“The #1 Loophole!” - How VegasMatt Secretly Beats The Casino For Millions of Dollars

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The #1 Loophole!” – How VegasMatt Secretly Beats The Casino For Millions of Dollars

The Iced Coffee Hour
Host(s): Graham Stephan & Jack Selby
Guest(s): Vegas Matt (& team: EJ, WBG)
Date: January 18, 2026

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Main Theme

This episode dives into the world of high-stakes gambling through the eyes of Vegas Matt, a YouTube sensation known for broadcasting massive slot and table bets in Las Vegas. The discussion explores the realities of “beating the casino,” advantage slot play, casino comps, the business behind gambling content creation, and the psychology and risks of gambling at scale. The hosts and guests also address industry changes, gambling myths, the tax landscape, and the allure—and dangers—of chasing multi-million dollar jackpots.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

VegasMatt’s Gambling Lifestyle and Business

• Staggering Betting Volumes

  • Vegas Matt estimates he's cycled $50–$75 million in slot play (“coin in”) in recent years (12:57).
  • He claims, “I probably gamble more than just about anybody. I don’t know because I do it every day” ([00:35], [11:44]).

• Annual Win/Loss Fluctuations

  • Openly shares up-to-date win/loss on YouTube; one year, down as much as $450,000, but a string of big wins reduced it to being nearly even by year end ([07:53]–[09:30]).
  • “We were down like $450,000… then we hit a grand up for a couple hundred thousand dollars, then… $400,000 on a bonus… down $10,000 on the year” ([08:27]).

• Addictive Highs and Lows

  • Matt reflects candidly on the ‘dopamine’ rush and psychological impacts of gambling; acknowledges how frequent huge swings recalibrate his sense of excitement ([29:38]).
  • “I just like winning… I still care. I don’t like losing even a thousand bucks or 2,000 bucks. It bothers me.” ([10:22]).

• Comps & Lifestyle

  • Receives high-value comps as both player and influencer: suites, free gourmet meals, private jets, Super Bowl tickets, etc. ([13:10]–[16:52]).
  • Shares stories about club tables, extravagant gifts (including a $65k platinum Rolex), and casinos now courting YouTubers for exposure ([14:42], [74:45]).

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‘Beating the Casino’ – Loopholes, Myths & Strategies

• Profitably Beating the Casino

  • It's possible, but only for the “very, very disciplined, very smart, and well-bankrolled” advantage players ([00:47], [18:21], [19:58]).
  • Details must-hit-by progressives and why some slot machines, under rare circumstances, become beatable ([19:58]).

• Advantage Play

  • Explained the cat-and-mouse of advantage slot play: “There are lots and lots… and it’s a constant cat and mouse game…” ([18:21]).
  • People combine promotions, points, and precision play (e.g., on 99.8% video poker) to extract value ([23:12]–[24:33]).
  • “If you maximize every possible angle… you can make money” ([23:12]).

• Why Most Lose

  • Discipline is rare; most “advantage” attempts devolve into degenerate habits: “problem is, most people… are also degenerate gamblers.” ([24:40]).
  • “There are people, not many, that make seven figures a year playing slots.” ([25:38]).

• Casino Myths Debunked

  • Machines by the door do not pay out more ([37:27]).
  • Online slots usually have higher RTP (return to player) than in-person Las Vegas machines ([38:12]).

• Table Games

  • Card counting and betting systems like Martingale (doubling bets) are proven to fail long-term ([35:06]).
  • Side bets on table games (baccarat, blackjack) are almost always sucker bets ([127:01]).

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The Business Behind VegasMat

• YouTube & Revenue Model

  • 3 equal partners (Matt, EJ, WBG); major income from YouTube ads, sponsors, and merch ([97:08], [105:32]).
  • Gambling “fund” keeps content and personal play separate; at time of episode, the fund held over $200,000 ([95:52]).
  • “If we lost a million dollars a month, we’d go bankrupt, but…we generally don’t do anything too crazy except for maybe a couple times a month.” ([94:44]).

• Risks of Platform Rules

  • Discusses YouTube’s shifting policies on gambling content and the danger of demonetization or deletion ([106:22]–[108:08]).
  • Back-up plans include live events, cruises, future possibility of signature slot machines, and (maybe) a movie ([110:01], [113:00]).

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Psychology, Regulation, and Responsible Gambling

• Risks, Losses, and Addiction

  • Matt is open about the addictive elements: “I've never done it [quit]… I need to put out a video every day” ([67:07]).
  • On loss-chasing: “I've done it. Oh, I'm gonna get it back. And then just end up losing way more…” ([36:35]).

• Message to Players

  • Use your player’s card, learn the correct strategy, never play with needed money, and understand the games you’re playing ([127:44]–[128:27]).
  • “If you’re going to play, you should play quite, quite a bit at the casino” for comps, but don’t chase losses ([79:52]).

• Taxes & New Laws

  • Recent U.S. tax changes: gamblers can only write off 90% of losses, effectively taxing net losers (unfair, in Matt’s view) ([50:19]–[51:44]).
  • “If you lose a million and you win a million, you still owe taxes on a hundred thousand. I don’t like it. I don’t think it’s fair. I think it’s dumb.” ([50:26]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Life as a Massive Gambler
  • “I try to get all my W2Gs…my accountant calls the IRS and gets a printout…There were too many pages for them to print…it was too big to email.” — Vegas Matt ([11:44])
• Biggest Single Loss
  • “Last night, we were down about $562,000.” ([01:09], [28:03])
• Staying in the Game
  • “Would you quit gambling for life for $20 million?”
    “No, no, no…I just don’t think that would be a good financial decision for us right now.” ([40:41])
• On Gambling and Freedom
  • “Should franchises be illegal?...Should becoming a realtor be illegal? Where do you draw the line?” ([68:41])
• On Casino Edge
  • “There can’t be anything more profitable than having a machine that every time someone pushes a button, you make 8% of the money.” ([31:29])
• On Comps
  • “I have almost a religious opposition to paying for a meal.” ([13:10])
• Biggest Gift
  • “It was a solid platinum presidential Rolex as a just random gift.” ([74:45])
• On Resorting to Side Hustles
  • “We did a thousand dollars a spin…we could possibly lose 100,000.…We lost a hundred…” ([93:59])
• On Team Dynamics
  • “We just work very well together. Like a recipe…you need all the ingredients…even though the flour may be 90%.” — WBG ([134:05])

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Timestamps of Important Segments

| Topic/Quote | Speaker | Timestamp | |----------------------------------------------------------|-------------|-----------| | How much do you think you’ve gambled in total? | Vegas Matt | [00:35] | | Biggest daily losing session ($562k) | VM | [01:09], [28:03] | | Profitably beating the casino – is it possible? | VM | [00:47], [18:21] | | Slots, advantage play, and ‘must-hit’ progressives | VM | [19:58] | | Gambling addiction and psychology | VM | [29:38] | | Comps and influencer perks | VM | [13:10], [16:52] | | Martingale betting doesn’t work | VM | [35:06] | | Online vs. in-person slots – RTP comparison | VM | [38:12] | | Player advice (maximizing comps, playing strategically) | VM/WBG | [79:52], [127:44] | | Tax law changes for gamblers | VM | [50:19], [51:44] | | Vegas Matt’s business, YouTube revenue & split | VM/EJ | [97:08], [105:32] | | Potential for signature slot machine, movie ambitions | VM/EJ | [110:01], [113:00] | | On gambling addiction: Could you quit? | VM | [65:40], [67:07] | | Notorious “craziest gift ever received” | VM | [74:45] | | Must-hit-by exploit & tax day promotions (deep lore) | WBG | [131:22] | | The core message to casual gamblers | WBG/VM | [127:44] | | Favorite and least favorite casino games – ratings | VM/WBG/EJ | [116:20]–[127:01] |

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Flow of Conversation

• The conversation is candid, irreverent, and refreshingly honest—Matt, EJ, and WBG openly discuss both the highs and “wreckage” of professional gambling life, offering hard-earned truths and a touch of self-deprecating humor about their compulsions.
• Hosts Graham and Jack steer the dialogue from gambling lore to business mechanics, financial planning, social media, and the future of casino gaming, prompting both practical takeaways and eye-opening stories.
• Quotes and anecdotes are laced with inside terminology (“Sando!”, “perceived persistence”), giving listeners an authentic look at the casino subculture.

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Conclusion

This episode delivers a rare inside look at the intersection of high-stakes gambling, social media stardom, and business-building. Vegas Matt and team peel back the curtain on how and when casinos can (and can’t) be beaten, the realities of life as a non-stop player, and the new landscape of content creation around the world’s oldest game of chance. For listeners, it’s both a cautionary tale and a fascinating window into a world most only see through films or glossy Las Vegas ads—one where luck, discipline, psychology, and business savvy collide.

Recommended for: Anyone curious about casino life, gambling strategy, YouTube entrepreneurship, or the behavioral economics of risk and reward.

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For more, check out the full episode or Vegas Matt’s YouTube channel. “The Art of Being Lucky” by Vegas Matt is also discussed.

Transcript

[Vegas Matt]

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[WBG]

Not available in all states or situations.

[Graham]

How much do you think you've gambled in total?

[Vegas Matt]

God only knows how much. An enormous amount. I think I probably gamble more than just about anybody. I don't know because I do it every day. We're going to gamble a million dollars today.

[Graham]

Have you ever seen someone profitably beat the casino?

[Vegas Matt]

Absolutely. There are people that make seven figures a year playing slots. This is going to be the biggest slot gamble of my life. The constant cat and mouse game between the casin and the advantage slot players. If you are very, very disciplined, you can beat the casinos.

[Podcast Host]

So how much money then have you lost this year, gambling?

[Vegas Matt]

Well, last night we were down about $562,000.

[Graham]

Was it worth it?

[Vegas Matt]

You win some and you lose some.

[Podcast Host]

If you're going to put out a message to the casual viewer, what tips or tricks should they know when they go to the casino?

[Vegas Matt]

The best gambling strategy is if you really wanted to maximize it, if you had a budget of $1,000.

[Podcast Host]

Vegas. Matt, thank you so much for coming on the Ice Coffee Hour. We really appreciate it.

[Vegas Matt]

It's good to be back.

[Podcast Host]

So every time I tell someone I live in Vegas, they always say, isn't the city of Vegas dying? Is Las Vegas dead?

[Vegas Matt]

It doesn't look like it to me. I mean, it's pretty busy. There was a lot of traffic last night when I was leaving. And what was that? Was a Sunday night leaving the Strip and it was packed and seems. I don't know. I hear that too, but it seems like it's going well. I. I don't know. I don't own a casino yet, so I'm not that worried about it.

[Graham]

Where do you think that started? Because I get the same thing. Everyone's like, oh, I heard Las Vegas is dying. And I go to the Strip every now and then. It is packed. Yeah, I went to the Sphere and they had sold out multiple days in a row for wizard of Oz.

[Vegas Matt]

Oh, wizard of Oz is great. Did you guys see it?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Vegas Matt]

You did?

[Graham]

I did.

[Vegas Matt]

You didn't see it yet? I loved it. I got dizzy during, like, couple scenes. So did you, did you at.

[Podcast Host]

I got vertigo the first time I went to the.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah, it was like vertigo. I fully got vertigo. Yeah. I love the sphere though. I've seen almost everything there except for ufc. I was out of town. I really wanted to see that.

[Graham]

But where do you think that rumor came from?

[Vegas Matt]

I don't know. Some probably some influencer made it up. I, I don't know. Like, I mean, someone probably has numbers, the, you know, Las Vegas Tourism Board or something like that. But I mean, the airport's always packed. The, you know, the casinos that I go to are always packed. And I mean, I don't know, it's weird. You know, you keep, I keep thinking, well, we got to have a recession eventually. You know, you hear about that and I think it's been like the last couple of years I've been going like, I should probably take my money out of stocks market. Can't keep going up forever, you know. Well, you know a lot more about that than I do, but keeps going up, it just keeps going up. It's crazy. So, I don't know, people seem to have money and you know, I mean, all I ever do is, you know, deal with gamblers and I'm in high limit rooms all the time and those people sure seem to still have money to lose.

[Podcast Host]

But what about on the lower end? Would you say casinos are getting a little bit more greedy? Because whenever you go to the strip, it's hard to find a table where the minimums are anything less than like $25. And so a lot of people are like, I'm going to go there and maybe only play for like, you know, 30 minutes or so because it's just way too expensive to be gambling on the strip now.

[Vegas Matt]

Well, I mean, think about though, inflation. I mean, when I was in your guys age, like when I was in my 20s and I was coming here, like it was a $5 table, you know, and I mean, $5 is probably the same as $25 nowadays, 40 years later. So I don't, I, I may be getting a little bit out of touch with reality. Like, I'm aware of that. But yeah, I guess like, you know what, it seems like it definitely some things are expensive. You know, you go to like those clubs and stuff. I mean, you know, a table is like thousands of dollars and yet they're all still full. It's unbelievable.

[Podcast Host]

Have you ever bought a table at a club?

[Vegas Matt]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

And how expensive was it?

[Vegas Matt]

I try to go with when other people buy. You know, there's always those People that are just like. They just think. They seem. They're so rich, or they're trying to impress you so much that they just want to pay for everything. And that' that's my. My preference. But I have been the guy when you go and then they look, it's like, well, you obviously should be the one paying, but I'm not very many times. But I think if you have the right guy, you know, the nightlife guy, like, everyone's got a guy in Vegas. It's like, let me call my guy. He'll get us a table. You know, I mean, I think I've paid, like, maybe a thousand or two thousand dollars for a table. And then, you know, and then they say it includes a bottle. But then. Then about all of a sudden, there's, like, 10 people in your booth, and then they just keep ordering bottles. And then at the end, it. And then a 20% gratuity and this, and it always ends up being, like, five or six thousand dollars.

[Graham]

Was it worth it?

[Vegas Matt]

I'm not. I don't know. Not really. It's kind of fun, you know, I like the music. It's like. I don't know. I'm 62 years old. I. I love going to this club. No, she never stays out past 10.

[Podcast Host]

So you just go out to the club?

[Vegas Matt]

Well, I mean, like, don't get me wrong, I've done it. Like, how often is this in the last, like, three years? I think I've been to a club, like, three times.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Vegas Matt]

You know, just every once in a while. Like, some guys, friends of mine, I didn't go. I got invited, but I didn't. Went to XS the other night for Diplo, and Jeff Bezos was at the table next to him. I mean, fun stuff like that always happens in Vegas.

[Podcast Host]

Did they talk to Jeff at all?

[Vegas Matt]

The one guy kind of made it sound like they did, but then I saw the picture, and it was, like, of the back of his head with six security guys standing around him. So I don't know how much they talked to him, but they did see him.

[Podcast Host]

Do you know what it was like to have Jeff Bezos at the club? Did he say anything? Like, he just ran up a tab of, like, 200 grand?

[Graham]

Was.

[Podcast Host]

Was everyone just like, oh, my God, Jeff Bezos is here?

[Vegas Matt]

I. You know, I got it secondhand, so it would be like a telephone game at this point. But he did that. He had a lot of security was one thing, and. And. And he said it looked like he was having a lot of Fun. And then they said he was short. I mean, I don't know. It looks to me like he's getting jacked.

[Graham]

He is jacked.

[Vegas Matt]

It's like everyone who gets really rich gets in good shape except me.

[Graham]

It's the final form is when you've gotten everything you already have, the next thing is just get really jack.

[Vegas Matt]

I suppose it's like cuz you're making so much money you want to like live longer.

[Graham]

No, I think it's the only thing that money can't buy is a really good physique.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah, well, I've been doing Tai chi. I saw some stuff on my feed. You guys, do you guys get that too or is it just for old guys?

[Podcast Host]

No, I haven't gotten touchy.

[Vegas Matt]

Your phone now probably heard it. But yeah, this is like this time there's these people that's just super ripped. It's like what do you do? It's like well I go like this, you know, like with no weights, like oh. Anyway I like it, it's good.

[Graham]

But now going back to the Las Vegas is dying. What are you seeing in the high limit rooms? Are you noticing people gambling less, spending more? What are you saying?

[Vegas Matt]

I mean it's absolute madness in my. What I'm seeing like, I mean gosh, yesterday, I mean there were two different guys playing what between 2500 and 5000 a spin, like fast spinning. I think that the, you know, the people who have that kind of money to gamble are probably going to have a hard time losing it all. Although we have heard stories. I saw that Watanabe guy's loop going around lately. It seems very, very busy to me. And it seems like again it's hard for me to say because like I'm in that world every single day. It's the only place I am. And so to me it seems like yeah, everybody's gambling and, and people are playing and playing big and yeah, I mean the high limit rooms are always full and I'm seeing no signs of Vegas being slower.

[Podcast Host]

So how much money then have you lost this year gambling?

[Vegas Matt]

Not very much. Shockingly we have it in the description in our YouTube channel every day in our long form. So we have like a 45 minute long form video every day, seven days a week. Thanks to my son and partner who are also here for like three years we posted every single day. And in the description we keep a running track of our year to date win loss. So we were getting a little bit wrecked up until about like was it late October? I think we were down like 450,000 on the year.

[Podcast Host]

Is that getting wrecked or is that about expected?

[Vegas Matt]

I mean it was to be expected I think for us. Like you think about it, I mean every single day we're, we're betting on average 50, $75 a spin for 45 minutes. And so probably the expected loss per day would be like probably, I guess 3 to $5,000. WBG would probably have an exact number, but I would have thought we would lost a million dollars this year. But we were. So we were down 400 and say 450, $470,000. And then we hit a grand up for a couple hundred thousand dollars. Then we hit another really, really big line pay called the big beautiful Buffalo spin where we got like 13 buffaloes on a pretty big bet and that was like 230 or 240,000. Then we hit 400,000 on a bonus on a Phoenix link and we just had like a real, just flurry of winning and then we've been giving it back and as of like it's 15 days left to the end of the year as we are currently speaking and we're down 10,000 on the year.

[WBG]

Wow.

[Vegas Matt]

So it's like almost nothing and now I don't know. That doesn't count my, you know, off camera antics, which I'm probably am down, but nothing, nothing weird. Like I'll play with my wife and we'll play like, you know, $10 a spin, 20 a spin, nothing crazy.

[Podcast Host]

Is that even fun for you though?

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah, I think so. I just like it, you know, I mean I just like, I just like winning and I'll play like I'll play even sometimes. Like I was getting breakfast the other day and I was playing 10 cent 10 play ultimate X. You know, I think that's like $10 a spin and video playing that for fun. Well, there's like a bar, the coffee bar, you know, a little breakfast sandwich and you know, end up playing. Well then I ended up going to 25 cents and I went to 50 cents and I ended up losing 3, $500, 30, 500.

