Host 1 (Interviewer) (2:50)

Thank you. Curious, how much debt do you have?

Robert Kiyosaki (2:54)

One billion? Two?

Host 1 (Interviewer) (2:56)

Does that ever make you nervous? Are you ever worried about defaulting on the debt?

Robert Kiyosaki (3:03)

Gets me a sexually stimulated now I'll tell You. Why? Okay, you owe the bank $20 million and you can't pay it back. You got a problem. But you owe the bank a billion dollars and you can't pay it back. Is there a problem?

Host 1 (Interviewer) (3:22)

How do they give you a billion dollars?

Robert Kiyosaki (3:25)

Real estate.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (3:26)

So, but if you. If you say that you owe me a billion dollars, that's your problem. You know, what if the bank sees that you're saying that, or they, like, you know, they would be like, okay, well, maybe we should stop lending this guy money. It is that just the reality of the situation, and everyone at that level knows that if you default, it's not your problem, but it's the banks.

Robert Kiyosaki (3:47)

Well, you have to learn. It's a process. You learn. You know, like I. The reason I wrote Rich Dad, Poor dad is they don't teach us anything about money. And so when I was a kid, I was as Rich dad taught me playing Monopoly. And he says, one of the first persons on your team is your banker. So this is in Hawaii, Waikiki. And I would go with him. I'm a kid, you know. And he'd be talking to his banker. So his banker understood his strategies, how he was doing things, never lied to him, had his financials. The average American doesn't have financials. If you don't have financials, you know, income statement, balance sheet, statement of cash flow, which is what I wrote about rich dad, poor dad, bank won't lend you any money. They give you a credit card. So you've got to play the game or speak the language of a banker. So as a young man, I sat there listening to Beverage dad talk to his banker. And I go, holy mackerel. And his job was kind of stretch him. And I said, look, I just need another million. I said, another million. And my old man, poor dad, you know, he go, you can't even get a credit card, but you have to have a banker on your team. It's very, you know, business is a team sport. My accountant, my attorney, my banker, they're on my team.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (5:12)

Why would you say your advice is so controversial? Why do people see it as something way out of the norm?

Robert Kiyosaki (5:19)

And. Well, when I wrote Rich Dad, Poor dad came out in 97, I created my cash flow board game, and nobody would buy it. So being an entrepreneur, I said, I better do something pretty quickly here. Sat out Rich dad, poor dad in 97. And of course, they all turned me down. So you know what you're talking about. I said, your house is not an asset. I caught hell for that one Then I said, savers are losers and the rich don't work for money. So those three statements in rich dad, poor dad. I mean, I was catching hell from everywhere from that I somewhere. I was living not too far from here and I'm on the first time I'm on local tv. And I said, your house is not an asset. I got attacked by a bunch of these older women. Should I say our house is an asset? Yours may not be, but if you're red rich dad, poor dad. Assets are defined by cash flow. If cash is flowing into you, it's an asset. If cash is flowing out, it's a liability. It's called financial literacy. Can you read numbers? Can you speak the language of money? But most, there's no financial education. So that these older women be sitting. How dare you say that? And they're friends of mine. How dare you say that house is not an asset. I said, ma', am, how much does this cost you a month? I don't care what you say. It's so ingrained. You have to buy a house. Look at most guys, as you know, the young sports stars, they make, you know, get a million dollar bonus. What do they buy first, the house. You know, it's so programmed into you.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (7:11)

So how do you simply determine then what is good debt and what is bad debt?

Robert Kiyosaki (7:15)

Debt that makes you rich and debt that makes you poor.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (7:18)

Is there an interest rate though that you wouldn't pay? Like if they offer you debt at 20%, would that just be too much?

Host 2 (Interviewer) (7:27)

You take a debt at 20%?

Robert Kiyosaki (7:28)

It depends. Yeah, depends on how tough situation you're in. It's a game. I played monopoly. Play Monopoly. Four green houses, 1031 Red Hotel. Most people never get past the first house. They only have no houses. To get to the second house, you get, you know, one house, you get $10. Second house, you get $20. Third house, you get $3, $34, $40 hotel, 60. Well, it's a quantum leap from four houses to that hotel. I own hotels in town. I just play Monopoly. It's not that hard to do.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (8:09)

What do you think is the biggest misconception people have about you?

Robert Kiyosaki (8:12)

I'm a nice guy.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (8:14)

No, they think you're a nice guy. And you're not?

Robert Kiyosaki (8:16)

I'm an really? Oh, God. I'm a US Marine. Well, you cross me? I on you suit.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (8:26)

Well, you've been nothing but a nice person to us.

Robert Kiyosaki (8:28)

Well, because you guys are nice guys too, you know, but boy, would you, you know, this respect. You guys are very respectful. You Understand this your subject. You're successful at what you do. I was. I'm glad you brought that up because it's the last two Uber rides I had. I almost got into a fist fight with the driver.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (8:48)

Why?

Robert Kiyosaki (8:50)

They're lazy. This one Uber guy picks me up, he goes, hey, did you write the. You write that book? I said, yeah. I said, no, no, no. He goes, did you read it? He goes, nah, I don't have time. Tell me what I should do.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (9:03)

He said that?

Robert Kiyosaki (9:04)

He said, do you think I just get rich? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I said, look, I study all the time. Do you study? He goes, no, I'm busy working. So you're a poor working class guy.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (9:16)

You should have him buy your audiobook, though. They could listen to it in the car.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (9:19)

Yeah, you could have made a few dollars if you just upsold them your book right then and there.

Robert Kiyosaki (9:23)

I don'. For lazy people.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (9:25)

I'm curious.

Robert Kiyosaki (9:26)

I don't have time for lazy people. It's easier to be lazy than productive. There's a.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (9:32)

Okay, there's a couple interesting things there. But I, I do want to lean into the idea that a lot of wealthy people share that in the beginning you need to do a lot and think a little bit less. And then once you start making a lot of money and you have a lot of people under you or you're, you're a high level operator, then you need to think more and do less. And your more money is made from your decisions instead of the actual work that you're putting in. Do you think in the beginning that you should just continue and work hard? When do you start, like, really thinking about these things?

Robert Kiyosaki (10:03)

The thing that happened for me was I went to military school. I got, I flunked out of high school twice because I can't write. Imagine that I'm an international best selling writer. But it wasn't that I couldn't write. The teachers didn't like what I was writing. Those bastards. So I, I said this, I said, this school is a waste of time for me. Said, I want to be rich and you guys are poor. Why would I want to learn from poor people? My school teachers gave me an F for that. So I got nominations to Naval Academy, U.S. merchant Marine Academy. I took Merchant Marine Academy. My study was oil. You know how much money I made from oil?

Host 1 (Interviewer) (10:47)

How much?

Robert Kiyosaki (10:48)

Lots. It's cash flow. I drill in oil well. Oil well will produce for 40 years. So I'll invest, let's say $2 million in a partnership to drill for oil someplace in North Dakota or, you know, Texas. And that oil well pumps oil for 20 to 30 years and I pay no taxes. That's a lot better than paying that stupid stock market look. My point here is this. There's a million ways you can get rich as young guys like you find a way that works for you. Like Warren Buffett. I could never follow that guy. I personally don't like what Warren Buffett says, but he's successful at it. But I don't play the stock market. Waste of time for me. So I draw for oil and I get that. And then I buy apartment houses with my money from my oil. And I get. And the apartment houses throw cash flow every single month. And I have apartment houses because I use 100% debt to finance the apartment houses so that I pay no taxes. It's only a game. It's sheer monopoly. Then I buy a hotel.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (12:02)

Do you think the average person should be investing in stocks? Or who do you think should be investing in stocks?

Robert Kiyosaki (12:08)

The best advice for the average person is don't be average. Get your ass. The stock market and the 401k is set up for losers. You want to be a loser, get a 401k.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (12:19)

Why do you not want to invest in stocks? Is that because of tax implications?

