“I Regret Nothing!” Clavicular Exposes The Dark World Of Looksmaxxing, Attraction & Extreme Surgery

Summary

The Iced Coffee Hour – Episode Summary

Episode Title: “I Regret Nothing!” Clavicular Exposes The Dark World Of Looksmaxxing, Attraction & Extreme Surgery
Date: December 28, 2025
Hosts: Graham Stephan & Jack Selby
Guest: Claviculum

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode dives deep into the controversial world of "looksmaxxing" through the perspective of Claviculum, a prominent figure in the self-improvement and looksmaxxing community. The hosts explore Claviculum’s journey, his unfiltered takes on appearance, masculinity, the lengths people go to in pursuit of attractiveness—including extreme pharmaceuticals and surgeries—and the broader social implications. The conversation is candid, sometimes provocative, and scrutinizes both the appeal and dangers of the looksmaxxing movement.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Looksmaxxing Mindset and Philosophy

• Looksmaxxing is presented as a never-ending journey: "There’s no end goal to looksmaxxing. The only real goal is to get better looking, no matter what it takes.” (Claviculum, 00:47)
• The importance of looks is emphasized above all: “If you aren’t good looking, no one’s going to take your opinion seriously.” (Claviculum, 00:32)
• Halo Effect: Good looks influence perception of personality and opportunities. “People will perceive your personality, your interests, your hobbies vastly different if you’re good looking versus not.” (04:09)

2. Early Beginnings & “Doing Whatever It Takes”

• Claviculum started using performance enhancers at age 14, seeing them as an obvious shortcut to results in bodybuilding, inspired by figures like Rich Piana. “It seemed more ridiculous to not take at the time than... to take them...” (07:11)
• Parents disapproved, sometimes trying to intercept packages, but he continued undeterred. (08:16)
• Early mistakes led to looking “worse” initially: “The gym was kind of something that looks mended me at the start...” (09:30)

3. The Measures and Costs of Looksmaxxing

• Practices span the spectrum from gym routines and diet (“softmaxing”) to extreme pharmaceuticals, peptides, and surgeries.
• Annual spending: “I probably spend around $50,000 to $80,000 a year just on like peptides.” (Claviculum, 11:46)
• He’s planning double jaw surgery ($35,000) to boost his looks by an estimated 1.5 “points” on a 10-point scale. (27:07)
• Intelligence maxing and nootropics are part of the same mentality. (12:27)

4. Societal Observations: Dating and Hypergamy

• Claviculum argues that the rise of online dating and social media has globalized competition, making it much harder for average men (“globalization of dating,” 31:16).
• He attributes modern dating struggles for average men less to personality, more to looks and systemic biases. “There is this huge purgatory zone where even the average to above average looking man... can’t even find a sexual partner...” (30:01)
• “Women are always looking for, like, the next best thing. They’re extremely hypergamous in nature.” (34:35)

5. Risks, Extremes, and Regrets

• While open about his own experimentation, Claviculum repeatedly advises viewers not to copy his extreme approaches (e.g., using stimulants to suppress appetite, early steroid use):
  • “I would not advocate for that.” (50:06)
  • “Do not take stimulants. Do not try to copy what I’m doing.” (82:15)
• Minimal regrets: “There’s nothing that like went horrendously wrong per se...” (50:38)
• He acknowledges side effects and potentially dangerous practices but generally just avoids those elements moving forward rather than regrets.

6. “Life Maxxing” and the Role of Status

• The hosts and Claviculum debate the relative roles of looks, status, and money (“looks, money, status triad”) in success and attracting women.
• While fashionable clothes, cars, and luxury watches are elements of status, Claviculum sees looks as the “easiest thing to jump and a huge increase in percentiles” but not the only path. (73:55)
• He finds the “flex culture” of luxury goods largely performative and suggests that true advancement comes from a blend of metrics—not just spending on status symbols. (77:53)

7. Softmaxing – Practical Advice

• Top recommendations:

  • Keep a low body fat percentage (“The easiest thing that you could do...” 23:49)

  • Get a tan (Melanotan peptide for quick results, 55:36)

  • Hair loss protocols (finasteride, minoxidil, possibly dutasteride, 56:41)

  • Good grooming, teeth whitening, grooming eyebrows, etc.

  • Use of Botox as prevention, not after aging has already occurred (61:07)

  • Importance of adequate sun protection via proper sunscreen (61:49)

  • "Looksmaxing is not a time intensive thing whatsoever. It’s very simple. It’s just a few principles to follow. Like, you know, the main one being maintaining a low body fat, you know..." (Claviculum, 22:48)

8. Controversies, Social Bans, and Public Image

• Claviculum is currently banned from Instagram and YouTube, largely due to content regarding pharmaceuticals/peptides.
• He emphasizes “authenticity,” claiming it’s the reason for his rapid social media growth, even at the cost of brand deals.
  • “I blow brand deals all the time, you know, just by, you know, being authentic.” (41:52)
• He distances himself from performative “influencer” culture (41:52).

9. Ethics and Motivation

• Ends justify the means: “I don’t necessarily care too much about, like, what I need to do to accomplish a result...” (93:02)
• Views happiness as secondary to “mission” or “ambition.” “I have like no regard for my happiness. That seems like a very immature idea.” (94:25)
• Admits to being somewhat emotionally detached and possibly “neurodivergent,” seeing it as a benefit to his focus and drive. (87:09)

10. Personal Reflections & Final Thoughts

• Insists he is “misunderstood,” often viewed as impulsive but claims to be highly calculated. (81:33)
• Minimal regrets (“I regret nothing!”), but acknowledges he could be “a little bit more respectful and have more humility.” (82:26)
• Severe mission orientation; happiness is not a priority, content creation is: “my overall well-being would certainly have taken a hit from like the content that I'm doing. But it’s worth it.” (95:17)
• Advocates social skill development for young men through work experiences like restaurant jobs. (103:36)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Claviculum on the point of looksmaxxing:
  “There’s no end goal to looksmaxxing. The only real goal is to get better looking, no matter what it takes.” (00:47)

• On the impact of looks:
  “If you aren’t good looking, no one’s going to take your opinion seriously.” (00:32)

• On regret:
  “There’s nothing that I regret doing. There’s nothing that like went horrendously wrong per se.” (50:38)

• On authenticity:
  “I blow brand deals all the time, you know, just by, you know, being authentic… I’m not, like, performative for the cameras.” (41:52)

• On manipulating women:
  “A lot of the stuff with women is not how interesting you are at all. Right. It’s more like just psychological, like tactics like manipulating women. Really it’s like a big part of it.” (90:27)

• On happiness:
  “I have like no regard for, for like my happiness. Like that seems like a very like, immature idea.” (94:25)
  “Men aren’t like supposed to be like happy. I don’t really think.” (94:34)

• On moral systems:
  “I don’t necessarily care too much about, like, what I need to do to accomplish a result, if that’s what you’re asking.” (93:02)

• On being neurodivergent and driven:
  “Well, I may be neurodivergent. Like, I’d say that’s probably, probably one of my strong suits and what makes me like able to succeed as a person.” (87:09)

• On "bone smashing":
  “I bone smash after puberty.” (85:50)
  “Bone smashing… it’s really funny.” (85:58)
  (Explains using controlled trauma to facial bones to promote growth—highly controversial practice.)

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Timestamps for Crucial Segments

• Intro to Looksmaxxing Philosophy: 00:29 – 01:24
• Early Use of Performance Enhancers: 06:55 – 08:43
• Online Impact of Looks, Society/Hypergamy: 31:16 – 34:53
• Expense and Scope of Looksmaxxing: 11:39 – 12:27
• Debate: Looks vs Confidence/Personality: 18:24 – 20:26
• Controversial and Extreme Practices: 46:10 – 50:06 (Drug use)
• Softmaxing Tips: 23:44 – 24:38
• Plastic Surgery Plans: 26:36 – 27:39
• Ethics and Motivation: 93:02 – 93:22
• Thoughts on Happiness vs Ambition: 94:25 – 95:59
• Personal Life, Insecurity, Social Skills: 101:32 – 104:36
• Practical Advice & Life Maxxing: 103:36 – 104:36

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Original Tone & Language

This episode is raw, unfiltered, sometimes bordering on shock-jock delivery. The guest’s delivery is matter-of-fact and analytical, frequently unbothered by moral or social norms. The hosts push back at points, expressing skepticism and highlighting the dangers and downsides. Humor surfaces via the group’s frankness about extreme methods and the sometimes absurd terminology of the looksmaxxing community.

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Summary Table: Quick Reference

| Segment | Time | Key Points / Quotes | |----------------------------|------------|-----------------------------------------| | Looksmaxxing Philosophy | 00:29–01:24| “No end goal... get better looking” | | Enhancement Origins | 06:55–08:43| Started steroids at 14, parents disapproved | | Hypergamy & Competition | 31:16–34:53| “Globalization of dating” | | Cost of Looksmaxxing | 11:39–12:27| $50k–$80k/yr on peptides | | Drug/Stimulant Use | 46:10–50:06| Not recommended, for productivity/appetite | | Softmaxing Basics | 23:44–24:38| Be lean, get tan, grooming | | Surgery Plans | 26:36–27:39| Double jaw, $35k, +1.5 points | | Ethics/Ends Justify Means | 93:02–93:22| “Don’t care too much... to accomplish a result” | | Happiness vs Ambition | 94:25–95:59| “No regard for happiness” | | Personal Life/Skills |101:32–104:36| Social skills via restaurant work |

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a deep, sometimes uncomfortable look into the extremes of modern self-improvement culture, where the lines between health, vanity, and authenticity blur. Claviculum is both a cautionary example and, for some, an aspirational figure—advocating for radical honesty and relentless pursuit of personal metrics while disavowing traditional motivators like happiness or moral qualms. Listeners are left to weigh the costs, both financial and psychological, of “maxxing” every facet of their lives—and to decide what kind of improvement really matters.

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This summary captures the episode’s main points, social context, and most memorable exchanges. All advice should be approached critically and with professional consultation.

Transcript

[Jack]

Shopping is hard, right?

[Claviculum]

But I found a better way.

[Jack]

Stitch Fix Online Personal styling makes it easy. I just give my stylist my size.

[Claviculum]

Style and budget preferences.

[Jack]

I order boxes when I want and how I want. No subscription required.

[Claviculum]

And he sends just for me pieces.

[Jack]

Plus outfit recommendations and styling tips.

[Claviculum]

I keep what works and send back the rest. It's so easy.

[Jack]

Make style easy. Get started [e-mail] Spotify that's stitchfix.com Spotify.

[Graham]

So why do so many people believe that looks don't matter?

[Claviculum]

It's easy to convince yourself if you're, you know, not an attractive person that this is not a metric that matters when it's arguably one of the most important for your overall well being. If you aren't good looking, no one's going to take your opinion seriously.

[Graham]

What's the point of it all? Like, what's the end goal?

[Claviculum]

There's no end goal to looksmaxing. The only real goal is to get better looking, no matter what it takes.

[Jack]

Why do you think you have become so popular over the past few months?

[Claviculum]

I would say because of my authenticity with everything that I do. Even if it might make me be perceived a little worse. He's got the worst of both traits.

[Jack]

The worst of the men combined with the worst of the women.

[Graham]

So we previously had Greg Doucet on the podcast.

[Claviculum]

Oh geez.

[Graham]

He sent over a few questions he wanted to ask Claviculum.

[Jack]

How much do you consider morals with what you do and preach online?

[Claviculum]

I don't necessarily care too much about, like, what I need to do to accomplish a result, if that's what you're asking.

[Jack]

Hey guys, a quick disclaimer on this episode before we start. We on the Ice Coffee Hour firmly believe in hearing out every single perspective. We like to consider ourselves a self improvement podcast. And so this mentality has been gaining a lot of ground in the self improvement movement niche. So we decided to hear him out. Of course, go into everything with a healthy level of skepticism and curiosity. He says a lot of stuff on this podcast that's a little inflammatory. We didn't want to have an approach of saying, no, you can't say that, and policing what he can and can't say. So we heard him out. No filters. Let us know what you guys think. And of course, if you're considering doing any of this stuff, talk to a professional. Don't just go out on your own and do it. Let us know what you guys think about this episode. And if you want more content like this. Thank you so much for watching. Appreciate every single one of you onto the episode Clavicular. Thank you so much for coming on the Iced coffee hour podcast.

[Claviculum]

Absolutely.

[Jack]

I gotta ask, which social medias are you banned from?

[Claviculum]

I am banned from Instagram and YouTube right now.

[Jack]

Do you know why you got banned?

[Claviculum]

Something to do with like the new AI moderation system. I had one of my live accounts taken down that uploads like my kick vods, which are, you know, pretty over the line, so. And then for some reason I got my main channel flagged. Even though there was no correlation between the channels.

[Jack]

They didn't give you an actual reason as to exactly why.

[Claviculum]

I believe it was for talking about pharmaceuticals. And something peptide related is a no go on YouTube.

