in general, you know, and, like, why it's seen as being so beta to care about people.

[Graham Stephan]

And it would be fascinating if you had a video where you talked with, like, all of those guys.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

In the video. And got down to, like, the nitty gritty.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. Because one thing too is, like, I'm not, like, a easily offended person, and I don't police people's speech really either. And there's this conception that, like, a lot of people think that I'm, like, super soft because I'm not conservative. Like, some of those manosphere dudes, like, oh, this liberal dude is, like, scared to say, you know what I mean? Stuff like that, where I'm like, bro, it's. It's deeper than that. Like, I think that everyone needs to be incorporated into every conversation pretty much. Unless there's such a small vocal minority that their perspective doesn't represent a lot of people.

[Graham Stephan]

We definitely have to draw that line constantly on our podcast. And I would probably air on the side of, like, ah, you know, like, whatever we could have on anyone, but Graham definitely is a little bit more disciplined in terms of this.

[Jack]

Part of me worries that there. There are certain people. If we have them all on, just us having them on is a level to a certain extent of endorsement.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And I personally, I love to talk to people who I'm just curious about, and I'm not the type where I really want to, like, push back on things and disagree. Yeah, that's not fun for me. I'm just more inquisitive. I'm very curious about certain people and. And why they believe the things that they do.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah, exactly. But you don't across, isn't it?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

If you don't push back, then it's like, okay, well, just me talking to you is almost seen as me. It's an endorsement.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. I just think it depends how shitty the person actually is. You know what I mean? Like, if someone, like, for example, Alex Jones made a mistake when he talked about the Sandy Hook situation in the way that he did. Right. But, you know, I think he's been dragged enough by the media about it. I think he's talked about it a million times. If I'm going to sit down with him again, I'm going to be curious about other things. So there's also the problem of when you platform some. Somebody problematic, you have to continuously reinforce your own morality and be like, hey, I know we're having a great conversation, but what you said was fucked up. What are they supposed to say to that? That's not.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah, it's just a continual.

[Andrew Callahan]

Oh, yeah, you're right. Right. So it's like if I was to speak to Enrique Tario again, who just got free to storm the Capitol, you know what I mean? I would definitely bring up that. I think January 6th is wrong. That's a pretty major plot point. But I'd be more curious about life after being released, not continuously dragging someone in the mud for a mistake that they made, even if it landed them in jail.

[Jack]

Yeah, so for some of these people, I've noticed, you go and they like, black out their faces and they, like, put on the sunglasses. They wear the glasses, gloves. How do you find these people? How do they trust you not to show their identity? Because basically they're exposing themselves on camera to you. And you could very easily just be like, all right, guys, we got them.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And then like, store them in. How do you navigate that?

[Andrew Callahan]

One thing that's interesting, and you can, if you look at like Tommy G or Buckingham's work is, you'll. You'll see that even the most up hardened criminals with like, no conscience, with like a hundred bodies, bodies, they still want clout. They still want attention. That is as important to them as profit, especially in the U.S. like, when it comes to the cartel, they don't want attention. They're not trying to be on anybody's vlog. But American gangsters, you know, they. They rap too. They do all kinds of different. So the track brothers were like, oh, I'm trying to be In a Channel 5 video, you know, So I was.

[Jack]

Seeing almost like a flex, to me.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, yeah, it's for sure a flex. Because even if you're. You're like covered in a sheisty and you have gloves on, your voice is distorted. You can still tell your homeboys, like, look, I got, you know, 5 million views. Like, know who I am?

[Jack]

Are they worried about any legal consequences? Like, is there any way that, you know, if they blur out the face and distort the voice, it, like, it could be traced back to Them I.

[Andrew Callahan]

Think that they're already taking. They're already taking so many risks by like importing the precursors and actually cooking Tran that when it comes to like a YouTube channel, it's not like on the top of the the rank ranking list for like most sketchy situations for getting caught, you know.

[Jack]

Do you ever fear for your life being in like one of those positions where, you know, you have a guy who's like, you know, strapped with weapons, like at any moment if he feels like he's being threatened, I fear for.

[Andrew Callahan]

My life after that. Makes sense. When I watch the footage, I think, holy shit, I could have died right there. But in the moment, I'm so focused on doing the interview that I'm like, ah, it's going to be fine. Then I rewatch it and I'm like, dude, what if a rival drug dealer came and shot that place up? Or like, what if the cops decided to knock on the door and raid it and they decided to have a shootout with the cops? The cop. And I'm wearing plain clothes. I didn't have a suit on. They'd probably kill me too.

[Jack]

Do you ever have any precautions of like a bulletproof vest or like.

[Andrew Callahan]

No. I should start though, probably.

[Graham Stephan]

Did you see, I think his name is Arab and he went to Haiti and he got kidnapped by like the barbecue gang.

[Andrew Callahan]

Arab is crazy. Yeah, yeah, I said he's. I saw him with the Taliban recently too, in Afghanistan. He's like hanging out with the Taliban.

[Jack]

I am.

[Andrew Callahan]

The president of Haiti was assassinated by US backed Colombian mercenaries and the, the power vacuum created in Puerto Prince specifically allowed gangs to take control of the city. So like, each neighborhood in all the Haitian major cities is controlled by a bunch of different street gangs who are competing for territory. The. The mo. The kind of MVP of the Haitian gang war right now is a guy named Jimmy Charizar, AKA Barbecue. Arab was on the way to interview Barbecue and I think his fixer, which is a term for like someone who sets up an interview for money. I think the fixer got him kidnapped somehow for ransom and then he was.

[Graham Stephan]

Basically kidnapped for like a couple weeks.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, Honestly bro, out know if it was real? Really? I don't know, dude. Like, maybe it's good video. I mean, look, bro, no hate on Arab. Great video. However, my initial thought was like, no way.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah, that would be interesting. Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

Who knows? Just the pacing of it. He's. He was like, hope nothing goes wrong. And next thing you know, it's like he's kidnapped. Like it's pretty Good marketing for. And then it was paywalled too.

[Graham Stephan]

Just my thought it was paywalled. It almost got me too.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, exact. Exactly.

[Jack]

You know what, that's a great point. I mean I'm, I'm just not familiar with this. But, but, but hearing through this, I.

[Andrew Callahan]

Mean, yeah, I don't see kidnapped. To learn more, go to my Patreon. I kind of did that with the Border Patrol though. So I'm not gonna, you know, be.

[Jack]

What did you do with them?

[Andrew Callahan]

I got arrested by the Border Patrol and I basically talked about my experience and I hired a 3D graphic animator to recreate my experience in the migrant detention facility. And I pay wall that, but I pay all that so I could pay back the Department of Homeland Security because they charged me $10,000.

[Jack]

Why did you do that?

[Andrew Callahan]

Was it just beside my mom, she had the first thing she said when I got out of jail. Why did you do that?

[Jack]

Why did you need to specifically do that? Why couldn't you?

[Andrew Callahan]

I don't know, dude.

[Jack]

Is that about making con? But like, I feel like we have a line of like, you know, being. Trafficking yourself versus talking to other people who have had their experiences or talking to the people.

[Andrew Callahan]

A lot of those major risks, I was like on hiatus in a super depressive state. So I was already like ready to die. And so a lot of those risks that I took, I was like, you know what? I'm. If I'm going to die, I'll die in the field. I would never hop the border again like that.

[Jack]

Where do you think this risk taking behavior comes from? Because you certainly put yourself in harm's way multiple times. Like I wouldn't have the courage to. Or, or the desire to do, I would say even a tenth of what you do. Or put myself in those situations where something could happen.

[Andrew Callahan]

I'm trying to look back and think. I mean, I grew up writing graffiti in Seattle, climbing on freeway signs and shit. So probably some of that those adrenaline impulses work to my advantage now.

[Graham Stephan]

Do you think that legacy journalism is probably on its way out? Because I see a lot of people using Twitter or using other sort of like citizen journalist Stu.

[Andrew Callahan]

It's on its way out and it's being replaced by a worse machine.

[Jack]

And what is that? Just algorithms?

[Andrew Callahan]

No, algorithmic clickbait. All these journalists who are like, masquerading as like independent reporters who are just like literally following the exact. Following the exact same incentive structure of the mainstream media. Outrage, clickbait, thumbnails, false light, selective interviewing, manipulate. It's just it's crazy. You know what?

[Jack]

If anything, it actually could be worse.

[Andrew Callahan]

It is worse because it literally least.

[Jack]

To defend legacy media, they have to verify what they say to at least a certain degree. And they have liability in what they say.

[Andrew Callahan]

Exactly.

[Jack]

But some dude on YouTube.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

With 100 followers and say whatever they want to and they have nothing to.

[Andrew Callahan]

Lose because outrage sells more. You know what I mean? Anger sells more. And so for Channel 5, we try to lock. Walk that fine line between creating engagement because people like the journalism and employing just enough shock to get people to click, which is hard. But it's even worse now, especially like most journalists today, it's just vox pop and what that refers to. I read it on Wikipedia one time. It's. You just get people's reactions to what's already happening. So it's not. You know what I'm saying? So if you hear that there's people eating cats and dogs in Springfield, Ohio, if you're one of these new journalists, you will go there and, and get people to say that because it feeds something that's already circulating on the algorithm. And you, you basically harvest algorithmic engagement to get revenue for yourself. So I don't know what, I don't know how that's worse than like, you know, Fox News doing punditry and creating fear with like putting videos on repeat migrant crime. It's kind of.

[Jack]

I don't like how easy it is for misinformation to spread. That for me is the, the most difficult part. And it's hard sometimes to even find the truth. Like you saw the picture speaking of the eating cats and dogs. But there's the guy holding the, the goose. And the story was that this guy like killed this goose and is going.

[Andrew Callahan]

To eat it, which is legal.

[Jack]

The truth was that this was on the side of the road. It was roadkill. And it was being moved. The narrative became. He killed it to eat it. And he's not from the country, but like the, the way that spreads and people just run with it.

[Andrew Callahan]

It's fucking crazy.

[Jack]

It's nuts.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Do you feel like we are actually more divided or do you feel like it's algorithms pushing that?

[Andrew Callahan]

We are more digitally divided, but people are more apathetic and lazy crazy than ever. In 2020, people were both digitally and physically divided. You had the anti vax rallies popping off. You had a reopen. California reopened. Arizona, that was popping. And you had the George Floyd mobilizations chop in Seattle. You had Portland going crazy. City was on fire. Now, same level of division, if not Worse, but everybody's inside.

[Jack]

And how do you bring balance to that? Because I feel like, just as someone who's also on YouTube, like you, you almost can't. You can't pander to the middle. No, it's just, it's gotta be one side or the other to an extreme. And the more extreme you get, the more financially rewarded you are.

