“They’re Liars!” Mizkif Breaks Silence on $36,000,000 Loss, Allegations, & Controversy

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Iced Coffee Hour — “They’re Liars!” Mizkif Breaks Silence on $36,000,000 Loss, Allegations, & Controversy

Date: October 20, 2025
Hosts: Graham Stephan & Jack Selby
Guest: Mizkif (Twitch streamer & content creator)

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Episode Overview

This candid, sometimes raw conversation explores the realities of the streaming industry, Mizkif’s wild financial journeys and major deals, the drama, controversies, and mental health challenges faced at the top, and how the industry is evolving. Mizkif pulls back the curtain on both the absurd and sobering aspects of life as a top-tier streamer, shares financial strategies (and mistakes), offers sharp commentary on platform shifts, and opens up about cancel culture and personal struggles. Throughout, Graham and Jack challenge him with questions about fame, money, business, and relationships, creating a fast-paced, insightful, and often hilarious discussion.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Is Streaming Harder than a 9 to 5?

• Streaming as a Lifestyle
  • Mizkif believes streaming is more demanding than most "average" jobs because it never truly stops; content and business growth consume his thoughts 24/7.
  • “You're an entrepreneur. You don't stop working. That's what it takes to be a top streamer. Streaming has to become your life.” (Mizkif, 00:01, 44:23)
  • Contrasts this with 9–5 jobs, especially remote tech roles, which he sees as far less taxing.

2. Financial Illiteracy in Streaming

• Common Money Pitfalls
  • Many streamers make millions but lack financial literacy, often just letting earnings sit in cash or buying homes in full rather than investing (“They don't understand stocks, they don't understand investments…” — Mizkif, 05:42).
  • Major purchases like Lamborghinis, watches, and mansions are common, but relatively small compared to their income.

3. Massive Streaming & Gambling Deals

• Eye-popping Offers
  • Mizkif was offered $36M to do 100+ hours/month of gambling content—a deal he turned down because it would have “ruined” his career and was aimed at selling out his reputation (13:59–17:47).
  • XQC received a $100M/2-year contract with Kick, fueled substantially by sponsored gambling (14:02–15:38).
  • “It was basically, hey, ruin your career for $36 million. And I can do that on my own. I don't need $36 million.” (Mizkif, 16:42)
• Gambling on Stream
  • Some streamers gamble with sponsor money, sometimes able to keep the profits; others with their own, which Mizkif deems more genuine.

4. The Decline of Twitch

• Ad Overload and Viewer Exodus
  • Twitch’s aggressive ad strategy (recommendations of 10–22 minutes/hour) is driving viewers away. Mizkif reports ad revenue down 50–60%, overall viewership down 25% in a year (12:41+).
  • “Twitch is a dying platform. It's dying because of its ads and it's dying quick.” (Mizkif, 00:37, 50:50)
• Where Are Viewers Going?
  • They're largely abandoning streaming, not migrating to Kick or YouTube in significant numbers yet; Mizkif believes a game like GTA6 will revive interest but only temporarily.

5. Platform Scams, Botting, and Ad Fraud

• Botting and Embedded Views
  • Widespread viewbotting (sometimes by agencies, not streamers themselves) and embed scams artificially inflate numbers for sponsors but undermine value, leading to suspicion and CPM decline (54:06+).

6. Business & Investment Moves

• Business Experiments
  • Opened a gym (“Iron Forged Him”), delivered good content and became modestly profitable but warns gyms are a tough business due to high initial equipment costs and thin margins (26:02–28:28).
  • Started a PC company (Starforge Systems) with OTK; nearly failed due to a hardware oversight, but a candid negative review led to improvements, and now it's scaling to eight figures annually (58:35–62:23).
• Investments
  • Steadily invests in S&P 500, Nvidia, and collector’s items, aiming for long-term security over flashy spending (89:50+).
  • “I would say my net is definitely way more through stocks. I've quadrupled my stocks in the past few years…” (Mizkif, 90:29)

7. Clout, Collabs, and Content Strategy

• Growth Hacks
  • Early growth came from making streamer documentaries, sending them around for reactions, leveraging ego and content needs of others (46:27–48:39).
  • Strategic collaborations, carefully studying other creators, and pivoting into car content as his audience ages (“What do 30 year olds want? They want to learn about money. They want to grow their empire themselves…” — Mizkif, 00:27, 39:09).
• The Value of Entertaining Over Everything
  • “I literally just care to make people laugh. My job on Twitch and my life since I was a people smile. Like, I love making people laugh. That's worth more to me than any amount of money.” (Mizkif, 102:20)

8. Personal Life, Controversy, and Mental Health

• Public Allegations and Cancellation
  • Mizkif details a devastating false allegation (“Three years ago, I got accused of covering up…”) that upended his professional and personal life despite exoneration in court (103:12–108:54).
  • “I feel like my brain cracked when it happened. … Now I'm very jaded and I don't trust anyone. … I was traumatized. I've been suicidal from it. I've been depressed, it fucked my brain up.” (Mizkif, 104:41)
  • Sponsors and friends abandoned him. The echoes of controversy persist in lost opportunities and lasting depression.
• The Harms of Cancel Culture
  • Criticizes “scam-exposing” YouTubers incentivized by virality, not truth, and frustration with the lack of correction after proven innocence (106:08–107:45).
• Handling Stalkers, Swatting, Parasocial Fans
  • Recounts frequent swatting events (including police storming his and others’ houses), stalkers waiting in elevators, and the intensity of parasocial relationships (77:34+).
  • “Some of my viewers have seen me more than they've seen their parents in real life.” (Mizkif, 77:07)

9. Twitch Culture, Dating, and Fame

• Dating Woes as a Streamer
  • Dating another streamer is “hell,” as the fallout can cause major industry drama (“Twitch is a high school” — 70:44).
  • Often pursued by women leveraging his platform for their own exposure.
  • “Biggest regret of my streaming careers. I never made an only fans agency. I fucked up.” (Mizkif, 72:51)
• Approach to Relationships
  • Enjoys being single, skeptical of monogamy due to abundant opportunity (“Do you think you're gonna be single forever? – Hopefully. I don't know.” 99:13).
  • Views long-term relationships as eventually ending up mundane: “What about when those kids are like 8 years old and your wife got fat and you look uglier…” (99:43)

10. The Streamer Tier List — Mizkif’s Quick Takes (115:00+)

• S-tier: Speed, Stable Ronaldo
• A-tier: Himself (“high-A, double-A”), Kai Cenat, TimTheTatman, Jason
• B-tier: Ludwig (“better YouTuber than streamer”), Ninja
• C-tier: Hasan (great at politics, awkward with guests), Pokimane (tired, more personality now than streamer), Neon
• D/F-tier: Jack Doherty (“the worst person ever when it comes to streaming”), Vitaly, Johnny Somali
• Notable commentary: “Speed is one of the greatest streamers, if not the greatest, of all time.” (Mizkif, 118:56)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Platform Struggles:
  “Twitch is down 25% this year. Twitch is continuing to fall since the peak in 2021. … I would hold my money and wait till GTA 6 comes out… That’s when I would invest.” (Mizkif, 50:50)
• On Turning Down $36 Million:
  “It was basically, hey, ruin your career for $36 million. And I can do that on my own. I don't need $36 million.” (16:42)
• On Mental Health After Allegations:
  “I was traumatized. I've been suicidal from it. I've been depressed, it fucked my brain up. ...I feel like my brain cracked when it happened.” (104:41)
• On Streamer Financial Literacy:
  “Most of them are financially completely illiterate, right? … I have so many friends that are streamers that have made millions of dollars that just straight up, it sits in their bank account and they don’t touch it.” (05:42)
• On Growing Older as a Content Creator:
  “I’m not trying to pretend to cater to this like younger audience … I’m 30, I’m not a 21 year old. … I want to do something where I can age into…” (26:02)
• On Relationships and Fame:
  “Dating as a streamer? It’s terrible.” (70:44)
• On Cancel Culture:
  “The truth is never as exciting as the perception. … It’s interesting to think that you’re exposing me and ruining my life. It’s not interesting when I come out and say, here’s a court that proves I didn’t do it.” (107:18, 107:24)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:01 – Streaming vs. 9–5, streaming is a lifestyle
• 05:42 – Streamer financial illiteracy
• 13:59–17:47 – Gambling sponsorship deals, $36M offer
• 12:41–14:57 – Twitch ad overload & viewer decline
• 26:02–28:28 – Opening and operating a gym
• 39:09–43:32 – Pivoting into car content, Lambo project
• 46:27–49:05 – How Mizkif grew on Twitch
• 54:06–58:35 – Botting, embedding, and fraud in streaming views
• 70:44–73:12 – The difficulties of dating as a streamer
• 89:50–91:34 – Mizkif’s investments and net worth goals
• 103:12–108:54 – False accusations, mental health impact, cancel culture
• 115:00+ – Mizkif’s live streamer tier list and rapid-fire hot takes

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Episode Tone and Language

The conversation is direct, at times brash, deeply honest, and laced with characteristic Twitch humor. Mizkif simultaneously projects bravado and vulnerability, blending sharp industry critique (“Twitch is dying; it’s the ads”) with self-reflection on personal trauma and insecurity. The hosts are candid, probing, and playful, often goading Mizkif into stories and hypotheticals.

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This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the realities of digital celebrity, the business and burnout of streaming, and the behind-the-scenes truths of an industry both lucrative and deeply unstable. Mizkif’s perspective oscillates between biting cynicism and genuine passion for his craft, offering a humanizing—and at times harrowing—look at life in the streaming spotlight.

Transcript

[Jack Selby]

Is streaming harder than a 9 to 5?

[Mizkif]

Yeah, my job's harder than your job. I'm always thinking about my stream, my content, how to grow what I can do better. You're an entrepreneur. You don't stop working. That's what it takes to be a top streamer. Streaming has to become your life. What am I really going to do that's going to make these people want to watch me? Especially as you get older, because your chat gets older too.

[Graham Stephan]

How are you investing your own money to try to like grow your channel and your brand?

[Mizkif]

What do 30 year olds want to. They want to learn about money. They want to grow their empire themselves. I don't want to watch you sit there and hang out with girls all day.

[Jack Selby]

So the whole environment of streaming is way harder to grow.

[Mizkif]

Now it's impossible to get into streaming. Twitch is a dying platform. It's dying because of its ads and it's dying quick.

[Jack Selby]

What would you say is your biggest insecurity?

[Mizkif]

It was bad. Like when I say there was like the whole website was about ruining my life. It's the biggest drama that's ever happened on Twitch. I have a really crazy story. I. When I was 16, I. I was day trading like every day, all day. And I started with $2,500. And this is right about the time where Wolf of Wall street came out and everyone was going crazy for penny stocks. Right. I got involved with this group and they were on Skype and they were called the Wolf of Weed Street. And the big thing was it was a guy had a wolf instead of. It was Leonardo DiCaprio. It was a picture of a wolf. And his thing was, you follow my lead, I'll make you rich. And then he started growing groups of people in that group who were like, these are your leaders. And you literally were just following them. I followed him for, for months. I would join his groups. I was listening to him talk in Skype calls and in meetings and he would tell you what he's buying next. And every single penny stock he invested in skyrocketed. Like, I did not lose money one time. And he just got bigger and bigger on Twitter. He started showing his penthouse suite all this crazy stuff. He blew the up. I went from $2,500 to over 150 grand as a 16 year old kid. 16. And this is what, 14? I forget how many years now. Yeah, and it was so big and I felt like a. So my friends were talking to me and I'm like, dude, I'm rich. I made 12 grand in some days as a 16 year old kid. And there's one investment he said, he said, guys, we are doing Tesla puts. Put your money in Tesla puts. And I'm like, dude, if I just put 50 grand in these Tesla puts and it skyrockets, I'm a millionaire at 16 years old. I was freaking out. So I put $50,000 in and I lost every single penny. And then he just completely goes to the community and he just left the Internet. But what was crazy is what we were investing in, which was penny stocks, but for weed companies.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Mizkif]

And they were complete. It was like, this is a random pharmaceutical in Nebraska that's going to start changing the game because his name was Wolf of Weed Street. So he only invested in weed companies.

[Jack Selby]

So you still made 75 grand.

[Mizkif]

Yeah, well, I'm 16 now and I'm alone with a bunch of money thinking, I have an ego and I know what I'm talking about. Right. So I had $75,000. So I then bet again on weed stocks, thinking I know it was doing because there were some other guys that were like, I'm going to take leadership, you should listen. And I listened to them and it continued to drop. And it continued to drop. And I literally didn't have one win because we kept investing in penny stocks to the point where I was down. I think I came out with like 15 grand.

[Jack Selby]

So at what point in your life did you, did you have hope that you were capable of making a lot of money?

[Mizkif]

It was probably. I always was a workaholic. I love business. I love. I went one time, I was in. This is. I was like five years old. I went to Toys R Us and I walked up to the lady and I demanded a job. I'm like, give me a job, I want to work now. And she's like, okay, here's a notepad and I want you to write down your information. Couldn't write. I'm like, dad, this is all you. And I walked out of there with my head held high. I was like, I'm going to be a toy, you know, connoisseur. I'm going to test toys for Toys R Us. And that did not work out. I called them. Twenty years later, they were bankrupt.

[Jack Selby]

But it sounds like they needed you, man.

[Mizkif]

Yeah, sounds like they needed you. Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

You see the movie Big?

[Mizkif]

No, I don't watch movies.

[Graham Stephan]

Okay. It's a Tom Hanks movie. That's what he did. He's. He's a kid. He's a, you know, grows up really quick from a A wish that he made and he was a toy tester.

[Mizkif]

Oh, that's sick. Yeah, Yeah, I. I wanted to do that. I remember I wanted to. I always wanted to work. I love working because I get very bored and I like money. So I always wanted to be very rich. So I always was trying to find ways to make money and whether it was selling, whether it was weed, stocks, you know, because when you're a kid, you're always trying to find a way to make money the fastest way possible, right? You're willing to take those massive risks because really, who cares if you take a massive risk as a kid? Whatever, right? That $2,500 that I risked, whatever, I wouldn't even remember it the next day. But I've always loved investing and I always loved trying to make money. And I was always looking at like, wow, if I just invest a few thousand dollars a year from 16 to 30, I'll be a millionaire one day. Right? That was my logic. But then when money really started to come in was obviously during streaming. Before that, I was a just a kid at college.

[Graham Stephan]

There's a stereotype, though, that, like, streamers and YouTubers are really bad with money. I'm just curious, what's the most reckless that you've seen someone spend money.

[Mizkif]

As a streamer? I'd probably say reckless streamers are not really reckless with money. I mean, I would say probably my Lamborghini that I just bought was pretty reckless because ad revenues down dramatically, sponsors are down dramatically on Twitch, and my sub count's way lower than it used to be. So me buying that Lamborghini that you told me to buy was definitely a risky risk move, and I hope it pays off. But we'll see what happens. The thing is, streamers are not really risk. They're not really. They don't buy things that are ridiculous with their money. I don't really know any streamer that truly buys ridiculous things. What streamers do is you got to put them in the mindset of like a 17 year old, because most of them are financially completely illiterate, right? They don't even know how to invest. They don't even know that you could put your stuff into a, you know, high yield savings account. They don't know any of that stuff. I have so many friends that are streamers that have made millions of dollars that just straight up, it sits in their bank account and they don't touch it. And because they don't understand stocks, they don't understand investments. They don't get it. I Have friends that have bought cash, full cash, bought houses. Like, what are you doing? You buy your house in full cash. Cuz they don't understand business, they don't have an advisor. And they're not really bad with money because the things that a lot of streamers buy, it's just games, right? They'll be like, oh, I bought this game this week. And the cost to stream is cheap. Hire an editor, maybe you have a manager and you're paying for electricity and a game. So there's not a lot of expenses for a lot of streamers. So they're not really bad with money. It's more so they're. They're just financially illiterate and they don't use them.

[Graham Stephan]

How much do you think they're making? Who, like the top streamers?

[Mizkif]

I would probably say if you're talking top streamers, you got guys like Kai Sinat. It really depends on how much they stream. But he probably makes, if I had to guess, over $50 million a year. If I had to guess, insane. He's doing a current. Well, he. Let's do the math. He's doing a current subathon right now, right? And his goal is to hit a million subscribers. Now people go, oh my God, that's where all the money is. That's not where all the money is at all. He's making way more money with the ads. Because guys like kai Cenat run 22 minutes of ads an hour on Twitch.

[Jack Selby]

22 minutes of ads an hour?

[Mizkif]

Yes. It should not even be legal to do that. But these guys, the new generation of streamers, they run 22 minutes of ads an hour.