[Jack]

Now, did your business take a big hit from these social media accounts being banned?

[Claviculum]

Not really. That's not my main source of, of revenue. Uh, YouTube is, is kind of just like a side project and I use that to post a lot of my like, informational content. So YouTube actually operates at a loss for me. Hmm.

[Jack]

So your main thing is to get to look as good as you possibly can, taking whatever measures ne to be. What would you call an Adam or.

[Claviculum]

A Chad, Something like that. Yeah, there's a lot of like, terminology out there. I just think of it as improving. I don't really have like an end goal in mind. Like, I know that looks maxing is a pretty much never ending process. Like there's really no looks max that you could achieve. So just seeing like how far you can go, you know, what you can achieve is kind of my mentality.

[Graham]

So why do so many people believe that looks don't matter?

[Claviculum]

It's a lot of cope. It's a lot of people living in delusion fantasy land. Because it's easy to convince yourself if you're, you know, not an attractive person, that this is not a metric that matters when it's arguably one of the most important for your overall well being.

[Graham]

How much would you say looks matters compared to something like personality?

[Claviculum]

It matters so much more because your personality is correlated with your looks via the halo effect. Right. So people are going to perceive your personality, your interests, your hobbies vastly different if you're good looking versus not. So it's, you know, a direct correlation.

[Jack]

What would you say are your most attractive and least attractive features right now?

[Claviculum]

Most attractive features? I would say that I've got a pretty good hairline. Well, I mean, I am, you know, pretty young, so that's one of the things that I should. And I would say that my, my jaw from the front profile is, is pretty good. So I would say that. And least attractive features, I would say that my nose and yeah, as well as maybe like the total height of my, of my skull could be a little better.

[Graham]

How is that not body dysmorphia?

[Claviculum]

Well, it could be, absolutely. And I think a lot of people usually end up there, but it's just about how you're going to let this affect your overall mental. Well, you asked me that question and I, you know, sat there and thought about it, but it's not something I ever think about on a day to day basis. I'm not like, oh my God, I don't want to go outside today because my a base is too wide or something like that.

[Jack]

What is that?

[Claviculum]

Just the width of your nose. So you know, that's, that's not a thought process, that's not a mentality that I hold. It's just I know that I have to improve, I have to get better, you know.

[Graham]

But at the same time, thinking about your nose, don't you think that time would be better spent elsewhere?

[Claviculum]

Not really, because once again, it's not something I ever think about just on a day to day basis. It's like I, I know that the steps that are required to, you know, fix this, what we call a phalo would be rhinoplasty, but that's the extent of the, the thought process, the mental burden. So I don't really see it as problematic.

[Jack]

So why did you start this entire process? What did you feel like you were missing in your life?

[Claviculum]

I didn't really think that I was missing anything. And the way that it kind of took on was I was pretty big into bodybuilding. I liked watching rich piano when I was growing up and I had a home gym that I was, you know, working out without really any idea what I was doing. So. And then I kind of learned, you know, through my use of forums when I was growing up about right. And I was already lifting weights and I was like, well if I could have this cheat code essentially that's going to get me to my desired physique, get me my results quicker, why would I not do it? It's not like your typical person who helps on at that age where they're like, oh, I want to look like David Laid or Jeff Se. That's not my mentality. It was just an objective. Okay, here's a tool that I could utilize and I'm going to do so.

[Jack]

So you hopped on at 14, right. And was any part of your brain concerned with consequences of taking that at such a young age?

[Claviculum]

No, no, not at all.

[Jack]

So what was the mentality going into it is just strictly like, this will help me reach my goals at a faster rate.

[Claviculum]

Absolutely.

[Jack]

Barring whatever consequences.

[Claviculum]

Yeah. And it seems pretty silly to not take. Like, it seemed more ridiculous to not take at the time than. Than to take them, you know, because of. Of how much quicker I could achieve that physique.

[Graham]

But why not do that naturally and then without taking this? Because at 14, you would just assume that you're already going to make a lot of progress, that there's no point to doing well.

[Claviculum]

I mean, that mentality, I think, is holding a lot of people back. Like, why not do it naturally? Because it's gonna. Not only take longer, but you're not gonna get nearly the results that you otherwise could, you know. So just not doing whatever it takes was completely off the table for me. That's like the rich piano mentality. Whatever it takes.

[Graham]

How did you get them?

[Claviculum]

Just ordering on the Internet, just.

[Graham]

You were not concerned about ordering off the Internet?

[Claviculum]

No, no.

[Graham]

How did you know what you were going to get, though? How do you know it's going to be legitimate? And how do you know what to take?

[Claviculum]

Well, I mean, I did my due diligence with, like, you know, online forums and talking about this stuff, so it took me a little while to figure it out, but, you know, same same way everyone else does.

[Graham]

And what about your parents? Did they have any idea that you were doing this?

[Claviculum]

Yeah, they were not happy with my decision. They would go and, you know, go through my room from time to time, from time to time and take them away or, you know, snipe the mail. They'd always be going through my packages trying to, you know, intercept, but they were not in support at all.

[Jack]

But did you have any of your friends in support of this? Was anyone in support of this, aside from yourself?

[Claviculum]

No one really had much to say about it. They just, you know, I guess appreciated the honesty because a lot of people take and lie, but I was always someone who just didn't care, even when I first started. Because people who are normies usually put. It's like this weird binary in their head where it's like, okay, you're on. You should look like Ronnie Coleman, you know what I mean? Rather than, okay, you're on. Well, how much? Oh, you're only on a little bit of testosterone. Like, that makes sense that after two months that you're not an IFBB pro, but that's not how, how people's brains work. So I would definitely take on a little bit of. Of heat for that. Oh, you know, you're, you know, barely big for taking, bro. But I didn't care. I was always open about it.

[Jack]

Did you start immediately getting more attention from women?

[Claviculum]

No, I would say that I probably looked worse taking for a little while because I didn't really know how to do them properly. You know, you deal with issues with your skin. I was, you know, getting severely bloated. I was doing dirty bulk. So, like, the gym was kind of something that looks mend me at the start. And the reason I started doing looks maxing was, was because I was on these forums and then there was a little of like the black pill influence, like looks maxers coming into the spaces and just that overlap. Like, wait a second, guys. We're doing all this gym selling and, you know, dedicating all our time. Maybe our priorities are wrong. Maybe we should be focused on the face. I was like, yeah, okay, that makes sense. And that's kind of where I segued around the age of 16 into looksmaxing.

[Graham]

What's the point of it all? Like, what's the end goal of looksmaxing?

[Claviculum]

Well, once again, there's no end goal to look maxing.

[Graham]

What's the point? Like what, what do you. What's the objective?

[Claviculum]

Well, the objective is to get better looking because that's gonna allow for more opportunities, allow for better overall treatment. You know, just that subconscious bias in people that you're leveraging by, you know, becoming better and better looking is really worth all the effort that you put in.

[Graham]

But don't you think that someone could achieve 90% of looks maxing, really just going to the gym, eating healthy, getting a haircut, getting fit, clothes soft maxing, as they call it.90%. And then the other 10% that you would spend years trying to build, you could spend that 10% doing anything else to make you more attractive in other areas. For instance, personality, business intelligence, things like this.

[Claviculum]

I would say that the number falls closer to 70%. And I agree with that general premise that you just gave, But I think you're overestimating the time burden of looks maxing. It's not like something that you really have to. To do it. In a lot of regards, you actually have to focus on business because, like, that additional, like 30% would be typically very expensive. So you've got to have, you know, the budget set aside to be able to do things like plastic surgery, things like some of these peptides. It's not exactly a cheap process, but it's not really time intensive either.

[Jack]

How much have you spent on your current looks maxing journey and how much do you intend on spending throughout the rest of your life, do you think?

[Claviculum]

I think I, I probably spend around 50 to $80,000 a year just on like peptides. So I, I would say that that's probably the majority. That's like obviously an absurd figure. Like it's not required that you do that. I think your average person will probably, if who's doing like a lot of the protocols, maybe run them five to $10,000 a year. But I'm experimenting with like a lot of different stuff, like nad and like a lot of stuff that really pushes the, the price up. So like intelligence maxing is like another thing I do.

[Jack]

What is intelligence maxing?

[Claviculum]

Well, using different pharmaceuticals and nootropics to try to be, you know, as mentally cognizant and sharp as possible.

[Jack]

And how do you actually record how intelligent you are? How do you know if you're making forward progress?

[Claviculum]

Well, I mean, just, you could definitely notice the acute mental clarity with like a lot of these nootropics that you're taking. Uh, for example, something like Sumax. If you, you know, take that in conjunction with you know, a stimulant, you're really going to feel a lot more dialed in. Like, and it's very noticeable. It's not like a placebo garbage cope supplement that you could take. That's like very legitimate stuff. So in that regard. But in terms of like doing IQ tests and stuff like from time to time, I think that's a little bit silly to begin with. So I wouldn't really say it needs to be measured because we have the literature, we, we have the studies to support that this stuff does, you know, cause like things like synaptogenesis and that's going to make you more intelligent.

[Jack]

So is this all yourself? Trying to progress towards this ideal version of yourself and then what do you do once you.

[Graham]

I'm still trying to figure out the objective. Like, is this to get, like, is this to get girls? Is it to like just make money? Like, what's the purpose of this?

[Claviculum]

Well, all of those things are true, right? Being better looking just is so advantageous in getting women. But it's like at the end of the day that that would be like a silly reason to do something with this much dedication just to get women. Because there's a lot of different things that you could do to get women. Like you could become a More interesting person even. Like you could learn like a lot of these psychological tactics. There are steps that you could take, but it's just about, you know, whatever I want to do, my message will be received better. I'll be received better as a person entirely when I become good looking. So there's essentially no lane that I could take that I wouldn't benefit from massively from looks.

[Graham]

Max, you don't think you've already accomplished 99% of that?

[Claviculum]

No, not at all.

[Graham]

Do you really think that if you had maybe a sharper nose or a more chiseled draw, a jawline that you would make more opportunity, more money? Do you think that's what's holding you back?

[Claviculum]

Absolutely. Because, you know, I, I take a look at percentiles, like where I am, I would say I'm probably, you know, maybe top 90th percentile in terms of looks. But you know, you push yourself further just like that, additional 10 percentiles and what you start to achieve and the doors that start to open are like, you know, for example, like the, the one guy, Jeremy Meeks, who commits a felony and has a bunch of girls find him attractive and bail him out on Facebook and then he gets a $1 million modeling contract. Or Jordan Barrett who gets caught stealing another like, you know, contracts. And like all these people who do like these heinous crimes and just like have peoples like stamping over them, that's what becomes available to you. So life is like just impossible to lose.

[Graham]

Yeah, but are you going to be committing crimes? I mean, well, that would argue to show that those guys, it's purely because they went viral based on their mug shot. No, it's like it's the crime. And then you see the face and you're like, wait a second, that face can't fit that crime. Like I see a lot of women now, you see their mug shots of like she just threw hot coffee on this guy and went to jail and it's like some attractive like 20 something year old and they go viral on Twitter.

[Claviculum]

Well, not when you're getting like modeling contracts worth millions of dollars. Right. That's like a looks level that and you know, I'm pretty sure Brad Pitt even had a similar come up story. I don't recall his exactly, but life just becomes like uneasy mode. Like you're basically playing like creative and Minecraft, you know.

[Graham]

Yeah, but how do you explain then Mark Zuckerberg or a lot of these billionaires which are just average looking dudes.

[Claviculum]

Easy, because they're, they're Extremely innovative. They came up with something, you know, that's never been seen before. And I'm not sitting here suggesting that you can't win at life if you're not good looking. I'm just suggesting that it would be drastically easier. Right. And I don't think that's really a controversial thing to say. I would say that if Mark Zuckerberg were to be, you know, a top percentile mogger, then he would be even more successful.

[Graham]

I would disagree with that. I would say that if he's so attractive, people might not take him as seriously. And that part of the reason he did so well is because people see him as a quote unquote nerd and they see his face and his style and they associate that with someone who's really good at tech. And if he were a model looking dude, I think he would be passed up on a lot of opportunity. Just because you're like, oh, a dude this good looking can't possibly create this whole social network versus the dude who fits the part. I think it's really just about looking the part. And I would argue and push back for you. I think you would benefit the most from taking like comedy classes and standup classes and work on charisma more so than looks. Because just objectively I see you, I probably. But gesture maxing, I've never heard of that. You just make that up. Is that a thing?

[Claviculum]

Yeah, Jester Max. It's a thing doing comedy shows, I think.

[Graham]

Yeah. Because I look at you and I'm like, dude, you probably, you did probably 98% of the work you're done. As long as you just hit the gym and moisturize your face, that's it. And then charisma and comedy and being, you know, just self amused at things and like that to me would take you a lot further.