[Andrew Callahan]

I think that the, the, the responsibility here kind of lies on the consumer, too. Like, first off, as a consumer, you have to recognize that nobody's unbiased. There's no news outlet that's unbiased. Everybody who is works in journalism is conditioned by the way they grew up, the formative experiences they had. Like, for me, you know, I lost a lot of friends brutality early in life in Seattle, you know, three or four. And so when the George Floyd murder happened, I was instantaneously sort of triggered and on the side of the protesters because of my own experiences. So obviously my coverage leaned a little bit left. If I was from, you know, Cedar Rapids or the middle of Iowa, and my dad was the sheriff and he was saving kittens from trees, and I grew up in a small town, I might be like, what? The cops are awesome. This is a bad egg, but don't take this out on the cops. So the point being is that you can't escape the way that you grew up. So as, as a consumer, you have to realize, oh, I'm going to listen to T. Carlson right now. I know he, I know that he leans right. I'm going to listen to Andrew right now, and I know that he leans a little bit left, which is true. And so it's. Once you stop believing that journalists are unbiased, understand the spectrum of media bias, and be a responsible consumer, it'll work itself out. You can't expect the journalists themselves to give you the truth at this point, because they never did.

[Graham Stephan]

What would you say is the most common way that people get radicalized?

[Andrew Callahan]

Well, there's a lot of people asked me when they watched Dear Kelly, they said, why don't you do a video about, you know, a leftist or liberal version of Kelly? And I would say that there's two types of radicalization. There's conservative radicalization, which I think is caused by core need collapse. You had a perfect life, like I was saying, and everything falls apart, and you want to go back to how things were. And so you latch on to this idea of this nebulous force of evil that took that perfect life from you, and that blends perfectly with, like, the conspiracy framework. Which also points to this like nameless, faceless, just bad, spiritual, cosmic, demonic force that's like working tirelessly every day to steal everything from the red blooded American patriot. On the other side. What I would call liberal radicalization, I don't think is actually powered by need collapse, but actually needs being over fulfilled. And that creating like an extreme guilt complex that gives a lot of privileged people this complex of like, I feel so bad for how good my life is. So I'm going to dedicate my life to overcompensating for that by doing a variety of weird things like becoming a. Have you heard of a, a POC body shield? In Portland, Oregon in 2020, there was a white anarchist who would go around and they would ask black people, say, hey, can I walk you to work? Can I walk you to the bus stop to, to be a body shield for you? So I'll put my body in front of you. If a policeman tries to kill you.

[Graham Stephan]

Would people take them up on that?

[Andrew Callahan]

No, they'd be like, get the, away from me. You know what I mean?

[Graham Stephan]

But then how does that not wake someone up from the trance they're in.

[Andrew Callahan]

Of like, oh, you're indoctrinated by the system. I understand.

[Graham Stephan]

That's so patronizing organizing now that.

[Andrew Callahan]

But that is the equivalent. So like we say, liberalism is about a utopian future. Conservatism is about a mythologized past. And so those are two types of radicalizations that manifest themselves in different ways. So when you see the past, you see what I'm saying?

[Jack]

Yeah. You know what I think it is? People love to have a common enemy. And there's nothing that brings you together with another person, then we both dislike that person.

[Andrew Callahan]

Right.

[Jack]

Just having that I think is one of those bonding experiences for whatever reason at a core level that people really latch onto that.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And when there's, when there's a bad guy and a good guy and it's very, very clear, my gosh, you could form a great connection with someone over that.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. And the, the interesting thing about why conservatives have been able to mobilize so much is because if you go to a Trump rally, you'll have an ayahuasca drinking bitcoin libertarian who smokes weed five times a day standing right next to an evangelical Christian pro life protester who believes that marijuana was created by the devil to like get white women to have interracial children. And they will be, they have huge disagreements. But as long as they're for the common cause and the collective interest is Getting Trump elect. They're like on the same team on the left. The individualism is so high and there's so much infighting and tearing down of each other that you, you'd be lucky to even have a group of five people on the same page when it comes to liberals, you know, because they're so obsessed with their identity and where they're placed on the hierarchy of privilege and making and holding space for people who have less that they can't even, they can't even form.

[Graham Stephan]

Have you seen Matt Walsh's Am I Racist documentary? That's kind of similar to what you did on the other way around.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

The tone, little bit different, but it's, it's similar where he's going in. Similar to you. When you say that when you interview someone, you need to kind of just like silently nod. That's like the best way that you draw out more from them. And that was kind of the idea of him infiltrating these, like, you know, like, I don't even know what you would call them, but like, groups of people that.

[Andrew Callahan]

Critical race theory, focus groups. I don't know how, dude, how.

[Graham Stephan]

Stuff like that.

[Andrew Callahan]

That's a white guilt reading club. I don't know how Matt Walsh found that, like, white guilt processing center. That was crazy. Like, I didn't even know that kind of thing existed. I mean, I'm sure it was filmed in Portland or something, so that sounds. Yeah, as a Seattleite, it was filmed in Portland.

[Graham Stephan]

What are your favorite things on the left and the right and what have you seen to be the best, like, middle of the aisle reporting?

[Andrew Callahan]

My favorite thing about conservatives is that they are in favor of free speech and they're against social media censorship. My favorite thing about the left and liberals is that they, they, they seem for the most part to genuinely care about people.

[Jack]

Do you think the right does not care about people or. Or that they care less?

[Andrew Callahan]

Well, it's different because the, the conservatism is based upon a, A celebration of the past. Right. And that past is also mythical. America being great. America always had horrible problems. The left and the progressive liberals are based upon a utopian future. They say things are really bad now, but they're going to be really good if we implement these new ideas. But they both can agree that things suck right now. The difference is one is based upon the mythology of the past. The other believes in the mythology of, like, a future. And so I think, I do think conservatives care about people, but they, they care about the people who embody the Tenants of like the. The lost past of America. So when they see migrants, they don't give a about them because they're like, dude, what the hell? We want things to be like, they were these. I don't care about these guys. But liberals, they. They hate the old. The people of the past. They see all white people like, oh, you're a. Can't wait till you die, bro. You know, they want Kid Rock to die and they want to open the borders up. Wow.

[Jack]

I've never heard it spoken.

[Graham Stephan]

I thought that was articulated actually perfectly. Very few people, I feel like, can describe both sides in seemingly as accurate as you.

[Jack]

Yeah, I would have no disagreements with that.

[Graham Stephan]

And of where you consume your media, where do you get it from? The left versus the right. And who does it? Well, in the middle.

[Andrew Callahan]

Oh, I mean, as far as the middle. If you want to get balanced reporting, it's going to be like Associated Press, like legitimately boring press bullet bulletins with no pictures that just tell you like what the weather is, how many people died, you know, what's going on. Like, you know, just actual mathematics. That's what real news is like. It's not. It's not entertaining, it's just what happened that day. If you want to get good news from the right, I don't know, probably. Probably the best entertaining news from the right is like podcasts, you know what I mean? Like, conservative podcasters are pretty hilarious. Like Sean Ryan's funny, you know what I mean? And on the left, I don't know, I feel like I'm always inundated by leftist media as it is. So it just comes to me naturally. I have to seek out the conservative, though.

[Jack]

Yeah. So I've seen a lot of conspiracies on your channel as well.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Curious. Which ones do you think have the most credibility?

[Andrew Callahan]

Well, the real conspiracies are happening in front of us right now. Trump electing the deep state, you know, him campaigning against the democratic bureaucracy, and then now assembling a private council of tech oligarchs. The late 60s COINTELPRO, the FBI, systematically infiltrating and discrediting all leftist and workers mobilizations. That. That shit's real.

[Jack]

Okay, so what do you think he's doing with like, Jeff Bezos, Elon and Mark?

[Andrew Callahan]

Creating a monopoly on information, you know, and social media.

[Jack]

And what's the benefit for them?

[Andrew Callahan]

For them? Yeah, they get to be, you know, in good graces of the president, Tax breaks, stuff like that.

[Jack]

And what do you think the outcome is going to be from something like.

[Andrew Callahan]

That just a prototype Trump reality marginalization of people who are against Trump. But of course, it's all about making sure people are as poor as possible in general. So that's kind of the.

[Jack]

And what does that do? If people are as poor as possible.

[Andrew Callahan]

It allows the profit yields to be higher for the people who are, you know, busting unions and making sure that the minimum wage stays low.

[Graham Stephan]

So do you tend. Because I don't know necessarily about like Bezos and Zuckerberg and stuff like that, but when I see Elon, or at least when I saw him in the past, obviously recently, he's definitely gone a lot more political and opinionated. But in the past, I tend to believe he was a good faith individual trying to like and not saying what I believe or don't believe now. But what do you think about like his past versus his current?

[Andrew Callahan]

I thought he was tight back in the day. I was like going to Mars. The idea of an electric car, that's great. You know what I mean? But now, you know, I don't fuck with him at all. I mean, I actually, I, I'm not that. I'm not really not, not even that against Trump. I just don't like Elon Musk. And he's not even from here. That's the biggest problem.

[Graham Stephan]

Why is that a big problem?

[Andrew Callahan]

Because he's from South Africa and he's come here, coming here and complaining about immigrants. He's got all this to say and you know what I mean, he's just stirring up problem. You look at, look at X right now, it's nothing but like a complete 24, 7 freakout echo chamber. It's just, it's, it's a problem when someone's complaining about foreign influence. They themselves are from an apartheid state.

[Jack]

I feel like everything is an echo chamber, though. Like I go on Reddit and it's extremely left. Yeah, like it very left. I go on Twitter, I would say it's 7:30. It's probably 7,030. Heavily leans right. I go on Facebook and it's just like the, the same people that I know that are just still complaining to this day, for the last 10 years.

[Graham Stephan]

They have not at least on Twitter or X like you get somewhat of a balance, whereas anywhere else you just didn't have that. And that's why I really like that.

[Andrew Callahan]

Is the one positive thing he's done.

[Graham Stephan]

And community notes, I like community notes.

[Andrew Callahan]

I didn't even know about that. I'll look into it. I mean, it's just, I have a, just Gut reaction to a lot of the people he follows and reposts, you know, provocateurs from the Pacific Northwest like Jonathan Ch. Andy. No, just people like that who are literally like their whole platform is based upon like compiling footage of like migrant crime and like videos of like black dudes like punching old ladies in the face and like post them every single day to make people think that there's some kind of like, you know, extreme crime wave happening and just create moral panic and outrage.

