Brett Cooper Breaks Silence on Leaving the Daily Wire, Starting Over, and Controversy

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Brett Cooper Breaks Silence on Leaving the Daily Wire, Starting Over, and Controversy"
Episode Release Date: May 4, 2025
Published on: The Iced Coffee Hour podcast hosted by Graham Stephan and Jack Selby

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Introduction

In this revealing episode of The Iced Coffee Hour, hosts Graham Stephan and Jack Selby sit down with Brett Cooper to discuss her recent departure from the Daily Wire, her journey toward starting anew, and various controversies that have surrounded her. The conversation delves deep into societal divides, personal growth, and the complexities of modern relationships.

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Departure from the Daily Wire

Brett Cooper opens up about her decision to leave the Daily Wire, emphasizing the challenges of moving away from a well-established platform.

• Brett Cooper [00:41]: "I wrote every single episode of the show that I did and I put the story together. I drove the creation of it."

• Graham Stephan [01:13]: "What was the most difficult part of branching out on your own?"

• Brett Cooper [01:19]: "Not knowing what I didn't know."

Cooper explains that leaving the Daily Wire was a significant step toward gaining autonomy in her content creation and aligning her work more closely with her personal values.

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Societal Divides: Men vs. Women

A substantial portion of the discussion centers on the deepening divide between men and women in 2025, touching on happiness, finances, education, and ideology.

• Brett Cooper [00:56]: "This divide between men and women goes so deep right now... happiness and finances and educational levels to ideology."

• Graham Stephan [04:25]: "According to the polls it is the most divisive we've ever been in history."

Cooper attributes the increasing division to heightened partisanship on both sides, echo chambers amplified by social media algorithms, and a lack of common ground. She highlights the challenges of maintaining relationships amid these societal tensions.

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Personal Life and Marriage

Cooper shares intimate details about her personal life, including her recent marriage to Alex Selby, and how it has influenced her perspective.

• Brett Cooper [02:12]: "Yes, happy to be here."
• Jack Selby [06:37]: "So many things to catch up on. Thanks again."

Cooper describes the supportive dynamics of her marriage, emphasizing mutual respect and understanding of each other's strengths and weaknesses. She discusses the importance of having a partner who complements her and shares similar values.

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Controversies and Public Perception

Cooper addresses the backlash she has faced following specific episodes, including her stance on Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and her discussions about young men in society.

• Brett Cooper [12:35]: "I think it was just something that I hadn't talked about a lot, was that I'm not a fan of Zelensky."

• Brett Cooper [10:56]: "It’s incredibly hard... requires a lot of humility."

She explains that her critical views on certain political figures have sparked negative reactions, often misunderstood as animosity rather than thoughtful critique. Cooper also reflects on her episode about the challenges facing young men, which received intense backlash from male listeners who felt misunderstood.

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Mental Health and the Systemic Issues

A significant segment of the conversation focuses on Cooper's personal struggles with her brother's mental illness and the inadequacies of the current mental health system.

• Brett Cooper [52:29]: "The system is really not set up to help people like my brother succeed."

• Brett Cooper [58:28]: "He was in this awful environment. He stopped speaking."

Cooper passionately discusses the lack of proper nutritional and lifestyle support in mental health facilities, advocating for more holistic and empathetic approaches. She critiques the isolation and neglect experienced by her brother, highlighting the urgent need for systemic reform.

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Dating and Relationship Advice

Cooper offers insights into the complexities of modern dating, especially in the context of heightened societal divisions and hookup culture.

• Brett Cooper [74:03]: "There are different deal breakers for guys and for girls, but they are very similar."

• Brett Cooper [78:16]: "It's about mutual respect and understanding of each other's strengths and weaknesses."

She emphasizes the importance of shared values, ambition, and mutual support in relationships. Cooper advises joining organized groups or clubs as a more effective way to meet like-minded individuals compared to traditional dating apps, which she critiques for fostering superficial connections.

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Handling Criticism and Public Scrutiny

Cooper discusses the unfair criticisms she has faced, often labeled as "super hateful" due to her political views, despite her efforts to approach issues with empathy and common sense.

• Brett Cooper [43:19]: "Oh, she's super hateful. Just because of my politics."

She expresses frustration over ad hominem attacks that overshadow the substantive issues she addresses. Cooper advocates for a more nuanced understanding of her intentions and the content she produces, pointing out that snippets of her work out of context contribute to misunderstandings.

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Future of Her Podcast and Business Model

Transitioning from the Daily Wire, Cooper reveals her plans for her independent podcast, focusing on sustainable and value-driven growth.

• Brett Cooper [175:03]: "I wanted to have something that worked for me and my values and my audience and the show and where I wanted it to go."

Cooper outlines her revenue streams, primarily through advertising partnerships with brands she genuinely supports, and a subscription-based platform, Cooper Confidential. She highlights the importance of maintaining control over her content and ensuring that her advertising aligns with her personal and professional ethics.

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Rapid Fire Segment

In a swift rapid-fire section, Cooper addresses questions ranging from personal opinions to societal issues. Some notable responses include:

• Who do you think is smarter, Andrew Tate or Jordan Peterson?
  Brett Cooper: Jordan Peterson.

• Do women have too much dating power in today's society?
  Brett Cooper: Yes.

• Is therapy culture ruining resilience?
  Brett Cooper: Yes.

These concise answers reflect Cooper's positions on various contemporary topics, showcasing her firm stances.

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Conclusion

Brett Cooper's candid revelations provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of her motivations, challenges, and aspirations following her departure from the Daily Wire. Her insights into societal divides, mental health, and relationships offer valuable perspectives in today's polarized environment. The episode underscores the importance of personal growth, mutual respect in relationships, and the need for systemic changes in addressing mental health issues.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Brett Cooper [00:52]: "I was always kind of thinking about breaking a cycle."
• Brett Cooper [04:25]: "I think there was far more division in like a 2020 than there is now."
• Brett Cooper [10:56]: "It's incredibly hard... requires a lot of humility."
• Brett Cooper [25:07]: "Becoming pro life was like, that's like a major, like, complete 180 shift."
• Brett Cooper [33:35]: "I have to go on stage and do your violin recital and you don't know the song."
• Brett Cooper [43:19]: "It's unfair because it's more of an ad hominem attack."
• Brett Cooper [74:03]: "There are different deal breakers for guys and for girls, but they are very similar."
• Brett Cooper [175:03]: "I wanted to have something that worked for me and my values and my audience and the show and where I wanted it to go."

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Recommendations for Non-Listeners:
This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in understanding the personal and professional transitions of a public figure navigating away from a major platform. Brett Cooper's honest discussion about societal issues, personal struggles, and relationship dynamics provides valuable insights and fosters a deeper connection with her audience.

Transcript

[Brett Cooper]

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[Graham Allen]

Brett Cooper's departure has caused quite a stir.

[Brett Cooper]

I wrote every single episode of the show that I did and I put the story together. I drove the creation of it. I knew that my situation was not normal. So I was always kind of thinking about breaking a cycle.

[Jack]

Would you say right now, going on 2025, the most divided we've been.

[Brett Cooper]

This divide between men and women goes so deep right now between happiness and finances and educational levels to ideology. I think people kind of brush it aside and make fun of it and we laugh at it and we say, oh, these liberal women, whatever. It's so important.

[Jack]

Brett Cooper announces she is leaving the Daily Wire.

[Graham Allen]

Brett Cooper is officially leaving the Daily Wire. What was the most difficult part of branching out on your own?

[Brett Cooper]

Not knowing what I didn't know.

[Graham Allen]

Was there anything that they could have done to have kept you?

[Jack]

Brett, thank you so much for coming on the Iced Coffee Hour.

[Brett Cooper]

Happy to be here.

[Jack]

So our first episode was one of our most viewed episodes ever. It did like over 100 million views across all platforms.

[Brett Cooper]

That's crazy.

[Jack]

2 million on video and audio of like the main full length podcast. Everyone loved it. And you have so many things going on right now. Leaving the Daily Wire. We have you getting married or you got married.

[Brett Cooper]

Yep.

[Jack]

So many things to catch up on. Thanks again.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah, happy to be here.

[Jack]

So we're really curious because we think, I think it's the most divisive time ever, but people, I feel like, always say that.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Would you say right now, going on 2025, the most divided we've been?

[Brett Cooper]

I don't think so. I think because we just came off of a period of what I feel like was real unity for a moment, like during the election, I felt like there was more unity in this country than I had ever experienced before. And you know, I was a post 911 baby. I feel like I didn't experience like my parents, you know, talk about what the world was like after 9 11, where the entire country came together and there it felt like there was this whole, you know, unified American spirit. And maybe it's because of the bubble that I was in in terms of my values and the show that I do, but it felt very unified in November of like everybody who had crossed the aisle to vote for Trump, everybody who was excited where the country was going. It felt like it was very pop, although really quick.

[Graham Allen]

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[Jack]

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[Brett Cooper]

And then actually the first episode that I did on my show kind of speaks to what you're talking about now, which was I feel like that started to crumble. So I think that there's still some like lingering pieces of unity, but I feel like the right were just bad winners in general. And I feel like there's a lot of divisiveness within the right wing in general. I think the left is also kind of imploding on itself because they don't know what's going on. So them just speaking purely politically. So I think there's a lot of confusion, but I think there was far more division in like a 2020 than there is now. That felt like hostile division. This feels like confused chaos.

[Graham Allen]

See, I've seen those charts, the polls that show like the unity throughout the 90s and then it just diverges in the last like three or four years. And now I think according to the polls it is the most divisive we've ever been in history. And it seems like the right's more right and the left is more left.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah.

[Graham Allen]

Fewer people in the middle.

[Brett Cooper]

And it's interesting. And I wonder if that's because people have now felt like they need to be in a party. Like, the middle is no longer a common ground, like, place to be. Like, I feel like that's happened on both the right and the left, where the right has pointed fingers and said, like, you can't be a centrist, you can't be an independent. You need to be over here, where the left has kind of done the same thing of if you step out of line, then you're canceled. So I think a lot of people have just become more and more partisan, which is probably added to that division. And again, I think that in terms of both parties, you have that additional layer of it being. So maybe you are right in terms of, like, it's, like, there's broader division, and then within each, like, segment of our, like, political landscape, there also feels like a lot of division.

[Graham Allen]

I think it's almost echo chambers online that the algorithms really promote the extremes. And, like, the more outrageous you are. Like, I could tell some people purposely will, like, toe the line, and they do it intentionally to get a reaction and just you get one side just losing their mind. But that engagement just, like, drives it to the top. And then the people that feed into that now, like, have a direction. They, they. They could either go down that and it just, it becomes the echo chamber.

[Brett Cooper]

And there's this whole conversation about, like, whether monetizing X was a good idea because of that, because now you have, like, the engagement baiters. Whether it's just the, like, what do you think about that? Like, they post some, like, ridiculous story with a ridiculous question, or it's the toeing the line and just basically being a fire brand. And I think Matt Walsh was tweeting about this just a couple of days ago of saying that he wishes that it wasn't monetized because it's made the platform just so messy. And it's. I think he believes that it's hurt the political landscape in a lot of ways, but I think that it has changed incentives, for sure, especially on that platform. But, yeah, yeah.

[Jack]

What I find interesting is that the, the conflict and the divisiveness I think is now emerging in a way of, like, people don't even want to have conversations. And I've noticed this. I'm kind of outing myself early here, but, like, somewhat recently, I'm not going to say when, uh, I matched with a woman on hinge.

[Brett Cooper]

Okay.

[Jack]

And her message to me Was, oh, no, oh, I just found you online. And I was like, oh, cool. Like, what did you see? And she's like, well, I think that you're one of those, like, right wing, like, senior.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And I'm like, I looked at my Instagram. Cause she found my Instagram. And I think what she was referring to is that I asked Jordan Peterson what his favorite books were.

[Brett Cooper]

That's insane.

[Jack]

She saw that I was associated with Jordan Peterson and that was too much for her.

[Brett Cooper]

Okay, so this is another part of divisiveness is that men and women are more divided than ever. So now that I'm like, walking through all of this, I think where I was looking at it through the lens of just like, oh, the right and the left. I think when you look at our society, we are probably, and I don't know if this is what that, you know, polling was looking at, but so now we have. We've already kind of gone through these other places that are more divided, but like men and women, ideologically, we are now more divided than ever. Like, women are moving farther to the left, men are increasingly moving to the right. But it's not even like you're out here being some like, crazy right wing extremist. But just because you associated with Jordan Peterson or you, you know, interviewed Ven Shapiro, it's like, oh, it's just. And it's. I think that male female division is playing a much bigger role than a lot of people are talking about.

[Graham Allen]

It's under the interview with David Pakman or Anna.

[Jack]

Yeah. Or like destiny. Or destiny. Like anybody.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jack]

It's crazy, but it doesn't matter. It's like if you're just in rooms with certain people, they won't, they won't even ask you questions. They just make assumptions for sure. And I find that really interesting. Also you look at like Anna Kasparian, how she's now been, some people think, sympathizing with the right a little bit more. And then everyone's disliking this, which is so weird. Some people on the right are a little receptive to it. Everyone on the left thinks she's like a traitor. A lot of people on the right are like, well, you still said all of these things a couple years ago, and for that we're not going to forgive you.

[Brett Cooper]

And that's the finger wagging, which is so annoying to me, because if somebody is being willing to cross party lines for the sake of. And I don't look at her as grifting at all, but truly, for the sake of understanding, of wanting the world to be better, of really trying to find common ground. It's like, who are we then to point fingers and say, oh, I'm not going to forgive you for this. I'm not forgetting. It's like all the COVID stuff of, you know, people who were late to the game on masks and lockdowns or vaccines or whatever it might be, who came out of the fog three years later and went, oh, my God, this destroyed our economy. This destroyed young people and their development. This created a mental health crisis. I can't believe that I engaged in this, that I supported it. And you have people on the right who, you know, we're not for. You know, we're not forgiving or forgetting. We are. We're never letting you move on. I'm like, they're human beings. Everybody makes mistakes. Everybody does things that they regret or thinks things that they regret. Now they've changed their minds about things. We're never going to move forward and have actual progress if you can't come to the table and have a conversation. So I think it's a problem on both sides, for sure. The right is definitely better at it, but there are still those people that are. So maybe it's the right that I did.

[Jack]

Did you see Chris Cuomo and pbd, how PBD was trying to invite Chris to be, like, a regular paid talent on the show? And, like, the comments were insane.

[Brett Cooper]

Sure.

[Jack]

How they. Like, every time you appeared, all of the top comments, thousands of like, how could you bring this person on your show? How could you be platforming this person? Like, I didn't think that this was, you know, going to be this big of an issue. And I congratulated people. I'm like, I love this idea.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Like, oh, thank you. I'm like, why did you do it? Like, well, I want to connect both sides.

[Graham Allen]

And I'm like, good impression.

[Jack]

I was like, yeah, that's great. I love that. And. But, yeah, the people don't like it.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah, I think. And I think that also depends on who your audience is and who the bases. Like, it would kind of make sense in terms of PBD's audience that they might not be interested in that. Whereas I think my audience that is already very ideologically diverse, which is something that I'm super proud of and I think is very, very special. Like, whenever I talk about things that. Or talk about individuals or people that might not be completely, you know, partisan or be on, you know, the other side, they're very Receptive to it, because it's like, no, this is about common ground. It is about trying to move forward in a positive, productive way. And so I think it's just encouraging people to lean into that, which is hard. It's hard to sit across from somebody who thinks differently than you and have humility and grace and try to find understanding. It is hard for a lot of people to forgive and forget when their lives were completely changed by something that was so destructive and so awful. But I think you can't live in the past. You're never gonna move forward from that. It's just kind of a. Yeah.

[Jack]

Do you think you can change your mind in public anymore? And if so, how do you do it?

[Brett Cooper]

Oh, gosh, it's really, really hard because it does require a lot of humility. It's hard as an individual, just in general, without, you know, having any kind of public platform to change your mind and accept responsibility and let people know that you're changing your mind. That's just hard in your personal life, regardless. But it's incredibly hard in this media landscape that moves so quickly and where people are so judgmental and they just clip things. So I think it's definitely harder. And it makes me respect the people like Ana who are able to do that, who are able even just, like, dipping their toe and, you know, saying, maybe I thought incorrectly about this. Maybe my mind is changing. It's really, really hard. Like, I look at the Nicole Shanahans and the Tulsi Gabbards of the world. I mean, like, Tulsi is the prime example of this. Who was literally put on no fly lists because of her path of changing her mind. She was villainized by her own people, by her own party in her community, by. And I think one of the reasons why people love her so much now, especially on the right, is because she took all of that into. Right. You know, she went through all of it with grace. She never wavered. And that's incredibly, incredibly hard to do. And I think that's why there are so few examples of that. If you talk to Nicole Shanahan, what she and her family went through, her entire foundation basically being taken away from her. I mean, it was just insane. And I think when you are somebody with that much influence and that much, you know, you could say power or just, you know, I guess influences is the best word. It just becomes increasingly difficult, and I think it's. It requires a lot of fortitude.

[Graham Allen]

So, yeah, what's a hot take you have that you get a lot of Hate for.

[Brett Cooper]

Funnily enough, the last thing that really pissed people off, which is not a hot take at all, but I think it was just something that I hadn't talked about a lot, was that I'm not a fan of Zelensky, and that's not a hot take. Like, I really like. It was. I did an episode about, like, Trump's first 30 days in office, and I talked about his meeting with Zelensky. That was super viral with him and J.D. vance, and I basically talked about, you know, the humor in it. But I definitely had some snide remarks about Zelensky and the fact that, as an American taxpayer, really don't want to be funding a war anymore. And my comments were, like, lit up of people being like, I had no idea that you are, like, against Zelensky. And that was, like, the most recent thing, but that's not even a hot take. So I don't know if I.

[Jack]

Why do you think they thought you were in support of him?

[Brett Cooper]

I don't, because I just never talked about. Because I don't really talk about foreign policy.

[Jack]

And so you think your audience, disproportionately. They all side with him.

[Brett Cooper]

I don't think I'm not side with.

[Jack]

Him in that way, but, like, they all do.

[Brett Cooper]

I also think that it was, like, a smaller vocal minority. Like, it was just people who came out of the woodwork who, like my. So I can see, like, my normal commenters, like, the people who are always, like, the first one to comment on. Yeah, exactly.

[Graham Allen]

Thank you, guys. Yeah, I really appreciate it.

[Brett Cooper]

But it's like they're all. Their comments were totally normal and fine. It was like random accounts I had never seen before that just, like, popped out of the woodwork that were just so horrified.

[Graham Allen]

Do you think they're bots?

[Brett Cooper]

They could be. I know, but that was, like.

[Graham Allen]

It could be someone just. Yeah, yeah.

[Brett Cooper]

But that was the most recent thing that's, like, got me in hot water. But I really don't get into hot water that frequently because I feel like. And if I do, it's for something that. And this is interesting. I think if I do get into hot water, it's because I'm holding a mirror up to things that people don't really want to hear or see. Like, the thing that I've always talked about this. But the thing that got me. I think the closest to being canceled by my own audience that I ever have been was I did an episode back in. I think it was 2020. Like, end of 2020, about the, the problems with young men in our current society. And in looking back, I don't think I would change much about the episode, but maybe my tone could have been a bit different, but it was basically breaking down all the stats about young men, about the fact that young men are increasingly not getting driver's licenses, they're not moving out of their parents homes, they're not getting jobs, they're, you know, falling behind in terms of higher education and women are surpassing them. And the driver's license one was the craziest thing to me because that is such an indicator of a lack of, you know, a literal drive to have independence, a drive to be able to go take a girl out on a date and pick her up. And it's just wild to me. Um, so I basically, I did this episode and then I said, like, what, what's wrong? Like what is happening? And it was kind of a call to action of if you feel like you are falling into any of these traps or you're part of these statistics, like, I'm just letting you know you're not alone. But there also is room to, you know, you can change course, you can change your life. These are small things. Like, it's really not that hard to go get a driver's license. That is taking a huge step in your life. Like going and getting even, just like a part time job is a great thing to add to your life, especially as a young man, to encourage, you know, independence and responsibility. And I have never seen an angrier comment section. I mean, it was like I was heartbroken.

[Graham Allen]

Who's commenting? Men or women?

[Brett Cooper]

Men. It was all of the men. And they were.

[Graham Allen]

What were they saying?

[Brett Cooper]

They were, you know, like, you don't understand us. This is so. You're so awful. Why would you say this about us? You don't understand what it's like to be a man in 2022. I mean, so, so angry, which is so IR because I would also do episodes about that or like that about women talking about, you know, women moving increasingly to the left, women in their promiscuity, women leaning into feminism, whatever it might be, and they were all for it. And the women were all for it.