Robert Kiyosaki (12:24)

Control. I'm an entrepreneur, not a fricking loser. I control the oil well, I control the apartment houses, I control the hotels.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (12:37)

But isn't some of that dictated also by the city and the governance?

Robert Kiyosaki (12:40)

A little bit? Yeah, sure. You gotta play the game. The point here is most people are losers because they're lazy. America's too easy.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (12:51)

When do you think it made the switch that people have become lazier over time?

Robert Kiyosaki (12:57)

Good economy, debt. There's 200 million Americans on some kind of government welfare right now. That's almost half. Over half the. Half the population. And they're all on all counting on what you call that stuff, Social Security. It's bankrupt. America's bankruptcy. America loses 2 trillion a year. So we collect, let's say 5 trillion in taxes, but we spend 7 trillion in expenses. We spend more on debt than we do on weapons. And we're fighting a war in the Middle east. And we're fighting that place in Ukraine. We're going bust. We're bankrupt. So that's why I say I don't save this. I always carry this around. Here's $10. And here's a 1964 coin. Which one do you want? This is 50 cents. This is $10. The average American goes for the 10 bucks. This is worth more because this is real money. This is fake. They go for fake money all day long. It's really, really Sad. This in 10 years will be worth 20 of that. You know what I mean? Because they keep printing money. Why don't our schools teach us that? Because our school teachers are Marxists. They're Marxist and not bad people. They're just Marxists. I'm a capitalist, okay? Big difference.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (14:38)

You would do great if you went on the street and you asked people, would you want $10 here or this 50 cent piece? And you see what people say.

Robert Kiyosaki (14:46)

I do it all the time.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (14:47)

They don't realize that that's silver.

Robert Kiyosaki (14:49)

I do. They don't know the difference.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (14:51)

How often do people take the silver?

Robert Kiyosaki (14:54)

None. This is worth more.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (15:00)

You say that they don't teach you this in school? I'm curious, why is this not a part of the curriculum? People always speculate they're keeping you poor. They want you to stay poor. They don't want you to understand investing, buying assets instead of buying liabilities. Who are these people that don't want you to become wealthy? Do you think they exist?

Robert Kiyosaki (15:19)

I wrote a book called the Capitalist Manifesto. One of the first books I went to Military School, U.S. merchant Marine Academy. Our first book we had to read was a Communist Manifesto. I recommend everybody read the Communist Manifesto and you'll find out that most of your friends are communists. They believe in paying income tax and a whole bunch of other things. So I went to military school, I read the Communist Manifesto, and I was curious at that. But I was 18 years old. Then I found out in 1930, Columbia University, that Communist organization invited Marxist teachers from the Frankfurt School in Germany to come to Columbia's Teachers College to teach teachers, American teachers, Marxism. So our school system is Marxist, if you can understand that. I mean, what, they told you to pay taxes? You know what Marxist taxation is essential for the spread of communism. They also said most schoolteachers are labor union people. What Mark said was, workers of the world, unite. When I read the Communist Manifesto, it's only a small little book. I went, my family's Communist. They're good people. Don't get me wrong. You know, you see them on the street. Well, there's Communists over there, but they both. They pay taxes. I don't pay taxes.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (16:49)

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Host 1 (Interviewer) (18:17)

How would the government run, though, if they were not collecting taxes? Because there would have to be money coming from somewhere to pay for things like roads and city street lights and things like this.

Robert Kiyosaki (18:28)

Not my problem. No, I mean, they'll figure it out. I mean, communists, they just extract your money from the top down. You know, Russia runs. They. They're communist. The point is, people don't know they're educated by communists. I was. I was at Arizona State University. It was the fourth largest schools in America. I was on stage with a guy named Charlie Kirk. They came after us because we were teaching capitalism. So if you understand that, I would say 80% of all school teachers are, at the core, Marxist. They just don't know it. They pay tax. They belong to the teachers union. What's the biggest union in America? The nea. National Education Association. National Extortion Association. Our test scores are going down. Teacher salary is going up if the.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (19:24)

Average person knows nothing about money. If you could go in and rewrite the school's curriculum to teach financial literacy on how to invest, what are the topics?

Robert Kiyosaki (19:34)

I already did. That's called Rich Dad, Poor Dad.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (19:36)

What would you say after I did that? I agree.

Robert Kiyosaki (19:39)

I've read Rich dad and that's why that lazy son of a Uber driver says, yeah, I got your book. I don't have time to read it. I said, the problem is they're lazy. They're hard working poor people. There's nothing wrong with being a hard working poor person. You guys had that guy on I was talking to you about, he was, he hung out with Richard Branson on Necker island and all this. He says there's different kinds of poor and different kinds of rich. That was a great program you guys had. I sat there listening. I went. So he says, you can be alt, you can be poor, but you can be ultra poor also. And you can be rich and you can be ultra rich. And this guy was, what was his name? He was Sahil Bloom, man.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (20:23)

He was talking about the optimal rich to be. Because if you get ultra rich, you have to question are people around you because of what you have. But if you're rich, you have access to things without being over the top.

Robert Kiyosaki (20:35)

Yeah, he was very good. Yeah, you're great. Great program you guys had. So I listened to that. I learned a lot of untested. I was coming on your show, I better find out what you guys are about here. So you guys are into educating and illumination, basically putting the light on a subject. But when he says there's, you know, some people, they get so rich it ruins their lives. I don't have that problem. I like because getting rich is a game to me. That's all it is.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (21:04)

So where do people go wrong? Where they get rich and it ruins their life? What makes you different and how have you gone about that?

Robert Kiyosaki (21:10)

I think they sell their soul. Well, have a soul. There's a price on it and I just don't do that.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (21:19)

You've said savers are losers. That's one of my favorite quotes of yours. I'm curious, when you say savers or losers, what is the average person, the person that doesn't have a lot of extra money at the end of the month supposed to do, then save Real.

Robert Kiyosaki (21:39)

Silver today is 40, 45 bucks, I think.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (21:43)

Yeah.

Robert Kiyosaki (21:45)

Gold is 3500. I started saving this when it was a dollar. I have boxes of silver and I have boxes of gold. I Own gold mines. I took it. I've taken two gold mines public. One on Toronto Stock Exchange, one on New York Stock Exchange. I believe in sound money. I don't work for this fake garbage. But that's what schools teach you to do. This is not money. This is called toilet paper. And they can print as much as they like of it. And it's killing us right now. It's killing this country. So I was just talking to you. I was in Zimbabwe last week. I was in Zimbabwe in 2002. You know when guys may have seen them was, here's 100 trillion Zimbabwe dollars. Everyone's laughing at Zimbabwe. So I was in Zimbabwe in 2002. I'm a hunter. I'm a politically incorrect hunter. So I'm out there in Zimbabwe, I'm looking at this stuff. And the next year I went back again. The Zim dollar collapsed. And I'm in a truck, a hunting truck. And these truckload full of Black guys with AK47s, they're called war vets. Why they call them that, I don't know. They came up, they just went like this. All we can do is this. When the currency collapses, the economy collapsed. So that's why I say to Americans, I said, america is doing exactly the same thing Zimbabwe is doing now. We print money to pay our bills. There's no difference between a Zim dollar and a US dollar. So I warn people all the time, don't save this, save silver. Bitcoin, ethereum. Go for something that's not printed by the US Government. Like I said, I don't have oil stocks, but I own oil wells. And every month they pump oil. Guess what? They use it. Every month. Every month they send me a check. And because I'm in a vital industry, oil, I pay no tax. You don't have to. You know, my friends all live. My friends live in Vegas or Puerto Rico. I said, if you knew the tax law, you wouldn't have to live in Puerto Rico or Vegas because the tax laws are written for capitalists. If you're not a capitalist, you pay tax.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (24:24)

Do you invest in anything that you can't get depreciation on? Because I know with oil you could depreciate it. Real estate, you could depreciate it. How do you decide where to allocate your money? And at what point do you buy something like bitcoin or gold or silver?