[Graham Stephan]

I see things like during the inauguration how when Trump was like talking about, oh yeah, we're going to end up going to Mars and you see Elon and he has like genuine excitement. So I do believe that he's a good faith individual insofar as like he wants to do the things that he claims he wants to do.

[Andrew Callahan]

Definitely. And he's going to advance, you know, right wing causes across the world. I mean the problem really is if you look at Jeff Bezos, the real working people story isn't told about Amazon. Jeff Bezos and Amazon destroyed Seattle, where I grew up. He convinced the city of Seattle and the state of Washington to give him full tax breaks to basically bulldoze all of Seattle. Capitol Hill, Belltown, Pioneer Square, downtown. Almost all of it was torn down to build Amazon offices and poorly constructed apartment buildings for their workers who have an average stay of 36 months before they get transferred elsewhere. Already there's a problem. After during COVID they figured out they could make just as much money having remote work as the norm. So all these office buildings became vacant. Landlords wouldn't stop building these apartment buildings. The cost of living has remained the same and the rent costs since pre pandemic times. The real estate blocks won't budge and Amazon is almost pulled out of the city entirely. So what we have now is the highest homelessness rate in history. Yet almost every Amazon apartment building and office is totally vacant, almost abandoned, for sale on the market, nobody wants to buy. And then you have people turning around now and saying, look at this democratic leadership, look at the filth they're allowing in the streets when these people can't even afford. There's no SROs, they can't even afford to live anywhere. And then all the businesses are shut down, there's no commerce, it's a ghost town in downtown Seattle. And then those same people that film stuff in downtown Seattle, right? And oh, look at this homeless guy setting a fire. Look at this liberal progressive policy. Those are the people who feed Elon Musk, who is a tech oligarch the information that he uses to push conservative votes.

[Jack]

Now, my understanding with that with Amazon is that they bring so much money and tax into an area that they have this way to be able to negotiate that down just because the volumes are so big, but they can pull.

[Andrew Callahan]

Out whenever they want. And that's what they did with Seattle and San Francisco. That's why San Francisco.

[Graham Stephan]

So why did they pull out of Seattle and San Francisco?

[Andrew Callahan]

Because they figured out they can make so much more money not having to maintain these office buildings so they can have remote work and zoom be the norm. Because during COVID when, when they shut the offices down, they realized that productivity and economic yield and output was the same without having to pay the overhead of having HR and having these people maintain these office buildings. So they realized we don't need to move all of our employees to Seattle. We can just have them stay where they're from.

[Graham Stephan]

So did that cause people to go homeless though?

[Andrew Callahan]

No. Basically what I'm saying is they tore down all the affordable housing units to build these expensive new apartment buildings to accommodate the income levels of the Amazon workers. And the landlords, after Bezos pulled out, wouldn't budge because they had to pay back the contracting costs of building these spots. So now you have in San Francisco, they have, they have built tech skyscrapers that are 36 floors, three floors are open. They have built apartment buildings they expected to fill with Amazon employees in San Francisco and Seattle, where now nobody lives, because they figured out who the hell would live there by choice.

[Jack]

Here's the thing, then eventually it falls back in the bank or the lender or whoever invested in this. Because I'll tell you, like, as a real estate person, if your overhead cost is, let's just say on a building like that, a million dollars a month, you can't afford to rent it out for less than your overhead cost. So they're probably just keeping it vacant. Hopefully, you know, that eventually they'll rent it out at that price, but if they don't, that then they either need to sell, take a loss, investors take a hit, the banks take a hit. I think that's coming, right?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. And. But before they took a hit, I mean, the people of Seattle took a hit. Like we lost all of our big coffee shops that had been there for, you know, decades. All these cultural staples, the factors that actually made it attractive, the cultural capital, the cultural appeal, that's gone. And we can't even affect afford to live there. Almost everybody that I graduated with, 18, 19, could not afford to live in the City of Seattle after graduation from high school and to live with their parents they had to go to the shitty south suburbs. And it's, it's yet to repopulate. And so it's unfortunate because that's the real city of the, that's the real situation on the ground in cities like San Francisco that are becoming like Detroit 2.0s because of the tech pullout. And we don't see it now, but you're going to see it in 20 years. You're going to have these empty skyscrapers and you already see like a lords and peasants style class structure in these cities. And it's because of tech, it seems to me.

[Jack]

Yeah, I would say tech and the Internet has certainly perpetuated that, but also that people are realizing they don't need to live in large cities anymore and a lot of people are relocating or working remotely.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And so you are seeing like, hey, the people that could afford to live in those areas have a lot of money and the people that don't.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Are moving elsewhere.

[Andrew Callahan]

I don't blame the living, I don't blame the tech workers. A lot of people want to take it out on the tech bros and shit. That's bullshit. I mean, dude, a lot of tech is a valuable service. There's a lot of great people who work in the technology industry and if they can choose taking their fat Amazon paycheck and moving to Texas and Idaho or Montana and be getting a beautiful like farm versus living in an apartment in San Francisco or Seattle where they're already being faced with hostility for being like an outsider. You know what they're going to pick, you know, but the problem is, is that, you know, it's just a, it's just a, it's like a self eating snake. When you invest so much in something and you pull out and all of a sudden you have these same tech billionaires blaming the progressive policymakers for allowing the decay. It's crazy.

[Jack]

You think this is going to play out like over the next 10 years.

[Andrew Callahan]

I think that you said it the best way. I think there's going to be a, a suburban and rural revival among the people in our generation. I think there's less people than ever who want to live in these inner cities. They're overpriced. The, the, the homeless situation is out of control. They're not safe. People want to live more pastoral lives. It's the opposite of what's happening in Mexico where you have everybody moving from the rural centers to the cities. I mean even people now like it's kind of crazy. I, I have inner city friends that I grew up with my whole life who are talking about farms and learning how to, you know, homestead and that, that people want, you know, because who wants to pay even if you're over, even in this area like Venice, So expensive. And for what? The city doesn't do anything with the taxes.

[Jack]

Yeah. There's something romantic about the idea that you could be completely self sustained and be off the grid, you know, just have solar, cook your food in the backyard. You don't really need no hoa, no nothing like that. Property taxes, that's a big, that's a big one, man. Every year they raise the property taxes that go up, you know, a few thousand dollars.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, I got to learn more about that because I'm looking to buy my first home pretty soon. You know, I'm getting to, I'm going.

[Jack]

To talk you out of that pretty soon.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. So you think that there's no state in America where it's a good investment to buy a home?

[Graham Stephan]

I think. Well, okay, let, let's preface this. If you find a good deal, then you find a good deal.

[Andrew Callahan]

Okay.

[Graham Stephan]

But generally speaking, it's getting more to be on the side of the spectrum of like needle in a haystack than it is like, okay, you just kind of buy a house, you'll be okay.

[Jack]

So if we want to talk about buying a home, we'll buy, talk about buying a home. I think it's a great idea to buy a home if number one, you could afford it safely, assuming your income goes down. In a worst case scenario, we had a recession, something, your income goes down by, you know, 30%, you could still afford the home. A home, that's a good deal because at a right price, everything makes sense to buy. Okay, so it's a good deal and you plan on staying there for probably at least 10 to 20 years. Okay, then I think, then I think it makes sense. There's a great thing, it's called the New York Times, Rent versus borrow. Buy a calculator. And what that is, you could, you could type in like your opportunity cost of investing in the stock market instead. How much rents go up, how much property taxes go up, your insurance, maintenance, repairs, things like this add up.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Like even if this house were paid off, completely paid off, it would be about 45 grand a year just to maintain it.

[Andrew Callahan]

So I think because you have no landlord. I didn't even think about that. With no landlord, you have to acquire pe. You have to pay people to do that you would call your landlord about, Correct? Oh, man.

[Jack]

But there's a lot. But, but it's, but it's property tax, you, it's maintenance, it's insurance.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

I was talking to a buddy yesterday. He pays $60,000 a year in property insurance because his property is located in the hillside and it's just a fire risk. So his insurance went from what used to be like six grand a year, 500 bucks a month, which is a lot, to $60,000 a year. And then you think to yourself, okay, $60,000 a year, and then you pay on top of that another $30,000 a year for property tax.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Another $10,000 a year, year for repairs. Now you're at $100,000 a year, not even counting your mortgage.

[Andrew Callahan]

We're in hell.

[Jack]

So you could rent an identical home for, let's call it $8,000 a month. And, and by the way, these are high end Los Angeles prices. So the average person could be like eight grand a month. But, but you could, but you could rent a home for cheaper than it is to buy. So I would say for the average person, let's say you're starting a family, you want to settle down in an area you could, you could comfortably afford the home. You want to live there for the next 20 years. I think it could be a great idea to buy a house, lock yourself in. And, and there's a mental peace of mind that you get by owning a house and not having a land.

[Andrew Callahan]

That's what I'm looking for. So we'll circle back in two years, we'll have a more, a better conversation because now I'm not going to buy.

[Jack]

The thing is. Yeah, that was it.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. He's smart.

[Jack]

Well, here's the thing.

[Andrew Callahan]

He said words I don't know.

[Jack]

So I believe all it is is this. I look at the numbers. I, I'm very logical. Like I, I, I have connections to houses, but the, the, the amount of money I spend on it would, would over, overturn that. So when I look at the numbers and I think, oh, I could, I could buy this great house for, for numbers here for a million dollars.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

That's going to cost me $8,000 a month in overhead. Or I could rent an identical house for 3,700.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And I could save the difference and invest it. And I have no money down. I'm not locked into this house. If the roof breaks, I don't have to fix it. I have no responsibility. And I could pick up a move anytime without any closing costs. I'd rather pay the rent.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

When that buying becomes equal, or when I think that, hey, I could fix it up, it's a great deal and I'm going to come into 100,000 equity and I could. Then I'll buy. But until the numbers make sense, like, I would be a renter. Like, I'm, I'm not, you know, Well, I am.

[Andrew Callahan]

So I'll just keep it going.

[Jack]

So that's, that's, that's my argument.

[Andrew Callahan]

Hell yeah.

[Jack]

As, as a real estate investor, like, I wish I could as a landlord.

[Graham Stephan]

People comments, like, he'll comment that, like, oh, a landlord wants more people to rent.

[Andrew Callahan]

Go figure.

[Jack]

But the thing is, it's like they don't realize. Like, I'm not buying anything new. And whether or not you rent or buy makes no difference to me. They said the same thing when I used to work as a real estate agent. I was telling people in, like from 2016 to 2020, when I was a real estate agent, I was telling people, it's a great time to buy. Now is the time to buy. And everyone's like, oh, because he's a real estate agent, sell us it. And I was telling people, refinance your mortgage.