[Graham]

He spent $3,500 for breakfast on coffee.

[Vegas Matt]

Very expensive coffee. Yeah, but that did not work out well. That was, that was a bad moment.

[Podcast Host]

Do you even share that information with your wife?

[Vegas Matt]

I used to lie to her a lot about how like, you know, I would come back from a weekend and be like, oh, I broke even, you know, except for that $10,000 cash advance I took, you know, But I don't at this point she doesn't really care, you know, I mean, you win some and you lose some. I mean, yesterday was a day off and I, I went with my friends and my brother who were in town, went to the local casino and I was there about 15 minutes early. And I think I lost $4,000 playing video poker before brunch. And then I came back and then I played a dragon link and I got down another $3,000 and then I hit $11,000 and then I gave most of it back in video poker and then I hit for deuces dealt. And I want to like, it's, it's. I'm playing bigger and. But it's, it's just a lot of fun and I mean I can afford it and it doesn't really, you know, bother me, but it's. Yeah, you have to play a certain amount for it to, you know, to, to care, I guess is what you're saying or what you're asking. But I still care. I don't like losing even a thousand bucks or 2,000 bucks. It bothers me.

[Graham]

How much do you think you gambled in total?

[Vegas Matt]

Like coin in or something like that? Yeah. Oh, it's insane. Like I try to get all my W2Gs, you know, the, the things you get when you get a $1200 or more jackpot, random arbitrary number since 1970 or whatever. But you know, a lot of times I won't get them or I'll be on self pay and I'll forget to get the print out of all the ones from the day. But even the ones that I get, there are hundreds and hundreds of them. But to do my taxes, I have to file an extension and then wait till like September and then my account to call the IRS and get a printout of all the W2Gs that I've gotten. And the IRS was having a hard time because it was too many pages for them to print and then they couldn't. It was too big to email. I'm talking about, like I would be willing to say that I got $6 million of hand pays this year and on coin in of God only knows how much, an enormous amount. I think I probably gamble more than just about anybody. I don't know because I do it every day.

[Graham]

If you were to guess, do you think it would be over a hundred million dollars?

[Vegas Matt]

I don't total. I don't think so. What do you think? WBG so, yeah, 50 or 75 million of coin in it. I would. I mean, he's the smart one. I, I just push buttons what sort.

[Graham]

Of comps do you get?

[Vegas Matt]

I mean, we getting now, it's a hybrid now because, you know, the Vegas Matt dynamic is. It's finally, you know, starting to get where it's gone kind of full circle from when the old days, you know, three, four years ago, when them letting you film was, like, really nice of them. It's like, oh, this place lets us film. And now it's kind of gone to the point where, you know, gee, who's going to be lucky enough for us without sounding like a dick, but like, you know, for us to come there, because we're. A lot of people watch us, you know, and so if we say, hey, we're playing at XYZ Casino, people are going to come there, you know, so they're starting to see the value more and more of that. So some of the comps, I think, are because of our YouTube fame or whatever, but just as far as a regular person goes, I get, you know, certainly room, food and beverage. You know, I haven't paid. I have a. Almost a religious opposition to paying for a meal, you know, because anywhere you go, anywhere. Well, certainly at a casino, you know, but like, someone will suggest going to a restaurant off Strip, and I'm like, ah, why? You know, but then again, sometimes these comps get so ridiculous and we order just everything and, you know, go out to dinner and then, you know, get a free dinner. That's the other night we went to Komodo, which is one of our favorite places down at the Fountain Blue. And. And the bill was $3,000. And so, like, you know, a normal 20% tip would be 600, but you got to be kind of, you know, generous. And so I was like, probably 7 or $800 in tip for a free meal. You know, you probably could have gone somewhere decent and gotten a meal for $600.

[Podcast Host]

Have you ever gone to one of those steakhouses, an extremely expensive restaurant on the strip, ran up like a $10,000 bill and then got a call like, hey, maybe take it easy a little bit with these comps.

[Vegas Matt]

No, but, like, very few of the people that, that we hang around with drink very much at all. And that's where it gets expensive. And that gets. What's get expensive. I mean, and no, I haven't ever had someone say, like, you're, you know, we. We don't really even. We work so much. Like, we don't go to too many dinners. EJ and wbg, you know, they always talk about how they don't like long dinners, you know, and all that. And so it's not really our thing. Me, I enjoy it. And I'll take some of my. My friends out sometimes for something, but never anything too crazy. Like, I'm not ordering bottles of Louis or, you know, whatever, trying to really abuse it.

[Podcast Host]

What about the comps that you get for being on YouTube?

[WBG]

What are.

[Podcast Host]

What are those? Some of those crazy comps, you know.

[Vegas Matt]

I'm like a little kid, you know, I mean, I love, like, flying private. Like, it's my favorite thing in the world. And you do it a couple times and you just get ruined, you know, and so, like, there are some casinos that. That have jets, you know, which is like, I would say arguably, that has to be the most valuable comp ever, is when you get flown on a private plane. And then the other would be super bowl tickets. We've been able to get the last two years. We've been able to get super bowl tickets from some of our casinos, and we're going again this year. And so that's a big one. F.1 one time guy got to go to one of those fancy, you know, clubs right on the track and the caviar tasting, or they were doing like. We were doing, like, caviar bumps. Like, I just love all that Stu. And I'm trying to think what else? Oh, you know, any football game, any concert, any. You know, I. I like to go in the. In the suites, you know, because you get the free food and you get your own bathroom and you still get really spoiled, like at the sphere, going to a suite and watching. Watching one of the show or a concert. I've seen the Eagles twice that know that was fun. So, yeah, all that stuff is. Is free when you just lose and you get free stuff.

[Graham]

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[Podcast Host]

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[Graham]

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[Podcast Host]

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[Graham]

Have you ever seen someone profitably beat the casino?

[Vegas Matt]

Absolutely. You know, you've seen 21, the card counting movie, of course, card counters. I find, though, that if I've ever been with someone who claims that they can count cards and they, they say, oh, you know, now's a good time to bet more. I, I seem to always lose anyway. I mean, blackjack, I just don't like the game. I mean it. If I have a 15 and I hit, there's a hundred percent chance I'm getting a 10. You know, it's just every single time. And there's just no possible way a six is coming. Now the dealers, on the other hand, I get a 15, it's a 4, 5 or 6 every single time. This is not a game. I don't care. If you could count and it was nothing but tens left, the dealer would get 20 and I'd get the 13 that was left in the deck, you know. But what I found was really interesting that I did not know about was the whole world of advantage slot play. And there are lots and lots and lots of people, and it's a constant cat and mouse game between the casinos and the advantage slot players. If you are very, very, very, very smart and very, very disciplined and you have the bankroll and the intestinal fortitude and you can handle the, you know, the ups and downs, I guess that's intestinal fortitude. You can beat the casinos.

[Graham]

So my understanding with that is that there are certain payouts that need to be hit on certain slots. And if you Identify what slots will pay out when. And you have, let's say aggressive. Yeah, like, like a 10 to $100,000 bankroll. You could theoretically just say, I know I'm going to put in a maximum of 100,000, but I'll get back 115,000. Is that kind of how it works?

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah, kind of. I mean conceptually there are certain machines that have must hit by, you know, and that those are the easiest ones to explain. There's a lot more than that. But let's say you go to a machine and says it must hit by 10,000 and let's say it resets at 9,000 usually and it moves 5 cents for every X dollars that you put in. I forget, but I mean, you know, you can just put money in and hit the button and see how much it moves to figure out how much money has to take to move it. Right. So for every to move the meter $1, you know, it's going to take a thousand dollars or $10,000 of coin in. And then what these guys do, obviously it's not me because I can't even figure it out or explain it right now, but I know how it works. So they'll add up. Okay, it will take $172,000 of coin in for this meter to get to 10,000. So you know, you're going to get $10,000 at the end. And let's say that the meter's at X right now and they know that that machine has a, you know, 92% return to player. So mathematically every dollar you put in, you're losing 8 cents. So you multiply that 172,000 of coin in times whatever and then somehow they figure out a way mathematically, if you played this same play a million times, you would have a mathematical advantage on this particular play. And that doesn't mean that you're going to win every time because I've sat and I've done live streams. Let's play this machine until it hits. And mathematically we were supposed to win a thousand dollars or $2,000 or something like that and we lost 20 or 40. I mean if you have a run of bad luck, but you can't outrun the math in the long term, I, I feel, and I've talked about it many times, it would make the greatest movie. Like there is a movie in the behind the scenes world of advantage slot play. It's, it's an incredible world that most people haven't the foggiest idea about. I walked into a machine the other day and someone had played it, it has a must hit by 75 and someone had left it at 74. And they must just have been oblivious or run out of money and literally walked up, pushed the button like four times and won like $11,000. It was like they had left $10,000 on the ground.

[Podcast Host]

So once you're right on the cusp of the must hit, do you just max bet every single time? Because the bonus will be higher if it's max bet as opposed to minimum bet. Right.

[Vegas Matt]

It depends on the game. But that like in the case of a must hit, like a progressive, it's going to be, let's say it's ten thousand or a hundred thousand is what they usually are. It doesn't matter if you're betting a dollar or fifty dollars, it's going to be the same. You're going to get that entire amount. It just takes longer to move the meter if you're betting less. In this particular case, the, all of those things were bet dependent. So this was on I think like $18, 75 per spin. And that was where they left the 74 on a must hit by 75.

[Podcast Host]

Are there any ways to get advantage play if it's not a progressive bet?

[Vegas Matt]

The people who can actually be the casinos are next level smart is all I can say from those that I've heard about. And they do everything, like everything to maximize their return. Like, you know, if there's a gift giveaway, you know, or if it's like the holiday giving guide that's going on right now at a lot of the casinos, you know, they'll go and they'll play on a day when if you swipe your card on a Tuesday, you get 10 times points. And then they'll play 99.8% video poker for 15 hours and rack up an absolute ton of points. Because the.02% that they're losing mathematically on the video poker now they might get wrecked for $50,000 and not get a royal and whatnot, but mathematically they're winning and they're getting all these points for the holiday shopping extravaganza where they know that they can buy Walmart gift cards or whatever it is that that is actually like dollar for dollar value or something that maybe is even worth more that they'll in turn sell on ebay. I mean it's, it's nuts and then, but yes, if you maximize every possible angle to, to maximize your play, you can make money.

[Graham]

Do you think that's worth that person's Time, assuming they're not retired and have nothing else to do.

[Vegas Matt]

It depends on the person and how big they're willing to play and how much they play and how, again, how often they do. Like, the problem is, is most people that try to do advantage slot play are also degenerate gamblers. And so, like me, for example, I'll. I'll do something and it's like, okay, that's only like 4, 4 spins until it does what I want it to do or whatever. But then I'll be like, ha, I want to play a little bit more, you know, or like this game, you play it whenever the number of balls in the pot are over 15 or there's this many rich little piggies or whatever the case may be. And there's, you know, there's math on it, but then you hit it and they're like, ah, I want to play a little more and do a few more spins. Every single spin that you do. That's not a mathematical advantage. It makes you lose money. But I would go out on a limb and say that there are people, not many, but some that make. Make seven figures a year playing slots.

[Graham]

What about Mickey Maze, who claims that he has a mathematical advantage with baccarat?

[Vegas Matt]

I'd love for him and WBG or W2Jesus to sit down and talk about that sometime. I. I just. I just don't know how that is possible.

[Podcast Host]

We could try to arrange that conversation.

[Vegas Matt]

That's cool. I mean, he. One thing I say about him is he definitely knows how to get. Get airtime. And maybe, maybe he does, but I don't see. I don't see how, how he can do it.

[Graham]

I've tried to figure it out. Yeah, he said he would sell the rights to how it works for $20 million. And I tried to do my own investigation. I'm like, how on earth is it possible to beat the casino at baccarat?

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah, I have heard. I mean, again, it. I don't know the guy, you know, and I. And I see some of the things that people say about me, a level of just untruth and jealousy and then just, just completely speaking out of their ass, so to speak. And I don't want to do that to him. Some of. I can tell you this, that some of the stuff I've heard him say doesn't really make sense to me. He's a good talker and he says some things, but some of it just. There's a logic gap and I'd love to know, but I don't believe that, that game. Unless, like the Phil Ivey thing where he. With that, the lady in. What was it, in Singapore or wherever it was that they were playing in, like where he, he could tell from the back of the deck whether. What the card was, you know? Well, Phil Ivey kind of is the Tiger woods of, of Pokemon.

[Podcast Host]

That's what I was thinking there.

[Vegas Matt]

Goats. Yeah. Yeah. Great guy too, by the way. I hung out with him. I've met some neat people in this whole world, but like, that, that happened. But I mean, it's, it's so random and it's just, it's player or banker. It's like flipping a coin. And how can you beat flipping a coin? I don't think it is possible there's count at Bakara. There's just, I mean, I don't know. These are way better questions for WBG who's. Who knows everything about gambling. But all I can say is that Mickey Mays looks like he's having a lot of fun and he gets a lot of attention and he gets a lot of airtime and he seems to fly around in jets. And I've seen him have millions of dollars of cash, and he was a young guy and I bet he's having a blast. So more power to him. That's what I say.

[Podcast Host]

What's the biggest loss you've ever seen off camera?

[Vegas Matt]

Well, last night when we were down about $562,000. You were down, I mean, not me, but me and my son and a couple of friends were playing something and just kind of sharing the result. And I was waking up and getting text updates and I, I've seen, I mean, my other, another friend also yesterday. I'm doing, I do a lot of gambling. He, he, he lost, I think almost $400,000 in about 20 minutes. And then he went to another casino and won 2 million. I've just, I seen pretty big losses, but me personally, I don't like to lose a lot, you know, like, I've seen it and I've been, and I've had little slivers of, of the action, but I just, I, I'm. If I lost 50 or $100,000, I, I'd be so mad.

[Podcast Host]

What's the biggest loss you've ever personally experienced off camera?

[Vegas Matt]

Probably like $30,000, something like that. Not, I'm not like, I don't know. I like my money. You know, I don't want to, I don't want to lose it all. So. Yeah, I, I haven't lost that much money myself. Off camera. But I, I do now have a lot of friends that are really big crazy gamblers and that gamble big and they've lost a lot of money.

[Podcast Host]

How do you think experiencing loss at such extreme levels and winning at such extreme levels affects your just like dopamine receptors and do you think that, have you, have you noticed it's more difficult for you to be excited or to feel bored or like these other emotions when you're not gambling?

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah, I mean, I would imagine like that whole dopamine. I mean, I'm not a biologist. I know, I don't know what, what would not, wouldn't be a biology or physio, whatever. I, I don't know anything about chemistry or whatever. I don't know how it works. But I've heard this dopamine stuff is good. Like that's what you get when you look at the tik tok or whatever, you know, I mean, gambling is a, is a rush. It's just like anything else, I suppose that is like maybe an addictive behavior and whatnot. So, yeah, I mean it is, it is fun when you win and it is depressing when you lose. And I guess that that's a dopamine thing. It. And I mean, they have meetings about it, you know, for people who get like addicted to gambling and stuff. So be careful with it. I mean, we, we tried to do a pretty good job of telling people, people, you know, gamble within your means and, and we show our losses. I mean, we were, I think, one of the first groups to really show that you lose a lot. There's actually a couple casinos that don't want us to make content there because they don't like when you show that you lose, which I thought was interesting. But the reality of gambling is you're going to lose. Like unless you're, you know, some Rain man level person, you know, who's way smarter than the average person and way more disciplined. You're going to lose. So it should be recreational. But yeah, it's, it's a lot of fun. I mean, I do it. I did it before I had a channel. It was when I, you know, if I was bored, I would go down and play video poker. I like, I like, I like it. It's fun. I've been doing it since I was in my 20s. I came to Vegas like the first time in like 1984. Been coming here at least once a month for 40 years. So I love it, I always have. But it, yeah, it's like playing with, playing with fire. You Know, got to be careful.

[Graham]

How do casinos actually make their money? Is it through gambling? Is it through selling rooms?

[Vegas Matt]

You know, I don't own one, but I'd like to. I'm pretty sure it has to be from. Mostly from the gambling. But I think these days now there's like all, you know, there's a lot of ancillary revenue sources, like, you know, those super clubs and all these expensive restaurants and the shopping and so forth. The model's probably fairly elaborate, but there can't be anything more profitable than having a machine that every time someone pushes a button, you make 8% of the money. You know, I mean, you think about it like if you have a bank of machines, they're playing the long game. Yeah, someone's going to hit a jackpot over here. But they almost never even have a losing day or week, certainly not month. You know, I mean, it's. So if someone's playing $100 a spin, you know, it's like, spin, spin, spin, spin. $8 to the. Every single time that button is pushed. It's an enormous amount of money that they make on. On slots.

[Podcast Host]

Do they make more money from the high rollers or from the people making smaller bets?

[Vegas Matt]

This would be conjecture. I. But I would think the bigger players. Because if someone's betting $1,000 a spin, right, you know, that's $1,000, thousand dollars, $1,000. If someone's putting a dollar a spin, you know, they'd have to do it a thousand times to get the same coin in. But then there's more smaller players playing small. So I don't know. That'd be a better question for someone who owns a casino and has looked at the math. But it seems like it would take a long time to match the coin in of the bigger players. But again, there are.

[Graham]

I'm thinking.

[Vegas Matt]

I know. I'm just like, I'm making this up as I talk. Because you walk through a casino, you know, you got the big part with just all those machines where the average person's probably betting $5 a spin. And then you go into the high limit room where maybe the average person is betting $100 a spin, again, making that up. But it's. That's 20x. So the question is, are there 20 times more people outside on the floor playing than there is in here? I'm not sure.

[Podcast Host]

But then why with Dana White, has he been banned from some casinos? I don't think he's an edge player, but I. Or I don't think he's an Advantage player.

[Vegas Matt]

I've played with him. I can tell you he is not.

[Podcast Host]

So why did you see him do so?

[Vegas Matt]

I mean, he's on crazy stuff. Like, I mean, he, he, well, not crazy. He's, you know, he's an instinct player. Like, I mean, he, he doesn't, he doesn't play even basic strategy. Like, you know, where there's a mathematical strategy, like there's a, there's a black and white answer to every single situation in blackjack, for example, and, and I've seen him make plays, you know, he'll stay on 16 if he just feels like it, or, you know, he'll hit on something that he's not supposed to, or he'll double something that he's not supposed to or whatever the case may be, like, he plays kind of by his own rules. But I can tell you that sometimes there are some people who are lucky. He's obviously a lucky guy. I mean, president of the ufc, everyone likes him. He's a great, he is an amazing dude. He's maybe lucky. And if you beat casinos for a lot of money, they don't like that.

