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“This Is Why You’re Broke!” - How To Un-F*ck Your Life In 2025 | Ken Coleman
01:23:23
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- [00:00]
Ken Coleman
No one. This episode is brought to you by.
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Graham
Dutch Bros. Big smiles, rocking tunes and epic drinks.
- [00:08]
Ken Coleman
Dutch Bros is all about you. Choose from a variety of customizable handcrafted beverages like our Rebel energy drinks, coffees, teas and more. Download the Dutch Bros app for a free medium drink. Plus find your nearest shop. Order ahead and start earning rewards offer valid for new app users only.
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Graham
Free medium drink Reward upon registration.
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Ken Coleman
14 day expiration terms apply. See DutchBros.com is sitting around today thinking about how they can help you. If you want to help yourself and change your future, you have to take massive responsibility. I recently just changed jobs. Sorry, I'm going to get upset. It's okay. You just do you. Every caller is calling and they're looking for confidence.
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Jack
The work I'm doing though, is not quite what I thought it was going to be.
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Ken Coleman
Understand that a great coach doesn't just tell someone or show someone how to do what they need to do, they empower them to do it. Oh my gosh, you know exactly what to do. Yeah. Set yourself free, man. Content is a wonderful thing. What am I supposed to do with my life? Every human will one day wonder that question. That's fascinating to me. Once you seek clarity, then confidence takes care of itself. There's your answer.
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Graham
So what do you do with the people who are lazy?
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Ken Coleman
Lazy is a symptom. The source of the laziness is.
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Graham
Ken Coleman. Thank you so much for coming on, host of the Ramsey Show. Really appreciate it.
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Jack
What have you learned from Dave and what makes him stand out above other people?
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Ken Coleman
That he's the genuine article. He really is the same guy. In meetings, around a fireplace with a cigar, he's the same guy. Now the way he may come across may be a little bit different in personal or professional settings when he's not on the air. But one of the things that I've been just so genuinely impressed with, having known him for 20 plus years now, work with him for 10, is that he's the genuine article. He really. And I'm not trying to stay on that one theme, but that's the thing that impresses me most is that he is a guy who lives what he believes. There's just no hypocrisy there. So that's, that's one thing. The other thing is, is he surrounds himself with really good people, is very, very disciplined with that. And you know, that's an entire topic like that to me is probably is at this stage of my life and career because I've got three teens, one's in college. Now, the data is clear that 95% of your success or failure in life is directly related to the people you hang out with. And this is from the Harvard study, the longest study on relationships that's ever been done, continues to this day. That's one of their key findings. And, you know, he's just very intentional from how we hire, who we hire from a professional standpoint, but then in his personal life, just very disciplined and very selective in who he hangs out with.
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Jack
That's interesting. I haven't heard about that Harvard study. So you're saying 95% of your success. Success is derived from who you spend your time with.
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Ken Coleman
Success or failure?
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Jack
Success or failure.
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Ken Coleman
So, yeah, you.
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Jack
How do they even conduct a study? Like, I'm curious, because this, this to me is like earth shattering.
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Ken Coleman
Oh, yeah.
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Jack
Statistics.
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Ken Coleman
So you can look it up, you can Google it and find it in one second. It's been going on now for 80 plus years.
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Graham
Oh, wow.
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Ken Coleman
And so they've been following people from birth to death, and they're following generational, so they're following entire families and they've been. This is an ongoing study. It is. You talk to any psychologist, anybody that's an expert in the field of relations. It's the gold standard. So there's so much that's come from that study, as you can imagine. I mean, it's like a beautiful onion. But that's the piece of data that I've locked in on, and I share that all the time. Because if you think about every area of your life, just set this, this, this for you. You think about your financial life, you think about your relational life, you think about your professional life, think about your physical life. If we just leave it to that, okay, we could throw spiritual in there. If you're a person that considers yourself to be spiritual. Let's take those five areas of your life. If you were to sit down right now, Jack, and kind of score yourself out and kind of go, okay, am I winning in each of these areas? When you look at whether you're winning or losing, that study would tell you, dig in winning or losing, and you can extrapolate from that that I'm winning largely or I'm losing largely because of the people I spend the most time with. And the whole takeaway of that is the unbelievable influence that we have on each other as humans. That's the big takeaway.
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Jack
So how can, like, the viewer apply this in their own life? You're just saying, like, maybe write down how you think you're Performing in those categories. Map out your friends and see if there's any, like, lagging people there.
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Ken Coleman
Let's take money, for instance. Let's just so where you feel so your listeners right now. All right, folks, where are you at? You winning financially or are you losing? Are you just kind of hovering? You rate it, write it down. This is a fabulous exercise. I'm doing okay. All right, now look at the people you spend the most time with. Are they doing okay in their finances? Are they winning in their finances? You're going to see a correlation. And you can just keep on going with that. You know, are you, are you winning physically? Do you have good habits and how you eat, how you exercise? Yes. No, average, whatever you want to do. There's great average, suck, whatever. And think about the people you're spending time with. And you know, Jim Rohn also popularized this. You know, the legendary kind of motivational guys, like the five people you spend time with, you know, so, you know, this is not a new concept, but this is actual data. Like, the data is, you can have opinions all you want to. I like data. And so when you begin to look at that, you go, okay. And so what's happening is as you begin to do inventory on your life, do inventory on your friends, there's going to be correlation. So if I need to change something in my life should probably change the time I'm spending with these people, change my friends. Now that sounds heartless. I'm not saying that you just go break up with everybody in your life. But I would begin to put some boundaries up.
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Jack
Audit it.
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Ken Coleman
Audit it. Put boundaries up where we need boundaries. By the way, this applies to family as well. If you have a family member that's pulling you down, you need some boundaries. That's real. And so what happens is, to give you an example, Dave Ramsey challenged me years ago in this company wide marathon challenge, half marathon challenge. He guilted me in front of the entire staff. Coleman, you gotta run. I hate running. I love exercising. I hate running. Long story short, he put the pressure on me. I said, I'll do it. So I decided I need a stretch goal in order to do this or I'm going to wake up one day and go, I'm a grown man. I'm not going to run. I'm going to watch football today. And so we had the stretch goal and I called a buddy of mine who was an ultra marathoner. I said, I need you to train me. And I said, I'm going to need you to run with me a few times because I inherently knew that if I run with a better runner, he's going to set a better pace than me.
- [07:18]
Graham
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Ken Coleman
And by running with him on one of those long runs, he's just a better runner. He's in better shape. I knew my performance would be better because he's setting the pace. I am. It's almost like he's pulling me in this gravitational pull. That's the example here of what we take away from that as we audit and we look at, okay, who do we need to be spending time with? I want to spend time with people. If I don't like where I'm at financially, I want to start spending time with dudes. That or my wife and I spending time with couples that are ahead of us financially that are because they're going to set a pace. And I think that's the real richness of that idea.
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Graham
It's really interesting. So when people call in and you're giving them advice on the show, what's one of the commonalities that really stands out to you? Or what's one of the most memorable calls that you've gotten?
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Ken Coleman
Yeah, that's a different question. And it will probably be one of two calls. It was a lady who started the call. She said, ken, I think I'm gonna be a unique call for you today. And I was kind of like, well, all right, let's thousands of calls in. You know, everybody's kind of similar, just slightly different details. And she said, I said, okay, shoot. She goes, I make $350,000 and I'm miserable. And I laughed. And I said, tell me what do you do? She goes, I'm in pharmaceutical sales, and I'm really good. She had a lot of personality, and I was loving this lady, you know? And I said, okay, so why are you so miserable? Because you got margin. You're crushing it. She goes, I don't like the work, Ken. And she's chuckling, and I knew where this was going, and I'm just letting her. And fast forward, she said, I'm just so confused. I know it's not this pharmaceutical sales, but I don't know what it is. And I used three questions that I use with everybody who sits and presents that problem. I said, all right, shut your brain off and answer the following three questions with your heart. Don't think. Answer. She said, okay. I said, who are the people you want to help? She said, women. I said, great. Tell me the problem that these women have or the desire that they have. She said, they're not physically healthy. They're stressed out. She went on to describe some things, and I said, what is the solution to that problem that you just described that you could get most excited about? And she said, I think coaching and guiding women to get their nutrition and their exercise in a very healthy place, and it will change their physical body. And when they change their physical body. And she began to get emotional, I could hear just a little bit of emotion. And she finished the sentence. She said, when they get their physical body in order, I think that they're going to get their emotional and mental life in order. And I could hear it, and I just went right to it. And I just said, is that deeply personal to you? And I knew the answer. And she began to cry. Yes. Yes. And I said, tell me about it. She said, I changed my life six months ago. I said, what? What did you do? She said, I've lost 150 pounds. And she just broke. And so that's probably the most memorable call because it was fun to take that construct of those three questions that I've learned over time. I didn't come into this gig knowing those questions, but after coaching thousands of people on the air, you kind of start to see patterns. And it was such a beautiful thing to see a woman present as completely confused and finish the call completely confident. And so I think that's the answer to the first part of that question. I. I have summed it up to every caller is calling and they're looking for confidence because I represent a coach. And so whatever you're coaching people on, if you're in the coaching business or want to get in the coaching business. Little hack here. Understand that a great coach, an effective coach, doesn't just tell someone or show someone how to do what they need to do. They empower them to do it. In other words, they give them this boost of confidence, almost like a shot in the arm, and they go from seeing to believing. I've seen what you've shown me I need to do now. I think I can go out there and run that play. And I think that's why those calls for me, when someone presents, is so confused and then has this emotional breakthrough. And on the other side of it, this, this unbelievable confidence. That's what I think. I'm, I'm providing so that people can seize opportunity.