[Andrew Callahan]

Shout out to my real estate agent, Rachel, if you're watching this, thank you for helping me secure my beautiful home.

[Graham Stephan]

Shout out, rachel.

[Jack]

Hey, Rachel. So anyway, but, but it's, I have. But it makes no difference. Like, I'm not taking on new clients. And so it's like, hey, whether you buy or like, sell or rent it, that makes zero difference to me. Makes zero difference if you rent or buy. I just, I want you to save money. And that just gives me a feeling of personal satisfaction. If people could save money and invest, that's it.

[Andrew Callahan]

Hell yeah.

[Jack]

So that's my, that's my rant for.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jack]

But you know what? Before we go into that, if you run your own business, you know there's no better sound than hearing. And if you want to hear a bunch more, then it's time to get started with today's sponsor, Shopify. Shopify is home to the number one checkout on the planet, with way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going. For example, Shopify is a service called Shop Pay that allows their customers to save their email address, shipping information, billing and payment instructions, and that boosts conversions by up to 50%.

[Graham Stephan]

And if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling on the web in your store, in their feed and everywhere in between.

[Jack]

All in all, nobody's selling better than Shopify. So if you're ready to upgrade your business, sign up for a $1 trial period at shopify.comichall lowercase again that is.

[Graham Stephan]

Shopify.Comich all lowercase shopify.comich thank you so much to Shopify for sponsoring this episode. And back to the podcast.

[Jack]

Now, while we're on that topic, you gotta ask yourself, what makes a leader stand out? It's not just about taking charge, but about setting new standards and embracing bold moves. So if you lead by example and live with passion, then our sponsor, the Range Rover Sport is made for you. Every model of the Range Rover Sport offers a unique blend of dynamic sophistication and sporting luxury. It's where refined elegance meets visceral power. With focused on road performance and world renowned off road capability, this vehicle rises to every occasion. Experience the adaptive off road cruise control that adjusts to your terrain and dynamic air suspension for superior agility and control. Plus adaptive dynamics ensures smooth, composed handling by minimizing unwanted body movements. For those who elevate their desires and lead by example, the Range Rover Sport is more than a luxury vehicle, it's a statement. Discover it today at land Rover USA.com again that's Land Rover USA.com with the link down below in the description. Thank you so much Range Rover Sport for sponsoring this episode. And now let's get back to the podcast. So I'm curious, when it comes to finances, like how do you structure your business? Where does the money come from?

[Andrew Callahan]

So probably 80% of the income comes directly from Patreon. So we have I think probably like 50,000 patrons or no, maybe like 30,000 patrons. And they all pay $5 a month for exclusive uncensored access to like extended cuts of the episodes, early release, behind the scenes footage and just like stuff that we can't post elsewhere with that money. We have a team of four editors, one senior production manager, one pre production manager and an office assistant. So we're like six or seven deep right now. We also have an office in the Valley now. So we have an office, it's all fan supported. And then we also have different companies where we do sponsored ad reads for them, like notably Ground News and sometimes NordVPN. So they pay a pretty good amount of Money for a 90 second ad read in certain, you know, more safe videos, more successful videos and that also keeps the lights on.

[Jack]

How much do you make from ad revenue and videos like this?

[Andrew Callahan]

Like 20k, that's more than I would.

[Jack]

I would have expected 20k for a video.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jack]

I would have expected a lot less. I mean, your videos get a lot.

[Graham Stephan]

Of views, but, like, CPMs would have.

[Jack]

Been lower because sometimes we'll talk about, like, edgier subjects, and instantly our CPMs just crash on the podcast.

[Andrew Callahan]

Really.

[Jack]

For, like, what I would think is, like, we're very mild.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

But certain things, like, we were talking to a Navy SEAL guy, and that just completely got shut down.

[Andrew Callahan]

Why the is that? Shout out to the veterans.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah, well, he was talking about some pretty gruesome. He's illustrating very graphic.

[Andrew Callahan]

Okay.

[Graham Stephan]

Things that he saw in Iraq. It will. I mean, now it's like, in Burma.

[Andrew Callahan]

Oh. They're doing special ops, so.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

Well, no, he's. It's complicated, but, yeah, he's doing it, like, as a citizen, not actually for the government.

[Andrew Callahan]

Oh, his. Like a mercenary.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

Holy.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

Wow.

[Jack]

It's great story, but YouTube didn't like. What. You know, it was probably just because of the graphic nature.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And it was a bit.

[Andrew Callahan]

It.

[Jack]

It's hard to hear. And there might have been an audience out there who hears this.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And they don't want to have that go into their mind, which I understand. It was tough for me to hear, too.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. Okay.

[Graham Stephan]

So you're making good money.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

Are you saving? Investing it? What are you doing?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, I just don't. You know, I support my mom. I got her a house out here, here on the west side. Me and my dad. I gave him the investment to open up a sports bar in Seattle called Last Call, which is in Fremont slash Ballard. So he's been running that by himself. He's killing it up there. And the Eagles just won. So if you're gonna go to the super bowl to party anywhere and you're an Eagles fan, go to my dad's bar in Fremont. Yeah, I mean, I take care of everybody around me, you know, I take care of my dogs, my gf. As far as saving money. Yeah. I have a bunch saved. I have. So I have, like, an investment manager.

[Graham Stephan]

Who'S like, oh, you have a financial advisor?

[Andrew Callahan]

I got a financial advisor. And he put like, a million away in stocks and nice stocks, you know?

[Jack]

Do you pay attention to what's going on?

[Andrew Callahan]

No.

[Graham Stephan]

Do you have any idea what it's at right now?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. No. He calls me once a month and he's like, we're doing good. And I'm like, thank you. His name's Jonathan.

[Jack]

Any other invest. What about cryptocurrency?

[Andrew Callahan]

No, no. No, no, I can't. I don't know anything about it, but obviously you guys do.

[Graham Stephan]

So you, you put money in it. So you have money in a savings account. You put a hundred or one million dollars into an investment account, some guy's managing that Y. You don't know what that exactly is?

[Andrew Callahan]

No, but I do know that it goes up like 2 or 3% every time, which is sick.

[Graham Stephan]

Every month?

[Andrew Callahan]

No, every quarter.

[Jack]

Two to 3% a quarter? Well, it depends if that's. Well, no, it really 2%. Yeah, yeah, it, it depends when that time frame is. Cuz the S and p is up 24% the last year. So we got to see if he's underperforming the index and what he has you in it. Might have you something too safe.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, he. He asked me do I want low, medium or high risk and I said medium risk. Okay.

[Graham Stephan]

It be interesting to see exactly what he's done for you.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, I'm excited. I want to get more into it. It's just. I don't know if it's like I have math class trauma or something, but when someone starts saying I'm just like, I got to get out of here, you know, he'll be like, do you want me to break down what's going on? I'm like, no, no, no, I didn't do my homework. You know what I mean? But yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

Is money important to you?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

Like, in terms of what? Because it seems as though it's not based off of some of the things we've discussed.

[Andrew Callahan]

It's important because it makes it so my mom doesn't have to work and I can get Airbnbs for my grandma and just take care of stuff, you know what I mean? I just like taking care of people. I don't need money. I'm cool to live in the rv, but you know, everyone around me likes nice for things. Like my mom's kind of bougie. You know, she wants to go to Paris and shit. My girl also, you know, she. She wants to go to Jamaica. So I'm taking her next week. So it's about other people. If I had it my way, I'd probably live in the RV still and you know, not make any money or just enough to keep it moving. But you know, I don't really have finer T tastes or anything tastes, you know, like go to restaurants, still eat out of like Panda Express, obviously, but you know, yeah, I don't need money, but I like taking care of people. That's it.

[Jack]

Who do you feel like, is the most misunderstood from the people that you talk to?

[Andrew Callahan]

Probably the furries, man. The furries are chill as. The furries are so cool. I thought they all were attracted to animals before I met them.

[Graham Stephan]

That's kind of what I think. Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

No, they're not.

[Jack]

Why do they have such a bad rep?

[Andrew Callahan]

Kind of looks scary.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

Especially because they're all adults. You know, if they're little kids and it was like a kid subculture, but it's like an adult subculture, and there is a sexual component. Okay.

[Jack]

Why do people get drawn to furries?

[Andrew Callahan]

Because they have. They're on the spectrum. A lot of them are. You know what I mean? And for people who have a hard time making eye contact and they love animals, it provides, like, a childish way to, like, be able to express yourself without the awkwardness of eye contact is, you know, common in most interactions.

[Jack]

So for furries, is it something where they just go to a convention and they wear the outfit, or is it they just wear the outfit at all times? I don't know.

[Andrew Callahan]

Let's. A really good question. Yeah, there's actually a big furry antifa crossover. When I was at an antifa protest in Portland, someone's like, dude, I haven't seen you since Furfest. So I think these are people who enjoy costuming, and I don't think they wear the furry all the time. I think they have furry meetups. I've seen them here at Venice Beach. I've seen them at. At parks in downtown. I think furries are, like, probably 30, 70. 30. Being furred out. 70 regular.

[Jack]

What do you mean furred out?

[Andrew Callahan]

Wearing a fur suit all times in garbage. 30% of the time. They're very hot, too. The fur suits, like, okay, okay.

[Graham Stephan]

Like, temperature.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Jack]

I thought you meant the people.

[Andrew Callahan]

That too.

[Jack]

So what type of people do you not get along with, dude?

[Andrew Callahan]

Nobody. I get along with everybody.

[Jack]

Has it always been the case?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jack]

Ever since you're a kid.

[Andrew Callahan]

I don't like bullies.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

You know, but other than that, you know, there's not really many. There's not bully adults.

[Jack]

Why do you think you could relate to so many people, man?

[Andrew Callahan]

Just growing up around a lot of people, bro. My mom, dude, she took me to the library when I was young. She introduced me to people at the library. She'd also make me give out cookies to the homeless people in the subway system in Philly.

[Jack]

Oh, wow.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Did that provide you with maybe a different perspective?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. Probably trained me to not be freaked out by homeless people. Yeah.

[Jack]

You know what, what's, what's interesting. My, my earliest experience with a homeless person growing up in LA was Adventist Beach. Yeah, it's a very positive experience, believe it or not. Iconic. A butterfly. As I was kid, I. I must have been like first or second grade. No.

[Andrew Callahan]

Really? Yeah.