[Claviculum]

Okay, I see. So, you know, obviously that's completely cope about the Mark Zuckerberg thing. But even if it wasn't, that's just one, you know, anecdote. Right. But we're talking about across the society and general principles, people are going to receive you better and you're going to be more successful if you're good looking. So even if you know you were correct, I don't really think it's even worth necessarily like going into like a back and forth about just one specific anecdote.

[Graham]

Here's, here's a, here's another point I want to make because I'm not a tall guy and they have these studies out there that say that for every Inch you are, I think above like 5, 10 or something, you make more money.

[Claviculum]

Yeah.

[Graham]

And it looks like on the surface, short people make less than taller people and therefore if you're taller, you're going to make more money. When they really got down to the study, it was not due to the height but due to the confidence that person had. And the taller the person, the more likely they are to be confident. And because they are confident, they're more likely to take career risk and take risks in approaching people and because of that they feel more comfortable. It was. That is a differentiation and not the height itself.

[Claviculum]

Yeah, well, because, you know, you think about evolution, you know, if you're taller, you're, you know, a biological dominator, just intrinsically. So of course you're going to be more confident. But that's still correlated with looks, right?

[Graham]

No, I think it's correlated with confidence.

[Claviculum]

Well, you know, the confidence stems from the looks from you being.

[Graham]

No, I think the confidence. No, not the confidence stems from within. If you believe in yourself and you have the, you had the assurance that no matter what you put your mind to, you'll be able to achieve when.

[Claviculum]

You'Re bigger than, than the rest, the average, you know, guy, the rest of the population. That's what I would say would, would be the main driver of your confidence level.

[Graham]

I would say, though, I mean, bigger, you don't have to, you don't have to work as hard as if you have something to overcome.

[Jack]

I think confidence comes from evidence. I know that most of my confidence was it had arrived after I achieved some sort of like, success. And so whether you're short and you work really hard and achieve material success, the confidence is coming from that. If you're tall and you achieve, you know, physical dominance, like the confidence comes from that. It's not just because you're tall. It's not just because, you know, you're short. It's. It's kind of like through the evidence and you proving to yourself over time.

[Claviculum]

I see. Okay, well, yeah, agree to disagree there. You know, I would say that looks are just like the, you know, end all, be all for opportunities.

[Jack]

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[Graham]

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[Jack]

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[Graham]

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[Jack]

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[Jack]

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[Graham]

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[Jack]

I would say I mostly agree that looks are very important. I agree with the halo effect. I think you're right on that. I think. Wasn't there some study that showed more attractive people get shorter sentences?

[Claviculum]

Yes, and it's, it's quite significant. It's around 40% shorter sentences.

[Jack]

So it's clearly not inconsequential to look really good. I think the main part that we're disagreeing on is that if you're really trying to like life max, to speak the lingo, then it would make more sense to spend a little bit more time developing some other skills that you could be lacking. Pulling your overall, like weighted score down more than like not having a perfect nose.

[Claviculum]

Well, yeah, and I, I tend to agree with like, a lot of like the Red Pill podcast guys on this. I just literally think there's the, the key nuance missing of looks being mentioned whatsoever. I almost never Hear guys like, you know, Tate, like those type of figures even mention it. Whereas I agree with all the stuff you guys are talking about, like improving upon other metrics, becoming a more interesting person, you know, focusing on business and, you know, maximizing your income. This is all stuff that I talk about and heavily advocate for. I just don't think it's necessarily the most important thing. And none of it's mutually exclusive, so it doesn't matter whatsoever. Because looks maxing is not a time intensive thing whatsoever. It's, it's very simple. It's just a few principles to follow. Like, you know, the main one being maintaining a low body fat, you know, so there's no, there's no conflict there with, you know, maybe working on your charisma.

[Jack]

What are the most basic things someone can do to achieve maximum physical appearance?

[Claviculum]

I would say that just as I mentioned, being lean, low body fat percentage is going to give you such an advantage over the average. Especially in a country like America with the obesity rates. Right. People are typically sitting between 20 to 30% body fat. So if you're able to really like shred yourself down to that 10:12 mark, uh, that facial angularity that you gain is going to serve you so well. So that's the easiest thing that you could do as well. And that's going to largely be about like 70% of what you could accomplish in terms of soft maxing is quite literally just being lean. And the next thing you could do, that's a really big one, is being tan. Right. That's another health indicator. And there's a lot of sexual preference surveys that suggest that this is the most optimal coloring for, you know, female sexual attraction.

[Graham]

What is the halo effect?

[Claviculum]

The halo effect is people receiving you better. Your personality, your interests, your hobbies based on your appearance. Right. So, for example, if two people were into video games and one of them was good looking and one of them was not, the good looking guy might be. Oh, that's, that's really interesting. That's a unique hobby you have. Might be how someone react and they might call the unattractive person playing video games, even though it's the exact same thing, just a nerd, a loser, you know, so that's a example.

[Graham]

And when did you decide to go all in?

[Claviculum]

I would say that it was an evolving process. It wasn't like, you know, one day I had like a girl break up with me and I'm like, okay, I'm doing looks maxing all in. It was kind of just as the information hit me I applied what made sense to me. I go about looks maxing in like a very objective way. I would say a lot of guys, like for doing stuff like the gym and self improvement, it usually stems from some huge cope, whether it be just like a girl, like breaking up with them, or like, you know, just some type of motivation like that. And that's where you get like a lot of like the losers, like the cringe is, is from that rather than just like, okay, objectively this could make my life better.

[Graham]

And when do you think you're gonna peak in terms of looks? I'm sure at a certain age there's gonna be a bit of a decline.

[Claviculum]

I'd say in like a year or two. Would, would probably be when that would occur.

[Jack]

What needs to happen between now and then?

[Claviculum]

Well, I'm getting jaw surgery soon, so that's gonna be one of the biggest things. And then just getting back into the gym because with content, I've been really like at a loss with trying to manage my schedule, you know, doing these long live streams, doing like a lot of podcast appearances and like continu. So once I get those two things dialed in, I would say I'll be certainly nearing that.

[Graham]

What's the surgery you're getting?

[Claviculum]

A double jaw surgery.

[Graham]

What is that?

[Claviculum]

It's an osteotomy of the upper maxilla and lower mandible.

[Graham]

Just dumb it down for me. I don't know what any of that.

[Claviculum]

So basically make a cut on the lower jaw and then move it forward and apply screws. And same with the upper jaw. It's like a, it's called a lafort osteotomy. They cut longer anterior nasal spine and then advance your jaw forward. It's like they actually have to break your jaw.

[Graham]

Why?

[Jack]

How many points do you think you're gonna go up on the 1 through 10 scale after getting that surgery?

[Claviculum]

1.5, 1.5?

[Graham]

How did you come to 1.5? What do you rate yourself out of 10? I don't, I don't like an you, but if you move up one and a half, is that like out of ten?

[Claviculum]

Yeah, I would say that that's generally how much people improve from, from bimax, from what I've seen.

[Graham]

How much is that going to cost?

[Claviculum]

35,000.

[Graham]

What's the recovery like?

[Claviculum]

It's, it's pretty brutal. I'd say for the first three weeks. Then after that you just have residual swelling that kind of subsides over like a three to six month period.

[Graham]

Has anyone tried to talk you out of this?

[Claviculum]

Yeah, pretty much everyone. Like parents and stuff like that, just copers, normies.

[Jack]

The.

[Graham]

The only thing that I see with you, again, just objectively, is that if you do the surgery, your views are going to shoot through the roof because people are going to want to tune in to see, okay, what happens. So you'll, you'll make the money back. So it'll be a free surgery.

[Claviculum]

Yeah, no.

[Graham]

The downside is if the surgery goes wrong, in which case your views double from what they would be otherwise, but beyond just more of a shock. Shock.

[Claviculum]

Yeah. No, I absolutely understand that perspective. And usually when people are trying to talk me out of the surgery, they've, you know, often never heard of it before. So I, I've done a lot of research into this. I wouldn't be choosing this, like, as a way to just like, get attention and get views I like. There's no way I would permanently disfigure myself for that reason. And I decided upon jaw surgery for reasons other than social media. Like, I didn't start doing social media up until like a few months ago. So I was already dead set on, on this course of action far before then.

[Graham]

Do you think there could be a point, though, where you do certain surgeries and it makes you less attractive? Like, a lot of people lately have been talking about Bradley Cooper, right? He had a facelift. Is that everyone or Zac Efron?

[Claviculum]

Right. Well, yeah, that's just incorrect surgical choices there. You know, Zac Efron is doing filler, which doesn't dissolve in migrates. Right. So you do filler into your cheekbones, slowly migrates down your face into your buccal region. It's just going to make you look like a bloated pig. Right. So, of course, you know, if you go about things the wrong way, if you go to surgeons, you know, incorrect procedures, yeah, that can happen. But it's, you know, people like my job, myself's job to advocate for, you know, proper surgical intervention and actually doing things the right way.

[Jack]

I would say overall, as a message to spread, this could be good, but it's more than likely bad, at least to that degree. I'm curious if you were to spread a message to a million people, so know that some people will take it in the right way, some people will take in the wrong way. What is the exact message that you want to spread to them in terms of looks maxing, in terms of what you're comfortable with?

[Claviculum]

I think people should just be more aware of self improvement in general, not necessarily, you know, taking it to the Extreme that I do without, you know, going through the ringer with just stuff like getting lean, going to the gym. I think you should start there, see what you can accomplish and slowly build an understanding. And then, you know, you want to come back and take a look, like maybe things still aren't going so well for you because there is this huge purgatory zone where even like the average to above average looking man who's, you know, got a decent job, can't even find a sexual partner, Right? And that's been well researched. Like, two thirds of men 18 through 21 haven't had sex in six months. Right. So it's very difficult in today's society. So pushing the limits isn't necessarily something I'm super against advocating for. But I would say that you really have to know yourself as an individual to make sure you're not going to take things too far or go about it incorrectly.

[Graham]

See, I don't think this a looks thing. I don't think it's just like people are now all of a sudden more unattractive than they were in the past. I think it's more of as that people aren't talking. They're not making the effort. There are. They're chronically online. And if they were to make an effort to go and talk to people in person and work on their personality, they would go so much further.

[Claviculum]

Well, that's the thing. It's funny you mentioned chronically online, because that's the problem, but for a reason that you might not have acknowledged is because you're not only competing with people in your immediate surroundings. You know, hypergamy would exist where maybe every single girl in a town would go for, like, you know, the top five chads or whatever. But that's only in your town now with Instagram, you have competition with NFL football players sometimes, right? Because they're flying these girls out. It's sort of globalized dating, and that's an awful thing if you're just like the average dude and you have to compete with, you know, like Tom Brady, who's dming girlfriend on it, like, there's no. There's no way to win, right? So that's why looks max.

[Graham]

But then why not use that to your advantage? Why not be a dude who's interesting, who's posting great pictures on Instagram, and then you could become almost the same thing as.

[Claviculum]

No, as. As Tom Brady or like a football player.

[Graham]

No, as. As someone who could get girls online too.

[Claviculum]

No, no, the.

[Graham]

The.

[Claviculum]

It's about the status and not necessarily about like building a good Instagram profile even if you got like a few thousand followers. Like, you know, if someone like, you know, even myself with like the Instagram profile that I had, well, I guess before I got banned where like DM a girl. It doesn't matter if my Instagram is like perfectly like nt and I'm like doing all these neurotypical and doing all these activities. It's just about the number and like the clout that comes with it.

[Jack]

Okay, so this is a part where I would like to, to fight back a little bit. I do think that there's a little bit of like a self selected group of people that live here in South Florida. For the record, we are at Ben Mala's place.

[Graham]

Thank you, Ben.

[Jack]

Thank you Ben for letting us be here. We're in South Florida and I do think that the average type of person that lives here may look for different things than the average type of person coming out of, you know, Arkansas or coming out of California or coming out of New York or coming out of Montana. Like they're all, you know, maybe if you do all of those things to the extreme measure, you're going to be more popular in this location with this type of person. But would you acknowledge that there are communities of people that have different interests?

[Claviculum]

Yes, I would say that you're spot on with that. Miami is like the most degenerate city like I've ever like lived even near. That's why I don't even, I can't even live in Miami. I have to live in Del beach about an hour north just because of how bad things are down there. But I didn't build this worldview in Miami. I only lived here for about two months. So these were observations that I began making living in my small town in Massachusetts. Right. I noticed that from time to time I would take interest in a girl. She'd be followed by like a ridiculous like status mogger. And that was like, okay, this glob globalization of dating is really people over, you know, so that's kind of how I, I had figured that out.

[Jack]

But maybe a girl that would take interest in a guy like that in the first place, would that be your first pick at a girl? Or once you realize, okay, your values are in this area, you know, maybe there's less compatibility. At least I know for myself if I would took interest in a girl and yet she was followed by all these DJs and she's following them. I'm like, like I don't really know if that's something I'm interested in.