- [12:52]
Jack
But before we get into that, on a more serious note, we spend a bunch of time here on this podcast talking about how you can grow your wealth. But a question that is just crucial is what happens when you're not around to protect it? What happens to your family, your home, your future? Well, you shouldn't wait for the unexpected because with today's sponsor, Select Quote, you can secure your family's financial future no matter what tomorrow brings. Selectquote is one of America's leading insurance brokers with nearly 40 years of experience helping over 2 million customers find over $700 billion in coverage since 1985. Other life insurance brokers offer you impersonal one size fits all policies that may cost you more and cover you less, while Select Quotes licensed insurance agents for you to tailor a life insurance policy for your individual needs in as little as 15 minutes. And did you know that the more life insurance coverage you need, the more likely you are to actually overpay for it? Well, with Select Quote you can save up to 50% compared to other companies whether you need a $500,000 policy or a $50 million policy. And if you're in good health, they work with carriers that can get you same day coverage for up to $5 million with no medical exam required. So head to selectquote.com and a licensed insurance agent will call you right away with the right policy for your life and your budget. Select quote they shop, you save, get the right insurance for you for less@SelectQuote.comich go to SelectQuote.comich today to get started once again. That is SelectQuote.comich with the link down below in the description. Thank you to Select Quote for sponsoring this episode. And back to the podcast. And how can you help somebody that is maybe suffering and you observe them suffering, but they can't they don't see the fact that they're suffering in their life. Like, how do you help someone that either doesn't want to be helped or just doesn't know that they need help, but it's so painfully obvious to you?
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Ken Coleman
That's a very insightful question. It's one of the best questions I've been asked in a long time. I'm actually glad you asked it. Thanks. Because the answer is in your question. You help them see their pain in order to get out. You see them, you go, how do I help them see their pain? Show it to them. Get them to a place where they are really hurting. You see what I'm saying? And helping them see, oh, this is the source of my pain. It's the same thing as a person who's got a knee injury going to the doctor. All you know is, your knee hurts, right? And so what does the doctor do? Ask lots of questions. Moves the knee, maybe prods, touches it, all this kind of stuff. And what is the doctor trying to do there?
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Graham
Just find the source of the pain.
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Ken Coleman
Get right to the source. Oh, it's here. Maybe it's in your mcl. Right. Okay, now let's. Now let's go scan the mcl and let's see where we're at. If it's strained, you're going to be okay. If it's torn, we're going to do surgery. And so out comes all these solutions. So how you help someone see something that they don't see is taking them deeper to the source of the pain. Because they're in a place of confusion. So they present, like, really confused. Got all this kind of going on. Right. Same thing we do on the Ramsey show on money. Somebody calls in and they're going, I got 150,000 in debt, and I'm feeling okay. We already know we got to get to what is causing all of this stuff that is making you make decisions to put yourself behind the eight ball. We got to get there because behavior change doesn't happen until we see clearly. And so the answer to your question is you got to take them deeper into the source of the pain. Then they go, oh, okay, now I can see clearly. I'm feeling this way. I'm acting this way because of this. It's like therapy. You know, anytime you go to a good therapist, they're trying to take you deeper, deeper, deeper, deeper, so you can see why you're in pain. Does that make sense?
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Graham
What are some of the traits that you notice with people who you don't think are going to succeed where they call in and you could just tell the conviction's not there. Are there any similarities?
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Ken Coleman
Yes, it's the opposite to that confidence. They are so consumed with self doubt or so consumed with fear or so consumed with pride. I think it's those three things and sometimes they all work together. Quick definition. Fear is I'm worried or anxious that something bad is going to happen if I move forward, if I take a step forward, a positive step. Doubt is I don't believe something good's going to happen if I take this step. And then pride is I care more about what other people think or say about me than what I believe that I should do. Right. We get this gut feeling, I should do this, I should do this, I should do this. And it's quickly overridden by what's my mom going to say, what's my dad going to say, what's my spouse going to say? What are my friends going to say? That's a real struggle. So fear, doubt and pride are those three commonalities that I see and when I'm coaching someone and I can feel it and I can hear it, that they're not going to get beyond those things. I absolutely leave that call going. They're not going to do anything. Not today.
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Graham
Okay. Now right after this, you mentioned that you have to prepare yourself for people who are calling in and really worried about the election results and that they're having to wrap their mind around result that they didn't want. What are your predictions for a Trump economy going forward?
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Ken Coleman
It's interesting. I think you're going to see pockets of the economy that will jumpstart. But I'm friends with a lot of wealthy guys that are investors and that are in companies. And I think one of the things I'm hearing from them, they believe that you're going to see a spike in investment dollars as it relates to. You're going to see some companies that maybe weren't ready to sell. Now they're going to sell. You know, you're going to see more investment, big business investment in the economy. People kind of going, all right, I feel better. I'm going to, you know, start buying some things that maybe I was on the sideline for that kind of thing. I think you'll see that. But there's a part of me, Graham and Jack, that this is. You asked me for a prediction, so, yeah, I don't mind being wrong.
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Graham
Yeah, that's fine.
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Ken Coleman
There's a part of me that wonders if we don't see a dip in the economy at first. I wouldn't be surprised because we've been talking about this soft landing this whole time and it appears as though where we've seen inflation right now has cooled, unemployment's at 4.1%. That's again historically really, really low. So it appears as though we've had a soft landing. But I still believe that commercial real estate's gonna blow up in a bad way. I just think everybody that's smart in that space that I'm watching, they're saying that crisis is coming, has nothing to do with who's in the White House. So there might be some interesting things. Housing is still a mess and needs to be figured out in the sense of affordability. So you might see some negative things in the economy and I think you might see some positive things. My guess is he will usher in a lot of confidence, but there might be a dip before it comes back out. This episode is brought to you by Google Gemini.
- [19:49]
Jack
With the Gemini app, you can talk.
- [19:50]
Ken Coleman
Live and have a real time conversation.
- [19:52]
Jack
With an AI assistant.
- [19:54]
Ken Coleman
It's great for all kinds of things, like if you want to practice for.
- [19:56]
Jack
An upcoming interview, ask for advice on.
- [19:58]
Ken Coleman
Things to do in a new city, or brainstorm creative ideas.
- [20:02]
Jack
And by the way, this script was actually read by Gemini.
- [20:05]
Ken Coleman
Download the Gemini app for iOS and Android today. Must be 18 + to use Gemini live.
- [20:11]
Graham
Sure, I think with that too. There's been a lot of talk about Social Security and raising the retirement age and I found it very interesting. I really enjoyed your take on Ben Shapiro's thoughts on not retiring and why it's a bad idea. And you mentioned that one in five retirees ends up getting depressed.
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Ken Coleman
Yeah.
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Graham
What are your thoughts on not retiring?