Robert Kiyosaki (24:39)

I'm always moving money. My problem is too much money. If you just buy assets. Rich don't work for money. What the rich work for assets. So my first property I was, was 1974, getting out of the Marine Corps. I was a pilot. All my friends went on to become pilots for the pension. Guess what happened to all their pensions? Gone. They took all the pensions of the pilots. Bunch of losers. But I'm not going to fall into that trap. So it's a 74. So I just, at that point I took real estate courses, stock courses, technical trading. I go to seminars and you know what I meant. These little seminars and goofy things like that. Around Texas, Honolulu, I meet guys like you. That's where I met my friends. There were people that were actually interested in learning about money and we became really good friends. And my best friend and I became billionaires. I met him at a seminar, you know, let's kick some ass. But if you hang out with losers and poor people, that's your choice. And they're probably good people. Am I wrong? You know, like that Uber driver in his head, I'm quite sure he has a tape or a cassette playing. I'm a good, working, hard, working poor man. Unless he changes that tape. He's a hardworking poor man. I said, have you read my book? He says, no, I don't have time. But he has time to drive an Uber, God bless him. I like Uber, you know, saves me from DWI chargers and all that stuff. It's a great service, it's fantastic. But if a person doesn't change the tape up here. So that's why you read books and study and go to seminars and YouTube and what you guys are doing. Listen in.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (26:36)

So at this point, where do you make most of your income from?

Robert Kiyosaki (26:39)

Just property and oil and I make a lot of money off of. I've been buying gold since I was not a kid, but you know, basically. So I just paid for my house. They wanted four and a half million for it. So I just took out some gold from my safe, paid for it. The gold only cost me 450,000. The house was 4.5 million. But because I saved gold coins, so I only paid 450 for the gold. But over the years it went to 4.5, so I paid for that. And man, I only hang out with friends who are rich. I mean, I mean I'm selective on that.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (27:28)

Yeah.

Robert Kiyosaki (27:29)

But we just get along. We're always doing deals together. So my other friend, Kenny McElroy, one of the smartest real estate guys I know, you know, he's doing billboards now. I said, Kenny, what the heck are you doing billboards? He says, Bonus depreciation. So that means you put a hundred thousand to a billboard, right? You might get 5,500,000 depreciation. So by hanging out with smart guys, I get richer. And he and I, and Ken and I are always studying together. We get together on a regular basis and we study. So when I was with those two Uber drivers, I mean, they just pissed me off the other day. Well, I don't have time, man. Tell me what, tell me, tell me what I should do, you know, what.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (28:17)

Percentage of people would you say have that mindset that they just don't have time?

Robert Kiyosaki (28:22)

Lazy people.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (28:23)

What percentage of the US 95%. And what separates them from the five?

Robert Kiyosaki (28:29)

That was your, that guy. Who was that guy?

Host 1 (Interviewer) (28:31)

Saw Hill Bloom.

Robert Kiyosaki (28:33)

Everybody should listen to that guy.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (28:34)

I'm going to link to that episode down below. Our episode with Sawhill.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (28:37)

Highly. Right. We just posted it. So it's a brand new episode, so chances are you probably haven't seen it yet. So go and see it.

Robert Kiyosaki (28:42)

It's fantastic. Thank you, thank you. Because it's only a choice. Well, how much? People say, well, how much is enough? I said, I don't think you get it. I go, what do you mean? Say they think money is about the dollar amount. To me, it's the game. I play Monopoly, four greenhouses, red hotel oil wells. It's just a game to me. It's not serious.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (29:12)

What's your best investment that you've ever made?

Robert Kiyosaki (29:15)

I wrote a book, sold 45 million copies of it. That's the biggest asset I've ever made.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (29:23)

How much did you make from the book?

Robert Kiyosaki (29:25)

I don't know. I don't. I have accountants do that shit for me. I'm always moving money, I'm always moving my money into the next thing, next thing. So you can ask my friends, you know, like Kenny McElroy, he says, hey, when's that, when's that billboard deal coming? Coming together. Good, good, good. Another friend, man. When's this property coming together? Good, good, good Entrepreneurs. I don't invest on Wall Street.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (29:56)

Have you ever lost money with an investment? And what's been your worst investment?

Robert Kiyosaki (30:01)

My own. My own company. But losing is part of winning. I think that's the thing that gets most people, because most freaking school teachers tell you, don't make mistakes. The reason school teachers are poor is we don't learn unless you make mistakes. You know, I, I flew for the U. S. Marine Corps and as we, as we got ready to fly into Vietnam, I was in Camp Pendleton getting ready to go through the Gunship. Every day we had to practice crashing. Three to five times a day we practice crashing. So when it. Because the odds are you're gonna crash. So I went down three times in Vietnam, but every time the engine quit or I got, you know, automatic. There's a book called the Big Print by Lawrence Lepard. Everybody should read the Big Print. It talks about traditional education versus military education. I went to military school. First one, first word we learned at military school, mission. What's your mission? So he talks about. Lepard talks about. In military school, you're always preparing for something to go wrong. That is very, very true. Whereas in traditional school, oh, everything's, you know, sunshine and roses. In a perfect world, this will happen, but you cannot handle it like that. First time I lost my engine. I tell you, it's terrifying. We're flying a strike into Vietnam. I think it's got 18 rockets on it, machine crew, boxes of ammo. We're all strapped in. We got leather, we got vests. We're heaviest. That engine quit. The reason pilots die is they pull back. What we're trained to do as Marine Corps pilots. When that engine quits, you push forward. They call out, look. You look at the eyes of death. So I was only about 1500ft when that engine quit. Like, boom. Nose forward, cut power. The team was already prepared. Rockets were being kicked out, cannons were, some ammunition kicked out, that vest going off, and all this boom into the water. I went over to Vietnam with 16 men. Lieutenant Kiyosaki, I came back with 16 men, all alive, all in one piece. Because we prepare for bad times, although really quick.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (32:50)

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Host 2 (Interviewer) (34:12)

Opus Clip isn't just a clipping tool anymore though. It's a full AI powered video editor built for creators. It can automatically pull in your long form YouTube videos, find the best moments, add captions, B roll, and even schedule clips to post while you're away. It's like having a full blown editing team, but powered by AI. Top creators like Jubilee and Dharman are already using it. In fact, we already use it on the Ice Coffee Hour. If you see this clip that Togi's reacting to right now, it was made by Opus Clip. So sign up today. All you have to do is go to Opus Pro slash Iced Coffee Hour to get started again. That is Opus Pro slash Iced Coffee Hour. Or click the link down below in the description. Seriously guys, I could not recommend it more. Thank you so much to Opus Clip for sponsoring this episode. What is the most important failure you've experienced?

Robert Kiyosaki (34:52)

I was court martialed twice. And you ever see that movie A Few Good Men with Nicholson?

Host 1 (Interviewer) (34:58)

It's been a long time.