[Jack Selby]

Hold on a second. We have four minutes of ads in like two hours. And people do not like. Okay, well actually, in fairness, we have four minutes of sponsorships in two to three hours. And then we have automatically placed YouTube ads, which is maybe an extra few minutes an hour.

[Mizkif]

Right? That's not bad at all. Right? No, listen, they used to complain about us running three minutes of ads an hour. Yeah, that, that was a big complaint. Was like, why are there ads on Twitch now? Well, they got to make money. But these streamers, these new gen streamers run 22 minutes. And maybe it's because we're older. So we grew up with a, you know, generation stuff. Yeah, we didn't have commercials like this nowadays. Nowadays these streamers or these, these viewers are conditioned to watch a lot of ads. Kai runs 22 minutes of ads an hour a lot of times on his stream. That means that every like eight Minutes, you're right. You're watching three minutes of ads. And they do that because they want you to subscribe or they want you to watch the ads Kai is making. If he gets a million subscribers this month, $3.5 per, per sub, that's 3.5 million. Okay? I promise you that with the ad revenue, it's probably double that because he's live 24 hours a day with a hundred thousand plus viewers running 22 minutes of ads an hour, Kai is probably making 10 million plus dollars this month. And that's not including other brand deals that I don't even know about. Nike, et cetera. I would say Kai, if he's able to hit 1 million subs, is probably making $10 million this month.

[Graham Stephan]

How difficult is that? Run an operation like that and stream that much?

[Mizkif]

It's very taxing mentally. I, I can, I condone him for his success. I mean, he's doing this, the third one he's done. Dude is extremely successful. The thing that Kai has that really sets him apart is not who he is because he's a great entertainer. It's his team. He has one of the best teams I've ever seen in my life. They are so good with the tech. They are so good at just keeping his momentum going. And I don't even know, I don't even know his team name. I forgot what they are. But they're great at what they do. They're making him into a superstar. Yeah, but that costs a lot of money. So I promise you that $10 million is something way less because Kai's probably spending millions on this whole subathon between flying people in between paying for just a bunch of stuff. He's probably. And also the people who are running the stream for 24 hours a day, he's probably spending a few million dollars just on that.

[Jack Selby]

So you're saying streamers aren't actually as bad with money as people may think? Because I see a lot of streamers that are buying like Richard Mills and they're buying CR watches, crazy cars, they're living in mansions. You're saying that still that's not very, you know, poor financial decisions of them.

[Mizkif]

No, because the thing is, a lot of streamers make millions of dollars a year. And these streamers, you know, they spend money whenever they want to, buying a couple watches here and there. It also depends on what they do. If you're talking gambling streamers, they make tens of millions of dollars a year. That watches pennies, they throw that. But if you're talking an average streamer who's a big timer, let's say 10 to 15k viewers, they're probably making a few million dollars a year. It's way less than what it used to be on Twitch. During COVID and other places, ad revenue was way higher. People subscribed a lot more because it was more community driven. And nowadays what Twitch is having is a huge problem, is their ads are down so much, they're down like 50, 60% in how much you get. And what's happening now, that's a real problem on Twitch is they tell you, hey, I. Cause I used to run 3 minutes of ads an hour during COVID That's nothing nowadays. I wish I ran more, but back then they would bitch about three minutes of ads. They were literally like, go yourself. You're running ads, period. And nowadays you've got this. These streamers, the new age, they're running 15 minutes of ads. Plus, yeah, the whole point of Twitch was to get away from the mainstream media of ads. It was, I don't want to see 18 minutes, 15 minutes of ads an hour watching Fox News. I'm going to go watch a streamer who can react to this stuff. And also I maybe runs three to five minutes. Twitch is not only down dramatically in ad revenue, and they admit it to us behind the scenes. They tell us every time, yeah, we're just, we don't make nearly as much as we used to in ads. And I'm like, okay, well, what is the solution? How are you going to make sure that streamers can continue their operation? Your website is declining in viewership every month. Twitch is down 25% this year alone. And that's not even including all the embeds and bots that go on on the website. It's on 25%.

[Graham Stephan]

Where are people going? Is it kick?

[Mizkif]

I don't think they're going to kick. I think what's happening is people are just leaving the website because the ads have gotten so bad that there's no reason to watch Twitch anymore. And then the problem is you can be one of those streamers that, hey, I'm just going to lower it to three minutes because you can do that. I'm going to be a good guy. I'm gonna make less money. I'm gonna lower mine to three minutes. That doesn't matter. And that's the problem is because since everyone else is running 10 to 15 minutes of ads nowadays because Twitch tells you to, if you go to my ad page, it says recommended ad time 10 to 12 minutes. Are you kidding me? That's. That's daytime television. And you're telling me to run 10 to 12 minutes? That's your solution to us making less money? So these viewers, they're leaving Twitch because the ads are so bad, they're not gonna stay around to watch other streamers as well? Because Twitch is an ecosystem. That's how it grew, is streamers were growing. High tides raise all ships. But if you run three minutes of ads an hour, okay, when you're offline and they're gonna go watch other people, they're all watching 10 minutes of ads an hour, they're leaving. They're not gonna just stay there for you. That's.

[Graham Stephan]

So when people are making that much money, though, and they. They tack on a gambling stream on top of that, how much do these gambling companies pay? Like, what's the craziest deal that you've seen?

[Mizkif]

I got offered $36 million for a year at my peak.

[Graham Stephan]

That is insane.

[Mizkif]

XQC, and this is public, he got $100 million for two years to stream on Kick and to do gambling.

[Graham Stephan]

Now, when they pay that amount, is there a requirement that says, okay, we're going to pay you this, but we recommend that you gamble 80% of that.

[Mizkif]

Like, yeah, they tell you to gamble. They tell you that you need to do a specific amount of hours. And for xqc, it was more of like a big deal that he went there, because this is the beginning of kick.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Mizkif]

But, yeah, XQC is by far the biggest deal that ever happened and will happen. He got 100 million plus dollars to stream over there and do some gambling and do two years of service there.

[Jack Selby]

But how much of that? So they fund his account, I'm guessing. So it's $50 million per year. It's about $4 million a month. How much of that 4 million that they give him per month, are they expecting him to gamble? Well, like, how much does can he whittle it down to? Can he whittle it down? Yeah.

[Mizkif]

Yes, he could, 100%. But he doesn't, because he also is a huge gambler. That's the thing that these companies want. They want you to push it, but they also want you to be addicted to it. And XCC is very addicted to gambling. So he was doing it off stream, he was doing it on stream, and he was just gambling sometimes millions of dollars a day. I think it's like his total account was like a billion dollars. Now, I believe xuc's money that he would gamble was actually his Money. But some streamers don't do that. Some streamers gamble with fake money. And that's where a lot of people have problems, is like, well, you're not gambling with your own money. And that is disingenuous as. Because you're acting excited a lot of times and it's not really your money.

[Jack Selby]

Can they not keep the profits if they're not gambling with their own money?

[Mizkif]

That's usually what happens is the company will say, look, you can keep the profits. So that way they do seem excited. But a lot of times what they will also do is, hey, you will give you, let's say $50,000 for three hours and you just play with this 20K and then just leave it in your account.

[Jack Selby]

So I saw a clip of a streamer that made $40 million on a spin on a slot machine.

[Mizkif]

Yes.

[Jack Selby]

Do you think that that's just fake money? No, that's real money.

[Mizkif]

I know that exact clip you're talking about. That's real.

[Jack Selby]

And he made $40 million.

[Mizkif]

He made $40 million and then he probably whittled it away. Yes, I know who you're talking about. He is a huge gambler. Yes, he probably would all the way. But I mean, he's also getting paid from Steak Monthly, millions of dollars, I'm sure, to promote it. So he's not whittling away, whittling anything. He's making millions and millions a month streaming on Kick.

[Graham Stephan]

So what was it like getting a $36 million offer like that? I mean that's like multiple generations, life changing money.

[Jack Selby]

If, if you could go back in time, would you have taken the $36 million?

[Mizkif]

And it's, it's really hard to say. I actually don't think I would. And the reason why is back then I had a tremendous amount of young viewers. I was very popular with like the Minecrafters back then. But then I ate this like autistic toy on Stream. I like chewed on it. And they all hated me afterwards. And I'm like, all right, if you're gonna hate me for that, you're gonna hate me for everything. But they, but before that is when I got this deal. And it was a lot. It wasn't just like a small, like, keep in mind, $36 million. Yes. It was basically, hey, ruin your career for $36 million. And I can do that on my own. I don't need $36 million.

[Jack Selby]

You'd rather just chew a toy?

[Mizkif]

Yeah, I'd rather just chew a toy. And they all. I got that offer Was basically, hey, we want you to make 100 hours of gambling a month. It was, it was not some, like, do this once in a while and tweet. It was like, no, we want basically your social media. Let's sell it for $36 million for two years. So it was, it was much more than that. Would I have be happy with that? I don't really think I would. You know, I didn't. Don't get wrong. $36 million is a ton of money. But the amount that they wanted and the deal itself was just a lot. It was, it was a tremendous amount of work.

[Jack Selby]

Like, I'm just saying, I think from your perspective, I wonder, because, I mean, Effectively you lost $36 million. I'm curious if you could go back in time.

[Graham Stephan]

Why.

[Jack Selby]

Why not just go take the 36 million, aka $3 million per month, go and just do penny slots the entire time and not get excited when you win it and tell your audience, by the way, guys, I think this is completely stupid. Tune in next year.

[Graham Stephan]

Tune in.

[Jack Selby]

Tune in next year. You could, like, that would have been phenomenal content. You could have talked about anything, played, you know, gambling on half the screen and then like YouTube videos on the other half and you're just like spinning the entire time and they're talking about this. And then there's a disclaimer or something. By the way, this is sponsored. And also, like, I could care less about this. I'm trying to take $30 million. Like, that would have been legendary to.

[Graham Stephan]

Walk away from that, especially if you talk about how bad gambling is and how addictive it could be and, like, how you shouldn't be doing it.

[Mizkif]

And does that work, though? Is the thing when you say either way, it's, it's. It's bad.

[Jack Selby]

You can win 10 cents. Be like, oh, look, I just won 10 cents.

[Mizkif]

But, you know, plus, I guarantee you, because these companies, you know, they would.

[Jack Selby]

Have stopped at a month in.

[Mizkif]

They would have stopped at a month and they would be like, you're not. If you're really just doing penny slots here, like, go yourself.

[Graham Stephan]

They'll find a violation in the contract.

[Mizkif]

Or they won't do contracts at all. I mean, a lot of these companies just do like, hey, here's the crypto, right? So I necessarily don't know if that would have made a. I, I definitely couldn't have done that. I definitely would have to gamble real money. Also be bored out of my mind. But back then, was it. Would I have done it? Probably not. If I can go back, would I do something smaller? Probably because I think for myself back then I was very against it. Also nowadays my viewers are a lot older so they don't care as much like, oh well, I'm like 30 now. Ms. I don't give a when. Before it was like a lot of them were like I'm 16 years old and a lot of those viewers just went over to Aiden Ross is what I guess or speed, I don't know.

[Graham Stephan]

Now, really quick, I just want to say that I always ask myself, what does the future hold for business? And the thing is, if you ask nine different experts, you're going to get 10 different answers from a bull market, a bear market, things are going up, they're going down. Be very helpful to have a crystal ball.

[Jack Selby]

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[Graham Stephan]

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[Jack Selby]

So on the topic of the people that are really bad with finances, there's apparently not very many. But then let's talk about who I think is the person that is best with their finances, which is asmongold. I mean, realistically, I suspect he's making a million dollars a month. That's what I think. And he's still eating dollar stakes.

[Mizkif]

Yes.

[Jack Selby]

So he's probably saving 99.9% of his income, basically.

[Mizkif]

But for what?

[Jack Selby]

I agree. I mean, I think he's shortening his lifespan by eating those dollar steaks and maybe not brushing his teeth, I don't know. But I think that that's a little bit dangerous because he could Be improving his life. Improving. Like, getting more sunlight, you know, this sort.

[Graham Stephan]

I think that's what makes it. Makes it appealing, though.

[Jack Selby]

Sure, it might make it appealing, but.

[Graham Stephan]

At the same time, didn't you have.

[Jack Selby]

A video where he, like, showered and it got, like, millions of views? I think people want to see him, you know, be healthier and like.

[Mizkif]

But you say that, right? But let's be honest. If you watch a fat man lose weight, it's exciting until he loses the weight. Right? Like, you gotta understand that if Asmogold becomes this prim, prime person and starts living in a lavish house or a nicer house, or he changes his style, people are gonna be very proud of the progression. But once they hit that goal, it's like, okay, but this is not who he was. So he keeps that narrative of, this is. I'm this gross guy, and it's smart. It's his business. It's. It makes him unique.

[Jack Selby]

Is it a narrative?

[Mizkif]

No. He's really like that. I mean, he is genuinely a person that lives in his house. And he will, in my opinion, in that house. He loves that house. He loves the way he lives. I don't see him changing. I think he can change a little bit. He might eat, like, a piece of broccoli every two weeks, but I just don't see.

[Jack Selby]

What does he do with the money?

[Mizkif]

I personally believe he probably leaves it under his mattress.

[Graham Stephan]

You don't think he's investing? No, like doing something smart with it. Have you talked to him about it?

[Mizkif]

Yes. I promise you, he's not. Or he. I just don't think he cares. I think between Kik, his normal money he makes, and everything else, that dude genuinely does not care about money. He cares much more about the growth of his channel and the success of his stream than he ever will. Money. He didn't care about money when I first met him. He never cared. Because for him, he knows this is the life I live, and it's $3,000 a month and he doesn't want more Now. I think it's.

[Graham Stephan]

I think it's. Part of me thinks it's admirable. Like, I don't need. So it's not admirable.

[Mizkif]

He needs.

[Graham Stephan]

He.

[Mizkif]

We've had talks with him. He needs to spend more money.

[Graham Stephan]

He.

[Mizkif]

He's lived this life for a while, and I think it works. In your 20s, right, that lifestyle, degeneracy, sitting around, you know, you're jerking off and just hanging out with your friends. But the lifestyle he has now, he's a 35 year old, 36 year old dude. It catches up to you at that age and I think he knows that. So I believe he's taking steps to get better. But I also know the dude probably just is going to continue doing the way he does. He's not a guy of change ever.

[Jack Selby]

Does, does he get a lot of interest from women?

[Mizkif]

I'm sure there's a lot of women that are some blonde chick that probably wants to cheat on her Republican wife that would probably asmin in a heartbeat, you know, I'm sure that's the thing. I know Asma, I know he likes Asian women with big boobs, so that's who he's going after. So if you're an Asian girl with big boobs and you want a nice man to feed you roaches and coffee with spiders in it, he's all yours. He'll make you a two dollar steak and you can have it as well because he's not taking you out to dinner. I promise you that he'll bring you.

[Jack Selby]

He has a natural apprehension to spending money. It's not the fact that he doesn't care at all and he just wants to hang out in his house, but it's that he's like genuinely apprehensive of spending money.

[Mizkif]

Yeah, I think it's just, he just doesn't. I, I'm telling you man, I've never heard the guy care about money. Whenever there's a deal or opportunity he would just like dude, you got to like this guy. You don't know. He would have $100,000 sponsors and he'd be like I don't want to do it. Like it's three hours. Why? I don't want to do it because I just want to go to bed. You're not going to stay live for three hours to do a hundred thousand dollar sponsor? Nope, doesn't want to do it. So he just wouldn't do the sponsor for three hours. It's like any game he's had offers for like half a million dollars for the dumbest, like just stream our game and put a YouTube video up. He's like, nah, don't want him. And that he doesn't do it because he just does not care about money. I think he cares much more about his power he has and his political views and his growth of his channel. And I think he knows that if he money is kind of in his way for that because that can make him not care about as much. You know, if he puts, if he cares about money, what will happen is that takes away from his profile who he is. And I do think he's going to care about it a little bit. He has to. He can't just keep doing this lifestyle forever. He'll die. And he knows that like he can't be this degenerate 16 year old boy that he still acts like sometimes. But I don't think he's going to change. I don't think he's going to look like you one day with a nice haircut and you know, a polo shirt or some.

[Graham Stephan]

You haven't seen Jack's living room though.

[Jack Selby]

My living room is fine, Graham.

[Mizkif]

That's, that's how what ASM says. I mean he cleaned his house once and he got canceled once and cleaned his room. But I, and I, but I promise you it's probably the same.

[Jack Selby]

What do you think it would take for him to clean up his, his.

[Mizkif]

House, get canceled again? It's probably his like method. I don't know. For me, I hang out with.