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Ken Coleman
Yeah, I think it's overrated. I think it's bad for your health physically and mentally. That's the data. It's not my opinion. What I would say is I'm okay with you downshifting. So if retirement means I'm gonna, I'm gonna step away from this full time career that I've been doing for a long time and I'm going to change my lifestyle, but I'm going to stay active in some type of volunteerism. Excuse me, guys. This is what happens when you smoke cigars till three in the morning. If it means that I'm now contributing to society in a different way. But it still looks like work. Not from the have to, but the want to, which is what I preach. So I'm getting up and I'M using my talent, what I do best, to do something that I enjoy, that's passion, to then produce a result that I care deeply about. That's a sense of mission. So use what I do best to do what I enjoy, to produce a result that matters to me. Let's just shift. Let's shift our time and our resources to that sentence in a different season of life. And that's the point I was making where I took a little bit of an issue with what he said. It's like, that's not the human dream to just get to a stage in your life. My gosh, the 70s, you've worked your butt off, you've done a great job. You've got a lot of freedom. You know, I've read from some really interesting people that the 70s could be your best decade if health is okay. And so I think it's the equivalent of who's the first guy to scale Mount Everest? My brain is tired this morning, but he gets to the top of Mount Everest, first person ever. He's with his Sherpa climbing partner. It's recorded. His Sherpa partner told the media later that they put a few momentos down. Can you imagine? First people ever, top of the world, and they're looking around and he goes, points to another mountain range, looks at his Sherpa climbing partner. He goes, that's the one we do next. That's what I think retirement should be. Slow down. If you want to downshift, whatever, great. But this idea of what work really is, which I define work is a positive contribution to your zip code. It's that simple.
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Graham
Yeah.
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Jack
So what I find interesting is that Social Security retirement is one of the most controversial issues in terms of, like, the older generation, like, younger generation is more social issues. As you get older, it's just Social Security and retirement. When Ben made the claim that you should not retire, he got lit up. Honestly, unlike anything I've ever seen Ben get lit up before. And he said some controversial things. What I'm curious is, can you steel man the argument where maybe retirement is good? When I envision my future, if I'm trying to put myself in, in the shoes of somebody who, who doesn't want to retire that or who, who does want to retire, I like to think, okay, well, I can play golf, I can go and I. I can play pickleball. I can live on a, a farm with my family and just kind of hang out, go see my friends and practice my hobbies. And that sounds amazing from the years of 65 or 70 to the rest of my life. Do you think that that could still be a fulfilling life? Is there any merit to retirement? If you're steel manning the argument, I.
- [23:48]
Ken Coleman
Think that that can be a nice life. I don't think it's meaningful. I really would take issue with anybody on that. And I love Ben. I think that what he was missing here, and I think what we're missing is we were made to work. I just believe that. I just believe it. It goes back to the very core of our spirit. Whether you're a person of faith or spiritual, an atheist, it doesn't matter, because I don't think you can deny this. You don't have to teach a human to lay in bed at night or be behind the wheel of a car or in a shower or walking along, and your mind goes to, what am I supposed to do with my life? Every human that's ever been on the planet and that will come on this planet will one day wonder that question. That's fascinating to me. So to me, that speaks to meaning. Now, I derive great meaning from work, and I think that work is not all that we are, but it is something that we are wired to do. If I say work just means contribute my talent to create a positive result that could be, as Martin Luther King Jr. So famously said to middle school students, if it falls your lot to be a street sweeper, sweep streets so that all the hosts of heaven look down and say, and I'm paraphrasing, there is the Michelangelo of street sweepers. You know, he was getting to something there, right? That there is good that can be done and should be done and must be done. And I think if you look at that way, it goes. Okay, I love the way you set the question up, but, like, do all the things. I love pickleball, by the way, I'll just answer it very personally. My goal in my 70s and 80s is to wake up and start off with some exercise in the gym. I'm very religious about that. And then I see myself sitting with a bunch of old cranky dudes or maybe couples with my wife, because we love spending time together and other couples and there's a nice breakfast or something along those lines. And we're laughing, talking, talking about kids, grandkids, whatever, socializing. And then there's some type of pickleball. I'm obsessed with pickleball. Obsessed. I'll play. I will play tonight for three hours. If you were in town, I would welcome you with a great group of guys anytime you're in Wednesday night.
- [26:07]
Jack
I'll bring my power shoes next time.
- [26:10]
Ken Coleman
You're welcome. It's a great group, about 30 of us. We play for three hours. Oh my gosh, seven to ten.
- [26:14]
Jack
Three hours.
- [26:15]
Ken Coleman
Oh man, I'm exhausted. But I'm so fulfilled because it's competition and community.
- [26:20]
Jack
If you guys play pickleball, give the video a like pop them on.
- [26:24]
Graham
Subscribe.
- [26:25]
Ken Coleman
Yes please.
- [26:25]
Jack
In fact, if you're in Las Vegas and you're a good pickleball player, you.
- [26:28]
Ken Coleman
Want to play a dm.
- [26:30]
Jack
Okay, I want to play pickleball.
- [26:31]
Ken Coleman
And next time I'm in Vegas, I'm texting you and if you got time, I'm in.
- [26:36]
Jack
Okay, deal.
- [26:37]
Ken Coleman
I'm in love with the game.
- [26:39]
Jack
Is so uninterested in pickleball. He hates, he hates.
- [26:41]
Graham
He talks about it all the time.
- [26:42]
Jack
Any sport to any sort of athletic.
- [26:44]
Ken Coleman
We apologize to all the listeners and viewers who are sick of the pickleball evangelist.
- [26:48]
Jack
Just, just try it.
- [26:48]
Ken Coleman
You'll right, just try it. Yeah. And then after that or whatever that day looks like it's going to have the working out, the community and food eating together. There will be the hobby, that physical kind of sports hobby. But then I will have to do something and maybe that looks like me mentoring a bunch of 20 year old dudes three days a week. I consider that work. So when I say that it's like you can downshift. And I'm not saying you got to work a 40 hour week, but this idea of retiring, if you actually look up the word, it's to retreat. I don't want to retreat in my old age. I don't want to treat.
- [27:28]
Graham
So speaking of work like that, are we in a white collar recession? I saw your video on that. I thought it was very interesting.
- [27:34]
Ken Coleman
According to the data, yes. Well, what's happened is we came out of the great resignation. Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. One of the perks about having four kids that you know about is actually getting a direct line to the big man up north. And this year he wants you to know the best gift that you can give someone is the gift of Mint Mobile's unlimited wireless for $15 a month. Now you don't even need to wrap it. Give it a try@mintmobile.com switch. $45 upfront payment required. Equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only. Taxes and fees, extra Speed slower above 45 gigabytes on unlimited. CementMobile.com for details. Okay, I have to tell you, I was just looking on ebay, where I go for all kinds of things I love. And there it was, that hologram trading card. One of the rarest. The last one I needed for my set.
- [28:19]
Jack
Shiny like the designer handbag of my dreams.
- [28:22]
Ken Coleman
One of a kind. Ebay had it. And now everyone's asking, ooh, where'd you get your windshield wipers? Ebay has all the parts that fit my car.
- [28:30]
Jack
No more annoying, just beautiful.
- [28:35]
Ken Coleman
Whatever you love, find it on eBay. EBay, things people love, Right? Which is where we saw, for about two and a half, three years, record numbers of people leaving their jobs. It was over 4 million a month. It was absurd. It's. It's when you saw out of the pandemic, really, out of 2020, 20, 21. We just saw this. Okay. Everybody's like, okay, I don't think the world's coming to an end. Not sure where we're working or how we're working. But companies began to reinvest. We saw a lot of. They saw the government put a lot of money into the marketplace. And so companies started hiring. And it was like, all right, I'm going to pay you more to come over here. And that created the musical chairs. And so that took up salaries and hourly wages. And so it was the great resignation. Because what it really was was the great hiring. It was like companies were competing big time for talent. And so everybody was cashing in. People were leaving for 15 to 20% hikes. Who's an unbelievable economic development. Well, so that slows down. And so out of that comes this white collar recession. So leading into this election. So if you go back two years, companies begin to go, all right, we're not sure where this is going. The economy was beginning to show some ugly signs. Is Biden going to get reelected? You know, and you start. And so what companies do is they start going, all right, we're going to kind of. Let's go slow down. We're going to slow down, and we're not going to invest in more talent. So what they're doing is they're mitigating risk. And that's what happened. Because when you say white collar recession, I should define it. These are, these are professional roles, and these are six figure, everything from low to mid, six figure. And I saw this in my own personal life with a couple of guys that left during COVID They were laid off from large biotech companies and were out of work for two years. And here's why. They were making in the 800, $900,000 a year. Well, for A company, they're going to go, that's. We're taking on a lot of, you know, they look at payroll, and that's what big public companies do. They start to look at payroll and they go, okay, we're going to reduce expenses. Kind of the advice we'd give people at Ramsey when you're, when your money life is tight. All right, let's reduce expenses. Let's see if we can get more income. So that's what's been happening. That's going to be interesting to see if that loosens up, because we saw even the latest job numbers that hiring is still really slow right now. So that's going to be a key to watch in the first two quarters of the Trump administration. Will there be professional, let's call it, will there be corporate confidence? We always talk about consumer confidence. Will there be corporate confidence? Where companies start to go, all right, we're going to start hiring. That's a risk, that's an investment, but we're willing to make it. So that's why we are where we are. I think there's been a wait and see as a result of this weird economy that we've been in the last couple years. Yeah.