[Jack]

Maybe because it's coming from a woman. Whereas if you have a guy that's like hating on girls online, that every girl is like, oh my God, I'm not. You know what I mean?

[Brett Cooper]

That's true.

[Jack]

But then if it's a guy hitting, hating on guys like, oh, you're fat, you're this, you're that the guy's like, oh, okay, you're right.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah. So that was the part that I didn't even consider, because it's like, yeah, I do the show every day. I talk about these things, talk about, you know, societal ills and problems, and did not consider the fact that this was coming from a young woman. And also just, like, knowing, like, especially at the time, like, I wasn't publicly with anybody. I wasn't married. I think that I was somebody that a lot of these guys probably looked to and liked. And to have, like, this figure in your life, turn around and say, hey, if you don't have a driver's license, you should probably get your life together. So, yeah, that was, like. That was the most. Yeah, it was, like, heartbreak because I felt so bad. It was like, it was not my intention at all. Like, this was supposed to be, like, a rallying cry. And so I ended up. Because of what you're saying, I was like, I think that's probably why. So I called Chris Williamson, who's a good friend of mine, and I literally flew him out, and I had him be on the show, like, two days later and had him watch the episode. And I was like, do you think I should have, you know, said anything differently? And his take was also the same. He was like, no, I say these things all the time. But you're a woman.

[Graham Allen]

It's like women giving dating advice. I see the same things of, like, oh, a woman can't say what she wants because they don't know what they want. And. But, like, objectively, it's good advice. But I think just young men in particular have that wall up. And it's funny you said all of that, because Adam Carolla, who we just recently had on the podcast, the exact same thing as you, he says his kids have zero drive to get their driver's license. That's crazy, because they could stay home and just order an Uber if they need to get somewhere. They could order Uber Eats if they want food.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah.

[Graham Allen]

Everything they need is at the house.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah.

[Graham Allen]

If they want to hang out together, they could hang out, like, virtually and play video games together. It's wild. Yeah, it's crazy kids, these. They don't want their driver's license.

[Brett Cooper]

I know.

[Graham Allen]

I remember turning 15 and a half on the day, got my permit, and it's.

[Brett Cooper]

And even me as a woman, like, that was so. I just had never even. Like, there was nowhere in the world of, like, realm of possibilities that I would not get my driver's license. Like, you know, my 15th birthday, going out and getting my learner's permit or whatever it is. And I had friends in LA when I was still an actor out there. One of my best friends who was a year and a half older than me. Gosh, When I left LA, I was 19. She still didn't have a driver's license. She was 20 years old, lived at home, and her mom drove her to every audition, would drive her to. If she had worked at a, you know, coffee shop, what was her reason?

[Jack]

Would you ask her about this?

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah, she was just like, why would I get one? Like, my mom could drive me. And her mom was like, okay. Yeah, I mean, it was.

[Jack]

So is that her fault or is that her mom's fault?

[Brett Cooper]

I think it's probably both. I think it's like, because I say Both because at 20 years old, if you are, you know, you're not in college, but you've had a long career as a working actor, you make good money, you have a life. Like, she was dating, she was going to parties. Like, it was like her mom was, like, driving her to, like, house parties. And, like, I feel like there was something there where I was like, I didn't like, would you want your mom dropping you off at, like, a guy's house that you're, like, sort of hooking up with? Like, it's just, like, it's so.

[Graham Allen]

It's gonna be so awkward.

[Jack]

Put her up at, like, 8 in the morning, heels in her hand.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah. Like, that's just like. I feel like it's a. Like, that's just weird a little bit. Like, I, as a young person, I feel like, no, you should. But again, maybe that's me projecting on, you know, people who don't have that same drive, because it's a generational thing. So then it goes back to the parents. But I was like, don't you want that? And don't you want to be able to, like, go get in your car and drive yourself to your place of work or to a party or whatever and feel like an adult? And she's like, no. And it was just so wild to me. And then also it's for sure on the mom, because she was enabling it. Whereas my mom, if I had done that, she would have had, like, a boot kicking my ass to the curb, being like, I've been driving children around for 30 years. Like, you're my last one.

[Graham Allen]

Is she an only child, your friend?

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah, that's probably why.

[Jack]

Yeah, you're an only child, Graham?

[Graham Allen]

Yes. Takes one to know one.

[Jack]

When would you say is the last time you changed your mind in a big way. I'm sure a lot of you guys remember that last year we actually had none other than Jordan Peterson here on this podcast. And on top of that just being an incredible, incredible episode, it was a massive personal milestone for me because I've listened to him for several years and he has absolutely changed my life with his lectures. Well, I'm so excited to announce a very special update from that episode. We have actually partnered with Peterson Academy to sponsor today's episode.

[Graham Allen]

For those unaware, Peterson Academy is Jordan Peterson's online university and it's open for enrollment right now. If you love learning, want to study under world class professors, or have ever gained anything from Dr. Peterson's books, podcasts or lectures, then this platform's for you.

[Jack]

Every single month, Peterson Academy releases four new in depth eight hour university level courses taught by top experts across philosophy, history, psychology, science, business and more. These courses are seriously designed to keep you guys engaged and they offer optional testing to solidify your understanding. Plus, there's also an online community where you can connect with other curious and ambitious learners.

[Graham Allen]

And it gets even better because Peterson Academy is getting funding and so they've dropped the price from $599 down to $399 for the year for access to more than 40 courses with four new ones being added every single month. They also offer you a seven day money back guarantee. There's no reason not to try it.

[Jack]

Just go to petersonacademy.comich today to get started again. That is petersonacademy.comICH to start learning today. You guys will absolutely love it. Thank you so much to Peterson Academy for sponsoring this episode.

[Graham Allen]

Hey, by the way, I just want to say we film this episode for about four hours long and sometimes, unfortunately, with the YouTube algorithm, we can't post the entire thing. We have to edit certain parts down just for retention purposes and to maximize the reach it gets. So if you want to see the entire episode completely uncensored, the entire thing, no cuts whatsoever and no sponsors and no ads, the link to that is down below in the description. You could join as a member and every episode from here on out, you're going to be able to see the full thing in its entirety and it helps out the channel tremendously. So if you want to be a part of that and see all four hours of this episode, which was, it was a lot, the link is down below for you to join. And thank you so much.

[Jack]

When would you say is the last time you changed Your mind in a big way.

[Brett Cooper]

I think the biggest one was becoming pro life, because I wasn't. And I think I've had things where I've changed my perspective on things as I learn more information, as I have more experience, but nothing stands out. Like, becoming pro life was like, that's like a major, like, complete 180 shift. And I think that was just, you know, I was raised in, you know, splitting my time between Tennessee and Los Angeles, and I was, you know, in the Hollywood world. And I just saw one thing, and it. You know, I was raised by a mom who was very libertarian, and we never really talked about abortion, but it made sense to me. It's like, no, why would I want the government to have any control over my body? Like, our whole. I was raised to think that the government should not impact our personal lives. We want them as far away from us as possible. So this seems completely ridiculous. Like, I really only saw the issue from that perspective. I wasn't looking at it as a form of female empowerment or anything else. It was strictly like, man, that feels like overreach. That's ridiculous. Like, I can do whatever I want. And then my mind started to change when I went to college and I saw that it was more of a cultural issue than I had ever known. Like, I was in a sorority, and I met girls who were on their, like, third or fourth abortion, and it was just something I was like, yeah, I'm just gonna go. And I was like, wait, wait, wait. This is. This is not, like, safe, legal, and rare that I. You know, when I would read, like, think pieces from Reason magazine and things like that, that's not what they were talking about here. Like, this is a totally different issue when you get out into the real world and you look at young women and young men, but really I was faced with young women and also seeing the issue as a form of female empowerment and as this, like, feminist rallying cry that I can just go sleep with whoever I want with no repercussions and let a guy, like, use my body, and then I'll just go, you know, discard the consequences. And that was incredibly difficult for me to reconcile because, you know, I was raised with understanding the importance of personal responsibility like that. That's the number one thing in our house growing up. My mom likes to say that she raised us based on the principle of. I guess it's like, natural consequence. Parenting is what they call it, where you have to take responsibility for everything. Like, if you make a choice, you are going to deal with the consequences, good or bad. And that is your punishment. Basically. Like, she's not gonna go out of her way to punish you in some crazy way. It's like, no, you will just have to deal with the consequences of what you did. And I take that with me in my personal life outside of the home. I mean, it's just like that was. It grew outside of my childhood, obviously, because that was such an important principle that I was raised with. And so I was looking around the world that I was in, I was like, none of these women are taking responsibility. They're intentionally, like, going out to these frat parties and sleeping around and not being on birth control, not using a fricking condom that is so easy to acquire. And then they're just gonna go and get their third abortion and act like it's nothing. And I was like, okay, so now this is an issue of a lack of personal responsibility. And so that is the first thing that really started to change my mind. And of course, you can make the argument about rape and incest, but that makes up 1% of abortion cases. And so it's like we can have that as a totally separate conversation. And that's a very nu. I think the entire abortion conversation should be one that is had with a lot of grace and a lot of empathy. Because it's, you know, I think I see it as black and white, but it's also not really, because these are human lives and that are at stake. And people are often in really awful situations. And I think sometimes people on the right make it. Make it hard to have people on the right and the left make it hard to have those kinds of nuanced conversations. Cause they get so angry and emotional about this issue specifically. But that was the first thing that really started to change my mind because it was just a lack of responsibility. And then I went home and I started talking to my mom about it. And that's when I learned that my dad had wanted to have me aborted as a baby. And so that just completely blew it open. Because then suddenly I had like, a personal tie to it where I was like, oh, I couldn't. Like, there's a possibility that I couldn't be here. And I think that, you know, my life has such value and I'm so important to this family. And I'm. You're like. It was just like, so mind boggling to me that that could all just be taken away. And then it just continued spiraling to the point where it ended. So that was like the last biggest, like, complete 180 on a policy.

[Graham Allen]

So I'm curious. You talked about that on a recent podcast with Sean Ryan, and you were talking about the relationship you had with your dad and some of the things that you might want to tell him. Did your dad reach out to you after that podcast about those?

[Brett Cooper]

I don't think he's listened to it. I'm actually seeing him. I'm seeing him tomorrow, and we're gonna talk. I think we might talk about. I'm gonna ask him if he'll watch it.

[Graham Allen]

Interesting.

[Brett Cooper]

I don't know if he has watched it.

[Graham Allen]

I bet he has and maybe just wants to wait in person.

[Brett Cooper]

We'll see. We'll see.

[Graham Allen]

But, yeah, that's interesting.

[Brett Cooper]

That'll be interesting to see how it goes. Cause we've had kind of, like I said on Sean's show, we've had these conversations in, like, bits and pieces, but they have often been very fraught with emotion. They've come. They've come up because of a conflict that is happening. And so I'd really love to be able to have it where it's like, no, we're just, you know, sitting down and talking through it. Cause I think that there's something. I think there's something really special that happens when you become an adult. And I also said this on Sean's show, where you start to see your parents as humans, but where they also see you as an adult. And I think that was probably the last thing that needed to happen for my father and I, where it's like, I don't really need. Like, I don't physically need him for anything. There wasn't anything that he held over me, like, I don't need money. I don't need. I don't need to, you know, come home on spring break or whatever it might be. It's like, no. We are two fully autonomous, independent people who are gonna choose to have this relationship. And I think that that's so powerful. I think that's why marriage is so powerful, because you're. This is like the person you're choosing. This is not somebody, you know, a family that you were born into. It's not blood. But you are choosing this. And I kind of, in a way, with, you know, a relationship that's like my dad's and mine, where I'm making an active choice to try to fix this and make it better. But I think taking away that, you know, like, I need you or I'm dependent upon you, is really, really helpful in that regard. I think that's Like, I think that's the key to first setting boundaries in my mind, like, you know, why the boundaries have to be in place. And I think people are really great at setting boundaries, but it's hard to know when to kind of, like, remove the wall. And for me, it's like, have I done the work to put myself in a situation where I feel strong enough, secure enough, financially independent enough to be able to have this relationship and know that, yeah, it might not be perfect, but I can handle it and you can handle it. We're adults now, so I think that's kind of where we're at. So we'll be interested to see how the conversation goes.

[Graham Allen]

How do you prepare yourself to have an uncomfortable conversation like that? Are you nervous?

[Brett Cooper]

Not really.

[Graham Allen]

Really?

[Brett Cooper]

It's funny. I am really bad at confrontation. Confrontation is really hard for me. I'm, like, a major people pleaser, but I'm pretty good at, like, heart to hearts. So if it's, like, angry and volatile, oh, I'm like a wimp. I just melt. Like, there are situations where, even recently, like, things I've been talking about with my team where it's, you know, people have requested meetings or X, y, Z, and I'm like, that's not a room that I should be in. Like, I know that I will agree to something, say something that I don't actually want to do or stand behind because I am desperate to, like, make a situation better or fix something, and it's just like, I can't. I just know myself too well, and that's something I'm actively working on. And that might come from being a child actor in Hollywood and the fact that your entire job is to try to, like, mold yourself to please people and also with my family and how chaotic it was. But, yeah, confrontation is very, very hard. But I know myself, so. But I. In this kind of situation where it's like, you know, again, there's no volatile, like, there's nothing to be angry about now. It's like, now we're just gonna try to put the pieces together so we can have a great life together.

[Graham Allen]

What's something that you're hoping to understand from that conversation?

[Brett Cooper]

You know, one thing I would love to understand, I guess it's kind of what this is just a question I've always had, is like, what did my dad expect out of parenthood? Or what did he want? Because I was never really clear. To me, it was always very clear with my mom. She, like, always wanted to have kids, was very intentional about the Way that she parented is still very intentional with the way that she treats us today as adults. And I never really understood with my dad, like, it was never. He was in and out, you know, without. I always hate sort of questions like this because it's. They're good questions, but I'm always like, how much of it is my story to tell and how much is his story to tell? And that's very difficult. But as a kid, it's like you weren't always there, like, physically and emotionally, and it was more about you than it was about, like, the family unit and your children. And so were we the driving force, or was it something else? It's just like, that's always been a kind of a lingering question for me.

[Graham Allen]

Yeah, I think it could be scary to be like a parent.

[Brett Cooper]

Oh, I'm sure.

[Graham Allen]

And so I think that's probably a lot of it.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah. And, you know, their marriage was not great, and so they didn't have. I don't. I think. I don't think they had the right. I don't think he had the right partners to support him in that. I don't think my mom had the right partner, which obviously makes it hard. So there was just a myriad of factors, and he's become a much better partner post divorce and post us being adults, which is unfortunate that it didn't happen when we were, you know, younger. But it's still like, you know, life doesn't get easier when you grow up. Your family unit doesn't become suddenly less complicated. Like, we're still dealing with the fact that my brother is still a schizophrenic, and we deal with that every single day. My dad has become more and more involved in that, which is so incredible, because now my mom has another person that she can lean on when she has been the primary advocate and caregiver for years and years and years. And that kind of, like, fell on me in a way. And my dad wasn't involved, and now he is. And so I think it's, you know, your. Your family will continue evolving and changing and growing, and life is always full of challenges and things you have to grow from and overcome. And so it's like, if you can rebuild that foundation or just give it some. Give it some strength going into that. I think it's like, better late than never. And I'm grateful that it's happening now, at least.

[Jack]

I think the idea of taking control of your life and taking maximal responsibility for where you are is really one of the most defining factors and, like, whether or not you're somewhat successful in your own regard or not successful, how do you think you were able to, like, face those challenges when you were younger but still go towards the light side rather than towards the other way around? Like, what was the. Was it like. You said you faced consequences as a kid, so you were forced to take responsibility for where you were at?

[Brett Cooper]

I think that's a big part of it. Just because it was ingrained in my childhood and basically how I was disciplined and punished. So it just kind of became. Punished is a strong word, because I was never.

[Jack]

How was, like, a consequence that you paid?

[Brett Cooper]

Okay. I've never told this story. I once stole from a Goodwill. I went on, like, a shoplifting spree.

[Graham Allen]

How old are you?

[Brett Cooper]

Like, eight, probably. And I Funny.

[Graham Allen]

Like, this is a few months ago. Yeah.

[Jack]

Did you know how bad it was, what you were doing, or were you kind of just like, you know.

[Brett Cooper]

I mean, like, I sort of knew, but I was like, it was a Goodwill. Like, it's not that. Well, we always.

[Jack]

They give their money to charity if you're gonna take them anything.

[Brett Cooper]

I know, but I was like, it's so cheap. But we, like, always shopped at thrift stores growing up, and we still do, but my mom, like, furnished our entire house with, like, consignment stores and Craigslist, and Alex and I basically furnished our entire house also with, like, Facebook Marketplace. So it runs in the family now. But we would always go to Goodwill. And I don't know why I, like, slipped these things into my pocket. But there were, like, these big, like, cost pieces of, like, costume jewelry that were, like, sitting up on the counter. And I was just like, I'll take these. And my mom found out about it. And first of all, I think it really helps to have such a strong relationship with your kids and for your kids to respect the parents so much. Because the moment that my mom walked into my room and I saw it on her face, I was like. I'm like, I'm doomed. And I was so disappointed in myself. Cause I could see that I had disappointed her. But I had to, you know, call them and say, like, she gave me the phone number, and I had to call and say, I took necklaces from you. And then she had to drive me over, and I had to walk in by myself and say, I'm really sorry. And I was like, you know, shitting bricks, basically, of, like, terrified of, like, am I gonna go to jail? Or whatever it was. But I had to go in and be like, I'm really, really sorry. And do you, like, have that uncomfortable conversation with this goodwill, you know, manager who did not care was like, I'm being paid by the hour. Why do I care if you stole a couple necklaces? But for me as a kid, it was probably seven or eight. It was terrifying. And that's the example that always, like, sticks out. And I'm sure that there were more. There were. I don't remember what the consequence was, but there were things when I wouldn't be, oh, this was a big one. If I wasn't prepared, she wouldn't catch me. Basically, like I would do. I was in gymnastics. I did dance, I played the violin for a little bit, and I did, like, piano and singing. And I had to, you know, you have to study before all that or you have to work on your routine or you have to stretch. And we had, like, a little. My mom had made. Gotten all these mats for our garage and so I could, like, practice my gymnastics. And if I came unprepared, there was no, like, oh, she was really busy with school or whatever. It was like, yeah, sorry, you weren't prepared. So you have to go on stage and do your violin recital and you don't know the song. And it was like the natural consequence of that. There was no, like. She was like, yeah, you want to do this, you know, sing this song. You want to, you know, do this dance recital, whatever it may be. I'm not going to keep you in line to put you on a schedule to make sure that you're ready. You just have to do it. And if you don't, then you're going to get up on stage and you're going to be unprepared in front of people that you respect.

[Graham Allen]

Embarrassment is really, like, the best learning lesson out there.

[Brett Cooper]

Oh, yeah. And in both of those, I was embarrassed.

[Graham Allen]

Yeah.

[Brett Cooper]

And then you're embarrassed in front of your parent that you respect so much. And then I. Because it was so ingrained in me, I was so disappointed. Disappointed in myself because I was like, I know I can be better. I'm better than this. So that probably started it from young age. But also, I think, like, I don't know if it's a personality trait or something, but I was always. And it's so weird to say this, like, now, like, I look at young kids and I'm like, are you guys having thoughts that are like this? But I remember being super young, like, being somewhere in, like, the 8 to 11 range, being, like, just looking around at my family and my world and going, this is not normal. Like, this is very dysfunctional. And intentionally being like, this isn't what I want for my life. It was like, so clear how dysfunctional and how unhappy it was. I think I was really blessed to, you know, see great examples of families and, you know, parents who really loved each other and kids who seem to have really great home lives. And I was like, I want that. Like, I know it's out there. And so I think from a young age, I was kind of. I knew that my situation was not normal, and I didn't want it to contain. I never wanted to feel like that was normal. So I was always kind of thinking about breaking a cycle.

[Graham Allen]

Yeah, you unlocked a memory when you were talking about stealing stuff. Oh, no, I stole. I stole stuff. Something j. I still. You stole two?

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Graham Allen]

I was probably about six years old, and there was a place my mom would take me to go and get haircuts. And then after you get a haircut, being like six years old, the bowl cut, you know, the 90s bowl cut, they would have this basket of candy, and you get to take a piece of candy after you got the haircut. Well, I took a piece of candy and then no one was looking, and I grabbed another piece of candy. It was a lollipop. And I remember pulling it out, like, in the car. My mom was like, you grabbed another one? And I think I lied. I was like, no, I didn't. But I remember her taking me back in and apologizing to the person and putting it back. And I was so humiliated. That one, I was caught. But then also, I have to go and say sorry.