[Graham Stephan]

Two.

[Mizkif]

Asian daughters that I have in Japan and I just make a bunch of tick tocks. For him I think it's just cleaning his room because I'm like, oh, he's changing. Good for him. He just goes back to normal.

[Graham Stephan]

So what about for you though? How are you investing your own money to try to like grow your channel, your brand?

[Mizkif]

The thing is, the difference between me and Asmin, right is asmongold is a react streamer. You go to a stream for him reacting to the news and reacting the videos. His cost of expenses is very low. It's nothing, it's electricity, right? But my cost is a lot higher because people go to my stream, they don't go to my stream for me to react. They don't go to my stream for me to just watch videos and sit there. They go because I have collaborations, they go because I'm trying to do cool stuff and that's what I like to do. I don't like reacting anymore. I used, I did it for six years, bored of it. So what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to go more of a route of finance. And this is actually when I called you I was like, I want. And because I'm 30 now, I don't want to pretend to be 21 anymore. I'm not trying to pretend to cater to this like younger audience, the phase kids, all that stuff because I just find it kind of cringe like I'm 30, I'm not, I'm not a 21 year old. They, they can do it because they're young. But for me, I'm 30, I'm almost 31. I want to do something where I can age into, not where I'm. I'm trying to grasp onto what I had and I think a way to do that is finance. I think that's a finance business stuff. I opened up a gym a year and a half ago. It's called Iron Forged Him. No one thought we can do it, but it was super successful. It popped off on Twitch and YouTube. Everyone loved it. And now we have a thousand members, despite there being eight gyms around us. We have a thousand members, we do MMA fights.

[Graham Stephan]

How profitable is that?

[Mizkif]

Not a lot. Gyms are a waste of money. Please do not buy a gym because the problem is you have to make. Have so many members because you have to buy all the equipment.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Mizkif]

Cost is ridiculous. It was, it's like $800,000 in equipment.

[Jack Selby]

It's good write off.

[Mizkif]

It's a good write off, but it's extremely expensive.

[Graham Stephan]

So, okay, 800,000 equipment, then a lease you have to sign and then a build out so you're in it. What, 1, 2, 1 3? Yeah. Like everything all in.

[Mizkif]

Yeah. And then our lease is five years. I believe it's not. Was it worth to do for content and stream? Yes. Was it worth to do because we got a thousand members and we're slightly profitable? Yes, because we're growing still. Okay. We were at 800 members or 700 members a few months ago. Now we're at a thousand. And it's not because of me anymore. Now it's just word of mouth, which is the best part. But it was fun, content, I loved it. The chat was learning business. I was learning about business as well. I'm not, you know, I'm not going to pretend I know everything. And we really made a brick and mortar on Twitch, which was the first time ever someone truly brought and made a brick and mortar and it's successful.

[Graham Stephan]

How much is insurance?

[Mizkif]

No idea.

[Graham Stephan]

You don't know how much. Someone drops a weight on their foot and they say, you, you know, it's your fault. I got, I'm gonna sue you. Because this is.

[Mizkif]

I'm a big believer in hiring people smarter than you.

[Graham Stephan]

Okay.

[Mizkif]

So I. This guy that owns another gym right next to us around that area, I was like, hey, why don't you come in with us? You're good on stream and you run the gym. So he does all of that. But the gym was a success and it's, it's going well. Everything's fine. We are slightly profitable. We're using that money to continue to grow the gym a little bit because I don't really care for the profit of a few grand. So the gym's great. What I, and I saw that. I'm like, wait a minute. This is awesome. Chat learned something. They learned business. I learned something because that's what I hate about streaming is you're basically trying to pretend you're a young teenager or you're like in the mid, like late mid-20s or like late or like early 20s. Right. You're trying to pretend you're something that is farther away every year. You're trying to pretend that you're this, you know, young person that is friends all around when, like, I've known these guys for nine years. Most of them aren't friends. Right. It's, it's a game. So I was like, I just Wanna, when I'm 30, I just wanna do stuff that progresses me. And the business was awesome. Chat loved it. I loved it. So I'm like, well, what else could I do? And I was going to do a. I was gonna buy a house and fix it up in la and I called you and you told me that's a terrible, terrible idea. And I think you 100% right. Awful idea. Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

When you look at the amount that you'd be paying in interest, the amount of property taxes, the restrictions I'm, I, I'm going through right now, I didn't listen to my own advice and I built out a, an ADU in Los Angeles. And I looked at the numbers and the numbers were fantastic. Like, I'm talking, I'm going to make a more than 12% cash on cash return on my money with very little work on my end. Going through the city of Los Angeles has been the biggest nightmare of my entire life. If I could just go back in time and just tell myself, don't do that. It's just, it's the mental headache. It's not. The cash is great. It's just the mental headache of going through the city of Los Angeles has been awful. It has been the worst experience of my life. And they say we're in a housing shortage. We want you to build. There are all these incentives right now to build a property in L. A. I think, oh, it's great. I'm going to take advantage of this because my return is going to be so big for this one specific project on a property I already own. Perfect. Impossible. The city inspectors don't want to work. It's like just getting a phone call back could sometimes take a week. Everything goes to voicemail. It's awful. It's a whole antiquated system. You dodged a bullet on that one.

[Mizkif]

Yeah, well, you helped me because I was going to do it and take a loan out, but then I called you and you told me not to do it. And instead what you told me, which I greatly appreciate, you said, you know what you should do for content. Because I'm like, look, I want to get in the business. I'm not sure what to do. What do you think would do well on stream? And you're like, why don't you fix a car? Because that's what's blowing up on YouTube right now. And I didn't really know about it. I'm like, yeah, that sounds great. I can learn maybe a car thing. But I looked at the videos, like, holy, this is huge. I didn't realize repairing cars is such a big deal. And how well it's doing the. All these channels are getting millions of views. Matt Armstrong is leading the charge.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Mizkif]

So I'm like, yeah, why not? So I bought a car on a better bid dot com. I bought a car and it was a up Lambo for $145,000. After all the. Everything was said and done.

[Graham Stephan]

So I saw that. So my logic when I told you that was that I got really inspired by Tavaresh, who bought the P1 Hoovy's garage, who buys like clunkers and then fixes them up a little bit. And then our friend Biaheza, he bought a Lamborghini and an i8 and he fixed it up himself part time and his video was incredible. And I saw that. I'm like, oh my gosh, that's a. Like I would be doing that if I had more time and I had the editing skills that they have. And so that's why I recommended it to you on that. On that car, man, I think you overpaid for it. I mean, I did. That's the issue. That car, I would say, in my opinion, should have been worth just looking at it. Just, just seeing it on the thing. 115, I think would have been a safe bet because then there's enough margin there where when you overspend on it, you're going to be like coming out ahead or break even.

[Mizkif]

You're right.

[Graham Stephan]

But that price, because you could get like a fully like a nice one for 210 to 220 with a higher mileage. But like you're gonna spend too much money on that car.

[Mizkif]

Here's my problem though, is I really wanted a Lamborghini Huracan to fix up because I think it's good SEO. But what I also think is good about it is I just, I do love Lamborghinis. Like, I always wanted one. The problem is getting one on a better bid and having it to be content because that's opportunity cost. Because I have no content. So for me, it's very tough to figure out what to do next. And I'm like, okay, I know this is gonna be a little bit pricey. When I was bidding on it, I'm like, this is going a little bit higher than I want. I was hoping for like 120 in total. 150, 125. It went up to 145 and I was really hoping it wouldn't. But opportunity cost. If I wait for another car, now I have to stall for a month of content. And that's stress that I don't need. And that's money that I'm not making because I'm not streaming. So I was like, why not just buy the car? So I did bid on it, I did win it, and it blew the up all over everywhere, which made me really happy. And I didn't realize how many car enthusiasts are because I've started posting TikToks and it started blowing up. I started posting just like an hour long video of us fixing up the car and it started blowing up. But what was great is west coast customs messaged me and they're like, look, our guy, this, the CEO son, is a huge World of Warcraft fan. He watched Love's Onlyfans. He likes onlyfangs. And I'm like, you know, he's like, you should make your car here. I'm like, that's perfect. That's best content scenario is the biggest car place in the world is making my car with me. And it's been awesome. Like, I'm gonna make a. A whole series out of it for months. So it was worth. But I do agree with you. Did I overpay? Absolutely.

[Graham Stephan]

Why not go on Copart?

[Mizkif]

No, that's. That's what I did. It's a Copart.

[Graham Stephan]

Better bids.

[Mizkif]

I'm stupid. Copart.

[Graham Stephan]

Okay.

[Mizkif]

I'm gonna Copart. Okay.

[Graham Stephan]

You did?

[Mizkif]

Yeah. Okay.

[Graham Stephan]

Now, when Jack and I started the iced coffee hour, now almost six years ago, we had to figure out everything ourselves. From the best cameras to use the equipment, how to get guests every day, had a brand new challenge. That's why if you're starting or growing your own business, you know how valuable today's sponsor is and that would be Shopify. For those unaware, Shopify is basically your all in one business partner. They power millions of businesses worldwide, from major brands like Mattel and Gymshark to everyday entrepreneurs just getting started. And fun fact, if you shopped online in the United States, chances are you did business with Shopify because they power about 10% of all American e commerce. Plus, what's great about Shopify is that they give you access to complete design studio with hundreds of ready to use templates to build a beautiful online store that perfectly matches your brand. There's no coding needed and their AI tools even help you write product descriptions and enhance your product photos. Shopify also makes marketing very easy with simple email and social campaigns to reach your customers wherever they're scrolling. They also handle everything from inventory to shipping to returns. All the complicated stuff that you probably don't want to deal with. So if you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business ideas into. So if you're interested, sign up for your $1 a month trial period at shopify.comich again, that is shopify.comich with a link down below in the description. Thank you again to Shopify for sponsoring this episode. Dude, the west coast customs thing is big. Like, you have like. Even for me, west coast customs was my entire teenage years was watching Pimp My Ride.

[Mizkif]

I know.

[Graham Stephan]

And it was all west coast customs. And I would look at those cars and dream of like, oh man, one day, if I have a car, that's west coast customs, that would be the thing.

[Mizkif]

Well, you know, is. Is on the first day I went there, it was fun as the people there are great. They're so charismatic because they're used to being in front of cameras. Yeah, Chief Keef was there. I was like, what's up, bro? So I hung out with Chief Keef for like a second. I told him I'd make his Lamborghini for him. He probably forgot me in two seconds because he was. Whatever. He wasn't paying attention. But there's always celebrities coming in, so there's. There's chances I would see them as I make the car. It's a whole new thing. In my chat, I didn't know how much they would love it. They love it. They're so attentive. They're typing like crazy. Hey, like, get this part, do this, do that. They love the whole process. And I'm like, wow, this is great. You're learning something, I'm learning something and we're building something together that is not stressful for me for streaming because the thing that sucks about streaming sometimes and being the content creator of more irl, you have to find out what the are you doing that day. What am I really going to do that's going to make these people want to watch me? And that's so hard to do especially as you get older because your chat gets older too and they're like, I don't want to watch you sit there and hang out with girls all day. That's what I do. Or I don't want to watch you sit there and play, you know, a dumb game. What do 30 year olds want? They want to learn about money. They want to grow their, their, their empire themselves and they want to start a family. They want to, they don't want or politics. They don't want to deal with this. Back to asmongold. He's very smart. He's a very smart dude and he knows and understands these trends. Asmongold first started off as a WoW streamer and he knew that WoW is not going to be there forever. So what he did is he started to react to videos and those react videos did really well. Drama videos, gaming. He was really into gaming. First like reacting to World of Warcraft game videos. Then it was more gaming industry. He was glowing. He's slowly expanding. Okay. Now he's got more people watching gaming industry. Then from gaming industry he went to just the industries in general. Right. Started getting more into technology and talking about that. And now he has the biggest web of them all, which is politics. And he's 35 years old. Right. So that's smart to do because you're growing with your, your age. You need to do that because if you don't do that then you're just holding on to something you once had and that's not smart. I think for, for stream. I think it can come off especially a lot of times as like cringe where it's like, oh well, you're just trying to be this younger person. You know, you want to grow up and you also want a new directory of people that can watch you. There's a lot of people who now follow me from the car stuff like I don't even know who the hell you are.

[Graham Stephan]

The car community is massive.

[Mizkif]

Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

Our biggest episodes tend to be with.

[Jack Selby]

Doug demuro, Doug Demiro.

[Graham Stephan]

Oh my gosh.

[Jack Selby]

Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah. But that, because cars are like, everyone likes cars for the most part. Especially like if, if you are into money. Chances are you like cars. And if you like cars, it's probably. You also like watches to some degree. And so all of it overlaps. But that is just like really good, fun content. It's. It's relatable and it's aspirational because when someone gets like a Lamborghini, I always thought when I was like a teenager, oh, I could get this salvage, like, you know, 2005 Lamborghini Gallardo for $50,000 and I'm gonna drive a Gallardo for 50 grand. It's like I. I could wrap my mind around how that's possible for me. Yeah.

[Mizkif]

And I think what's fun about the chat is them seeing that. Don't do that. It's a waste of money with me because they're like, holy fixing. This car is so damn expensive. And Miz is wasting a lot of money. You're right.

[Graham Stephan]

I am.

[Mizkif]

But you know, I can because I'm streaming it. It's. You can't really lose because I'm just gonna stream more or stream a lot if I need to make more money for the car.

[Graham Stephan]

Dude. And there's so much you could do with the car too. Like straight piping the car, putting a wing on the car, wrapping the car. Different r the car. You could do so much.

[Mizkif]

We just did a design Stream. There was 20,000 people watching me just design the car. And they were so attentive. They were watching it. They were making polls. Yeah, they loved it.

[Jack Selby]

That is true. There's a massive community doing that on YouTube. But it hasn't really gotten to like, the live viewer audience yet. So you could kind of pioneer that.

[Graham Stephan]

And the thing is just starting. I hate to say it low enough, but with a huracan that there is so much room to go up from up from there. Like now. Like, Tavares set the bar so high on YouTube with a P1.

[Mizkif]

Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

And now he bought a Porsche 918. And that's like a 1.8 million, 2 million dollar car. And then Hoovy just bought a 300 SL Mercedes. And it's like the bar on YouTube is now like plus 2 million dollars.

[Mizkif]

Yeah, my bar is going to probably go lower after Lambo. Like what I want to get after this is like some early form of the Camaro.

[Jack Selby]

I think it'd be cool if you flip the car. I've been watching a lot of, like, the car.

[Graham Stephan]

Oh, yeah, I bought it for this.

[Jack Selby]

Oh, there's a guy, Doug something. He has a series right now that's like Blowing him up, which is buying or flipping cars until I can afford my dream car. And they're really, really good videos, and they're getting that. Yeah, they're getting like a million views a pop. He went from, like, I think he literally zero subscribers to like 100,000 after the second video in the series. It's crazy.

[Graham Stephan]

How much are you going to spend.

[Mizkif]

On a Lambo to fix it and to make it running? It's about $65,000 to do all the cool I want to do to it, which is get a. A kit. I want to get a wide body kit for it and, you know, some air suspension and also new exhaust possibly. And tuning it, you're looking at another 100 grand. Okay.

[Graham Stephan]

I would tell you not to do all I tell you. Just get it running, enjoy the car, then wrap it.

[Jack Selby]

But it depends how much money he's making from the street.

[Graham Stephan]

I'm just saying, the.

[Jack Selby]

The.

[Graham Stephan]

You're not going to get a positive ROI on a wide body and tuning there.

[Mizkif]

Not everything's about money, Graham.

[Graham Stephan]

Tuning the car, I'm gonna tell you, a big waste of money.

[Mizkif]

I agree.

[Graham Stephan]

The resale on that. Yeah. I mean, listen, the resale is already kind of messed up, but you mess it up even more when you're like, you got a salvaged car, it was in a bad accident, and you tune it and it's just. And it's going to make the car slightly less reliable.

[Mizkif]

But if I can do two streams tuning the car, I'll pay for the tuning.

[Graham Stephan]

But you could do two streams wrapping the car. Or. Or you could, like, wrap up it.

[Mizkif]

Why? Because it's cooler that you have a wide body kit. When you get that you get from Tokyo, that's like a. It's a. It's gonna be a one of one custom car. That's the whole point of west coast customs. You're doing something you completely unique. This car is gonna be one of one. If I just get a wrap, it's boring. I'm gonna like. I want to make this thing look sick as hell.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah, but can't you get a different body kit on it? Like, make it look like a different car?