- [31:20]
Graham
I do worry, though, that with some of that economy that if companies get used to being able to get the same amount of work done with less people.
- [31:27]
Ken Coleman
Yeah.
- [31:27]
Graham
As they're hiring less, but all of a sudden now they get this injection of money.
- [31:31]
Ken Coleman
Yeah.
- [31:31]
Graham
If tax rates go down, let's say they have an extra 10% on the books. Are they actually going to hire people with that? Or they can say, well, now we have an extra 10% on the books, let's boost the stock price. Well, you know, pay out our CEOs a little bit more. I tend to believe that's more likely to happen than, oh, we have 10 million, let's hire more people.
- [31:48]
Ken Coleman
Again, I think it's an interesting point. I don't disagree with you, but I would offer this. Companies love to expand.
- [31:58]
Jack
Yeah.
- [31:59]
Ken Coleman
Companies love to grow. And CEOs can't help themselves because that's what their performance is measured on. So I get the bonus piece. But keep in mind, we got boards and stockholders. And so if you aren't growing, you are dying is not just a motivational thing that's thrown out too much. It's actually a business maxim.
- [32:24]
Jack
It's hyper competitive.
- [32:25]
Ken Coleman
Hyper. So I see what you're saying. If that were to happen, Graham, I think that would be minimal and situational. But I think at some point, companies Go, we gotta grow. And when they gotta grow, they gotta hire talent. Yeah.
- [32:38]
Graham
And what about for the people who get fired? How are they able to turn that around to a really good thing?
- [32:43]
Ken Coleman
First thing, you gotta mourn. The data, psychology data says that losing your job, whether you're laid off or fired, so fired is a little bit more egregious. Laid off, I'm a part of a big cut or whatever. Either way, losing your job is the equivalent of losing a loved one emotionally. It's pretty stark. So let's start there. So we need to grieve. So mourn this. If that's with a therapist, fantastic. Highly recommend it. If it's just sitting in your feelings and honestly going, man, I'm going home today and I'm just going to mourn. I'm going to put my sweatpants on, I'm going to eat a lot of ice cream, watch a lot of Netflix, whatever morning looks like, let's mourn it. Let's own that. This sucks. Second, this is in a couple days. You know, I would surround myself with community. I would make sure that I'm around friends and loved ones that are lifters, not friends and loved ones who are victims. Back to the start of our conversation. Very important after losing a job that you're spending time with people that are naturally people who lift you. They're not going to let you wallow now. They're going to feel for you, but they're going to be injecting you with, hey, Ken, it's okay. You're so talented. You're going to have a ton of opportunities, man. This isn't going to hold you. You need those people in your life, not the aunt and uncle, like, well, welcome to the Roya. And they just keep you down. Third, I would make sure you go do something for somebody whose life is way worse than yours. That's what I would do. Go serve. Go help find yourself in a situation where you go, man, my life sucks right now, but, man, it could be a whole lot worse. And. And I'm going to help somebody who has it way worse than me. That begins to lift you four, I would begin to tell the whole world, hey, this is what happened to me. I need help, I need connections. I need some opportunities. I'm willing to look and listen to anything. Those would be the four things from a practical thing to turn a loss like that, losing your job into something that you rebound from. Those are the practical things that will allow you to rebound. Because on the other side of those four things, you're going to get another opportunity. You step in and you go, okay, I realize that I rose from the ashes here. I'm going to now be able to reflect. That would be the fifth thing. After you kind of get reset into another job. Reflect on it. Is there something that I can learn from this? Could I have seen this layoff coming? What? What can I learn from getting fired? Even if I say I did nothing wrong, could I have seen that? This is an unhealthy boss and this was a not so good situation, and my own fear of leaving and going to something else kept me in a really toxic situation. The idea is we want to walk away from this and learn from it, and we're going to be better from it. So we look back on it. We go, I can look back on that point in my life and I can rub my hand over the scar. I've got a scar right here where I made a bonehead mistake, and I can rub on that right now and it takes me back and remember, but I can't feel it because I've healed from it. I think that's the key.
- [35:59]
Graham
But you know what? Before we go into that, let me ask you a question. How often do you have the time just to focus on yourself? Think about it. Between work, family, and everything else, it's easy to put your goals on the back burner. And that's why I think it's important to talk about today's sponsor, Strawberry Me. Strawberry Me is a platform that makes personal coaching simple and accessible. No matter where you are on your journey, you'll have a certified coach in your corner. Not someone to tell you what to do, but will help you figure out what to do and then how to get there. Coaching offers something that no book, podcast, or conversation with a friend can, and that's a professional partner who's 100% focused on you.
- [36:33]
Jack
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- [36:53]
Graham
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- [37:26]
Jack
What was a pivotal moment in your own life? Because I noticed this, like, this optimistic undertone to everything that you say, whether it's like, surround yourself, yourself with the right people. If you get laid off, you need to mourn this and that. What would you say is a time where you felt like you had risen from the ashes or had some sort of negative thing and, like, practice some sort of thing to get through to it that's contributed to this philosophy.
- [37:48]
Ken Coleman
It was early on in this journey to broadcasting. I was 32, 33, really old, to try to get into broadcasting. I had three little kids, and I had found a season of life where I had some gumption. And I said, I'm going to try some things. So I went downtown Atlanta. I was living Atlanta suburbs. I go down and I. I walk in one day to this huge office building, and I go up to this receptionist, young girl in her 20s. And I said, is. And I'll make this name up, is Don so and so in today. And she looked at me, she goes, yeah, he is. Do you have an appointment? I go, no, but we have some mutual friends. And I just. If he's got two minutes, you can put me on a clock. Tell him I just want to say hi to him for two minutes. And it's so kind of befuddled her that I talked my way in. And she goes, okay. So next thing I know, this guy pops into the lobby and he goes. He's looking at me literally like that. And I go, hey, Ken Coleman. I know this person, this person, this one. Hey, I want to tell you something. I own my own business. I don't want you to pay me anything. I'm not even looking for a job. First thing out of my mouth, and he's kind of looking at me, and I go, I'm wondering if there's something that I can do a few days a week for a couple hours at a time to just volunteer because I just want to learn this business, and that's all I want. I can give you my resume references. We have these mutual friends. He looked at me, he was like, are you serious? And I go, yeah. He goes, yeah, man, sure. He's like, give me your email. I'll email you A time we can come meet and we'll talk through it. So fast forward. I do that and I end up going in three days a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, the ESPN radio affiliate. That's what this was. I love sports. And I start volunteering. I'm answering screening calls, I'm doing YouTube research for the guys that are on the air. I'm just in the building, you know, and it led to me getting on the air. They were sending me to Falcons training camp, to the SEC basketball championship here in Nashville. And I was doing live call ins and these guys, they just. They just began to like me. And they knew that I was just trying to learn and get into the game and I didn't need anything from them. And so, like, you're pretty good on the air. And so they put me on. So one day I get back in. It was my day to be in. I think it was a Wednesday. And this guy, this program director is the guy that I met in the lobby. And he calls me in his office and he had this weird look on his face. And he just looked at me and goes, hey, you gotta stop. And there's no tension. Nothing's happened. I go, what do you mean? He goes, you gotta stop. You're not gonna be on the air anymore. I go, oh, okay. I said, hey, by the way, I am sorry your host put me on there. They just asked me if I'd do it. I said. And he goes, no, no, I know you've not done anything wrong. I've already talked to them. They shouldn't have done that. We have a company policy, no non employees are allowed to be on the air. Which, again, made total sense to me. But it was the way in which he talked to me. And he said this. He goes, I don't know why you keep coming in. He goes, you've been great. You're a good guy. You got a lot going for you. I don't know why you're not focused on your business. You don't have the talent to make it in a number eight market. And it just devastated me. So I walk out and I'm spinning, emotionally spinning. Why is he doing this? Okay, I get the policy, but why did he say that? Is he right? Am I delusional? Am I wasting my time three days a week coming here? What am I doing? I'm 33, I don't have a broadcasting degree. I don't have any experience. What am I doing? And I begin to just. Just really go inward. Like, dude, you're delusional. Wake up, smell the coffee and go. Be a good husband and a dad and grow your business and go another direction. This is a fool's errand. This is where I'm at. So I go home and I really didn't want my wife to see it. I was so embarrassed. I was ashamed. And so it was time to cut the grass. And I remember going to my garage, get my lawnmower out and I went out and I just zoned out, back and forth, just self pity. And about 10 minutes in the thought hit me. Do you think that you have the talent? Do you really think you have it? Are you willing to see if he's right? Are you willing to see is he right or is he wrong? Are you willing to figure it out? And for whatever reason, I summoned a little bit of courage there and I was like, okay. And came up with a few ideas and I don't want to go into it for sake of too long an answer, but I came up with a couple ideas on the rest of that lawn mowing session that ended up turning into my first book and pretty successful podcast that then got me on the air in north Atlanta that led to some amazing things and Dave Ramsey eventually calling me. So the reason I am the way I am is moments like that where I had to choose right. Do I believe in me and am I willing to prove it? And it's not that I was super positive and that I was this, because I wasn't. I was miserable, I was insecure, all these things. But I did choose in that moment to prove it. So I was either going to prove that he was right, that I didn't have the talent, or I was going to prove that I was right. And I was willing to deal with that and get to that answer so that when I'm an old man, I don't live with regret.