Robert Kiyosaki (34:59)

Yeah, yeah, he's Colonel Jessup. He goes, you can't handle the truth. So what I was doing, for some reason I like pretty women. You know, I just find them very attractive. I always got in trouble with my helicopter and pretty women. So I, I was in Hawaii, a station at Kaneohe, Marine Corps Air Station. I go into Waikiki, her head shaved, you know, and back then everybody had long hair so they knew you were a marine right away and they spit on you. I came back from Vietnam and got hit with rotten eggs and spit on called names. Terrible. Coming back as a marine, as a serviceman, and so we couldn't pick up any women. So I said, well, I got this thing called a helicopter. So I talked to these young women. I said, want to go for a helicopter ride to a private island? Some other don't see your hair anymore. You know, So I used to fly from Kaneohe Air Station to the air force base next door to us, pick up the ladies, and we'd fly to this private island loaded with beer, drinking. Oh, my God, we were partying, going for the Mile High Club. Everything said, I'm having the best time. And I'm. And so everybody hears about my little ventures I'm doing. I said, my commanding officer says, can I go with you? Sure, sir. Yeah. He was a colonel, I'm a lieutenant. And he goes, sure. So we go. We're partying away on this island, drunk as skunks and all this stuff. And one day I come taxiing back in to Oahu, the main island, and I shut my engine off and MPs are out. They open the door of my helicopter. First thing that falls out is beer cans. So that's federal offense right there. Then I fell out. I had no flight suit on. I was in swimming trunks and rubber slippers in the back to find cans of beer, diving gear, everything illegal. And the mistake I made was I started to lie. And so they caught me. They put me under house arrest. I had a nice condo in Waikiki. They put this Captain Abrams, nice Jewish attorney, prosecutor, on my butt. Oh, he was good. I thought I was good. I'm trying to cover my. It was exactly like a few Good Men. They chucked the fuel logs, and so they were checking my fuel logs and all this stuff, and I was lying through my teeth. And finally, I was like, I couldn't stand it anymore. He caught everything. I did this Abrams, great attorney. I mean, I respect him a lot. So I'm sitting in the room and he goes, so, Lieutenant, on this day, did you do this? Sir, I'm going to tell you the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. I told him about every stupid thing I ever did. On this day, I flew women here. On this date, I did this here, this date. We did this year. At the end of it, I think I lost 30 pounds because I was just so upset, you know, lying, tracking me down and all this stuff. I sat there like this, and on the. On the stand, and I looked up at Captain Abrams and I said, how many years, sir? And he smiled at me and says, you're free. I said, what? Just get the out of here. Honorable discharge. Thank you, Maureen. And I said, what? He looked at me and he says, son, I'll tell you something. We all f up. We all mistake. We all make mistakes. Just don't lie. Because when you lie about your mistakes, you become a liar, that's the worst thing you can do. It was one of the best lessons I ever had. So to this day, I have tremendous respect for the US Marine Corps because they pounded me. They pounded me. And this Captain Abrams, man, he was one smart dude. I don't know how he caught all my. Man, I was cheating every. I was a top of that was a top secret officer. So I had a lot of top secret files and all that. He tracked me down. And so when I saw A Few Good Men with Nicholson, and so Jessup Nicholson goes, you can't handle the truth. I said that wasn't.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (40:05)

How did that change your mindset afterwards?

Robert Kiyosaki (40:08)

Don't lie. You up, you up. God designed us to make mistakes. The way a baby learns to walk is to fall down. The way you learn to ride a bike is to fall down. We make mistakes, so God does. I'm not really religious. I'm not preaching here. The way humans were designed to learn is by making mistakes. So I'm an entrepreneur. I made a lot of mistakes, but that's why I'm rich today. And those Uber drivers didn't want to go through that process. You know, I crashed three times. I have a broken back because of it. But we practice making mistakes, and I think our academic system has screwed up because most school teachers sing from the Bible of don't make mistakes because mistakes make you stupid. The facts are, humans are designed to make mistakes, and that's how we learn.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (41:07)

How has only ever being honest and telling the truth positively affected your life? We had Kevin o' Leary on this podcast a while ago. I'm sure you probably know who he is.

Robert Kiyosaki (41:17)

He would say, he's a smart dude.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (41:19)

Boy, he is a smart guy. And. And he was saying the exact same thing that you're saying right now, which is, one lie can destroy your life.

Robert Kiyosaki (41:28)

Yeah, exactly.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (41:29)

One lie. And so he has made a pledge to only ever be honest. And that's part of why he is the way that he is. He's known as Mr. Wonderful because he's so blunt and cut and dry and honest.

Robert Kiyosaki (41:40)

He.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (41:40)

He only says the truth. And. And he credits that towards his, I would say, understanding that you should only ever be honest and never lie.

Robert Kiyosaki (41:49)

Yeah, we all make mistakes. You know, that's how I. I lost so many companies. We make mistakes, but don't lie about it. So I've paid my bills. You know, I've lost several million dollars. I paid it off, but that's why I'm rich today. But those Uber drivers didn't want to go through that process. They went, what's a quick fix? I said, buy bitcoin. So I can't afford. It's got a problem. You know, Bitcoin's brilliant, by the way. I think it's really been ether. Ethereum. Ethereum, fantastic. You don't have to be that smart and you get rich. Yeah.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (42:28)

A lot of people compare real estate with bitcoin. They say bitcoin is like a digital real estate in a sense that you're buying something that's fixed. What is your thought on. What is your thought on real estate today?

Robert Kiyosaki (42:40)

Real estate's a tough game.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (42:42)

Do you think that prices for real estate are elevated to a point where it just no longer makes sense to buy it?

Robert Kiyosaki (42:48)

Doesn't make any difference to me. If it's too expensive, you don't buy it. Yeah, I love crashes. When the markets crash, that's when I get rich. Everything goes on sale. So people live well. What, you know, today as this was September 2025, the S& P is at all time highs, I'd be out because I want to go one more direction down.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (43:17)

Do you expect a crash in the near future? And how do you get rich during a crash?

Robert Kiyosaki (43:22)

Well, that's what I was talking about Zimbabwe, when I was there. When I. When I saw that crash, I said, this is great. The sad thing, what happened in Zimbabwe was I was talking to this young entrepreneur about your age. He lost his nerve. I could tell he was smart. He had that. I said, you live in one of the richest. Zimbabwe is one of the richest countries. It's a gold country, man. There's my gold mines here and all this. I'll be on like a cheap suit. He lost his nerve. I've seen it happen. When a pilot loses their nerve, we take them off the line. They can't handle the. They just can't handle it. I mean, people is tough. You know, when I was flying in climb, flying into combat, we just put rock and roll music on because we had to jack ourselves up. When you see your friends go down and you never see them again, it just takes your heart out. You know, your friends don't come back to the carrier gonna cry, but the next day going back at it again. That's what I loved about the military. It was mission first, you didn't count. So I meet young men especially though, you know, where's your testicles? Get up there and fight hard. But they don't do that. You know, my friends who are now like generals and things like this, they can't fight men. So the Marine Corps is having a tough time finding men.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (45:05)

So on the topic of a possible incoming crash, do you expect some sort of a stock market crash? And how can you get rich during the crash?

Robert Kiyosaki (45:14)

Everything goes on sale. See, I don't save dollars. I only serve gold and silver and bitcoin and ethereum. I don't save this stuff. So in a crash, gold, silver and all that, what they do is they print more money. When they print more money, those go up in value. So my gold goes up, silver goes up, ethereum goes up, bitcoin goes up. So you gotta know in a crash, those goes up, crashes, goes down. It's the same as flying an aircraft, you know, So I like crashes. I'm in Phoenix, Arizona is in 2008. When it crashed here, the best real estate on earth went on sale. I bought so much, it was incredible. The banks were happy to see you.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (46:07)

There's this belief now though, that we're not going to see a crash anymore and that if we see the markets drop, the Fed can come in and just print more money and bail us out.

Robert Kiyosaki (46:16)

That's right.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (46:17)

How does it change your investing philosophy?

