An Unfiltered Conversation with BBNo$ | Being Broke, Cashing Out, & Getting Screwed

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Iced Coffee Hour – An Unfiltered Conversation with BBNo$ | Being Broke, Cashing Out, & Getting Screwed

Release Date: November 24, 2024

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Introduction

In this candid episode of "The Iced Coffee Hour," hosts Graham Stephan and Jack Selby engage in an unfiltered conversation with renowned artist BBNo$ (Baby No Money). The discussion delves deep into BBNo$'s unique relationship with money, his navigation through the complexities of the music industry, unexpected international success, and personal insights into maintaining authenticity amidst fame.

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BBNo$’s Unique Financial Philosophy

BBNo$ opens up about his unconventional approach to finances, highlighting a paradox where despite significant streaming success, he retains a minimalistic personal spending habit.

• Minimal Spending: "I am the purest form, cheapest human being ever." [00:26]

• Selective Investments: He contrasts his reluctance to spend on personal luxuries with strategic investments in his music career, such as allocating $40,000 for music videos rather than personal use. "I couldn't turn around and be like, here's $40,000 for a music video." [00:26]

• Psychological Barriers: BBNo$ discusses his inherent reluctance to spend money, attributing it to his upbringing and financial education. "I still fought Econ. Like, I just can't spend money." [01:30]

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Navigating the Music Industry’s Financial Landscape

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around the intricacies of earning through music streaming, royalties, and synchronization deals.

• Streaming Revenue: BBNo$ breaks down how streaming royalties work, emphasizing that "monthly listeners" can be misleading metrics. "Monthly listeners is someone who comes back and listens to a song twice within a month." [08:45]

• Royalties and Sync Deals: He shares anecdotes about unexpected income from synchronization deals, such as his song being used in a Garfield trailer, resulting in substantial royalties. "Garfield took one of my songs and used it as their trailer. Boom, $300,000." [00:44][16:59]

• Ownership and Labels: BBNo$ maintains his independence, owning a significant portion of his masters to retain control over his earnings. "I'm still independent, so I own all of my masters." [29:56]

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The Challenges and Rewards of Touring

BBNo$ elaborates on the financial and emotional aspects of touring, highlighting both the costs involved and the intangible rewards of connecting with fans.

• Financial Strain: He candidly admits that extensive tours can result in financial losses. "It's aiming to do this like 30 tour in Europe and it will net me negative $127,000." [00:59][19:33]

• Fan Experience: Despite the financial drawbacks, BBNo$ emphasizes the importance of providing memorable experiences for his fans. "You give your fans an experience and their fans forever." [00:59][19:33]

• Burnout: The demanding nature of touring takes a toll on his mental and physical well-being. "Burnout is so real. Being a touring act, I think, like, just not having regularity in your schedule really is." [74:44][75:32]

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Marketing Strategies and Achieving Virality

BBNo$ delves into his strategic approach to marketing, leveraging platforms like TikTok and synchronization with media to propel his music to viral status.

• Synchronization with Media: The use of his music in trailers and TV shows provides unexpected revenue streams. "I can turn around and be like, here's $40,000 for a music video." [00:26][16:08]

• Social Media Influence: BBNo$ credits platforms like TikTok for substantial boosts in his music's popularity. "The TikTok is really what blew up." [61:06][63:11]

• Investment in Marketing: Reflecting on past decisions, he acknowledges the missed opportunities by not investing adequately in marketing his album. "I didn't spend a single penny on marketing that album." [57:44]

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International Success and the Chinese Market

An unexpected highlight of BBNo$'s career is his surge in popularity within China, facilitated by foreign exchange students and strategic use of local platforms.

• Breakthrough in China: BBNo$ recounts how a friendship with fans in China led to sold-out shows and significant financial gains. "We sold out six capacities, all like 900 plus." [66:05][67:11]

• Cultural Impact: His music resonated deeply, resulting in fans getting tattoos and fostering a dedicated fanbase. "People had tattoos of me out there." [66:05]

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Songwriting Process and Artistic Integrity

BBNo$ shares his introspective approach to songwriting, striving for authenticity and bettering his craft over time.

• Evolution of Songwriting: He reflects on improving the quality of his songs through experience and understanding what resonates with listeners. "Five years ago, every song I made was like a seven out of ten, now every song I make is at least an 8 out of 10." [39:21]

• Authenticity vs. AI: While recognizing the rise of AI in music production, BBNo$ emphasizes the irreplaceable value of human imperfections. "There's so many imperfections in my music that AI won't make, so it makes it less real." [40:27]

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Collaborations and Future Aspirations

Discussing potential collaborations, BBNo$ expresses admiration for industry legends and contemporary artists alike.

• Dream Collaborations: He names Pharrell Williams, Timbaland, and Missy Elliott as dream collaborators. "I've always said, like, Pharrell Williams or Timbaland. Missy Elliot." [84:11]

• Contemporary Influences: Current artists like Levi are highlighted for their unique musical and visual storytelling. "There's something that her music has is just... exceptionally beautiful." [84:21]

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Financial Management and Investment Strategies

BBNo$ candidly discusses his personal financial habits, prioritizing saving over spending and expressing a need to optimize his investments further.

• Saving Principles: He maintains a stringent saving rate, often reserving up to 90% of his earnings. "I have a saving principle of, like, at least minimally 70%... I don't spend any of my fucking money." [84:21]

• Investment Choices: BBNo$ invests primarily in high-risk assets like cryptocurrency, while keeping the majority locked in high-interest savings accounts. "During the crypto pump in like 2021, I ended up doing pretty decent. And then I poured it all into bitcoin." [85:27]

• Advice on Financial Planning: Hosts encourage seeking professional financial advice to better manage and grow his wealth. "You might want to look into a financial advisor." [86:37]

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Personal Life and Relationships

BBNo$ opens up about the challenges of maintaining personal relationships amidst the pressures of a burgeoning music career.

• Dating Difficulties: Balancing the demands of touring with seeking meaningful relationships proves challenging. "Maintaining a relationship. I am a serial monogamous..." [76:33]

• Emotional Well-being: He acknowledges neglecting his emotional health in pursuit of his career and is actively working on improving it. "I kind of like, don't mind it." [75:32]

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Conclusion

The episode shines a light on BBNo$'s multifaceted journey in the music industry. From his frugal lifestyle and strategic financial maneuvers to the emotional highs and lows of fame, BBNo$ offers listeners a transparent glimpse into the life of a modern independent artist. His emphasis on authenticity, combined with a relentless pursuit of musical excellence, underscores the complex balance between personal integrity and commercial success.

Notable Quotes:

• "I am the purest form, cheapest human being ever." – BBNo$ [00:26]
• "Monthly listeners is someone who comes back and listens to a song twice within a month." – BBNo$ [08:45]
• "You give your fans an experience and their fans forever." – BBNo$ [00:59]
• "Burnout is so real. Being a touring act, I think, like, just not having regularity in your schedule really is." – BBNo$ [74:44]

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Key Takeaways:

• Financial Prudence: Despite having lucrative revenue streams, BBNo$ maintains a disciplined approach to personal spending.
• Music Industry Insights: Understanding the nuances of streaming royalties and sync deals is crucial for independent artists.
• Touring Challenges: Balancing the financial costs of touring with the intangible benefits of fan connection is a delicate act.
• Marketing Savvy: Leveraging media synchronization and social platforms like TikTok can significantly boost an artist's visibility.
• Personal Growth: Navigating fame requires conscious efforts to maintain emotional well-being and meaningful relationships.

For aspiring musicians and industry enthusiasts, BBNo$'s experiences provide valuable lessons on sustainability, authenticity, and strategic growth within the ever-evolving landscape of the music business.

Transcript

[Baby No Money]

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[Graham]

You said, I am the one who has no money.

[Baby No Money]

Well, it's baby no money.

[Graham]

Tell us, how do you have no money?

[Baby No Money]

I am the purest form, cheapest human being ever. I can. I couldn't turn around and be like, here's $40,000 for a music video. Let's go blow it. Go make art. I don't think I spent $40,000 on myself in the past four years.

[Jack]

So what do the finances look like today? Like getting 10 million streams on Spotify.

[Baby No Money]

The revenue that was making from streaming royalties and online plays. What Soap? Garfield took one of my songs and used it as their trailer. And I was like, out in Japan. Like, I checked my phone, I was like, boom, $300,000. Just like that. What? Just like that?

[Jack]

Are you kidding me?

[Baby No Money]

Garfield? I'm aiming to do this like 30 tour in Europe and it will net me negative $127,000.

[Graham]

So why do it?

[Baby No Money]

You give your fans an experience and their fans forever.

[Graham]

You DM us and you said, I am the one who has no money.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah. Well, it's baby no money.

[Graham]

Right?

[Baby No Money]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Right.

[Graham]

So you're the baby that has no money.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah.

[Graham]

Tell us, how do you have no money?

[Baby No Money]

So basically I grew up in a family that my dad's an immigrant parent. And the financial concept of what we grew up in and like, the complex is like, you put a house over your head and you feed your family. That's it. Money is there to, like, be a protective measure. And I think it just really distilled into me. I don't know. I remember in high school, I, when all my friends would go out, they'd be like, hey, we're going to bring some money and like, go like party and then eat at McDonald's. I would bring nuts because I knew that they were high in fats so I wouldn't have to have as bad of a hangover. I wouldn't drink Chase because it was too expensive. Like, I am the purest form, cheapest human being ever. Like, I bought, I bought like a $200 pair of jeans. And all my friends are like, dude, what the is wrong with you? And I'm like, I don't know. I still fought Econ. Like, I just can't spend money. I Have, like, a weird psychological, like, affix or suffix I don't even know of. Like, just the inability to spend money.

[Jack]

I'm the exact same way. I know it doesn't exactly. It doesn't seem like that, but everything I buy is designed around making money. Everything. So if I can't make money from it or get it at a good enough deal, like, I was talking to Jack about, there's a car. I don't really want the car, but I'm like, hey, if I get this car at this price, I can't say no to it. Then I have to do it because it's worth so much more, and I'm not going to lose money. I see every purchase like that, everything.

[Baby No Money]

I don't know what it is. I don't know if. You know, sometimes I'm like, I should just fly first class because it's literally going to kill my body. And time is the most valuable asset, so, you know, you got to weigh out the options. But it's like, sometimes I just don't know why I have this block. And I see my brother, for instance, and he lives in Copenhagen. And every. I feel like perspective, like a living perspective in Europe is like, you work to live, whereas in America, you live to work. And he's all. He's always pressed me on it. He's like, dude, go buy me beers. You. You got to go buy me beers. And I'm like, dude, I don't know. I feel weird doing that. Like. Like, if I'm like, if I'm not getting something out of it, like, it should be 50, 50 or something like that. You know what I mean? I don't know what it is. I. I've been, like, talking to my therapist about this, too, and it's. It's been, like, an interesting dynamic that I've had to find with, like, every single person that I, like, work with. Like, you know, I hired a. Basically a bunch of my friends because why not just hire your friends and be closer with people that you love? And it's, like, weird, because then you had, like, this power dynamic with financials. And then it's like, I'm just like. I usually just call my friends. I'm like, all right, how much money do you want? Just tell me and I'll just give it to you. I don't really care. And it. But it's. It's weird because when it comes to a financial perspective, with. With my job, I can turn around and be like, here's $40,000 for a music video. Let's go blow it. Like, go make art. And then $40,000. I don't think I spend $40,000 on myself in the past four years. Like, I just. I don't know what it is.