- [43:03]
Graham
Did you ever see that guy again?
- [43:05]
Ken Coleman
Never have.
- [43:06]
Graham
Have you been curious to reach out to him?
- [43:08]
Ken Coleman
Yeah. Okay. I'm going to be very vulnerable. There have been multiple times that I've wanted to call him and in my mind I've got it. That I would be classy, but I would say, hey, just want to let you know that what you said hurt me. You were wrong. And I'm calling to tell you that you're wrong, not out of spite, but that you don't ever crap on somebody else like that again. Because words matter and that's what I want to do. And I have resisted it. And the first time is when I found out that I was going to Be the first person to ever sit in Dave Ramsey's chair after 20 some years. And I was with Rachel Cruz and another one of our Ramsey personalities at the time and it was like a big deal. And I had radio experience. They were the money people. And so my job was just to get them in out of the break because they had no experience doing it and I could do it, but I was still. It was a big deal. And yeah, there's been multiple times three time bestselling author.
- [44:06]
Graham
But what's holding you back?
- [44:08]
Ken Coleman
I don't think that's right. I don't think it's necessary. I have gotten to a place through therapy and some maturity that nothing good comes from that phone call. And no matter how classy I play it out of my mind, I think it's an act of pride.
- [44:25]
Graham
Why not send an email that you same deal. I tend to think that sending that you could look at it too.
- [44:32]
Ken Coleman
What do you think it accomplishes?
- [44:33]
Jack
And I mean this from a utilitarian perspective.
- [44:35]
Ken Coleman
Yeah, I'd love to know.
- [44:36]
Jack
Yeah, I think it does make sense for him to get the perspective that, hey, I can actually be incorrect and I shouldn't just shoot someone down with, you know, a not super convicted argument to make them feel bad. But also I think that it depends on how you frame it. So, for example, if you call them and you're like, I was right. And if I was right, what does that mean?
- [44:54]
Ken Coleman
You were.
- [44:54]
Jack
It means you were wrong. Like, you know, there's a way that you can. There's. He loves that, he loves that. But it basically is just establishing a winner and a loser. It doesn't need to be that way. You could say, hey, look, after our, our phone call, you motivated me to actually go and try my own thing. And I did and it worked. So I wanted to thank you because think about it. You are where you are today because of that.
- [45:16]
Ken Coleman
So even though I'd be more willing to take that, even though it hurt.
- [45:20]
Jack
And it sucked and it created some wounds that turned into scars, eventually it ended up working in your favor by a lot. Who knows what would have happened if you stuck with that network.
- [45:29]
Ken Coleman
No one has any idea. I think that would help me with other wounds because I'm going to be really vulnerable here. Because this is actually refreshing that you're challenging me on this. Maybe the audience learned something. I'm real time in this, folks. These guys are challenging me. I deal with the voice. We all have these voices that we deal with and that these come from, you know, primal Wounds and things of that nature. Mine is I'm not good enough. Just being honest.
- [45:56]
Graham
Yeah.
- [45:57]
Ken Coleman
So that comes. And I don't want to, you know, get into this son of psychotherapy session, but it comes from real things that have happened to me in my life, and I. I am actively right now in therapy. I do it seasonally from time to time. And I just think this is very interesting timing. So I'm asking you guys, knowing what I just told you, do you think that would actually be healing for me to send it? I like your approach, Jack. Do you think that that would be a sense of healing? If I were to word it that way to go. I'm acknowledging that you hurt me deeply. And yet I also want to thank you and release that, because I don't think I've ever released it. I think it's a chip still on my shoulder.
- [46:40]
Jack
I think the solution or the answer to the feeling of not being good enough or some sort of imposter syndrome is humility.
- [46:47]
Ken Coleman
Yeah.
- [46:48]
Jack
Is understanding that, like, yeah, you are. You know, you deserve nothing. You know, it's just you have to accept the fact that you put yourself wherever you are. And I think that the humility will essentially solve that. You can thank him. And it's also kind of, in a sense, taking responsibility because you ended up making the decision to put you where you are today.
- [47:09]
Ken Coleman
Yeah.
- [47:10]
Jack
I don't know. That's.
- [47:11]
Graham
I think he gave you a great lesson, great experience that you're able to share with so many people.
- [47:15]
Ken Coleman
Yeah.
- [47:15]
Graham
And you owe that to him and him saying those really hurtful words. So I think, in a way, it's a blessing in disguise. Where back then.
- [47:23]
Ken Coleman
I agree with that.
- [47:24]
Graham
Like you so much because I would send the email or if you take it a step further, send the email and say, I'd also like to take you for a coffee or something like that, to take him out and show your appreciation in hindsight. And I bet through that experience, he'll change a lot, too.
- [47:39]
Ken Coleman
Interesting. Wow.
- [47:41]
Jack
This is a long time since that.
- [47:42]
Graham
Happened, so we could be a completely.
- [47:43]
Jack
Different person, you know.
- [47:44]
Graham
Sure.
- [47:45]
Ken Coleman
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I. But you understand, my concern is I don't want to be prideful. And. And you answered. That's the humility. I'm. I want to act in a humble way here, but.
- [47:55]
Graham
But imagine this. Imagine he shares his perspective years later, and it's not what you. What you. That's interesting where he said, I'm sorry I said those things. The reason why was because I got.
- [48:04]
Jack
I had a bad morning.
- [48:05]
Graham
Yeah.
- [48:05]
Jack
You know, like, isn't that true?
- [48:07]
Ken Coleman
It could be anything.
- [48:08]
Graham
So stupid of like.
- [48:09]
Ken Coleman
Yeah, yeah.
- [48:10]
Graham
Oh, you know, got in a fight with a spouse this morning. I was in a really bad mood. I, you know, as soon as you walked out, I regretted it, but I was too prideful to say anything. And you know something? You have no idea what's going on through his mind at that day.
- [48:24]
Ken Coleman
Yeah, that's well said.
- [48:26]
Graham
Or where pressure was coming from. From like someone else got jealous that you did a better job than them and he had to save this person who is giving him an earful and you weren't the employee. And there could have been so many dynamics that you just had no idea about that I bet now he would share. And if you do reach out to him, I'd love to hear about a follow up.
- [48:44]
Ken Coleman
I'm going to do it. I'm going to commit to it and I'm going to. Because I trust you guys on this. I'm going to send you, if you'll allow me. I want to send you the draft deal because we've talked about it and both of you are completely objective that you're perfect. I wouldn't want my wife to read it. She's got too much invested in me. So I will do that. I'm going to send you a draft within a week of this conversation. I'm trying to give myself a little time, but I need to act on it quickly. Actually, within 72 hours. Team's back there. Somebody hold me accountable. I'm going to send an email to both of you if you'll allow me.
- [49:20]
Jack
Absolutely.
- [49:21]
Ken Coleman
And I want your honest feedback and I'm going to send it.
- [49:24]
Graham
I'm honored.
- [49:25]
Ken Coleman
Boy. Wow. This is crazy. I was supposed to do this selfishly, I think, for that.
- [49:31]
Graham
That's so.