[Podcast Host]

But still, like, if you're not an advantage player, can't they see it expanded over a long enough time horizon and be like, okay, like, you know, if you bet, you know, coin in $50 million here this year, we're going to end up retaining some of that.

[Vegas Matt]

I think maybe the thing with him is he just bets like for maybe a smaller property or something like that. I think he bets so big that they just are scared of the swing, you know, Like, I mean, that's why these, you know, they, these places have limits, you know, I mean, like, you know, the most you can bet is 10,000, you know, also to prevent people from martingaling, I would imagine. But, you know, some places don't want to take a bet bigger than 10,000 or $20,000, you know.

[Podcast Host]

Have you ever martingaled?

[Vegas Matt]

Oh, yeah, we've done videos while proving it doesn't work.

[Podcast Host]

Did you ever successfully Martingale? What's the worst you've ever lost? Martin Gailing.

[Vegas Matt]

I mean, we, we successfully Martin Gail every single time until you don't, you know, and then mean it can get real bad real quick. So a lot of times, like we'll play especially online, you know, well, you, you bet a hundred dollars and then, so 1002-0040-0800-1600, 3000, 200, 6400, you know, then you're. Pretty soon you're table max, you know, so seven hands in a row until you lose seven hands in a row. You're winning $100 every time. And most you can dodge with the bullet quite a few times. You know, we'll sit there and we'll, we'll do that. 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 60. And you know, we'll win. Win, win, win, win A hundred dollars, $100, $100 win a few thousand dollars. Right? It works out great. Until it doesn't when you just lost 1, 3, 7, whatever. I mean, it becomes, you know, 10, 15, $20,000 loss. The one time you lose seven in a row, you have to add that up. But 6400 plus 3200 plus whatever, 1600. And, and that one time it happens, it just devastates all the money you made along the way. It absolutely proven by us many times does not work. You will get wrecked.

[Podcast Host]

And what about on the topic of getting wrecked? Have you ever seen people freak out at the casino? What's the worst you've ever seen?

[EJ]

Not really.

[Vegas Matt]

Like, I've seen those videos of the guy throwing a chair through the machine and, and whatnot, but. No, but I know. Like, what's even worse, I think, is when you just see someone who's just devastated and they're just quiet, you know, they're on a cruise and, you know, day three of the cruise, you know, they, their credit cards maxed out and they have no money left, and they're just kind of sitting there, there, you know, pretending to play bingo or, you know, I mean, I don't know. Like there's nothing. It's terrible, but I haven't seen anyone really lose their mind, you know, But I know it happens, and it's, it's tragic, but it can happen. You go on tilt. I mean, I've done it, you know, where I just, I just, I just. Oh, I'm gonna get it back. I'm gonna get it back. And then just end up losing way more than you were. Were comfortable doing. And it's, it's sad, but I haven't seen any real big temper tantrums you hear about them.

[Graham]

What about the rumor that, that some of the slots closer to the door pay more than those further in the casino?

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah, it's funny, every, almost every single question we've had as a question of the day on our show, because WBG does a question of the day. I don't believe that that is true. I don't think that they do that. I think the, you know, the machines are set and to change the, the payout, you know, the hold, it's, it, it's a lot of effort. So usually they just set them and, and forget them them and they have a policy like what their machines are set out on the floor. Again, I'm not 100% sure. Like I'm not, I can't speak in absolutes, but from the people that I listen to, what I understand, I think that that is a fallacy. I don't think that there's any truth to that.

[Graham]

And what do you think about online gambling? Is that pulling people away from physical casinos?

[Vegas Matt]

I don't know. I think people who like to gamble like to gamble. Like I really like online gambling. I mean there's no, it doesn't smell like smoke. You can do it from the comfort of your home. I mean not in nevad, but like in like I'll go to Atlantic City or you know, to Pennsylvania or wherever, you know, some of the states where it's legal. And I really enjoy it. You know, I mean they took us to a, what was it? A, a basketball game. Is it Detroit Pistons? Yeah. And I went to the, the game and I'm not a huge sports guy and it was a kind of a blowout and I was kind of bored so I was like sitting there on the court side on my phone gambling, playing Ultimate X and a couple of different games. I really like, I enjoy the online gambling. But I guess if someone has, you know, a X number of dollars available annually for their gambling budget, right. If they're gambling online and losing some of their money, that might take money away from them, what they spend in the, in the offline casinos. I know that, that, that area is, you know, really growing and a lot more and more people are gambling online and betting online and so forth and, and yeah, it's very controversial, but I quite enjoy it. I like it. And then the thing that a lot of people don't know, I think might be interesting is that the return to player is way better online than it is in the casinos. I mean so you can look on the game, there's like an info tab and you can look what the return to player is. And on a game like a six ball, three coin, your classic dragon link esque type of game, there's a lot of those games online as well. Same basic premise. Okay, I want 6 balls and or 3 coins online. I've seen RTPs like 96.4% and probably the best you'll see in a regular physical casino is about 92% and that's more than a 4% difference. It's like almost like twice or three times as good than it is. So it's good RTP, it's good entertainment. Do it from the comfort of your home. Just as long as you do it responsibly. I think it's good. And I don't know how much it's hurt the online casino business. I wouldn't have that data.

[Podcast Host]

Would you quit gambling for life for $20 million?

[Vegas Matt]

I think so. I mean I'd have to quit my channel and everything.

[Podcast Host]

Just quit gambling. Never push a button again. Never bet on something again.

[Vegas Matt]

I don't think so. Right now, 20 million, I mean, I.

[Graham]

Mean after tax, just in your bank account right now.

[Vegas Matt]

Now I'd have to consult with my team of advisors. What, what do you think guys? No, I, I don't think we would.

[Podcast Host]

He just looks over and his son's like sitting in the couch.

[EJ]

E.J.

[Graham]

Shaking his head.

[Vegas Matt]

No, no, no. It just, I just don't think that would be a good financial decision for us right now. You know, because we, we doing very well from gambling and it's a lot of fun, you know. And between the three of us, you know, I mean that would only be like 7 million for me. What am I going to do? 7 million now? It would, I mean, I don't know, like you a money guy. A million. Like when I was a kid, being a millionaire was like a big deal.

[Graham]

You know, it's equivalent to probably what five is today.

[Vegas Matt]

Okay, well I mean I'm a lot older than you. Like I think, I mean that term like was probably coined in the 20s or something like that. So like a 1970s millionaire or 80s millionaire is probably a 20 millionaire. So I think 20 million is a number that you could. If one had 20 million after tax and you invested it intelligently, I mean this is your guys area. But you know, you could live very comfortably on the interest on $20 million forever. You can't have a jet though. And so I still have big goals. If you look in the last chapter of my best selling book, the Art of being Lucky, you know, that's one of my dreams, is to have a, has my own plan plane and you just need a lot of money.

[Graham]

And really quick. I just want to say that it's very easy to lose track of your spending when it quietly fades into the background. I'm talking a few small charges. You didn't really realize forgotten subscriptions. And pretty soon your account is lower than when you started.

[Podcast Host]

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[Graham]

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[Graham]

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Once again, that is f o r a travel.com Iced coffee. Coffee. And be sure to tell them that we sent [e-mail] Iced Coffee link down below in the description. Thank you so much to Fora for sponsoring this episode. Do you ever not want to gamble?

[Vegas Matt]

Sometimes, like, if you get on a really bad losing streak, I've. I mean, I've. We've had conversations where it's like, I'm quitting. This is stupid. You know, like that guy. I've gotten frustrated and. And it never lasts more than a day or two, but, like, we had the worst losing streak. And. And WBG always says, you know, winning streaks and losing streaks, some last longer than you'd ever expect them. Or he said it better than that. But the essence is we just. We just couldn't win. And it was getting. It was bad, you know, because, like, our content is like, okay, welcome to the Vegas Matt Losing His Ass show. You know, and then like, day after day after day after day, we just. We, you know, let's play this. Let's play Huff and Puff. Let's play Dragon Link. Let's play this and just lose, lose, lose, lose. I mean, it was good for the audience to see, you know, there's no magic. You're gonna get wrecked. And so when I lose a lot and then. And just over and over and over and over again. But it. I mean, now that. Big jackpots right around the corner, you know, when we hit that 400,000, that was so. That was insane. And that just. That just made up.

[Graham]

What was the reaction to that?

[Vegas Matt]

I was very enthusiastic. You know, a lot of times I'll do like a victory lap where, like, I run around the machines. Like, I think that's one of the reasons when I first got started, I'm a very emotional, you know, I mean, I wear my. Like, what you see is what you get kind of a thing. And so, like, when I win, I'm elated, and when I lose, I'm mad. And. And that honest reaction, I think, is what kind of how people like. And so the first video that AJ ever uploaded was me. I got a royal flush, and I was just all excited, and it was just my reaction that really got the thing to kind of go viral, and that's what started the whole thing.

[Podcast Host]

How long did that high last after winning 400, $000?

[Vegas Matt]

I don't know. It's still kind of lasting, you know, because we have. We have like a. A Gambling fund. And when that gambling fund is empty and like every day, I have to, like, go to the bank and get $10,000 and bring it to the casino, you know, and say, okay, here's for our video today. Doing that day after day after day after day away with, you know, starts to get kind of annoying with the 400,000. All of a sudden, the whole. The coffers were full, and I haven't had to reach in my pocket now for a couple of months, you know, so it. Maybe that there's still some residual high from that. But, I mean, it was. It was definitely, you know, elation for a day or two. I would say.

[Graham]

How did they pay you $400,000? Is it cash? Is it a check? Is it a wire?

[Vegas Matt]

A lot of it just depends. But I took a check for a lot of it and then some cash. But, you know, I mean, I don't. I don't want to walk around with that. That much cash. But, I mean, they'll pay you however you want. They'll wire it, they'll give you a check, they'll give you cash. They'll leave it on an account for you.

[Graham]

What's the most cash that you've seen in a casino?

[Vegas Matt]

Probably half a million. Quite often I've seen, you know, again, not. Not mine, but I mean, I've seen a lot of people come in with a lot of cash.

[Graham]

I saw Steve will do it. Just dumped a million dollars in front of Red Rock. Did you see that clip?

[Vegas Matt]

No.

[EJ]

Know, yeah.

[Graham]

He just takes a duffel bag full of a million dollars and drops it and just shakes it out, and there's a million dollars spread into valet, and he's like, spillage and just has a million dollars in.

[Vegas Matt]

Steve has.

[Graham]

Laughing at.

[Vegas Matt]

I'm convinced he has a money tree because, I mean, all he's ever doing is just giving people Rolexes and cars and. I mean, and he's. And spending money and gambling and just. Just. I've seen him lose a lot. Maybe he wins a lot, too, but, man, he. He just seems like he has an endless supply of money.

[Graham]

That guy I saw, he just gave, I think it was like $750,000 to Corinna cop over the last month. It was like a GT.

[Vegas Matt]

I've seen her.

[Graham]

Like a GT, 3Rs, Rolexes, cash bags. It's a lot. Yeah.

[Vegas Matt]

He must like her.

[Graham]

See, I just want to know what his taxes are.

[Vegas Matt]

Like, I have no idea. Like, how do you write that he pays them? Yeah.

[Graham]

Because he would have to either give. Give Give someone else a 1099 and then they would be responsible for the taxes. Or he's paying it at his highest tax bracket.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah.

[Graham]

So it costs him like 40% more to pay the other person's taxes on the gifts he's giving.

[Vegas Matt]

How I could text him now. Sometimes he's really good about responding. Sometimes he takes a while. You know how these famous people are sometimes. But I don't know, he doesn't strike me as the type of person who would sit still long enough to answer that question. Or he probably doesn't know and someone else does that for.

[Graham]

Guess it's probably got to be someone else.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah, well, hopefully he's handling it, you know, because I mean, taxes and stuff, all that stuff's really important. You know, I always tell ej, stay on top of all that stuff and pay your taxes and don't get behind and you know all that. Because if you, some of these people that are famous, like athletes and celebrities and stuff like that, they'll make all this money and then they'll buy all these cars and all this jewelry and all this and they'll forget this one little detail of their taxes. And then all of a sudden they have a career ending injury and then they owe, you know, million in taxes and they're dead broke. So that's not good. But I'm. Steve's been doing this for quite a while and is very, very talented guy. And that's cool. We had a million, you know, you got to be careful with that, that much cash around, you know.

[Graham]

Yeah. Speaking of that, what do you think about the recent law that passed that now you could only write off 90% of gambling losses?

[Vegas Matt]

I don't like any taxes any more than the next guy. You know, I mean some people, some was saying the today, you know, like their income tax was originally just a 3% tax in World War II and it was supposed temporary and now it's like 40% of everything you make and there's taxes and taxes on taxes and taxes. And I just registered my car and it was, you know, three, five hundred dollars to register my car for the year. Then if you live in a state where there's state taxes and so forth and so on, and then the gambling, they tax the living daylights out of these, out of the casinos and the casinos almost always win. And then in the rare event where somebody wins more than twelve hundred dollars, they want to get a tax on that. That I think it's ridiculous. And then I also think that it's not good, you Know, because like, if you gamble and you get a hundred thousand dollars worth of W2GS, you know, and. But you have more than a hundred thousand dollars of losses in the past, you could just say, well, I didn't win. It was a net loss. Now they're saying you got to pay taxes on 10, you know, so if you lose a million and you win a million, you still owe taxes on a hundred thousand. I don't like it. I don't think it's fair. I think it's dumb. I think it's going to really hurt the professional, you know, like the poker players and the professional gambling world and sports betting. And I really hope that that gets repealed and we'll see what happens. I've heard some rumors that it might.

[Graham]

Yeah. Why do you think it passed? Who do you think was responsible for that and what do you think is the objective of that? Just from your own opinion?

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah, I feel bad because, like, I don't know anything. I'm just a guy that gambles.

[Graham]

Yeah.

[Vegas Matt]

You know, I mean, I think it passed because it was part of some bill that like, nobody read. And it's like they. They just sit in these rooms and then they. All they do is argue with each other and they say, these people are bad. These people are bad. And then, you know, they try to get you to vote for them. And then if they get a people to vote for them, then they do something and these guys do something and they hate each other and then they just fight all the time. And then eventually they all get really tired because they've been in this room for like seven days straight and someone's saying something has to get done and they're. And then somehow someone puts pressure on some people and then enough people vote for it that if something passes finally and probably 90% of them haven't even read the. Everything that's in there. That's. Yeah, that's my layman's understanding.

[Graham]

I'm going to give you my theory. Go ahead. I'm like 80% sure this is correct.

[Vegas Matt]

I want to hear.

[Graham]

This was just put in a much larger tax bill. It was snuck in there.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah.

[Graham]

People weren't going to vote that out. My assumption and my pure speculation guess is that it's probably the prediction markets someone associated with, for instance, instance, as an example, like Kalshi or Poly Market or some of these prediction markets where it's not considered gambling and they could carve out and they say, okay, 90% of your gambling losses are deductible. But that doesn't apply to us because why else would they do it? They want to dissuade people from gambling. But prediction markets, they're making the case that this isn't gambling. This is a hedge you're making with an educated bet. It is not random chance. And because of that, they could sneak in the little box bill that gets passed and more people now go into prediction markets. That's my theory.

[Vegas Matt]

I think the whole politics thing is really interesting. It's not something that. That we ever talk about because, you know, it'd be really dumb to talk about something that would alienate half your audience. And I don't really have that strong of opinions on any of it. I just think it's all really dumb and they should just. Everyone should just get along and there should be like a law that you can't just spend all your time hating on your opponents and talking crap. Why don't you just spend your energy coming up with intelligent solutions? Now I realize it's infinitely more complicated. I was on the board of my hoa, and after a year, I resigned because I couldn't get anything done. And every decision that we made, half the people hated it and half people, you know, didn't. So I didn't like it at all. But I think that the gambling thing is kind of interesting. And it's just the same as everything else. It's all money and power and so forth. So you've got the, you know, you've got the. The casinos, you got the online casinos, you got the sweepstakes casinos, you got the. The prediction markets. And these guys make a big donation to this guy's campaign in this state. So it's legal in this state, but not in this state because this guy's tighter with this group. And it's all just a big racket to keep all the politicians pockets lined and all the lobbyists and everyone. And there's just so much money. And then they. They don't want to make logical laws or make things universally like, let adults make their own decisions because then stop the whole shell game of everyone getting in everyone's pockets and having to pay all these lawyers to figure out all these complicated things. And I'm just. Quite honestly, I don't like it. It's nonsense. And it's like, it's like gambling or smoking or drinking or anything. It's like, do we want to live in a totalitarian state where someone tells you you can do this and not this and, you know, whatever? Or it's like our own, we big People, let's just make our own decisions and, and do what we want. We don't need the government telling us what to do and not do. I guess if I were to ever talk about politics, that's what I would say. It's just. I think it's a big scam. And, you know, there's like, so much waste, and they waste so much time. I mean, I don't know, like, maybe that. Again, I don't have the answer. If I was president, I wouldn't fix it. But, like, it's. Makes something like a universal sales tax or something like that. But, like, the, the IRS code's like 80 billion pages long. Nobody understands it. Nobody knows how to do it. It's like you just hope you don't get audited. And then even the auditors, some. I've been audited three times in my life. You know, they, they. They sometimes can't even agree on things. And the amount of records that they would expect one to keep to be able to be within, like, the letter of the law. It's just a big extortion game, in my opinion, from the people.

[Podcast Host]

That was a phenomenal rant. I could see you behind a big podium speaking this to an audience, gaining a bunch of votes.

[Vegas Matt]

Well, I don't want to run for office, man. It's. It's a thankless job. And again, I'm not saying that, you know, like, all, like some. I'm sure politicians are very nice. Nice people, you know, very nice people on both sides. Yeah, you're doing it. But I'm sure there's some. They're very nice people. And I'm just saying, just looking at the gambling thing, because there's this. There's online, there's offline, there's the, the tribal gaming, there's this. And these are all. They all have politicians that they are in with. And then they're, They're. They're just jockeying, and then they're just. And then they're trying to undermine Guy and, oh, well, I'm gonna get this passed. And like, what you had suggested, like, oh, well, we're kind of treated differently for tax purposes, so if we could screw them, it would be really good for us. And I just don't like it. I just wish people would just be nicer. People just love drama and, you know, and all that kind of stuff. And I, I just try not to get involved in. Our show is kind of a break from all that. I mean, WBG is making just really dumb puns, like brilliant and does, like, rapid fire left and right. And people just enjoy his humor. People like the father, son Dyn that me and my son have. You know, our. Our show is just a couple of idiots getting together, gambling every day and having fun, and people watch it to get away from, you know, all that craziness.