[Graham]

Is there anything that you've started to splurge on? Because I think it's pretty safe to say that you have money now. I mean, with 10 million Spotify monthly listeners, I don't know what you're doing on Apple or YouTube or all of that stuff. You have to have money now. Is there anything that you're finally allowing yourself to splurge on?

[Baby No Money]

Nice food. That's it.

[Graham]

It's like, what is nice food to you?

[Baby No Money]

Oh, like, I'll go for, like, triple Michelin. Double Michelin.

[Graham]

Oh, that's actually. Grant's not there yet.

[Baby No Money]

Really nice food. Wow. There's something the. That, you know, like, sharing, like, really, really nice sushi with people when, you know all the experience is the exact same flavor profiling in your mouth all at once. There's something to it. I don't know what it is. And it's like sitting down with, like, 80 of your friends and being like, all right, we just spent, like, 500, $600 a person.

[Jack]

Holy crap.

[Baby No Money]

And we're just, like, looking at, like, this small little cracker on a plate, and you get, like, 30 or 40 different plates, and you're just like, I.

[Jack]

Get zero enjoyment from that.

[Graham]

Really, very low. He gets anxious about the price. He can't enjoy himself if he knows he's spending a lot of money.

[Jack]

Yeah, exactly.

[Baby No Money]

See, I get that. I definitely get that. But food, I don't know. It. It broke through. I. I don't know. Maybe I've done too many hallucinations.

[Jack]

We gotta. We gotta take you down a notch and show you.

[Graham]

We gotta go back to sushi here in Vegas.

[Jack]

$30, you could eat sushi. Or there's a poke spot that's really, really, really good for, like, $17. That, to me, is, like, better than the really expensive meals that I've eaten.

[Baby No Money]

It's not like, don't get me wrong, if there's like a $1 taco, call me crazy. Like, it's probably going to be better than, like, a $50, $60 burger or someplace or somewhere else. You know what I mean? Like, I totally think that there. There's that. But I don't know, for some weird reason, like, just going out with a bunch of friends and really splurging on some, like, a meal is like, I earned this. And that's the feeling I get at least. But I will totally appreciate. Like, I still love McDonald's. Like, you know, when you go to McDonald's, you get a McGang Bang. I don't know if you.

[Graham]

Yes. Do McG Bang Chicken and McDouble. Yeah. Put them together.

[Baby No Money]

So bussing.

[Graham]

Yeah.

[Baby No Money]

And like, I grew up on that. So it's like when I go back and I'm like, oh, you know what, guys? Let's feel terrible for the rest of the day. And you put them in gang bang together and you're just like, wow, this is disgusting. We should go get one.

[Jack]

I'd be down. But you were mentioning too, that was surprising that, like, technically you're kind of homeless. Like, you don't have a place anymore.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, I'm like, I'm like a nomad. It kind of sucks. I don't know. I don't really have, like, another perspective. Like, basically I live with my parents in Vancouver. If I were to be home one, it's because whenever I was home. Anyway, I owned this apartment downtown Vancouver, and I was just like, I could. I could stay here or I could just be with my parents for like, four days, the only time that I'm in Vancouver. So I just decided to sell it because I was like, there's no point of owning this, and sold it actually made. I made $25,000 on it after. After years after. Like, this is after everything, like, paying for a new roof, like, all, like, the fees and everything. So I ended up making some money on it, which was sick. Okay. I was like, dude, before, you know, before I was 30, I already sold the apartment. That's great, you know, great accomplishment. So basically I live with my parents and I rent kind of in la, but I don't really, like, stay anywhere. It kind of sucks. I don't really know else to say other than it's just uncomfortable sometimes because I'm like, I would love to have. The longest I've ever stayed in a place in the past four years was like two months. So I don't really have any, like, regularity or, like, a schedule for.

[Graham]

So it's like hotels all the time.

[Baby No Money]

Hotels, Airbnbs, like other people's couches. Just like, just living. It's. It's weird. But it's also like, everyone's always like, how do you only travel with, like, a carry on? I'm like, well, I don't. I spend a lot of time in airports. I don't want to spend an hour, like, waiting for a bag and or potentially being way longer than an hour. So it's like, you know, time is money, right? So.

[Jack]

So what do the finances look like today? Like, getting 10 million streams on Spotify. Like, could you break us down? Like, we know nothing about this sort of industry.

[Graham]

We can also guess. Okay, guess, like, how much? 10 million monthly listers. So your Spotify check only. I'm gonna say. What do you think, Graham? I'm gonna say per month with 10 million monthly listeners, 175,000 bucks a month.

[Jack]

No, dude, I'm gonna guess like $500 a month from Spotify.

[Baby No Money]

What?

[Jack]

Okay, so 10 million streams.

[Baby No Money]

There's so many very.

[Graham]

10 million monthly listeners.

[Baby No Money]

So. Monthly listeners. It's interesting because it's a very deceiving statistic or analytic because it actually doesn't matter. Like, it literally doesn't mean anything, right? Because it's like, for instance, the Weeknd biggest artist in the world off streaming, revenue off this, off that. You know, he's the most streamed artist. This. The. So a monthly listener is someone who comes back and listens to a song twice within a month. So basically, I have no idea. So basically what that means is you can have a lot of monthly listeners, but not a bunch of daily streams. Whereas, like this collective or these. These two dudes called boys, they have about, I think, 14, 15 million monthly listeners, but they have, like 10 million streams a day. I have 10 million monthly listeners and about 1.8 to 2 million streams a day. So it really only matters with the amount of actual consumption rather than the. The fan listening more than. So the. Their fans are listening like, five times, six times, whereas my fans are listening, like, once.

[Graham]

And how can you figure out that statistic? Or is that only, like, in the dashboard?

[Baby No Money]

It's in the dashboard. Okay, so, so basically, like, every million streams is about 3, $3,800. So if I was streaming about 40, I think I stream about 48 to 49 million streams a month on average. So it's like about 50. So. So 100. It would be about 150,000. But I don't. I don't own all the royalties. Some songs that are doing really well. For instance, one of my songs, one of my biggest songs ever at La La La, I sold that song when it was, like, taking off. And I only own 25% of it from a label. Also labels, there's so many smoke and screens. Like, there's so many extra hidden fees. Like, it's for sure. Like, every distribution is like, there's. They're scraping and Every single company will do this. Typically, I would say on an average song, I end up having about on average like 60% from my whole catalog of the royalties on the master side. So I would be making about like $2700 out of these, $3800 per million. So I make about like 5 to 6k kind of flat a day, approximately.

[Jack]

Now all of this reminds me that the future of business is really uncertain because if you ask nine different experts, you're going to get 10 different answers. From a bull market to bear market. Stocks go up, they go down. It's really confusing and it would be very helpful to have a crystal ball.

[Graham]

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[Jack]

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[Baby No Money]

I make about like 5 to 6k kind of flat a day, approximately.

[Jack]

All right, you're closer. I'm way off.

[Graham]

$500 a month. That is an abysmal guy.

[Baby No Money]

That is.

[Graham]

That is 500.

[Baby No Money]

I was like, damn, that's you're way off.

[Graham]

He has a little bit of money. Yeah, clearly.

[Jack]

I had it in my notes here. A million streams is 33.

[Baby No Money]

That's crazy. Well, a streams a million YouTube on like, on like streaming of the song is way, way lower. The CPM on YouTube is like kaput. It's garbage. Interesting. And it really also depends on where it's being streamed. So for instance, like India, a Spotify subscription is.

[Graham]

Oh true.

[Baby No Money]

It's like cheap. 30 cents in India. So every stream from India would be way less worth. Whereas like in america it's like $15 a month or some. I Don't know. I don't. I don't even listen to music, really. I don't. I don't. I don't even have a Spotify account. Sorry.

[Graham]

Are you kidding me?

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, I don't. I, like, legit, have yet to use it.

[Graham]

How do you listen to music?

[Baby No Money]

I don't really listen to music. What?

[Graham]

What do you listen to?

[Baby No Money]

I actually don't really listen to music. Just.

[Graham]

What about like a podcast or, like.

[Baby No Money]

I just kind of like chilling because my life is always music. It's always thinking about, like, whenever I listen to songs I like, it's kind of like finance. It's like when someone talks about finance, it's like, that's on your mind. And when. When I hear songs, I'm like, why is this song big? I need to, like, analyze the song. Whereas, like, I can't even listen to it anymore. Obviously. Some songs I'll. Come on. I'm like, whoa, this is really good. This is super catchy. I like this. This, like, the synthetic sound here is really nice. Like, it's so well mixed, but I don't really, like, consume it as I used to. And I think that's just like a product of mine.

[Graham]

It's like a job kind of when you're listening to music.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, but I mean, it's also. It. It also distills feeling for sure, but it's definitely less than it used to. Where was I? So going back to the money thing. So on YouTube, a million typically equates to about $700. So let's say you do a million on every single platform, you're going to be looking at like, what's a million on, like, all the other ancillaries, probably another like $2,000. So you have like 3,800, 2,800. And then if you do a million on all of these streaming platforms, so like, let's say you have like 5 million total streams. On the publishing side, this is where it gets really complicated. Publishing has mechanical royalties and mechanical royalties. What that is is, like, it's a royalty that. I'm also not the most educated on this. Like, people literally have their whole lives collecting mechanical royalties for, like, publishing companies. It's ridiculous. But basically it's like on these streaming platforms, they have these performance royalties that go out to all these publishing companies of songwriters. So if there is three people in the room and we write this song, it's kind of. It's called Nashville. Basically what it is is you split it three ways so we compose the song together. So 33, 33. And I will just typically take 34, because it's just easier to split it up that way, obviously. So that 800 would be split. 33, 33, 33. And that's just the mechanical. And then you have, like, sync royalties. You have, like, if someone uses it in the movie, you have, like, extra royalties coming in. There is, like, so many unspoken nuances and, like, small, little revenue generators in music that is, like, blow your mind.

[Jack]

It just depends on where it's played. Played in a TV show pays this. Paid in a movie, it pays this. And they all have different splits.

[Baby No Money]

So Garfield took one of my songs and used it as their trailer. And I was like, out in Japan, like, sitting in a. In a beautiful forest. I was like, man, I love Japan. And I checked my phone. I was like, boom, $300,000. Just like, what?

[Jack]

Kidding me.

[Baby No Money]

And I was like, ah, Garfield, I. With you.

[Graham]

Did they. Did you know that was.

[Baby No Money]

No, no, no, no. So it just, like. It's just like, basically they reach out and they're like, we want to pay for this. But the thing is, I own 21% of that song on both sides, so 21% of 300,000 is. What is that? Like, 67,000. So $67,000. But I didn't do really anything. I just made the song, and luckily, the song became a hit. But you see how, like, all these extra streams and revenue just keep on coming in. Too hot to handle. Has used my songs all the time, and, like, Love is Blind use my songs, and then they. They pay royalties. They pay out, like, a licensing fee. So you get, like, $5,000 just like that, randomly. Boom.

[Graham]

And you have agents that just negotiate this completely detached from you. You don't even know they're doing that. And just randomly on a day, you'll.