- [49:32]
Ken Coleman
But I hope our audience gets something from this because I think, I love that you challenged me on that and I'm learning real time now. It's interesting now. And I'm an evangelist for therapy because I'm literally doing weekly therapy right now and digging on this stuff at 50 years of age. Not because I'm in crisis. I'm not in an area of crisis right now in my life, but I'm seeking to be better. You know what I mean? Because there's a lot of responsibility and going through different seasons of my life. Right. And dealing with grief of my oldest son being in college. Right. And some of that stuff. And just being okay with that. Like, it's hard to see my boy go, I'm Proud of him. He's crushing it, you know? So all that to say, this is the example of spending time with. Now, this is a professional podcast. However, I'm grateful and blessed to be in the orb that I'm in, that I get to be on your show, have this conversation. And this is the whole point, you.
- [50:31]
Graham
Know, I actually did something similar with the guy who hired me when I was 18, when I was doing data entry, and he gave me an earful when I wanted to quit. I came in, like, a week later and told him that I wasn't happy doing this. It didn't feel right for me, and I wanted to quit. And he gave me an earful, and he told me the story that they were like, he mentored another guy. And this guy was, like, in his late 40s, early 50s at the time, and he, like, mentored another guy. And this guy said the same thing, that he wanted to quit, that it wasn't right. And the guy's like, you have to stick with it, because if you're not able to overcome this hurdle, you're gonna go sideways, get to another hur hurdle, not be able to overcome that, get to the other hurdle, and you're going to be moving sideways throughout your life. And it's really important when you get to a hurdle to overcome it. And so he talked me into staying into this job, and he said, by the way, at the end of that conversation, he's like, by the way, the other guy ended up quitting. Guess what? He ended up getting a divorce. He ended up coming back to me years later, trying to get his job back. We couldn't hire him back. I don't know where he is now, but I'm like, I don't want to be broke and get a divorce later. So I stayed there. And every time I go into quit, which was like, every three weeks, just to talk to him would give me that same sort of spiel. And I think it was after about two months, I finally, like, had enough. I wrote up a letter. I gave it to him. He tried to talk to me. I couldn't do it because I knew he could talk me back into it, But I sent him. I found him on LinkedIn. This is maybe like, two years ago, I found him on LinkedIn. I didn't tell him how much that impacted me about his whole speech and whatnot, but I did thank him for the opportunity. And just giving me that chance, like, changed my life of really figuring out what I didn't want in a job, which is like, a Desk job, data entry, fluorescent lights, back office, accounting. Like, I hated it, but if it were not for that experience, I wouldn't be here today. So I just thanked him for that, and he got back to me, and it was like, I see you on YouTube. I'm glad you're doing so well. That makes me really happy to hear. So maybe I tell him how much it affected me, but just sending him that thank you was really important.
- [52:26]
Ken Coleman
No, I think it's cool to find him years later, while you were talking. I want the audience to hear, I just got a little takeaway. Grit is earned, not summoned. And thankfully, we have people in our life that force us into places where we have to choose. And so it's back to your question. Are you positive? I'm not the most positive guy on the planet, but I do think I'm really gritty. And it's because I've had multiple opportunities to either, as your boss told you there, that guy told you there to either jump through it, go through the hurdle, go over the hurdle, go over the mountain, whatever. That's important stuff because on the other side of that, you start stacking grit. Do you know what I mean? You can't just summon grit. The only way to get grit is to earn it. In other words, choose to walk forward. You walk forward, the other guy went sideways and walked away. I think that's a profound story of one decision, and I love that.
- [53:20]
Jack
I like the idea of being forced into a position where you. Where you're. Where you have to choose.
- [53:26]
Ken Coleman
Yeah.
- [53:26]
Jack
That's actually exactly the same both you guys as when I was working in the restaurant, I was a busser. I really wanted to be a waiter. The waiters earned a lot more than the bussers. I took the waiting exam several times. Failed every single time. But at the same time, I thought that the management had something against me because they were passing other people, that I was clearly more qualified than to be waiters.
- [53:48]
Ken Coleman
Yeah.
- [53:48]
Jack
And then finally, after, you know, I guess being in despair because I was this, like, lowly bus or not making a good living, I was like, I feel like I should do so much more than this. I tried out E Commerce. I failed. I tried out trading. I failed. I tried out a different business. I failed. And then eventually I emailed Graham, and it worked. And it was because I was forced to make a decision because I was so dissatisfied with where I was in life. Whereas if maybe they had just promoted me to being a server, I would have gotten a little bit more complacent. I mean, I was a full time student at the same time as working a good amount of hours in the restaurant. So maybe I would have been okay, you know, I'll just go to the college, I'll do the normal route. But it forced me to make a decision and to finally continue trying things until one of the things worked out.
- [54:29]
Ken Coleman
I love that hard times force us to choose. You're going to do hard things? Are you going to do the easy thing? See, the easy thing is to retreat. That's easy. Walk away and we'll go over here and by the way, we can really talk ourselves into how smart that is. You can really spin that up. Well, I did it for this and this and, and at some point I think you just have to choose to do hard things. And that's where grit comes from, by the way. That's where opportunity lies. And I think that that's one of the things I'm fearful for, for my kids generation is we've screwed up. I'm talking about my, my generation in parenting because I grew up in the 80s and I do see a shift. I'm not trying to sound like a boomer and take us another direction, but I would say really quickly that we have removed hardship and the opportunity to step into fear. And that's a dangerous thing for a society. Hard things lead to great things.
- [55:28]
Graham
Why do you think it's going in that direction? Because there does seem to be this element that millennials and Gen Z are very anti work, anti difficulty. Why is that? Have you noticed anything with it?
- [55:38]
Ken Coleman
Yes, I think that two things, fear and finances. Quick breakdown. One, it's when I was growing up, if my parents were sitting here, they're in their 70s, they would tell you both that the type of commercials that were on tv, they weren't fear driven. It wasn't like, hey, you know, you could sit and watch a football game this weekend and you're going to hear a scad of commercials come at you and they start something like this. Are you experiencing tightness in your chest? And you might not be, but if they ask you, you start going, well, am I? You know, that's. Marketers have figured out like I literally put this on the, on the, on the back of marketers. They figured it out. They figured it out, scare the crap out of us. We buy stuff. You know what I mean? There weren't bike helmets when we were kids. It doesn't mean that parents of my generation, my parents were meaner. Parents shouldn't think about a bike helmet for heaven's sakes. My mom told me the other day when I was a baby, she held me in her arms in the front seat. Now, I'm not saying that car seats aren't necessary. I'm getting to a bigger point. Fear through marketing and then 24 hour news. Think about how the world has changed with news, right? Social media, it's all designed to freak us out and that's what gets our attention. And so that has just progressed from the news media to marketers. That's the fear of peace. So parents go, I'm afraid. And natural for your parent, you want to remove opportunities for your kids to be hurt. In some ways, that's the fear. The finances piece is, you know, look, man, if you just look at the, the wealth growth in, in America alone, and you look at parents and they're always trying to help their kids do better than they did. And then their parents did. And so you start to go, okay. And so what they're trying to do is want to get them the best grades, the best college. And so they start emailing the teacher. The fourth grade, you sent a C minus home with my kid. What did you do wrong? That's coming from a place of fear. You talk to a teacher in America today, they'll tell you the, the hovering parents are the number one reason why they're leaving the profession. Where does that come from? Gotta help them. Gotta help them. Gotta get. I gotta keep up with everybody else. Gotta get a good. Gotta make more money and all these things. And so what's happened is we've removed the very element that makes our kids successful, and that is failure, hardship. So the way I say it in a soundbite is American parents have stopped paying attention to doing things that make our kids good because we're so focused on what makes our kids feel good. So it's like, stop worrying about how, how good they feel. Start paying attention to how good they're doing. And the only way your kid's gonna do better is, is failing. I remember sitting with Malcolm Gladwell once years ago. I said, what's the one thing you tell parents? He said, get your kid in it. In a, in an extracurricular activity where they will only be measured by success or failure. It's like play an instrument in the band, play a sport, try out for the drama team where you may not get the lead role. And what he was getting at is the quicker we can get people to taste failure and digest failure, then the tougher, the more resilient they become. And so what I think we've done is we've just removed all of the challenge from life because of technology. We kind of can, you know.
- [59:14]
Graham
Yeah. So what do you do with the people who just are lazy and they don't want to help themselves?
- [59:19]
Ken Coleman
Yeah.
- [59:19]
Graham
And they're there.
- [59:21]
Ken Coleman
I love this question.
- [59:22]
Graham
Yeah.