Robert Kiyosaki (46:19)

Because when you print money, the rich get richer and the poor middle class get poorer. The reason we have homelessness today is because we have a Federal Reserve Bank. It's a criminal organization. Anything that's a central bank is Marxist. So the Fed is Marxist, if you understand that. So Thomas Jefferson said, if we allow somebody to take over our money, which the Fed did, people wake up homeless in their own lands. Look at homelessness is exploding. People can't afford homes. Your age is having tougher, tougher times because prices are so high. When you print fake money, which this stuff is, you make life harder on people. But guys like me who have assets, you print this, this goes up. But if you print this, the price of coffee also goes up. So inflation is going to wipe out my generation. The boomers don't have enough money to get through inflation. They're going to be, the boomers are going to be homeless all over the place.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (47:30)

What about the argument that AI is going to help bring down the cost of a lot of items and that we might not see as much inflation over time because we could start doing.

Robert Kiyosaki (47:39)

Things for less, going to cause unemployment. So as what happened was the industrial age took out the manual worker, you know, the guy worked with his hands. AI is going to take out the doctors and lawyers. I don't need a lawyer anymore. AI does it for me. So you're going to. So there's going to be good and bad to it, but I don't really give a. If you understand money that the way the Fed operates, which is a Marxist organization, they're going to print. Like I said, I was in Zimbabwe. They printed to solve their problems. And they kept printing and it collapsed. I went to watch how they. They couldn't trade because this was. The Zim dollar was worthless. So I'm in Harare, Nelson Bulawayo, Zimbabwe. And then that a thing called United Nations. And in the back of this garage, all these people were coming together. It was like a big swap meet because the money was no good. They're saying, I got this for sale here. I'll trade you my watch. I got some. I got some tomatoes for sale here. And they went to a barter economy that fast. So when I, When I tell you guys I was in Zimbabwe, every guy goes, well, where's Zimbabwe? But America is following Zimbabwe right now, same as prepare for it. What Zimbabwe did was they printed money to pay their bills. We print 2 trillion a year. That's what Trump is trying to stop. But there's people who will take him out for that.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (49:25)

Yeah. Do you think for the average person, given what you've just said, should buy or rent a house?

Robert Kiyosaki (49:31)

It's an expense to me. That's all it is. If you don't. The problem is if you don't make enough money, like that Uber driver, those two of them, right in a row. I don't have time to read your book, so thank you. Bye.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (49:43)

But if the average person needs to live somewhere and they say they're going to print more money, there is the belief that real estate, as a result.

Robert Kiyosaki (49:49)

Of that don't ask what if questions. Look, I own 1500 rental properties. I'll just go sleep in one of them. How many guys do I.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (50:03)

Seven.

Robert Kiyosaki (50:05)

So I just keep buying. No, it's serious. Yeah. Thomas Jefferson said, if a central bank takes over, which the Fed is, people wake up homeless in their own lands. And that's what's happening today. I look at the people who are homeless now, you can say, well, they're on drugs and mentally deranged and all this stuff, which is probably true, but it's getting harder. When you print money, the rich get richer and the poor and middle class get poorer. So if you own a house and you print money, you feel, oh, my price of my house went up. But the average person. So the price of chicken and eggs and yogurt goes up and Inflation wipes them out. So mark my words, I'm the first of the boomers. We're going to get wiped out via inflation. Your mommy and daddy may be on the street because inflation is going to wipe out the Social Security.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (51:07)

When's the last time that you were wrong about a prediction that you had made?

Robert Kiyosaki (51:11)

Never.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (51:13)

Never wrong.

Robert Kiyosaki (51:14)

As long as they're printing money, you can predict what's going to happen. That's happened throughout time. The Romans did it, the Chinese did it, Hitler did it. They all do it.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (51:25)

What are your price targets for something like bitcoin? Gold, silver?

Robert Kiyosaki (51:31)

I have no price target. I have an entry and I don't sell. So, like, right now, to me, the biggest bargain is silver. So silver's about 40, 50 bucks. And Ethereum, I think, is very good right now. I stopped buying bitcoin. Why? Too high.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (51:52)

I've seen so many predictions that bitcoin's gonna hit a million, five million, so. So if it's too high, why not sell?

Robert Kiyosaki (52:03)

I don't need the money. I don't need money. I got 1500 rental properties. I own oil wells. Money keeps pouring in. I gotta keep moving my money around. I invest in assets. Let me give you the three rules on rich, dad, poor debt. The rich don't work for money. The rich work to acquire assets. And an asset is. And that puts money in your pocket whether you work or not. Some of my little oil wells, you know, I'm investing in billboards now. And the billboards are going to be outside Las Vegas, right, guys? And they pay. Every month, they pay you money for those billboards. And I get bonus depreciation. Okay? So I'm always moving my money.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (52:52)

What's the ROI of a billboard? I'm always, what's the roi?

Robert Kiyosaki (52:56)

I have no idea. Right now it's just being put together now. It's bonus depreciation. So I put a million dollars In, I get 5 million depreciation. That means I don't pay tax.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (53:08)

What would you say is the worst financial advice you've ever heard?

Robert Kiyosaki (53:12)

Warren Buffett, what's for average people? Smart man. I listen to him, I go, so.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (53:21)

We actually have a video I'd love for you to react to.

Robert Kiyosaki (53:25)

Warren Buffett speaks for the average man. And my saying to you guys is, don't be average. You want to be the best at what you can do.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (53:34)

I want to get your thoughts on what Warren Buffett said on leverage. This is what he said.

Robert Kiyosaki (53:39)

They risked what they did have and did need. And that's foolish. That is just plain foolish. It doesn't make any difference what your IQ is if you. If you risk something that is important to you for something that is unimportant to you, it just does not make any sense. I don't care whether the odds are 100 to one that you succeed or a thousand, one that succeeded. If you hand me a with a thousand chambers, a million chambers in it, and there's a bullet in one chamber, and you said, put it up your temple. How much do you want to be paid to pull it once?

Host 1 (Interviewer) (54:07)

So that's on leverage. That's why take a risk in anything if you don't need the extra money.

Robert Kiyosaki (54:13)

What was he talking about? He has the biggest leverage of all. He has an insurance company that's massive leverage. The reason you own insurance companies is because insurance companies have to keep placing their money. You want to get rich, you buy an insurance company. He's full of. He's a smart guy in his field. My whole message to everybody is this, find out. The best field for you, for me is real estate and oil. I'm very good in those two fields. And now billboards. I love gold and silver. I have a gold mine in Utah. I took it public, the New York Stock Exchange. So one of my goal was to list a company on the New York Stock Exchange. So that's what entrepreneurs do. Our goals are different. The average guy says, oh, I think I'll have a well diversified program in a 401k. That's not my goal. You know, it takes no. No intelligence in a 401k. To me, it's a waste of time. I can, I can beat the 401k all the time. I'd rather have oil wells that pay me every single month. Guess what? Every month they're going to burn that oil. You know, every month. And every month, because they're burning that oil, I get a depletion allowance, which means I pay less tax. So I make more money and I pay less tax. To me, that's smart. To put my money in a 401k, I must give it to Warren Buffett. Nothing wrong with that. Buffett's a smart boy, but his thing on leverage, he's talking about the average guy, yet he bought an insurance company. I think it was Geico or something like that. Insurance companies are the biggest lever. Sure is. Because they have to leverage your money. You know, if you can put $200 in, they have to be able to pay you your money back later on. So he doesn't tell the whole Story. And he also didn't. He didn't call. He called gold rat droppings or something like that.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (56:28)

That was, I think, bitcoin. He called bitcoin? Yeah.

Robert Kiyosaki (56:32)

He's entitled to his opinion. Fine. But each of us has to find the way that makes the most sense of them. I like bitcoin. I like Ethereum. I like gold. I like silver. I like real estate. I like oil. I don't like stocks. If you like stocks, invest in them. But be good at it. You gotta be very, very good at it is the most important thing. Don't lie. You make a mistake. Mistakes are very good ways to learn. Well, I screw it up here. Yeah. People who lie about their mistakes don't.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (57:06)

Learn when it comes to investing in stocks. What do you think about investing in index funds or ETFs?