[Baby No Money]

It's just like, typically Mondays and Tuesdays, I'm like, come on, come on, come on, come on. Look at the. And then I'll just get an email or like, a text from. From, like, my publisher, like, A and R guy. And he's like, hey, we got a big one. And I'm like, movie. Let's go for dinner, boys. And that's kind of it. It's sick. And that's just like, one con. That's like one small little avenue. And it's interesting and really, really cool, too, because people make careers just out of that, where they're like, I'm a sync writer, so I will make songs. There will be, like, a syn pitch and be like, hey, we have like an action movie with Dwayne the Rock Johnson. And we need bing bang boom, boom type music. So people will be like a composer will be like, all right, let's try it. So it goes in the studio and makes like a song that sounds like what they want and then you might get it and you might not. And they'll do a buy, full buyout of like $100,000. And like people have full lives like that. And it's like such a small little factor of what music is. And it's like you can compose this, compose that for ads and it, it's, it's actually really cool. Once you like see how the, the backside of the music industry is, it's like really, really enjoyable. There's so many, so many avenues that you can create.

[Jack]

So why does it seem like a lot of musicians say it's a horrible industry to be in and it seems like just like the top 0.1% is reaping like almost all the revenue.

[Baby No Money]

Well, I mean, okay, so on a touring perspective, it's a nightmare. So the triple A artists, they clean up like that's, you know, like Beyonce's out here doing like $100 million in a touring revenue. Like Olivia Rodrigo was that highest grossing artists of our decade of more than Taylor Swift. Well, a new artist, like a new generation artist. It was $190 million on her last tour. And basically I was just telling you about this Subtronics guy. Basically, like if you don't get to 5,000 capacity shows, which I'm going to be honest, I've been grinding my ass off for the eight, eight, nine years. It's hard. Like you need a ton of hits, like a string of hits, or like crazy controversy, like crazy this, crazy that. And you just gotta be on the ball 24, 7 and like really cultivate that fan base. If you don't do that and you tour at like a 2,000 to 3,000 capacity, like tour, and you want to bring production and try to make it a cool experience for your fans, you are always in the red. I'm aiming to do this like 33 stop tour in Europe and it will net me negative $127,000.

[Graham]

So why do it?

[Baby No Money]

Because you give your fans an experience and their fans forever and that's it. And like, the only reason why I'm able to do this anyway is because of them. It's really just a pat in the back. And like sometimes I'm like volunteering. It's exhausting.

[Graham]

And you're like Volunteering.

[Baby No Money]

Volunteering. And I've done it. I've done it for so long. Like, I. This just this year, like, I'm selling, I'm on track. I just listed a tour recently, like, like a week ago, and we sold out Toronto. Probably the fastest I've ever sold out a show ever. And I felt like I was like, whoa, this is. Things are on the up. This is great. And I'm on track to make, like, probably 40,000, $50,000 on a tour that's going to gross like a million. But there's just so many expenses. So it's just like a really, really interesting dynamic when you. When you see the back end, you're like, yeah.

[Jack]

My understanding is that they'll pay you, like, a big amount for one night, but then it's up to you to then pay out, like, lighting and security and, like, you know, all the miscellaneous stuff with that.

[Baby No Money]

So there's something called a guarantee. Typically, that's like how most people take it. You can do, like, $1 deals at the door where it's like, you basically rent the venue and you just take all the risk. Whereas a guarantee is like, I guarantee you $25,000 in your pocket, and then you. You budget the tour off of that so you can have, like, a bus, so it's a little healthier for you. You can go to bed and then you bring lighting, lasers. You try to make an experience or as cool as an experience as possible. My main goal is to try to make, like, a musical out of my music for the next tour. So my fans are just going to be holy. He really tried because the bar is really low in rap music, to be real. But I don't know. Like, sometimes I get frustrated because I'm like, I don't really want to tour and not make any money anymore. Like, I've been doing it for, like, years, basically. So I'm just, yeah, kind of tired of that. But at the same time, it's also like, who the fuck gets these experiences? And it's like, it really is as cliche and corny as it may sound. When I'm on stage and I see that many people just smiling and, like, giggling, I'm like, wow, that's a. That's crazy. Like, I can actually distill happiness in people, and I have the ability to. I always wanted to be a doctor. I went to school for kinesiology before I did music, and I just wanted to help people and the ability that I have to reach people and, like, actually emotionally touch them in A way where my music is. I can say pee pee poo poo on stage and people are like, yeah. And, you know, I think they just get me in a deeper level and they just want to be there to have fun and, you know, have an experience and kind of like, forget what is now for them and be in the moment, dude, is a blessing. So if I have the ability to do that, lose some money at the same time, but, like, harness and be able to, like, nurture my fan base, like, that's. That's the main goal here.

[Graham]

So I think that's super, super nice of you and also, like, aware of you to be able to take the hit, to be able to provide for the people that provide for you.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, totally.

[Graham]

And on top of that, I just got to say, like, I wasn't expecting you to be so upfront about all the numbers and everything. And to be honest, like, as YouTubers, we're very familiar with, like, how much YouTubers make or how much streamers make or that whole sphere.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah.

[Graham]

But we have no idea how much, like, musicians make because it's not talked about. And so I appreciate your transparency when it comes to, like, musicians, numbers because a lot of people, I'm sure, like, basically all the viewers right now have no idea, are completely surprised. You get a check just for, you know, from Garfield like that on a random Monday morning.

[Baby No Money]

Well, that. I mean, like, yeah, that. So Edamame was one of my songs.

[Jack]

I like that.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, that's not Balls Hanging Low.

[Graham]

Yeah, really good.

[Baby No Money]

So that song was like the number three or fourth biggest sync song, like, in 2022, 2023. So that means basically I was like, waking up every other week with, like a sync. It wasn't as syncing, so a synchronization. So basically you. You. It's like Garfield is like, oh, we need a trailer. Audio. Boom, sync Edamame, Bing, bing. And he's just like, driving or something. I don't know if it's like, if it makes sense. He'll sync the sound team on their. On Garfield or Pixar or wherever it is. We'll be like, this is the budget we have, and hit up Sony atv, like Sony, my publishing company, and be like, we want this song in this trailer. That's it. So I would just wake up some days with people using my music. Or like, one time we got a sync with a CarMax for one of my songs called Bad to the Bone. And it was like a llama just like, head out the window just looking at the camera. And it was like, yeah, Bad to the bone, basically. And they just use that portion of the song. And I was like, all right, cool. And Carmax paid me, and Taco Bell's paid me. Like, Mountain Dews paid me. It's, like, kind of sick. Yeah, it's really dope.

[Jack]

Do you ever find it intimidating that, like, you have to keep topping yourself, like, you have a good song, and now it's like, what's okay? How can I make something better than what I just made?

[Baby No Money]

So I was really struggling with that. In the beginning of COVID I had La La La. And that song was stratospheric. Obviously did not expect that song to get that big, you know, that was like, right in the beginning of TikTok and it. It's almost at a billion streams now. And just one of those experiences where I was like, oh, this really happened. Like, I remember I was sitting in my bedroom. I just, like, started crying. I was like, dude, my phone is blowing the up right now. Like, this is crazy. Like, this is real. And my mom, like, walks in with some apples, and it's like, you good? I'm like, yeah, I'm good. This is right after I graduated university. Like, I crossed. I crossed the stage, went to the hotel. My sister was like, yo, why are you not coming to lunch with us? Like, you just graduated, like, celebrate with the family. And I was like, no, I got to drop the song. It's going to change my life. And then, like, two days later, it exploded.

[Jack]

How did. How did you know that song is going to be so big is a feeling.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah. I don't know. I played it live for a couple of times, and, like, people could recite the hook, like, immediately. It just banged. Like, everything. Like, the mix sounded perfect. I don't know. I remember also, I hooked up with a girl the same night I made it, and I showed it to her. I was like, yo, I made this hit. It's a hit. Like, I made a hit. Like, I did it. And she's like, it's cool. And I was like, whatever. And then she called me, like, after it blew up, she was like, you told me this song was a hit. How did you know? I was like, I don't know. Like, I. I actually have no idea. I just told everyone and I just spoke into existence and it just happened.

[Graham]

How much do you think that song grossed? Just in everything? Because I imagine, like you said, every other week you were getting sinks. And on top of that, the billion downloads that it's done, do you get.

[Jack]

A plaque or anything for a billion.

[Baby No Money]

I think Spotify will actually send me a billion plaque because I think there's only like. I think there's only like 1200 songs in a billion or something. Like, I don't know, maybe not even that many. So, so Edamame was the one that singed. Weirdly, Lalala was way bigger of a song, like, culturally than Edamame was, but it didn't sink at all. It's because I feel like this, this, the Edamame, the song is so driving. And it's like when you want to buy something, you just want to be, like, sucked in. And Edamame, I feel, has that punchiness, like really like upbeat, fun, happiness. Whereas, like, Lalala, just like more of like a weird meshed pop song that no one really has heard before. So. La la la. I don't know how much that song is fully made, to be honest. So when you sign into a record label, you never really know how much they spend on it. I'm honestly, like, I think I'm going to audit Columbia because.

[Jack]

Walk us through that. Like, when you sign a record deal because you hear so many people saying they got ripped off by their record company. Even Limp Bizkit, I think, is suing whoever their, their publisher or record company was because they said, like, they made no money from certain songs or, like, from certain albums.

[Baby No Money]

I'm still independent, so I, I, I, I own all of my masters. So basically whenever I'm like wife and kids checking out, I'm gonna be like, all right, guys, I'm out. I'll sell my whole catalog for millions of dollars. Ideally, I'm like a Bruce Springsteen in a couple years. You know, the vibes. He just sold his catalog for like 250 million.

[Jack]

Everyone's doing Beaver Sold his.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah. It's ridiculous. It's up.

[Graham]

It's hundreds of millions.

[Baby No Money]

Hundreds of millions. It's, it's insanity.

[Jack]

Did Jackson sell this?

[Graham]

I think Jackson. I think the Beatles bought Michael Jackson or. No, Michael Jackson bought the Beatles. Yes. I think that's one, like Rage, one bought the other.

[Jack]

And they were really upset about that deal.

[Graham]

Yeah. I don't know. We're going to put a list of some people that have sold their catalog. The numbers are ridiculous.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, it's ridiculous, but I mean, it's, it's evergreen. I think the consumption just keeps on going up. I mean, obviously, like the OG OG OG OG Hits, like, will always be hits, you know, that would be cool.

[Jack]

To be able to buy a song like that. That would Be the ultimate flex.

[Baby No Money]

I'll be like, I'll say, you guys.

[Jack]

I own that song.

[Baby No Money]

Sure. I mean I have a bunch of songs that don't make any money because they're just. But my musical career started basically from just like gamers using my music on YouTube. So I never clicked the content ID, like copyright thing because I was like, I want people to use my music. Like I want people. I want to encourage people to use my music. And that was like kind of like a, like a grounding point for the basis of building my career. And yeah, I still to this day, I just went to TwitchCon recently and had a really good time there and I met so many people that I've never fully met before that have used my music in their intros or outros of their gaming videos and be like, I love you. And I'm like, I love you, man.

[Jack]

It's so appreciated because I'll tell from my perspective that there have been times where I've used a little clip of just like 10 seconds, like a little background clip. They claim the whole video.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, it's.

[Jack]

So I have to go back through and like edit that out and it kind of ruins it a little bit.

[Baby No Money]

No, it's all.