[Mizkif]

Like, see, I'm not smart with cars, so I don't know. But every guy who's telling me says my car is sick and I should keep it. And to me, yes, I'm spending way too much money. I'm not. I' obviously know that there's gonna be some finance comments saying you're stupid, but to me, it's good Content. And that is worth the money. Now is that a worth a hundred grand to me? I don't know. That's a good question. Depends on my videos. Do.

[Jack Selby]

Would you say is streaming harder than a 9 to 5?

[Mizkif]

Yes. I'm not, I'm not kidding you. Yeah.

[Jack Selby]

Is that like a 100% resound? Yes.

[Mizkif]

Well, here's the thing. It depends on the nine to five. You go to an average nine to five. What does that even mean nowadays? Right. I have friends back home in New Jersey. Whether 9 to 5 is they wake up, they're on their computer for maybe two to three hours a day. Half the time they're doing something else. Watching YouTube videos or even streams. That's their work. And they pretend that they do eight hours a day, five days a week.

[Jack Selby]

It's.

[Mizkif]

I know what they do. Nothing. That, yes, my job is harder than a lot of people's fake tech jobs that they have where they're writing chatgpt emails where they're just answering a bunch of stuff for maybe an hour to a day. Yes, my job is harder than that.

[Graham Stephan]

What would you compare it to?

[Mizkif]

You're an entrepreneur, you don't stop working. I'm always thinking about my stream, my content, how to grow what I can do better, if this is good content. Because that's what it takes to be a top streamer. You need to be working 24 7. It's not a job, it's a lifestyle. Streaming has to become your life. If it's not, you will never make it. You have to make sure that you're always caring, always trying to do more, always trying to do better. Because that's how difficult it is to do nowadays, right? It's, it's, it's impossible to get into streaming.

[Graham Stephan]

I agree with you. I think it's not just being in front of the camera, but it's also strategy, title, thumbnail. And you have to constantly think about it. Constantly. If you're not working harder than everyone else, you're gonna fall off and no.

[Mizkif]

One'S gonna watch you. It's a lot of stress mentally. It's a lot of pressure mentally. The reward is there for sure, money wise, right? But it's a lot of stress, pressure dealing with stuff. And what's difficult about it is not necessarily that you have to go live. It's you have to go live and put on a show. Now with all this pressure, with this stress that you have involved, you have to entertain for eight hours straight. You know, you have a bad day, you're not Feeling good, it doesn't matter. You have to go live and you have to put on a smile and entertain for eight hours or people are staring you down in a camera or you have to hang out with people and do that. Most normal jobs, you can kind of fake it because it's a lot easier. You're not having to entertain. You might just have to put on a smile. But for streaming, you have to entertain to keep the viewers there. So I would say my job is definitely harder than most nine to fives today. I would say is my job harder than a garbage man or someone that actually works construction or a job like that? No, I think that they work way harder than us because it's physical labor. I think those jobs are much more difficult. But a lot of jobs that are your mundane jobs nowadays that people work three hours and pretend they work 40 hours a week. Yeah, my job's harder than your job.

[Jack Selby]

So the whole environment of streaming is way harder to grow now. But you kind of, you had a really strong growth. I feel like when you're first kind of, I guess started on that, that growth journey, what would you say are the top three things that you did in order to explode on Twitch?

[Mizkif]

Uh, well, I personally, when I, I studied Twitch, so I didn't just come into Twitch saying I'm a viewer. I didn't watch Twitch for fun. I watched Twitch to study what they do and how I could do it better. So I watched Twitch for about three years, constantly learning what people do. I watched the top streamers, Soda Pop and Greek Goddx Reckful. I watched what they do and I said, how can I make that mine? How can I grow myself? And what I did is like, I have an idea. I was driving to Florida with my dad. I'm like, why don't I make documentaries on streamers? And what I'll do is I'll make it funny, I'll make it dumb, not as serious. And I'll send it to them because they need content. That's the one thing that streamers need, is content all the time. And they love their egos being boosted. So I made this, the videos, wholesome, sweet and funny, right? And I'll take the react of them, put it on my channel, slowly grow my YouTube and then hopefully become a streamer one day through that. So what I did is I made these videos. I made a video called who is Tyler1? And I was with my friend named Glink at the time and he's like, dude, you know what you should do? Take this video and tweet it to everybody, because I just finished it after two weeks of working nonstop. So tweet it and let's see what happens. And Tyler did not react to it. Michaela, who's his girlfriend at the time, did not react to it. Tyler's brother, named E. Rob, watched the video because he has no content and he drinks all day. So he watched the video on stream, and he told his chat to go push it. They did, because they were like, this video's funniest. And it blew up from there. It went from getting a hundred views in a day to tens of thousands to now it has like 5 or 6 million. And I started doing that for a lot of the content creators at the time, and it blew everything up I had. From there, I got invited to go on an RV trip with Ice Poseidon. I'm sure you guys are aware who he is. I went on an RV trip with him, and then I basically started on twitch with, like, 30 viewers, but I had all the connections. So I started just, you know, going in the chats and talking. But I always knew I was, like, more entertaining than most streamers. Most streamers are kind of introverted and scared. I knew I was better collabing, so I just used that in my connections to slowly grow over time.

[Jack Selby]

Yeah, like, how fast did it take.

[Mizkif]

For you to make.

[Jack Selby]

Turn it into a viable business?

[Mizkif]

It happened in about five months. I knew I was gonna make it. Like, I went from the. From the second I clicked Photoshop and started making that video in Adobe Premiere to being able to say, I'm. I could do this was about five months. But keep in mind, back then, there was no money on Twitch. The top streamers were maybe making a thousand dollars a day in ad revenue. It was not this business now where people are making millions a month.

[Jack Selby]

So when would you say you started making real money?

[Mizkif]

I started making real money in 2019. And when I started was their sponsor started to pop up more because they realized this industry is really good to get into. And I remember there was a sponsor for Dayz on the Xbox, and I got $12,000 for two hours. It sucked. My viewership dropped dramatically. No one cared. But I got $12,000. And I'm like, wait a minute. If this keeps happening and I keep growing, I'll be rich. I can make money from this. I can grow my business. So that's when I realized, this is real. Because what's interesting is before 2019, 2018, Twitch to 2012, it was all through donations. There was no subbing. There was no ads. You just made money through donations. So a lot of the top streamers back then, like Reckful or Soda Poppin, they would get donations from these oilers. We'd call them Oil Princes, and they would be like $20,000, sometimes $30,000. Huge donations that would just come in from straight up. Oil Princes. I had one, one of mine, his name was Hamad, and he's an oil prince from Saudi Arabia. And he would just give me tens of thousands of dollars. What did he want? He wanted me to be successful. He's like, I believe in you. And he called me one time on Skype in 2019, and he was in a Rolls Royce in the middle of the desert, and he showed me his others, and he had like, four of the cars just sitting right there. And then he went 100 miles an hour and he got banned on Twitch.

[Jack Selby]

Where is he now?

[Mizkif]

He's in Dubai.

[Jack Selby]

Do you talk to him still?

[Mizkif]

He comes to my chat. He says, what's up? He puts this emote called Try Hard, which was pretty popular back then. He puts that and just leaves like, what's up, bro? But, yeah, I still talk to a lot of my old viewers. They're around.

[Jack Selby]

If you were to be able to invest in three streamers right now, who do you think. Who do you think has the most growth potential?

[Mizkif]

You know, that's going to be a question I don't even know if I can answer. Because the truth is, I think that with Twitch's massive decline in viewership, I wouldn't invest in anybody because Twitch is a dying platform. It's dying because of its ads, and it's dying quick. Twitch is down 25% this year. Twitch is continuing to fall since the peak in 2021. I don't think I would invest in anybody. I would hold my money and wait till GTA 6 comes out in six or seven months and I would find streamers there. My belief is, I think that Twitch is slowly going to keep dying. There's no good games, no one wants to watch it. But when GTA 6 comes out, I think Twitch is going to double in viewership in a day, and it's just going to hold that for a long time. GTA 6RP is going to be huge. When you see that, that's when I would invest in those streamers, the small ones that are funny, interesting, bam. Now the market's hot, right? Who can I invest in to grow? That's where I would go, yeah, but.

[Graham Stephan]

For streamers, what couldn't that include kick or going on like TikTok Live?

[Mizkif]

Yes, it could, but. But I don't trust kicks numbers and TikTok live is you're there today, gone tomorrow. It. Twitch is something where if you are able to hold a community and you're consistent, you'll probably hold that community at least decently. But the thing is right now is people aren't really growing. The top streamers are not who. Who are so viral in every other aspect. TikTok everything. They're only getting like 10 to 15k viewers on their normal streams. That's nothing. These guys are way bigger than I ever was. How many people are viewbotting a decent amount? So Twitch actually recently took down view bots and the views on every plat or a lot of streamers dropped like 20 to 25%. View bots have definitely taken over the website over the past few years. It has been something that most streamers have known about. But the thing is, and this is what people don't understand is they think that it's always the streamer that does it. I know I get viewbotted. I'm not stupid. I know that there are people outside of me that view bought me. Hell, I have been view botted before with a sponsor, right? So a sponsor will be there and they, you know, view bot you so you look like you get more views because who really is going to care? Let's say you're sponsored by Sony, right? They have a marketing department. That marketing department hires another marketing department who then finds your agency, who then pays you, right? There's a huge line of. Of chain. Okay, let's say this marketing team here boosts your numbers just a little bit and they report back to Sony and they say, hey, look, the numbers were great. Sony doesn't give a. They're Sony. So these, these agencies view bot a lot of streamers all the time to upsell them like crazy. And that's what's happened a lot on Twitch. I don't believe a lot of these streamers know they're getting botted. I think the truth is a lot of the time with these streamers is the agency is the one doing it. It's also proven that viewers view bot streamers all the time. Tyler1 was view botted for years by one viewer. His name was like Tyler loltyler1 laughing at you. And he found out he was botting him and he banned him and he got pro banned on Twitch. And then Tyler's numbers dropped dramatically because for years this guy was Just bottoming.

[Graham Stephan]

Why would he do that?

[Mizkif]

He likes them.

[Graham Stephan]

So he just wants to make them look better. Yeah.

[Jack Selby]

How expensive is it to view bot?

[Mizkif]

It's. It depends. So there's embedding. Embedding is very expensive because you're paying for an embed. And then normal botting is super cheap. It's like, I mean, I don't know the prices. I'm not gonna pretend I do know the prices, but I know it's not nearly as expensive to bot rather than to embed.

[Graham Stephan]

Wouldn't it be obvious, though, if you're not just getting the con, like as many comments or do they fake the comments too?

[Mizkif]

So nowadays there are bots that apparently can fake comments and they can fake subscribing to you. So it's pretty crazy nowadays. It's not some small thing. There are some times where like, you know, viewers viewbot. Like, there's. I remember one time in April last year, 2023. I don't even remember where I averaged 50,000 viewers in a month because just some guy was just viewbotting the out of me Hasan and Pokimane all day. I liked it. I didn't care. I was like, cool, I'm just gonna sit here and play, you know, Minesweeper with 50,000 viewers. I was just doing whatever the I wanted. But it's. It's tough to say if it's obvious or not. Some viewers, sometimes, yes, it's something that you can't really control and there's nothing you can really do. And with your agency, right, it's like, well, I know this is happening. I'm just not gonna say anything. Like, I've been bought at by agencies before. I just don't say anything because I don't really care. Makes my numbers look better. And if it works for the guy up top, it works for me. And it's interesting because people are like, well, companies must hate that. That's fraud, right? That's. Fraud is a problem. The front page of Twitch is embedded. So if you go to Twitch right now, the front page is a carousel. And companies will pay a lot of money to be in the front of Twitch. So that way, you know, they, Their, their streamer might get an extra 10,000 viewers, but it's not real. Everyone on the front page of Twitch is not watching that streamer. It's just. They're on the front page and not paying attention, right? So they. Companies will pay for it. They know that embeds happen a lot of times. They just don't care because they're like, well, I'm trying to hit my KPIs to go to that agency and say, we did a good job. That's wild.

[Jack Selby]

I wonder if now some of the advertisers are becoming aware of this, like, fake viewing problem on TW and that's why the AdSense revenue payout started going down and why creators are now putting a bunch more ads in. So fewer people. And then they start botting.

[Mizkif]

Yeah.

[Jack Selby]

And it's kind of like.

[Mizkif]

I don't think that's it. I think the reason why Twitch is losing money is because there are. I just think, in my opinion, I mean, I know some stuff that extra. But I believe that the return on investment for these advertisers is so low and Twitch asks for so much money, it's not worth it. They're going to TikTok where the KPIs are better, where they're getting, you know, better return on their investment for 10th of the price.

[Graham Stephan]

That's true.

[Jack Selby]

I think a lot of the viewers are pretty AFK on Twitch anyways. And so like you're not. If you're paying for someone with like 10,000 viewers, you're probably only getting like 2,000.

[Mizkif]

Like, let me ask you this question. If I play a game, you're paying me three. Playing a game on Twitch for three hours, right? Okay. That first hour you may be like talking, doing your talking points and people might be interested or not interested, but do you really think they're going to be interested in the second hour or the third? Why are you still paying me? It's, it's, it's a depreciation every single hour that you're losing that retention that the viewer might be afk, that the viewership is continuing to go down. Because whenever you do ads, your numbers go down. Right. So it's like, well, what's the return? And the answer is it's so low after that first hour. So companies are realizing, and what they're doing now is they're going based off of clicks, they're going off of other metrics. They're not just going off of viewership because they can't. And what's interesting is because I own Mythic Talent, I own an agency. The best people who are in the industry that make the most money for sponsors through clicks is VTubers. By far, their community is gung ho and just clicks on everything they tell you to. They buy everything you say they are loyal as, and they have so much money because they're all just a bunch of engineers that, you know, like vtubers, they have a lot of money. People that have the least are usually the younger kids. Now, the generations that are 15, 16 years old, they don't have all this money in the world, you know, so they don't even click a lot of the time because they're on mobile. That's what a lot of viewers are, mobile.

[Jack Selby]

So you started a gaming organization back in 2020 called OTK. I'm curious, was that profitable and what was the purpose behind doing so?

[Mizkif]

Otk, the point of it was to basically create an org where we all make content together and then we would one day sell the org, right? We wanted to sell OTK to a company where it's like, hey, you're in charge of this now. And we basically take a step back. At around this time of my age, I was like, I'm around when we're all 30, 35, whatever, we take a step back. There's new young blood in the OTK sphere. And we just basically chill. Well, that failed miserably because the truth.

[Jack Selby]

Is.

[Mizkif]

Orgs in general, just no one wanted to buy it. And it makes sense why you don't want to buy it, right? In 2018, it was such a hot word org group. 100 Thieves sold for $100 million or something like that. They made a ton of money off that deal. But when we got in, we got in too late and all the companies started becoming smart and they're just like, okay, well, because it was me and ASM were the two biggest people. They're like, okay, but what happens if Mizkif and Asmin take a huge break and we're like, oh, well, that won't happen. Well, ASMIN did for eight months. They know that. They're like, when Nasmin took a break, you guys lost a lot. What happens when one of your streamers gets canceled? What happens when there's a controversy it it you over the whole business? So unless you guys are squeaky clean Teletubbies, you're basically asking for this to be a failure. And no one took the bite. We did not get. We got. The truth is it just didn't make sense for anyone to ever purchase. And it didn't make sense to really run and operate. So now it's very small. I don't do OTK anymore because I moved here. They're all in Texas. But the thing is, we still have mythic talent, which is our agency. That's under. It's an umbrella. So it's under it. And we do have Starforge systems. Starforge PCs. They're huge. They're everywhere. They actually are great PCs. And we started that business on Twitch. We actually got really lucky. What happened was we've made Starforge PCs and we're all like part of it, right? We're all owners, we're great otk. And when we made the PC company, we actually up real bad. There was a piece in the computer that we didn't know was cheap when we first made the computers. And this guy was a reviewer of computers and he was on Twitch and he got clipped. Shout out to this guy who clipped this. And he said, and he was a big YouTuber who exposes computer companies like, I'm gonna ruin Starforge. And they. These guys don't understand that if they just change this one wire from 10 to 20, they'd have a great PC. But they're being cheap as. So we saw that and we're like, okay, let's just change that part.

[Graham Stephan]

Boom.

[Mizkif]

Everyone's like, wait, their PCs are amazing. So we literally got saved by that guy clipping us and us realizing that then Linus Tech Tips reviewed our PC and we were scared because we're like, holy, we're done. He loved it. He thought our PCs were amazing. From day one, he's like, these are great PCs. A little bit messy, but nothing crazy. And then Asmin reacted to it, which then blew it the up. It went to like 7 million views. It's one of his biggest videos ever. And then from there it's just been huge success. We sponsor streamers, we get a, you know, for a little bit, and then they get a lot because there's no real computer companies on Twitch anymore. So we don't have really any competition. We just give people money and then we make a return on our investment.