[Claviculum]

Right. But I mean, like, at the end of the day, women are always looking for, like, you know, the next best thing. They're extremely hypergamous in nature. And, you know, maybe you're able to beat this, you know, issue and find a good girl who's maybe not even on Instagram. We're talking about a societal issue.

[Graham]

I think it really just depends on the type of person you're talking to, because it really depends on how they grew up, their priorities.

[Jack]

Right, but he's saying it's a societal. Broadly speaking, yes. Bringing up the specific.

[Claviculum]

Right. So I'm not sitting here suggesting that you can't find a girlfriend who's wonderful, you can't get married and start a great family in 2025. I'm just saying it's become increasingly difficult. And from the last generations, dating has really took a turn for the worse. And I am speculating that it's going to continue to become more and more hypergamous. So, you know, you are right that you can find great girls with great up beings. But just as a general rule of thumb, because I like to look at the black pill and look, lookism in a very societal. Sociological context.

[Jack]

What's lookism?

[Claviculum]

Lookism is just treating people differently based on their looks. So it's sort of like racism. Yeah, it's like racism, but for looks.

[Graham]

What, what are all these pills? I don't understand what a black pill is.

[Claviculum]

The black pill is. It's an idea about genetic determinism. And it stems from like the matrix. Like, you take the red pill and then you stop living in fantasy land. It's like the idea behind it. So like, you could swallow all these different pills for like, these different ideas and like, you kind of unlock them. So, you know, and people will make memes about it. They'll like, you know, say, like you could, for example, take like the. I don't even know, take like the haircut pill and just like to meme ify like getting a haircut will or some. Something like that, that. Or like the pill would be like another just like meme version of it.

[Jack]

And that would mean that like, getting is the best thing you could do for your life.

[Claviculum]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So like, you're, you're pilled. Like you're, you're in tune with that idea.

[Jack]

So what's the difference between black and. And red pill?

[Claviculum]

So black pill is like genetic determinism. It's saying, like, your life is going to go a certain way based on Your genetics, whether or not you're good looking. And the red pill suggests that you could actually improve upon your base. You can change your life. And it's more of like a improvement mentality and the black pill is more of like a doomer mentality. So the black pill is more correlated with the looks, maxing space because a lot of it is like incels who have like a lot of, you know, self resentment and kind of stuff like that. So that's why it's there. But I think black pill extremism is and you know, comes from extreme cognitive dissonance. They don't really understand the world at all. So I would say that I'm kind of like somewhere in the middle of like the red pill and the black pill. I think that a lot of what's suggested in the red pill, which is like, oh, you could just like go to the gym and you know, you'll be able to ascend your life, you know, but you're talking to people with like, you know, genetically low intellect who are extremely subhuman. I think that's, you know, very dishonest. But I definitely think that there's room for improvement for everyone.

[Graham]

What's subhuman?

[Claviculum]

Subhuman is a term that we use in like the Lux max community for like horrendously ugly people.

[Graham]

Where would they fall on the scale of like 1 to 10? Is that like below a 5?

[Claviculum]

Yeah, traditionally like around like a 3.

[Graham]

Can they not be subhuman? Like they could take themselves from subhuman to like optimal. Like what's the most that you could increase points from 1 to 10?

[Claviculum]

Well that depends on whether or not puberty is in play. Because you could jump.

[Graham]

Like, let's say you're 25, you're 25 and you're subhuman.

[Claviculum]

25, subhuman. I would say that 10 to 15 percentiles would be like the maximum if you're to like look smacks to the extent that I am. But besides that, let's say naturally.

[Graham]

Let's say, let's say you're in Naturally today you're 25 and you're a 4 out of 10.

[Claviculum]

It depends on like where we are. Like if we're like a, a fat, you know, acne written jester. It's like that's something that can be easily soft max. So that would be a huge jump. So it's all contextual. I don't think it would be something I could give like a general principle for.

[Graham]

Do you think it's possible to Go from a four to an eight.

[Claviculum]

Once again, it, it's just very context oriented. So I can give you an answer there. But I would say that yeah, sometimes it just depends on what's driving the scale up or down. Like if we were to take like, like, I mean Christian Bale has even done that. Like when he goes for like movies like the machinist and get, gets extremely skinny. Or what's the one where he got extremely overweight for, for a movie role?

[Graham]

Oh gosh, I know the one you're talking about. I. Yeah, yeah.

[Claviculum]

Regardless, you guys get the idea. And then you have him like for American Psycho where he fully looks maxes. So like that's a ford and an 8. Like what are we talking about? But it's just, why are you a four to begin with? You know, know what? Is it your, your body fat or is it like your bone structure?

[Graham]

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[Jack]

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[Graham]

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[Jack]

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[Graham]

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[Jack]

Why do you think you have become so popular over the past few months? The thing is, for us, we are somewhat of like a self improvement podcast. I like to think that people can tune in, they can learn something about finance, they can learn something about the gym, they can learn something about health, whatever it may be. That's what the goal is here. And obviously you've been rising in the ranks of, like, self development extremely, extremely fast. So we just couldn't ignore you. We're like, okay, like, you know, this would make sense to have Clav on the podcast, but I'm curious, like, why you have such an attractive personality to so many people out there.

[Claviculum]

I would say because of my authenticity with everything that I do, even if it's something that might make me look or be perceived a little worse. I just really don't care about, like, being like a PR trained influencer. I blow brand deals all the time, you know, just by, you know, being authentic. I'm not, like, performative for the cameras. It's not like I have to go around having people like, sign NDAs who are, you know, I'm hanging out with off camera because I'm the exact same person regardless of what I do. And I would say that that offers, like, a huge advantage based on, like, what people are used to with. Most influencers are like, very performative a lot of the time, like the virtue signal about political issues. And I'm like the complete opposite of that. So people like that and it's also something new that I'm, I'm mentioning because people have gone through, you know, the, the final boss of Copes and they've done, you know, like pickup artists, like coaching and stuff like that, or they've done just regular fitness and their life hasn't really changed in the way that they were promised by a lot of the old people in the manosphere. And now I'm coming in and acknowledging, like, wait a second, guys, maybe it's not your personality, maybe it's not your game. It could be something A little bit deeper, you know. So offering that new perspective, I think has also risen me to fame. And as well as my speaking abilities, I think I could convey my message fairly well on podcasts.

[Graham]

I tend to think it's just a bit of the. I'm going to go back to the extremism that a lot of people look at you objectively and say, okay, you're a good looking guy who doesn't need to do these things. But then you're taking that already to an extreme at the same time that no one else is really doing the looks maxing thing to your degree. So you have like this first mover advantage with a really unique package and a really unique style to it. And that's personally what I think it is because I remember when I first saw you, I think it was you were at the gym or like, and I thought maybe you were joking about, like, snorting something before working out. And I'm like, like, what the. There's no way. And then you go down that rabbit hole a little, little bit. And then I realized, like, wait, isn't a lot of people are listening to you?

[Claviculum]

Yeah. So the. The thing was like one of the more extreme looks maxes. Once again, I heavily advocate against. What?

[Graham]

What was that? Well, to explain this for people who haven't seen it.

[Claviculum]

So as I was rising to fame, right. I was like, okay, I really need to cash in and capitalize on this, like, you know, jump in exposure that I'm getting, you know, from a lot of different collaborations. So I was like, okay, I need to ascend as quickly as possible. So what I did was I suppressed my appetite to an extremely high degree with.

[Graham]

Actual. Yeah, we're talking about like the street. No, we're talking like Adderall or we're.

[Claviculum]

Talking like talking dextrose. Yeah.

[Jack]

So it's. It's not quite like Adderall would be like dextroamphetamine.

[Claviculum]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And dextrome. So, like, what would the main difference between those two be?

[Claviculum]

There's just the addition of the group which makes it longer, acting more psychoactive, and just cross your blood brain barrier fairly quicker.

[Jack]

And then what about the difference between that and street?

[Claviculum]

Street, it has different isomers in it, so there will typically be like more L versus, you know, dysoxin, which is like the Dexter would be deep. So just like the different isomers kind of do different things. Like, the L isomer is much more of a, like a physical, like tweaker stimuli. That's where you see, like the hobos on the street, tweaking off of living.

[Jack]

So do you think that establishing that distinction is important at all? Because I do wonder if you just say, oh yeah, I'm doing, You know, then kids are going to watch and be like, okay, like, let me go over to this guy hanging out at the bottom of this fence and see what he's got, you know, because I'm trying to look like Clav. When in actuality it's not exactly that. But obviously colloquially we always think of, you know, as that.

[Claviculum]

Well, yeah, I mean, I'm always very quick to clarify, but the issue that you run into is people just clip things out of context. So it's like. But also at the end of the day if, you know, someone stumbles across like short form media and they're like, okay, like I'm gonna start doing like that's just Darwinism at the end of the day, like, you know what I mean? So I'm not gonna sit here and act like I'm some like influencer. Like, I'm not, I'm not. Okay, I'm not. I've never claimed to be. I'm just simply someone who doesn't like the inconvenience of having to conceal the things that I do when I'm a full time live streamer.

[Graham]

So why did you do that though? What was the objective, what was the.

[Claviculum]

Goal of facial leanness? To get leaners to do. What do you mean? Well, also for like the psychoactive benefits. Right. So increasing my productivity. So when I was up and coming with like the whole streaming game and when I was doing my YouTube videos, I could just be more productive of couldn't.

[Graham]

Couldn't you do that with like pre workout or coffee?

[Claviculum]

I mean, yeah, you could, but I mean like it's comparing like, you know, creatine to, you know.

[Jack]

Did you get this idea of doing from anyone else online?

[Claviculum]

No.

[Jack]

So you came up with this?

[Claviculum]

Yeah, pretty much.

[Jack]

And what was the logic behind coming up with it? Like how did you read a forum or where did that information come about?

[Claviculum]

Well, I just, I mean I've always been like kind of a stem maxer and I was that like a stimulant user stimulant maxer.

[Graham]

So I'm a boomer.

[Claviculum]

I would.

[Graham]

I'm 35 and so it's like a new world.

[Claviculum]

I would.

[Graham]

New language.

[Claviculum]

Typically stim max with and that's just like was a cope. That's like a physical stimulant. It's horrible for your heart. All right. You know, you're blocking the sodium channel. You could have a heart attack in a second and die. But a lot of the was often laced with, like, amphetamine salts anyway. And then I, for the first time, tried street, like when I would say, like, almost a year ago, and I was like, wow, this was like, extremely longer acting. And I'm like, wow, like, I haven't eaten in like a day. So that was. That was the only time I did because, you know, I was like, okay, I don't really want to do this. Like, this is not great. And then, you know, as I started coming into more virality, I. I was like, okay, like, this is. I acknowledge it as bad, but, like, I need to get lean as quickly as possible. So this is like kind of a weird, unique situation, and this is a weird method. Like, I don't add.

[Jack]

How are you getting it?

[Claviculum]

Well, I mean, I'm not going to talk about sourcing, but once again, I heavily advocate against stimulant usage. I think that if most people with their willpower get Adderall prescriptions, they're gonna misuse them. They're gonna just take Adderall to get high. So that's why I say, like, do not take.

[Graham]

So you would be. You're the exception that you feel like you could control it, use it.

[Claviculum]

Well, I've got. I've got strong willpower, right? I mean, this is incredibly addictive. You see people's lives get quite literally ruined.

[Graham]

If you say you have strong willpower, couldn't you have the willpower then just to get the work done without the.

[Claviculum]

Well, there's no reason to do so, you know, because it's. It becomes more optimal to do it a certain way. So just makes no sense to.

[Graham]

When's the last time you did?

[Claviculum]

I'd say about two weeks ago. I've been. I haven't done any. I haven't been drinking. And I always do that, like, as, like, you know, a. A tolerance break and just kind of a litmus test to see, like, okay, like, I'm still good. Like, I'm not actually, like, dependent on stimulants. So I'm just like, oh, okay, I'm not going to take any stimulants and I'll do no caffeine even for like, a while, just to kind of reset myself.

[Jack]

What are the things you've done along the journey of looks maxing that you would not recommend for the viewers?

[Claviculum]

I would say that that's probably a big one. Stimulants for appetite suppressants. I would not advocate for that, I would say that the testosterone thing, to a large degree you can wind up yourself over because the aromatization into estradiol can actually cause your growth plates to close your prematurely. So if you're not carefully managing that aromatization, taking something like an aromatase inhibitor, you could wind to wind up actually screwing yourself quite significantly.

[Graham]

Is there anything that you've done that you regret doing?

[Claviculum]

Is there anything that I regret doing? There's nothing that like went horrendously wrong per se.

[Graham]

Is there anything you wouldn't do again?

[Claviculum]

Not really. I mean just like the higher doses of testosterone, I wouldn't have done tren again. I did trend for like two or three weeks and that caused my hair to really like take a big hit, you know, recovered. But like trying out. I definitely regretted.

[Graham]

What would you consider to be too far?

[Claviculum]

I don't really think that there's. It's like going too far unless you're causing detriment to your health, unless something is looks manning you in another metric. So it's like I don't really understand that. That premise.