[Jack]

Or videos where I've included like a reaction to something in context and they claim the whole video.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, well, so I don't own all of my music. La la la. I still have a five year license with Columbia. A lot of my music with my friend Young Gravy is all on Republic. So I don't really have full jurisdiction over what happens there. And I can't really get those claimed because I ended up selling the rights to those songs. But at the same time, like all the music that I have on my Spotify that is not capitalized, so it's like all lowercase. That is my music.

[Jack]

So how does a record deal work?

[Baby No Money]

The misconception is record labels are bad. I don't think they're bad. They just can't work that doesn't have a flame. There's it. It's like, it's like if you have a financial advisor and he's like, hey, so we're gonna need some money to like make some money. And he's like. And the people are like, nah, go make me money with no money. How does that work? It doesn't work. So if you're working an artist that just isn't working and you just up and signed the wrong guy because you thought he could have been the next pop star, then you're gonna get dropped and then the, the artist is probably gonna get super pressed because we're like, I signed this deal and nobody's helped me out. Like, fuck, brother. I don't know why I brought the UK accent out there, but you see what I mean. They're basically just a bank. But when a song is ripping and they just want to roll their keyboard down with $600,000 to market a song, I'm all hands off. I don't care. Because when Lalala blew up really hard, it was doing like 4.8 million streams a day. So that was making like $20,000 a day. Just default. I don't know what the. They did. I. When I sold it to them, it was doing a million streams a day. But I don't know what they did. They spent $650,000. I don't. We don't literally just says marketing expense, $650,000. And I'm like, whatever. It helped my career so much that like I will take the deficit of making money there for a very long time because I can make money in other avenues. So I used to view music as. Which made me way more anti label. I used to view my music as the only revenue generating principle because in university I was releasing songs, I was like making $4 a day, $8 a day, $16 a day. And I was like, oh, this is like where I'm going to make all my money. So the revenue that was making from streaming royalties and online like plays was the only money that I was making and that was basically the only money I made for a very long time. Because as I was saying, touring, you don't really make money until like the past year and a half I've been profiting on touring. Not nearly as much as some other people may, but it's kind of like leveling out to 50, 50. Now. So basically now I use the. I use my music as an avenue and a tool and a marketing tool to get people to my shows and to get people to care more about my business. Basically the issue I had with record labels is I was so afraid of giving up 85 to 90% of all the royalties that I was making in the offshoot chance that they know actually what to do and how to market your songs. But because the music industry is becoming so democratic, because social media and labels are basically being like.

[Graham]

Feet held to the fire a little bit.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah. And like labels are like cleaning up their whole roster, like just firing, like firing everyone because they don't have the power anymore. It's not monopolized. Like, you can't, you can't tell the world that this new song coming out on TikTok is going to be the next big hit. It just doesn't work. Like, you need people. The people make the decision and the people make all of the right decisions when it comes to the songs. And like when you hear songs and it's like a small little snippet and the rest of the song sucks or the rest of the song rocks, it's cool because it's like, that's what the people want. That's what the people want. And it's not. Yeah, it's not monopolized anymore. And it's, it's actually, it is beautiful. But it also makes it really fucking annoying for an independent artist because you're like, okay, do I want to try to market the song or do I just want to put it out and see if anything happens and wait and if it doesn't, move on to the next one? I don't know.

[Graham]

That's interesting. I wonder then how many artists are trying to curate their music to be just that song that's used for like a 10 second clip. I heard you mention in another podcast the song Million Dollar Baby and how that song, I mean, you couldn't go like 3reels on Instagram without hearing it. And that probably completely changed this guy's life. Insane. Like monthly listeners, like my favorite artist, Rex Orange county never. And he's been making music for such a long time, he's Fire has not hit that amount of monthly listeners. And this guy did it with, I mean, I don't want to say one song, but effectively, to my knowledge, it was like one song.

[Baby No Money]

So. So yeah, that's, that's the thing is monthly listeners is very deceiving because it doesn't actually mean anything. You can have, you can have the biggest song in the world, like cranking, like doing like 15 million streams a day. And nobody will come to your show because nobody cares. They just want the song. They don't care about the artist. So that is like, that's, that's where like the turning point is, like getting the subconscious of, of society to be like, oh, I fuck with that person. And it's like, how do you develop a story and how do you develop a personality that people can attach to that draws them and draws them in enough to come to the show or like buy the merch or do all the other business perspectives that are not just songs? But I do totally think that home slice is really talented. So he's going to be here for a really long time and I'm happy to have heard his song. I like it a lot.

[Jack]

Although really quick, before we go into that, you might have noticed that the Iced Coffee Hour has grown a ton over the last year. We've surpassed a million subscribers, we've had big guests on like Jordan Peterson, Michael Saylor and Ben Shapiro, and we're even about to surpass a billion views. The point is, a lot has changed over the last year, and if you're running an e commerce business, you could probably relate.

[Graham]

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[Graham]

I heard there was a clip that I saw, it was like a DJ that was talking about it and he said that there's essentially a lever that can be pulled if you pay enough money. A lever that can be pulled to make a song go viral. But I'm guessing you would say that's not true. It's not true no matter how much money you throw at it.

[Baby No Money]

Like, okay, I mean, if I was a trillionaire, okay, and my, like, let's say I was a trillionaire. I had a, I had a son. He was like, I want to be a rapper dad. And I was like, I got you then. Yeah, like, I'll throw a billion dollars at a fucking song. It's gonna go apeshit. You know what I mean? I'll just pay every single, literally every single YouTuber to use it and it's gonna go up or even if you.

[Graham]

Pay the producers, like, an obscene amount of money. Like the best producers.

[Baby No Money]

Nah, producer, that. That makes no difference.

[Graham]

Really?

[Baby No Money]

Yeah. Because you can make a song. I could. We can make a song right now that could be the biggest song in the world.

[Graham]

We should do it at the end.

[Baby No Money]

Oh, I mean, maybe I. I just, like. It won't be the biggest song in the world because I'm not that great, fundamentally. Like, I'm. I'm fine. I just kind of figured out a loophole. I just figured out what people kind of like and what I'm good at, and I just double down on it constantly. And I'm just like, all right, I know exactly the type of music that I would listen to if I were to make it again. And I'll just double down. And I'll double down. I'll double down.

[Jack]

What I found really interesting is that a lot of the biggest artists don't even write their own songs. Like, they're written by, like, a Benny Blanco or, like. Like someone like that, where they could, you know, maybe collaborate or just buy a song. What was the guy, The Ibiza guy?

[Graham]

Mike Posner.

[Jack]

Mike Posner. He was talking about making a song for Bieber, and, like, that was his song. And he shows himself playing it.

[Graham]

Oh, it was Love Yourself. I think it was Love yourself. He made a song, and then Justin, I think, plucked it.

[Baby No Money]

The.

[Jack]

The super, super sad if I was your boyfriend.

[Graham]

Oh, was it that?

[Jack]

Yeah, it was that song.

[Baby No Money]

Okay, that makes sense. Yes. So songwriting is also another avenue to become successful. I've been hit up to write songs for people, for sure. I just, like, don't care because I don't like doing things on spec, which is like, hey, if you do this, you might get this. And I'm like, I would rather just make a song for myself. Who cares? Like, yes. I'm not the best songwriter in the world. I've met some songwriters and some artists that I'm like, what the fuck am I doing here? You know what I mean? Like, where you're like, you. I try pretty hard to make music, for sure. You know, I'm, like, racking my brain, and I've seen, like, Doja Cat make a song or just jokingly make a song. And I'm like, dude, this is more fire than my whole catalog. And she just, like, sits there and it's, like, sick. So it's like, there are some people that are just objectively, like, super, super talented and are hitmakers.

[Jack]

Is that something that could be learned, or do you think you're born with the ability to be able to hear songs.

[Baby No Money]

No, it's definitely a muscle. Okay. I mean, I would say five years ago, every song I made was like a seven out of ten, six out of ten, let's say modestly or whatever. Now every song I make is at least an 8 out of 10. And that's because of just, like, what I know. And it's like your taste keeps on evolving, whether or not, like, the song will explode. I think your taste keeps on evolving and you just get better. Because I can take every single aspect of a song of, like, one of my big songs. I can take an aspect of it and be like, what made this song popular? Oh, this part. And it wasn't because it blew up on TikTok. It's just like the feeling it gives you during that moment when you listen to it. Just grab it, put it on this song, another song that did well, grab that, put on the same song and just basically have a full set of songs or full set of a song of all the good parts of a song, all the good flows, all the good melodies, just put all back on one song. It'll do well.

[Jack]

Do you ever worry that AI is able to do that at some point in the future and, like, create the.

[Baby No Money]

Best song and it kind of frightens me a little bit, but at the same time, like, there's so many imperfections in my music that AI won't make, so it makes it less real. I also do think, I wholeheartedly believe that, like, people will use AI for every other reason other than art. And people will get bored of it. People will get bored if it is just straight up AI art. And there won't be like a revolt, like, we need no more AI art. But people will just be like, I'm not that down for this. And I think that's just going to be like, the general conscious of the society people of people being like, you know what? I think I'm done with that. We don't need this. Let's just, like, actually support a real artist.

[Jack]

What if they couldn't tell? Because I see the movie industry, like, at one point being like, hey, we.

[Graham]

Want to be industry. Maybe unless there was.

[Baby No Money]

You can tell the movie industry right now is like getting hit by chat GBD scripts. It's pretty bad. Sometimes I watch movies. I yo, I walked out of the Joker movie.

[Graham]

I heard it was, like, miserable.

[Baby No Money]

It was abysmal.

[Graham]

Yeah.

[Baby No Money]

And like, look, art direction great, don't get me wrong, acting incredible. But, like, for two And a half hours. Nothing happened. And it was just awkward. I was like, I think they just went to the home slice. Went way too avant garde on it and was like, we need to do something even more different. And it just went way left field and it did not resonate, I don't think. I don't know.

[Graham]

I see a lot of that, like, with musicians. I feel like a musician, they make a few albums, like when they're starting out, then they make two albums that just blow up, and then they're like, I'm really artsy. I'm gonna try to come up with something that's, like, super unique and different, and then it's hard for me to actually enjoy that. Like, I've seen that. I feel bad saying these names with, like, Kendrick Lamar, like, Good kid. Mad City was incredible.

[Baby No Money]

Oh, one of the greatest albums ever.

[Graham]

Even I hate saying, because I love. In fact, I met him randomly outside of the restaurant that I used to work at. Tyler, the creator. Oh, he's great.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Baby No Money]

He's dropping a new album. He what? He's dropping. Oh, I know. Yeah.

[Graham]

Chroma Copia, which actually sounds really good.

[Baby No Money]

It looks, but, like, really Wolf is.

[Graham]

Like, I think a masterpiece. It's like a 10 out of 10 album. But I feel like after those blew up, they're like, I need to go a little bit more unique and different and, you know, get all artsy and poetic, which is great. Like, I support trying new things, but it always seems, like a little bit much.