[Jack Selby]

How much does the computer company make?

[Mizkif]

It's in the tens of millions of dollars. Now, I'm sure I don't look at it every single day, but I know it's a growing business that is continuing to grow and they are super successful. I mean, the dude. So what do you get?

[Jack Selby]

Do you just get distributions or so every month?

[Mizkif]

Oh, currently right now, we do not get any distributions. We are literally putting it all back in because we fully believe this company could be huge one day. Like, I think it could be worth $100 million.

[Graham Stephan]

How much do you own of that?

[Mizkif]

I own a decent chunk of it because it's an umbrella under otk. I'm not going to say numbers, but yeah, like we all own a decent amount of every company that we own.

[Jack Selby]

So what percentage of streams do you think are manufactured content versus actual real organic, you know, behavior.

[Mizkif]

What do you mean manufactured?

[Jack Selby]

Like sort of trying to get a clip and like exaggerated behavior or like even faked content. Do you think there's a lot of faked content on Twitch?

[Mizkif]

No, I. I mean, it depends on the person. There's a lot of people that are trying to farm clips. A lot. A lot of the younger guys, that's because their audience likes it, they grow from it. Is it fake? It's improv. That's all it is. It's not faked. They don't fake clips. Usually it's more like this happened in this scenario and they're improving it to get a clip. I do it all the time. Like you're just figuring things out. They're like, that's a funny moment. That's all it is. Most clips are just funny actions or moments. The, the new viewers, new streamers are very entertaining. They're good at what they do and they understand that clips push their channel very far. So they just do more improv all the time. They're not thinking necessarily what's the best stream. They're thinking, what's the best thing I could do next to farm a clip to bring out that improv side of me?

[Jack Selby]

Who would you say is the most overrated streamer right now?

[Graham Stephan]

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[Jack Selby]

I actually used Gusto long before we partnered with them. In fact, when I first worked with Graham that very first year, I needed to run payroll. And so where did I go? I went to Gusto. I had no clue where to start with tax filings, benefits, deadlines. It was super overwhelming. But fortunately, Gusto walked me through every single step and I've been using them ever since. Gusto is an online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. It's all in one remote, friendly and super easy to use. So you can pay, hire onboard and support support your team from anywhere.

[Graham Stephan]

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[Jack Selby]

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[Graham Stephan]

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[Jack Selby]

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[Graham Stephan]

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[Jack Selby]

Who would you say is the most overrated streamer right now?

[Mizkif]

Probably me. Honestly, who's the most overrated streamer? I don't really. No, I don't watch a lot of streams. I can tell you who I think is the best streamer right now. I do think it's Speed. I think Speed is the best content creator right now in terms of just what he's been doing and his movement he's had. I think there's other ones too. Like there's this guy named Stable Ronaldo. I think he's a.

[Jack Selby]

We filmed with him yesterday.

[Mizkif]

Oh, really? Yeah. Genuinely funny, witty dude. Like, he to me is someone that I. He reminds me of myself when I was younger where I just didn't understand the world. He's like a non jaded version of me. And I think he's a really good streamer.

[Graham Stephan]

I was surprised because I had watched his content and it's obviously like I can't get into it, but talking to him, he's so strategic and like very smart, very calculated.

[Jack Selby]

He's a good dude.

[Graham Stephan]

He's not smart. Dumb.

[Mizkif]

Like he's not dumb.

[Graham Stephan]

Very articulate.

[Mizkif]

Yeah, he knows what he's doing. He knows how to play the game. He's good with clips. He's just a genuinely funny dude and he's. I do think he has a lot of room to grow because I think when you go on Twitch, there's a lot of streamers that you're like, well, this guy's probably better as a clip. I think Ron is a great streamer. I think his whole stream is just good when I watch it. No, he's too young for me to care. Right. I'm not gonna watch a 21 year old all day. But I also just watch Gossip Girls. Who am I talking? But at the same time, I'm not watching Ron. But I think he's a great stream. I've seen his streams. I'm like, yeah, this guy gets it.

[Jack Selby]

Was there ever a moment in time where you genuinely considered quitting streaming?

[Mizkif]

Oh, yeah, all the time. I. I wanted to quit streaming. I started having ideas of quitting or retiring five years ago. And my dream was always, when I'm 30, I'll quit. Because I said to myself, I know how mentally exhausting this job is because it's very mentally exhausting. And I was like, at 30, I'll have enough money to quit. 30, I'll retire. Well, I'm 30 and it's not necessarily that I'm. I'm not retired. I just. I've definitely taken a step back. I stream six days a week, eight hours a day. But I don't see myself retiring anytime soon. Retirement sounds boring. As I just thought about it, I was like, it's a great idea for about two weeks and then you're bored.

[Jack Selby]

I'm curious. Being a pretty big person on Twitch, I mean, you could say you have celebrity. I imagine there's a lot of really interesting opportunities that come alongside that. What would you say are like some of the craziest DMS you've gotten from.

[Mizkif]

People is that I'm a celebrity. Because I'm like, that's just not true. I'm not a celebrity.

[Jack Selby]

No, I think that you have celebrity, right? Like, if you go and like, like, I mean, they were literally like five minutes ago, people were like, freaking out as they were walking by. I don't know if that was because of this guy.

[Graham Stephan]

Maybe that's because of us, you know.

[Mizkif]

Maybe like, oh, my God.

[Jack Selby]

Or. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, they were. Yeah. But anyways, I think that. I'm sure you get a lot of crazy opportunities and DMS and stuff like that. What would you say is the craziest opportunity like that?

[Mizkif]

I mean, I don't really think that opportunities. But yeah, like, this thing is, streamers are just so transformative with their content that we're just so well known. Right, because you guys make a video and then you have to, like, make clips yourself or try to organize how to be strategic. Dude, with streamers, we just have clippers that just clip our. Because they're trying to grow their brand. You know, steak logos are on our. We can have. I can make five tik toks in a day just by being an idiot on Twitch. So for us, it's so easy every day to make content that we're just so known now that, yeah, like, I get recognized all the time, but those people don't watch me. And they're like, oh, wow, dude, I love this stream. Half the time they're like M. Keef or Mix Kiff, because they just seen my clips. And yes, like, I'm very well known. I walk down the street, people sometimes, most of the time, people recognize me, but it's never really. It's not usually in a way of like, I love your content. It's like, I saw you play Mario 64 four years ago on a clip. Or like, yeah, your sister's was showing and I saw your face. It's. It's never like a genuine moment. It is sometimes, don't get me wrong, but most of the time it's. It's just clipping.

[Jack Selby]

That's so interesting because I feel like whenever we get recognized, it's like they watch the podcast and so they see us once a week for like two hours a week. And so they know a lot about what's going on. It's very rare. Like, hey, aren't you that one guy?

[Graham Stephan]

Dude, it's so funny. Every time people come up to me they're like, dude, did Jack get a girlfriend yet? They always ask about your dating life. Speaking of, so is Jack dating someone right now?

[Jack Selby]

Speaking of, I'm curious. How is it dating as a streamer?

[Mizkif]

Streamer. How is it dating as a streamer? It's terrible.

[Jack Selby]

Really?

[Mizkif]

Oh yeah?

[Graham Stephan]

Why?

[Mizkif]

Because you, you. It's. Well, when you date someone else, that's a streamer, like you want to usually date that someone understands your business or like what you're going through, right? That's hell. Because what happens is Twitch is a high school. That's all it is. It's a glorified high school. You have the people sitting at the lunch table with the nerds, the geeks. You have the people that are losers. You know, you've got the sports guys, whoever. You have all these lunch tables at this table. In high school, that's all it is. It's just a high school. And if you date someone, what happens is, you know, friends pick sides usually in that high school. That's what happens. They leave you or they leave them. So when you break up with someone, it usually put the whole feng shui of the website almost and it can cause a lot of drama or indirect problems for you throughout your career. And. And it's definitely done that for me. It's definitely done it for a lot of other streamers. I will never date another streamer again in my life. Dating. I mean there's a lot of whip. So it depends on the streamer. I'm one that I bring on a lot of women and I also use women a lot on stream. So a lot of women do come to me being like, I'll you just bring me on your stream. But I'm very against straight up tell you that. Well, it's so obvious. They're like in my DMs trying to hang out with me like off stream to then like be like, oh, come on stream. Or how do they know know?

[Graham Stephan]

How do you know they're not just genuinely interested in you, bro?

[Mizkif]

I am not. No way. I am. There's no way.

[Graham Stephan]

You don't think there's any chance they like genuinely.

[Mizkif]

Half the time these girls that are trying to go on my stream, they have like husbands and. And they're like, yeah, I want to you basically just for the flirt with me and then be like call my stream and then they make money. I've had a girls come on my stream. Sometimes I make like 10, 20k in a day just going on my stream.

[Graham Stephan]

Oh.

[Mizkif]

Because my viewers are coomers to the max. They're just twitch chatters. They're like, ooh, boobs. And they go nuts.

[Graham Stephan]

How do they make the money, though? Is it like a funnel to an Only fans or something?

[Mizkif]

Only fans. They just bend over real quick. Be like, you dropped your controller. And then I'm like, dude, you made more money than me today. That's literally what happens.

[Jack Selby]

Do you get them to pay you to come on your stream?

[Mizkif]

Biggest regret of my streaming careers. I never made an only fans agency. I up.

[Jack Selby]

Why don't you start one now?

[Mizkif]

Because I feel like there was a time for that. I'm a car guy.

[Jack Selby]

I know you're a car guy.

[Mizkif]

I just don't want to do it like I am. It's like. Like I've. I've done it for seven years. I brought on Only Fans Girls and did that. I'm not trying to redo that again when I've just slowly gotten away from it.

[Graham Stephan]

What do you think of Jack Doherty doing that?

[Mizkif]

He's. Oh, you asked me who's the worst streamer? Jack Daughtry. He gets 300 viewers and he's still the worst, Most overrated streamer. He sucks. He's actually. He's like a terrible person. What do I think of him? I think any girl that's with him is very sad. I think he's a sad human being in general and everyone feels that way. He's just a loser. Like, he's the worst.

[Graham Stephan]

Do you think that perhaps there could be some strategy behind what he's doing and he has this Persona because it is strategy. It makes it talkable.

[Mizkif]

Yeah, no, there's definitely a strategy with what he is. But I also know from firsthand, from people who hung out with him, he's just a dick. Like, it's not just this, like, oh, I'm a strategist. It's like, oh, well, I'm this piece of. Let's use this. Because he's just a.

[Graham Stephan]

So I will say in his defense.

[Mizkif]

Anyone that's willing to do what he did to, like, bothering people on the street, you're a. Like, you're just a bad person.

[Graham Stephan]

So I will say in. In his defense, five years ago we had him on the podcast, and it was an early podcast, like 8 o' clock in the morning on, like a weekday. And I was thinking, because I was not familiar with him and I saw his content, I'm like, there's no way this kid is going to be on time. Because I saw him pulling pranks on neighbors and, like, Disturbing the peace and that. I thought he was going to come in late, was gonna be just like disrespectful. Disrespectful. My gosh, he shows up like five minutes early. He's so kind, so nice. Now, granted, that podcast was five years ago, but, like, he really seems sincere. Like back then in person, it's easy.

[Mizkif]

To fake for two hours.

[Jack Selby]

I mean, even we spoke off camera and everything.

[Mizkif]

I mean, he might be sincere to some people, but he also could. I. I genuinely believe that that kid was a nuisance and stake one. I mean, he just. I've seen his videos from 10 years ago, and he's still a prick. Like, he's just a dick kid that doesn't have to grow up. I. You could tell me all you want that he was good on your podcast. I'm sure he was, because he probably saw opportunity, but he was just that guy. You know, when you dangle views in my face, I'm going to change because I can grow, especially when I'm small.

[Graham Stephan]

What about like people like Vitali or Johnny, Somali extremers like that that are now in jail?

[Mizkif]

Do I. I. I mean, I truly believe that fame, I mean, you know how it is. Fame and, and attention can really your brain up. And I think those people are just mentally deranged. I, I mean, Vitali doing what he does and did what he did, and same with Johnny. It just blows my mind that it's a reality. And I don't think they were like those terrible people before, but it definitely was brought out through streaming.

[Graham Stephan]

You know what I think it is?

[Mizkif]

It's like drinking, right? It changes. Like you, you people say that drinking is just a personified version of who you really are and what you're thinking, right? I would say it's very similar to streaming. As you get an ego, as you get more famous, as you want to push that envelope, you just continue to get it as a worse person.

[Graham Stephan]

You know what I think it is, is that to continue growing to that degree, you have to keep one upping yourself. And there's just a point where you can't keep one upping yourself without getting in trouble.

[Mizkif]

It's also that these, these content creators feel that it's their only way to get into the space, like, who's really being that of a person? Because if you are, you're probably getting some pretty insane national news, right? It's hard to get into the space being a good person. You go live and try to be funny or chill out and relax and play minecraft you're not going to get anywhere. So you have to do what's crazy to make it work. So they just take the most toxic communities in the world, the four channers, the whatever you want to call them, the swatters, the doctors, and they just go with them, trying to make a community. And it never works. Like, they get like 200 viewers, but they get all this hate.

[Jack Selby]

So speaking of being swatted and doxed, what are your experiences with that? I imagine I've always had this theory. Well, it's not really, I mean, most people would probably agree with it that I think the relationship between like the die hard viewers and a streamer streamer is way more parasocial than like a viewer of a YouTube channel because they're spending time with you for eight hours a day or whatever.

[Mizkif]

If, I mean, you can argue and say that some of my viewers have seen me more than they've seen their parents in real life. Statistically, if you've been watching for eight years, you've watched me constantly, you've seen my face more than probably you've seen your parents face.

[Jack Selby]

What are some of the, the craziest experiences that you've had? I'm guessing you've had, you know, price stalkers or, you know, people that docs you or people that swat you. Like, with relationships with fans, I've had a lot.

[Mizkif]

I mean, I started with ICE Poseidon where we just got swatted every day on an RV bus. We had M4s put on our head while we got out of a bus multiple times. I've been swatted dozens of times. Swatting has gotten a lot less over the years because the technology's gotten better to find the swatters. A lot of swatters have gone to jail. So people are afraid to do it and they should be because it's way more difficult. A lot of police now know about swatting. Back then it was not really known, so they're not as stupid. And a lot of times the streamers call the cops and say, hey, I'm this streamer I live at blank. Just want to let you know there might be a dumb call one day about me. And they usually will call you first and then I'll hang up and then it's fine. So it's definitely gotten way better. But when it comes to stalkers, I've had plenty because it goes with having streamer relationships. It goes with being close friends with other content creators and their stalkers start going after you. I've had stalkers come to when I'm going down the elevator in Austin, Texas, Waiting for me at the bottom stairs. Just talk to me and say that like. Like they're here for XYZ or they're here for me. It's been a lot, I think.

[Graham Stephan]

What do they want?

[Mizkif]

Friendship, relationship. They think they're in love with us or that we're in love with them. They're schizophrenic usually, so they truly believe what they're thinking. I've had encounters with stalkers that are at hotels for months that are just waiting for us to come outside. I've had. We've had encounters where someone moved close to us for months that we didn't know about just so they can talk to us. And then they went bankrupt and had to go back to their country because they just were not. Didn't have a job. They were just waiting for us to hopefully one day reach out to them. It's crazy stuff. And I'm not. Mine are bad, but there's some streamers that have way worse stalkers than I do, but primarily girls. Way more stalkers than we ever had.

[Graham Stephan]

Hearing about Pokimane, like, the length she goes to to make sure that they don't know where she is. Like, I heard maybe she said this, that she had to like remodel her kitchen so that people couldn't reverse image search her backdrop to find where she lives.

[Mizkif]

That's the thing. It's very easy nowadays to find your address. Like, I don't even try to pretend that people can't find me at all times because it's just so obvious. Like, I don't try to hide it. I don't try to fight it. I just know that, like, yeah, you probably know where I live. I don't really care. But it. I'm also a guy, right? For girls, it's way different. For girls, it's like, that's a. That could be scary. That could be death. Some of these streamers viewers are insane. You know, they. They write to them, they. They call them. They'll harass their family for years. I don't really have that. I. I don't. I'm not interesting enough to do that too. I don't think people care.

[Jack Selby]

I'm curious on the topics of streamers and their fans. What about stream snipers? Who is Dr. Pepperman? I know he's given you Dr. Pepper quite a few times now.