- [59:24]
Ken Coleman
If you are a person right now that has a person in your life that you just thought of when Graham threw that out, I want to challenge you. They are not lazy, they're lost. Lazy is a symptom. The source of the laziness is they're lost. Let me put it another way. The person that presents is lazy. The young man, maybe your husband. Ladies, I've gotten this call before. They're not lazy, they're lost. In other words, if you look at the science behind of why we procrastinate, a large portion of procrastination is depression. This episode is brought to you by global X. Since 2008, GlobalX ETFs has been committed to empowering investors with unexplored intelligence solutions. Global X specializes in exchange traded funds that offer exposure to the artificial intelligence ecosystem, including themes like data centers, robotics, semiconductors and cloud computing. To learn more about Global X's entire suite of ETFs from covered calls, fixed income, emerging markets and more, visit globalxetf's.com and I can't think of a more debilitating emotional state than feeling lost. I remember as a kid going to a department store with my mom and dad once. One of my earliest memories. And you know those circular things where clothes are all around the rack and picture being a little guy, you know, and I remember, oh, this is fun. And I jumped in the little clothes rack like, oh, I'm hiding from my dad, you know, and thought, this is kind of fun. And then I was like, oh, he's not looking for me, I better pop out. I popped out. My dad's nowhere to be seen. Now when you're five or six and you can't even see over the clothes rack and you're just staring, I can imagine the fear and panic that came over me and I began to cry and yell for my dad's name. Okay, I'm trying to take us to that emotion because that's a very real emotion for let's take a young man or a married man, it's got a family. And all of a sudden he realizes, I don't know where I'm supposed to go, I don't love my job or I've just been laid off and I feel like that little kid who's just staring at all these clothes racks. And while I'm looking for my parent, that person is looking for clear direction in their life. Okay. When you are confronted with that, you just immediately feel helpless. It's the equivalent of being in a car and you're driving along and a thunderstorm comes up and the rain comes down so hard you can't see past the hood of the car. What do you do? You immediately stop, pull over the side of the road. It's like, I can't see past the hood of the car. This is scary. This is dangerous. Stop. And it is a very real emotion. Okay? So if you take that and you realize that day in and day out, you have no clarity for the direction of your life or a clarity of how to solve a problem in your life. You will naturally press the emergency brake. And then when you're confronted with no way out, you panic. And then after prolonged panic, guess what happens? Helplessness. I'm stuck. I no longer in panic because my body is adjusted to the original fear. Now I'm just in prison. And I think that's what's going on emotionally is they appear lazy. Well, of course they look lazy. They have no gumption. They have no direction. And so what do they do? They just stay put. And I think it's a depressive state. So the answer then is clarity. You got to get to that person, and you've got to get them where they cannot take themselves. And that is they almost need to see a mirror and they need to see. And it's my methodology. I'd start with, hey, you're really talented. Your whole life, everybody said this about you, and we've seen it, and you have something to offer. You're really, really talented. And, boy, you light up when you do this. It's passion and others. And what problems do you want to solve? Like, what would you, you know, and you just become that. That almost coach that goes, hey, you got this. Get back in the game. I believe you can make the play, and that's all you can do as a friend or loved one. Now, in a coach situation, I mean, we're going to do some serious heart surgery, and I'm going to dive in and we're going to go, okay. Once you seek clarity, then confidence takes care of itself. Clarity leads to confidence. Confidence leads to courage. Every time when you see a person step into a fiery car. We've all seen a media report on someone who saved a stranger. And the person says to him, graham, what were you thinking? And Graham goes, well, I really wasn't thinking. I just acted. Exactly what happened? You come up on a scene of a fiery car crash. You're the first one. Instant radical clarity. Someone's gonna die if we don't get them out immediately. Confidence follows. I think I can pull them out. And before you know it, you're in the car pulling them out. Bam, bam, bam. Clarity leads to confidence. Confidence leads to courage. You cannot summon courage in your life to do hard things. Absence of clarity. So we always want to retreat to clarity. The most confused person is a depressed person, is a lazy person. So we want to get unlost. And the way we get unlost is clarity. The minute that lady heard me in that department store. Hey, buddy, what's wrong? Where's my dad? Okay, I got you. She takes me by the hand. She takes me to her little register area. She pulls out her phone, which is an intercom with the parents of little Kenny Coleman. Please come over the men's section. He's okay. He's here. Clarity. Confidence. Mom and dad are on the way, right? And I just. That's what I think has to happen. It is an emotional situation that is absolutely creating paralyzed state. And so to get unparalyzed, we gotta get clear.
- [65:20]
Graham
Although really quick, before we go into that. For those that are unaware, I got a coffee company. It's called Bankroll Coffee. And our goal is to bring you the highest quality coffee at the most affordable price. And when we were first starting out, I had to look for the best e commerce platform to use. And that, of course, is where I found today's sponsor, Shopify. Shopify is home to the number one checkout on the planet, with way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going.
- [65:42]
Jack
For example, Shopify is a service called shop pay, which lets customers save their email address, credit card, shipping, and billing information, which boosts conversions up to 50%.
- [65:52]
Graham
And if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling, whether that be on the web, in a store, in their feed, or anywhere in between. All in all, nobody's selling better than Shopify. So if you want to use the same checkout that bankroll copy uses, sign up for a $1 a month trial period at shopify.comich all lowercase again, that's shopify.comich shopify.comich with the link down below in the description. Thank you again to Shopify for sponsoring this episode. And now let's get Back to the podcast.
- [66:25]
Jack
How would you recommend people try to find more meaning and purpose in their job? If it's a W2 job, if you're self employed, if you're running a business. I'll admit, sometimes I feel like my job doesn't have as much purpose as I would like it to. And that may sound weird to some people, I don't know, because I like to think that I have some form of influence or I provide video that has some sort of positive influence on people. When I do find meaning, it's when. When people. Like for example, last night, actually, we were at this watch party and someone came up to Graham and I and they're like, hey, I saw the podcast you did with Jordan Peterson that actually I watched it with my girlfriend and it solved a lot of our relational issues. And I was like, okay, wow. And when I hear stuff like that, it makes me feel more purpose, more meaning. It drives me to continue working harder. But maybe for other jobs where it's a little bit more difficult to find that, how would you recommend they go about that?
- [67:15]
Ken Coleman
Love the question first. Gratitude. So start with, what am I grateful for that this job provides me? Right. So we can start with income provision takes care of me. So this is what it does for me. Now it's a W2 job, not where I want to be, but I start with gratitude for what it's doing for me now. Then we begin to say, what is this job doing for me later? In other words, it's given me that stability that I just said I'm grateful for. And so it's positioning me. So we begin to. To really re. Imagine how we see this current job. That's not the rung of the ladder we want to be on, but it allows me the opportunity to cry, to climb the next several rungs. And so we start there. That's going to really shift things like, okay, great. I probably would have been very grateful six months ago for this gig or six years ago. Okay, I'm. I'm grateful because this is giving me a platform for a stability and then opportunity going forward that changes our mindset. But then we get right back to what you were talking about. I think you have to sit there and you go, how is my work helping a human today? I think it's that simple. That question now, it doesn't mean that it's going to be as rewarding as that person saying that to you last night. That's one of the awesome benefits we get from the work we do is people say things that are incorrect. Like, you changed my life. No, we didn't. You changed your life. I had a little coaching moment. Thank you. And that's really rewarding. Okay. But for those of you that are in W2 jobs where you're not getting that feedback from a real person who is so overwhelmed and that was such a beautiful testimony to what you do. But what you've got to do is go, okay, if I were going to talk to people today who benefit from my work, what would they say on a base level that I did for them today? So if I'm a programmer and I'm programming a. I'm programming code for an app that does this for people. Remind yourself of that on a daily basis. Maybe type it up, maybe put it on your desk, you know, have it on your phone you can look at every once in a while, reflect on. There are humans on the other end of this work that I will not get to hear from. But I know that what this is doing is making their life better in this way, this way and this way. And that's really important to remind yourself of your why when you aren't getting that person to person accolade from that end user. That's what I would do. And I think that's really, really important. And it's a very important question because a lot of people sit there and they go, I did this today. I did this today. I did this today. And it's really great on my weekly report. And I felt very efficient. But. But does my work matter? That's a very, very scary place to be in. Because if you keep asking the question, does my work matter? It's only a matter of time before you start to go, do I matter?
- [70:04]
Graham
What do you think is one of the biggest problems facing young people today?