[Graham]

One thing I wanted to ask you about. You mentioned this quite a bit in our previous podcast, Running for the hoa. Why did you run for hoa?

[Vegas Matt]

Well, because my house got broken into. And I, you know, was like, why don't we have better security? You know, we pay all this money. And, you know, I said I was in an uproar. And then I. And then I started talking to everybody and. And then next thing I know, like, someone said, you know, you should be on the HOA board. And then I'm like, okay. And then I like to win. So then I just, like, you know, got all the votes and I won in a landslide. And then I'm. I found myself on the board, and I don't understand any of the, you know, how the meetings are run. And I'm just like. They would talk about the architectural committee, you know. Well, that whole XYZ address is like, three feet too close to the curb. And. And I'm like, I don't know about any of this. And they're like, oh, well, this landsc. You know, we should be doing this. And I'm like, I don't care about this. And then the security stuff, I'd be like, well, let's do this. And then we'd get, you know, we'd get a bid on it and be like, yeah, that's a great idea. That would probably work. Okay, so everyone's dues would go up $1,000 a month. And I'm like, okay. And then they're like, people will cry if you raise the dues $20 a month. I'm like, so we can't do that. No. What about this? Well, that's good. That's what this is going to cost. And everything costs too much money. And then there's the people who don't want to pay. They don't want the dues to get increased. And then. And then security is a tough thing, too. Like, we had the police come and everything like that. I mean, it's like, there's going to be crime. You know, the best thing you can do is take precautions. You know, the sad reality is there's people that are, you know, that want your things, and they will take them from you if you don't guard them and then getting them armed. There's all kinds of rules and so forth.

[Graham]

Well, that's why our HOA dues went up like $150 a home times hundreds of houses. But yeah, it was increased cost of patrol plus increased insurance.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah. And then it's like how many, you know, much area is there to patrol? Because all they got to do is like sneak in, sneak out and, but yeah, but crime, I mean, there's these, are like all these topics are just very very, you know, very, very difficult. And that's why I, I, I mean, I'm trying to be ever too critical about politicians because they have an impossible job. It's very, very difficult to come to decisions that please everybody.

[Podcast Host]

I really like that ring, by the way. That ring is cool. I like the, on the side. That's pretty sweet.

[Vegas Matt]

Versus three sevens.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, the three sevens. I noticed that you're wearing quite a bit of jewelry.

[EJ]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

And you usually do. And you also pulled up in Colin, a very, very nice Rolls Royce. And you said it was like the Black Label one, which is the Black Badge.

[Graham]

Black Badge, not Black Label.

[Vegas Matt]

Black Label, that's whiskey.

[Podcast Host]

Okay. The Black Badge Rolls Royce. I'm not quite there yet. I'm not there yet. Black Badge Rolls Royce. How much did you spend on that Rolls?

[Vegas Matt]

I have a Bargain Hunter, you know, like, I, I, I bought it a couple years old, still under warranty. I think the retail is like 450. I got it for 2, 280.

[Podcast Host]

Why did you buy it?

[Vegas Matt]

Because I love it. I don't know. Like I say, I, I just, I don't know. I like having fun. I like good things, you know, Like, I, I, I don't mean to shamelessly plug my book the Art of Being Lucky, but I, I, I talk about all that in my book, and a lot of it has to do with like, my childhood, you know, and, and it's actually, I worked my ass off on this book. It is hard to write a book. Have you written a book yet? No. You need to write a book, Grant. You too. And it takes a lot longer and it, it's just really, really hard to encapsulate. You know, this is my kind of my life story with like, some lessons and what I've learned and so forth. But I went like, I went to a really upper middle class high school, you know, where it was really competitive. There was a movie with Tori Spelling, I think it was called Cheerleader or something like that. Like, I used to babysit the girl that got. And it was like, that was a. Their family friend. And the reason it happened was because, like, she was a really popular cheerleader. And then there was this other girl who was like, her family, you know, didn't have the money. There was like a comment made about her clothing. And. And. And it was so intense and just hard to explain. Kind of like mean girls meets, you know, whatever else. And.

[Podcast Host]

And.

[Vegas Matt]

And I just was a weird environment, and I was always kind of like, I wasn't, you know, on the football team. I wasn't like on the front lawn, you know, with the cool kids and whatnot. And so it just motivated me my whole life, you know, to just do better and to do, you know, to be. And so sometimes, like, the trappings of success, you know, like the jets and the Rolls Royces and stuff, I can't help myself, you know, but just kind of say, like, hey, I did pretty good, you know, and so I just. I get a kick out. My son, on the other hand, you know, he's got a Toyota truck. He doesn't care. You know, he's like, you. He's like, how many zeros in your bank account? You know, But I mean, the jewelry kind of start off as a joke. I bought this because I thought it gold was going up, and I bought it at meltdown value and I wore it in a video, and a bunch of people said I look like an old idiot. And. And so the engagement was good in the comments, and so I just said, well, I'm going to wear it every day then. And then. Then this I had made just because I thought it was kind of cool, because we have this neat Vegas matte logo with the handle. And then there's a local jeweler here in town, shout out to the guys at Jewel Trends. They're really nice guys in my neighborhood, and they made this for me. And. Yeah, so I wear this every day. My wedding ring, I've had forever. I got this watch when we hit 100,000 subscribers. And I've always wanted one of these gold presidentials that the presidents wear. And this. Then this. This was a new addition. A lot of people called it the unlucky bracelet because I started really losing right after I got this bracelet, coincidentally. And then I had it cleansed with sage and stuff like that in case it actually was unlucky. But I got this from someone again. I. I just bought it for. I had my jeweler tell me how much these diamonds were worth individually, how much this gold is worth. And I just paid slightly more than what the meltdown value is. So it's a decent investment and it just kind of of as a thing, you know, Vegas, matte, flashy jewelry, whatever. Yeah, but I, I mean, it's. It's a hybrid of my psychological profile from my childhood and just, I like cool stuff.

[Podcast Host]

How much did you pay then for that chain and what's it worth now? Because gold's gone up.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah, a lot. I bought it like three years ago and I think I paid 10,000. It's probably worth 20,000 now. So something like that. It's. This one's 10 karat, this one's 18 karat. This, this is like a pound of 10 carat. So whatever. I don't know the formula to figure it out, but I mean, gold is expensive now.

[Graham]

That's why I bought this watch. So I bought this watch about eight months ago, and I paid $12,500 for this. And I bought it because the melt value of this was like 10,500. So I figured I'd pay $2,000 basically for a really rare Rolex.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah.

[Graham]

And now with gold prices up, the melt value is worth more than I paid for the watch.

[Vegas Matt]

And so I got a free Rolex. Smart. Yeah, that's. I mean, those are good. Like buying the, you know, the right watches and stuff, if you're going to waste your money, get something that, you know, saves value. The cars, obviously, is just straight dumb jets. Straight dumb. But, you know, we work. I mean, we work so hard. Like, I. I don't think there's anyone that outworks us. I mean, it would be difficult and not necessarily me, but, you know, Robert and EJ, those guys work, like literally probably 16, 18 to EJ, probably 16. Robert probably more like 18 to 20 hours a day. He doesn't sleep. And so, you know, every once in a while you treat yourself. But that, you know, might as well if you're going to make some money, you know, you're going to spend it, buy something intelligent, like, so good, good buy on that watch. You want to sell it?

[Graham]

No.

[Podcast Host]

We had asked you this last time and it went pretty viral and I, I want to see if your answer has changed any bit in the past year or so. Would you say, are you addicted to. Addicted to gambling?

[Vegas Matt]

I don't know. Like, I mean, that addiction is such a complex, you know, topic, you know, not an addiction expert, but I certainly enjoy it, you know, a lot. And it's what I love to do. And, and again, I think I said earlier, even if I'm not Working, you know, or making content. And I have a free Sunday here in town. There's a very good chance that I'm going to be gambling. And I don't find many other things as stimulating, you know, if I'm on vacation. We were on a cruise recently, and, you know, we stopped in Puerto Rico, and, you know, I went to the beach and I walked on the beach for a little while. I'm like, hey, I'm walking on the beach. You know, I don't know if you've ever been there. I'm like, yeah, I'm sitting in the sun. And then it got kind of hot, you know, and then we went to the shopping area, you know, and the street. Nothing but the crap you see everywhere. And, like, don't need any of that. Then I went on a little tour where they said, you know, in 1697, this is where I forget now, but it was a lot of history in Puerto Rico. And, you know, this is in the. All these statues of presidents. And I drove around the main area, and then I'm like, okay, that was cool. And then we still had, like, six hours to kill, so I was like, ah, let's go to the casino. So I don't know. I. I mean, addicted maybe, you know, but I. I definitely. I think I could quit, you know.

[Graham]

How long could you go without gambling?

[Vegas Matt]

I mean, not more than a day with. Because I need to put out a video every day.

[Podcast Host]

But let's, let's remove that. How long could you go without gambling? Until it gets uncomfortable.

[Vegas Matt]

Oh, I don't know. I. I've never done it, like, in so long I couldn't even tell you. Like, I mean, something, you know, I was at my doctor today, and by the way, my blood work was incredible. Oh, yeah. My doctor asked me, how often are you in the casino? And I think it's probably. Probably 28 out of 30 days. I. I maybe take two days a month off, maybe it's probably more like 29.

[Podcast Host]

Would you say the world would be a better place if gambling was illegal?

[Vegas Matt]

Oh, I don't know. I mean, if gambling was illegal, like, I would think the world would be a better place if, you know, if. As long as you didn't, like, hurt someone, that you could do what you wanted and you didn't have someone telling you what to do. You know what I mean? Like, obviously, obviously, like, violence should be illegal, but I don't. I don't think that something that an adult chooses to do is. Should I. Should. Someone else should be able to Tell me what I can and can't do with money that I've earned and paid taxes on. So I don't know. But does it cause harm and stuff like that? I would imagine yes. You know, there are people who maybe don't have enough money and then they start gambling and they think that's going to be their ticket to ride. But then again, franchises, you know, a lot of people buy franchises and they think that they're just gonna, you know, it's gonna be easy, they've got to buy a franchise and then they open up the doors and nobody comes and they don't follow the playbook and then they lose their life savings on a franchise. So should franchises be illegal? A lot of people think, oh, I'm, I watched Million Dollar Listing, I'm going to become a Realtor and that's how I'm going to make my fortune. And then they don't work hard and they don't follow up and they don't respond to their texts from clients and they don't do anything and they don't show any houses and they, or they're too dumb to pass the test and they don't make any money becoming a Realtor. So should, should becoming a realtor be illegal? Where do you draw the line? Like, I don't, I just think you can lose money at anything. And so I think people should be able to make their own decisions. I don't, I don't really, I'm not really big on people telling me what to do.

[Podcast Host]

I tend to agree. I think everything in life is kind of a double edged sword. Some people are going to benefit from the exact stimulus and then other people will suffer consequences from the exact same stimulus. It's just kind of a matter, a matter of like, you know, where you take the hand that you're dealt.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah, I mean, I just like trying to legislate behavior and stuff is just, it's just impossible. And if you made it illegal, then there would just be more illegal gambling.

[Graham]

The new debate right now is whether or not the prediction markets are gambling and whether or not that is considered gambling or that is something that you could have an educated, you know, place of money on. Let's say like instead of betting what the weather is, you have a historical, you know, knowledge on what the weather is in Boston tomorrow and can place money on that.

[Vegas Matt]

It's good, it's gambling. I don't know, like you're asking me if it's gambling. I mean, I, I know that on the prediction markets, you can bet on the football game.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Vegas Matt]

So that's.

[Graham]

But, but you could argue, and they argue that some people have more knowledge than others on which team is statistically more likely to win and therefore you could have an edge based on your experience. Experience with that thing.

[Vegas Matt]

My answer would be who cares? Do it all. It doesn't make any difference. It's stupid. It just gives more lawyers and politicians and lobbyists and, and people excuses to take money from people and find people and run their whole extortion racket.

[Graham]

It does, it does. But then what's interesting is that people don't view day trading stocks or buying options or selling options the same way at all. It's even though to me that's risky, that's riskier. Extremely risky. Not.

[Podcast Host]

Not selling options. But yeah, covered calls.

[Vegas Matt]

Nothing wrong with COVID My cover calls is a good strategy. Yeah, WBG taught me that one. But it, but again, all these young kids, I've seen so many of them and, and some of these rackets that come along with like, oh, some super duper trading software and people think they're going to make money trading options or trading commodities or whatever it is. I don't do any of it but like I've seen countless people, they go, oh man, I've been doing it on test mode and I'm making 10% a day. I'm about ready to in. And then they take their whole IRA and put it in. They start trading it on this software and then they have. There's one really volatile day in the market and then they lose everything. Happens every single time. That should be illegal, but you know, or should it? I just don't really believe in legislating people's behavior unless they're hurting somebody. That's just my opinion.

[Podcast Host]

I am curious now that you're going to these casinos all the time and you're, you're more popular than you've ever been. Been. How difficult is it now becoming to go gamble publicly?

[Vegas Matt]

We, I walk into, you know, some of the casinos that we play at regularly and there are fans there just like waiting to get pictures and it's just so humbling and I, I just absolutely love it. And there. And 99.9% of the people are just so nice and it's just like I feel like I know you. I'm like, well you do. You listen to us every day and, and, and it's, it's a lot of, of fun. And we generally now play places where they make it really easy for us to film. So once I Get done with all the hellos and the taking of the pictures and so forth. Once we set up and we start filming, there's usually a little bit of a perimeter around us, weirdly, and. And people watching and saying, hey, you know, they'd love to take a picture with you. Let's wait till they finish filming. And it's. It's super fun, like, every day. It's like, I never would have dreamt that there'd be people that would even give a shit about taking a picture with me, you know, now there's like, I'll come out of the high limit, and then the casino manager or whoever's with us will say, okay, you guys line up. And then there'll be, like, a line of, like, 20 people to get a picture. It's so awesome. And so it takes me, you know, five or 10 minutes, but it's just the most flattering thing in the world. And it's fun, and the people are super nice, and I'm so happy that they watch. We wouldn't be anything if it wasn't for all those people. So it's a little more complicated to film people because of the. The attention, but it also makes it more fun, and. And we get it done.

[Podcast Host]

What's the craziest gift you've ever received?

[Vegas Matt]

The craziest gift, bar none. We meet these guys. They want to do business with us. We'd never heard of them. We're at the super bowl, and we're texting, or our manager's texting them and says, hey, blah, blah, blah. And then she text us, says, hey, these guys, they seem nice. They really want to meet you. Can you meet him, you know, in front of this bar in New Orleans? And so we meet them, and then they're, like, all in suits, and we're like, just Mardi Gras it up. And we start walking and talking with them, and they're pretty nice. And then we ended up on this park, and we just sitting on, like, a park bench with, like, seagulls. It was weird. And we're having this, like, somewhat serious meeting, and then at the end, they're like, well, it was really, really nice to meet you. And by the way, we brought you a gift. Congratulations on hitting a million subscribers. I'm like, oh, that's nice. And there's this bag and tissue paper and stuff. And I open it up, and it's a. It's a Rolex, and it was. It was silver. And I'm thinking, you know, it's probably a stainless brat. It's $10,000. It's a, you know, pretty decent gift, and from some random guys that are just trying to do some business with us. And then. And then I open it up and I. And I put it on. I'm like, wow, it's heavy. Well, it's platinum, and it was like a solid platinum presidential Rolex as a. Just a random gift. So someone gave us. So that was. That was interesting.

[Graham]

It's probably worth 40 to 60 grand.

[Vegas Matt]

I think it was 65 retail.

[Graham]

Wow.

[Podcast Host]

Did you end up doing business with.

[Vegas Matt]

Them after a long courtship? Like, that was kind of an interesting first date. But, yeah, we ended up doing business with them. And I think that's actually a smart strategy for anyone watching. I mean, get us a. A $65,000 gift for us. Yeah, I'll take it. Yeah, you guys. But, you know, funny enough, we did, and I think that definitely got our attention. But, yeah, that was a weird. That was weird. I forgot about that. Thanks, cj.

[EJ]

Wow.

[Graham]

Now, for a lot of the casinos, what's the biggest deal you've seen in terms of offering influencers to use their product or to gamble at their casino?

[Vegas Matt]

I can tell you this much that one of my friends who is in this space, who had been doing it a lot longer than me, we sat at dinner at the Cosmopolitan, and I'm young and fresh, and I've always been in sales, and I'm enthusiastic, and I, I. And I'm like, man, these casinos, they're going to. They are going to pay, and they're going to be dying to have us. And I, I'm so mad. We got kicked out of the, you know, for filming or whatever. He's like, they're never going to get it. Believe me. I've been beating my head against the wall for years. They're never going to get it. And I go, they're going to get it. They're going to see the value. And I can just tell you it's come a long way, and it's getting better all the time. And the casinos that have, you know, done intelligent deals with influencers are really seeing the benefits. And I think it's still very, very out of whack. Like, the money that the influencers are making for the casinos, they're. They're getting way the better end of the deal. And I think there's a lot, lot more room for the influencers to make even more money before a true equilibrium that's fair is really reached. But there, some of them are getting more and more generous all the time. It's getting better and better and better. It's a really fun space and it's been fun being involved in it and watching it kind of come from. You can't film here to please, will you come here? We'll send you a plane. Yeah, it's quite a, it's, it's, it's quite fun and really quick.

[Graham]

I just want to say that you don't have to overhaul your entire life going into the new year. Sometimes it's as simple as making a few smart swaps, especially with what you're snacking on.

[Podcast Host]

And that's exactly why we are super excited to be sponsored by Masa. They make tortilla chips with real ingredients, so snacking actually feels simple instead of something that's restrictive. And guys, what's actually crazy is that Masa chips are made with just three ingredients. Organic nix, demolized corn, sea salt and 100% grass fed beef tallow. And that's it. No seed oils, no fillers, just real food.

[Graham]

And the best part is that you don't have to taste compromise. These chips are genuinely phenomenal and they're nothing like regular chips. They leave you feeling satisfied and energized, not slightly sluggish and heavy. There's no crash, no bloat. You feel great after eating them.

[Podcast Host]

My personal favorite is the barbecue flavor. It's actually like phenomenal. And I made a massive mistake because I had one bag left. I was hosting a party, I brought the bag out and it got eaten in like two or three minutes. And that was really unfortunate. So I brought out a bag of the original flavored, which also got eaten in like four or five minutes. And that just goes to show how absolutely delicious these chips are. And I know it sounds ridiculous and of course there's a sponsor, so of course I'm going to say this. They really are that good. And because they're made with real ingredients, they're also much more filling. So you're not just going to sit down, eat an entire bag and then still feel hungry afterwards.