[Graham]

Do you think that it though would do detriment to your health?

[Claviculum]

Well, in high doses it's extremely neurotoxic. Yeah, dopamine toxicity is a very real thing. So if you take high doses of any dopamine release stimulant, then yeah, it's neurotoxic.

[Graham]

I heard on Bradley Martin you were doing stuff to your. Your downstairs.

[Claviculum]

Yeah, I was doing like shopping, bag hanging and like pumping. I haven't really been pe maxing since I just.

[Graham]

What is that?

[Claviculum]

Penis enhancement? I haven't been doing that as of lately, but I. That was something I did last year. In 2024.

[Graham]

How do you. Is there. Is there like a forum that you.

[Claviculum]

See this or R slash getting bigger? I could refer to like Leon Longevity does a lot of stuff. Connor Murphy, I would say are more like veteran like pe maxers to refer to. I certainly have made content about it and sort of the things that I did, but I wouldn't really classify myself as like an expert in that field.

[Graham]

Jack's been told that it doesn't really matter matter how big it is, just it's how you use it.

[Claviculum]

Well, there's like what women say and like what they actually do.

[Jack]

So on soft maxing because I, I like talking about this because I think it's something that I have a more strong endorsement of. You're not like permanently changing anything about your body. You're just trying to get in better Shape you're maybe trying to, I don't know, do some light work to your face, like fix your eyebrows, get a good hairstyle, nice clothing that fits. I'm curious for going to the gym, if you're trying to develop your physique into the most physically aesthetic physique possible, what are the best workouts to do that?

[Claviculum]

So I would say it's more about like principles rather than workouts. And people have gotten this so wrong for so many years in the gym fitness community is like just a joke to me because they don't understand about like training frequencies and what's actually optimal for hypertrophy. I would say up until about 2022, everything was so far from the truth, like even from fitness figures that I liked, like doing like the eight hour arm workouts, like from rich or like people would even say you have to do like a hundred curls before you go to sleep. So your body is like thinking about producing muscle. Like the whole thing is just like such a joke. So, you know, simply what I'm, I'm telling you guys is if you actually look at the literature and you know, the studies on like EMG activation, what you, you, you know, find out is doing something that's high frequency with low volume is the most optimal way to induce hypertrophy.

[Jack]

So what would be the perfect workout for a physique right now?

[Claviculum]

So the perfect workout split. I'll say that would be like an upper, lower split where you go, you do your upper body and then you do, you know, your lower body the next day with generally low amounts of set volume. So that would look like, you know, maybe two sets for your chest and then you alternate between these two muscle groups and that's going to induce the best results.

[Graham]

What do you think all the billionaires are doing to get shredded like a Jeff Bezos?

[Claviculum]

Oh, they're usually doing TRT and Ozempic. Jeff Bezos is a classic case of TRT and likely a GLB one. So this is just like all the these designers, billionaires have been using them for about two years now. And now they're kind of like available to the normies, like the mainstream. And even myself, I've been using these things, talking about them for the longest time now. I see like even moms, like driving around minivans doing tik Tok lives, promoting GLP1s and OIC. It's just quite comical to me because it's like, okay, you guys kind of stole my talking points here.

[Graham]

What do you think Jack and I should do? To looks Max.

[Claviculum]

Oh, I mean, I just, I would.

[Graham]

What do you think?

[Claviculum]

I would say that the, the best way to look Max and like increase your dimorphism would be taking testosterone. That's a really phenomenal way to not only increase your dimorphism in the face, but increase your presence, your frame. Those are all, you know, amazing things that you could do. And it's not a huge time investment. Not a lot of financial burden there. So just getting like the most comprehensive understanding of and you know, all the exogenous hormone usage and then implementing that can go a long way.

[Jack]

Okay, so we're not gonna do that. We're not gonna do any like exogenous stuff. We're not gonna ourselves with anything. What about just soft maxing? What would you say is the best thing we can do so that getting.

[Claviculum]

A tan would be probably the next best thing?

[Graham]

It's so funny. Jack just asked me.

[Jack]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Claviculum]

So even I have to do that again. I mean, and I would. I know you guys aren't gonna anything, but there are things you could do to tan quicker.

[Jack]

I mentioned that this morning.

[Claviculum]

Yeah, the Milano tan too. Okay, well, yeah, so that's a one. All you're doing is preventing premature aging mechanisms by inducing melanogenesis so that, you know, the. The amount of UV exposure drastically decreases. So that seems like a very logical thing. And that's going to decrease your chances of getting skin cancer. And there's really no side effects. You know, all the only side effects that occur from melanotan 2 would be like acute nausea. But. But long term, it's perfectly healthy.

[Jack]

Okay, so if you're gonna observe Graham first, what can he do to. To look as best as possible? Glory?

[Claviculum]

Well, I mean, it looks like I can't really tell too much, but it looks like your hairlines receding a little bit. Yeah. So I would start with like a hairline. A hair loss protocol would be a good place.

[Graham]

I do finasteride.

[Claviculum]

You use finasteride?

[Graham]

Yeah.

[Claviculum]

Okay, well, even do tasks might be a little bit better. There's less chance of like the libido related issues. So I'd switch over to diet, take minoxidil to regrow everything. And like, you know, obviously like a double jaw surgery you would certainly qualify for. So I, I would.

[Graham]

You could be brutally honest. There's nothing you're gonna say that'll hurt my feelings or anything.

[Claviculum]

I would say like double jaw surgery. Like the. The two jaws are a little bit recessed, so I'd start there, but anywhere.

[Graham]

Do you Finish. Like what would you keep doing?

[Claviculum]

Well, you, you kind of have to just take it one step at a time and implement.

[Graham]

Let's say do that. And then, and then what's next?

[Claviculum]

Well, you know, increasing the physique, fixing up the coloring, like giving yourself like the proper undertones. I mean like giving you like a Lux maxing protocol. I could sit here for four hours, you know what I mean? But. Oh, it's that bad.

[Jack]

He needs to shopping bag a lot more.

[Claviculum]

No, it's not that it's that bad. Like everyone can improve. Like, I could generally sit and do a seminar like talking about Lux maxing for like hours on end. Like there's really no limit to how long we could talk about it.

[Graham]

And what would you do with Jack?

[Claviculum]

I would, I would say that in principle it's like very similar for like a lot of people. It's just like the only difference for Lux maxing would be like maybe there's specific things person to person, like you know, perfecting the phenotype. So you know, once again it would just really take too long to like going to E like each individual.

[Graham]

If there's like three things on Jack, three things on me, you're like, these three things would get you the biggest benefit.

[Claviculum]

Okay. Yeah. So both of you, you more so could certainly benefit from like, you know, taking things like carotenoids because you really lack like their reddish like undertones. That's like a health indicator that indicates like proper blood flow would be certainly something that's good, like a carotenoid blend. You could, could usually buy those on Amazon.

[Graham]

So what's that do? Just make me look a little livelier.

[Claviculum]

Like a little bit healthier. Like it, it basically like frauds like good blood circulation, like lycopene, astaxanthin. You've probably heard of like, you know, undertones. Carotenoids. No, like eating sweet, eating like different fruits, like in induce different colors. You never heard about this?

[Graham]

Never.

[Claviculum]

Okay, well, yeah, so you could either do, do that from foods or just taking supplements all over the counter. That's like softmax normy stuff.

[Jack]

Okay.

[Claviculum]

I would advoc minoxidil certainly to grow back your hair. And definitely like a double jaw surgery would be a good place to start for you and for Jack. I would say that the melanotan peptide would be really good. You know, maybe depending on your masseter setness. I tell people, like if you've got a super high set masseter, don't take this advice. But if your masseter is Lower set in your jaw. And you know what you want to do is chew because it's going to increase your bygonial width. But that's just like a, a case dependent thing. So you kind of have to see like where your masseter sits on your ramus to determine whether or not that'll work. It's possible that that would be something that could ascend you quite significantly. And I don't know how you.

[Jack]

Hairline check?

[Claviculum]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, no, quite good actually.

[Jack]

So see, as, as a white guy, I know we already have like, like naturally you're gonna have a bit of a V, right?

[Claviculum]

Yeah, no, yeah, but I think it's perfect hairline. Yeah.

[Graham]

Okay.

[Claviculum]

And the, the next thing that you could do. I don't know how, how old you guys are?

[Graham]

I'm 35.

[Jack]

Take a guess. How old am I?

[Claviculum]

You, you're probably over your 30s, around.

[Jack]

No, I'm 27.

[Claviculum]

27, okay. So what I would do for like the under eyes, usually the first thing to start to go because the way that works is you, you know, facial fat redistributes down your face, it starts to migrate with gravity. So under eye concealer is like a good way to like, you know, kind of slap a band aid on the solution. No one's going to know that you're fucking doing it. So all actors, celebrities are doing this anyway. So that, that's like another good softmax. Those are just three, like, you know, quick, easy softmaxes.

[Jack]

I appreciate that. I think that those were the things I would probably do for myself as well. I think these are pretty egregious. Graham and I both have pretty bad eye bags.

[Graham]

What do you think about Botox?

[Claviculum]

I'm a big fan of Botox, but people go about it wrong. It's not something that you could do after you've already achieved or after you already aged and, you know, accumulated wrinkles. It's a preventative measure because the wrinkles occur as you express your face. So it's about preventing that.

[Graham]

Have you done Botox at all?

[Claviculum]

Yeah, I've done Botox, yeah. Just, just one time, but it's just at a med spa. And then I've done it myself a few times after that. But it's just, it's very difficult to maintain. It was expensive at the time and it's just like a time burden like that I don't necessarily have. Like, I'm not really that expressive anyway, so it doesn't really matter for me.

[Graham]

What about sun damage? Just like wearing sunscreen outside yes.

[Claviculum]

So American sunscreen is spf, Right. But SPF only protects you against UVB rays, whereas the UVA is actually one of the most, most aging rays as well. So you need SPF with PA + +, which is A. Another mechanism of protection. It's typically found in like, Korean sunscreen brands. That's why they generally age better than us, you know, white boys. So, you know, going with proper sunscreen is, is another thing that you could do that really will make sure you age quite better than your average person.

[Graham]

Do you ever worry that someone might follow your advice and maybe hurt themselves?

[Claviculum]

Yeah, that's why I'm, I'm very careful to like, advocate for some of the more intensive looks maxes, unless they're either under direct supervision or have done the research to have a fully comprehensive grasp. Like sometimes, like, I'll talk to viewers and do like, viewer segments on Discord and people will start asking me about, like, tests. I'll be like, I could tell right away. I'm like, you haven't done your research. So I, I don't, I don't tell people to jump the gun and just like, go around haphazardly promoting people to take exogenous hormones. But, you know, at the end of the day, it's, it's very difficult because, you know, you could say that and people could still take your advice. But at the end of the day, I still just want to be able to be open and honest with what I'm doing. So unfortunately, that, that's kind of a tricky thing to navigate.

[Graham]

Yeah. What was going on? I saw a clip on Twitter of you, you some girl on stream.

[Claviculum]

Yeah, those were lipolysis agents, so called Aqualux. Right. It's a fat dissolver. And we were like doing localized lipolysis, essentially.

[Graham]

Why?

[Claviculum]

Because we're going for more facial leanness, killing fat cells.

[Graham]

Are you qualified to somebody like that?

[Claviculum]

Well, I'm not like a nurse pa, if that's what you're asking. But, but who, what makes someone qualified to something that's got essentially no risk profile? You know, I would say that this might be a little bit egotistical, but I would say I'm probably much more qualified than your average PA who's doing it. You know, I would say that they really don't have a comprehensive understanding of what the. They're doing at all.

[Graham]

Now, really quick, let's be honest. A lot of the big phone carriers these days are stuck in the past. I mean, let's face it, a hundred dollars a month for a Phone service that barely changes during a time when people saving for the holidays. It's insane.

[Jack]

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[Graham]

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[Jack]

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[Graham]

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[Jack]

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[Graham]

So sign up for your $1 a month trial at shopify.comich again, that is shopify.comich with the link down below in the desc to get started today. Enjoy. So we previously had Greg Doucet on the podcast.

[Claviculum]

Oh, geez.

[Graham]

He sent over a few questions he wanted to ask. Claviculum. I thought you were all about looks maxing. Why are you wearing a Burberry belt while training at the gym?

[Claviculum]

When did I do that? Oh, I. Oh, actually I do remember. Why am I wearing a Burberry belt while training at the gym? Dude, I. I believe I did that on a live stream. We were just like, like trying on like some new young LA clothes and like, they didn't fit my waist. I had to belt Max. So that was pretty cringe because they were, you know, kind of getting on me for not like, you know, doing the milestones of wearing the clothes. So I had a. That was like a last minute thing.

[Graham]

Okay, here's the next one. What part of looks maxing involves losing.

[Claviculum]

15 pounds of muscle from avoiding going.