[Baby No Money]

Do you see that? I mean, I kind of have it with my music. I mean, like, everyone's always, I want the old baby, no money. I want the oldest old Kanye. All this. But you're developing new fans every single time. And, you know, I just put a. I literally went from like a drum and bass record, a drum and bass adjacent house record with like a top line bass that sounds like everything from the UK to a Heartbreak song, which was Fire. Yeah. And it's good. It's a good song. Like, I like. I really like it. It's. It's really, like, raw and powerful and emotional, but it's like, it doesn't fucking matter. If you can make a song and you can make any type of song a decent song, then do it. Like, I totally agree, though. Like, sometimes as people, like, go way too heady with it. Okay, for instance, so the Heartbreak Song, there's. There's a lot of aspects in that song that I would say I would basically do in a normal rap song. Anyway. It's like Some of the cadences are just, like, really upbeat rapping. I get insecure when I am not. When I leave space on a song that is something that I just. A lot of producer friends that I work with, they're like, stop rapping so much. The song will do better. And I'm like, nah, it just makes me insecure. But it also sucks because I. I kind of set myself up for disaster when I'm performing live because it. Breath control is really difficult when I'm like, rippity rapping, like, on stage for an hour and a half, and I'm saying, like, poems and poems and poems and lyrics and bars. So that's. That's something that I, like, struggle with, is like leaving space in a song or like, trying to be more artistic in that regard. But something I will do across all my music is just fill the song out with lyrics because I know I like it and I know my fans like me. And if my fans like me, they'll like my songs. And that's. That's it. I'm just putting my personality into my songs and they can resonate with it rather than just trying to do something completely left field every time, which is cool. It's really. It's experimental, but I just don't think it does anything for me because I know I don't like doing that.

[Graham]

I like it when the. Each album is, like, adjacent together. It's not the same. Like, you're trying new things and you're experimenting, but it's not completely detached from, like, the style that cultivated you, that audience.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, totally. I've been working on figuring out new voices. Like, a lot of my songs are pretty, like, monotone. It's like ballsing in the paw, pal of it. And I keep in that tone a lot because I'm probably just insecure about my other voices. But you know, like how Kendrick Lamar on yeah, yeah.

[Graham]

How he goes, like, high pitches, like, hi, brother.

[Baby No Money]

What's good, brother?

[Graham]

Yeah, he does that. Yeah, he does a lot of this stuff.

[Baby No Money]

And that's the reason, if you look at all the really successful rappers, they all have different voices. Yeet, Eminem. Like, Drake. Drake's fucking dude. Drake pulls out a UK accent sometimes and then, like, a Jamaican accent, bro. It's, like, interesting. Kendrick does a lot, and Kendrick does a ton, and it's. It. Actually, I didn't realize this until recently, but it really makes a difference having different voices.

[Graham]

Do you have any checks and balances or people that, you know, that have their fingers, like, really on the Pulse, where you show them your music and they're not just like, oh, yeah, dude, that's fire. That's going to go bang. Or do you see any artists that, that you think have just consistently over time, just nailed it every single time? Because I imagine if you're like making music and you're passionate about it and you're like, really loving it, like, people are just going to be like, oh, yeah, that's fire.

[Baby No Money]

Unfortunately, sometimes I wish I had some more yes Men, because sometimes I like n. That sucks, man. I'm like, so I'm. I'm good. I'm set on that. Do I think I make the best music in the world? No. Do I think Strike of Genius Sometimes I'm like, this song rocks. Yeah. God bless. When I made it, boy, I remember I ordered an Uber and we, we made this other song and we were working. We. They just started the beat and I was like, yo, this beat's Fire As. And he was like, yo, lay something on it before you get on the Uber. And the Uber was waiting. And I, you know, when I texted Uber, he's like, hey, I'm here. Then I just literally went up to the microphone. The first thing I said was, I T, B O Y B B N O dollar sign. Yeah, that's me. Yeah, that's right. And they were, they just both turned, were like, yo, that's fire. And then they're like, hey, what's the next lyric? And I'm like, I don't know. Gen Z, M. And they're like, that is so stupid. And I'm like, hell yeah, let's run it. I'm not even Gen Z. And then we ran it. And then I sent all my friends the song and one of my, like, best buddies, my dj, I sent it to him. He's like, this is the best hook you've ever written. I promise you this on Blow Up. All right? And then I just like. I buckled my feet down, finished the song, and we just. Yeah, it did well, so. And it's easily the most turnt up song I've. I have live. This song is. I play like a. An orchestral introduction to it.

[Graham]

Oh, that's cool.

[Baby No Money]

And then I'm like, the only reason why you guys are here is to tell your parents that you're a goddamn legend. Like, get your dicks up. And like, I just like scream into the microphone and yell at them. And yeah, they just lose their mind. It's just everyone's. Literally everyone's jumping. Yeah, it's really cool. So When. When you make a song like that, you can feel it and it actually invokes a feeling of like, hey, I want to move. Or like, hey, this makes me feel sad. That feeling is infectious. I don't know if only musicians can like see it for the first time, but you know, when you hear a song, you're like, damn, this is fire. I promise you. Other people feel the exact same way. And that's probably why a song will be big. Just infectious. I don't really know how to explain.

[Jack]

I like Rick Rubin a lot and I listen to his energies. It's incredible. He has no musical training whatsoever, doesn't know music theory, nothing. He just has an ear and he's like, if I like it, I have a feeling other people like it too. And that's it.

[Baby No Money]

There really is it. It's like. And it's kind of like people are like, oh, what type of food you like? And I'm like, good food. It's the same thing. It's the same concept. It's because maybe you don't like good food as I like good food per se, but I'm not going to say no to a 17 poke poke bowl where I know it's going to be good as.

[Jack]

Yeah. For me with food, by the way, a good analogy is like, you know how your smell influences the taste of the food?

[Baby No Money]

Yeah.

[Jack]

For me it's money. How much does it cost? Yeah, that influences the taste of the food. The cheaper it is, the better it tastes.

[Baby No Money]

The cheaper it is. The cheaper it is no matter what. Or the more it's going to taste good. The more free it is. Yeah, the better it is free. Oh, I love free.

[Graham]

What kind of free stuff do you get as a musician?

[Baby No Money]

Kind of like if I re okay, you know. Rx bars.

[Graham]

I love Rx bars, dude.

[Baby No Money]

So good. So I have DMS with them of me sending voice notes. Be like, hey guys, I'm like a huge fan. Please get back to me. I really want some product and I'll promote you guys. And I promote them and I like literally tell my fans. I'm like, please spam them. I really love an RX bar. Like they cold turkey me. But basically I've gotten. I think the coolest thing that I've gotten for free was a Steam deck. It's like, it's. Oh, it's like a game. It's a game Boy basically from. From the company like Valve and Steam. And I've been playing that all the time on planes and stuff. It's super, super Nice.

[Jack]

We got Jack in the Box for free.

[Baby No Money]

Really?

[Jack]

Yeah. Jack in the Box commented on a video because Jack, Jack's name is like, oh, it's a Jack in the Box.

[Graham]

Well, I would talk about it. So we used to have a vlog channel. I would talk about Jack in the Box all the time. I love Jack in the Box. I think it's underrated.

[Baby No Money]

What's good there?

[Graham]

First of all, everything. Second of all, the tacos are amazing.

[Baby No Money]

Really.

[Graham]

So growing up, like, I would definitely. So I had like very little money personally growing up. And so I would go to Jack in the box, they had two tacos for 99 cents.

[Baby No Money]

I would.

[Graham]

And I ran. So I build up an appetite. I would go spend $4, get eight tacos, feel awful afterwards, but also just love eating them. They're amazing. The meat is questionable. You don't know where it comes from. They definitely fry the entire taco. It's not healthy, but it is like, it's, it's love. Yeah. They sent us, they sent me 500 debit card to Jack in the Box. Yeah. And it's like, it's called VIP Jack Cash. I go through the drive through, like hand it over them and they're like, I have never seen anything like this ever before. That is, it's been three years and I still have money on it.

[Baby No Money]

Really?

[Graham]

Yeah.

[Baby No Money]

I mean, fair enough.

[Jack]

That's cool.

[Graham]

Shout out Jack in the Box.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, shout out Jack in the Box.

[Graham]

So you got the Steam deck for free. Is there anything else that like huge brands are just like, here, just take it. Like audio equipment, I would imagine.

[Baby No Money]

No, no. Audio equipment is like it, it stays and lasts forever. So like no one, they're not going to give you anything unless I was like aaa, you know what I mean? I might, I don't want to jinx it, but I might be getting a Chipotle black card. No.

[Jack]

Oh, okay. I gotta show you what I just sent Jack. Holy.

[Baby No Money]

I, I don't want to jinx it. I, I, I, I, I, I, like I maybe even cut it out. You should literally just bleep, bleep.

[Graham]

I want this in there because if in the offhand chance, like we talk Chipotle probably every other episode.

[Baby No Money]

Oh my God, that's it.

[Jack]

It's not, it's not the black card anymore. It's the wood card.

[Baby No Money]

That's fire.

[Graham]

We talk about Chipotle nearly every other episode. We shout them out. I spend 16 there basically every single day. Chipotle, if you're watching this, I love.

[Baby No Money]

You, Chipotle's always fire.

[Graham]

All three of us will always talk about you. Trust me. You know, I hope that people listen to this and go buy Chipotle. I recommend it. It's healthy.

[Baby No Money]

So good.

[Graham]

Send us your cards.

[Jack]

Good price.

[Graham]

Yeah, it's a great, It's a great price.

[Baby No Money]

It's a great value. It's a great value. Spend for sure.

[Graham]

Walk me through, like a day in the life of a musician. Just, I know your every day is going to be way different, but let's just talk like an average day. How often are you in the studio per month?

[Baby No Money]

Okay, so I usually do studio work, like making music in a very sporadic. It's. It's like two or three months. I'll just be like, fuck it. Like, let's make a ton of music. And then I kind of just choose all that, all the good music that I've made. Let's say I make 100 songs and I'll take like seven and I'll be like, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna market these seven songs. I really like these seven songs. I'm gonna shoot music videos, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, and just hope for the best with these joints. I used to, in the past, like, do tons and tons of music making because that's all, that's all I had. Like, I was just making music constantly, but now it's like more formulaic. It's kind of like very like structured because if I have a tour coming up, I have to like prep music because I want, I want people to show up and want, want to give them new music to hear and to find enjoyable to when I do the shows. What else? So a typical day, let's say, okay, when I go back November 1st, I'm going to be in LA. My typical day would be I wake up, do a little bit stretching, go to the gym, come home, figure out what I'm going to do in that day of like, do I have a session? If I have a session at 3, which is music session, I'll make music. Then I'll work with my team of like, content strategy for the next week or something like that. And then go make the session, go make the song, hope for the best in the studio, and then come home, rinse and repeat for weeks. And then one off day will be like, hey, we have a Show on the 12th, so we're gonna fly to Mexico City and hang out there for a couple days. I'm doing a show in Mexico City and then I Will fly back to LA or go to another place and just make content with people and doing.

[Graham]

Those shows in like the one offs in Mexico City. Are those worth it financially or would you say that's more so cultivating the audience.

[Baby No Money]

So one off shows, college shows, festivals, that those are worth it because they have a ton of production already and it's sometimes it, I would say 9.6 times out of 10, it's not a bad look. Or 96% of the time it's not a bad look. Sometimes, like the festival will flop or not sell tickets and then you're just like kind of left shitless. You're like, well, I didn't have the ability to market this, but sometimes like people can like post a video if there's like no one at your show and be like, wow, bro, fell off.

[Graham]

I've seen that with a few, like, rappers. Like, I swear I saw that with like, like Lil Baby so something.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah. Tickets right now, ticket sales are the lowest they've been in 35 years.

[Graham]

Why do you think that is?