[Brett Cooper]

Oh, it's awesome.

[Graham Allen]

To them. And like, yeah, that was the last time I did that.

[Jack]

That's hilarious, because you haven't changed at all. Like, that didn't make an impact on Graham. Look, anytime we go anywhere, Graham's always trying to get more than whatever he paid for. Not in, like, a way of, like, overt stealing, like, thievery, but he will do that.

[Brett Cooper]

I negotiate the high of that second law.

[Graham Allen]

I just try to negotiate. Got a discount.

[Jack]

The second one's better than the first, cuz, you know, like, I got a.

[Graham Allen]

Discount recently on car repairs.

[Brett Cooper]

Okay.

[Graham Allen]

Macy's car went into the shop and I got like 300 bucks off just asking.

[Brett Cooper]

3. I don't know if this is, like, a male or female thing, so I don't know if you, like, negotiate. I hate negotiating. I hate it.

[Jack]

It makes me really anxious.

[Brett Cooper]

Really? Okay, so maybe. I don't know, but, like, My husband, it's like. Like I cannot get on the phone and do anything like that. Like, he just bought his little sister's new car for her. Like, she's buying it. But he called the dealership, got the whole deal negotiated down this thing. And he's not even being a, like playing hardball or anything. He's just asking very pointed questions. Like, hey, we got, you know, we got this offer from another dealership. And I would be like, no, I'm fine. I'm just.

[Jack]

It's a people pleaser.

[Brett Cooper]

Yes.

[Jack]

Because I associate with that too. Graham is absolutely not that type. And he will negotiate.

[Graham Allen]

I get such, like. Like a win from this. Like, I just unlocked another one. We replaced tires on the car, and the price was a price that I felt was a little high. And so I got the price down and I say, how about this? How about can we throw in at least a year warranty on the tires? And the guy behind the camera thought about it, yeah, you know what? I could do that. And so I got a discount on the tires, plus a one year warranty.

[Brett Cooper]

On the tires that would have never even paid.

[Graham Allen]

Asking. And this is like a few hundred bucks. And so when I look at the time, I'm like, I suppose spent five minutes on that call and I saved 200 bucks. That's a great ROI on the time. And you could do this across anything.

[Jack]

I think, I think that's good. And I think in a relationship, one of the people you have to have that. It's good to have one of them to be that person.

[Brett Cooper]

Because otherwise I'm mess. Yeah, that's why I have a really good lawyer to do that for me. Well, Alex will also do it for me, but that's why I have somebody else.

[Jack]

So if you get a steak or something and it comes out, you order it medium rare, it comes out like, you know, well done or medium well. Will you say something or do you.

[Brett Cooper]

No, I have Alex say it.

[Jack]

Yeah, okay. I'm the same one.

[Brett Cooper]

I'm just like, I can't.

[Jack]

Graham will come. Like, he'll sit down at a restaurant that's packed with people and it's a little chilly in here. Like, excuse me, waiter, can you bring it up a couple?

[Brett Cooper]

I love that, though.

[Graham Allen]

My big thing is the music. If the music in the restaurant's too loud, talks about it, I'll say, can you just turn down the music a little bit?

[Brett Cooper]

And it's like, you're the. You're like a good Karen. You're like somebody who's like helping like Karen's get such a bad rap, but you're like making the entire experience better.

[Graham Allen]

But here's the thing. I won't do it unilaterally. Like, if we're in a group group, I'll get the group consensus. Like, hey, is it just me or is the music kind of loud? Jack will be like, yeah, the music's a little loud. This music loud? Yeah. Okay, then I'll put together a case. It's not just like, I'm the only one. Like, are you cold? Yeah, you're cold, you're cold, you're cold.

[Brett Cooper]

Making the experience better for everyone.

[Graham Allen]

Exactly.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah.

[Graham Allen]

And then the music turns down.

[Brett Cooper]

No.

[Graham Allen]

So it works.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah. Okay. I love that you guys have Magic Mind because I used to take those. I think they were like, worked on comment section for a while as an advertiser.

[Graham Allen]

Oh, really?

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Graham Allen]

That's so cool.

[Brett Cooper]

They're great.

[Graham Allen]

You know what's funny? They sent us these like over a year ago. Like, not these ones.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah.

[Graham Allen]

But I started drinking them and I had them before every single podcast we would film. No joke. And then I accidentally put these in my backpack and we arrived somewhere and I was looking through. I'm like, oh, my gosh. I got Magic Mind. And so I gave them to Jack. And what's cool about these is that we could take them through TSA and they're below the liquid limit.

[Brett Cooper]

It really?

[Jack]

So.

[Graham Allen]

Yeah.

[Brett Cooper]

Oh, I didn't even think about that. That's actually sick.

[Graham Allen]

I. I stuff like six of these in my backpack. I take them everywhere we go, and we have them during every single podcast. And then they reached out afterwards like, can we sponsor your podcast? We're like, absolutely. So it's because of Magic Mind that we're able to go and like actually rent out a full on studio like this. The. The flights here for some reason were really expensive for Jack and I.

[Jack]

They were really expensive.

[Graham Allen]

They were actually to come text me.

[Jack]

He's like, oh, shoot, man. Like these.

[Graham Allen]

You know what was funny? I was actually trying to like, price was like taking a look at the prices and watching the prices.

[Brett Cooper]

That's.

[Graham Allen]

Magic Mind makes it possible. So if you guys want to try them out, the link is down below in the description. They're kind enough to sponsor the podcast and they taste amazing. It's like an energy, mental performance shot. It's how I'm able to stay like so focused on a bit of a lack of sleep. This. This would be my second one now that I've had today. So Again, the link is down below in the description. We got a special coupon code for you guys to get started. They're honestly delicious.

[Brett Cooper]

They actually are. That's. It's like shocking. You would expect something like that to be nasty. And they taste fantastic, actually. They really do.

[Graham Allen]

Well, we'll talk to them and we'll have response for you guys too.

[Jack]

What would you say is the most unfair criticism you've received since getting popular?

[Brett Cooper]

Just, it's like, oh, she's super hateful. Just because of my politics. Because that's only a comment. That's like the most common thing that I'll get from people who dislike me or disagree with me. And I think it's unfair because it's more of an ad hominen attack rather than looking at the actual issue that I'm presenting. And I also, in terms of people who are online talking about political and social things, I feel like I'm a lot more relaxed than a lot of people. And I also approach things with more of a common sense perspective. And I think I'm a lot more empathetic than many people online. Like where a lot of people are just trying to get clicks or whatever it might be or say the thing that is the most outlandish. Like, I really try to avoid doing that, especially with this new show where I have more time, like during the week to put the episodes together. And I have, you know, these are longer episodes than my original, like eight to ten minute things. Like, I'm really, really trying to be intentional about. Am I understanding every side of this issue? Am I talking to the right people? Am I offering a, you know, a broad overview of it so that I can really get to the crux of the issue and make sure that everybody, like, is heard where it's not just me blabbering on. And so I think that's always felt a bit unfair because it's. But also I don't think it's totally unfair because they don't know me. So it's hard for me to say that because it's like, like if you watch the video in full, like I'm not like what you see that somebody clipped on TikTok really isn't the entire picture of what I'm making. So in that way it kind of feels unfair. But that's also just the Internet and I can't expect people to watch every video. And also. Yeah, and they don't know me. They don't know what my intentions are. I can't make that, you know, totally Clear in every single second of everything that I do.

[Graham Allen]

Where do you draw the line between how much you're willing to share and be public about?

[Brett Cooper]

I think it is like a case by case basis because I just did this like 4 hour long interview where I basically shared everything there is to know about my childhood and that sort of thing. And it was more than I'd ever done before. I shared a lot more than I ever anticipated. And I had a conversation with Alex the night before. We were driving back from dinner at Sean's house, and we had a long conversation about my brother. Cause I was kind of giving Sean the update about what was going on with my brother Reid. And you know, he had just gotten to Tennessee and he was in this hospital and he had asked if we could talk about it. And I was like, I'll let you know in the morning. I was kind of going over all this again because of what I was saying of like, it's my story, but it also is somebody else's story. And it's really, like, that is really hard for me. Whereas I think if you are somebody who doesn't have a platform and you're not gonna be on a podcast with millions and millions of views, it's like, I'm just gonna tell my friend about what's going on and my personal life and what's happening with my brother. And the last time that I went and like, went to visiting hours and that's like, it just feels totally different than when you're like, sitting down and, you know it's going to be super public. And so, you know, I was talking with Alex about that and he was like, if there's a, you know, if there's any podcast to do it on, it's like, Sean Ryan for sure. Like, that's kind of what people, you know, go on and they, they trauma dump in a really beautiful way. But that was like talking about my dad's attempts. I never, like, I never thought I would ever talk about that ever. And that was something that was so, like, I felt protective over him, but I also felt shame from my side because it's just like another layer of this, like, story of like, oh, this kid. And she had all this crap going. Anyway, it was just very complicated. And I think it's something that I've carried with me more than I really thought. I genuinely never thought I would ever talk about it. And it just, you know, kind of spur of the moment came out and I texted my mom right after and I was like, hope nobody's angry. But I talked about this. So I think that it's case by case of, you know, what am I willing to share? And I also think it comes down to, like, how important is it? Like, I felt like in the moment, talking about my dad's attempt was important because it was something I hadn't shared before. And it's also something that I carried a deep sense of again. It was like shame and confusion over. I felt very lonely. I'd never, I didn't know anybody else who had had anything like that. But I know that there are people who have gone through that and whose parents have actually been successful in there. It's a hard, horrible way to say that, but have actually committed. And it's incredibly. It's like an awful club to be in. And it's like, if I could help somebody by sharing that, if I could maybe make somebody feel less alone, then there's a positive to it. But it's like, what's the positive of just like letting a reporter into my house, I guess. And so if I think that it can do some good and shed light on an important issue or make people feel less alone, then I will absolutely talk about it with as much grace and, you know, protecting the people that I want to protect. But if it, you know, if that same outcome can be achieved without me exposing people in my life or exposing a bunch of, like, personal things, then.

[Graham Allen]

Yeah, what were some of the letters you received or the reception from Open.

[Brett Cooper]

About that the most amazing ones were?

[Graham Allen]

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[Graham Allen]

The offer, by the way, is for new US Customers with minimum financial commitment. See if you qualify for half [e-mail] again. Oracle.comiced with the link down below in the description. Thank you so much Oracle for sponsoring this episode. What were some of the letters you received or the reception from from about that?

[Brett Cooper]

The most amazing ones were. I'll tear up talking about this. I got two emails from kids who went to high school with my brothers who just had no idea who I was. Didn't know that I had a show, but like listened to Sean and they found my manager's email and sent me these long notes about the impact that my brothers had made on their lives. And it came at like the perfect time because my mom has been really kind of going through it at the moment and we're having to make some hard decisions about my brother, the surviving twin, and to get these letters from these young men who knew them, who still think about David and the impact that his death had on them and that his life had on them and being worried about Reid and, you know, saying he was so wonderful and we had so many great memories together. And we were on this team together. Like, that was so, so special. And I had, you know, my biggest fear is that they're forgotten. And because their lives, their lives are important and they did make an impact. And as everybody's lives move on, you can't expect that everybody's lives, like, continue to revolve around these people that are so important to you. And even though it's like my life still kind of does revolve around them in a lot of ways, I think about both of them every single day. It's really, really beautiful and healing to have people come out of the woodwork and say, I still think about this them, they've still made an impact. I tell people stories about them. It's like that's the most special thing. That's all you can hope for. So that was wonderful because I, especially with David, I never want anybody to, you know, forget his name. So that was a big part of it. And I've just gotten so many dms from people who are in similar situations but. And some that are even worse, especially with family members with severe mental illness who just feel so stuck.

[Graham Allen]

Stuck.

[Brett Cooper]

And I don't feel like my family is fully stuck. But the system is really not set up to help people like my brother succeed. And it's not set up to help the family succeed at all. And again, kind of being on the other side of it, it was very validating, I think for people who listen to Sean's interview and for then me to receive DMs like this, for people to say, like, we're also in the trenches, like, it's not just you. We also have no idea what to do with long term care. Care. There are no long term care options for, you know, people with schizophrenia or, you know, serious mental health issues where they cannot be in the home.

[Graham Allen]

Yeah, for mental health. How would you change the system?

[Brett Cooper]

The first thing that I would do if I was in charge was, would be to change the, the diet and lifestyle of patients like my brother who are in mental health facilities and treatment centers where, you know, I've been doing a lot of research recently trying to figure out what options are available to us as family and to him. And there's some great ones and there's like private ones, they're very expensive. And you look at all these things and everything that they offer and there's nothing about nutrition or lifestyle. Meanwhile, you have all of these studies that are coming out that have been coming out for years. But it's like people are just now catching on about the impact of sugar and glucose on the brain, of the gut brain connection, of the fact that. And we know anecdotally people who have had major success in completely changing their diets and being able to control their schizophrenic symptoms, their bipolar symptoms. And you go into these hospitals, and it's like, I'll go visit my. My brother. And we sit down in this, like, very cold, sterile, you know, cafeteria. Also. The environment of these hospitals, it's literally like a jail. And it's, you know, kind of has to be that way in some cases, because there's a lot of people who are a danger to society. And so it's. It's a locked facility. Um, but it's incredibly sterile. I can't hug my brother when I. It's. I'm not in this facility specifically. I can't. I'm not allowed to hug. You can't touch. And it's like when they turn their back. Like, I was there with a nurse a couple of weeks ago, and she was like, I'm. You know, you're not supposed to hug, but she would, like, turn around and walked out the room. So I was able to give him a hug, but it's so cold. And so that's a whole. But we, like, back to the food part. We sit down and we were having this conversation, and they'll bring us some food, like, do you want any snacks? And they'll bring, like, a soda and a bag of honey grams. And I'm like, reid, what are you eating in here? And it's like, awful, awful hospital food. And it's like, you have this. It's not. You have this incredible, unfortunate opportunity where it's like, somebody like my brother, who might be on, like, a 5150 hold, which is a. Like, they did not check themselves in. They were brought in by the police. You have an incredible opportunity where they can't leave to try to make some change in their lifestyle, whether that is working out, if there is an area where they can go take a walk or even if it's just, hey, we're not going to give you honey grams. We're going to make sure that you are eating a high protein, you know, lower carb diet that, you know, hopefully we can clean up your, you know, your gut health, have some kombucha or, you know, something. There's nothing. And it's like, my brother has. He was in. He was in a hospital in Idaho for three Years on an involuntary told. And we weren't able to see him at all throughout that three year period because it was kind of on the tail end of COVID They had really, really strict regulations. No visitors allowed. So he was in this awful, awful environment. That's where he went. Nonverbal. He doesn't speak anymore. So sometime in that three years in this, you know, I'm grateful that he was safe, but it definitely was not the most nourishing environment. He stopped speaking. But he was there for three years and nothing changed. It only got worse.

[Graham Allen]

Do they have him in isolation?

[Brett Cooper]

It's very isolated. Yeah. They have like, they'll have a roommate and that kind of thing. Yeah.

[Graham Allen]

If that's the point where he stops speaking, there's got to be something there.

[Jack]

That seems like it would not like even hold it at the same level. But it would get worse. Yes. If you can't even hug him, it makes them.

[Brett Cooper]

Not only he feels inhuman, right? Yes.

[Jack]

It makes them feel like crazy.

[Graham Allen]

But the diet too, like serving sodas, it seems like that's the easiest thing to fix. Serve water.

[Brett Cooper]

Yes.

[Graham Allen]

And that's cheaper than soda.

[Brett Cooper]

I mean, it feels so common sense of like, maybe it won't fix all the problems, but it could certainly help them feel a little better. I mean, just like if I go out and, you know, I have a margarita and I have a big thing of chips and queso, and I get like, get a skillet cookie at the end of the night, I feel like crap the next morning. We all do. Your brain feels icky and it's like, imagine already dealing with the weight of a serious mental illness. And you feel like that 247 with the addition of the crap food that they're feeding you. It's just, it's appalling because you have this again. You had three years with my brother and he went backwards, I guess. Like, what does a society do we do with individuals who, like, the system is not actually trying to rehabilitate. And again, the asylum system was not perfect, but there was a long term solution. And so I think that, I mean, that is the reason why homelessness is the way that it is across the country. And, you know, Donald Trump has talked about this in like, passing of like, we need to bring back some sort of system to help clean up our streets. Because in my experience of, you know, Reid was homeless for many years of going out and finding him and being with him and engaging with his homeless community. They're not like, like down on their luck trying to get a Job. Like those people, they get to a homeless shelter, they get a room, they get a job, and the. They take all of the resources and they put them to getting their life back on track. The majority of the people that Reid was around that I interacted with, that we engaged with on this, like, entire weird journey of kind of him being homeless and I guess of just my adolescence, they all were basically choosing to be homeless because they made a lot of money from the government, because it was easier to get drugs and because they were crazy and didn't wanna have a job or couldn't have a job and. Or they were like too mentally ill to be accepted into homeless, like, shelters.

[Graham Allen]

Yeah. That's been our experience in Los Angeles. We're close by Venice.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah.

[Graham Allen]

And just a lot of what we saw was not people down on their luck. I'm sure that existed. And it's weird because I. I did a lot of research because I saw the problem is getting worse. And the studies showed that a lot of these people are down on their luck.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah.

[Graham Allen]

And the studies say that it's because rental prices are too high and rent control isn't protective enough and it's kicking people out. But What I've seen, 90 plus percent, is more mental health, drug related issues.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah.

[Graham Allen]

And I don't know what came first, if it, if it was drugs and then mental health or mental health, which.

[Brett Cooper]

A lot of it. Sides. Yeah.

[Graham Allen]

But that's what I saw. And a lot of the people just aren't in the mental capacity to ever work to get into homeless shelters to try to pull themselves up.

[Brett Cooper]

They can't really.

[Graham Allen]

And they're just kind of left on.

[Brett Cooper]

The street in a. In a halfway house.

[Graham Allen]

Right.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah. Like, it's. My brother has been able to be in halfway house situations where it's like he gets money from the government and that he uses that to pay his rent. And there will be like, a person that is there to help him drive around and get groceries and take you to your doctor's appointment. And they like, check on you and make sure you're good and you're there. But there are times when he has not even been fit enough to be in that environment. And where they've like, all right, Reed, here's your new room. And then it's like, okay, no, he's not there yet. It's a very nonpartisan issue that I wish was talked about more. And like, I see, like, as you were talking about the studies, like, the ACLU is so against bringing back any kind of, like, long term care, because they're like, no, we need, like, community support and rental prices need to go down. But I'm like, again, you're missing, like, the crux of the issue. So, yeah, I hope that there can be some change. I'm, you know, talking to some folks about, like, what hopefully I could do with this platform, but it's very hard. It impacts, obviously, millions and millions of people. So I don't even know what the. What the real solution is. But what's happening now is not working. And it's not working for families. It's not working for the men and women that are in these situations. And it's certainly not working for our cities based on what we're seeing on the streets. I mean, it's just like. Like a. A desolate, desolate system.

[Graham Allen]

Is there anything that you've regretted being so open about or that you look back on and just think, I wish I didn't say that, or I wish I didn't share this part of myself?

[Brett Cooper]

I don't think so. I think even if there are things where people have had opinions on them or it's like, it's still my life.

[Graham Allen]

Yeah.

[Brett Cooper]

And it hasn't made a huge impact on me. I've often gone back and forth about. And we did prior to doing this, but, like, of Alex having any kind of, like, public anything. And we ended up. And I'm glad that we did, because I think hiding it only makes, you know, people don't know anything that they want to. It was just hard for him because people were, like, finding out things about him and looking into his family and that kind of stuff.

[Graham Allen]

Did people find it? Because I remember you posted a photo. I think you put like a. A, like an emoji over his face or there was, like, you guys hugging, but it was like the back of his.

[Brett Cooper]

It was. When we got engaged, it was the first time I had ever talked about ever being in a relationship or even, like, showed remotely who he was. And it was just the back of his head. And I was like. Cause I think people should know that. I'm like, you're seeing ring on my finger. I can engage. And then we kind of had six months of figuring out whether he wanted his face to be shown or whether he wanted to be talked about.

[Graham Allen]

Did people guess it right in the beginning? Because I saw, like, a lot of the comments. I think it's this person they'd start linking to.

[Brett Cooper]

Profiles.

[Graham Allen]

Detective.

[Brett Cooper]

There were a couple people who, like, through Reddit, had, like, known somebody who knew me and Said something there. And they were like, okay, I'm looking at the back of his head and I could see this tagged photo. This guy looks like. I mean, it was just a whole thing. And so that was.