[Graham]

To the gym while sniffing creatine? Answer me that, dude.

[Claviculum]

Well, I mean, people don't understand the content grind. Like, I've been, you know, all over the place, like, traveling, you know, grinding my ass off, trying to, to, you know, keep my momentum going. So that's absolutely not looks maxing. I've been. Looks manic. I've been actually looking like, worse and worse. Like, as I started streaming, like, I didn't sleep like last night, really, I was, I was just streaming all night. So a lot of what I've been doing recently is not like, what I should be.

[Jack]

So is it safe to say now that looks maxing is not your North Star?

[Claviculum]

I would say that, like, right now I'm still following, like, the same general principles, but I'm just not doing like, everything I should be necessarily. Like, I'm, I'm trying, I'm maintaining like, my leanness. Like, I'm doing all, like, the key things that are the most important, but I'm just not taking it like, that step further, like, with, you know, going to the gym every day, like, otherwise would be. So, yeah, I guess you could say that, like, content has kind of taken over for like the time being. But I'm gonna Get back into, like, the swing of things.

[Jack]

So if looks maxing is not your priority anymore, what would you say is content. Content. Streaming content for the reason of what?

[Claviculum]

It's just something that I'm doing. But I. I would say that it's not really just like, looks maxing was just like, the end all, be all. And now maybe, like, it's just pair on par with growth with content now, But I still prioritize both of them. The best to the best of my abilities, but just very difficult. And the way that I think about it, it's like, okay, well, I have to really grind for, like, and take advantage of the opportunity I had. But right now, things are, like, getting a little easier. Like, I'm organized now. I have my team, so I have a little bit more time. So I'll certainly be getting back into the gym. So taking, like, a little hiatus from, like, working out and being, like, 100% on top of things like that, that happens, you know.

[Graham]

Got one last question for you, Claviculum. Have you ever taken your blood work?

[Jack]

And if so, I challenge you to.

[Claviculum]

Send it to me to see if you're healthy.

[Graham]

If you're ascending, we want proof that you're healthy.

[Claviculum]

If you haven't got your blood work done, get it done from Alorx.

[Graham]

I'll make a video about it and show the world just how unhealthy you really are.

[Claviculum]

I. Yeah, I. I'd be fully down to. To do that. I haven't done blood work in a little while, so I don't have something that's, like, up enough with what I've been doing. But, yeah, I mean, I did, like, a. A simple panel, like, a few months ago. I. I guess we could send that over to him, but I'll. I'll do. I'll be down to do a more updated one. But I don't think coach Greg really knows, like, what exactly I'm doing. I think he probably thinks it's worse than it is, but we do, like, similar protocols. Like, we're both on testosterone. Like, we're both on GLP1s. Like, I know, don't I, don't. I? I. You know, and he does the same thing. I think he thinks I'm, like, a new toge figure who's, like, blasting, like, grams of gear. It's just simply not true.

[Graham]

What do you think of Greg Ducet?

[Claviculum]

I think he's a jester, and I think he's disingenuous about a lot of what he does because think about it.

[Jack]

Right.

[Claviculum]

He ascended and became an IFBB pro from doing right. He achieved his result. He, you know, got a great physique and then now he does the content and he attributes to Copelaments. Like cope supplements is what I like to call it. So that just seems a little bit unfair to, to, you know, send your viewers down the path of like these random, like, nonsense, like pills that don't do anything, rather than like, what actually gave you your results. Whereas I'm simply just being honest about it. I'm like, okay, it was testosterone that got me here. Not, you know, I disturone or whatever, bro.

[Jack]

Yeah, I can't really speak to the efficacy of like Turkesterone or whatever, you know, pills or supplements he has, but I do generally agree with the sentiment he shared, at least when he was on our show, which is like specific exercises, workout routines, and just eating, eating healthy. I know he has a cookbook, which is totally fine too. I mean, if you obey the recipes that are in the cookbook, I do think that it will have a positive impact on your physique.

[Claviculum]

Yeah. But at the end of the day, it's not really as much about food selection as it is about macronutrients. So I think if he was like, fully honest about like, a lot of this stuff, it just would take a lot of, you know, market share off the table, which is why. And it's like, dude, I get it. It's like, you're an influencer. Make your bag. But I just don't really like. And I, I would never, like I've even said anything had he not like, called me out and like, all over me. So I'm, I'm very, very okay with now being like, okay, this is like exactly what he's doing. It's just a marketing tactic. Like he'll, he'll attribute his results to, to garbage a lot of times, and I don't think it's right.

[Jack]

What do you think about Togi?

[Claviculum]

I think Togi is, is really funny. I think he's a great content creator and he rage baited people. I don't think Togi is, is nearly as like unhealthy or just reckless as he makes it seem. Like on his content, I think he's like, pretty intentional and dil, like his protocols. Like, I've talked to like his coaches and stuff. It's really not that over the top any of the stuff that he does. I would say that the reason his blood work was really bad and like the coach Greg reviews was wrecked. So that's the one thing that you can't really do, and that's what I try to avoid, is like rec at the same time could be extremely unhealthy.

[Graham]

Now, if content right now is your North Star temporarily, I'm assuming that's because you're doing well at it and therefore you're making a decent amount of money. Money and in social media could be somewhat fleeting and so you have a small little window to make the most of it. How much of looks maxing are things like a good watch, a car, a house? How much does this bring you up?

[Claviculum]

It's not nothing to do with looks maxing. It's just a different, just a different measurement that's would be more like status or that. I would say that there's like the looks money status, like triad and that would just fall into those other categories.

[Jack]

But aren't you looks macking looks maxing for the sake of like making your life better? And so wouldn't the quality of your life not only be determined by looks maxing, but also like status max?

[Graham]

Of course, yeah, no, but appearance too. Like, if you walk in with a Richard Mill, I would say people would rate you overall more attractive than pretty selection.

[Jack]

I think they would serve you more respect.

[Claviculum]

Oh, yeah, no, absolutely.

[Jack]

But which isn't that why your looks maxing is like the halo effect? It's the status. It's the.

[Claviculum]

Absolutely. But I'm, I'm not sitting here. Like, looks are the end all be all. Like, it's the easiest thing to jump and a huge increase in percentiles. But of course, like, yes, go and status max. Go and get the nice car, get the nice house. I'm absolutely in agreement with you. Like, there's no, there's no point of contention. There's there. So I, I would just say that the Richard Mill thing is comical. I think Richard Mills are pretty.

[Graham]

But what about driving like a really nice Ferrari or like getting a great car?

[Claviculum]

I would say that there is no one on this podcast that can actually afford or no one watching this that could afford a Ferrari. I think there's people who can buy.

[Graham]

I would disagree on this podcast. I would say at least, least 10 of the people watching could buy a Ferrari.

[Claviculum]

Yeah, no, that's what I'm saying. They could buy a Ferrari, but they can't like afford.

[Graham]

Oh, no, they could afford a Ferrari. Like we have a very educated, business oriented audience. You would be surprised right now.

[Jack]

I don't know if I would say 10. That seems.

[Graham]

Oh, I would say 10 pretty low. The People who come to us afterwards who watch the podcast, I am blown away. Of them could afford, I am blown away.

[Claviculum]

And have it be like a good idea to buy like a million dollar car.

[Graham]

I wouldn't say a good idea, but.

[Claviculum]

That'S what I mean. They could, they could buy it, but they can't afford it.

[Graham]

Oh no, they could afford it. I just don't think it's a good idea for everyone to buy a Ferrari.

[Claviculum]

But well, regardless, like there's, there's almost, there's not a lot of people, regardless of 10, 5% who can actually like get this car and have it be like a good idea until they're like into their 40s. I think that you could make a much larger return taking that money and investing it into a plethora of different things. Like, I don't think that having supercars and flexing them is really going to elevate you as much as people think it is. And for like how much you could be putting other things at a standstill. I think you could be advancing yourself, taking that, that money and investing it much differently would be a much better idea.

[Graham]

See, I think in certain situations actually a nice car could take you a very long way.

[Jack]

Way.

[Graham]

Like it really depends on how you use the car and what circles that gets you in.

[Claviculum]

Well, I, I'm going to speak, you know, from my perspective that when people drive like supercars, like I would never like really do business with them. Like if I see like a, a 20 year old kid pull up in a Ferrari, I'm like, this is either you know, rented or just financial irresponsibility. So I'm like, no, nope. You know what I mean? Until you're like 30 years old, there's no, there's no shot you can like have a Ferrari and have it be a good idea.

[Jack]

So your, it, your goal isn't necessarily looks maxing then it seems like it's still sort of like status.

[Claviculum]

It's all of them. Like they're not mutually exclusive once again. And I don't know why like people make that mistake so frequently. That looks is just like the key part that was missing from the manosphere conversation. But all the other stuff is generally true.

[Jack]

But wouldn't you say though that you could maximize your status, your aesthetics, just your overall respect maybe that you get if you spent say a hundred percent of your income on super nice clothes, watches, cars, a penthouse, like you would technically ascend even higher to access into better groups?

[Claviculum]

Yeah, absolutely. No, you, that you're absolutely right about that. I just don't think it's necessarily like, a responsible idea. I think that a lot of people in Miami are, you know, like, exactly what you said, spending 100 of their income, having no savings at all. They're really not advancing themselves just to basically flex on people. It's like a lot of flex culture. And I don't think that's good at all. All. You know, I, I usually know for a fact that these people aren't actually making the money that they claim, and the whole thing is just like, sort of for. For show. And I think women kind of like, realize this. Like, they know if you're. If you're moving well or not, and it's not going to be a car.

[Jack]

Speaking of women knowing, what about them wearing makeup and wearing shoulder pads or lifts? Lifts. These are all things that women could know. They could find out. I mean, they're the ones wearing makeup. They could probably detect makeup on a man's face. Yet this is something that you would advocate for all three of those things.

[Claviculum]

Yeah, but not. I mean, there's. It's not the hardest thing in the world to kind of skate by. You know, I, I would say that, you know, it's. It's probably on par with all these things that you're saying about, like, you know, penthouses and Ferraris. It's like, I, I just don't think that that's necessarily a good, Good idea to blow through, like, you know, maybe a quarter million dollars a year renting out, like, a penthouse in Miami. Like, that doesn't really sound like a good idea to me.

[Jack]

But then what about these other things, like makeup and shoulder pads and lifts? Like, you still. You like those. Is that correct or is that.

[Claviculum]

Yeah, I think that there's. There's use cases for them.

[Jack]

Do you think that it's like you're playing a dangerous game there if you're.

[Claviculum]

Yeah, but the roi, I would say, is pretty good.

[Jack]

And, you know, which one would you say it's highest with makeup. Yeah. So what do you do if a girl says, hey, are you wearing makeup?

[Claviculum]

I don't think that would ever happen unless you're just, like, egregiously over the top with what you're doing.

[Jack]

But let's just say in this hypothetical situation, a girl comes up to you, wow, you did a really good job concealing your eyebags.

[Claviculum]

Then you, you just say, thank you. Just don't, you know, spike your cortisol and then do a better job so it's more undetectable. Next thing, time you know, I, I know other looks maxers who have gotten like called out on like maybe you go to a bar, you sweat and it like leaks down your face, but just a skill issue at the end of the day, you know.

[Jack]

Are you wearing any makeup right now?

[Claviculum]

No, not right now. We. We're a little bit late to the podcast, but. No, usually I, I would, would be fine doing that though.

[Jack]

So what is the worst possible thing to get caught with as a guy?

[Claviculum]

A hair system.

[Graham]

Them.

[Jack]

So that is like, like a toupee, we're talking.

[Claviculum]

Yeah. Like if you get caught like wearing like a, a toupee and like it's over, like it's generally like finished like entirely.

[Graham]

Have you seen that happen?

[Claviculum]

No, no, I've never seen that happen.

[Jack]

But there's no recovery from.

[Claviculum]

Nope, it's done. It's just, you just have to move on. Yeah.

[Jack]

So what do you advise to people out there that are wearing hair systems?

[Claviculum]

Just be like a professional at not getting caught. I don't know.

[Graham]

Wouldn't it be better just to shave the head? What do you think about just like, like.

[Claviculum]

No, I don't think so. I don't think so at all. I think the hair system's a good idea. Just know that if you ever like get caught, you're going to have to like move to a different country.

[Graham]

Yeah, but what about like Jason Statham, like just looks great with a shave.

[Claviculum]

Well, he's got a top percentile face, right? Of course. He looks great with a shave.

[Graham]

The Rock.

[Claviculum]

Yeah.

[Graham]

Looks great with a shave.

[Claviculum]

Great faces. It's like. But they would look better with like actually hair, you know, so like of course a good looking people look good with, you know, shaved heads, but they would look better with without.

[Graham]

Do you think that you're misunderstood?

[Claviculum]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Graham]

And what do you think most people get wrong about you?

[Claviculum]

I think people think I'm just like impulsive and don't really know what I'm doing. But I'm very meticulous and intentional.