[Mizkif]

Yes, it's very, very, very popular clips. I get recognized for that from kids like, dude, Dr. Pepper guy. Like, what? I'll be honest. I don't know him. I have no idea who he is. He has never contacted me. I've never contacted him. No idea. I. I don't know him.

[Graham Stephan]

What do you look like?

[Mizkif]

He's just some kid from, I think, New York or somewhere that.

[Jack Selby]

Why was he in Japan?

[Mizkif]

I don't know. I have no idea. I've never said a single word to him. Because the thing is, that is good content. Don't mess with it, right? If it's a good thing, don't mess with it. He comes in, he gives me a Dr. Pepper. He opens it, I drink it, it gets a lot of views. Don't mess with it. I don't message him. He knows what he's doing. I know what I'm doing. I don't care what the rest is.

[Graham Stephan]

Don't you.

[Jack Selby]

Don't you want to know? You know, like, how is he making money?

[Mizkif]

How do you. How is he?

[Jack Selby]

Because there's no sponsors, no brand deals, no ads, no nothing.

[Mizkif]

He.

[Jack Selby]

He's like a. He's a mystery.

[Mizkif]

Yes. And I would like to keep it that way. Like, it's up to him if he wants to do something with it. But to me, it's not my job to. To expose that.

[Jack Selby]

I saw this one clip of some. Someone who tried to chase him down, and then she started having, like, electrical issues with her stream. Like she was trying to follow him and film him. And then, like, no one had ever done that before. And then the first time someone did it, like, literally, their. Their footage started, like, it looked like it was being disrupted by some, like, EMF thing.

[Mizkif]

It's like glitching out of a cutscene. Don't do it. Right? Like. Like, let's watch the cutscene. The cutscenes. He walks away. You don't know where he goes. I saw that clip where she tried to follow him. Why do that? Like you're ruining something good. He comes in. It's funny, it's interesting.

[Jack Selby]

He's the only good thing we have left, right?

[Mizkif]

So if you. If you go. And what she did was trying to follow him around and, like, where is he gonna go? What car? It's like, come on, let the guy make his bit. Make and. And leave and. And keep the mysteriousness going. Going. I will never message him and he'll never message me, and I don't think he's ever messaged any of us because I don't want to know what he's doing. If he comes in, I say, what's up? And I take the Dr. Pepper listening to creators who make only fans drives me nuts. Why? Because they don't work at all. At all.

[Jack Selby]

It's basically like posting an Instagram picture.

[Graham Stephan]

But here's the thing. I'm sure people could look at you and be like oh, but my job is so hard and I don't make millions a year. I could do that.

[Mizkif]

They're. And they're probably wrong but. But maybe those girls.

[Graham Stephan]

Maybe you're wrong with some of that too.

[Mizkif]

I'm not. I. I've seen them do what they do though. Here's what they do. They have someone posting their stuff in Phil in the Philippines at $2 an hour pretending to be them all day. So that way the dudes that are messaging them that are like I want to you they're just going to some 38 year old dude in the Philippines. Then they just go to a photo shoot maybe once a month and just do all their videos and pictures in a day, maybe two. And then they go home. Home. They have nothing to do with the rest of them.

[Graham Stephan]

So if you were a hot girl, would you do only fans?

[Mizkif]

There is no question in the. I'd be the biggest imaginable. I would not give a. Of course I would actually wouldn't be a big at all because that doesn't make the money. It's better to be scandalous. I would be like, you know, flashy show a little bit but not too much. I would totally have an only fans. Yes. No question about it.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah. I was blown away when I saw Sophia Rain on David Dobrik's blog.

[Jack Selby]

It was what, 80, $83 million in a year and a half?

[Mizkif]

Now don't get me wrong, some of these girls work really hard because they're const making videos, tiktoks posting. They are doing a lot of stuff. I know some girls like this girl named Morgpai who's a friend of mine. She's working at 12 hours a day on Twitch. Then she goes offline and does videos and tiktoks and posts. There are also girls that straight up do nothing.

[Jack Selby]

I'm curious though also you did turn down this. The steak deal or the. The the online gambling casino deal and lost $36 million. But I'm curious, I'm curious what is the biggest stake deal that you've heard of?

[Mizkif]

I told you it was XQC. It's like $100 million.

[Jack Selby]

So it's that officially XQC $100 million over two years.

[Mizkif]

Yeah, I mean there's other streamers I'm sure that have made close to that but XCC was just the most profound known one.

[Jack Selby]

How much do you think he's going to walk with at the end of two years? Because he's going to gamble a lot of it.

[Mizkif]

Like I probably 200 million because you got to realize something like yes, he had that money but they put he got it in Ethereum. Ethereum's only skyrocketed over the past year. Wow.

[Jack Selby]

What about, I thought he's gambling with the money, sure.

[Mizkif]

But he's not gambling a hundred million dollars. So he's gambling and I'm sure he's maybe let's say is a little bit lower or break even or maybe he's above, I don't know. But he got it from Ethereum two years ago.

[Jack Selby]

So he's not bleeding millions a month when he's gambling.

[Mizkif]

No, not at all. Because while he's streaming gambling on now, he has two year contracts over now. If he streams gambling, he's getting paid. So he's using that money to just gamble with Ethereum.

[Jack Selby]

Do you think that he's the wealthiest streamer?

[Mizkif]

Yeah, it's not even a question.

[Jack Selby]

XQC is the wealthiest.

[Graham Stephan]

More than Aiden Ross.

[Mizkif]

Yeah, for sure. I bet XQC is worth like $200 million and I bet you eight. The thing is like I don't know, right. Like Aiden Ross could be. To me it's like they're both yin and yang. They're both the British streamers on Twitch or in the industry.

[Jack Selby]

Nothing like Speed or Kai.

[Mizkif]

I don't think Speed's worth, I'm sure Speed's worth millions and millions of dollars but I just don't think it's that much because he does short streams, he doesn't really promote anything. He put in a crypto scheme a while ago. I didn't even money on that but. But that was like five years ago. Kai is definitely worth a lot of money but it's nothing compared to XQC and Aiden Ross. They just, they're deep in the gambling that you can't beat it.

[Jack Selby]

So let's talk about you and your finances over time if you're open to talking about it.

[Mizkif]

Sure.

[Jack Selby]

When did you start making like crazy money? At what point?

[Mizkif]

2020.

[Jack Selby]

2020. And what was revenue looking like? Where was the money coming from?

[Mizkif]

It was all sponsors. Sponsors and then back then a lot of it was advertising on Twitch. You run ads, so. So I was making a lot from that. 20,000 to 30,000 subscribers a month on Twitch. That's 3.5 times 20, which is what, like 80,000 or something? So I was making a lot on Twitch. Sponsors were very heavy back then because they had nothing to spend money on besides us, because Covid was happening. So where did they put all their money towards streamers. I did almost a sponsor, like, every other day because they didn't have anything else to spend it on. There was no TikTok stuff. Nothing was happening. And everyone was talking about Twitch all day. I mean, I would sometimes sit there with 40,000 viewers doing nothing because they're just like, yep, we're bored. We have nothing to do.

[Jack Selby]

So what was the most you ever made in a month?

[Mizkif]

The most ever made in the month is probably like 900 to $800,000. Wow. Yeah. How sponsors. I mean, I could have made way more. There's. I turned down a Saudi Arabia deal, which I regret turning down. That was $500,000 to go, and then it was like $400,000 to come back. It was like 900 grand or something.

[Jack Selby]

What do you mean to come back?

[Mizkif]

Like, it basically, if you took the deal and then you went and then you did the whole thing, like, you didn't just do a little bit of it. It was like a week or something. I had to go for, like, some Fortnite thing. Then you would get 900k, so it was like 500k up front.

[Jack Selby]

And why'd you say no?

[Mizkif]

Cuz Hassan Piker, that piece of was like, blah, blah, blah, don't do it. And I'm like, damn it. And then I got a hate thread on Twitch. And back then I was a. So I said, all right, I'm not doing it. And I regret it because I wish I did it.

[Graham Stephan]

What was the issue with it back then?

[Mizkif]

Saudi Arabia is a bad place because.

[Jack Selby]

Women, you know, they can't drive and stuff. And they were inviting one of my.

[Mizkif]

Friends to come with me, who's a girl. I was like, damn it, dude. Like, I lost a lot of money.

[Jack Selby]

I know a lot of comedians actually just got invited to Saudi Arabia. Tim Dillon is going to Saudi Arabia.

[Graham Stephan]

Really?

[Jack Selby]

There's a massive comedian thing happening. Yeah. Like a big performance over there.

[Mizkif]

That's funny.

[Jack Selby]

Where I think the Saudi government is paying them.

[Graham Stephan]

They just want to, like, up there.

[Jack Selby]

They have so much money, and they want to, like, entertain with, like, Western entertainers.

[Mizkif]

Yeah, they have infinite cash.

[Jack Selby]

Yeah. I mean, they. They. They're doing this. They own the.

[Mizkif]

The live golf, right?

[Jack Selby]

Yeah, the massive golf thing. That's like competing with the pga. Yeah.

[Mizkif]

They just have a bunch of Money. Wow.

[Graham Stephan]

I don't know.

[Jack Selby]

I don't think they own pga. I think they own live.

[Mizkif]

Right? Yeah, but they're. Yeah, they have infinite money. I regret that, but I made 900k in one month. That was the most I ever made. Something like that. 800, 900K. I could have definitely made more back then, but I also thought back then, like, the money was gonna be infinite forever on Twitch. I always thought like, dude, money's money, whatever. Because, like, I'll have so much money and I'll have. It'll be forever. But that changed dramatically over the last few years. Advertisers have left Twitch. People don't subscribe as much. Numbers are down dramatically as Twitch goes on. So I make probably like, I used to make like 150 to $200,000 a month on Twitch. I'd say I make like anywhere between like 40 to 70k now or maybe probably even less is that. And I still run. I run double the ads I used to do.

[Jack Selby]

So that's your total earnings right now about 5, 50 bucks or $50,000 a month. Your total earnings right now are about 50, 50 bucks a month.

[Mizkif]

50 bucks? Yeah, it's about like 50 to 60k, I would say a month I make from just Twitch. And then there's sponsors where that's a lot of my. That's most of my money nowadays just through sponsors and YouTube revenue is just a little bit. But nothing crazy.

[Graham Stephan]

Does that skew your perception of money when you go from making so much to having it drop like 80%?

[Mizkif]

Oh, yeah. No, it's definitely changed me. I. Back then, money just felt like paper. I just like, I want something, I'm gonna get it. But nowadays I definitely take a second to think, right? Like I was like, I could walk to this podcast or I could take a lime scooter, but I'm just probably gonna walk. Right. Because you want to save as much money as possible for. So I am do think about money now when I just didn't before because it was endless.

[Graham Stephan]

What were you doing it.

[Mizkif]

It with it back then, Investing it. That's all I did good. I. I invested all my money. I bought boxes for Nintendo. Boxes. They didn't go up in value, but they're pretty much stayed the same. I was big in collecting before everyone else was like 2019. I loved collecting boxes, Nintendo stuff. So I have a huge collection of Nintendo. But that's not why my investments. I have been investing in the S&P 500 for years. My big thing is if it drops 1%. I always put money into it.

[Graham Stephan]

It.

[Mizkif]

I was big in Nvidia four or five years ago. I, yeah, I've, I've, I've made a lot in my investment.

[Jack Selby]

Have you made more in investing than you have from streaming?

[Mizkif]

I would say yes, if you. Because the thing is with streaming is I make a lot more for sure, but I spend a lot. Sure, you net. But my net is definitely way more through stocks. I've quadrupled my stocks in the past few years, I'd say. And last year I made like 8, 70%. I think I forget something like that.

[Graham Stephan]

Oh, because of Nvidia, probably. Right.

[Mizkif]

A lot of it was Nvidia. I, I, I was in some bitcoin ETF or fund. And then, yeah, my portfolio has just been going up a lot.

[Graham Stephan]

Dude, you gotta give Jack some tips, huh?

[Jack Selby]

Yeah, give me some Jack, dude, help him tell me what stocks to buy.

[Mizkif]

Oh, bro, I mean, you listen, I, I have a manager and then I have my own, you know, who actually tells me a lot of stock stuff. It's my chat.

[Graham Stephan]

So do you have a number in mind that you're trying to hit my numbers?

[Mizkif]

Like, I want to be able to make enough where I feel like the 5%, if I just put it in, like, low investments, I would be, like, living very lavishly. It's like 15 million, I would say. Is that number to like, truly be able to say? I would be totally okay. I don't think I'm gonna make that through streaming. I'll probably just make that through my investments. But yeah, I would say, like 15 million is what I'm looking for.

[Graham Stephan]

I feel like you would be there already investing as much as you are with Nvidia.

[Mizkif]

I'm, I'm getting there. It's not there yet. It's probably a few more years away or like a few, like two or three years away if the market keeps going well. But who knows, right? It can also be dead tomorrow. Like, it could be Trump. Could just say some stupid.

[Graham Stephan]

It's a good buying opportunity.

[Mizkif]

It is, it is. The hard part, like I said, is funds nowadays. I just bought a Lamborghini.

[Jack Selby]

If you've heard about that, making that sort of money. You said money just felt like paper. What were some of the craziest expenses you spent money on?

[Mizkif]

On? Oh, I bought dumb. I bought this World of Warcraft armor for like 10 grand for no reason. I mean, I just bought this Lamborghini that was, you know, apparently gonna be like 180 grand. I, I didn't really Have a lot of dumb expenses that I'm like, I truly am stupid for this. I don't really think so. Because a lot of things just. I like my boxes. They, they went up in value a little bit. Like, I didn't really lose anything on that. I would say my biggest waste of money was my pool. Pool. What a waste of money that was. I bought a pool in Texas. An absolute waste of money. I never used it. It never got used. It was expensive. It was cracking. The company that built it didn't even have a license. I found out at the end of it. And they don't need one, which is crazy. And now there's this huge thing going on in Texas where a lot of pools that were built in like 20, 20, 20, 22 are having this like, cancer is what it's called in the cracks of the pool. Pool, where there's actually a class action lawsuit going out for this one company because it at the mix up. So therefore everyone's pools are cracking.

[Jack Selby]

How much did you spend on the pool?

[Mizkif]

Like 200k?

[Jack Selby]

$200,000.

[Graham Stephan]

It depends how big the pool is. That's the high demand.

[Mizkif]

Lifted pool is the thing. And it's ugly. I hate my pool.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah, but that's all such a waste. Pool time, like materials were hard to come by, labor was hard to come by. And everyone wanted to pool because zero home and they would finance the pools too. Like you could put 0% down and finance the pool for the next like five years.

[Mizkif]

Yeah. Waste my money did not make my pool, my value of my house go up at all. Waste. No one used it.

[Jack Selby]

What's the most you've ever spent on a dinner?

[Mizkif]

I don't know, bro. I. I'm a very. When it comes to food, I eat simple. Like I'll eat like chicken every night.

[Jack Selby]

But I imagine, you know, you go on a date, like, what's the most you spent on a date?

[Mizkif]

I don't spend money on a date.

[Jack Selby]

What do you do on a date?

[Mizkif]

Netflix.

[Jack Selby]

That's it.

[Mizkif]

Like a first date. I mean, if I go on like, let's say we go out somewhere, how much is maybe 50 bucks? 60. But you can't bring them to rich places and like that. That's when they start getting in their head that, like, oh, he's just gonna treat me like a goo Golf like doll. You gotta go low. So I don't give, I don't show them any.

[Jack Selby]

Okay.

[Mizkif]

So how are you?

[Jack Selby]

How do you meet a girl you're going on a date with?

[Mizkif]

I usually Just go out to bars. I don't ever.

[Jack Selby]

You pick them up at a bar.

[Mizkif]

I know. I've never had Tinder in my life. I actually had Tinder in college. That's it.

[Jack Selby]

Hinge?

[Mizkif]

Nope.

[Jack Selby]

So you're saying you go to a bar, and I imagine once you're at the bar, you're getting recognized and stuff, right?

[Graham Stephan]

Right.

[Mizkif]

Here's what happens. I go to a bar, I try to find someone. I start talking to her. She's somewhat interested. My goal is to use my blue eyes to hopefully hone in like a light that someone recognizes me so I look cooler. And then usually within like a 5 to 10 minute radi or timeline, someone recognizes me and goes, you're Ms. Kiff. Bam. Now there's the conversation. Wait a minute. Are you famous or something? Yeah, it's whatever. And that's how I get laid.

[Jack Selby]

Do you go out to the bars alone or with friends?

[Mizkif]

No, I'll go with friends, but I will leave the group immediately because I don't go to bars for fun. I go to get late.