[Graham Allen]

So a few people did get it, right.

[Brett Cooper]

Oh, yeah, yeah. And I think that was one of the reasons where I was like, okay. And Alex and I had a conversation and. And I was like, they're gonna find out who you are anyway. And so you just tell me what you wanna do. And he was like, yeah, I don't care, like, as long as you're protected. That was his. Like, main thing is, like, as long as you are safe and our family is safe, like, I'll do whatever needs to be. But it was like, I never wanted to, like, thrust that upon him and be like, here's my new boyfriend. Like, take a picture.

[Graham Allen]

Cause that's like, any part of you that thought maybe I should just leave this separate and never mention it.

[Brett Cooper]

There was, but I didn't feel like that was. I didn't feel like that was super genuine because I share so much else. Like, even on comment section, which was like a new show, I think the reason why it kind of worked and was different than a lot of other, like, newsy shows was because it wasn't just that I was reading headlines and going through stories, but I was relating it to things in my life. I was sharing stories of. Oh, I had this experience. I talked very openly and I felt like if I just completely hide. Hide this and close it off. And especially with being. I think that might be easier for older generations or people that are more in, like, the news, corporate media, where you kind of just know them as, you know, the woman that you see on your tv, but you don't know anything about your personal life. But it's like, I had a huge social media following. People would. I would post things on my personal life on Instagram. I would share these personal stories on YouTube. It's like, that feels like a very, Like a very. Just weird thing to hide. I didn't feel like. Didn't feel right to me because it was gonna. This was obviously impacting a lot of, you know, the moves that I would be making and the things that I believe and the things that were happening in my life. And it was like, what if one day I just pop up and I'm pregnant? People are like, what happened there? Like, it's just crazy. So the thought did cross my mind because it's definitely easier and you wanna protect somebody that you love. And I was like, I've chosen to be somebody that's online. But you didn't. And so, I mean, he's kind of choosing by marrying me. But this wasn't your end. All, be all. And that's one of the reasons why I love him, is because he's so private.

[Graham Allen]

So I'm curious because I see some of the comments, and it seems like a lot of guys have Internet crushes on you. Did that lead to a weird dynamic between you and your now husband?

[Brett Cooper]

Not at all. Because he was, I think, unthreatened. He was just like, that's fine. But, yeah, I'm asked about that a lot, and, you know, I'm not somebody who feeds into it. I think that it would be a very different conversation if I was a girl who, like, posted bikini photos all the time and was on, like, OnlyFans or whatever it is. But I. It's like, it's just being a girl on the Internet and people are gonna think what they're gonna think, and that's fine. And I view or posting the, like, sad GIFs every time I post any picture. Like, that's fine. I laugh about it. I know he looked at it as just kind of like, that's really sweet. That's, like, great. And he's not threatened by it at all. He's, like, the most, like, understated, secure, unflappable man I've ever met.

[Jack]

Would you say that's boosted your confidence overall, like, all of those comments and the memes and everything? Or would you say it's been an overall negative thing?

[Brett Cooper]

Oh, gosh, I think it's been kind of neutral because it just overwhelmed me at first. Like, when I saw that, I was like, oh. I just. I don't know. I don't put myself out there that way. I don't even, like, think of myself as any kind of. I don't know if it's weird to think of yourself in some kind of like. Like, romantic or like, oh, people like you away. Like, it's, like, very weird. And so they just, like, crack me up, I guess. But, yeah, it's not a. The negative part of it comes when there's, like, people that are, like, too obsessed, and then it becomes, like, physical, and you encounter it in your real life, and then it's like, okay, well, then, have you.

[Graham Allen]

Have you encountered that.

[Brett Cooper]

Yes.

[Graham Allen]

What's been the experience?

[Brett Cooper]

Thankfully, it's few and far between, but. And I've not had to have, like, physical altercations or that kind of thing, but I do have, as, I think most especially, like, women in the public eye. Like, I've had a few stalkers and that kind of thing, and men who have, like, moved to Nashville.

[Graham Allen]

Are you serious?

[Brett Cooper]

Yes. Yeah. And I have a great team, and thankfully, I'm able to, like, holy crap. Have people who are really good at what they do, who, you know, make sure that I'm protected. But I think that that's where. When it crosses the line of, like, like, oh, that's really sweet. You like me and, you know, like, oh, I want a wife like Brett. I want a girl like Brett. I'm like, that's great. That's really sweet. I hope you find them. Like, that's awesome. But when it crosses the line of, like, oh, this is. The emails are threatening, or this is odd, and why are you following my friends around? Like, thankfully, they have not, like, gotten to me, but have, like, gotten people close to me, and that's something. It was interesting. I was asked about that recently for a piece, and the reporter was asking if that was, like, if it had become normal. It's like, no, that's not normal. Like, you become accustomed to it, and you become. I guess accustomed is not even the right word, but you kind of become prepared, and you have, like, a system in place, and it's like. It's not shocking to me, but I never want that to be normal. I never. I think it's a very weird, like, wrinkle in the human experience to have so many eyes on you and to, like, be thinking about that. And I never want it to be something that, like, oh, yeah, stalker, whatever. It's like, no, that's never. That's, like, objectively fending them off. Um, but, yeah, so that's just kind of a. It unfortunately comes with the territory. But for, like. For 99% of the time, like, I genuinely. I have the most incredible, like, community of people who watch my show, who engage with my content. Like, they're so smart, they're so kind. They care so much about. Personal development is, like, the biggest thing that I see. Like, the questions that I get are not questions about, like, what are you wearing? Or, like, what do you use to do your hair? Like, I'll get, like, one girl ask that if I, like, she sees me at an event or something like that, or even, like, asking to, like, date me or whatever it is. They're, you know, they're emotional questions. They're like, I'm trying to figure out what I want to do with my life, and I have these four Paths that are ahead of me. Like, I could just go work for my family's company. I could go intern here. I could go to a trade school. I could opt out of college, whatever it is. And I'm really struggling. It's, like, intense things that they are. That a lot of young people are kind of muddling through and figuring out. And, like, those are the big questions.

[Graham Allen]

That I. I would love to see you give business advice where people could call in. In their 20s.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah.

[Graham Allen]

And just say, I have these paths, just like you said. Should I do this business or this business? I want to hear you just break it apart.

[Brett Cooper]

That's what I do sometimes. So I was obsessed with Dear Abby growing up, and that was, like, the column in the newspaper. And so I have something on my, like, subscriber platform. It's called Cooper Confidential, where it's called Dear Brat. And so people send in questions, and then I, like, pick five or six of them, and people can upvote and downvote what they want to hear. And I go through. And we basically do that. And they range from, like, career advice and school advice to, like, family things. I think I mentioned this one on the Sean interview, but there was a girl who. I think the last two really meaningful ones were. There was a young woman whose grandfather had. Has Parkinson's, and he had, like, lashed out at her and had physically hurt her by accident. And she kind of knows a little bit of my story about my brother. And obviously, if you have ever met anybody with schizophrenia, there are. You know, there are things that can happen, and especially when they are in a psychotic state. And she was like, how do you separate, like, loving this person for who you know they are with kind of who they are right now and setting boundaries, keeping yourself safe? And she was like, I don't. She's, like, 15 years old. She was like, I don't know how to. And it was a very insightful question to be able to, like, word it in that way. And she was like, I want to be able to. My grandfather lives, like, near me, and my mom is a caretaker for him, and I see him all the time. But now he's, you know, getting physical, and we're having to bring in extra care, and there are boundaries that are being set. And how. Like, how are you able to still love somebody and care for them and be, like. Be the same person for them that you always have been while having this in the back of your head? And it's a very hard question to answer. And it's really. She Kind of like answered it for herself. If you just really have to separate it and know that, you know, the person that you love and care for, they're still in there, but it's not who they are anymore. And so you kind of have to treat the situation as such. You don't have to treat them as such, but you just have to treat the situation with an air of caution. But that was a really meaningful and insightful question. I had another young man write in and say, like, like, you know, I'm somebody who everybody has always like, basically told me I'm gay and I'm more feminine. And this guy's like, in his 20s. He was like, I was raised as a Christian, but because everybody told me I was gay and that maybe I should even, that maybe I was actually trans, I've kind of drifted away. But he was like, I am, you know, I love my faith and I'm more of like a common sense conservative. But I feel like I don't fit in there because I look at, you know, right wing accounts on X who are perpetrating one version of masculinity and I don't fit into that. But I, I am not gay. And he was like, am I ever gonna, like, meet a woman? Like, what do I. Like, what do I do? It was just this very. It was like a guy that truly, like, felt stuck in the middle of like this kind of weird culture war and this war of identities. And my answer was as simple as, like, you know, I think you, everybody at some point in their life needs to hear that. It's like no human being is the same. Like, we're all very, very different. And the way you present or the way your personality might be perceived by people does not determine who you're attracted to or what your values are. And if, you know, you are surrounded by people who are projecting that on you, those aren't good people to be around anyway because they don't understand you at your core. And I think that's a huge reason for why we see such a rise in, you know, gender confusion. And young people, especially young women, who feel so out of place to start. I mean, that's how I felt going through puberty. I felt so out of my body and so weird that I, like, tried to be as butch as possible. Like, I feel like if I didn't have the mom that I had in the community that I did, I would definitely be somebody who would feel like, am I like, lesbian? Am I like, trans? Like, I don't fit in. It Like, I'm so. I was so uncomfortable being a woman at, like, 14 years old. And when you have people who just slap identities on you and you're like, oh, well, if you dress like that, then you're this. If you don't feel like this way as a woman, then you're that. Um, and so it's like, that kind of nuance is hard, but it's like, those are hard questions. Those are deep things that people are muddling through. Uh, and I'm really grateful that they feel comfortable that there's, like, a space where they can ask those questions, and we try to, like, work through them together because it's like, I don't know everything. I'm 23 years old. I've been around the block a couple of times, but I know everything. But I think it's sometimes as simple as just kind of, like, breaking down the question and hopefully trying to offer some clarity. And even if it's just, like, empowerment and affirmation of, like, you're on the right path, I know it might seem crazy right now, and it might seem alienating. Like, you're obviously, by asking these questions, you're in. You're on the right path. Like, you're in tune with what you know to be true or what you want for your life, but you might just need somebody, you know, outside of your community or your family or this, like, crazy weird, like, bubble social media to say, like, you're doing okay.

[Graham Allen]

So.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah, but that's really, really special. It's just a. It's just a really great community. So my whole point in saying all of that is, like, 99% of all the interactions are so positive. They're so great. And it, like, makes me love what I do because I get to, you know, they make me better. They make. I always say they, you know, by doing the work that I do in the show and meeting people in real life or reading the comments and getting these questions, it makes me more articulate, it makes me more thoughtful. I think I've become so much more empathetic by having a show every day and talking about my values and going through news stories and dealing with, you know, cultural issues people are debating. So it makes me better. I hope it, you know, impacts their life in a positive way. So it's like, I got 99% of the time and I have 1% stock.

[Graham Allen]

So speaking with so many people, do you think dating now, just from what you've seen, is harder, or are people just getting too emotionally weak?

[Brett Cooper]

I think it's probably a mix of a lot of those factors. I think dating is objectively harder because the social norms have changed. Where it's like. And I always say this too. Gen Z wasn't taught how to date. Like, I don't know what your first experience was, like, asking a girl out or dating, but I got asked out for the first time. My first few dating experiences were all digital, Snapchat, Instagram, dm. Joining my sorority at college and being like, why are you not on Hinge? You need to be on, like, Tinder and Hinge. And then, like, had my. Met my first boyfriend on Hinge, and I was only asked out in person. Alex was like, he's the only one that I remember. And I don't. I want to make sure I'm not just saying that because I married him. But no, I had one other guy asked out in person. Everything else was like, text. Digital started, like, I. The art of flirting of, like, sending signals, of making, like, women who, like, won't fricking make eye contact or smile and, like, show a guy that they're interested. And then men who. Obviously, it's a scary time to just go up and ask woman out, especially if she's not giving you signals. And it's already hard to be a guy asking somebody out. But it's like that little, like, dance of dating. I feel like Gen Z just didn't get. When you get. So what's the move?

[Graham Allen]

Is it just to get a number? And then once you get a number, then it's text or like, I guess the numbers. It's Instagram or Snapchat. And then it's like, hey, you want to meet up? Is that the.

[Brett Cooper]

So my recommendation is. Is it is. So it's not even like, some new innovative thing. It's to be in, like, organized groups. Because I think for a lot of people, there's a social barrier of, like, comfortability of asking somebody out or approaching for the first number or even, like, sparking a conversation because they're like, I don't know this person. It's very uncomfortable to just go up to somebody in a bar or Home Depot. I would get asked out in, like, Home Depot when, you know, before I was. I mean, even. So I got asked out on a Home Depot like, six months ago. But that's, like, a bit weird. Like, and I say this to somebody who has, like, a very high tolerance. Like, I don't go around saying people are, like, creeps or whatever, but I mean, like, a random guy, like, kind of follow you through the store and.

[Graham Allen]

Be like, did he see the ring on the finger?

[Brett Cooper]

Or he don't know if he didn't, like, see it doesn't matter.

[Jack]

What did he say?

[Brett Cooper]

This one wanted my Snapchat so that we could go out. And I was like, you're, like, 30 years old.

[Graham Allen]

Did you know who you were?

[Brett Cooper]

I don't think so. He didn't act like it.

[Graham Allen]

Okay.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah, but it's like that. And that's objectively, like, I feel for the guy. Cause that's, like, that's hard to do regardless, to just, like, go up to a random girl. But it's also, like, weird for the girl. And so to make the situation easier for this, like, digitally stunted couple of generations where everybody's online and the landscape is really weird. It's like, Chris Williamson talks about this a lot, but it's like, run clubs and pickleball clubs have become like the new dating apps, basically. And the reason why is because you're now, now going to a place regularly with a semi regular group of people. Like, you're gonna see the same people week over week. And so you can spark up a conversation with very, very low stakes of like, oh, hey, you know, what are you listening to? I think whatever.

[Graham Allen]

Higher stakes. Because you see them every week and you're in the same group and, you know.

[Jack]

Well, I think she's saying not in, like, a manner of hitting on them, but in a manner of just, like, opening up dialogue.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah, I think I'm just, like, starting the conversation because there's so many, like, okay, you have to think about. About how unsocialized people are right now. Especially coming on the heels of COVID where it's like, I can't even go and talk to somebody in person. So if you just to get off the app of just, like, make a friend of just, like, being comfortable sparking up conversation so that you get in the habit of doing that. And then if you have a conversation for three or four weeks, see, you know, or am I getting good signals? Do I know if she's single? Do I know if he's interested? Whatever it is. And then it creates an environment that's like, okay, we can go out. And then it's also, I think, look stakes, because it's a run club. You can find another run club. Like, it's not like it's at work.

[Graham Allen]

Okay.

[Brett Cooper]

Those are, like, high stakes. Alex and I dated when we worked at the same place. And that's like, I was always very against that, but I kind of like knew I was going to marry him immediately, so I felt okay with it. But in those environments it is, it feels very low stake and then, but it creates the like the social foundation to be able to have those conversations and then like move to like flirting and asking out and it feels less precarious for the man and the woman, in my opinion. Yeah.

[Graham Allen]

So why do you think it is? A lot of women say they want a traditional man, but they will reject those traditional values. Now before we go into that, you gotta ask yourself the question, what does the future hold for business? Because if you ask nine different experts, you're gonna get 10 different answers from a bull market, a bear market. Rates are staying the same, they're going down. Be very helpful to have a crystal ball at the this point, but until that happens, over 41,000 businesses have already future proofed their business with their sponsor NetSuite by Oracle. They are the number one cloud ERP, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory and HR into one fluid platform. That's because with one unified business management suite, there's one source of truth giving you the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. Plus, with real time insights and forecasting, you're peering into the future with actionable data.

[Brett Cooper]

Data.

[Graham Allen]

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[Brett Cooper]

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[Graham Allen]

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[Jack]

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[Graham Allen]

Thank you so much, Range Rover Sport, for sponsoring this episode. Yeah. So why do you think it is? A lot of women say they want a traditional man, but they will reject those traditional values. Why do you think that is?

[Brett Cooper]

Women are confused. I don't know. It's like, I try to muddle through all the female problems. I think that there's something innate in women. Obviously, it's biological to want a guy to care for you and be able to protect, provide. I don't even mean, like, financially provide, but just, like that, emotional security. And so I think women seek that out whether they really know it or not. But then I think that they aren't totally prepared for what comes with getting a more traditional guy. Like, especially when you find, like, a really traditional guy who's like, no, I, like, would love for you to stay home with the kids. And, like, I don't really want you to be posting your ass on social media or whatever it is. Like, there are just kind of standards, I think, that come with that. Like, if you're gonna date, like, a player guy who isn't really thinking about marriage, who doesn't really care if you stay home with the kids or whatever it is, it's probably fine if you guys are both out doing your thing and posting whatever you want to post and talking with whoever. But when you get into those situations where you have, like, a man with standards or a woman with standards, I think you either have to rise and meet those standards and work together, or it's just never going to work. So I think that might be part of it. But I also think women are, again, there's this innate desire, and then there is what women are taught socially and what women talk about in their, like, circles of, like, I want to be this boss babe, and I don't need no man. Oh, yeah. Men are scum. I mean, if you heard what women, like, talk about just in their little groups, it's crazy. And so I think that there is. They want one thing, and then they're presented and encouraged in another way. And so I think it makes it very confusing and not to, like, completely, like, take the blame off of them. But I think it's a Difficult thing to muddle through, especially in this society right now and with men and women being so split ideologically, where there was a really interesting CNN interview that was going viral on X yesterday where this woman was doing a piece and she only dated like alt right men for a year. And then she did an interview about it, about everything that she learned.

[Jack]

Whoa.

[Brett Cooper]

Yes.

[Jack]

Wait, so she did. She set out.

[Brett Cooper]

Yes.

[Jack]

To only date out, right?

[Brett Cooper]

Yes.

[Jack]

So as a result, she like kind of, in a sense deceived.

[Brett Cooper]

Yes.

[Jack]

All of these guys.

[Brett Cooper]

Yes.

[Graham Allen]

How long did she date him? For like a month.

[Brett Cooper]

It was like. Yeah, a couple, like a month here. She would go on a couple dates here. Like there was no, like serious relationship.

[Graham Allen]

But it was just like going out. Okay.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah, she's just going out. She's dating.

[Jack]

And how does she determine if they're all right?

[Brett Cooper]

Like based on their social media profiles and asking them. Like she would ask about their politics and that kind of stuff, but you could tell she like intentionally sought out out, like not just your average like right leaning guy on social whatever it is, but like extreme right. Whatever.

[Graham Allen]

Interesting. Are we talking like the, the Andrew Tate?

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah, like that kind of thing. Yeah. Or. Yeah, or like Nick Fuentes fans, like that kind of stuff. Like she like, really. And then the entire interview was like, oh, they're so awful. They took me to political meetings. It was all about. Anyway, it was such a. It was like she had like sort of found herself in this like weird needle niche political faction that is like not reality at all. That is not just like most normal guys. Like most of the, you know, Alex has a pretty like, diverse group of friends, but of all of the like conservative, more right leaning guys that we're friends with that he knows from college, they're so normal. Like you, like, they're not walking around with like huge Trump hats on or going to like political, like they're lovely, wonderful, normal guys. And she did not find any of those. I don't think she was seeking them out with the way she spoke about them even like, even like removing her like, feelings about the alt. Right, whatever. But she was just so disgusted by every part of them. And I think that that's really encouraged in women right now. And they're so disgusted by like the male like species, like moving more. Right. And so I think that divide isn't helping at all where now women are like turning their nose up at more traditional guys, even though they know that they like want that kind of like protection and security. So really it's just basically just Chaos. And I think that's a huge reason for why the dating landscape is such a mess.

[Graham Allen]

You know what's interesting? I saw on Twitter this triggered a lot of people, okay, there was marriage advice. And it was some lady who was giving advice and just said to all the women out there who are in unhappy marriages, all you need to do is when your husband gets home, get home early, Charlie, cook them a steak and that's it. Yeah, that's all it'll take and your marriage is gonna change around. And it's interesting to see the comments. All the guys are like, oh my gosh, this would be it. When I get home, I just wanna relax for an hour and then I have all this to do list and these things. And if I just got that all the women were saying, absolutely not, I would do that. My husband wouldn't appreciate it or he would just find something to, to, to talk about. It's, it's. What are your thoughts on something like that?