[Baby No Money]

TikTok brain. People don't care. People want stimulus. Now. Why would you go to a show where it's like an hour and a half into your day, an hour transiting probably where you're like, oh, I have to go, like, listen to these songs in person. Yeah. There's obviously a lot of people that probably don't see it that way too, but think about the younger generation. And also there's a lot of people who like, probably don't even see it because social media is so alienating now. It's too much for people. Like, is it not too much for you guys?

[Graham]

Definitely is. It's not good for my brain. So I'm similar to you. Like, I try very hard. It's a conscious effort to limit it.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jack]

I've seen a lot of them cancel shows like, oh, we can't do these shows. We just didn't sell enough tickets.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, there's a lot of the cost, though. Well, no, it's like cost, but it's also just people aren't selling tickets. I don't know what it is. Luckily, thank the Gods, my American tour, because I was worried I was not going to sell any tickets. I don't know, just everyone around my camp, the people that I know just aren't selling tickets. And I was like, oh, shit, man. But we like blew out 10,000 tickets in a week, which is sick for me. That's way above average. My agent's texting me. He's like, bro, really proud. This is sick. We're on the up. Amazing. He's like, you're really blowing out tickets. Like, this is going to be great news for all the promoters and all the buyers of festivals. So I'm going to be able to do festival shows and get bags there. But yeah, I mean, things on my side are great.

[Jack]

So Google estimates your net worth at 3 to 5 million. Is that accurate? Where do they get that number from?

[Graham]

Are they just guessing?

[Baby No Money]

I don't know how they make these numbers. It's not accurate, but low.

[Jack]

Or is it high?

[Baby No Money]

Hey, man, we come, we come, we come to the game. We sometimes don't know how to play, but I don't. Yeah, I've never fully understood it of how they would make this assumption. I think if I wasn't independent, I would probably have less than that number. Hypothetically, I don't know. One of my largest decisions that I would say is a mistake is when I had La la la, I didn't sign my album. That album that I had. I didn't spend a penny marketing it because my algorithm, my name was so fueled, just like fueled in all social media. Like, I uploaded a video on YouTube and it did like 7 million first week. Because the next thing you upload when you have a banger is going to do better. Because the algorithm, I don't know fundamentally what it is, but so when that happened, I was like, all right, I'm, I'm gonna do it my way. But I, I up and I didn't spend a single penny on marketing that album where that album could have been ginormous. If I spent 100, $200,000, what do.

[Jack]

You spend the marketing on?

[Baby No Money]

Just like getting creators to make content, doing this, just like developing out the story as well. So, like, if I had a $200,000 budget, I'd probably spend like, I probably spend like $20,000 on like third party marketing teams to get like real big blog editorial posting so it feels real. So you can just use that content. You can get like a magazine post and be like, yeah, I'm on a front cover of a magazine, even though the magazine doesn't do anything, so it signals to the fan, you're like, oh, I'm cool, I'm real. And then I would. If a song goes crazy, you run it to radio. So radio is a completely tertiary, basically dying format. But if you have a song on like pop, pop, pop pop radio and it's going crazy, you're making million dollars a week. Like, you're Making a shit ton of money from the publishing side. So that's only if a song goes crazy. And then really like I would send the rest on a bunch of really epic music videos, like developing out the story of the album, the likeness of the album, the creative endeavors, and just putting more money into that so people can dive deeper into it. And then really 70, 60% of the marketing budget just drop it on like Instagram reels or people having. Making TikTok posts. And like when you see a little, a little smoke come up when you. That's the thing, you gotta be really, really opportunistic in music. And when you see a little smoke bubbling or like a bubble, you're like, oh, we gotta spend. Because you might miss, you might miss it in a millisecond.

[Jack]

So how do you recommend someone who wants to get into the music industry to start? Let's just say they're making their own music. They are in their parents bedroom just getting started. How do they blow up?

[Baby No Money]

Well, so this guy named David, I don't know, you know David in the closet? Yeah, in the closet. So this guy, I think his song is like 1.5 billion now. He made a song like on his iPhone and it's ginormous, like triple, quadruple, platinum. The homie was like making music in the Fortnite closet, like legit. He was a Fortnite streamer and it was like, fuck it, I'm gonna make music. Made one of the biggest songs of like 2022, 2023. I don't know when it was on his iPhone. You can just put music out, you never know what's gonna hit. And yeah, his whole life changed. Like SZA brought him on tour and just, just like that.

[Graham]

And he's young, he's super.

[Baby No Money]

I think like 18 still.

[Graham]

Yeah, like when that song came out, I think he was like 16 or something like that.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah. And there's like he uploads like photos of him and his, I think little sister or little brother and they're just like making new song. And I think the brother's like. Or Laura little sister, I don't really know, is like seven.

[Jack]

Wow.

[Baby No Money]

And it's just like, dude, what?

[Jack]

Like, so how does he get traction to that? Is it just posting it on YouTube? Did he use his audience?

[Baby No Money]

The Tick Tock is really what blew up. I don't know if he used his audience. I have no idea. Like there's a void in there. But the thing is, is like when you upload a song and you're Just being yourself on social media, it. It will hypothetically resonate someone. Something. You said you're like, are people making music for like, TikTok moments? I think if you just try to make a good song, it might go on TikTok, it might not. But even if it doesn't go on Tick Tock, if it's good, some people are going to listen to it. That's it.

[Graham]

Like, how have you been so strategic in marketing yourself? I feel like there are very few artists that go on as many podcasts as you go on that, like, that are so active on social media that, that, like, I mean, you collaborate with a bunch of like, YouTubers and stuff like that. And as I'm scrolling reels like, like, I'll see you all the time. Like, were you strategic in that area or does. Is that kind of just you taking every opportunity?

[Baby No Money]

It's kind of like me taking every opportunity. But I also like, have kind of branded myself to just be low effort. And it works sometimes. Sometimes it definitely does not work. And it really misses Tick Tock is as well. But I feel like a lot of the time it's just like the lower the effort, the better the results.

[Graham]

I just see a lot of like, the really popular artists as well, like Kendrick Lamar or Drake or Daniel Caesar Rex, Orange county, like, they're just completely gone. They're recluses. Like, they don't go on social media, they don't go on podcasts, they don't do anything. And then they just show up every once in a while with an album.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, I mean, there are different types of artists. I think I kind of live in a space where I'm a little bit new, aged, and I have to promote my music for it to be heard kind of thing. I also could just literally put a song out and just not touch it. I could totally do that. But I like, I like the challenge. I like thinking about it and being like, you know what? I would love for this song to be huge because it means a lot to me or something like that. Sometimes it gets incredibly frustrating and like, there's too many people speaking and I'll just like, be like, what the fuck? But most of the time it's very rewarding when it works. And, you know, it's like, what's the point of doing something if you're not going to do it to the best of your ability? I think that comes across as like, something that is very like, like a heart point of my. Of my brand and it's very accessible for people to be like, oh, he's just like. He's just a literal idiot on social media. That's. That kind of makes good music. It's cool. So that's. That's my take on it, I guess.

[Jack]

It's interesting when you mentioned that you were bigger in China of all markets. I heard you say that recently.

[Baby No Money]

China, dude, it's so ridiculous. China. I was in university and I got a dm. It was like, right during, like, midterms week. And I was like, man, I don't know if I can do this music shit anymore. It's really not working. Like, I was genuinely gonna give up. And this. I was also doing a Kobe's amount of Adderall because I'm not an academic. I wouldn't recommend it, guys. So I got a DM from this. This girl didn't follow anybody but me on Twitter and was like, hey, you're famous in China. I'm like, shut the up. Like, what do you mean? She's like, no, I'm being serious. I'm like, huh? And I had a foreign exchange student in. At my. In my class, and I was like, yo, like, do you. Do you know this, like, app called NetEase? And, like, Wongy and like, 163Music? And he's like, yeah. And I was like, do you know, like, do you know, like, what this means? And I was asking him, like, what all the analytics were, and he's like, wait, this is your song? And I'm like, what do you mean? And he's like, dude, this song is huge. I'm like, really? And then we just, like, became friends after that. And he, like, helped me get WeChat, helped me get Weibo and a bunch of the social medias. And then there's this dude named Loose out in. Out in Shanghai. And I was like, I made a fan group on. On WeChat. And so many fans poured in. They were like, my phone was, like, buzzing off the wazoo. And I was like, holy. I remember just sitting there with my roommate Kyle and Daniel, and we were just like, dude, what the is going on with my phone? Like, I couldn't use it because, like. And I texted this guy Loose. I was like, what's up? Everyone's telling me to hit you up. And he's like, cool, let's do a tour. And I was like, really? And homie scammed my ass so hard. Like, we sold out six capacities, all like 900 plus. And I went from doing midterms not selling, literally doing a show in Victoria BC with one singular person. Like one person to doing 900 capacity sold out shows. Like drunk off my ass, being like, it, let's party. And like, didn't even know my dj didn't even know to dj. Like we were just winging it so hard. And at that point he gave me like $2,000 for all these shows and I think he probably pocketed like 100 grand. But at that time I was busting tables and I was like, all right, this is sick. And I'm like, I'm making more money I would have made than busting tables playing my own music in China. I'm going. And I went. And it was like the greatest experience of my life. Like it was life changing for sure. Like people had tattoos of me out there. I was like, are you serious going on? I remember the first show, I turned around, I looked at Dan, my dj and I was like, bro, what the fuck is going on? And people were like.

[Jack]

And I'm like, bro, what the fuck?

[Baby No Money]

So that was like the first like whoa moment. And then everything, honestly everything after that kind of just became normalized because I was like, if, if my music can be so impactful in China, like it has to be able to be impactful out here. And I was just like, I got to keep trying. And then my homie young gravy blew up. And then it was just like we. I just kept trying. I stopped, stopped partying, started waking up at like 4 in the morning, started drinking coffee. I just started really giving it my all.

[Graham]

So what song was that?

[Baby No Money]

It was a song called Yo Yo Tokyo which I only had had out in North America for like not long, like not long, like very short. It was like a week. And then I don't know, the inception of how. So basically what happened was this, this guy, 16th birthday, Jackson Jackson Yee Jackson Yee. He danced to one of my songs in a two song choreographed like setup. And it was just one of my songs. So I have no idea who recommended it. I have no idea if my music was popular out there prior. But soon as he danced, I went immediately viral. That was basically it.

[Jack]

Although really quick, before we go into that, even if you think it's a bit overhyped, AI is suddenly everywhere from self driving cars, molecular medicine to business efficiency. If it's not in your industry yet, it's coming fast.

[Graham]

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[Jack]

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[Graham]

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[Jack]

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[Graham]

How was it performing in front of that amount, like 900 people after previously only performing in front of just like one or ten?

[Baby No Money]

Dude, I had, I got water on the CDJS and I had to do push ups for like 30 minutes. It was, it was a joke. I had no idea what the fuck was going on.

[Graham]

Was it freaky for you?

[Baby No Money]

It was like, this is funny. It was like, this is so not what it should be, but I'll take it. So it was kind of like a really, really eye opening experience that I was like, oh, maybe I do have the ability to do something like this. And I think it really gave me the driving factor of being like, I have to do this. Like something is telling me. I think once I saw some dude no have baby no money tattooed on his neck, I was like, okay, you up like so hard.

[Jack]

Did you tell him that he made a mistake?

[Baby No Money]

I think so.