[Jack]

I could see that you're very calculated with everything in life, which is hard to juxtapose with like the usage and stuff like that. Just because 99.9% of people would consider anybody that touches any of that stuff, stuff maximally impulsive.

[Claviculum]

Yeah.

[Jack]

But you could be the very, very far edge case exception of those things, which is interesting to talk about, but also just in application, just so in my opinion, dangerous.

[Claviculum]

Oh yeah, no, I, I absolutely agree. That's why I say like, do not take stimulants. Do not try to copy what I'm doing. You know.

[Graham]

What do you think is a criticism about you that's valid?

[Claviculum]

Maybe that I, I could be like a little bit like cold sometimes or like maybe just sometimes, like I'll be mean or something like on, on live streams I could be like a little bit more respectful and have like more humility, I guess you could say so people. And you know that that's, that's probably about, about it. And you know, sometimes I get criticized for making like jokes about like serious situations. Like you know, like I've made jokes about like Palestine and stuff like that, but I don't. And that criticism, it's like, yeah, like I get like it's terrible, but it's just like that, that's just the humor. It's just I, I mean, no, no disrespect, like in, in action with what I'm saying. I just like to be able to make whatever jokes I want to make without any, any restriction or TOS violations.

[Jack]

It's interesting because most people that I meet that are your age have a lot more like seemingly energy and like more upbeat and expressive. But you, I noticed you're very like mon, not monotone but like very calm. And I noticed even in a comment on your podcast with Brad Martin like had like 50 likes. So it wasn't necessarily unpopular, was like monotone cloud.

[Graham]

Have.

[Jack]

Is that something that you try to be to, you know, come across a little bit more calm and low cortisol.

[Claviculum]

Or is it just nice acknowledgment? Yeah, no, that's, that's who I am. I'm a very like level headed like low cortisol person. And when I'm trying to deliver my message in a serious context, this is the tonality that I, I take. Right. This is my long form podcast stuff. But obviously when I'm doing like in you know, very casual setting, like desktop stream or I'm streaming irl, maybe the energy will be a little bit different a lot of the times because I'm like hyped off, off some stimulant or something or whatever the case may be. But yeah, no, if I want to, if I want to be serious and like have a conversation, getting down to like the brass tacks of like my ideology. Of course, you know, this is the tone I take.

[Graham]

What do you say to the people who say it's an unattractive trait to focus on being attractive?

[Claviculum]

Well, you always have to conceal your intentions with looks maxing. Right? Don't go around like me Obviously I'm a public figure so everyone knows what I do. Everyone knows that I hit myself in the face with a hammer. But as long as you're just not running around telling people, no one's going to know, so it doesn't really matter.

[Jack]

Does that make permanent, is that a permanent solution to grow the, it's like the zygomatic endurance or whatever it is.

[Claviculum]

Zygomatic bones.

[Jack]

Zygomatic bones, yeah. So it's these bones right here.

[Claviculum]

Yep.

[Jack]

Wolf's law. I like, we did a lot of research going into this, so. So you basically state that if you similar to an MMA person shins, if you continually micro fracture it will grow back stronger and larger.

[Claviculum]

Correct.

[Jack]

And so it's an attractive trait to have these protruding more.

[Claviculum]

Yeah, more prominent.

[Jack]

So that's something that you have done on and you've noticed permanent.

[Claviculum]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Jack]

Growth of those bones.

[Graham]

Don't you think that could just be puberty though, that you're like still developing a face through the next like five years?

[Claviculum]

I bone smash after puberty.

[Jack]

See, I just don't even like that, that term bone smash, it's like so, it's so grotesque and honestly for me.

[Claviculum]

It'S like, it's really funny.

[Jack]

I just, I just wouldn't be able to do it. I, I wouldn't want to, I wouldn't want my son doing it. Like, I wouldn't want any of the viewers doing it. It's just so like if Jack started.

[Graham]

Doing this, I would prompt you to go to therapy. Yeah, that would be my first thing.

[Claviculum]

It's extremely comical. Bone smashing. Yeah, I just like the name now that you pointed that out. Yeah, that is actually really funny.

[Jack]

But I, I, I don't know, like, like do you hope more people Bone smash. What is the, the goal?

[Claviculum]

As long as there's no like issues of head trauma, like if you properly brace your skull, I mean it's not the worst thing in the world. It's pretty low risk.

[Graham]

Have you gone or has anyone suggested that you try therapy before doing some of these things?

[Claviculum]

No, that's, that's never been something that's been necessary.

[Graham]

I would love to do an introduction if you would like to, with Dr. K. Yeah.

[Jack]

Do you know who Dr. K is?

[Graham]

Yeah, Healthy gamer.

[Jack]

Would you speak to him?

[Claviculum]

Yeah, I would speak to any, anyone but I don't really think my psychological well being has ever been like an issue of mine. Like I'd say that. Yeah. Well, I may be neurodivergent. Like I'd say that's probably, probably one of my strong suits and what makes me like able to succeed as a person.

[Graham]

Well, I would, I would agree with you on that. Would you say that being neurodivergent just makes you focus on one thing and wanting to just do that thing and dive a hundred percent into that?

[Claviculum]

Yeah, I would say that's probably one of the main reasons why I am the way I am.

[Graham]

And it just happened for you to be looks Max.

[Claviculum]

Correct. And before that it was. Was like there's like a lot of political stuff and I would say I was. I was fanatical about that. And then it just segued into looks maxing.

[Graham]

I tend to think I got to be a little on the spectrum for something because a while ago I used to be really into a reef aquariums as a kid and I got super into that. And then it was. I got super into doing real estate y and I got super into doing YouTube. And it's always like these different things that shift over time and. And then I just. All I want to do is that thing lasts about 10 years and then I find some new thing. I'm like, I'm gonna get really good at that. Do you think that maybe you'll start to fixate on something else?

[Claviculum]

Well, I mean, after I've achieved like my desired results and it just becomes like a thing of maintenance to looks Max. Like, yeah, but that was always my intention was my intention is not to look Max for the rest of my life. It's to leverage my increase in looks for whatever I decide to do.

[Graham]

Again, I would go back to. It's less about. Because you will, as you said, what was the term? Ascend. Right? You're going to ascend a hundred percent. I would say that's less to do with your looks and more to do with you getting out on social media, doing extreme things that pushing you into a new category, getting a lot of views, a lot of money, which will then give you more opportunities. But I don't think it's the looks itself.

[Claviculum]

You, you know, that's just something that we're never necessarily going to be able to.

[Graham]

So for you, it'll be be because of your looks. The better looking you will be. The more money you make, the more status you have. And that's due to the looks and not the content strategy.

[Claviculum]

Well, no, that, I mean both are true. Like it's a little bit of. Of everything. If we were to put like a pie chart together of how exactly that would look like looks like personality, like content drive or motivation. I don't exactly know how I would scale that up, but I would say that it's definitely a factor. So it's, it's worth acknowledging regardless of if 60% of, of the pie, 50%, whatever.

[Graham]

What do you think is more important to get women? Do you think it's status, money or looks?

[Claviculum]

Looks? Absolutely. Without a question.

[Graham]

More than status.

[Claviculum]

Yeah. I mean this is. But that's like another thing where it's like, okay, well how good looking are you? Are you like Prof. Professional actor level status? It's like that, that's why that question, like often it gets taken out of context and doesn't really make a lot of sense be. But if we're talking about like, okay, we're 80th percentile in lux money status, which metric is going to drive us? The results that we're actually looking for, it's going to be the looks. Right. Whereas if you're like, you know, 10 million followers on Instagram, you know, but you're not necessarily goodlooking, you might be able to beat out a guy who's better looking than you and you know, less status.

[Jack]

Would you say that you are good with women?

[Claviculum]

I like to hold myself to high standards, so I'd say there's definitely room for improvement. But I'd say I do very well for myself.

[Graham]

How would you improve?

[Claviculum]

A lot of the stuff with women is not how interesting you are at all. Right. It's more like just psychological, like tactics like manipulating women. Really it's like a big part of it. So, you know, you, you don't necessarily have to be like this well traveled guy able to talk about like his experience in Tokyo. You just need to know about like how to spike different, you know, neurotransmitters in women and how to, you know, keep their dopamine going. Like, like that.

[Jack]

Is that a good or a bad way to attract a woman though?

[Claviculum]

It's, it's the way to do it. Whether it's good or bad, like morally good or morally bad. It's like I don't really know. But the, the goal is to get women. It's not necessarily like about me, moral.

[Graham]

You know, See, I've seen some of your streams and I haven't seen any of those manipulation tactics. The only things that I've seen from you that seem to work is that you're very forward and that you'll just say what's on your mind, which might have a better result than tactics. Well, unless that is the tactic.

[Claviculum]

Well, that's Just that's trolling on a stream, you know, that's not really like a fair, like, way to show. And especially when, like, the camera rig that I use and like, there. There's like 10 lights coming off, there's mics. It's like, ridiculous. So women are not acting the way that they otherwise would be if I were talking to them in like an off camera context. Like, the camera makes it a lot harder because, like, women, like, want to, like, clout chase. Like, look at me. Like, I see a lot of chicks on Tick Tock do this. It's like I went to this house party where there was like, literally multiple girls that I had, you know, slept with previously who want to be like, performative for the camera. Like, oh, I rejected Clav, you know, so it's like, okay, like, you know.

[Jack]

But that's still just. I. I like to think that that is like, just the Miami crowd. I think that, like, the behavior will be different depending on where you're at, quite substantially. Like, I can't imagine.

[Claviculum]

You're not wrong.

[Jack]

And you're also going. Not only. Only you're not. You're not only in Miami, but you're also going to house parties in Miami with influencers and with people that speak a certain way, act a certain way. So that's kind of like fringe behavior.

[Claviculum]

Yeah, you're not wrong. I mean, but once again, I wouldn't exactly, like, say that what I'm doing or what I'm talking about is what I recommend people do. Like the way that they talk to women. It's just I'm going for stream clips, you know, so it's not really even worth acknowledging that.

[Jack]

How much do you consider morals with what you do and preach online?

[Claviculum]

I'm like an ends justify the means. Sorry, the. The means. You know what I mean? So I. I don't necessarily care too much about, like, what I need to do to accomplish the result, if that's what you're asking.

[Jack]

So you're objective oriented and you don't necessarily care what you're doing is right or if it's wrong?

[Claviculum]

Uhhuh. Correct.

[Graham]

Have you ever been in love?

[Claviculum]

That's hard to say. I don't really know. I'd have to think about that a little bit. It's a tough one.

[Jack]

What would you rate your happiness out of 10?

[Claviculum]

I wouldn't really rate it. I think that that's just like a silly.

[Jack]

I disagree.

[Claviculum]

Being, like, happy. Yeah, I think that's extremely silly.

[Jack]

Why?

[Claviculum]

Because it's like, like the thing That I prioritize is like being driven, having like a purpose, being ambitious. It's like the, you know, not a lot of the things that I do on a day to day basis are like the most enjoyable. Like, you know, doing work isn't enjoyable a lot of the times, but it's just something that like, needs to be done. Like going to the gym. It's not like an enjoyable thing for me, but I do it anyway. So I have like no regard for, for like my happiness. Like that seems like a very like, immature idea.

[Jack]

Why is that immature?

[Claviculum]

To, to prioritize, like being happy.

[Jack]

I'm not saying that you can, that you need to prioritize it to assess it, but you can still assess it without it necessarily being a priority.

[Claviculum]

But it's just like happiness as an idea. Like men aren't like supposed to be like happy. I don't really think.

[Jack]

Why are men not supposed to be happy?

[Claviculum]

Because life is hard and can't you enjoy difficult things? Not if you want to succeed to the highest level that you possibly could.

[Jack]

Does a man need to succeed to the highest level that he can?

[Claviculum]

No, they don't need to do anything. But I certainly want to.

[Jack]

But if you want to. So you know where your happiness lies. If you were to assess it, what would you rate it out of 10? I think that it's a totally fine thing to measure people.

[Graham]

Sure.

[Jack]

You can go the philosophical route of like, why even, you know, are we discussing happiness? What is happiness? But you could chalk it up to joy, you could talk it up to enjoyment of life, you know, where would you say you are on a scale of 1 to 10?

[Claviculum]

I would say that I'm pretty low. I mean, I don't, I don't sleep, I don't really do I. I haven't like done anything outside of content for like months now. I don't even have time to go to the gym. So I would say that, you know, like my overall well being would certainly have taken a hit from like the content that I'm doing. But it's worth it. It's just like how, how it has to be, you know.

[Jack]

And so that reminds me, I know I'm not going to compare you and Elon Musk, but it reminds me of Elon when he says I'm so mission oriented that, you know. Or am I happy? Not necessarily. But I don't devote my life to, you know, happiness is not a priority of mine.