[Brett Cooper]

Like that it feels very normal to me. That's because that's kind of like what happens in our house anyway. Like one of my favorite things, if Alex is out at the gym, we're at a meeting. Like, I love like being there when he gets home. Now there are a lot of people who like those types of videos where they'll be like, oh yeah, put on a big like face of makeup, get dressed up, and I'll be in like my pajamas. But I'm waiting on the porch being like, hug me. Like, I'm so excited to see, but I'm like genuinely so excited to see him every day when he gets home from whatever he's doing. And I will happily cook him a steak whenever he wants. I'm terrible at cooking steak. He's far superior. So he usually does it. But I will, will cook him a meal, whatever he wants because it's, I mean it's less of a, I'm revering you as a man and like whatever it is and more so you are a person that I love and I'm gonna care for you and hopefully make your day better. But he also does the same for me. So it's not like a one sided thing. And I think a lot of people who, a lot of the women who get so angry about that see it as like, well, this just means that I'm serving him and I'm getting nothing back. But I think that there is something to be said of like, what are the small things that you can do in your relationship to just make their lives Better to just offer them some sort of comfort. And it kind of. If you're in a situation. This is just my opinion, but if you're in a situation where things aren't great and you're just constantly at odds, it's like, well, can you be the one to just, like, take the step to start? And it might be uncomfortable because you feel like, oh, maybe it wouldn't be appreciated, but maybe that's all you needed to do, is just, like, kind of show up and show the guy that you love him and you care about him, and hopefully that, you know, starts to change things. And if he really just doesn't appreciate anything that you're doing and you're doing all of the right things and you're trying to be supportive, then that's indicative of a much bigger problem. But if you're just dealing with, like, nagging communication issues, or you just feel like you're, you know, not on the same path, you're not as connected, it's like, what can you do to just, like, try to make your home life a little happier and more comfortable? And that should be something that both individuals are trying to do.

[Graham Allen]

What's your advice to guys out there to improve themselves? Like, what's the steak example? But from the guy's perspective, women really.

[Brett Cooper]

Love when you pay attention to the little things, which is not the Jack is like, oh, God.

[Jack]

That's like, the hardest thing to do.

[Brett Cooper]

Yes. Oh, I know.

[Jack]

Is that why they like. It is because they know it's, like, high effort. High intentional.

[Brett Cooper]

Like, I don't know if it's like. I don't see. I don't think about it in that regard of, like, high effort. But it's always like, when Alex will. Okay, so last night, I was feeling awful, and I had an awful headache. And we were driving yesterday, and there was, like, a big pile up on the road, and he, like, slammed on the brakes. I like, went like this. My just neck felt. I just, like, had an off day, and my dog, accidentally. My dog, who was a terror, like, somehow got on the stove and, like, turned on the gas. So then our house, like, the entire kitchen, and just the whole, like, evening was just, like, kind of went awry, and I just was just not feeling it. And so we had dinner, and it was like a series of events of, like, him being like, oh, my God, my wife is just, like, not having a time. And so we ate dinner, and I went and I got in bed and was like, I'm gonna go to bed early. I. You know, we had this podcast in the morning. I want to be prepared for it. I have work to do in the morning. I wanted to just go to bed, and he was in there. Thought he was just, like, cleaning up the kitchen because we had made dinner. And I'm obsessed with chocolate chip cookies. And I was, like, half asleep and comes in with, like, this plate of chocolate chip cookies. And I didn't ask him to do that. And it's not, like, a super specific little thing because he knows that I like, my favorite food in the world is a chocolate chip cookie. But he took 15 minutes to be like, yeah, I can, like, make a cookie from scratch and bring that. And it was like, my night, literally, like, it was like life rushed through me. I was like, I can do anything. I'm up. But it was just like. And it wasn't the cookie, but it was. You saw that I was not having a great time, that I didn't feel great, that I had an awful headache, that I just felt really offended off. And you took 15 minutes out of your day when you could have been, you know, relaxing, reading a book, doing some work, sending some emails, texting your friends, looking at, you know, reels on Instagram to send all of your frat bros, whatever it is, and you took 15 minutes to do something that was really special. And that wasn't, like, the most complicated thing to figure out, but it was like. And I didn't know that he was doing it. I think that's also something for both men and women, is that I think just people in general love when. And you don't have to, like, ask somebody to do something, but where it's just kind of unexpected. And so I don't think for women that it has to be this, like, you've traveled across the world to, like, find this, like, secret thing that they care about, but it's just like, you know, is there something that they talk about that they really love or this restaurant that they really want to go to or, you know, something that they pointed out online? Like, Alex will. I'll, like, send him a reel or show him something on my phone of, like, oh, I. You know, this dress is really. Six months later, for Christmas, he's gotten the dress. He's like, remember? I don't even remember that. I.

[Graham Allen]

That's impossible.

[Brett Cooper]

But he's so intentional. It's, like, crazy. And so I had to, like, step up my game. So I have like, a, like, running notes app list of, like, now that I, like, write things down and remember things, because he's so good at that. And it's really, really like. It's so special. That's.

[Graham Allen]

That's unusual. I mean, I. I'm hoping to find.

[Jack]

A wife that doesn't value that at all, but, my God, I'll have to make some.

[Graham Allen]

And 10 minutes later, I've forgotten it.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah. Which, honestly, you would be shocked because he is somebody that's kind of like, in one ear up the other. He's kind of like, squirrel, like, sparkly thing, whatever. But he somehow just makes an effort in that capacity. But it also doesn't even have to be that. It's like, chicks love flowers. Like, it's really, like, people are like, what can I do? It's so simple. And it doesn't have to be some, like, fancy bouquet. Like, they're really, like, pretty ones at Trader Joe's for, like, $3.

[Graham Allen]

You know what's funny? I've gotten Macy fake flowers. She hates them, but to me, it's like. But they last. Like, wouldn't you rather have a bouquet? Flowers that could stay there for years?

[Brett Cooper]

No.

[Graham Allen]

Not die.

[Brett Cooper]

No, never.

[Graham Allen]

Because they're really good at home goods, though. They look identical.

[Jack]

Graham loves fake everything.

[Brett Cooper]

You do?

[Graham Allen]

Yes.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Graham Allen]

I love walking into a house and everything's perfect. No flowers are dying. There's nothing that needs to be watered. And just from a distance, it looks the same.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah, but what about the. What about the experience of, like, you come home and you've just thought about it. You saw, like, a little. Literally, it can be the little bouquet that's, like, this big at Trader Joe's, and you're like, oh, I'm thinking about her.

[Graham Allen]

I like. I like the fake ones. I. I don't know. Because then you could swap them out for seasons.

[Brett Cooper]

Like, we.

[Graham Allen]

We'll have, like, the. The spring fake flowers, the summer fake flowers, the fall fake flowers. And it's just the same thing. I don't know.

[Brett Cooper]

It's very practical.

[Graham Allen]

I much prefer that.

[Jack]

Where would you recommend a guy go to find a traditional woman? Woman. And where would you recommend they don't go?

[Brett Cooper]

Oh, gosh.

[Jack]

Because I was just at Coachella.

[Brett Cooper]

I feel like that's probably not the right place to go.

[Jack]

I think you're probably right.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah. Do you learn that?

[Jack]

Well, I didn't really talk to anybody.

[Graham Allen]

You didn't talk to anybody? I mean, you did?

[Jack]

No, no. I mean, not. My friend was talking to a girl.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And she had a friend, so I kind of, like, tried to keep the environment in a good situation. Excellent. Yeah. She was actually pretty cool. But I feel like walking around it was not the ideal situation to probably find a traditional woman.

[Brett Cooper]

No, for sure. It's like going to a location where you know that values are in practice basically. And it doesn't need to be like, I'm going to go to this church. That is exactly, whatever. Because people have all these different opinions about like, whether church is a great place to meet people or not. But this thread was basically arguing, like if somebody is showing up to, you know, this workout class every single week and you see them there and there's like repetition or if they're going to this run club or like a tennis group or whatever it is. It's like joining an activity where it's like you're showing like, I care about health and physical exercise at least you're like sort of moving in the right path or joining some kind of like organized group where you have like similar values. I think that's probably the easiest way. I also think that, like on dating apps, you have to be pretty clear about what you want and who you are. I think that's where the pitfalls of dating apps happen, where it's like men and women both are. Well, I think it's more with men, less with women. Because based on the responses that I've seen, like you were saying, of like women responding to guys, if they show any shred of not being a like feminist liberal, that, you know, basically my point in saying this is that you have to be very clear about what you want. And it kind of sucks sometimes because you'll get responses from women who are like, no, this is terrible, but you're weeding, you don't want to date them anyway. So it's like if you are upfront about what you want and your intention with dating and your values, it is so much better because you weed out the people who are going to dislike you anyway and then you will attract the people who hopefully are in line with that, which is harder because that means a little more confrontation and being public about things. But I think that's key. But I do think a huge part of it is being in an environment where you're seeing somebody repeatedly and you're seeing them in a group of friends or in some kind of team related thing. And I wish I had more concrete advice, but I feel like I kind of got out of the dating market pretty quickly.

[Jack]

It's so funny, it made me think like going to a pickleball club or going to a one club and trying to find a. Or Trying to meet someone. It's like you're going there though, for an ulterior motive.

[Brett Cooper]

I know.

[Jack]

And that for me, like, feels a little weird. But it made me think. And I still think it's so funny. Like, I have friends that swear by certain methods. They're like, dude, this is going to sound like they, they all say like, go to a game. Gay bar.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Because if you go to a gay bar.

[Brett Cooper]

Oh yeah. Then it's all the girls that are just trying to have.

[Jack]

Well, it's girls that are just trying to have fun.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah.

[Jack]

They're not like peacocking at a normal bar or a non gay bar.

[Brett Cooper]

For sure.

[Jack]

That's what we call them, non gay bars where, where you know, they're trying to show off to guys or whatever. But at gay bar, they're just trying to have fun, sing some.

[Brett Cooper]

That actually makes a ton of sense.

[Graham Allen]

Yeah.

[Jack]

But it's also, I don't know, I guess going out somewhere with the intention of like. Yeah.

[Brett Cooper]

So I guess my response to that would be like, I would never join a run club because I hate running. But I would join maybe like there was my first like summer in Nashville. I'm really bad at volleyball, but I had friends that had like a church volleyball like league, but it was like through the city. But their church group did. They needed an extra person. I was like, yeah, sure. Like, I really like it. Like, I didn't go for any purpose of meeting somebody and I didn't meet somebody. But it's like you find something that you're actually interested in because if you don't meet anybody, you still get to gain a skill or do something that you enjoy, whether it's like a. A gun club or a. Doesn't have to be pickleball, but find something that will enrich your life regardless of whether you meet somebody or not.

[Jack]

How bad do you think modern hookup culture is? Who is it worse for guys and girls and what does it look like if you extend that over a longer period of time? I hear Jordan Peterson say it can completely restructure your value hierarchy and make you nearly undateable.

[Brett Cooper]

I think he's absolutely accurate on that because I think it skews your perception of what intimacy really is and what I think humans are sort of wired to look for in a relationship of this, like long term trust and stability and companionship. And I think if you spend years just hooking up with people and sleeping around and not taking any kind of commitment, you will feel very detached from that idea of commitment and I think that men or women will look at somebody who has just been like sleeping around for 20 years and it's kind of of like something wrong with you or like, why? Like, I don't really want to date. Like, I wouldn't want to date somebody that has, you know, if I was in my 30s, who had spent his entire, you know, 20s and 30s, just hooking up with girls and not seeking anything that was more meaningful because I would kind of be like, well, what are your, what are your values actually mean? Like, what have you been focusing on? Like, I don't need you to have been in like four long term relationship seeking marriage, but if you've just spent all of your time kind of chasing, tracing tail, then what does that say about you? I don't know if I could pinpoint who it impacts most negatively. I think that it's been different for men and women. I think that men have been negatively impacted because I think the bigger negative impact for men has been for sure. And I think that that has fostered an increase in hookup culture. For sure. Sure. But I think for women, hookup culture has completely kind of like skewed like protecting this beautiful thing that you have, which is like, I mean, you kind of look at it biologically where it's like men, you have the ability to like go sew as many seeds and have as many children singing with Elon right now. You can have as many kids as possible. Women, it's like, you know, like one egg a month. You like have to protect this baby that you're having. It's just like you're rewired different. And I think for women it's so dangerous. And I also think it's ideologically very dangerous because you're putting yourself out there and it's under the guise of this female empowerment. Like, I can do whatever I want with my body, I can sleep with whoever. This is powerful. But it's like you're actually just like letting somebody get off using you and putting yourself in an incredibly vulnerable situation because he doesn't get pregnant, you might get pregnant and now you have this child that you have to raise. Like, that's a very real, real consequence of sex and hookup culture that I think a lot of people don't think about. Because abortion exists. And the common line is, you know, consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy. I'm like, it kind of is like whether you're consenting to it or not, it's a natural consequence. Like that just happens. You can't Avoid that. And that's just kind of lying to yourself. And so I think it's taken what is a very vulnerable, incredibly intimate situation for both parties, but especially for women, and turned it into this false sense of empowerment that I think is really skewed what women look for and what they value in themselves and they value in the world. And I think a lot of women just lie to themselves about it, feeling powerful and feeling really happy. But when you look at statistics, like across decades and decades of research, it shows that women who are in. I also show this with like parenthood, but married couples are objectively happier. And it isn't because the institution of marriage is so perfect and it fixes everything, but it's because you have a lasting commitment to somebody else who has your best interests at heart, who loves you and is trying to make you better, where you have that security and that stability and that provides human flourishing. And you'll see articles that come out and it's like women who are single in their 30s are richer and they're happier. And you read the articles, you actually get past the headline and it's like they're using an outlier from a tiny study of like 30 people. Or they're saying that they're actually happier. But it's, it's only looking at men and women who are single in their 30s. It's not actually looking at women who are single compared to women who are married or have kids or have been divorced or whatever it is. So the research is very skewed. So I think it's just like changed what women are part of that.

[Graham Allen]

I feel like for women have to make more money because they're supporting themselves versus if they're in a relationship, they could take other jobs and maybe pay less that have a better balance.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah, exactly. And it's like a lot of women who are, who are married choose to, you know. Yeah. Take a lower paying job or be able to stay home with the kids. And there's also the opposite side of things where it's like married men significantly out earn unmarried men. Because then there is this. And I've even just watched it with Alex where we don't have kids. I make good money, but as a husband, he's like, no, I want to, if you ever want to like stop working completely, I want to be able to let you do that. And we don't have to change our lives, that we don't have to worry about anything. And I want to protect you. And especially as I, I've kind of Made this whole career shift of leaving a situation where I had like, you know, I had a W2 job and I was a salaried employee to where I've now jumped to. You know, my income is based on basically what I put out. I would have been able to do that if it wasn't for his, you know, support and being able to make that happen. And in a similar way where he started his business, I was able to give support because he was leaving his W2 job. So it's like this give and take, but just watching him as a husband, we've only been married for a year of he's making significantly more. And it's like this mindset shift of I'm gonna be better for you. I'm going to like, try to make more to provide for us. And I don't think. I think that there's a lot of unmarried men who are obviously motivated and want to do well, but don't have that extra, like, I need to provide, I need to take care of them. So yeah, you have women that need to provide because they don't have that safety net. And then you have men that are driven. So again, it's just like this divide between men and women goes so, so deep right now. Between happiness and finances and educational levels to ideology. It's so deep, I think people kind of brush it aside and make fun of it and we laugh about it and we say, oh, these liberal women, whatever. It's so important. It's like our society is becoming completely off kilter because of this. I think it's a root of a lot of these issues. I think Jordan is one of the only people that talks about it as extensively as it should. Chris Williamson is another one who talks about this extensively because it's such a huge issue.

[Graham Allen]

What do you think about the dynamic where women make more than their husbands?

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah, I've seen it work and I've seen it not work. Like in my parents marriage, that was a big issue, but it was the money wasn't the issue. It was the personalities more than anything of. My mom was a very dominant person and I think that she needed somebody who was more dominant than her and was as assertive as a person. It was probably a lot more overtly assertively masculine in more traditional ways where my dad is definitely not that at all. And so I think that already caused an imbalance and she is not somebody who's going to make herself smaller or I think she kind of looked at it as like, hey, well, you need to rise to the occasion. And he was kind of like, well, you're hurting my feelings. And so I think there was an emotional layer to that. It wasn't actually about the money. It was more about how they were operating within their marriage and what the responsibility was and how that made each of them feel. Where she then felt very, very resentful and he felt ashamed, I think. But that, again, it wasn't. I think the money was a symptom or an additional symptom of that rather than being the actual cause. Like, they would have still had the same issues if he had made significantly more, I think. And so I think it really goes down to, you know, in the marriages that I've really seen it work. Like, I have a very, very close friend who's a mentor to me. She's one of my best friends, but she's much older than me. Um, and she has always had a more traditional corporate job that's made a lot of money and her husband does not. And they have an incredible, incredible marriage and they are each other's best friends. But at the beginning of their marriage, they kind of acknowledged the elephant in the room of, hey, this is the path I'm taking. This is the path you're taking. And we're deciding this early on and that's okay, and if things change, we'll address them. But she still massively, like, it doesn't change her respect of her husband. He's an incredible, incredible guy who leads their household, who is an amazing, amazing man, and she reveres him and everything. And I think that's the key, is that you. It's. I think money is very difficult in general, too, and money causes a lot of problems as it's kind of like an age old. An age old saying. So. But the foundation has to be there, I think, before the foundation has to be there for it to work.

[Jack]

Do you think a guy should lead the household? And what does that look like in application?

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah, I've certainly do. But I think that, that. I think a lot of people hear that and say, okay, he's going to make every decision, he's going to tell me what to do. I'm going to be super subservient. And a lot of women hear that, are like, no. It's like, I hate that. I don't want to be told what to do. But for me, I look at that as like, I married a guy who I massively respect. Like, I genuinely think he is the smartest person in the room. I genuinely think that he is kind and Empathetic and a good friend. He's a great leader. He's incredibly compassionate. He has great intellectual stinks. And he's somebody that, like, I feel like when I met him and we started dating, it was like a weight taken off of me because I had all of these walls up. I was managing all of these different things. I was like, I don't know who to trust. What am I doing here? Like, my family's this. Whatever. I met him and it was like, oh, my God, I can, like, relax. Cause I'm dating somebody that I trust, who I know has my best interests at heart. And so I naturally, it's less of a. Like, I'm calculating, you know, being like, I need Alex to make this decision because he's going to lead us in this way and more. So, like, you're really great at making these decisions, and it takes a weight off of me. And you enjoy this, like, where, you know, I'm buying a car. When I bought my car last year, he handled the entire thing. He basically told me what car we were going to get. He told me we were going to get a Tesla because it made sense for my commute. And I was terrible at filling up my Forerunner with gas. I would get home and I would have, like, four miles. And he would be like, okay, well, you're not. I'm not letting you go out to the. To the East Nashville, you know, shell station at 11pm in the dark. So then I have to go do this. Whatever. And he was like, so this is the car. Where to get. It's great. I found a great price. We're going to do it. I was like, great. I am so happy that I don't have to think about this. And I was kind of resentful at the time because I loved my 4Runner.

[Jack]

That's a cool car.

[Brett Cooper]

Loved it. It was my dream car. And I had it for, like, three years, two years. And now I love my Tesla. And I didn't think I was going to love it. I have a Tesla Y. Okay, yeah, Model Y. But I didn't think I was going to like it. And I was like, I've always had, like, trucks and a gas guzzler, and this is what I want. We were moving to a farm, and why am I getting a Tesla? I was like, you drive, like, 35 minutes to your studio every day. This is dumb. And you don't fill up your car with gas. And gas prices are so high. This makes sense. I'm like, okay, whatever. But I trusted him. I Didn't really push back, other than being like, I'm gonna miss my car. I love my car now. Everything he said was right. And, like, he just. He's very logistical. He understands the situation from a bird's eye view, and it's so wonderful. And this is just like, being in a great relationship in general. And I don't know if you feel this, too, where it's like, you have somebody who is, like, gets you outside of your head when you can't and knows you so well and is like, no, this actually is what you need. And I trust him implicitly, but I also do the same thing for him in a different way, where I'm not negotiating what Kari's gonna buy and telling him what Kari should do. But when it comes to, like, interpersonal relationships or things that he's doing in his work and how he, you know, navigates some situation with a client, it's definitely like the male, female roles of, like. Like, I'm just, you know, more emotional. That's where I, like, excel in. Then he comes to me, and we work through that. And at the end of the day, we're both adults. We can make whatever decision we want, but we trust each other in that regard, and we know our strengths. And so that's kind of how I think it is in application of, you know, there are certainly things that he excels in. And so I let him lead in that regard, and I trust him enough to let him lead. I think that there is. And I think you have to find the right person for you, because it's not like there were. I would go out with guys, and Alex was the first one that I looked at, and I was like, I would trust you to be in the driver's seat of my life. If I was in a life or death situation. If I needed you to make a decision, you are somebody that I feel like would make a great decision for me.