[Jack]

I caught a butterfly and I wanted to put it in like a container or something like this. And I think I just like walked up to like there was, there was a homeless couple and it must have been 50s or 60s. And I walked up and like they, I think they asked me like, hey, what do you have in your hand? I'm like, it's a butterfly. I'm looking for a container. I think that's why I was looking for a container. And I went up to him and. And she was like, hold on, I'll be right back. And I think she went through the trash and like gave me a container and I put the butterfly in the container so I could look at the butterfly.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And it was a really just. They were normal people, just a couple. But then the teacher was like, oh my God, what are you doing?

[Andrew Callahan]

You know, get away from those freaks.

[Jack]

Something like that. But I just remember them being really, really, really kind, nice. And they just seem like people who were down on their luck.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, definitely.

[Jack]

What percentage of people do you feel like fall into that camp versus is people who have severe mental issues?

[Andrew Callahan]

I think it's about. It depends where you're at. Like, I mean every homeless community is a little bit different. Even here in la, at Venice Beach, a lot of it is voluntary homelessness. They might live in a van, they chill at the, at the, at the beach all day by the skate park. There's some mental illness, but it's mostly like the culture, like the folk culture of, of being homeless. It's thing in New Orleans, it's mostly voluntary homeless gutter punks who are into like train hopping. And there's different subcultures among the, among the homeless. If you go to downtown skid row, that is mostly mental health issues. Most people living down there, nobody would ever choose that because they want to. You know, it's just not by the ocean. A lot of people get ran out of Venice and have to go downtown, you know, so there's certain levels of community policing amongst homeless encampments, like in the tunnels or, you know, even in, in la.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

What has been the most effective policy that actually combats homelessness? Because it seems like no place has been able to figure it out. You've spent so much time around these people. People. If you just forced them.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

Into certain homes, into rehabilitation facilities, would that actually solve the issue?

[Andrew Callahan]

The problem is homelessness can be tackled on a city level with mental health treatment and housing. However, that's if you take the homeless community that exists and don't add any. Anybody else to it. The problem is right now you have. While simultaneously you have harm reduction sites and safe injection sites opening up in California, you also have other states and even counties in Oregon and Washington who are criminalizing homelessness and threatening to take people to jail, take away their right to vote, all that shit, if they are caught homeless more than three times with the vagrancy laws. So I think one was called the Grants Pass law. But in Idaho, it's illegal to be homeless. In Montana, it's illegal to be homeless on all these states. So what they're. What they're doing on purpose is creating mass migrations to California. So you got homeless people from everywhere else in the country flocking to San Francisco because they can't be homeless elsewhere. You have. One time I was in Austin, Texas, and I saw the police buy Greyhound bus tickets to Santa. Hundreds of homeless people to Portland, Oregon, because they have services there. So you take something that starts off maybe positive, where you might be able to see some change, and it gets overwhelmed by the sheer number of homeless vagrants. And then before you know it, the system's being taken advantage of, you know, where people are coming from. You know, so there is, there is a way to solve homelessness on a small scale, but there's no solving skid row. I mean, maybe there is, but it's definitely not going to be through voluntary outreach programs.

[Jack]

Do you think the harm reduction facilities are working, or do you think it just attracts more people to go to those specific locations?

[Andrew Callahan]

It does both. That's the problem. You see what I'm saying? It works if you have a community of addicts who are living in a place where they're already from there and they're overdosing. And this is making it so they have access to like a treatment center or clean needles so they don't get AIDS or sepsis or hep C. But all of a sudden, word, word travels fast on the streets. So you got people in Salt Lake City where they don't have a harm reduction facility being like, oh, we can get free fucking crack pipes in sf. They're on that first bus. The country is big, but it's not that big. I mean, word, especially along the frontier on the west, past the Rockies, travels Really fast.

[Jack]

I've always felt like homelessness should be somewhat of a federal issue because you have people from around the country that do flock usually to California because of.

[Andrew Callahan]

The weather and Washington.

[Jack]

Because of the treatment.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And because of the treatment, you know, now some people could argue, well, California's providing these, you know, certain things, and of course they're going there, so California's got to deal with it. But you know, when Las Vegas's solution to homelessness, as far as I'm aware, is simply, we'll get you a bus ticket anywhere.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And they just say, all right, California, right now you're getting people from other states that just migrate to California because it's illegal there. Be interesting if California just says, all right, well, it's illegal here too.

[Andrew Callahan]

Right.

[Jack]

Are they going to go to another state where it's not like. Yeah, I feel like it's. It's got to be solved from such a big level.

[Andrew Callahan]

That's what's fascinating is California is absorbing the problems of other states and being blamed for it simultaneously. And I'm not saying that Gavin Newsom has, you know, the best policies, but he also shut down the safe injection site in San Francisco, which was the actual progressive policy model, which said, don't just give them the crack pipes and make it so they can only use in this specific radius that's enclosed and watched by security so they don't leave on the streets. That was the. They don't want that. See what I'm saying? It's all deliberate. And the. These progressive liberals, not leftists who enact stuff like, oh, let's make a harm reduction center, yet they reject a safe injection site which would actually protect the kids from, you know, related problems that gets vetoed. So they fold the conservative pressure, too. I really think it's all one machine. I don't even think think that there's any major differences between political parties.

[Jack]

Yeah. Are you ever concerned that your style of interview misrepresents the group that you're after?

[Andrew Callahan]

Sometimes, but I. I really don't misrepresent people. Sometimes people just say dumb, and I put it out there, and then the comments say mean things about them. And then that group gets mad at me and they're like, dude, you're making us look bad. What the. You picked the craziest person in the crowd. I'm like, no, I didn't. I don't pick anyone crazy. It's just, you know, they pick you. Right? Exactly. But, no, I mean, I try my best, but I, like, I said I have inherent bias. I have inherent biases.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

I would think that like if you interview 10 people, just knowing the YouTube algorithm, one's a little nutty. Like that's the one that generally just from like the business perspective, you got to pick that one exactly. Because it makes it characters.

[Andrew Callahan]

I didn't start that.

[Graham Stephan]

What was the most, like, I would say, like, negative surprise.

[Andrew Callahan]

We went to an event called the Alpha Conversation in Salt Lake City where it was like this Alpha male meetup and then they decided we were too beta on the first day and just kicked us out. That was pretty whack.

[Jack]

Wait, so there's an Alpha male meetup?

[Andrew Callahan]

It's called Alpha Con.

[Jack]

Yeah, but that sounds like the least out. Like it seems like a true Alpha wouldn't even go to an Alpha.

[Andrew Callahan]

A true Alpha would never go to Alpha Con, but obviously it's a guy selling like a thousand dollar tickets. You know what I mean? It's like one of those male bonding.

[Graham Stephan]

Boot camps being an Alpha person. What do you think?

[Andrew Callahan]

What do you.

[Graham Stephan]

What do you think? Are some of your biggest insecurities?

[Andrew Callahan]

Just getting betrayed by my homeboys, you know what I mean? And just having people constantly near me, plotting against me and plotting all my downfall. It's a pretty.

[Graham Stephan]

Do you. Do you feel like that that's happening?

[Andrew Callahan]

It always happens. It always happens.

[Graham Stephan]

Why does that always happen?

[Andrew Callahan]

I don't know, man. It's called sidekick syndrome. It's. I deal with it every time.

[Jack]

What? I've never heard of this. I've never heard of this, Jack. The sidekicks.

[Graham Stephan]

I've never heard of this either.

[Andrew Callahan]

Sidekick syndrome is when. When you are the guy and people love you and you're receiving an outpouring of recognition and credibility and clout and fame, and the person closest to you, who you share your innermost thoughts with, develops resentment and jealousy and feels like they're more important than they are. Oftentimes they'll present an ultimatum to try to get you out of your position. They'll talk shit about you behind your back. They'll just create this like anti boss sort of like hater culture. They'll just, you know, look for ways to make fun of you and get over on you so that if you ever do fall for some reason, they know exactly what their exit strategy is.

[Graham Stephan]

Has this happened to you?

[Andrew Callahan]

It's happened to me four times.

[Jack]

It always happens four times.

[Graham Stephan]

I have a theory. This is my gut response. And tell me if you thought. I'm sure you've thought about this, but like, maybe because you are so open and non judgmental that you kind of don't really have some sort of like net or filter in terms of who can enter your life. Because like I love talking to everybody. I love, you know, learning from everybody and that kind of lets these people.

[Andrew Callahan]

Exactly.

[Graham Stephan]

Bottom of the barrel people.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, I just, I trust everybody. I see the best in people and I have a hard accepting that there are shitty people out there. You know what I mean? That's one thing I asked my mom. I was like, did you always know that people were so shitty and you just didn't tell me? And she was like, yeah, I was nurtured by my mom with a very positive outlook. You know, even when I, when someone's being shitty, I, I, I say to myself, oh, you're just acting out of character. Like deep down you're a good person. And part of growing up and why it's been so sad is, you know, I've just had to accept that there is evil that's real or there is at least people who place, place their own self interest so high above other people that they're willing to do horrible things. And yeah, it's just, I've seen it time and time again with my inner circle just turning on me all the time.

[Jack]

How do you pick your inner circle?

[Andrew Callahan]

I don't have one anymore. I just have employees and my mom and my girl.

[Jack]

How did you, in the past, how.

[Andrew Callahan]

Would that come up? Childhood bonds?

[Graham Stephan]

No way.

[Jack]

That's interesting. They, Childhood bonds for me are one of the things. It's, it just seems as though like nothing could break that.

[Andrew Callahan]

No. Fame. Fame and money will destroy everything.

[Jack]

What are the signs? Like where does it start?

[Andrew Callahan]

You don't know until shit hits the fan. You don't know who likes you and who hates you until no one likes you. Make sense?

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

You don't know until you've gone through a personal or career crisis. You have no idea who actually with you until public favor is against you or a public opinion pivots against you.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

Then you'll see, you'll be surprised. It's like you go broke, you lose something major and you lose your stability. The people who you thought were like your, your top, they're gone. And it's people you never even expected who actually have your best interest at heart. But there's no way to tell until things are going bad.

[Jack]

Was this because of the one instance like a year and a half ago?

[Andrew Callahan]

No, it's, that's one, the cancellation was one, but it's happened multiple times. It's happened with contractual disputes. It always happens. It could be about a number of things, but the, the. The everything falling apart and me having to rebuild by myself always happens. It's going to happen again. It's going to keep happening until my situation is perfect or until I'm, Until I make such good choices that these, these things can't happen.

[Jack]

How severe does something have to go down for people to turn on you? Could it be a small thing or, like, is there.

[Andrew Callahan]

It doesn't have to be like, you know, someone dying, but I mean, a contractual dispute, an intellectual property dispute, a public scandal, those are the kinds of things that make the house of cards fall.

[Jack]

Why do you think people are. Are so just, like, want to stay away from that or, like, turn their back? Like, what makes them and what.