[Graham]

If you want to try Masa chips, head to masachips.com ICED and use the code ICED to checkout for 25% off your first order. Or you could scan the QR code on the screen and the link is also down below in the description. And if you don't want to order online, Masa is now available nationwide at Sprouts, so make sure to grab a couple of bags the next time you're there. Now, usually Fridays are about easing into the weekend. But during NBA season, the energy starts even before the games tip off.

[Podcast Host]

That's why we're excited to be sponsored by FanDuel and their NBA Happy Hour every Friday from 6:00 clock to 7:30 Eastern. It's your pregame for the weekend. That includes boosts, bonuses and surprises that are only available during that window. And the offer changes every week. It's a simple way to check what's available before the first game starts and to make a move before the night gets going. Just be sure to get in before the shot clock expires at 7:30 Eastern and once happy hour ends, those start specials are gone.

[Graham]

It's an easy way to kick off the weekend. A little basketball, a little action and that Friday night NBA energy.

[Podcast Host]

That's NBA Happy Hour every Friday from 6 to 7:30pm Eastern only on FanDuel, the official sportsbook partner of the NBA. And of course I want to make it crystal clear sports betting is not investing. It's just something that I like to do for fun and watching the NBA, watching the NFL is very fun, but it's a little bit more fun when you have a couple bucks on the game. So it's just something I like doing. This is for 21 and President. Select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18/ plus and President in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Often required rewards are non withdrawable restrictions. Instructions apply including bonus and token expiration leg requirements and match wager amounts. C [e-mail] gambling problem call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com call 1-887-897777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit ndgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is there. Visit gamblinghelpinema.org or call 800-32755 for 24. 7 supporting Massachusetts or call 187 78, Hope NY or text Hope NY in New York.

[Graham]

For the average person, what's the best way to get comps at a casino?

[Vegas Matt]

Well, I think that one is I, I would suggest, you know, you pick one casino or casino group and you play play there consistently. You always use your players card. You, you swipe your card at the kiosk, take advantage of all the promos, read the mailers that they send to you and so forth. So just I think it's just a matter of playing. One of the mistakes a lot of people make is they'll go and they'll play and they'll, they will Only play just a little bit. Like, they might just go like, oh, I have $100 in free play. And they'll go and they'll take the free play and then they'll leave. And, and what they, I think the math, it's all varies, but for the most part, they do it based on your average session, you know, from your last X number of visits. So if you're going to play, you should play quite, quite a bit at, at the casino. And if you want to like, maintain your offers and earn the most comps, which was your original question. I'm not saying, I'm not advocating gamble more than you should. Yeah. But if you're going to, don't hit and run. If you want to build up some good comps, you want to have when you go and go gamble at a place, like if you go to Vegas for the weekend, you want to do the majority of your play at the place where you're staying, you know, so you, so you put a lot of coin in. You know, they look at you that the, the, the EV that they're, they're expected win from you is higher and then because that's what's going to determine the offer that they send you next.

[Graham]

So here's what's interesting. We went to a casino and a buddy was playing blackjack. Went to talk with the person in charge of, I guess, comps. They looked at his play and they said, hey, listen, you' only playing $25 a hand. We can't offer you any comps. You need to play minimum $100 a hand to start getting comps. And the comps would include free food or free hotel, things like this. Slabs like that.

[Vegas Matt]

Comps are a lot better from slots than they are from tables.

[Graham]

Yeah, this was for table games.

[Vegas Matt]

T because the thing about it, blackjack is really a half percent, or let's call it a 1%. People don't play perfect and 1% hold for the casino. So if you're betting $100 a hand, they're making, mathematically that they're making a dollar a hand, less labor cost, insurance, you know, security, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It's not like there's a lot of meat on the bone. Now contrast that with slots. Every $100 you put into a slot machine, they're making 8 to 12% more than likely. So they're going to be able to comp you a lot more. Plus there's no, they're not paying a dealer for a slot machine. It's just electricity. So yeah, the comps on table games, I think that's probably very accurate. You're a big table games player. You're going to get comped, you're playing thousand dollar hands of baccarat every hand. If they're making 1%, I mean it still is only 10 bucks.

[Graham]

It seems like the bar has risen so high. I remember in 2011 I could go to M Resort, spend 500 bucks for the whole weekend playing craps and table games. They would compass free food every single day and every three third trip and get a free room. And that was just spending like 500 at, you know, craps.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah.

[Graham]

Back then and now I can't even imagine how many thousands of dollars it would take.

[Vegas Matt]

It's gotten very corporate Vegas. Like in the 80s, you know, when I was young, it was the power of the pen and a lot of it was your relationship, who you knew. You know, there were some people who were really good at working the hosts and they thought they were much bigger players than they were. And I mean it was a paper comp slip, you know, and they would just write up a comp.

[Graham]

That's what I used to get.

[Vegas Matt]

And nowadays it's all computerized and it's just, you know, it's formulas and it's like, okay, profits are down. We're going to change the point value on this, that and the other thing. And it's all very, very, very corporate with the multi billion dollar corporations running most of the bigger casinos. And so yeah, I think that has a lot to do with it. It's corporate greed. I like the good old days. You know, I was going to say when the mob ran this town, but I'm not going to say that. But I guess they did. Wasn't it like in the history. Didn't Bugsy Siegel and those guys. I mean, I'm just a historian, you guys. We definitely talk to EJ and WBG a little bit too because those guys you talk about when you think of Vegas Matt, like it's not Vegas Matt, like me, it's Vegas Matt is, you know, me, Robert, ej, John, the whole cast nowadays. And, but I'm, I'm happy to answer a question, but don't want you to forget to talk to those guys because they're the heart and soul of this, of everything that we do. And, and they do all the work.

[Podcast Host]

So we're going to ask you a couple more questions and then get on to the finances of everything because we're very curious. We're like a Financial podcast. But these two questions that I have. First for you. What is your dream? Dream gamble, but dream. Yeah. Like, is there something that you've always wanted when you're at the casino, like hitting this one bonus or maybe like putting a million dollars on a hand like Dana White says, or betting on one thing or another.

[Vegas Matt]

Well, I mean, right, I want to get the million dollar grand, you know, or the two million dollar grand on Dragon Link, which is, you know, something that. It's like the prize that, you know, that doesn't hit very often. Some people have gotten it. I've never gotten that. There's a game called Buffalo Gold collection where the 15 buffalo heads. There's a game called Wolf Peak where we've never gotten the bonus. We've probably put hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars through the machine and we've never triggered the bonus. So want to get the Wolf. Wolf Peak bonus? Be sure to ask that question of VJ and wbg because I'm sure there's stuff that I'm forgetting. I've talked about doing a million dollar hand. The problem is no one will take the action. You know, we.

[Podcast Host]

What about Dana?

[Vegas Matt]

I. I think, you know, he's got special, you know, special.

[Podcast Host]

But you could go head to head with him.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah, I suppose. But does he bet a million a hand? Does a Caesars or whoever take a million? I don't know. I thought it was like 250.

[Podcast Host]

But you, I'm saying you and Dana could go. You play the house or he plays the house. And it's just exchanging 1 million from one person, that would be.

[Vegas Matt]

That would be illegal.

[Graham]

Is it?

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah, I think so. It could be for entertainment purposes or gamma. I don't know. Like you say, everything's illegal.

[Podcast Host]

I'm sure Dana could get a license if he.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah, I mean, give him a call. I'd love to. I'd love to see him again. I haven't seen him in a while. We, Me and Steve and Dana played slots. And Dana's like, slots? The hell's wrong with you guys? And then Steve was like fast spinning $250 spin. Huff and puff and I had like me, we were chopping the ticket, you know, so I'm like, slow down there. Steve and I, this guy's great. And then boom, he hit something. We won like $37,000. And then Dana's like, wow, that's really cool. And it was a great video. And Dana was very nice. I don't know him well enough. Like, I don't have his phone number. I couldn't text him and say, hey, Danny, you want to bet a million? But that would be really cool. If you guys are ra range of that, I'll definitely go. But the casinos, like, you'd be surprised. Like, the, the limits are not that high. Now you can negotiate special limits. Like if you put five or $10 million. They don't want just one hand for a million dollars. You know, they might get really beat. They want you to put up front money or wire in $10 million. Then they'll let you play maybe a half a million a hand or something like that. Because they, they, they have a very good chance of beating you for the whole 10 million because you're not going to play one hand in court.

[Graham]

Why not do four hands at the same time? 250,000 each?

[Vegas Matt]

No, it sounds fun to me.

[Graham]

You don't think they would allow that?

[Podcast Host]

I mean, you're splitting the risk more.

[Graham]

Again, you want one hand, $1 million.

[Vegas Matt]

I mean, that would, I just think it would be cooler to do like one hand for a million dollars. Like when we hit a million subscribers. That's what I wanted to do. But we couldn't find anyone that would take that bet from us. The biggest we got was the pepper mill, said they take a hundred thousand. And so we did a hundred thousand dollar hand to baccarat. And I'm telling you, I almost passed out. I mean, that was, that was a lot, you know, $100,000, a lot of money. And it's like $100,000, one hand of bakarat. And then we got like a natural 8 or natural 9. And I just jumped up and then I almost passed out. It was really funny.

[Graham]

What was that feeling like?

[Vegas Matt]

It was awesome. I mean, because it felt so great to win. I would have felt like a complete idiot. Like, all right, we hit a million subscribers, and to celebrate, I'm going to lose $100,000 dollars. You know, that's just dumb. So it's always, always the videos do better when we win. But, you know, people always say, oh, it's rigged. They're paid by the casino. It's like, I wish. Oh, it's real money, you know, I mean, yes, we make money, you know, but that's my money. That's like saying a doctor comes and gambles and says, well, it's not really his money because he makes so much as a doctor. Like, okay, we make a lot of money as a YouTuber, but YouTube sends me my check and I go gamble it. If I lose it I lose it, the casino's not going to give me the money back. You know what I mean? So. But it's much more fun when you win those big hands, but it's terrible when you lose them.

[Podcast Host]

If you could only play one game for the rest of your life, what game would it be?

[Vegas Matt]

If it was a, like a casino table game? Bachara I think we, again, we all of us have popularized the game of baccarat. And, and I think that Vegas Matt started playing that a lot. And, and we, you know, we peel the cards back. You know, like it's kind of the tradition in the, in the peel Bachrach game. And everyone always comments, they're like, you guys are so obnoxious, bending those cards. You know, you think you're so special and it's like, it's part of the culture, you know, like you, you look in the big high limit, the Asian, you know, gaming, it's like that's what they do. They sit there and it's a very social game. And so whoever bets the most gets to touch the cards. That's how it works. So if you're the one, if you're the biggest, better, they push the, and then you get to look and you peel it up and you see, oh, there's three dot, there's three diamonds. Okay. It's a, it's a six, seven or an eight. Let me look at the other one. No dots. It's an ace, two or three. And you know, it's, it's, it, you can build tension and it's, it's fun and everyone's around and you're all betting, you know, either player or banker. It's a very social game. So like when we go out at night and we're, you know, we're all having fun, we always end up in the, in the baccarat. The other night we were playing, playing and we first of, you know, I don't know how this happens. We always bet banker and so we sit down banker and then we just run into it like an eight player streak. So you know, first we bet a thousand, we bet a couple thousand, we bet 6,000, we bet 10,000. And we got to the point where you were down 65,000 in a matter of like about seven or eight hands. And there was a few of us kind of going in on it and then we bet $45,000 on one hand and then we finally won and then we won a couple more and we ended up breaking and. But that was like a 45 minutes of just absolute hilarity and fun. So it's a. So long answer to your short question is love, Bakara, that's dangerous because it.

[Podcast Host]

Makes me want to gamble, but I'm not, I can't, I can't do that.

[Graham]

Hypothetically, if you could be the house, would you put up a million dollars against a hand of black? No, but if you were the house, you'd have a, an advantage half percent. Would you?

[Podcast Host]

No, you wouldn't. That's a horrible question.

[Graham]

Why would that be a horrible question? Because why would I do that? You have a statistical edge.

[Podcast Host]

My life, if I get a million dollars right now, would be maybe, maybe 10 to 15%. Like, like better than if I lost 1 million. My life would be like 100% worse. So like that's, you know what I mean? Like, I'm just saying the risk.

[Graham]

What a 500,000?

[Vegas Matt]

No, if you had a chance to be the house, you should definitely do it. Like, I mean, but, but maybe one hand. But if you could be the, if you could be the house for a month, then you'd win 100% of the time, right?

[Podcast Host]

But like me, me doing a million is like, is the same thing as me. Hey, Graham, would you do it? $10 million, you're the house. Would you do it one hand?

[Vegas Matt]

No, I wouldn't do.

[Podcast Host]

There you go. I mean, I think it's.

[Vegas Matt]

But you would do it if you could be the house for like, if you could take the house's side, any casino in this town for a month. Oh yeah, it would take you crazy not to.

[Podcast Host]

Cuz you're going to one hand. That's, that's why the casinos don't even do it.

[Vegas Matt]

One hand. Yeah, one hand is, is risky. But you know, being the house is.

[Graham]

My understanding with one hand on a hand of blackjack, if you're the house, you have a 53% chance of winning one single hand. I know this because I go to the casino a lot and I just place one bet and that's it. One bet. If I win, I double and if I lose, I walk away.

[Vegas Matt]

Oh.

[Graham]

So I've always gone in thinking, where am I going to get my best odds? And that's usually Bacharach, because blackjack, you're not likely to win on one hand. You're likely to get 50, 50 over like a 10 to 20 hands.

[Vegas Matt]

Well, I mean, that's, that's because every time you play a hand, you're giving away a little bit more. So the best gambling strategy, if you really wanted to maximize it if you had a budget of $1,000 would be to bet it on one hand. Yes. Then just. And then quit.

[Podcast Host]

Yes.

[Vegas Matt]

Regardless of what happened. And then you. And then over time, you probably would win about half the time, you know, so that's a smart strategy. No surprise. Young Graham.

[Podcast Host]

We want to talk about some YouTube numbers, the business you guys are doing. So we're going to bring EJ on here. All right. So we've brought EJ on as well, because you're kind of like the brains behind the finances and YouTube strategy. Money strategy.

[EJ]

Right, sure. WBG and I. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

So how much are you allowed to lose per video?

[EJ]

I don't think we really think about it in those terms anymore. I think that the expected loss of one of our videos is probably around $4,000. So that's. That's our cost. That's before, like, any free plays or offers we get just from our play, which is generally in the range of, I don't know, 300 to $1,000 per day. So we don't really think about it like that anymore. We can, fortunately, now we could lose a lot on a video and it wouldn't make much of a difference. It's all. As long as we are making the right decisions and we understand what the results could potentially be, we will do things smart. Like, we. We did a thousand dollars a spin for hitting 1.25 million, and we figured, okay, we could possibly lose 100,000 if we do $125,000 spins in a worst case. And we were like, we can live with that. That's not the expected result. The expected result is probably lose 14, 15,000. We lost a hundred. And there was a big contingent of people blaming me for that, but it went about as bad as it could have possibly gone. And we lost a hundred grand that day.

[Vegas Matt]

We actually made an I blame EJ T shirt. Yeah, him. Because we switched machines and everyone blamed him for switching machines. But we ended up doing well on the T shirt.

[EJ]

No. Yeah, we might have made a couple thousand dollars on the T shirt.

[Vegas Matt]

No.

[EJ]

Yeah, I was just like, this machine seems cool. We should switch. Which, by the way, it does not matter every time you push the button. It's an independent event. We could have potentially done worse. It's not likely had we stayed. But yeah, moving in hindsight was a bad choice.

[Podcast Host]

So what type of calculations do you guys do to know how much you can lose? Like, or is it just kind of like a. Ah, we could probably lose 100 grand on this. We could spare 50,000 here I think.

[EJ]

That you're maybe giving us more credit than we deserve thinking about it that way from the beginning. And again, wbg, who we'll talk to in a minute, he said, like, we can't afford this based on projections of what we will make. And then there was moments and credit to him for giving us the confidence to go forward and do it. And now we don't think about it because, I mean, you guys know how YouTube is and it's, it's good. And if we lost a million dollars a month, it would, we would go bankrupt. But we generally don't do anything too crazy except for maybe a couple times a month where we could lose upwards of $100,000.

[Graham]

How often do you balance the budget? Is it weekly, monthly, Like a quarter?

[EJ]

So like he mentioned earlier, we have that fund of money, money that we keep for gambling and then add to it as needed. And right now there's just a surplus because we've done so much winning. So we're kind of just in a very comfortable position where we, we don't even really need to think about it because this money has already been allotted to the gambling. And until that such time as that money is gone, we're, we're just making all the money from the content.

[Podcast Host]

How much do you have in the fund right now?

[Vegas Matt]

About $156,000, but I mean, I don't.

[EJ]

Pay that close more actually. Yeah, it's like 210.

[Vegas Matt]

Oh, really?

[EJ]

Yeah, 210 in that fund, the gambling fund, and it was up to over 300, but there it's taking some hits.

[Podcast Host]

So you just don't see that money as yours.

[EJ]

It's his and it's theirs. But they, it's just that money is what we use to make the videos and we'll add to it as needed, but hopefully we just keep getting lucky and win. But yeah, you, like you think about it, how do you view that money? Like it's already gone in your mind?

[Vegas Matt]

Like I said, I think when, when it's depleted and it gets to the point where every day we have to add to it, then it's really painful, you know. But once there's like a little bit in it and then it's like, ah, it goes up and down. And as long as there's still money in that fund, I mean, I'm thrilled. I haven't had to add money in a few months.

[Graham]

How much would you have to lose to quit the channel?

[Vegas Matt]

I mean, it'd be a lot. It's, it's as you guys know, you have a podcast and you get a lot of views and hopefully you get a lot on this. I'll encourage our audience to watch it. I mean, there's a lot of money to be made in this and that and then with sponsors and all that other stuff. I mean, you know, after doing this every day and as hard as they've worked on this, you know, we, we. I don't, I don't think we could lose.

[Podcast Host]

How are the finances, like, split up between the people? Like, is it like even keel?

[Vegas Matt]

The three of us are even partners?

[Graham]

Do you ever have any disagreements because you're all even that, like one person believes very strongly for one thing and the two, like outnumber the one.

[Vegas Matt]

We get along surprising. Well, I would say.

[EJ]

Yeah. I think that WBG and I generally agree on like anything content related most of the time. And he doesn't really feel too strongly about any of it. So he just goes and has a good time and then if he ever feels really strongly about something, we do it. So it, it never, there's never been an issue.

[Graham]

The only.

[Vegas Matt]

I'm in charge technically.

[EJ]

Sure. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

If you're gambling then off camera, is that with your money or was. Is that with like the, his own, his.