[Graham Allen]

Was that immediate? You felt like that?

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah, and it was just. That was just like a kind of an emotional feeling of, like, stability. And then I got to know him more, and I was like, oh, yes. Like, in practice, I feel this. And there would be other people that I would go out with where even, like, on the first date, I was like, I don't think this is. It was just, like, a vibe thing of. I don't think we're in sync. I think that, you know, just knowing my parents, marriage, there are times when I'd be like, I think I am way too dominant for you, and I might really like you, and you're really sweet and you're really funny, but I can already tell that even me, as a people pleaser, I might walk all over you. And that's not what I. I saw that in practice, I saw it not, what, working. And so I think it's really important to know yourself. I think that's kind of a conversation that is missed, especially on, like, the conservative right where they'll say, like, just get married. It's gonna, you save the west, get married, save society, whatever it is. We have to find the right person. Like, don't just tell a whole crowd of high schoolers to just go out and find somebody and get married. You have to find the right person for you. It has to be somebody that you trust, that you feel like will always be advocating for you to be your best, who is supporting you, who's holding you to a high standard. If it is, you know, if you are a woman and you're looking for a guy who is somebody that you would trust in your most, again, you're marrying somebody, you're gonna have this guy's kids. He's gonna. You are gonna be in your most vulnerable situations with him. Make sure that somebody that you trust. And I think in order to know who you can trust what you're looking for, you have to know yourself. And so some people, and I feel like I was, you know, lucky and I was in a unique situation where I feel like I knew myself at a very young age, probably because a lot of the stuff that I went through as a kid, I had to grow up really quick, quickly. Some people just know. But I knew kind of what I wanted my life to look like from a bird's eye view. I knew my values. I knew what had not. I think a big blessing was that I knew what didn't work in my parents marriage. And so I was able to at a young age, younger age than a lot of people say, okay, I think this is gonna work. And obviously, you know, we're one year in. But it's funny, a lot of people say that, like, the first year of marriage is the hardest and you're figuring everything out. Like my age is. It's like last year was actually very difficult for us.

[Graham Allen]

Who says that? I've never. I've not found that at all.

[Brett Cooper]

It's really commonplace thing. I'll even see it on like, friends, social media of like, oh, it's hard. Or like people who are like older couples, maybe it's just they're like, I don't know, projecting or whatever. They're like, oh, just wait, that first.

[Jack]

Year, maybe it only gets better then.

[Brett Cooper]

I know maybe that. And that could be a. That's. Maybe that's the perspective shift.

[Graham Allen]

But I guess that could be different if you've like never lived together or you're just like moving in. Like you get married and like the next week you a house and like now you merge everything and maybe that's it. I don't know.

[Brett Cooper]

That could be. I don't know. But it's like, even with, you know, Alex and I, we were joking about this. We technically like lived together, but we didn't. Like, he was. I bought a house and he had a house and we knew that we wanted to get married and knew we wanted to get married within the next year. And he had a great opportunity to rent his house. And then it like lined up with what I was going to, to Budapest to shoot the Pen Dragon cycle for Daily Wire. So I was gone for four months. So we like overlapped in a home for like two weeks. Then he spent like a month and a half with me out in Budapest. But we didn't actually like live together basically until we got married. Cause then we had bought our farm and we were moving around. But it was like we didn't actually spend a ton of time cahabitating, which neither of us really wanted, actually. Both of us were like, we don't want to move in together. And not because we didn't want to, not even because we were like morally against it. But it just felt like neither of us wanted to be in a situation where it became. I think there's a danger in cohabitating just for the sake of getting to know somebody if you're not sure that that's who you want to be with. Because I've seen it go awry where it's like, okay, well, now our lives are so entangled and we can't unwind them. And we've been living together. So I guess we're basically married and whatever. And there's just like low. There's low commitment. But now your lives are so entwined. And that both of us just independently were very against that. But we felt confident enough of like, we were talking about, like, yeah, we're get married in 2024. That's what it's going to be. And I kind of like knew through friends that he was in the process of buying a ring. And I was like, oh, okay, then, yeah, go ahead and rent your house and I'm going to be Leaving to go to Hungary for four or five months. Anyway, it was a very unique situation. But yeah, it's weird hearing that and I think it probably is a lot of people just having to. I think learning somebody communication style is. It's just difficult. And thankfully for us, it wasn't something that, you know, was like we were butting heads. It was just kind of, you know, even still we're like, okay, like I'll learn new things about him every week basically, but they aren't hard or bad.

[Graham Allen]

With the 8 year age gap, did you notice any like differences between you two or like cultural references that you would say that?

[Brett Cooper]

Cultural references, for sure, that he would know cultural references. But also most of that was amplified by the fact that he was raised having TV and went to like a brick and mortar high school. Went to an sec school, had a, you know, an iPhone, whatever it was. And I had no television growing up. Like I was a homeschooled nerd horse girl. Like, it's so funny. So he is a. Yeah. The age was never an issue because we were. I think what's more important than age is being at the same stage of life. I think that's also another thing people should really think about of like, even if you are both 22 years old, you could have a guy that is super successful and has his own business and is, you know, creating a real, you know, stake for himself in the world. And you have a girl that's like, still, I don't know, partying at her sorority in college and is not like ready to take life as seriously as he is or vice versa. And I think, you know, they always say, say like women mature more quickly than men. I've seen it be both ways, but of, you know, this episode is brought to you by LifeLock.

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[Brett Cooper]

At 21 or 22, I was never gonna, I was never gonna be compatible with another like 22 year old in Nashville who was like going to Belmont. Like the majority of the guys I would meet who would be around my age. So I think having being at the same stage of life and being ready for the next things I Think is also important to understand about yourself and your potential partner. Significant other. Anyway, so that was never really an issue. But I always laughed about the fact that he had a very, like, conventional childhood and he ended up at an SEC school in a fraternity, was like a lax bro, and he ended up marrying a homeschooled horse girl theater kid, like, as like. And if you had told him that that was who he was going to be, like, in love with and married to in high school, he'd be like, you are absolute. Like, hell, no. That is insane. Um, and so I think those are probably. That caused more of the kind of cultural differences of. There were just, like, Internet meme references that I didn't get, but I probably wouldn't have gotten them with somebody my own age either, because I wasn't online, so. Yeah, but that hasn't, like, it's basically just been humorous rather than creating an issue. But it was also funny because he thought that I was much older than I was, and I thought he was much younger because he does. Doesn't really look like he's, you know, 31. And I thought that he was, like, 25, and he thought that I was 25. And it was like, on our fourth date or something. We'd, like, both. I remember being like, something's, like, weird. Like, he said something. I don't think that's accurate. I think it was, like, because he went to the same high school as my brother's, and I had, like. He had said something about the year he'd graduated, and I was like, that doesn't seem right. And I literally, like, went into his wallet and I looked at his birthday, and I was like, oh, wait, hold on. Oh, yeah. I think I've never gone through his phone secret secretly. Yeah, he had, like, gone upstairs to grab something. But I was so confused because I was like, I don't, like, am I really missing something? And I felt like after going on, like, four or five dates, I could just be like, his health. Are you.

[Graham Allen]

What? Okay, is there an age where if you saw on his driver's license, you would say, that's too old?

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah, if he was, like. If he was, like, 35, then I probably would have been like, that's the cutoff. That would have been. And maybe somewhere in between. But he was, you know, 28 when we started dating. I think we're technically, like, seven years. But again, we were on, like, such similar wavelengths at the same, like, stage of life. So it didn't like, that didn't really.

[Graham Allen]

Okay, but what what if he was 45?

[Brett Cooper]

Oh, that would have been like. No. No. Weird, even.

[Graham Allen]

Yeah. Everything was like, totally.

[Brett Cooper]

I think I just couldn't.

[Jack]

Okay, well, he's like, I thought you were 40.

[Brett Cooper]

Oh, gosh. Yeah, exactly. But no, I think that would have been.

[Jack]

How did you confront that when he came back to the table?

[Brett Cooper]

We never really did. He more. He more so talked to me about it because. Okay, so I went on Tim Pool. I've never told this story. I went on Tim Pool, and Tim Pool was at Daily Wire, and we were talking about something and they were like, wait, how old are you? And I said, oh, I'm. I think I said, I'm 21. Apparently, Alex was driving and almost crashed his car because he thought I was, like, 25 or 26. He was like, wait, I had, like, no idea. And so we had. But I don't even think we had a. He joked about it later on, but we never had, like, a confrontation, like, conversation. But I think he, liked, talked to his mom and a couple friends. And I also, like, talked to a couple of friends. It was like, we really. But. And then we, like, talked about a couple months later, I think, where we were, like, we both thought we were at different ages. And it's just something that we've laughed about.

[Jack]

If you could make one new cultural rule that everyone had to follow, what would you do?

[Brett Cooper]

That's a good question. I guess the funny one is that everybody has to walk faster on the sidewalk. That's just like. Like a. A big pet peeve for me is slow walkers. But that's not any kind of, like, important cultural thing. I don't. Okay. This is more like of a legislation. I would, like, get rid of an only fans. I would make it. Or if I couldn't, like, do that, I would make it, like, so socially impermissible to, like, make and sell your body online. I think it is so harmful for. We talked about this in the last episode extensively. I think it is destructive to men. I think it is destructive to women. It is one of the leading causes of divorce in America. Is it? Yes.

[Graham Allen]

How it's crazy. I thought it was money was the leading divorce.

[Brett Cooper]

I think that is probably the leading. But it's, like, cited in over half of divorces as a major problem. And I think a lot of guys look at it as. You know, it's so commonplace now. So I under. And it is so accessible. Like, this is something I've talked. Talked with, you know, my mom and older friends of mine and people I work with. Who, you know, it used to be something like you'd go to the movie theaters and you have to, like, sit around a bunch of people and you'd see like, or whatever, and you'd get, like, these magazines and it's in all the, you know, 90s movies. If you'd hide them under your bed, it's like, in our phones now. It's like on Instagram. We're fed, you know, basically soft. It's very easy to go on a myriad of different websites. Websites is free. It's just in your pocket, and it's accessible and it's private. And so I think because of the accessibility people have, it's just become normalized. And I think that a lot of people see it as just innocent and like a means to an end. And like, oh, I get off. I'm not dating anybody, or whatever it is, and that it's harmless. But it has such a detrimental effect, not only mentally and on relationships, but also physically. There are so many studies, especially with men, of how it impacts your hormones and your, you know, I mean, the. You basically just, like, fry your brain, which then impacts how you are physically able to engage in sex and physically, like, connect with a physical partner.

[Graham Allen]

Can you say that also about a lot of things like alcohol or TikTok or Instagram, really anything that isn't good for you. Sugar, yeah. Could say that that's also kind of destroying your brain.

[Brett Cooper]

Brain, yeah, for sure. I think that there is a.

[Graham Allen]

I.

[Brett Cooper]

Think that has another level because I think that it has. And maybe it's more similar to like, a TikTok or whatever. I would, like, differentiate it between a. Like a drug, and I put, like, sugar in the drug category because it acts as a drug. It's very addictive. But in terms of, like, TikTok and social media addictions and that kind of thing, I think that it fries people's brains in that regard. But I think it's even more sinister because that it impacts families and marriages in such a detrimental way. And if I could just, like, wave a wand and rid society of it, I would. But it's like, is that legislatively even possible? Would that cause, like. I think it's really hard to. Just based on how I look at it and how I look at the impacts that it's had culturally, I think it's very easy for me to be like, yeah, I just want to get rid of it. I want to do away with it. The principles and implications of that, of, you know, government overreach, of banishment. We had this whole conversation about TikTok and a lot of people want it banned purely because of the, the same kind of results of. I think that's a dangerous game to play and I even waver on that of like how far is too far and what are we, you know, what measure is government taking to actually protect its citizens and what is overreach reach. And so while I would love to just like I'm do if I could do away with it and have no repercussions on, you know, any negative repercussions on how government operates and overreach in that regard, I would. But I think it's a lot more complicated than that. And that's why I think that it is a, it's a cultural issue rather than legislatively. But the legislative things that I think need to happen are happening with like requiring to have age verification laws. Like that should be a no brainer. Like, and the fact that instead of in like, instead of changing their business model and putting in age verifications, they just say okay, we're just not going to be in Alabama, we're just not going to be in Texas. I'm like, that's so, so weird.

[Graham Allen]

I think a lot of people are concerned about a leak like that. Yeah, like what was that one? The, the, the Affair website, was it?

[Brett Cooper]

Oh yes, whatever.

[Graham Allen]

They had that leak and then now all the wives could go on like search this leak and find all their husbands on there.

[Brett Cooper]

Oh yeah, there's all of person. Yeah.

[Graham Allen]

So I think people are concerned if like there is a database of like my ID and information on if that gets leaked out there and you get to like just type in, type in Jack Selby and you see his name everywhere.

[Jack]

Everywhere. It's like 20 plus pages.

[Graham Allen]

Every website is just Jack Selby's on there.

[Jack]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brett Cooper]

And unfortunately like, and maybe this is me being you know, playing hardball with it. But I, I'm like, you know, with those sites where all of you know, I think there was a couple of like congressmen that were terrified of like, you know, their names getting leaked and they ended up digging. Leaked actually that who was the guy who. Somebody was on Sean show and he was talking to me about it where actually he was one of the people that like hacked one of those websites and had that whole database and the FBI was like banging down his door trying to get it because they knew that there were names on it, that it was a website. And it's like with things like that, especially with like, like I don't care about Your privacy, whatever. And I think it's obviously a little different for. But also, if there is that. I would love it if it was something that people were actually. We were talking about the importance of, like, embarrassment and shame. I think that right now it's something that is so commonplace, but I think that it should be something that it's like, this is not a good thing. You should know that probably what you're engaging in is incredibly unhealthy and is not making you a better person and is not helping your relationship or your marriage or, you know, your status in the dating market. And that should. That's a net bad thing. It's like doing drugs. You should know that what you're doing is not good for you. And I think there should be a level of that. James. So I feel less sympathetic too, if your name gets out. I'm like, okay, yeah.

[Graham Allen]

What about Onlyfans?

[Brett Cooper]

God, Onlyfans.

[Graham Allen]

Like that Bop House. I keep getting recommended them. Because now that one lady, the one.

[Jack]

Girl'S Bop House, she's okay, it's real.

[Graham Allen]

So it's Sophia. Sophia Rain. So I think. I don't. How old are they? They're like 18 to 20.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah.

[Graham Allen]

But they're making millions of dollars a month.

[Jack]

And I've heard of Sophia Rain.

[Graham Allen]

Yeah, Sophia Rain. She's making like $4 million a month.

[Brett Cooper]

And then another fans version of, like, the Hype House and that kind of thing. Like, it's this, like, coalition of, like, chicks with huge tits and fake asses, like, making only fans videos.

[Jack]

That's funny. It's sad, but I know it's really funny. They call it the Bobhouse.

[Graham Allen]

It's called the Bobhouse. But even there.

[Jack]

There's.

[Graham Allen]

There's this one Only fans girl who does, like, interviews with her assistant and her younger brother.

[Jack]

I've seen that.

[Graham Allen]

Yeah, her. And she was talking about Sophia Rain. She's like, sophia Rain makes so much money. And they're like, how much money do you make? And she's like. Just pauses for a second. And she's like, well, not as much as Sophia. And they're like, okay, okay. But like, how much do you make? 1 and a half million dollars a month.

[Brett Cooper]

It's insane.

[Graham Allen]

A month.

[Brett Cooper]

And the thing is that. So that is obviously real. I mean, you look at, like, Bhad Bhabie. This is so creepy to me that, like. And Bhad Bhabie even, like, said this. She's the Cash Me Outside girl. She made an only fans on her 18th birthday and had people wait. She made more Money than she's ever made in her life. The day that she made her only fans, the day that she turned 18, because people were, like, waiting. And it's so.

[Graham Allen]

But that isn't. I remember. I remember people were waiting for Emma Watson. Yeah, that was the thing there. There were websites. Yeah. That, like, had the countdowns going. And it was different for me. I think she's a year older than me, so, like, at the time, I think I was 17, she had just, like, turned 18 or, like, something like that. So for me, it was. It was different at that moment. But, yeah, I think this is something that's been going on for a while.

[Brett Cooper]

And now people, like, feed into it. I think the difference is now that OnlyFans gives you the opportunity to monetize that weirdness. Whereas I look at that and I'm like, that should be something that we can acknowledge. It's very odd for grown men online to be waiting for you to be 18 so that they can sexualize you openly. And now our culture is so depraved that women are like, it's actually empowering for me to lean into this and for people to be, like, waiting to openly sexualize me. There is a crazy. Okay, have you seen the Denise Richards story?

[Graham Allen]

Yeah, I've heard of it.

[Brett Cooper]

So Denise Richards, Charlie Sheen, they were married. They have three daughters together. And this is also a crazy situation because one of their daughters is, like, very Christian, talks about her faith on TikTok, does, like, Bible study on TikTok. She's really sweet, and she's living in this, like, chaos. So they split up. And Sammy Sheen, two and a half years ago on her 18th birthday, made an only fans. And her rationality. I'm not kidding, this is so insane. Is that she wanted to move out, and she was working at a candy shop, and the income at the candy shop wasn't cutting it. So she was like, I went to the next best thing and didn't know offense. And I'm like, first of all, you're a Nepo baby. Like, you should. Your mother is Denise Richards. Your father is Charlie Sheen. If you didn't want to, like, work a normal job, go make some movies, go, like, have your dad get you a job. Like, lean into the fact that you have amazing connections. And in her mind, the next best thing, the easiest thing, was to join OnlyFans. And so she gave this whole interview. They have a new reality TV show, it's called the Wild Things, and based on Denise's movie, and there's a whole interview about how empowering it is to be an entrepreneur because she's on OnlyFans. She makes so much money, so she was able to move out. She quit working at the candy shop. But the most insane thing is that a week later, Denise also made an OnlyFans her mother, because she was seeing that people were sexualizing her daughter and were making comments, and she was like, well, I can't let that happen to OnlyFans you. And so she also made only fans and defined. So now both this mother and daughter, it's an OnlyFans duo, which I think there's so much, like, psychology, you know, and, like, layers of this onion to peel back of. You know, Denise Richards was this, like, sex icon bombshell. Now her daughter is getting all this attention. I look at this kind of as, like, kind of missing the attention that you used to get. And you want to also commodify that you saw it was working out for your daughter. But Sammy makes millions. And Charlie Sheen gave an interview, and he was very get set. He was like, this did not happen under my roof. She doesn't live with me. She lives with my wife. Which was also so weird because then she apparently told her dad how much she was making, and he was like, oh, if you're making that much money, I guess how much Was it that bad? It's like millions of dollars, I think. Well, it's nothing like millions every month, but in a year, she had made, like, $4 million. And it's like, as a father, it's like, so the money then makes it better. Like, your daughter is selling.

[Graham Allen]

I think it does make it better.

[Jack]

It makes it more understandable.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah, it does.

[Jack]

If someone shows pictures of their nude body online and they make. Make, like, no money, a few hundred dollars a month, then you're like, okay, then you must really, like, yeah, something's going on there. But if they're making like. Like, for example, everyone's got a price. Like, at least I can say for myself. Like, if someone wanted to pay me lots and lots of money to send them a picture of, like, my foot, for example, I might.

[Graham Allen]

Dude, remember the guy wanted to buy your shoes?

[Jack]

He did. And I was, there's a lot of.

[Brett Cooper]

Weird people out there.

[Jack]

Well, I heavily considered it.

[Graham Allen]

He was like, I think I was trying to negotiate the price up because he lowballed.

[Brett Cooper]

And I know you're like, not bad.

[Jack]

He told me he'd buy me a new pair of shoes. I posted on my Instagram, I'm like, time to retire these puppies. And it was just a picture of my, like, worn shoes. It was my. Not my feet, nothing. And then he swiped up and he's like, hey, can I. I'm there. I'm not. You shouldn't be done with this.

[Brett Cooper]

So weird.