[Andrew Callahan]

In which. In which of the three situations?

[Jack]

Situations in anything.

[Andrew Callahan]

Well, with the contractual dispute, they, they figure, I don't want to pay this guy. We can replace him with a scandal. They say people think this guy's a piece of. I don't want to be associated with him and with intellectual property. It's. I did more than that. I should own that.

[Graham Stephan]

So do you. Do you think there are still lasting effects from the quote unquote scandal that you were in?

[Andrew Callahan]

Of course there is.

[Graham Stephan]

For, for those that don't. I mean, we don't really have to explain it.

[Andrew Callahan]

It doesn't bother me.

[Graham Stephan]

Sure.

[Jack]

Like, yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

Give a little synopsis on there.

[Andrew Callahan]

I mean, I don't really want to go, like, too into it to the point where I'm explaining it, but pretty before the HBO film came out, there was this person who had been like, you know, trying to essentially cancel me online for two years straight, who I had. She has problems that we may. Had made up. I only hooked up with her one time when I was a kid. Everything was totally consensual and normal, but as time went on, she sort of started saying, hey. Looking back, I felt more pressure to agree than I realized at the time. You know, I was warped by your fame, all this shit, you know what I mean? And then eight minutes before the film comes out, she texts me and, you know, tries to bait me into sending her a large cash settlement for the. For my fat HBO check.

[Jack]

How much was the settlement?

[Andrew Callahan]

So it doesn't. So it's illegal to tell somebody, hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make allegations about you. I'm gonna tell people things about you that didn't happen. If you, Unless you pay me, however, what you can do is you can bait someone into giving you therapy money, money for your troubles. You can use that and then. And have a lawyer take it on. That lawyer can then take you to civil court and say, say, you need to settle or we're going to leak this information. So that's how you legally extort someone. You get, you. You take them at a time where they're most vulnerable. So maybe eight minutes before a movie comes out, before they go on stage for a big premiere or something like that, you say, hey, remember me? The person who tried to cancel you three times? I saw you have a movie on hbo. I need some money. Or not. I need some money. If you feel, if you feel like giving me money, here's my Venmo is what it said, right? So I already know what's going on. I knew, I knew, I knew the lawyer. I knew before that even happened that the lawyer was involved. I was like, fuck. Well, ordinarily I'm a good person, and I'm not against the idea of, like, paying restitution to someone you, like, actually hurt or something, you know what I mean? But with this situation, that was not what happened. And so I would say five to seven days after not paying, a press release was sent out to every, you know, single news outlet in the country, damn near Rolling Stone, NBC, cnn, npr, fox, with the formalized version of what this person was saying, which wasn't true. And, you know, that kind of spread like wildfire. Obviously got, you know, some more people piled on, and every person that I worked with at the time mostly just immediately jumped. Shit.

[Jack]

And what are some of the lasting.

[Andrew Callahan]

Effects of that in terms of industry shit? I mean, just me having to do things kind of start from. Start from scratch. I mean, the actual comeback itself, which was nine months after that cancellation, was, was. Was very difficult.

[Jack]

How did you mentally get through that?

[Andrew Callahan]

Keep working?

[Jack]

How do you find the motivation to work?

[Andrew Callahan]

I love this. I would die for the, the cause. I love reporting. This is what I live for. So, you know, and I had been during that period, so I'm like, all right, once your mind is already sort of accepted that, like, you know, I don't know how to explain it, that you might die or something. You're like, all right, well, what are the options? Am I going to die or am I going to keep living and doing this?

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

And that's just kind of what took over. And with the relentless, relentless pursuit of reporting and not letting myself get Kelly pilled and, you know, get upset about the, the deep state or the matrix and Just being like, you know what, I'm not going to read too much into this. Charge it to the game, move forward, got into a monogamous relationship, not meeting up with fans, hardworking.

[Graham Stephan]

Did that have any transformative, like, fundamental beliefs for you, or would you say it kind of just like, hey, look, just keep my head down, keep working and push through this.

[Andrew Callahan]

I mean, the, the, the part that me up was just the fact that I had been close with so many people who didn't even call me to ask, hey, dude, what's going on? I see you have a movie coming out and you're being, you know, blitzed by the press, not just on social media, but by actual news outlets. And that was like, that was pretty hard just to watch that happen. The part that me up, even more than that, though, was like the kind of rewriting of the past of, like, who I was, if that makes sense.

[Graham Stephan]

Like, so they went back to like, like old actions and like, oh, look.

[Andrew Callahan]

At this, for example. Like, I was actually in good standing at that time in every community that I was a part of and everywhere that I had had live. Seattle, wherever I lived, everybody. I had a good reputation. But then once that happened, people started rewriting like, oh, he's actually, like, known for this kind of thing. It was just. It's being absorbed because after the initial articles came out, everything was believed because it was like, oh, you know. But yeah, nothing came out until the articles came out except for that one thing. You know what I'm saying?

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

So the articles come out and the other things follow and people are like, oh, well, if multiple people are saying something about you, it has to be true. Like, as if multiple people can't lie.

[Jack]

I've noticed so many comments that someone could comment and make something up. That's complicated. Completely false.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

But for whatever reason, they. Oh, oh, what they'll do is they'll like their own comment a few times so it gets boosted to the top. And then everyone's like, oh, my gosh, I had no idea about that.

[Andrew Callahan]

Oh, wow.

[Graham Stephan]

If something has like 10 likes, that's like a ton of credibility.

[Jack]

But. But that's their credibility. And it's completely false. But people just say, oh, I. I know he. He does this.

[Andrew Callahan]

Whoa. I.

[Jack]

But they believe it as just a comment. And yeah, the more likes it gets, the more credibility it gets. But people don't realize that people just like top comments just to continue to like them.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

I mean, where people like their own comments.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

With like 20 accounts. And that's all it takes. It's definitely coming on video.

[Andrew Callahan]

It's definitely crazy looking back to think like, that I did get through that situation, you know, just because, like, I had been gaslit so bad into myself believing that there was something wrong with me. You know what I mean? Like, when you are, people are constantly like, you're receiving like a hundred death threats a day, thousands and thousands of messages of hate mail every single day for months and months and months. You just sort of, you look at yourself and you're like, oh, I'm a piece of shit. You know what I mean? Like, I, I'm just a worthless person, you know? And that's just kind of what happens. And to be able to, like, not to put the hater blockers on and just do what I'm actually good at doing and not waste time, like, clapping back at people was the hardest part because I'm literally seeing things about myself that have no basis in reality online, submitted anonymously, anonymously with no information or evidence. And it's being reported by actual newspaper publications, which if you were weak minded, you might think was a conspiracy against you. But I understand that that's the way that things go.

[Graham Stephan]

So when you were at the lowest possible point, what were the actual steps that you took to get yourself out?

[Andrew Callahan]

I mean, the first thing was sobriety therapy. 12 step meetings, joining like fellowships of people, mostly male fellowships, who had, you know, in one way or another, ruined their whole life. Whether it was a fault of their own or external, External factor, a mix of both. So there was that also just like really got into a relationship quickly. Tried to be like the best partner I could. I never had a, like, serious girlfriend before the hiatus. So it's just learning about what that lifestyle is like. Spending a lot of time with family, just trying to stay off the Internet, remembering the good times. And I don't know, I, I, I literally have no idea how I made it through. I mean, I'm not trying to sound.

[Jack]

Like probably it's a day at a time.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. Like I was just holding on for dear life. And then all of a sudden, one day, the seas just parted and I was back doing my thing. But I feel like I still haven't really taken a breath since I received that text message, you know? Cause that was just like the moment where I was like, here it is. The thing that everyone warned you about. It's happening. You either lose all your money or you lose your reputation. Because the settlement would have had an NDA.

[Jack]

How has that affected the relationship you have with Your current girl girlfriend.

[Andrew Callahan]

It's awesome because she got with me when I had nothing going on, so she definitely likes me.

[Jack]

How did you guys meet?

[Andrew Callahan]

We met at a 12 step meeting, but I'm saying she does.

[Jack]

Isn't that the place you're not supposed to meet people?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, but thankfully we're not in it anymore. Okay, but like, you know, she was able to get a real authentic relationship with her because it's like, all right, everybody hates me. Even her friends are like, why are you dating that guy? He's a piece of. You know what I mean? And so it's like, like, if you liked me, then I know that you got my back.

[Jack]

What was so special about her?

[Andrew Callahan]

I don't know. She's just awesome, dude. We're coming up on it, two year anniversary. We're about to go to Jamaica. Her name's Jamaica? She was just sick, man. You know, she helped me understand, like at first when it happened, despite the posturing and the apology of like, thank you, I'm a piece of shit. I was actually extremely. Getting red pilled, you know, I was getting red pill as fuck. You know what I mean? I was, I was like. I mean, as, as. As one would in that situation privately. You know, I'm walking around the house talking about the deep state, like I almost part of why the movie Dear Kelly was so cathartic to make. I'm running around the house being like, in this. I was. I was connecting the dots where they didn't even exist. I was like, you know what? I bet you Jonah Hill probably told TMZ to tell the girl, you know, like just crazy shit. And she was just like, help me slow down and actually look at the way that I was living. And she was like, how did you expect this not to happen? I was like, what do you mean? She's like, look at your life. You've been going out every night hooking up with randos since you were 21 and you're 25. She's like, you expected to just live this way and continue to rise and fame at this rate. And she told me, and I believe her, that I would have died from drugs, from partying, from an accident, from something, you know, I believe that.

[Jack]

Do you believe that everything happens for a reason?

[Andrew Callahan]

Sometimes. But I mean, I'm not the kind of guy who just tries to be all hyper positive and look for a silver lining and everything. Those kind, Those dudes kind of weird me out too. Me, you know? Okay.

[Jack]

I do. I. I try to look for a so Because I'm just thinking like, hey, a negative situation is as bad as it is. It is what it is.

[Andrew Callahan]

It is. Put it like this. If you're a fighter, you can make a positive out of a negative situation. But there is negative situations where I can't be like, damn, bro, I'm happy that happened, because look what happened.