[EJ]

He calls it his walk. Walking around money.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[EJ]

That's just the money that he keeps on him. That's his own. It's separate from the, the budget that we use to produce the video.

[Podcast Host]

The three thousand dollar coffee was your own money.

[Vegas Matt]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I couldn't go, oh, guys, I was at coffee and I lost $3,000.

[EJ]

No, that wouldn't fly. No.

[Vegas Matt]

So it's like, so like this is my walking around money. Oh, can I hold it?

[Graham]

And it's heavy.

[Vegas Matt]

Let's see.

[Graham]

Yeah, that's.

[Vegas Matt]

And so, so the, so like this is, this is, this is because. And see, the stuff is a different color. That's like the, the, you know, like the ones and fives and tens and twenties, but it's mostly hundreds. And this money clip, by the way, was a gift. We got a money clip from one of our fans and it's the best money clip. And, and it's huge. And, and it can hold, it can hold 150 bills. So 15,000 is the capacity. And this is available at the vegasmat.com merch store where thousands of lucky people have this very money clip.

[Graham]

So how much do you have that in cash?

[Vegas Matt]

I'd say this is about 9,600 bucks. Bucks would be my guess.

[Podcast Host]

So you As a young guy with 33% of the money that Vegas Matt channel makes, I imagine you're probably doing pretty well. But he said you still drive like a pickup truck. Yeah.

[EJ]

Despite his best efforts, I thought.

[Vegas Matt]

I think.

[EJ]

And a few people have convinced or are talking me into buying a more expensive car, Ferrari or something along those lines, but I don't. I don't know.

[Podcast Host]

What are you doing with all the. Being young and, like, making a lot.

[EJ]

Just working. Putting the money with the rest for now. As soon as it's enough to retire for forever, then I'll really. Maybe.

[Graham]

So what are you doing in the meantime now? Are you investing it or is.

[EJ]

Yeah, investing it. Yeah. I have a financial advisor, and he invests a lot of. In the stock market. I. I buy gold and crypto and whatever, but for the most part, just letting my guy handle it and I focus on this.

[Podcast Host]

And what is that amount that you said is enough to retire forever?

[EJ]

I don't know.

[Podcast Host]

I.

[EJ]

You know, for a long time he said 10, and now he's saying 20. So as he's moving the goalpost shop, sounds like. I think I hear five, but I don't know.

[Vegas Matt]

I think you need 20.

[EJ]

Yeah. If you. I don't know. We'll see.

[Vegas Matt]

What do you guys know? Like, what do you think? A really comfortable retirement.

[Podcast Host]

How old are you?

[EJ]

31.

[Podcast Host]

Okay. So, I mean, I.

[Graham]

Depends on how much you like living.

[EJ]

Yeah.

[Graham]

You could do five, you could do two, 10, you could do 20 and maybe 30.

[EJ]

I mean, I asked Chat GPT. I. I put in all my different portfolios, and then I ask it how I'm doing and if I could retire. And it says, yeah, you probably could, but you'd have to adjust your lifestyle. And I'm like, I don't really want to adjust the lifestyle just yet.

[Vegas Matt]

So he wrote like, a chat GPT net worth convo that he could just prompt it and say, what's my net worth today? Like, you know, it's pretty cool.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I would say, like, at your age, a 3% withdrawal rate is probably reasonable. So if you have 10 million bucks, 300 grand a year.

[EJ]

Yeah, it's great.

[Vegas Matt]

I mean, you could. If you weren't like, gambling or doing anything. I mean, I. You could probably live on 300,000 a year.

[EJ]

Yeah, easy.

[Podcast Host]

Probably. You could certainly live.

[EJ]

He couldn't.

[Podcast Host]

You could. With your $3,000 coffees, you could certainly live off of $300,000. Very, very, very comfortable.

[Vegas Matt]

I could, yeah. Yeah.

[Graham]

What are your thoughts on bitcoin? Because you guys are Pretty early in on Bitcoin.

[Podcast Host]

I'm saying that.

[Vegas Matt]

And you're like, I don't know about that.

[EJ]

I haven't been able to give it too much brain power lately. It's just focus on this. I think we actually, when we talked to you last, I don't know if it was on the podcast or not, but you said you just dollar cost average and don't even think about it. You still do. Yeah. So you're doing really well. And I've been meaning to just dump all the altcoins and just hold bitcoin in in dollar cost average that way. Because I don'.

[Vegas Matt]

I want you to sell all the Ethereum at 4400.

[EJ]

And you were, you said 10%. You did not say all of it. You said sell 10%, but you changed it to sell 100%. You're like, you cost us hundreds of thousands. No.

[Podcast Host]

You guys invest together?

[EJ]

Well, yeah, I manage the crypto. Just from back then when it was like all so wild west. I was making sure we didn't get hacked or whatever. And so it's just still in that.

[Vegas Matt]

Those accounts I got hacked, they, when they, they did a, a, a SIM swap and all of a sudden my phone just went dead and it said, oh, you're sim. And I. And then they got into my, my email and everything else, but he had it set up with two factor and like a lot of really higher security and they weren't able to get anything. And then they, then they sent me one time, my wife was getting out of the shower and this sounds kind of weird, but I just like, I snapped a picture of her for some reason, you know, so she's like naked in this picture and I had it on my phone and.

[EJ]

Sorry, her face wasn't in it.

[Vegas Matt]

How do you know that? Actually, no, no, no, let me finish the story. So, so, so I had this picture of my wife on my phone, right? And then they got into my icloud and everything when they did the SIM swap. And then they, they texted me and they said, it's the hackers. And then they're like, yeah, and if you don't send us this, I'm gonna show your wife this picture. A text. I go, that's my wife.

[Graham]

Why did you tell them that? So why didn't you play along? Be like, no, you don't.

[Vegas Matt]

I said, it's my wife. And giving them more like yourself. Like, I just sold them to disco to pound sand. And, and they didn't get anything.

[Graham]

I wouldn't have said yeah, if I.

[Podcast Host]

Was the scammer, I would have been like, okay, well I'm going to release this picture of your wife.

[Graham]

I'd just be like, oh, don't, don't do that.

[Vegas Matt]

I mean she's a Pilates instructor. She's like really in good shape, I don't think. I wouldn't, I wouldn't be embarrassed about Ear mu.

[EJ]

Yeah, no, it's, it's funny, it's a good story. But yeah, they, so they would have been able to get into his coinbase account with the text. That's like a very common hack. But they didn't, thankfully. We dodged a few bullets in the crypto space over the years, so that was good FTX.

[Vegas Matt]

He calls me like 11 o' clock at night and he's like, yeah, we got to get all your FTX out. And then, then so he did a bunch of stuff and then I, and I tried, I go, I want to get some cash. And so I like, I did a ACH for $50,000 and then overnight when it took the ach so every, we got all the crypto out, but the 50,000 of cash that I tried to take out just disappeared. And then I never like they send these forms for the bankruptcy and I've never filled them out.

[Graham]

You never filled them out?

[Vegas Matt]

No.

[Graham]

They're paying back 118%. They have a recovery over 100%.

[Vegas Matt]

I know, but it's just so complicated and I don't remember.

[Graham]

They're paying back dollar for doll.

[Vegas Matt]

Give you half the money if you can get my ft.

[Graham]

I think it's too late.

[Vegas Matt]

Oh, is it? I have 50 grand that, that basically I did an ach the night that it went down and I never got the money and they owe me 50 grand. So if there's any FTX administrators listening. Your forms are too complicated for old people to figure out, figure out how to submit a claim. Seriously.

[Graham]

A little late, but I, you, you might be passing. I don't know.

[Vegas Matt]

That's the great thing about me.

[EJ]

Chalk it up too. We lost that day, you know what I mean?

[Vegas Matt]

That's the great thing about being a gambler. Cuz like anything that happens you can always say ah. Just pretend like I lost it, you know, or like if a Christmas gift is kind of expensive, like, well, if I, I could have afforded it, like money takes on a weird thing when you're a gambler.

[Podcast Host]

What's Christmas like with you guys? I imagine you're getting pretty crazy presents for each other.

[Vegas Matt]

I would imagine we're not getting Anything for each other is my guess. Because, like, there's like, we don't need anything. Like, I, I like to give stuff. Like my neighbor's doing an event at Allegiant Stadium, like the largest event for veterans in the history. And so, like, I would rather just give money, which I do a lot of, by the way, to the haters that, you know, because I like. There's this kid, Bluff, who's great, really good guy, great friend of ours, you know, and he's doing a lot of real public giving, you know, like buying tacos for everybody and stuff like that. It's like I, I do a lot of giving, like, privately. And they're like, you should be more like bluff and give money away. It's like, mind your own business. Why don't you go start a channel and you give your money away. But I mean, I, I don't DJ doesn't need another watch or anything like that. I'd rather give money during this.

[Graham]

It's cool.

[Vegas Matt]

We just.

[EJ]

My sister just had a kid, so this is going to be her second. Second Christmas. But that's going to be fun. Like when she gets older, buying gifts for her and being able to spoil the grandbaby is going to be a lot of fun.

[Podcast Host]

So I'm curious now for the business, what does the income look like? Where are you making the most amount of money? Where is the money coming from?

[EJ]

Yeah, a large portion of it is YouTube and then another large portion of it is sponsors. And then something that we really love, that is all of our passions is the merchandise. You can see him and I wearing it. Love that the fans support it, love that they enjoy it. We try to produce stuff that they'll enjoy wearing and that is a smaller portion of it. I would say maybe the breakdown would be 50, 50 with YouTube and sponsors and then some merchandise and stuff without getting into too much detail, but.

[Podcast Host]

And if you're trying to expand the revenue of the business, what do you think is the best way to maximize that? Well, if we're trying to grow the business.

[EJ]

Yeah, if trying to grow the business so we make better videos and grow the audience. And then in turn more deal flow will come in and more ad revenue from YouTube. So it all comes down to making the best videos you can and having the most fun, which he specializes in.

[Graham]

Do you worry about YouTube cracking down on these sorts of videos? I thought they just announced a new, like an age verification or you're not allowed to link or show certain things on screen.

[EJ]

Yes, we do worry about that, yes, the policies have changed quite a bit. Brick and mortar. They speak still. They don't age restrict it, but online. I think that there are companies in the online space that are maybe bad actors. So they're trying to navigate that and they can't distinguish between the online content that aren't bad actors and the ones that really are. So they're age restricting online gambling at the moment. But I think that they'll be able to flesh that out over time and figure out which online casinos are regulated and which ones will be tolerated and not tolerated. But for now, that. That's a bit of a. A tricky space. He's more worried about it than I am. I think YouTube enjoys the ad revenue from all different casinos and stuff a little bit.

[Graham]

Here's what I've seen though. Recently, it seems like YouTube just announced this new AI moderation tool that is going through flagging channels and then having them deleted overnight. And it seems like what they're doing is they're going now back years and then just flagging all these videos concurrently. And then all of a sudden when you get a few strikes these. The AI tool just removes the channel.

[EJ]

Sure.

[Graham]

You request a review and then it just says, oh, immediately afterwards. It's all AI now.

[EJ]

Yeah.

[Graham]

Oh, sorry. Your content, you know, doesn't go against our guidelines.

[EJ]

Right.

[Graham]

Deleted.

[EJ]

I think that that's why it's important to have a rep, like when you get to be our size. And the rep would be able to fix that if it was wrong. But yeah, it's, it's worrying. But that is the space we play in and so we have to.

[Graham]

I have seen though, even with a rep. Yeah. It seems like it could take weeks.

[EJ]

Right. And that would be a bummer. Yeah. So follow us on all the different social medias just in case anything ever happens, I guess.

[Vegas Matt]

I mean, I'm almost to a point where, I guess, you know, what good does worry do? And if it did happen, it'd be like, okay, well, you know, now I don't have to go film a video every single day. There's other, there's other revenue streams and things like that. Like, I like doing, I like doing events a lot. Like we do these, these fan events. You know, we'll bring people in for like a weekend to a casino. We do cruises. Cruises are an absolute blast. We have a deal with Virgin Cruises and we do what, three or four a year now?

[EJ]

Yeah, 20, 26. I think we have three scheduled already and maybe gonna add a fourth and a fifth. So.

[Vegas Matt]

So it's like, you know, so much fun. We meet the nicest people. I've got a bunch of like, friends that are like, I text every day that it came to my Christmas party party that I met on our first cruise. Like, really, really, really nice people. I was kind of concerned when we did our first one. Like, what if I'm trapped on this boat with a bunch of weirdos and close talkers and, you know, people with bad breath that like to tell secrets and I'm like, oh, my God, this is going to be awful. And then it turned out everyone was nice except for that one girl that was like stalking you, but. Yeah, but you had a stalker.

[EJ]

Not a stalker, but she was like an empty nester old woman. And she developed. Developed a very strong fascination with me and wouldn't leave me alone the whole cruise. At one point she like cornered me in the hallway and was saying some things and crying and I was like. Well, she. I don't know if we can say on the podcast, but I was just. I said, no, thank you. And I was like, not interested.

[Podcast Host]

She was crying, though.

[EJ]

Oh, yeah. She had some stuff going on for sure.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

So you weren't interested?

[EJ]

No, not, not at all.

[Vegas Matt]

But most that. Except for her, though, everyone was really nice. And, and it's just fun, you know, there's a lot of other things that you can do. And, and I think that like EJ says, you know, as long as we make great content and we build our audience, you know, the, the, the revenue follows.

[Podcast Host]

I could see you guys creating a slot machine and maybe it's like a limited edition slot machine where that you only make five of them. You put like one in a, you know, your top five favorite casinos or just one casino. You've got five Vegas Mat slot machines all right next to each other. And then you can spin it and it's like all of your faces.

[Graham]

Oh, like the face.

[Podcast Host]

That would be fantastic. It would be an attraction. I feel like lines could form. There's something there.

[EJ]

I'm happy. I'm happy you're saying it. There absolutely is. Yeah. We haven't had any slot manufacturers reach out or we have, but that the right situation hasn't presented itself and those big companies have to do so much legal and all this different stuff and they give us all these different excuses. But you're right, it would be good. We'd want thousands of them instead of five because we want to be able to get them in the most amount of places and have it do really.

[Vegas Matt]

It would be the best Game. I mean, there's a couple of online Vegas Mat slots. There's Vegas Matt Blackjack. There's Vegas Mat Cash Eruption. There's.

[Podcast Host]

Do you guys own them?

[Vegas Matt]

Licensing, I think.

[EJ]

No.

[Vegas Matt]

I mean, we get. I don't know how it works, but.

[EJ]

It'S an NIL thing.

[Vegas Matt]

But name, image, and likeness. That's what nil is. I learned about that. And, but, but they're. But, But I really would like to have the Vegas Mat slot. Our slot would be the best slot.

[Graham]

How would you make it the best game? What would you do? How would it look?

[Vegas Matt]

Well, you'd never be out of it. You know, we'd, we just, I don't know, just make it fun. I think it'd make it fun. And, you know, there are a lot of them. They're the same, you know, like, there's 82 variations of huff and Puff, and they're, you know, they, they do all these machines. I'm. So you take, you take, you know, some of the machines that we really, really like and take some of the good dynamics from those machines. I would want it to have a, a good return to player. I would want it to be too volatile where, you know, where, where the, the big wins are so big, but you usually lose. I'd rather have something bit more even keel.

[Podcast Host]

More frequent waiting.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah. More frequent bonuses, maybe not, not as massive. You know, we would just create a really, really good slot machine, but just with the funny stuff that we say and so forth, I think our audience would love it and interact with it. And I'd be willing to bet any slot manufacturer that's watching this podcast that it would be the highest performing slot that they would ever put into the casinos.

[Graham]

It would be interesting. If they lose on one, it just says Sando.

[EJ]

Yeah, exactly.

[Graham]

Lose again, Sando, and then you lose another one and you're like, oh, just one. On. Could you egg people on?

[Vegas Matt]

Oh, yeah. Like, well, like, on, like, Vegas Matt Blackjack, you know, like, like, I'll be like, oh, that was brutal. Or, you know, oh, what a Sando. Or, or like I said something I thought was funny. Like, like, I got, like, a jack of diamonds and a king of clubs, and I said, oh, jack, king off suit. That's EJ's favorite hand, you know, and, like, tried to make it funny and, yeah, it's a great idea. And, and I'm, I'm shocked that it hasn't happened yet, but I, I, I believe it will.

[Podcast Host]

So any other things left to, to expand on the business? I'm Curious, like, is it literally just making more high quality videos, getting higher paying sponsors and that's it or is there any other like stuff in the woodworks? I did hear you guys mention, I don't know if I can say this.

[EJ]

A movie that would be fun. He has had the movie idea for a long time of just not necessarily about us, but about a lot of the stuff that we know about and see and there you can speak more about it. You talk about your script.

[Vegas Matt]

I mean it would be like Rain man meets the MIT card counting team meets casino. I mean WBG doesn't like when I use that analogy, but it's like people think that, I mean, I think we could make a movie that's that big about the slot world, about the world of advantage, slot play, all that kind of stuff that people have no idea about. And like I have like the opening scene, you know, the guys walking through the casino, kind of like the Terminator, just like looking at all these things that no one else is noticing. There's this little old lady pushing the button, these people over here hooting and hollering. And then it's like, oh wait, someone you know, that's a, there's a 72 on that machine right there. Boom. You know, and then just the people. Like the Rain man dynamic is interesting because you know how like autism rates have gone up just like crazy like since 1992, I believe. And I don't know what, where, what it is caused by and whatnot. It's a whole nother thing. I'll leave that to RFK or whoever's fixing it it now. But there, there's a lot of people on the spectrum that are professional gamblers because that, that's, that's like that the Rain man, you know, made that, he was pretty extreme example of it. But there are a lot of people that are like not maybe that too far on the spectrum, but they're on the spectrum like super math geniuses and so forth. And then there's tales that I'm aware of of people not in the too distant past of people getting taken in back rooms, beaten up like casinos do not, not like when you beat them. There's danger and intrigue and so much interesting stuff that happens in the world of gambling and professional gambling. And, and I just thought the MIT card counting, the Kevin Spacey one was so well done that movie 21. And I think the slot underworld is even more interesting. So way more coming soon to a theater near you. And then there's. We did a. They Did a reality show, like a docu series for like six months. They had us miked up everywhere. Like the restroom was weird sometimes and I forget that I had a mic on and. And I mean, they literally were like 24 7. We were miked up and they, and they, they did all this behind the scenes concert. They do a docu series. We were approached about us doing a sitcom like where they had actors play us and, you know, we never ended up doing that deal. But yeah, all kinds of crazy stuff comes up. I personally want to do a regular Vegas mat show, like a variety show like here in Vegas where people come and, you know, the Vegas mat show. EJ doesn't. Isn't as crazy about that idea as I am, but I really believe that we could do a great show and make it fun and entertaining and fill theaters. And I think that we would fill theaters with people, you know, like, I don't know, Carrie Underwood or Janet Jackson or whoever fills a theater. You know, those people come, they go to the theater, they go to the show and, and you know, they may put a dollar into slot machine, you know, but everyone who comes to my show, probably on the way out, stop at the high limit room and gamble $50,000 and it would probably be the most profitable show in the history of shows for Las Vegas if we were to do that. First one's in April.