[Jack]

There's some value in them. But anyways, everyone's got a price. I like to think, like, I know, you know, $10 million. You know, you know, I would. But anyways, and so I think it justifies it a little bit more. It makes it more relatable.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah. And it is hard for people to say that they don't have a price until you're, like, confronted with, you know, money, and then you decide whether to take it or say no to it. Which is funny because I, you know, I've sort of been in that situation now where it's like, I. Not in terms of only fans are selling, you know, feed pics or whatever, but of, you know, getting offers and going. That's really. This is not where, like, that's great money, but I don't want that. Um, and saying, I'd rather take a risk elsewhere or whatever it is and turning that down, which is very, very scary. But I. So I think it's good that you know, that there is a price. But I even think it's more black and white. I think that it probably makes it better in his eyes. Cause it's like, at least my daughter's making money. But again, as a father, it's like, I feel like you're. I don't know, disappointment. Or maybe it's. That's not even the word, but of just, like, saddening that that's what your daughter is doing. I've been so disappointed. Yeah, that's. Yeah.

[Graham Allen]

Here's some of. Of the difference. A lot of only fans, they won't be full nude. They'll just be, like, in a bikini.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah.

[Graham Allen]

And then you make the argument, like, what's the difference between me doing that on OnlyFans in a bikini and me being on the beach around a whole bunch of people? It's the same thing.

[Brett Cooper]

Well, I know. I think it's the act of selling it, because you know that it's for purpose. You know that you're sexualizing yourself. And I think also.

[Graham Allen]

But how is that different than going to the beach and wearing, like, a revealing outfit, knowing that, like, oh, I'm getting attention from the guys around me, or going to a festival, like, Coachella, having your cheeks.

[Brett Cooper]

I mean, maybe that's also the same thing. I think you have to be Very like self aware of your advices. Because, like, I look at that regard like, I would never do that. Like, I don't walk around like I'm covered up, like relatively modest. Not that I've like never worn a bikini, but it's like I don't walk around hoping that people are like gawking at me or whatever it is. But I do think there is a difference when money is traded. And I also think that there's something. I talked about this in a recent episode. Actually, it was the one that I did about the same. I mean, the whole Sheen family, Richard's family craziness, but that it's like, yeah, you might just be selling bikini photos or it's like more revealing of a photo. And you used to just post them on your Instagram, but now you're getting paid for them. But it's like, you know, you're taking advantage of the guys that are spending money and it's like, but they want.

[Graham Allen]

To give the money.

[Brett Cooper]

I know, but I think, but I think that there should be more of a social contract of knowing that that's not a good thing and that men who are engaging in this, like, you also are kind of being taken advantage of in a way because this is not good for you and they are using your vices.

[Jack]

It's like an addiction, you know, like for a drug dealer, for example, it's like, oh, they're both consenting to a transaction here.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah.

[Jack]

But at the same point, like the drug dealer has, you know, I think.

[Graham Allen]

The same with anything. That's the same with junk food, it's the same with casinos. It's the same with just about anything you could think of that people do on a daily basis and put no thought into it whatsoever.

[Brett Cooper]

Which is very true. But I think, think that in like selling your body online, I think that just has had such a detriment and you can argue for all of those things, especially, you know, junk food and the obesity crisis, that all of that has had detrimental impacts on society. And that's why I, you know, hope that RFK is able to turn things around. I'm a, you know, fan of his and I hope that we are able to, you know, both culturally and legislatively, like, turn things around for that sake. But we, it has had such a studied detrimental effect on both men and women and on families and on the dating landscape that it's like, I look at it and I'm just like, we have to be better. And maybe I'm looking at it in kind of this like, utopia idea of like, this is what I hope for people, but I do like. And what I, what I try to talk about in the episodes where I cover this is not, you know, we just need to ban this outright or whatever. But it's like at least acknowledge the fact fact that you are leaning into your vices and not having any control over them. Like if you're, if you're somebody that's paying for them and that if you are posting those photos of yourself, you are enabling people's vices. And I think that as human beings, we should raise ourselves to a standard of acknowledging that that's not a good thing, that's not a healthy thing. Now that requires self awareness, that requires discipline. But I also think that that's something that we should strive for as a society and encourage where it's like they're are nobler things that you could be doing with your life. Like, Sammy Sheen is literally the perfect example of you have every single opportunity available to you. If you want to be gawked out and sexualized or whatever, you know, it's fine. It's like, I mean, whatever. But to say that this is the only other option than working at a candy shop, it's like, that's a, that's a lie. That is you excusing and rationalizing your choice because you have been fed this idea idea, you know, that this actually is female empowerment. And for most people, they will not make the $4 million. They will not make the million dollars a month. That is an incredibly tiny percentage of the high earners on sites like OnlyFans or on the Playboy website, which also has their new subscription platform. The majority of people will make very, very minimal money and will be in a situation like Jack was talking about, where it's like you make maybe a couple hundred dollars a month, but you're posting these photos of yourself and you're leaning more and more heavily into it, which is like, that's not like, how is that?

[Graham Allen]

That's why you got to dip your toes in first.

[Brett Cooper]

You got to like, try a start with it.

[Graham Allen]

Start with feet and a bikini. And then as you make more, then you keep notching it up a little bit.

[Jack]

That's some really good advice, actually. So, guys, if you want consulting, you want to get into the business, I'll.

[Graham Allen]

Take out 25% is my fee.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah, there you go. New pictures. Yeah.

[Jack]

Okay. All right, well, speaking of potentially lower value men, let's change it to high value men.

[Brett Cooper]

Great.

[Jack]

Okay, what would you say is a high Value man. And what does Andrew Tate get wrong about it?

[Brett Cooper]

Oh, okay. Maybe this will get me into hot water. I think that a lot of things that I see online, especially from like the Andrew Tate's of the world, when they talk about high value men, they talk about a lot of materialistic things and whether or not that is the end goal and the root of what they're talking about, the way that they present themselves, it's like, I'm sorry, surrounded by these like Lamborghinis and these Bugattis and I'm so rich and I have these suits that are extremely too small and Taylor and it's just terrible. And I'm like sitting in this mansion smoking these cigars and it's like, that isn't masculinity like that? Like. And that kind of goes back to that question that that young man sent into me saying, like, I'm not that, like, I don't really crave that. Like, I don't. I hit the gym every day. I'm not, you know, getting some like 12 pack and I'm not super rich and I don't sit around with the bros like smoking cigars or. I think that the Andrew Tates of the world have contributed to an aesthetic and a visual idea of what manhood and high value manhood and the top G mindset or whatever looks like. Rather than focusing on what does a good man do? How does he treat the people in his community, in his family, how does he walk through the world? I think that that is far more important. Like at the end of the day. This episode is brought to you by Select Quote. Life insurance can have a huge impact.

[Graham Allen]

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[Brett Cooper]

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[Jack]

But would you have liked it if he had a Lamborghini?

[Brett Cooper]

I don't think it would have changed anything. I might have looked at it and been like, why did you buy that? Like, I. And it's like some.

[Jack]

So it would have actually went against.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah, probably because. But that's also just me personally. Personally.

[Jack]

He had a nice, nice watch.

[Brett Cooper]

I think it would have been fine. Like that wouldn't have been a turnout. But it also wouldn't. That wasn't something that I was seeing.

[Graham Allen]

You know what I think it is? I think it's the, it's the intention behind the purchase. If the intention is to show it off, then it's bad. But if the intention is I got this cool Lambo because I love it. Yeah, maybe that would be a little bit different.

[Brett Cooper]

For sure. If it's something that. It's like I'm a car guy, whatever. Like, you know, you have guys that, you know, collect Porsches and it's, you know, you see the like successful, you know, 40 year old guys and they have, like, they're really interested in this like specific type of car.

[Graham Allen]

That's cool.

[Brett Cooper]

It's like you are interested in something that wouldn't have been a turn off at all. It's like, okay, you have a hobby and an interest, but if you're walking around presenting yourself, trying to appear like you have this wealth and like you're flashy and like you're a macho dude, or if it's like, like you work out just for aesthetic purposes and you like spend a ton of time in the gym like flexing and looking at yourself. That's so weird. And it's like, that's not manhood.

[Jack]

So you're saying if your decisions are dictatorship, dictated by the external environment or.

[Brett Cooper]

Like your internal materialistic gains. Yeah.

[Jack]

Is determined from that, then that is, that is not good. You should be doing things.

[Brett Cooper]

You should be doing them because they're objectively good things and you, you should be pursuing good virtuous things with I think, good intentions. It's like you should go to the gym because you want to be healthy and feel good and be able to protect those that you care about. But yeah, in terms of the, the top GS of the world, like I don't need your hyper like tailored suits and weird fancy cars and cigars.

[Jack]

Seems like the suits are really the big thing.

[Graham Allen]

The loafers, really velvet loafers are just.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah. And I. Okay, so this is just a thing for me. I, nine times out of ten, hate, I hate it when men don't wear socks with loafers. Like I. And there is a specific loafer where it works like the, you know, like the like smoke, smoking the Smoking loafer or whatever.

[Graham Allen]

Tuxedo loafer.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah, like those. I get it. But when, like, I see guys out there now who wear, like, a traditional loafer that my dad might have worn to go work at, you know, the bank when I was growing up, and they might have, like, a tie, or they have a little buckle no socks, or they have the little no show socks. That is a whole other thing. If you take off your shoe and you're wearing, like. Like, tiny no show sock, and you've, like, slipped them out of your loafer. I was horrifying, horrible. That's just a pet peeve of mine. Maybe that's my hot take.

[Jack]

It sounds like that gives you the ick.

[Brett Cooper]

It does.

[Jack]

What else gives women the ick?

[Brett Cooper]

I think it's different for every woman. And I think that the ick thing bothers me because I think icks are just a normal part of, like, life. Like, everybody has, like, a thing that's like, okay, I don't want you to do that. Like, that just weirds me out. But I grew to a point on social media, and I think this just is, like, social contagion in it. Like, spiraling, and who knows how the implications that it actually had in the real world, but where people would be, like, posting videos of their boyfriend doing, like, a normal thing, being like, oh, I have the ick. I'm like. And girls in the comments saying, oh, my gosh, you have to break up with him. Like, one girl said, I remember watching a video, and she was like, my boyfriend walking up a hill gives me the ick.

[Graham Allen]

Is it just like, how he was?

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah, something like that. It's just like, something, Whatever. But I also think it's like, when you love somebody and you're in a committed relationship, it's like you might see things that are, you know, kind of funny. Like, I do things all the time that I know. Alex is like, he's more of a neat freak than I am. Uh, I don't even want to say neat freak. He's just like, everything has a place, and I'm gonna pick everything up, and I'm a little more bleh. And there are things I do that I know. He's like, this is like, how? Like, why does this woman do this? But I wouldn't. I don't think he would call it an ick. And there are certainly things that he does that I'll just kind of, like, giggle at, where I'm like, you really gonna wear, like, whatever he wears? And this is, like, a Totally normal thing. But when he goes to the gym in like the winter and he has like the leggings on and he like pulls his socks like all the way up over the leggings or whatever and I'm just like, it kind of looks funny. And he's like, who am I trying to impress? Like I'm married, it doesn't matter. I don't really care because I love him when we're married. But yeah, I think it's. It's very weird random things for women. Like the ones that I've seen like walking uphill, talking to a wait buying. Like a girl said that it was like an ick. Like the way her husband like scanned thing at this like at the self checkout line. Like it's so weird to me that.

[Graham Allen]

Seems like they're just looking for things.

[Brett Cooper]

And again that's like the social contagion part of like. Then it became something like you wanted to look for it and secretly film your spouse. Which I have another just major problem with of people, both husbands and wives, significant others of either gender. Like filming your spouse and then putting them online and like laughing about them in a post public way. And it could be as simple as like. I think there's sometimes where it's like very good natured and you're laughing, you're having a good time and that's totally fine. Where you're like posting him walking up a hill and it's like, oh, this is so worse. Then you have like millions of people because some of these videos go viral and the comments are like, oh my God, he's so weird. Whatever. It's like you might be laughing but I can't feel good to like have that happen. And then on like a higher.

[Jack]

He's gonna be so insecure.

[Brett Cooper]

Every time he walks up it's like that's not necessary. Like you want to be like supporting and encouraging your significant other. That's another. And then that kind of goes into this other thing of it's a very common thing to see women crap on their husbands or their boyfriends online. Like I'm gonna like make a video and be like my husband did this. Whatever. Why are you posting that on TikTok? Like go speak to him or call your mom if you need to talk to somebody about something.

[Graham Allen]

Rather than there's the one that Matt Walsh just posted, right? About the lady talking about the almost divorcing, almost got a divorce husband.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah.

[Graham Allen]

Who was like perfect on paper, but he didn't attune to her mental load. Of doing things. Yeah. With housework.

[Brett Cooper]

And when you get to, like, the. When you get past the, like, two and a half minute mark of the video, and she's kind of talking about how they worked through it. The video is kind of. It's like, okay, I get what you're trying to say. Like, you were both working. You felt like you were taking on more at the home, whatever. But she started it by being like, I almost divorced my husband. He wasn't doing this. He wasn't working, whatever. Where it was like, the video. And maybe this is just because people are chasing clicks and virality or whatever. And it's like you could have just said, in a marriage, it's really important to understand the workload that both of you are taking on and to have open communication. This is something my husband and I struggled with. And, you know, he really.

[Graham Allen]

Yeah, but that wouldn't have gotten you clicks.

[Brett Cooper]

No, it wouldn't have.

[Graham Allen]

So you had to, like, from an algorithm standpoint, her video is perfect. It.

[Brett Cooper]

It triggered right from the beginning, and she. But she does a lot of those videos. I've, like, seen a bunch of her stuff. And you never see your husband. Her husband's never. And unfortunately, a huge majority of her videos are about him and all the problems that they've had in their relationship. Now, it seemed like they're doing pretty well, but it's.

[Graham Allen]

But she seems like they're doing it.

[Brett Cooper]

I know. Yeah. Well, it's because it's always, like, things.

[Graham Allen]

He doesn't want to show his face anymore.

[Brett Cooper]

Why would he? And they're always about, like, we've worked through this now. So that's why I said, maybe they're doing fine. But also, I don't think I'd be fine if, like, Alex was online being like, God, Brett, never. So I don't ever screw lids on things. That's his biggest pet peeve of, like, I'll get a jar of mayo. I'll make a sandwich. I' leave it on the counter because I don't want to put it away before. I've gotten a lot better at this, but I want to go, like, eat my sandwich, and then I'll go back and I'll, like, pick everything up. But not only will I, like, leave it on the counter for 10 minutes, I will also leave it unscrewed. And so it might be like, the protein powder or whatever. And he picks it up by the top and it, like, goes everywhere. And it's like if he got online and made a whole video about, like, Brett made another sandwich, and she was doing this. So infuriating. She also, like, didn't yp somebody who, you know, washes off his dish every single time after he eats, and I'll just, like, drop it in the sink. That would be. It just wouldn't feel. Even if it's a small thing that I know I could do better at, and I do try, and I have gotten a lot better at it because it. It's just like a little thing that I can do to hopefully make his life a little bit easier. And also, it's ridiculous. Like, I can take the two seconds to, like, put something away and screw it on. It wouldn't feel good to have that blasted online. And it's like, you want to uplift the person that you love both in the home and in public. But women have gotten so comfortable, comfortable with this idea of ragging on men, especially their spouses, and posting about it. And again, I think that it's like, it started off as a more, you know, a. A minority, but with the social contagion aspect of it gets clicks. People are interested. They feel like they have people who are, you know, people pile on and they're like, yes, I'm affirming this is exactly what it is. And you just keep going. And they see the attention that they get, which I just don't think is healthy at all.

[Graham Allen]

All.

[Jack]

So those are unreasonable things that you could dislike about your partner. What would you say are reasonable things where if you see this, you should run, like, not like, just even a red flag, but like, an actual reasonable deal breaker that a guy could have towards a girl or a girl could have towards a guy.

[Brett Cooper]

And I can actually speak to some of the, like, conversations I've had with friends. I think the big ones that I've felt or that my friends and I have talked about are. I think the biggest one is a lack of impact ambition in a guy where I'm a huge proponent of, you know, you don't have to wait until your life is perfect to get married to start dating. Like, I don't think you have to be your final form. There's a lot of people who feel like I need to do all the things. I need to travel, and then I need to get the right house, my career needs to be in the right place. I need to, like, be at the right place with me, whatever, and then I'll, like, think about getting married. I think that it's like, you should know who you are and you should have your life together. You should not be a mess. But it doesn't matter. Matter if you haven't traveled all the places that you want to travel to yet, if you don't have the right job. It's like everything in our lives that we're doing now, like, traveling means so much more now that I get to go do it with Alex. Like, career wins are so much more meaningful because we're doing them together. Buying this, like, dream house is so special because it's our dream house and it's like we're building a life together. So that's kind of an aside of it. Like, a guy doesn't need to be all the way there. But I do think, especially if you are more traditional and you're looking for and you're dating intentionally and you want to get married. It's like you need to look for somebody who is, you know, has some gusto in their life and is wanting to make something of themselves. And it doesn't mean that they need to be on some track to make seven figures or whatever it is, but who wants to do something in the world and leave a lasting impact. And I think people often, like, will point to video games, be like, oh, he just sits around and makes video games, plays video games. I don't think video games are the root cause of it. I know a lot of very successful people who, like, my, like, female best friend is like a huge gamer, obsessed with video games. And she's also wildly successful in motivation, motivated. And Alex will play video games and he's incredibly successful and motivated. But it's that personnel, like the laziness and just the kind of like aimlessness. Maybe aimlessness is the right term where I think is a major turn off to a lot of women because it's like they, you know, want to get married, maybe they want to have kids, be safe, home. They don't want to be worried about, like, asking their husband to, like, could you please maybe get a job that makes you happy? Like, do you have something in your life that's motivating you? Like, would you be able to support us? Like, I'm not asking for a lot of things, but, like, would I be able to take them off? So I think that's like. And again, you don't have to be all the way there yet, but to show that you have some drive in your life, I think is really key. So that would be a major one for me. I think excessive drug and alcohol use, major, major turnoff. But again, some women are into that kind of stuff and you know, Go out and party and want to do whatever. But I am thinking about, like, my group of friends and what I was looking for. If somebody was, like, going out every night and drinking a ton and smoking a ton of weed or whatever, that would be a major. Like, our lifestyles are just not aligned. So that's a big one. Obviously excessive, like, physical violence is a huge one. Like, even if it's not directed at you, if there's somebody who can't control their tendencies and their emotions in that regard, I would be concerned about going into somebody's life in that regard. It's like, if you can't have a handle on that just in the outside world, then how are you gonna treat. Treat me? I think those are the top three ones.

[Graham Allen]

How would you design the ideal marriage contract in 2025?

[Brett Cooper]

Oh, gosh. I think the ideal marriage contract is something that has kind of already been tried and true in a way. Like, I don't think when I look at, like, a marriage contract, I don't see it as being like, the woman does this and works in this capacity and stays on. They have all these kids, whatever. But I think that the idea ideal marriage contract, in my mind, is serious mutual respect and understanding of each other's strengths and weaknesses and what you bring to the marriage, and understanding that there are roles that you will play and that that is a net good thing. Like, I know that there are. I know that there are things that I am not as skilled at, kind of as we were talking about earlier, and understanding that I'm not going to try to, you know, fit myself into that role or be angry that Alex is, you know, better at that than I am or whatever it is. But just having mutual respect and knowing that there are roles that you will probably play. And that was something that we talked about a lot. We did, like, premarital counseling. It wasn't a whole thing, but that was like the. Like, it wasn't a big curriculum or anything that we did, but we had premarital, like, meetings with the pastor that married us. And that was a big conversation. That was like, the crux of all the conversations actually, was, like, before you go into this, like, there's not gonna be one marriage that works for every single person. Everybody's marriage is gonna be different because everybody. Their relationships are different. Human beings are different. But you do have to kind of have some expectations and a plan for how things will go of, like, an understanding of each other's strengths and weaknesses. And if there is a big life change, a big Decision that you are making, who are you going to look to? Like, how are you going to handle. Handle that? Do you know how to communicate? Have you figured out how you both communicate? Do you trust Brett? Do you trust Alex to make that decision if he's going to make the final call? Are you marrying somebody that you completely trust to, you know, kind of take the lead in your household? And the answer is, like, an unequivocal yes. So, yeah, I don't know if there is, like, a specific, like, do's and don'ts, but in terms of my life and, like, the way that I see the world, I do think that there's as, you know, a head of household, basically in the way that I've described of a man taking on a leadership role, because I think that that provides a lot of stability, but that you can't have that without a really strong foundation. You can't have that without respect and understanding the role that you play and having each partner value that role.

[Jack]

Would the deal breakers be any different for a woman than it would be for. For a man? Like, are there certain very specific things that if women do, you should just stay away because it's indicative of some sort of thing?

[Graham Allen]

Jack's asking for himself.

[Brett Cooper]

Are you trying to figure out?

[Jack]

I kind of am, actually. Yeah.