[Jack Selby]

Late. So you have the confidence then to be able to approach a girl just like that?

[Mizkif]

Yeah, of course.

[Jack Selby]

Okay, so let's say I'm a girl at a bar. Let's say you're approaching me. What do you say? I'm just like, doing my own thing, you know, I'm drinking whatever.

[Graham Stephan]

You show them your Robin Hood account?

[Mizkif]

No, I go like this.

[Graham Stephan]

Whoops.

[Jack Selby]

Oh, you. You dropped.

[Graham Stephan]

Let me see that. What?

[Jack Selby]

What is that?

[Graham Stephan]

That.

[Mizkif]

See, that's what they do. And they grab it. It's a carrot card. You dro.

[Jack Selby]

The carrot card. Oh my. You have a carrot card?

[Mizkif]

Yeah, that. The Robin Hood I had. Now it's really good.

[Graham Stephan]

The gold one?

[Mizkif]

Yeah.

[Jack Selby]

What do you get on that? 3%? You get 3% of your Robin Hood card?

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah, it's 3% on.

[Jack Selby]

It's.

[Graham Stephan]

It's a great card. Like, actually, it's a legitimately good credit card.

[Jack Selby]

Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, I'm just using like a Discover it card right now. I'm getting like a percent and a.

[Mizkif]

Half, so I'll drop the card and usually that starts the conversation. Cuz, like.

[Jack Selby]

Oh, Is that actually how you start a conversation? No, it's not how you start a conversation, I swear.

[Mizkif]

Or I'll be like, drunk and just go up to him and like, okay. Like, I met a girl the other week in Austin. We went to 6th street, and I'm like, drunk and being an idiot. And this girl had this chain that she wrapped around my neck and left it there. She's like one of my friends, and she's like, oh, look, you're my. So she was walking me around with a chain. I don't care about getting demasculated, obviously. So I'm walking around with this chain around me, and there's really hot girls sitting there eating macaroni. So I just go up to her. I'm like, yo, can you please help me get away from these people? They're freaking me out. And I basically started talking to her and like, oh, where'd you get the macaroni? And then blah, blah, blah, and then just went from there. That's hot.

[Jack Selby]

And then. Did you get recognized when you were talking to her?

[Mizkif]

Yes, the guy who made the macaroni recognized me.

[Jack Selby]

So it's pretty much off to the races at that point.

[Mizkif]

Yeah. And that's when you. You didn't even have to drop the card.

[Jack Selby]

But you have dropped a card before?

[Mizkif]

Yeah, dozens of times.

[Jack Selby]

Dozens of times. What's your success rate with girls?

[Mizkif]

Pretty high. I go up to girls. I usually have a pretty high chance of getting with them. Unless they have a boyfriend, which.

[Jack Selby]

The chances decrease a little bit.

[Mizkif]

Usually better, actually, for some reason.

[Graham Stephan]

How?

[Mizkif]

Because girls cheat.

[Jack Selby]

Do they really?

[Graham Stephan]

How. How often.

[Mizkif]

How often do they think girls cheat?

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah. Give us a. Give us a percentage.

[Mizkif]

I think isn't. Statistically girls cheat more than men? No, I think so.

[Jack Selby]

I think.

[Graham Stephan]

I think it's pretty even.

[Mizkif]

Guys don't have the opportunities that women have. Women have.

[Graham Stephan]

Though.

[Jack Selby]

That's not the case right here.

[Mizkif]

That is true. For the most part.

[Jack Selby]

I'll.

[Mizkif]

Anything.

[Jack Selby]

Anything.

[Mizkif]

Most girls have to. Yeah. After like, six shots. Every shot is lower and lower. If it's a ten, okay, take a shot. I'll nine another shot. A eight. I keep going down.

[Jack Selby]

What if you take nine shots?

[Mizkif]

You wait.

[Jack Selby]

I'm just a one, huh?

[Mizkif]

I'm just a one. As a girl, you're a one.

[Jack Selby]

Spencer, go grab some shots, man. Go grab nine shots.

[Mizkif]

As a girl, you're a one. But as a guy, you're pretty up there. You're good.

[Jack Selby]

Thanks, man. I think you're pretty cute, too.

[Mizkif]

All right. This is a finance podcast.

[Graham Stephan]

Should. I know. I feel like I should.

[Jack Selby]

So that's. That's.

[Graham Stephan]

This is.

[Jack Selby]

I mean, this is really fascinating. I'm not gonna lie. What is, like, what is your usual. Do you have a pickup line or do you just approach them and talk to them?

[Mizkif]

It's always situational. There's no pickup lines or cringe. You Just go up to them and start talking about something that's going on. Or like a sit right songs playing, you're talking about it. You, you know, you, you just have to follow what's going on around you and be present. And then that's how you talk to them. I mean, also, I'm not like some guru God demon guy. I play World of Warcraft. Like I don't know anything. I just called you. I just troll. I have confidence when I go out, so I just troll.

[Graham Stephan]

You're a great talker. That's the thing. It's like you have social practice. Yeah, yeah. Talking on stream where you could Talk straight for 20 minutes and come up with content like on the fly.

[Jack Selby]

Yes. I'm curious when, when you go with these girls, let's say that you hit it off, you know, you take her back to your whatever. How often do they then hit you up later like, hey, do you want to hang out tonight? Or is it most of the time just like that's it?

[Mizkif]

No, it's usually every time.

[Jack Selby]

And then what do you say?

[Mizkif]

I can't. With another girl. No, I'm kidding. I usually my problem that I have is like a lot of times I will. That's when you should like almost separate. But like I'll message them and then like it'll be kind of become a thing and then they're like, oh, like let's take it to the next step. And I'm always like, no, I want to just be alone.

[Jack Selby]

So you just don't want a girlfriend?

[Mizkif]

No, absolutely not.

[Jack Selby]

Eventually.

[Mizkif]

Nah, whatever.

[Jack Selby]

Do you think you're gonna be single forever?

[Mizkif]

Hopefully. I don't know.

[Jack Selby]

Why do you want to be single forever?

[Mizkif]

Because there's too many opportunities for women that I feel like monogamy is so difficult nowadays.

[Jack Selby]

What if you had like a polyamorous.

[Mizkif]

Relationship where I could. Other girls? Sure. Then hell yeah. Find me a girl that's willing to do that that literally does not care. That's like, yeah, you can go other girls. I don't want her to other guys though, though, so she's got to stay put.

[Jack Selby]

So do you think that there's any like excitement though in having like a long term exclusive relationship where you get to know her super well, she gets to know you.

[Mizkif]

Oh yeah, dude, it, it sounds like such a beautiful blessing to find someone to romanticize it, to get married to then have children. But what about when those kids are like 8 years old and they're and your wife got fat and you look uglier and Your eye bags are six feet deep and you are sleeping on separate couches now and you're running around the house constantly trying to clean the up. That's not fun.

[Graham Stephan]

It's oddly specific. It doesn't have to be that way though, right?

[Mizkif]

You could afford a.

[Graham Stephan]

Certainly could, but it could not as.

[Jack Selby]

Well, let's say 10 years out from now, you know, let's say even, you know, 20 years out from now when you're getting older, you know, maybe your knees, you're kind of a little decrepit at that point. What are you going to do if you want to, you know, settle down when you, your options have diminished because you're.

[Mizkif]

Why would my options diminish because you're older and depressed.

[Jack Selby]

Prep it.

[Mizkif]

Look at Leonardo DiCaprio. Dude, 24 year olds on the reg on this.

[Jack Selby]

So you're comparing yourself to Leonardo DiCaprio.

[Graham Stephan]

Anthony Kiedis too.

[Mizkif]

People compare me to Leonardo DiCaprio all the time. They say you look like a 50 year old version of Leonardo DiCaprio.

[Jack Selby]

They say you look like a fifty year old version.

[Mizkif]

Yeah, not the young one. I look like the 50 year old version.

[Jack Selby]

They say at a certain point money doesn't really improve your life as much.

[Mizkif]

Yeah.

[Jack Selby]

At what point would you say that.

[Mizkif]

That hit for you $2 million in.

[Jack Selby]

Net worth or an income in net worth worth?

[Mizkif]

I think if you have $2 million and you invest it properly, I don't think that's going to change your lifestyle.

[Jack Selby]

So $2 million, why will it not improve your life after that moment?

[Mizkif]

Well, I mean, at that point you can have a nice car, nice house, you can have a, a good amount of money saved for, you know, in a high yield savings account or something where you can either a, live off of it at a, you know, normal life basically. Right. And you can kind of chill out. You can probably go on a couple vacations, you can spend your money wisely but not too crazy and you can live a pretty decent life. I think after that it starts becoming like, what does it really matter? Like, I believe that, like being super rich is not what I ever care to do. I don't care to have 10 cars, I don't care to have three yachts and seven houses around the world. That sounds like a lot of work. I, I just would, you know, I would be fine with a few million and to enjoy myself. The reason why I want $15 million myself is not necessarily just for me though. So it's for my family, you know, it's for my, my future Kids, it's for, you know, Team Water. If it ever comes around again, I'll donate some money again. So, yeah, it's stuff like that. That's why I want the money. Not necessarily just for me. I don't need $15 million.

[Jack Selby]

So when all is said and done, what do you want out of the next 20 or so years out of your life? Like, why are you doing what you're doing? What are your, your main things you're gonna be focusing on?

[Mizkif]

I literally just care to make people laugh. Like my job on Twitch and my life since I was a people smile. Like, I love making people laugh. That's worth more to me than any amount of money. And that sounds so stupid, but, you know, your algorithms are probably going to think that that was an ad read. But it's not like I genuinely love making people laugh. So that's it. I just want to make people laugh, smile, entertained. That's all I care about. I don't really like the money's great, but if I'm not entertaining, I won't do it. I don't care. Yeah.

[Jack Selby]

What would you say is your biggest insecurity?

[Mizkif]

I don't know. Probably if I'm not being entertaining, I literally do it all day, every day. My, my, my personality is this just trying to entertain.

[Jack Selby]

Is there a rumor about you that a lot of people think is true, but it's completely false?

[Mizkif]

Yeah. Do you want really want to talk about that?

[Jack Selby]

Go ahead, say. Say a few. List them.

[Mizkif]

Three years ago, I got accused of covering up that basically my whole career up for a long time. That was then figured out by a judge and literally everybody within like three days that it was false. But it went so viral that everyone thinks I did it. And there's still people that think I did it and there's still people think that they talk about it. And it ruined my life. I've been traumatized. I've been suicidal from it. I've been depressed it my brain up. I feel like my brain is cracked from it forever. And it ruined my image, my reputation. My friends started hanging. Stop hanging out with me. People started ditching me. Streamer friends of mine backstabbed me and made videos or comments about it when they didn't know the truth. Yeah, that's probably the biggest thing. And in fact, it is the biggest thing.

[Jack Selby]

So it was judge. A judge settled it.

[Mizkif]

She tried to sue me and she lost. And she's like, didn't get anything because she tried to sue me for millions of dollars claiming I defamed her. It was so stupid. That happened. And I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars fighting the case, of course, because I have to get lawyers.

[Graham Stephan]

Years.

[Mizkif]

So, yeah, that was the worst thing in my life. I still hear about it to this day. I'm sure there'll be someone in your comments saying, didn't this guy cover up Salt sucks. It was bad. I'm still traumatized from it. I go to therapy. I do emdr. My brain is not the same. It never will be how it is.

[Graham Stephan]

How is your brain different afterwards?

[Mizkif]

I have. I feel like my brain cracked when it happened. I almost feel like. Like there's a before me and after that me. The before me was much more innocent and believed in people. Now I'm very jaded and I don't trust anyone. And that's a very sad life to live. When you're trying to be funny and entertaining because it's almost like you don't want to entertain because you're just like, I don't like these people or they're gonna betray me one day. Right. When you're dumb, wild and free and you believe everyone's your friend, you love to entertain because you're just like, everyone's my friend. I want to make them laugh. Half. But when you feel like a lot of those people are just not really there for you and hate you, it changes you forever. So I changed me forever in bad ways. I don't think there's a single good that came out of it.

[Jack Selby]

Do you think that eventually you'll be able to overcome it?

[Mizkif]

I mean, mentally? No. I think you'll stick with me forever at least, Especially as I'm a streamer consistently. Because I deal with the consequences of it every day.

[Jack Selby]

But what do the consequences look like?

[Mizkif]

I mean, I just see comments about it. I've. Viewers have left me over the years from it. I'm depressed a lot more. I'm more sad. Viewers see that and they're like, miss is just not happy anymore. I'm definitely better now. Like, I'm not this, like, sad that I used to be. But it's definitely something that haunts me every time I go live.

[Jack Selby]

The thing that I am so discouraged by are all of those. The people that make the YouTube videos exposing certain things without the actual facts and details. Yeah, because the. The.

[Mizkif]

The.

[Jack Selby]

They basically. People don't realize that the people that make YouTube videos saying this new scam, this new. This. This new. That they make more money if they get more views. And they can get more views by making something seem More evil. That's it. Like, it's, it's. There's no other equation than just that equation right there. And so they are incentivized to make things look absolutely awful, to paint someone as a villain because they get paid more. And not only that, that, but people idolize these people because they see them as their God who's exposing good versus evil. They see them as like the moral arbiter of truth and ethics.

[Mizkif]

Right.

[Jack Selby]

When in actuality they're just someone who's interested in promoting themsel making a lot of money and getting a lot of views. They could care less about the truth because realistically, when the truth does come out, they're never going to make a video saying, you know what? I was wrong and I caused millions of dollars of damage in this person's reputation. Yeah, they just move on and, and messed up their life. They could care less because they have all, they have millions of people every single day commenting. Thank you so much for talking about this. This is so great. And they have millions of dollars coming in the bank account. It is so twisted. I'm so over it. I, I hate to say it, kind of resent anyone that makes YouTube videos like that.

[Mizkif]

Well, it's also. The truth is never as exciting as the perception. No.

[Jack Selby]

Everything is more nuanced.

[Mizkif]

Everything is like, it's so interesting to think that, like, I did it and that, like, you're finding, exposing me and ruining my life. It's not interesting when I come out and say, here's a court that proves I didn't do it. Because they're just like, oh, what does a judge mean? Okay, here's like the entire in Reddit community saying, I didn't do it.

[Graham Stephan]

People are going to come up, they're going to twist it and say, well, that's because you spent hundreds.

[Mizkif]

Right.

[Graham Stephan]

Go away. I, I know in a lawsuit, they could claim whatever they want, they could allege whatever they want, and then you have to fight those claims. And of course, a judge could look at the facts and say, okay, well, fine, we side with you and we're gonna dismiss the case. But no one ever covers the dismissal.

[Mizkif]

Yeah, they didn't. I mean, when it got dismissed, people were just like, oh, well, you paid the judge what, you think I can pay a court? Or they don't care at that point. It's like, now we're five months after, and they're like, dude, miss, we don't care. And that's the sad truth is like, well, they don't care and why Would they? They don't care about me that much. So a lot of people's perception of me is very wrong. And it sucks because before that I was like a. You know, I act like an kind of guy, but it was like, heartwarming. But after that you're like, no, this guy's just an. So from there, my perception on the Internet has been like, this guy's just a bad dude. When it's like, I'm really not. I'm a normal dude. I am. I do care about people. I pay my taxes kind of, and, you know, I invest in Nvidia. But I just literally just try to make jokes, being idiots. Idiot.

[Graham Stephan]

The comments I think are the worst because sometimes it'll start from a rumor. Like, I've had comments about me where someone just makes up, but they are commenting the exact same comp. Because I see these. They comment the exact same comment on multiple people's videos and they all like them to the top and they make this wild claim and then people underneath them are like, holy, I had no idea about this. I had no, wow, this guy's a piece of. I had.

[Mizkif]

And.

[Graham Stephan]

But everyone latches onto that top comment as though it's fact. Because it has likes.

[Mizkif]

Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

Even though the whole thing is fake.

[Jack Selby]

It's so twisted. There was this one thing that happened on just a clip that we posted. Or maybe it was. No, it was the episode that we posted with Andrew Callahan. Someone said, these people seem so self absorbed. These people don't know what it's like to work a real hard job in their life. And then, you know, one comment was.

[Mizkif]

Like, oh, of course.

[Jack Selby]

That's because Jack's dad was actually a part of the PayPal mafia with Elon Musk. And so he has a trust fund with like $20 million in it. And Jack's just going to get that, or he's already gotten it. So he has all this family money. He doesn't know what actual hard work is. And then that had hundreds of likes. And then the. There was like, people like, oh, really? I've been watching this podcast for years. I had no idea.

[Graham Stephan]

Ever mentioned this to me.