Robert Kiyosaki (57:11)

I just do track the good for losers. My opinion. Yeah, but if you're a loser, have a good time.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (57:18)

Graham's a loser. Graham love.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (57:20)

I like index.

Robert Kiyosaki (57:22)

Tell me wrong. It's not exciting. It's boring as.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (57:27)

That's why I like it, though, because I don't have to worry.

Robert Kiyosaki (57:30)

I don't have to think it fits you.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (57:31)

Because here's the thing. When. When you're talking about owning all these rental properties and billboards, to me, that just seems like mental energy that gets tied up. And again, you've said before that you do what works for you. Yes, and when I think about something like my rental properties, I can't stand them because when something gets fixed, I look at the bill and I think, how could I have done this for less money? Is this a good bill? I start itemizing every little thing you're missing.

Robert Kiyosaki (57:58)

Property management.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (57:59)

I have a property manager.

Robert Kiyosaki (58:01)

Yeah, I don't do that shit.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (58:02)

See, here's what bothered me. I had a refrigerator.

Robert Kiyosaki (58:04)

I don't do that shit. Okay? I'm not a laborer.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (58:07)

But how do you know that you're not getting ripped off?

Robert Kiyosaki (58:12)

Because I have good property managers.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (58:14)

Yeah.

Robert Kiyosaki (58:14)

Kenny McElroy is my partner. You should read his stuff.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (58:18)

You know, we've been told by a few people we should have him on this show.

Robert Kiyosaki (58:21)

Yes. The man is a freaking genius. I mean, the thing I love about Kenny, he's funny, you know, but he's one of the smartest entrepreneurs I've ever met. So when I have a question, I talk to him. The same as my tax guys. Tom Wheelwright, Tax Free Wealth. Interview him. I want to find out oil as my friend Mike Maselli. So I just want the cash flow. I don't want capital gains. I don't want that. I want cash flow. I want as much debt as I can get, and I don't want to pay taxes. That's my game.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (59:03)

Yeah.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (59:03)

I think when it comes to me in real estate, though, I'll give you the refrigerator example, because it still bothers me after a few months. I had a refrigerator ice maker just like this that broke. And so the tenant called the property manager. The property manager sends me a bill, And I see the bill, and it's already paid, already done, but it was $1,200, and the refrigerator was worth $700. And so I said, we spent $1,200 to save a $700 refrigerator. That doesn't make sense. Where did we go wrong on this? And that little discrepancy took my focus away from doing anything else that would have yielded a higher return than me focusing on the refrigerator. And you could say, don't worry about it. You know, it doesn't matter in the big picture, and it really doesn't. But stuff like that, I can't help it. It's just how my mind works to optimize every little thing. And so the less I have on my plate and the more I could doing something like this, that gives a way better ROI than that refrigerator or the property. That's the way I think of things. So I just want to outsource and just index fund. Okay.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (60:07)

I will say the mentality of I can't help the way that I believe, like, that my mind is going to react that way is a complete cop out. You absolutely can.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (60:16)

That's true.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (60:16)

So you can choose at any given moment to feel however you want to feel. You could choose right now to be like, okay, I'm never going to think about that again. So that's. That's a cop out.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (60:24)

I just want to say that I'm.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (60:25)

Not going to let you say that and just be like, I'm just the type of guy to get really upset when something happens.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (60:29)

You.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (60:29)

You could choose.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (60:30)

That's fair. That's fair. Yeah, I agree with that.

Robert Kiyosaki (60:32)

You're looking at the property management side. I look at real estate, the finance side. So who else is going to lend me, like, I borrowed. How much did I borrow last week? Oh, 25 million. Who's going to give me 25 million to buy the S and P? But real estate, they do. Debt is the way I get rich. So Buffett's saying debt is no good. That's Buffett's plan. This is a great program. Because what we're saying is find a way that works for you. You know you're fighting with a refrigerator. I'd rather get $25 million in cash to buy the damn place and hire a property manager.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (61:14)

Speaking of debt, I would love to hear your opinion on this. We had Dave Ramsey on this podcast and I asked him a question. I want to hear your your thoughts on his response. If you could borrow $1 billion, 0% interest for 10 years, would you do it?

Robert Kiyosaki (61:31)

No.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (61:31)

Even though you could put it in treasuries after the 10 years, you could lock in 10 year treasury right now. 10, 5%.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (61:39)

No, no, it's not worth it.

Robert Kiyosaki (61:41)

I don't borrow money.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (61:42)

There we go. What do you think about that?

Robert Kiyosaki (61:45)

That's Dave Ramsey's formula. Unfortunately, he's really short sighted. What he doesn't understand is 1971, the US dollar became debt. If you stop borrowing money, the US economy stops. So he says live debt free. It's actually unpatriotic. I borrow money as a patriot because when I borrow money, I create money. Money is only. Money only comes into existence after 1971 when we borrow money. But it's his formula. But he and I have gone around and around on this. Live debt free.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (62:29)

I was looking good, although really quick. If you're looking to cut back on expenses without really changing your lifestyle, looking at your phone bill is one of the best places to start. Most people are still paying 60, 80, or even a hundred dollars or more for something they barely even think about. That's why we're excited to be partnering with today's sponsor, Helium Mobile. Because doing phone service, completely different.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (62:50)

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Host 1 (Interviewer) (63:10)

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Host 2 (Interviewer) (63:22)

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Host 1 (Interviewer) (63:32)

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Host 2 (Interviewer) (63:42)

So guys, we've left a link down below in the description to try Helium Mobile today. Just make sure to use the code coffee to get $10 in cloud points, which can be redeemed for gift cards to your favorite brand. Once again, guys, there's a link down below in the description. Thank you so much to Helium Mobile for sponsoring this episode.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (63:56)

Although really quick, let's be real. No one is starting a business for the joys of calculating tax withholdings or keeping track of payroll deadlines. But that's the stuff that has to get done. And thankfully our sponsor Gusto is there to help.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (64:09)

It's so funny, but I've actually used Gusto long before they decided to partner with us on this episode. In fact, when I created my first ever S Corp, Gusto was there to help because I had no idea what I was doing. From tax filings to benefits to deadlines, it was extremely overwhelming. But Gusta walked me through everything step by step, and I've been using them ever since. Gusto is an online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. It's all in one remote, friendly and incredibly easy to use, so you can pay, hire onboard and support your team from anywhere.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (64:36)

They've got automatic payroll tax filings, direct deposit, health benefits, workers comp, commuter benefits, even 400 1K options. Everything you need, but without the headaches. And they have options for practically every budget.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (64:49)

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Host 1 (Interviewer) (64:59)

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Host 2 (Interviewer) (65:06)

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Host 1 (Interviewer) (65:21)

Is Gusto.com Again, Gusto.com iced with the link down below in the description to get started today. Thank you so much Gusto for sponsoring this episode. And now let's get back to the podcast.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (65:33)

Have you ever spent Time with Dave?

Robert Kiyosaki (65:35)

Little bit. I had dinner with him one night and I said, how do you think this guy pays for this building? Says debt, debt. 1971, the dollar became debt. So just understand that. So in my point of view, when I'm borrowing money, I'm creating money.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (65:59)

Do you think there's any peace of mind that you have owning a paid off house? No debt, no credit cards. Everything you buy is yours.

Robert Kiyosaki (66:10)

Yeah, but that doesn't make me peace for mine. I like my game. Yeah, I like buying something as big as I can using other people's money as much as I can. It's my game. Don't do what I do. I like my game. The first. You know, when I came out of the Marine Corps, I had to learn several things. I had to take sales courses. So my rich dad says, if you can't sell, you can't be an entrepreneur. Then after that was how to raise capital debt. And that's when I found out. He says, you better get to know your banker. And so I plan my future by, you know, what I did every day. I don't just jump into it. So I got to know my banker fairly well. Then I got to know my accountants. And then some I like, some I didn't like. So today we have the rich dad advisor team. My accountants, Tom Wheelwright. I asked all of them to write books to tell people what they do for me. My accountant on the corporate side is Garrett Sutton. Because I us corporations to shield my. Protect my wealth but also limit taxes. So I don't. I don't come into this just guessing.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (67:28)

Do you think money buys happiness? That you become happier the more money you have?