[Brett Cooper]

I think that. I think a lot of them are very similar. So I think the. The partying is a big thing. If I was a guy that was wanting a more traditional marriage, is a more traditional guy like a girl that is sleeping around or going out and partying and getting drunk every night, I would probably be concerned about that. Unless that's something you're really into, and then you guys can do it together. I have friends that are like, love raves, and they go and they rave together, and that's, you know, that's part of their relationship. But they're also not like, the most. They don't have the most traditional marriage. So I think that is probably pretty aligned. I also don't think that you need to. I think the reasons for drive and ambition are gonna be different for a woman and a man. But I do think men also, and I was literally just going through this with a friend of mine and hearing his, you know, feelings about this. But I do think it is also important for men, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but for a woman that you're interested in to have some kind of purpose in her life, to be driven by something, not to be, like, aimless or just, like, hoping that somebody's gonna take care of her. She's just like, bopping from one guy to another. But to have something that gives her life meaning and be driven by something, because I think that that just makes a person more interesting. I think it also goes that. And I don't mean like, has some career that she's chasing or whatever, but has something that she cares about that she looks for, whether that is, you know, being a mother and really wants to be a mom, or whether she genuinely loves what she does because it provides meaning to her life or has a hobby and an interest that she dedicates a lot of time to. I think that that shows. I think it shows that somebody is interesting and multifaceted. I think it shows, um, gives you insight into their personality. I also think something that I forgot to mention. I was actually talking to Alex about this the other day. He was saying, like, I had dogs as a single woman and he didn't. And he was like, I don't think I would ever get, like, a pet as a single person. Uh, and I actually responded to that and I was like, it is actually when I was dating, I was like, I would love it if a guy either had, like a dog, had some animal to take care of, or owned a home and had to, like, be responsible for a piece of property. And obviously in this economy, that's like, a lot to ask. But it was less about the tangible, like, physical item and more so that he is showing that he is responsible for something. Like, responsible for another life, responsible for, you know, paying a mortgage on time and taking care of, like, he's saved up enough to buy this house and he cares for it. I mean, you obviously talk so much about real estate, but of what goes into to managing that and having that be part of your life. And it was less, again, it was less about, like, I really want you to have a dog. I really want you to be a house. But it shows that, okay, you care for something, you have to keep something up. You are. You're indebted to somebody and you have to show up for them. Like, you can't just, like, leave a dog and go, you know, screw around for, like, months at a time or, you know, not care for them. So that was. I think that also goes back to, you know, having drive, having ambition, and showing that you're responsible for something. And I think that that's good for men to look for in women as well, of that they can have responsibility that they are a partner that will show up for you. I. I'm having kind of trouble articulating why I think it's so important that people are.

[Jack]

I'm getting what you're.

[Brett Cooper]

What you're saying have a purpose.

[Jack]

Yeah. For me, I. I like ambition.

[Brett Cooper]

Yeah.

[Jack]

In a partner. Because I don't want me to be the center of their world.

[Brett Cooper]

Yes. Like, I want them to have something great. Way to put it.

[Jack]

That they can focus on outside of me because I also have other things that I want to focus on. And I would feel like there's a, you know, an imbalance there if she was just always texting me, always trying to reach out, always involved.

[Brett Cooper]

I think for some women where. I think women say one thing online where they're like, oh, I want him to, like, text me back into all, you know, whatever. But if a guy is only texting you 247 and is own, like, revolving around you, I think that that's also. Because then you see the flip side of that where, you know, women will make videos and post those chats. I'm like, my God, why is he texting you so much? It's like, you can't win in that situation, but it just shows that you have a life and taking care of.

[Jack]

That's the answer. Wait to text.

[Brett Cooper]

Wait to text.

[Jack]

Text right back. Wait to text.

[Graham Allen]

Okay, so I'm curious, in terms of career going back to, you know, your start, why do you think the comments section blew up so much and what were some of the struggles with those early days on YouTube?

[Brett Cooper]

I think think that it was multifaceted. Comment section definitely filled a niche, and I know that it was like a. A niche that. Where there was a hole because I felt it as a young person, like, comment section really kind of grew out of necessity in a lot of ways. I had even. It was a. If you watch the preview to the Sean Ryan episode he put. Which I don't really know if he, like, fully described, but at the top of the preview, there's, like, a video of me, and I'm doing, like, this little, like, I have my, like, leg, and I look like I'm in a studio and I'm talking about, like, this cultural issue. That was a pilot that I filmed back in 2021, and I pitched it to, like, Young Americans for Liberty and Prageru and whatever. I was like, I think that there should be a show like this because I'm a young woman. I just feel like I'm pretty, like, normal middle America. And I listened to people like Dennis Prager. And granted, I was more, like, politically inclined. I was interested in politics. But I listened to, you know, Ben Shapiro and I would watch his like debates on YouTube and I would listen to Jordan, whatever, but I didn't see anybody that was like speaking to me. Like there were very few women and there were very few young people. Like Will Witt was the only young conservative that I saw. Not even like conservative conservative, but just like not liberal. And I felt like there was that gap. So I came up with a show idea where I would have like kind of inspired by Emma Chamberlain actually, where she had all of these like fun cuts and memes and like sound effects. And it was very like poppy and silly and fun and attention grabbing because I, I know for myself that it's hard to hold Gen Z's attention. And so that was part of it. And I created this and Prager U didn't pick it up and it just didn't like have a home anywhere. And so I was working at Young Americans for Liberty as just like a marketing strategist and doing their social media videos. But in that they had had me be in a lot of their videos, kind of like at Prager U where I was just filming like TikToks for them and that kind of thing. So Daily Wire had seen me and then when they, they ended up bringing me in and we had a meeting, their idea for a show from their social media team was very aligned with what I had designed in this pilot. And the reasons were the same. And the entire team that worked with me on comment section at the beginning, they were all young people. They were all like in their early 20s and they were like, we don't have this kind of show that's like a reactionary news show that's young, that isn't like some 35 year old guy in a suit. It's not some woman in a pantsuit on, you know, Fox or, or AP or whatever it is. And we want to create this. And they had already. They had also been thinking about like the fun edits and the fun memes because they were like, we need something that's like attention grabbing, that's funny, that's humorous, it's light hearted. So they, it was like we all kind of had to have a meeting of the minds. So I think that was probably indicative of a broader trend of people just wanting something like this. So I think that helped to take off immediately. We did no paid advertising, we put no paid behind the show, nothing like that. And obviously it helped that, you know, the Daily Wire circuit was helping promote, promote it. But I Also had a very different audience. Like, my audience very quickly became, like, not the Daily Wire fandom. That became, like, a very small portion of it. And it just took off. And I think that. So, yeah, that kind of perfect concoction of people didn't have that at the time. I think there's a lot more of that now, which is awesome. There's tons of shows that are like, comment section, especially on the right. More reactionary shows. More streamers have popped up, which is awesome. I think more content is better. I love when people turn on a camera and talk about their belief and show people that they're not alone in having these common sense, conservative ideas. So that really took off. And I also think the humor aspect of it really spoke to people because politics is so. Politics in this culture war, especially in 2021 and 2022, so intense and was so angry, and it still is. It was like a different kind of vitriol in 2022, where, I mean, everybody was slinging insults, right? And left cities were burning, people were marching. It was awful. It was hostile. And the political news and the cultural, like, podcasts I would listen to were all very intense. And I was like, the world's gonna end if we don't do this. It's really serious. And they were, like, serious on both ends. Nobody was having any fun. And I look at politics as kind of like reality tv. And I always say this. It's like, it's serious, but it's also insane. Like, a lot of the stuff that we went through over the past five years and the issues that we've been dealing with, they're kind, like. They're kind of crazy, like, even. And you can always find humor in everything. And I think I'm probably more adept at this because of my childhood, where it's like, I went through a lot of pretty serious stuff, and I was able to find the light in it. And I'm even, You know, I'm able to look back on my childhood and laugh at some of the insane things that I witnessed with my brother and my dad. And it's just kind of like, that's life. If you're not laughing, you're crying, basically. And that's kind of the approach that I took with culture and politics of, yeah, this is objectively serious, but there's also, like, a lot of hilarious stuff. Like, we just need to be able to, like, stop and say, like, we're kind of going crazy here. And I think that's why my audience grew to not just be like, super conservative people that were interested in politics, but just normal people and even people on the left who are looking around in the world and going, why are we not admitting that this is just insane? And, like, being able to laugh at this? Because maybe it's not always as serious as people are telling us. Maybe it's not always as serious as people on the news or the, you know, the big politico podcasters are saying. And. And I also felt that need, like, I enjoyed doing the show because I had so much fun, because I was able to laugh at things and watch funny videos and find humor in it. So I think the humor and the format played into it. And I also think there's. And this is something that's so weird to say, but I think that there's, like. I don't know, I resonated with a lot of people. I think it's sort of what we were talking about earlier, which creates problems because then I have to have the conversations of, you know, what do I want to share and how public do I want to be and what do I want to keep private? But I was very open, and I went into Daily Wire saying that, like, I want to keep a social media presence. I want to invite people into my life. I want to be able. I don't want to just sit behind a mic and talk about the news. I want people to know me for who I am. Because I always felt like if I knew who somebody was and knew sort of their story and, you know, their background, I would be able. Able to kind of resonate and trust them more. Because I could watch Talking Heads all the time. But if I don't really like what makes you tick.

[Graham Allen]

Yeah.

[Brett Cooper]

Like, what built you into who you are? Like, why do you have the values that you have? And I always thought that was really important to share. It's like, I didn't just come out of the womb, like, fully formed with these ideas. Like, I learned them over time. And I have life experiences that have. That have led me to these and have caused me to change my ideas. And so I think me being very open and upfront about a lot of things and involving my personal life and my childhood and stories and things that friends and I were talking about. Like, if I was doing a cultural issue about young people, you know, I would bring in stories, you know, things that my friends and I were dealing with, which you didn't really see on, you know, you don't see that on a traditional, like, political show. And so it became less about, like, politics and More about Brett and humor and common sense and kind of giving people a. A safe, funny place in the world where they could go.

[Graham Allen]

Do you operate more on logic or intuition?

[Brett Cooper]

I think it's a mix. I'm definitely very logically driven. Like, I have somebody who leads with my head a hundred percent. Like, that's where I. If my head is there, I can get my heart there, basically. And I definitely, like, my default is going through things logically and muddling through issues. But I am also. I follow my gut, for sure, and I'm somebody who trusts my gut and believes it. So I don't think you can have either or. But I definitely lead more with logic.

[Jack]

And was leaving the Daily Wire more of a decision out of logic or intuition?

[Brett Cooper]

Oh, that's a good question. It was both. I think that, you know, I basically said all that I can say about what led to me leaving and everything that transpired. But I think, you know, I'm really, really grateful for what we created, obviously. And I loved doing comment section. I loved building comment section. I think it was just such a. It was a light in my life, and I hope that it was a light in a lot of people's lives, and it obviously made a huge splash, and it was really great for those three years. And I think in life, you kind of have to know, and this is where it's, like, logical and kind of gut. You kind of have to know when things have run their course, whether it's a relationship in your personal life or in business or something that you are, you know, creating and putting out in the world. And so I think it was a mixture of both. Of kind of logically being like, okay, I think this is it.

[Graham Allen]

What was the moment that you knew that you had to move on?

[Brett Cooper]

I don't know if I can pinpoint. There was not a specific thing or a moment, but it was last summer. It was just. I felt like things had changed in my life and what I wanted had changed. And I looked forward into what I saw as my future and did a lot of, I think, digging and hard conversations with family and friends and Alex about what I was excited about in my life and who I wanted to work with and the autonomy that I wanted to have. It was a huge thing, having autonomy, and it was kind of like a. Just basically a slow burn. But last spring really started the thought in my head of basically just like, what's next? And what do I need to put into play in order to build the life that. That I see for myself that Alex And I see for each other, and that required taking a pretty big leap.

[Graham Allen]

Was there anything that they could have done to have kept you?

[Brett Cooper]

Um, everybody has their.

[Graham Allen]

Their number.

[Brett Cooper]

I wouldn't even say number. I wouldn't even say number. I'd say, you know, terms. Yeah.

[Graham Allen]

Okay.

[Brett Cooper]

But truly, there is a. I think I'm grateful that we walked away when that, like, we separated when we did. I think that that was. There was a natural ending there. And a lot has changed at the company recently, and they've undergone a lot of executive changes, and I really hope for the best, especially because it's like, I think people see me and they think that there's some. It was the same thing kind of happened when Candace left, when everybody was like, oh, there's this pig. And hers was obviously a lot more volatile than mine. And there's a lot that has become more public and has been. Has played out publicly. But, you know, they think that, like, she was not friends with me, Michael, or Matt anymore and that we never associated with her. It's like. It's hard. Business relationships end, and you move on and you start new things, but you still care about the people that are there. It's like Matt and his wife, you know, Alyssa. They're great friends. Alyssa's a really wonderful friend of mine. Michael Knowles is still an incredible mentor of mine. And somebody look to. Ben is wonderful. Ben and I have, like, never had a bad interaction. He was a very, very generous mentor while I was there. And I. So I will never look at, you know, what they're doing and go, I left. To hell with you. Whatever it is, it's like, no, I. I hope that what they're doing really works. And I, you know, for the sake of the people that I love there, I hope, you know, Matt and Michael keep producing amazing things, and I love their show. So I think it's. People see one thing, and then there's another thing that happens, you know, off screen and offline. So, yeah, I wish the best, but I think it was. It was a natural ending at the right time.

[Graham Allen]

What was the most difficult part of branching out on your own?

[Brett Cooper]

Not knowing what I didn't know. Like, of just having to branch into something completely independently when I had had, like, a kind of a company. I mean, not kind of a company. I had a company behind me. And there's sort of some misconceptions because some people thought that I was, like, totally produced. Like, and they also think this about, like, Matt and Michael, too, of, like, they come in and their show is written for them, and they sit down and they get their hair and makeup done, and they're just like a mouthpiece. But all of us, like, we all researched our own shows. We would have people that would, you know, help us pull a story or whatever and would be running the cameras. But we. I wrote every single episode of the show that I did, and I put the story together. I drove the creation of it, as Michael did, as Matt did, as Ben does. Ben writes his own show every single morning. His, like, four hours of airtime, whether he's doing radio or whatever, he does all of that. He does the mental load. And so that was not hard. So I think a lot of people there was like, oh, is Bret not going to be as, like, smart now that she doesn't have, like, a team of Daily Wire writers ready for her? I was like, okay, well, that, you know, that was actually one thing that kind of got to my head of like, oh, my God, am I. Are people going to, like, see me differently? Or whatever? But it was always me. So if they liked me, they were going to hopefully still like me then when I left. But it was mainly the technical side of things. Like, they had hired the editors and they managed my advertising, and I was a W2 employee, so I never had to worry about 1099s or having business expenses. Like, my taxes were all super easy. That kind of thing. Figuring out how to hire people, that sort of thing. Do I want. Want a. Do I want to sell my ads internally? How do I want. Now that I have complete control over how I advertise on the show, how do I want to do that? Is there a more innovative way that I could do that? You know, now, do I financially. Do I need to do 10 shows a week, or am I happy doing two?

[Graham Allen]

So as far as how your business works now, how. How is the income generated? Like, how does it work? What's your seem like?

[Brett Cooper]

So the majority of it comes from advertising, whether that is, like, programmatic ads on YouTube or the sponsors that we bring on, which I'm very, very particular about how we do advertising. And we have created the model internally, and so we manage it internally, which is what I wanted to do, at least to start out with the show, because I, you know, for the last three years, had had somebody else managing everything and selling the ads and, you know, having the direct relationship with the advertisers. And I wanted to change that, at least as I was starting, because I just had no idea how it worked. And I wanted to have something that worked for me and my values and my audience and the show and where I wanted it to go. So, yeah, the majority comes from our incredible advertisers. And every single advertiser that I work with, we know personally, we have a personal relationship with their executive team. These are brands that I actually, actually use in my life. Like, I don't, I don't take on advertisers that I can't fully stand behind because I think everybody online is trying to sell you something. That's how creators make money. Like, you will always have programmatic ads. You will have, you'll be selling a course or a subscription or whatever it is. And I want to make sure that again, going back to this idea that everything is really intentional. I want to make sure that if I'm bringing somebody onto the show that I'm giving them an endorsement that I can a hundred percent stand behind it. That I love the people, that I love the message of the company, that I love the product. Um, and those are personal relationships as well as professional. So the majority of it is advertising. And then I make a small portion from a subscription platform that I have called Cooper Confidential, where I do those advice videos and I have a more personalized newsletter and people can watch ad free episodes. Um, but by far the most significant is advertising.

[Graham Allen]

And then how many people are on your team? Like, what does it look like?

[Brett Cooper]

Let me count. I have a, A Alex who works on my ad sales and we're expanding that team possibly soon, but. Right. It's literally just been him creating the entire program. And then I have a manager, I have a producer who's a technical producer. And I've basically just been producing everything myself in terms of, you know, creating the show and branding stuff. And then I have a manager. And we just brought on a more creative producer. Producer to hopefully just help grow and innovate and drive everything that we're doing from the subscription model to the show. Just because I think I need some creative support in that regard just so I can kind of. I think it's really hard when your brand is you and it's hard to like step outside of that and think of like driving the creative forward. So I'm bringing her in and she's somebody that I've worked with before. And then we have someone who I've also worked with previously who manages all my posting. So he does all, all the SEO, gets the thumbnails made, helps with titling. I end up picking the titles, but it's like, hey, here's the direction. I. He puts the, you know, the descriptions together, make sure it gets uploaded to all the correct RSS feeds. Um, so, yeah, that's the same that I have a publicist and an attorney and they're all like, it's pretty lean.

[Graham Allen]

Yeah.

[Brett Cooper]

Um, but the best part is it's like it's growing, but I'm very intentional with how it grows. And it's all people that, like, I genuinely, genuinely love and who I implicitly trust. Because again, very complicated when it's like, you're the brand and I'm very careful about how I'm, you know, how I represent myself publicly and the messages that I put out in the world. And I want to make sure that whoever I bring on has my best interests at heart and has the brand's best interests at heart, which I think is hard to find. I feel very, very fortunate. So they're all just really, really incredibly talented, but also just wonderful, wonderful people who I trust. And that was super important to me.

[Jack]

All right, so we gotta wrap it up, but we have some rapid fire questions. I asked ChatGPT for some questions and usually it doesn't, it doesn't do a great job. This is a hilarious question. I want to, I want to ask it to you from ChatGPT. Who do you think is smarter, Andrew Tate or Jordan Peterson?

[Brett Cooper]

Oh, Jordan Peterson.

[Jack]

Do women have too much dating power in today's society?

[Brett Cooper]

Yes.

[Jack]

Is it worse to be poor or lonely?

[Brett Cooper]

Lonely.

[Jack]

Do influencers contribute to society or drain it?

[Brett Cooper]

Oh, depends on the influencer.

[Jack]

Is therapy culture ruining resilience?

[Brett Cooper]

Yes.

[Jack]

Should employers be able to see your only fans or TikTok before hiring you?

[Brett Cooper]

Oh, I think they already do. It's public knowledge.

[Jack]

Should kids under 13 be banned from having smartphones?

[Brett Cooper]

Banning is hard, but I think parents should be strict and not allow it.

[Jack]

If a couple disagrees on politics, can they make it work in the long, long term?

[Brett Cooper]

Yes, but I think that's becoming increasingly difficult in 2025. I think 30 years ago, yes, my aunt and uncle did it, but today they actually are on the same page because their values are the same and they kind of had to converge. I think in 2025 it's very different.

[Jack]

Should voting require a basic civics test?

[Brett Cooper]

For sure. And citizenship and an id?

[Jack]

Does universal basic income ever make sense.

[Brett Cooper]

In a utopia society? Yes, but a lot of things would make sense in a utopia society where there is a strict social construct or contract, where everything is perfect and there are no, there are no outliers. I don't think it works in our society today.

[Jack]

Brett, thank you so much for coming on the show. What a pleasure.

[Graham Allen]

Thank you.

[Jack]

Thank you to the team here. Thanks, Graham.

[Graham Allen]

Thank you.

[Jack]

Thank you, guys. Thank you, Nashville.

[Brett Cooper]

Love it.

[Jack]

Thank you to the studio.

[Graham Allen]

If you could tell them to subscribe. Sometimes they don't listen to us.

[Brett Cooper]

Subscribe. You should absolutely subscribe to this podcast because it is popping off and they do amazing interviews, and they interview people on all sides of the spectrum from so many different industries. I'm giving them the greatest pitch ever right now. It's literally an insane podcast. You should subscribe.

[Graham Allen]

Thank you so much, guys. Do it. It's free. It's free. Till next time.