[Jack Selby]

And that has like 30 likes. And then the one beneath it is like, oh, yeah. And on top of that, like this and this and this and this. And like, they're. They're saying that with zero evidence. And the only evidence that they have is someone else also has the name Jack Selby. And he was a part of the PayPal mafia and he has a lot of money. I have Never met this guy. I find me a picture with me and him. There's no, I don't know who the guy. We just have the same name. That's like a thing. People have the same name. Juan Gonzalez. There's probably a million of them.

[Mizkif]

Well, the problem too is it's the short form. Media is such a curse because you just make up. I mean half the time you're on Twitter or Instagram, you like really look at it and you're like, this is either AI or fake as the story. It's not even real. They just make up stories nowadays. So they do that for streamers all the time. I'll see streamers having controversies. Kai Senat they'll say it's like, dude, it's not even real. I was watching the stream. But that's where media's gone is like why I'm gonna just take the source that I see. Cause people just believe it. And that's what happened a lot with me is the Twitch community found out real quick I didn't do it. Took like a week. A lot of people were like, yeah, I watched every stream. I was a part of this all. Miz didn't do it. It's so obvious. But the clips that went viral, the videos that went viral, that's where everyone was like, I will never give Mizkif a chance because this is what he is.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah, I've tried to need to rationalize this that it's just a part of being front facing cost of doing business. It really is. And I've, I've spoken with other people privately about this and they view it as just like the cost benefit analysis of like if I'm doing this, this is what I get, I must say benefits on the back end.

[Mizkif]

Mine was, it was bad. There was 300000 live people watching me get canceled. It was bad. Like when I say there was like the whole website was about ruining my life. Life. It's the biggest drama that's ever happened on Twitch.

[Graham Stephan]

Really?

[Mizkif]

Yes, by far.

[Graham Stephan]

See, it's interesting because you're in it and you're so familiar and as, as with me, I heard about it.

[Mizkif]

Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

Okay, well I have, I didn't. You know, it was big and it.

[Mizkif]

Sucked because it's like, what can I do? Go live and say it and do it.

[Jack Selby]

But I tend to not believe the things that I see online.

[Mizkif]

Well but the problem with my thing was a lot of people that I was friends with with backstabbed me and made videos or talked about it and Promoted it. And you go back to streaming and you're. I was known as like the bridge of Twitch, the guy that knew everyone, was friends with everyone. And I'm like, I don't want to be the bridge. I hate all of you. Or I don't want to be friends with you. Or this is weird. Now we're just like, you clearly try to ruin my life. I mean, I tried offing myself because of it. So it's like, well, when that happens, you. You have a shelf that you're a wall that was up, up. And it really changed my content because it went from Miz can talk to anybody and is friends with anyone, which was true to. Miz doesn't talk to most streamers and he really does not want to. And it definitely made me lose viewers, made me lose confidence, made me lose followers, made me lose everything from years. I mean, this happened three years ago almost to the day, and it's still around. It's bad. Don't be wrong. Most the Internet doesn't even care about it anymore because they're like, dude, Trump's president, who cares? Or like, they don't give a. Most people probably don't even know about it anymore because the cycle of the Internet happens. Yeah. Or they were like, what did he do again? But no, that hurt me real bad. My. Mainly what it hurt is my personal life hurt my mental. And that just.

[Graham Stephan]

You. Yeah.

[Mizkif]

Because any drama or real issue nowadays, like, dude, you did something horrible. Okay. If you don't care and you just keep going like, there's so much news nowadays that happens. It doesn't matter anymore. Cancel culture is kind of dead. But back then it was different because when my guy. I got canceled, I got kicked out of my org for nine months for. For nine weeks. I lost all my sponsors. So they were reporting on that. They're like, Ms. Lost Game Fuel Miz lost AT&T Fuels the fire. Yeah, dude. And they love it where they're like, holy, we're doing something. We're ruining Mrs. Life is awesome. When like, I. It just kept snowballing to the point where like, yeah, it. It destroyed me. I went live and I basically had half the followers, half the subs and had to rebuild. And that's why I like the car content, because it's me getting into a new audience that doesn't even know who the I am, which is nice. It's not like. It's like I'm trying to hide from my past, but it's just a very unfortunate thing that's Hard to explain. Sucks.

[Jack Selby]

Yeah, that does suck that you're still kind of paying for it.

[Mizkif]

Especially when I don't get sponsors a lot of times because of that. It went all around the industry. Everyone's like, yeah, he did that. Or like, Triple H sponsors, or place like AT&T. And I was like, in this big AT&T Annihilator cup every year. Paid 100, 150k every time. It was good content. Nope. They still don't want to work with me because they're like, you. You have a bad rep. Yep. It's like. Yep. So what we're gonna do last is.

[Jack Selby]

A streamer tier list that we've procured.

[Mizkif]

I'm gonna grab my computer, put the.

[Jack Selby]

Laptop on the table, and you're gonna let us know your honest thoughts about these streamers. Walk us through who you're, who you're grading and what you're grading them as.

[Graham Stephan]

Okay.

[Mizkif]

I mean, I am a prolific twitch streamer viewer. Like, I watch streamers all day. It's all I do. So, like, I can actually tell you probably more than almost any other streamer who I think is actually a good streamer and who's not cool. I would say Hassan Piker is the worst streamer of all time. I'm kidding. I think Hassan is actually. I would put him in the C category. I think Hassan is a great with politics. He's excellent. He's on time. He's every single day. This is removing politics, obviously. He's always working. He's always doing more. He's progressing. He's very passionate. But one thing Hassan sucks at is when he has guests on his stream, he just cannot talk to them a lot of times. And he's very awkward. And then something. Also, Hasan's not good at that IRL streaming. He sucks. He's boring. He doesn't try. He just looks at his phone half the time. So I put Hassan in C. I think Hassan is a really good political streamer, though.

[Jack Selby]

So where would you put him in terms of attractive level?

[Mizkif]

Hassan? Yeah, he was hotter, like, three years ago. What? True. I would probably put Hassan at, like, Hassan. Hassan is a very objectively attractive guy.

[Jack Selby]

That's like someone went outside and did. Huh?

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Jack Selby]

After you said he was already three years ago.

[Graham Stephan]

What? What? Every time you say that, just siren. What do you think went wrong?

[Jack Selby]

Why do you think he went down in attractiveness?

[Mizkif]

Because he got more stressed and you can just see his gray hairs popping up every two seconds now. Like, he's just definitely a stress ball. I Can just look at the guy or look at live stream fills. All right, Vitality. I would put Vitality as a F tier streamer. No, I put him a D. The reason why he's D is the problem with him as a streamer is. Is he's very entertaining, but he's not long lasting. Right. So why as a streamer you want to make sure that you can last longer than a few months or even a year. And the things with Vitalis, his brand can't last that long because he's just put such ridiculous content out there that if he goes to anything else, people aren't going to watch. Right. So Vitali is doing like pranks or figuring stuff out or trying to find pedophiles, whatever it may be. You can't go and find play Runescape or. Well, you might be able to, but you can't play most games. That's not how it works. So longevity wise, I put Vitality as a D and obviously as nowadays he's an F. But me, myself, I would put myself in high A. I do think I'm definitely one of the better streamers on Twitch. I think I'm one of the most entertaining streamers on Twitch. My big problem that I have a lot of times is I would get. I get bored very easily and I don't like content. And also I think I've been limited over the years because of that drama that happened to me. And I also think I. Yeah, I just get stressed and then I get pissed and I'm not in a good mood. Johnny Somali is an F. Like. Like this is not even an option. I'll just take Jack Daughtry and put him lower than that. Somehow I think Jack Thoughtry is just the worst person ever when it comes to streaming. He sucks at it. Like Johnny Swallow sucks too. And he's terrible. But Jack. Jack Darby doesn't even look at his stream. He just streams himself. And I'm like, dude, I. Soulja Boy can do that. No one else. Ludwig. I would put Ludwig in A. I think Ludwig is a good streamer. Put Lubigan B. I think Lubbock is a good streamer, but I think He's a better YouTuber. Right? There's a difference. I think as a streamer, I would say that he's not as strong, but I think as a YouTuber, Ludwig is probably the strongest. Like if you gave me who's the best streamer YouTuber, probably Ludwig. I think he's definitely figured that game out really well. Speed is in my opinion One of the greatest streamers of all time. I think Speed is really good in any situation. He's charismatic, he's energetic. He's doing stuff that no one did, which is traveling and using that traveling to grow his brand. Genius idea from him. From taking soccer and utilizing that to grow a completely new audience. And now that he's a spectacle whenever he goes around the world. He's athletic, he's talented, he's young as. I think Speed is one of the greatest streamers, if not the greatest streamer of all time. I don't even know who this guy is. I've just seen him in twitch clips and YouTube clips and that tells you I don't care. So who is it? The dude with a sailor hat, Joshua Block.

[Jack Selby]

Oh, that's World of T shirts.

[Mizkif]

Oh, the dude that bites people.

[Jack Selby]

I think he bought one bit one person.

[Mizkif]

That's pretty entertaining. I'll put him in day. I think that's pretty good Pokey.

[Graham Stephan]

Why not see, huh? Why not see for Josh? He's the only one that that's bit someone as far as I'm aware.

[Mizkif]

Yeah, it's pretty original. It's pretty good. But I just think that like, he's a one. Like, you just watch him and you're like, oh, wow, he's autistic and bites people. It's like having like a pidgey and all it can do is use a like one tackle. Right. Like you needed to have new abilities and Josh literally just has.

[Jack Selby]

So what else do you think? If you're talking to Josh right now, what do you think he. What do you recommend he does? Increases arsenal.

[Mizkif]

I would probably. If I were Josh, I would get a mouth clamp. I don't know. I would be like, dude, stop biting everybody.

[Jack Selby]

Like, but then he's a zero trick pony.

[Mizkif]

There you go. He sucks. I'm going to say Josh is a streamer. He just bites people and runs around and acts autistic. Like, he acts autistic. He is definitely autistic.

[Graham Stephan]

But the bite, I don't think it's an act.

[Mizkif]

It's not.

[Graham Stephan]

No.

[Mizkif]

Josh is not an act. Josh is a biter. But okay. Pokimane, I'd put probably as a low seam. I don't think Pokimane's that good of a streamer. Tired.

[Jack Selby]

I. I don't really watch honestly streams, like, I don't watch Twitch, so I don't really know.

[Mizkif]

Yeah, I. I mean, she's good at business, sure, but she's just as a streamer. She's whatever. I. I mean I think she's just jaded and tired from eight years of getting. Getting beat the out of on streaming. I think she just. Yeah, I like is very reserved in a lot of ways nowadays compared to what she used to be like and even then she just was like she's much more of like a personality outside of Twitch. She's a star. You know, she's pokimane. She's a Instagram Twitter tick tock. I feel like that's much more her speed when I think streaming is much more just a relaxed time for her and chill. So I just put her at circumstances myself again. Definitely have a big ego. I'd put myself yet again above everyone else at this point. Why can't I? There. I'm a double A streamer. Lacy. Lacy. Lacy. I think Lacy's really good. I think Lacey's a really good streamer. I think he's very funny. I think he's good with his chat. I think he's entertaining in general. He knows how to farm cliffs and use his community. He's got good ideas. I like his cameraman a lot. I think Lacy goes above me. I think Lacy's a really good streamer right now. He's very, he's very witty. Neon as a streamer. I'd probably put him in C. I, I don't. I don't know his content at all. I can't really judge him. No idea. Agent. Agent's a good streamer. I think Agent has really good ideas and a good team. I would put Agent. Agent. I put. I put Agent A. I think Agent's actually a really good streamer. Tim the tap man is one of the goats of streaming. He's always been one of the goats of streaming. He is a high A in my opinion. He is up there. Tim is really good at entertaining and he's got a great community and he's just always doing good. I like Tim Aiden Ross.

[Graham Stephan]

Okay.

[Mizkif]

I think Aiden Ross in my opinion was an insanely good streamer and I think nowadays he's very mentally and his brain is fried and I think he's jaded and tired. So I would put Aiden as a for sure but I think Aiden at one point was S and I think his mental him up so he's not there. Kai Sanat. I would put Kai in a. No, I put him in a. This Kai is definitely one of the best streamers. His. His production team's insane. I. I mean they go balls to the wall with everything. He clearly produces content. He knows how to Engage with his guests. He's a really good streamer and his team just carries him so hard. As well as him being a really good entertainer. Jason the Ween. Jason's a really good streamer. His community's really strong. I think Jason has a lot of potential to grow in audiences that are new. Which I think is more interesting on Twitch, which is more K pop and Asian style streaming rather than just like the normal mundane stuff. I would probably put Jason high A. I'd probably put him like right here. Who's this? Who that?

[Jack Selby]

You don't know Togi.

[Mizkif]

No, really Skip Toge. Who's Toby?

[Graham Stephan]

Put him S tier.

[Mizkif]

Who that?

[Graham Stephan]

He does these like crazy fun gambling streams. But he's like to be your favorite. Oh, and. And steroids and gambling are his thing.

[Mizkif]

Say no more. He's top best. He is Ninja. Okay. Ninja. Ninja. He still's got the low taper fade meme. Like I still think Ninja does well. I think he's a great streamer because he's very loud and energetic. I would put Ninja probably in the B. I think Ninja is actually a good streamer for sure. XQC X is a. I think he's probably like right next to me. I think XQC was insane, but he's definitely more tired now. And that's just how it goes from doing this for nine years. But he's still in my opinion, one of the greatest streamers. He knows what he's doing. This is just basically robotic to him because he's just done it for so long. He knows what to do to farm. But I would put him. He was at one point. I put him in a now because I think his content, he just is more like chill compared to when he was going very hard in streaming. I think he's definitely taken a step back for sure. And Fousley. Fousley is honestly straight up when he's on. He's. His streams were great when he was on and good content. It was because you just never know what the he's going to say and you need to.

[Jack Selby]

I think he's one of the mo. The best entertainers, honestly of our gener.

[Graham Stephan]

It was so funny. I never watch any live streams ever. I watched some of Fousey's. Yeah. Because of how crazy it was. And he was like in a hotel, like calling the police for something and I was just like sitting there glued to the. Like to the screen. I couldn't believe it.

[Mizkif]

Yeah. He's genuinely a great entertainer. Like I. I think he's nuts but as an entertainer, you. The beauty of him is, the reason why he's so good is you need to watch what's gonna happen next. You truly don't know what's gonna happen. With a lot of streaming nowadays, you know what's gonna happen because. Because it's planned. It's. I'm going to play peak with friends. Like, okay, I don't really need to watch this. Nothing's going to happen. No Interesting thing to the point where I need to be here for four hours. Yeah. Fuzzy could be in jail in 20 minutes. You don't know, right? Yeah. But that's such an exciting thing.

[Graham Stephan]

Is that just mental instability, though?

[Mizkif]

I think it's both mental instability and he's just a good entertainer. I mean, he's been in this for 15 years. He just knows what to do to entertain. So I would say he. He's 100% there. I. He's a. That's. That's good content, I would say. That's my list.

[Graham Stephan]

Love it.

[Jack Selby]

It's good.

[Graham Stephan]

Thank you.

[Jack Selby]

Where'd you put Stable Ronaldo?

[Mizkif]

Ron? I think Ron, as a streamer is an S. I think he's an S right now. I think Ron's in his prime. I think he's funny. Good. He's entertaining, as he knows. He's very witty. He knows what to say. I'd put Ron in S tier if you put Ron there. I thought that was Ron the steroid.

[Jack Selby]

Guy, but they kind of look similar.

[Mizkif]

Yeah, I've been Ron and S tier for sure.

[Jack Selby]

Miz Kiff, thank you so much for coming on. The iced coffee hour really means a lot. I mean, you gave us a lot of your time, so.

[Mizkif]

Yeah. This normally. How long these things go?

[Jack Selby]

This is a little on the longer end.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Jack Selby]

We're usually about two hours.

[Graham Stephan]

We're at three hours and some change. Yeah.

[Mizkif]

Yeah.

[Jack Selby]

So thank you guys very much for watching. If you made it to the end. Really appreciate it. Seriously, we would not be here if not for you. Thank you to White Glove Estates also.

[Graham Stephan]

They really hook it up for this. You have no idea how nice it is to have, like, a place that we could film in Los Angeles. They have more of them.

[Jack Selby]

Yeah, this is all them. We'll link them down below so you guys can click on their link in the description if you're interested. If you're interested.

[Graham Stephan]

Home remodeling, staging, things like this. They do it.

[Mizkif]

Word.

[Jack Selby]

Thank you guys so much for watching. Till next time. Till next time.

[Mizkif]

Bye.