Robert Kiyosaki (67:33)

I do.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (67:35)

Is there.

Robert Kiyosaki (67:35)

Have you ever been poor?

Host 1 (Interviewer) (67:37)

I wouldn't say poor poor, but definitely growing up, things were paycheck to paycheck.

Robert Kiyosaki (67:42)

Yeah, it's not happy. I buy like I want to buy.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (67:46)

At what point do you think money slows down?

Robert Kiyosaki (67:51)

If you sell your value system, your soul, you're doing what you hate to do. I love what I do. Like, I went back to Zimbabwe to teach. I work for free. I don't need money. I have so much money coming in, I can work for free. I would hate it if I couldn't go back to Zimbabwe and have to charge that money. I work for free because I have so much money coming in from assets, not from a job.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (68:26)

Have you seen many people sell their soul? And when they do, what does that?

Robert Kiyosaki (68:29)

Every day is called the go to work. I see on the highway every morning.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (68:33)

Yeah, I don't disagree with you. I remember I went to a doctor's appointment recently, and I went right after lunch. And so I'm watching some of these doctor's assistants coming in, and they say, oh, man, it was Friday. They said, only four more hours until we could get off work. What are you doing this weekend? They're all talking. And I remembered briefly I was working like this 9 to 5 job doing data entry when I was 18. And I remember that same feeling where you would dread Sunday because you had to go to work on Monday morning. And I remember thinking on Fridays, oh, great, one more day left. Only three hours to lunch. And then after lunch, oh, great, only three hours left until I'm off. I'd be so happy on Friday. Then Saturday, I would think to myself, oh, man, Sunday I have to go to bed early because Monday I have work. And I remember just thinking, I never wanted to experience that ever again.

Robert Kiyosaki (69:28)

I've thought about that a lot, too. And my best friend, who. He and I both became billionaires together. And he taught me a very valuable lesson. He says, you start work on Sunday. I went, what? He just reframed it, you know, so we'd go into. We worked at Xerox together in Honolulu. Yeah, we'd go to work with our own key. We do all of our work on Sunday night because we got more done. And we submitted our proposals Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. We had Friday, Saturday, Sunday off.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (70:08)

What do you think is the best use of spending money that you found?

Robert Kiyosaki (70:12)

Education, like I said. I mean, I'm. I'm, you know, I. I got. One of the benefits of my job is people want me come and speak for them. So I get to go, oh, I can attend a seminar and I get to hang out with some really smart people, you know, in the. In the green room. That's how I met Trump.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (70:33)

Yeah.

Robert Kiyosaki (70:34)

You know, Trump and I hang out in the back room going. And he goes, who are you? And I was. And we just. And he's the best guy. He and his sons, Don Jr. And Eric. Man, they're good kids, you know. And we became best of friends sitting in the back room together.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (70:54)

When was this?

Robert Kiyosaki (70:55)

Oh, years ago now.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (70:57)

What was your first impression of him?

Robert Kiyosaki (70:59)

I think the same as everybody else's kind of a presence, you know, he's. I mean, he exudes power. He's a very powerful man. Don Jr. And Eric. Eric Trump were hunters. And we go, this is private island. I used to take women to in Hawaii. We do it legally this time, and we fly there. We have no Toilets, no running water. Those young boys ask no quarter. They're extremely well raised young men. If I had sons, they would be like those two guys. They're the best. Tough, mean. Not mean, but strong, strong men.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (71:42)

What have you learned from Trump?

Robert Kiyosaki (71:43)

That's a good question. Just I can call him. He's very accessible.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (71:51)

How often have you called him?

Robert Kiyosaki (71:53)

Very rarely.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (71:54)

And when you do, what do you ask?

Robert Kiyosaki (71:56)

Well, journalist. Hey, where's Don? And where's Don and Eric? We're going hunting together. It's just fun. We're just friends. We wrote two books together and would write. And as he'd say. So I got to understand how he thought. I said, here's a problem, you know, in the book, the book was called the Midas Touch, How Entrepreneurs why Some Entrepreneurs Get Rich. So I had to sit with, ask myself, how would you do this? And he, he's most generous, very generous man. His whole staff in New York City, just the best people. There was Rona and Meredith and all this. His bodyguard, Keith. He and I had the body. Just a great, Just really good people. They're not arrogant, they're not cocky. Me, that was the most surprising thing about hanging out with them.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (72:52)

How do you think Trump raised such strong children?

Robert Kiyosaki (72:57)

They said that I asked the question. Yeah, so their mother kicked their asses now and they had a sister, you know, certainly. They're just good kids. Just really solid. Yeah, man. Really, really solid. I mean, you're sitting out there, there's no toilet. You got to dig a hole. We had to eat what we killed. And they don't. They don't. Not wimps. They're just solid, good guys.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (73:33)

What was your last conversation with Trump like?

Robert Kiyosaki (73:36)

It was, we're supposed to write a third book together. And I said, robert, can't do the book deal with you gonna let me out of it? We have three book deal. I said, sure, you're out. Why am I gonna hold it?

Host 1 (Interviewer) (73:53)

Yeah.

Robert Kiyosaki (73:55)

I said, what are you doing? He says, I'm running for president. I said, good luck. That's all I could say to him. The next thing you know, he's coming down the stairs, you know, would you.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (74:07)

Ever want to be president?

Robert Kiyosaki (74:09)

No. That's a. He is. You know, you look like Jordan Peterson.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (74:15)

Yeah. We've had him on the podcast.

Robert Kiyosaki (74:16)

He's a man. He's a smart dude. Jordan is, but that's why I got to hang out with those guys in green rooms. So I was hanging out with Jordan Peterson and all this stuff, and he was talking about Trump, you know, And Jordan has that saying. He says, you think tough men are bad, weak men are the worst. Something like that. Jordan says something, and so he says, trump is a strong man. That's what we need at this time. Could you imagine if Kamala had won? Or Joe Biden's crime family? My God. So we needed a tough man at this time. I know people hate him, my family hates him, but he's a tough man right now.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (75:04)

How do you think politics affect the average person when it comes to their money?

Robert Kiyosaki (75:09)

Well, they pay taxes.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (75:12)

That's true.

Robert Kiyosaki (75:14)

No, I mean, it's. To me, it's really simple. Because I was in Zimbabwe last week. They went bust because they printed money to pay their bills. The United states was at 36 trillion in debt.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (75:29)

37 now.

Robert Kiyosaki (75:30)

37.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (75:31)

It's almost 38.

Robert Kiyosaki (75:32)

37. 200 million. 350Americans. 200 million are on some kind of government subsistence. And my whole family, not all of them, their idea of a good job is getting a government pension. So it's in your value system. I don't want a government pension. But there's so many of our school teachers, they want that government pension. And that's the 200 million that are part of this Social Security disaster we have coming. And so I said, young people like you, you know, study Zimbabwe 2002, I had my hands up like this. Law and order breaks. Law and order broke down.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (76:26)

If you were the average person, let's just call them in their 20s today, and you were starting from zero, what would you do?