[Podcast Host]

I'm going to list off a bunch of casino games and you guys are going to rate it 1 out of 10.

[EJ]

Oh, fun.

[Vegas Matt]

Okay, 1 out of 10 or 1 2. 10. I know what you meant.

[Podcast Host]

1 1. Not 1 2. 10. 1 out of 10 we're gonna like.

[EJ]

Which one's 110 is.

[WBG]

Are we giving each one a rating or are we ranking them from 1 to 10?

[Podcast Host]

Just 1 to 10. You're not. You're not ranking them 1 to 10.

[EJ]

You're just rating them.

[Vegas Matt]

So if we really like it, it's maybe a nine or an eight or seven. Yeah, 67.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, six.

[WBG]

Jeez.

[Vegas Matt]

I still don't understand that.

[Podcast Host]

I. I don't think that there is anything to understand. Unfortunately. It's just a 67.

[Vegas Matt]

How close to the mic should he be?

[Graham]

Oh, it's great.

[Vegas Matt]

Oh, that's good. Okay.

[Podcast Host]

All right. Dragon link.

[WBG]

Oh, probably an eight.

[Vegas Matt]

I mean, it's the most popular game in. In the casino. I think there are better games. I like it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Vegas Matt]

7.5.

[EJ]

I think it's getting old. I'm going to go six.

[Podcast Host]

Buffalo.

[WBG]

Buffalo. In general, the. The entire f. Buffalo Gold, you know, six and a Half. It's good game. Solid. Good math.

[Vegas Matt]

Buffalo Gold collection. Or is there. I mean, there's so many Buffalo games.

[Podcast Host]

All right, well, let's just say Buffalo.

[WBG]

Broadly as a franchise, probably eight. I. Buffalo Link brings the average way up.

[EJ]

Yeah.

[WBG]

But there's some that are fours and fives.

[Vegas Matt]

Buffalo Link is the best game, is a 10. And Buffalo, like Buffalo Gold collection is, you know, a six or a seven. Buffalo. You know, there's Buffalo Stampede. There's all these different Buffalo games. So it's really difficult to say because there are. Are so many. But our favorite game is in the Buffalo family.

[EJ]

There are games one through 10 on Buffalo. Buffalo links 10, though.

[Podcast Host]

Firelink six.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah. I'm not a huge fan of the Firelink. I don't. I would say. Yeah. Six, four.

[Graham]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Bakara.

[WBG]

Bakara. Bakara is a solid eight and a half.

[Vegas Matt]

I mean, to me it's a. It's a 10. It's a great up to games. It's the best.

[EJ]

I mean, it's so fun, but it can be such a disaster. I'm gonna go nine.

[Podcast Host]

Firecracker. Firecracker gets me every single time.

[Vegas Matt]

What's fire. What's Firecracker?

[WBG]

You must mean something like.

[Vegas Matt]

The one with the Little Spark game. Yeah, that's. It's Bowu Zaofu.

[EJ]

That is a five. That game is just like the pinnacle of what we call perceived progression. So it, like, looks. Looks like it's gonna hit when really it's just a display of how long it's gonna hit.

[Vegas Matt]

So it's how long it's been since it's hit.

[EJ]

How long it's been since it hit. Yeah, exactly. So it doesn't mean anything. But it does get a lot of people who aren't familiar. They're like, look at all the lights. That game is. I do not like that game. I'm gonna go four.

[Graham]

Yeah.

[WBG]

And he says perceived progression, but it's actually perceived persistence.

[Podcast Host]

But what is the difference?

[WBG]

Persistence is a persistent state. So slot machine, where, as you play it, the. The elements that you see on the screen are persistent. They stay until they're hit. And they use these elements to fool you into thinking that it's. It's.

[Graham]

Oh.

[Podcast Host]

That it's progression.

[Vegas Matt]

So like the one that. Let's say that I said that lady left a 74, that it must hit by 75. So, you know, if you walk up to the machine, it's at 52, 53, 54. That's a real persistent feature because at 75, it's going to Hit and you. You're going to get a bonus. But the firecrackers, it's like, oh, they're lit up a little bit. They're lit up all the way. It's perceived that there's some kind of a persistent feature, but it's not real. That's still completely random every time you hit the button. It's perceived persistence, but for some reason we call it perceived progression.

[EJ]

I think progression just makes more sense to people who don't follow gambling.

[WBG]

Yeah, it just, I mean, progression just applies that there's some type of progressive.

[EJ]

Towards getting bigger, progressing towards something.

[Vegas Matt]

I think they should actually change it to perceived progression.

[WBG]

Yeah, it's funny.

[Vegas Matt]

Other.

[WBG]

I've heard other people call it perceived progression.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah, we made a better name.

[Podcast Host]

What about Huff and Puff?

[Vegas Matt]

I mean, we've made so many Huff and Puff videos and I'm on record that I just despise the game now. So I'm gonna call Huff and Puff a four.

[EJ]

Yeah.

[WBG]

You know, the whole franchise is probably someplace between three and maybe eight. Like Huff and even more Puff. Is it. It's a strong game, but it's, it's. I don't know, maybe seven, Maybe three to seven. It's hard.

[EJ]

Yeah. The, the Huff and Puff brand is spectacular. Like, they crushed. It rivals the Buffalo brand and the Dragon Link brand. So maybe their brand is a nine, but the games and the math behind the games are a five and a half at best. They're fun too. Six and a half.

[Vegas Matt]

Maybe he was expecting like a number for an answer.

[EJ]

Sorry, but I don't know. People who know slots will enjoy the answers, I think.

[Podcast Host]

What about Regal Riches?

[WBG]

Regal Riches is a solid nine. It's a great game. It's, it's, it's. There's an experience that you get to play. I mean, I guess they could make it a little fancier and maybe a little bit better music or better graphics. But I mean, for, for what it is, it's. It's a great game. It's, you know, a starting point, there's an ending point. It's fun, it has decent payouts, and it's just been so good to us.

[Vegas Matt]

It, it put us on the map. We played an $1125 regal riches and we were chasing a green, I think it was. And, and we were down. Was it 300,000? Yeah, it doesn't seem like as much now. We were down like 300,000 and we were just. I was having a come apart, you know, because it was just taking forever and you just can't quit until you hit it. But yeah, we love that game. I wish more places had it. And I'd say it's a. Yeah, definitely a nine out of ten.

[EJ]

Yeah, it's up there. It's at fewer places now, which is unfortunate, but. But yeah, eight and a half, something like that.

[Podcast Host]

What about Ultimate X?

[WBG]

Oh, 10. It's probably 10. It's. It's probably the best video poker variant that's ever existed.

[Vegas Matt]

He taught me. WBG taught me that game and I just absolutely love it. And it's. I've had some of my biggest wins ever on that game. And it's just so fun. I mean, you're never out of it in Ultimate X.

[EJ]

You know, there are so many things that are good about it too, once you understand it. The variants, they have figured out really what you can win a ton of and you can get wrecked. But it's great. The household is really, really low, so you can play a lot. It. It's a great, great game. 10 for sure.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

What about Pai Gow?

[WBG]

Paigal is a game that's a series of pushes punctuated by an occasional loss. So it's a great drinking game. It. You can play for a long time. It's slow. It's a good, relaxing game. It's kind of fun. You know, as far as table games go, it's probably seven and a half.

[Vegas Matt]

I mean, I haven't played it so long. I mean, I could barely even tell you. I know there's houseway, pair, pair behind. It's a fun game. Yeah. As far as table games go, I mean, I'd probably. I'd probably play that. I'd like that better than Three Card Poker or Ultimate Texas hold'. Em. And those were all kind of in that category that I'd throw into like the 7 range.

[EJ]

I don't know. I would say lower because we never play it. If we liked it a lot, we would play it. So I would say maybe a five and a half.

[WBG]

Yeah. There's something about Paigo that a lot of people don't know is oftentimes most casinos, you can bank the game every other hand, like where you get to be the house. So I like that element of it. Like in la, so you can go and actually just be the house, but it's kind of hard because they have corporations that run those games. But even in casinos in Las Vegas, you. Every other hand, the. The players can bank the game.

[Vegas Matt]

Really?

[WBG]

Yeah.

[Vegas Matt]

How do you do that?

[WBG]

I have. Yeah.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah. Yes, we should do that. We should make a video about that. Where's that at?

[WBG]

I don't know if, like, where we normally play allows you to do it, but, I mean, I've done it at many casinos on the Strip.

[Podcast Host]

I like Pai Gow. It's really fun. But, yeah, it's a lot of pushes.

[Vegas Matt]

Like my friend Alan used to say, it's a great, you know, great game. He liked it because you play a lot, you don't lose a lot. You get free drinks, and you get rated. And so he would get. He would just play hours and hours and hours. Pai Gow, not lose very much money and get good drinks and comps.

[Podcast Host]

Craps.

[WBG]

I mean, craps is a perennial favorite. It's. I'd say it's probably an eight, eight or nine, eight and a half, something like that. It's a fun. It's a fun game. It's weird because. Because craps is the kind of game where I can go bet 5,000. I mean, it's probably not this way anymore, but I remember when I was first starting to gamble, I could bet 5,000 on a hand of blackjack, no problem. Not. Not feel anything. But you put $100 on a craps table, just. The energy just is so amped up.

[Vegas Matt]

Craps is bluff's game, you know, I mean, he's made that famous. I. I personally despise craps. Like, I know that if you're, you know, playing perfect strategy. I guess I should play the don't, because for me, what happens is I. I put. I hit a point, and then I do a comeb, and then I place max odds, and I get a few other points, and then I roll a seven, and I lose it all every single time. Like, I do not like craps at all. I give it a 2, 5.

[EJ]

Maybe it's a little slow for me, and. And it's hard to film, and it's hard to film, and you lose a lot. And it's not my favorite.

[WBG]

Blackjack, 10.2. It's a 20 out of 10. It's. It's the best game.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah, he loves it. That's. I mean, some of our only wins are when we let him drive. And blackjack frustrates the hell out of me. Like I said earlier, like, it just seems like I always bust and they always make a hand. And, you know, it's good sometimes because, you know, you bet one hand and you get a blackjack or a double down, you win a lot. That's great. But if we play it for a while, almost always I end up starting with a bunch of chips and ending with no chips. But it's, it's fun and it's easy and it's everywhere, you know, so it's, it's, you know, it's probably like a 7.

[EJ]

I would say 7 as well.

[Podcast Host]

You guys have very high ratings for every single one of them. Like, I don't think I saw really a single thing under five. Except from you. You had a couple things that are under five. What would you say is the worst game of all time?

[EJ]

A lot of people say three card poker is not that fun. There's not that much variance and you lose a lot.

[WBG]

Yeah, I would. If you're talking about table games, I would say something like. Like Let It Ride. Like, that was a very innovative game when it first came out. Oh, you have some history of Let It Ride, I see.

[Podcast Host]

I sat down at a Let It Ride t my friend Gavin one night, and we did not, in fact, Let It Ride.

[WBG]

Yeah, no, I mean, it's okay. I know there are people, like, they still have it at Pepperville, and I know there are people who go there just to play it. And it's okay. When it first came out, it was a fun game because it was new. It was one of the new carnival games. But there's just like, the other games are just. Just so much faster and more fun.

[Vegas Matt]

And what about Casino War? Yeah, I mean, I got wrecked on that one time coming out of the Bellagio. I think I had one too many drinks and I still sat down and I just lost so much money so fast at that game. I don't know what. Which. Is it a bad game for the player? Like, which one of those carnival games has the worst odds, you think, for the player?

[WBG]

I mean, probably like. Well, any of those side bet games, like Let It Ride. And those games, if you play good strategy, it's not too bad. But it's mostly the side bets. Like, side bets on Bacharach can be a 10, 12%, a house edge.

[Vegas Matt]

Side bets are generally sucker bets. Right. We never bet the side bets. I mean, I do, but you don't. Because they're sucker bets.

[WBG]

I mean, unless there's a reason to.

[Podcast Host]

What would you say are the main things that people get wrong when they go gambling? Like, if you're going to put out a message to the casual viewer, I don't endorse gambling, by the way, at all. But if you are going to do it, what tips or tricks should they have that'll cover like, any 80% of, hopefully what they would have lost.

[WBG]

I mean, try to understand the strategy, the games you're playing. Like with blackjack, a Bakarat's easy. You just pick a side, you pick, what do you say? What do you say? Red or blue? And, and you don't really have to have. There's no decisions. But if you're going to play craps or something like that, bet the odds because that lowers your, your, the overall edge. If you are going to play slots, make sure that you, you, you're going to be better off if you play a $5 $51 dollars versus 500 pennies. Because there's a chance that a dollar denomination has a higher return to player than a penny version of the same game. But just only gamble recreationally. Don't. If you, if it's, if it's money you need, don't gamble it.

[Vegas Matt]

The biggest mistake. I think that, okay, what comes to mind to the biggest mistake is so many things that I did wrong that you taught me one. Like I, I very rarely use my players card. You know, I didn't really see the value or the value of it enough and I didn't, I didn't swipe my players card at the kiosk. I didn't take advantage of promotions that you leave a lot of money on the table if you don't use your players card and all the promo properly. People who play video poker and do the wrong holds, you know, like they, they, they hold something that they think is right, you know, they'll hold a, you know, they hold an ace king over a of piece pair of sixes, you know, or something on, depending on the game there's different holds. But like I don't like to play juices wild because the holds are really, really complicated and I, and every mistake you make in the holds costs you a lot. Like if you play 10 play ultimate X bonus poker with a good pay table and you play perfectly, which is almost impossible to do. It's like 99.4% return to player. But most people play so bad that they're probably getting like 94% and then also blackjack. The biggest mistake I see is people like kind of playing by instinct rather than the book, you know, like, oh, I don't know, I don't want to hit that because you know, I think I'm gonna bust when you know, you should hit, hit it mathematically because you're.

[Podcast Host]

So on the pulse with everything gambling. I'm curious the level of information that you have access to. What have been the biggest Exploits that you've come across the biggest, like treasure chests because you knew this little bit of information that ended up taking you really far.

[WBG]

I mean me personally, like I understood things like must hit by jackpot.

[Podcast Host]

So whenever you're walking through a casino, you're keeping your eyes open for something like that.

[WBG]

I mean it's like now it's like a lot of that stuff, that ship has sailed. Just because the information is so ubiquitous that so many people know about it, it's hard to find those kind of things anymore. Turns out to be worth very, very little. But you know, 10, 15 years ago, if people, if, if it wasn't widespread and you were the only person in a region that knew that there was a must hit by $10,000 jackpot, you could find a more profitable situation. But it's a lot of that stuff is like, like everything in life. Eventually the market figures it out and those advantages don't exist anymore. But just like, like if you're gonna play blackjack, just play no get a basic strategy card or look it up on the Internet so you know what you're doing. If you're gonna play three card poker, make sure you understand that to that.

[Podcast Host]

But for you, when have you ever used this finely tuned knowledge.

[Vegas Matt]

I got one for you that I think you're comfortable telling. And it's a phenomenal story. The, the one that when we were at the, with our friend Jonathan and, and, and, and you're like, oh, I was there that night. Oh, I mean that. Because that one's long since gone. No one's ever going to do it again.

[WBG]

Well, there was just like, like you're talking about take advantage of promotions like.

[Vegas Matt]

That, that promo that where they got killed.

[WBG]

Yeah. Like, I mean sometimes there'll be, there'll be promotions where the casino will just be very generous. Like you can earn X amount of points, but the value of what you're getting for those points is worth more than the cost, the expected cost. Doesn't mean you're not going to lose today. But if you were able to do it thousands and thousands of times, you'll come out ahead. What's that look for?

[Vegas Matt]

Just because you're doing that thing that you do, like he's the king of not telling anyone anything. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's his. This is good. Gambler runs so deep even when he. What are you talking about, cuz? Tell about the freaking thing where you know you got paid for every W2 and how you beat how how they, I'm not you, but how, how it. They got beat really bad.

[WBG]

There's been casinos where they have tax day promotions where they'll give you 50, let's say 15% of a jackpot on, on April 15th, right. They'll run a promotion. So if you can, if you can find a way to create a jackpot that only costs you 5%, you're going to have an edge. So things like that have.

[Podcast Host]

So you've done that?

[WBG]

Oh, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

And so what did you win?

[WBG]

Money.

[Podcast Host]

And how, how much money did you win? How much did you risk?

[WBG]

A lot.

[EJ]

A lot?

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah, a lot, a lot. Enough that the CEO remembered it about 10 years later and they laughed about it because they got, because they, they did a promo and they didn't think it all the way through. And so these smart people, they see that and they're like, well, you're going to give me, you know, you're going to me X dollars for every $1,200 jackpot I get. Okay, I'm going to go play $600 a hand on, on video blackjack. And every single hand that I win, I'm going get a tax form, I'm going to win 100 bucks, and in an hour I'm going to hit 100 jackpots.

[WBG]

And it's supposed to cost you $6. You know, your, your negative expectation is maybe $6, but every other hand you win 100. So it's not, not too hard to make a lot of money that.

[Podcast Host]

Have you ever gotten an offer from a casino? Like, hey, can you consult us and advise us to make sure we don't make an error like that again?

[WBG]

I mean, yes, informally, never professionally, but I, there, there have been casinos that have reached out and asked questions like, could you take a look at this promotion, see if there's anything that doesn't make sense about it? And I've done that.

[Vegas Matt]

It's so cool. This guy's going to be the star of the movie.

[WBG]

No, definitely not.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah, his character for sure.

[WBG]

No.

[EJ]

There are a lot.

[WBG]

Yeah, it's fun.

[EJ]

Can't wait for the movie to come out.

[Vegas Matt]

He's also super humble. Gets embarrassed when you say nice things about him, but it's definitely the, I mean, you say EJ's the brains. WBG. I mean, EJ's definitely done in a. Incredible job there. I always get back. And, and he's works really, really hard. But these two together, I mean, you got super brain and a young brain, and he's learned a lot from him. And they've.

[EJ]

Well, I mean, and you're very talented in front of the. You're the. He's the best in front of the camera.