[Jack]

No, you can never be happy something happened, but at least you could figure out, okay, this did happen. I can't change that. What could I learn from this? And how could I improve going forward?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Whereas there's got to be some takeaway. Whether it's like, I appreciate life more, I'm more grateful every day. I could bring up more positive. Like, there's something that you could take, I would like to think, from most situations.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, I mean, I would agree with that entirely. I mean, especially what Jamaica helped me do as far as the silver lining has helped me realize that, like, two things can be true. It is possible. I'm trying to think of better language. But to. To have to be fucking up and get fucked over at the same time. It is possible to be living irresponsibly and then come into contact with someone who doesn't care about your life, sees you as a bag, and takes advantage of that. Both of those things are problems. It's not just, I'm this perfect dude, and all of a sudden this evil person came around and did this to me. And it's not as simple as, like, I'm a. You know, I'm a piece of shit, and they were just getting what's theirs. There is a middle ground in a lot of situations, and that's. And that's an accountability you actually need to take with yourself. Not with the Internet, not with going online and being like, I've learned through this experience. No, that's something you have to really digest and own as you live your life. Is that if I was behaving in a responsible, adult manner and living like a normal person, that wouldn't have happened. I wouldn't have ever had a cancellation. If I was just living a normal person's life and not living on the fringe in a. In an RV and hanging. Hanging out with fans every single day, I probably wouldn't have ever had a situation like that. But I was. And so now I'm not.

[Graham Stephan]

What do you think is on a valid criticism of yourself?

[Andrew Callahan]

That I have extremely bad judgment of people. That I have extremely. Just. I. I'm good at making people open up, and people. People open up to me naturally. But I I didn't have a filter for people who just had all types of shit going on, man. I mean, I was. I don't think people understand how public facing I really was. I lived in an RV for three and a half years, and I switched cities almost every three days. And everywhere I would go, I'd post my location. I would meet up with a whole new group of strangers almost every single time. So I probably like. I mean, evidently if you live that way for a long period of time, there's going to be a significant trail of scorn that you leave because you can't do everything perfectly. You can't have a perfect interaction every time you live like that. You know, I think that I was partying too hard. I think I was just spending time with people who I barely knew. And, yeah, probably like reveling in the fame a little bit, you know, to, To. To. To seek out fame bands everywhere you go is nice to combat loneliness, but it's not a healthy way to live your life. So.

[Jack]

So what does it taught you about human nature?

[Andrew Callahan]

That most people are good, but money corrupts? Always.

[Jack]

At what level does money corrupt? Is there like a dollar amount where people kind of get a little nuts?

[Andrew Callahan]

I mean, I think that it just. I don't want to sound like I'm a crazy Marxist or something, but, like, where there's drastic inequality, whether that's inequality in attention through fame or just money and, like, bad things happen. Everything bad that I've seen happen is because someone is trying to either get money out of somebody or get someone else elected.

[Graham Stephan]

I'm curious, any of the friends that you lost during that really low point in your life, did. Did any of those relationships get repaired over time?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, they got repaired. But, you know, I'm not, to be honest with you, bro, I'm not interested in really repairing a lot of them. You know, if you wouldn't pick up the phone for me when I was doing. I don't want to hang out with you, you know, I mean, I. I can meet you and say, hey, man, how's it going? It's all good. But now we can't break bread like that. And that's not a spite thing. That's just. I'm a smart person. I'm like you. If somebody shows you how they are, you got to believe them.

[Jack]

Are you able to forgive those people?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And how do you do that?

[Andrew Callahan]

I just. Yeah, it's forgiven. It's fine. I'm not. I don't have. I don't hold any grudges. I'm just not trying to hang out with them. You know what I mean? I'm not. I don't wake. I want to wake up every day. Like, that didn't call me back.

[Jack]

It sounds like it's more so that people are doing that out of fear and self preservation.

[Andrew Callahan]

You. But if you could call me and just say, you know, I'm scared, I have to do this versus, I mean.

[Jack]

Like, it's an uncomfortable conversation to have with somebody that I think is easier for someone who's afraid not to do that. I get that would be the nice thing to do. What about media training, going through that? What do they teach you in that? And how do you approach situations differently because of that?

[Andrew Callahan]

They tried to teach me, like how to have non confrontational conversations and, you know, not mess up. And I actually looked at everything they told me and I did the opposite.

[Jack]

What do they te like, how, how do you have a non.

[Andrew Callahan]

They sent me one for this. I have a publicist that set this up. They sent me one for this.

[Graham Stephan]

What'd they say?

[Andrew Callahan]

Just like my work bridges human empathy across political lines and I'm very grateful to provide a platform to real humans.

[Graham Stephan]

It's like a way to get zero views on that.

[Andrew Callahan]

That's what they want next. What they want.

[Jack]

Is there a way to do it effectively though, in such a way where, you know, maybe you, you're asked a hardball question, you're able to like navigate it. Like I, I've noticed Trump is a great example where someone could ask him straight up a yes or no question. And my gosh, his responses are so good at not answering the question, but then finding, finding something else, like a.

[Graham Stephan]

Different question to answer.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Is that, is that media training or is that just like a technique?

[Andrew Callahan]

I mean, I'm capable of answering any question. That's why I'm excited to do more off the cuff podcasts like this. I'm, I'm able to answer even critical questions. I like critical questions. It's more fun for me than someone just doing like a glazing interview. It was just like, how is your, how is your journalism so dope? I want to go on some like, Steven Crowder type platforms. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, really, you guys are great too, because you guys push back as well in a healthy way. But most Hollywood platforms don't push back. So when they media train you, they're, they're like almost training you to do like a, you know, what's a tennis thing? Volleying training. You like, hey, I love the movie. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here with variety, you know what I mean? And just like, what inspires you? Real human stories.

[Jack]

How careful are you of what you say now? Just in general, I don't care.

[Andrew Callahan]

I mean, I'll just say how I feel, you know? And I, I, I know now that if I say how I feel, I'll never have those problems again because I have nothing to hide from a lot of people who cater their speech and they carefully craft words. They're running from things I didn't have anything to hide from then and I don't now. I'm not waiting for something to come out. I'm not sitting around being like, oh my God, I have to minimize this dude. No. You know, but yeah, so that's kind of my new model. I'm just gonna say however I feel interesting.

[Jack]

See, I, I admire that because I myself am very, very careful about what I say. And I purposely, like, there's a side of me that you'll see on camera, but then there's a side of me that, like, you know, I'm free to joke around and, you know, I'll swear every now and then, but when I'm on camera, you know, I, I like to be someone who's like, hey, you tune on with, with your kids and I'm not going to swear or say like, you know, dirty jokes or stuff like that.

[Andrew Callahan]

But yeah, I mean, you know, it's just, that's why I'm glad you guys asked about it, because I go on these platforms and they're scared to ask about the content controversy a couple years ago because they think like, oh, I want to, you know, I want to be in this guy's good graces. I don't want to make him uncomfortable, but it's like, I'm dying to talk about that kind of. Yeah. You know, and I understand why people don't want to, you know, harsh to mellow, but that's the reality.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah, I really appreciate the level of transparency that you have towards this. And I'm curious if you approach every public facing interview or podcast that you do with this level of just like no filters, talking completely as yourself and you have nothing to hide. Like, will that actually end up yielding better results in terms of like a business perspective or a views perspective or like a more cult like following perspective? Because that's kind of what seemed like Andrew Tate was doing when he was just like saying whatever he wanted to say. No holds, like, he never held Back anything. And a lot of people now, like, they still do these things and they just throw out some crumbs, but they don't actually like fully embody themselves on, on, on interviews. And I feel like you're absolutely doing that. It's fascinating. Yeah. And, and I'm just so curious, like, if you do something like this, like, what can now stop you because you're independently hosting your own things? Like, you're not beholden to some sort of like, you know, parent company or corporation or you know, like channel. It's, it's all up to.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, it's pretty tight. I mean, that's, that's the plan is just to start saying shit, you know. But I'm also not going to be a provocateur too. I'm not going to be like, oh, the views are pretty bad today. Let me go freak out on live stream about some shit, you know, I'm not, I don't want to monetize that situation. You know what I mean? Like, a lot of people would and be like, what really happened? Like, bro, that was horrible, dude. That was the worst experience of my entire life. I'm trying to move on. Yeah. You know, that doesn't mean I don't want to talk about it, but, you know, I, I need to figure out a way to get the truth about that situation out there without stirring back up. And I'm not sure how to do that because it's like the last thing I've said about it until now, you know, was like me, you know, basically like a deer in headlights apologizing. Just basically desperate for anyone to just give me an ounce of sympathy or understand, understanding. Because I was so eclipsed by all this and inundated by this stuff, it was almost hard to even explain what was happening, you know, because it felt so surreal. It's like you see one thing about yourself that you know isn't true, and they see two of them, three.

[Jack]

You can't correct them all. And you go, even if you do.

[Andrew Callahan]

What am I going to look like? You know, now that there's one, two TikToks and two anonymous things and what am I going to do? Am I going to break these all down and give them more exposure and publicity?

[Jack]

The problem with that is if you correct one more come out, because then you could correct those and you give them attention and then more people have an incentive to say, oh, well, he responded to all these. Let me say something to. Maybe he responds to me. It's a little, just, yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

And you Know, part of me does blame myself in a lot of ways, though, for the kinds of people that I surrounded myself with leading up to that situation. You know, I thought that you had to be an actual piece of shit to get canceled. I didn't realize you could be someone like me and that could still happen to you. I didn't realize it just took someone having enough scorn and enough of a financial incentive to say something to you. I didn't know that was that simple. So, you know, if I was to look at some of the people that I was surrounding with, surrounded with some of the live streamers, some of the producers, they all have a trajectory in it. They all have a track record rather of dropping people in a heartbeat when, like that happens.

[Graham Stephan]

So you kind of alluded to like, you. You want to wait a little bit to then talk about it more, to then excoriate, like all of these people who have.

[Andrew Callahan]

I have evidence in receipts for every single thing that I'm talking about. You know what I mean? It's just a matter of. I'm doing very well right now.

[Graham Stephan]

Right.

[Andrew Callahan]

Views are coming in. Performance is good. My mom's happy. It was a very hard year for her as well. Obviously, all the people around me, it was a lot of emotional labor for them to support me as well. Why would I go to war with all these people at the same time? You know, I know that that's what the fans want. They want me to show all these, these back and forths, but like, at, at what cost and at what risk? Like, just to get more people aware about that situation.

[Jack]

My unsolicited advice is just keep doing what you're doing and, and make great content, you know, but it's just crazy.

[Andrew Callahan]

To like see people out there, like, pretending you never existed who like lied to get. Get you out the picture. It's all.

[Graham Stephan]

Do you read comments now?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, I read every comment.

[Jack]

Are you gonna read comments on this video?

[Andrew Callahan]

Probably. Probably. Probably. They're probably respond to them, I hope. I feel like we're having a good conversation. So I think it's going to be overall positive. You guys made me feel like it's chill to speak freely.

[Jack]

Oh yeah, 100%. And our audience, I would say 90, 97 is positive. Maybe you have. You always have the 3%, though. And it really is. Is usually on the guest or something that I say that's out of touch. Yeah, it's one or it's dumb.