[Claviculum]

Yeah, that's exactly how I feel. And I'd say that's like a Very, like, neurodivergent mentality to have. And that's why I think that, like, a lot of, you know, successful people often, you know, are on the spectrum for autism and stuff like that. It's because they're capable of this. Like, if I were to, you know, go and do something that, like, made me happy, like go play video games or, you know, just go do like jester activities, go like bowling or something like that, or go hang out with girls, go to bars, whatever the case may be, I would not, not be positioning myself in the most optimal way possible. So that would. And having that in the back of my head that when I'm doing, like, things like that, I could better be using my time and, and prioritizing myself much better. I would not be able to enjoy anything.

[Jack]

I sort of disagree. I think if, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. If you're an influencer, I think being able to convey happiness, joy, like viewers like to have positive influences. They like to watch content and feel good about it or at least feel something. And if you, if you can bring some sort of clear joy or happiness to your content, I do think that that could actually serve you, you know, business wise, like Togi, you know, all of the largest influencers, like David dobrik, you know, Mr. Beast, they all built their success off of kind of some sort of at least positive spin, like a happy thing. Instead.

[Graham]

There's an emotion to it.

[Jack]

There is an emotion to it. And don't you think that, like, that would come through in content if we're just talking entrepreneurially?

[Claviculum]

I think Mr. Beast is a textbook sociopath who as soon as the cameras turn off, from what I've heard, is just like a robot that has. No, I would disagree.

[Graham]

Yeah, we've spent a lot of time with him. No cameras, no nothing. He loves what he does.

[Jack]

Yeah, he'll crack jokes.

[Graham]

He'll be like, he is funny.

[Jack]

Yeah. And you could argue, oh, well, that's because he's around other influencers. He knows they'll speak about him.

[Graham]

No, we're playing like soccer with him after filming with him and just. And he was playing till like midnight and then went down and we were like reviewing Instagram reels and like he's.

[Jack]

We went to go film with him and then afterwards he's like, hey, we're going to all go play soccer at, you know, in the backyard of this house that he has and it's got this big lot and he has these soccer goals set up and he Invites all of his friends over and he's got a little shed with a bunch of cleats and he lets us wear his cleats and, you know, borrow some of his clothes. He, he was about having fun and just being positive.

[Graham]

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff he's, he's done for us that a hundred percent he didn't even need to do. Like, I would have been happy just getting an hour with him for a podcast.

[Claviculum]

Well, the thing that I'll say is I've, I've talked about like, and identified a lot of like, sociopathic behavior from influencers over the past year, and I've never been wrong, so.

[Graham]

But you haven't met Mr.

[Jack]

Beast.

[Claviculum]

Yeah, and I haven't met a lot of these people that I've analyzed.

[Jack]

And how would you say you haven't been wrong if you haven't met them?

[Claviculum]

Well, I'm just, I'm saying, you know, right now, you know, I'm not 100% sure that, that I'm correct about Mr. Beast, but I'm, I'm saying that I've never been wrong before. And as I, you know, see more and learn more and, you know, potentially get into the same spaces, I, I think I'll, I'll know for sure. But I really wouldn't be surprised if, if I were correct on that, Mr. Beast. But regardless, it doesn't really matter because I actually do enjoy making the content. It's, it's just all the back end stuff that's extremely draining. You know, it's not the content itself. I, I like being on a live stream and I, I typically do enjoy it, but it's just like, you know, dealing with all the, the backend stuff is a nightmare, as you guys probably know.

[Graham]

When's the last time you were sad?

[Claviculum]

Last time I was sad probably last year when I got expelled from school. And like, you know, my parents were like, had wanted nothing to do with me. Was, was kind of a rough one. I didn't really know what direction my life was going to take.

[Graham]

Why'd you get expelled? How did they catch you?

[Claviculum]

Someone sent an anonymous tip into my university and they came. I got back to my room and there was just, just everywhere. You know, there was like the campus police and I got booted out.

[Jack]

Why were you even in college in the first place? That seems kind of antithetical to you. It seems like less of a disagreeable person decision to go to college because.

[Claviculum]

It'S just something people do and I didn't have any direction in life at the time. You know, that's literally what college is in, in the modern context is just like, okay, you graduated high school, now you have to go to college. It's not like a pursuit of, of, of higher intelligence or becoming a well read person, just not what it is. College is a whole, it's, it's a complete joke these days.

[Jack]

What would you say is your biggest insecurity?

[Claviculum]

Wouldn't, wouldn't say. I'm very like insecure person.

[Jack]

You don't have anything you're insecure about?

[Claviculum]

Not really. I know that might come as like a, a surprise, but just my, my thought process for everything is, is not the norm of, of my community of looksmax. I'm coming from a place of pure objectivity and I'm just trying to improve a metric I know is valuable.

[Jack]

But even if it's not physical insecurity, it could be a mental insecurity, emotional insecurity.

[Claviculum]

I mean potentially I wish I was more like socially adept, but that's, it's like a very like small thing that doesn't really hold that much value in my life. Like I'm unable to really resonate with like a lot of, of people. Like for example, like you know, the, the hobbies and interests of like your everyday person I just find to be so ridiculous. Like sports or you know, like watching movies. Like I wish I could just like enjoy that kind of. But I don't know. I've always hated like football so much and that was like a big thing that kind of made it hard for me to like fit in with people. Like everyone goes, you know, to, to a bar on Sunday to watch football. But I'm like, I would literally rather do anything else. You know, I'm similar.

[Graham]

I could relate to that. I don't get into sports unless I have money on the game.

[Claviculum]

Yeah, I know that's.

[Graham]

And then it's more about I want to win that bet than it is about the game.

[Claviculum]

There you go.

[Jack]

Do you think a man should ever cry?

[Claviculum]

I think it happens. I don't really necessarily think it's a bad thing. I think people deal with immense loss a lot of the time and that's just like a natural that makes you human. It's almost worrying sometimes if like the loss you endure is great enough and you don't cry, that's probably like a worrying sign that you're like, like somewhat psychopathic or have like a, you know, a bit of trauma potentially. So I'd say it's, it's a very Normal thing, as long as you don't make it like a residual cope for the rest of your life of like a relative dies. It's like that acute reaction seems very reasonable to me. But as long as it doesn't hold.

[Jack]

You back, you know, When's the last time you cried?

[Claviculum]

It's probably like, you know, around like a year ago.

[Jack]

Had to do with the expulsion.

[Claviculum]

Yeah, just like not really knowing like what to do with myself kind of thing.

[Jack]

So if a viewer wants to know how to life max, what would you recommend?

[Claviculum]

Viewer wants to know how to life max. I would say that increasing your social skills by working in a restaurant for a lot of the young guys is one of the things that benefited me the most. Learning how to deal with figures of authority, whether that be your boss, learning how to deal with your peers who are your co workers is an experience that you're going to learn at an early age. And simply being able to converse with, you know, a different clientele, whether you're a hostess, whether you're a server, all these different jobs really helped me increase my social skills quite a bit because I had to learn like body language when people actually didn't want to talk to me or, or you know, picking up on cues like, hey, like let's, let's make some small talk. Which was something I was horrible at up until like pretty much like earlier this year was when I kind of got my head on with that kind of stuff. So working in a restaurant I would say shaped me and made me the person I am.

[Graham]

I would argue sales, just learning door to door sales, dealing with best section.

[Claviculum]

Yeah, that's also, that's a similar concept and that's probably even better. Better, right. But I don't think many people are going to be able to jump straight into door to door sales. And you also lose like the dealing with figures of authority, like dealing with a boss and like that kind of thing. And also just like being around people your age who are your co workers is another good thing. Like it's a social thing. I really like working in a restaurant for, for young guys.

[Jack]

So in terms of your business, are you comfortable saying how much money you're making?

[Claviculum]

I mean, I'll just say what I make on streaming because I've said this before, like probably like between like 80 to $100,000 a month.

[Jack]

Is that just from ad revenue while you're streaming or is that also from brand deals and sponsorships?

[Claviculum]

No, that's from like donations, like and what we call kcip. So it's basically ad. It would be like the twitch equivalent of ad revenue but they just pay the creators.

[Graham]

What do your expenses look like?

[Claviculum]

I reinvest all the money I have into just like technology. I don't pay any rent, I don't have a car payment. So basically my expenses would just be like food and anything that's content related. Like I'll usually have to pay for like security or different accommodations for doing IRL streams, things of that nature.

[Graham]

Are you investing any of it?

[Claviculum]

Not at the moment. You know I was just talking to my accountant. We're just gonna wait like another 6 months before the 400 nk investing starts. I just really have no take home at the end of the month as you're spending that much like yeah, but I didn't really like start making money until like this month so like. Well probably not spending that much like there, there's like obviously take home.

[Graham]

But I would argue you don't really need a 401k.

[Claviculum]

Yeah.

[Graham]

Because to lock the money up for that long might not be in your best interest. Given that you have a short burst probably of a lot of money coming in. It might be better just to open up a taxable account. Do some in a 401k but keep it mostly in a taxable index funds. Well, yeah, I mean something diversified or maybe a Ross because you're young.

[Claviculum]

Yeah, yeah, I, I told him. I was just like I don't even want to. I didn't like commit to doing it. I said I don't even want to have that conversation for six months as it stands. But yeah, no, so just like basically been reinvesting everything and I would say like another expense would be like I recently just bought like a sprinter van for just like you know, traveling and being able to have a computer set up on the go like and be able to stream. So that was like another thing that I spent a lot of capital on. So you know, I'm not too well versed. I've been kind of just trying to incorporate and set up like you know, all the different business entities like to you know, protect my assets and stuff like that has been a priority of mine. I haven't really dove too deep into like you know, the whole Roth set up and all that. Just trying to get everything like legal and and you know, start dealing with taxes because it's the first year I'm going to have to pay taxes. Taxes, you know.

[Graham]

Yeah, that'll turn you real quick when you start to see how much they take in taxes. Maybe not this year because you're spending so much money.

[Claviculum]

Yeah.

[Graham]

I bet your taxable is going to be pretty little. But next year if you do well, man, that, that every, every quarter you start making those estimated payments, you see how much money is going away and it just gets you going.

[Claviculum]

It just pisses you off, I'd say.

[Graham]

And you wait and it just evaporates.

[Jack]

Spike.

[Graham]

It's a cortisol spike. That's what ages me so fast is you write these quarterly ch. The IRS and you say, where does the money go?

[Claviculum]

And.

[Graham]

And then I start thinking all the things I could have done with that and it's gone.

[Claviculum]

I don't really think I'm going to owe more than like five figures of taxes this year. I'm not going to even break six figures.

[Graham]

Okay, well, we'll count your blessings. And then next year you're going to start to get that cortisol spike. We're going to start to see wrinkles forming all around here from the stress of paying taxes.

[Claviculum]

Yeah, no, I'm, I'm definitely going to take a big hit, but there's a lot of write offs this year for sure.

[Jack]

This is a looks maxing tier list.

[Claviculum]

All right.

[Jack]

You put Accutane as an S. Absolutely.

[Claviculum]

Yeah. One of the best I took Accutane. Let's do. I'm actually going to put that beach here. I think that confidence and charisma largely is going to be like genetic. It's not really something like that. You could just do. You just either are or aren't.

[Graham]

So you can't improve charisma. Charisma if, if you're.

[Claviculum]

No, you can improve charisma, but it's largely going to be, you know, you're either charismatic or you're not. And the improvements that you can make are going to be very marginal. I did bone smashing as B tier color theory with clothing. Give that like a C. Decreasing body fat. It's going to be an S tier thing. Eye contact, certainly going to be context oriented, but it's definitely going to be an important one for like more business setting stuff. But eyebrow grooming, like these are all good. Like, don't get me wrong, it's just like comparatively. Yeah. Hairstyle. Yeah. Hair transplant. Hair is life and if you have no hair, you have no life. Makeup's certainly an A tier looks max.

[Jack]

That's crazy that you put makeup so high.

[Claviculum]

Wow thing. Let's give that like a C tier once again. Comparatively. Extremely necessary during development. You know, micronutrient sufficiency. C outside of puberty not that important. Especially acute deficiency. It's not going to matter that much money. Certainly going to be an eight year thing. Peptides are going to be. I'm going to put them B tier. It's really just like redishrutide and melanotide in all the rest are great. Rhinoplasty. S tier shoulder pads, I like C tier. They're not that good. Sleep quality. Okay. That's going to be an A tier as well. Teeth whitener, give that a C. The gym, give that an A. So I'd say that's my, that's my looks. Max tier list.

[Jack]

Clavicular. Thank you so much for coming on the iced coffee hour. It was really interesting. I feel like I learned a lot. I will not not be going home and bone smashing.

[Graham]

For the record, I might.

[Jack]

Graham might. He definitely needs a little bit more zygomatic growth. So. But anyways, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and happy birthday by the way.

[Claviculum]

Thank you guys. Appreciate it.

[Graham]

I appreciate you doing it on your birthday of all days. And the grind, the grind never stops.

[Claviculum]

It doesn't.

[Jack]

Thank you guys so much for watching. Till next time. See ya.