[Jack]

Okay.

[Baby No Money]

But I was just, at that point I was like, I gotta do this, like religiously, like at least for him so he doesn't make a goddamn terrible ass mistake. But yeah, it was a very, very interesting experience to. But I don't know, I would love to refill that again because it was, it was so like unexpected. But at the same time I was making music and I was like, I really hope this would happen. And then I think the second time I ever felt something similar was when I had La La la. I was like, about time. Like it took me two and a half years later after I blew up in China, it took me two and a half years later to have La La La in North America. And that was like my first big stamp of approval in, in America. And in North America and like rest of the world. And at that moment I was like, okay, I made it. Like, I for sure made it.

[Jack]

How much do you make and then scrap and just don't post?

[Baby No Money]

Well, when you, when you dipped out for a minute, I was like, I basically make like 100 songs and I'll put out like seven.

[Jack]

Whoa.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, I scrap a lot. It kind of sucks because, like, I used to be way more down to just put everything out. But then I realized being more intentional and like actually putting out exclusively bangers, people will be like, oh, I know he's putting out like a hitter. So I'm gonna go back and make sure I listen to it for the first time.

[Jack]

But how do you know that those songs don't really hit with an audience? Wouldn't it be better to have like a, like an in person test group of like 20 people, 20 big fans play the music and just have them rate it. And if they like the song, maybe you, you test another group.

[Baby No Money]

I mean like, yeah, there's testing groups and stuff, but you never know. Like, you literally never know. I mean, I remember my videographer. I sent him all a lot and I was like, yo, we should shoot a banger to this one. This one's gonna be it. I promise you. I promise you. And he's like, I don't like this song at all. He's like, I don't even want to shoot it. I'm like, okay, don't worry about it. Didn't shoot the music video. And then we shot the music video because it blew up. We had to make a music video has like 700 million plays on YouTube. And I'm like, bro, you fucked up. That would have been like the biggest game changing asset for your like directing career for sure, ever. But I mean, that's just the nature of things.

[Jack]

I know for us and just for myself, there are some videos that I put so much time and effort into that I love the video and I post it. Just terrible.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Other videos I'll make on a whim, and they do really well. Even though I think it's not. Not the best video, it's just for whatever reason it did does well.

[Baby No Money]

So I, I did this video, this tick tocker guy, content creator guy named Justin Yee, and it's like super sick. It was for the song called two the one. I was talking about the music video and he did like a very DIY setup. Like made paintings, dude, this. And I honestly, when I watched the video, I'm like, this is so sick. Like it's really cool, but it just like doesn't do well on an algorithm and it just makes no fucking sense. Anyone would look at this video and be like, yo, this is so sick. Like great job. This is really cool. And it's like the formatting or like the file type or, or the video type, the video quality type will hinder the, the video. And it's just like, it's kind of interesting because it, it puts a weird perspective on content creators minds that is like I have to kind of fit into this pole or this, this, this line of how I make music and how I deliver it or how I make content and how I deliver it. And I think it's kind of like washed a little bit of people's full blown creativity and I think, I think it's like reducing the standard of quality across the board. And I think people are just getting more and more okay with just like mid tier everything.

[Graham]

So walk me through grinding for years and then having the song La La La that blows up. What are the next few days? Like what is your phone like? Does, is it just constant, just imessage barrage? Did you get any DMS from people you idolized?

[Baby No Money]

Oh yeah, I remember, I remember like the last day. Okay, so basically Y2K was going to get this record deal and when he was getting this record deal, he was like, we can't let this song drop. We like the song drop on streaming, we're fucked. Basically what'll happen is he might lose his deal. So I was like, all right, I'm going to work my ass off. So I worked like 14 hours of just like sending out people memes to post about the song basically. And then what happens at this moment? I call my ex and I'm like, I have a hit basically. And I call my manager and I'm like, dude, we gotta get this song go up, we're fucked. The next morning it goes up, I fly, I take a red eye to New York, we sign it just like that. And I just remember like right after I signed it, we went for beers and I was just like, damn, about time. Like it, like it, it felt like I was like, I was like about time. I've been working my goddamn ass off for like five years in North America and I had no, no recogn. And I was like for the first time ever, I felt like it just made sense. And it was cool because I think it was very validating that I knew that song was going to be a hit. And I was just like so convinced. I was just like, fuck it, I got to make this song a hit. And it was a hit. And then, like, all the other songs, I put out like a two before and two after. They all did great. And it was just kind of like a springboard effect that, like, took me up a lot. And, yeah, it's been a really interesting experience. There's highs and lows, peaks and peaks and, like, lows and whatnot, but I wouldn't. I wouldn't change it for the world. Sometimes it's really annoying that I have to make content all the time, but what's the.

[Jack]

What's the worst low?

[Baby No Money]

Sometimes I. I do too many shows and I, like, burn myself out really hard. Burnout is so real. Being a touring act, I think, like, just not having regularity in your schedule really is. Is tiresome. Yeah, I think. I think I've been to the point where I'm like, oh, I'm so past burnt out. I'm just so in burnout that I don't even recognize it sometimes. And then it just, like, gets, like, double down and that I'm just, like, cooked. I just sometimes, like, sit there and I'm like. And I want to do things, but I just can't. Like, I'm at capacity. And I also think I have ADHD and a bunch of, like, a lieu of other things, but I think that's probably the lowest it's been. Was recently.

[Jack]

How do you date as a musician? Is that something that's, like, easy? Is it difficult? Are there different challenges that come along with that?

[Baby No Money]

It's pretty cooked, I'll be honest. I remember this. This guy, David. I just bought my apartment, and we just had la la, la. And it was like, October, I don't know, 10th, and we're walking back into my fucking apartment. I remember this vividly. And he's like, yo, you know, dating for you is fucked for the rest of your life. And I'm like, like, God damn it. Stupid. And it's true. It's. It's. It's. It's a little difficult. For sure. I. That's the one pillar in my life that I don't really have fulfilled. And that's the one pillar in my life that I've always wanted. I just wanted, like, some normality with, like, love and affection and feelings and whatnot. But I mean, hey, I wouldn't be. I wouldn't be in the position I was in if I was dramatically in love, I think. And I also wouldn't switch it for anything.

[Jack]

What Makes it so difficult. You think it would be, like, really easy? No.

[Graham]

Like, what's the hardest part?

[Baby No Money]

Maintaining a relationship. I am a serial monogamous, and I believe out of a place of trust and love. And I want to build a family, basically. But it's just like, yeah, I can go and get laid. What's that going to do for me? It doesn't make me happy and, like, I don't want that.

[Jack]

But it seems like it would be easy to find a relationship too.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, easier. But it's. But there's all. At least historically in the past for me, there's been, like, these weird dynamics where I just don't like it. I want a dynamic that we're both growing together rather than, like, swapping back and forth, like the power struggle kind of thing. And I, you know, interestingly enough, like, I go on tour, I'm the one that's insecure. So I have a bunch of shit I got to figure out myself because I kind of neglected all of my emotional wellbeing for like eight years to do all this music shit. And I feel like I'm kind of like, lightly emotionally stinted, but I'm working on it now, so. Yeah, but at the same time, what's.

[Jack]

What are you insecure about if you're on a tour? Is it like, the time difference and not spending time with someone?

[Baby No Money]

I don't really know. Sometimes I don't even know what I need in a relationship. But I'm gathering recently that I haven't yet met a person that wants to take a relationship as serious as I do. And I like. I want. I want to find a connection that I really like, love and find fulfilling. And I think a lot of the time, the. Sometimes we view connections as, like, potential dynamic where it's like, probably not healthy, or we're like, oh, this is fun. This is great. But I have yet to meet someone that kind of checks all the boxes and actually wants. I've met people that have checked boxes and don't want a relationship or a committed relationship, but I've yet to meet anyone that wants a committed relationship and has checked all the boxes, obviously. Yeah. God bless if I meet someone that's perfect. That's perfect. I'm. You know, there's someone out there for me for sure. I'm. I'm not too, too, too worried. And one of these days they will come around for sure. It's just like, would be doper sooner than later kind of thing.

[Graham]

I got it. This is completely like a 180 but I have a question about your hair. Your hairline is immaculate. Do you take any sort of thing for your hairline? And on top of that, like, the beard. It's the perfect beard. I, I am so hairy. I have a lot of hair, but it doesn't grow in perfectly like your beard and mustache do.

[Jack]

You're really going strong with the compliments.

[Graham]

Look, I know. I mean, single, I'm single. We can figure something out. No, I'm just trying to understand. There's like, how did you, like, derma roll? Or is there like a.

[Jack]

Are you guys going to co parent?

[Graham]

I want to be a dad.

[Baby No Money]

I do literally nothing to my, like, nothing.

[Graham]

It's the worst thing you could have told me.

[Baby No Money]

Well, obviously, like, I, I, I shaved a bit today. Like, I, you know, I got to clean it up a little bit. But for hair, I don't use shampoo or conditioner or nothing. I just let it go greasy and just let it grow up.

[Graham]

So I actually did that for, like two or so months because I heard dandruff is generated from drying your, your hair out. And then it, like, starts accumulating, and then you dry it out again to fix the dandruff, which does it, but temporarily. And then it starts accumulating again. But if you get past that crux, then over time, you won't have the dandruff. Is that what you experience? Is that actually true?

[Baby No Money]

I don't really deal with dandruff. I just like, I remember I was in high school, my brother was getting all, like, hipstery, and he's like, yeah, don't wash your hair, bro. And I just stopped washing my hair with the smell. Doesn't smell bad. Starts naturally cleaning itself. Legit. Smell it if you want. Get over here, man. All right.

[Graham]

Yeah, you can lean over the table.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, yeah, don't smell that.

[Graham]

That's like, That's a good musk. Yeah, it's not even, it's not even like, musk. It doesn't even. It's not that it smells like nothing, but it's, it's a musk, you know, like a good musk.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, very manly.

[Graham]

Anyways, we gotta change the course of this conversation because I'm outing myself. Guys, I'm straight. There have been questions. People think that Graham and I are, like, dating. That's not the case.

[Baby No Money]

That's dope.

[Graham]

Okay, I have a question about private venues. Justin bieber was paid $10 million. They're not. It might be confirmed, I don't know. But it's Been widely reported that he was paid $10 million to perform at a pre wedding celebration for a super wealthy, like, billionaire family, one of the wealthiest people in Asia. Have you ever been offered like a private venue thing or is that like something that happens? I'm so curious because $10 million to perform probably like, ridiculous.

[Baby No Money]

It's Justin Bieber. No, like Justin B. Have you seen Justin Bieber live, either of you guys?

[Graham]

No.

[Jack]

No.

[Baby No Money]

Incredible. Like, I always was like, oh, it's Justin Bieber. Cringe. I saw him live and I was like, oh, like he's perfectly in key. Like every, every word he says is perfect. It's perfect. Like, I always. I always was just like, you know what? Like all these girls like Justin Bieber, you know, whatever. He's probably just cute, but he's so unbelievably professional. It's nuts. Have I done like a super private event? I've definitely done private events, but not to that extent, obviously. Like 10. If I was making $10 million for a private event, black cards would be on me for sure. I've definitely done private events. I mean, they, they typically do pay better, but they suck.

[Graham]

It's not as fun.

[Baby No Money]

Well, yeah, definitely not.

[Graham]

Because no one's like singing your music.