[Andrew Callahan]

One of those people think you're dumb. I don't think you're Dumb, bro.

[Jack]

Thanks. By the way, Jack, you might need this magic mind.

[Graham Stephan]

I honestly really do.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

Yesterday I drove all the way from Mammoth Lakes to Los Angeles and it was like a seven and a half hour car drive. Yeah.

[Jack]

Now, for those who are unfamiliar with this, by the way, they sent us these to try out and I'm absolutely obsessed with them. They're magic mind shots. And basically what they do is they help you focus, they boost mental productivity, and every single podcast, by the way, I have one of these before filming. They taste delicious. They help just improve, I would say, just my cognitive functions. Like, I find myself just being able to focus a little bit better. Just be a little bit more attentive. What do you think, Jack?

[Graham Stephan]

I think so, too. I'm off very little sleep, so that obviously is going to help throughout the show. Graham loves also one thing he does everywhere. He takes them everywhere because they're small enough where you can take them through tsa. So we'll go on our trips and it's just a little bit of a caffeine boost. Gives you a little bit more mental acuity and clarity. Helps a ton.

[Jack]

Yeah. Honestly, that was. It was a mistake actually bringing it through tsa. I completely forgot that I had like three in my backpack. They got through and I was so glad that I had them at the place because I couldn't get a coffee in the morning, so I just down one of those. Worked amazing. If you guys are interested, they do have a discount link down below in the description. They've helped sponsor this podcast. They make all the traveling we do completely worth it. It's awesome. Thank you so much, Magic Mind, for being a part of this. Really appreciate it. But yeah, if you guys are interested, the link is down below.

[Graham Stephan]

Thanks.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jack]

So I'm curious, when it comes to the documentary Dear Kelly, how much did that cost?

[Andrew Callahan]

I'm going to go ahead and say $300,000.

[Jack]

300 grand.

[Andrew Callahan]

Whoa.

[Graham Stephan]

Is that a lot or a little?

[Jack]

I mean, when I hear $300,000 for a YouTube, I. I think a lot, so. But I. I get. It was four years of work.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

[Andrew Callahan]

Editing. Probably $100,000 in total, because, you know, it was 350 hours of footage. So we had me. We had two different editors. We had to digitize, like all this VHS footage from the Johnson family.

[Jack]

Yeah, true.

[Andrew Callahan]

That took a while. And then actual promotion, we probably put like maybe 50k into promotion.

[Jack]

What is the promotion?

[Andrew Callahan]

Wheat pasting. We had a billboard outside of Vegas right by Sloan in between Prim and Sloan on the left side of the freeway, right when you hit that bend.

[Graham Stephan]

On the way to Vegas. Yeah, I'll see that today.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, it's by Gene. It says dear Kelly film.com screaming now on the left side.

[Jack]

Is that effective? I feel like you just do it on Instagram.

[Andrew Callahan]

It's not effective, but it's just fun, you know? And it's sick marketing. We have a commercial coming out where we're like, taking pictures in front of the Dear Kelly film sign.

[Jack]

But who's paying for it? Like, you're paying for it.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, I'm paying for it.

[Graham Stephan]

How much does a billboard cost again?

[Andrew Callahan]

It's really cheap, dude. It's like 900 bucks a week.

[Jack]

900 a week for a. Do you want to get a billboard?

[Andrew Callahan]

I want to be in the middle of the Mojave here.

[Jack]

You want to waste money? Is it on the 15 freeway?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, dude.

[Jack]

For $900 a week?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

That's actually. I mean, that's pretty lucrative billboard business.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

What, are they booked out in advance?

[Andrew Callahan]

No, dude, nobody wants to promote. It's. To be fair, it's very far from Las Vegas. It's probably like a 15 minute drive. It's like when you make that right. Where the Starbucks is at, how you get to Good Springs past the prison. Right. It's right there, so.

[Jack]

By the prison.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Okay.

[Andrew Callahan]

It's. It's not very. It's also not facing the side of the freeway that you're driving on. So it's the cheapest billboard spot there is. But either way. And then did you look, by the.

[Jack]

Way, into how much some of the other billboards are?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, they're more expensive.

[Jack]

How much are they?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, they're probably like three grand a week.

[Jack]

Three grand a week?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. But if you're. I mean, the closer you get to the Vegas trip, like, I see the.

[Jack]

Ones for all the buffets or the.

[Andrew Callahan]

The. That must. I mean, that must tell you something.

[Jack]

Yeah, but usually they have like five. Five in a row. That's like buffet here, MGM, $32 lobster, and it's like five of them in a row.

[Andrew Callahan]

I mean, if South Point can afford five billboards, you. You probably could. Do you know what I mean?

[Jack]

That's gambling. That's really.

[Andrew Callahan]

Y. That is true.

[Jack]

That's. That's the thing.

[Andrew Callahan]

But back to the budget of the movie. And then I had to pay like 200,000 fighting this lawsuit in court against Bill Joyner. So in total.

[Jack]

Wait, wait, wait, what's this?

[Andrew Callahan]

If at the very End of the movie. You'll see. There's a defamation lawsuit that I'm fighting right now. I can't talk too much about it. I might talk about it in the future, but right now, either way I'm upst or downstream. I don't know what you call it in money terminology, but you're in the red. I'm in the red. I was in the red, but I'm getting into the to the green now.

[Graham Stephan]

Because of the sales.

[Andrew Callahan]

So dear Kelly made a hundred thousand opening weekend.

[Jack]

Where, where was it streaming?

[Andrew Callahan]

Just film.com independently stream. Now it's up. We're up to like 35,000 independent rentals. Whoa. So like it's going up. So like I'm about 50k away from paying back the leave the leg the, the project itself.

[Jack]

But now the defamation lawsuit.

[Andrew Callahan]

So Kelly's arch nemesis is Bill.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

Bill is a lender in Orange County.

[Jack]

Correct.

[Andrew Callahan]

Bill thought that the whole movie was a hit piece about him and his lending practices. I'm pretty sure he thought that I was espousing Kelly J. Patriot's beliefs.

[Jack]

Okay.

[Andrew Callahan]

So he sued in advance of the movie releasing with the expectation that it's going to be about him, I think.

[Jack]

Okay.

[Andrew Callahan]

The lawsuit includes various claims that aren't real, such as a violation of the federal wiretap act. Never did that stalking emot distress, stuff like that.

[Jack]

Okay, where are you in that lawsuit? Because defamation is one of those things hard to prove, expensive to fight.

[Andrew Callahan]

So we just filed an anti s slap motion because it's a federal court case. It's in federal court. So we're still waiting on the judge but she dismissed oral argument. So like I guess that either to me if they dismiss oral argument, that means like she's kind of made up her mind. She's 91. I think the judges but her clerks are a bit younger. So I'm hoping that they have the media wherewithal to figure out that this is not in fact 91 year old judge. I think she's actually in her 80s, not 91. She's older but she sided with Netflix once in a, in an anti s slap motion. So I have good high hopes.

[Jack]

Yeah, I'm just so bitter when it comes to, you know, that whole system like I said, because I know how expensive it could be.

[Andrew Callahan]

I think civil court should almost be abolished. That's. I'm sure there's a. Some kind of like reason for it but most of the time, dude, it's like what is money going to do?

[Graham Stephan]

A lot of the proceeds don't even usually go to the victims.

[Jack]

Lawyers are the ones who are making the vast majority of the money.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[Graham Stephan]

I've heard also a lot of the times it's too complicated to actually give it out, especially if there's multiple victims, that they all collectively agree to give it to some sort of f. Like charity or some sort of like, other thing.

[Andrew Callahan]

Isn't that crazy? Like, we're just talking about all these recurring themes like civil court shakedowns, contractual disputes, friends abandoning you. Like, that's what people don't see about success. You gotta. You gotta have a strong heart.

[Graham Stephan]

Appreciate the transparency with everything. And honestly, such an honor to have you on the show. I mean, I've watched a lot of your videos, especially over the years. So it's not like a recent thing. It's plenty of years back. And it's. It's so cool to meet you.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

For me, Chet hanks. Great video. 55th Street. That was one of my favorite. Where do you keep in touch with.

[Andrew Callahan]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I talk to Crip Mack all the time.

[Jack]

Really?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, he's locked up. He'll be out next year.

[Jack]

What do you get locked up for?

[Andrew Callahan]

Probation violations. Typical revolt. Revolving door. Firearm possession. Okay, but chat's free. He's actually at Gold's Gym pretty close by. I just seen him on Instagram. Really? He's been getting swole.

[Graham Stephan]

Good for him.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. Respect. General.

[Jack]

That is so cool. My gosh. Well, thank you so much, man, for making it over. Really appreciate it.

[Andrew Callahan]

Appreciate it.

[Jack]

Until next time.

[Graham Stephan]

And whoa, whoa, guys. If you want to check out Dear Kelly, it'll be linked down below in.

[Andrew Callahan]

The description www.DearKellyFilm.com I recommend it.

[Graham Stephan]

I watched it. I got pulled away from my housemates. They wanted me for something and I just couldn't wait to go back and continue watching it.

[Jack]

It was true story. I actually really enjoyed it.

[Graham Stephan]

Great film.

[Andrew Callahan]

The Mojave Desert is. Is talking about it, right? It's the hottest thing in the Mojave.

[Jack]

And make sure, by the way, subscribe if you're not already subscribed. Our analytics show that only 50% of you are subscribed. So that means half of you are.

[Andrew Callahan]

Who's not subscribed. That's the weakest shit.

[Jack]

It's free. It's totally free to do and it really helps out our channel.

[Graham Stephan]

Okay, guys, thank you very much.

[Jack]

And hit the like button. Button.

[Andrew Callahan]

You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast?

[Jack]

Easy.

[Graham Stephan]

Just use indeed.

[Jack]

Stop struggling to get your job posts.

[Andrew Callahan]

Seen on other job sites with Indeed sponsored Jobs.

[Graham Stephan]

Your post jumps to the top of.

[Andrew Callahan]

The page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people you want faster. According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted.

[Graham Stephan]

Directly on indeed have 45% more applications.

[Andrew Callahan]

Than non sponsored jobs. Don't wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with.

[Graham Stephan]

Indeed and listeners of this show will.

[Andrew Callahan]

Get a $75 sponsored job credit.

[Graham Stephan]

To get your jobs more visibility at.

[Jack]

Indeed.Com podkatz12 just go to indeed.com podkatz1212.

[Andrew Callahan]

Right now and support our show by.

[Jack]

Saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast.

[Andrew Callahan]

Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.