- [70:08]
Ken Coleman
Self awareness. There's this unbelievable faux self awareness that comes from social media in the form of likes and followers and how people reacted to this post and this post and this post. When what is a superpower for any individual, but certainly for young people because they're in the season of life where their brain is still developing, their frontal lobe is still developing. It's late 20s for men. I'm not sure it ever develops at 50, I'll be honest. But women a little few years earlier. So think about that. Your frontal lobe, go do your research, go Google that and understand how significant this statement is. Frontal lobe's still developing in your. In your 20s. You got all this pressure from the time you entered high school. Get good grades so you can get good SAT scores, get a good college acceptance, get a good degree, get a good job. It's a lot of pressure and they're navigating that. And I don't think as a society we do a good job in our education institutions and in our homes of truly focusing on the thing that matters most to a developing young person, and that is self awareness. What am I good at doing? It comes back to that, what am I good at? These become the tools that allow you to be successful. So we start there. Forget passion and mission. There's too much focus on passion in our world. That's an empty part of the equation because I love basketball, but I can never be a professional basketball player. All right, so what am I good at? Okay, there's a lot of confidence and good vibes for our self worth when we can reflect on and then actually do things on a regular basis where it comes easy for us and people go, nice work, good job, you're a natural. And so that's that self awareness play. And then what angers my heart, heart. What breaks my heart, what encourages my heart? These are key questions that begin to reveal how you might use that talent. And then as you begin to age and you try things and you experience things, you begin to go, I remember that result not mattering much to me, but man, I lit up when I delivered this result. And so that self awareness and then two other quick things, your story and your environment. It's really important for young people to look back on the house that they grew up in that shaped the way you see the world. They're like glasses, shape the way you see the world. Politically, spiritually, relationally, financially. Okay, physically. So you're stewing in this pot that you have no control over your environment. Growing up, let's say birth to 18, massive, massive impact on you, good and bad. Then look at your story, the wins and the losses. To keep it simple up to this point in your life, anybody who's listening, watching, and you just kind of feel, you know, all right, I want a young person. And you're going, I feel like I'm just. It's. You're not self aware. And it's back to what I just said about clarity. When we can be very self aware, then we are clear on, on where we've won in life, where we've lost, how that shaped us, how that is driving us forward. Self awareness is a superpower. It's where everything good comes from and it's where everything bad comes from. A lack of self awareness, a confused life where you're trying to medicate, you're seeking pleasure because there is no purpose. And then the flip side, when you are very, very self aware and you know who you are and who you want to be and why you want to be that man, that's, that's a wellspring. It's either quicksand or a wellspring. And so I think it's self awareness. And by the way, it's not just this generation of young people. I could have said that. That's like if I could wave a wand, Graham, and give something to every young person, it would be self awareness.
- [74:12]
Graham
I've always thought that things are maybe a little too easy for people and that's forced a lot of people into complacency where it's not bad enough. I agree, want to change, but it's not great either. So you're not exactly unhappy, but you're not really happy. And it's that weird middle ground where a lot of people get stuck.
- [74:28]
Ken Coleman
Yeah, the.
- [74:29]
Jack
I heard someone say it's like the poorest person today in America is still, you know, wealthier than the, the wealthiest man like a couple hundred or so years ago. It's like the fact that you even just have an iPhone. It's more powerful than, you know, anything any billionaire had access to in like the, you know, 1950s.
- [74:46]
Ken Coleman
It's a great point because, you know, complacency is a result of a lack of self awareness because you just kind of go, well, I can just kind of downshift and put it in neutral and choose an average life. And to your point, an average life in America is a fabulous life. And that's where complacency sets in really quickly.
- [75:04]
Jack
For the viewers that are trying to expand their knowledge, what books would you recommend for them?
- [75:08]
Ken Coleman
Classic book called Dig youg well before youe Thirsty, written by Harvey McKay. I read it when I was 18. It's still true today. It's all about understanding that when you need something most in life, it's too late to dig the well, invest in relationships and connecting in every area of your life. And that's where opportunity will always be for you when you need it.
- [75:26]
Jack
We're going to do this. This is something we've been doing recently. I love it. It's hypotheticals. So we're going to present you with a scenario. You tell us how you'd respond. This is called the Promised Position.
- [75:34]
Ken Coleman
Okay.
- [75:36]
Jack
You are up for a promotion that you've worked years for, but you learn the only way to secure it is to publicly support a policy you privately believe is harmful? Do you voice support to advance your career believing you can make positive changes from within or stay true to your principles and risk losing the opportunity?
- [75:53]
Ken Coleman
Stay true to your principles and risk losing the opportunity?
- [75:56]
Jack
Snap call. Easy.
- [75:58]
Ken Coleman
Very easy for me. Because on the other side of that, the high of getting the promotion, the influence and the money will wear off and you will not like yourself. And that means you will not like the place you're in and it will end up eating you alive and you'll leave anyway. So I choose the hard up front and they'll leave.
- [76:15]
Graham
Next one. The competitor's secret. You accidentally come across confidential information about a competitor's upcoming product that could allow your company to beat them to the market with a similar offering. Using this information could give you a competitive edge, but it wasn't obtained through legitimate means. Do you use the information to benefit your business or ignore it to maintain fair play?
- [76:35]
Ken Coleman
I don't think you could completely ignore it. It's kind of like getting that secret email that no one thought you were going to see. You can't expunge that, so I don't think you can ignore it. But I don't, I don't use that. I just want to win the right way.
- [76:48]
Jack
Interesting. So both of those questions were kind of abstractions of do the ends justify the means?
- [76:53]
Ken Coleman
Yeah.
- [76:53]
Jack
And for both of those answers, you.
- [76:54]
Ken Coleman
Said, no, they do not. They do not.
- [76:58]
Jack
Last question. The risky investment. Your company has an opportunity to invest in an innovative new technology with potentially huge rewards. But the technology is untested and could end in financial loss. If it succeeds, the company could thrive and gain an edge over competitors. If it fails, employees might face layoffs. Do you take the risk or stick with the safer, more proven investments?
- [77:19]
Ken Coleman
I'm going to take a mitigated risk on that one. I'm going to look at the numbers and make sure that this risk doesn't destroy the company. But if it requires that, we've got to make some belt tightening decisions. I think it's worth a shot there. But it is a mitigated risk, not a disastrous risk. But I take it, if you were.
- [77:35]
Jack
To say one, one position, one controversial opinion or anything that could hopefully, if there's a viewer out here, inspire them to, to wake up and do something, make something out of their life, to change their course entirely, what would it be?
- [77:48]
Ken Coleman
No one is sitting around today thinking about how they can help you if you want to help. This episode is brought to you by Atlassian. Atlassian makes the team collaboration software that powers enterprise businesses around the world, including over 80% of the Fortune 500. With Atlassian's AI powered software like Jira, Confluence and Loom, you'll have more time to do the work that matters. In fact, Atlassian customers experience a 25% reduction in project duration per year. Unleash the potential of your team@atlassian.com Atlassian this episode is brought to you by AWS. Amazon Q Business is the new generative AI assistant from AWS. Many tasks can make business slow, like wading through mud. Help. Luckily, there's a faster, easier, less messy choice. Amazon Q can securely understand your business data to help you streamline tasks like summarizing quarterly results or doing complex analyses in no time. Q Got this? Learn what Amazon Q Business can do for you@aws.com learnmore yourself and change your future. You have to take massive responsibility. There will be people who will help you along the way, but this idea of sitting around and just waiting for someone to tap you on the shoulder or that happenstance is going to help you. No one is here to help you. They're all worried about their own stuff. So start acting like that. You go after the future that you want. You make the difference. No one is going to help you until you become helpable by showing up and actually doing something for yourself.
- [79:24]
Jack
Thank you very much for coming on the show.
- [79:26]
Graham
I wish we could talk for an extra hour. This is fantastic.
- [79:28]
Jack
And also shout out Ramsey solutions.
- [79:31]
Ken Coleman
Amazing, aren't they?
- [79:32]
Jack
Every single time we come here.
- [79:33]
Ken Coleman
I mean they're pros.
- [79:34]
Jack
The coffees. Incredible. Her name is Melissa.
- [79:38]
Ken Coleman
Oh yes, at the front. Melissa. She's amazing. She's our. She is the first face and voice that people get to see when they come in. And she's amazing. She's the gift.
- [79:45]
Jack
She's incredible.
- [79:46]
Ken Coleman
Melissa Wilson.
- [79:47]
Jack
Love Melissa. Thank you guys so much for watching. We'll link all of Ken's stuff down below in the description. Thank you again, Ramsey. Until next time.
- [79:54]
Graham
Till next time.