Robert Kiyosaki (76:34)

I learned how to sell. You know, I like network marketing. I tell people to join network marketing. I said, why is that? Because you learn to take rejection. You know, if you can't take rejection, you can't be an entrepreneur. You know, it's probably the. You know, everybody likes to be liked. I like to be liked. But, man, you can handle rejection. You got it made. So network marketing, the guys I hang out with, they're just really good on other. Other guys are really good, are Mormon missionaries. Man, those guys take a lot of rejection. I. I hang out with several of them and go, how'd you guys do that? You know, How'd you do that? You know? And they said, man, you knock on the door, I'm in the U.S. i'm from the Mormon Church. Yeah. I said, jesus, the best train you could.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (77:24)

God, how do you not take that personally? And how do you. That's the salesperson.

Robert Kiyosaki (77:28)

That's the trick. If you're like a. They call a snag a sensitive New age guy. It's hard to get ahead. But there's so many people, they take things so personally. And I told. I. I should have mentioned the names, but I won't mention. I told this one person, you charged too much money. They got so upset with me. So my friends are complaining about you. They can't take feedback. Feedback is how we learn.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (78:02)

How often do you get feedback where people come to you and say, here's my thoughts about what you're doing. And how do you know whether or not to listen to somebody?

Robert Kiyosaki (78:11)

That's a tough. That's a good question. Because a lot of times I have such a nice temper. It's not good, it's not healthy. So I've got to learn to control my temper and actually seek the feedback. It's a discipline I have. Things change as you age and do better and all this stuff. So life's always about change. Change and growth, personal development. I like what you guys are doing, like I said. And I love YouTube because a lot of characters on there, you know, a lot of. A lot of. But I listen to them too, you know, just keep your mind open and chug along.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (78:55)

But how do you decide what to listen to and take to heart and maybe make changes versus someone just giving you advice that's maybe incorrect?

Robert Kiyosaki (79:04)

It's a rescue take. I think the most important lesson I learned was I studied with a man named Dr. R. Buckminster Fuller. He's got invented the geodesic dome. So if you go. I went to the Montreal. Montreal World Expo in 67. The US pavilion was Bucky Fuller's dome. And I'm in there with my classmate. But I had studied former they consider one of the greatest geniuses of our time. I'm studying with Fuller, this. On this thing. So I went to study with him. The lesson I learned, choose your teachers wisely. So once I understood that I wanted to study with Fuller, I tracked him down. So when he gave a seminar, I went to listen to him. So I studied with Fuller for three summers. Once, once here, once once in Hawaii, once there. And I sat there with him and he asked me about a class, about 100 people. And I'm sitting there, I'm kind of. I don't like to share things by myself. And he kind of said, hey, what's your life's purpose? And here he is, the world's greatest genius, Buckminster Fuller, you know, John Denver wrote songs about him. All this stuff. I said, I'm going to get rich. And in front of a hundred people, he Chews me out. Young man, young man, young man. Getting rich is a waste of a good mind. What? So here's all his groupies who love him. I'm getting my ass chewed up by Bucky Fuller, you know. And he goes, well, what am I supposed to do? He says, ask yourself this young man. What does God want done? Said what? What does God want done? Not what do you want to do? What does God want done? So I'm hurting inside because he chewed me out for a hundred people, you know, nobody's like, get chewed out. But the lesson hit me. It says, what does God want done? So this was studying. This is in Reno, Nevada, in the mountains. So I left there and I said, what does God want done? I thought about it and thought about it, thought about him. And I created my cash flow board game, and I wrote Rich Dad Board. I said, there's no financial education in schools. I think if I was God, that's what I would want. And that was in 96 and 97. And now those board games have gone all over the world.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (81:55)

Did you know when you wrote the book that it was going to be a hit?

Robert Kiyosaki (81:58)

I flunked out of high school twice because I can't write. It's not that I can't write. Teachers didn't like what I was writing. But the question I leave for young men like you, what does God want done? Even though you can see it. And for me, I was kind of naturally interested in money, so I naturally studied money. And so when Dave Ramsey says, live debt free, I said, well, if you understood money, Dave, you know, you stop borrowing money and the economy stops, what are you going to do? You know, you couldn't answer the question.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (82:37)

When's the last time you changed your mind on something?

Robert Kiyosaki (82:40)

All the time. All the time.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (82:42)

In any significant way. Anytime in the past few years or recently.

Robert Kiyosaki (82:47)

Recently. Like going to Zimbabwe, you know, I started there.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (82:53)

How did that change your mind, though?

Robert Kiyosaki (82:55)

I realized I made a promise back in 2002. There's a poem by. I wrote about it in Rich Dad, Poor dad, it by Robert Frost. The woods are lovely, dark and deep But I promise is to keep and miles to go before I sleep. And miles to go before I sleep. The title of the poem was the Roadless Traveled. I said, what am I supposed to do? I said, I'm supposed to come back to Zimbabwe and teach. And I said, I get paid zero. But I made a promise to those people in 2002 I'd come back because I have promises to keep. So now My cash flow board games there, they're teaching Everybody. I'm donating 120 games and they're going to start clubs all around Zimbabwe to teach people money come up because I've kept the promise. I'm going to teach these people or allow them the possibility of learning because they're not going to learn it in school. One of the richest countries in the world used to be called Rhodesia. Now it's Zimbabwe. The biggest financial disaster in history took place there. The Zim dollar. The US Dollar's next. So I'm practicing.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (84:22)

How do you now define wealth or success? Now that you have basically all the money anyone could ever ask for, what.

Robert Kiyosaki (84:29)

Does God want done?

Host 2 (Interviewer) (84:31)

So you ask yourself that, come to an answer and then pursue that.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (84:34)

What emphasis do you place on legacy?

Robert Kiyosaki (84:37)

Not much. When I'm dead. That's it?

Host 1 (Interviewer) (84:41)

Yeah.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (84:42)

You don't have any children?

Robert Kiyosaki (84:44)

No.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (84:44)

What are you. What are you going to do with your money?

Robert Kiyosaki (84:46)

That's going to my ex wife. She's going to manage it now. I have. That's going to be a big foundation and all that. But I haven't decided how. That's. That's a project I'm working on now. That's a very important question.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (85:02)

What's one daily habit you never will skip?

Robert Kiyosaki (85:05)

I get up every morning and take. I read. I wouldn't call it spiritual, but the kind of spiritual readings. And I don't just read it, I write it. And I write it three times, so it might be a paragraph. Because I studied from Maria Montessori in the Montessori school system. Great entrepreneur. She says, what the hand does, the mind remembers. So if I just read spiritual words, when I have to write them, it embeds. So that's one habit. I get up and I basically not plagiarize them. Just, oh, it's a nice passage. I read it three times. Cool. And I set the day off with that.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (85:50)

Who would you say is the biggest mentor or influence on your life?

Robert Kiyosaki (85:55)

Buckminster Fuller. The happiest thing about my life is kind of not really religious, but I believe there's a God and there's vibrations that we go through in life. You know, like, I feel good here. Go someplace else. You don't feel so good. So I'm going to do a whole series with another guy on Bucky Fuller now. So, like, you guys do an iced coffee hour. Yeah, I'm going to do one on Bucky Fuller, the greatest genius of our time. And that makes my heart happy. So that, That's. That's God telling me you're on course because the frequent, you know, the. It feels good. That's the direction.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (86:36)

If you were to finish this sentence, money is blank, what would you put in the freedom? Freedom.

Robert Kiyosaki (86:44)

Come on, Robert.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (86:45)

Thank you.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (86:46)

Thank you so much for coming on the Iced Coffee Hour. This was honestly a blast. This was an honor, a pleasure. Your insights are phenomenal. I love not only, like the money and finance conversation, but also just the life and everything. And I think it's also interesting. What would God want? And asking yourself that, and then just gearing your actions towards it.

Robert Kiyosaki (87:06)

Yeah. What does God want done? And then go do it.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (87:11)

Thank you. This is an honor.

Host 2 (Interviewer) (87:12)

Thank you. Appreciate it very much.

Host 1 (Interviewer) (87:14)

Till next time.

Robert Kiyosaki (87:14)

Thank you.