[Baby No Money]

No one's like, actually there for you. You're just like that. That, that is. That is like the wife's dream. And he's like, all right, I got you. Like, I love you. Here's $10 million. But I mean, I would have loved to go to that wedding. Sounds like a blast.

[Jack]

I think it lasted over like several days to that wedding.

[Graham]

Did it really?

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Graham]

Oh, my gosh.

[Baby No Money]

I mean, $10 million, man.

[Graham]

That's a lot.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah. It's so interesting that he would still do that for $10 million.

[Graham]

10 million. I mean, you know, I mean, it's.

[Baby No Money]

A lot of money.

[Graham]

Private jet, like sentence. And they'll make it so easy on him. I think he just showed up performing and left. So it's like maybe 24 hours, maybe 30 hours for $10 million.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Apparently he left right afterwards. I'm pretty sure some. Some of it was posted on TikTok. Not the concert itself, but like his wedding. And I believe it lasted like a week.

[Baby No Money]

That's so far, a week long. And when I get married, I'm two weeks. Yeah.

[Jack]

All the groomsmen got AP watches, but like this. I think it was like the skeleton apartment. Yeah. Because they posted a photo of like all the aps together, like in a circle.

[Graham]

So you really know all the Lore.

[Baby No Money]

Damn, we fucking suck. We should have had the wedding.

[Graham]

We need an. I would love. Yeah. What about features? Is there a lot of money in features?

[Baby No Money]

Like, doing features.

[Graham]

Doing features. Yeah. Or like, do you pay other people to come on your. On your. How is that. How's that economy working typically?

[Baby No Money]

I really like just doing a song where it's like, I meet them. I meet them and I'm like, I actually vibe with them, and then I'll send them a song and they'll do it or something. We. I did this song with the Young Bay ages ago. We ended up getting Whiz Whiz Khalifa. It was Cleaver. I got Wiz Cleave on it and. Wow. How did I. Yeah, yeah.

[Jack]

I was about to say whiz.

[Baby No Money]

What?

[Graham]

I'm like.

[Jack]

I'm like, Khalifa.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah.

[Jack]

It must not be Khalifa, dude.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah. My brain just turned off. I. This is my new drive. So we ended up getting him on it. It was like 50 grand, but, like, I had no communication with it. This wasn't my song. They, like, uploaded it. They did everything. And, yeah, he kind of made this on a little cooler, but it didn't really do anything.

[Graham]

50 grand to get Wiz Khleif on a song.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, but this was like. This was like four years ago when he was a lot more popping. Interesting, because I think. I think he probably had a couple kids and I was chilling.

[Graham]

Who's somebody that you would love to collaborate with on a song?

[Baby No Money]

I've always said, like, Pharrell Williams or Timbaland. Missy Elliot.

[Jack]

Just Missy Elliot.

[Baby No Money]

Just like the Legends. Yeah. That'd be really basic. But as. As far as, like, more contemporary, there's this girl named Levi.

[Graham]

Yeah.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah. I love her music. Like, I don't think we would make a song that makes any sense, really. Maybe. But there's something that her music has is just. That is eons better than everyone else's. It's so beautiful. It's so pretty and, like, charismatic. And also, like, the visual imagery comes across perfect in her music. Like, you can listen to a song, you can just, like, see it in form of a Disney movie. It's weird.

[Graham]

No, she's awesome. That would be great. That would be really cool.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah.

[Jack]

I'm really curious where you invest your own money. Like, do you save it? Do you invest it somewhere? Like, what's the plan?

[Baby No Money]

I have a saving principle of, like, at least minimally 70%, but that has been since day one. I started working at my dad's store, like, super, super early on. So I've been saving about 70% minimum. But honestly it equates to about like after my net, probably like 80, 90%. I don't spend, I don't spend any of my fucking money. And then I just, honestly I could be doing a lot better financially. I have like probably 5 or 10% in like kind of high risk or.

[Graham]

Like risk like individual stocks and crypto.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, stuff like that. During the crypto pump in like 2021, I ended up doing pretty decent. And then I poured it all into bitcoin so I have like five coins. Oh good. It's pretty dope. And then I have like probably like 80%, 85% locked away and just like high interest. High interest.

[Jack]

Oh, like high income?

[Baby No Money]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Are you not.

[Graham]

What about index funds?

[Baby No Money]

No, I just don't do that.

[Jack]

Why?

[Baby No Money]

My dad and I, we just have this principle where it's like safety, just full blown safe.

[Jack]

That might be a little too safe because you're losing some purchasing power to inflation. And the downside, you're getting taxed at your, at your normal tax rate.

[Graham]

Just keeping it in the savings, that's.

[Jack]

Like the least optimal thing that you could do.

[Graham]

Yeah, well, it's better than, just better than. You know what I mean?

[Jack]

Nothing totally.

[Baby No Money]

I don't disagree with any of you guys, but I also like, I don't like looking at my money that much. So my dad is just, he kind of just does it for me and I'm like happy that he has like a portion in my business.

[Jack]

You might want to look into a financial advisor or.

[Baby No Money]

I do have a financial advisor, but. But that is not.

[Jack]

Listen to him.

[Baby No Money]

He like only does like crypto shit. Okay.

[Jack]

That's not a financial advice. I don't know.

[Graham]

Honestly, that's like, that's like your friend's neighbor's like older brother.

[Jack]

Financial.

[Baby No Money]

To be real. To be real. I feel like if I spend more time on my music in my business.

[Jack]

I understand.

[Graham]

Well, yeah, there's the highest ROI in that.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, the highest roi.

[Jack]

But I'm just saying when you start getting into seven figures, the amount that you're miss, like just for perspective on this, the market is up like 25% this year. 25%. So for every million dollar million, that's $250,000 per million that you've missed out on theoretically this year that you would not be taxed on until you sold. So there's a lot that's going on there that you really should pay attention to because it's just if we have another 20% year at some point in the future, you know, 5 million. That's a million dollars.

[Graham]

Well, do you have an index? Like you know what an index fund is?

[Baby No Money]

Like? Kind of. I kind of just haven't really spent too much brain power on that and I probably should.

[Jack]

You don't need to spend any brain power. I'm talking just, just get a fee only financial advisor. You pay them by the hour and you just say, tell me what to do or just invest what you recommend on my behalf. It'll take you probably under an hour. Like, and, and he's like, finding someone to that one hour will make you.

[Graham]

I'm guessing, probably millions of dollars over the course of a few years.

[Jack]

Easily millions of dollars for one hour of your time. It's, it's because we have a lot of people on.

[Graham]

That is your Justin Bieber private venue thing right there.

[Baby No Money]

Okay.

[Jack]

Yeah, we have a lot of people on here.

[Baby No Money]

I mean, I've been meaning to have a long discussion with my dad because I just feel like fundamentally we're not doing enough with the money. You guys are heard. Okay, thank you.

[Jack]

If you have any questions, I mean, just let us know. Yeah, but we could try to point you in the right direction for like, you know, someone to talk to on this like a professional. But it's very easy, it's very simple. And as long as you're not planning to spend it in the next like 10, 15 years, you'll be able to write out any sort of like fluctuation in the market. There's a chance. Listen, there's a chance you lose money over the next like 10 years.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Long term, it's highly unlikely. Like the risk reward is like this amount of risk for like that much reward. It's worth it.

[Graham]

And I like. If you don't like looking at it. I like an auto invest feature. So every week it just pulls out of my savings and just puts it in there. And it could even be for you like a very negligible amount of money just so you can see it over the course of even like a year and be like, I like this. I like how it's working. Even if at the end of a year it's like 20 grand, you know?

[Baby No Money]

Yeah. Honestly, I do have to do a little bit more diligence with that regard because I feel like a lot of the time I kind of just turn a blind eye and just my dad is really happy doing what he's doing and I like to include him because that's just the most important thing. And he's. He's the most risk adverse person I've ever met in my life. And I kind of. I kind of like, don't mind it.

[Graham]

But doing a great job saving that amount of money and putting in a high yield savings account, like that is over.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Graham]

Objectively, it's way worse.

[Baby No Money]

No, I could be just not doing anything with it.

[Jack]

Or you could be spending all the money.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah. And I don't spend anything. Yeah, we have all of it locked away kind of thing. But I mean, I could take it out and play with it more, but I just. I need to slow down my business, like, mind and then I can start working on that. For sure. I just. Yeah.

[Jack]

Get someone else too.

[Baby No Money]

Because.

[Jack]

Because I hope that your. Your mind doesn't slow down anytime soon because you could continue to utilize that.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Where you're at now, you could be 10 times over the next, like, five years. But at the same time, that's crazy.

[Baby No Money]

To even think about. Five years, ten times. That's nuts. I don't even want that.

[Jack]

But whatever you want. Yeah, I mean, I appreciate.

[Graham]

I appreciate that you're not wasting your money.

[Jack]

It upsets me when people aren't optimizing.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, dude, I definitely. I definitely. I definitely need to optimize a little bit. For sure.

[Jack]

Cool.

[Baby No Money]

But my bro, My. My financial advisor, dude. Or like, the guy who, like, invests.

[Jack]

Not a financial advisor.

[Baby No Money]

No texting me, he's like, hey, yo, should we invest in Skibidi toilet? He's like, the movie's about to drop. And I was like, oh, my God, bro. Like, did he. I woke up and that was like, one of the first texts I saw, like, six in the morning. I was like, what the.

[Jack]

And you're like, yes, skinny toilet.

[Baby No Money]

Come on.

[Jack]

Who is this guy? You don't have to say.

[Baby No Money]

His name's John.

[Graham]

Has he gotten you good returns?

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, he's got me. He's got me huge. Plays like, he'll be like, yo, give me 15k. And he flips this to like 100 something.

[Jack]

Dude, it sounds like a pump and dump group. I'm not gonna lie.

[Baby No Money]

But it's at, like, an actual firm.

[Graham]

Do they say, like, do they. No, it's not firm. There's no way is it firm.

[Jack]

There's no way.

[Graham]

Do they say, oh, baby? No. Money bought this?

[Baby No Money]

No, I don't think so.

[Graham]

Okay.

[Baby No Money]

It's definitely not. It's definitely not pumping enough.

[Jack]

Is he on Twitter?

[Baby No Money]

I mean, he's definitely kind of on Twitter, but I mean, hey, I mean.

[Graham]

Dude, I mean, if he's making you money, you know.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah, yeah.

[Graham]

Keep the amounts that you're sending him fairly low.

[Baby No Money]

Okay, well, let's talk. Let's talk off the books. Let's talk off the books because always got to make more money.

[Jack]

You got to change your name to Baby Got Money.

[Baby No Money]

Baby has. Yes.

[Jack]

Money has Money.

[Baby No Money]

Yeah.

[Jack]

No. Money. Yes. Money. Yes. I don't know.

[Baby No Money]

Well, boys, that was great. Thanks for the conversation.

[Graham]

Thank you so much for on the show. We'll link to a bunch of stuff down below in the description, including our new song that's coming out. So got to think about a music video.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Graham]

Do you want to shout out anything? Like, you have, like, you know, tours.

[Baby No Money]

Coming up or end of November? I might have a new song out. If I do have a new song out, go listen to it. If I don't go buy a ticket, come to my shows. It's probably sold out of that time. Love your parents and your family. Cool.

[Graham]

Amazing. Thank you guys for watching.

[Jack]

Until next time.