[WBG]

Yeah. I like to think about you, like social media or YouTube. What, what? Vegas Mat is kind of like a recipe. And if you're baking a cake, for instance, like, you need all the ingredients. Ingredients, you need the salt, the sugar, the flour. And even though the flour may be 90% of it, Vegas Mat, you still need. You still need the other ingredients to make the product.

[Vegas Matt]

So are you the salt or the sugar?

[WBG]

Yes.

[EJ]

Certainly not the dairy.

[WBG]

But I'm saying is, like, you need all the ingredients, and even though you may not be 90% of the ingredients, the whole product won't exist without all the elements. And they're all equally important because you can't do it without each other. And I think we just work. Work very well together.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. When I, When I mentioned to people, oh, yeah, we're filming an episode of like, Vegas Matt soon, they're like, oh, are you bringing on WBG and like, ej? I'm like, yeah, yeah, like, they're going to hopefully come on the. The show and spread some wisdom, too. Okay, last question. Have you ever found a true edge? Like they say in roulette, when you spin it, maybe if the table's a little crooked, it could be landing on something more often or something to that degree.

[WBG]

Do you want me to talk about the roulette one or.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah, here's the thing. You should do a podcast podcast someday when. I don't know when, like, and just have him tell you everything he knows. And it would probably be the most viewed podcast in gambling history. So tell us a roulette story. He's got one on everything.

[WBG]

I know, I know. I've been involved with. With. I mean, yes, you can. There's not a. The thing is, is there's not a game in the casino that you can't beat. It doesn't matter what the game is under the right circumstances. I mean, that doesn't mean that that exists at every. Like, you can't just walk up to. To every single table and there's an edge, but there's. Every single game, there's a circumstance where it could. Where the tables could be turned.

[Vegas Matt]

How so then on, like, were you listening earlier with asking about the Bachra thing and the guy that claims he has an edge on Bachra and he'll give it away for $20 million. So, like, how could you beat Bachara?

[WBG]

Well, first of all, that's not true. That's just, he's just saying that he, that if I, it wouldn't be worth.

[EJ]

20 million because if you could beat it, you get kicked out before you could win 20 million. So no one would buy it.

[WBG]

And I think, I think people who claim to have systems are just, they're just charlatans. It's just like, it's like, it's like people who, who claim that they can beat sports, for instance, it's very, very difficult because the mark. There's so much money and so many smart people betting into those markets that you're going to have an equilibrium price. And the people who say that, oh, I have an edge, they're just selling picks to bull.

[Vegas Matt]

So give us a little, little nugget.

[WBG]

Okay.

[Vegas Matt]

Bachra, you said there is a circumstance or that. Can you give us an example of when a Bach rock game could have been beat?

[WBG]

I mean they're like there are side bets that, that are countable like blackjack, that you can, that you can, that you could beat a side bet.

[Vegas Matt]

So like you would count a 12 deck shoe down and then you know that like all the nines are gone and then, and then this makes the big tiger more likely or something like that.

[WBG]

Like one of the side bets could, like when there's no more face cards, for instance, something could, there could be an advantage online of the, like a tie or if. I'm not saying that that's the actual circumstance, but it's things. Circumstances.

[EJ]

It's not huge though.

[Vegas Matt]

God forbid you give a specific.

[WBG]

No, because I, I mean, I don't know it by rote or also is.

[Vegas Matt]

It something like when some dealers do something wrong and when the card comes out of a shoe, if you're sitting.

[EJ]

At a certain place, you could see the whole carding.

[Vegas Matt]

You could see the card or something.

[WBG]

Not on Bakara, but I mean. Well, I guess if you could like if you knew the first card on Bakara you could, you could gain an edge. Like if you knew it was a nine and it was going to the player, of course you would bet player.

[Vegas Matt]

So okay, so then you said roulette, you, your eyes lit up a little bit and is there, can you think of an example when roulette was beatable or like that you beat roulette.

[WBG]

I, I know people. Yeah. Like I know people who have found situations where things replicated often enough. Like you were saying, like the table was tilted like they could, they, they knew that it was going to go around three times and if it goes around three times it's going to land in a quadrant. So they could just bet the quadrant.

[Podcast Host]

And so they. They literally wait to see how fast the spin is to that.

[WBG]

Yeah, exactly. Interesting, because it's a. It's a. It's a physical element. It's a physical thing. So if you roll a bowling ball down the alley the exact same way every time, you're going to knock over the same number of pins. I mean, on average, I want to.

[Vegas Matt]

Like, I want to ask him more questions. Very rarely does he answer.

[EJ]

I think also all of that stuff is so hard and the opportunities are so rare, and it's really not what we do. We're just aware of it, and it's a fun thing to talk about. I mean, look at how interesting than you guys have been. And I find it fascinating.

[Vegas Matt]

It's not what we do at all.

[EJ]

Like, we play, we go gamble.

[Vegas Matt]

No casino cares if we come in and play Huff and Puff and Dragon Link. They're. They're like, welcome to the casino.

[WBG]

Yeah. The thing is, we know about it. We don't do it. We don't actively participate in it. But I think this is how kind of, maybe. Kind of how all this might have happened is because when I met Matt, like, he knew that I had some knowledge about these things, and he was fascinated by it. So we just had an instant friendship, and we. We would talk about it and just talk about stories and things that maybe we had done before, and he wanted to go gambling and things like that. So I think it cemented our. Our. Our friendship and our relationship, and that's why we hung out together and why we were gambling together and why I.

[Vegas Matt]

Used to beg him to let me go with him, you know, and. And he had, like, you know, he's wbg. And like, I remember saying to him, like, you're like, how can I get to be your sidekick? Because he. He'd always seem, you know, he's a nice guy and he's fun to hang out with and he. And he's a people person. Talking about you like, here, I know you love that. And. And so he would have, you know, these various people that would go with him all the time. And, like, I always wanted to go more because it was just so fun. Because, I mean, not that he won every time, but he certainly didn't lose as much as most people that I had met. And I just learned so much about, like, a game like Harley Davidson that they don't have anymore. Like, that one was something, if I remember, we used to play that A lot.

[WBG]

I mean it was, that was just one with an actual progression, right? Yeah, it was a. It was. Well, it was the. You would play and the. They were. There were free game meters and the longer you played the they, the higher they would get and they weren't guaranteed to hit. But there was a point where the. What it would expect you to. What you would expect to pay to hit one of the progressives, like let's say the minor jackpot was you. You like you knew it was within a certain range. So if there were 50, 50 games and you. It would, it would cost you X amount of dollars to hit it, but you knew that the 50 games would pay more than that. You would play it until you hit it. Now it doesn't mean you were guaranteed to win that day, but if you did that over and over and over, you were just going to print money.

[Vegas Matt]

Do you remember the first machine that you ever showed me? First slot machine for the first slot machine that you know that there was something that I should look for? Plants versus Plants versus Zombies. Yeah, there was like a, There was a Plants versus Zombies and there was a brain meter and I can't remember.

[EJ]

I remember that game.

[Vegas Matt]

But if the brain meter was like over a certain amount, like we'd be walking through the casino and, and we would like walk to like 20 casinos in a day and good, good cardio. And then, then we'd see a Plants versus Zombies and we like oh, with a brain meter. And I was like so proud of myself the first time I found something good and we'd come up, yeah, boom, boom. And then when they don't have that game anymore though.

[WBG]

No, it's, it's. I mean it probably exists someplace but like everything those games come, they go away.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah. If the games are beatable, they done it.

[WBG]

It's not just that they're beatable. I just think they have, have a life cycle. That's like one of the things we talked about Dragon, like one of the reasons I gave it a high ranking is because it's been around since like 2014 and it's still very, very popular. So. Yeah, I mean you have to respect the fact that a game could be around for 11 years and still be one of the biggest games to drive coin in.

[Podcast Host]

Have you made most of your money that you've made in your life from gambling?

[WBG]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

From exploits?

[WBG]

No, just. I mean I was a professional poker player for a while, so.

[Podcast Host]

It's from professional poker.

[WBG]

Yeah. And so I was, I was a professional poker player and I Was involved in poker right before. What's so funny?

[Vegas Matt]

I was just looking over at him.

[Podcast Host]

And he's just smiling like, he's like, he knows something.

[Vegas Matt]

It's like senator Row. Well, you know, so before the poker.

[WBG]

Boom, like, I was fortunate. Like, just coincidentally, I, I, I picked up poker before the poker boom. So when the poker boom happened, I was in a fortuitous position and I was able to take advantage of it. I got involved in affiliate marketing with, with poker.

[Vegas Matt]

When are you going to write a book wbg? I would love to read the that book. When you recommend retire when you reach the box. You'd get mad at me for everything I said. Talk about that.

[WBG]

Yeah. So I played poker. I was, I played a lot of tournament poker back before people, before everybody learned how to play on the Internet.

[Vegas Matt]

So it's just fun to watch him, like, just even just betting sports, you know, because, like, I'll be like, I like the blue team, you know, or whatever. Like, oh, Ohio, you know, and then, and then he just won't casually, like, make a bet, you know, even if, like we're at a game, you know, and he's like, well, let me take a look, you know, and he looks at like 17 books and sees what's going on. And it's just like a level of intelligence and patience that I couldn't do if someone paid me all the money in the world, you know. But then he'll go and he'll bet on the Eagles anyway.

[WBG]

I think it's just.

[EJ]

Yeah. Disaster.

[WBG]

Go Birds. I think it's just a matter of just kind of looking at life in terms of ev. Right. If is okay, sure. The, the gas across the street might be $0.01 less. So I'm going to get 10 gallons. Is it worth $0.10 to cross the street? Probably not. Is it worth it to make a phone call to save $150 on, on your insurance? Probably. Right. Takes you 10 minutes. Right. It's hard to find opportunities that are worth 900 an hour. So you just try and think in terms of ev and apply it to everything else.

[Vegas Matt]

There's so much. Let me tell you. It's fair. WBG is a wealth of information. If you can get it out of him. He knows, he knows everything about gambling. I think, I think I'd to like, like to create like a gambler's trivia thing sometime and have all these people that think they know and then like, like jeopardy. And then that would be good. And I would back WBG to be the guy that ends up, you know, on the show for like a hundred days straight.

[WBG]

I, I wouldn't win. But I tell you what, I've been because, because of my gambling history, career, whatever you want to call it, I've been, been fortunate to meet some of the most brilliant minds in gambling. So I've, I've tried to learn from them.

[Podcast Host]

I have a couple trivia questions, but then we have to wrap.

[Vegas Matt]

Okay, got it.

[Podcast Host]

Okay. Because I just.

[Vegas Matt]

Oh, it's not a 10 hour podcast.

[Podcast Host]

I just, I just wanted to see because that, that was an interesting prompt. What specific rule change in US blackjack caused the house edge to increase by.04% without changing payouts or debt count.

[EJ]

Like you changing payouts, meaning that they're not going to give you like 49 cents.

[WBG]

I guess adding more decks would be, would, would be the only way you could do it without changing.

[Vegas Matt]

Well, or like not hitting on soft 17 or.

[WBG]

That's a rule. That's a rule change.

[EJ]

What specific rule change without changing payouts. Meaning they didn't.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah, they changed the rule, but they didn't change the payout. It was so, it sounds like a. What was the rule that dramatically increased the casino edge?

[WBG]

Was a rule.

[Vegas Matt]

It was a rule change that didn't change the payouts. Like not like three to two versus.

[WBG]

Okay, yeah. So yeah, it could be hitting on soft 17.

[Podcast Host]

That's right.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah.

[EJ]

Yeah, I knew that.

[Vegas Matt]

Who got that? Me. All right, what's.

[Podcast Host]

All right, one more. What is the only common casino game where the house edge can be mathematical automatically reversed in favor of the player without card counting or whole carding?

[Vegas Matt]

Because you said slots. But, oh no, the only one I.

[EJ]

Can think of is Ultimate Texas hold them. If everybody sees, if every player sees the hand but.

[WBG]

Well, he's. That's whole carding.

[EJ]

Is that what that is?

[Vegas Matt]

Well, it's not whole carding.

[EJ]

Hole carding is when you see that the dealer makes a mistake and you see their card.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah, right.

[EJ]

Yeah, I know you know what it is, but not everybody does.

[WBG]

I mean, slots, that's the thing with a game that has a variable state slot machine. The odds can change. It can go from the house edge to a player edge.

[Podcast Host]

It's craps. Pass line and don't pass line. The blended edge approaches zero. It says no memory, no counting, no exploit required.

[WBG]

Well, I guess what you're saying is if you, if you bet, if you bet max odds, but it doesn't go.

[Vegas Matt]

It doesn't go into the player's favor. Like, like your, your m. Your odds are Even money. So, so there's no edge. It's 50, 50, but you still have to have a pass line or a don't pass line bet where have an edge of x percent.

[WBG]

Yeah. So your element, your element of risk on, on craps might go from 1 point, 1.0, whatever 1.3 to 0.3 or something like that, depending on how.

[Vegas Matt]

But he said it goes actually into the player's favor. I just don't know how you could create that situation.

[WBG]

I guess the only thing I, what he must be saying is that if you have, if you are betting on a number, like if you're betting on the don't pass with odds. Once the point is established, once it's.

[Vegas Matt]

Established, then, then you've got an edge because the 7 is the most likely number to come out.

[WBG]

Like, that's the. That, that, that's probably the scenario that he's describing. Although the overall edge on the game is still, it's still in the house's favor.

[Podcast Host]

Which Las Vegas casino slot machine malfunctioned in the 1990s. It led to a court case that changed how casinos handle obvious errors versus binding wins.

[Vegas Matt]

Must have been mega bucks, something like that.

[WBG]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

That's Lucky Lucy.

[Vegas Matt]

Lucky Lucy. Do you remember that one?

[WBG]

No.

[Podcast Host]

Wbg, you want one more?

[Vegas Matt]

Sure. Fire one more in there.

[Podcast Host]

In Bakarat, why does the banker bet still have a lower house edge even though the casino takes a 5% commission? And what would the edge be without the commission?

[WBG]

Well, the, the house hp or will the player hp if you don't pay the commission, you be printing money by betting banker. But the, the. It's just the rules. The, the, the rules for hitting favor. The, the banker.

[Podcast Host]

It says the banker house edge with a 5% commission is 1.06. Banker wins more because it acts second. Like the dealer in blackjack, which I actually felt like I heard before.

[WBG]

It's, it's. I mean, you're implying that there's position involved and it doesn't matter who at the order. Like, because you can turn over the cards either way. It's, it's, it's. I think what they're saying is the, what the player, what the banker does is determined sometimes by what the cards. What card the player draws. Like there's times when, if the player draws an 8, the dealer doesn't draw. And if the player draws a three, the banker wouldn't draw.

[Vegas Matt]

The odds are better for banker because of the rules. The odds are better for banker, but with the commission, it's 1.0, what you say? 0.3 or 0.8 or whatever. And it's slightly less for the player. So the banker is the better bet, even with the commission. And the reason that we bet banker all the time is because the banker does win more of the time. Like if you played a million hands, there's going to be more banker hands than player hands. There's going to be three results, banker, player, and tie. And then you could tell them what the skew is, but it's more. More wins are going to be banker, banker, and videos do better when you win. So we bet banker and also because it's mathematically a better bet. And so we bet banker every time.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[WBG]

I mean, if you bet banker all year and you bet millions of dollars, you're going to lose slightly less money. Thousands of dollars less. But also, like Matt was saying, the result of that actual hand is for the banker more often because of the commission. Right. Because if it's.

[Vegas Matt]

And a lot of people don't like paying commission. So more people bet player, which is just another example of uneducated gambling, you know, because they think, oh, I'm going to bet player because I don't pay commission and it's a worse bet.

[Podcast Host]

I asked Chat GPT for the hardest trivia questions that I could come up with.

[EJ]

Wow.

[Podcast Host]

And that's what I came up with.

[Vegas Matt]

That's cool.

[Podcast Host]

I'm curious where you, you guys headed to after this?

[Vegas Matt]

Today we are, I don't know, to be El Cortez. We're going to El Cortez today.

[Podcast Host]

And what are you guys going to gamble?

[EJ]

Oh, just what, See if they have any new slot machines and play some Bakra and have fun.

[Podcast Host]

How much, how much coin in are you going to, are you going to risk today?

[WBG]

Probably 50, 60,000 coin in, I would say.

[Vegas Matt]

I mean, there's a, there's a couple places in Vegas that we film at and El Cortez is one of them. And we have a great relationship there. And, and I mean, a typical day, we're going to get a little bit of late start because we were here a long time than we normally do. But normally around two or so we meet, go to the Starbucks, get some coffee or iced tea or ginger and turmeric shots. A lot of offerings, sometimes some egg bites. And then we will sit around and we'll say, like, what do you want to do? What do you want to play today? And then they come up and say, hey, there's a new machine. Or this, that and the other thing. And then we have a little 15 minutes, take pictures with people, hand out lucky stickers, just say hel to who's there and get in the zone. And then we go take a, what I call a profile pic. What do you call it?

[EJ]

It's a thumbnail.

[Vegas Matt]

A thumbnail. And they take a thumbnail. And then we sit down, assume our positions, start pushing buttons, and WBG starts telling dumb jokes and me and EJ bust each other's balls and we talk about whatever's going on in the town. And you know what? Like, I went, like, if we go and see the wizard of Oz, you know, which I said earlier I thought was awesome, but talk about that, or I talk about a TV show that we're watching, you know, that's really, really good. And we just talk about anything and everything. It's like a 45 minute session.

[WBG]

It's four friends sitting around talking about life, really. And it just happens to take place in a casino.

[Vegas Matt]

Yeah. And then that will, depending if we make one video or two will be the there for anywhere between two and a half to five hours. And then we'll either go home or go do something with our friends, which generally will involve more gambling and. Or going to dinner. And then EJ will go home and edit and then that is probably what the rest of today looks like. Yeah.

[WBG]

Lather, rinse, repeat.

[Podcast Host]

Well, thank you guys so much for coming on the show.

[EJ]

Thank you.

[Podcast Host]

Graham, do you have any. Do you have any parting words? Graham says like and subscribe, guys, please. Like and subscribe also. Obviously. Also your information will be left down below. Thank you guys for coming on.

[EJ]

Thank you for having us. Thank you.

[Podcast Host]

Best of luck at the casino, guys. If you want the full, unedited, raw version of this podcast, if you like it raw, subscribe to the members because you can see the full thing.

[Vegas Matt]

So all that stuff that we talked.

[Podcast Host]

About, all the stuff that we talked about, how you can get an edge in the casino, just getting me to talk about that. But thank you guys so much for watching. Appreciate it. Get the book.

[EJ]

See you guys.

[Vegas Matt]

Thanks a lot. Good to be back.